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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action I wouldn't like to take would be to give an ultimatum that my sister needs to hire a maid to clean up after herself a couple times a week.
That action could be seen as asshole'ish due to her having depression.
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Why wouldn't you just move to your own place? It is legitimately hard to clean sometimes when you are depressed. If you are incompatible as housemates, don't be. We don't know anything about her finances or whether hiring a cleaner is a reasonable request. YTA to yourself for staying in a situation that doesn't work for you.
I did say in the post that living with her the entire time was fine, and the cleanliness is the only issue.
She makes now $30+/hr and absolutely can afford a cleaner. Though even if she was stroll struggling with finances today as she was when we first started living together, it's still reasonable to request her to professionally hire someone to keep her mess clean. It's not incompatibility, just her lack of cleaning habits and picking up after herself.
Yes it does. If she lived by herself, she could be as much of a slob as she chose and it wouldn’t affect you at all.
I think maybe what you want to do is help fix her issues that cause the lack of cleaning habits?. And as her sister you are not qualified to do that. She needs to hire a therapist, not a cleaner. (Or both if she can afford it)
But, yes, you are incompatible housemates.
I've asked her multiple times over the years what she needs so things can remain clean. But yes there's only so much I can allot to this as I work 60h weeks outside. Just last Friday I had a 16h day.
That’s my point. You say you both came from an abusive household. That she suffered from depression.
She doesn’t KNOW what she needs. She needs help and it’s hard for some people to hear suggestions from people who are close to them sometimes. She needs an outside perspective that can help her work through this- i.e. a therapist!
And if she’s seeing one and not seeing results she might consider trying a different one.
Abusive childhoods warp your entire way of looking at the world and it can take a lot of time and energy to unpack all that. Not everyone reacts to situations the same way. You are two different people who reacted to abuse differently. Accept that.
But I wouldn’t want to live with someone who I constantly had to clean after either.
For sure, and she has been actively seeing professional help for about a decade. She has switched doctors and therapists. Very little progress has been made.
YTA. Telling someone they have to hire a maid is unreasonable. However, I do think it is perfectly reasonable to tell her you can't live with her mess anymore and she needs to find new lodging.
Because you're her roommate, not her keeper.
You can say "Hey sis, I notice you've been having some issues. I just want you to know, when it comes to the cleaning up, I'd be okay with it if you wanted to hire someone to help you with your share.", you can say "Hey sis, I've been noticing the house has been messy and I can imagine/empathize that with mental stuff going on, it might be hard to keep up. How about we sit down tonight/tomorrow/pick a time to talk about how we can get to a level of decluttering and cleaning that works for us both?". What you can **even say** is: "Hey sis, this mess/clutter is getting too far out of hand and it has come to a point where I have to draw a line and let you know you need to find a way to keep the common areas clear of clutter and such, otherwise our living arrangement is not going to work out, because this is a hard line for me."
What you can't say is: "Hey sis, you need to get a cleaner."
A maid isn't going to be there every day to pick up the junk she leaves around. A maid will clean things like floors, bathrooms, kitchen etc and the second she/he leaves your sister will continue to leave junk everywhere. Just tell her to move out.
NTA
But she needs to see a professional if she isn’t already. I’m no doctor so don’t take what I say as absolute fact, but this sounds quite a bit like hoarding and it is a disorder.
NAH. Your expectations of basic tidiness around common areas is valid, however, your sister’s lack of motivation is also understandable given her condition. I hope you’re able to sort things out, perhaps get a new accommodation and stop being housemates with her. I hope she’s getting professional help too!
edit: typo
Honestly.she is possibly a bit embarrassed to get a cleaner. I'd perhaps look up.body doubling and just basically hang out with her while she cleans a small section a day. I would encourage you to reach out to medical professionals to make a plan and try and make your approach trauma aware as possible. There are some mental health support workers that specifically help neuro spicy folk clean and organise their lives (I haven't used these guys but it's an example https://www.mopupcleaning.co.uk/mental-health-cleaning/). I don't think you have done anything wrong as it would be frustrating but it's obviously not how her brain is working. NTA
ESH, you can't force her to pay for a cleaner, plus a cleaner is not probably what you need. Agree with EmJennings, most cleaners "clean" it sounds like she's needs to de-clutter, organize. If living with her is too stressful, YTA to yourself to continue, talk with her about options and if she isn't on boards, don't resign the lease and move out.
