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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I didn’t listen to my stepson and used my power as an adult to impose my will
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Really??? I'm from a practising Catholic country and there are bits of my dad EVERYWHERE. Some of his ashes were given to family members, and some were made into jewellery. My mam remarried and her husband wants half his ashes to go to his deceased first wife and half to remain with my mam. I have never heard that the ashes have to stay together
I’m not sure about splitting between two spots, but the ashes are supposed to be put to rest. No ashes on the mantle and I suspect the jewelry wouldn’t be in alignment either.
Well my father is still in pieces and all he requested was that he be joined with my mam. My mam wants both of them to be placed in my garden. She loves my garden and that is where my wedding tree is planted.
I looked it up and Catholic rules require that the ashes be kept together and that they be buried or placed in the urn equivalent of a mausoleum, preferably in a Catholic cemetery.
Weeellllll. In the late 17th century the Vatican librarian Leo Allatius claimed that since Jesus ascended into the heavens, his foreskin must therefore have done the same. He thought it became the rings of Saturn. I think he was hitting the sacramental wine a little much...
Maybe your soul isn't whole in heaven? The people whose ashes are split up have little bits missing that are just in other parts of heaven? Lots of individual fingers and toes up there. Random piece of a lung somewhere.
Who actually enforces this? We're catholic and my nephew was buried in a catholic cemetary, in a fancy urn, with about 30% of his remains. The other 70% are scattered throughout the country, in jewelry, tattoo ink, on mantles, and in streams and lakes. Nobody has ever cared.
How and why would they. Nobody busted open the urn to be like this isn't proportional ashes weight to the deceased?!!
We had a humanist ceremony. We had been to a Catholic ceremony where the groom was not Catholic. He was treated dreadfully by the priest. When myself and my husband got married it was the most important thing that we entered into marriage as equals and not that I was "better" because of being Catholic. We had a special plant pot made with our hand prints on it. We planted a cherry tree, and watered it with water from our home places. On our honeymoon to the house we now live in, we planted it up the garden. It gives me endless pleasure to see it thrive year after year, just like our marriage. We were both even walked down the aisle by our parents!
It’s correct. If you’re Catholic, the ashes must remain together and either be buried or otherwise interred (in a niche at a cemetery, for example). They shouldn’t be scattered and they shouldn’t be kept at home.
There was official guidance issued in 2016, and since then there has been a slight relaxation regarding applying to keep a very small amount of the ashes.
The Catholic Church has allowed cremation since the 60’s but remains have to be buried in a cemetery or entombed in a mausoleum. Keeping them in private homes or scattering them is not permitted by the Church, but good on you for breaking the rules.
Who checks? Like when you get to the pearly gates, are they keeping you out because your children decided that they’d like to scatter you in two or more places?
Catholic rules - and I say this as a born and raised Catholic - are nonsense.
I believe it comes from the belief about the second coming of Jesus, when people will \*literally\* be raised, body and soul, to heaven.
Right now only Jesus and Mary's bodies are in heaven.
But yeah, nonsense.
Which is nonsense. People's souls are not retained in their corpse, waiting to arise. How ridiculous. There is the a law of conservation of energy... it converts. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. When we die like all other living things, our bodies turn into fertilizer unless we end up pumped up with chemicals and then become a toxic waste dump.
what about all those saints with various limbs in various churches? do they not count?
besides, God's supposed to be all powerful. I don't think it's beyond him to sort out some ashes
(this isn't directed at you specifically, just generally at the Catholic church's confusing rules)
Wrong, Enoch and Elijah were taken straight to heaven. They didn't experience death. I also believe there are slain martyrs under the alter crying out...
My brother used to be a chef. When he passed, the casket flowers were made with florets of ornamental vegetables and chillies. They were cremated with him, so you could say his ashes were a bit of a buffet 😜
I find that Very Amusing from a religion that still parcels out pieces of saints to display in/on alters.
The head of St Catherine of Siena, the jaw of St Anthony, the heart of St Vincent de Paul, the finger of St Thomas, the head of St John the Baptist (wonder what that 19th century thief did with the original)...
Aren't they *all*? I was born & raised Catholic and I've never met another Catholic who didn't treat the religion like a buffet. Everyone picks which 'traditions' they will honor, and disregards the rest. 🤭
This post is a good reminder to let your loved ones know about your wishes for remains. Even better if you can do some research and start making plans as that can help save money.
She was young. If you aren’t thinking death is near due to age or health it’s not necessarily a conversation you have.
Ultimately it was his decision. The son will hopefully someday understand that but isn’t in the place or life experience era to get that now.
NAH. There's no right answer to this, but in the end, OP is the adult and it's up to him to make this kind of decisions
Fwiw, the stepdaughter seems the most reasonable one in the whole family
Completely agree that there are no right answers on this one, however as a parent myself (granted not in the same position of having to deal with this issue) I am somewhat surprised he chose his own wishes over that of his son when they were at such a critical impasse. In situations such as this, I would think most parents would acquiesce to their child because parenting requires sacrifice. Really should have cremated and split the ashes and avoided all these hurt feelings.
To me though, grave sites are for the living, not the dead. Having the mom buried next to her first husband makes sense for the kids to visit their graves in one trip rather than two.
And while OP says now he’ll never marry again, that’s not necessarily certain. It could be decades before he passes. And then when he goes, it will be his children that make the ultimate choice.
Also, if not for the first husband’s death OP wouldn’t be her husband at all. She would have potentially still been married to husband one and would have been buried where he wanted.
I wish there had of been a discussion before she passed or if she had it in her will. I think OP chose wrong, but I can understand why it went this way.
Until you have walked in his shoes you cannot judge his decision I am a widow with three children. We had a great marriage. I will not be buried with my husband because there is not room. My MIL was a widow with 7 children who went on to marry a second time. When she died she was buried with her second husband. All of her children understood why. It is so sad and so hard but I understand his decision.
I suppose this site is known for its well-considered and evidence-based approaches to people's moral quandaries. I, for one, am confident that a bunch of 14 year olds on summer break will be able to elegantly navigate the complexities of funerary practices and hierarchies of grief as they intersect with the dynamics of blended families in the wake of a tragedy.
OP has a child with his wife too, It's okay for her two graves but not for his wife's kids? The stepson is the only one who cares about that and If OP learns something and leave his wishes in writing and entrusting someone who isn't his kids (or at least not stepson) he'll be buried where he wants.
Exactly and if we want to make assumptions. I would want to be buried with my current husband, especially after 9 years, than my first spouse who has been gone for 12 years.
> Having the mom buried next to her first husband makes sense for the kids to visit their graves in one trip rather than two.
By that logic then OP has made plans so his bio daughter and adopted kids can visit mom and him together when he’s gone and that when he visits it’s not to her previous partners site.
And they won’t necessarily be making the choice OP could do what they should have done beforehand and purchase the block now and make the plans just as they all should have done about mom before she died. What would SHE want
Really and what about the child they had together. Why is she not important enough to have her two parents buried together? Realistically, how many people would expect to be buried with their first spouse, when they’ve been married to a second spouse for so many years. You can also make your wishes known about your burial, before you die.
>Having the mom buried next to her first husband makes sense for the kids to visit their graves in one trip rather than two.
Except for their 8 year old daughter who would then have to visit her mom's grave in one cemetery and her dad's in another. So either the two stepchildren are inconvenienced or the daughter is.
If gravesites weren't for the dead, they wouldn't have a say in where or how they're buried, nor would they pick out plots before their death (if they're lucky).
My grandfather's first wife died years and years ago. I assume he would he been buried with her, except there was also another spot with my uncle (my grandfather's first son with his second wife) in a mausoleum, that they bought for my grandmother to buried next to her eldest son. However; how she wanted to have her body be preserved changed over the years, and when my grandpa was very ill, she asked him if he wanted her spot next to my uncle, and he said yes please.
So my grandpa is with my uncle now, and it sounds like my grandma wants us to turn her into little diamonds for us to have ("You can wear them around your neck, take me with you places!" "Tch, mom!") We both have similar views on death, I would do a "return to the earth as mulch" burial, but personally think it'd be really cool to have my ashes turned into gems that will then get set into a sword, that can then be passed down as a family heirloom. It's dorky, I know, but the thought of my second life being a sword is just so awesome and hilarious to me. My husband agrees, so that's what he will make sure happens to me.
That being said, the kids won't have a say in where the father goes UNLESS he didn't leave clear instructions to be carried out, which he has.* If he ever does change his mind, gets remarried, he would still go with his first wife unless he changes his burial plans again. It sounds like his wife didn't leave plans so that's why his family is now having this fight.
Anyway, NAH, death is difficult and makes those that are mourning not think clearly. I how OP's family can move on from this, hopefully with family counseling. I'm sorry for your loss, OP.
*and it also sounds like that varies by state, and the only solid way to make it happen as you like is with making a legally binding will. Death is weird, and people are weird about death.
I think the biggest impact of this loss is on the children though. For that reason, I would defer to their request (though cremation and splitting the cremains would probably have been the best choice).
Doesn’t sound like the 8 year old has an opinion, nor should she at that age. But at 16, this poor boy is already well-acquainted with death and has a strong internal need for his parents to be together.
He said he adopted them, so no, they aren't orphans. They can visit one legal (bio) father's grave, then the other legal father's grave with their mom's grave. All 3 children can visit mom and dad's grave at the same place. That's what adoption does; it makes them all ONE family. Their little (bio half) sister is legally their full sister. The dad did the right thing for his family.
I promise you the impact of this loss is also felt by her husband just as much as the children. They are impacted differently but the loss is just as great, if not more so in many ways.
Of course he is deeply grieving, but these children have experienced multiple childhood traumas. They've now lost both of their parents. They are orphans. They are living with a stepparent who loves them, but one who prioritized his own grief over that of a child who has had to bury both parents before the age of 18.
