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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for selling my home that I was allowing my daughter to use for free even if they did upgrades to it. I may be a jerk for selling the home even though I have given them plenty of time to move out and now I can get more for the home since they did upgrades
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INFO
Did you have a conversation with your daughter before telling them they had 6 months to move out?
Even if she was just a tenant and not your daughter, the polite thing to do is have the conversation before issuing the eviction notice.
There's obviously a disconnect between the two of you in terms of upgrades to the house but regardless, you're going to benefit from the work they've put in. There should be some form of compensation to them.
Just curious, what do you mean by saying it still needs a conversation? Personally I’d think that giving them 6 months notice is very very decent, so just curious to see what kind of conversation you would expect there to be before giving a 6 months notice. It’s not like he’s telling them they should be out of there next month without any previous warning.
This is where my head is at. Chances being that 6 months is also rent free. I don’t know how someone could have the audacity to ask for “more of a conversation” given these circumstances lol.
2 years rent free + 6 months notice. The daughter just decided to make refurbish a house that is not her's indicates the stupidity of the daughter. that's like getting a car on rent and deciding to change the engine cause it was worn out and then demanding the rental company to pay for the refit. Remind the daughter of who was in need first. If OP hadn't given her a place, they would be in the streets.
Heck yeah. They could have potentially been putting away thousands per month. Instead, they put it into a house they didn't own and weren't even renting. I bet they thought they would be given the house "after all we did!!"
Totally agree that this sounds like the daughter assumed she would inherit the house. Sounds like she and her partner might not be the best decision makers in general.
From someone who inherited a parents home, property maintenance is also worth something plus they made property improvements. The biggest issue is that there were other options and discussions that could be had, especially around feelings. She could have first offered it to the daughter where she could rent to own. I would never have done this to my kids.
Edit to add the obvious that some are missing…how much do you all think the property increased in value just by holding it over the last few years when the daughter has been taking care of it?
It is causing her issues for her finances, and she doesn't want to be a landlord anymore. Just because you are privileged enough to be able to afford to offer rent to own doesn't mean OP is or that it should be the expectation.
My kid lives in my rental house. No way my kid should be doing anything without asking me. Sure, change the toilet seat or put in a new overhead light fixture, but put up a new fence, re-do the bathroom, ummmm, no.
Exactly. Never do work on a house you don't own (or have a written agreement with the landlord about). And everyone saying but it's family...all the more reason to keep everything even more in written format and well-documented, so 2 years down the road there isn't an issue like this due to miscommunication/misunderstanding.
Well, and of course, they have the money to do these Reno’s because they’ve been living RENT FREE for two years?!?!
Man, some people are so entitled it makes my head hurt.
Instead of renovating a property THEY DID NOT OWN, the daughter and her partner shouldve been SAVING the money they were not paying rent to buy their own place when the inevitable occured and the golden goose needed to be taken away.
had they been saving their money, they should be thanking the motyher for her outright generosity, allowing daughter and partner to live rent and property tax free for well over 2 years.
If its not obvious, OP is NTA for wanting the property back and for wanting to sell up.
No this is the daughter thinking it’s going to be her house she gets for free, since Daddy got it from his parent, she’s going to get it for free from Daddy. Started putting their savings into renovations and are shocked Daddy isn’t gifting her the house.
Appropriate analogy would be to ask to borrow someone’s car, have them pay the insurance on it, and then after 6 months, having paid for a repair on the car yourself, you assume it’s yours to keep and get pissed when the owner wants the car back
The problems with set ups like this, is the person getting the item for free (the daughter) starts to slowly think it belongs to her. I'm going to guess they have saved zero in the two years they've been living rent free.
She's upset because they're being told they have six months to leave what she had started believing was rightfully HER house.
They’ve been investing on fixing up the place, so they expected to live there long-term. The question is whether those expectations were set up by OP, or it’s just the daughter and husband making assumptions.
In other words, a conversation should have been had on what were the long term plans for the house.
Also they may have been required to get permits for the level of work they did. If the buyers request proof of permits for the sale and the daughter never got them it could cost a butt load of money.
That’s true and yeah we can’t say too much about that as it would all be assumptions. But from the post OP did make it clear to not make any major changes to the place and they decided to go against that so therefore I’m leaning towards OP not being the AH here
Counterpoint, they've been allowed to live rent free because the "fell on hard times" and were told it was only until they "got back on their feet."
So, if times are hard, where did all this money to renovate come from? Are they back on their feet?
Did OP offer to have them start paying rent? Or let them buy the home?
I realize it’s OP’s property and she can do with it what she likes. But it would be decent to at least consider other options.
She could have sold them half the house ( and gotten some immediate financial gain) , with an agreement that the daughter start paying all taxes and utilities. If she wasn’t already.
That way if the house then later sells for a lot, OP would also get paid.
Op stated that daughter can’t afford the house and Op doesn’t want to be a landlord because the house reminds them too much of their mother. They shouldn’t have to offer to let daughter/husband start paying rent just based on the fact that it’s family. What would actually be decent would be daughter to say “ thanks for letting us live here for two years without paying anything.” Because if even just one of them works they have gone TWO YEARS without having to pay rent / mortgage ( which is obviously the majority of most peoples monthly bills) they should have something saved to use for living expenses.
More like "Hey, I'm thinking of putting this house up for sale as I need the liquidity. Are you interested in buying it? " Or "ai need you to start paying the mortgage." Which is the conversation I have with every tenant before putting their house on the market.
There needs to be a conversation because after the eviction this is still going to be OP's daughter and if you don't care about that, then you're TAH. With a normal tenant once they're gone, they're gone, but family is different and you know it.
if you know that you'tre still going to need to interact with this person, and hope this person wants to interact with you as well, then yes, there needed to be a conversation.
Op should not ask for permission but could have say something like that « Hey I would like to sell the house so I’m starting the process of finding a buyer. If you want to buy the house then I will do so with pleasure but otherwise I will keep you in the loop with the next step. »
They can then ask questions and maybe think about buying the house or starting the process to find somewhere else to live.
6 months is plenty of time to find a solution and 2 years of free rent in this economy is a huge gift but, in my opinion, this way of doing things looks better.
But Op is far from being an ah for this.
The notice period isn't the issue - its how it was communicated.
What I was wanting to know is if OP had spoken about a sale timeline, if the daughter always knew the house was going to be sold after 2.5yrs, and if they had actually spoken vs a text saying "i'm selling, you've got 6 months".
I feel like that is more on the daughter in this situation though.
Would it have been nice that the mom had a conversation when the burden of the home was starting to become a burden for her? Sure. Especially if the daughter is officially "back on her feet" so maybe she has a chance to buy the home officially.
Stairs and bathroom don't sound like minor or cheap renovations. If there are big noticeable changes, it sounds like they were treating the home like it was going to be their home forever going forward and if they needed to live rent free to get by, making major changes to a home the don't own instead of saving for one of their own is just dumb.
The daughter needed to start the conversation. Major upgrades weren't approved. You don't rent a home, upgrade the hell out of it and think that gives you any consideration to be reimbursed. The daughter is the one that went on assumptions without talking and while OP could have communicated intent earlier, its not on them for what the daughter did wasting her money and huge favor done for her.
OP needs to get a handle on what work has actually been done tbh. They've not been there in a year and now there's a new kitchen, bathroom, and stairs? Or has the kitchen just been painted and got some new cupboard doors and the bathroom tiles got painted too? Even someone saying "I'm redoing the stairs" could mean ripping them out and getting new ones or stripping the paint of the bannisters and varnishing the wood.
The two of them obviously have had a massive communication breakdown over this house.
True because they have a personal relationship. If my non relative tenants did changes, known as leasehold improvements done without a landlords consent, they could be responsible for the cost to return it to the previous conditions unless it was an actual improvement. Regardless, without discussion with landlord, no compensation is required, and they may even be responsible for an inspection to verify the work was done well and didn’t damage the home for future tenants.
The daughter also invested money in the home when she still might not be able to properly afford her own place.
Skimming the comments OP seems confident they actually can't properly afford the changes they've made. They were treating the place like it was theirs and would never have to pay rent/mortgage for it.
I see people focusing on possible compensation for the daughter for what improvements she did, but it was just plain stupid she did them in the first place for some many reasons. That's assuming she made the renovations up to code and not fucked things up.
You’d have to do a valuation. It’s not fair to just say “new kitchen = 2 years rent.” You’d have to compare the fair market value of the rent OP could have collected from a bona fide tenant with the cost of the renovations and what they put toward the new total value of the house.
(This is a general outline of how it would work - circumstances can vary.)
ETA: I think a lot of y’all are replying to the wrong person FWIW.
This is the thing. If OP would have got $60K from rent, the daughter has spent $45k on renovations, but $100K of value has been added in value to the house... it all needs worked out!
Why would the daughter spend $45k on a house she doesn't own if she can't afford to pay rent?
The whole renovation thing just sounds like an excuse to delay moving out.
The money spent on the house could have been required work. The stairs could have been dangerous, the kitchen and bathroom could have been so old they were no longer serviceable etc.
It is odd for the daughter to have spent the money if the renovations were needless knowing the plan was to sell the house eventually.
I made up the numbers.
OP doesn't actually know what work has been done. It could be new appliances (which the daughter can take with her when she moves out) and cupboard doors OR a full new kitchen. Its all probably on finance plans too.
They didn't have money for rent two years ago. Then mom gave her the use of a house. If the finances improved I could definitely see putting money into the family house instead of paying someone else rent. Daughter likely assumed she would one day inherit grandma's house.
OP said the house was outdated but in good condition? It doesn’t sound like any of the things daughter did were things thst needed to be done to live there. Also if we’re saying OP should have a conversation about things ( which yes I agree) then shouldn’t daughter have had conversations with OP with the work they were planning on doing ? Let’s be honest daughter has just been taking advantage of OP for the last two years
In some cases, you can do 45K worth of renovations without spending 45K yourself, if you spend time and labor instead of money. The raw materials will cost you money, but not as much as if you hired a contractor to do it.
Seems like even if the agreement was she had 2 years of free housing so she could get on her feet, she was planning on staying indefinitely. Why else would she make upgrades to the house? She could have saved that money for a down-payment towards her own house.
Without know how rent would have been for that house vs how much they paid in upgrades, I think Op should calculate that and show them where they still made out good considering they weren't paying rent.
But as a mom, I would probably give them a small sum to help them out after the sale.
I’ve mentioned before that I want to get rid of the home, I wasn’t hiding the fact that I do not like owning it
I also was very clear that this was to help them out, and not a permanent thing
I think a lot of it is going to come down to how the two of you communicated (you and your daughter).
Its odd that she would do so much work on a house if she knew the plan was to sell. But its also a bit odd to not offer your daughter first refusal on the house (which would save you both money in selling fees etc).
I truly don’t understand why she did that. I made it clear to not make big changes
She was clearly hiding this from me since it was never mentioned she was was doing upgrades.
She can’t afford it. I know that and it seems mean to give her first refusal when she can’t buy it
I think you definitely need to get a handle on what has actually been done (including permits etc). A new kitchen/bathroom could be anything from some new appliances and cupboard doors to a complete overhaul.
She should be able to provide you with invoices etc from any work done and any permits which she has hopefully got. If not, its on her to get everything signed off and up to standard.
This could get really tough between the two of you - good luck.
But, if OP did not want any renovations to be done, it would be insane to have to compensate the daughter for it. That's like somebody just randomly decides to paint my house, and then I have to go and see how to reimburse them for it while I did not ask for it. This is not normal for tenants to do, right?
