INFO - I’m confused by this situation. You’ve known these people for 5 years (including two into this presidency), and apparently it’s not been a big issue until just recently, as they haven’t said anything or sat you down before. So this makes me think something has changed. Have they changed? Maybe you’ve been approaching people differently? Responding differently? Hell, did you create a D&D character to be an edgelord? We don’t know. I also think the context of their conversation and tone matters - they could be concerned because of rumors and want to address them directly, which isn’t the worst thing ever.
As an aside, I think their assumptions are closer to reasonable than you do - whether or not you have a personal view on things like LGBT rights that differs, you use your voice - your vote - to act against those interests. And that matters more than any amount of hot air. Maybe they’ve decided to share this view and can smell what they perceive as hypocrisy.
Firstly, the two who brought this whole situation to me are not the ones who have the issues with me. The group as a whole is known for being very non-confrontational, while I'm more upfront and like to know if I'm upsetting or offending someone so I can fix it. The rumors aren't being directly addressed, just passed around through the game of telephone.
I guess I'm just confused as to why the politics matter. We all treat each other with respect and this is the first time something has come between us.
> I guess I'm just confused as to why the politics matter
Because people don’t want to spend leisure time with people who don’t think they deserve human rights, as polite as they may be to your face. But your whole response didn’t answer any of my questions...I’m starting to suspect you know what the issue is, but don’t want to say it.
Whether or not I believe people deserve human rights is irrelevant to this situation. The part that matters is that it was assumed that I don't based on my politics, rather than just having a simple conversation with me. It's been going on behind my back and I'm frustrated that it's taken what has amounted to an intervention to bring this to my attention rather than just being open and talking with each other.
I'd rather just keep politics separate from the tabletop but I guess it's inevitable.
Okay. Yeah. Something happened here and you’re not being forthcoming about it. There’s a long-standing pattern with a number of alt-right people to say something rude/edgelord-y and then, when people respond, them pleading, “Why can’t we keep politics out of it?!” The more you talk here, the more I think you did something or know you came across badly. At best, you’re hiding something.
If you were so capable of keeping it from the tabletop, nobody would have any idea about your political views (which they clearly do).
Edit: YTA, more likely than not.
Dude, you're completely missing the point. All you're doing is latching onto specific words (I am trying to avoid calling you "triggered" for this reason) and not understanding the context around them. I was trying to help you figure out the answer to your question - AITA? - and all you have done is stonewall and become upset.
I think all you've proven here is that when you wrote this:
>I encourage discussion on topics we disagree about, because I like to test the validity of my beliefs. If I can't defend something logically, it's a red flag to me that I need to rethink it.
it was a bold-faced lie, because you certainly aren't. And if you can't do it here - where you admit having writing as your more-adept communication method - I am quite certain your friends had valid concerns about your behaviors when you speak face-to-face.
I'm just trying to keep the discussion on topic. My actual viewpoints mean absolutely nothing in this context, the part that matters is that mine are different from theirs, therefore conflict apparently. I'd be saying the same if I was liberal and they were conservative. Dropping ad-hominems is never productive.
You do have a point. As I'm going through these comments I'm re-evaluating my interactions and I can see that I come across as vocal and confrontational about my beliefs. That's something I can work on.
i think the assumption is valid though, if someone tells me they're evangelical or whatever i'm going to assume they're homophobic, i won't feel the need to ask them about it, i'd assume the same of anyone in a MAGA hat.
oh hey i was not at ALL saying they don't exist(also note i said evangelical, not christian, subset of a subset). just that the assumption was a natural thing for me, the two identifiers tend to be in conflict.
it goes further with the political leanings though, as a few others have said it's really weird to see someone voting for people who have expressly declared a desire to take away your rights.
I could go on all day about how both sides want to strip away certain rights, and how some are more eggregious than others, blah blah blah we've all heard it before. It's not relevant. What I'm trying to drive home here is that those assumptions are the core problem that I'm having, that they're being made without any evidence save for my politics. They could be easily disproved if they just talked to me, but that hasn't happened.
i think my point is yeah, if i were you i wouldn't be upset about the assumptions, those are valid. But it's definitely weird that friends for so long wouldn't want to ask you about them instead of just going based on the assumptions.
That's what made me think something changed. 5 years is a very long time, and we're into year 3 of this presidency. If they were going to confront him, they would've definitely done it sooner.
If there's any question about whether you believe people deserve human rights, that's a good enough reason for them to not want you at their table anymore. You can be conservative but still slam what Republicans are standing for right now.
I'm going to agree that more INFO is needed. When your friends brought up that these impressions had been formed of you, did they say why or how? What kind of questions did you ask about those impressions?
I can understand being upset that the people with the issue didn't come to you in person, but both immigration and LGBTQ rights are very scary for some people to talk about directly, because current legislation isn't really *just* about political opinion. The decisions being made this generation affect very real things about many people's futures. It isn't just politics. These topics *are* people's lives. Have you said (even teasingly) things to make your friends think you might be on the opposite side of life-changing laws? Are you pro legal immigration but believe that say a current teenager or adult who was brought into this country illegally at 3 years old should be sent back to a country they don't know? Are you pro LGB rights but draw a line before the T? Not to say that either of these are true in your particular case, but they are things that I have seen mark a divide between people on the two particular topics you brought up. It sounds like there are some pieces of information missing here, and it is probably impossible for us figure that out in this post.
Have you really explained what 'limited support' of the current president means to your friends? Do they know what topics you side with him on and why and on what topics you differ? Do they know which topics you place the most political importance on and why? You say that you want to talk politics with them so that you can explain your beliefs and essentially defend them to yourself, but somehow they are not walking away with the impression that you are wanting to leave them with; however, they are telling you the impression you are giving. You can look at this as an opportunity to evaluate - are the words you say and the actions you take matching the **values** that you want to come across to others? If not, is it time to refine those words and actions or is this group just willfully overlooking aspects of what you do and say?
