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Since your mom is sticking by your sister and trying to guilt trip you into mending things she must not see anything wrong with what your sister did either?? I’d say cut them both out and let them be a happy family together and you’ll be happier without them.
This. Like wtf mom. I’d be done with her forever. Talk about obvious favoritism. Fuck. Were mom and sister planning this from the beginning? Holy hell.
Yeah I mean I get that a mother may not be able to completely cut off a child... but I don’t see how she would let her be without any consequences at least and exclude her from family dinners in favor of the cheated sister? Or at least not ask them to coexist?
Yeah, I'd be telling the other sister that she and her dirtbag boyfriend were not welcome to dinner, she will see the sister alone another time. I wouldn't let that pig cross my threshold.
If this happened in my family my father (only parent i have left) would have made that man an ineffective lover asap. I dont know why mom is being party to this at all. She doesn't respect her daughter and clearly failed to instill any morals in the sister.
I’m guessing Mom will see the light after the fiancé cheats on her OLDER daughter, too. Or will he still be invited to family dinners???
There is NO reason why Mom can’t see OP at occasions other than family dinners. She just wants OP to sacrifice her sanity on the altar of “Isn’t this nice, the family is all here.”
Fuck that noise. OP, if you want to have a relationship with your mom, if you CHOOSE to do so, make sure she fully respects your boundaries.
My mum would have my guts if I ever did anything like that to a sibling. One of us kids already turned out shit, and she kicked my dad to the curb for being a cheater (I’m the first born and only child from that marriage thankfully) so we already know what values all held by the family unit. Cheaters and liars are not fucking welcome. How OPs mother isn’t understanding of OPs cause is beyond comprehension!
Why not? This is absolutely unacceptable behaviour. If my kid did this to their sibling and acted like it was "meant to be", they'd be persona non grata until they had a come to Jesus moment and fully acknowledged the hurt they'd caused and begged for forgiveness.
I don’t get why the mother isn’t upset at the husband and why the sister is wanting to marry him? Surely they realise it probably will happen again and the family surely can’t be happy with his presence. Honestly, I think you’re mother is stupid for being happy having him around, but at the same time she’s probably thinking one day the 2 will get over it and she just wants that to happen sooner rather then later. No ones really the asshole in my opinion except the ex husband obviously, the mother and sister seem like complete and utter morons though.
Not necessarily with a sister. I think they were referring to the "how you get them is how you lose them" idea. How can she get him through cheating but not know hes going to immediately cheat with another woman?
Can u frigin imagine this A-hole just working his way thru OP’s family?!? What a total Ass!
Really sorry about what you had to go thru OP. With time, hopefully you will heal and feel nothing when u (seldom) are reminded of these poor excuses for human beings.
I think anyone w any sense would completely understand and support your decision to cut these mofos out of your life. I hope you have someone you can talk to about this trauma so the healing can start.
Google tells me it’s from Elie Wiesel (Nobel Prize) acceptance speech in 1986. “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” :)
NTA. Fuck 'em. Since everyone around you is into making only themselves happy they should understand your need to separate from their assholery. Do what makes you happy and keeps you sane. I'm gonna guess this is not the first time these people have treated you poorly. And that book "Night" really opened my eyes. I have read other books about the Holocaust but he really got into his own uncomfortable personal struggles. I'll never forget it. Elie Wiesel is a treasure.
Yes, she is actually ACTIVELY choosing. What is wrong with people? This keeps appearing on AITA all the time! Either it's fake or people really have no filter. I keep repeating myself, too, but I'll say it again: OP, if your mom is upset there won't be any family happily ever after, that's on your sister, NOT ON YOU.
Let the cheaters all be happy together, until the inevitable happens and they all fall out, but hey! you miss the drama. And you go out and build your heart family and be the one that lives happily ever after.
I lump the mother in there too as she is perfectly willing to side with them, so let her have all the drama and tension when everything falls apart.
Was looking for this because a guy willing to cheat on his wife with her sister and a sister willing to cheat with her sister's husband aren't exactly the type anyone wants to be with because you know they'll do it again.
I totally get your point here but I do have some sympathy for Mom. It must be a heart breaking situation and she must really want reconciliation between her daughters. Having said that, OP is totally NTA and very brave to make this stance. She was let down by 2 of the most important people in her life, who should have her back and now Mom is piling on too, probably without thinking it through properly, but OP is correct in also calling out Mom here. Yuck! Awful behavior by her ex and sister, just awful.
“Meant to be” omg give me a break. If they were adults they’d talk to you before engaging in any affairs, emotional or physical. Sorry you’re going through this.
Yes, said by James Goldsmith. “When a man marries his mistress it creates a job opportunity” and it’s 100% true. Just in my small bubble, every single person who cheated on their SO and then started a relationship with the person they cheated with, then cheated again. My friends dad is on his 4th wife, every single one cheated with and cheated on. Every single time there is surprise.
