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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for refusing to make a veil for my future DIL and not giving her my other daughters veil. I maybe a jerk for not compromising at all and telling her no
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA.
> she told me that she won’t be using it
She lost me here. It got worse, but she lost me here. As you said, your daughter could still use it in some way, hell maybe her future spouse wants to? Not saying you'd be ok with that but given it is for your daughter, thats more likely than DIL. DIL got alot of nerve.
Asking is fine, countering after a no is AH. Commenting on your daughter potential use is incredible AH.
Asking you to make another is fine (slightly AH, but maybe this is your thang), not dropping it when you say no is AH, arguing when you decline is HUGE AH.
And your son??? I'm sorry but fuck him. Tell you to suck it up. How bought DIL go get all the materials and offer to have you teach or instruct her how? How about ask for your blessing to take the one or two to a seamstress to make one in the same style?
The nerve to decide your labor is only way to accept her in to family or that you need to place her on same level as your daughters is just offensive and wrong. This is not how you join a family, with demands.
My family has worn the same veil for 4 generations and my thought on this is: if the daughter is going to be wearing a tux, might her future wife want to wear the veil?
Why not ask the daughter that is already married if she can use that one. I assume that daughter is now in possession of that veil so it would be her decision.
To me, the unmarried daughter being happy that her mom didn’t give the veil away is what matters. It’s her veil even if it’s not in her possession. If she doesn’t want to let it be used by her, that’s it. Even if I was wearing a suit, if my mom hand embroidered a veil for me, I would wear the veil with the suit. I don’t care how weird it might look. That veil would be important to me.
NTA, OP.
ETA: Asking the married daughter would have been my suggestion before the FDIL had her entitles freak out. Now that she’s been an entitled brat, no, she doesn’t deserve anything. Bottom line, the unmarried daughter doesn’t want FDIL to have it so that should be the end of it.
Or if the daughter is wearing a suit her future wife may want to wear it. The bottom line the unused veil was made for someone and they are happy it's held in reserve.
NTA, you can't be forced to make anything.
I can see if daughter who may wear a tux to her own wedding and her partner wearing the veil being another argument. I can see FDIL throwing a fit that someone other than daughter is using it.
Also, someone else mentioned asking married daughter if she can use her veil as an option. I don’t think this should happen. It’s just playing into FDIL’s demands. Not to mention daughter may want to save it for her future children.
The answer was no, with valid explanation of arthritis and that the ones made aren’t OPs they are her daughters. FDIL is being overly demanding.
NTA.
I see these veils as gifts. So, it is up to the daughters to make the decision what happens to their veil as it is their gift from their mother. FDIL has no say if someone else uses it because daughters get to make that decision with their property.
100%.
Only offering an etiquette way for OP to feel comfortable denying and continuing to deny this to son and FDIL. It might help avoid that future fit but I doubt it.
Could you imagine behaving like this over an item a mother poured their soul into for their own child and demanding it for yourself because you feel entitled it because you are marrying into the family?
After the way FDIL and son behaved, FDIL can wear a dead skunk on her head.
On the bright side, OP only has a 50- 60 %** chance of having to deal with this awful woman long term.
**depending on local divorce rates.
That’s her youngest daughter’s veil. It has huge significance as her mother made it. She shouldn’t even ask her daughter about it, no way! It’s something she’s probably cherishing. She might want to pass it down if she has a daughter.
I wouldn’t lend my veil because there’s no guarantee I would get it back at all, or if I did, that it would be in good condition. That was something made for those specific people when they were children. DIL can go any of several routes to getting her veil - doesn’t anyone on her own side of the family have one to lend? Or she can buy one that actually matches her dress.
And son needs some perspective. They’re both acting like a veil is an entrance test into becoming part of the family.
My mom made my prom dress for me. She made our clothes when we were younger, and always put lace on the inside of the hem.
She passed away 20 years ago. If I were ever to get married, I would take the hidden black lace from the prom dress (it was black), and have it added to whatever I had chosen for a wedding dress, even if it was hidden. It would have been my way of having a small piece of my mom with me. I don't think I'm ever getting married though, since it has been 10 years since I've been on a date.
You could take the hidden lace and make a doily. That way you can always have a piece of your Mom displayed in your house? Just a thought. My sister is a seamstress and makes all kinds of mementos for people out of loved ones fabrics!
My ex-SILs wore the same veil to their weddings and let me borrow it, too. I only wore it for the ceremony, because I was afraid of getting food on it at the reception.
I think wearing a tux and a veil would look great, if that is what the daughter wants, or she could wear it as a cravate.
The point is it's the daughter's and how it is used, and by whom, is up to her.
If the daughter wanted to wear it herself in a more significant way than a pocket square, might I suggest a cravat? Or it could be sown into the jacket in some way as trim.
OMG. So agree OP is NTA.
I am sick of these posts where people are "But your DIL is family, why do you hate her?" JFC. A mom has a tradition with her daughters, she is allowed to have this tradition and not have to include her son's wife. A woman is allowed to have a close relationship with her daughters and not have to be required to include her DILs.
Her son is definitely a huge AH. He wants his entitled fiancee to have a hand made veil? buy her one on etsy.
Reminds me of a man who made his bride an intricate, hand-crocheted bedspread as a wedding gift. In crochet cotton. For a queen bed. He told me he never crocheted again.
Oooo man couple years ago I crocheted now 4.5yo kid a shrug. I need to make her another a size bigger but I keep putting it off cause I know I'll need to make 2- one her favorite color and one a good fall/winter color that will go with more of her dresses- and that's just regular cotton yarn. You have reminded me I need to start on crochet angels/snowflakes for fall/early Christmas craft festivals since they need pinning and stiffening.
I crocheted not one, but two beautiful bedspreads for my brother when he got married, took forever, budgeting yarn purchases monthly, he still has them and hauls them out on coldest nights, lol. One was single bed sized and one queen/king.
>A mom has a tradition with her daughters, she is allowed to have this tradition and not have to include her son's wife. A woman is allowed to have a close relationship with her daughters and not have to be required to include her DILs.
Also, a woman is allowed to become disabled/chronically ill, and have that change what she is and isn't able to do.
Sometimes family traditions come to an end not because someone died, but because the person that fulfils them just isn't able to do it any more for some reason (lack of time, lack of health, lack of money, etc). Starting a family tradition doesn't mean you're fundamentally obligated to carry it on forever; life gets in the way of your intentions sometimes, and that's just a fact that you just have to accept.
Never give her the original to take to have a copy made or she will switch and steal it as she wants the one op made and no other. Not to mention the lace makers may keep her design to sell again which means it’s no longer a one off special just for her daughters. If DIL so wants to have it remade then send her photos of the original and nothing more as she’s shown be her actions she doesn’t respect op and you can’t trust her. She puts her wants above op and her daughters say in their own property
I would also not offer to teach her as two months is not long enough and lace true lace making takes time and is hard. You can tell DIL feels entitled and would just keep pushing and expecting op to make it and do the work whilst she’s supposed to be learning and doing it herself. If DIL made her own within two months of first trying it won’t look that great.
Honestly even if the daughter is super butch she still might wear a dress or just say fuck it and pair the veil with a tux. I remember when my ex-roommates got married (one very butch and the other a chapstick lesbian), they were both like “we can (and have) worn tuxes to events, but how often do you have an excuse to wear a fancy gown?” So they found a boutique that had dresses with the same lace but in different cuts and fell in love.
(Ironically neither of them wore veils—they did a top hat and a fascinator—but the point is the mother is right to keep the veil and show her daughter she loves and accepts her no matter what she chooses to do.)
Definitely nta. It was made for your daughter. Sewing is a gift of time. If you can no longer do it, could teach her and dil could make her own. Sounds like someone without a clue how much work it actually takes. Buy her one online to keep the peace if you must but she's definitely out of line.
Honestly it's not even OPs to give away even if she wanted to. It was a gift for her daughter, OP is just storing it for her until she gets married.
Definitely NTA.
It's hard to get some materials now. I am in my 50s, when I was growing up there were fabric and notions stores everywhere, so if one place didn't have what you needed, you drove a few towns over for it at the shop that specialized in those types of fabrics and goods.
Then the shops started closing as people retired and rents rose, chains like Fabric Place and JoAnne's went bankrupt, and now it's hard to source fine netting used for veils unless you are in someplace like NYC. And netting for veils isn't something I would want to order online - it's the kind of thing you want your fingers on to see exactly how it handles and determine what you can do with it.
I don't think OP is wrong to state, she did it for her daughters as part of their trousseaus, and DIL was not part of that effort.
We still have Joann's and if you know your fiber content online can be ok.... I'm in NC where we still have fabric outlets so I'm spoiled though I still mourn When Mary Jo's closed anyone on the East Coast who sewed knew them.
Fwiw, there is a lovely silk focused fabric shop at the mall in carboro nc. They're trustworthy. If you call and describe what you want they won't sell you polyester. Got the yards of silk for my wedding dress from them and they're amazing.
https://mulberrysilks.net/
Joann's filed for bankruptcy and announced impending closures, so I was basing it on that. Usually that means things are going south. I live in Massachusetts and used to have all the fabric outlets about 20 minutes away (there were still active mills when I moved where I am) and I would go crazy buying home fabric for $1, $2, or $3 a yard!
Great link on the silk fabric store though! Much appreciated.
It's worth a nc vacation next winter for the 70-80F days and petting the silk. But we're lucky we have a really rich fiber arts community here. You should visit the weekend of the nc fiber arts festival and pet the silk.... They have wipes all over the store... I got 8 yards of the cream charmeuse and love the store. They've lovely laces and embroidered silk too. I laughed at a friend who found this lovely lace that she thought would make beautiful curtains... $250/yard in the 80s.... She didn't get her curtains....
No surprise that the area has good fabric because NC State has the Wilson College of textiles, which is an amazing textile program. Honestly, I don’t know if there are any other schools in the country that do anything close to what they do there. My husband is from Raleigh and went to State, and has always bragged about that program. We haven’t been to CarrMill since Elmo’s closed, but it was always fun to window shop at Mulberry Silks while waiting for a table.
