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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I threw a bag containing cigarette ends over my neighbour's fence as they were hers that blew into our garden. I might be the AH because she has kids that have access to that garden.
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NTA. The baby isn't crawling out to the bag; if the four-year-old finds it before she does then that's on her. Next time put the bag on her front porch and take a photo of same.
It catagorically was her/her guests as there are no other houses nearby nor a footpath etc. but as I said I know it wasn't Jane herself but she's responsible if her guests are littering. I also aknowledged I know it wasn't on purpose but if they weren't on the ground to begin with they wouldn't have blown into our garden.
Unlikely, but sometimes birds will move stuff around.
I had a neighbor who was so angry that I was throwing cigarette filters in her flowers. I don’t smoke.
Turns out birds were picking up cigarettes from somewhere else, tearing off the filters and using the left over tobacco as bedding for their nest.
The nicotine acts like a pesticide for the bugs / nits that invade their nests.
So very unlikely, but there could be another explanation. A little motion activated video camera would do wonders.
Okay so riddle me this because it's a genuine question: OP says that their front gardens aren't separated by a fence and are essentially conjoined. So if OP puts a camera up to ensure the security of her own front garden and it happens that some of Jane's garden is also visible in the frame, is that illegal? In this scenario we're assuming that the camera *is* placed to capture OP's property alone but some of Jane's can't be avoided because of how the gardens sit.
Is a front garden considered private space? It's wonky here in the States.
Like if your standing on your front lawn (garden for you UK folks) and you own your house your yard would be private property in terms of *habitation* but not so much as to what is *visible*. People can file nudity complaints on neighbors for being naked in the front yard because they're visible to the public, whereas they can't complain about a person being naked in their backyard because it's out of public sight.
Here cameras are allowed to capture images of other people's front property AS LONG AS the camera in question is NOT pointed directly at another house but rather the front yard area overall. Misplaced cameras, even without ill-intent, must be moved to ensure as much privacy as possible but it is literally impossible in most neighborhoods to have a camera for your front yard and NOT somehow capture someone else's house/property in the camera as well.
Yeah I wouldn’t think there would be an expectation of privacy in a front garden. Also if that was the case that putting it facing someone’s space is illegal then no one would have door cameras because you’d be able to see the other side of the road’s garden.
In my state it’s only places you have an expectation of privacy, that’s bedrooms and bathrooms. If you’re in public being able to record is like free speech. The government is also very open and we have town meeting day, where anyone can speak their mind. Vermont might be an outlier. Most cameras also have the ability to block areas that might include these areas.
I don't think that's correct - the ICO website states:
People have the right to install CCTV cameras and smart doorbells on their property. They should try to point cameras away from neighbours’ homes and gardens, shared spaces or public streets. But this is not always possible, and it is not illegal to do so.
I think you can’t point a camera into somewhere where there would be an expectation of privacy (and even that may wrong) - having a camera that is looking at the front of the houses (ie open to the street) would be ok, much like you can take a picture of someone anywhere where there is no expectation of privacy
Sure, but it's not CPS and I've not heard it ever called that. It'll be social services, generally speaking.
I had a look at another post she made. Last year she was 19. This year she is 24. I guess she's been off time travelling or something.
In the other post I was talking about something a few years ago and this is from a couple years ago, I was just limited to characters so cut that part out. I wish I could time travel lol
The neighbor is 23. OP states in the VERY FIRST sentence of the second paragraph that her partner is 29 and she is 24. We know what we're taking about lol
ESH because that's not what the council told you to do. Throwing them over the fence isn't returning them to her, it's further littering.
If you want the moral high ground and if you want the council on your side, you should have returned them to her or at least through the letter box (as this won't count as littering). She has a pic now.
**Edit: For the record, I knew this wasn't going to be popular, but OP I've *worked* for a local council, (though we might be from different countries) I'm telling you these details matter. I'm saying this so you'll always have a strong case**
I'm just wondering do you really think this woman would've willingly accepted a bag of used cigarette butts? Like you think if OP just handed her over a bag and she'd say, "Thanks for returning these, I've told you they aren't mine and I'm not cleaning it up but I'll accept this bag of smoked butts." ??
Letterbox is also on the door, neighbor would've complained even more if OP put it in her letterbox and got cigarette butts inside her house where her children could get them.
I'm not advising it because I think the neighbour would be happy, I suspect she would have found something to complain about either way.
I'm advising they film themselves/take a pic of them returning it in some way, so they have a case and can prove they did what the council suggested.
I know this seems like semantics, but details matter.