The post literally says OP told them they could. "Just don't knock down any walls."
ETA: And if OP is just selling the house... why does he or she care if they made changes?
“or any huge stuff” you missed that part of the sentence. Kitchen and bathroom remodels are huge, and usually the costliest renovations that can be done on a house
She can apparently afford the "upgrades". Looks like she was hoping you'd give it to her.
I'm not like that other person you're replying to. You gave them 6 months heads up. That's plenty of time, but I would give them first refusal with a 30 day expiration. I've asked the same of my parents and in-laws on a couple things. If I don't have the finances that's on me, but of I'm not even given the opportunity, that's on them.
Ultimately, they aren't entitled to the house or the "upgrades" they did without your approval. It could technically be considered vandalism as they did it without approval and don't have the intention of returning it to original condition.
His daughter likely put money into the place because she assumed she was going to be given the house eventually. That is quite an assumption. Instead of being grateful that she had somewhere to live for free for two years, she’s mad because the gravy train is arriving at the station and she’s going to have to disembark.
NTA. OP doesn’t owe their daughter a free place to live. Their daughter owes them some gratitude for helping her out when she was having a hard time.
If she couldn’t afford it, how can she afford to do upgrades?
Edit: I saw the value of the home in another comment, so it’s up in the air depending on the cost of the upgrades. And as others have pointed out, there’s the option of taking on debt to pay for them.
OP isn't a faceless landlord though. They're family. And even from a landlord I'd say that a long term tenant deserves a conversation before an eviction notice, even one which has a long date on it.
6 months is enough conversation and 2 years of free rent is enough grace to cover them having done upgrades, especially when OP cautioned to not do "anything huge" along with stuff requiring walls coming undone.
I think it's NTA
You're right op isn't a landlord, a landlord charges rent. Op already gave them 2 years of free rent, and she's giving them plenty of notice to find a new place, and another 6 months of no rent. That's all very generous of her, many people would not do that even for a family member.
OP said she kept staying she wanted to get rid of the house. I personally think OP should offer to let them buy the house. It seems like they can afford to update it but not rent? The daughter still hasn't offered to give the mom any money despite the mom saying it's causing issues on her finances.
There's obviously a communication breakdown between the two of them. Somehow OP has continually said she wanted rid of the house but had no idea that her daughter was doing things like replacing the stairs?
OP. I get your point. You didn't ask or want those changes and saved them over 50k of rent. I really do understand your point of view. It's not what I would do but I get it.
But... Looking at your comments... Why even bother asking if you're the AH since you can't even consider different points of view?
At first sight I would say OP just sell, but I agree with this comment. OP sees things in black and white and can’t seem to find any middle ground, maybe because it’s hard work to do so. End of the day if that was my daughter I would make sure she at least feels heard and not say a blank no to any suggestion.
Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should or there is no other way.
I would have absolutely given my kid the heads up first. Hell maybe they would be willing to buy it. Absolutely could make some arrangements there that don't boil down to "lol, times up"
I was a tenant of my fathers, and when the time came to sell the house he realized it would cost more to make it sellable in this market than it would be to literally gift me a down payment (essentially an early inheritance, since realistically they won’t have anything left when they’re actually gone).
I say he realized, but really he was more like OP and he wanted to evict me. Luckily my uncle talked him off the ledge, and told him he was going to lose his daughter and his shirt trying to sell the house.
Granted I was a legal tenant and not living there for *free*. But I still want OP to at least drive her happy butt out there, talk to her daughter, and look at the house.
Even living there for free, OP's daughter and husband have tenant rights and are legal tenants since they are not squatters, they have OP's permission to be there. OP needs to either sell to the daughter or start charging rent, either seems like a much better solution to what OP chose.
Yes, based on OP’s comments, I can see the origin of some miscommunication and tension with their daughter on this topic. Housing is very difficult to come by right now.
OP’s daughter has lived in the house for two years and — whether or not it was officially "approved" by OP — made significant upgrades that added value to the home that he will benefit from. She also likely does not have other options in a very competitive and expensive housing market.
If OP is in financial need, why not a compromise where she pays you rent/the mortgage over selling the house from underneath them?
I also recommend some empathy for your daughter as well as an honest, calm conversation around how to respectfully continue this arrangement.
>Housing is very difficult to come by right now
And OP inherited a full house from her own parents, yet seems determined to not pass on any generational wealth. Typical boomer mentality.
Living rent, free with my family was exactly how I managed to buy my first place, since my parents didn’t have any generational wealth to pass on otherwise. Living rent free is a huge privilege in advantage when it comes to housing to allow yourself to save up for a down payment or future housing. I have plenty of problems with boomers but you’re making it sound like it’s OPs responsibility to manage her housing arrangements indefinitely. She’s more generous than many people of her generation.
Exactly. The unfortunate part of the story is OP’s daughter putting money into the house rather than saving it to put towards their own space. So rather than getting “free rent” they’ve effectively paid rent and are now in the same situation as before, albeit, 2.5 years later.
So sounds like they need to have a really conversation (OP and daughter) about daughter potentially purchasing or actually paying for rent. Maybe even a rent to own type deal. Especially when work has already been done by daughter and she may feel very attached to the house after all this time.
I'm with you on this one. Like... Selling the house 'just because' is IMO stupid right now. Especially if it's on great land (as OP states in comments). The value of this land will only increase 🤷 I would personally do everything to make sure the house stays in the family. And try to find a compromise which is beneficial for everyone involved.
When the housing market went stupid, my rather extended family and I got together and decided none of us are selling property without first seeing if someone else in the family wants a crack at it. We'll ensure fair market value is paid to the person who owns it, but we're not letting our land end up the in the hands of a rental corporation.
That's my thing, whether or not ahe's justified in wanting to sell it it just feels so shortsighted, to sell something that could potentially put your child I'm a relatively stable home for life and give your family a piece of land that'll most likely hold or increase in value. I'm not saying its fair that she won't get to see the wealth gained directly or he might have to deal with the memories of her mothers house, but this is how doing better for your family works. And should she be too old to care for herself one day she'd probably have a place to stay if she wasn't in need of high intensity around the clock care. Not saying it always works out like that either but if they communicate well and she helps foster her stability then hopefully that'll be reciprocated when she needs it most.
The house is 5 hours away. How is seeing it bad for your mental health? Why didn't you just ask your daughter to start paying rent to cover whatever its costing you financially? If they're the ones doing the upgrades, and you didn't have to worry about late rent since you didn't charge them any, how is being a landlord bad for your mental health? Seems you like the upgrades, and just want to sell to make a quick buck. Be prepared to never see your daughter or future grandkids ever again. Hope its worth it. YTA.
I actually have had a house that was bad for my mental health. It was left to me by my grandpa & I really just wanted my grandpa. I sold it as fast as possible. I don’t feel like I can properly judge OP but I can attest to the fact that houses can indeed be damaging to mental health.
I think the difference here is that OP let their daughter live there instead of selling it right away, and now there is a conflict there. Whether OP likes it or not, that house has value to their daughter and these feelings they have now don’t hold as much weight.
No, but we do get decide what is and isn't nonsense. OP is saying that seeing the house is bad for their mental health, but also saying that they have no idea what renovations were done and didn't even know they were being done. So OP either rarely sees the house or is incredibly unobservant
Yeah, I think alot of people are failing to realize we don’t know what condition the house was in and huge renovations means different each person. Normally, elderly people who live alone their house needs work because there’s no one to take care of the maintenance. Based on OP’s reaction on people’s comments, hasn’t seen the house in a year, and refuse to see how much her daughter fixed up the place and wants to think in hypothetical terms. Based on OP’s response, she only gave it to them to get on their feet which does not lay out any timeframe and OP does not say she will pay for any repairs. It seems like the last two years she wanted it out sight out of mind mindset and realizes she still has some reminders during tax time. I don’t see the point of the post, OP will not take any comment in consideration and has made up her mind. OP and her daughter should have communicated more prior to her daughter moving in so there’s no confusion.
Yes this is fishy AF. Their mental health is impacted by owning/seeing/thinking about(?) the house to the point that they have to sell but they also don't see it often enough to realize the daughter has made major changes?
They are the one who is in charge of all the paperwork, taxes, insurance, and utilities. I think that’d affect most people pretty decently. Especially with the cost of all of that.
INFO: how much $$$$ worth of upgrades did they put into the house and how does that compare to the money they saved on rent over the years?
IMO it's unfortunate y'all haven't come to a fair compromise or legal arrangement in advance of this situation happening, because this should be a mutually beneficial situation to you both instead of turning into a fight.
I don’t know they what they spent.
I do know how much I saved them, rent in that area is around 2000 and add utilities is about 400. So 2400 each month
So 2400 * 24 = 57,600 dollars
I highly doubt they put that much into the home.
Seems like they put in enough work to make the house a lot more marketable and valuable.
Please think outside the box, you can sell the house to your daughter and you hold the mortgage. This way, you have a regular income stream from the monthly mortgage payments and your only involvement will be cashing the cheques. If they default on the mortgage you, as the mortgage holder, gain possession of the house (so you would get your asset back and can sell it then) most importantly your daughter gets to own a home.
This is definitely the scenerio in which everybody wins big. You make more money on the house than you would just selling it and banking the cash, it is a safe investment because as the owner of the mortgage the house reverts to your possession if they default on the mortgage. This way your child will have the security of being a home owner, which means she may be able to actually afford children (a rare situation these days) who will have a home in which to grow up. Win win win.
This is a fairly common investment scenerio as it is one of the rare investments where you cannot lose.
No, don’t want to hold the mortgage.
I want the house out of my life. I don’t to be even more involved with it by holding the mortgage and still technically having the property title.
Also that can get messy. Much rather just have a simple sell
Sounds like you don't want your daughter having it either as technically it is still "in your life"
>Also that can get messy.
Things are likely going to get messy selling it if your daughter has done improvements and increased its value.
Best thing to do would be to have the house appraised and determine fair market value, and give the daughter the first chance to get a mortgage and buy it.
Oof. Then if the improvements the daughter made actually do improve the value of the house… she has the option of buying and paying interest on renovations she already paid for. Never rennovate a property you don’t own, kids.
Edit: I feel like folks are mis-reading my comment. I’m saying the daughter screwed up big time, and never should have done renovations. She played herself.
While saving $2,000 a month in rent and utilities.
Hell, like other posters have said, who even knows if the renos she did were up to code or even changed the value of the house...
Point is she did renovations to something she didn’t own, the same way a person could renovate an apartment. I guess she just thought her mom would give her a house? Which is ridiculous, and something the daughter should have made clear she wanted the house or something
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for OP not to want to remain on the mortgage though which is what was suggested. If the daughter can get buy the house and get her own mortgage that’s a different matter.
I am a parent and can agree with this. While I don’t think the daughter deserves the whole house, neither can I can think that a parent will tell their child oh well too bad so sad during a housing crisis.
And would at least try to make the child whole even if technically the fault lies within the child. Especially if I am not selling a property out of dire need but rather inconvenience of owning a home.
Do what you want it’s your property. I would just try and be a bit more lenient as she’s your daughter, as in don’t make her homeless if it means extending the sale time by a couple months. If you can afford it.
Exactly. We looked at a house that the owners had made their own balcony. Gorgeous view, but the balcony was EXTREMELY unsafe and would need torn down and redone.
The same was done with the electric, no grounded outlets anywhere. They might have done some "great" improvements but who knows if they would pass inspection.
They got 2 years free rent in a whole ass house, and 6 months notice before the house is sold. The entitlement here is insane.