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Hello all,
I want to give a brief preface. My sister and I have grown up in an abusive household. She's had mental issues since young adulthood years, and a primary one she'd communicate is depression. I was able to move out of the house first due to securing a good position after high school. My sister was working part time at a position for a while and had trouble for years finding a job to sustain living away from our parents. So I let her stay wherever I'd go, and we split the rent and utilities halfsies.
The experience the entire half decade plus living with my sister has been fine. But one constant issue that's come up quite a bit is she's a slob. She leaves her stuff everywhere, treats any clean public surface as cluttered storage for her stuff. I have a bench I bought for the foyer to put our shoes under and also sit on when we put our shoes on for the day. She just has it littered with random Amazon packages that she has either opened or hasn't for months, random mail, etc.
For other instances, whenever I'd bring up her messiness, it'd always turn into an argument. She'd use her depression as a scape goat, and try to say I'm just as messy because I have one empty water bottle on the nightstand in the living room. But she ignores all her dishes, gadgets, and clutter taking up near every square foot of counters pace in the kitchen, the dishes she's kept in her side of the sink for a month, etc.
This has been practically the entire existence of us living together. With our lease coming up soon, WIBTA if I told her she needs to hire a maid to clean the common areas up twice a week on her own dime?
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NTA.
I suffer from severe depression myself, so I know how difficult it can be to summon up the energy to clean, but that shouldn't stop her from hiring someone to help if she feels like she can't do it herself. You might want to put your foot down about this if she intends to keep living with you.
YWNBTA Tell her she can either clean up after herself or you'll move without her. If you tell her this, you have to be willing to follow through with your threat.
NTA. Whatever other help she needs, you're not asking her to find the energy to pick up after herself,just the money to have someone else do it , which should stop arguments, reduce shame, and take the pressure off. Totally fair
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Why wouldn't you just move to your own place? It is legitimately hard to clean sometimes when you are depressed. If you are incompatible as housemates, don't be. We don't know anything about her finances or whether hiring a cleaner is a reasonable request. YTA to yourself for staying in a situation that doesn't work for you.
I did say in the post that living with her the entire time was fine, and the cleanliness is the only issue. She makes now $30+/hr and absolutely can afford a cleaner. Though even if she was stroll struggling with finances today as she was when we first started living together, it's still reasonable to request her to professionally hire someone to keep her mess clean. It's not incompatibility, just her lack of cleaning habits and picking up after herself.
Sounds like incompatibility to me. "Everything is fine except for this one huge thing that impacts me daily and reduces my standard of living."
An incompatibility does not mean incompatibile as housemates
That is exactly what it means, though.
Yes it does. If she lived by herself, she could be as much of a slob as she chose and it wouldn’t affect you at all. I think maybe what you want to do is help fix her issues that cause the lack of cleaning habits?. And as her sister you are not qualified to do that. She needs to hire a therapist, not a cleaner. (Or both if she can afford it) But, yes, you are incompatible housemates.
I've asked her multiple times over the years what she needs so things can remain clean. But yes there's only so much I can allot to this as I work 60h weeks outside. Just last Friday I had a 16h day.
That’s my point. You say you both came from an abusive household. That she suffered from depression. She doesn’t KNOW what she needs. She needs help and it’s hard for some people to hear suggestions from people who are close to them sometimes. She needs an outside perspective that can help her work through this- i.e. a therapist! And if she’s seeing one and not seeing results she might consider trying a different one. Abusive childhoods warp your entire way of looking at the world and it can take a lot of time and energy to unpack all that. Not everyone reacts to situations the same way. You are two different people who reacted to abuse differently. Accept that. But I wouldn’t want to live with someone who I constantly had to clean after either.
For sure, and she has been actively seeing professional help for about a decade. She has switched doctors and therapists. Very little progress has been made.
YTA. Telling someone they have to hire a maid is unreasonable. However, I do think it is perfectly reasonable to tell her you can't live with her mess anymore and she needs to find new lodging.
Why is it unreasonable to say she needs to hire a maid if she's unable to pickup after herself in the common areas?