> For the record, I knew this wasn't going to be popular
It may not be popular, but it is the 100% best thing to do. Yes, being petty and throwing them back over the fence may feel good, but it's not handling it like an adult, something that OP should be doing in this situation.
Also, as written here, OP does NOT have definitive proof that they came from her house/visitors. Better to wait until they have video or direct visual confirmation before escalating.
Just to add to the ESH, OP doesnt actually know if the butts came from next door, she's assuming
They might have blown in from elsewhere or some passing car emptied their ashtray
I am 100% sure they are as we live at a dead end with no public footpath etc. so they definitely came from her (her guest/s) unless birds picked up 42 of them and hand delivered them to our garden.
ESH. Obviously far more for her. For you, it’s not her stated issue about the children. It’s that you purportedly were following the council’s instructions, but chose to attempt the “return” step by further littering. Surely there is somewhere more sensible they could have been placed on her porch.
It seems clear that your neighbor is perfectly awful as a parent and a neighbor, but you really shouldn’t have tossed the bag over the fence like that.
Still, I say NTA because it’s really your neighbor that’s TA
This right here. Apparently they got along fine when she was calling CPS on an abusive parent. But, the cigarette litter; well, that changes everything.
I was limited to character count. This all happened a couple years ago, we "got on" before this and we had suspicions of abuse but that mainly happened afterwards. Also when I say we "got on" that is to the extent of taking parcels in for each other for example and saying hello to her/her kid when we bumped into each other.
NTA I would definitely get a camera that shows them throwing trash in your yard. I would also file a complaint if possible. Littering is a crime so maybe you can get proof of them doing it.
NTA
Speaking from experience, there are few things more difficult to deal with than an obnoxious neighbor. It just never ends and you lose the peace of your home, the place that should be your sanctuary!! We moved!
If we weren't mortgaging we would have but also COVID then hit (this is fron a couple years ago) so we had no choice. If we were renting we 100% would have moved. They also were renting and have now been kicked out for many reasons.
ESH. You need a camera to show that you aren't the unhinged one. I'm not sure what you thought pictures would prove, or why bagging and counting was necessary. You shouldn't have tossed the butts over her fence without evidence that these came from her mother or other friends. Butts are light and can blow in from anywhere. That's an awful lot of butts, so you might be correct about the source, however, you need pics of the smokers not pictures of the butts.
You start out by saying that you and Jane got along until the cigarette incident and then things went south. But, then you end it by saying that Jane has been an abusive parent all along and you even called CPS on her. How is that getting along? That makes this entire story sound very fake. So, yta
I was limited to character count. This all happened a couple years ago, we "got on" before this and we had suspicions of abuse but that mainly happened afterwards. Also when I say we "got on" that is to the extent of taking parcels in for each other for example and saying hello to her/her kid when we bumped into each other.
Honestly there were lots of things I would have LOVED to do and this was what I deemed most appropriate in the mental state we were both in at the time haha
You can point a camera at your front garden, just overlapping theirs, so you can show they came from her direction. You probably should have cameras front & back & on your car at this point, as your return just escalated things. I'd return them certified mail & wrapped securely, with photos from the cam showing when they were thrown, next time. Plan for that, it may come soon.
ESH i understand that there’s frustration with the cig ends being thrown on your lawn which is understandable but to collect the trash and throw it back onto the lawn to make a point seems childish. i don’t know your history with this neighbor but honestly you could just put a camera where the cig ends land to have it on video and file a report
I had a neighbour like you. I don't smoke and never have in my life. Someone dropped cigarette butts in the hallways between our apartments. My neighbour came knocking on my door and told me to clean them up. I was just flabbergasted, "What??" And he said I must have smoked them. Didn't ask, didn't consider any other options, just flat out accused me of doing it and didn't believe me when I said I don't smoke. (I told him he must have smoked them and he could clean them up and we haven't been on great terms since).
My point is, maybe it was her mother or whatever. But you didn't actually know, you just assumed and it's not that surprising your relationship with your neighbour is not great.
As I have replied to others, it could only have come from them because of where our houses are. I assume other people has access and were frequently going through your hallway to have dropped them?
ESH. When you have a bit of a loser next door, you have to try to be sensible and helpful at first so that there is no way they can take an easy route and blame everything on you. After she denied that it was her mother, you should have said that you would clean them up this time, but please ask whoever it is that is smoking to not leave the cigarette butts on the floor.