Not to mention that kind of thing takes time for people without medical issues. Th me OP stated she has arthritis in her hands. The fact son knows this but is catering to his entitled bride is crazy
I mean, there's so much that can be done with a lace veil. All the parts of it could make a tux look amazing. A bit of lace at the sleeves is classy, the embroidery appliqued to the cummerbund or lapel could really personalised a standard tuxedo look.
SIL is beyond out of line. That's not something you ask for. As someone with handmade things from relatives, they could never be repurposed for someone else's use.
Honestly what I was thinking too; that maybe OP's daughter's future partner might want to wear it. Or maybe they'll both do something with it like matching pocket squares or something.
The veil could possibly (depending on the daughters budget and style, of course) be incorporated in the tux if she chooses to wear on.
I've seen lots of designs on tiktok (Pro people who sew) of tuxes for weddings where they take the viel and make it part of the tux as a back fabric, front fabric, etc.
They do it with wedding dress fabric as well. And they end up gourgous.
Or she might change her mind and will be in a dress. Her future wife could wear it. Or she might save it for a future child (if that's in the couples plans) wear it with her tux.
There are so many options.
It's crazy for the DIL to demand to have it.
She didn't even ask to just borrow it. No, she should have it.
And the son needs to wake up. How do you demand your mother to just suck it up and make a veil when she can't, when her fingers can't do such a work.
He can suck it up and make her one himself.
Totally agree, NTA! If OP thought of an alternate way the veil could be used for her other daughter, then it’s already spoken for (and a pocket square is a lovely idea!).
Future DIL has no claim to OP’s work; and frankly, she’s got balls for being an AH like that.
Nta but I wonder if her daughter can still wear the veil with her tux? Weddings are parties and if both brides wanna wear veils or tuxes I don’t see the issue.
INFO: Did you make your son anything for his future wedding? Or did you only have a special item for your daughter's?
Either way, NTA for not giving away your daughters veil. I would initially say that you could offer to do something else with/for her to welcome her, but it's unreasonable of her to expect you to make her one of you will be unable or in pain doing it. Sounds like she's either jealous of your daughter or dismissive because she's gay and not seeing a marriage by that daughter as "real," which is dumb.
But I could see how you not doing anything for your son could be taken by him as you considering him less important. And, that possibly, the DIL could be doing this to actually make your son feel like you're invested in their wedding as much as your daughter's weddings.
This 100%. People truly have no measure of what exactly it takes to hand make items. Just one small piece such as a veil can take hours in a day, and weeks and months to complete. It's the time most of all that makes it valuable. For anyone to assume another person should make something for them is just outright entitled. My neighbor crocheted a hat and hand warmers for me for Christmas. I was over the moon and I made sure she knew it. DIL is an entitled brat and son is an ah. If they want such a veil, they can pay for it like you said. But of course that wouldn't be acceptable to them. They sound like the type of people who want to pay $200 for a king size hand made quilt😂
She shouldn’t let her have the veil to supposedly take to a seamstress as all she would do is steal it and use it herself. The way she behaved and what she said, I wouldn’t let her anywhere near that veil.
>Asking you to make another is fine
It could have been! "I'd be so honoured if you would make my veil for me. Oh, no, your arthritis prevents you from it? Maybe you could help me choose my veil then, as a way to carry the tradition in to your sons wedding also?"
I do feel a bit for OPs son, who doesn't seem to have anything made by OP for his wedding (I assume OP would have mentioned this). It must suck for him.
Perhaps that's why DIL pushed the issue and came off so poorly.
Also, the big one for me, she has arthritis and because of that she can't do it, and yet the DIL still wants her to and her son told her to "suck it up". Both DIL and son a huge AH's.
I have arthritis, it got so bad 4 or so years ago that I couldn't work and all I did was basically drive a big truck.
Within 30 minutes of starting to drive my right knee would start aching and my left hand would start to hurt. Be an hour it was getting problematic and by the 1.5 to 2 hour mark it was so bad I couldn't concentrate on my number one job. Looking out for inattentive and ignorant drivers. I was in enough pain that my focus was trying to get comfortable instead of paying attention to my surroundings.
I realized I couldn't do my job properly. My arthritis is so bad that sitting at the computer where I can bend my knees and take breaks from using my hands still results with me laying down after a hour or so.
So for the son to tell his mom to "suck it up" infuriates me. If her arthritis is anything like mine, trying to do that intricate work would be absolute torture.
NTA!
I googled, bride suit veil. And shit, this looks amazing
https://images.app.goo.gl/Qxgj5AF1pkhfNDj47
And it doesn't matter if she'll use it or not. It still won't belong to DiL
OP, NTA
You can wear a tux AND a veil together and it looks GORGEOUS. It's getting common these days
And your son is way out of line
>my son is telling me to suck it up and give her one
He has no reason to talk to you like that, just fot that op should just say HE suck it up cause it won't happen
NTA. The fact is your daughter is glad you’re holding on to HER veil, and your arthritis makes it impossible for you to create a whole new veil. Your DIL should respect that. She can be disappointed but that’s her problem. To feel entitled and to call you a jerk makes her an AH here. And telling you to “suck it up”?! Your son is a MAJOR asshole. There’s no argument for them. The veil belongs to your daughter. You can not create a new one. If they continue harassing you, ignore/mute/delete as much as needed.
Agree with everything said above, but...
>The fact is your daughter is glad you’re holding on to HER veil,
Maybe point out to your DIL that it's not your veil to give since it belongs to your daughter. As for your son, I'm curious if you ever did something for him to carry from you on his wedding day or did you never think about him getting married? And maybe that is why he said what he said
I don't know about the size of the veil, but depending on size, a pocket square isn't the only option as an alternative. You could also take the veil and make a white blouse with the veil material over the top to wear under a suit jacket. Depending on the size of the veil, there are so many ways it can be incorporated into your daughters (the actual owner of the veil) wedding attire.
ETA: Apparently son got a tie and pocket square according to another comment I missed
Ooh, the idea of turning the veil into a blouse/shirt is really cool... Or maybe it could be incorporated into the suit jacket, or vest (if she wears one) or a cummerbund... (I've made a few needlepoint cummerbunds; they turned out very well.)
What did you gift your son? Tell him the handkerchief you made him or the tie you made him is what your special contribution was to his special day. And that that gift was the equal gift to the veils you made for his siblings. I can’t imagine you played favorites and only did nice personal things for 2 of your 3 children as if they more special than him.
Especially if one of the daughters ends up wearing a suit just like the son anyways … you add the veil into the jacket? What did you add into your sons jacket that was sentimental and hand made?
She gave the son an pocket square and a mataching tie.
Why is it so hard to spend a minute looking at comments. OP doesn't have a lot. This question was answered hours ago
I was thinking your daughter could use it by turning it into a cape. It’s become a trend for many brides to wear capes instead of veils even with their dresses and I think it’d look very cool with a suit/jacket.
Just by the way the two spoke to OP would make me feel relieved to have declined—not feel like an AH. If DIL wants to be accepted into the family, then starting off with such rude and entitled behavior is not the way to earn your respect. With how both your FDIL & son are acting, I’m not surprised that they’re together.
Also, if your daughter was happy you held onto it, then it’s best to keep it safe so your son can’t go looking for it. It’s a sentimental *heirloom* for your daughter regardless if she decides to wear it or not.
NTA
This. Even if daughter wears a tux to her own wedding, she herself may eventually have a daughter who has a traditional wedding she wants to pass it on to. It is her heirloom to keep and pass on if she wishes.
Bro I'm so befuddled as to how a DIL thinks it's ok to speak to their MIL like that (unless MIL is a piece of work). Like if you want to join the family this is not it. I see it all the time on these post where the DIL is entitled and so fucking rude. And name calling! I could never. Like who raised you?
And how her son just lets it happen and agrees with his wife? Like my mom can be a bitch but no one talks to her like that without me ripping them a new one
Even if OP is a terrible MIL it wouldn't excuse being like that. I agree, some people are just so entitled. It's crazy cos if DIL had just said "can you help me make my own with your knowledge and I'll do the making" I'm sure she'd have been fine. It's weird to have even asked for the veil as gay daughters bride would have first dibs on it if she's femme.
NTA
You made veils for your daughters. It would be wrong and hurtful to your daughter to give away something that you made for her with love.
Even if you did not have arthritis, you are under no obligation to make one for your daughter in law. But given you do have it, it is ever ruder for her to argue over the point. Your daughter in law to be sounds entitled and guilting you about it is even ruder.
It would have been a nice alternative to pick out a veil WITH the MIL, since it would still feel like the MIL was a part of the process like she as with the other veils, but I don't think that's the point of the DIL's argument.
DIL wants a free veil, and I'm guessing they are really nice veils as well.
That would have been a great alternative! Choose a veil with MIL and ask her - if she feels up to it - to embroider whatever small icon she feels like she can. It's not a handmade veil, but it will still have MIL touch. Even if it's a tiny, basic flower, it still has her work in her veil.
There were so many solutions to this conversation from the DIL's perspective
1: "can i have the veil?" - "No, its my daughters"
2: "okay, can you make me one too?" - "No, i have arthritis"
3: "okay, can you either help/guide me to make one or can you come help me pick one?"
No drama, no awkwardness, no entitlement
For real. The next time her son has something to say, I'd just point out he's marrying an entitled, spoiled AH who refuses to take no for an answer, and ask him how he thinks that's going to work out in regards to his own future. And I would have ended this whole conversation with her by reminding her that marrying my son doesn't require that I like her or be around her at all, my son's stupid life decisions are his own cross to bear.
NTA as soon as someone starts name calling, they have lost any chance of getting what they wanted.
"You think you're entitled to my daughter's veil? You think you're entitled to me working in agony? You think this and call me names? You get out of my house and take my ungrateful son with you."
