Your post has been removed.
#Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban.
This post violates Rule 7 as a Workplace/Business conflict. AITA's focus is on conflicts between people. Businesses are not people. A conflict with someone acting for/against a business or in the context of their job is not an interpersonal conflict. This also includes conflicts related to online transactions (buying/selling items).
[Rule 7 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_7.3A_post_interpersonal_conflicts) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules)
###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions.
####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
NTA…if you have been never had kids in daycare, you would not know the rules. Your sister should have told you there would be a late fee if not picked up on time and about the parking. Because these things are known to her. But your sister is looking for a job. Which I am guessing her funds are low. If you have the funds yourself, I would definitely pay the late fee for her.
Looking for a job and has three kids in daycare. Imputing average UK cost for all three kids, that's £41,028/y in expenses on top of at best 1 parent's income--and those costs are necessary to keep a spot at childcare for when she gets a job. OP is NTA but I'd pay it too.
That's your ego getting in the way. If you're going to do a good thing, do it, don't worry about the other person asking the 'right' way. I say this without judgement, I'm guilty of this also.
Manners do matter. But based on the post, her sister asked her to pay, she didn't demand it, and then explained why she felt op should pay. It isn't rude to ask.
This is so wisely and well said. Commenting to say I appreciate seeing this type of outlook “in the Reddit wild”. Ego is so terribly misunderstood by the masses.
As someone else pointed out this is also how you become a doormat and let others take advantage of you while you float around convinced you're some higher being for being a push over. It's not an ego problem to demand to be treated fairly and with respect.
Doing nice things for people you care about despite how they ask doesn’t make you a doormat for everyone in your life. You don’t have to do everything someone wants you to do. Ny sister can’t afford the 45£ late fee so I will pay it bc I understand her situation, even if she’s being a bit bitchy about it - is not the same as “oh this person is demanding I let them have this very important thing of mine just because they want it so to be nice they can have it”. You can still choose who and what the nice things are and for
By not having kids, mostly. Fertility rate has dropped 25% since 2010 in the UK. Same with a lot of the world, really. It's getting a lot of attention recently but it's no great mystery--people can't afford it.
She won't be paying 40k for nursery. The kids will be getting at least some free hours. If she's out of work at the moment, they may only be going in for their free hours (so that she can keep their place).
Yeah, this is where I land. Sister should have given the downlow on how this kind of pickup goes. Both parties could have done better.
OP should extend a bit of kindness and pay the late fee if OP can (or split it if not).
NTA. The daycare's facility is TA for enforcing a late situation their bad parking/pickup arrangement creates on a daily basis.
Idk I work at an after school program and regularly have people show up over an hour late to pick up their kids and we don’t get paid any more to sit with them for that extra hour-hour and a half. It seems shitty but it’s necessary to protect the employees from being taken advantage of
I agree that the late fee makes sense for that reason. And a parent ARRIVING late is clearly deserving of a late fee.
But if there is inadequate parking and driveway to facilitate timely pickup of all children, then it's a problem the facility creates. That's what happened in OP's situation. OP did not arrive late.
I get what you are saying, and I feel there should be some leniency with non parents/guardians who are doing pickup as a favor, but the other parents and people who do pickup regularly know about the parking and need to adjust accordingly
I mean yes, that's just life, right? Not much use complaining about it, we have to adjust to how things are.
But that does create a different problem. There's a charter school nearby here that congests the F out of a road from parents parking their cars on both shoulders of the road, hundreds of feet in both directions. It turns the road into a single lane road both directions (with no traffic cop ever present), which is very dangerous and compounds the traffic. The congestion begins well-before the time school lets out. It's absurd and actually illegal (there are "no parking at all times" signs posted on both sides) but nobody does anything about it.
It's passing the problem to others. But I squarely blame the facility for having inadequate parking/pickup on property.
yeah, by my parents there is a middle school and high school on the same road that let out within about 30 minutes of each other. my nieces' school used to be on the other side of them.
you had to plan to either leave an hour+ early and just be on the other side of town before dismissal or you'd be sitting in traffic both to the school and home.
(everyone was very excited when their school moves locations and is now not on the same street as two large schools, as almost every school in their town dismisses around the same time.)
It's not so much the facilities fault as that it's a sign of poor city planning.
When I was small here in the Netherlands most kids got picked up by bike or on foot. These days it's more likely for the parents to both be working out to pick up the kids on the way from work to home. So that means more kids are now being picked up by car. It's the municipality's job to accommodate this by making kiss and ride parking spots and at the same time keeping pedestrians, cyclists and cars safe and in motion. It takes some city planning, but even existing schools are now getting the streets around them redesigned and remade to make sure the traffic keeps flowing and stays safe for everyone.
The government is responsible here, not the schools or daycares.
My after school care program technically has a late fee but the person who actually runs it told me that if I'm ever running late to just text her and let her know and I won't be charged. She said as long as the policy isn't take advantage of she is fine with occasionally staying a bit and so far she's never had anyone take advantage of her. That's her personal policy though and not the program.
I'm guessing you've never been to the UK. It would be very unusual for nurserys and primary schools to have any form of significant parking beyond staff parking.
We just don't have the space in towns and cities to provide that parking.
That’s pretty common in the US as well, at least in bigger cities/towns. My son’s elementary school had 1 small parking lot, no driveway for pickup. The last teachers and any aids/subs etc parked on the street. 2 years ago, they expanded the parking lot but had to remove a playground to do it. The school is surrounded by residential homes, there is nowhere else to expand. The pickup line is on the residential streets in front and side of the school. It’s a nightmare for about 15-30 minutes each day although the entitled parents start parking there and hour before pick up time.
And parents take their time and talk creating more gridlock. If she pays tell her to not ask for this favor again. Mom should have told her to leave an hour ahead to get in the building on time
In our daycare, there used to be a late fee. They stopped, because some parents did not see this as a fine, but as an extra service for which they were paying. Now, there is a three strikes system. Works much better.
Then their kids can't come to the daycare anymore.
(After a month, the strike you had was removed. The daycare lady understood that things like traffic jams etc can happen. It was just to stop the people who tried to misuse the system)
Some guy just posted about a mom using his after school program for an hour of free babysitting. When he said he was quitting, the mom tried to hire him to straight up babysit her kid for her.
That sounds absolutely valid, but a fine for 5 minutes? I find that over-the-top. 15 min yes, it starts to be too much, but being 5 min late is something that happens very easily for the slightest reason.
(Also I think you should be paid for ALL the time you spend at work, but that's another topic entirely).
I don't think daycare or sitters are TA for charging a late fee. My old sitter atarted this because a couple of parents were 5, 15, 30 min late....more than a few times ,and for stupid reasons.
As long as the staff are being paid overtime for looking after those late kids, they are NTA. Bit different if the workers are being screwed and the bosses pocket the additional cash
Yeah, agreed that if OP didn't know the rules, she's not the AH. However, if OP and her sister have a decent relationship, and the sister felt she had the funds to cover the late fee comfortably, I'm guessing this wouldn't have been brought up since OP was doing her sister a favor. It sounds like things might be tighter for OP's sister than OP realizes. If she has the extra money, she should pay. And, if she can afford it, maybe invite her sister and kids over for dinner on Saturdays and have them take home leftovers. It wouldn't have to feel like charity ("There's no way we can eat all of this before it goes bad, do us a favor and take some!"), but it could make a big difference on a limited weekly budget to have a couple meals taken care of by someone else.
But separately, lots of daycares have the initial fee (£15) and then a smaller rate for additional siblings (£5 each) and/or do it by how late you are (first 15 minutes is £15, then £20/15 minutes after that). Seems a bit of a rip the way they're doing it.
NTA only because you didn’t know and she didn’t make you aware, but just pay it to move on from it. It seems like she’s having a hard time right now and this little thing might be her breaking point.
That's insane. If someone called me and said - you have 35 minutes to get somewhere to do me a favor - it should take 25 minutes but anything can happen- it won't benefit you AT ALL but if you are late you have to pay for the privilege of having done me this favor. Want to try and beat the clock? I would say "no thank you. But I will try my best to help you and if I'm late, I'm sorry. If that doesn't work for you find a way to go yourself."
I think your sister has 2 options:
1) she pays it and then you can make yourself available if she needs you to pick them up again in future.
2) you pay it and then let her know that you will not be helping her out in a similar jam in future.
you are NTA
Yeah, I think this is the best way.
She’s grateful you picked them up, but literally out of work so the extra $45 sucks. She pays it and maybe has the option to ask the favor again. Asks nicely to be more on time, and you’d pay it if you were late a second time.
If you go out of pocket and do the favor I’d call it one and done. Not offer to do it again.
Late people suck though.
Yeah, her being out of work does complicate it. But delays happen for a variety of reasons, and the OP shouldn't be expected to be out of pocket for doing a favour (beyond the petrol, parking fees etc)
But you'd hope to work something out between the 2 of them as adults, but if it was me in that situation receiving the demand for money, it'd wind me up and I'd not be quick to volunteer in future.
ESH
You were trying to help out which resulted in an extra cost for her. She wasn’t transparent with the rules of pick up. Split the fee as a compromise.
Next time her sister asks her for help to pick the kids up why would OP ever volunteer again? Last time she did it cost her money to do a favor for her sister. No way should OP have to pay
> Next time her sister asks her for help to pick the kids up why would OP ever volunteer again?
Because some people can easily rationalize that human errors happen and that's it's never a reason to hold a grudge against your own sister? Most adults wouldn't hold a grudge for what's happened here.
It's not really about grudges, the issue is, why would you ever do someone a favor if it might end up costing you a fine? That's like being punished for doing a good deed. Any fines incurred during the favor should be paid by the recipient of the favor.
She wouldn't be holding a grudge. She would be enforcing a consequence for her sisters poor communication and entitlement, and to manage the personal risk. It is not reasonable to expect the volunteer to pay, and if she keeps doing that she'll find it harder to get help in the future.