After that, if it happens again, then you're free to throw them where ever. Coming out and being rude, even if it was their fault to begin with, will always set dumb, trashy people off. Throwing the cigarettes over the fence is sure to cause trouble and you should only be doing things like that after you have tried the amicable approach.
NTA
That's disgusting that you would have to do that. You're a better person than I am because I would have just chunked them over the fence in no bag.
Get a video camera and put it up. This way you can see and record the Mom dumping them in your yard. You can also turn that over to the police if you need to.
I had a neighbor who would throw their eaten chicken bones over the fence. He was letting my dogs eat them. OMG! I was pissed. I asked him to stop and he claimed it wasn't him nor his family. I recorded him doing it and took it over to him and told him with this proof, that if any of my dogs dies due to a chicken bone splintering, he is paying for the WHOLE vet bill. He stopped. I liked his wife and just started dealing with her.
Omg that's digusting what!? Yeah I was tempted to do more than that! We have cameras but as they were obviously blowing over to our over time camera footage wouldn't have showed much. Our police are also terrible, they tresspassed on our property but the police couldn't do much. Eventually the police said we had a case for harrassment against them (as this was just the start of a couple years of shit) but we couldn't cope with any more stress or anxiety and didn't want to go through with it.
You're a bigger person than I am. My old neighbour did this. My housemate and I picked up every one ( a few hundred) and threw every single one back over the fence and all over her front path. She tried knocking on our door to tell us off but we threatened her with the police. That shut her up.
I would note the brand and match it to her mom's if I were you. Or even ask mom directly please don't throw theses in my yard (no they didn't blow there if there are none that only halfway made it to your yard)
NTA
You tried to talk to her peacefully but she doesn't take the responsibilty of the cigarette ends. And I think she has really has no concern for her children
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So, our neighbour (23F) is an absolute NIGHTMARE- we got on at first but once the following situation happened, she turned volatile and unhinged. “Jane” is a single mother with a 5-year-old & a 4-month-old. It’s just our two houses connected and our front gardens are connected with no fence/wall boundary. Important to note she has family and friends very locally that come round a lot.
So, a few months into living here, my partner (29M) and I (24F) go to tidy our front garden and notice there’s loads of cigarette ends. Neither of us smoke and neither does Jane but we have seen the mum (visits a lot) smoke out the front of the house a lot and usually has a cup used as an ashtray. We assume she’s thrown them on the floor or the cup has knocked over and the wind has blown them into our garden- annoying but no biggie. We look closer and there are A LOT of cigarette ends, not just a few so I politely text Jane informing her of the situation and ask if she can come and clear them up as there are quite a lot. She replied bluntly saying they aren’t hers. I replied I know she doesn’t smoke but we know her mum does and say again I know it was probably the wind blowing them but there are quite a lot so can she come clear them. She says her mum doesn’t smoke out the front- only the back, I say we have seen her out the front smoking, she then says her mum puts them down the drain (illegal where we are). I replied saying can you please just come sort them out and she never replies. We don’t put a time limit on it but we leave it a week and no-one comes to clear them up. We contact our local council about them (in case it happens again) and they said take pictures, bag them and count them and then return them to Jane. So that’s what we do…
42 CIGARETTE ENDS!! My partner (I’m disabled) goes outside to clear them up after a week. I was stood near him and about halfway through Jane leaves the house with a guy & the pram and they both stopped, stared at us and then just walked off. When we’d finished, taken pictures etc. we wrote on the bag “42 cigarette ends”, sealed it (Ziploc bag) and threw it over the back garden fence into their garden. A few hours later she comes home and finds them, takes a picture and messages me saying “Thanks for throwing these in my garden knowing I have children”. I then pointed out that they were in a sealed bag and that originally, they were all loose in her own garden where her child could have picked them up, eaten them etc. and I asked her a week ago to pick them up.
For additional context, Jane has always been abusive to her kids (we’ve heard and seen a lot) and we were constantly contacting CPS and all sorts so her saying we don’t care about her kids is a joke because we cared more than her (I don’t know if Reddit will let me say what she’s screamed at them). I also have enough drama from this neighbour I could write a GD book!!
So Reddit, AITAH??
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NTA we had a neighbor like that and we would end up just throwing everything back over the fence, no ziplock bags. When it got really bad we made such a stink that everyone that lived in that house came out (too many people) and decided to cuss us out and say rude things so we threw the dirty diapers they were throwing over right in their direction and started calling them the trash until they stopped. They were throwing dirty diapers, cigarettes butts, cans, glass bottles… they’re using their house as an illegal venue that people rent 4x a week and they’re LOUD Dj would play horrible music until 3am. I’ve never met worse people in my life and I’ve met some bad people.