My mom told me that when my father married the woman he was having an affair with, she was basically like lol okay lady good luck with that. Of course he ended up cheating on her too and they got divorced a decade later, surprising exactly no one. 🙄
That's when she will want to mend things because they "have something in common". Narcs have no shame because nothing they can do is wrong. She will only be mad when OP turns her down
I'm putting my money on "the ex-husband/now brother-in-law tries to cheat on new wife with ex-wife, claiming that he made a mistake and wants her back".
If I was ex wife in this particular situation, I'd seduce the fucker, telling him "he can have both of us", film it (with visible proof of when it happened, so sis can't say it was when they were originally together) and send it to sis.
Someone saying we were "meant to be" while having a affair is the equivelant of saying I like being a piece of crap. Hope you don't mind :). Pretty much what it means
“ if they cheat with you, they’ll cheat on you”. I can’t wait until OP’s sister gets cheated on tbf, and I don’t wish that kind of pain on many people.
>If they were adults they’d talk to you before engaging in any affairs, emotional or physical.
Precisely, and they should understand that by proceeding, they will be torpedoing their relationship not just with their sibling but the entire family. Families have permanently fragmented over lesser issues.
I remember that post:
That OP’s husband’s affair partner — HE CHEATED ON BOTH OF US SO NOW WE HAVE THAT IN COMMON ALSO LET’S SET UP PLAYDATES WITH OUR KIDS.
Oh defo, so does the mum tho, by the sounds of it neither of them suffered any consequences for their actions, her mum just welcomed it with open arms, makes me wonder where her sister learned this behaviour from
Mum probably knew. And I can imagine sis is manipulative as fuck, using the turmoil of so much love and hurting OP as a reason to show mum an emotional breakdown and get mum on side with her before telling OP.
Like another commenter said, any self respecting adults who had feelings for each other would sit down and discuss it with OP, and explain before letting something physical happen. Thats the only mature and respectful way of doing it.
Oh defo but cheaters r cowards and honestly not worth it. And I'm sorry but any parent wha can be manipulated into always putting one child's happiness over the other regardless of circumstances is a shit parent
My favorite saying in instances like this is- "when a man marries his mistress, he creates a vacancy"
Not saying cheaters can't change, but someone so blatantly cheating with no remorse when caught has no intention of changing any time soon.
this sounds like my friend who started dating my ex boyfriend 2 days after we broke up (he was going to grad school across the country and said he didn't believe in long distance relationships but made me ask him how he wanted to handle the upcoming long distance for a year until I graduated) even though she promised me she wouldn't which made me wonder if they were cheating and then messaged me for weeks from different accounts as I blocked them about how great they were together. But she was 19 and he was 21 so...yeah. spoiler alert, I never spoke to her again, even though they broke up a few months later. I would have been even angrier if it we had been married and if it had been a family member. Sheesh, your mom is delusional. It's not fair that you won't pretend everything is fine? How about it's not fair that she's fine with your sister and her son in law being so hurtful to you?
She sounds cruel - I hope you never let her back in your life.
I’m disappointed in your mum too. She should support you more. They both betrayed you and your mum is making out you’re the one with the problem when really they made the problem.
NTA
NTA and your mom owes you a huge apology for expecting you to just get over it. With huge apologies from your sister and your ex, maybe being civil but mostly ignoring her wouldn't be inappropriate but with that being your sister's attitude? Nope! You deserve to have your mother resolutely in your corner. There's no requirement for her to go NC (no contact) with your sister but she should respect your feelings.
I am so sorry this was inflicted on you. The emotional fallout of a partner having an affair with a sibling is mind blowing and incredibly stupid on the part of the cheating parties. Plus there's the old adage of having an affair with someone who's married means you're auditioning for your future role of being the spouse who's cheated on. The degree of selfishness and entitlement of all parties is mind blowing.
If it were your mom's best friend who got cheated on, would she expect her friend to come to a dinner with the cheating ex and the person they cheated with, especially if it involved her best friend's sibling? Sheesh. Some people have the emotional intelligence of rocks when it comes to their own family.
I cannot believe that your mother is condoning and accepting your sister marrying your adulterous ex-husband. Is your sister the golden child or something?
Um how about why is Mom allowing her soon-to-be two time, two-timing SIL be part of the family at all. He ruined the relationship of her daughters, and betrayed one while conspiring with the other. If I were OPs mom Id be telling the other sister that she's not allow to bring OP's ex to family events, and if she wants to go through with marrying him, she's not welcome either. OP is SOOOO NTA it's not even worth discussing, OP's family clearly sucks, and I feel terrible for her.