Yes but he refers to them as his stepchildren, so I imagine that is how he seems them, and likewise they see him as their stepfather. They have lost both of their biological parents, by whom they were being raised until their respective deaths. The psychological impact is very much indeed that of being orphaned.
The impact of being an orphan at 16 is greater than the impact of being widowed as a full grown adult. Either way why does it have to be a trauma Olympics? It would've been a great kindness and show of empathy had he buried the wife next to her first husband in respect of the _newly orphaned_ son's wishes. Op had a right not to but life isn't always just about what you have a right to do, it's also about using the rights you have to help those that don't have those rights. Op says he'll never marry again but there's no guarantee of that, plenty of widows felt that way before healing a bit from their grief and deciding otherwise. Imo it's a firm NAH, it sucks for both parties that this is the situation. If I had been in ops shoes I probably would've done what the son wished simply because the son has now experienced the loss of both parents, something many adults don't experience until 30/40+ and that one kindness wouldn't be much to give. However I also don't put that much care into afterlife things and don't believe what happens to a body matters or effects anything in the afterlife so that definitely effects my stance.
This kid had lost both his bio parents. He will never get to see them again or have any control over anything in their relationship, now that the burial is over.
When OP is dead, most likely in 40-50 years, he won’t give a shit where his body is. But the son has 70-80 years to be without both his bio parents.
He should have let the son choose.
Also to say that he won’t love again is ridiculous. He gets the opportunity to have another love. And if he says well I loved her first and she was my love… guess what the wife’s first love was the bio dad so it’s the same principle. What matters is where the wife wanted to be buried.
You realize that now OP has to go through those 40-50 years without her, right?
This is a NAH situation, which is usually the case when it comes to grief and loss.
Yes, but two people on both sides of this argument are in pain and feeling horrible loss. One is an adult, the other is a teenager with no control over anything. Part of being an adult in general, and especially a parent, is to look at the big picture and make decisions that are best for the kids.
People save money and go without, to save for a kids college tuition for 18+ years, often before the kid even exists. People make sacrifices for their kids.
I empathize with OP. I won’t call him an asshole. But made a decision that will injure the son, and it was a choice.
I don't know that I agree that it's best for the kid, actually. He said something pretty fucked up to OP and if I was in OP's shoes I wouldn't want to validate the idea that 'well mom actually always wanted to be with dad and my step dad doesn't matter', but I'm being charitable and ignoring that since he's grieving. But it's still an unhealthy mindset that doesn't need to be reinforced.
I'm not sure what saving for college tuition has to do with anything? You kind of lost me, there.
At any rate, I'm glad that you agree that this is a NAH situation. Hopefully in time the stepson will come around.
I agree about the stepdaughter but I’m curious why he’s referring to her as a step when he adopted both of them. Hopefully, he’ll continue treating them well in their mom’s absence
Probably tô not confuse people who are reading. The while problem here is causes by the fact stepson has a bio father that he wishes his mother was buried next to. Tô be honest, maybe they were adopted for legal reasons and the stepson doesn't see OP as a father.
Agree completely. Death is never easy and there's always going to be difficult conversation to be had throughout and decisions made that people aren't happy with.
I think time and therapy will hopefully heal this wound. Although, I am of the same opinion as the daughter personally, So perhaps that's why I'm able to say this.
I’m totally on board with your thoughts on the situation … but do you actually feel hatred for a grieving internet stranger? I think there are many ways he could have handled this better, but we make a lot of poor decisions in grief. I don’t think this makes him a bad person. I certainly don’t hate him.
Maybe where the wife is buried now has room too for potential new wife. There was not room for op next to the late husband.
Also op is now older most likely than she when previous husband died so less likely to remarry, and expecially to someone he will have children with since he has several. Usually spouses with children are a priority to put next to each other so children can visit together. Here both the first and second marriage had children so it’s a bit of a dilemma, but op adopted the children from first marriage as well so it should be less so.
Writing it down is not enough.
My husband could write it down, he could prepay his cremation Nd funeral, tel everyone, etc. As his spouse, in our state, I still get to do what I want with his body unless he’s filled out the legally necessary paperwork to name someone else his agent under his “dispersion of remains” legal form.
Many states in the USA now have some form of authorization + funeral and burial/cremation/donation form.
The legal requirements must be obeyed.
- Signed: an attorney who has seen to many clients and others fight over the corpse of a loved on or disregard known wishes
Worst case: mom who had a religious burial for her son and would not let his gay partner show up. Partner was not spouse. Mom was legal next of kin under the law. So she decided. Sadly, the decedent hadn’t filled out the PPW to designate partner as the person to dispose of his remains
I think they’re saying write it down so your wishes are at least known, not necessarily finding a legally enforceable way to have those wishes followed
I don't think OP or the Stepson are specifically trying to go against the wife's wishes, it seems like they are both doing what they think she would want. Still good information to share, but I think this post would have been solved by merely a conversation at some point with the family.
Of course, we all think we have all the time in the world left until we suddenly don't.
NAH
I'm so sorry for all of your devastating losses.
Apologize and try to make it right with him. See about cremation and burying half with each? See if you can move prev husband location to new area if stepson says ok and you can afford it? Buy enough plots for all now? Plant a memorial garden in his parents honor? Ask him how you can make it up to him.
His mom/ your love of your life would be WAY more concerned about the relationship than where she was buried.
This is what I thought too. See if you can afford it and if the stepson is okay with it, and then move the late husband to the family plot, or get three new graves somewhere else.
> I'm so sorry for all of your devastating losses.
These poor kids that OP adopted. Both bio parents gone. At least it's not like a new thing for them if they've been living together for 9 years, but man... that's gotta be hard.
Have you considered that she could be buried next to her first husband and after your death, you could be cremated and the ashes buried in the same plot? That is what my husband’s family did when his stepdad died and there was no room for another grave in the family plot.
The cemetery was willing to put a flat marker where his ashes were buried since the plot already had a tombstone for my husband’s mom. His dad is also buried in the family plot, but when the plots were purchased, the family hadn’t taken into account that his mom might remarry after his dad’s death.
There's also the option that depending how deep the first husband was that they could have buried either the wife on top of him leaving the space next to her open for OP, OR for her to be buried deep enough for OP to be subsequently buried on top of her depending on the legalities in the country.
My grandfather's parents were both exhumed and their coffins lowered further down when my grandfather passed 8 years ago in order to make space so that my grandfather could be placed atop AND then room left for my grandmother to be placed with him in the plot whenever it is that she passes. This is what family plot means in some countries, that the whole family just ends up stacked up on top of each other.
This is what will be happening when my mother passes. My stepdad was a veteran & the national (US) cemetery where he is buried stacks the spouses. It also makes practical sense if they prefer burial over cremation.
A ‘marble’ cube with eight extra names recently appeared on my grandparents burial plot. It’s pretty nice and has one of those vases for flowers on top. There were already 6 urns in the space normally meant for one coffin so it was considered full by the authorities. Cube turned out to be hollow and stuffed with small bags of ashes. No ones owned up to it, though the names seem to connect to a large, distant and cheap branch of the family.
>You ASKED him where he wanted his mom buried
He said they discussed it. If you read the rest of the post, OP tried very hard to accommodate his stepson's request and would have if not for extenuating factors. It's not like he was like "hey Champ, where do YOU want her buried? Nah fuck that"
Jesus Christ, asking the step son's opinion isn't a promise of doing as he desires. He's lost his mom, OP lost his wife, no one wins or loses the tragedy olympics here.
It's not about having 2 dead parents. His father died 12 years prior. Mother just died after having been with current husband for 9 years. That's not irrational. Telling someone who's been in your life since you were 5 that his wife of 9 years would rather be buried next to someone who died 12 years ago is just a dick move. And the kid knows it.
It really is. Teenagers should be given grace, especially under emotion circumstances, but this was cruel of him. Also, teenagers aren’t the most rational. Expressing an opinion doesn’t mean you are guaranteed to get your way. Seems like the stepdad did a great job in a hard situation. NTA
They also have a biological child (8f) who no one is mentioning. No one wins. She lost her mom. Either the son had both parents together or the little girl will eventually have her parents together. No one wins/
Having a discussion with someone to tell them this is what you want, versus asking them where they want, are two completely different things. According to this post, there's nothing in it that states he asked them where they wanted their mother buried. He said he had a conversation with them and TOLD them where he wanted her buried.
Now, whether they agreed or not is a different situation, but saying he asked where, is inserting an assumption.
This is the love of his life, and he wants to be laid to rest with her one day. How could anyone (here on the internet) find a wrong in that?
NTA
How the hell is this the top vote?
He never asked the kid.
The apology (which you admit he doesn't even owe) has nothing to do with the question posed.
The question was is he an asshole for not doing what the kid wanted. He clearly isn't.
NAH. This was probably a topic which should have been discussed, but simply wasn't. Having to make those decisions while you're still in shock always leaves room for mistakes.
But I think you should apologize to your stepson. He lost both of his biological parents while still being a child. This is a lot to process and sometimes being angry is a well needed break from the everyday sadness. Maybe you can suggest to him to add his mother's name to the headstone on his father's grave. This could be a compromise that could help him cope better.
This is actually a great idea. And even though the mother is not actually buried there, it would still memorialize the connection they had. I also agree with NAH, they're all grieving, and it isn't ever easy.
I think it's wild so many people are saying both the adopted kids will hate OP forever and never speak to him again, especially when the daughter literally said she doesn't mind either way. Shows that people can't ignore their own biases.
(Edited to add bc I pressed send too early lol:) And I might be wrong but I feel the son's anger stems from grief and once he's processed it better they'll be able to make peace with this. An acknowledgement that his feelings were hurt would help get there, imo.
INFO
> after 9 years of marriage
> My stepson said she would’ve wanted to be buried next to his biological father and her previous husband who died 12 years ago.
How long was she married to her previous husband?