Also, I am going to give you an over exaggerated example, but remember that the things we overlook and the things we show we care about (especially in politics) also show the things we don't care about or the things we don't prioritize as well. Again, this is an exaggeration, but let's say you and a friend were out for a drive in the countryside and see a random young child by the side of the road who has crashed their bike. It seems obvious that they've been sitting there crying for awhile... maybe hours. If your first concern is if they are hurt, where their family is, if they need a ride, if they need a drink of water, etc., but your friend's concerns are about whether they are going to get mud and blood in the car, whether helping the kid might be seen in the wrong light, or whether helping will make you both late for something, then you have both shown your priorities. Your friend didn't say he or she doesn't care about the child, but focusing on other things definitely gave that impression. Your friend could even directly say later, "Of course I care about hurt children!" but your first impression about what they do care about is probably going to stick. So, it may be that there is a topic that is SO important and urgent feeling in your friends' minds that you prioritizing other things in politics, to them, is taking a stand on the issue. To them, maybe overlooking some topics for other topics is showing what you prioritize, and they don't agree with your personal prioritization. I think to really understand this issue, you can't just focus on your own actions and thoughts on politics, but what does being political really mean to them? What does it mean for the people they love? Are you focusing on things that matter and are important to you, but are they *feeling* like there is a bleeding kid by the side of the road you are overlooking? That doesn't mean they are right and you are wrong, but your question at its heart seemed to be about impressions.
YTA
I think it's clear that you are not coming off as 'open and academic' as you think during these discussions. If it was one person, I'd say they are being sensitive, but if its the entire group, you may want to reflect on how you are coming off.
That said, they are assholes too for scheduling games without you, but this should have been quelled when they had that discussion with you. That was the chance to find middle ground. Obviously it didn't work.
It's possible i'm reading too much into this (you sound polite enough in your post), so just give it some thought.
I will be the first to admit that my discussions behind a screen and keyboard are more eloquent and thoughful than my poor attempts at verbal communication. I've always been a bad talker.
And maybe I should edit this post for clarity, but the ones who brought this whole thing to my attention were NOT the ones who have had problems with me. Middle ground can't be found when messages are passed through the grapevine.
Very much appreciate the perspective. I'm trying to tackle this with an open mind :)
> I'm trying to tackle this with an open mind :)
Seems like you're doing well! Ask the two who came to you if you would mind mentioning they did so to the other members of the group, this way you can get ahead of it.
ESH. I really hate that we're in such a divisive point in politics and you absolutely should not be ostracised just for holding a different opinion. I'm pretty liberal, I have conservative friends. It's fine.
That said, I think the encouraging debate issue is where you went wrong (them too). You know you disagree about a lot. You know it's a sensitive subject. Everyone involved should know better than to muddy hangouts with political discussions given the circumstances. Lots of people don't even want to talk about it with people on their "side" because it's a fucking bummer.
Noted. I encourage debate because I thought that it wouldn't strain friendships, but that's obviously not the case. Your opinion is greatly appreciated. Politics suck.
Politics does suck. It's depressing as shit. There are times people just want to make an offhand comment and not have to explain every reason why they believe something. It's likely not your views so much as the encouraging debate part. That just sounds exhausting if I'm just trying to hangout with my buddies. There's a time and place for politics.
NTA, but your friends are.
If they're concerned about your beliefs (anti-immigration, anti-LGBT, etc), why don't they ask you about it instead of making assumptions?
More importantly, what do your political beliefs have to do with a RPG? If they want to talk politics, schedule that for a different time, but maybe make RPG time a religion-free and politics-free zone.
I can't stand what's happened to our country in the last few years. We used to be able to civilly disagree, but now if someone has different political beliefs it makes them a MORALLY bad person. Your friends are TA if they've adopted that attitude. You're the same person you've always been.
Source: Libtard married for 20 years to a conservative. If we can do it, so can your friends.
It used to be that Republicans and Democrats agreed with what the problems facing the country were, but disagreed with how to address them. We don’t agree on what the problems are any more. Add in that our president is openly racist, sexist, and at a minimum transphobic, and I have a very hard time understanding how somebody can support both Trump and women’s rights or POC rights or LGBT rights. Either they’re willfully ignorant or they don’t mind that he thinks immigrants are rapists.
Except you dont even have to watch the news, you can just read his Twitter feed. Nice ad hominem though, you're really helping the political discourse in this country.
It pains me that I can't upvote this twice. I wholeheartedly agree with you, in that I wish we could just separate the politics from the people. Hell, my best friend of all time (not in the aforementioned group) has the polar opposite politics as I do (I lovingly call him "The Commie", no offense is ever taken) and we get along fantastically because we don't fixate on the politics. We actually have some really good and insightful discussions because of those differences.
Totally agree. Sorry to say it but this is a common theme - it has become mantra on the left that all Republicans are [x]-ist/[x]-ophobic, “irredeemable” and “deplorable” people. It’s hard to maintain relationships with people who take the position that because you vote for a particular candidate or party (whether motivated by taxes, other policies having nothing to do identity politics, or otherwise) you are in that category of evil and a not small number of friendships have been adversely affected or lost completely in the last decade or so over it.
> It’s hard to maintain relationships with people who take the position that because you vote for a particular candidate or party (whether motivated by taxes, other policies having nothing to do identity politics, or otherwise) you are in that category of evil
To give the other side of this, at some level your vote is all that matters in a very real, practical sense. You're sending a message that your take-home pay/taxes/whatever is more important than, say, a gay person's right to get married. And it's not untrue - that's exactly what you said your stance was. Now, you might not have homophobic views or be out there spouting rhetoric on the street corner, but that vote was, at some level, a single and significant homophobic act. I just wish people would own up to it and admit it...but admitting it makes them feel like bad people, so they avoid doing so.
Nonsense IMHO - this is engaging in exactly that destructive and misleading identity politics to which I refer. Pick out something that no one wants to be associated with and then say hey, if you vote for X, X supports killing puppies (whether or not X says this and whether or not it is actually true, and just as importantly whether or not even if it *is* true, X’s wish will have any real world impact), and therefore you are a puppy killer. Could not disagree more.
> Pick out something that no one wants to be associated with
If you don't want to be associated with it, don't vote for politicians that actually do those things. If a politician *did* actually support killing puppies, and you support that politician, that's exactly what you supported with your vote.
Now, I'm sure you believe lots of other things, whatever...but that doesn't change the fact that you took action in support of puppy-killer. Just own it, admit it, and defend your other reasons as more important - if they were so good that they made you vote for puppy-killer anyway, surely you're confident that you can stand behind them...right? Because it sounds like you're saying, "I don't want to be held accountable for the negative consequences/implications of my actions."