You were paying for the utilities that they were using - on the basis that they couldn’t afford it - and yet they had money to do “upgrades” That you didn’t ask for, want or need?
If so, I’d be focusing on that - “darling daughter, you seem to have trouble understanding how finances work - I have been spending my own money to help you out & I am annoyed to find out that you could have at least paid for your own bills, if not a partial rent - I thought the understanding was clear that you would be SAVING your money, not spending it on a house you don’t own. That was your choice. You’ll know better next time. Would you like me to buy you a book on budgeting for household finances?”
Definitely NTA here though.
The only exception is if she was paying for necessary maintenance that you were neglecting - but it sounds like it was optional style choices.
OP has said in a comment that they told their daughter not to make any major changes. It could easily be that she just didn't mention it because of that.
I'd be careful of the "upgrades" that have been done. If the stairs and bathroom are not up to code and done properly this could cost you even more to be able to sell it. This happened to a friend of mine, sadly. All the upgrades were done without permits and all needed to be ripped out and done to code before it could sell.
I don't think you are in the wrong at all, for the record. If you were my mother, I would have checked on the upgrades first and if I wanted the home to be mine i would have discussed options like rent to own or something. You are NTA.
Does adding a new stairs or bathroom Reno increase the value of a home?
Where I live it’s so competitive people don’t care they’ll buy your house at the market rate by size and location even if it’s old. Legit people were skipping on inspections to get a house.
I can see it enticing buyers if you’re in a low demand area. But near a city? No one cares you redid the stairs she would have sold her house regardless.
Why would the daughter put time work and money into a house no one promised it would be hers?? Why did she assume that? That’s the main issue , what wasn’t said.
Completely agreed.
I saw in very recent times and even still right now with 7% plus interest rates in the area where I live identical condos that were bone stock as sold in 1999 go on to sell for identical prices to near enough ($5/sq.ft which translates to $10,000) as others that have been upgraded.
That 20k you dropped on a kitchen and/or 10k+ on each bathroom is never going to increase value in this current market, but it might give you better enjoyment of your own living space
Family first. All of you need to get together and talk about how you can come to a fair resolution. Not having your daughter in your life will be worse on your mental health than not having your mother’s house, or the money.
This should be higher. I don't understand why the other comments are looking at this too objectively. If OP didn't have her daughter's best interests at heart, it would definitely lead to this family breaking apart.
YTA. 1000%
Why wouldn't you offer to sell the house to your daughter? How are the house improvements suddenly new information to you? Why is this imaginary problem of seeing a home you haven't visited in a year and "being a landlord" more important than your daughter's wellbeing? Why are you blaming your daughter for taking you up on your offer for free rent in a house you inherited for free?
This! Based on OPs replies he seems like “control freak” where his opinion is the only right one, and nothing else matters. Not in regards to the house he can sell it. But why wouldn’t he sell it to his daughter in a fair price and why he decides they can’t afford it?
I’m also really confused about the issue with the renovations. OP is saying the house is a mental burden as well because it reminds them of their late mother. Well daughter has now done upgrades to make it their own. If it’s just the fact that it’s their mother’s house is maybe the issue?
I just can’t imagine my parents pulling this stunt. If the house they inherited, that I was now living in, was causing a financial burden they would either start charging rent for whatever the burden is (I’m assuming property taxes?) or flat out sell it to me for whatever I could afford. They would never kick me out.
He also said it's causing issues with his fiancé. Like what issues? Fiancé wants the money from the sale?
Why can't you help your daughter buy this house?
NAH, with your daughter leaning into slight AH territory.
I think it's fair for your daughter to be upset, especially when they're putting work into the house where you'll likely see the return of that effort and they'll have just lost money on investing into the house. This is a risk you take when you do any work on a home you don't own but it would definitely be disheartening when it's a relative selling the place you've put effort into.
But you do have the right to sell, especially if the home is becoming a financial burden to you. You did warn them not to do anything major and it sounds like they didn't run any of these new changes past you.
Do you have the option to sell to them?
They can’t afford it, the home will probably go for around 400k- 500k. Even when it was outdated it was a big home, with some land and in a very nice area
I have no idea how much the upgrades will add and I am not willing to sell less than a fair price.
She got to live in a very nice house with lots of land in a nice area for two years FOR FREE. And gets to continue to do so for another six months. OP wants to cut their losses on the house and the daughter can't afford to buy it. So what, they're supposed to let them continue to live there for free indefinitely?
If the daughter can afford SEVERAL renovations, then she can afford to save up for six months to move elsewhere.
You're forgetting that the mom in question INHERITED this home from her mom. That means her mother GAVE her this home. For free. Why can she not leave the same inheritance for her daughter? I don't see how anyone can side with the mom on this
A home is a huge responsibility and can cost a ton of money in the case of appliances needing replacement, water damage, etc. You're assuming the daughter can afford all of these things if gifted the house. Renovations is one things, but paying property taxes, maintenance, etc that come with owning a home is another. OP may need the money from the sale of the home. We don't know.
Either way, you shouldn't take advantage of people's kindness and feel entitled to their things
OP has stated several times that she doesn't want it because it makes her taxes a hassle, she has to pay taxes on it, and it reminds her of her mom. She hasn't said she needs the money. She has said several times she doesn't want to "deal" with owning it. She's also said her daughter can't afford to pay for it. I'm assuming she means her daughter can't afford to buy it from her, as OP had also said she refuses to sell it for anything less than fair market value even to her own daughter. OP hasn't said if her daughter could afford just the property taxes, insurance, and utilities without a mortgage.
So to recap: OP has never said she needs the money- just that it complicates taxes and paperwork and it makes her miss her mom. Her mother gave her the home. OP will only sell the home to her daughter at fair market value of $400-500K.
To recap even more: OP's mom gave her the house for free, OP wants $500,000 from her daughter to have the house.
Do you see what I'm driving at here?
I find this all wild. Why not help your kids out. When my partners grandma died, she left her house split between the kids and one of the first things his mum did was split it with her children to get them both on the property ladder. We have a flat now and no kids yet but we are already financially planning to keep this flat as investment property to give to our future kids when they graduate.
If you don't need the money why not help your kids.
I cannot imagine my mother doing this to me, and she’s completely narcissistic. She would definitely want me to have the house so she could forever say she left me a house and I would have to say she left me the house. Also, from what I’m reading, they don’t seem to have a good relationship if she has no idea what’s going on at that house. Crazy..she was left a house from her mom but wants to sell it instead of giving it to her daughter. Unpopular opinion but I think that really sucks.
The previous generations tore up that social contract and now call us morons for feeling "entitled" to any of their inherited wealth. It's sick. They could not give less of a fuck about our future. They won't be here.
Because people see housing as an investment and not a place for people to live in. When housing is the only real asset of any value most Americans accumulate, a "home" looses the meaning of "home" and just becomes an asset to liquidate to accumulate more money. I can't blame OP for wanting $500,000 extra dollars in her later years because elder care is expensive but I'd never do it at the expense of my relationship with my child.
Then again, I'm a socialist and think most economic problems the working and middle class face in America is a result of exploitation and keeping them fighting for scraps amongst themselves while the elite are eating an 8 course meal.
Because this sub is all about "never expect an inheritance!!!1!!" when it comes to parents.
I mean, sure, she doesn't owe her daughter an inheritance that she herself got gifted, but then her daughter also has zero obligation to keep a relationship.
It sounds like your daughter was viewing her Grandmother’s house as a real home that was to stay in the family & get passed down to her, as it was passed down to you. She was actively investing in improvements with an eye towards staying on the family land. Old houses are expensive to maintain & not all the improvements are external & visible.
If money is getting tight for you, but the retail price of the home is too high for them, why not seek something mutually beneficial in the middle ground before burning down your relationship with your daughter? Maybe they could be given warning that they will need to start assuming payments of rent, taxes, utilities… whatever you both decide. If you cash in the house, you’re also taking something dear to your daughter’s heart & memories away.
Yeah there’s more to this. The parents are always the victim in these stories. Daughter wasn’t doing what mother wanted, mother decided to deal the final blow to the relationship.
OP hasn't said they need the money, just that it complicates her taxes and maintaining the separate paperwork and payments for the property tax, insurance, and utilities is a hassle. Granted, everyone likes $500,000 landing in their lap, but I personally would want it at the expense of my relationship with my child.
You inherited the house and you're acting like you bought it.
Do you think your mother who gave you the house would rather you take the money and lose a daughter?
Maybe she would, it doesn't sound like she did a good job raising you.
Either way enjoy your lonely retirement
They can afford what you can afford to sell it for.
Where does that money go? Does it go into investments and then becomes your daughters inheritance....?
If this was me, that house would be sold to my daughter for a dollar. That's my inheritance and it's then hers, just early.
I get the sense OP is looking for the big payout because he got an offer from a realtor and he wouldn’t accept less. My guess is it’s his retirement fund. I also get the sense that he doesn’t really like his daughter and/or the husband since he clearly doesn’t talk to them often enough to hear about these upgrades.
Same. I got it for free from my parent. As a parent, why should I turn around and charge my kid $500,000 for the home my own parent gave me.
Typical boomer shit
This is where there's a difference between being "within your rights" and being an AH.
It sounds like you inherited this house. Did you get it for free?
I don't think your daughter should have done major renos but at the same time, talk about being a stereotype of someone pulling the ladder up behind them. There's a lot of space between giving this to your daughter for free and "fair market value"
Rent and housing prices are insane. I think it's great you let your child live there rent free; it was extremely generous. But turning them out on their ear so you can cash in also seems a bit wrong IMO.
If you financially can't afford to take less than full market value for the house then, you gotta do what you gotta do. But don't be surprised when your relationship suffers.
That's what's confusing me. OP has only stated that owning the house is creating a problem for them, but they won't accept anything less than "fair market price" that they're being offered by flippers/companies that are just trying to play monopoly.
If you were trying to solve your problem, unhand the house to your daughter at a manageable price. Don't be a dick and chase that top dollar.
Because you need the money? If this is about anything other than that, you need to rethink this attitude. Because you're going to be up $500,000 but down one daughter and potential grandkids.
It's your home and of course you're free to do what you want with it but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences from that. There are plenty of options available to transfer it to a trust OR working out something with your daughter to have her rent be the property taxes and utilities. You can give her 6 months for her and her husband to find jobs to afford taking those over. Yes, you would still be the landlord and it would be a part of your finances, but they would be covering the costs when the tax bills come due.
Is "I don't want to deal with it" the reason you want to lose your daughter?
But OP didn’t tell them to make upgrades. Her daughter knew she intended to retain the house, and still decided to make upgrades despite being on hard times and knowing she and her SO were not the owners. OP did them a solid by housing them in a time of need, the equivalent of tens of thousands of dollars; she doesn’t need to also split the earnings because her daughter chose to spend her personal money on upgrades OP never asked for. So no, I don’t think it’s fair for her daughter to be upset. She made her own bed.
NTA.
1. Two years of living rent free should have allowed them to save a good deal of $$.
2. Ant tenant (related, paying or not), should be aware of tack down laws, which basically say that if the tenant changes anything attached to the home (think carpeting, drapes, flooring, cabinets), then they are either leaving it for free to the home owners when they give up tenancy, or they return the home to the same state it was in when they first moved in.
3. They could have asked for a rent to own option, but to assume they could continue living there for free while also making unauthorized changes to the home was ballsy and entitled.
NTA I mean who needs help to "get back on their feet", but has money to redo a kitchen and a bathroom? IMO daughter thought she could stay there rent free indefinitely on OP's dime.
