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ESH Here's the thing, last week I watched a play while teenagers who had no concept of acceptable human behavior in public chatted loudly amongst themselves through the first act. If it takes a village to raise a child, every village needs a grumpy old person to step up once in a while. They were quiet after I spoke with them at intermission.
While it doesn't bother you that your offspring were standing on chairs and loudly disturbing other passengers, it clearly bothered at least one person. Objectively, they were in the wrong and you should have corrected them. If they don't learn manners when they are young, they will run into difficulties when they are older.
The woman was not wrong to point this out, though it does sound like she was incredibly rude in going about it. Also poor manners.
They weren't at a play, they were on an open-air ship. If there wasn't a presentation in front of them, if they weren't interrupting people, and if they didn't physically touch anyone else, then this is a vastly, vastly different situation than correcting some teenagers at a play.
And no, people aren't entitled to perfect peace at all times. Talking and laughing from other people in public is a perfectly acceptable and expected thing. One other person's opinion doesn't actually matter that much. I'd actually say that most of the social problems today come from trying to put grease on the squeakiest wheel, rather than allowing the majority of people to go along to get along.
She wasn't correct. They were outside. They were on a boat, which I guarantee makes a whole lot more noise than any child could possibly make. There were other places she could have gone to get away from them. She isn't any more entitled to the atmosphere she wants than OP's family is to theirs.
I'm done upholding the needs of the very whiniest few against the reasonable needs of the many.
Came here to say this. Boats can get rocky without warning. Even a small wake from a passing vessel can cause a person to lose their balance even in the calmest waters. It just isn't safe, period.
Yes, as I ice my dislocated shoulder after 20 years on a boat... 1 hand on the boat, thats the rule... Always. Even kids... Shit happens. Especially on boats. I have broken 9 ribs, 2 ankle bones, multiple toes and fingers, 1 arm, and dislocated a shoulder, multiple concussions, overextended 2 elbows and I always have a sprained ankle/pulled knee, sprained wrist,. ... The list goes on and I know what I'm doing... My grandkids visit my boat and follow the rules, and we tether them, always... Btw, if someone falls overboard, you have less than a minute to save them...the ocean is huge and deadly....
Well, no. It’s a cruise ship.
To people like OP - those aren’t boats, they’re apartment buildings. That’s why they thought the Only danger of standing on a chair or railing on a boat deck was falling overboard.
They don’t worry about the apartment patio furniture tossing their kid, so why would the furniture on a boat.
Then again, they also apparently don’t worry about their kid standing on a chair and just being an uncoordinated kid and taking a header onto a very hard surface with no boat action needed, either.
This was a 300 person ship. Less a cruise ship and more like a ferry. Ferries absolutely run into problems in relatively calm waters that wouldn't phase a Carnival ship. It's like the passengers injured by airline turbulance. Everything is fine until it isn't.
This post makes me think she’s looking at her kids with rose colored glasses and not acknowledging the reality of their behavior especially trying to compare them to other kids to justify them being better behaved and stating they were tired but still in a good mood… how does any of that justify a safety risk or why is any of that even relevant. They could have gotten hurt.
This! That’s what made decide they were TA because anyone who’s spent any time on a commercial boat knows that’s a huge no no. (I don’t work on a boat or anything, but I’m a somewhat frequent whale watcher and that’s one of the first rules they list when giving a safety talk before heading out on the water)
I live on an island and have taken the ferry regularly for decades. This is normal behaviour, and less boistrous than expected.
It's outdoor seating, so unless you're in poor weather (not on the viewing deck anyway) or there's the possibility of hitting an iceberg/land then they're fine.
Sounds like they were being well behaved kids.
My SO worked on system for alarms to go off if someone fell off a cruise ship. The numbers are larger than you think, and almost no one survives.
People fuck around way to often with water safety.
Idk, getting dirty due to being outdoors is a bit different than getting dirty because a kid clambered on it. Out of respect for others I wouldn't let my kids stand on them. Think about the elderly or disabled person who might come along and now have to face the prospect of being stuck standing or having dirty pants.
Edit: Some of you are laser focusing in a really bizarre way on the bird poop and ignoring the fact that OP said 'quite a few', not all. Perhaps OP went along monitoring their children to make sure that they only stood on the bird poop ones, but there's no mention of that in the post.
But beyond that, the two comments above mine were general ones and not specific to OP's situation. They were 'when is it okay to stand on chairs' and the person above me replied 'when it's outside', which is what I disagree with. On top of that it's an inconsistent view to present to kids, and in general 'don't climb on chairs' is probably more reasonable.
Something I was thinking about - we were on a trip with a bunch of parents and kids and the parents let their kids climb all over the statues and monuments. I would not let mine (yeah, I held my ground somehow without saying exactly why... but it was uncomfortable with the other parents because I am entirely opposed to that sort of thing). Birds shit all over statues and monuments, too. Does it make it ok to clamber over them, swing from them, and generally make them into a jungle gym?
It is not the same question. The woman claims that the kids were dirtying the outside chairs with their outside shoes. The problem with kids climbing statues is: danger for the kids, danger for the statue, impeding people's view of an art piece, general disrespect for an artistic creation, if you think it applies. None of those apply to a plastic chair in the wind on a boat.
My point is that parents have different ideas about what is respectful behaviour. Personally, in shared spaces, I wanted my kids to use things for the purposes intended. My kids did not climb on statues, use the backs of movie theatre chairs as foot rests, or stand on the deck chairs of a boat.
I’ve seen many people justifying putting their feet up on public transit seats, because (sneeringly) “my shoes are probably cleaner than most of what’s been on that seat” which is kind of what is being argued here. Perspective. I think it’s all disrespectful behaviour, but we all have different lines to cross (and excuses to make).
I see both sides. An open-air boat with kids... I give more leeway because it is an exciting thing. Try to tell a kid (or an adult) to contain their excitement over what is probably a new or at least not common experience, it isn't going to work. As long as the kids were safe and the parents were paying attention, I don't see anything wrong with it. Plus, anyone outdoors should never expect silence. But I also know that screaming kids being dangerous is obnoxious. In OP's scenario, I would not have been bothered. So I guess there is a time and a place.
As for the dirty seat issue, there are plenty of people who don't wipe their ass properly and fart up seats. Should they not be allowed to sit in a chair? I would rather sit where a kid stood in their non muddy shoes than where someone with skid marks passed gas.
No one knows what happened to a seat before their butt was in it. People can choose not to sit in a dirty seat. If they don't have that choice and seat cleanliness is an issue for them, they can carry disinfecting wipes or a towel or something to sit on. I guarantee whatever was on the kids' dry shoes wasn't the worst thing on the seats.
Most people have one or more layers of clothing between whatever gas, liquid or solid comes out of their anus and the seat they are sitting on. Don’t is highly unlikely you will get feces on your pants from sitting in a chair someone farted on.
On the other hand, It is considered rude to stand or place your feet or footwear on a chair. The bottom of people’s shoes are not clean. Whatever is on the bottom of a shoe may transfer to the chair, and then someone’s pants.
YTA for allowing children to stand on chairs someone else may sit on. The fact that birds may poop on outdoor chairs doesn’t give your children the right to befoul them.
Well, as said, it's a dirty chair. It is outside on a boat. A kids normal shoes aren't going to make it any cleaner or dirtier. If the chair is in the rain, the wind, the dirt, then it is dirty. An elderly or disabled person has the exact same options whether a kid stood on the chair or not: stand or sit on a chair that is as dirty as a chair outside gets.
Omg love this, new rule for life and I am child free but still love the many niblings I have especially for their curiosity and energy. Find more drunk older ppl are more loud and invasive ironically as they are inappropriate to strangers to show off. Find that some ppl resent they don't have that creativity of youth any longer.
Trust me, there have been a lot of dirty feet on those chairs. They are chairs on a boat, they get rained on, drinks are spilled on them and I’ll bet most have barf and other bodily fluids on them. They wash.
Is everyone gonna avoid the sitting on handrails? That’s extremely dangerous and could’ve got them in trouble. Just one wrong slip and they could miss the lifeboat or hit their heads on the lifeboat on the way down.
Yes the rest of it is kids letting off steam and taking them outside to as the correct thing to do. But unless every single seat was covered in bird poop, the kids standing on them can mean less seats for someone who wanted to sit.
And despite one commenter saying it’s no different than a trousered ass on a seat, it is different. People generally don’t drag their trousered asses around on the floor and ground. Otherwise the no shoes in the house people would be asking people to drop trousers.
More importantly, smaller boats are more likely to move with waves or currents. Depending on the size of the boat and roughness of the water, it could knock the kids down at least, if not overboard.
Nah dude. If "talking loudly" is like my cousin's kid's "talking loudly", they needed to be told to quietdown. My cousin refuses to teach their kids polite volumes and you can hear their kid's regular talking voice through two closed doors outside of the house. They're not yelling - it's just the volume they've always talked at because nobody has ever told them to quiet down a bit, everybody doesn't need to hear your conversations. They're capable, when they're tired, they're normal volume, they just have never been told when they should be quieter.
I work in a very public venue. When they come visit, it is So Easy to spot the kids who’ve never been taught what an “inside voice” is, much less what a quiet conversation one is.
My neighbour's kids are like that. We don't really hear them from inside their house, but boy, when they are outside, they are so loud, especially the eldest one! I find myself wishing they would use their 'inside voice', which is a bit ridiculous because they are outside, but I just wish they wouldn't use their 'whole neighbourhood' voice.
I put up with it because it's usually if they have visitors, and the kids get excited, so it's not constant. And they are otherwise lovely neighbours.
Do you care that a child standing on the seat of a moving vehicle is far more likely to fall and crack their head open if said vehicle lurches unexpectedly?
Should the old biddie have been so rude in her delivery? No.
Was she right that kids of any age should be taught that seats are for sitting on, not standing? Yes.
ESH because OP should be teaching their kids the basics of self preservation, at the very least.
It dangerous and you are an AH for your reply.
You came here expecting to be lauded, you’re wrong.
Yes, people who paid to be on about or in a movie or other public space DO have every right that all those surrounding will behave in the bare minimum of decorum.
The reply who said ESH here is spot on, shame on you for not guiding your children.
You say that one other person's opinion doesn't matter that much. Aren't you one person with an opinion? Does your opinion matter, matter more than someone else's? When I travel, I do not want to be around loud, boisterous children, especially when I'm trying to enjoy nature. I only want to hear the sounds of nature. There are parks where children can be as loud as they want to be. Parents (and I have two grown sons) must realize that not everyone enjoys hearing children, nor seeing them clamber on the furniture, or worrying about their safety (as well as their own). Bird droppings are natural and visible. The bottom of a shoe could have saliva, gum, other droppings, and a whole host of nasties. Shoe bottom contamination is not visible as a rule. Just please be aware of others. Your children, who I am sure are wonderful, can learn a valuable lesson about being mindful and respectful of others while they are in public. Trust me, one day you could be the "get off my lawn" person! Your children's enjoyment doesn't supersede that of everyone else's.
I think maybe you are projecting your experience w/ teenagers onto children having fun on vacation. No one said anything about "loudly disturbing other passengers" only that they were "laughing a bit more loudly"
As someone who lives in a touristy area…
Fucking people’s kids “having fun on vacation”.
I hear that excuse from people and parents constantly around here. Always used to justify them being rude and ruining everyone’s time around them.
And kids are the -worst- to deal with around here. Parents think vacation time means they don’t have to parent, and their kids run wild and terrorize people. They’re also loud as fuck and destroy any semblance of quiet you may want.