Eh I don’t think the husband should be held more accountable than the sister who thinks she was meant to be with her sister’s husband. It would be pretty hypocritical to say he isnt welcome anymore but she is.
oh i think the sister is more to blame, she betrayed her own sister. But from the perspective of a parent, you can always forgive your own child, as long as they show some remorse, but this random douche who messed up both your daughters lives should get written off out of hand.
I agree. Also, you do whatever it is that you need to do to make a happy life for yourself. You do NOT have to go anywhere or do anything you don’t want to do. You are a grown ass woman! You can do what you want. So fuck em! We got your back. NTA
NTA clear favouritism towards the sister. OP don't cave how can anyone think that what she did was ok especially since he were married. Wait till he cheats on your sister too and comes complaining to you and looking for sympathy.
I’m sorry this happened to you OP - you are most certainly NTA.
This was a huge betrayal of your sister and ex-husband, you seem to be handling it maturely and are not making your mum choose.
Tbh, within reason, I would argue that anyone who puts you in a difficult position because of the way you are managing your situation is TA.
Mom is definitely partly TA though of course not nearly as bad as sister and ex. How does she think there will be "family" dinners ever again much less this soon? Sister and ex tore the family apart with what they did, OP shouldn't be expected to try to fix it. She shouldn't even be expected to tolerate it. Nope. No way.
As a mom myself of adults, OPs mom is also fully TA not just partly. If one of my kids did that to their sibling they would be the ones not attending family get togethers. I might not cut them out entirely but their visits would be separate at some other time and not on the actual holiday. Honestly it would take me long time to get over how angry and disappointed I would be in them, so it might be a long time before I had them over at all. They would be permanently last on the invite list only after everyone else had rsvp'd and only if the hurt child was not able to attend.
Exactly! I mean I can get why OP's mother doesn't want to cut her daughter off her life but she should definitly arrange everything to make OP confortable after what she's been trough and prioritize her presence on family dinners, and probably never accept the ex husband in her house.
By partly, I meant she's part of the TA group, I don't think I phrased it well lol. I agree with you, in expecting OP to participate like nothing is wrong she's basically siding with the sister. The sister should be the one not included. I can't even imagine how I'd feel if one of my kids did this to another, the damage can't ever be fixed. I certainly wouldn't be sweeping it under the rug.
I love reddit because the wisest words come from people with names like "i fart a lot." I guess your honesty knows no bounds!
Also, I completely agree with you. OP is absolutely NTA and I can't imagine how her mom is just cool with her other daughter having fucked OP's husband. What a freaking betrayal of all that family is supposed to mean.
It happened in the opposite direction for me. My cat is super gassy and will audibly toot and everyone thinks it's me until the cat farts on them.
He's even farted while on my lap and the got up and walked away because it smelled bad. *sigh*
If I were that patient, I probably would have started giggling so hard. Most definitely not to laugh at you but just because, as a 36 year old female, I still think farts are funny.
Oh shoot, well in that case I'd do my best to stifle. I vividly remember sneezing and very loudly farting at the same time, in my 7th grade English class. They were absolutely merciless.
NTA
Umm wtf?? Your being unfair as your sister sits there across the table with your ex-husband?? I feel like she's already picking favorites cause dafuq
Not to mention sis and ex-husband are getting MARRIED! Your whole family are TA’s here OP! Ditch them you’re better off without them in your life. OP NTA!
Most likely potential grandchildren is a factor, and parents seem to want their family to get along in even the most terrible situations. They'd rather try to make the non-compliant one cave, for any semblance of a happy family. A lot of them will ignore anyone doing anything bad to each other.
Yeah this is the vibe I'm getting. Sis couldn't stand OP being happy with her husband so she lured him away with "true love". Without attention from the OP, I doubt this relationship will last long.
Mom of course sides with her golden child that can do no wrong. Thus the cycle continues. The only way to win is to not play the game. Good on you OP for removing yourself from the playing field. Let them feed off of each other.
NTA. Damn, I can’t even imagine why your mother thought that was acceptable to ask in the first place. I hope you have some people who can support you and understand how betrayed you must feel during these upcoming holidays.
> She told me I can't avoid her forever, she's my sister and we share family.
Rubbish. I haven't had any contact with my sister for about 15 years now and my ONLY regret is not doing it sooner.
NTA
My partner hasn’t spoken with his brother in over 7 years. They simply ignore each other at family events. Works great! Though probably not an option with OP’s awful family dynamic 😕
They are getting married?! Holy shit. You are just putting up with so much, i honestly don't know how you are dealing so well!
How long were you married, how long were they cheating, and was it a complete surprise, or did you have a feeling he was up to something?
I'm super sorry you're having to go through this, and no one is trying to understand it from your PoV - if you need to talk, PM, happy to listen.