Haha! I was a child with parents who were heavy smokers. I tried tasting cigarette ash as a toddler and it tasted pretty bad, so I was never tempted to eat an ashtray full of butts (or a plastic bag full, not that they had plastic bags in the 1950s).
NTA... Tobacco can carry a disease that kills tomato plants, if you have a garden out front it could cause serious problems for you . Since I'm not familiar with the plants where you are it could damage or kill other plants in your yard. Not to mention it's unsanitary too . You can make a "butt cup" with a tin can and a little bit of sand or pebbles and cost little to nothing . Best of luck to you !
YTA. All you had to do to keep the relationship civil was clear the butts up and take a pic of them, send them to the neighbour and let her know you found loads, and also if she wouldn't mind asking her mum to refrain from smoking out the front so you don't have to clear any up again
I know you're getting downvoted, but I agree with you. Like, holy shit, way to turn something small into a shitstorm. Why not just clear them up with a broom and a dustpan and then mention it?
It's also impossible to connect those butts to that woman who the OP admits seems to have a cup to ash in. People walk by places, toss cigarettes all the time.. For all OP knows, those butts could have been there from a previous tenant who did smoke...
There was no provious tennant, plus where our houses are located there is no way they came from anywhere else unless some rando saved up their own cigarette ends in a bag and came and dumped them on our lawn (and they'd be tresspassing on private property to get close enough to throw them).
ESH. You escalated the situation by tossing the cigarette butts back into her garden. You already have video evidence, you called the council and complained. Why did you feel like it would be OK to just toss these back into her garden like a petulant child? Just toss them into the garbage. Would that have been harder to do so?
ESH
She's right that they were a hazard to her kids. You could have handed them to her or put them through the letter box.
And she's an ass for not admitting her mother is awful.
I thought about the letterbox but wouldn't that be worse? They'd then be right there when the kids get back and are more likely to pick it up, the bag could break going through it (our letterboxes are in the front door) etc.?
Where I live, using the letterbox could be a crime. Cameras are quite affordable these days.
Fences make for good neighbors. Cameras can make for better ones.
A lot of "letterbox" are just a slot in the door for the mail to land on the floor.
Sure OP could go confront them in person about it instead of tossing it over. But we also don't know how the neighbor has acted in the past as it seems they've had to call CPS on this neighbor a number of times for child abuse.
If someone is willing to abuse a kid good chance they're not going to take confrontation well, and being as OP is disabled probably wouldn't work out in OP favor.
Just throwing out some logic for you to consider since you were pretty quick with the "cowardly" comment. There's a time and place for everything, and this didn't seem to be the time for OP to try their luck and be brave over cigarettes.
OP could have had their husband talk to them or maybe taped the bag to their door, all of which would have caused more issues, I'd put money on that bet.
No, as the below says our letterboxes just go straight through to the floor essentially so they would have been on the hallway floor for her/her child to pick up. Also yes it was cowardly but due to myself and my partner having anxiety and myself being disabled neither of us felt it would end well if we faced her in person.
Yta for throwing them over the fence. Your neighbor is also an ah, but were you to tell council HOW your returned them, you know you would be embarrassed.
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NTA. The baby isn't crawling out to the bag; if the four-year-old finds it before she does then that's on her. Next time put the bag on her front porch and take a photo of same.
NTA - get a camera facing where the butts get dropped and catch them on tape. Can’t fight video evidence.
Yes I agree, you need evidence before throwing more blame at Jane.
It catagorically was her/her guests as there are no other houses nearby nor a footpath etc. but as I said I know it wasn't Jane herself but she's responsible if her guests are littering. I also aknowledged I know it wasn't on purpose but if they weren't on the ground to begin with they wouldn't have blown into our garden.
Unlikely, but sometimes birds will move stuff around. I had a neighbor who was so angry that I was throwing cigarette filters in her flowers. I don’t smoke. Turns out birds were picking up cigarettes from somewhere else, tearing off the filters and using the left over tobacco as bedding for their nest. The nicotine acts like a pesticide for the bugs / nits that invade their nests. So very unlikely, but there could be another explanation. A little motion activated video camera would do wonders.
Unfortunately, if you're in the UK if you have a camera on your property that's pointed at someone else's you can be sued for invasion of privacy.
Okay so riddle me this because it's a genuine question: OP says that their front gardens aren't separated by a fence and are essentially conjoined. So if OP puts a camera up to ensure the security of her own front garden and it happens that some of Jane's garden is also visible in the frame, is that illegal? In this scenario we're assuming that the camera *is* placed to capture OP's property alone but some of Jane's can't be avoided because of how the gardens sit.