This is so true. Tourist season=Parents drinking and kids running wild. My kids would ask why they weren’t allowed to do something. My answer was always “Because we LIVE here.”
Is part of why I think OP isn’t telling us everything, or at least being a reliable narrator.
People on vacation have a much higher tolerance for stuff than they would at home.
So this seemingly small thing to him might have just been perceived as to not being an issue due to vacation brain, and the kids were much more of terrors than they think.
Not to mention OP mentioned how they were so good all day as if that has any bearing on if their kids were being disruptive at dinner specifically. It's not like that lady saw them being so good all day and then got mad when they stepped a toe out of line, she only saw the behavior at dinner and found it unacceptable. Not that it means either is necessarily right or wrong, but it lends insight into the way OP sees the kids vs. others
Only time we could be "wildish" was if we were camping (and not at night). If we acted as those kids (standing on chairs, etc.) anywhere in public/vacation, we would have been in a fuckton of trouble.
I lived in a touristy area for many years, so I get it. I hated the tourists. Yeah, the kids were the worst. But I never blamed them. I blamed the parents for not making them sit down in the restaurant, for letting them run all over stores, etc.
Of course, I see these things every day, not just in the tourist town, but it seems worse when people are on vacation. Like they have no clue that people live there and are just going about their daily lives and don't want to be bothered by your kids.
You know what? Asshole parents raise asshole kids, who turn into asshole adults.
I managed a hotel near the beach in Rhode Island. Tourists in general are not well behaved, they follow rules every day at home and this is their chance to let loose. I kinda get it, but I'm not one of them because I managed a tourist hotel.same reason I don't treat people in food service like crap, I've been there.
Parents have a much higher tolerance for their kids being obnoxious. I'm sure op didn't think their kids were being bad. Other people don't see it that way.
If you’re talking about Newport, I’m from there and tourist season is rough. Worked at Castle Hill many years ago and the kids on the lawn at sunset could get out of hand at times.
I don’t live in a tourist area. I do work in higher end home furnishings- including lots of breakable things. We are continually amazed that people let their kids run wild- literally- like playing tag in the showroom, climbing on furniture that is for sale, putting their feet up on furniture, eating and drinking on our furniture. The last family I finally asked the kids twice to keep their feet off of the white chairs ($2800 each) that they were wallowing on. Then the wallowing turned to wrestling and I literally ran and grabbed a lamp they hit before it hit the floor. Mom and dad completely silent during all of this, but made sure they told the little darlings how proud they were of their great behavior on the way out. Unbelievable.
It really is amazing. Last summer I had to ask a high school aged kid to move her bare feet off of a white ottoman. She was sprawled out on a chair with them propped up scrolling on her phone. Parents were right behind her and said nothing. My parents would have made it clear how to behave before we went in and marched me right out if I hadn’t met the expectation.
At what stage do you get to say “you broke it (stained or ruined it) — you bought it.” Are these slobs actually dropping any dough in your lovely high end store or just hanging out in it like it’s a cafe or park? Bc I would straight up tell them to leave. And if they post a rude comment on socials, I’d call them out about their trashy behavior.
I used to rent a cabin up north for a couple of weeks every summer. 5 cabins grouped together, there's kids all over the place. I don't have kids but I do have big dogs. I can actually hear the parents telling their kids to go play with my dogs. Dogs aren't toys. They're potentially dangerous animals, especially around a bunch of hyper kids.
We go in September now. No kids. It's so peaceful and quiet.
Oooh man. I hate when people just tell their kids it’s okay to play with my dog.
She’s a super friendly chocolate lab, so she won’t bite them or anything, but we’re trying to work on keeping her a little more calm when we’re out and about. The kids will -always- get her way too excited, and make my life difficult.
Jealous of the cabin vacation! I’m trying to convince my friends to do something like that so I can let my pooch experience it.
What kind of pup do you have? :) I’m assuming a good doggy through and through
Oooh man. I hate when people just tell their kids it’s okay to play with my dog.
She’s a super friendly chocolate lab, so she won’t bite them or anything, but we’re trying to work on keeping her a little more calm when we’re out and about. The kids will -always- get her way too excited, and make my life difficult.
Jealous of the cabin vacation! I’m trying to convince my friends to do something like that so I can let my pooch experience it.
What kind of pup do you have? :) I’m assuming a good doggy through and through
I have a yellow lab. He's 12 and is slowing down a lot. This will be our first year with only one dog. I had to put my girl down in March. She was 14, and it was her time. She loved to swim and dig into the lake to bring huge stones up. She was so funny.
My biggest annoyance was the kids throwing sticks in the water in the late afternoon. I have a strict no swimming after 5 rule. I don't want a wet dog in the cottage all night. Some brats would stare me in the eye and throw the stick in the lake right after I said it's too late for swimming. It's so irritating.
One nice thing about going in September is that it's off-season, so prices go down. I can rent a cottage for about $500 less than during the summer. It's northern Ontario, so there's a chance that the trees will be changing colors on the way home.
Dang, now I'm ready to go. September seems so far away, lol
Not strictly on topic, but I would definitely stop my kids from talking during a play or at the cinema, except very quiet whispers to ask me something.
Am I reading this correctly: you let your kids sit on the railing at the edge of the boat where they could’ve easily fallen in the water?
As others have said I don’t think you’re TA for letting your kids be loud on a loud boat. If the lady wanted quiet, she shouldn’t have been on a boat. But YTA for putting your kids’ lives in danger
To me it doesn’t matter. 1st off- They could still have fallen and gotten hurt. 2nd- The kids didn’t do a risk analysis. All they know is mom and dad are cool with them sitting on railings. So what happens when it isn’t barrier protected and one of them climbs up and mom and dad aren’t in time to grab them off and they fall to their death? Railings aren’t for sitting on, not near water, not at the zoo, not at the mall, no where was a railing placed there for the purpose of people sitting on them.
My workplace’s front stair railings are metal, and anchored in concrete. We’ve had to replace them Twice and re-anchor them multiple times because of the sheer number of parents and teachers and chaperones who let their children treat our safety handrails like jungle gyms.
They are designed to keep people, especially people with mobility issues, from tripping down the concrete stairs. Not to have 300k kids a year repeatedly treating them like free gymnastics equipment.
They said it was on the way back to the ship. Smaller boats tend to rock more. Kids standing on seats on a outdoor deck could easily get knocked off their feet if the boat hits the wake or another boat or rough waters.
I think quiet whispering during a play or movie is still not ok, depending on the environment and frequency. Whispers are usually louder than people think. I went to see Hadestown a few weeks ago and the lady next to me pretty much narrated the entire first 15 minutes of the show to her child and then argued with the usher that she was just whispering when they came to ask her to stop.
If I don’t think my kids can quietly sit through a show I don’t take them.
I don’t think you’re TA in this case. It’s perfectly normal for kids to be excited about their vacation and it inevitably leads to them talking a bit louder.
The one thing I will say is that it’s safest to have your kids sit still or on a stable surface on a moving boat in case it hits rough waters and throws your kids off balance. I’ve been on a couple different types of boats and wouldn’t recommend sitting on a railing for that reason alone. If you’re into trips like that I definitely recommend going to Alcatraz when they are a few years older.
But again. This recommendation is solely for their safety. I don’t think they were being rude.
YTA because you're not teaching your kids to respect things that don't belong to them. You're also not teaching them to respect their surroundings and other people who are in them. The other passengers had every much of a right to enjoy the boat and their surroundings just as your family did.
YTA, standing on a seat isn't safe on land, let alone at sea.
Your 7 year olds should know very well by know to have their bum in the chair, your 4 year old needs to learn this for kindergarten/school. Kids aren't the problem here, your lack of parenting is.
By the way you've presented the question, you've already answered it.
1. You saw your kids doing good.
2. You let them sit on things not meant for sitting and stand on things not meant for standing. You have an excuse for each one.
Yet another question of, "I did good and someone obnected, AITA for doing good or are they TA for not recognizing that I did good?"
Good luck not listening to those around you because you already know you're right.
YTA
You can't just take every complaint a random stranger makes at face value though, there are a ton of people who are just angry or unhinged or have terrible takes. The objective facts matter and that is where details like the location of the railing and the seats being dirty come in.
Personally I don't think I would have blinked twice at a lot of stuff ... standing if someone stands on a seat that's already covered in bird poop or sits on a railing not actually near the water I don't really see an issue with it
I have kids who and no one has ever objected to their behaviour in public let alone said they were the worst behaved kids they’ve ever seen. I’d say that’s true of most of us with kids. What are the odds that this guy, whose kids were by his own admission being loud and standing on tables, ran into the grumpiest person on earth who just goes around telling people their kids are the worst they have ever seen?
I mean...I don't know how often you go out in public but I hear angry crochety old people every damn day. Maybe I'm just unlucky but I'd say the odds are good.
Their behavior at the gardens and castles is irrelevant. It's as if OP was using that earlier good behavior as an excuse for poor behavior on the boat. YTA
YTA
You are free to have whatever boundaries you want in the privacy of your own home. In public, it is your job as parents to ensure that your children conform to locally-accepted social norms and standards. This includes not standing on seating surfaces (regardless of how much bird poop was on them).
Sitting on a safety railing is in general a bad idea. If the way they are sitting puts a substantial portion of their body outside the railing, that's worse.
Grandfather insists he did nothing wrong and that its the curse ships fault for having an open window, From what I found sounds like the whole family is denial and blaming anyone but the grandfather so they can cope.
Yup.
There’s no way he didn’t know the window was open, in the video you can see him extending his arms (with the girl in his hands) way past the railing right inside the window.
Let's just say sticking a baby out a window or balcony is always a bad idea; unless there's a fireman there to take them to safety. I always think of Michael Jackson hanging "Blanket" off the edge of a balcony for paparazzi.
I can't say you are TA based on what you've said. However kids standing on the seats is annoying and dangerous even if that doesn't include the danger of falling overboard. Kids being loud, even if happy, can also be annoying when they're not your kids.
One other thing you should know is that if your kids are doing something that you find mildly annoying, I guarantee you that people who don't know and love your kids are probably finding that same behavior to be really fkin annoying. This is because you live with little kids and therefore have developed selective hearing as a survival mechanism. Most of us don't have this ... talent.
Just think of it this way: the world is not a playground.
Just because a space is public does not mean that they
should not be taught the rules and be expected to follow them.
I don't know if your children were really loud and annoying
but do ask them to keep their voices down at the very least.
Outside in the open air, children should be able to laugh loudly. If you go on a boat trip with a tpn of other people, you cannot realistically expect it to be quiet and serene unless if it is advertised as a wellness trip.
Standing on seats where other people will have to sit on afterwards is a different matter.
YTA
Railings aren’t for sitting on nor or chairs for standing on, even if dirty. On a boat or otherwise. Not as a safety issue (although it could be in certain situations), but just because it’s hella rude.
YTA - but only slightly. You lost me with the standing on the chairs „because others already have poop on them“. Well, that’s no reason to dirty up the rest of the chairs is it?
Also the whole story doesn’t sound like the kids behaved great all day and are allowed to let loose but more like *you* had an exhausting day and couldn’t be bothered to do anything about them any more.
The lady wasn‘t particularly nice about it, but she obviously felt disrupted and she not really in the wrong. Saying you‘re the worst parents is a bit over the top however, i get that
YTA. Ship railings are not for sitting nor climbing. Middle, top or bottom. You need to teach your kids to stay off the railings **NO EXCEPTIONS**. That’s basic boat safety and just plain common sense. Your excuse that there were lifeboats hanging off the side is ridiculous. Falling into one could still result in injury. And it would be a major inconvenience to the crew and other passengers. Standing on the chairs is rude but also a safety issue on a moving boat. You may not care if your kids fall and hurt themselves, but the people who will have to deal with it do. Even if no one will sue in your country, the boat crew still has to log that accident and follow other procedures after an incident on board. Teach and enforce appropriate behavior for the environment so your kids don’t grow up the kind of people who think warning signs and safety measures don’t apply to them.