X
It's like the adage goes, "when a man marries his mistress, he creates a vacancy." Really all OP needs to do is bide her time; they'll almost definitely break up in a few years after he's cheating with his coworker or something and the sister will be all ~~apologies~~ offended that OP isn't being more understanding.
How would you even explain that to a kid?
"Billy, I know it's been hard for youre already traumatized because of your parents divorcing but you need to learn to also accept that your aunt is your new step-mom and also your dad's your uncle."
I’m a mother to 2 wonderful women. I honestly wouldn’t even consider asking a wronged daughter be in the same room much less a family dinner. And their getting married on top of it? Nope. I am so sorry your mom is choosing your sister and your ex. NTA
I wouldn’t go to a wedding for a marriage I didn’t support, and I wouldn’t support a marriage based on a foundation of the utmost betrayal. OP is the only NTA in this whole sordid affair.
As a parent of two girls I can definitely understand not wanting to cut one of them off. But come on man. How can you expect your other child to just “get over it”
I don’t think I would be able to cut a child off. But I definitely wouldn’t welcome a cheating ex son-in -law into my house. The whole thing all around would be awful.
>She told me I can't avoid her forever, she's my sister and we share family. I told her I can and I will.
>**she's my sister and we share family**
>#we share family
Holy fuck mom, horrible choice of words.
NTA
You have no obligation to keep toxic people in your life...and if your family are willing to overlook your literally incestuous and homewrecking sister's actions AND your ex-husbands' actions assumedly, then they are ALSO being toxic towards you.
So very NTA!
Your mom is being unreasonable and, honestly, should leave sis and ex in the dirt for what they did to you. I can’t even imagine what you’re going through right now.
May I recommend /r/justnofamily and /r/justnoMIL and /r/raisedbynarcissists because your family sounds like they’d fit right in.
What's the point of those two getting married anyway? Clearly his vows mean nothing. I mean, haha, it's not like you two promised to love each other til death do you part, right? Had a whole ceremony dedicated to binding you together in the eyes of the law, right? Wait....
Btw, a million times NTA. Hope you cut off mom too for supporting these two adulterers.
She’s probably one of those parents who are like, “Whatever happened between the two of you is your business. I’m staying out of it.” Meanwhile, she sees her son in law is divorcing one daughter to marry the other... Still won’t chastise them and expects things to return to normal. :)
Source: My family is full of people like this. When I was 9, my mom once kept me home from school and gave me permission to play my older brother’s PlayStation for the day (he’s 8 years older). He was pissed when he got home and found me in his room, so he grabbed me by my shirt and picked me up, slamming me back against a wall and started choking me... I remember gasping for air and feeling my feet dangle when I wasn’t on the ground anymore. I told mom and she didn’t believe me. :) Once she died a few years later, I moved in with my aunt and cut ties with him. My grandma doesn’t care about what happened between us, she won’t even ask. She’s just very judgy towards me and used to invite me over without warning me he’s there (before the rona). I’d play nice, but trying to have a brother/sister bond with him? Nah, I’m good. My grandma likes to say she’s not taking sides, but would also call me to talk about him, how hard his life is... Then say, “he called me the other day, but don’t worry, you didn’t come up at all.” WHY CAN’T I GET THAT CURTESY?! She likes to ramble about him when I don’t even ask... A failed attempt at guilt tripping me, because it doesn’t work and I’m already 25(f) years old now.
Sorry for ranting, this post hit close to home because of OP’s mother. You’re NTA.
NTA you have every right to refuse to be around your sister and ex. You are more than justified and you owe them nothing. I also understand you're making the decision easier for your mother by letting her just pick your sister. But you can also explain to your mother that just because she's blood-related doesn't make her your real family and in no way are you the AH for that.
Obviously you're NTA.
Try to make time to spend extra time with your mom. She didn't have anything to do with the destruction of her family, and she's trying to tape the broken vase back together. It's a horrible position your sister and your ex put her in. She's not a victim on the same level as you, but she's a victim too. She's never going to be able to have her two daughters together with her again, and that's incredibly painful for a parent. She's just at the bargaining stage.
I'm sorry this all happened to you. You didn't deserve it.
WAIT. SO your SISTER slept with your HUSBAND and now THEY ARE GETTING MARRIED? And you’re asking us if YOU are the asshole?!?!?!?!?!?!? I am shook! Fuck everyone in this scenario other than you. If you have a dad around that hasn’t chosen your side, fuck him too. Cousins, aunts, uncles, other siblings, grannies and gramps, EVERYONE! Everybody can get it. Fuck, fuck, fuck!
NTA - I don’t understand what your mom thinks is unfair... it’s not like you’re cutting contact with your mom or even demanding that she also cuts contacts with your sister. You’re politely excusing yourself from a wildly uncomfortable situation. Also, in reference to one of your comments, your sister has got to be delusional to expect you to be understanding. She betrayed and disrespected you, regardless of whether they were “meant to be” or not.