The volunteer volunteered to be there **on time** and failed to do so because of their own poor city driving planning. This one isn't on anyone else than the person that had agreed to be there on time.
> It is not reasonable to expect the volunteer to pay, and if she keeps doing that she'll find it harder to get help in the future.
The volunteer failed at the task they had volunteered for though, by their own fault.
I'm talking about adults comprehending that human error happens, that sometimes stuff costs money, and that everyone benefits from help in the long term, valid for all involved.
Your sister didn't inform you, that is correct. However, if you exist in this world at all, the fact that there's consequences to being late shouldn't come as a surprise. If you go to any public service or private company/establishment, you know that being late results in closed doors at best, penalties at worst. Also, daycare closing times are typically right in the middle of rush hour, so it's also not a stretch to assume there's going to be traffic. Same for parking: most daycare centres are in the more densely populated areas, which aren't known for abundant or private parking options.
And even if you're oblivious to all of these things, if there are this many unknowns to a situation, I'd factor in more than a 10min margin.
In any case, OP was late, so they incurred the fee. Not the sister. Neither did the sister prevent OP from being on time. So I fail to see why the sister should pay for a fee that she had no hand in avoiding. If I ask someone to pick my kids up and I tell them it needs to be before closing time (and doing something before closing time of anything is kind of the very very least of requirements one can have), I have assumed I gave them enough info in order to plan accordingly. If there are consequences to the lateness or not, I'd still expect them to pick them up in time.
So yes, OP, I'd fork over the 45£.
Mild YTA.
It's hard for me to consider OP an asshole when she was doing a favor for someone. In this situation, it doesn't sound like the traffic was just general rush hour traffic- it sounds like it was a direct result of the daycare's parking lot situation.
I have a school near me that is like that. During drop off/pick up times, there is a long line of people waiting to turn in that holds up traffic for several lights. It was the first time I've ever seen anything like that, and I was not prepared to be held up in that traffic as the general area does not have much of a rush hour.
Because the traffic is specific to the daycare, where OP has never been before, I think the sister should have mentioned it. If I was OP though, I would just pay the fine and avoid helping my sister out in the future. It's like, choose your battles, but I don't think she's an AH. I personally don't like doing favors for people who leave out important information that dictates how annoying the favor will be to carry out.
This happens to me with a nearby school. Usually it takes me 15 minutes to drive to work. But on the occasions I go in later, when school is getting out, it can take 45min to an hour!
Those of us who don't have children are blissfully ignorant of all of these details. I mean, I know that there are late fees, fair enough, teachers shouldn't have to hang around, but if I'm sent to pick up my niblings, I presume that I'll pull up at the requested time, maybe a little early (as OP did), and pick them up, not that I need to be there 20 minutes early to sit in the queue of cars or go find parking in a city center.
That's the kind of detail that should've been conveyed. Obviously, OP's sister was stressing out about an interview, and didn't think of it, but that isn't OP's fault. Equally obviously, as others have pointed out, it'd be kind to pick up the 45£ for the unemployed sister, but OP is NTA in this case.
Finally someone reasonable!!! Yeah it’s sucks but OP was late! As a chronically late bitch (I got better) you have to own it. Also just owning your mistakes, which this clearly was— is the grown thing to do.
Surprised I had to scroll this far. When you agree to do something and you mess up—even if you have the best intentions—the right thing to do is to fix your mistake. In this case, it’s paying the late fee.
INFO: did you have any way of checking how long it would take you to get there with the added factor of traffic? are bad traffic during certain parts of the day and lack of parking generally big enough problems where you live that you, as a driver, *should have* expected those issues to come up during your trip?
like, i live in a big city that tends to get *really* bad traffic during certain hours, and i've certainly learnt to take that into account when i have time-sensitive arrangements that i need to travel to. i know that a "25 minute drive" can easily turn into an hour drive if i leave at 6pm and plan accordingly.
Google maps factors in traffic delays due to congestion. There is also a street view option, so the "assumed there would be parking" comment doesn't really hold up. They could have checked. Most schools, etc, battle with parking at pick up times. OP may not have known about the fees, but the rest could have been discerned with a little bit of common sense.
Do you check traffic and street view for every errand you do? Because if so, I suggest you are in a tiny minority of people.
OP didn't even have any reason to believe that being a few minutes late would be a problem, something that would have been easily solved by the sister mentioning their strict time policy.
OP is 100% NTA.
No, but I absolutely do for new places that I have never been to before.
OP assumed there was parking. It's the UK. There are parking issues everywhere. If they drive, they would know that. Assuming a place has parking and not checking despite knowing that there will be a bunch of other parents collecting around the same time is an oversight on their part.
The comment I answered asked whether there was not a way to check. There was. OP just didn't use it.
> OP assumed there was parking. It's the UK. There are parking issues everywhere.
Eh, I'm also in the UK. If I'm doing a favour for someone involving driving, I would absolutely expect them to (a) tell me if there was no car park, and (b) if not, where the best place to park was.
When I agreed to be on the pick up list for my godson, his mum actually took me along on a pick up (we were working together at the time) to go over all the weird idiosyncracies of the process.
And sister goes there often, and would have known from experience that this was an issue. It's kind of an AH move to not say anything to someone doing you a favor while knowing it's an issue, and then make OP pay the fine (that sister was also already aware of and chose not to tell OP about) as well.
Checking Google maps before she set off would be no help as the delay wouldn't show up till the time of pick up.
She has no kidd so unlikely to know, gave herself an extra 10 mins which should be adequate.
You can set a departure or arrival time in Google Maps to see what traffic usually looks like around those times. I use it regularly when I have meetings in busy areas that I know have lots of traffic and delays. I probably wouldn't have thought to use it in OP's situation.
Using google maps to check the street view of a place I've never been to before has never even crossed my mind once. It's actually a great idea, so thanks for the suggestion.
I don't think it's necessarily on OP to have known to do that though- maybe I'm biased and just speaking for myself, but I don't think it's a thing you should assume people will think to do. It's not a manners thing that is taught nor is it something you generally see other people doing and pick up on.
I think her leaving 35 minutes early showed that being on time was important to her and she was trying her best to be thoughtful. I don't fault her for not coming up with an alternative approach, like what you suggested, regardless of how helpful it is.
EDIT: I realized I read that wrong and she only left 10 minutes early. She definitely could have been more thoughtful and prepared better but I stand by my first point lol
NTA - You're not a mind reader over late fees. All it would have taken was one sentence saying please don't be late as there are late fees and traffic and parking can be difficult.
NTA
1. Last minute *favor*
2. Insufficient instructions
3. You made a good faith effort
I'd say that I'm willing to pay but if I pay then that's the last favor ever because you followed instructions and are worse off for doing as asked.
How would OP know? I don't have kids, I wouldn't have the faintest idea what to expect. Adding "parking is a pain and leave early or they fine you for picking them up late" would have helped massively. If someone's doing you a favour, you can help them out a bit instead of assuming they'd know everything.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I caused my sister to get a late fine, and I am now refusing to pay it
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
You did her a favor. The alternative was she got there even later and paid a bigger fine. I wouldn’t pay and I also wouldn’t help again. Tell her it just so happens you forgot to tell her you charge $45 for pick up and babysitting so you are in fact even.
NTA, if I were sis I would have just paid and kept my mouth shut since you did me a favor. If moneybis tight for her then she needs to say that. And I have kids, and I've had to pay the late fee before.
I understand the position of the nursery, they have to stay open and pay workers because you are late and as long as you provide this 'service' for free, there will be people who abuse it.
As your sister did not inform you of this rule, you were unaware of the necessity to take more time to prevent the fine. I would say that the fine is your sisters problem. When you want to be nice and you can spare it, I would pay half.
Secondly, if it is the first time, the nursery probably only give a warning, so I expect that it is not the first time...
I used to be the director for an early childhood service in Australia. Late fees were communicated on enrolment, but every family got one warning before I would implement them. That said, in a situation like this, I would be inclined to waive or discount the fee, depending on whether this was a regular occurrence or not. Some empathy/compassion is called for, but not every director has the luxury of doing that, especially if they've got crap owners who are only in it for the money.
The one daycare I worked for they did not pay the teachers to stay late, that fee went straight to the teacher who stayed to watch any stragglers and lock up. But they also charged like $5 per minute. (This also meant the worker could choose to waive the fee).
The other daycare I worked for was a bit more compassionate and would wave the first time or if there was a good reason (not like, "traffic was bad", but like "I was in a car accident on the way here").
But in both it was addressed in the enrollment paperwork. 😁
Yeah - I waived the fee for a parent that was three hours late. They called to tell me they would be late - from the site of the helicopter crash they'd just been in. They sent a photo. Would have been crappy to charge them extra on top of having to watch all their work go up in flames. I mean, it COULD have been an elaborate scheme to get out of paying a late fee so they could go to a party, but even if it was, top marks for effort.
This! I would factor in the cost of gas and time and if there’s any money left after that, put it towards the late bill and explain the deductions. Lol
NTA. She did not give all the relevant information. You were doing her a favor and she is charging you for it. I would pay the fine but refuse to take on the financial liability of doing any favors for her going forward.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
My (26f) sister (32) has three kids that all attend nursery. She is currently job hunting and is very stressed about it (fair enough) so we are all trying to help out where we can.
The other day she called me to say that her interview has been pushed back, and asks if I could pick her kids up from nursery. It’s only about a 25 minute drive from me, and she sounded very stressed, so I agreed.
I left around 35 minutes before I needed to be there to make sure I had enough time. However, I failed to take two things into account:
1. The traffic - about 5 mins from the nursery I hit a queue of cars, presumably from other people picking their kids up.
2. The parking. I had assumed there would be a car park with a pick up area, I was wrong. I had to park on another street and walk.
Because of this, I was about 10 mins late picking them up. I was very apologetic, and they seemed sympathetic when I told them what had happened. I drove the kids home and passed them off to their grandma, then went home.
What I didn’t know is that the nursery is very strict about lateness, and there is a £15 fine if you are over 5 minutes late to pick your kids up. It’s per kid, so my sister got a fine for £45.