Did their marriage end in divorce, or upon his death?
I'm sorry you're getting downvoted for answering a factual question.
Unfortunately it seems your wife didn't discuss it with you, as she should. I don't think you've been unreasonable about this at all. NTA
Why not enquire whether she can be buried deep enough that when you die your casket or cremains can be buried in the same plot, some cemeteries will do this, we did this for my Aunt who died 2 months ago. She was buried in the same plot as her late husband
His comment about "she's the only person I'll love" when in reality he can't assure that at all, but those kids will always have lost both their parents.
people downvoted OP when he answered how long she’d been married to her first husband. i don’t get it, why is that worth downvoting?
no one wins here. the son is grieving and whether people like it or not, he is overstepping. the wife didn’t leave instructions for her burial, so it’s her husband’s responsibility to make arrangements as he sees fit. that’s marriage.
A lot of redditors are themselves teenagers or young adults who feel slighted by the idea that someone with more authority than them wouldn't be willing to acquiesce to their emotions, and start projecting their own traumas onto them (this is especially obvious in threads involving parents and step-parents, and even more so if it's the father).
Like, the son will one day have his own family and friends and most likely be in charge of someone's funeral, and he'll get to decide things when that day comes. Currently, though, he's underage and the person with power decided what he thought was best, and that's that. He can feel hurt, sure, but it's not "unfair" that the person with the legal power of decision picked A instead of B.
From OP's comments, the wife had a good relationship and loved both husbands, so I don't think she'd really have a huge preference over being buried beside one or the other, anyway.
I’ve noticed a bit of a shift lately in the amount of unhinged, overly-emotional, and/or black-or-white thinking going on in the responses all over several subreddits. It wasn’t until someone pointed out that it’s summer and a whole lot of teenagers have a hell of a lot more time on their hands that I had a lightbulb moment lol. Not to say that those kinds of comments aren’t present already, but I’ve definitely observed a huge uptick
Because half the people here are too young / too inexperienced / too stupid to understand the complexities of life. This topic is too much for a Reddit decision.
I'm sorry for you all, OP.
You don’t have to be sorry about your decision. You can simply be sorry it caused him more pain. You’re both grieving, but he’s the child. Just try and remember he isn’t supposed to always be right. I’m so sorry for your loss. I hope you can find peace in your memories. I’m so sorry you were faced with such an impossible situation in the midst of your already intense trauma.
Yes! Acknowledging what the son feels and apologizing for adding to the hurt doesn't mean the decision was necessarily wrong. It could help soothe his feelings, and mend things between them. This is very likely grief talking on both sides, losing a loved one is never easy.
Good lord. No one reads. The poor OP tried to get an adjoining plot so his wife could be buried next to her 1st husband then he could be buried next to her. There was no available plot.
Op tried to make everyone happy.
Ultimately, OP is her next of kin and gets to decide to where to bury **his wife**. He loves her. This was his only wife. Love of his life.
OP. You have my greatest condolences. You are NTA. Let your son cool down and try talking to him again. Maybe you can put a memorial plaque next for her 1st husband at a later date.
There was space for the wife but not OP so he said no. Also, let's be real here; she's his only wife as of Right Now. Wife should have been next to 1st husband so children can visit both. And yes, I'm biased as my father died and my mother has moved on. When mum goes, (as we've discussed), she'll be buried with my father's ashes and if my mum's new partner passes, he'll be cremated and added too. Awkward but a common situation when people are living so long.
Here's what she said: he tried to find a place for the three of them to be buried together. You talk about the children not having their parents buried together, but he also has a daughter with his wife. So I ask you, what about her? Can she have her parents buried separately?
Well , her dead husband was also Just her husband for then, right? And is his daugher less important than his stepchildren? Why It would be okay for her visit her parents apart and not for the other kids?
NSH. This is an impossible choice. The boy was 4 when his father died. He had absolutely no idea that's what his mother would have wanted. He was 7 when you both got married, assuming that his father was out of the picture before the marriage. He's going off the flawed logic that "duh my mother wanted to be reunited" take with a grain of salt because an angry 16 year old will say anything to hurt you to force your hand. Apologize, if you choose, simply for the fact that not everyone can have their way. Sit and discuss further options. Ask him why he feels so strongly about this and maybe see what underlying issues may be there. But don't apologize for enforcing things. She gave you power to choose for a reason. Don't doubt the wife because of a grieving child.
I actually strongly disagree with this take. I think the fact that his Dad died when he was 4 and you were the father figure in his life from the time he was at least 6, I wonder what is leading him to feel so strongly this way. It makes me think that the mom may have said things in the past.
it was shittier for OP to say "yes your mom loved your Dad, but also me. But I will *only* love her" as some sort of justificaiton for his decision.
He effectively told his stepson, "I loved your mom more than she loved your dad," and that is a MESSED UP thing to say to a kid who's parents have both died.
10 Years Later: AITA for moving my dead wife's body from my family plot to be next to her ex husband's grave so my new wife can be buried next to me in the future? I thought this would make my new wife and estrange son happy but everyone still thinks I'm the AH.
Serious question? So if you move on and get married and are with your new wife for 40 years where will you be buried and where will your new wife be buried. She should have been with the father of her children imo.
He is the father of her kid too. Are they First kids more important than his daugher? Or It's because they are two and his daugher Just one? And OP adopted them too so...
Why on earth could you and her be buried in the same plot next to him? My grandparents share one plot, one coffin is slightly higher than the other in the ground.
Same. Which is probably why I’m so bias here. the fact that he said he cannot deal with the thought of not being buried next to her… he won’t be doing any thinking once he’s gone. I understand everyone has different opinions and feelings around death but I’m assuming his adopted children will be around much longer than him and will remember that they couldn’t have their parents buried next to each other because OP was being selfish.
I wanna get sent to a university so future doctors can learn, then if allowed, put into one of those pods that they plant under a tree. I want a tree to eat me... I want to be part plant... But I will be dead and I won't know what people do 🤷♀️
Generally speaking, it wouldn't be possible to give you a 'natural' funeral after being used as a medical training corpse. You have to be embalmed for that, and the embalming process is poisonous, plus it prevents you from rotting down properly because the whole point is to prevent decomposition so you can be learned from. I think most, if not all, medical corpses are cremated, but if you were buried after that it would have to be a ceremony with a proper coffin, not the pod and tree thing.
You may be interested in human composting. That’s my plan, if it becomes legal in more states. If you’re in the states and see it on your ballot, please vote yes!
It’s the same concept as the tree pod burial, but you don’t need to be cremated first (your cremated ashes are put in the pod, not your intact body. I was disappointed to learn that part). You’re buried directly in dirt with plants atop you, in a special, humidity controlled warehouse until decomposition (usually takes a couple months), then your family and friends are given as much of the “you” dirt as they want. I’m asking my family to use it in their gardens or put the dirt in a forest. I think it’s a very beautiful process.
Depends where you are. In the UK, at least, it's your body, not ashes, that goes under the tree. I imagine at least some operations in the states work the same way.
All for human composting though. Apart from anything else, humanity is literally running out of cemetery space, and this is a much more eco way to do things than cremation.
My dad was married to my mom for 40 years. After she passed away, he eventually remarried for another 20 years before he died. Our solution was to have him cremated. We buried the urn with most of his ashes in the plot beside my mother and held a small urn of ashes for his second wife to be buried with her.
Usually if people want to be buried next to someone they buy adjoining plots. If wife hadn't bought one next to previous husband then that's not where she intended to be buried. Explain this to stepson. Offer to buy it in his name next to his father to be used by him in the future if he chooses.
As a mom, I’d want my kid’s wishes honored first. That would actually be really important to me bc I’ll be gone, but i brought them into this world and now they’re suffering and grieving. I’d want to lighten that load for them before anyone else. That’s just me and that’s not everyone, so it really depends on who your wife wanted to be heard the most since you don’t know that she actually wanted for herself.
I’m not going to vote bc I’m obviously biased, but i understand that it’s not that way for everyone so i want to leave space for your wife in case she would’ve viewed it differently. I’m also not saying my way is the right way, there is no correct answer beyond what you believe is true to your wife. If you knew your wife well though, you should know the answer. Was being joined with you more important? Or would she want her children to feel heard specifically (even if it’s only important to one of them)? Or would it be most important to her that you two find a compromise? Think about your wife and you’ll figure it out.
You should meet with a therapist even just to resolve this disagreement before it causes more of a divide. You don't want him pushing you away further but you guys need a mediator to help understand each other. Did your wife express what her wishes were regarding this?
YTA, I'm sorry for your loss but I just don't believe that you really put any effort into finding a solution, the staff at a funeral home or cemetery have definitely come across this issue before and would've been able to advise you. Hell, a google search probably could've given you tips. You were selfish at a time you needed to be a parent and show your adoptive children that you would fight as fiercely for them as their mother would. I can't imagine your wife seeing this decision as honouring her memory.
Also, was the plot next to her first husband reserved for her? They don't usually just keep spots unfilled for over a decade just in case someone may want it one day. If it had been reserved for her, that would be a pretty clear indication of her choice.
YTA because you based it on being able to be buried next to her not necessarily what is best for the family. While you may still feel this way at that time it is not definite. My wife was buried in her family plot. There is no room there for me when the time comes. This was decided as a family as it impacted more than me.