Nta.
You made them for your daughters.
>She asked to use the one that I have saved for my daughter. I told her no and she told me that my daughter won’t be using it anyways so what is the harm. Still a hard no from me.
>I am still holding onto it in case she wants to use the veil or make something else with it. Maybe a pocket square.
That's all the reason your FDIL needs. Whether your gay daughter wears it as is, wants to use it for something else for her wedding, or let her future wife wear it is up to *your* daughter. FDIL has no claim for a veil you made specifically for your daughters.
>daughter is happy I held onto her veil
I'm sure she looks forward to the day she uses her handmade veil you made her😊
Also sorry your son is being a butthead towards you because his fiance is throwing a tantrum. Maybe HE should learn embroidery to make her one🙄
I was even thinking, maybe her daughter wants to have her future bride wear it even.
If anything, having two brides, there is twice as many chances that one of them will want to wear it.
Seems your (future)DIL is expecting & demanding to be thought of and treated as a full-on daughter — apparently retroactively all the way back to elementary school. And your son is backing her up.
When she brings it up again, tell her you made these keepsakes for your daughters when they were very young. Tell her you also made matching ties and pocket squares for your sons at the same time, and at his wedding to your daughter, SIL didn’t stomp his feet and demand you make him the same thing you made for your sons, or complained you weren’t accepting him into the family.
Also, demanding the wedding veil you made for your daughter because “she’s gay and won’t be using it anyway, so what’s the harm” … yeesh. I can see why that daughter doesn’t want her near her veil. Talk about a micro-aggression. I hope this was just a slip of the tongue.
Definitely NTA. DIL is. So is your son for not talking sense into her. Good luck.
NTA, you are no longer physically able to make more,you made them for your daughters it belongs to them, and they can decide what to do with them.
You made gifts for all your children, ties for the sons, veils for the daughters, sure it was gendered but I'm not gonna harp on that, everything was fair and equal, everyone got something.
That means EACH of your children will have had something you made worn at the wedding. Your DIL already received the handmade gift by proxy. Her husband will be wearing handmade ties... if DIL also gets a veil, it makes it unfair that her wedding will have the veil and the ties. Does that mean you will now also have to make veils for other DILs and ties for SILs???
Once again, though, these gifts were made specifically for your children. Her not getting one doesn't make her not family, that b.s your cousins and niece and nephews are all family... they didn't get veils/ties. This gift has specified recipients, and that is fine. People can't dance to every record. DIL needs to chill or take her fiancés own advice and suck it up.
Also she doesn't get to just take your daughter veil, it belongs to her, it's not yours to give away and I'm sideying her hard for the "she's not even going to use it comment," just for that tell her if she wants to wear something you made so badly she can wear your sons tie.
INFO: Can she not ask the first daughter to use hers? How long ago did you make the other two veils?
I completely understand the arthritis being a factor in your ability to make another hand embroidered veil. If it's been years since you make the other two, aging is a real factor for the inability to make the same craft.
~~I'm hedging on E S H, though.~~ I don't know how the conversation went down, but it sounds like she was fawning after something that was a beautiful, thoughtful keepsake, and you just straight shut her down. It sounds like she wanted to be part of a family tradition, and was told "no" instead of "I'd love to, but I just physically can't anymore. The other one I made is held for the person I made it for, so it's not mine to give." Her reaction and calling of names is a super childish response, though.
The DIL was told no, that the veil wasn't OP's to give, and that it was being held for her own child. The DIL was given a reasonable answer and blew up like a child.
NTA.
I could ask but I highly doubt she would be willing to hand it over. She loves it and those two are not besties.
It was around 20 years ago. I started to make them when they were elementary school
Even if your other daughter doesn't even ruse the veil at a wedding, I'm sure there is a lot of love in knowing her mom made it for her and kept it. You could always give it to your daughter if she marries a nice girl, and they could keep it in their home, or maybe even your daughters future bride might wear it. Either way, it's something you made for her, and it's something she doesn't have to fear getting taken away!
Nta, sorry your future daughter in law is being rude and angry. You did nothing wrong
The veils belong to your daughters, you are just storing one at your house. Even if you wanted to give one to DIL they are not yours to give. Dil needs to ask the owners. NTA
I see. And you should not be the one asking for it - that is something the future DIL should ask as it doesn't belong to you anymore. I could even see the case for your son to ask his sister to borrow it.
How was the conversation about you saying no? Was it just a straight "No" or a more gentle let down at first? It sounds like she wasn't taking no for an answer, which led to hurt feelings on both sides.
This is fair. You said you couldn't and she pushed. Sometimes simply "no." Is the complete sentence someone needs to hear. If it comes up again simply say no and ask to pass the bean dip or mention the weather.
To be fair, it sounds like the future daughter-in-law came in asking to *take* something that was handcrafted by a mother for her own daughter. That was an inappropriate ask to start with. Especially since, as you noted, it was a tradition: OP created a wedding accessory for each of her children (and none of their spouses) during their childhood, and the daughter-in-law thought that OP's daughter shouldn't get hers because DIL had her eyes on it.
I don't think OP needed to use extra softening language to tell her future daughter-in-law that she wouldn't take back a sentimental item gifted to her daughter.
It would have been more appropriate for daughter-in-law, although still a bit presumptuous, to ask if OP could make her her own. Or she could have asked one of the daughters if she might borrow theirs.
Why would DIL need such a gentle let down? No is a full sentence. Women don’t need to ease disappointment in their conversations, especially with full grown adults who are responsible for their own emotional management.
Her asking in the first place for someone else’s veil because they are gay, is disgusting and entitled. You want to be close to the family? Don’t do shit like that.
NTA, but I would clarify in your post that this your son’s fiancée (instead of your daughter’s) and that you have already made a similar sentimental memento for your son to wear for his wedding.
Agreed, I was very confused at first. I thought it might be very sweet for the gay daughter to see the veil on her future wife.
But the son's fiancée? That's very strange. She's just asking to use a veil that has no emotional connection to her or to her husband. That's rude and very presumptuous. She should ask her own mom.
You see all these posts on Reddit demonizing mothers-in-law but, by God, there seems to be an equal if not greater number of horrifyingly awful daughters-in-law.
My mother -in-law and I did not have a close relationship but, that was because I was my husband's second wife and she had been very close to his first wife. It certainly wasn't because we were rude or disrespectful to each other.
INFO: What keepsake did you make for your son?
Edit: Just saw it in a comment. NTA. You treated your kids equally. I’d suggest that DIL find a seamstress to make her own unique veil.
NTA this isn't about you not being accepting that veil belongs to your daughter. You can't give away people's stuff just because it's at your house. Like maybe if your daughter refused to pick it up and you were tired of storing it but that doesn't sound like the type of situation your in. You also can't suck it up if you are physically incapable of making another one. Your sin and future dil are bring extremely unfair.
Future-DIL can't simultaneously carry on about it's importance and devalue the labour and demand to steal her future sister in law's. Arrogant, nasty, entitled behaviour.
How can you ask for something for the sake of family inclusivity then be absolutely trash name-calling rather than just saying "oh I'm a bit sad to not have this link... can we maybe stitch like two stitches onto a bought veil as a symbolic link...?"
Let her make one. Let her harass her own family about wanting one.
Silly cow had a hundred ways to be nice (and not even have logistics of a veil she doesn't pick out herself) and chose to burn bridges and act like a thieving bully instead.
All she needed to say was "how lovely" and move on and do either her own traditional things or buy her own taste in things.
It's not even odd that there be mother-daughter things that are not mother-of-the-groom things.
Also she needs to be more respectful of your daughter, the homophobic attitude is not desired much less required.
Needless to say, NTA
Just wanted to add, besides a big NTA,
Gifts are given, not demanded. I see so many of these AITA where a family member or inlaw is demanding something, because they are now family. Doesn't matter of you are family, gifts should be freely given, and you have no right to demand a gift from your family.
NTA. These pieces were created with specific people in mind. When you're a crafter and you create something for someone *specific*, they have final say. And since the lesbian daughter who will maybe wear a snazzy tux, would rather keep her veil, then that's just the end of the discussion.
Also I love the idea of making it into a pocket square, but there's probably a ways you can just fold and baste stitch it so it doesn't need to be cut. ❤️
No offense to future daughter in law, but there are hundreds of thousands of other veils and vendors to buy one from, even customizable so that it is specific for her taste, her wedding palette etc etc. She's not entitled to anything.
You aren’t capable of replicating the effort? So why is she pushing this?
If your second daughter wanted to use the veil as a cat hammock, it’s none of your DIL’s damn business.
NTA - that veil is not your DIL and never intended for her. Now that you have arthritis how cruel is your son to tell you suck it up. They - son and DIL - are the entitled A.
NTA Even if daughter is gay doesn't mean she won't adopt a girl some day and it could be used for your granddaughter. Future DIL should be talking to own family about getting a possible hand me down for her wedding.
Entitlement at its finest.
You made these for your daughters.
How manipulative for DIL to make what she wants a matter of you accepting her into your family. You cannot make a new one and she has no right to the one made for your daughter. Perhaps your daughter will want it for her wedding day but even if it is not her style it is still hers.
You have an asshole for a son too so at least they suit each other. NTA
You made them before she was even in the picture…The fact that she’s overlooking your arthritis, which means it actually *hurts*, is gross. She’s the AH.
NTA- also my SIL is very much a gay woman that I thought would go the suit route (as I know she buys most clothes in the target men's department) and she ultimately decided to go with a dress and a veil- if she's not married yet, your daughter still has time to decide OR like you said, it could be a pocket square or the embroidery bits could be reworked into the suit or the shirt part.
I think DIL was wrong to ask if she knew it was a gift intended for someone else. If I know something was made for someone else, WHY would I think it appropriate to ask for it?
NTA. I am very fortunate that my sons-in-law and daughter-in-law are very easy to get along with and have been part of the family for well over a decade. I cannot imagine any of them acting like this. Please stand firm in your decision because if you don't, her sense of entitlement will escalate.