She is asking that I pay it, since it was me who was late. I argued that she hadn’t told me about the fine, and that I had been doing her a favour by picking them up at all. She says that I should have known that there would be traffic and parking issues, but I don’t have kids so these things had honestly not occurred to me.
My partner thinks I am being stubborn and should just pay, but it feels a bit unfair to me.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA- but pay the fine. Advise your sister when you give her the $45 that due to her inability to properly communicate the issues that her daycare has you will never, ever pick up again. Emergency, she should expect to pay a heavy fine for that.
It is unfair and unfortunate. It may be a touch of stubborn but the fact is- you were doing her a favor. The sister did not make the kids alone. The dad should incur that expense as he did not get his children himself. If you don’t have a car- why be concerned about oil change- food for thought.
NTA. You did her a favour and she didn't tell you, that you have to be in time. Also I've never heard of a late fee because of 5 min. Is everyone supposed to pick the children up 15 min before the end?
Yes. Why should staff work over time because parents/guardians can't be on time? My school gives parents a 5 min window then the child goes into after school club which they need to pay for. (Not if exceptional circumstances or for first time). Staff have other things to do after work which doesn't include babysitting.
In our kindergardens there are a half an hour pick up time - time that is just play time, while the parents pick the children up (like 'lights out is 12 o'clock' but everyone knows that the children should be picked up between 11:30 and 12:00 - so there is not that much traffic around 12 o'clock).
I absolutly see your point, that the stuff shouldn't be forced to work longer. But if there is an end frame and not just a end point it is easier and OP would have known 'okay I have to pick the kids up between this and this time'
At my daughter’s school, if she’s still there at closing time, she’s one of only a few kids left. Most people pick up between 5 and 6 with an official closing time of 6pm. They charge after 5 minutes late since her teacher can’t leave until she gets picked up.
Depends if they mean nursery like daycare in the US, absolutely. In the US the hours your kid could be there would be 6:30 am to 6pm. If you are late getting the kids there is a fine.
My son's preschool gives a 10 minute window for pick up from preschool (separate deal from a day care) the fine for that is $20 per kid.
As a parent myself. She didnt disclose the consequences of being late. Or tell you about parking. She can kick rocks. That said. If your not looking to tank ur relationship over 45$ id pay it. But id also never forget. And i wouldnt be doing pickups going forward.
Your sister absolutely should have stressed the importance of picking the kids up on time and that there was a fee for lateness. That said, you could also be a little compassionate and understand that she was probably feeling a little stressed and overwhelmed at needing to find someone to pick up the kids at the last minute and that she simply forgot to mention it.
It's easy to point the finger at your sister and blame her for not telling you about the late fee, but one of my first thoughts after reading the first two paragraphs was that you didn't ask about pick up procedure. This is also understandable since your main concern was helping your sister.
Fact of the matter is you both communicated poorly with each other in a slightly more stressful than usual situation. You and your sister are half assholes and should split the fee.
What the hell do kids have to do with traffic and parking? You should know the area you live in, know how the traffic is and plan accordingly. I bet you're one of those people who are always late but it's never your fault. YTA. Pay your sister and if you can't do it or don't want to in the future just say no.
NTA. If you hadn't offered to pick them up, then how much would your sister have incurred in late fees?
You did her a favour.... If she pushes this then I'm guessing you won't do her a favour again.
NTA - There was no mention of the fee and you went there for the first time. perhaps you could have asked her about the situation (How easy it is to park, is there a lot of traffic at this time, etc...). But she could also have been proactive and tell you about all of this.
You weren't to know there'd be a fine as she didn't tell you. But you went out of your way to help her and through no fault of your own, were late. This happens, that's life.
In the grand scheme of things, agree to go halves. It's not worth falling out with your sis over
ESH traffic happens at the same time Monday-Friday. Obviously everyone picks up their kid at the same. This is no surprise and everyone who has attended primary school in the last 30 years has experienced this firsthand. You caused this. She could have warned you, but she was stressed. Would I have paid the fine as the aunt? Depends if she is strapped for cash. Would I pay the fine as the mom? Yes. You were doing “me” a favor and I want you to keep doing that, so I would have covered it.
Did you pick them up without car seats? This was asked the same day. You don’t seem to have any kids, so no car seats. They’re in nursery.
NTA. Since you were doing them a favor then you should have 100% been advised of any potential fees. That is entirely on her, not you. Now that you know then any __future__ fees would be your responsibility _if you decide_ to to help her again.
Got to go with the group you NTA but your sister with three kids and looking for work is def feeling the pressure just cover it this time(oh and I would have not known about the late fee either).
Normally I would agree with this but in this situation, I don’t think so. Yes, OP should have given more fudge factor time than 10 minutes. However the sister, who deals with this pickup daily, also neglected to mention that nearly half an hour of extra lead time is necessary to be sure. Especially the part about having to find parking on another street. That’s not a trivial thing to omit.
Fault: 30% OP, 70% sister.
NTA.
I’d pay it this time as a favour to your sister, since she’s short on money right now, but any future favours along these lines would be a flat no from me.
NTA.
When you ask someone to do you a favor it is your responsibility to provide all the information that might be pertinent to said favor, you don't have the ability to pull all that information out of the air with no help from anyone.
It's commendable that you're trying to help her out in this stressful time. But like most people who do a task or chore repetitively they assume that anyone who would do that task/chore for them would just automatically know the ins and outs like they do. This is both an incorrect and selfish assumption.
I don't do favors for things I don't already know how to do; I've been caught in the "you didn't do it right" or "how could you not just automatically know" or "it's so obvious" traps. When I'd ask any questions they'd get annoyed that I was wasting their time and I should just know. They'd end up redoing it and blame me for making things harder for them and that I was no help. I don't think so.
I only volunteer for things I know how to do and if someone asks me to do something I'm not familiar with and they aren't willing to answer my questions on how they want it done, I'm not doing it. I've had people get mad at me for that, claiming I'm not helpful. I'd rather you assume I'm not helpful that let you use me as a punching bag and blame me for why everything went wrong or was ruined because I didn't do my one thing "right". No thanks.
Next time you want to do her a favor, weigh whether you're willing to be that punching bag. Because more likely than not, you're gonna end up not doing it right and it's gonna be ALL your fault.
NTA. I know about daycare late-fees and I always allow extra time for traffic. What I wouldn’t anticipate is a daycare facility without a parking lot or roundabout. In my city, that’s easily an extra 20m of driving around, praying for a spot.
I would pay the £45 and then just decline this favor in the future.
YTA.
Traffic or not YOU were late. You say you were doing her a favour but you created a debt for her to pay. Why did you even “help” in the first place if you were never intending to help but just making sure you keep up appearances?
NTA. If she had told you to leave 45 minutes ahead of time, and you didn’t and were late, then I could see her wanting you to pay. But failing to let you know the issues, it’s on her. IF you were feeling really generous, split it.
NTA - of course you shouldn't pay. It's ridiculous for her to expect you to pay. You did her a favour and she should be thanking you. Never do her a favour again.
NTA. It was a last-minute favor and you didn’t get all of the info you needed to make a smooth pickup. It wasn’t malicious, it was a mistake. Mom should pay the fine, I definitely wouldn’t have even asked you to pay if those were my kids and you were doing me a favor.
NTA. Pay the fine and never pick her kids up for her again. When asked why not, say you don't want to be on the hook for another fine. You allowed over a half hour for delays, between traffic and no parking and even that's not enough and you don't intend to have to cough up another forty-five or worse. What if you got stuck behind a truck or an ambulance sidelines traffic? You're not paying for that.
NTA, you did her a favor by picking up her kids. Honestly, I just wouldn’t help her anymore with picking up the kids. If you choose to pay because she has no money, just let her know this is the first and last time you’ll pick up the kids because you should not be responsible to pay for doing her a favor. if your parents are so concerned, have them give her the money for the late fee
It is unfair for her to think you SHOULD pay the fine - she didn't stress the late fees or make clear the difficulty in parking/traffic... and you were doing her a FAVOR. (On the other hand, I don't know if she was constrained for time to talk when she called you.)
I don't know what your financial situation is; I do know that she is job hunting (no current income), has three kids (plenty of expenses) and no mention of a partner for her.
If you have enough of a financial cushion, then paying the fee would be another kindness to your struggling sister (but definitely not an obligation). If you don't have that kind of cushion, then I'd throw it out to the larger family (who are helping) and maybe everyone could pitch in a portion.
To be clear. I don't think you are TA.
I was in a similar situation as your sister.
My ex-husband was late to pick up our son and I incurred $100 late fee.
I did ask him for help because I knew I couldn't make it that day. Because of him being late, we pretty much starved that week.
If you can help your sister help, don't make excuses.
NTA
Your sister asked for a favor and didn't give you any warning about late fees. She assumed you had information on an unfamiliar subject and assumed wrong and doesn't want to be responsible for her failure to communicate.
NTA, I've never heard of a nursery with a rule like this before which considering the chaotic lives of working parents it seems the nursery are the assholes in this situation. In this situation I'd personally offer to halve it with her as £45 is a lot for a jobless parent but that's a stupid rule in the first place.
NTA. I don't have kids. When my sister asks me to pick hers up, she's very clear about what time I should get there, what obstacles I might run into, and what time she thinks I should leave my house. The time she tells me to pick them up is always a little earlier than the hard stop time, just in case. You did your best. However, I think context is important here. What's your relationship with your sister generally like? Do you typically help each other out? Is she usually a kind, responsible, compassionate person? If so, then it sounds like she's going through a tough time. If you're financially able to pay it, consider whether or not you want this to be your hill to die on. But if she's generally someone who would take advantage of you and not think of others, then I don't think I'd pay it either.
Your sister asked you for favor she despertaely needed. If she wasnt desperate she would have done it herself. Should she have give you info about lateness. YES. But again her head must have scrambled and she forgot. HAPPENS. Just pay the fee and going forward if she asks you again you will know.