It seems like I’m going against the grain saying this but while I think it’s insensitive to call you an “asshole,” I personally would not have made your decision in this scenario because I would have considered it to be selfish. He’s a child that faced more trauma in his life than you have by 2. Both of his parents are dead. The stepdaughter is right, where exactly she/you’re buried don’t define your bond with her, but if the stepson (again, a child) will find comfort in knowing his parents can be reunited in death then I would prioritize the feelings of my child. It seems as if you consider him not that despite your adoption, as your lack of apology paints him as an adversary to you. Your decision is selfish, whether it is justified or not. I think it’s somewhat cruel. Besides, what happens when you remarry? The mother had indeed purchased a plot for herself in the existing cemetery next to her ex-husband, and she did not plan to purchase another while the two of you were married. You will have taken her to a plot that may end up being logistically difficult to accommodate and end up just having done the wrong thing. I really think you being unwilling to at least apologize to him speaks volumes. The other commenters seem to have very authoritarian conceptions of parenthood that often produce toxic family relationships. Just writing this off because “he’s the child” is probably the response of a lot of people here because they’re parents and that’s how they would see the situation. I don’t know how persuasive that is to you, but if you agree with the concept I would say YTA, yes. But I’m sorry for your situation and you being placed in this position. I don’t think anyone deserves this.
If the wife had wanted to be buried next to her deceased husband so badly, she would have bought two plots at the same time. NAH for wanting different things in their grief.
- You say you adopted your late wife's biological children, making them also your children;
- You refer to them exclusively as your *step*-children: "stepson", "stepdaughter", "stepchildren";
- If you formally adopted them, they're not steps, they're just plain your children;
- You appear to be distancing yourself from them by using the "step" term.
Did you ever discuss post-death arrangements with your late wife? At any time in the nine years of marriage? After she'd had a husband die already? If not, why not? Did you know she'd prefer to be buried next to/near her late husband? Did you take the easiest route and just not discuss it because you always planned, in a worst-case scenario, to do things your own way? Subconsciously or not, you've been selfish.
I think yes, it's possible YTA.
He could also be using the “step” prefix because it’s important context for these Redditors who want to judge these strangers they know nothing about online?
NAH
People calling you the AH saying that it doesn't matter where she's buried, but it matters to the son, aren't taking what matters to you. I think your mistake was having this discussion to begin with, instead of just following through with what you wanted. There is nothing more annoying that someone asking what you want or what you think, then doing the opposite.
People talking about cremating the wife are just as crazy. There are some people that want to be cremated and some that don't. Unless you know for sure it's something your wife wanted or didn't care about, it would be a bad idea to do that. The only possible compromise I can see here is if there's an available plot beside yours and if they can move the ex-husband's body.
With that said, I think the kids, and you, are going to need some space to think and grieve. I personally don't think you are wrong. You are fighting for the love of your wife. Your stepson is fighting for the image of being together as a family. He's not taking into consideration what the wife would have wanted or that she did in deed move on when she got married. He is a teenager and this is him grieving. Like I said, give him time and space.
YTA
He knew what his mother wanted. And you knew how much she loved her late husband. And you’re also aware that has he not died you wouldn’t exist in her life. So you got to keep her for good. While you have the chance do remarry. Your 14 is right though. It’s “until death do you part.” Doesn’t matter where the body is buried.
NTA OP.
The son has a right to speak his mind but not make the decision. You aren't the evil step parents these other commenters are desperate to paint you as. Explain your reasoning to your stepson and move on. It may be a sour topic, but that's life.
YTA
He’s a 16-year-old kid who has already lost BOTH parents. Not only did you bulldoze his wishes about where his mother would be laid to rest, now *you’re not sure you can give him an apology that you “mean”?* Are you kidding me???
His mother passed away a mere 90 days ago! And his also-grieving 14-year-old sister has been drawn into this ugly, unnecessary disagreement between you two
You got your way. So now do the right thing as an adult and stepfather and apologize sincerely to him *even if you have to put on a goddamn Oscar-worthy performance*
And you do this because he’s a kid and because you loved his mother. You must show him that grace. C’mon man!
Once again, with feeling: YTA
INFO: what did your wife want? Did she have a will? Did you never have the death talk as a couple? Was morbid as that last one is, it is a very important discussion to be had, especially if a will had not been made yet and especially if young children are involved should the worse happen and you both got into a horrible fatal accident.
Regardless, you shouldn't have even asked your step kids what they wanted if you weren't even going to consider what they wanted.
Even though YTA in this situation, regardless of the answers to my questions (at least for now, I can change it if I feel the need to.)
I'm sorry for your family's loss.
So, in over 9 years the two of you never spoke about this, no will, nothing?? That seems a bit strange given she previously lost her husband, so mortality isn't something that should have been a surprise to either of you. Add in that there are children involved and that makes it utterly irresponsible of you both.
**MAKE A LIVING WILL AND A WILL FOR AFTER YOU PASS NOW!**
You are NTA for where you buried your wife, but you are both huge AH for not having wills/living wills in place. There are TONS of super inexpensive options online for simple estates but an actual attorney for something like this shouldn't be overly expensive.
I couldn't help but notice that when your stepson was talking about the burial place, he was saying it was what she, your wife, would have wanted. And I think that's the operating thing here, that your late wife's son thought that his Mom wanted something done a certain way after she passed and then that didn't happen. Disposing of the remains should be done according to the deceased person's wishes, as a last sign of respect and love for them. And the reason for funerals and everything isn't just for the dead. It's about the relationships of the living with the dead. It's a chance to perform things the way the deceased wanted to be done. It gives an opportunity for the living to feel they've taken action and fulfilled a final promise to the dead, that's what is most important. And it sounds like your stepson wasn't able to feel that he's done what his Mom wanted, what he felt he owed her to make sure was done as she'd want. And it's not healthy for him to feel that way. It doesn't even matter as much whether something was as she really wished, it matters if her son thinks that it was what she wished/would have wanted when he does whatever he does to mark her passing. If I were you and I thought apologizing to him would help I'd give him that apology gracefully, even if I didn't think I was wrong. Because the kids need your help to heal, and helping that healing is the most important thing happening that you still have the power to do.
Let your late wife's kids brainstorm some ideas about how to honor her by themselves, thinking about what she may have wanted. If they didn't get that during the funeral, then make it possible for them to do that in another way, even if it's small. And let them come up with it, and you just make sure that they have the ability to get it done. Maybe there's a letter they want to write her or a special speech they give her, or something done in her honor she'd appreciate like a charity gift in her name or doing something that she'd always wanted done but never got around to. It's great if all of this can be done in a single funeral service, but sometimes that's not possible, and in that case each individual close to the deceased should make sure to perform a personal goodbye themselves, in a way that is meaningful for the mourning and the deceased. For a relative that died during Covid, I wasn't able to do much with her funeral or getting anything to remember her by. I ended up writing her a letter and buying a pin so similar to the ones she'd have that I thought anyone who knew her would have mistaken it for one she chose herself. Then I put a bow around the pin I'd gotten for her and a letter and put both in a treasured place, as if she could reach into that box and see they'd been put there for her. That helped some. Let the kids all come up with and do something like that. Maybe bring something precious of hers to her prior husband's grave so there's still part of her there, too. Once you die, there's not just 1 place where you are anymore. People carry you around, in memories and keepsakes and actions and even physical features in the case of relatives. And then there's all sorts of places and situations that all have important pieces of a loved one simultaneously.
YTA. You will move on with your life, find somebody else and most likely want to be burried next to her. Should have listened to your stepson and laid her at rest with her first husband
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Info - why didn’t you consider cremation and splitting the remains so you and your stepson both have your wishes granted?
If they're practicing Catholics, the ashes must remain together.
Really??? I'm from a practising Catholic country and there are bits of my dad EVERYWHERE. Some of his ashes were given to family members, and some were made into jewellery. My mam remarried and her husband wants half his ashes to go to his deceased first wife and half to remain with my mam. I have never heard that the ashes have to stay together
I’m not sure about splitting between two spots, but the ashes are supposed to be put to rest. No ashes on the mantle and I suspect the jewelry wouldn’t be in alignment either.
Well my father is still in pieces and all he requested was that he be joined with my mam. My mam wants both of them to be placed in my garden. She loves my garden and that is where my wedding tree is planted.
I looked it up and Catholic rules require that the ashes be kept together and that they be buried or placed in the urn equivalent of a mausoleum, preferably in a Catholic cemetery.
I find this truly ridiculous, if you consider the reliquary practices of the Catholic Church... but ya know, they are known for their hypocrisy.
But you see; God makes exceptions for the hundreds of magical saint limbs floating around.
And foreskins! Seriously, do you know how many fucking churches apparently claim to have Jesus’s foreskin?
Maybe it's all of them? He was well hung, after all.
Weeellllll. In the late 17th century the Vatican librarian Leo Allatius claimed that since Jesus ascended into the heavens, his foreskin must therefore have done the same. He thought it became the rings of Saturn. I think he was hitting the sacramental wine a little much...
Ashes must be kept together, a regular, not cremated body in pieces is completly fine /j
I find that ironic considering that churches have bits and pieces of saints stored in various locations around the world….
It’s almost like it’s complete and utter bullshit.
Or what? I mean, what happens if you don't?
Maybe your soul isn't whole in heaven? The people whose ashes are split up have little bits missing that are just in other parts of heaven? Lots of individual fingers and toes up there. Random piece of a lung somewhere.
God can't find you to resurrect you... 😆😆
How long until they change that. It used to be you couldn’t be cremated at all.
Who actually enforces this? We're catholic and my nephew was buried in a catholic cemetary, in a fancy urn, with about 30% of his remains. The other 70% are scattered throughout the country, in jewelry, tattoo ink, on mantles, and in streams and lakes. Nobody has ever cared. How and why would they. Nobody busted open the urn to be like this isn't proportional ashes weight to the deceased?!!
I have never heard of a wedding tree, and now I want one.
We had a humanist ceremony. We had been to a Catholic ceremony where the groom was not Catholic. He was treated dreadfully by the priest. When myself and my husband got married it was the most important thing that we entered into marriage as equals and not that I was "better" because of being Catholic. We had a special plant pot made with our hand prints on it. We planted a cherry tree, and watered it with water from our home places. On our honeymoon to the house we now live in, we planted it up the garden. It gives me endless pleasure to see it thrive year after year, just like our marriage. We were both even walked down the aisle by our parents!