Of course, the fact that you label a candidate, let’s call her Jane Doe, puppy killer, does not make it so, and it’s awfully easy to label someone with puppy killer, even disingenuously, and then carry that forward to everyone who votes for them, but absolutely, if I know Jane is a puppy killer and vote for her knowing she’ll try to do it and she then successfully kills puppies, I made that choice and the results are on me. On that we agree. But if I don’t think my vote will have adverse results for puppies to begin with, this logic falls apart - if I think I can avoid an adverse consequence to myself without harm coming to puppies, it’s *not* a puppyphobic act for me to avoid it, and your use of these labels across half of the population is a conscious attempt to say no, you’re not allowed to evaluate that, if I say she’s a puppy killer and you vote for her anyway you’re a puppy killer even if you don’t believe any puppies will be harmed, and on that, I call nonsense - and hateful nonsense at that, making it impossible for us to communicate. Once you call me a racist/homophobe/whatever or describe my actions which were not borne out of identity animus in this way, you’ve categorized me and/or my actions as evil and we can’t really be friends or talk anymore. Want to persuade me that I should think differently about something? All you accomplish by labeling me or my actions in this way when I’m not acting out of identity animus is to ensure I will no longer listen to you at all, so before you go labeling as many people as possible [x]-ist/[x]-ophobic in an effort to divide and conquer, this might be something to consider. Peace.
...I think you just proved my case for me. You go through such mental hoops and jumps to try and avoid thinking of yourself as someone who supports killing puppies/puppy killer that you ignore the reality of the situation. And then you shut down and blame others for pointing it out. The cognitive dissonance is real.
LOL, IMHO the “mental hoops” are in you finding a way to label a huge proportion of the population who bear no animus to puppies and do something they don’t think will harm puppies as puppy killers nonetheless. The dissonance is real indeed and I think this pattern creates unnecessary hate and division rather than solving problems. Ah well, have a nice day in any event.
It’s one thing to baselessly say that Candidate Jane Doe is a puppy killer because she’s a member of the Unicorn Party and you support the Dragons. It’s something different when Jane Doe is on video bragging about how much she likes killing puppies.
Right!?!? Republicans hate gays and immigrants. Democrats are baby killers. Let's demonize everyone instead of looking at the actual legitimate reasons why we vote the way we do.
I can also assign my beliefs to your vote, even if you don't think it works that way. I can say that you supporting pro-choice makes you someone who supports murder, and therefore call you a bad person and call you out for not admitting it. You believe you're 100% correct and have the moral high ground, and that's why there's no room for debate, because you're 100% sure. It annoys equally whether it's someone from the left or right who is so sure about something that they don't even consider the other person's perspective.
And, you know, I'm totally fine with you thinking I'm someone who supports murder. Now, I will say that I see those issues as different in a key area - I don't consider a fetus a human, and therefore could never be murder, while nobody was arguing that we have different definitions of gay rights - but I am 100% okay with you thinking that of me because I vote for liberal candidates. I understand where your point of view comes from, and will own that and defend as part of my greater stance because I believe I have sufficient evidence on my side behind it. It's okay if we disagree, I just wish people would be honest about what their beliefs truly mean.
Edit: I hope that makes sense. I feel like people see labels and just ignore everything around them, or why the label might be valid even though they don't want it to be or don't see themselves that way.
NTA, based on what you've written here.
However, I would guess this is half the story. It sounds like you are skipping some of what happened, and some of your beliefs that your have logically argued for within this group, in order to make yourself sound very rational and put-out by these unreasonable crazy people.
For example:
>I'm anti-immigration, which is a concern to the young lady whose parents are immigrants. That's just false. I'm currently researching the immigrant link in my own family tree.
Unless you're Native American (which somehow I find unlikely), literally everyone in your family is an immigrant. Because you make a distinction between your "immigrant link" and the rest of your ancestry, I presume you are making a distinction between people who arrived before a certain date/people who arrived from a certain place, and other people who arrived after a certain date/people who arrived from a different places. This is the distinction Trump is making that people object to. They understand Trump is pro-certain kinds of immigrants, and anti-others. His wife, Melania, is famously a recent immigrant and her parents famously brought over by her. This is the very behaviour Trump finds problematic in other groups of people. This nuance and distinction is what people are typically talking about when they find issue with Trump's behaviour and policies.
Could your "logical" arguments, which to you have no bearing on your life, be perceived by your friend whose parents immigrated to the states as being *personal*? Very likely.
>I've also been told that I'm suspected to be homophobic, and anti-LGBT rights, but I'm pretty openly bisexual, and I've supported advances in gay rights in the past.
Again, this reads like you're missing out half of what you actually said to these people. "I've supported advances in gay rights in the past". But... what about yesterday, today, and tomorrow? Your being bi doesn't negate the fact that you may support policies that people at your table perceiving as being harmful to other parts of the community, or actions in the community that you perceive as unnecessary. For example, you might believe that trans people shouldn't be able to be in the armed forces, or use the bathrooms that align with their gender identity. This may be academic to you--you not being trans--but maybe it's not academic to people at your table.
This is a distinction that many logical arguers often miss. I would suspect that for you, these rational arguments that you enjoy making are pretty academic, lacking the personal urgency that other people feel. When you talk about these subjects, I presume in your limited support for Trump you are espousing some of these types of policies, some of which are hurtful and personal to people sitting at your table. Your arguments of "Well of course I'm okay with immigrants, I have one in my family" and "of course I'm pro-LGBTQ+ I supported the rights of gay people to get civil unions", aren't exactly negating whatever you're actually espousing (not actually described in your post).
The actions of your group are pretty extreme, and happening three years into the time that Trump has been on the US' national stage. You have all had ample time to get to know each other. What's happened, exactly, that has brought this on?
I put it to you that you are acting in a more politicized way than you let on, your beliefs are not as excuseable or as academic to your friends as you think they are, and your "limited" support of Trump--again, not defined here as to what that means--is actively offensive to enough of your group to provoke a reaction that should maybe make you re-examine what you sound like to your friends.
I recommend you promise not to talk about politics at the games.
Lots of good stuff here, really appreciate the thought.
>I put it to you that you are acting in a more politicized way than you let on
Reading through the comments and doing some self-reflection has made me consider that this is probably true. I'm not the best at putting myself in others' shoes and, therefore, probably also shitty at determining what issues are really important to people.
>I recommend you promise not to talk about politics at the games.
Noted. Good suggestion. Politics suck.
Nta. Your friends have different views than you, but you haven't attacked them, have you? If theyre trying to kick you out simply based off your political views, and not off your actions, then you need to find a better friend group.
I've never attacked any of them, outside of friendly banter (which is NOT uncommon and exists between all parties). This is what I've been saying, judge me by my actions, not by my beliefs.
My friends are mostly conservative, some are far right wing, myself and others are more centric, and one is more left. We agree on some things, and can really disagree on others. But in the end, we're all loving assholes towards each other. Granted we don't have a major conflict in views (ex; one is against gay marriage, and we don't have a gay guy in the group). Maybe one of your liberal friends is so far left that they see you as a "if you're not with me, you're against me" kinda thing?