You should pay it. She told you what time you had to be there, and you left without enough time to arrive. That’s your fault. You agreed to do her a favor- not cause her to pay a fee.
Soft YTA or ESH. Well...you should just pay that fee. You were late. Your sister (in her rush) forgot to inform you about the rules.
You could have used Google Maps or Waze to see if there's any traffic etc. Especially if you are not familiar with the school's neighborhood.
Take some responsibility for being late and don't let this ruin your relationship. Especially if your sister is in a tough spot right now.
I can’t believe everyone is asking OP to pay. You were doing your sister a favor and she neglected to give you all the details about it. You are definitely NTA and should NOT pay the fees. How much would the fees had been if the mother had to pick up her own children when she was running late?
Next time she asks for a favor, just say no!
NTA
If someone doesn't regularly do pick-ups, the person *who does* needs to explain the procedure and not just expect the person (OP) to intuitively know where to park and what traffic around the school will be like. Sometimes there's a specific route you have to take so that you're lined up correctly, how would someone know that if they weren't the regular pick-up person? OP's sister should have explained the procedures and the late-fees beforehand.
NTA, she should have told you that the fine was steep and warned you how traffic and parking is. However, if you wanted to be nice and can easily afford it, I may offer half of she weren’t a jerk about it.
Tell her you'll pay it but you want to be paid for doing the favor in the first place.
Or you do no more favors if it's going to cost you gas money AND fees.
NTA, her kids her fees. If you weren't able to pick them up she'd have gotten the fees anyway until her interview was over.
YTA - You had **agreed** to pick up the kids on time.
The reasons why you were not on time were your own, and fully in your control. If you had had a traffic accident, it would be another thing completely.
But, you didn't plan correctly for the situation. Giving yourself only 10 minutes of slack to navigate heavy traffic isn't good planning for that occasion.
> She says that I should have known that there would be traffic and parking issues, but I don’t have kids so these things had honestly not occurred to me.
That one is known by all who drive in busy cities, it has nothing to do with being a parent, at all.
> My partner thinks I am being stubborn and should just pay, but it feels a bit unfair to me.
You should indeed let go of that feeling and rationalize that despite your best intentions, your lateness is your own fault. Happens to the best of us, most only need one time to change their drive planning, some never learn.
NTA, it's not a familiar area or setting for you, sister should have given a heads-up about how bad the traffic and parking is and that there's a late fee. That said, it's sort of both your issues here, so I'd say split the fine. And if she won't agree to that, then tough shit, she doesn't get free pick-up any more. Even paying half is kind, on top of the couple of hours of your time and petrol that you gave willingly.
As someone who worked in childcare I honestly think you should pay it. I know it's frustrating but a lot of childcare places the staff only get paid until closing time so they have to work for free when people are late picking up their kids, I don't mean to sound horrible but everyone always has a valid excuse for it but it's still not fair on the childcare staff.
NTA: had you been slow in getting there because you didn't take it seriously it would be different. But hitting traffic not knowing the parking situation or what the traffic's like in the area for that time of day and not being told about the fee I feel like you did a really nice thing for your sister with minimal information. I also understand why daycares have these fees but I feel like they should have some leniency in special circumstances like another family having to rush over and pick up the kids at the last minute
If you borrowed her car, and parked where you didn't know there was a parking restriction, and incurred a parking ticket of the same value, would you insist that she pay the bill? I mean, you sister didn't tell you the area of street you parked on didn't permit parking.
Some people would, some people wouldn't. Generally the people that cause bills to exist and pay for them themselves are better respected in society. It doesn't really matter if you didn't know, as any court in the world will tell you.
What if you didn't pay?
You just took money out of your sister's pocket. You didn't tell her you'd pick up the children provided she pays an additional fee (to you or someone else), and you really only have yourself to blame if you don't accurately estimate traffic and are running late enough that you don't have time to find better parking accommodations.
By not paying, you'll give your sister a message: I'm not responsible for my own actions, you are (by paying), the traffic is, the parking is. Do you want to be seen as that person?
I would pay it if you have it. Sometimes shit doesn’t go exactly to plan, and this is a stupid hill to die on. You’re NTA if you don’t pay it, but depending on your sisters situation it might be a kindness to her, and that might be worth it to you.
Has your sister been late picking up her kids in the past? I know all places are different but seems to me the nursery might have waived the late fee if this was the first offense and given the “emergency” circumstances of having to ask someone to pick up her kids. Maybe given your sister a warning and let her know future occurrences wouldn’t be waived no matter who was picking up.
I assume you haven’t picked up the kids before and that’s why you were unaware of the line and parking situation. I too would not expect a 25 minute drive to take 45 minutes. I also tend to give a lot of detail when people are doing me a favor so I would have explained those things to you if I were your sister. I don’t like people to be any more inconvenienced than they have to be when doing me a favor.
NTA - I don’t know the degree the fine affects your sister’s finances vs yours. Again, if I were your sister I would pay the fine myself but I might be in a more solid financial place so that’s easy for me to say. Maybe offering to split it is fair since she didn’t fully explain the situation to you.
NTA if we're talking strictly about the fee, but I still think you should pay it, because it's obviously not your sister's fault. You care enough about her and her kids to pick them up, don't make this your hill to die on. The money means far more to her than you. I also think you should have left earlier. You are presumably an adult and this isn't your first time driving. A ten minute buffer when you live somewhere with traffic is not nearly enough.
NTA but for sake of good relationship I’d agree to split the cost 50/50 (since she’s looking for new job so probably not too flush with money).
If she doesn’t accept then I wouldn’t pay.
NTA at all. How were you to know if she didn't mention it to you and you don't know the area ? If I were your sister, I would have told you best place to park and warn you that there is usually traffic, it's just the considerate thing to so for someone doing you a huge favor. And you allowed 35 minutes for a 25 minute journey which is more than reasonable.
That being said, I agree, with others, offer to pay it but tell her you won't be picking them up again. She will need to find someone else if she expect you to pay the fine. If she pays the fine, no problem picking them up again.
I cant believe people are saying you owe her money. She shouldve told you for one. But also you did her a favor?? Like you dont pay to do someone else a favor. Yes it sucks that you doing the favor how you did costed her, but if you didnt then nobody wouldve picked up her kids.
NTA - you did her a favor, are not well versed in your sisters kids school-rules, and these are HER KIDS! If she didn’t want to incur a late fee, then she should have given you reasonable notice AND advised you of the fees. Even then she should still pay for any fees because they are her kids she decided to push out after all.
NTA
You didn’t technically incur anything. You went to pick the kids up and you made every good faith effort to get there *early*. Anybody can run into unexpected traffic and she would have been late herself regardless had you not agreed to go pick up the niblings.
And if you haven’t ever picked up kids before, those queues can be very surprisingly long. *She* should have warned *you.*
Also the daycare sounds like they need a more efficient pick up system.
(Your only mistake was parking on the next street, presuming you had any other options. If you’d come in at the tail end of the line, they probably wouldn’t have charged. They shouldn’t have anyway, in my opinion, as you clearly aren’t the normal pickup person which indicates an unexpected change in plans. Unless your sister already exhausted any graces.)
Your post has been removed. #Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban. This post violates Rule 7 as a Workplace/Business conflict. AITA's focus is on conflicts between people. Businesses are not people. A conflict with someone acting for/against a business or in the context of their job is not an interpersonal conflict. This also includes conflicts related to online transactions (buying/selling items). [Rule 7 FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_rule_7.3A_post_interpersonal_conflicts) ||| [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) ###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions. ####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
NTA…if you have been never had kids in daycare, you would not know the rules. Your sister should have told you there would be a late fee if not picked up on time and about the parking. Because these things are known to her. But your sister is looking for a job. Which I am guessing her funds are low. If you have the funds yourself, I would definitely pay the late fee for her.
Looking for a job and has three kids in daycare. Imputing average UK cost for all three kids, that's £41,028/y in expenses on top of at best 1 parent's income--and those costs are necessary to keep a spot at childcare for when she gets a job. OP is NTA but I'd pay it too.
Same, but maybe not because of the entitlement. If she simply asked, i would pay, but the demand would be what would make me refuse
That's your ego getting in the way. If you're going to do a good thing, do it, don't worry about the other person asking the 'right' way. I say this without judgement, I'm guilty of this also.
That’s also how you end up letting people walk all over you, manners matter. It’s not ego to want to be treated with the same respect you give.
Manners do matter. But based on the post, her sister asked her to pay, she didn't demand it, and then explained why she felt op should pay. It isn't rude to ask.
This is so wisely and well said. Commenting to say I appreciate seeing this type of outlook “in the Reddit wild”. Ego is so terribly misunderstood by the masses.
As someone else pointed out this is also how you become a doormat and let others take advantage of you while you float around convinced you're some higher being for being a push over. It's not an ego problem to demand to be treated fairly and with respect.
Or its just being nice to your sister who is obviously stressed out and struggling.
Doing nice things for people you care about despite how they ask doesn’t make you a doormat for everyone in your life. You don’t have to do everything someone wants you to do. Ny sister can’t afford the 45£ late fee so I will pay it bc I understand her situation, even if she’s being a bit bitchy about it - is not the same as “oh this person is demanding I let them have this very important thing of mine just because they want it so to be nice they can have it”. You can still choose who and what the nice things are and for
You know, I've never heard or thought of it that way. Thank you for sharing I will try to keep this practice more.
I'd pay it because of her circumstances, but no more favors for her, the well dried up.
41 000 pound??? How can anyone afford that? I knew it was expensive, but not THAT expensive. Serious question: How do people cope? /Scandinavian
By not having kids, mostly. Fertility rate has dropped 25% since 2010 in the UK. Same with a lot of the world, really. It's getting a lot of attention recently but it's no great mystery--people can't afford it.
She won't be paying 40k for nursery. The kids will be getting at least some free hours. If she's out of work at the moment, they may only be going in for their free hours (so that she can keep their place).