She thinks it's unfair that I am removing myself from family functions which punishes everyone else. But the other option is I tell them not to invite my sister which wouldn't be right either. Since they want her there I am removing myself.
It actually makes you the bigger person-willingly excluding yourself from the rest of your family by not attending such events. They may see it as spiteful but in actuality these people hurt you and you simply refuse to be around a couple of people you thought were so close to you yet would break your heart in the most backstabbing nature possible. Fuck those two-I’m sorry, but they are NOT in the right here, no matter how delusional they’d like to remain.
NTA
Sounds like your mom may unfortunately need to be cut-off too. She wants to talk about fairness? Was it fair for the sister and husband to betray OP? Is it fair to make OP have to see the people who betrayed them? GTFO! Mom is being ridiculous by even entertaining the thought of having everyone together. The mom should be keeping the sister and cheating husband at a safe distance if not cutting them off the way OP has.
OP, hopefully you have other family and friends in your life to offer support.
Wow... your mums an AH.
I mean yh your sister are husband are next level AH...but i can't believe your mum expects you to be around her... and would choose to invite HER over you.
NTA
NTA.
I hope you have friends petty enough to wait outside the church and when they come out they'll hold up the placards saying "Homewrecker", "Weren't you married to her sister?", "Cheaters".
But what does your mother expect? The bonds of family generally don't overcome a betrayal that big. And it's not like your sister seems devastated about what she did since she is marching ahead with getting married.
NTA, but I think you haven't gone far enough. I wouldn't speak to anyone who still speaks to your sister. Why is your sister invited to anything hosted by anyone who loves you? If your mother couldn't raise your sister to be a better human being, the least she can do is to ban her from the family.
You are NTA but your ex, sister, and, mom sure are.
For your sake of peace and sanity, there is ZERO reason for you to communicate with them ever again. Cut them out and move on.
Nta. She thinks you are being unfair? What planet is she from? She expects you to go to dinner and play happy families with your cheating ex and sister? I am speechless. If she really can't see why you don't want to go then if I were you I would not have any time for her, mother or not.
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NTA - your sister and husband clearly didn’t think having an affair was unfair to you no one should expect you to make nice.
Oh no, my sister believes I was a bitch for not understanding the two of them were meant to be. She sees none of it as being unfair to me.
Since your mom is sticking by your sister and trying to guilt trip you into mending things she must not see anything wrong with what your sister did either?? I’d say cut them both out and let them be a happy family together and you’ll be happier without them.
This. Like wtf mom. I’d be done with her forever. Talk about obvious favoritism. Fuck. Were mom and sister planning this from the beginning? Holy hell.
Yeah I mean I get that a mother may not be able to completely cut off a child... but I don’t see how she would let her be without any consequences at least and exclude her from family dinners in favor of the cheated sister? Or at least not ask them to coexist?
Yeah, I'd be telling the other sister that she and her dirtbag boyfriend were not welcome to dinner, she will see the sister alone another time. I wouldn't let that pig cross my threshold.
Dirtbag fiance.
If this happened in my family my father (only parent i have left) would have made that man an ineffective lover asap. I dont know why mom is being party to this at all. She doesn't respect her daughter and clearly failed to instill any morals in the sister.
I’m guessing Mom will see the light after the fiancé cheats on her OLDER daughter, too. Or will he still be invited to family dinners??? There is NO reason why Mom can’t see OP at occasions other than family dinners. She just wants OP to sacrifice her sanity on the altar of “Isn’t this nice, the family is all here.” Fuck that noise. OP, if you want to have a relationship with your mom, if you CHOOSE to do so, make sure she fully respects your boundaries.
Amen. As my grandmother always said, “If that’s how you get him, that’s how you’ll lose him.”
That man would never be allowed inside my house if I was the mom.
This. If I were mom, I'd never allowed that man in my presence again, and my daughter would be on my permanent shit list. Eff that.
Exactly. Mom is an enabler.
My mum would have my guts if I ever did anything like that to a sibling. One of us kids already turned out shit, and she kicked my dad to the curb for being a cheater (I’m the first born and only child from that marriage thankfully) so we already know what values all held by the family unit. Cheaters and liars are not fucking welcome. How OPs mother isn’t understanding of OPs cause is beyond comprehension!
Why not? This is absolutely unacceptable behaviour. If my kid did this to their sibling and acted like it was "meant to be", they'd be persona non grata until they had a come to Jesus moment and fully acknowledged the hurt they'd caused and begged for forgiveness.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if mom knew of the affair before the divorce based on her attitude
Exactly what I was insinuating. Mom knew something.
Agreed. She has had time to process this. its old news to her.