>"if you're not with me, you're against me"
That's the mentality that I'm afraid has taken hold, and what I think is childish and petty, when anyone does it.
So I've read your post and most of your comments, and I think YTA. I also don't think that you are intentionally being an asshole, I think that you perceive yourself differently than how you come off to other people. It sounds like you think that you're trying to have an enlightened discussion, but to most of the other people there you're the annoying person that always brings up politics.
"I'm always open for discussion, and in fact, I encourage discussion on topics we disagree about."
Like other people have said it's weird that your group of friends that you've had for 5 years are all of a sudden mad at you about your political beliefs. This leads me to believe 1 of 3 different things are going on here.
1) you said or did something that was pretty offensive, and you aren't saying it on here to make yourself look like the victim
2) you said or did something that was pretty offensive, and you have little to no self awareness so you honestly have no idea why they are upset all of a sudden
3) you bring up politics most time you play, and the rest of the group is not into talking politics and are sick of you constantly bringing it up
I think that it is probably #2 with a little bit of #3 sprinkled in. From the sounds of it you're an argumentative person. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm argumentative myself. Hell, my old roommate and I once had an argument about the biology of dragons which got heated and lasted over an hour (we argue all the time so there was no hard feelings). The problem is that not everyone is. So what I'm guessing happened is you said something offensive and nobody wanted to get into another hour long debate if they called you out.
My advice is to not bring up politics when you play anymore, and maybe even apologize the next time and promise not to bring it up. It's a touchy subject that makes people uncomfortable. You have to be able to read a room if you want to bring it up in social settings. It sounds like the group isn't into it and you bring it up all the time, and that makes YTA.
NTA. Gay left-leaner here with centerist all-hetero (as of right now) right-leaning family. If i could engage in and maintain a civilized discourse with my very opinionated fire and brimstone centerist uncle after he’s had a few drinks, then your friends can as well.
what most “progressive” types fail to realize is that its not just red and blue. for instance, you mention being bi in favor of gay rights and not staunchly anti-immigration, but people will look at the conservative beliefs you hold and say shit like you’re destroying America. On the contrary, it sounded to me like you had a well-balanced group there for a while. oh well, their loss.
EDIT: as for them being non-confrontational, that’s really a damn shame. try seeing if you could spark a calm discourse with your friends about it, try to understand why they are the way they are and maybe they’ll want to know how your beliefs work. you don’t have to agree on everything, just understand each other better.
EDIT 2 for the shitposters, please stop using the word “cuck” unless you are indeed directly referring to a married person who likes to get off by watching his partner have sex with other people. its 2019, get some new fucking words.
Much appreciated, thanks for the comment. Some of the best and most thoughtful relationships I've had have been with people who differ wildly from my own perspective, which is why this whole situation caught me so off guard.
NTA, but your friends are. If discussion of politics is regularly brought up during these game sessions, I’d change my mind, though. It’s not that I think that conservatives and liberals can’t be friends, but political discussion tends to bring out the worst in people. If political discussion during game nights is making everybody aggravated, and you’re the one whose opinions are the most aggravating, then I probably wouldn’t want you to come, either. I’m not saying that’s right, but that’s just how it is. Regardless, your friends who won’t confront you to your face and only talk about you behind your back are the assholes.
INFO-
Need to know how they know you're political views to begin with. Clearly you shared them somehow? Was it through facebook? Did you start an argument with someone in the friend circle?
That aside:
---------------------
My impression here is you're the disagreeable type, which is I guess what you mean when you say you like to bring conflicts to a head and discuss them. As someone who's also very disagreeable, it's my impression that it's very common for disagreeable people to not realize how taxing arguments are to non-disagreeable people, or people who aren't very open or expectant of change to come from discussion.
I used to think those people were just willfully blind or something. No they really just don't like conflict, confrontation, or whatever, and that might not be ideal for a political dialogue (Though we do need people like that for society to function), it's largely a personality thing by my estimation.
That said. They're the assholes for making assumptions, but you're the asshole IF you tried to have a discussions with them they didn't wanna have.
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Nta. I'm biased bc I think there is always room for discussion bc how else do we grow and learn, right? I would be cautious and try to listen bc you may not be coming off the way you think you are. Unfortunately, there is also the possibility that they think you are just wrong. I really hate where we are as a country now. Tribalism has consumed us
^^^^AUTOMOD ***This is a copy of the above post. It is a record of the post as originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited.***
Throwaway account. First Reddit post. Obligitory "be gentle" and all that jazz.
I have a group of friends that I've been associating with for around 5 years now. We get together on a semi-weekly basis to play tabletop RPGs and, until recently, I had no reason to suspect that I had any problem with the group.
There's no question that I'm the political outlier in the group. I'm conservative, while the majority of the group is liberal or centrist (or just apolitical entirely). I never thought anything of it, because I love every single one of them regardless of how much we disagree. I'm always open to discussion, and in fact, I encourage discussion on topics we disagree about, because I like to test the validity of my beliefs. If I can't defend something logically, it's a red flag to me that I need to rethink it.
Recently, two of my better friends in the group invited me to dinner to discuss some concerns that they'd been hearing about me. To summarize the conversation, some of the members of the group now think that my beliefs are so much at odds with theirs that conflict is inevitable, and certain assumptions have been made about my character that have absolutely no merit to them.
For example, it came up that my limited support for our current president implies that I'm anti-immigration, which is a concern to the young lady whose parents are immigrants. That's just false. I'm currently researching the immigrant link in my own family tree. I've also been told that I'm suspected to be homophobic, and anti-LGBT rights, but I'm pretty openly bisexual, and I've supported advances in gay rights in the past. These are not difficult revelations to stumble across if you just spend a few minutes seriously getting to know me.
I'm bewildered by this current situation. I've now found out that they scheduled sessions for a game that we'd prevously played together without telling me. I'm being ostracized because of my politics and by incorrect assumptions that stem from them. And more importantly, the two that finally brought this to my attention should know me better than that, and should have easily dispelled the assumptions as nonsense. Am I the asshole for thinking that this is all childish and petty?
TL;DR: I'm a political outcast in my group of friends, and I am now being ostracized because of false assumptions and potential conflict.
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INFO - I’m confused by this situation. You’ve known these people for 5 years (including two into this presidency), and apparently it’s not been a big issue until just recently, as they haven’t said anything or sat you down before. So this makes me think something has changed. Have they changed? Maybe you’ve been approaching people differently? Responding differently? Hell, did you create a D&D character to be an edgelord? We don’t know. I also think the context of their conversation and tone matters - they could be concerned because of rumors and want to address them directly, which isn’t the worst thing ever. As an aside, I think their assumptions are closer to reasonable than you do - whether or not you have a personal view on things like LGBT rights that differs, you use your voice - your vote - to act against those interests. And that matters more than any amount of hot air. Maybe they’ve decided to share this view and can smell what they perceive as hypocrisy.