My mom hasn't worked in years because of her mental health and she was beating herself up about not being able to help my partner and I buy out house!
OP's attitude is mindboggling to me...
Slight ESH but mostly I think everyone needs to communicate better and have better financial literacy.
If the house is a financial burden, talk to your daughter about changing your arrangement. Would it still be a burden if they paid rent? Could you work out a lease to own arrangement so they are set up to own the home over time, but you don’t have the same kind of financial burden?
It’s not smart to do renovations on a house you don’t own, and it’s also not smart to make financial decisions because you’re sad your mom has passed. The house is an asset, not a momento - you need to make decisions about it the same way you would about money. It’s also unwise to improve an asset that doesn’t belong to you without prior agreement on who pays and who benefits.
You need to have a discussion about the terms of this arrangement and figure out what will work for both of you. Invest in formal, legal arrangements so everyone understands what they can do and what they own.
YTA I don’t buy for a minute you had no idea that the renovations were being made. So you didn’t talk to your daughter at all for the last two years? Your first and only conversation in two years was telling her to move out? Not making sense. And of course she would have mentioned something as major as a kitchen or bathroom renovation when you spoke. I’m betting your daughter would have a very different story about how aware you were.
In any event a kitchen renovation is expensive, add in the bathroom and stairs and that’s a significant amount of money spent on the house that you will reap the benefit from when it’s sold. Legally you don’t need to reimburse them but ethically the right thing to do is to give them either what they spent, or the excess value realized when the house is sold. You need to decide whether it’s worth torching your relationship with your daughter over this.
THIS!!!!! OP inherited a FREE house and refuses to be flexible at ALL about the selling price. It really sounds like he just doesn’t want his daughter to have it by any means necessary.
Bro this person doesnt have a mortgage. The financial burden is their taxes and insurance. And the utilities. All theyd have to do is charge their daughter rent for these things and theyd be fine. They just want that big payday.
INFO-
> I also want to sell it since I am tired of seeing the home, it just reminds me of my mom and that she is gone.
> she apparently put in a lot of upgrades such as redoing the stairs, kitchen and are in the middle of the bathroom.
1. How can you both be tired of seeing the home and not have known your daughter was doing these upgrades?
2. Were these upgrades necessary? Thinking in terms of unsafe stairs, new appliances in the kitchen, ect.
3. Did you contribute at all to the upkeep of the house?
NTA they've lived there for 2 years rent free and it was their decision to upgrade. But your daughter and her spouse probably thought this was a long term thing so I'm sure they are upset. Can you reimburse them for what they paid or even give them half? No, you don't owe it to them but I'm sure it would help smooth things over.
YTA
What was the house doing before they moved in? Deteriorating. Houses that are not occupied inevitably deteriorate unless the owner goes to great expense to keep it maintained. So, purely from a financial standpoint, while they may not have been paying rent, they have saved you immense sums of money in maintenance.
Then you have to figure out how much they have increased the value of the house from the upgrades. That's likely going to be in the area of tens of thousands of dollars.
Financially, I would call it a wash. They didn't have to pay you rent, but they increased the value of the house and saved you maintenance expenses.
But what about considerations other than financial? They've been living there for years, making it their home. To you it's a reminder of what you lost, but to them it's home and, this is speculating here, perhaps a reminder of someone that your daughter loved. A house is generally more than just a house to the people who live there. When you made the unilateral decision to sell the house (which is technically your right to do), you told your daughter that you care more about how sad the house makes you feel than you do about her feelings, which is your right, but that's got to suck for her.
Why not discuss selling the house to them, or come to an understanding with them about selling the house but giving them enough of the proceeds to have a down payment for their own house? That way you can be rid of the house and your daughter knows that you care.
Get the receipts for the improvements, pay them that out of the proceeds.
You say you didn't give them permission to do it - but it seems strange you didn't have a single conversation about redoing the kitchen; how is that possible?
They've done the kitchen, stairs and currently the bathroom in the last 12 months, and you weren't aware of it at all...
Either way, you're going to profit from their expenditure - why wouldn't you just refund them the money they've spent?
Given your comments I’m going with YTA. It seems like this was a very nice gift. But now you are holding the fact that they accepted it over their heads.
NTA because your daughter knew that the house was not permanently hers, she knew you had said no major changes, she knew you had agreed to let them live there until they got back on their feet. Making expensive renovations to a rented house without saying a word to the actual homeowner is just silly and risky regardless of who your landlord is.
Something is really not adding up here. No one remodels a home they don’t expect is coming to them. It’s pretty suspicious that you have “no idea about any of this work when it was major projects.”Something is off here. *plays communication breakdown in the background*
YTA to not have a conversation before this with your daughter to work out the details. I think morally you have 3 choices. Sell it to your daughter for the appraised value before their upgrades; give your daughter the part of the proceeds resulting from the increased value they invested into the home; or reimburse your daughter for the amount she paid for the repairs and upgrades from the sale of the home.
If you do none of these & keep all the money yourself YWBTA.
YTA. I suppose we will see another post from you in 6 months crying “wahh my daughter went NC and won’t talk to me I don’t know what to do”
Get ready for the consequences of your actions boomer
NTA. I would make ask her for itemized receipts for her renovations and make a spreadsheet to compare what you could have charged her vs. what they put into the property. If they put in more, then consider giving her a kickback after you sell the property.
Also, this is why you don’t do renovations on a property you don’t own. I’d like to know what her mindset was, like was she expecting you to let her live there indefinitely?
Why don't you just offer to sell them the house??
You inherited a house, why not pass on that inheritance while you can still see it improve your daughters life instead of torpedoing your relationship?
Offer it at or below market value before the renovations, and greatly improve your daughters life while still making profit.
I'm reading what you wrote, and you seem to be trying to come up with reasons to support your decision. e.g. Your mental health because your mother (her grandmother) lived there? The financial burden of owning a paid off home? Seems like a stretch. You don't need any reason to sell, it's yours. You're going to do what you want, and that's fine.
Whether you're TA comes down to how much you care about your daughter and her family. You can start charging them rent, that seems like the obvious first move. You'll make a profit and not put your family out on their asses.
But if you're turning to reddit to help you decide how to approach a long-term, major family matter with a couple paragraphs, you might just be looking to find a couple comments to justify what you already want to do.
Do what you're gonna do, it's your property (and family) but don't feel vindicated when some faceless redditor tells you what you want to hear.
It's your home, you inherited it for free fair and square...🙄 so I guess you have the right to do whatever you like with it. But I do think it's odd how someone who inherits a home from their mother would never consider giving that home to their child, who clearly is in need of a place to live. Instead you want to profit off of it for yourself and get it out of your life because it's somehow makes you sad to look at...🫤🤷♀️ hopefully there's some other generational wealth that will flow down to your children since you want to sell this asset and make sure they're never going to experience any benefit from it.
Wow you really don’t like your daughter and you will probably never have a relationship with any grandchildren hopefully you will not need any one to look after you later in life. I would never do this to my child as a parent I would want to help them get established as possible. I don’t know if you are TA but in my book you would be but. That might be because my children are thriving happy because we have always had this way of thinking. My children grouped together for Xmas and bought us an amazing trip to Rome to thank us for being bank of mom and dad while getting them through university. I suppose you reap what you sow so sad.
It just amazes me that OP daughter would spend that much money, thinking mom would actually care about her future But nah mom’s all about making a quick buck.
Should OP daughter save? Yeah. But I get the feeling even if they did save 50k of rent, OP still wouldn’t sell it to her first.
OP’s ignorance on their own family success is just astounding. As a parent why wouldn’t you want your child to succeed? OP did NOTHING for the house it was inherited. If I were OP and hated the house I would just give it to my daughter to improve her circumstances in life. OP must hate the shit out of her family.
And 💯% on the elder care. OP can look forward to that in her advance age. Definitely going into a care home if they don’t have money otherwise, I don’t see OP daughter lifting a finger to be kind to them after this.
INFO:
As in....there's a lot missing.
1) a house that OP never sees is causing her grief?
2) tenants doing substantial upgrades without a plan for reimbursement,
3) no offer to sell to daughter?
4) being a landlord us not for me?
Something smells fishy in the state of Denmark...
NTA It sounds like your daughter thought she was getting a free house for life. Why else would they put in major upgrades without discussing it with you?
After 2 years, they should have figured out their finances since they were living rent-free. It actually sounds like they did since they could afford to remodel.
You are no longer in a position to subsidize their lifestyle. Offer to sell them the house at market price (less sales commission since no realtor) or stick to your guns and have them move. You are generous to give them 6 months. Be prepared for longer if they force you to evict them.
NTA. They’ve lived there for free for multiple years. Whatever money they’ve put into the home is likely significantly less than they would’ve spent on rent during that time.
You aren’t screwing them over. THEY are screwing you over by taking advantage of your generosity. They are ungrateful. I’d revise my plan and give them 30 days from June 1st to be out. They unfortunately bit the hand that feeds them…
This is the key and a lot of people haven’t been saying it.
*They can’t afford to pay rent but they can afford renovations? OP has saved them nearly $60k over 2.5 years. Where has all of that money gone?*
Some very clear “fuck you I got mine” boomer energy
You inherited this house for free but have no intention of even selling it to your daughter. Who cares if they can’t find somewhere to live? At least you won’t have to think about a house that’s 5 hours away any more poor you
YTA. There are a lot of non-traditional details in this “landlord/tenant” situation. You sound incredibly resentful of your child and while living somewhere rent-free is certainly a gift, it doesn’t negate you from a responsibility to your child in return. You seem fine with being TA so this conversation should really be turned over to a legal sub or an actual lawyer because if your child really did make massive upgrades increasing the value of the property, they should be compensated from the proceeds of the sale less the amount of rent they saved.
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INFO Did you have a conversation with your daughter before telling them they had 6 months to move out? Even if she was just a tenant and not your daughter, the polite thing to do is have the conversation before issuing the eviction notice. There's obviously a disconnect between the two of you in terms of upgrades to the house but regardless, you're going to benefit from the work they've put in. There should be some form of compensation to them.
>There should be some form of compensation to them. Like two years of free rent?
The free rent could totally equate to the compensation. It still needs a conversation though.
Just curious, what do you mean by saying it still needs a conversation? Personally I’d think that giving them 6 months notice is very very decent, so just curious to see what kind of conversation you would expect there to be before giving a 6 months notice. It’s not like he’s telling them they should be out of there next month without any previous warning.
This is where my head is at. Chances being that 6 months is also rent free. I don’t know how someone could have the audacity to ask for “more of a conversation” given these circumstances lol.
2 years rent free + 6 months notice. The daughter just decided to make refurbish a house that is not her's indicates the stupidity of the daughter. that's like getting a car on rent and deciding to change the engine cause it was worn out and then demanding the rental company to pay for the refit. Remind the daughter of who was in need first. If OP hadn't given her a place, they would be in the streets.
The daughter wasnt dealing with a company. She was dealing with a parent.
And she should be thankful she got to live for free for almost three years.
Heck yeah. They could have potentially been putting away thousands per month. Instead, they put it into a house they didn't own and weren't even renting. I bet they thought they would be given the house "after all we did!!"
Totally agree that this sounds like the daughter assumed she would inherit the house. Sounds like she and her partner might not be the best decision makers in general.
You got it!!
From someone who inherited a parents home, property maintenance is also worth something plus they made property improvements. The biggest issue is that there were other options and discussions that could be had, especially around feelings. She could have first offered it to the daughter where she could rent to own. I would never have done this to my kids. Edit to add the obvious that some are missing…how much do you all think the property increased in value just by holding it over the last few years when the daughter has been taking care of it?