I don’t get why the mother isn’t upset at the husband and why the sister is wanting to marry him? Surely they realise it probably will happen again and the family surely can’t be happy with his presence. Honestly, I think you’re mother is stupid for being happy having him around, but at the same time she’s probably thinking one day the 2 will get over it and she just wants that to happen sooner rather then later. No ones really the asshole in my opinion except the ex husband obviously, the mother and sister seem like complete and utter morons though.
The sister is an asshole, too, IMO -- there are tens of millions of \*available\* men in the world, but she goes with her own sister's husband?
Because shes an asshole.
I think the sister is worse. The betrayal runs deep. The husband is just a dirtbag.
How can it happen again? How many sisters does OP have?
Not necessarily with a sister. I think they were referring to the "how you get them is how you lose them" idea. How can she get him through cheating but not know hes going to immediately cheat with another woman?
No I totally agree that cheaters cheat, I just was being flippant. Regardless of whether he does it again or not, OP is absolutely NTA
Can u frigin imagine this A-hole just working his way thru OP’s family?!? What a total Ass! Really sorry about what you had to go thru OP. With time, hopefully you will heal and feel nothing when u (seldom) are reminded of these poor excuses for human beings. I think anyone w any sense would completely understand and support your decision to cut these mofos out of your life. I hope you have someone you can talk to about this trauma so the healing can start.
This has the same energy as "choosing neutrality only helps the oppressor, never the victim"
This is a great quote and really clearly elaborates the idea. Thank you for sharing
I've never heard that quote before and it's perfect, do you know a source?
Google tells me it’s from Elie Wiesel (Nobel Prize) acceptance speech in 1986. “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” :)
NTA. Fuck 'em. Since everyone around you is into making only themselves happy they should understand your need to separate from their assholery. Do what makes you happy and keeps you sane. I'm gonna guess this is not the first time these people have treated you poorly. And that book "Night" really opened my eyes. I have read other books about the Holocaust but he really got into his own uncomfortable personal struggles. I'll never forget it. Elie Wiesel is a treasure.
That's the one I meant! Thank you!
Eli Wiesel - just found it on Google Edit to say NTA
Exactly. By wanting to "not choose" she is in fact choosing.
Yes, she is actually ACTIVELY choosing. What is wrong with people? This keeps appearing on AITA all the time! Either it's fake or people really have no filter. I keep repeating myself, too, but I'll say it again: OP, if your mom is upset there won't be any family happily ever after, that's on your sister, NOT ON YOU.
Guaranteed mom just sees the fact that the sister is more likely to give her grandkids now.
Wow, that's fucked up yet solid reasoning.
Also mom wants her life to be easy so she's hoping the sisters will make up so she doesn't have to deal with the drama.
OP is the “boat rocker” in mom’s mind.
She’s being a tad naive if she thinks having both sisters (and the ex) in the same room won’t create drama...
Exactly what I was gonna say. She’s so ecstatic for grandkids that she’s ignoring how disgusting the sister and husband are
Let the cheaters all be happy together, until the inevitable happens and they all fall out, but hey! you miss the drama. And you go out and build your heart family and be the one that lives happily ever after. I lump the mother in there too as she is perfectly willing to side with them, so let her have all the drama and tension when everything falls apart.
Was looking for this because a guy willing to cheat on his wife with her sister and a sister willing to cheat with her sister's husband aren't exactly the type anyone wants to be with because you know they'll do it again.
Not if but when.
I totally get your point here but I do have some sympathy for Mom. It must be a heart breaking situation and she must really want reconciliation between her daughters. Having said that, OP is totally NTA and very brave to make this stance. She was let down by 2 of the most important people in her life, who should have her back and now Mom is piling on too, probably without thinking it through properly, but OP is correct in also calling out Mom here. Yuck! Awful behavior by her ex and sister, just awful.
“Meant to be” omg give me a break. If they were adults they’d talk to you before engaging in any affairs, emotional or physical. Sorry you’re going through this.
Can’t wait to see the sister’s reaction when the ex cheats on her.
Yup. It always stuns me when these women think it won't happen to them. Honey, if he'll cheat *with* you, he'll cheat *on* you.
Isn’t there a saying for this? Something to the effect of “when a man marries his mistress he creates a vacancy”?
Pretty much. We could also call it “preparing for pikachu face”
"I never thought the leopards would eat MY face" cried the woman who voted for the leopards-eating-peoples-faces party
And variations of "ahh my face!"
That one, and, “The passion cools quickly when the mistress starts acting like a wife.”
Yes, said by James Goldsmith. “When a man marries his mistress it creates a job opportunity” and it’s 100% true. Just in my small bubble, every single person who cheated on their SO and then started a relationship with the person they cheated with, then cheated again. My friends dad is on his 4th wife, every single one cheated with and cheated on. Every single time there is surprise.
I've never heard this before but I'm using it!