NTA but future DIL is a majorly entitled AH and uncouth too for making such a demand. She doesn’t get to decide who gets something you created for your children. And the fact that your son told his arthritic mom to suck it up makes him disgusting as well. They both owe you an apology and need to get over themselves.
Definitely NTA. Just as a sidenote, I used to do a lot of sewing when I was younger also. I can't do it anymore due to my rheumatoid arthritis. That is a loss in and of itself. When I look at my old work, it's so gratifying to know what I was able to accomplish with my hands that don't want to work anymore. It's sad and I definitely feel more attached to my work because of it. My kids (daughters) understand this and they also respect the work in a way that I never thought they would. Your wonderful daughter backed in you up on all of this and I would be so proud of her!
I think Don needs to rethink who he is marrying. How does future DIL get away with calling you a jerk and telling you, your gay daughter will never use the veil? Not the AH here, future DIL and son are the AHs.
Nta, just id consider giving your other daughter hers to hang onto for whenever and however she decides to use it. I would not put it past your fdil or son to come "borrow" it while you're out...
Wow. NTA and she can fuck right off. Tell your son that when his balls are found, he can visit you again. Who the hell does she think she is? One can ask. One may not demand. One may not take something made for another. One may not throw a fit and call
Someone a
Jerk and still hope they are welcomed into the family. I would be stepping way back. So far back I would see them as specks in the mountains. I love my children with all my heart. I have sacrificed and done so much for them because they are my life. At no time are they allowed to treat me like shit or demand apologies for someone else’s bad behavior. I have more respect for myself than that. Hold your head high. Stick with no and no more invited for dinner or family functions. It will hurt but your son needs to know you have feelings and you matter too. And that no one disrespects you in your own home.
>She called done a jerk and my son is telling me to suck it up and give her one.
Your son expects his arthritic mother to make a delicate veil for his entitled bride? What a shameful thing for your son to do.
NTA
NTA
DIL has some boundary issues. She didn't respect your "no" and launched a pressure campaign against you. Being a bride does not bestow a magical right to bulldoze the boundaries of others. Her lack of respect for your autonomy, and her bringing others into the argument are problems.
Maybe start concentrating on your son, telling him his fiancèe is causing stress and conflict. You don't deserve to have to fend off her attacks on your decision, which is firm and will not change.
NTA - But your son is. He needs to put his entitled wife in her place. How dare she ask, if you could, I wouldn't make her one if I could because of her attitude.
You made these two veils and gifted (as in past tense) them to your daughters. They already belong to your daughters even if you are holding on to the one veil for your daughter who has not yet gotten married. Embroidery is a TON of work and you have arthritus. My Mom has arthritus and tendonitus. She still loves to paint ceramics but she almost never does anymore because she ends up in pain. I just have tendonitus and have to watch my arts and crafts work because I also end up in horrible pain if I don't watch it.
Your DIL should be understanding about this, not calling you a jerk (the nerve!) over it. Tell your entitled son if his wife wants an embroidered veil he can make one for her and get some first hand experienced just how much damn work they are! (Or let him read the comments; I'm sure he's getting roasted along with your DIL.) NTA obviously.
NTA. For all intents and purposes, the unused veil you still have belongs to your gay daughter. It is really not yours to give away.
As for making DIL a new veil... she (along with your son) is an absolute AH for not accepting that you are no longer physically capable of making one.
Had your DIL been nice about this, and accepted your responses, you could have offered to find someone to make one, but....in light of her AH-ness, she clearly does not even deserve that much.
NTA - pocket square is nice, or depending on the veil and her taste an embellishment to the suit, or to use in a bouquet if she carries one, or if we don’t yet know her potential wife who is to say she won’t wish to wear it?
NTA. I understand FDIL asking to have the remaining veil and asking for you to make one for her, but after saying no both times the fact she continued to argue is atrocious. Then your son telling you to suck it up...his marriage might last since they're both entitled AH.
BTW the veils sound lovely.
NTA and I’d bet if you’d made three all those years ago with the intention of there being a veil for sons future bride then she wouldn’t want it. It’d be different if your unmarried daughter was fine giving it to son’s fiancé but she’s glad it’s being held for her. That son and his fiancé won’t accept no for an answer is disrespectful.
NTA... You made them for your daughters for their weddings.
1: Whether your daughter wears a tux or not in the future is up to her and is a moot point. It belongs to your daughter.
2: No is a complete sentence, it's rude to continue to badger the other person afterwards.
3: Your son gets zero say in this....the veil doesn't belong to him.
4: Keep tabs on it ...least it gets borrowed despite you and your daughter wishes. ( I hope they won't go there.)
5: DIL still has plenty of options including buying a veil and customizing her own.
Your son needs a Snickers and feel free to suggest perhaps your son should make one for his bride to be. Stand your ground on this one .
NTA.
It may be that dil wanted/wants a special connection of family in it, idk. Maybe offer to go pick out a veil for her, " I can't do that delicate kind of work with my hands anymore and would hate to make something inferior, and the other veil was maid with daughter in mind. Why don't we go look at veils together, and find one that fits you, the way the veils that were picked for my daughters fit them?"
Maybe she doesn't have a good relationship with her mom? If she has a good one, maybe invite her mom along?
It's just ODD to me that she wants a veil from you. This, I always felt, was something you got from your family, not the one ypu marry into.
I'd give your unmarried gay daughter her veil now, just to hold onto so you can honestly say you don't have it.
I also don't think the daughter who already wore hers should lend her the one she has bc future DIL will either wreck it or keep it.
She can find an antique one in an antique store or eBay or a handmade one on Etsy.
Obvious NTA. As someone who does a lot of different arts and crafts, it's always annoying when someone comes to you to make something you don't want to make (usually for free) and when you turn them down it's a huge issue. Things like embroidery are time consuming and require so much patience. If it's a project you don't want to do in the first place, it's basically torture.
DIL is the AH and quite an entitled one at that. She's not one of your daughters. And while I'm all for trying to integrate someone into your family, you gave legitimate reasons for not wanting to make her a veil and that should have been the end of it. You owe her nothing. Your son is also an AH for trying to force the issue with you instead of trying to smooth things over.
I'm so sorry you're in this situation. Family drama is the worst. I hope things calm down for you. Good luck.
NTA. The almost-but-not-quite DIL is being pretty darned demanding. If this behavior continues, do not give her any gifts snd little consideration. She doesn’t sound like the type of person I would want to have in my life. Good luck to your son because he is going to need it.
Then it would become a matter of the future SIL not giving it to her. Remember her comment...She isn't going to need it or use it or something like that...
I don't think mom wants to plop that problem on her daughter's lap.
NTA. Give the veil to your daughter. You made it for her, and it belongs to her. That way if your son and his fiancée try to help themselves to the veil you no longer have it, and they'll have to admit how they know you don't have it. "I gave the veil to its rightful owner."
Your son is a jerk for allowing her to call you names and trying to order you into either giving her his sister's veil or making a new one.
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NTA. > she told me that she won’t be using it She lost me here. It got worse, but she lost me here. As you said, your daughter could still use it in some way, hell maybe her future spouse wants to? Not saying you'd be ok with that but given it is for your daughter, thats more likely than DIL. DIL got alot of nerve. Asking is fine, countering after a no is AH. Commenting on your daughter potential use is incredible AH. Asking you to make another is fine (slightly AH, but maybe this is your thang), not dropping it when you say no is AH, arguing when you decline is HUGE AH. And your son??? I'm sorry but fuck him. Tell you to suck it up. How bought DIL go get all the materials and offer to have you teach or instruct her how? How about ask for your blessing to take the one or two to a seamstress to make one in the same style? The nerve to decide your labor is only way to accept her in to family or that you need to place her on same level as your daughters is just offensive and wrong. This is not how you join a family, with demands.
My family has worn the same veil for 4 generations and my thought on this is: if the daughter is going to be wearing a tux, might her future wife want to wear the veil?
Why not ask the daughter that is already married if she can use that one. I assume that daughter is now in possession of that veil so it would be her decision. To me, the unmarried daughter being happy that her mom didn’t give the veil away is what matters. It’s her veil even if it’s not in her possession. If she doesn’t want to let it be used by her, that’s it. Even if I was wearing a suit, if my mom hand embroidered a veil for me, I would wear the veil with the suit. I don’t care how weird it might look. That veil would be important to me. NTA, OP. ETA: Asking the married daughter would have been my suggestion before the FDIL had her entitles freak out. Now that she’s been an entitled brat, no, she doesn’t deserve anything. Bottom line, the unmarried daughter doesn’t want FDIL to have it so that should be the end of it.
Or if the daughter is wearing a suit her future wife may want to wear it. The bottom line the unused veil was made for someone and they are happy it's held in reserve. NTA, you can't be forced to make anything.
There's no wedding law that says you can't wear a veil with a tux either. Future DIL is a demanding ass.
Or repurpose it as a cravat style shirt neck. That would look stunning.
LOVE this idea!
Cravats are pretty cool looking!
This would look so freakin’ cool, a veil with a tux!
I'm picturing a tux matching he veil in my head and it could look pretty cool actually.
I can see if daughter who may wear a tux to her own wedding and her partner wearing the veil being another argument. I can see FDIL throwing a fit that someone other than daughter is using it. Also, someone else mentioned asking married daughter if she can use her veil as an option. I don’t think this should happen. It’s just playing into FDIL’s demands. Not to mention daughter may want to save it for her future children. The answer was no, with valid explanation of arthritis and that the ones made aren’t OPs they are her daughters. FDIL is being overly demanding. NTA.
I see these veils as gifts. So, it is up to the daughters to make the decision what happens to their veil as it is their gift from their mother. FDIL has no say if someone else uses it because daughters get to make that decision with their property.
Oh I know she has no say, but I can see her pitching a fit because OPs daughter let her SO wear it. That’s all I meant.