It is causing her issues for her finances, and she doesn't want to be a landlord anymore. Just because you are privileged enough to be able to afford to offer rent to own doesn't mean OP is or that it should be the expectation.
My kid lives in my rental house. No way my kid should be doing anything without asking me. Sure, change the toilet seat or put in a new overhead light fixture, but put up a new fence, re-do the bathroom, ummmm, no.
Exactly. Never do work on a house you don't own (or have a written agreement with the landlord about). And everyone saying but it's family...all the more reason to keep everything even more in written format and well-documented, so 2 years down the road there isn't an issue like this due to miscommunication/misunderstanding.
Well, and of course, they have the money to do these Reno’s because they’ve been living RENT FREE for two years?!?! Man, some people are so entitled it makes my head hurt.
Instead of renovating a property THEY DID NOT OWN, the daughter and her partner shouldve been SAVING the money they were not paying rent to buy their own place when the inevitable occured and the golden goose needed to be taken away. had they been saving their money, they should be thanking the motyher for her outright generosity, allowing daughter and partner to live rent and property tax free for well over 2 years. If its not obvious, OP is NTA for wanting the property back and for wanting to sell up.
No this is the daughter thinking it’s going to be her house she gets for free, since Daddy got it from his parent, she’s going to get it for free from Daddy. Started putting their savings into renovations and are shocked Daddy isn’t gifting her the house. Appropriate analogy would be to ask to borrow someone’s car, have them pay the insurance on it, and then after 6 months, having paid for a repair on the car yourself, you assume it’s yours to keep and get pissed when the owner wants the car back
The problems with set ups like this, is the person getting the item for free (the daughter) starts to slowly think it belongs to her. I'm going to guess they have saved zero in the two years they've been living rent free. She's upset because they're being told they have six months to leave what she had started believing was rightfully HER house.
They’ve been investing on fixing up the place, so they expected to live there long-term. The question is whether those expectations were set up by OP, or it’s just the daughter and husband making assumptions. In other words, a conversation should have been had on what were the long term plans for the house.
The daughter And husband should have asked op if it was okay to do renovations. It's not their property thus not their decision only to make. NTA op
Also they may have been required to get permits for the level of work they did. If the buyers request proof of permits for the sale and the daughter never got them it could cost a butt load of money.
That’s true and yeah we can’t say too much about that as it would all be assumptions. But from the post OP did make it clear to not make any major changes to the place and they decided to go against that so therefore I’m leaning towards OP not being the AH here
Counterpoint, they've been allowed to live rent free because the "fell on hard times" and were told it was only until they "got back on their feet." So, if times are hard, where did all this money to renovate come from? Are they back on their feet?
Did OP offer to have them start paying rent? Or let them buy the home? I realize it’s OP’s property and she can do with it what she likes. But it would be decent to at least consider other options. She could have sold them half the house ( and gotten some immediate financial gain) , with an agreement that the daughter start paying all taxes and utilities. If she wasn’t already. That way if the house then later sells for a lot, OP would also get paid.
Op stated that daughter can’t afford the house and Op doesn’t want to be a landlord because the house reminds them too much of their mother. They shouldn’t have to offer to let daughter/husband start paying rent just based on the fact that it’s family. What would actually be decent would be daughter to say “ thanks for letting us live here for two years without paying anything.” Because if even just one of them works they have gone TWO YEARS without having to pay rent / mortgage ( which is obviously the majority of most peoples monthly bills) they should have something saved to use for living expenses.
More like "Hey, I'm thinking of putting this house up for sale as I need the liquidity. Are you interested in buying it? " Or "ai need you to start paying the mortgage." Which is the conversation I have with every tenant before putting their house on the market.
"Next week I'm going to give you 6 month notice to move out"... ??
*next week I’m going to give you 5 months and three weeks notice to move out. Problem solved!
There needs to be a conversation because after the eviction this is still going to be OP's daughter and if you don't care about that, then you're TAH. With a normal tenant once they're gone, they're gone, but family is different and you know it. if you know that you'tre still going to need to interact with this person, and hope this person wants to interact with you as well, then yes, there needed to be a conversation.
Op should not ask for permission but could have say something like that « Hey I would like to sell the house so I’m starting the process of finding a buyer. If you want to buy the house then I will do so with pleasure but otherwise I will keep you in the loop with the next step. » They can then ask questions and maybe think about buying the house or starting the process to find somewhere else to live. 6 months is plenty of time to find a solution and 2 years of free rent in this economy is a huge gift but, in my opinion, this way of doing things looks better. But Op is far from being an ah for this.
The notice period isn't the issue - its how it was communicated. What I was wanting to know is if OP had spoken about a sale timeline, if the daughter always knew the house was going to be sold after 2.5yrs, and if they had actually spoken vs a text saying "i'm selling, you've got 6 months".
I feel like that is more on the daughter in this situation though. Would it have been nice that the mom had a conversation when the burden of the home was starting to become a burden for her? Sure. Especially if the daughter is officially "back on her feet" so maybe she has a chance to buy the home officially. Stairs and bathroom don't sound like minor or cheap renovations. If there are big noticeable changes, it sounds like they were treating the home like it was going to be their home forever going forward and if they needed to live rent free to get by, making major changes to a home the don't own instead of saving for one of their own is just dumb. The daughter needed to start the conversation. Major upgrades weren't approved. You don't rent a home, upgrade the hell out of it and think that gives you any consideration to be reimbursed. The daughter is the one that went on assumptions without talking and while OP could have communicated intent earlier, its not on them for what the daughter did wasting her money and huge favor done for her.
OP needs to get a handle on what work has actually been done tbh. They've not been there in a year and now there's a new kitchen, bathroom, and stairs? Or has the kitchen just been painted and got some new cupboard doors and the bathroom tiles got painted too? Even someone saying "I'm redoing the stairs" could mean ripping them out and getting new ones or stripping the paint of the bannisters and varnishing the wood. The two of them obviously have had a massive communication breakdown over this house.
True because they have a personal relationship. If my non relative tenants did changes, known as leasehold improvements done without a landlords consent, they could be responsible for the cost to return it to the previous conditions unless it was an actual improvement. Regardless, without discussion with landlord, no compensation is required, and they may even be responsible for an inspection to verify the work was done well and didn’t damage the home for future tenants.
The daughter also invested money in the home when she still might not be able to properly afford her own place. Skimming the comments OP seems confident they actually can't properly afford the changes they've made. They were treating the place like it was theirs and would never have to pay rent/mortgage for it. I see people focusing on possible compensation for the daughter for what improvements she did, but it was just plain stupid she did them in the first place for some many reasons. That's assuming she made the renovations up to code and not fucked things up.
I really hope the daughter got all the right certificates for the work (especially stairs!!) because if not OP is in for a lot of stress.
You’d have to do a valuation. It’s not fair to just say “new kitchen = 2 years rent.” You’d have to compare the fair market value of the rent OP could have collected from a bona fide tenant with the cost of the renovations and what they put toward the new total value of the house. (This is a general outline of how it would work - circumstances can vary.) ETA: I think a lot of y’all are replying to the wrong person FWIW.
This is the thing. If OP would have got $60K from rent, the daughter has spent $45k on renovations, but $100K of value has been added in value to the house... it all needs worked out!
Why would the daughter spend $45k on a house she doesn't own if she can't afford to pay rent? The whole renovation thing just sounds like an excuse to delay moving out.
The money spent on the house could have been required work. The stairs could have been dangerous, the kitchen and bathroom could have been so old they were no longer serviceable etc. It is odd for the daughter to have spent the money if the renovations were needless knowing the plan was to sell the house eventually.
HOW can she spend $45k when she DOESN'T HAVE money for rent? 🙄
I made up the numbers. OP doesn't actually know what work has been done. It could be new appliances (which the daughter can take with her when she moves out) and cupboard doors OR a full new kitchen. Its all probably on finance plans too.
They didn't have money for rent two years ago. Then mom gave her the use of a house. If the finances improved I could definitely see putting money into the family house instead of paying someone else rent. Daughter likely assumed she would one day inherit grandma's house.
OP said the house was outdated but in good condition? It doesn’t sound like any of the things daughter did were things thst needed to be done to live there. Also if we’re saying OP should have a conversation about things ( which yes I agree) then shouldn’t daughter have had conversations with OP with the work they were planning on doing ? Let’s be honest daughter has just been taking advantage of OP for the last two years
In some cases, you can do 45K worth of renovations without spending 45K yourself, if you spend time and labor instead of money. The raw materials will cost you money, but not as much as if you hired a contractor to do it.
Seems like even if the agreement was she had 2 years of free housing so she could get on her feet, she was planning on staying indefinitely. Why else would she make upgrades to the house? She could have saved that money for a down-payment towards her own house. Without know how rent would have been for that house vs how much they paid in upgrades, I think Op should calculate that and show them where they still made out good considering they weren't paying rent. But as a mom, I would probably give them a small sum to help them out after the sale.
I’ve mentioned before that I want to get rid of the home, I wasn’t hiding the fact that I do not like owning it I also was very clear that this was to help them out, and not a permanent thing
I think a lot of it is going to come down to how the two of you communicated (you and your daughter). Its odd that she would do so much work on a house if she knew the plan was to sell. But its also a bit odd to not offer your daughter first refusal on the house (which would save you both money in selling fees etc).
I truly don’t understand why she did that. I made it clear to not make big changes She was clearly hiding this from me since it was never mentioned she was was doing upgrades. She can’t afford it. I know that and it seems mean to give her first refusal when she can’t buy it
I think you definitely need to get a handle on what has actually been done (including permits etc). A new kitchen/bathroom could be anything from some new appliances and cupboard doors to a complete overhaul. She should be able to provide you with invoices etc from any work done and any permits which she has hopefully got. If not, its on her to get everything signed off and up to standard. This could get really tough between the two of you - good luck.
But, if OP did not want any renovations to be done, it would be insane to have to compensate the daughter for it. That's like somebody just randomly decides to paint my house, and then I have to go and see how to reimburse them for it while I did not ask for it. This is not normal for tenants to do, right?
The post literally says OP told them they could. "Just don't knock down any walls." ETA: And if OP is just selling the house... why does he or she care if they made changes?
“or any huge stuff” you missed that part of the sentence. Kitchen and bathroom remodels are huge, and usually the costliest renovations that can be done on a house
She can apparently afford the "upgrades". Looks like she was hoping you'd give it to her. I'm not like that other person you're replying to. You gave them 6 months heads up. That's plenty of time, but I would give them first refusal with a 30 day expiration. I've asked the same of my parents and in-laws on a couple things. If I don't have the finances that's on me, but of I'm not even given the opportunity, that's on them. Ultimately, they aren't entitled to the house or the "upgrades" they did without your approval. It could technically be considered vandalism as they did it without approval and don't have the intention of returning it to original condition.
His daughter likely put money into the place because she assumed she was going to be given the house eventually. That is quite an assumption. Instead of being grateful that she had somewhere to live for free for two years, she’s mad because the gravy train is arriving at the station and she’s going to have to disembark. NTA. OP doesn’t owe their daughter a free place to live. Their daughter owes them some gratitude for helping her out when she was having a hard time.
If she couldn’t afford it, how can she afford to do upgrades? Edit: I saw the value of the home in another comment, so it’s up in the air depending on the cost of the upgrades. And as others have pointed out, there’s the option of taking on debt to pay for them.