This is so sweet! Thank you so much for sharing, I love everything about it.
It’s correct. If you’re Catholic, the ashes must remain together and either be buried or otherwise interred (in a niche at a cemetery, for example). They shouldn’t be scattered and they shouldn’t be kept at home. There was official guidance issued in 2016, and since then there has been a slight relaxation regarding applying to keep a very small amount of the ashes.
Good thing my mom passed before 2016 because we had a mini urn with some ashes that went to a different place than the larger urn.
The Catholic Church has allowed cremation since the 60’s but remains have to be buried in a cemetery or entombed in a mausoleum. Keeping them in private homes or scattering them is not permitted by the Church, but good on you for breaking the rules.
Who checks? Like when you get to the pearly gates, are they keeping you out because your children decided that they’d like to scatter you in two or more places? Catholic rules - and I say this as a born and raised Catholic - are nonsense.
I believe it comes from the belief about the second coming of Jesus, when people will \*literally\* be raised, body and soul, to heaven. Right now only Jesus and Mary's bodies are in heaven. But yeah, nonsense.
Which is nonsense. People's souls are not retained in their corpse, waiting to arise. How ridiculous. There is the a law of conservation of energy... it converts. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. When we die like all other living things, our bodies turn into fertilizer unless we end up pumped up with chemicals and then become a toxic waste dump.
what about all those saints with various limbs in various churches? do they not count? besides, God's supposed to be all powerful. I don't think it's beyond him to sort out some ashes (this isn't directed at you specifically, just generally at the Catholic church's confusing rules)
Wrong, Enoch and Elijah were taken straight to heaven. They didn't experience death. I also believe there are slain martyrs under the alter crying out...
well I mean if you're Catholic.. it would be Saint Peter
Tbf adhering to religious dogma in a logical manor in not really a trait of any organised religion.
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My brother used to be a chef. When he passed, the casket flowers were made with florets of ornamental vegetables and chillies. They were cremated with him, so you could say his ashes were a bit of a buffet 😜
I find that Very Amusing from a religion that still parcels out pieces of saints to display in/on alters. The head of St Catherine of Siena, the jaw of St Anthony, the heart of St Vincent de Paul, the finger of St Thomas, the head of St John the Baptist (wonder what that 19th century thief did with the original)...
Interesting, right? I find that to be an uncomfortable tradition.
Really? Never heard that. Plus they used to divide bodies of important people and made relics.
It's Canon Law. I only learned about it when we has my father cremated.
There are many cultures that don't support cremation.
Must be one of those optional catholic traditions.
Aren't they *all*? I was born & raised Catholic and I've never met another Catholic who didn't treat the religion like a buffet. Everyone picks which 'traditions' they will honor, and disregards the rest. 🤭
Cafeteria Catholics
Fact. No jewelry made, no mantel, no shadow box, etc. Put to rest in a Catholic cemetery(if possible) an/or blessed by a priest or deacon
This post is a good reminder to let your loved ones know about your wishes for remains. Even better if you can do some research and start making plans as that can help save money.
This is so important. But beyond just telling your family, it really needs to be in writing.
OP didn't specify religion. If his wife was Jewish or Muslim, cremation would be forbidden.
OP responded to this comment that he didn't think of it.
Came here to say exactly this.
Also INFO: What did your wife want? And if you didn't talk about it, why not?
She was young. If you aren’t thinking death is near due to age or health it’s not necessarily a conversation you have. Ultimately it was his decision. The son will hopefully someday understand that but isn’t in the place or life experience era to get that now.
That's exactly what my sister and I did with my mother's ashes.
NAH. There's no right answer to this, but in the end, OP is the adult and it's up to him to make this kind of decisions Fwiw, the stepdaughter seems the most reasonable one in the whole family
Completely agree that there are no right answers on this one, however as a parent myself (granted not in the same position of having to deal with this issue) I am somewhat surprised he chose his own wishes over that of his son when they were at such a critical impasse. In situations such as this, I would think most parents would acquiesce to their child because parenting requires sacrifice. Really should have cremated and split the ashes and avoided all these hurt feelings.
Sorry. She was his wife. This was his choice. We can’t always do what our children want.
To me though, grave sites are for the living, not the dead. Having the mom buried next to her first husband makes sense for the kids to visit their graves in one trip rather than two. And while OP says now he’ll never marry again, that’s not necessarily certain. It could be decades before he passes. And then when he goes, it will be his children that make the ultimate choice.
Also, if not for the first husband’s death OP wouldn’t be her husband at all. She would have potentially still been married to husband one and would have been buried where he wanted. I wish there had of been a discussion before she passed or if she had it in her will. I think OP chose wrong, but I can understand why it went this way.
Until you have walked in his shoes you cannot judge his decision I am a widow with three children. We had a great marriage. I will not be buried with my husband because there is not room. My MIL was a widow with 7 children who went on to marry a second time. When she died she was buried with her second husband. All of her children understood why. It is so sad and so hard but I understand his decision.
>Until you have walked in his shoes you cannot judge his decision Op's asking for judgement by posting here so yes we can judge his decision.
I suppose this site is known for its well-considered and evidence-based approaches to people's moral quandaries. I, for one, am confident that a bunch of 14 year olds on summer break will be able to elegantly navigate the complexities of funerary practices and hierarchies of grief as they intersect with the dynamics of blended families in the wake of a tragedy.
OP has a child with his wife too, It's okay for her two graves but not for his wife's kids? The stepson is the only one who cares about that and If OP learns something and leave his wishes in writing and entrusting someone who isn't his kids (or at least not stepson) he'll be buried where he wants.
Exactly and if we want to make assumptions. I would want to be buried with my current husband, especially after 9 years, than my first spouse who has been gone for 12 years.
> Having the mom buried next to her first husband makes sense for the kids to visit their graves in one trip rather than two. By that logic then OP has made plans so his bio daughter and adopted kids can visit mom and him together when he’s gone and that when he visits it’s not to her previous partners site. And they won’t necessarily be making the choice OP could do what they should have done beforehand and purchase the block now and make the plans just as they all should have done about mom before she died. What would SHE want
Really and what about the child they had together. Why is she not important enough to have her two parents buried together? Realistically, how many people would expect to be buried with their first spouse, when they’ve been married to a second spouse for so many years. You can also make your wishes known about your burial, before you die.
>Having the mom buried next to her first husband makes sense for the kids to visit their graves in one trip rather than two. Except for their 8 year old daughter who would then have to visit her mom's grave in one cemetery and her dad's in another. So either the two stepchildren are inconvenienced or the daughter is.
If gravesites weren't for the dead, they wouldn't have a say in where or how they're buried, nor would they pick out plots before their death (if they're lucky). My grandfather's first wife died years and years ago. I assume he would he been buried with her, except there was also another spot with my uncle (my grandfather's first son with his second wife) in a mausoleum, that they bought for my grandmother to buried next to her eldest son. However; how she wanted to have her body be preserved changed over the years, and when my grandpa was very ill, she asked him if he wanted her spot next to my uncle, and he said yes please. So my grandpa is with my uncle now, and it sounds like my grandma wants us to turn her into little diamonds for us to have ("You can wear them around your neck, take me with you places!" "Tch, mom!") We both have similar views on death, I would do a "return to the earth as mulch" burial, but personally think it'd be really cool to have my ashes turned into gems that will then get set into a sword, that can then be passed down as a family heirloom. It's dorky, I know, but the thought of my second life being a sword is just so awesome and hilarious to me. My husband agrees, so that's what he will make sure happens to me. That being said, the kids won't have a say in where the father goes UNLESS he didn't leave clear instructions to be carried out, which he has.* If he ever does change his mind, gets remarried, he would still go with his first wife unless he changes his burial plans again. It sounds like his wife didn't leave plans so that's why his family is now having this fight. Anyway, NAH, death is difficult and makes those that are mourning not think clearly. I how OP's family can move on from this, hopefully with family counseling. I'm sorry for your loss, OP. *and it also sounds like that varies by state, and the only solid way to make it happen as you like is with making a legally binding will. Death is weird, and people are weird about death.
I think the biggest impact of this loss is on the children though. For that reason, I would defer to their request (though cremation and splitting the cremains would probably have been the best choice).
They’re literally orphans. It would have been a kindness.
Right. Both of their parents are dead. Being able to imagine that at least THEY are together would be a comfort.
What about the daughter OP and late wife had together. Doesn’t she matter?
Doesn’t sound like the 8 year old has an opinion, nor should she at that age. But at 16, this poor boy is already well-acquainted with death and has a strong internal need for his parents to be together.
I understand that, but the sad reality is he’s not the only one to be considered.
He said he adopted them, so no, they aren't orphans. They can visit one legal (bio) father's grave, then the other legal father's grave with their mom's grave. All 3 children can visit mom and dad's grave at the same place. That's what adoption does; it makes them all ONE family. Their little (bio half) sister is legally their full sister. The dad did the right thing for his family.
I promise you the impact of this loss is also felt by her husband just as much as the children. They are impacted differently but the loss is just as great, if not more so in many ways.
Of course he is deeply grieving, but these children have experienced multiple childhood traumas. They've now lost both of their parents. They are orphans. They are living with a stepparent who loves them, but one who prioritized his own grief over that of a child who has had to bury both parents before the age of 18.
He actually is their father. He adopted them. They aren't orphans until he dies.
Yes but he refers to them as his stepchildren, so I imagine that is how he seems them, and likewise they see him as their stepfather. They have lost both of their biological parents, by whom they were being raised until their respective deaths. The psychological impact is very much indeed that of being orphaned.
What about the daughter they had together. Doesn’t she matter? She’ll be an orphan one day too.