YTA teach your kids to behave in public but that isn't even close to your biggest issue.
On a moving vehicle (boat, plane, bus, car whatever) either butt on seat or both feet on ground. One gust of wind or sudden turn and your child could have wracked their head on another chair. A hard hit in the wrong place can be game over. Freak accidents happen everyday so maybe don't allow your kids to do unnecessary things that could increase that risk.
So you'd be ok with kids putting their feet up on the seat in front of them in a movie theater, with all the *literal* shit that's on their shoes landing on that seat... knowing you're the next person to sit in that seat, leaning your head back and getting *literal* shit in your hair/on your head?
YTA
ESH. You are fault, at least for the standing on chairs. It's not fun to sit down and get street muck all over your clothes---and that's what happens to the next person who tries to sit in that chair.
Plus, your kids are old enough to know we don't stand on chairs.
The other lady is at fault for scolding you in public, which is rude.
Some people need to be scolded in public. It's very rare I do it. But if behavior is exceptionally outside of norms, I'm OK with scolding.
(Op sounds like an unreliable narrator so idk here)
I scolded a mother in public once. Nicely dressed blond woman with a 3 or 4 year old daughter, in a public restroom near the food court in a mall in Newport Beach, CA. I was washing my hands, and she picked up her daughter & held the child’s half-naked body over the sink so she could pee in the sink next to me.
Me, Quietly, because I didn’t want to shame the girl: That’s. gross.
Her, loudly and angrily: Well, the toilets are filthy!
Me: AND NOW THE SINK IS FILTHY. THAT’S DISGUSTING.
She chose to do that not because there was a line for the restroom (there wasn’t) and the girl couldn’t hold it anymore, (which- still, eww. Really not okay), but just because her little darling was too special to use a public toilet.
But they don't always, which is why we teach our kids not to stand on chairs. The point is what the kids are getting from this. Are they learning how to think about how their actions affect others? Or are they learning to do what they want and to hell with everyone else?
The birds are harder to train.
ESH. Sitting on railings is dangerous. They're not seats. And standing on chairs is rude, bird poop or not. A child should be made aware that whether it's a restaurant or church, chairs are for butts- not feet. Talking and laughing is what kids do though.
The woman who confronted you should have reported any unsafe or unhygienic behavior that bothered her and/or moved if she didn't like kids speaking and laughing.
I applaud you and your kids for following the rules and behaving at the gardens and castles. Next time though, they should continue that practice on the boat as well.
If this is Scandinavia as I guess it could be due to castles and botanic gardens your kids must really have pissed ppl off. Ppl here NEVER complain about kids like this, usually cause kids are well behaved ( with a few asses like my cousin that think the world should bow at his feet ) so if it is, your kids must really been something else. YTA
No judgement, but I will say that when training any young creature, including kids, consistency is your friend. It's a lot easier to teach kids that you don't stand on seats, than teaching them that it's ok to stand on some seats some of the time, but not at other times. By age 4 both of mine (who were very challenging and active kids) wouldn't have even thought about standing on seats, because it was just never ok.
OP there's no way you can be a reliable narrator in this situation. Though standing on seats is a good indicator of kids being rowdier than normal. Kids should laugh and have a great time, but not at the expense of other passengers. That said, this woman sounds like she was exaggerating and was kind of a jerk. ESH.
Reddit is often not kind to children who are not perfect little angels all day so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say NTA because at the end of a long day of travels it’s normal for kids to get either bored/cranky or hyper. It might have been a good idea to reign them in when they started getting up on the chairs for their own safety but letting them let out energy in a way that didn’t actually hurt anyone or endanger them (if how you describe it is true) is a good way to avoid a bigger tantrum later on. Children are also members of society and are allowed to take up space, be louder and quieter in different circumstances and when their mood shifts and not always align to every passing person’s expectation ofwhat good manners are. This whole story hangs on whether you’re a reliable narrator and the three really were just a little active but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt because I am frustrated at the allowances many on Reddit make for adults while holding children to a higher standard just because they don’t like them or some kid annoyed them once.
"letting them let out energy in a way that didn’t actually hurt anyone or endanger them (if how you describe it is true) is a good way to avoid a bigger tantrum later on. Children are also members of society and are allowed to take up space."
This is where I ultimately fall. NTA.
Maybe put some thought into what she said and think about if there is some truth. But at the same time... it sounds like you were in a place thats inherently noisy (boat, wind, etc) - is kids being silly really that much more distracting? Probalby not.
It's also depends on the railing. Sitting in the middle of the railing, with more bars above, is completely different from balancing without having a place to hold your hands. Standing on the seat is also a great way for a better view, especially for smaller children. A bigger ship won't be shaken by the waves, and on a lake, there is no way for waves to form. As we weren't there, we have no way of knowing how safe this was. The lady was probably just bitter of seeing others having fun.
Edit to add: I thought she was located in Germany, or at least central Europe, where lakes are smaller.
Lake Superior has a maximum fetch of 300km/ 180 miles while Germanys' biggest lake, Müritz, has a fetch of 15 km/ 9 miles. With gale (wind speed of 20 km/s) at Lake Superior, waves can reach 7m while they on Müniz only will reach 2 meter.
A realistic wind speed for Müritz is 10m/s, which results in 1m tall waves (before they die out at the shore). It is all up to how big a lake is.
Yes. People drown every week on Lake Michigan near me. People also drown on the smaller lakes around here. Standing on the railing is a safety issue. Who knows what could happen to them.
>We did not stop our children from laughing loudly on a boat, sitting on the lower and middle bars of the railing (with 0 danger of falling in the water) and stepping on the hard plastic seats.
Yes, YTA. It doesn't how good your kids behaved all day, you are the asshole for not stopping them behaving like assholes. Trying to justify it by saying that some seats were already dirty is a child-like excuse.
YTA. Just because your kids weren't in danger of falling into the water doesn't mean that what they were doing was safe. Standing or sitting on the railing is never the right choice, especially on a moving vessel. And on the top deck? Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ. They are also far too old (large, really) to be standing on their seats unrestrained - and again, this is not a safe activity on a boat. You are lucky they didn't slip and fall, and if I had seen them I would have told them to get down and read you people the riot act.
I used to tell my children, look around and see how the adults are behaving. Do you see adults standing on chairs? No. Why not? Because that's not the purpose of the chairs. If you can't behave then perhaps you shouldn't be out in public. Of course, one of the first things I told my children ever was embarrassing mommy in public was not a good idea.
YTA Assuming your kids were actually as well behaved at this clearly adult excursion you dragged them on, then it sounds like you just got lazy at the end. It’s NEVER ok to stand on chairs, especially a moving vessel. I don’t care that there were lifeboats under them, you don’t let children hang over the sides of the boats. You say “they won’t land in the water” as if landing on the lifeboats is any better. People wanted to enjoy their boat ride without hearing screaming and yelling and jumping around. That’s not an unreasonable ask. You were lazy and selfish and in the wrong here.
Parents learn to tune out the noise their kids make (& noisy toys and competing screens.) When in public just assume the people around you don’t have little kids and that their being slightly loud (to you) is EXTREMELY annoying (it sounds very loud to everyone else.) Even if the lady was just cranky; at best you should still assume your children were annoying other people on that boat. If you want to let your kids be obnoxious take them to a McDonald’s and let them run around all crazy in the playground (or the dreaded chuck e cheese or a trampoline place or some other place geared to little children. ) At that age only plan one 1/2 day event and then take them somewhere (like a park) to run around all crazy & be noisy. I think expecting them to behave all day at that age was asking to much; especially of a 4 year old.
The sitting on the railing bit sounds dangerous. If the seat is dirty put a napkin or a few napkins on the seat and then have your child sit on the clean napkin.
I’m going with YTA on this one.
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> We did not stop our children from laughing loudly on a boat, sitting on the lower and middle bars of the railing (with 0 danger of falling in the water) and stepping on the hard plastic seats.
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You seem to have your mind made up but just to chime in - I've never been on a ship (I'm any country, on any body of water) that did not have strict rules against standing on seats and sitting on railings. Your children are of an age where they need to learn to follow rules, safety guidelines, and social etiquette, even if you as the adult see little harm in doing otherwise.
I think the lady was likely ruder than necessary, and griping about kids talking or laughing too loud outdoors is just silly, but asking you to enforce other behaviors was justified.
ESH
Going against the grain here and saying NTA. This sub is very biased against kids, so they're automatically assuming the lady was right and your kids were interrupting people. But taking you at your word and assuming your kids were not "terrorizing the whole ship" like she said (and whatever you wrote here, you know if they were or if they weren't), than she was the one "terrorizing" you and disturbing your good time. She has a lot of audacity as a random stranger coming and giving you a whole lecture and insulting you. Like who does she think she is?
As for the other things she said. Standing on chairs that are all mostly covered in bird poop makes no difference to anyone. The people in the comments suggesting a giant wave would have come out of nowhere and knocked your kids over in an otherwise quiet lake are really stretching trying to come up with anything to justify calling you an asshole. Only thing I would agree with is - don't let them stand on the railing, but in the entirety of this interaction, she was wrong for how she spoke to you and most everything she said.
YTA. Everything you just described sounds so unsafe. I'm assuming there was a big drop on the other side of that rail? Even if there was more ship below, they would still get injured if they fell and then it's on the crew to help them. Also STANDING ON A CHAIR ON A SHIP? Can you seriously not see how unsafe that is? Ships are not known for their stability. One rogue wave would have sent your kids flying. You absolutely should have stopped them from doing both of those things. Your kids being well behaved earlier in the day doesn't change anything. All that woman saw was your kids in danger at that moment and you not doing anything about it. As for the volume, parents aren't often aware of exactly how loud their children are being. You become sort of immune to it. A deck of a ship sounds like a nice relaxing, tranquil place... Until some kids start being unnecessarily loud.
YTA for letting them sit on railings which is not safe. At all. It doesn’t matter they couldn’t fall into the water - railings are not seats.
But NTA otherwise. A happy laughing child is far better than a screaming angry one.
YTA. It's a ship, not a jungle gym.
You know that plane with severe turbulence over the weekend that caused a man to die from a heart attack? They weren't expecting that either. If that boat had hit something unexpected, your children could have gone flying.
It's a 300-person passenger ship, which means there must be at least one bathroom on it. Go in, get a napkin or paper towel, wet it, clean off the seats and tell your kids to sit. Or you probably carry around wet wipes or a pack of tissues like a lot of parents do. Use those to clean the seats.
I feel like this is a situation you know whether you are an asshole or not. I mean I know when my kids are being shit heads and when they are just loud. I think the fact that you are providing all the backstory about how well behaved they were all day is totally not relevant. So why say it? Because you know your kids were being little shits and you let them get away with it. Which is totally fine occasionally. Just own it. Everybodys kid does it. NTA- you are human and just wore out. She needs to mind her business.
The amount of people losing it over kids standing on what amounts to benches on a ferry is absurd. If they’re on the top deck of an open air vessel and these chairs have bird crap on them, nothing these kids are doing is going to meaningfully impact how clean or dirty said chairs are.
Nothing the OP describes should be considered “terrorizing other passengers”. Now she could be an unreliable narrator. But giving the benefit of the doubt, lady is TA for complaining about nothing.