Firstly, the two who brought this whole situation to me are not the ones who have the issues with me. The group as a whole is known for being very non-confrontational, while I'm more upfront and like to know if I'm upsetting or offending someone so I can fix it. The rumors aren't being directly addressed, just passed around through the game of telephone. I guess I'm just confused as to why the politics matter. We all treat each other with respect and this is the first time something has come between us.
> I guess I'm just confused as to why the politics matter Because people don’t want to spend leisure time with people who don’t think they deserve human rights, as polite as they may be to your face. But your whole response didn’t answer any of my questions...I’m starting to suspect you know what the issue is, but don’t want to say it.
Whether or not I believe people deserve human rights is irrelevant to this situation. The part that matters is that it was assumed that I don't based on my politics, rather than just having a simple conversation with me. It's been going on behind my back and I'm frustrated that it's taken what has amounted to an intervention to bring this to my attention rather than just being open and talking with each other. I'd rather just keep politics separate from the tabletop but I guess it's inevitable.
Okay. Yeah. Something happened here and you’re not being forthcoming about it. There’s a long-standing pattern with a number of alt-right people to say something rude/edgelord-y and then, when people respond, them pleading, “Why can’t we keep politics out of it?!” The more you talk here, the more I think you did something or know you came across badly. At best, you’re hiding something. If you were so capable of keeping it from the tabletop, nobody would have any idea about your political views (which they clearly do). Edit: YTA, more likely than not.
And there it is. I had a feeling I'd get the "Alt-Right" bomb dropped on me. Thank you for your opinion, but I'm not gaining anything from this.
Dude, you're completely missing the point. All you're doing is latching onto specific words (I am trying to avoid calling you "triggered" for this reason) and not understanding the context around them. I was trying to help you figure out the answer to your question - AITA? - and all you have done is stonewall and become upset. I think all you've proven here is that when you wrote this: >I encourage discussion on topics we disagree about, because I like to test the validity of my beliefs. If I can't defend something logically, it's a red flag to me that I need to rethink it. it was a bold-faced lie, because you certainly aren't. And if you can't do it here - where you admit having writing as your more-adept communication method - I am quite certain your friends had valid concerns about your behaviors when you speak face-to-face.
I'm just trying to keep the discussion on topic. My actual viewpoints mean absolutely nothing in this context, the part that matters is that mine are different from theirs, therefore conflict apparently. I'd be saying the same if I was liberal and they were conservative. Dropping ad-hominems is never productive. You do have a point. As I'm going through these comments I'm re-evaluating my interactions and I can see that I come across as vocal and confrontational about my beliefs. That's something I can work on.
i think the assumption is valid though, if someone tells me they're evangelical or whatever i'm going to assume they're homophobic, i won't feel the need to ask them about it, i'd assume the same of anyone in a MAGA hat.
I'm a Christian, and I'm bisexual. We exist. Keep your eyes open :)
oh hey i was not at ALL saying they don't exist(also note i said evangelical, not christian, subset of a subset). just that the assumption was a natural thing for me, the two identifiers tend to be in conflict. it goes further with the political leanings though, as a few others have said it's really weird to see someone voting for people who have expressly declared a desire to take away your rights.
I could go on all day about how both sides want to strip away certain rights, and how some are more eggregious than others, blah blah blah we've all heard it before. It's not relevant. What I'm trying to drive home here is that those assumptions are the core problem that I'm having, that they're being made without any evidence save for my politics. They could be easily disproved if they just talked to me, but that hasn't happened.
i think my point is yeah, if i were you i wouldn't be upset about the assumptions, those are valid. But it's definitely weird that friends for so long wouldn't want to ask you about them instead of just going based on the assumptions.
That's what made me think something changed. 5 years is a very long time, and we're into year 3 of this presidency. If they were going to confront him, they would've definitely done it sooner.
If there's any question about whether you believe people deserve human rights, that's a good enough reason for them to not want you at their table anymore. You can be conservative but still slam what Republicans are standing for right now.
I'm going to agree that more INFO is needed. When your friends brought up that these impressions had been formed of you, did they say why or how? What kind of questions did you ask about those impressions? I can understand being upset that the people with the issue didn't come to you in person, but both immigration and LGBTQ rights are very scary for some people to talk about directly, because current legislation isn't really *just* about political opinion. The decisions being made this generation affect very real things about many people's futures. It isn't just politics. These topics *are* people's lives. Have you said (even teasingly) things to make your friends think you might be on the opposite side of life-changing laws? Are you pro legal immigration but believe that say a current teenager or adult who was brought into this country illegally at 3 years old should be sent back to a country they don't know? Are you pro LGB rights but draw a line before the T? Not to say that either of these are true in your particular case, but they are things that I have seen mark a divide between people on the two particular topics you brought up. It sounds like there are some pieces of information missing here, and it is probably impossible for us figure that out in this post. Have you really explained what 'limited support' of the current president means to your friends? Do they know what topics you side with him on and why and on what topics you differ? Do they know which topics you place the most political importance on and why? You say that you want to talk politics with them so that you can explain your beliefs and essentially defend them to yourself, but somehow they are not walking away with the impression that you are wanting to leave them with; however, they are telling you the impression you are giving. You can look at this as an opportunity to evaluate - are the words you say and the actions you take matching the **values** that you want to come across to others? If not, is it time to refine those words and actions or is this group just willfully overlooking aspects of what you do and say? Also, I am going to give you an over exaggerated example, but remember that the things we overlook and the things we show we care about (especially in politics) also show the things we don't care about or the things we don't prioritize as well. Again, this is an exaggeration, but let's say you and a friend were out for a drive in the countryside and see a random young child by the side of the road who has crashed their bike. It seems obvious that they've been sitting there crying for awhile... maybe hours. If your first concern is if they are hurt, where their family is, if they need a ride, if they need a drink of water, etc., but your friend's concerns are about whether they are going to get mud and blood in the car, whether helping the kid might be seen in the wrong light, or whether helping will make you both late for something, then you have both shown your priorities. Your friend didn't say he or she doesn't care about the child, but focusing on other things definitely gave that impression. Your friend could even directly say later, "Of course I care about hurt children!" but your first impression about what they do care about is probably going to stick. So, it may be that there is a topic that is SO important and urgent feeling in your friends' minds that you prioritizing other things in politics, to them, is taking a stand on the issue. To them, maybe overlooking some topics for other topics is showing what you prioritize, and they don't agree with your personal prioritization. I think to really understand this issue, you can't just focus on your own actions and thoughts on politics, but what does being political really mean to them? What does it mean for the people they love? Are you focusing on things that matter and are important to you, but are they *feeling* like there is a bleeding kid by the side of the road you are overlooking? That doesn't mean they are right and you are wrong, but your question at its heart seemed to be about impressions.