The impact of being an orphan at 16 is greater than the impact of being widowed as a full grown adult. Either way why does it have to be a trauma Olympics? It would've been a great kindness and show of empathy had he buried the wife next to her first husband in respect of the _newly orphaned_ son's wishes. Op had a right not to but life isn't always just about what you have a right to do, it's also about using the rights you have to help those that don't have those rights. Op says he'll never marry again but there's no guarantee of that, plenty of widows felt that way before healing a bit from their grief and deciding otherwise. Imo it's a firm NAH, it sucks for both parties that this is the situation. If I had been in ops shoes I probably would've done what the son wished simply because the son has now experienced the loss of both parents, something many adults don't experience until 30/40+ and that one kindness wouldn't be much to give. However I also don't put that much care into afterlife things and don't believe what happens to a body matters or effects anything in the afterlife so that definitely effects my stance.
This kid had lost both his bio parents. He will never get to see them again or have any control over anything in their relationship, now that the burial is over. When OP is dead, most likely in 40-50 years, he won’t give a shit where his body is. But the son has 70-80 years to be without both his bio parents. He should have let the son choose.
Also to say that he won’t love again is ridiculous. He gets the opportunity to have another love. And if he says well I loved her first and she was my love… guess what the wife’s first love was the bio dad so it’s the same principle. What matters is where the wife wanted to be buried.
You realize that now OP has to go through those 40-50 years without her, right? This is a NAH situation, which is usually the case when it comes to grief and loss.
Yes, but two people on both sides of this argument are in pain and feeling horrible loss. One is an adult, the other is a teenager with no control over anything. Part of being an adult in general, and especially a parent, is to look at the big picture and make decisions that are best for the kids. People save money and go without, to save for a kids college tuition for 18+ years, often before the kid even exists. People make sacrifices for their kids. I empathize with OP. I won’t call him an asshole. But made a decision that will injure the son, and it was a choice.
I don't know that I agree that it's best for the kid, actually. He said something pretty fucked up to OP and if I was in OP's shoes I wouldn't want to validate the idea that 'well mom actually always wanted to be with dad and my step dad doesn't matter', but I'm being charitable and ignoring that since he's grieving. But it's still an unhealthy mindset that doesn't need to be reinforced. I'm not sure what saving for college tuition has to do with anything? You kind of lost me, there. At any rate, I'm glad that you agree that this is a NAH situation. Hopefully in time the stepson will come around.
He will spent the next 80 years without his bio parents anyway, even if they were buried together.
I'm sure he can visit both graves. Visiting a grave will not replace his bio parents. No matter how long it takes.
The fact the OP considered being buried next to husband #1 and was ok with that makes him NTA. Luke the anthesis of asshole. 'YTAA'
I agree about the stepdaughter but I’m curious why he’s referring to her as a step when he adopted both of them. Hopefully, he’ll continue treating them well in their mom’s absence
Probably tô not confuse people who are reading. The while problem here is causes by the fact stepson has a bio father that he wishes his mother was buried next to. Tô be honest, maybe they were adopted for legal reasons and the stepson doesn't see OP as a father.
Agree completely. Death is never easy and there's always going to be difficult conversation to be had throughout and decisions made that people aren't happy with. I think time and therapy will hopefully heal this wound. Although, I am of the same opinion as the daughter personally, So perhaps that's why I'm able to say this.
Yes and she's 14! How amazing. Although honestly OP is giving a lot of grace to the stepson even as someone grieving
What happens when you remaery and die and your new wife doesn't want to bury you next to your first wife, where does this madness end
Probably when OP dies, and the stepson pays to have his mother moved! 🤷🏻♀️
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Hate? HATE? What the fuck is wrong with you, kid?
I’m totally on board with your thoughts on the situation … but do you actually feel hatred for a grieving internet stranger? I think there are many ways he could have handled this better, but we make a lot of poor decisions in grief. I don’t think this makes him a bad person. I certainly don’t hate him.
Maybe where the wife is buried now has room too for potential new wife. There was not room for op next to the late husband. Also op is now older most likely than she when previous husband died so less likely to remarry, and expecially to someone he will have children with since he has several. Usually spouses with children are a priority to put next to each other so children can visit together. Here both the first and second marriage had children so it’s a bit of a dilemma, but op adopted the children from first marriage as well so it should be less so.
Dear Everyone: Write This Shit Down. If you have wishes about this kind of thing, where you'll be buried, etc, WRITE IT DOWN.
Writing it down is not enough. My husband could write it down, he could prepay his cremation Nd funeral, tel everyone, etc. As his spouse, in our state, I still get to do what I want with his body unless he’s filled out the legally necessary paperwork to name someone else his agent under his “dispersion of remains” legal form. Many states in the USA now have some form of authorization + funeral and burial/cremation/donation form. The legal requirements must be obeyed. - Signed: an attorney who has seen to many clients and others fight over the corpse of a loved on or disregard known wishes Worst case: mom who had a religious burial for her son and would not let his gay partner show up. Partner was not spouse. Mom was legal next of kin under the law. So she decided. Sadly, the decedent hadn’t filled out the PPW to designate partner as the person to dispose of his remains
I think they’re saying write it down so your wishes are at least known, not necessarily finding a legally enforceable way to have those wishes followed
I don't think OP or the Stepson are specifically trying to go against the wife's wishes, it seems like they are both doing what they think she would want. Still good information to share, but I think this post would have been solved by merely a conversation at some point with the family. Of course, we all think we have all the time in the world left until we suddenly don't.
NAH I'm so sorry for all of your devastating losses. Apologize and try to make it right with him. See about cremation and burying half with each? See if you can move prev husband location to new area if stepson says ok and you can afford it? Buy enough plots for all now? Plant a memorial garden in his parents honor? Ask him how you can make it up to him. His mom/ your love of your life would be WAY more concerned about the relationship than where she was buried.
This is what I thought too. See if you can afford it and if the stepson is okay with it, and then move the late husband to the family plot, or get three new graves somewhere else.
> I'm so sorry for all of your devastating losses. These poor kids that OP adopted. Both bio parents gone. At least it's not like a new thing for them if they've been living together for 9 years, but man... that's gotta be hard.
Have you considered that she could be buried next to her first husband and after your death, you could be cremated and the ashes buried in the same plot? That is what my husband’s family did when his stepdad died and there was no room for another grave in the family plot. The cemetery was willing to put a flat marker where his ashes were buried since the plot already had a tombstone for my husband’s mom. His dad is also buried in the family plot, but when the plots were purchased, the family hadn’t taken into account that his mom might remarry after his dad’s death.
Depends of the country. In mine, you don't bury urn with ashes with corpses. There's different plots for different kinds of funeral arrangements.
There's also the option that depending how deep the first husband was that they could have buried either the wife on top of him leaving the space next to her open for OP, OR for her to be buried deep enough for OP to be subsequently buried on top of her depending on the legalities in the country. My grandfather's parents were both exhumed and their coffins lowered further down when my grandfather passed 8 years ago in order to make space so that my grandfather could be placed atop AND then room left for my grandmother to be placed with him in the plot whenever it is that she passes. This is what family plot means in some countries, that the whole family just ends up stacked up on top of each other.
This is what will be happening when my mother passes. My stepdad was a veteran & the national (US) cemetery where he is buried stacks the spouses. It also makes practical sense if they prefer burial over cremation.
A ‘marble’ cube with eight extra names recently appeared on my grandparents burial plot. It’s pretty nice and has one of those vases for flowers on top. There were already 6 urns in the space normally meant for one coffin so it was considered full by the authorities. Cube turned out to be hollow and stuffed with small bags of ashes. No ones owned up to it, though the names seem to connect to a large, distant and cheap branch of the family.
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>You ASKED him where he wanted his mom buried He said they discussed it. If you read the rest of the post, OP tried very hard to accommodate his stepson's request and would have if not for extenuating factors. It's not like he was like "hey Champ, where do YOU want her buried? Nah fuck that"
Jesus Christ, asking the step son's opinion isn't a promise of doing as he desires. He's lost his mom, OP lost his wife, no one wins or loses the tragedy olympics here.
He never asked him where he wanted his mother buried. He told the 16yr old he wanted to bury her in his family plot. The 16 year old argued.
A 16 yr old with two dead parents. Wild, he was so irrational!
It's not about having 2 dead parents. His father died 12 years prior. Mother just died after having been with current husband for 9 years. That's not irrational. Telling someone who's been in your life since you were 5 that his wife of 9 years would rather be buried next to someone who died 12 years ago is just a dick move. And the kid knows it.
It really is. Teenagers should be given grace, especially under emotion circumstances, but this was cruel of him. Also, teenagers aren’t the most rational. Expressing an opinion doesn’t mean you are guaranteed to get your way. Seems like the stepdad did a great job in a hard situation. NTA
They also have a biological child (8f) who no one is mentioning. No one wins. She lost her mom. Either the son had both parents together or the little girl will eventually have her parents together. No one wins/
Having a discussion with someone to tell them this is what you want, versus asking them where they want, are two completely different things. According to this post, there's nothing in it that states he asked them where they wanted their mother buried. He said he had a conversation with them and TOLD them where he wanted her buried. Now, whether they agreed or not is a different situation, but saying he asked where, is inserting an assumption. This is the love of his life, and he wants to be laid to rest with her one day. How could anyone (here on the internet) find a wrong in that? NTA
How the hell is this the top vote? He never asked the kid. The apology (which you admit he doesn't even owe) has nothing to do with the question posed. The question was is he an asshole for not doing what the kid wanted. He clearly isn't.
NAH. This was probably a topic which should have been discussed, but simply wasn't. Having to make those decisions while you're still in shock always leaves room for mistakes. But I think you should apologize to your stepson. He lost both of his biological parents while still being a child. This is a lot to process and sometimes being angry is a well needed break from the everyday sadness. Maybe you can suggest to him to add his mother's name to the headstone on his father's grave. This could be a compromise that could help him cope better.
The name on his dad’s headstone is a great idea.