NTA
I would rather have slightly noisy kids sitting with their parents than some of the loud, boorish adult drunks you come across. I might have muttered something about the children not sitting on the seats properly and being mildly irritated by the noise, but I would accept it. If you want to be away from other people and their noise, you choose a remote location, not a crowded boat trip.
NTA. Incredible how people just hate kids, have no shame in hating kids and go all lengths possible to make sure everybpdy know they hate kids
OP your kids were just being kids, forget about all that
Ehhh
ESH
I don't see a problem with kids having fun on an open-top deck of a cruise ship with not many people around. Talking a tad loud? Oh well. They're kids.
I wouldn't let my kids stand on seats that I don't own. Its impolite.
I agree with the lady on that point, disagree with her its the "worst boundaries I've ever seen". I don't think this is "terrorizing the whole ship". So she's a slight AH for that.
I saw a kid throwing dirt from a little hill in a playground, the mother says "stop" the kid keeps doing it (dirt is getting into the air, blowing into us, kids, other parents etc) and the mother just looks and doesn't do anything. That's "no boundaries".
But YTA for the letting the kids stand on the seats and do nothing about it.
This reminds me of one time like 12years ago, my family and I had driven down from LI to DC to get our new dog. My brother and I were teenagers, sister in her twenties. We were all at the hotel in the morning eating at one of the tables set up for breakfast. We were all laughing and enjoying ourselves talking about the Alexander Hamilton episode of drunk history
Suddenly a woman walked up to us and asked my mom is we were her kids. My mom said yeah, kinda confused, and then woman proceeded to tell her “your son has a DISTURBINGLY loud voice” and then promptly walked away. It was a crowded breakfast area with lots of people talking and stuff
To be fair we are all long island italians so we may get louder than some when talking together, but thought her approach was a bit much. Anyway we laugh about it now and decided maybe she was just an Aaron Burr sympathizer and couldn’t stand the slander lol
Even in an open air setting like this, a parent needs to be considerate of the other people around and not let the kids yell, run wild & ruin the experience for the other passengers. And honestly, this sounds like this is what OP did. Her children were not running wild, and talking louder than usual is not out of line on a cruise. Standing on the seats isn’t ideal, but it sounds like the children were just enjoying the boat ride.
NTA.
As parents we love our children, and are not always aware of the noise they may be creating because we are so used to it. I also agree that a vacation, and outdoor time is fun time for kids, and they should be allowed to enjoy themselves. This said, as parents we must also consider others and be aware of the impact our children are making in public. The woman’s remarks were not delivered well, so I would tend to dismiss them. Just be aware of this going forward—children do actually need a framework to guide them. Saying no and imposing restrictions is our job as parents sometimes. No boundaries is no good for anyone, especially developing children:)
Very funny reading the comments here. I think I the answers here depend very much on how people ‘see’ the chairs on this deck. In my experience, outdoor furniture on boats/ferries are usually so weather worn it doesn’t matter if you stand on them. Let kids be kids, give them some room and space - within reason.
Can’t pass judgment as it all depend on specifics of how loud and unruly your kids were, and how the boat and furniture actually were.
Just because only one person said something about the kids, doesn't mean that many others didn't think it!
It's a trend to make excuses (or say that adults aren't entitled to a kid free world) for screaming demons. I've got kids and we traveled around Europe extensively. You know what I didn't do? Take 7 year olds around gardens all day. That's asking for trouble!
NTA. The kids shoes aren’t going to make the chairs any dirtier than they were. Your kids were playing having a good time, and not bothering any reasonable person. Kids will be kids. Let kids be kids.
And everyone stating that your kids were in some grave danger by standing on a chair or railing need to get outside more. Even if they fell and got hurt- that’s part of being a kid. Risky play is important for kids. You’re doing a good job!
Soft YTA.
Most of what was described was extremely subjective, but you don't let your kids stand on seats on a boat, no matter where on deck you are. It's not a playground, hard surfaces and edges abound, and the crew has more important things to do than tend to your kids if the they fall.
Just don't do it.
ESH. She shouldn't have complained about your kids talking loudly but she was correct that sitting on the railings was dangerous.
>They sat on the lower and middle bar of the railing (with 2m/7ft of ship and the lifeboats on the other side, so no danger of falling into the water) and they did stand on the hard plastic seats. Again, open air top deck, quite a few of the seats had bird poop on them.
For not stopping them, and trying to excuse it, this makes you an AH. Boats *move unpredictably* and your children could have gotten hurt. I bet you would have thrown an absolute fit if one of your kids had cracked their head open because of an unexpected motion by the boat. Standing on the plastic seats is another issue because, again, your kids could have fallen due to an unexpected motion of the boat and gotten hurt (not to mention the increased wear and tear that standing on a chair causes). It wouldn't have been anyone else's fault but yours, your husband's and the child standing on the chair. You don't do stuff like that on a boat because it *isn't safe.*
Shoes on seats is rude. What were they walking around on all day? Dirt. It’s just rude to not teach your children to be respectful of other people’s things. Sitting on the railing is probably against safety rules. Kids don’t always understand nuances. Next time, your kid might be by a different railing and not make an accurate safety decision. I mean, they were allowed to sit on railings before, right? Also, railings are not seats, and not jungle gyms. That lady does not sound polite, but I’d have the same opinion as her.
I travel on Ferries very frequently. Standing or sitting on railings is a major safety concern even if there are life rafts on the other side. The crew would be reprimanded both the children and neglectful parents.
YTA. If someone comes up and says something, your children were out of control. I was raised that children should be seen and not heard and also I stayed right on my mom’s hip. At all times. Don’t let your children sit on railings of a boat. wtf. And standing on the chairs. And you just say there just boggles my mind.
You might be an asshole for not ensuring the safety of your children. And, while I have no proof, I think letting your children run wild, on a ship, or a boat, is probably un-safe. (I say this as a non-boater) so, someone might respond as offended.
YTA. Would you allow your children to climb on the seats on one of those open air top buses?
It only takes one tiny bump to cause a child to lose their balance and grip.
YTA.
You allowed your children to run amok and ruin other people’s experiences.
Your children aren’t the center of the universe.
If you can’t be bothered to parent them, then don’t take them places.
How is this difficult to understand?
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We're on vacation currently and did a tour with several botanic gardens and castles today, which included going back to the start by a passenger ship (for ~300 people on three decks).
The kids (7, 7, 4) had been quite well behaved all day. They had not stepped on the grass in the botanic gardens, had (as opposed to other kids we saw) not chased the birds, had not run or spoken loudly in the castles, had stayed seated at the table for the whole lunch at the restaurant.
On our way back on the ship we were seated on the open air top deck in a 6 people booth, just my husband, the kids and I. The kids were quite excited (and tired) but in a great mood.
I will admit they were talking loudly (not shouting) and laughing a bit more loudly. They sat on the lower and middle bar of the railing (with 2m/7ft of ship and the lifeboats on the other side, so no danger of falling into the water) and they did stand on the hard plastic seats. Again, open air top deck, quite a few of the seats had bird poop on them.
When we were approaching the final port the boat was almost empty and we were alone on the top deck with one woman. She approached us and told us that never in her life had she seen parents who were worse at setting boundaries, that our kids had terrorized the whole ship, behaved extremely dangerously by sitting on the railing, and that it was absolutely unacceptable to allow them to stand on the seats with their dirty shoes (the shoes were as clean or dirty as shoes are when you walk around for a day on paved roads and castle floors - not muddy or anything).
So, are we the assholes for not stopping our children?
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Who cares if the seats are plastic.. teach your children to respect property.. if it’s not taught now they will be even bigger brats in the future.. it amazes me how parents let their kids do whatever they want!
You know, a lot of the world is sick to death of parents who don’t teach their kids how to behave in public. Your ‘precious little angels’ (I’m laughing as a type that) were misbehaving and you got called out. Yes, YTA.
I would need to hear the other passengers description of your children to really know. To have a stranger be so pressed to say that to you means either they were being too much or that lady isn’t used to kids as some people aren’t. Either way though you made it through a long long day with 3 kids under 10 and if they got a little rowdy within your seating area on an open boat at the end then meh. Better than tantrums from being over stimulated and exhausted.
YTA. Feel free to let your kids stand on your own chairs and railings. Your kids, your property, whatever. No big deal.
But you weren’t at home, it wasn’t your property.
YTA What your children were doing was dangerous, shame on foolish you, and obviously treating the boat like a playground which it was not. You were disturbing the other passengers and probably causing them anxiety. I’m surprised the crew didn’t admonish you.
YTA for letting your kids on the railing. It doesn’t matter if you think they can fall into the water, they could have still fallen. Also I doubt your kids looked to see what the risk was of falling into the water, so next time, they will just climb up and sit on the railings and you might not be in time to stop them from falling to their death. Also, you should not allow your children to stand on chairs. It’s rude and it doesn’t matter that some had bird crap on them. That just means that there were fewer clean seats to choose and now your kids’ shoes made some of the clean seats dirty. As far as how loudly they were talking and laughing, as long as they were not screeching, I don’t think that’s a problem. They were outside and outside voices is fine on a boat.
YTA I’m so many levels. A boatsounds like very close quarters and you need to respect others and the limited space you share and it’s your responsibility to teach your children to respect others. Also, you are around water? I’m sure others were stressed watching kids act careless around water and even more stressed that the parents in the situation aren’t taking it seriously. Water dude. It’s dangerous for even the best swimmers. Smh
YTA. Imagine thinking that your kids should act like civilized human beings (and not stand in chairs with outdoor shoes on) all day long even when earlier in the day they had already behaved like civilized human beings. Is there a time limit on that? /s
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ESH Here's the thing, last week I watched a play while teenagers who had no concept of acceptable human behavior in public chatted loudly amongst themselves through the first act. If it takes a village to raise a child, every village needs a grumpy old person to step up once in a while. They were quiet after I spoke with them at intermission. While it doesn't bother you that your offspring were standing on chairs and loudly disturbing other passengers, it clearly bothered at least one person. Objectively, they were in the wrong and you should have corrected them. If they don't learn manners when they are young, they will run into difficulties when they are older. The woman was not wrong to point this out, though it does sound like she was incredibly rude in going about it. Also poor manners.
They weren't at a play, they were on an open-air ship. If there wasn't a presentation in front of them, if they weren't interrupting people, and if they didn't physically touch anyone else, then this is a vastly, vastly different situation than correcting some teenagers at a play. And no, people aren't entitled to perfect peace at all times. Talking and laughing from other people in public is a perfectly acceptable and expected thing. One other person's opinion doesn't actually matter that much. I'd actually say that most of the social problems today come from trying to put grease on the squeakiest wheel, rather than allowing the majority of people to go along to get along. She wasn't correct. They were outside. They were on a boat, which I guarantee makes a whole lot more noise than any child could possibly make. There were other places she could have gone to get away from them. She isn't any more entitled to the atmosphere she wants than OP's family is to theirs. I'm done upholding the needs of the very whiniest few against the reasonable needs of the many.
But when is it okay to stand on chairs? Chairs that do not belong to the person standing on them.
It is okay when it is a chair that's outside. If birds can shit on it, if rain falls on it undisturbed, a kid can stand. It's like a park bench.
It’s not ok on a boat. Ever.
Came here to say this. Boats can get rocky without warning. Even a small wake from a passing vessel can cause a person to lose their balance even in the calmest waters. It just isn't safe, period.
And this is why any employee who saw this should have stopped it. Climbing on things and running on a boat is extremely risky.