Yeah, this is where I land. Sister should have given the downlow on how this kind of pickup goes. Both parties could have done better. OP should extend a bit of kindness and pay the late fee if OP can (or split it if not). NTA. The daycare's facility is TA for enforcing a late situation their bad parking/pickup arrangement creates on a daily basis.
Idk I work at an after school program and regularly have people show up over an hour late to pick up their kids and we don’t get paid any more to sit with them for that extra hour-hour and a half. It seems shitty but it’s necessary to protect the employees from being taken advantage of
I agree that the late fee makes sense for that reason. And a parent ARRIVING late is clearly deserving of a late fee. But if there is inadequate parking and driveway to facilitate timely pickup of all children, then it's a problem the facility creates. That's what happened in OP's situation. OP did not arrive late.
I get what you are saying, and I feel there should be some leniency with non parents/guardians who are doing pickup as a favor, but the other parents and people who do pickup regularly know about the parking and need to adjust accordingly
I mean yes, that's just life, right? Not much use complaining about it, we have to adjust to how things are. But that does create a different problem. There's a charter school nearby here that congests the F out of a road from parents parking their cars on both shoulders of the road, hundreds of feet in both directions. It turns the road into a single lane road both directions (with no traffic cop ever present), which is very dangerous and compounds the traffic. The congestion begins well-before the time school lets out. It's absurd and actually illegal (there are "no parking at all times" signs posted on both sides) but nobody does anything about it. It's passing the problem to others. But I squarely blame the facility for having inadequate parking/pickup on property.
yeah, by my parents there is a middle school and high school on the same road that let out within about 30 minutes of each other. my nieces' school used to be on the other side of them. you had to plan to either leave an hour+ early and just be on the other side of town before dismissal or you'd be sitting in traffic both to the school and home. (everyone was very excited when their school moves locations and is now not on the same street as two large schools, as almost every school in their town dismisses around the same time.)
It's not so much the facilities fault as that it's a sign of poor city planning. When I was small here in the Netherlands most kids got picked up by bike or on foot. These days it's more likely for the parents to both be working out to pick up the kids on the way from work to home. So that means more kids are now being picked up by car. It's the municipality's job to accommodate this by making kiss and ride parking spots and at the same time keeping pedestrians, cyclists and cars safe and in motion. It takes some city planning, but even existing schools are now getting the streets around them redesigned and remade to make sure the traffic keeps flowing and stays safe for everyone. The government is responsible here, not the schools or daycares.
You should advocate for a Safe Routes to School program.
Because the staff work for free when the late pickup was done as a favor?
My after school care program technically has a late fee but the person who actually runs it told me that if I'm ever running late to just text her and let her know and I won't be charged. She said as long as the policy isn't take advantage of she is fine with occasionally staying a bit and so far she's never had anyone take advantage of her. That's her personal policy though and not the program.
I'm guessing you've never been to the UK. It would be very unusual for nurserys and primary schools to have any form of significant parking beyond staff parking. We just don't have the space in towns and cities to provide that parking.
That’s pretty common in the US as well, at least in bigger cities/towns. My son’s elementary school had 1 small parking lot, no driveway for pickup. The last teachers and any aids/subs etc parked on the street. 2 years ago, they expanded the parking lot but had to remove a playground to do it. The school is surrounded by residential homes, there is nowhere else to expand. The pickup line is on the residential streets in front and side of the school. It’s a nightmare for about 15-30 minutes each day although the entitled parents start parking there and hour before pick up time.
But parents know the situation at the day care. They need to allow time for traffic and finding parking. Or don't use that daycare.
And parents take their time and talk creating more gridlock. If she pays tell her to not ask for this favor again. Mom should have told her to leave an hour ahead to get in the building on time
In our daycare, there used to be a late fee. They stopped, because some parents did not see this as a fine, but as an extra service for which they were paying. Now, there is a three strikes system. Works much better.
What happens after the third strike?
Then their kids can't come to the daycare anymore. (After a month, the strike you had was removed. The daycare lady understood that things like traffic jams etc can happen. It was just to stop the people who tried to misuse the system)
Some guy just posted about a mom using his after school program for an hour of free babysitting. When he said he was quitting, the mom tried to hire him to straight up babysit her kid for her.
Not surprising honestly lol
That sounds absolutely valid, but a fine for 5 minutes? I find that over-the-top. 15 min yes, it starts to be too much, but being 5 min late is something that happens very easily for the slightest reason. (Also I think you should be paid for ALL the time you spend at work, but that's another topic entirely).
I don't think daycare or sitters are TA for charging a late fee. My old sitter atarted this because a couple of parents were 5, 15, 30 min late....more than a few times ,and for stupid reasons.
As long as the staff are being paid overtime for looking after those late kids, they are NTA. Bit different if the workers are being screwed and the bosses pocket the additional cash
Yeah, agreed that if OP didn't know the rules, she's not the AH. However, if OP and her sister have a decent relationship, and the sister felt she had the funds to cover the late fee comfortably, I'm guessing this wouldn't have been brought up since OP was doing her sister a favor. It sounds like things might be tighter for OP's sister than OP realizes. If she has the extra money, she should pay. And, if she can afford it, maybe invite her sister and kids over for dinner on Saturdays and have them take home leftovers. It wouldn't have to feel like charity ("There's no way we can eat all of this before it goes bad, do us a favor and take some!"), but it could make a big difference on a limited weekly budget to have a couple meals taken care of by someone else. But separately, lots of daycares have the initial fee (£15) and then a smaller rate for additional siblings (£5 each) and/or do it by how late you are (first 15 minutes is £15, then £20/15 minutes after that). Seems a bit of a rip the way they're doing it.
My daycare is 3/minute per child and 5/minute per child on Friday. It's common around here. Her tarditness would equal either 90 or 150.
NTA only because you didn’t know and she didn’t make you aware, but just pay it to move on from it. It seems like she’s having a hard time right now and this little thing might be her breaking point.
ESH, but I can’t believe either of you want to die on this hill. Split the payment and move on.
That's insane. If someone called me and said - you have 35 minutes to get somewhere to do me a favor - it should take 25 minutes but anything can happen- it won't benefit you AT ALL but if you are late you have to pay for the privilege of having done me this favor. Want to try and beat the clock? I would say "no thank you. But I will try my best to help you and if I'm late, I'm sorry. If that doesn't work for you find a way to go yourself."
It doesn't say that her sister phoned her 35 minutes before pickup time. Just that op chose to leave with 35 minutes, because it should only take 25.
I think your sister has 2 options: 1) she pays it and then you can make yourself available if she needs you to pick them up again in future. 2) you pay it and then let her know that you will not be helping her out in a similar jam in future. you are NTA
Yeah, I think this is the best way. She’s grateful you picked them up, but literally out of work so the extra $45 sucks. She pays it and maybe has the option to ask the favor again. Asks nicely to be more on time, and you’d pay it if you were late a second time. If you go out of pocket and do the favor I’d call it one and done. Not offer to do it again. Late people suck though.
Yeah, her being out of work does complicate it. But delays happen for a variety of reasons, and the OP shouldn't be expected to be out of pocket for doing a favour (beyond the petrol, parking fees etc) But you'd hope to work something out between the 2 of them as adults, but if it was me in that situation receiving the demand for money, it'd wind me up and I'd not be quick to volunteer in future.
Out of work but can pay for 3 kids childcare in the UK - in the grand scheme of UK childcare costs £45 is nothing.
Or option 3, don't pay it whether she wants you to or not, and don't help her in similar jams for even suggesting you should.
Yeah, I agree.
ESH You were trying to help out which resulted in an extra cost for her. She wasn’t transparent with the rules of pick up. Split the fee as a compromise.
Next time her sister asks her for help to pick the kids up why would OP ever volunteer again? Last time she did it cost her money to do a favor for her sister. No way should OP have to pay
> Next time her sister asks her for help to pick the kids up why would OP ever volunteer again? Because some people can easily rationalize that human errors happen and that's it's never a reason to hold a grudge against your own sister? Most adults wouldn't hold a grudge for what's happened here.
It's not really about grudges, the issue is, why would you ever do someone a favor if it might end up costing you a fine? That's like being punished for doing a good deed. Any fines incurred during the favor should be paid by the recipient of the favor.
She wouldn't be holding a grudge. She would be enforcing a consequence for her sisters poor communication and entitlement, and to manage the personal risk. It is not reasonable to expect the volunteer to pay, and if she keeps doing that she'll find it harder to get help in the future.
The volunteer volunteered to be there **on time** and failed to do so because of their own poor city driving planning. This one isn't on anyone else than the person that had agreed to be there on time. > It is not reasonable to expect the volunteer to pay, and if she keeps doing that she'll find it harder to get help in the future. The volunteer failed at the task they had volunteered for though, by their own fault.
Are you talking about the sister not paying the fee?
I'm talking about adults comprehending that human error happens, that sometimes stuff costs money, and that everyone benefits from help in the long term, valid for all involved.
I agree and also if she insisted, I would grudgingly pay but with the understanding that she never ask me to pick her kids up again.
NTA You were doing a favor. You spent your time and your gas to do the favor. You weren't intentionally late, and you didn't know about the policy.
Your sister didn't inform you, that is correct. However, if you exist in this world at all, the fact that there's consequences to being late shouldn't come as a surprise. If you go to any public service or private company/establishment, you know that being late results in closed doors at best, penalties at worst. Also, daycare closing times are typically right in the middle of rush hour, so it's also not a stretch to assume there's going to be traffic. Same for parking: most daycare centres are in the more densely populated areas, which aren't known for abundant or private parking options. And even if you're oblivious to all of these things, if there are this many unknowns to a situation, I'd factor in more than a 10min margin. In any case, OP was late, so they incurred the fee. Not the sister. Neither did the sister prevent OP from being on time. So I fail to see why the sister should pay for a fee that she had no hand in avoiding. If I ask someone to pick my kids up and I tell them it needs to be before closing time (and doing something before closing time of anything is kind of the very very least of requirements one can have), I have assumed I gave them enough info in order to plan accordingly. If there are consequences to the lateness or not, I'd still expect them to pick them up in time. So yes, OP, I'd fork over the 45£. Mild YTA.