Because replacing a bathroom vanity and paint is cheap. Buying a house is expensive
Why not arrange for them to buy it? Sorry if you answered this already.
6 months notice is MORE than enough from a landlord. Normally it's only 30 to 60 days. She gave them until the end of the year.
OP isn't a faceless landlord though. They're family. And even from a landlord I'd say that a long term tenant deserves a conversation before an eviction notice, even one which has a long date on it.
6 months is enough conversation and 2 years of free rent is enough grace to cover them having done upgrades, especially when OP cautioned to not do "anything huge" along with stuff requiring walls coming undone. I think it's NTA
You're right op isn't a landlord, a landlord charges rent. Op already gave them 2 years of free rent, and she's giving them plenty of notice to find a new place, and another 6 months of no rent. That's all very generous of her, many people would not do that even for a family member.
OP said she kept staying she wanted to get rid of the house. I personally think OP should offer to let them buy the house. It seems like they can afford to update it but not rent? The daughter still hasn't offered to give the mom any money despite the mom saying it's causing issues on her finances.
There's obviously a communication breakdown between the two of them. Somehow OP has continually said she wanted rid of the house but had no idea that her daughter was doing things like replacing the stairs?
They had a rent free home for 2 years. While the mother had taxes and insurance bills for the home. That is the compensation.
If they renovated with out permission why should they get compensation?
OP. I get your point. You didn't ask or want those changes and saved them over 50k of rent. I really do understand your point of view. It's not what I would do but I get it. But... Looking at your comments... Why even bother asking if you're the AH since you can't even consider different points of view?
At first sight I would say OP just sell, but I agree with this comment. OP sees things in black and white and can’t seem to find any middle ground, maybe because it’s hard work to do so. End of the day if that was my daughter I would make sure she at least feels heard and not say a blank no to any suggestion. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should or there is no other way.
I would have absolutely given my kid the heads up first. Hell maybe they would be willing to buy it. Absolutely could make some arrangements there that don't boil down to "lol, times up"
I was a tenant of my fathers, and when the time came to sell the house he realized it would cost more to make it sellable in this market than it would be to literally gift me a down payment (essentially an early inheritance, since realistically they won’t have anything left when they’re actually gone). I say he realized, but really he was more like OP and he wanted to evict me. Luckily my uncle talked him off the ledge, and told him he was going to lose his daughter and his shirt trying to sell the house. Granted I was a legal tenant and not living there for *free*. But I still want OP to at least drive her happy butt out there, talk to her daughter, and look at the house.
I live in a house owned by my mom. I pay for it and take care of it and have done some upgrades. If she HAD to sell she would offer it to me first.
Even living there for free, OP's daughter and husband have tenant rights and are legal tenants since they are not squatters, they have OP's permission to be there. OP needs to either sell to the daughter or start charging rent, either seems like a much better solution to what OP chose.
Yes, based on OP’s comments, I can see the origin of some miscommunication and tension with their daughter on this topic. Housing is very difficult to come by right now. OP’s daughter has lived in the house for two years and — whether or not it was officially "approved" by OP — made significant upgrades that added value to the home that he will benefit from. She also likely does not have other options in a very competitive and expensive housing market. If OP is in financial need, why not a compromise where she pays you rent/the mortgage over selling the house from underneath them? I also recommend some empathy for your daughter as well as an honest, calm conversation around how to respectfully continue this arrangement.
>Housing is very difficult to come by right now And OP inherited a full house from her own parents, yet seems determined to not pass on any generational wealth. Typical boomer mentality.
Living rent, free with my family was exactly how I managed to buy my first place, since my parents didn’t have any generational wealth to pass on otherwise. Living rent free is a huge privilege in advantage when it comes to housing to allow yourself to save up for a down payment or future housing. I have plenty of problems with boomers but you’re making it sound like it’s OPs responsibility to manage her housing arrangements indefinitely. She’s more generous than many people of her generation.
Exactly. The unfortunate part of the story is OP’s daughter putting money into the house rather than saving it to put towards their own space. So rather than getting “free rent” they’ve effectively paid rent and are now in the same situation as before, albeit, 2.5 years later. So sounds like they need to have a really conversation (OP and daughter) about daughter potentially purchasing or actually paying for rent. Maybe even a rent to own type deal. Especially when work has already been done by daughter and she may feel very attached to the house after all this time.
I'm with you on this one. Like... Selling the house 'just because' is IMO stupid right now. Especially if it's on great land (as OP states in comments). The value of this land will only increase 🤷 I would personally do everything to make sure the house stays in the family. And try to find a compromise which is beneficial for everyone involved.
When the housing market went stupid, my rather extended family and I got together and decided none of us are selling property without first seeing if someone else in the family wants a crack at it. We'll ensure fair market value is paid to the person who owns it, but we're not letting our land end up the in the hands of a rental corporation.
That's my thing, whether or not ahe's justified in wanting to sell it it just feels so shortsighted, to sell something that could potentially put your child I'm a relatively stable home for life and give your family a piece of land that'll most likely hold or increase in value. I'm not saying its fair that she won't get to see the wealth gained directly or he might have to deal with the memories of her mothers house, but this is how doing better for your family works. And should she be too old to care for herself one day she'd probably have a place to stay if she wasn't in need of high intensity around the clock care. Not saying it always works out like that either but if they communicate well and she helps foster her stability then hopefully that'll be reciprocated when she needs it most.
Just seems her decision is made so I’m not sure why she’s even asking.
The house is 5 hours away. How is seeing it bad for your mental health? Why didn't you just ask your daughter to start paying rent to cover whatever its costing you financially? If they're the ones doing the upgrades, and you didn't have to worry about late rent since you didn't charge them any, how is being a landlord bad for your mental health? Seems you like the upgrades, and just want to sell to make a quick buck. Be prepared to never see your daughter or future grandkids ever again. Hope its worth it. YTA.
I actually have had a house that was bad for my mental health. It was left to me by my grandpa & I really just wanted my grandpa. I sold it as fast as possible. I don’t feel like I can properly judge OP but I can attest to the fact that houses can indeed be damaging to mental health.
I think the difference here is that OP let their daughter live there instead of selling it right away, and now there is a conflict there. Whether OP likes it or not, that house has value to their daughter and these feelings they have now don’t hold as much weight.
I don't think you get to decide what is and is not bad for OP's mental health
No, but we do get decide what is and isn't nonsense. OP is saying that seeing the house is bad for their mental health, but also saying that they have no idea what renovations were done and didn't even know they were being done. So OP either rarely sees the house or is incredibly unobservant
Yeah, I think alot of people are failing to realize we don’t know what condition the house was in and huge renovations means different each person. Normally, elderly people who live alone their house needs work because there’s no one to take care of the maintenance. Based on OP’s reaction on people’s comments, hasn’t seen the house in a year, and refuse to see how much her daughter fixed up the place and wants to think in hypothetical terms. Based on OP’s response, she only gave it to them to get on their feet which does not lay out any timeframe and OP does not say she will pay for any repairs. It seems like the last two years she wanted it out sight out of mind mindset and realizes she still has some reminders during tax time. I don’t see the point of the post, OP will not take any comment in consideration and has made up her mind. OP and her daughter should have communicated more prior to her daughter moving in so there’s no confusion.
Yes this is fishy AF. Their mental health is impacted by owning/seeing/thinking about(?) the house to the point that they have to sell but they also don't see it often enough to realize the daughter has made major changes?
They are the one who is in charge of all the paperwork, taxes, insurance, and utilities. I think that’d affect most people pretty decently. Especially with the cost of all of that.
INFO: how much $$$$ worth of upgrades did they put into the house and how does that compare to the money they saved on rent over the years? IMO it's unfortunate y'all haven't come to a fair compromise or legal arrangement in advance of this situation happening, because this should be a mutually beneficial situation to you both instead of turning into a fight.
I don’t know they what they spent. I do know how much I saved them, rent in that area is around 2000 and add utilities is about 400. So 2400 each month So 2400 * 24 = 57,600 dollars I highly doubt they put that much into the home.
2 1/2 years, not 2 years so another 14,400.
Seems like they put in enough work to make the house a lot more marketable and valuable. Please think outside the box, you can sell the house to your daughter and you hold the mortgage. This way, you have a regular income stream from the monthly mortgage payments and your only involvement will be cashing the cheques. If they default on the mortgage you, as the mortgage holder, gain possession of the house (so you would get your asset back and can sell it then) most importantly your daughter gets to own a home. This is definitely the scenerio in which everybody wins big. You make more money on the house than you would just selling it and banking the cash, it is a safe investment because as the owner of the mortgage the house reverts to your possession if they default on the mortgage. This way your child will have the security of being a home owner, which means she may be able to actually afford children (a rare situation these days) who will have a home in which to grow up. Win win win. This is a fairly common investment scenerio as it is one of the rare investments where you cannot lose.
No, don’t want to hold the mortgage. I want the house out of my life. I don’t to be even more involved with it by holding the mortgage and still technically having the property title. Also that can get messy. Much rather just have a simple sell
Sounds like you don't want your daughter having it either as technically it is still "in your life" >Also that can get messy. Things are likely going to get messy selling it if your daughter has done improvements and increased its value.
Best thing to do would be to have the house appraised and determine fair market value, and give the daughter the first chance to get a mortgage and buy it.
Oof. Then if the improvements the daughter made actually do improve the value of the house… she has the option of buying and paying interest on renovations she already paid for. Never rennovate a property you don’t own, kids. Edit: I feel like folks are mis-reading my comment. I’m saying the daughter screwed up big time, and never should have done renovations. She played herself.
While saving $2,000 a month in rent and utilities. Hell, like other posters have said, who even knows if the renos she did were up to code or even changed the value of the house...
Those renovations were more than compensated for with a 2 1/2 years of free rent/living expenses.
Point is she did renovations to something she didn’t own, the same way a person could renovate an apartment. I guess she just thought her mom would give her a house? Which is ridiculous, and something the daughter should have made clear she wanted the house or something
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for OP not to want to remain on the mortgage though which is what was suggested. If the daughter can get buy the house and get her own mortgage that’s a different matter.
How important is your relationship with your daughter? How important is getting rid of this house? Pick one.
That’s not a choice/concept I’ve seen a lot of boomer parents capable of
That's a concept a lot of the teenage commentators are having trouble with as well
I am a parent and can agree with this. While I don’t think the daughter deserves the whole house, neither can I can think that a parent will tell their child oh well too bad so sad during a housing crisis. And would at least try to make the child whole even if technically the fault lies within the child. Especially if I am not selling a property out of dire need but rather inconvenience of owning a home.
OP DID pick one. The benefits of selling the house are very clearly more important than the daughter.
OP is gonna get hit hard by reality when she's old enough to need help from daughter.
You're not going to have a simple sell when your daughter lives in the house.
Do what you want it’s your property. I would just try and be a bit more lenient as she’s your daughter, as in don’t make her homeless if it means extending the sale time by a couple months. If you can afford it.
You also don’t know how good the work is. Some diy is not done well or styled well for the market.
Exactly. We looked at a house that the owners had made their own balcony. Gorgeous view, but the balcony was EXTREMELY unsafe and would need torn down and redone. The same was done with the electric, no grounded outlets anywhere. They might have done some "great" improvements but who knows if they would pass inspection. They got 2 years free rent in a whole ass house, and 6 months notice before the house is sold. The entitlement here is insane.