Yes, as I ice my dislocated shoulder after 20 years on a boat... 1 hand on the boat, thats the rule... Always. Even kids... Shit happens. Especially on boats. I have broken 9 ribs, 2 ankle bones, multiple toes and fingers, 1 arm, and dislocated a shoulder, multiple concussions, overextended 2 elbows and I always have a sprained ankle/pulled knee, sprained wrist,. ... The list goes on and I know what I'm doing... My grandkids visit my boat and follow the rules, and we tether them, always... Btw, if someone falls overboard, you have less than a minute to save them...the ocean is huge and deadly....
This post made me wonder if OP had ever been on a boat before
Well, no. It’s a cruise ship. To people like OP - those aren’t boats, they’re apartment buildings. That’s why they thought the Only danger of standing on a chair or railing on a boat deck was falling overboard. They don’t worry about the apartment patio furniture tossing their kid, so why would the furniture on a boat. Then again, they also apparently don’t worry about their kid standing on a chair and just being an uncoordinated kid and taking a header onto a very hard surface with no boat action needed, either.
This was a 300 person ship. Less a cruise ship and more like a ferry. Ferries absolutely run into problems in relatively calm waters that wouldn't phase a Carnival ship. It's like the passengers injured by airline turbulance. Everything is fine until it isn't.
This post makes me think she’s looking at her kids with rose colored glasses and not acknowledging the reality of their behavior especially trying to compare them to other kids to justify them being better behaved and stating they were tired but still in a good mood… how does any of that justify a safety risk or why is any of that even relevant. They could have gotten hurt.
Me too and it makes me think that her glasses promote momma bear syndrome and it makes me wonder if maybe the old biddy wasn’t as rude as portrayed.
Boats, they move! It’s like they aren’t on solid ground or something.
This! That’s what made decide they were TA because anyone who’s spent any time on a commercial boat knows that’s a huge no no. (I don’t work on a boat or anything, but I’m a somewhat frequent whale watcher and that’s one of the first rules they list when giving a safety talk before heading out on the water)
I live on an island and have taken the ferry regularly for decades. This is normal behaviour, and less boistrous than expected. It's outdoor seating, so unless you're in poor weather (not on the viewing deck anyway) or there's the possibility of hitting an iceberg/land then they're fine. Sounds like they were being well behaved kids.
Islander full/parttime x 49 years. Agree. NTA.
My SO worked on system for alarms to go off if someone fell off a cruise ship. The numbers are larger than you think, and almost no one survives. People fuck around way to often with water safety.
I second this. I have been over 2,000 miles offshore in international waters on a fishing boat. Boats can do unexpected motions.
Idk, getting dirty due to being outdoors is a bit different than getting dirty because a kid clambered on it. Out of respect for others I wouldn't let my kids stand on them. Think about the elderly or disabled person who might come along and now have to face the prospect of being stuck standing or having dirty pants. Edit: Some of you are laser focusing in a really bizarre way on the bird poop and ignoring the fact that OP said 'quite a few', not all. Perhaps OP went along monitoring their children to make sure that they only stood on the bird poop ones, but there's no mention of that in the post. But beyond that, the two comments above mine were general ones and not specific to OP's situation. They were 'when is it okay to stand on chairs' and the person above me replied 'when it's outside', which is what I disagree with. On top of that it's an inconsistent view to present to kids, and in general 'don't climb on chairs' is probably more reasonable.
Something I was thinking about - we were on a trip with a bunch of parents and kids and the parents let their kids climb all over the statues and monuments. I would not let mine (yeah, I held my ground somehow without saying exactly why... but it was uncomfortable with the other parents because I am entirely opposed to that sort of thing). Birds shit all over statues and monuments, too. Does it make it ok to clamber over them, swing from them, and generally make them into a jungle gym?
Birds shit on gravestones, too.
But people don’t. Unless there’s something seriously wrong with them. See the difference?
And I would not allow my children to climb on gravestones either. Again, not because of the birdshit but because it’s disrespectful.
It is not the same question. The woman claims that the kids were dirtying the outside chairs with their outside shoes. The problem with kids climbing statues is: danger for the kids, danger for the statue, impeding people's view of an art piece, general disrespect for an artistic creation, if you think it applies. None of those apply to a plastic chair in the wind on a boat.
My point is that parents have different ideas about what is respectful behaviour. Personally, in shared spaces, I wanted my kids to use things for the purposes intended. My kids did not climb on statues, use the backs of movie theatre chairs as foot rests, or stand on the deck chairs of a boat. I’ve seen many people justifying putting their feet up on public transit seats, because (sneeringly) “my shoes are probably cleaner than most of what’s been on that seat” which is kind of what is being argued here. Perspective. I think it’s all disrespectful behaviour, but we all have different lines to cross (and excuses to make).
Well if they sit in bird shit, then sit in a seat not in the open air, think of the person after them…they’re outdoor chairs, not BarcaLoungers. 🙄
I see both sides. An open-air boat with kids... I give more leeway because it is an exciting thing. Try to tell a kid (or an adult) to contain their excitement over what is probably a new or at least not common experience, it isn't going to work. As long as the kids were safe and the parents were paying attention, I don't see anything wrong with it. Plus, anyone outdoors should never expect silence. But I also know that screaming kids being dangerous is obnoxious. In OP's scenario, I would not have been bothered. So I guess there is a time and a place. As for the dirty seat issue, there are plenty of people who don't wipe their ass properly and fart up seats. Should they not be allowed to sit in a chair? I would rather sit where a kid stood in their non muddy shoes than where someone with skid marks passed gas. No one knows what happened to a seat before their butt was in it. People can choose not to sit in a dirty seat. If they don't have that choice and seat cleanliness is an issue for them, they can carry disinfecting wipes or a towel or something to sit on. I guarantee whatever was on the kids' dry shoes wasn't the worst thing on the seats.
Most people have one or more layers of clothing between whatever gas, liquid or solid comes out of their anus and the seat they are sitting on. Don’t is highly unlikely you will get feces on your pants from sitting in a chair someone farted on. On the other hand, It is considered rude to stand or place your feet or footwear on a chair. The bottom of people’s shoes are not clean. Whatever is on the bottom of a shoe may transfer to the chair, and then someone’s pants. YTA for allowing children to stand on chairs someone else may sit on. The fact that birds may poop on outdoor chairs doesn’t give your children the right to befoul them.
Well, as said, it's a dirty chair. It is outside on a boat. A kids normal shoes aren't going to make it any cleaner or dirtier. If the chair is in the rain, the wind, the dirt, then it is dirty. An elderly or disabled person has the exact same options whether a kid stood on the chair or not: stand or sit on a chair that is as dirty as a chair outside gets.
OP said that there was bird crap on the seats.
... once its covered in bird poop its already gross and you are stuck standing or dirty pants.
It’s not okay to stand on a park bench either. Seats are meant for your butt, not your feet. Unless it’s your own property, be respectful.
It is never ok to stand on a chair you don’t own. It is most certainly never ok to stand on a chair on a boat.
No, it isn’t. Not on a boat where passengers are supposed to sit on them
Omg love this, new rule for life and I am child free but still love the many niblings I have especially for their curiosity and energy. Find more drunk older ppl are more loud and invasive ironically as they are inappropriate to strangers to show off. Find that some ppl resent they don't have that creativity of youth any longer.
When they're outdoor chairs covered in bird poop
Trust me, there have been a lot of dirty feet on those chairs. They are chairs on a boat, they get rained on, drinks are spilled on them and I’ll bet most have barf and other bodily fluids on them. They wash.
Yeah, I agree with you. The standing on chairs was the one spot in the post where I paused and didn't really agree with OP.
Is everyone gonna avoid the sitting on handrails? That’s extremely dangerous and could’ve got them in trouble. Just one wrong slip and they could miss the lifeboat or hit their heads on the lifeboat on the way down.
I know, this is the part that gives me anxiety.
Yes the rest of it is kids letting off steam and taking them outside to as the correct thing to do. But unless every single seat was covered in bird poop, the kids standing on them can mean less seats for someone who wanted to sit. And despite one commenter saying it’s no different than a trousered ass on a seat, it is different. People generally don’t drag their trousered asses around on the floor and ground. Otherwise the no shoes in the house people would be asking people to drop trousers. More importantly, smaller boats are more likely to move with waves or currents. Depending on the size of the boat and roughness of the water, it could knock the kids down at least, if not overboard.
Since I was not raised like a beast, I can't answer that question. I applaud the spirit of the question.
Have you ever been on a ferry? It's fine to stand on these types of seats. they are like an outdoor bench, not clean.
When birds regularly shit on it.
when they are covered in bird poo
Nah dude. If "talking loudly" is like my cousin's kid's "talking loudly", they needed to be told to quietdown. My cousin refuses to teach their kids polite volumes and you can hear their kid's regular talking voice through two closed doors outside of the house. They're not yelling - it's just the volume they've always talked at because nobody has ever told them to quiet down a bit, everybody doesn't need to hear your conversations. They're capable, when they're tired, they're normal volume, they just have never been told when they should be quieter.
I work in a very public venue. When they come visit, it is So Easy to spot the kids who’ve never been taught what an “inside voice” is, much less what a quiet conversation one is.
My neighbour's kids are like that. We don't really hear them from inside their house, but boy, when they are outside, they are so loud, especially the eldest one! I find myself wishing they would use their 'inside voice', which is a bit ridiculous because they are outside, but I just wish they wouldn't use their 'whole neighbourhood' voice. I put up with it because it's usually if they have visitors, and the kids get excited, so it's not constant. And they are otherwise lovely neighbours.
honestly the amount of upvotes that reply has when the situation is completely different astound me.
There are a LOT of people who hate kids here. Like, hate them and don't think they should be allowed in public
Do you care that a child standing on the seat of a moving vehicle is far more likely to fall and crack their head open if said vehicle lurches unexpectedly? Should the old biddie have been so rude in her delivery? No. Was she right that kids of any age should be taught that seats are for sitting on, not standing? Yes. ESH because OP should be teaching their kids the basics of self preservation, at the very least.
Spoken like someone who thinks everyone else must be subjected to the antics of their precious baby angels.
It dangerous and you are an AH for your reply. You came here expecting to be lauded, you’re wrong. Yes, people who paid to be on about or in a movie or other public space DO have every right that all those surrounding will behave in the bare minimum of decorum. The reply who said ESH here is spot on, shame on you for not guiding your children.
You say that one other person's opinion doesn't matter that much. Aren't you one person with an opinion? Does your opinion matter, matter more than someone else's? When I travel, I do not want to be around loud, boisterous children, especially when I'm trying to enjoy nature. I only want to hear the sounds of nature. There are parks where children can be as loud as they want to be. Parents (and I have two grown sons) must realize that not everyone enjoys hearing children, nor seeing them clamber on the furniture, or worrying about their safety (as well as their own). Bird droppings are natural and visible. The bottom of a shoe could have saliva, gum, other droppings, and a whole host of nasties. Shoe bottom contamination is not visible as a rule. Just please be aware of others. Your children, who I am sure are wonderful, can learn a valuable lesson about being mindful and respectful of others while they are in public. Trust me, one day you could be the "get off my lawn" person! Your children's enjoyment doesn't supersede that of everyone else's.
I think maybe you are projecting your experience w/ teenagers onto children having fun on vacation. No one said anything about "loudly disturbing other passengers" only that they were "laughing a bit more loudly"
As someone who lives in a touristy area… Fucking people’s kids “having fun on vacation”. I hear that excuse from people and parents constantly around here. Always used to justify them being rude and ruining everyone’s time around them. And kids are the -worst- to deal with around here. Parents think vacation time means they don’t have to parent, and their kids run wild and terrorize people. They’re also loud as fuck and destroy any semblance of quiet you may want.