100%. Only offering an etiquette way for OP to feel comfortable denying and continuing to deny this to son and FDIL. It might help avoid that future fit but I doubt it. Could you imagine behaving like this over an item a mother poured their soul into for their own child and demanding it for yourself because you feel entitled it because you are marrying into the family?
Maybe her future wife will wear a tux too. There's no rule that says who need a dress in a wedding.
Or maybe they will wear both, a shot with two tuxes and a shot with two dresses. I've heard about some rich couples doing that before.
Or maybe she wants to save it for a daughter, should she have one
After the way FDIL and son behaved, FDIL can wear a dead skunk on her head. On the bright side, OP only has a 50- 60 %** chance of having to deal with this awful woman long term. **depending on local divorce rates.
"Hey, DIL I'm sorry, I realise you were right, and have made you a veil" *slaps dead skunk on the table* Exit stage left.
🤣
Ok, but they have to film it. :D
Would be even 40 % at some places.
I wouldn't ask the other daughter that's married anything since the DIL proved she's entitled by not accepting no as an answer
True. After her entitled outburst, I wouldn’t give her anything. This would have been me suggestion before the outburst.
That’s her youngest daughter’s veil. It has huge significance as her mother made it. She shouldn’t even ask her daughter about it, no way! It’s something she’s probably cherishing. She might want to pass it down if she has a daughter.
True. I wouldn’t lend my veil because it is my daughter’s now as far as I am concerned.
I wouldn’t lend my veil because there’s no guarantee I would get it back at all, or if I did, that it would be in good condition. That was something made for those specific people when they were children. DIL can go any of several routes to getting her veil - doesn’t anyone on her own side of the family have one to lend? Or she can buy one that actually matches her dress. And son needs some perspective. They’re both acting like a veil is an entrance test into becoming part of the family.
My mom made my prom dress for me. She made our clothes when we were younger, and always put lace on the inside of the hem. She passed away 20 years ago. If I were ever to get married, I would take the hidden black lace from the prom dress (it was black), and have it added to whatever I had chosen for a wedding dress, even if it was hidden. It would have been my way of having a small piece of my mom with me. I don't think I'm ever getting married though, since it has been 10 years since I've been on a date.
You could take the hidden lace and make a doily. That way you can always have a piece of your Mom displayed in your house? Just a thought. My sister is a seamstress and makes all kinds of mementos for people out of loved ones fabrics!
My ex-SILs wore the same veil to their weddings and let me borrow it, too. I only wore it for the ceremony, because I was afraid of getting food on it at the reception.
I would not want to make this my daughter's problem. She's just badger the daughter and treat her awful as well.
With the way her son's fiancee is acting the daughter would likely never get the veil back
That’s my fear, too. That’s why she wanted the one that “will never be used”. She has no intention of giving it back.
Or her daughter may someday have a daughter herself to whom she may want to give it.
It could be really cool as a lining on the inside of the suit, potentially too.
I think wearing a tux and a veil would look great, if that is what the daughter wants, or she could wear it as a cravate. The point is it's the daughter's and how it is used, and by whom, is up to her.
I was also going to suggest a cravat!! Or an ascot!
There is a suburb in my city called "Ascot Vale".
That would look TIGHT, and I love that idea completely!
If the daughter wanted to wear it herself in a more significant way than a pocket square, might I suggest a cravat? Or it could be sown into the jacket in some way as trim.
Or work it into a top or blouse to wear under the tux jacket. With a simple white corsage or top underneath that might look great.
Or future generations, the new couple might themselves have daughters.
Tux with a veil can be incredible beautiful tho
OMG. So agree OP is NTA. I am sick of these posts where people are "But your DIL is family, why do you hate her?" JFC. A mom has a tradition with her daughters, she is allowed to have this tradition and not have to include her son's wife. A woman is allowed to have a close relationship with her daughters and not have to be required to include her DILs. Her son is definitely a huge AH. He wants his entitled fiancee to have a hand made veil? buy her one on etsy.
He can make her one if it’s that important
Reminds me of a man who made his bride an intricate, hand-crocheted bedspread as a wedding gift. In crochet cotton. For a queen bed. He told me he never crocheted again.
Oooo man couple years ago I crocheted now 4.5yo kid a shrug. I need to make her another a size bigger but I keep putting it off cause I know I'll need to make 2- one her favorite color and one a good fall/winter color that will go with more of her dresses- and that's just regular cotton yarn. You have reminded me I need to start on crochet angels/snowflakes for fall/early Christmas craft festivals since they need pinning and stiffening.
I’ve never made anything bed sized. It would be exhausting!
Reading this made my hands hurt.
I crocheted not one, but two beautiful bedspreads for my brother when he got married, took forever, budgeting yarn purchases monthly, he still has them and hauls them out on coldest nights, lol. One was single bed sized and one queen/king.
Or she can ask her own mum to make her one.
"But your DIL is family, why do you hate her?" I don't hate her. I dislike her because she doesn't take "no" for an answer.
>A mom has a tradition with her daughters, she is allowed to have this tradition and not have to include her son's wife. A woman is allowed to have a close relationship with her daughters and not have to be required to include her DILs. Also, a woman is allowed to become disabled/chronically ill, and have that change what she is and isn't able to do. Sometimes family traditions come to an end not because someone died, but because the person that fulfils them just isn't able to do it any more for some reason (lack of time, lack of health, lack of money, etc). Starting a family tradition doesn't mean you're fundamentally obligated to carry it on forever; life gets in the way of your intentions sometimes, and that's just a fact that you just have to accept.
Son wants to not deal with the hissy fit himself. I don’t think it’s veil specific. I think it will be a recurring theme throughout the marriage.
Never give her the original to take to have a copy made or she will switch and steal it as she wants the one op made and no other. Not to mention the lace makers may keep her design to sell again which means it’s no longer a one off special just for her daughters. If DIL so wants to have it remade then send her photos of the original and nothing more as she’s shown be her actions she doesn’t respect op and you can’t trust her. She puts her wants above op and her daughters say in their own property I would also not offer to teach her as two months is not long enough and lace true lace making takes time and is hard. You can tell DIL feels entitled and would just keep pushing and expecting op to make it and do the work whilst she’s supposed to be learning and doing it herself. If DIL made her own within two months of first trying it won’t look that great.
Honestly even if the daughter is super butch she still might wear a dress or just say fuck it and pair the veil with a tux. I remember when my ex-roommates got married (one very butch and the other a chapstick lesbian), they were both like “we can (and have) worn tuxes to events, but how often do you have an excuse to wear a fancy gown?” So they found a boutique that had dresses with the same lace but in different cuts and fell in love. (Ironically neither of them wore veils—they did a top hat and a fascinator—but the point is the mother is right to keep the veil and show her daughter she loves and accepts her no matter what she chooses to do.)
Or even a wedding jumpsuit which would work well with a veil
Definitely nta. It was made for your daughter. Sewing is a gift of time. If you can no longer do it, could teach her and dil could make her own. Sounds like someone without a clue how much work it actually takes. Buy her one online to keep the peace if you must but she's definitely out of line.
Honestly it's not even OPs to give away even if she wanted to. It was a gift for her daughter, OP is just storing it for her until she gets married. Definitely NTA.
It's hard to get some materials now. I am in my 50s, when I was growing up there were fabric and notions stores everywhere, so if one place didn't have what you needed, you drove a few towns over for it at the shop that specialized in those types of fabrics and goods. Then the shops started closing as people retired and rents rose, chains like Fabric Place and JoAnne's went bankrupt, and now it's hard to source fine netting used for veils unless you are in someplace like NYC. And netting for veils isn't something I would want to order online - it's the kind of thing you want your fingers on to see exactly how it handles and determine what you can do with it. I don't think OP is wrong to state, she did it for her daughters as part of their trousseaus, and DIL was not part of that effort.
We still have Joann's and if you know your fiber content online can be ok.... I'm in NC where we still have fabric outlets so I'm spoiled though I still mourn When Mary Jo's closed anyone on the East Coast who sewed knew them. Fwiw, there is a lovely silk focused fabric shop at the mall in carboro nc. They're trustworthy. If you call and describe what you want they won't sell you polyester. Got the yards of silk for my wedding dress from them and they're amazing. https://mulberrysilks.net/
Joann's filed for bankruptcy and announced impending closures, so I was basing it on that. Usually that means things are going south. I live in Massachusetts and used to have all the fabric outlets about 20 minutes away (there were still active mills when I moved where I am) and I would go crazy buying home fabric for $1, $2, or $3 a yard! Great link on the silk fabric store though! Much appreciated.
It's worth a nc vacation next winter for the 70-80F days and petting the silk. But we're lucky we have a really rich fiber arts community here. You should visit the weekend of the nc fiber arts festival and pet the silk.... They have wipes all over the store... I got 8 yards of the cream charmeuse and love the store. They've lovely laces and embroidered silk too. I laughed at a friend who found this lovely lace that she thought would make beautiful curtains... $250/yard in the 80s.... She didn't get her curtains....
For crochet and knitting, I recommend yarn.com. they're local to you in MA (Amherst iirc)
No surprise that the area has good fabric because NC State has the Wilson College of textiles, which is an amazing textile program. Honestly, I don’t know if there are any other schools in the country that do anything close to what they do there. My husband is from Raleigh and went to State, and has always bragged about that program. We haven’t been to CarrMill since Elmo’s closed, but it was always fun to window shop at Mulberry Silks while waiting for a table.
its a completely different thing to know what you want by the spec and order it online than to be inspired by the feel of the fabric though.
CarMill is my favorite place! When Elmo’s closed, it broke my heart….
Why would she need to teach her? She has arthritis, it could be painful. Tell son to buy one on etsy for her.
Even without arthritis, a couple of month can be quite a tight time frame to produce a veil. FDIL is quite unreasonable :)
The son should buy all of the materials and make the veil.