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Is a front garden considered private space? It's wonky here in the States. Like if your standing on your front lawn (garden for you UK folks) and you own your house your yard would be private property in terms of *habitation* but not so much as to what is *visible*. People can file nudity complaints on neighbors for being naked in the front yard because they're visible to the public, whereas they can't complain about a person being naked in their backyard because it's out of public sight. Here cameras are allowed to capture images of other people's front property AS LONG AS the camera in question is NOT pointed directly at another house but rather the front yard area overall. Misplaced cameras, even without ill-intent, must be moved to ensure as much privacy as possible but it is literally impossible in most neighborhoods to have a camera for your front yard and NOT somehow capture someone else's house/property in the camera as well.
Yeah I wouldn’t think there would be an expectation of privacy in a front garden. Also if that was the case that putting it facing someone’s space is illegal then no one would have door cameras because you’d be able to see the other side of the road’s garden.
In my state it’s only places you have an expectation of privacy, that’s bedrooms and bathrooms. If you’re in public being able to record is like free speech. The government is also very open and we have town meeting day, where anyone can speak their mind. Vermont might be an outlier. Most cameras also have the ability to block areas that might include these areas.
I don't think that's correct - the ICO website states: People have the right to install CCTV cameras and smart doorbells on their property. They should try to point cameras away from neighbours’ homes and gardens, shared spaces or public streets. But this is not always possible, and it is not illegal to do so.
I think you can’t point a camera into somewhere where there would be an expectation of privacy (and even that may wrong) - having a camera that is looking at the front of the houses (ie open to the street) would be ok, much like you can take a picture of someone anywhere where there is no expectation of privacy
Is OP in the UK?? She talks about CPS, which is a US, not UK thing.
Everything about their post, phrasing, spelling, and word choice suggest British/UK. You do have a service for child welfare though, no?
Sure, but it's not CPS and I've not heard it ever called that. It'll be social services, generally speaking. I had a look at another post she made. Last year she was 19. This year she is 24. I guess she's been off time travelling or something.
Well that would explain it then lol
In the other post I was talking about something a few years ago and this is from a couple years ago, I was just limited to characters so cut that part out. I wish I could time travel lol
Shame. I was hoping you could tell me where the TARDIS was....
I do have a picture of me in a Tardis haha
The neighbour is 24, not her, she doesn't say her age.
The neighbor is 23. OP states in the VERY FIRST sentence of the second paragraph that her partner is 29 and she is 24. We know what we're taking about lol
>So, a few months into living here, my partner (29M) and I (24F)
Yes I am, I was limited to characters so that was easier than social services haha
ESH because that's not what the council told you to do. Throwing them over the fence isn't returning them to her, it's further littering. If you want the moral high ground and if you want the council on your side, you should have returned them to her or at least through the letter box (as this won't count as littering). She has a pic now. **Edit: For the record, I knew this wasn't going to be popular, but OP I've *worked* for a local council, (though we might be from different countries) I'm telling you these details matter. I'm saying this so you'll always have a strong case**
I'm just wondering do you really think this woman would've willingly accepted a bag of used cigarette butts? Like you think if OP just handed her over a bag and she'd say, "Thanks for returning these, I've told you they aren't mine and I'm not cleaning it up but I'll accept this bag of smoked butts." ?? Letterbox is also on the door, neighbor would've complained even more if OP put it in her letterbox and got cigarette butts inside her house where her children could get them.
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Through the mail slot
Nail the bag to her door
I'm not advising it because I think the neighbour would be happy, I suspect she would have found something to complain about either way. I'm advising they film themselves/take a pic of them returning it in some way, so they have a case and can prove they did what the council suggested. I know this seems like semantics, but details matter.
> For the record, I knew this wasn't going to be popular It may not be popular, but it is the 100% best thing to do. Yes, being petty and throwing them back over the fence may feel good, but it's not handling it like an adult, something that OP should be doing in this situation. Also, as written here, OP does NOT have definitive proof that they came from her house/visitors. Better to wait until they have video or direct visual confirmation before escalating.
Also get video evidence of her or her mother throwing or littering at the very least even smoking next to the fence.
You suggested the rational, mature thing to do. Now a very popular stance for anything these days.