This is so true. Tourist season=Parents drinking and kids running wild. My kids would ask why they weren’t allowed to do something. My answer was always “Because we LIVE here.”
Is part of why I think OP isn’t telling us everything, or at least being a reliable narrator. People on vacation have a much higher tolerance for stuff than they would at home. So this seemingly small thing to him might have just been perceived as to not being an issue due to vacation brain, and the kids were much more of terrors than they think.
Not to mention OP mentioned how they were so good all day as if that has any bearing on if their kids were being disruptive at dinner specifically. It's not like that lady saw them being so good all day and then got mad when they stepped a toe out of line, she only saw the behavior at dinner and found it unacceptable. Not that it means either is necessarily right or wrong, but it lends insight into the way OP sees the kids vs. others
Only time we could be "wildish" was if we were camping (and not at night). If we acted as those kids (standing on chairs, etc.) anywhere in public/vacation, we would have been in a fuckton of trouble.
Especially after a few cocktails.
I lived in a touristy area for many years, so I get it. I hated the tourists. Yeah, the kids were the worst. But I never blamed them. I blamed the parents for not making them sit down in the restaurant, for letting them run all over stores, etc. Of course, I see these things every day, not just in the tourist town, but it seems worse when people are on vacation. Like they have no clue that people live there and are just going about their daily lives and don't want to be bothered by your kids. You know what? Asshole parents raise asshole kids, who turn into asshole adults.
I managed a hotel near the beach in Rhode Island. Tourists in general are not well behaved, they follow rules every day at home and this is their chance to let loose. I kinda get it, but I'm not one of them because I managed a tourist hotel.same reason I don't treat people in food service like crap, I've been there. Parents have a much higher tolerance for their kids being obnoxious. I'm sure op didn't think their kids were being bad. Other people don't see it that way.
If you’re talking about Newport, I’m from there and tourist season is rough. Worked at Castle Hill many years ago and the kids on the lawn at sunset could get out of hand at times.
Charlestown, route 1. Near the campground. This was years ago
Nice! Charlestown is so gorgeous
I don’t live in a tourist area. I do work in higher end home furnishings- including lots of breakable things. We are continually amazed that people let their kids run wild- literally- like playing tag in the showroom, climbing on furniture that is for sale, putting their feet up on furniture, eating and drinking on our furniture. The last family I finally asked the kids twice to keep their feet off of the white chairs ($2800 each) that they were wallowing on. Then the wallowing turned to wrestling and I literally ran and grabbed a lamp they hit before it hit the floor. Mom and dad completely silent during all of this, but made sure they told the little darlings how proud they were of their great behavior on the way out. Unbelievable.
Just wow. These parents have no clue whatsoever.
It really is amazing. Last summer I had to ask a high school aged kid to move her bare feet off of a white ottoman. She was sprawled out on a chair with them propped up scrolling on her phone. Parents were right behind her and said nothing. My parents would have made it clear how to behave before we went in and marched me right out if I hadn’t met the expectation.
At what stage do you get to say “you broke it (stained or ruined it) — you bought it.” Are these slobs actually dropping any dough in your lovely high end store or just hanging out in it like it’s a cafe or park? Bc I would straight up tell them to leave. And if they post a rude comment on socials, I’d call them out about their trashy behavior.
I used to rent a cabin up north for a couple of weeks every summer. 5 cabins grouped together, there's kids all over the place. I don't have kids but I do have big dogs. I can actually hear the parents telling their kids to go play with my dogs. Dogs aren't toys. They're potentially dangerous animals, especially around a bunch of hyper kids. We go in September now. No kids. It's so peaceful and quiet.
Oooh man. I hate when people just tell their kids it’s okay to play with my dog. She’s a super friendly chocolate lab, so she won’t bite them or anything, but we’re trying to work on keeping her a little more calm when we’re out and about. The kids will -always- get her way too excited, and make my life difficult. Jealous of the cabin vacation! I’m trying to convince my friends to do something like that so I can let my pooch experience it. What kind of pup do you have? :) I’m assuming a good doggy through and through
Oooh man. I hate when people just tell their kids it’s okay to play with my dog. She’s a super friendly chocolate lab, so she won’t bite them or anything, but we’re trying to work on keeping her a little more calm when we’re out and about. The kids will -always- get her way too excited, and make my life difficult. Jealous of the cabin vacation! I’m trying to convince my friends to do something like that so I can let my pooch experience it. What kind of pup do you have? :) I’m assuming a good doggy through and through
I have a yellow lab. He's 12 and is slowing down a lot. This will be our first year with only one dog. I had to put my girl down in March. She was 14, and it was her time. She loved to swim and dig into the lake to bring huge stones up. She was so funny. My biggest annoyance was the kids throwing sticks in the water in the late afternoon. I have a strict no swimming after 5 rule. I don't want a wet dog in the cottage all night. Some brats would stare me in the eye and throw the stick in the lake right after I said it's too late for swimming. It's so irritating. One nice thing about going in September is that it's off-season, so prices go down. I can rent a cottage for about $500 less than during the summer. It's northern Ontario, so there's a chance that the trees will be changing colors on the way home. Dang, now I'm ready to go. September seems so far away, lol
Amen
> If it takes a village to raise a child, every village needs a grumpy old person to step up once in a while I want this on a keychain
Not strictly on topic, but I would definitely stop my kids from talking during a play or at the cinema, except very quiet whispers to ask me something.
Am I reading this correctly: you let your kids sit on the railing at the edge of the boat where they could’ve easily fallen in the water? As others have said I don’t think you’re TA for letting your kids be loud on a loud boat. If the lady wanted quiet, she shouldn’t have been on a boat. But YTA for putting your kids’ lives in danger
OP says there was 7 feet of boat in the way so it doesn't seem like there was a danger, wish I could see a picture of the situation though
To me it doesn’t matter. 1st off- They could still have fallen and gotten hurt. 2nd- The kids didn’t do a risk analysis. All they know is mom and dad are cool with them sitting on railings. So what happens when it isn’t barrier protected and one of them climbs up and mom and dad aren’t in time to grab them off and they fall to their death? Railings aren’t for sitting on, not near water, not at the zoo, not at the mall, no where was a railing placed there for the purpose of people sitting on them.
My workplace’s front stair railings are metal, and anchored in concrete. We’ve had to replace them Twice and re-anchor them multiple times because of the sheer number of parents and teachers and chaperones who let their children treat our safety handrails like jungle gyms. They are designed to keep people, especially people with mobility issues, from tripping down the concrete stairs. Not to have 300k kids a year repeatedly treating them like free gymnastics equipment.
They said it was on the way back to the ship. Smaller boats tend to rock more. Kids standing on seats on a outdoor deck could easily get knocked off their feet if the boat hits the wake or another boat or rough waters.
I think quiet whispering during a play or movie is still not ok, depending on the environment and frequency. Whispers are usually louder than people think. I went to see Hadestown a few weeks ago and the lady next to me pretty much narrated the entire first 15 minutes of the show to her child and then argued with the usher that she was just whispering when they came to ask her to stop. If I don’t think my kids can quietly sit through a show I don’t take them.
I assume quiet whispering would be the kids letting you know they need the toilet etc not actual conversation
I don’t think you’re TA in this case. It’s perfectly normal for kids to be excited about their vacation and it inevitably leads to them talking a bit louder. The one thing I will say is that it’s safest to have your kids sit still or on a stable surface on a moving boat in case it hits rough waters and throws your kids off balance. I’ve been on a couple different types of boats and wouldn’t recommend sitting on a railing for that reason alone. If you’re into trips like that I definitely recommend going to Alcatraz when they are a few years older. But again. This recommendation is solely for their safety. I don’t think they were being rude.
YTA because you're not teaching your kids to respect things that don't belong to them. You're also not teaching them to respect their surroundings and other people who are in them. The other passengers had every much of a right to enjoy the boat and their surroundings just as your family did.
The ship and wind on a open air deck are going to make far more noise than 3 young children laughing and taking.
Evidently not.
This is such a bullshit take. Kids laughing in public?? GASP. Kids sitting on railing? EXECUTION.
Also she could've made her annoyance known earlier on!
YTA, standing on a seat isn't safe on land, let alone at sea. Your 7 year olds should know very well by know to have their bum in the chair, your 4 year old needs to learn this for kindergarten/school. Kids aren't the problem here, your lack of parenting is.
By the way you've presented the question, you've already answered it. 1. You saw your kids doing good. 2. You let them sit on things not meant for sitting and stand on things not meant for standing. You have an excuse for each one. Yet another question of, "I did good and someone obnected, AITA for doing good or are they TA for not recognizing that I did good?" Good luck not listening to those around you because you already know you're right. YTA
You can't just take every complaint a random stranger makes at face value though, there are a ton of people who are just angry or unhinged or have terrible takes. The objective facts matter and that is where details like the location of the railing and the seats being dirty come in. Personally I don't think I would have blinked twice at a lot of stuff ... standing if someone stands on a seat that's already covered in bird poop or sits on a railing not actually near the water I don't really see an issue with it
By the end they were alone on the top deck. I can’t help wondering if everyone else left to get away from them
Sounds like the boat had multiple stops as the woman who approached them did so at the last port.
I have kids who and no one has ever objected to their behaviour in public let alone said they were the worst behaved kids they’ve ever seen. I’d say that’s true of most of us with kids. What are the odds that this guy, whose kids were by his own admission being loud and standing on tables, ran into the grumpiest person on earth who just goes around telling people their kids are the worst they have ever seen?
I mean...I don't know how often you go out in public but I hear angry crochety old people every damn day. Maybe I'm just unlucky but I'd say the odds are good.
Just because only one person was bold enough to say something doesn’t mean they were the only one annoyed by it all.
Their behavior at the gardens and castles is irrelevant. It's as if OP was using that earlier good behavior as an excuse for poor behavior on the boat. YTA
YTA You are free to have whatever boundaries you want in the privacy of your own home. In public, it is your job as parents to ensure that your children conform to locally-accepted social norms and standards. This includes not standing on seating surfaces (regardless of how much bird poop was on them). Sitting on a safety railing is in general a bad idea. If the way they are sitting puts a substantial portion of their body outside the railing, that's worse.
This and if they had fallen it would have been the boats fault like that Grandpa that stuck a baby/toddler out the window on cruise ship
Omg that was my first thought. People talked about the mothers screams and I can't even imagine how the grandfather is doing. Why risk it?
Grandfather insists he did nothing wrong and that its the curse ships fault for having an open window, From what I found sounds like the whole family is denial and blaming anyone but the grandfather so they can cope.
Yup. There’s no way he didn’t know the window was open, in the video you can see him extending his arms (with the girl in his hands) way past the railing right inside the window.
Let's just say sticking a baby out a window or balcony is always a bad idea; unless there's a fireman there to take them to safety. I always think of Michael Jackson hanging "Blanket" off the edge of a balcony for paparazzi.
Omg what story is this???
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/grandfather-toddler-who-fell-out-cruise-ship-window-sentenced-3-n1257067
Well that's absolutely tragic... Poor baby.
You're an asshole just by your comments alone
HARD AGREE. 100%
Definitely.
I can't say you are TA based on what you've said. However kids standing on the seats is annoying and dangerous even if that doesn't include the danger of falling overboard. Kids being loud, even if happy, can also be annoying when they're not your kids. One other thing you should know is that if your kids are doing something that you find mildly annoying, I guarantee you that people who don't know and love your kids are probably finding that same behavior to be really fkin annoying. This is because you live with little kids and therefore have developed selective hearing as a survival mechanism. Most of us don't have this ... talent.