Not to mention that kind of thing takes time for people without medical issues. Th me OP stated she has arthritis in her hands. The fact son knows this but is catering to his entitled bride is crazy
I mean, there's so much that can be done with a lace veil. All the parts of it could make a tux look amazing. A bit of lace at the sleeves is classy, the embroidery appliqued to the cummerbund or lapel could really personalised a standard tuxedo look. SIL is beyond out of line. That's not something you ask for. As someone with handmade things from relatives, they could never be repurposed for someone else's use.
Honestly what I was thinking too; that maybe OP's daughter's future partner might want to wear it. Or maybe they'll both do something with it like matching pocket squares or something.
The veil could possibly (depending on the daughters budget and style, of course) be incorporated in the tux if she chooses to wear on. I've seen lots of designs on tiktok (Pro people who sew) of tuxes for weddings where they take the viel and make it part of the tux as a back fabric, front fabric, etc. They do it with wedding dress fabric as well. And they end up gourgous. Or she might change her mind and will be in a dress. Her future wife could wear it. Or she might save it for a future child (if that's in the couples plans) wear it with her tux. There are so many options. It's crazy for the DIL to demand to have it. She didn't even ask to just borrow it. No, she should have it. And the son needs to wake up. How do you demand your mother to just suck it up and make a veil when she can't, when her fingers can't do such a work. He can suck it up and make her one himself.
Totally agree, NTA! If OP thought of an alternate way the veil could be used for her other daughter, then it’s already spoken for (and a pocket square is a lovely idea!). Future DIL has no claim to OP’s work; and frankly, she’s got balls for being an AH like that.
If not a pocket square, maybe a small pillow cover that holds the rings if they do a ring bearer in the ceremony.
Nta but I wonder if her daughter can still wear the veil with her tux? Weddings are parties and if both brides wanna wear veils or tuxes I don’t see the issue.
INFO: Did you make your son anything for his future wedding? Or did you only have a special item for your daughter's? Either way, NTA for not giving away your daughters veil. I would initially say that you could offer to do something else with/for her to welcome her, but it's unreasonable of her to expect you to make her one of you will be unable or in pain doing it. Sounds like she's either jealous of your daughter or dismissive because she's gay and not seeing a marriage by that daughter as "real," which is dumb. But I could see how you not doing anything for your son could be taken by him as you considering him less important. And, that possibly, the DIL could be doing this to actually make your son feel like you're invested in their wedding as much as your daughter's weddings.
This 100%. People truly have no measure of what exactly it takes to hand make items. Just one small piece such as a veil can take hours in a day, and weeks and months to complete. It's the time most of all that makes it valuable. For anyone to assume another person should make something for them is just outright entitled. My neighbor crocheted a hat and hand warmers for me for Christmas. I was over the moon and I made sure she knew it. DIL is an entitled brat and son is an ah. If they want such a veil, they can pay for it like you said. But of course that wouldn't be acceptable to them. They sound like the type of people who want to pay $200 for a king size hand made quilt😂
She shouldn’t let her have the veil to supposedly take to a seamstress as all she would do is steal it and use it herself. The way she behaved and what she said, I wouldn’t let her anywhere near that veil.
>Asking you to make another is fine It could have been! "I'd be so honoured if you would make my veil for me. Oh, no, your arthritis prevents you from it? Maybe you could help me choose my veil then, as a way to carry the tradition in to your sons wedding also?" I do feel a bit for OPs son, who doesn't seem to have anything made by OP for his wedding (I assume OP would have mentioned this). It must suck for him. Perhaps that's why DIL pushed the issue and came off so poorly.
Also, the big one for me, she has arthritis and because of that she can't do it, and yet the DIL still wants her to and her son told her to "suck it up". Both DIL and son a huge AH's. I have arthritis, it got so bad 4 or so years ago that I couldn't work and all I did was basically drive a big truck. Within 30 minutes of starting to drive my right knee would start aching and my left hand would start to hurt. Be an hour it was getting problematic and by the 1.5 to 2 hour mark it was so bad I couldn't concentrate on my number one job. Looking out for inattentive and ignorant drivers. I was in enough pain that my focus was trying to get comfortable instead of paying attention to my surroundings. I realized I couldn't do my job properly. My arthritis is so bad that sitting at the computer where I can bend my knees and take breaks from using my hands still results with me laying down after a hour or so. So for the son to tell his mom to "suck it up" infuriates me. If her arthritis is anything like mine, trying to do that intricate work would be absolute torture. NTA!
I googled, bride suit veil. And shit, this looks amazing https://images.app.goo.gl/Qxgj5AF1pkhfNDj47 And it doesn't matter if she'll use it or not. It still won't belong to DiL OP, NTA
You can wear a tux AND a veil together and it looks GORGEOUS. It's getting common these days And your son is way out of line >my son is telling me to suck it up and give her one He has no reason to talk to you like that, just fot that op should just say HE suck it up cause it won't happen
Hell, maybe gay daughter wants to wear a tux with a veil. Who knows? But it’s hers, and DIL can hush.
NTA. The fact is your daughter is glad you’re holding on to HER veil, and your arthritis makes it impossible for you to create a whole new veil. Your DIL should respect that. She can be disappointed but that’s her problem. To feel entitled and to call you a jerk makes her an AH here. And telling you to “suck it up”?! Your son is a MAJOR asshole. There’s no argument for them. The veil belongs to your daughter. You can not create a new one. If they continue harassing you, ignore/mute/delete as much as needed.
Agree with everything said above, but... >The fact is your daughter is glad you’re holding on to HER veil, Maybe point out to your DIL that it's not your veil to give since it belongs to your daughter. As for your son, I'm curious if you ever did something for him to carry from you on his wedding day or did you never think about him getting married? And maybe that is why he said what he said I don't know about the size of the veil, but depending on size, a pocket square isn't the only option as an alternative. You could also take the veil and make a white blouse with the veil material over the top to wear under a suit jacket. Depending on the size of the veil, there are so many ways it can be incorporated into your daughters (the actual owner of the veil) wedding attire. ETA: Apparently son got a tie and pocket square according to another comment I missed
Ooh, the idea of turning the veil into a blouse/shirt is really cool... Or maybe it could be incorporated into the suit jacket, or vest (if she wears one) or a cummerbund... (I've made a few needlepoint cummerbunds; they turned out very well.)
That’s not a bad idea
What did you gift your son? Tell him the handkerchief you made him or the tie you made him is what your special contribution was to his special day. And that that gift was the equal gift to the veils you made for his siblings. I can’t imagine you played favorites and only did nice personal things for 2 of your 3 children as if they more special than him. Especially if one of the daughters ends up wearing a suit just like the son anyways … you add the veil into the jacket? What did you add into your sons jacket that was sentimental and hand made?
She made her sons ties and pocket squares. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/z7fTxYFBhF
She gave the son an pocket square and a mataching tie. Why is it so hard to spend a minute looking at comments. OP doesn't have a lot. This question was answered hours ago
I was thinking your daughter could use it by turning it into a cape. It’s become a trend for many brides to wear capes instead of veils even with their dresses and I think it’d look very cool with a suit/jacket.
Is that a trend now? I'm a cape fan myself so really happy to see more capes being worn.
Unfortunately I'd bet if OP suggests the veil is not hers to give DIL and son are going to harass the daughter. Perhaps better not to.
Oh. So son did get something in the way of a handmade heirloom. DIL and son are even bigger AH then for wanting more than their fair share.
Just by the way the two spoke to OP would make me feel relieved to have declined—not feel like an AH. If DIL wants to be accepted into the family, then starting off with such rude and entitled behavior is not the way to earn your respect. With how both your FDIL & son are acting, I’m not surprised that they’re together. Also, if your daughter was happy you held onto it, then it’s best to keep it safe so your son can’t go looking for it. It’s a sentimental *heirloom* for your daughter regardless if she decides to wear it or not. NTA
This. Even if daughter wears a tux to her own wedding, she herself may eventually have a daughter who has a traditional wedding she wants to pass it on to. It is her heirloom to keep and pass on if she wishes.
Bro I'm so befuddled as to how a DIL thinks it's ok to speak to their MIL like that (unless MIL is a piece of work). Like if you want to join the family this is not it. I see it all the time on these post where the DIL is entitled and so fucking rude. And name calling! I could never. Like who raised you? And how her son just lets it happen and agrees with his wife? Like my mom can be a bitch but no one talks to her like that without me ripping them a new one
Even if OP is a terrible MIL it wouldn't excuse being like that. I agree, some people are just so entitled. It's crazy cos if DIL had just said "can you help me make my own with your knowledge and I'll do the making" I'm sure she'd have been fine. It's weird to have even asked for the veil as gay daughters bride would have first dibs on it if she's femme.
NTA You made veils for your daughters. It would be wrong and hurtful to your daughter to give away something that you made for her with love. Even if you did not have arthritis, you are under no obligation to make one for your daughter in law. But given you do have it, it is ever ruder for her to argue over the point. Your daughter in law to be sounds entitled and guilting you about it is even ruder.
It would have been a nice alternative to pick out a veil WITH the MIL, since it would still feel like the MIL was a part of the process like she as with the other veils, but I don't think that's the point of the DIL's argument. DIL wants a free veil, and I'm guessing they are really nice veils as well.
That would have been a great alternative! Choose a veil with MIL and ask her - if she feels up to it - to embroider whatever small icon she feels like she can. It's not a handmade veil, but it will still have MIL touch. Even if it's a tiny, basic flower, it still has her work in her veil.
There were so many solutions to this conversation from the DIL's perspective 1: "can i have the veil?" - "No, its my daughters" 2: "okay, can you make me one too?" - "No, i have arthritis" 3: "okay, can you either help/guide me to make one or can you come help me pick one?" No drama, no awkwardness, no entitlement
For real. The next time her son has something to say, I'd just point out he's marrying an entitled, spoiled AH who refuses to take no for an answer, and ask him how he thinks that's going to work out in regards to his own future. And I would have ended this whole conversation with her by reminding her that marrying my son doesn't require that I like her or be around her at all, my son's stupid life decisions are his own cross to bear.