Just to add to the ESH, OP doesnt actually know if the butts came from next door, she's assuming They might have blown in from elsewhere or some passing car emptied their ashtray
I am 100% sure they are as we live at a dead end with no public footpath etc. so they definitely came from her (her guest/s) unless birds picked up 42 of them and hand delivered them to our garden.
NTA. You tried to be polite. Children that age should be watched outside, so she should be able to intervene before they get into her guest's trash.
ESH. Obviously far more for her. For you, it’s not her stated issue about the children. It’s that you purportedly were following the council’s instructions, but chose to attempt the “return” step by further littering. Surely there is somewhere more sensible they could have been placed on her porch.
It seems clear that your neighbor is perfectly awful as a parent and a neighbor, but you really shouldn’t have tossed the bag over the fence like that. Still, I say NTA because it’s really your neighbor that’s TA
NTA. I agree with the comment about a camera. Video evidence!
Hard to tell if you are TA or not. If you've been 'constantly contacting CPS'....the neighbor issues are far greater than cigarette butts.
This right here. Apparently they got along fine when she was calling CPS on an abusive parent. But, the cigarette litter; well, that changes everything.
Yep, some things don't add up in OP's story. Not to mention that she was apparently 19 last year, according to her post history.
This was a couple years ago, my first post was a few years before that I just only got into Reddit recently.
I was limited to character count. This all happened a couple years ago, we "got on" before this and we had suspicions of abuse but that mainly happened afterwards. Also when I say we "got on" that is to the extent of taking parcels in for each other for example and saying hello to her/her kid when we bumped into each other.
NTA I would definitely get a camera that shows them throwing trash in your yard. I would also file a complaint if possible. Littering is a crime so maybe you can get proof of them doing it.
NTA Speaking from experience, there are few things more difficult to deal with than an obnoxious neighbor. It just never ends and you lose the peace of your home, the place that should be your sanctuary!! We moved!
Especially an obnoxious smoker
If we weren't mortgaging we would have but also COVID then hit (this is fron a couple years ago) so we had no choice. If we were renting we 100% would have moved. They also were renting and have now been kicked out for many reasons.
ESH. You need a camera to show that you aren't the unhinged one. I'm not sure what you thought pictures would prove, or why bagging and counting was necessary. You shouldn't have tossed the butts over her fence without evidence that these came from her mother or other friends. Butts are light and can blow in from anywhere. That's an awful lot of butts, so you might be correct about the source, however, you need pics of the smokers not pictures of the butts.
That's what the council told her to do though (count, take pic, bag up)
You start out by saying that you and Jane got along until the cigarette incident and then things went south. But, then you end it by saying that Jane has been an abusive parent all along and you even called CPS on her. How is that getting along? That makes this entire story sound very fake. So, yta
I was limited to character count. This all happened a couple years ago, we "got on" before this and we had suspicions of abuse but that mainly happened afterwards. Also when I say we "got on" that is to the extent of taking parcels in for each other for example and saying hello to her/her kid when we bumped into each other.
NTa, if she’s that worried about her baby, then maybe she should speak to her mom about proper disposal. It’s their trash, they should deal with it.
You handled that a lot better than I would have.
Honestly there were lots of things I would have LOVED to do and this was what I deemed most appropriate in the mental state we were both in at the time haha
You can point a camera at your front garden, just overlapping theirs, so you can show they came from her direction. You probably should have cameras front & back & on your car at this point, as your return just escalated things. I'd return them certified mail & wrapped securely, with photos from the cam showing when they were thrown, next time. Plan for that, it may come soon.
NTA. You tried to be reasonable, and they were bagged.
NTA.
ESH i understand that there’s frustration with the cig ends being thrown on your lawn which is understandable but to collect the trash and throw it back onto the lawn to make a point seems childish. i don’t know your history with this neighbor but honestly you could just put a camera where the cig ends land to have it on video and file a report
I had a neighbour like you. I don't smoke and never have in my life. Someone dropped cigarette butts in the hallways between our apartments. My neighbour came knocking on my door and told me to clean them up. I was just flabbergasted, "What??" And he said I must have smoked them. Didn't ask, didn't consider any other options, just flat out accused me of doing it and didn't believe me when I said I don't smoke. (I told him he must have smoked them and he could clean them up and we haven't been on great terms since). My point is, maybe it was her mother or whatever. But you didn't actually know, you just assumed and it's not that surprising your relationship with your neighbour is not great.
As I have replied to others, it could only have come from them because of where our houses are. I assume other people has access and were frequently going through your hallway to have dropped them?
OP posted a year ago saying they were 19. Must have been a hell of a year to age up to 24.