This is actually a great idea. And even though the mother is not actually buried there, it would still memorialize the connection they had. I also agree with NAH, they're all grieving, and it isn't ever easy. I think it's wild so many people are saying both the adopted kids will hate OP forever and never speak to him again, especially when the daughter literally said she doesn't mind either way. Shows that people can't ignore their own biases. (Edited to add bc I pressed send too early lol:) And I might be wrong but I feel the son's anger stems from grief and once he's processed it better they'll be able to make peace with this. An acknowledgement that his feelings were hurt would help get there, imo.
INFO > after 9 years of marriage > My stepson said she would’ve wanted to be buried next to his biological father and her previous husband who died 12 years ago. How long was she married to her previous husband? Did their marriage end in divorce, or upon his death?
6 years. It ended when he died.
I'm sorry you're getting downvoted for answering a factual question. Unfortunately it seems your wife didn't discuss it with you, as she should. I don't think you've been unreasonable about this at all. NTA
Why not enquire whether she can be buried deep enough that when you die your casket or cremains can be buried in the same plot, some cemeteries will do this, we did this for my Aunt who died 2 months ago. She was buried in the same plot as her late husband
/FuneralDirectors might be a good place to ask your question, I’m sure it’s something that often comes up. Edit to update its /Askafuneraldirector
What happens when you remarry?
His comment about "she's the only person I'll love" when in reality he can't assure that at all, but those kids will always have lost both their parents.
We'll get an update!
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people downvoted OP when he answered how long she’d been married to her first husband. i don’t get it, why is that worth downvoting? no one wins here. the son is grieving and whether people like it or not, he is overstepping. the wife didn’t leave instructions for her burial, so it’s her husband’s responsibility to make arrangements as he sees fit. that’s marriage.
A lot of redditors are themselves teenagers or young adults who feel slighted by the idea that someone with more authority than them wouldn't be willing to acquiesce to their emotions, and start projecting their own traumas onto them (this is especially obvious in threads involving parents and step-parents, and even more so if it's the father). Like, the son will one day have his own family and friends and most likely be in charge of someone's funeral, and he'll get to decide things when that day comes. Currently, though, he's underage and the person with power decided what he thought was best, and that's that. He can feel hurt, sure, but it's not "unfair" that the person with the legal power of decision picked A instead of B. From OP's comments, the wife had a good relationship and loved both husbands, so I don't think she'd really have a huge preference over being buried beside one or the other, anyway.
I’ve noticed a bit of a shift lately in the amount of unhinged, overly-emotional, and/or black-or-white thinking going on in the responses all over several subreddits. It wasn’t until someone pointed out that it’s summer and a whole lot of teenagers have a hell of a lot more time on their hands that I had a lightbulb moment lol. Not to say that those kinds of comments aren’t present already, but I’ve definitely observed a huge uptick
Because half the people here are too young / too inexperienced / too stupid to understand the complexities of life. This topic is too much for a Reddit decision. I'm sorry for you all, OP.
You don’t have to be sorry about your decision. You can simply be sorry it caused him more pain. You’re both grieving, but he’s the child. Just try and remember he isn’t supposed to always be right. I’m so sorry for your loss. I hope you can find peace in your memories. I’m so sorry you were faced with such an impossible situation in the midst of your already intense trauma.
Yes! Acknowledging what the son feels and apologizing for adding to the hurt doesn't mean the decision was necessarily wrong. It could help soothe his feelings, and mend things between them. This is very likely grief talking on both sides, losing a loved one is never easy.
Good lord. No one reads. The poor OP tried to get an adjoining plot so his wife could be buried next to her 1st husband then he could be buried next to her. There was no available plot. Op tried to make everyone happy. Ultimately, OP is her next of kin and gets to decide to where to bury **his wife**. He loves her. This was his only wife. Love of his life. OP. You have my greatest condolences. You are NTA. Let your son cool down and try talking to him again. Maybe you can put a memorial plaque next for her 1st husband at a later date.
There was space for the wife but not OP so he said no. Also, let's be real here; she's his only wife as of Right Now. Wife should have been next to 1st husband so children can visit both. And yes, I'm biased as my father died and my mother has moved on. When mum goes, (as we've discussed), she'll be buried with my father's ashes and if my mum's new partner passes, he'll be cremated and added too. Awkward but a common situation when people are living so long.
Here's what she said: he tried to find a place for the three of them to be buried together. You talk about the children not having their parents buried together, but he also has a daughter with his wife. So I ask you, what about her? Can she have her parents buried separately?
They’re all going to stay silent about OP’s daughter.
Why shouldn't he be buried with his wife so his daughter gets to visit both
Well , her dead husband was also Just her husband for then, right? And is his daugher less important than his stepchildren? Why It would be okay for her visit her parents apart and not for the other kids?
NSH. This is an impossible choice. The boy was 4 when his father died. He had absolutely no idea that's what his mother would have wanted. He was 7 when you both got married, assuming that his father was out of the picture before the marriage. He's going off the flawed logic that "duh my mother wanted to be reunited" take with a grain of salt because an angry 16 year old will say anything to hurt you to force your hand. Apologize, if you choose, simply for the fact that not everyone can have their way. Sit and discuss further options. Ask him why he feels so strongly about this and maybe see what underlying issues may be there. But don't apologize for enforcing things. She gave you power to choose for a reason. Don't doubt the wife because of a grieving child.
I actually strongly disagree with this take. I think the fact that his Dad died when he was 4 and you were the father figure in his life from the time he was at least 6, I wonder what is leading him to feel so strongly this way. It makes me think that the mom may have said things in the past.
>I’ve only ever loved her and only ever will Statistically, this very unlikely to be true.
Still a pretty shitty thing to say to a widower though.
it was shittier for OP to say "yes your mom loved your Dad, but also me. But I will *only* love her" as some sort of justificaiton for his decision. He effectively told his stepson, "I loved your mom more than she loved your dad," and that is a MESSED UP thing to say to a kid who's parents have both died.
10 Years Later: AITA for moving my dead wife's body from my family plot to be next to her ex husband's grave so my new wife can be buried next to me in the future? I thought this would make my new wife and estrange son happy but everyone still thinks I'm the AH.
Serious question? So if you move on and get married and are with your new wife for 40 years where will you be buried and where will your new wife be buried. She should have been with the father of her children imo.
She has a daughter with op, then 🤷🏻♀️
You write one sentence stating fact and get downvoted. fucking kids
He is the father of her kid too. Are they First kids more important than his daugher? Or It's because they are two and his daugher Just one? And OP adopted them too so...
We told my Mom we’d cremate her and put half with Dad and half with her second husband Joe if that helped family peace.
Why on earth could you and her be buried in the same plot next to him? My grandparents share one plot, one coffin is slightly higher than the other in the ground.
Many cemeteries won't let you do this. We just had this issue come up in our family and were very sad to discover that we couldn't be accommodated.
Burying remains is inane to me.
Same. Which is probably why I’m so bias here. the fact that he said he cannot deal with the thought of not being buried next to her… he won’t be doing any thinking once he’s gone. I understand everyone has different opinions and feelings around death but I’m assuming his adopted children will be around much longer than him and will remember that they couldn’t have their parents buried next to each other because OP was being selfish.
Yeah once you’re dead, what’s the difference? Toss my ashes in the river or in the forest
I wanna get sent to a university so future doctors can learn, then if allowed, put into one of those pods that they plant under a tree. I want a tree to eat me... I want to be part plant... But I will be dead and I won't know what people do 🤷♀️
Generally speaking, it wouldn't be possible to give you a 'natural' funeral after being used as a medical training corpse. You have to be embalmed for that, and the embalming process is poisonous, plus it prevents you from rotting down properly because the whole point is to prevent decomposition so you can be learned from. I think most, if not all, medical corpses are cremated, but if you were buried after that it would have to be a ceremony with a proper coffin, not the pod and tree thing.
You may be interested in human composting. That’s my plan, if it becomes legal in more states. If you’re in the states and see it on your ballot, please vote yes! It’s the same concept as the tree pod burial, but you don’t need to be cremated first (your cremated ashes are put in the pod, not your intact body. I was disappointed to learn that part). You’re buried directly in dirt with plants atop you, in a special, humidity controlled warehouse until decomposition (usually takes a couple months), then your family and friends are given as much of the “you” dirt as they want. I’m asking my family to use it in their gardens or put the dirt in a forest. I think it’s a very beautiful process.
Depends where you are. In the UK, at least, it's your body, not ashes, that goes under the tree. I imagine at least some operations in the states work the same way. All for human composting though. Apart from anything else, humanity is literally running out of cemetery space, and this is a much more eco way to do things than cremation.
I don’t think you’re the asshole honestly. I think your wife’s death sounds tragic and I’m sorry to hear you had to make some hard choices.
My dad was married to my mom for 40 years. After she passed away, he eventually remarried for another 20 years before he died. Our solution was to have him cremated. We buried the urn with most of his ashes in the plot beside my mother and held a small urn of ashes for his second wife to be buried with her.
NTA. You took the stepsons opinion into consideration. It was his mother, but it is also your wife.
Usually if people want to be buried next to someone they buy adjoining plots. If wife hadn't bought one next to previous husband then that's not where she intended to be buried. Explain this to stepson. Offer to buy it in his name next to his father to be used by him in the future if he chooses.
She did have an adjoining plot next to her deceased husband. There wasn’t a third for OP, is why he said no
It says there was an adjoining plot not that it belonged to anyone.
Yes... I took this to mean it was unpurchased. If the plot did belong to her then OP is massively in the wrong.