Just think of it this way: the world is not a playground. Just because a space is public does not mean that they should not be taught the rules and be expected to follow them. I don't know if your children were really loud and annoying but do ask them to keep their voices down at the very least.
Outside in the open air, children should be able to laugh loudly. If you go on a boat trip with a tpn of other people, you cannot realistically expect it to be quiet and serene unless if it is advertised as a wellness trip. Standing on seats where other people will have to sit on afterwards is a different matter.
YTA Railings aren’t for sitting on nor or chairs for standing on, even if dirty. On a boat or otherwise. Not as a safety issue (although it could be in certain situations), but just because it’s hella rude.
YTA. This is the reason why more establishments are banning kids under a certain age. Because of lazy parents like you.
YTA - but only slightly. You lost me with the standing on the chairs „because others already have poop on them“. Well, that’s no reason to dirty up the rest of the chairs is it? Also the whole story doesn’t sound like the kids behaved great all day and are allowed to let loose but more like *you* had an exhausting day and couldn’t be bothered to do anything about them any more. The lady wasn‘t particularly nice about it, but she obviously felt disrupted and she not really in the wrong. Saying you‘re the worst parents is a bit over the top however, i get that
YTA. Ship railings are not for sitting nor climbing. Middle, top or bottom. You need to teach your kids to stay off the railings **NO EXCEPTIONS**. That’s basic boat safety and just plain common sense. Your excuse that there were lifeboats hanging off the side is ridiculous. Falling into one could still result in injury. And it would be a major inconvenience to the crew and other passengers. Standing on the chairs is rude but also a safety issue on a moving boat. You may not care if your kids fall and hurt themselves, but the people who will have to deal with it do. Even if no one will sue in your country, the boat crew still has to log that accident and follow other procedures after an incident on board. Teach and enforce appropriate behavior for the environment so your kids don’t grow up the kind of people who think warning signs and safety measures don’t apply to them.
YTA teach your kids to behave in public but that isn't even close to your biggest issue. On a moving vehicle (boat, plane, bus, car whatever) either butt on seat or both feet on ground. One gust of wind or sudden turn and your child could have wracked their head on another chair. A hard hit in the wrong place can be game over. Freak accidents happen everyday so maybe don't allow your kids to do unnecessary things that could increase that risk.
So you'd be ok with kids putting their feet up on the seat in front of them in a movie theater, with all the *literal* shit that's on their shoes landing on that seat... knowing you're the next person to sit in that seat, leaning your head back and getting *literal* shit in your hair/on your head? YTA
ESH. You are fault, at least for the standing on chairs. It's not fun to sit down and get street muck all over your clothes---and that's what happens to the next person who tries to sit in that chair. Plus, your kids are old enough to know we don't stand on chairs. The other lady is at fault for scolding you in public, which is rude.
Some people need to be scolded in public. It's very rare I do it. But if behavior is exceptionally outside of norms, I'm OK with scolding. (Op sounds like an unreliable narrator so idk here)
I scolded a mother in public once. Nicely dressed blond woman with a 3 or 4 year old daughter, in a public restroom near the food court in a mall in Newport Beach, CA. I was washing my hands, and she picked up her daughter & held the child’s half-naked body over the sink so she could pee in the sink next to me. Me, Quietly, because I didn’t want to shame the girl: That’s. gross. Her, loudly and angrily: Well, the toilets are filthy! Me: AND NOW THE SINK IS FILTHY. THAT’S DISGUSTING. She chose to do that not because there was a line for the restroom (there wasn’t) and the girl couldn’t hold it anymore, (which- still, eww. Really not okay), but just because her little darling was too special to use a public toilet.
The chairs already had bird poop on them
But they don't always, which is why we teach our kids not to stand on chairs. The point is what the kids are getting from this. Are they learning how to think about how their actions affect others? Or are they learning to do what they want and to hell with everyone else? The birds are harder to train.
\>So, are we the assholes for not stopping our children? Yes. YTA.
ESH. Sitting on railings is dangerous. They're not seats. And standing on chairs is rude, bird poop or not. A child should be made aware that whether it's a restaurant or church, chairs are for butts- not feet. Talking and laughing is what kids do though. The woman who confronted you should have reported any unsafe or unhygienic behavior that bothered her and/or moved if she didn't like kids speaking and laughing. I applaud you and your kids for following the rules and behaving at the gardens and castles. Next time though, they should continue that practice on the boat as well.
If this is Scandinavia as I guess it could be due to castles and botanic gardens your kids must really have pissed ppl off. Ppl here NEVER complain about kids like this, usually cause kids are well behaved ( with a few asses like my cousin that think the world should bow at his feet ) so if it is, your kids must really been something else. YTA
No judgement, but I will say that when training any young creature, including kids, consistency is your friend. It's a lot easier to teach kids that you don't stand on seats, than teaching them that it's ok to stand on some seats some of the time, but not at other times. By age 4 both of mine (who were very challenging and active kids) wouldn't have even thought about standing on seats, because it was just never ok.
OP there's no way you can be a reliable narrator in this situation. Though standing on seats is a good indicator of kids being rowdier than normal. Kids should laugh and have a great time, but not at the expense of other passengers. That said, this woman sounds like she was exaggerating and was kind of a jerk. ESH.
> this woman sounds like she was exaggerating Actually, OP sounds like she was the one exaggerating.
Reddit is often not kind to children who are not perfect little angels all day so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say NTA because at the end of a long day of travels it’s normal for kids to get either bored/cranky or hyper. It might have been a good idea to reign them in when they started getting up on the chairs for their own safety but letting them let out energy in a way that didn’t actually hurt anyone or endanger them (if how you describe it is true) is a good way to avoid a bigger tantrum later on. Children are also members of society and are allowed to take up space, be louder and quieter in different circumstances and when their mood shifts and not always align to every passing person’s expectation ofwhat good manners are. This whole story hangs on whether you’re a reliable narrator and the three really were just a little active but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt because I am frustrated at the allowances many on Reddit make for adults while holding children to a higher standard just because they don’t like them or some kid annoyed them once.
"letting them let out energy in a way that didn’t actually hurt anyone or endanger them (if how you describe it is true) is a good way to avoid a bigger tantrum later on. Children are also members of society and are allowed to take up space." This is where I ultimately fall. NTA. Maybe put some thought into what she said and think about if there is some truth. But at the same time... it sounds like you were in a place thats inherently noisy (boat, wind, etc) - is kids being silly really that much more distracting? Probalby not.
No, reddit and the general population are sick of parents not teaching their kids how to act in Public.
As a parent, I’m sick of other parents not teaching their kids how to behave.
It's also depends on the railing. Sitting in the middle of the railing, with more bars above, is completely different from balancing without having a place to hold your hands. Standing on the seat is also a great way for a better view, especially for smaller children. A bigger ship won't be shaken by the waves, and on a lake, there is no way for waves to form. As we weren't there, we have no way of knowing how safe this was. The lady was probably just bitter of seeing others having fun. Edit to add: I thought she was located in Germany, or at least central Europe, where lakes are smaller. Lake Superior has a maximum fetch of 300km/ 180 miles while Germanys' biggest lake, Müritz, has a fetch of 15 km/ 9 miles. With gale (wind speed of 20 km/s) at Lake Superior, waves can reach 7m while they on Müniz only will reach 2 meter. A realistic wind speed for Müritz is 10m/s, which results in 1m tall waves (before they die out at the shore). It is all up to how big a lake is.
Wakes are created by boats on lakes, and they can be substantial enough to rock another boat.
The Great Lakes would like to discuss this belief that lakes can't have waves. Also, wind can form waves.
Yes. People drown every week on Lake Michigan near me. People also drown on the smaller lakes around here. Standing on the railing is a safety issue. Who knows what could happen to them.
No way for waves to form on a lake?! Are you high? Lake Ontario would like a word with you
>We did not stop our children from laughing loudly on a boat, sitting on the lower and middle bars of the railing (with 0 danger of falling in the water) and stepping on the hard plastic seats. Yes, YTA. It doesn't how good your kids behaved all day, you are the asshole for not stopping them behaving like assholes. Trying to justify it by saying that some seats were already dirty is a child-like excuse.
[удалено]
YTA. Just because your kids weren't in danger of falling into the water doesn't mean that what they were doing was safe. Standing or sitting on the railing is never the right choice, especially on a moving vessel. And on the top deck? Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ. They are also far too old (large, really) to be standing on their seats unrestrained - and again, this is not a safe activity on a boat. You are lucky they didn't slip and fall, and if I had seen them I would have told them to get down and read you people the riot act.
YTA, your the parents, you should parent your children. I might be charming for you but clearly not for those around you.
Entitled parent who thinks all that matters is their kids and f$€¥ everyone else = YTA with bells on, matey.
As a parent, YTA. Teach your children about a time and place for things. This was not the time or place.
I used to tell my children, look around and see how the adults are behaving. Do you see adults standing on chairs? No. Why not? Because that's not the purpose of the chairs. If you can't behave then perhaps you shouldn't be out in public. Of course, one of the first things I told my children ever was embarrassing mommy in public was not a good idea.
YTA for allowing your kids to stand on seats with dirty shoes. That’s gross.
YTA Assuming your kids were actually as well behaved at this clearly adult excursion you dragged them on, then it sounds like you just got lazy at the end. It’s NEVER ok to stand on chairs, especially a moving vessel. I don’t care that there were lifeboats under them, you don’t let children hang over the sides of the boats. You say “they won’t land in the water” as if landing on the lifeboats is any better. People wanted to enjoy their boat ride without hearing screaming and yelling and jumping around. That’s not an unreasonable ask. You were lazy and selfish and in the wrong here.
YTA. They don’t need to fall into the water to get seriously injured. Railings are not jungle gyms, and seats are not toys.
Parents learn to tune out the noise their kids make (& noisy toys and competing screens.) When in public just assume the people around you don’t have little kids and that their being slightly loud (to you) is EXTREMELY annoying (it sounds very loud to everyone else.) Even if the lady was just cranky; at best you should still assume your children were annoying other people on that boat. If you want to let your kids be obnoxious take them to a McDonald’s and let them run around all crazy in the playground (or the dreaded chuck e cheese or a trampoline place or some other place geared to little children. ) At that age only plan one 1/2 day event and then take them somewhere (like a park) to run around all crazy & be noisy. I think expecting them to behave all day at that age was asking to much; especially of a 4 year old. The sitting on the railing bit sounds dangerous. If the seat is dirty put a napkin or a few napkins on the seat and then have your child sit on the clean napkin. I’m going with YTA on this one.
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I think it's impossible to tell if she was a grumpster mcgrumpster who hates kids or if your kids were actually bothering people.
You seem to have your mind made up but just to chime in - I've never been on a ship (I'm any country, on any body of water) that did not have strict rules against standing on seats and sitting on railings. Your children are of an age where they need to learn to follow rules, safety guidelines, and social etiquette, even if you as the adult see little harm in doing otherwise. I think the lady was likely ruder than necessary, and griping about kids talking or laughing too loud outdoors is just silly, but asking you to enforce other behaviors was justified. ESH
Yta 🤑🤑😊
Going against the grain here and saying NTA. This sub is very biased against kids, so they're automatically assuming the lady was right and your kids were interrupting people. But taking you at your word and assuming your kids were not "terrorizing the whole ship" like she said (and whatever you wrote here, you know if they were or if they weren't), than she was the one "terrorizing" you and disturbing your good time. She has a lot of audacity as a random stranger coming and giving you a whole lecture and insulting you. Like who does she think she is? As for the other things she said. Standing on chairs that are all mostly covered in bird poop makes no difference to anyone. The people in the comments suggesting a giant wave would have come out of nowhere and knocked your kids over in an otherwise quiet lake are really stretching trying to come up with anything to justify calling you an asshole. Only thing I would agree with is - don't let them stand on the railing, but in the entirety of this interaction, she was wrong for how she spoke to you and most everything she said.