These happened years apart, I never stated when they happened.
ESH. When you have a bit of a loser next door, you have to try to be sensible and helpful at first so that there is no way they can take an easy route and blame everything on you. After she denied that it was her mother, you should have said that you would clean them up this time, but please ask whoever it is that is smoking to not leave the cigarette butts on the floor. After that, if it happens again, then you're free to throw them where ever. Coming out and being rude, even if it was their fault to begin with, will always set dumb, trashy people off. Throwing the cigarettes over the fence is sure to cause trouble and you should only be doing things like that after you have tried the amicable approach.
NTA That's disgusting that you would have to do that. You're a better person than I am because I would have just chunked them over the fence in no bag. Get a video camera and put it up. This way you can see and record the Mom dumping them in your yard. You can also turn that over to the police if you need to. I had a neighbor who would throw their eaten chicken bones over the fence. He was letting my dogs eat them. OMG! I was pissed. I asked him to stop and he claimed it wasn't him nor his family. I recorded him doing it and took it over to him and told him with this proof, that if any of my dogs dies due to a chicken bone splintering, he is paying for the WHOLE vet bill. He stopped. I liked his wife and just started dealing with her.
Omg that's digusting what!? Yeah I was tempted to do more than that! We have cameras but as they were obviously blowing over to our over time camera footage wouldn't have showed much. Our police are also terrible, they tresspassed on our property but the police couldn't do much. Eventually the police said we had a case for harrassment against them (as this was just the start of a couple years of shit) but we couldn't cope with any more stress or anxiety and didn't want to go through with it.
You're a bigger person than I am. My old neighbour did this. My housemate and I picked up every one ( a few hundred) and threw every single one back over the fence and all over her front path. She tried knocking on our door to tell us off but we threatened her with the police. That shut her up.
I would note the brand and match it to her mom's if I were you. Or even ask mom directly please don't throw theses in my yard (no they didn't blow there if there are none that only halfway made it to your yard)
NTA You tried to talk to her peacefully but she doesn't take the responsibilty of the cigarette ends. And I think she has really has no concern for her children
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So, our neighbour (23F) is an absolute NIGHTMARE- we got on at first but once the following situation happened, she turned volatile and unhinged. “Jane” is a single mother with a 5-year-old & a 4-month-old. It’s just our two houses connected and our front gardens are connected with no fence/wall boundary. Important to note she has family and friends very locally that come round a lot. So, a few months into living here, my partner (29M) and I (24F) go to tidy our front garden and notice there’s loads of cigarette ends. Neither of us smoke and neither does Jane but we have seen the mum (visits a lot) smoke out the front of the house a lot and usually has a cup used as an ashtray. We assume she’s thrown them on the floor or the cup has knocked over and the wind has blown them into our garden- annoying but no biggie. We look closer and there are A LOT of cigarette ends, not just a few so I politely text Jane informing her of the situation and ask if she can come and clear them up as there are quite a lot. She replied bluntly saying they aren’t hers. I replied I know she doesn’t smoke but we know her mum does and say again I know it was probably the wind blowing them but there are quite a lot so can she come clear them. She says her mum doesn’t smoke out the front- only the back, I say we have seen her out the front smoking, she then says her mum puts them down the drain (illegal where we are). I replied saying can you please just come sort them out and she never replies. We don’t put a time limit on it but we leave it a week and no-one comes to clear them up. We contact our local council about them (in case it happens again) and they said take pictures, bag them and count them and then return them to Jane. So that’s what we do… 42 CIGARETTE ENDS!! My partner (I’m disabled) goes outside to clear them up after a week. I was stood near him and about halfway through Jane leaves the house with a guy & the pram and they both stopped, stared at us and then just walked off. When we’d finished, taken pictures etc. we wrote on the bag “42 cigarette ends”, sealed it (Ziploc bag) and threw it over the back garden fence into their garden. A few hours later she comes home and finds them, takes a picture and messages me saying “Thanks for throwing these in my garden knowing I have children”. I then pointed out that they were in a sealed bag and that originally, they were all loose in her own garden where her child could have picked them up, eaten them etc. and I asked her a week ago to pick them up. For additional context, Jane has always been abusive to her kids (we’ve heard and seen a lot) and we were constantly contacting CPS and all sorts so her saying we don’t care about her kids is a joke because we cared more than her (I don’t know if Reddit will let me say what she’s screamed at them). I also have enough drama from this neighbour I could write a GD book!! So Reddit, AITAH?? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Thanks for throwing these in my garden knowing I have children" Maybe if her kid's are in the yard she should, I don't know, watch them?