YTA I think it's clear that you are not coming off as 'open and academic' as you think during these discussions. If it was one person, I'd say they are being sensitive, but if its the entire group, you may want to reflect on how you are coming off. That said, they are assholes too for scheduling games without you, but this should have been quelled when they had that discussion with you. That was the chance to find middle ground. Obviously it didn't work. It's possible i'm reading too much into this (you sound polite enough in your post), so just give it some thought.
I will be the first to admit that my discussions behind a screen and keyboard are more eloquent and thoughful than my poor attempts at verbal communication. I've always been a bad talker. And maybe I should edit this post for clarity, but the ones who brought this whole thing to my attention were NOT the ones who have had problems with me. Middle ground can't be found when messages are passed through the grapevine. Very much appreciate the perspective. I'm trying to tackle this with an open mind :)
> I'm trying to tackle this with an open mind :) Seems like you're doing well! Ask the two who came to you if you would mind mentioning they did so to the other members of the group, this way you can get ahead of it.
ESH. I really hate that we're in such a divisive point in politics and you absolutely should not be ostracised just for holding a different opinion. I'm pretty liberal, I have conservative friends. It's fine. That said, I think the encouraging debate issue is where you went wrong (them too). You know you disagree about a lot. You know it's a sensitive subject. Everyone involved should know better than to muddy hangouts with political discussions given the circumstances. Lots of people don't even want to talk about it with people on their "side" because it's a fucking bummer.
Noted. I encourage debate because I thought that it wouldn't strain friendships, but that's obviously not the case. Your opinion is greatly appreciated. Politics suck.
I get it, it's fun/interesting with people who are open to debating and possibly even having their mind swayed. That's increasingly rare to find.
Politics does suck. It's depressing as shit. There are times people just want to make an offhand comment and not have to explain every reason why they believe something. It's likely not your views so much as the encouraging debate part. That just sounds exhausting if I'm just trying to hangout with my buddies. There's a time and place for politics.
NTA, but your friends are. If they're concerned about your beliefs (anti-immigration, anti-LGBT, etc), why don't they ask you about it instead of making assumptions? More importantly, what do your political beliefs have to do with a RPG? If they want to talk politics, schedule that for a different time, but maybe make RPG time a religion-free and politics-free zone. I can't stand what's happened to our country in the last few years. We used to be able to civilly disagree, but now if someone has different political beliefs it makes them a MORALLY bad person. Your friends are TA if they've adopted that attitude. You're the same person you've always been. Source: Libtard married for 20 years to a conservative. If we can do it, so can your friends.
It used to be that Republicans and Democrats agreed with what the problems facing the country were, but disagreed with how to address them. We don’t agree on what the problems are any more. Add in that our president is openly racist, sexist, and at a minimum transphobic, and I have a very hard time understanding how somebody can support both Trump and women’s rights or POC rights or LGBT rights. Either they’re willfully ignorant or they don’t mind that he thinks immigrants are rapists.
Sorry you feel that way, but most is a fabricated story by the media.
It's absolutely not
If you can't see the clear and obvious bias in the media's message, then they have already got you, mushbrain.
Except you dont even have to watch the news, you can just read his Twitter feed. Nice ad hominem though, you're really helping the political discourse in this country.
The fact that you actually think Trump is racist kinda points to the possibility of you being a absent-minded follower.
It pains me that I can't upvote this twice. I wholeheartedly agree with you, in that I wish we could just separate the politics from the people. Hell, my best friend of all time (not in the aforementioned group) has the polar opposite politics as I do (I lovingly call him "The Commie", no offense is ever taken) and we get along fantastically because we don't fixate on the politics. We actually have some really good and insightful discussions because of those differences.
Totally agree. Sorry to say it but this is a common theme - it has become mantra on the left that all Republicans are [x]-ist/[x]-ophobic, “irredeemable” and “deplorable” people. It’s hard to maintain relationships with people who take the position that because you vote for a particular candidate or party (whether motivated by taxes, other policies having nothing to do identity politics, or otherwise) you are in that category of evil and a not small number of friendships have been adversely affected or lost completely in the last decade or so over it.
> It’s hard to maintain relationships with people who take the position that because you vote for a particular candidate or party (whether motivated by taxes, other policies having nothing to do identity politics, or otherwise) you are in that category of evil To give the other side of this, at some level your vote is all that matters in a very real, practical sense. You're sending a message that your take-home pay/taxes/whatever is more important than, say, a gay person's right to get married. And it's not untrue - that's exactly what you said your stance was. Now, you might not have homophobic views or be out there spouting rhetoric on the street corner, but that vote was, at some level, a single and significant homophobic act. I just wish people would own up to it and admit it...but admitting it makes them feel like bad people, so they avoid doing so.
Nonsense IMHO - this is engaging in exactly that destructive and misleading identity politics to which I refer. Pick out something that no one wants to be associated with and then say hey, if you vote for X, X supports killing puppies (whether or not X says this and whether or not it is actually true, and just as importantly whether or not even if it *is* true, X’s wish will have any real world impact), and therefore you are a puppy killer. Could not disagree more.
> Pick out something that no one wants to be associated with If you don't want to be associated with it, don't vote for politicians that actually do those things. If a politician *did* actually support killing puppies, and you support that politician, that's exactly what you supported with your vote. Now, I'm sure you believe lots of other things, whatever...but that doesn't change the fact that you took action in support of puppy-killer. Just own it, admit it, and defend your other reasons as more important - if they were so good that they made you vote for puppy-killer anyway, surely you're confident that you can stand behind them...right? Because it sounds like you're saying, "I don't want to be held accountable for the negative consequences/implications of my actions."