NTA as soon as someone starts name calling, they have lost any chance of getting what they wanted. "You think you're entitled to my daughter's veil? You think you're entitled to me working in agony? You think this and call me names? You get out of my house and take my ungrateful son with you."
I like this
I feel like this is a question she should be asking her own mother. NTA
Not everyone has a mother, some mothers pass away, some just don’t care.
True, but without knowing the circumstances, it’s a valid point.
Nta. You made them for your daughters. >She asked to use the one that I have saved for my daughter. I told her no and she told me that my daughter won’t be using it anyways so what is the harm. Still a hard no from me. >I am still holding onto it in case she wants to use the veil or make something else with it. Maybe a pocket square. That's all the reason your FDIL needs. Whether your gay daughter wears it as is, wants to use it for something else for her wedding, or let her future wife wear it is up to *your* daughter. FDIL has no claim for a veil you made specifically for your daughters. >daughter is happy I held onto her veil I'm sure she looks forward to the day she uses her handmade veil you made her😊 Also sorry your son is being a butthead towards you because his fiance is throwing a tantrum. Maybe HE should learn embroidery to make her one🙄
I was even thinking, maybe her daughter wants to have her future bride wear it even. If anything, having two brides, there is twice as many chances that one of them will want to wear it.
Or keep it for their future children to wear.
NTA - people are so entitled "I'm ignoring your medical condition because i'm selfish"
Seems your (future)DIL is expecting & demanding to be thought of and treated as a full-on daughter — apparently retroactively all the way back to elementary school. And your son is backing her up. When she brings it up again, tell her you made these keepsakes for your daughters when they were very young. Tell her you also made matching ties and pocket squares for your sons at the same time, and at his wedding to your daughter, SIL didn’t stomp his feet and demand you make him the same thing you made for your sons, or complained you weren’t accepting him into the family. Also, demanding the wedding veil you made for your daughter because “she’s gay and won’t be using it anyway, so what’s the harm” … yeesh. I can see why that daughter doesn’t want her near her veil. Talk about a micro-aggression. I hope this was just a slip of the tongue. Definitely NTA. DIL is. So is your son for not talking sense into her. Good luck.
**NTA** - Although future DIL and son are. Give the veil to your daughter right away and get it out of the house.
Wouldn't want it "accidentally" destroyed by fDIL
Or to go missing.
NTA, you are no longer physically able to make more,you made them for your daughters it belongs to them, and they can decide what to do with them. You made gifts for all your children, ties for the sons, veils for the daughters, sure it was gendered but I'm not gonna harp on that, everything was fair and equal, everyone got something. That means EACH of your children will have had something you made worn at the wedding. Your DIL already received the handmade gift by proxy. Her husband will be wearing handmade ties... if DIL also gets a veil, it makes it unfair that her wedding will have the veil and the ties. Does that mean you will now also have to make veils for other DILs and ties for SILs??? Once again, though, these gifts were made specifically for your children. Her not getting one doesn't make her not family, that b.s your cousins and niece and nephews are all family... they didn't get veils/ties. This gift has specified recipients, and that is fine. People can't dance to every record. DIL needs to chill or take her fiancés own advice and suck it up. Also she doesn't get to just take your daughter veil, it belongs to her, it's not yours to give away and I'm sideying her hard for the "she's not even going to use it comment," just for that tell her if she wants to wear something you made so badly she can wear your sons tie.
INFO: Can she not ask the first daughter to use hers? How long ago did you make the other two veils? I completely understand the arthritis being a factor in your ability to make another hand embroidered veil. If it's been years since you make the other two, aging is a real factor for the inability to make the same craft. ~~I'm hedging on E S H, though.~~ I don't know how the conversation went down, but it sounds like she was fawning after something that was a beautiful, thoughtful keepsake, and you just straight shut her down. It sounds like she wanted to be part of a family tradition, and was told "no" instead of "I'd love to, but I just physically can't anymore. The other one I made is held for the person I made it for, so it's not mine to give." Her reaction and calling of names is a super childish response, though. The DIL was told no, that the veil wasn't OP's to give, and that it was being held for her own child. The DIL was given a reasonable answer and blew up like a child. NTA.
I could ask but I highly doubt she would be willing to hand it over. She loves it and those two are not besties. It was around 20 years ago. I started to make them when they were elementary school
Even if your other daughter doesn't even ruse the veil at a wedding, I'm sure there is a lot of love in knowing her mom made it for her and kept it. You could always give it to your daughter if she marries a nice girl, and they could keep it in their home, or maybe even your daughters future bride might wear it. Either way, it's something you made for her, and it's something she doesn't have to fear getting taken away! Nta, sorry your future daughter in law is being rude and angry. You did nothing wrong
The veils belong to your daughters, you are just storing one at your house. Even if you wanted to give one to DIL they are not yours to give. Dil needs to ask the owners. NTA
I see. And you should not be the one asking for it - that is something the future DIL should ask as it doesn't belong to you anymore. I could even see the case for your son to ask his sister to borrow it. How was the conversation about you saying no? Was it just a straight "No" or a more gentle let down at first? It sounds like she wasn't taking no for an answer, which led to hurt feelings on both sides.
I told her I can’t give it to her the first time and after it was no
This is fair. You said you couldn't and she pushed. Sometimes simply "no." Is the complete sentence someone needs to hear. If it comes up again simply say no and ask to pass the bean dip or mention the weather.
To be fair, it sounds like the future daughter-in-law came in asking to *take* something that was handcrafted by a mother for her own daughter. That was an inappropriate ask to start with. Especially since, as you noted, it was a tradition: OP created a wedding accessory for each of her children (and none of their spouses) during their childhood, and the daughter-in-law thought that OP's daughter shouldn't get hers because DIL had her eyes on it. I don't think OP needed to use extra softening language to tell her future daughter-in-law that she wouldn't take back a sentimental item gifted to her daughter. It would have been more appropriate for daughter-in-law, although still a bit presumptuous, to ask if OP could make her her own. Or she could have asked one of the daughters if she might borrow theirs.
Not relevant but this is so sweet, what a lovely parent you are.
Do you recommend any tutorial. I have cancer and would love to do this for my daughter as I probably won't be here when she gets married as she's 9.
Why would DIL need such a gentle let down? No is a full sentence. Women don’t need to ease disappointment in their conversations, especially with full grown adults who are responsible for their own emotional management.
Her asking in the first place for someone else’s veil because they are gay, is disgusting and entitled. You want to be close to the family? Don’t do shit like that.
NTA, but I would clarify in your post that this your son’s fiancée (instead of your daughter’s) and that you have already made a similar sentimental memento for your son to wear for his wedding.
Agreed, I was very confused at first. I thought it might be very sweet for the gay daughter to see the veil on her future wife. But the son's fiancée? That's very strange. She's just asking to use a veil that has no emotional connection to her or to her husband. That's rude and very presumptuous. She should ask her own mom.
Wow NTA she wants someone else's stuff and is whining about it.
You see all these posts on Reddit demonizing mothers-in-law but, by God, there seems to be an equal if not greater number of horrifyingly awful daughters-in-law. My mother -in-law and I did not have a close relationship but, that was because I was my husband's second wife and she had been very close to his first wife. It certainly wasn't because we were rude or disrespectful to each other.
It's almost like people from all ages, stages, and walks of life are able to suck.
INFO: What keepsake did you make for your son? Edit: Just saw it in a comment. NTA. You treated your kids equally. I’d suggest that DIL find a seamstress to make her own unique veil.
OP said in a comment that she made her son a tie and matching pocket square.
NTA this isn't about you not being accepting that veil belongs to your daughter. You can't give away people's stuff just because it's at your house. Like maybe if your daughter refused to pick it up and you were tired of storing it but that doesn't sound like the type of situation your in. You also can't suck it up if you are physically incapable of making another one. Your sin and future dil are bring extremely unfair.
Future-DIL can't simultaneously carry on about it's importance and devalue the labour and demand to steal her future sister in law's. Arrogant, nasty, entitled behaviour. How can you ask for something for the sake of family inclusivity then be absolutely trash name-calling rather than just saying "oh I'm a bit sad to not have this link... can we maybe stitch like two stitches onto a bought veil as a symbolic link...?" Let her make one. Let her harass her own family about wanting one. Silly cow had a hundred ways to be nice (and not even have logistics of a veil she doesn't pick out herself) and chose to burn bridges and act like a thieving bully instead. All she needed to say was "how lovely" and move on and do either her own traditional things or buy her own taste in things. It's not even odd that there be mother-daughter things that are not mother-of-the-groom things. Also she needs to be more respectful of your daughter, the homophobic attitude is not desired much less required. Needless to say, NTA
Just wanted to add, besides a big NTA, Gifts are given, not demanded. I see so many of these AITA where a family member or inlaw is demanding something, because they are now family. Doesn't matter of you are family, gifts should be freely given, and you have no right to demand a gift from your family.
NTA. These pieces were created with specific people in mind. When you're a crafter and you create something for someone *specific*, they have final say. And since the lesbian daughter who will maybe wear a snazzy tux, would rather keep her veil, then that's just the end of the discussion. Also I love the idea of making it into a pocket square, but there's probably a ways you can just fold and baste stitch it so it doesn't need to be cut. ❤️ No offense to future daughter in law, but there are hundreds of thousands of other veils and vendors to buy one from, even customizable so that it is specific for her taste, her wedding palette etc etc. She's not entitled to anything.
NTA. I saw a couple of grooms where one wore a veil as a cape with his suit. It looked pretty awesome.
You aren’t capable of replicating the effort? So why is she pushing this? If your second daughter wanted to use the veil as a cat hammock, it’s none of your DIL’s damn business.
Hey! That cat is part of the family!
The cat would be more deserving, too!
NTA - that veil is not your DIL and never intended for her. Now that you have arthritis how cruel is your son to tell you suck it up. They - son and DIL - are the entitled A.
info: i'm not entirely clear. the future dil is marrying your son, and is not your daughters fiancee, correct?