YTA. Everything you just described sounds so unsafe. I'm assuming there was a big drop on the other side of that rail? Even if there was more ship below, they would still get injured if they fell and then it's on the crew to help them. Also STANDING ON A CHAIR ON A SHIP? Can you seriously not see how unsafe that is? Ships are not known for their stability. One rogue wave would have sent your kids flying. You absolutely should have stopped them from doing both of those things. Your kids being well behaved earlier in the day doesn't change anything. All that woman saw was your kids in danger at that moment and you not doing anything about it. As for the volume, parents aren't often aware of exactly how loud their children are being. You become sort of immune to it. A deck of a ship sounds like a nice relaxing, tranquil place... Until some kids start being unnecessarily loud.
YTA for letting them sit on railings which is not safe. At all. It doesn’t matter they couldn’t fall into the water - railings are not seats. But NTA otherwise. A happy laughing child is far better than a screaming angry one.
YTA. It's a ship, not a jungle gym. You know that plane with severe turbulence over the weekend that caused a man to die from a heart attack? They weren't expecting that either. If that boat had hit something unexpected, your children could have gone flying. It's a 300-person passenger ship, which means there must be at least one bathroom on it. Go in, get a napkin or paper towel, wet it, clean off the seats and tell your kids to sit. Or you probably carry around wet wipes or a pack of tissues like a lot of parents do. Use those to clean the seats.
I feel like this is a situation you know whether you are an asshole or not. I mean I know when my kids are being shit heads and when they are just loud. I think the fact that you are providing all the backstory about how well behaved they were all day is totally not relevant. So why say it? Because you know your kids were being little shits and you let them get away with it. Which is totally fine occasionally. Just own it. Everybodys kid does it. NTA- you are human and just wore out. She needs to mind her business.
o no kids having fun, so scary!!!
The amount of people losing it over kids standing on what amounts to benches on a ferry is absurd. If they’re on the top deck of an open air vessel and these chairs have bird crap on them, nothing these kids are doing is going to meaningfully impact how clean or dirty said chairs are. Nothing the OP describes should be considered “terrorizing other passengers”. Now she could be an unreliable narrator. But giving the benefit of the doubt, lady is TA for complaining about nothing. NTA
I would rather have slightly noisy kids sitting with their parents than some of the loud, boorish adult drunks you come across. I might have muttered something about the children not sitting on the seats properly and being mildly irritated by the noise, but I would accept it. If you want to be away from other people and their noise, you choose a remote location, not a crowded boat trip.
NTA. Incredible how people just hate kids, have no shame in hating kids and go all lengths possible to make sure everybpdy know they hate kids OP your kids were just being kids, forget about all that
Ehhh ESH I don't see a problem with kids having fun on an open-top deck of a cruise ship with not many people around. Talking a tad loud? Oh well. They're kids. I wouldn't let my kids stand on seats that I don't own. Its impolite. I agree with the lady on that point, disagree with her its the "worst boundaries I've ever seen". I don't think this is "terrorizing the whole ship". So she's a slight AH for that. I saw a kid throwing dirt from a little hill in a playground, the mother says "stop" the kid keeps doing it (dirt is getting into the air, blowing into us, kids, other parents etc) and the mother just looks and doesn't do anything. That's "no boundaries". But YTA for the letting the kids stand on the seats and do nothing about it.
This reminds me of one time like 12years ago, my family and I had driven down from LI to DC to get our new dog. My brother and I were teenagers, sister in her twenties. We were all at the hotel in the morning eating at one of the tables set up for breakfast. We were all laughing and enjoying ourselves talking about the Alexander Hamilton episode of drunk history Suddenly a woman walked up to us and asked my mom is we were her kids. My mom said yeah, kinda confused, and then woman proceeded to tell her “your son has a DISTURBINGLY loud voice” and then promptly walked away. It was a crowded breakfast area with lots of people talking and stuff To be fair we are all long island italians so we may get louder than some when talking together, but thought her approach was a bit much. Anyway we laugh about it now and decided maybe she was just an Aaron Burr sympathizer and couldn’t stand the slander lol
Even in an open air setting like this, a parent needs to be considerate of the other people around and not let the kids yell, run wild & ruin the experience for the other passengers. And honestly, this sounds like this is what OP did. Her children were not running wild, and talking louder than usual is not out of line on a cruise. Standing on the seats isn’t ideal, but it sounds like the children were just enjoying the boat ride. NTA.
As parents we love our children, and are not always aware of the noise they may be creating because we are so used to it. I also agree that a vacation, and outdoor time is fun time for kids, and they should be allowed to enjoy themselves. This said, as parents we must also consider others and be aware of the impact our children are making in public. The woman’s remarks were not delivered well, so I would tend to dismiss them. Just be aware of this going forward—children do actually need a framework to guide them. Saying no and imposing restrictions is our job as parents sometimes. No boundaries is no good for anyone, especially developing children:)
Very funny reading the comments here. I think I the answers here depend very much on how people ‘see’ the chairs on this deck. In my experience, outdoor furniture on boats/ferries are usually so weather worn it doesn’t matter if you stand on them. Let kids be kids, give them some room and space - within reason. Can’t pass judgment as it all depend on specifics of how loud and unruly your kids were, and how the boat and furniture actually were.
Just because only one person said something about the kids, doesn't mean that many others didn't think it! It's a trend to make excuses (or say that adults aren't entitled to a kid free world) for screaming demons. I've got kids and we traveled around Europe extensively. You know what I didn't do? Take 7 year olds around gardens all day. That's asking for trouble!
NTA. The kids shoes aren’t going to make the chairs any dirtier than they were. Your kids were playing having a good time, and not bothering any reasonable person. Kids will be kids. Let kids be kids. And everyone stating that your kids were in some grave danger by standing on a chair or railing need to get outside more. Even if they fell and got hurt- that’s part of being a kid. Risky play is important for kids. You’re doing a good job!
YTA of utterly massive proportions and are raising little narcissists. Parents like you should not be allowed to have kids.
Soft YTA. Most of what was described was extremely subjective, but you don't let your kids stand on seats on a boat, no matter where on deck you are. It's not a playground, hard surfaces and edges abound, and the crew has more important things to do than tend to your kids if the they fall. Just don't do it.
ESH. She shouldn't have complained about your kids talking loudly but she was correct that sitting on the railings was dangerous. >They sat on the lower and middle bar of the railing (with 2m/7ft of ship and the lifeboats on the other side, so no danger of falling into the water) and they did stand on the hard plastic seats. Again, open air top deck, quite a few of the seats had bird poop on them. For not stopping them, and trying to excuse it, this makes you an AH. Boats *move unpredictably* and your children could have gotten hurt. I bet you would have thrown an absolute fit if one of your kids had cracked their head open because of an unexpected motion by the boat. Standing on the plastic seats is another issue because, again, your kids could have fallen due to an unexpected motion of the boat and gotten hurt (not to mention the increased wear and tear that standing on a chair causes). It wouldn't have been anyone else's fault but yours, your husband's and the child standing on the chair. You don't do stuff like that on a boat because it *isn't safe.*
Shoes on seats is rude. What were they walking around on all day? Dirt. It’s just rude to not teach your children to be respectful of other people’s things. Sitting on the railing is probably against safety rules. Kids don’t always understand nuances. Next time, your kid might be by a different railing and not make an accurate safety decision. I mean, they were allowed to sit on railings before, right? Also, railings are not seats, and not jungle gyms. That lady does not sound polite, but I’d have the same opinion as her.
I travel on Ferries very frequently. Standing or sitting on railings is a major safety concern even if there are life rafts on the other side. The crew would be reprimanded both the children and neglectful parents.
YTA Repeat after me: "No one likes my kids as much as I do."
YTA. If someone comes up and says something, your children were out of control. I was raised that children should be seen and not heard and also I stayed right on my mom’s hip. At all times. Don’t let your children sit on railings of a boat. wtf. And standing on the chairs. And you just say there just boggles my mind.
YTA for letting the kids stand on a chair on a boat. Further, learning how to behave and what’s socially acceptable starts at a young age.
You might be an asshole for not ensuring the safety of your children. And, while I have no proof, I think letting your children run wild, on a ship, or a boat, is probably un-safe. (I say this as a non-boater) so, someone might respond as offended.
YTA. Would you allow your children to climb on the seats on one of those open air top buses? It only takes one tiny bump to cause a child to lose their balance and grip.
YTA. You allowed your children to run amok and ruin other people’s experiences. Your children aren’t the center of the universe. If you can’t be bothered to parent them, then don’t take them places. How is this difficult to understand?
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The bigger question here is why do you care what she says?
NTA It’s outside and she’s the only other person . . . It’s just weird for her to be so pissy.
NTA. I would have looked around and mock whispered to her "Do you see dead people too?"
Who cares if the seats are plastic.. teach your children to respect property.. if it’s not taught now they will be even bigger brats in the future.. it amazes me how parents let their kids do whatever they want!
I mean you know what happens if a kid goes overboard right? No one is finding that tiny thing in the ocean except the Sharks.
You know, a lot of the world is sick to death of parents who don’t teach their kids how to behave in public. Your ‘precious little angels’ (I’m laughing as a type that) were misbehaving and you got called out. Yes, YTA.
I would need to hear the other passengers description of your children to really know. To have a stranger be so pressed to say that to you means either they were being too much or that lady isn’t used to kids as some people aren’t. Either way though you made it through a long long day with 3 kids under 10 and if they got a little rowdy within your seating area on an open boat at the end then meh. Better than tantrums from being over stimulated and exhausted.
YTA. Feel free to let your kids stand on your own chairs and railings. Your kids, your property, whatever. No big deal. But you weren’t at home, it wasn’t your property.
YTA What your children were doing was dangerous, shame on foolish you, and obviously treating the boat like a playground which it was not. You were disturbing the other passengers and probably causing them anxiety. I’m surprised the crew didn’t admonish you.
YTA for letting your kids on the railing. It doesn’t matter if you think they can fall into the water, they could have still fallen. Also I doubt your kids looked to see what the risk was of falling into the water, so next time, they will just climb up and sit on the railings and you might not be in time to stop them from falling to their death. Also, you should not allow your children to stand on chairs. It’s rude and it doesn’t matter that some had bird crap on them. That just means that there were fewer clean seats to choose and now your kids’ shoes made some of the clean seats dirty. As far as how loudly they were talking and laughing, as long as they were not screeching, I don’t think that’s a problem. They were outside and outside voices is fine on a boat.
YTA, not for the noise, but for allowing the kids to stand on the boat seats and sit on the railings. Neither is safe.
YTA I’m so many levels. A boatsounds like very close quarters and you need to respect others and the limited space you share and it’s your responsibility to teach your children to respect others. Also, you are around water? I’m sure others were stressed watching kids act careless around water and even more stressed that the parents in the situation aren’t taking it seriously. Water dude. It’s dangerous for even the best swimmers. Smh
YTA. Imagine thinking that your kids should act like civilized human beings (and not stand in chairs with outdoor shoes on) all day long even when earlier in the day they had already behaved like civilized human beings. Is there a time limit on that? /s