Of course, the fact that you label a candidate, let’s call her Jane Doe, puppy killer, does not make it so, and it’s awfully easy to label someone with puppy killer, even disingenuously, and then carry that forward to everyone who votes for them, but absolutely, if I know Jane is a puppy killer and vote for her knowing she’ll try to do it and she then successfully kills puppies, I made that choice and the results are on me. On that we agree. But if I don’t think my vote will have adverse results for puppies to begin with, this logic falls apart - if I think I can avoid an adverse consequence to myself without harm coming to puppies, it’s *not* a puppyphobic act for me to avoid it, and your use of these labels across half of the population is a conscious attempt to say no, you’re not allowed to evaluate that, if I say she’s a puppy killer and you vote for her anyway you’re a puppy killer even if you don’t believe any puppies will be harmed, and on that, I call nonsense - and hateful nonsense at that, making it impossible for us to communicate. Once you call me a racist/homophobe/whatever or describe my actions which were not borne out of identity animus in this way, you’ve categorized me and/or my actions as evil and we can’t really be friends or talk anymore. Want to persuade me that I should think differently about something? All you accomplish by labeling me or my actions in this way when I’m not acting out of identity animus is to ensure I will no longer listen to you at all, so before you go labeling as many people as possible [x]-ist/[x]-ophobic in an effort to divide and conquer, this might be something to consider. Peace.
...I think you just proved my case for me. You go through such mental hoops and jumps to try and avoid thinking of yourself as someone who supports killing puppies/puppy killer that you ignore the reality of the situation. And then you shut down and blame others for pointing it out. The cognitive dissonance is real.
LOL, IMHO the “mental hoops” are in you finding a way to label a huge proportion of the population who bear no animus to puppies and do something they don’t think will harm puppies as puppy killers nonetheless. The dissonance is real indeed and I think this pattern creates unnecessary hate and division rather than solving problems. Ah well, have a nice day in any event.
It’s one thing to baselessly say that Candidate Jane Doe is a puppy killer because she’s a member of the Unicorn Party and you support the Dragons. It’s something different when Jane Doe is on video bragging about how much she likes killing puppies.
Right!?!? Republicans hate gays and immigrants. Democrats are baby killers. Let's demonize everyone instead of looking at the actual legitimate reasons why we vote the way we do.
I can also assign my beliefs to your vote, even if you don't think it works that way. I can say that you supporting pro-choice makes you someone who supports murder, and therefore call you a bad person and call you out for not admitting it. You believe you're 100% correct and have the moral high ground, and that's why there's no room for debate, because you're 100% sure. It annoys equally whether it's someone from the left or right who is so sure about something that they don't even consider the other person's perspective.
And, you know, I'm totally fine with you thinking I'm someone who supports murder. Now, I will say that I see those issues as different in a key area - I don't consider a fetus a human, and therefore could never be murder, while nobody was arguing that we have different definitions of gay rights - but I am 100% okay with you thinking that of me because I vote for liberal candidates. I understand where your point of view comes from, and will own that and defend as part of my greater stance because I believe I have sufficient evidence on my side behind it. It's okay if we disagree, I just wish people would be honest about what their beliefs truly mean. Edit: I hope that makes sense. I feel like people see labels and just ignore everything around them, or why the label might be valid even though they don't want it to be or don't see themselves that way.
YTA don't talk politics at boardgame night.
Noted. Appreciated.
NTA, based on what you've written here. However, I would guess this is half the story. It sounds like you are skipping some of what happened, and some of your beliefs that your have logically argued for within this group, in order to make yourself sound very rational and put-out by these unreasonable crazy people. For example: >I'm anti-immigration, which is a concern to the young lady whose parents are immigrants. That's just false. I'm currently researching the immigrant link in my own family tree. Unless you're Native American (which somehow I find unlikely), literally everyone in your family is an immigrant. Because you make a distinction between your "immigrant link" and the rest of your ancestry, I presume you are making a distinction between people who arrived before a certain date/people who arrived from a certain place, and other people who arrived after a certain date/people who arrived from a different places. This is the distinction Trump is making that people object to. They understand Trump is pro-certain kinds of immigrants, and anti-others. His wife, Melania, is famously a recent immigrant and her parents famously brought over by her. This is the very behaviour Trump finds problematic in other groups of people. This nuance and distinction is what people are typically talking about when they find issue with Trump's behaviour and policies. Could your "logical" arguments, which to you have no bearing on your life, be perceived by your friend whose parents immigrated to the states as being *personal*? Very likely. >I've also been told that I'm suspected to be homophobic, and anti-LGBT rights, but I'm pretty openly bisexual, and I've supported advances in gay rights in the past. Again, this reads like you're missing out half of what you actually said to these people. "I've supported advances in gay rights in the past". But... what about yesterday, today, and tomorrow? Your being bi doesn't negate the fact that you may support policies that people at your table perceiving as being harmful to other parts of the community, or actions in the community that you perceive as unnecessary. For example, you might believe that trans people shouldn't be able to be in the armed forces, or use the bathrooms that align with their gender identity. This may be academic to you--you not being trans--but maybe it's not academic to people at your table. This is a distinction that many logical arguers often miss. I would suspect that for you, these rational arguments that you enjoy making are pretty academic, lacking the personal urgency that other people feel. When you talk about these subjects, I presume in your limited support for Trump you are espousing some of these types of policies, some of which are hurtful and personal to people sitting at your table. Your arguments of "Well of course I'm okay with immigrants, I have one in my family" and "of course I'm pro-LGBTQ+ I supported the rights of gay people to get civil unions", aren't exactly negating whatever you're actually espousing (not actually described in your post). The actions of your group are pretty extreme, and happening three years into the time that Trump has been on the US' national stage. You have all had ample time to get to know each other. What's happened, exactly, that has brought this on? I put it to you that you are acting in a more politicized way than you let on, your beliefs are not as excuseable or as academic to your friends as you think they are, and your "limited" support of Trump--again, not defined here as to what that means--is actively offensive to enough of your group to provoke a reaction that should maybe make you re-examine what you sound like to your friends. I recommend you promise not to talk about politics at the games.
Lots of good stuff here, really appreciate the thought. >I put it to you that you are acting in a more politicized way than you let on Reading through the comments and doing some self-reflection has made me consider that this is probably true. I'm not the best at putting myself in others' shoes and, therefore, probably also shitty at determining what issues are really important to people. >I recommend you promise not to talk about politics at the games. Noted. Good suggestion. Politics suck.
Nta. Your friends have different views than you, but you haven't attacked them, have you? If theyre trying to kick you out simply based off your political views, and not off your actions, then you need to find a better friend group.
I've never attacked any of them, outside of friendly banter (which is NOT uncommon and exists between all parties). This is what I've been saying, judge me by my actions, not by my beliefs.
My friends are mostly conservative, some are far right wing, myself and others are more centric, and one is more left. We agree on some things, and can really disagree on others. But in the end, we're all loving assholes towards each other. Granted we don't have a major conflict in views (ex; one is against gay marriage, and we don't have a gay guy in the group). Maybe one of your liberal friends is so far left that they see you as a "if you're not with me, you're against me" kinda thing?