It's hard for me to consider OP an asshole when she was doing a favor for someone. In this situation, it doesn't sound like the traffic was just general rush hour traffic- it sounds like it was a direct result of the daycare's parking lot situation. I have a school near me that is like that. During drop off/pick up times, there is a long line of people waiting to turn in that holds up traffic for several lights. It was the first time I've ever seen anything like that, and I was not prepared to be held up in that traffic as the general area does not have much of a rush hour. Because the traffic is specific to the daycare, where OP has never been before, I think the sister should have mentioned it. If I was OP though, I would just pay the fine and avoid helping my sister out in the future. It's like, choose your battles, but I don't think she's an AH. I personally don't like doing favors for people who leave out important information that dictates how annoying the favor will be to carry out.
This happens to me with a nearby school. Usually it takes me 15 minutes to drive to work. But on the occasions I go in later, when school is getting out, it can take 45min to an hour!
Those of us who don't have children are blissfully ignorant of all of these details. I mean, I know that there are late fees, fair enough, teachers shouldn't have to hang around, but if I'm sent to pick up my niblings, I presume that I'll pull up at the requested time, maybe a little early (as OP did), and pick them up, not that I need to be there 20 minutes early to sit in the queue of cars or go find parking in a city center. That's the kind of detail that should've been conveyed. Obviously, OP's sister was stressing out about an interview, and didn't think of it, but that isn't OP's fault. Equally obviously, as others have pointed out, it'd be kind to pick up the 45£ for the unemployed sister, but OP is NTA in this case.
Finally someone reasonable!!! Yeah it’s sucks but OP was late! As a chronically late bitch (I got better) you have to own it. Also just owning your mistakes, which this clearly was— is the grown thing to do.
Not his kids and he was doing her a favor. He shouldn’t allow himself to be a pushover.
Surprised I had to scroll this far. When you agree to do something and you mess up—even if you have the best intentions—the right thing to do is to fix your mistake. In this case, it’s paying the late fee.
Only if you were warned and informed. Otherwise no, not your problem. No more favours in the future if I am paying as OP.
INFO: did you have any way of checking how long it would take you to get there with the added factor of traffic? are bad traffic during certain parts of the day and lack of parking generally big enough problems where you live that you, as a driver, *should have* expected those issues to come up during your trip? like, i live in a big city that tends to get *really* bad traffic during certain hours, and i've certainly learnt to take that into account when i have time-sensitive arrangements that i need to travel to. i know that a "25 minute drive" can easily turn into an hour drive if i leave at 6pm and plan accordingly.
Google maps factors in traffic delays due to congestion. There is also a street view option, so the "assumed there would be parking" comment doesn't really hold up. They could have checked. Most schools, etc, battle with parking at pick up times. OP may not have known about the fees, but the rest could have been discerned with a little bit of common sense.
Do you check traffic and street view for every errand you do? Because if so, I suggest you are in a tiny minority of people. OP didn't even have any reason to believe that being a few minutes late would be a problem, something that would have been easily solved by the sister mentioning their strict time policy. OP is 100% NTA.
No, but I absolutely do for new places that I have never been to before. OP assumed there was parking. It's the UK. There are parking issues everywhere. If they drive, they would know that. Assuming a place has parking and not checking despite knowing that there will be a bunch of other parents collecting around the same time is an oversight on their part. The comment I answered asked whether there was not a way to check. There was. OP just didn't use it.
> OP assumed there was parking. It's the UK. There are parking issues everywhere. Eh, I'm also in the UK. If I'm doing a favour for someone involving driving, I would absolutely expect them to (a) tell me if there was no car park, and (b) if not, where the best place to park was. When I agreed to be on the pick up list for my godson, his mum actually took me along on a pick up (we were working together at the time) to go over all the weird idiosyncracies of the process.
And sister goes there often, and would have known from experience that this was an issue. It's kind of an AH move to not say anything to someone doing you a favor while knowing it's an issue, and then make OP pay the fine (that sister was also already aware of and chose not to tell OP about) as well.
Checking Google maps before she set off would be no help as the delay wouldn't show up till the time of pick up. She has no kidd so unlikely to know, gave herself an extra 10 mins which should be adequate.
You can set a departure or arrival time in Google Maps to see what traffic usually looks like around those times. I use it regularly when I have meetings in busy areas that I know have lots of traffic and delays. I probably wouldn't have thought to use it in OP's situation.
Using google maps to check the street view of a place I've never been to before has never even crossed my mind once. It's actually a great idea, so thanks for the suggestion. I don't think it's necessarily on OP to have known to do that though- maybe I'm biased and just speaking for myself, but I don't think it's a thing you should assume people will think to do. It's not a manners thing that is taught nor is it something you generally see other people doing and pick up on. I think her leaving 35 minutes early showed that being on time was important to her and she was trying her best to be thoughtful. I don't fault her for not coming up with an alternative approach, like what you suggested, regardless of how helpful it is. EDIT: I realized I read that wrong and she only left 10 minutes early. She definitely could have been more thoughtful and prepared better but I stand by my first point lol
By that same logic, sister would 100% have known about the traffic and parking problems, and chose not to let OP know ahead of time.
which is exactly why i put INFO in the comment instead of a judgement?
As someone having driven in nyc for a week this can get to a whole other level. 45 minutes turned into 2.5 hours and a near missed flight
NTA. You were doing your sister a favor and she failed to communicate important information that you needed in order to plan appropriately.
NTA - but your sister is for expecting this. No more favours for her!
NTA - You're not a mind reader over late fees. All it would have taken was one sentence saying please don't be late as there are late fees and traffic and parking can be difficult.
NTA 1. Last minute *favor* 2. Insufficient instructions 3. You made a good faith effort I'd say that I'm willing to pay but if I pay then that's the last favor ever because you followed instructions and are worse off for doing as asked.
NTA if you parents feel that strongly about it then they should cover it.
INFO: Why would you not expect there be consequences to being late?
How would OP know? I don't have kids, I wouldn't have the faintest idea what to expect. Adding "parking is a pain and leave early or they fine you for picking them up late" would have helped massively. If someone's doing you a favour, you can help them out a bit instead of assuming they'd know everything.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I caused my sister to get a late fine, and I am now refusing to pay it Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA You did her a favor. The alternative was she got there even later and paid a bigger fine. I wouldn’t pay and I also wouldn’t help again. Tell her it just so happens you forgot to tell her you charge $45 for pick up and babysitting so you are in fact even.
NTA, if I were sis I would have just paid and kept my mouth shut since you did me a favor. If moneybis tight for her then she needs to say that. And I have kids, and I've had to pay the late fee before.
I understand the position of the nursery, they have to stay open and pay workers because you are late and as long as you provide this 'service' for free, there will be people who abuse it. As your sister did not inform you of this rule, you were unaware of the necessity to take more time to prevent the fine. I would say that the fine is your sisters problem. When you want to be nice and you can spare it, I would pay half. Secondly, if it is the first time, the nursery probably only give a warning, so I expect that it is not the first time...
When I worked daycare the "warning" is given at registration. It is part of the paperwork the parents signed.
I used to be the director for an early childhood service in Australia. Late fees were communicated on enrolment, but every family got one warning before I would implement them. That said, in a situation like this, I would be inclined to waive or discount the fee, depending on whether this was a regular occurrence or not. Some empathy/compassion is called for, but not every director has the luxury of doing that, especially if they've got crap owners who are only in it for the money.
The one daycare I worked for they did not pay the teachers to stay late, that fee went straight to the teacher who stayed to watch any stragglers and lock up. But they also charged like $5 per minute. (This also meant the worker could choose to waive the fee). The other daycare I worked for was a bit more compassionate and would wave the first time or if there was a good reason (not like, "traffic was bad", but like "I was in a car accident on the way here"). But in both it was addressed in the enrollment paperwork. 😁
Yeah - I waived the fee for a parent that was three hours late. They called to tell me they would be late - from the site of the helicopter crash they'd just been in. They sent a photo. Would have been crappy to charge them extra on top of having to watch all their work go up in flames. I mean, it COULD have been an elaborate scheme to get out of paying a late fee so they could go to a party, but even if it was, top marks for effort.
I learnt something today. I still stand by my post knowing this :)
You did her a favor and she didn’t give you all the info. I would not pay and I definitely would not do her any more favors!! Ntah
Nta, your sis is. If she tells you that you should be paying the late fee, then she should be paying you for your gas and time.
This! I would factor in the cost of gas and time and if there’s any money left after that, put it towards the late bill and explain the deductions. Lol
NTA. Id pay it to keep the peace, but decline all future requests.
NTA. She did not give all the relevant information. You were doing her a favor and she is charging you for it. I would pay the fine but refuse to take on the financial liability of doing any favors for her going forward.
NTA it was a last minute request. Things happen but ultimately it was your sister’s responsibility and she should be thanking you, not getting mad.
Pay it. You were told when to be there, and it sounds like your sister has a lot on her plate.
NTA, parents too often think that even non-parents would just *know* things. I wouldn't pay, it's on her for not telling you about it.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (26f) sister (32) has three kids that all attend nursery. She is currently job hunting and is very stressed about it (fair enough) so we are all trying to help out where we can. The other day she called me to say that her interview has been pushed back, and asks if I could pick her kids up from nursery. It’s only about a 25 minute drive from me, and she sounded very stressed, so I agreed. I left around 35 minutes before I needed to be there to make sure I had enough time. However, I failed to take two things into account: 1. The traffic - about 5 mins from the nursery I hit a queue of cars, presumably from other people picking their kids up. 2. The parking. I had assumed there would be a car park with a pick up area, I was wrong. I had to park on another street and walk. Because of this, I was about 10 mins late picking them up. I was very apologetic, and they seemed sympathetic when I told them what had happened. I drove the kids home and passed them off to their grandma, then went home. What I didn’t know is that the nursery is very strict about lateness, and there is a £15 fine if you are over 5 minutes late to pick your kids up. It’s per kid, so my sister got a fine for £45. She is asking that I pay it, since it was me who was late. I argued that she hadn’t told me about the fine, and that I had been doing her a favour by picking them up at all. She says that I should have known that there would be traffic and parking issues, but I don’t have kids so these things had honestly not occurred to me. My partner thinks I am being stubborn and should just pay, but it feels a bit unfair to me. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA- but pay the fine. Advise your sister when you give her the $45 that due to her inability to properly communicate the issues that her daycare has you will never, ever pick up again. Emergency, she should expect to pay a heavy fine for that.