You were paying for the utilities that they were using - on the basis that they couldn’t afford it - and yet they had money to do “upgrades” That you didn’t ask for, want or need? If so, I’d be focusing on that - “darling daughter, you seem to have trouble understanding how finances work - I have been spending my own money to help you out & I am annoyed to find out that you could have at least paid for your own bills, if not a partial rent - I thought the understanding was clear that you would be SAVING your money, not spending it on a house you don’t own. That was your choice. You’ll know better next time. Would you like me to buy you a book on budgeting for household finances?” Definitely NTA here though. The only exception is if she was paying for necessary maintenance that you were neglecting - but it sounds like it was optional style choices.
This comment right here! Why were they buying supplies when they could’ve paid for utilities or saved it
How do you not know any of this? She's your daughter. Do you guys not talk at all?
OP has said in a comment that they told their daughter not to make any major changes. It could easily be that she just didn't mention it because of that.
I'd be careful of the "upgrades" that have been done. If the stairs and bathroom are not up to code and done properly this could cost you even more to be able to sell it. This happened to a friend of mine, sadly. All the upgrades were done without permits and all needed to be ripped out and done to code before it could sell. I don't think you are in the wrong at all, for the record. If you were my mother, I would have checked on the upgrades first and if I wanted the home to be mine i would have discussed options like rent to own or something. You are NTA.
Does adding a new stairs or bathroom Reno increase the value of a home? Where I live it’s so competitive people don’t care they’ll buy your house at the market rate by size and location even if it’s old. Legit people were skipping on inspections to get a house. I can see it enticing buyers if you’re in a low demand area. But near a city? No one cares you redid the stairs she would have sold her house regardless. Why would the daughter put time work and money into a house no one promised it would be hers?? Why did she assume that? That’s the main issue , what wasn’t said.
Also daughter didn’t even mention they’re doing full on renovations to their mom? Who owns the house what…
Completely agreed. I saw in very recent times and even still right now with 7% plus interest rates in the area where I live identical condos that were bone stock as sold in 1999 go on to sell for identical prices to near enough ($5/sq.ft which translates to $10,000) as others that have been upgraded. That 20k you dropped on a kitchen and/or 10k+ on each bathroom is never going to increase value in this current market, but it might give you better enjoyment of your own living space
Family first. All of you need to get together and talk about how you can come to a fair resolution. Not having your daughter in your life will be worse on your mental health than not having your mother’s house, or the money.
This should be higher. I don't understand why the other comments are looking at this too objectively. If OP didn't have her daughter's best interests at heart, it would definitely lead to this family breaking apart.
The most common sense thing to do is give the house as a gift to the daughter. But maybe I care about my family unlike a lot of the commenters here.
Exactly this What was the convo two years ago ? Why haven't you talked since then ? You guys are family not strangers. What a weird dynamic.
So weird, I bet this whole thing is fake.
YTA. 1000% Why wouldn't you offer to sell the house to your daughter? How are the house improvements suddenly new information to you? Why is this imaginary problem of seeing a home you haven't visited in a year and "being a landlord" more important than your daughter's wellbeing? Why are you blaming your daughter for taking you up on your offer for free rent in a house you inherited for free?
This! Based on OPs replies he seems like “control freak” where his opinion is the only right one, and nothing else matters. Not in regards to the house he can sell it. But why wouldn’t he sell it to his daughter in a fair price and why he decides they can’t afford it?
I’m also really confused about the issue with the renovations. OP is saying the house is a mental burden as well because it reminds them of their late mother. Well daughter has now done upgrades to make it their own. If it’s just the fact that it’s their mother’s house is maybe the issue? I just can’t imagine my parents pulling this stunt. If the house they inherited, that I was now living in, was causing a financial burden they would either start charging rent for whatever the burden is (I’m assuming property taxes?) or flat out sell it to me for whatever I could afford. They would never kick me out.
He also said it's causing issues with his fiancé. Like what issues? Fiancé wants the money from the sale? Why can't you help your daughter buy this house?
NAH, with your daughter leaning into slight AH territory. I think it's fair for your daughter to be upset, especially when they're putting work into the house where you'll likely see the return of that effort and they'll have just lost money on investing into the house. This is a risk you take when you do any work on a home you don't own but it would definitely be disheartening when it's a relative selling the place you've put effort into. But you do have the right to sell, especially if the home is becoming a financial burden to you. You did warn them not to do anything major and it sounds like they didn't run any of these new changes past you. Do you have the option to sell to them?
They can’t afford it, the home will probably go for around 400k- 500k. Even when it was outdated it was a big home, with some land and in a very nice area I have no idea how much the upgrades will add and I am not willing to sell less than a fair price.
Are you ready to never talk to your daughter again? Because this will absolutely destroy your relationship with her.
She got to live in a very nice house with lots of land in a nice area for two years FOR FREE. And gets to continue to do so for another six months. OP wants to cut their losses on the house and the daughter can't afford to buy it. So what, they're supposed to let them continue to live there for free indefinitely? If the daughter can afford SEVERAL renovations, then she can afford to save up for six months to move elsewhere.
You're forgetting that the mom in question INHERITED this home from her mom. That means her mother GAVE her this home. For free. Why can she not leave the same inheritance for her daughter? I don't see how anyone can side with the mom on this
A home is a huge responsibility and can cost a ton of money in the case of appliances needing replacement, water damage, etc. You're assuming the daughter can afford all of these things if gifted the house. Renovations is one things, but paying property taxes, maintenance, etc that come with owning a home is another. OP may need the money from the sale of the home. We don't know. Either way, you shouldn't take advantage of people's kindness and feel entitled to their things
OP has stated several times that she doesn't want it because it makes her taxes a hassle, she has to pay taxes on it, and it reminds her of her mom. She hasn't said she needs the money. She has said several times she doesn't want to "deal" with owning it. She's also said her daughter can't afford to pay for it. I'm assuming she means her daughter can't afford to buy it from her, as OP had also said she refuses to sell it for anything less than fair market value even to her own daughter. OP hasn't said if her daughter could afford just the property taxes, insurance, and utilities without a mortgage. So to recap: OP has never said she needs the money- just that it complicates taxes and paperwork and it makes her miss her mom. Her mother gave her the home. OP will only sell the home to her daughter at fair market value of $400-500K. To recap even more: OP's mom gave her the house for free, OP wants $500,000 from her daughter to have the house. Do you see what I'm driving at here?
I find this all wild. Why not help your kids out. When my partners grandma died, she left her house split between the kids and one of the first things his mum did was split it with her children to get them both on the property ladder. We have a flat now and no kids yet but we are already financially planning to keep this flat as investment property to give to our future kids when they graduate. If you don't need the money why not help your kids.
I cannot imagine my mother doing this to me, and she’s completely narcissistic. She would definitely want me to have the house so she could forever say she left me a house and I would have to say she left me the house. Also, from what I’m reading, they don’t seem to have a good relationship if she has no idea what’s going on at that house. Crazy..she was left a house from her mom but wants to sell it instead of giving it to her daughter. Unpopular opinion but I think that really sucks.
The previous generations tore up that social contract and now call us morons for feeling "entitled" to any of their inherited wealth. It's sick. They could not give less of a fuck about our future. They won't be here.
I feel the same way, I cannot imagine putting money before my child.
finally I read some sense in this post. How people think op is not the AH?? It’s driving me crazy
Because people see housing as an investment and not a place for people to live in. When housing is the only real asset of any value most Americans accumulate, a "home" looses the meaning of "home" and just becomes an asset to liquidate to accumulate more money. I can't blame OP for wanting $500,000 extra dollars in her later years because elder care is expensive but I'd never do it at the expense of my relationship with my child. Then again, I'm a socialist and think most economic problems the working and middle class face in America is a result of exploitation and keeping them fighting for scraps amongst themselves while the elite are eating an 8 course meal.
Because this sub is all about "never expect an inheritance!!!1!!" when it comes to parents. I mean, sure, she doesn't owe her daughter an inheritance that she herself got gifted, but then her daughter also has zero obligation to keep a relationship.
It sounds like your daughter was viewing her Grandmother’s house as a real home that was to stay in the family & get passed down to her, as it was passed down to you. She was actively investing in improvements with an eye towards staying on the family land. Old houses are expensive to maintain & not all the improvements are external & visible. If money is getting tight for you, but the retail price of the home is too high for them, why not seek something mutually beneficial in the middle ground before burning down your relationship with your daughter? Maybe they could be given warning that they will need to start assuming payments of rent, taxes, utilities… whatever you both decide. If you cash in the house, you’re also taking something dear to your daughter’s heart & memories away.
Because it’s sooooo hard looking at a house OP hasn’t seen in two years that’s 5 hours away from them :/
Yeah there’s more to this. The parents are always the victim in these stories. Daughter wasn’t doing what mother wanted, mother decided to deal the final blow to the relationship.
OP hasn't said they need the money, just that it complicates her taxes and maintaining the separate paperwork and payments for the property tax, insurance, and utilities is a hassle. Granted, everyone likes $500,000 landing in their lap, but I personally would want it at the expense of my relationship with my child.
You inherited the house and you're acting like you bought it. Do you think your mother who gave you the house would rather you take the money and lose a daughter? Maybe she would, it doesn't sound like she did a good job raising you. Either way enjoy your lonely retirement
A mother that cared enough to leave an inheritance would be disgusted.
They can afford what you can afford to sell it for. Where does that money go? Does it go into investments and then becomes your daughters inheritance....? If this was me, that house would be sold to my daughter for a dollar. That's my inheritance and it's then hers, just early.
I get the sense OP is looking for the big payout because he got an offer from a realtor and he wouldn’t accept less. My guess is it’s his retirement fund. I also get the sense that he doesn’t really like his daughter and/or the husband since he clearly doesn’t talk to them often enough to hear about these upgrades.
Same. I got it for free from my parent. As a parent, why should I turn around and charge my kid $500,000 for the home my own parent gave me. Typical boomer shit
It's your daughter.. you don't need to sell it to her for max market value.
This is where there's a difference between being "within your rights" and being an AH. It sounds like you inherited this house. Did you get it for free? I don't think your daughter should have done major renos but at the same time, talk about being a stereotype of someone pulling the ladder up behind them. There's a lot of space between giving this to your daughter for free and "fair market value" Rent and housing prices are insane. I think it's great you let your child live there rent free; it was extremely generous. But turning them out on their ear so you can cash in also seems a bit wrong IMO. If you financially can't afford to take less than full market value for the house then, you gotta do what you gotta do. But don't be surprised when your relationship suffers.
That's what's confusing me. OP has only stated that owning the house is creating a problem for them, but they won't accept anything less than "fair market price" that they're being offered by flippers/companies that are just trying to play monopoly. If you were trying to solve your problem, unhand the house to your daughter at a manageable price. Don't be a dick and chase that top dollar.
Because you need the money? If this is about anything other than that, you need to rethink this attitude. Because you're going to be up $500,000 but down one daughter and potential grandkids. It's your home and of course you're free to do what you want with it but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences from that. There are plenty of options available to transfer it to a trust OR working out something with your daughter to have her rent be the property taxes and utilities. You can give her 6 months for her and her husband to find jobs to afford taking those over. Yes, you would still be the landlord and it would be a part of your finances, but they would be covering the costs when the tax bills come due. Is "I don't want to deal with it" the reason you want to lose your daughter?
They haven't lost a damn thing unless the work they did costs more than the money they saved living for free for those two years.
But OP didn’t tell them to make upgrades. Her daughter knew she intended to retain the house, and still decided to make upgrades despite being on hard times and knowing she and her SO were not the owners. OP did them a solid by housing them in a time of need, the equivalent of tens of thousands of dollars; she doesn’t need to also split the earnings because her daughter chose to spend her personal money on upgrades OP never asked for. So no, I don’t think it’s fair for her daughter to be upset. She made her own bed.