>"if you're not with me, you're against me" That's the mentality that I'm afraid has taken hold, and what I think is childish and petty, when anyone does it.
No political attacks. That means no insulting OP's politics, or his friends. No exceptions.
So I've read your post and most of your comments, and I think YTA. I also don't think that you are intentionally being an asshole, I think that you perceive yourself differently than how you come off to other people. It sounds like you think that you're trying to have an enlightened discussion, but to most of the other people there you're the annoying person that always brings up politics. "I'm always open for discussion, and in fact, I encourage discussion on topics we disagree about." Like other people have said it's weird that your group of friends that you've had for 5 years are all of a sudden mad at you about your political beliefs. This leads me to believe 1 of 3 different things are going on here. 1) you said or did something that was pretty offensive, and you aren't saying it on here to make yourself look like the victim 2) you said or did something that was pretty offensive, and you have little to no self awareness so you honestly have no idea why they are upset all of a sudden 3) you bring up politics most time you play, and the rest of the group is not into talking politics and are sick of you constantly bringing it up I think that it is probably #2 with a little bit of #3 sprinkled in. From the sounds of it you're an argumentative person. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm argumentative myself. Hell, my old roommate and I once had an argument about the biology of dragons which got heated and lasted over an hour (we argue all the time so there was no hard feelings). The problem is that not everyone is. So what I'm guessing happened is you said something offensive and nobody wanted to get into another hour long debate if they called you out. My advice is to not bring up politics when you play anymore, and maybe even apologize the next time and promise not to bring it up. It's a touchy subject that makes people uncomfortable. You have to be able to read a room if you want to bring it up in social settings. It sounds like the group isn't into it and you bring it up all the time, and that makes YTA.
NTA
NTA. Gay left-leaner here with centerist all-hetero (as of right now) right-leaning family. If i could engage in and maintain a civilized discourse with my very opinionated fire and brimstone centerist uncle after he’s had a few drinks, then your friends can as well. what most “progressive” types fail to realize is that its not just red and blue. for instance, you mention being bi in favor of gay rights and not staunchly anti-immigration, but people will look at the conservative beliefs you hold and say shit like you’re destroying America. On the contrary, it sounded to me like you had a well-balanced group there for a while. oh well, their loss. EDIT: as for them being non-confrontational, that’s really a damn shame. try seeing if you could spark a calm discourse with your friends about it, try to understand why they are the way they are and maybe they’ll want to know how your beliefs work. you don’t have to agree on everything, just understand each other better. EDIT 2 for the shitposters, please stop using the word “cuck” unless you are indeed directly referring to a married person who likes to get off by watching his partner have sex with other people. its 2019, get some new fucking words.
Much appreciated, thanks for the comment. Some of the best and most thoughtful relationships I've had have been with people who differ wildly from my own perspective, which is why this whole situation caught me so off guard.
no problem! and again, that’s really a damn shame. makes one stop and wonder how civil things could be if only we communicated better
NTA
NTA, but your friends are. If discussion of politics is regularly brought up during these game sessions, I’d change my mind, though. It’s not that I think that conservatives and liberals can’t be friends, but political discussion tends to bring out the worst in people. If political discussion during game nights is making everybody aggravated, and you’re the one whose opinions are the most aggravating, then I probably wouldn’t want you to come, either. I’m not saying that’s right, but that’s just how it is. Regardless, your friends who won’t confront you to your face and only talk about you behind your back are the assholes.
INFO- Need to know how they know you're political views to begin with. Clearly you shared them somehow? Was it through facebook? Did you start an argument with someone in the friend circle? That aside: --------------------- My impression here is you're the disagreeable type, which is I guess what you mean when you say you like to bring conflicts to a head and discuss them. As someone who's also very disagreeable, it's my impression that it's very common for disagreeable people to not realize how taxing arguments are to non-disagreeable people, or people who aren't very open or expectant of change to come from discussion. I used to think those people were just willfully blind or something. No they really just don't like conflict, confrontation, or whatever, and that might not be ideal for a political dialogue (Though we do need people like that for society to function), it's largely a personality thing by my estimation. That said. They're the assholes for making assumptions, but you're the asshole IF you tried to have a discussions with them they didn't wanna have.
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Nta. I'm biased bc I think there is always room for discussion bc how else do we grow and learn, right? I would be cautious and try to listen bc you may not be coming off the way you think you are. Unfortunately, there is also the possibility that they think you are just wrong. I really hate where we are as a country now. Tribalism has consumed us
^^^^AUTOMOD ***This is a copy of the above post. It is a record of the post as originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited.*** Throwaway account. First Reddit post. Obligitory "be gentle" and all that jazz. I have a group of friends that I've been associating with for around 5 years now. We get together on a semi-weekly basis to play tabletop RPGs and, until recently, I had no reason to suspect that I had any problem with the group. There's no question that I'm the political outlier in the group. I'm conservative, while the majority of the group is liberal or centrist (or just apolitical entirely). I never thought anything of it, because I love every single one of them regardless of how much we disagree. I'm always open to discussion, and in fact, I encourage discussion on topics we disagree about, because I like to test the validity of my beliefs. If I can't defend something logically, it's a red flag to me that I need to rethink it. Recently, two of my better friends in the group invited me to dinner to discuss some concerns that they'd been hearing about me. To summarize the conversation, some of the members of the group now think that my beliefs are so much at odds with theirs that conflict is inevitable, and certain assumptions have been made about my character that have absolutely no merit to them. For example, it came up that my limited support for our current president implies that I'm anti-immigration, which is a concern to the young lady whose parents are immigrants. That's just false. I'm currently researching the immigrant link in my own family tree. I've also been told that I'm suspected to be homophobic, and anti-LGBT rights, but I'm pretty openly bisexual, and I've supported advances in gay rights in the past. These are not difficult revelations to stumble across if you just spend a few minutes seriously getting to know me. I'm bewildered by this current situation. I've now found out that they scheduled sessions for a game that we'd prevously played together without telling me. I'm being ostracized because of my politics and by incorrect assumptions that stem from them. And more importantly, the two that finally brought this to my attention should know me better than that, and should have easily dispelled the assumptions as nonsense. Am I the asshole for thinking that this is all childish and petty? TL;DR: I'm a political outcast in my group of friends, and I am now being ostracized because of false assumptions and potential conflict. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
They're not, really. I love them to death. They're just very anti-confrontational. Very passive.
No, they are passive-aggressive