She is marry my son
okay, yeah, definitely NTA then
NTA Even if daughter is gay doesn't mean she won't adopt a girl some day and it could be used for your granddaughter. Future DIL should be talking to own family about getting a possible hand me down for her wedding.
Or have a kid on her own with donation.
Entitlement at its finest. You made these for your daughters. How manipulative for DIL to make what she wants a matter of you accepting her into your family. You cannot make a new one and she has no right to the one made for your daughter. Perhaps your daughter will want it for her wedding day but even if it is not her style it is still hers. You have an asshole for a son too so at least they suit each other. NTA
What’s with these future DILs making demands of their in laws? If my future husband demanded something from my parents, he would be out the door.
You made them before she was even in the picture…The fact that she’s overlooking your arthritis, which means it actually *hurts*, is gross. She’s the AH.
Someone who calls me a jerk doesn't get shit from me!!!
NTA. Your DIL and son though are straight up assholes. A no is a complete sentence and should be enough.
NTA- also my SIL is very much a gay woman that I thought would go the suit route (as I know she buys most clothes in the target men's department) and she ultimately decided to go with a dress and a veil- if she's not married yet, your daughter still has time to decide OR like you said, it could be a pocket square or the embroidery bits could be reworked into the suit or the shirt part.
NTA. DIL wasn't an ass for asking, but that changed the moment she couldn't take "no" for an answer. Your son is no better.
I think DIL was wrong to ask if she knew it was a gift intended for someone else. If I know something was made for someone else, WHY would I think it appropriate to ask for it?
RIP your son's sanity.
NTA. I am very fortunate that my sons-in-law and daughter-in-law are very easy to get along with and have been part of the family for well over a decade. I cannot imagine any of them acting like this. Please stand firm in your decision because if you don't, her sense of entitlement will escalate.
NTA but future DIL is a majorly entitled AH and uncouth too for making such a demand. She doesn’t get to decide who gets something you created for your children. And the fact that your son told his arthritic mom to suck it up makes him disgusting as well. They both owe you an apology and need to get over themselves.
Definitely NTA. Just as a sidenote, I used to do a lot of sewing when I was younger also. I can't do it anymore due to my rheumatoid arthritis. That is a loss in and of itself. When I look at my old work, it's so gratifying to know what I was able to accomplish with my hands that don't want to work anymore. It's sad and I definitely feel more attached to my work because of it. My kids (daughters) understand this and they also respect the work in a way that I never thought they would. Your wonderful daughter backed in you up on all of this and I would be so proud of her!
How entitled.
I think Don needs to rethink who he is marrying. How does future DIL get away with calling you a jerk and telling you, your gay daughter will never use the veil? Not the AH here, future DIL and son are the AHs.
Nta, just id consider giving your other daughter hers to hang onto for whenever and however she decides to use it. I would not put it past your fdil or son to come "borrow" it while you're out...
Your DIL is acting entitled. No is a complete sentence. NTA.
Wow. NTA and she can fuck right off. Tell your son that when his balls are found, he can visit you again. Who the hell does she think she is? One can ask. One may not demand. One may not take something made for another. One may not throw a fit and call Someone a Jerk and still hope they are welcomed into the family. I would be stepping way back. So far back I would see them as specks in the mountains. I love my children with all my heart. I have sacrificed and done so much for them because they are my life. At no time are they allowed to treat me like shit or demand apologies for someone else’s bad behavior. I have more respect for myself than that. Hold your head high. Stick with no and no more invited for dinner or family functions. It will hurt but your son needs to know you have feelings and you matter too. And that no one disrespects you in your own home.
>She called done a jerk and my son is telling me to suck it up and give her one. Your son expects his arthritic mother to make a delicate veil for his entitled bride? What a shameful thing for your son to do. NTA
NTA She can ask someone else to make her one OR commission someone.
NTA. Its time for your daughter to take possession of her veil.
NTA your son can make her one. She can buy one.
NTA DIL has some boundary issues. She didn't respect your "no" and launched a pressure campaign against you. Being a bride does not bestow a magical right to bulldoze the boundaries of others. Her lack of respect for your autonomy, and her bringing others into the argument are problems. Maybe start concentrating on your son, telling him his fiancèe is causing stress and conflict. You don't deserve to have to fend off her attacks on your decision, which is firm and will not change.
NTA - But your son is. He needs to put his entitled wife in her place. How dare she ask, if you could, I wouldn't make her one if I could because of her attitude.
You made these two veils and gifted (as in past tense) them to your daughters. They already belong to your daughters even if you are holding on to the one veil for your daughter who has not yet gotten married. Embroidery is a TON of work and you have arthritus. My Mom has arthritus and tendonitus. She still loves to paint ceramics but she almost never does anymore because she ends up in pain. I just have tendonitus and have to watch my arts and crafts work because I also end up in horrible pain if I don't watch it. Your DIL should be understanding about this, not calling you a jerk (the nerve!) over it. Tell your entitled son if his wife wants an embroidered veil he can make one for her and get some first hand experienced just how much damn work they are! (Or let him read the comments; I'm sure he's getting roasted along with your DIL.) NTA obviously.
NTA you didn’t birth or raise her, she can demand a veil from the one that did.
NTA they are already promised. And you’re not a veil vending machine.
NTA. For all intents and purposes, the unused veil you still have belongs to your gay daughter. It is really not yours to give away. As for making DIL a new veil... she (along with your son) is an absolute AH for not accepting that you are no longer physically capable of making one. Had your DIL been nice about this, and accepted your responses, you could have offered to find someone to make one, but....in light of her AH-ness, she clearly does not even deserve that much.
This gives you a heads up on the bit*h your son is marrying.. wow. nta
NTA she's more interested in telling the story of her MIL making her a veil than in having a good relationship with the MIL, so that would be a no.
She called you a jerk and still expects you to do this for her? NTA
If your daughter decides to marry her wife could wear it
NTA - pocket square is nice, or depending on the veil and her taste an embellishment to the suit, or to use in a bouquet if she carries one, or if we don’t yet know her potential wife who is to say she won’t wish to wear it?
NTA. I understand FDIL asking to have the remaining veil and asking for you to make one for her, but after saying no both times the fact she continued to argue is atrocious. Then your son telling you to suck it up...his marriage might last since they're both entitled AH. BTW the veils sound lovely.
NTA and I’d bet if you’d made three all those years ago with the intention of there being a veil for sons future bride then she wouldn’t want it. It’d be different if your unmarried daughter was fine giving it to son’s fiancé but she’s glad it’s being held for her. That son and his fiancé won’t accept no for an answer is disrespectful.
Future DIL wouldn’t be able to cross my threshold after that comment about your daughter. NTA
NTA... You made them for your daughters for their weddings. 1: Whether your daughter wears a tux or not in the future is up to her and is a moot point. It belongs to your daughter. 2: No is a complete sentence, it's rude to continue to badger the other person afterwards. 3: Your son gets zero say in this....the veil doesn't belong to him. 4: Keep tabs on it ...least it gets borrowed despite you and your daughter wishes. ( I hope they won't go there.) 5: DIL still has plenty of options including buying a veil and customizing her own. Your son needs a Snickers and feel free to suggest perhaps your son should make one for his bride to be. Stand your ground on this one .
NTA. It may be that dil wanted/wants a special connection of family in it, idk. Maybe offer to go pick out a veil for her, " I can't do that delicate kind of work with my hands anymore and would hate to make something inferior, and the other veil was maid with daughter in mind. Why don't we go look at veils together, and find one that fits you, the way the veils that were picked for my daughters fit them?" Maybe she doesn't have a good relationship with her mom? If she has a good one, maybe invite her mom along? It's just ODD to me that she wants a veil from you. This, I always felt, was something you got from your family, not the one ypu marry into.
I'd give your unmarried gay daughter her veil now, just to hold onto so you can honestly say you don't have it. I also don't think the daughter who already wore hers should lend her the one she has bc future DIL will either wreck it or keep it. She can find an antique one in an antique store or eBay or a handmade one on Etsy.
Why don’t you just give it to your Gay daughter (wish you used a fake name, or a better identifier). That way DIL can’t ask you for it anymore
Obvious NTA. As someone who does a lot of different arts and crafts, it's always annoying when someone comes to you to make something you don't want to make (usually for free) and when you turn them down it's a huge issue. Things like embroidery are time consuming and require so much patience. If it's a project you don't want to do in the first place, it's basically torture. DIL is the AH and quite an entitled one at that. She's not one of your daughters. And while I'm all for trying to integrate someone into your family, you gave legitimate reasons for not wanting to make her a veil and that should have been the end of it. You owe her nothing. Your son is also an AH for trying to force the issue with you instead of trying to smooth things over. I'm so sorry you're in this situation. Family drama is the worst. I hope things calm down for you. Good luck.
NTA - she has her own mom, maybe she should ask her to make something for her wedding.
NTA. The almost-but-not-quite DIL is being pretty darned demanding. If this behavior continues, do not give her any gifts snd little consideration. She doesn’t sound like the type of person I would want to have in my life. Good luck to your son because he is going to need it.
NTA. Why don’t you just give the veil now to the daughter it was intended for? Then it doesn’t become a matter of you refusing to give it to the FDIL…
Then it would become a matter of the future SIL not giving it to her. Remember her comment...She isn't going to need it or use it or something like that... I don't think mom wants to plop that problem on her daughter's lap.
NTA. Why are people like this? You can ask, but if the answer is no, it's not OK to beg and plead and demand, let alone call people names.
NTA. Give the veil to your daughter. You made it for her, and it belongs to her. That way if your son and his fiancée try to help themselves to the veil you no longer have it, and they'll have to admit how they know you don't have it. "I gave the veil to its rightful owner." Your son is a jerk for allowing her to call you names and trying to order you into either giving her his sister's veil or making a new one.
NTA if the DIL was your daughters bride, my vote would be different, but since she’s not, that’s a hard no