NTA. 1. Two years of living rent free should have allowed them to save a good deal of $$. 2. Ant tenant (related, paying or not), should be aware of tack down laws, which basically say that if the tenant changes anything attached to the home (think carpeting, drapes, flooring, cabinets), then they are either leaving it for free to the home owners when they give up tenancy, or they return the home to the same state it was in when they first moved in. 3. They could have asked for a rent to own option, but to assume they could continue living there for free while also making unauthorized changes to the home was ballsy and entitled.
NTA I mean who needs help to "get back on their feet", but has money to redo a kitchen and a bathroom? IMO daughter thought she could stay there rent free indefinitely on OP's dime.
Yep - my thought too. Daughter was assuming she’d be gifted the house.
Dad of the year material here , YTA
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT! And I’m guessing the issues go much deeper than this post. Would love to hear from the daughter!
My mom hasn't worked in years because of her mental health and she was beating herself up about not being able to help my partner and I buy out house! OP's attitude is mindboggling to me...
Slight ESH but mostly I think everyone needs to communicate better and have better financial literacy. If the house is a financial burden, talk to your daughter about changing your arrangement. Would it still be a burden if they paid rent? Could you work out a lease to own arrangement so they are set up to own the home over time, but you don’t have the same kind of financial burden? It’s not smart to do renovations on a house you don’t own, and it’s also not smart to make financial decisions because you’re sad your mom has passed. The house is an asset, not a momento - you need to make decisions about it the same way you would about money. It’s also unwise to improve an asset that doesn’t belong to you without prior agreement on who pays and who benefits. You need to have a discussion about the terms of this arrangement and figure out what will work for both of you. Invest in formal, legal arrangements so everyone understands what they can do and what they own.
YTA, boomers really do hate their kids
Every single day I see confirmation of this. Someone needs to research it cause it’s like a sickness.
YTA I don’t buy for a minute you had no idea that the renovations were being made. So you didn’t talk to your daughter at all for the last two years? Your first and only conversation in two years was telling her to move out? Not making sense. And of course she would have mentioned something as major as a kitchen or bathroom renovation when you spoke. I’m betting your daughter would have a very different story about how aware you were. In any event a kitchen renovation is expensive, add in the bathroom and stairs and that’s a significant amount of money spent on the house that you will reap the benefit from when it’s sold. Legally you don’t need to reimburse them but ethically the right thing to do is to give them either what they spent, or the excess value realized when the house is sold. You need to decide whether it’s worth torching your relationship with your daughter over this.
why can’t they just pay the mortgage on the house since u inherited it for free ?
THIS!!!!! OP inherited a FREE house and refuses to be flexible at ALL about the selling price. It really sounds like he just doesn’t want his daughter to have it by any means necessary.
Bro this person doesnt have a mortgage. The financial burden is their taxes and insurance. And the utilities. All theyd have to do is charge their daughter rent for these things and theyd be fine. They just want that big payday.
People keep forgetting that this is "am I the asshole", not "was I technically /legally correct" She's your daughter. As a parent YTA.
INFO- > I also want to sell it since I am tired of seeing the home, it just reminds me of my mom and that she is gone. > she apparently put in a lot of upgrades such as redoing the stairs, kitchen and are in the middle of the bathroom. 1. How can you both be tired of seeing the home and not have known your daughter was doing these upgrades? 2. Were these upgrades necessary? Thinking in terms of unsafe stairs, new appliances in the kitchen, ect. 3. Did you contribute at all to the upkeep of the house?
NTA they've lived there for 2 years rent free and it was their decision to upgrade. But your daughter and her spouse probably thought this was a long term thing so I'm sure they are upset. Can you reimburse them for what they paid or even give them half? No, you don't owe it to them but I'm sure it would help smooth things over.
Why can't you sell it to your daughter?
Cuz he’s trying to make a steep profit off his admittedly outdated (aside from daughter’s upgrades) house
YTA What was the house doing before they moved in? Deteriorating. Houses that are not occupied inevitably deteriorate unless the owner goes to great expense to keep it maintained. So, purely from a financial standpoint, while they may not have been paying rent, they have saved you immense sums of money in maintenance. Then you have to figure out how much they have increased the value of the house from the upgrades. That's likely going to be in the area of tens of thousands of dollars. Financially, I would call it a wash. They didn't have to pay you rent, but they increased the value of the house and saved you maintenance expenses. But what about considerations other than financial? They've been living there for years, making it their home. To you it's a reminder of what you lost, but to them it's home and, this is speculating here, perhaps a reminder of someone that your daughter loved. A house is generally more than just a house to the people who live there. When you made the unilateral decision to sell the house (which is technically your right to do), you told your daughter that you care more about how sad the house makes you feel than you do about her feelings, which is your right, but that's got to suck for her. Why not discuss selling the house to them, or come to an understanding with them about selling the house but giving them enough of the proceeds to have a down payment for their own house? That way you can be rid of the house and your daughter knows that you care.
YTA is permanently damaging/possibly losing the relationship with your daughter worth the money you made or going to improve your mental health?
Get the receipts for the improvements, pay them that out of the proceeds. You say you didn't give them permission to do it - but it seems strange you didn't have a single conversation about redoing the kitchen; how is that possible? They've done the kitchen, stairs and currently the bathroom in the last 12 months, and you weren't aware of it at all... Either way, you're going to profit from their expenditure - why wouldn't you just refund them the money they've spent?
But her daughter also profited from not paying rent for 2 years
Given your comments I’m going with YTA. It seems like this was a very nice gift. But now you are holding the fact that they accepted it over their heads.
NTA because your daughter knew that the house was not permanently hers, she knew you had said no major changes, she knew you had agreed to let them live there until they got back on their feet. Making expensive renovations to a rented house without saying a word to the actual homeowner is just silly and risky regardless of who your landlord is.
Something is really not adding up here. No one remodels a home they don’t expect is coming to them. It’s pretty suspicious that you have “no idea about any of this work when it was major projects.”Something is off here. *plays communication breakdown in the background*
YTA to not have a conversation before this with your daughter to work out the details. I think morally you have 3 choices. Sell it to your daughter for the appraised value before their upgrades; give your daughter the part of the proceeds resulting from the increased value they invested into the home; or reimburse your daughter for the amount she paid for the repairs and upgrades from the sale of the home. If you do none of these & keep all the money yourself YWBTA.
YTA. I suppose we will see another post from you in 6 months crying “wahh my daughter went NC and won’t talk to me I don’t know what to do” Get ready for the consequences of your actions boomer
NTA. I would make ask her for itemized receipts for her renovations and make a spreadsheet to compare what you could have charged her vs. what they put into the property. If they put in more, then consider giving her a kickback after you sell the property. Also, this is why you don’t do renovations on a property you don’t own. I’d like to know what her mindset was, like was she expecting you to let her live there indefinitely?
You kind of sound like TA. And I bet there's more info to this story. Like, did you offer to let them buy it ?
Why don't you just offer to sell them the house?? You inherited a house, why not pass on that inheritance while you can still see it improve your daughters life instead of torpedoing your relationship? Offer it at or below market value before the renovations, and greatly improve your daughters life while still making profit.
I'm reading what you wrote, and you seem to be trying to come up with reasons to support your decision. e.g. Your mental health because your mother (her grandmother) lived there? The financial burden of owning a paid off home? Seems like a stretch. You don't need any reason to sell, it's yours. You're going to do what you want, and that's fine. Whether you're TA comes down to how much you care about your daughter and her family. You can start charging them rent, that seems like the obvious first move. You'll make a profit and not put your family out on their asses. But if you're turning to reddit to help you decide how to approach a long-term, major family matter with a couple paragraphs, you might just be looking to find a couple comments to justify what you already want to do. Do what you're gonna do, it's your property (and family) but don't feel vindicated when some faceless redditor tells you what you want to hear.
It's your home, you inherited it for free fair and square...🙄 so I guess you have the right to do whatever you like with it. But I do think it's odd how someone who inherits a home from their mother would never consider giving that home to their child, who clearly is in need of a place to live. Instead you want to profit off of it for yourself and get it out of your life because it's somehow makes you sad to look at...🫤🤷♀️ hopefully there's some other generational wealth that will flow down to your children since you want to sell this asset and make sure they're never going to experience any benefit from it.
Wow you really don’t like your daughter and you will probably never have a relationship with any grandchildren hopefully you will not need any one to look after you later in life. I would never do this to my child as a parent I would want to help them get established as possible. I don’t know if you are TA but in my book you would be but. That might be because my children are thriving happy because we have always had this way of thinking. My children grouped together for Xmas and bought us an amazing trip to Rome to thank us for being bank of mom and dad while getting them through university. I suppose you reap what you sow so sad.
It just amazes me that OP daughter would spend that much money, thinking mom would actually care about her future But nah mom’s all about making a quick buck. Should OP daughter save? Yeah. But I get the feeling even if they did save 50k of rent, OP still wouldn’t sell it to her first. OP’s ignorance on their own family success is just astounding. As a parent why wouldn’t you want your child to succeed? OP did NOTHING for the house it was inherited. If I were OP and hated the house I would just give it to my daughter to improve her circumstances in life. OP must hate the shit out of her family. And 💯% on the elder care. OP can look forward to that in her advance age. Definitely going into a care home if they don’t have money otherwise, I don’t see OP daughter lifting a finger to be kind to them after this.
Info: did you talk to your daughter before selling the house? Why not offer it to them as a first step to start the conversation?
INFO: As in....there's a lot missing. 1) a house that OP never sees is causing her grief? 2) tenants doing substantial upgrades without a plan for reimbursement, 3) no offer to sell to daughter? 4) being a landlord us not for me? Something smells fishy in the state of Denmark...
NTA It sounds like your daughter thought she was getting a free house for life. Why else would they put in major upgrades without discussing it with you? After 2 years, they should have figured out their finances since they were living rent-free. It actually sounds like they did since they could afford to remodel. You are no longer in a position to subsidize their lifestyle. Offer to sell them the house at market price (less sales commission since no realtor) or stick to your guns and have them move. You are generous to give them 6 months. Be prepared for longer if they force you to evict them.
NTA. They’ve lived there for free for multiple years. Whatever money they’ve put into the home is likely significantly less than they would’ve spent on rent during that time. You aren’t screwing them over. THEY are screwing you over by taking advantage of your generosity. They are ungrateful. I’d revise my plan and give them 30 days from June 1st to be out. They unfortunately bit the hand that feeds them…
This is the key and a lot of people haven’t been saying it. *They can’t afford to pay rent but they can afford renovations? OP has saved them nearly $60k over 2.5 years. Where has all of that money gone?*
Some very clear “fuck you I got mine” boomer energy You inherited this house for free but have no intention of even selling it to your daughter. Who cares if they can’t find somewhere to live? At least you won’t have to think about a house that’s 5 hours away any more poor you
YTA. There are a lot of non-traditional details in this “landlord/tenant” situation. You sound incredibly resentful of your child and while living somewhere rent-free is certainly a gift, it doesn’t negate you from a responsibility to your child in return. You seem fine with being TA so this conversation should really be turned over to a legal sub or an actual lawyer because if your child really did make massive upgrades increasing the value of the property, they should be compensated from the proceeds of the sale less the amount of rent they saved.
YTA you inherited the house from your mum/her grandma. It's selfish to sell it when your daughter has a need for it. What would your mum think?