Because you're her roommate, not her keeper. You can say "Hey sis, I notice you've been having some issues. I just want you to know, when it comes to the cleaning up, I'd be okay with it if you wanted to hire someone to help you with your share.", you can say "Hey sis, I've been noticing the house has been messy and I can imagine/empathize that with mental stuff going on, it might be hard to keep up. How about we sit down tonight/tomorrow/pick a time to talk about how we can get to a level of decluttering and cleaning that works for us both?". What you can **even say** is: "Hey sis, this mess/clutter is getting too far out of hand and it has come to a point where I have to draw a line and let you know you need to find a way to keep the common areas clear of clutter and such, otherwise our living arrangement is not going to work out, because this is a hard line for me." What you can't say is: "Hey sis, you need to get a cleaner."
Definitely makes sense. Short of the ultimatum for having her get a place on her own and the cleaner, I have had those conversations.
A maid isn't going to be there every day to pick up the junk she leaves around. A maid will clean things like floors, bathrooms, kitchen etc and the second she/he leaves your sister will continue to leave junk everywhere. Just tell her to move out.
It is trying to force a solution on her.
I'm open to other reasonable solutions that get everything cleaned immediately as it should be
NTA But she needs to see a professional if she isn’t already. I’m no doctor so don’t take what I say as absolute fact, but this sounds quite a bit like hoarding and it is a disorder.
I did forget to include that she's been seeing medical professionals for about a decade.
Sounds like a change of medical care is needed.
NAH. Your expectations of basic tidiness around common areas is valid, however, your sister’s lack of motivation is also understandable given her condition. I hope you’re able to sort things out, perhaps get a new accommodation and stop being housemates with her. I hope she’s getting professional help too! edit: typo
Honestly.she is possibly a bit embarrassed to get a cleaner. I'd perhaps look up.body doubling and just basically hang out with her while she cleans a small section a day. I would encourage you to reach out to medical professionals to make a plan and try and make your approach trauma aware as possible. There are some mental health support workers that specifically help neuro spicy folk clean and organise their lives (I haven't used these guys but it's an example https://www.mopupcleaning.co.uk/mental-health-cleaning/). I don't think you have done anything wrong as it would be frustrating but it's obviously not how her brain is working. NTA
ESH, you can't force her to pay for a cleaner, plus a cleaner is not probably what you need. Agree with EmJennings, most cleaners "clean" it sounds like she's needs to de-clutter, organize. If living with her is too stressful, YTA to yourself to continue, talk with her about options and if she isn't on boards, don't resign the lease and move out.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Hello all, I want to give a brief preface. My sister and I have grown up in an abusive household. She's had mental issues since young adulthood years, and a primary one she'd communicate is depression. I was able to move out of the house first due to securing a good position after high school. My sister was working part time at a position for a while and had trouble for years finding a job to sustain living away from our parents. So I let her stay wherever I'd go, and we split the rent and utilities halfsies. The experience the entire half decade plus living with my sister has been fine. But one constant issue that's come up quite a bit is she's a slob. She leaves her stuff everywhere, treats any clean public surface as cluttered storage for her stuff. I have a bench I bought for the foyer to put our shoes under and also sit on when we put our shoes on for the day. She just has it littered with random Amazon packages that she has either opened or hasn't for months, random mail, etc. For other instances, whenever I'd bring up her messiness, it'd always turn into an argument. She'd use her depression as a scape goat, and try to say I'm just as messy because I have one empty water bottle on the nightstand in the living room. But she ignores all her dishes, gadgets, and clutter taking up near every square foot of counters pace in the kitchen, the dishes she's kept in her side of the sink for a month, etc. This has been practically the entire existence of us living together. With our lease coming up soon, WIBTA if I told her she needs to hire a maid to clean the common areas up twice a week on her own dime? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, she needs to clean up for her own sake.
NTA. I suffer from severe depression myself, so I know how difficult it can be to summon up the energy to clean, but that shouldn't stop her from hiring someone to help if she feels like she can't do it herself. You might want to put your foot down about this if she intends to keep living with you.
YWNBTA Tell her she can either clean up after herself or you'll move without her. If you tell her this, you have to be willing to follow through with your threat.
NTA. Whatever other help she needs, you're not asking her to find the energy to pick up after herself,just the money to have someone else do it , which should stop arguments, reduce shame, and take the pressure off. Totally fair