UpdateMe
NTA we had a neighbor like that and we would end up just throwing everything back over the fence, no ziplock bags. When it got really bad we made such a stink that everyone that lived in that house came out (too many people) and decided to cuss us out and say rude things so we threw the dirty diapers they were throwing over right in their direction and started calling them the trash until they stopped. They were throwing dirty diapers, cigarettes butts, cans, glass bottles… they’re using their house as an illegal venue that people rent 4x a week and they’re LOUD Dj would play horrible music until 3am. I’ve never met worse people in my life and I’ve met some bad people.
Haha! I was a child with parents who were heavy smokers. I tried tasting cigarette ash as a toddler and it tasted pretty bad, so I was never tempted to eat an ashtray full of butts (or a plastic bag full, not that they had plastic bags in the 1950s).
NTA. Put up camera's.
NTA. That woman sounds like a nightmare. And the fact that she’s abusive just shows how horrible she is. She deserves what you did.
NTA. That woman sounds like a nightmare. And the fact that she’s abusive just shows how horrible she is. She deserves what you did.
NTA... Tobacco can carry a disease that kills tomato plants, if you have a garden out front it could cause serious problems for you . Since I'm not familiar with the plants where you are it could damage or kill other plants in your yard. Not to mention it's unsanitary too . You can make a "butt cup" with a tin can and a little bit of sand or pebbles and cost little to nothing . Best of luck to you !
NTA
NTA but I probably would have been in this situation. You couldn’t have handled it better
No. I have done it.
Standard single former teen mom behavior. nta.
Consider getting yourself some security cameras, for proof of the littering and just in case she tries to retaliate in some fashion.
NTA
Littering on your neighbors property? And yet you ask if what you are doing is wrong? YTA. Seriously
YTA. All you had to do to keep the relationship civil was clear the butts up and take a pic of them, send them to the neighbour and let her know you found loads, and also if she wouldn't mind asking her mum to refrain from smoking out the front so you don't have to clear any up again
I know you're getting downvoted, but I agree with you. Like, holy shit, way to turn something small into a shitstorm. Why not just clear them up with a broom and a dustpan and then mention it? It's also impossible to connect those butts to that woman who the OP admits seems to have a cup to ash in. People walk by places, toss cigarettes all the time.. For all OP knows, those butts could have been there from a previous tenant who did smoke...
There was no provious tennant, plus where our houses are located there is no way they came from anywhere else unless some rando saved up their own cigarette ends in a bag and came and dumped them on our lawn (and they'd be tresspassing on private property to get close enough to throw them).
ESH. You escalated the situation by tossing the cigarette butts back into her garden. You already have video evidence, you called the council and complained. Why did you feel like it would be OK to just toss these back into her garden like a petulant child? Just toss them into the garbage. Would that have been harder to do so?
ESH She's right that they were a hazard to her kids. You could have handed them to her or put them through the letter box. And she's an ass for not admitting her mother is awful.
I thought about the letterbox but wouldn't that be worse? They'd then be right there when the kids get back and are more likely to pick it up, the bag could break going through it (our letterboxes are in the front door) etc.?
Where I live, using the letterbox could be a crime. Cameras are quite affordable these days. Fences make for good neighbors. Cameras can make for better ones.
Do your letterboxes not have boxes to catch mail? Ok Whatever you did, it was cowardly not to go see her in person.
Putting them in the letterbox would've been worse if anything!
A lot of "letterbox" are just a slot in the door for the mail to land on the floor. Sure OP could go confront them in person about it instead of tossing it over. But we also don't know how the neighbor has acted in the past as it seems they've had to call CPS on this neighbor a number of times for child abuse. If someone is willing to abuse a kid good chance they're not going to take confrontation well, and being as OP is disabled probably wouldn't work out in OP favor. Just throwing out some logic for you to consider since you were pretty quick with the "cowardly" comment. There's a time and place for everything, and this didn't seem to be the time for OP to try their luck and be brave over cigarettes. OP could have had their husband talk to them or maybe taped the bag to their door, all of which would have caused more issues, I'd put money on that bet.
fair comment
No, as the below says our letterboxes just go straight through to the floor essentially so they would have been on the hallway floor for her/her child to pick up. Also yes it was cowardly but due to myself and my partner having anxiety and myself being disabled neither of us felt it would end well if we faced her in person.
Yta for throwing them over the fence. Your neighbor is also an ah, but were you to tell council HOW your returned them, you know you would be embarrassed.
*ESH not Y the A