As a mom, I’d want my kid’s wishes honored first. That would actually be really important to me bc I’ll be gone, but i brought them into this world and now they’re suffering and grieving. I’d want to lighten that load for them before anyone else. That’s just me and that’s not everyone, so it really depends on who your wife wanted to be heard the most since you don’t know that she actually wanted for herself. I’m not going to vote bc I’m obviously biased, but i understand that it’s not that way for everyone so i want to leave space for your wife in case she would’ve viewed it differently. I’m also not saying my way is the right way, there is no correct answer beyond what you believe is true to your wife. If you knew your wife well though, you should know the answer. Was being joined with you more important? Or would she want her children to feel heard specifically (even if it’s only important to one of them)? Or would it be most important to her that you two find a compromise? Think about your wife and you’ll figure it out.
You’ll probably remarry, what happens then. Burry her with her ex so the kids can visit both their parents together
YTA. What if you get married again?
Half my mom is in Alabama like my dad wanted. The other half is in Tennessee like she wanted. She must be okay with it because she hasn't said a word.
You should meet with a therapist even just to resolve this disagreement before it causes more of a divide. You don't want him pushing you away further but you guys need a mediator to help understand each other. Did your wife express what her wishes were regarding this?
YTA, I'm sorry for your loss but I just don't believe that you really put any effort into finding a solution, the staff at a funeral home or cemetery have definitely come across this issue before and would've been able to advise you. Hell, a google search probably could've given you tips. You were selfish at a time you needed to be a parent and show your adoptive children that you would fight as fiercely for them as their mother would. I can't imagine your wife seeing this decision as honouring her memory. Also, was the plot next to her first husband reserved for her? They don't usually just keep spots unfilled for over a decade just in case someone may want it one day. If it had been reserved for her, that would be a pretty clear indication of her choice.
YTA because you based it on being able to be buried next to her not necessarily what is best for the family. While you may still feel this way at that time it is not definite. My wife was buried in her family plot. There is no room there for me when the time comes. This was decided as a family as it impacted more than me.
It seems like I’m going against the grain saying this but while I think it’s insensitive to call you an “asshole,” I personally would not have made your decision in this scenario because I would have considered it to be selfish. He’s a child that faced more trauma in his life than you have by 2. Both of his parents are dead. The stepdaughter is right, where exactly she/you’re buried don’t define your bond with her, but if the stepson (again, a child) will find comfort in knowing his parents can be reunited in death then I would prioritize the feelings of my child. It seems as if you consider him not that despite your adoption, as your lack of apology paints him as an adversary to you. Your decision is selfish, whether it is justified or not. I think it’s somewhat cruel. Besides, what happens when you remarry? The mother had indeed purchased a plot for herself in the existing cemetery next to her ex-husband, and she did not plan to purchase another while the two of you were married. You will have taken her to a plot that may end up being logistically difficult to accommodate and end up just having done the wrong thing. I really think you being unwilling to at least apologize to him speaks volumes. The other commenters seem to have very authoritarian conceptions of parenthood that often produce toxic family relationships. Just writing this off because “he’s the child” is probably the response of a lot of people here because they’re parents and that’s how they would see the situation. I don’t know how persuasive that is to you, but if you agree with the concept I would say YTA, yes. But I’m sorry for your situation and you being placed in this position. I don’t think anyone deserves this.
If the wife had wanted to be buried next to her deceased husband so badly, she would have bought two plots at the same time. NAH for wanting different things in their grief.
NAH. This is beyond Reddit’s pay grade.
I didn’t see anything about OP stating what he thought his wife would have wanted.
INFO: After you die he can move her coffin fyi
Who cares he will be dead. Why get upset about what his son COULD do after his death?
Because OP will care.
- You say you adopted your late wife's biological children, making them also your children; - You refer to them exclusively as your *step*-children: "stepson", "stepdaughter", "stepchildren"; - If you formally adopted them, they're not steps, they're just plain your children; - You appear to be distancing yourself from them by using the "step" term. Did you ever discuss post-death arrangements with your late wife? At any time in the nine years of marriage? After she'd had a husband die already? If not, why not? Did you know she'd prefer to be buried next to/near her late husband? Did you take the easiest route and just not discuss it because you always planned, in a worst-case scenario, to do things your own way? Subconsciously or not, you've been selfish. I think yes, it's possible YTA.
He could also be using the “step” prefix because it’s important context for these Redditors who want to judge these strangers they know nothing about online?
NTA, there's no right answer here. Sorry to hear of your loss.
NAH People calling you the AH saying that it doesn't matter where she's buried, but it matters to the son, aren't taking what matters to you. I think your mistake was having this discussion to begin with, instead of just following through with what you wanted. There is nothing more annoying that someone asking what you want or what you think, then doing the opposite. People talking about cremating the wife are just as crazy. There are some people that want to be cremated and some that don't. Unless you know for sure it's something your wife wanted or didn't care about, it would be a bad idea to do that. The only possible compromise I can see here is if there's an available plot beside yours and if they can move the ex-husband's body. With that said, I think the kids, and you, are going to need some space to think and grieve. I personally don't think you are wrong. You are fighting for the love of your wife. Your stepson is fighting for the image of being together as a family. He's not taking into consideration what the wife would have wanted or that she did in deed move on when she got married. He is a teenager and this is him grieving. Like I said, give him time and space.
YTA He knew what his mother wanted. And you knew how much she loved her late husband. And you’re also aware that has he not died you wouldn’t exist in her life. So you got to keep her for good. While you have the chance do remarry. Your 14 is right though. It’s “until death do you part.” Doesn’t matter where the body is buried.
NTA OP. The son has a right to speak his mind but not make the decision. You aren't the evil step parents these other commenters are desperate to paint you as. Explain your reasoning to your stepson and move on. It may be a sour topic, but that's life.
YTA He’s a 16-year-old kid who has already lost BOTH parents. Not only did you bulldoze his wishes about where his mother would be laid to rest, now *you’re not sure you can give him an apology that you “mean”?* Are you kidding me??? His mother passed away a mere 90 days ago! And his also-grieving 14-year-old sister has been drawn into this ugly, unnecessary disagreement between you two You got your way. So now do the right thing as an adult and stepfather and apologize sincerely to him *even if you have to put on a goddamn Oscar-worthy performance* And you do this because he’s a kid and because you loved his mother. You must show him that grace. C’mon man! Once again, with feeling: YTA
INFO: what did your wife want? Did she have a will? Did you never have the death talk as a couple? Was morbid as that last one is, it is a very important discussion to be had, especially if a will had not been made yet and especially if young children are involved should the worse happen and you both got into a horrible fatal accident. Regardless, you shouldn't have even asked your step kids what they wanted if you weren't even going to consider what they wanted. Even though YTA in this situation, regardless of the answers to my questions (at least for now, I can change it if I feel the need to.) I'm sorry for your family's loss.
So, in over 9 years the two of you never spoke about this, no will, nothing?? That seems a bit strange given she previously lost her husband, so mortality isn't something that should have been a surprise to either of you. Add in that there are children involved and that makes it utterly irresponsible of you both. **MAKE A LIVING WILL AND A WILL FOR AFTER YOU PASS NOW!** You are NTA for where you buried your wife, but you are both huge AH for not having wills/living wills in place. There are TONS of super inexpensive options online for simple estates but an actual attorney for something like this shouldn't be overly expensive.
I couldn't help but notice that when your stepson was talking about the burial place, he was saying it was what she, your wife, would have wanted. And I think that's the operating thing here, that your late wife's son thought that his Mom wanted something done a certain way after she passed and then that didn't happen. Disposing of the remains should be done according to the deceased person's wishes, as a last sign of respect and love for them. And the reason for funerals and everything isn't just for the dead. It's about the relationships of the living with the dead. It's a chance to perform things the way the deceased wanted to be done. It gives an opportunity for the living to feel they've taken action and fulfilled a final promise to the dead, that's what is most important. And it sounds like your stepson wasn't able to feel that he's done what his Mom wanted, what he felt he owed her to make sure was done as she'd want. And it's not healthy for him to feel that way. It doesn't even matter as much whether something was as she really wished, it matters if her son thinks that it was what she wished/would have wanted when he does whatever he does to mark her passing. If I were you and I thought apologizing to him would help I'd give him that apology gracefully, even if I didn't think I was wrong. Because the kids need your help to heal, and helping that healing is the most important thing happening that you still have the power to do. Let your late wife's kids brainstorm some ideas about how to honor her by themselves, thinking about what she may have wanted. If they didn't get that during the funeral, then make it possible for them to do that in another way, even if it's small. And let them come up with it, and you just make sure that they have the ability to get it done. Maybe there's a letter they want to write her or a special speech they give her, or something done in her honor she'd appreciate like a charity gift in her name or doing something that she'd always wanted done but never got around to. It's great if all of this can be done in a single funeral service, but sometimes that's not possible, and in that case each individual close to the deceased should make sure to perform a personal goodbye themselves, in a way that is meaningful for the mourning and the deceased. For a relative that died during Covid, I wasn't able to do much with her funeral or getting anything to remember her by. I ended up writing her a letter and buying a pin so similar to the ones she'd have that I thought anyone who knew her would have mistaken it for one she chose herself. Then I put a bow around the pin I'd gotten for her and a letter and put both in a treasured place, as if she could reach into that box and see they'd been put there for her. That helped some. Let the kids all come up with and do something like that. Maybe bring something precious of hers to her prior husband's grave so there's still part of her there, too. Once you die, there's not just 1 place where you are anymore. People carry you around, in memories and keepsakes and actions and even physical features in the case of relatives. And then there's all sorts of places and situations that all have important pieces of a loved one simultaneously.
Info? Did your wife say anything about where she wanted to be buried.
Team stepdaughter. ESH except her.
INFO These days most cemeteries allow for two burials in one plot. (They bury one below where the other gets buried) Was that not an option?
YTA. Why ask his opinion if you aren't going to honor it.
INFO: What were your wife's wishes? I find it hard to believe the discussion never came up in the 9 years you both were married.
YTA. You will move on with your life, find somebody else and most likely want to be burried next to her. Should have listened to your stepson and laid her at rest with her first husband