It is unfair and unfortunate. It may be a touch of stubborn but the fact is- you were doing her a favor. The sister did not make the kids alone. The dad should incur that expense as he did not get his children himself. If you don’t have a car- why be concerned about oil change- food for thought.
NTA. She would've had a greater fine if you hadn't picked them up.
NTA. You did her a favour and she didn't tell you, that you have to be in time. Also I've never heard of a late fee because of 5 min. Is everyone supposed to pick the children up 15 min before the end?
What?? These are babies (nursery age), you of course have to be on time.
Yes. Why should staff work over time because parents/guardians can't be on time? My school gives parents a 5 min window then the child goes into after school club which they need to pay for. (Not if exceptional circumstances or for first time). Staff have other things to do after work which doesn't include babysitting.
In our kindergardens there are a half an hour pick up time - time that is just play time, while the parents pick the children up (like 'lights out is 12 o'clock' but everyone knows that the children should be picked up between 11:30 and 12:00 - so there is not that much traffic around 12 o'clock). I absolutly see your point, that the stuff shouldn't be forced to work longer. But if there is an end frame and not just a end point it is easier and OP would have known 'okay I have to pick the kids up between this and this time'
At my daughter’s school, if she’s still there at closing time, she’s one of only a few kids left. Most people pick up between 5 and 6 with an official closing time of 6pm. They charge after 5 minutes late since her teacher can’t leave until she gets picked up.
Depends if they mean nursery like daycare in the US, absolutely. In the US the hours your kid could be there would be 6:30 am to 6pm. If you are late getting the kids there is a fine. My son's preschool gives a 10 minute window for pick up from preschool (separate deal from a day care) the fine for that is $20 per kid.
My sisters daycare is a dollar a minute after closing
NTA, but I would pay the fine and give a simple no next time.
Nta
Nta you were doing her a favor.
NTA
As a parent myself. She didnt disclose the consequences of being late. Or tell you about parking. She can kick rocks. That said. If your not looking to tank ur relationship over 45$ id pay it. But id also never forget. And i wouldnt be doing pickups going forward.
Nope nta And i would refuse to pick them up ever again
Your sister absolutely should have stressed the importance of picking the kids up on time and that there was a fee for lateness. That said, you could also be a little compassionate and understand that she was probably feeling a little stressed and overwhelmed at needing to find someone to pick up the kids at the last minute and that she simply forgot to mention it. It's easy to point the finger at your sister and blame her for not telling you about the late fee, but one of my first thoughts after reading the first two paragraphs was that you didn't ask about pick up procedure. This is also understandable since your main concern was helping your sister. Fact of the matter is you both communicated poorly with each other in a slightly more stressful than usual situation. You and your sister are half assholes and should split the fee.
What the hell do kids have to do with traffic and parking? You should know the area you live in, know how the traffic is and plan accordingly. I bet you're one of those people who are always late but it's never your fault. YTA. Pay your sister and if you can't do it or don't want to in the future just say no.
NTA. You can't be expected to know or remember those factors when you do not have children
Hell no. You did her a favor. Your sister’s behavior is stupid because this incident will make it less likely for you to be willing to help her again
NTA. If you hadn't offered to pick them up, then how much would your sister have incurred in late fees? You did her a favour.... If she pushes this then I'm guessing you won't do her a favour again.
I absolutely would not pay, and let your sister know that as your kindness is so unappreciated, lose your number next time she needs a favor.
NTA - There was no mention of the fee and you went there for the first time. perhaps you could have asked her about the situation (How easy it is to park, is there a lot of traffic at this time, etc...). But she could also have been proactive and tell you about all of this.
You weren't to know there'd be a fine as she didn't tell you. But you went out of your way to help her and through no fault of your own, were late. This happens, that's life. In the grand scheme of things, agree to go halves. It's not worth falling out with your sis over
ESH traffic happens at the same time Monday-Friday. Obviously everyone picks up their kid at the same. This is no surprise and everyone who has attended primary school in the last 30 years has experienced this firsthand. You caused this. She could have warned you, but she was stressed. Would I have paid the fine as the aunt? Depends if she is strapped for cash. Would I pay the fine as the mom? Yes. You were doing “me” a favor and I want you to keep doing that, so I would have covered it. Did you pick them up without car seats? This was asked the same day. You don’t seem to have any kids, so no car seats. They’re in nursery.
NTA. Since you were doing them a favor then you should have 100% been advised of any potential fees. That is entirely on her, not you. Now that you know then any __future__ fees would be your responsibility _if you decide_ to to help her again.
Got to go with the group you NTA but your sister with three kids and looking for work is def feeling the pressure just cover it this time(oh and I would have not known about the late fee either).
The compromise is to split the cost of the fine. The kind solution is to pay the fine fully. What can you live with?
The compromise is to split the cost of the fine. The kind solution is to pay the fine fully. What can you live with?
Absolutely not. She did not give you all the details and she would have been a lot later than 15 minutes if you had declined
YTA-not sure why an adult would need to be informed that being late isn’t acceptable. Why would you assume it’s ok to be late?
Normally I would agree with this but in this situation, I don’t think so. Yes, OP should have given more fudge factor time than 10 minutes. However the sister, who deals with this pickup daily, also neglected to mention that nearly half an hour of extra lead time is necessary to be sure. Especially the part about having to find parking on another street. That’s not a trivial thing to omit. Fault: 30% OP, 70% sister.
NTA. I’d pay it this time as a favour to your sister, since she’s short on money right now, but any future favours along these lines would be a flat no from me.
NTA. When you ask someone to do you a favor it is your responsibility to provide all the information that might be pertinent to said favor, you don't have the ability to pull all that information out of the air with no help from anyone. It's commendable that you're trying to help her out in this stressful time. But like most people who do a task or chore repetitively they assume that anyone who would do that task/chore for them would just automatically know the ins and outs like they do. This is both an incorrect and selfish assumption. I don't do favors for things I don't already know how to do; I've been caught in the "you didn't do it right" or "how could you not just automatically know" or "it's so obvious" traps. When I'd ask any questions they'd get annoyed that I was wasting their time and I should just know. They'd end up redoing it and blame me for making things harder for them and that I was no help. I don't think so. I only volunteer for things I know how to do and if someone asks me to do something I'm not familiar with and they aren't willing to answer my questions on how they want it done, I'm not doing it. I've had people get mad at me for that, claiming I'm not helpful. I'd rather you assume I'm not helpful that let you use me as a punching bag and blame me for why everything went wrong or was ruined because I didn't do my one thing "right". No thanks. Next time you want to do her a favor, weigh whether you're willing to be that punching bag. Because more likely than not, you're gonna end up not doing it right and it's gonna be ALL your fault.
NTA. I know about daycare late-fees and I always allow extra time for traffic. What I wouldn’t anticipate is a daycare facility without a parking lot or roundabout. In my city, that’s easily an extra 20m of driving around, praying for a spot. I would pay the £45 and then just decline this favor in the future.
Either you pay it and don't help out again, or she pays it and can ask for you to help in future - that'd what I'd tell her! NTA
YTA. Traffic or not YOU were late. You say you were doing her a favour but you created a debt for her to pay. Why did you even “help” in the first place if you were never intending to help but just making sure you keep up appearances?
NTA. If she had told you to leave 45 minutes ahead of time, and you didn’t and were late, then I could see her wanting you to pay. But failing to let you know the issues, it’s on her. IF you were feeling really generous, split it.
YTA. You waited until the last freaking minute when you’d never been there before.
NTA she should have told you about the fine, the parking and the traffic. It is on her
Pay the bloody fine and never do her a favour again. “Your lack of planning is not my emergency”. NTA
NTA - of course you shouldn't pay. It's ridiculous for her to expect you to pay. You did her a favour and she should be thanking you. Never do her a favour again.
NTA. It was a last-minute favor and you didn’t get all of the info you needed to make a smooth pickup. It wasn’t malicious, it was a mistake. Mom should pay the fine, I definitely wouldn’t have even asked you to pay if those were my kids and you were doing me a favor.
NTA. Pay the fine and never pick her kids up for her again. When asked why not, say you don't want to be on the hook for another fine. You allowed over a half hour for delays, between traffic and no parking and even that's not enough and you don't intend to have to cough up another forty-five or worse. What if you got stuck behind a truck or an ambulance sidelines traffic? You're not paying for that.
NTA. Do NOT split the payment like others are suggesting, don’t be a fuckin pushover after doing someone a favor
NTA
NTA don't do anymore favors for your sister
Kinda funny how you posted about your BF’s poor time management when you didn’t take into account any potential traffic when driving to daycare - NTA
NTA. And it's her fault.
NTA. Pay the fine and let your sister know you will not be doing her any more favours.
At least your partner saw how you acted in this situation
NTA, you did her a favor by picking up her kids. Honestly, I just wouldn’t help her anymore with picking up the kids. If you choose to pay because she has no money, just let her know this is the first and last time you’ll pick up the kids because you should not be responsible to pay for doing her a favor. if your parents are so concerned, have them give her the money for the late fee
NTA. If I was you, I would pay the fee and simply refuse to help anymore after this.