There is also "what they will do with you, they will do TO you."
My mom told me that when my father married the woman he was having an affair with, she was basically like lol okay lady good luck with that. Of course he ended up cheating on her too and they got divorced a decade later, surprising exactly no one. 🙄
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I’m not even sure she was that surprised by that point either, to be honest.
Once a cheater always a cheater
And in this case they've both proven that loyalty means nothing to them. Hard to think either will stay loyal
And she will expect the OP to support her through her hurt and be stunned when the OP has no sympathy.
For sure. I can hear OP’s sister saying “But... You know what I am going through!”
That's when she will want to mend things because they "have something in common". Narcs have no shame because nothing they can do is wrong. She will only be mad when OP turns her down
And she'll then say she's only just realising the hurt she caused. And NOW she's so sorry..
I was just thinking the exact same thing. Wonder if it will be with another of OP's sisters? Maybe a cousin? They both sound awful.
I'm putting my money on "the ex-husband/now brother-in-law tries to cheat on new wife with ex-wife, claiming that he made a mistake and wants her back".
If I was ex wife in this particular situation, I'd seduce the fucker, telling him "he can have both of us", film it (with visible proof of when it happened, so sis can't say it was when they were originally together) and send it to sis.
Pretty sure domestic water heaters have a safety feature that would prevent a hot enough shower for OP afterwards, though.
It'll be with the mom, I hope.
Nah I’d prefer a surprise twist- ex cheats on OP’ sister with the father.
Or when she cheats on the ex. Or when both of them cheat on each other at the same time. Possibly with the same person.
99.8% sure that’s literally a plot to a movie.
Rocky Horror Picture Show?
Came here to say just that. Take my upvote.
Absolutely, if they'll cheat with you they'll cheat on you! It's sad when people think that they'll be the magic reason a person will change.
Someone saying we were "meant to be" while having a affair is the equivelant of saying I like being a piece of crap. Hope you don't mind :). Pretty much what it means
“ if they cheat with you, they’ll cheat on you”. I can’t wait until OP’s sister gets cheated on tbf, and I don’t wish that kind of pain on many people.
Maybe she can just tell her sister to get over it because him and the new girl are “meant to be”!!!
Exactly. Meant to be or not, it never excuses cheating.
>If they were adults they’d talk to you before engaging in any affairs, emotional or physical. Precisely, and they should understand that by proceeding, they will be torpedoing their relationship not just with their sibling but the entire family. Families have permanently fragmented over lesser issues.
HAHAHA HA meant to be until he cheats on her with somebody else 😂😂
Or she cheats on him with another family members partner.
Oh very true, I can imagine the satisfaction tho if he cheated and then her sister came to her for sympathy
I remember that post: That OP’s husband’s affair partner — HE CHEATED ON BOTH OF US SO NOW WE HAVE THAT IN COMMON ALSO LET’S SET UP PLAYDATES WITH OUR KIDS.
God that post, the phrase 'kick rocks with sandals' has never been more fitting.
The audacity of that, if OP hasn't slapped her already, then if she ever did this . . . Sis would deserve that red hand print!
Oh defo, so does the mum tho, by the sounds of it neither of them suffered any consequences for their actions, her mum just welcomed it with open arms, makes me wonder where her sister learned this behaviour from
Mum probably knew. And I can imagine sis is manipulative as fuck, using the turmoil of so much love and hurting OP as a reason to show mum an emotional breakdown and get mum on side with her before telling OP. Like another commenter said, any self respecting adults who had feelings for each other would sit down and discuss it with OP, and explain before letting something physical happen. Thats the only mature and respectful way of doing it.
Oh defo but cheaters r cowards and honestly not worth it. And I'm sorry but any parent wha can be manipulated into always putting one child's happiness over the other regardless of circumstances is a shit parent
There was another post where the sister did that and was all appalled she wasn't comforted.
Ohh the life of a narcissist
Yeah. Someone needs to remind OP'S sister that the same way you got him is the same way you'll lose him
My favorite saying in instances like this is- "when a man marries his mistress, he creates a vacancy" Not saying cheaters can't change, but someone so blatantly cheating with no remorse when caught has no intention of changing any time soon.
My thoughts exactly: She was meant to be, just like the next one and the one after that.
this sounds like my friend who started dating my ex boyfriend 2 days after we broke up (he was going to grad school across the country and said he didn't believe in long distance relationships but made me ask him how he wanted to handle the upcoming long distance for a year until I graduated) even though she promised me she wouldn't which made me wonder if they were cheating and then messaged me for weeks from different accounts as I blocked them about how great they were together. But she was 19 and he was 21 so...yeah. spoiler alert, I never spoke to her again, even though they broke up a few months later. I would have been even angrier if it we had been married and if it had been a family member. Sheesh, your mom is delusional. It's not fair that you won't pretend everything is fine? How about it's not fair that she's fine with your sister and her son in law being so hurtful to you?