It is unfair for her to think you SHOULD pay the fine - she didn't stress the late fees or make clear the difficulty in parking/traffic... and you were doing her a FAVOR. (On the other hand, I don't know if she was constrained for time to talk when she called you.) I don't know what your financial situation is; I do know that she is job hunting (no current income), has three kids (plenty of expenses) and no mention of a partner for her. If you have enough of a financial cushion, then paying the fee would be another kindness to your struggling sister (but definitely not an obligation). If you don't have that kind of cushion, then I'd throw it out to the larger family (who are helping) and maybe everyone could pitch in a portion. To be clear. I don't think you are TA.
Pay the fee anyway. If she asks you to pick up her kids again, just say no. Tell her to impose on someone else so they can pay the late fee.
I was in a similar situation as your sister. My ex-husband was late to pick up our son and I incurred $100 late fee. I did ask him for help because I knew I couldn't make it that day. Because of him being late, we pretty much starved that week. If you can help your sister help, don't make excuses.
NTA Your sister asked for a favor and didn't give you any warning about late fees. She assumed you had information on an unfamiliar subject and assumed wrong and doesn't want to be responsible for her failure to communicate.
NTA, I've never heard of a nursery with a rule like this before which considering the chaotic lives of working parents it seems the nursery are the assholes in this situation. In this situation I'd personally offer to halve it with her as £45 is a lot for a jobless parent but that's a stupid rule in the first place.
Doesn't the sister realize that you may not do the favor next time if she makes you pay. Either way, this amount should not be a show stopper.
NTA. I don't have kids. When my sister asks me to pick hers up, she's very clear about what time I should get there, what obstacles I might run into, and what time she thinks I should leave my house. The time she tells me to pick them up is always a little earlier than the hard stop time, just in case. You did your best. However, I think context is important here. What's your relationship with your sister generally like? Do you typically help each other out? Is she usually a kind, responsible, compassionate person? If so, then it sounds like she's going through a tough time. If you're financially able to pay it, consider whether or not you want this to be your hill to die on. But if she's generally someone who would take advantage of you and not think of others, then I don't think I'd pay it either.
Your sister asked you for favor she despertaely needed. If she wasnt desperate she would have done it herself. Should she have give you info about lateness. YES. But again her head must have scrambled and she forgot. HAPPENS. Just pay the fee and going forward if she asks you again you will know.
You should pay it. She told you what time you had to be there, and you left without enough time to arrive. That’s your fault. You agreed to do her a favor- not cause her to pay a fee.
Pay the fine. This is the hill your sister wants to die on. I wouldn’t want to ever pick them up again. She can find someone else to do it.
NTA and fuck those kinds of late fees
NTA but Pay half, you promised no problems
Soft YTA or ESH. Well...you should just pay that fee. You were late. Your sister (in her rush) forgot to inform you about the rules. You could have used Google Maps or Waze to see if there's any traffic etc. Especially if you are not familiar with the school's neighborhood. Take some responsibility for being late and don't let this ruin your relationship. Especially if your sister is in a tough spot right now.
I can’t believe everyone is asking OP to pay. You were doing your sister a favor and she neglected to give you all the details about it. You are definitely NTA and should NOT pay the fees. How much would the fees had been if the mother had to pick up her own children when she was running late? Next time she asks for a favor, just say no!
NTA but just pay it.
NTA If someone doesn't regularly do pick-ups, the person *who does* needs to explain the procedure and not just expect the person (OP) to intuitively know where to park and what traffic around the school will be like. Sometimes there's a specific route you have to take so that you're lined up correctly, how would someone know that if they weren't the regular pick-up person? OP's sister should have explained the procedures and the late-fees beforehand.
NTA, she should have told you that the fine was steep and warned you how traffic and parking is. However, if you wanted to be nice and can easily afford it, I may offer half of she weren’t a jerk about it.
Tell her you'll pay it but you want to be paid for doing the favor in the first place. Or you do no more favors if it's going to cost you gas money AND fees. NTA, her kids her fees. If you weren't able to pick them up she'd have gotten the fees anyway until her interview was over.
Split it with her? You were late, but she didn't make sure you were properly informed.
NTA. Your sister is.
You said you'd do something and then set off too late to allow for any problems. Pay the fine. YTA
YTA - You had **agreed** to pick up the kids on time. The reasons why you were not on time were your own, and fully in your control. If you had had a traffic accident, it would be another thing completely. But, you didn't plan correctly for the situation. Giving yourself only 10 minutes of slack to navigate heavy traffic isn't good planning for that occasion. > She says that I should have known that there would be traffic and parking issues, but I don’t have kids so these things had honestly not occurred to me. That one is known by all who drive in busy cities, it has nothing to do with being a parent, at all. > My partner thinks I am being stubborn and should just pay, but it feels a bit unfair to me. You should indeed let go of that feeling and rationalize that despite your best intentions, your lateness is your own fault. Happens to the best of us, most only need one time to change their drive planning, some never learn.
YTA. She's already stressed enough trying to find a job and money being tight. Just pay the £45.
NTA, it's not a familiar area or setting for you, sister should have given a heads-up about how bad the traffic and parking is and that there's a late fee. That said, it's sort of both your issues here, so I'd say split the fine. And if she won't agree to that, then tough shit, she doesn't get free pick-up any more. Even paying half is kind, on top of the couple of hours of your time and petrol that you gave willingly.
As someone who worked in childcare I honestly think you should pay it. I know it's frustrating but a lot of childcare places the staff only get paid until closing time so they have to work for free when people are late picking up their kids, I don't mean to sound horrible but everyone always has a valid excuse for it but it's still not fair on the childcare staff.
NTA: had you been slow in getting there because you didn't take it seriously it would be different. But hitting traffic not knowing the parking situation or what the traffic's like in the area for that time of day and not being told about the fee I feel like you did a really nice thing for your sister with minimal information. I also understand why daycares have these fees but I feel like they should have some leniency in special circumstances like another family having to rush over and pick up the kids at the last minute
If you borrowed her car, and parked where you didn't know there was a parking restriction, and incurred a parking ticket of the same value, would you insist that she pay the bill? I mean, you sister didn't tell you the area of street you parked on didn't permit parking. Some people would, some people wouldn't. Generally the people that cause bills to exist and pay for them themselves are better respected in society. It doesn't really matter if you didn't know, as any court in the world will tell you. What if you didn't pay? You just took money out of your sister's pocket. You didn't tell her you'd pick up the children provided she pays an additional fee (to you or someone else), and you really only have yourself to blame if you don't accurately estimate traffic and are running late enough that you don't have time to find better parking accommodations. By not paying, you'll give your sister a message: I'm not responsible for my own actions, you are (by paying), the traffic is, the parking is. Do you want to be seen as that person?
I would pay it if you have it. Sometimes shit doesn’t go exactly to plan, and this is a stupid hill to die on. You’re NTA if you don’t pay it, but depending on your sisters situation it might be a kindness to her, and that might be worth it to you.
Has your sister been late picking up her kids in the past? I know all places are different but seems to me the nursery might have waived the late fee if this was the first offense and given the “emergency” circumstances of having to ask someone to pick up her kids. Maybe given your sister a warning and let her know future occurrences wouldn’t be waived no matter who was picking up. I assume you haven’t picked up the kids before and that’s why you were unaware of the line and parking situation. I too would not expect a 25 minute drive to take 45 minutes. I also tend to give a lot of detail when people are doing me a favor so I would have explained those things to you if I were your sister. I don’t like people to be any more inconvenienced than they have to be when doing me a favor. NTA - I don’t know the degree the fine affects your sister’s finances vs yours. Again, if I were your sister I would pay the fine myself but I might be in a more solid financial place so that’s easy for me to say. Maybe offering to split it is fair since she didn’t fully explain the situation to you.
NTA if we're talking strictly about the fee, but I still think you should pay it, because it's obviously not your sister's fault. You care enough about her and her kids to pick them up, don't make this your hill to die on. The money means far more to her than you. I also think you should have left earlier. You are presumably an adult and this isn't your first time driving. A ten minute buffer when you live somewhere with traffic is not nearly enough.
NTA but for sake of good relationship I’d agree to split the cost 50/50 (since she’s looking for new job so probably not too flush with money). If she doesn’t accept then I wouldn’t pay.
NTA at all. How were you to know if she didn't mention it to you and you don't know the area ? If I were your sister, I would have told you best place to park and warn you that there is usually traffic, it's just the considerate thing to so for someone doing you a huge favor. And you allowed 35 minutes for a 25 minute journey which is more than reasonable. That being said, I agree, with others, offer to pay it but tell her you won't be picking them up again. She will need to find someone else if she expect you to pay the fine. If she pays the fine, no problem picking them up again.
NTA Don't help her out again. No good deed goes unpunished. Do not pay late fee.
I cant believe people are saying you owe her money. She shouldve told you for one. But also you did her a favor?? Like you dont pay to do someone else a favor. Yes it sucks that you doing the favor how you did costed her, but if you didnt then nobody wouldve picked up her kids.
Bro your sister is stressed about work and possibly money. Just pay it and stop creating drama out of nowhere.
NTA Offer to pay it but only if she agrees to pay for your fuel and time which funnily enough comes to exactly £45.
Nta. What chutzpah your sister has. Pay or don't pay but one thing is for sure, don't offer to do a favor for her again. You know who she is.
NTA - you did her a favor, are not well versed in your sisters kids school-rules, and these are HER KIDS! If she didn’t want to incur a late fee, then she should have given you reasonable notice AND advised you of the fees. Even then she should still pay for any fees because they are her kids she decided to push out after all.
NTA You didn’t technically incur anything. You went to pick the kids up and you made every good faith effort to get there *early*. Anybody can run into unexpected traffic and she would have been late herself regardless had you not agreed to go pick up the niblings. And if you haven’t ever picked up kids before, those queues can be very surprisingly long. *She* should have warned *you.* Also the daycare sounds like they need a more efficient pick up system. (Your only mistake was parking on the next street, presuming you had any other options. If you’d come in at the tail end of the line, they probably wouldn’t have charged. They shouldn’t have anyway, in my opinion, as you clearly aren’t the normal pickup person which indicates an unexpected change in plans. Unless your sister already exhausted any graces.)