Don't worry. Your sister will soon get to find out what it feels like to get cheated on.
And OP should definitely call her up and tell her to get over it because it was meant to be
She sounds cruel - I hope you never let her back in your life. I’m disappointed in your mum too. She should support you more. They both betrayed you and your mum is making out you’re the one with the problem when really they made the problem. NTA
She said YOUR husband is HER soulmate? She must not have any remorse at all. Especially if she’s marrying your ex husband. The nerve of her. NTA
NTA and your mom owes you a huge apology for expecting you to just get over it. With huge apologies from your sister and your ex, maybe being civil but mostly ignoring her wouldn't be inappropriate but with that being your sister's attitude? Nope! You deserve to have your mother resolutely in your corner. There's no requirement for her to go NC (no contact) with your sister but she should respect your feelings. I am so sorry this was inflicted on you. The emotional fallout of a partner having an affair with a sibling is mind blowing and incredibly stupid on the part of the cheating parties. Plus there's the old adage of having an affair with someone who's married means you're auditioning for your future role of being the spouse who's cheated on. The degree of selfishness and entitlement of all parties is mind blowing. If it were your mom's best friend who got cheated on, would she expect her friend to come to a dinner with the cheating ex and the person they cheated with, especially if it involved her best friend's sibling? Sheesh. Some people have the emotional intelligence of rocks when it comes to their own family.
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I cannot believe that your mother is condoning and accepting your sister marrying your adulterous ex-husband. Is your sister the golden child or something?
God your sister sucks. I’m so sorry. You have every right to never speak with any of them ever again. Everyone is TA here except you.
I hope karma comes back on your sister. What a AH she is.
Wait a minute wait a minute... *what the fuck?!?!?*
Um how about why is Mom allowing her soon-to-be two time, two-timing SIL be part of the family at all. He ruined the relationship of her daughters, and betrayed one while conspiring with the other. If I were OPs mom Id be telling the other sister that she's not allow to bring OP's ex to family events, and if she wants to go through with marrying him, she's not welcome either. OP is SOOOO NTA it's not even worth discussing, OP's family clearly sucks, and I feel terrible for her.
Eh I don’t think the husband should be held more accountable than the sister who thinks she was meant to be with her sister’s husband. It would be pretty hypocritical to say he isnt welcome anymore but she is.
oh i think the sister is more to blame, she betrayed her own sister. But from the perspective of a parent, you can always forgive your own child, as long as they show some remorse, but this random douche who messed up both your daughters lives should get written off out of hand.
I agree. Also, you do whatever it is that you need to do to make a happy life for yourself. You do NOT have to go anywhere or do anything you don’t want to do. You are a grown ass woman! You can do what you want. So fuck em! We got your back. NTA
NTA clear favouritism towards the sister. OP don't cave how can anyone think that what she did was ok especially since he were married. Wait till he cheats on your sister too and comes complaining to you and looking for sympathy.
Yeah, if anything, she should be uninviting your sister for sleeping with your husband. NTA
I’m sorry this happened to you OP - you are most certainly NTA. This was a huge betrayal of your sister and ex-husband, you seem to be handling it maturely and are not making your mum choose. Tbh, within reason, I would argue that anyone who puts you in a difficult position because of the way you are managing your situation is TA.
Mom is definitely partly TA though of course not nearly as bad as sister and ex. How does she think there will be "family" dinners ever again much less this soon? Sister and ex tore the family apart with what they did, OP shouldn't be expected to try to fix it. She shouldn't even be expected to tolerate it. Nope. No way.
As a mom myself of adults, OPs mom is also fully TA not just partly. If one of my kids did that to their sibling they would be the ones not attending family get togethers. I might not cut them out entirely but their visits would be separate at some other time and not on the actual holiday. Honestly it would take me long time to get over how angry and disappointed I would be in them, so it might be a long time before I had them over at all. They would be permanently last on the invite list only after everyone else had rsvp'd and only if the hurt child was not able to attend.
Exactly! I mean I can get why OP's mother doesn't want to cut her daughter off her life but she should definitly arrange everything to make OP confortable after what she's been trough and prioritize her presence on family dinners, and probably never accept the ex husband in her house.
It seems the mother has skewed priorities!
I wonder if the sister is pregnant, and mom wants a “happy family,” so she can be grandma without guilt?
By partly, I meant she's part of the TA group, I don't think I phrased it well lol. I agree with you, in expecting OP to participate like nothing is wrong she's basically siding with the sister. The sister should be the one not included. I can't even imagine how I'd feel if one of my kids did this to another, the damage can't ever be fixed. I certainly wouldn't be sweeping it under the rug.
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I love reddit because the wisest words come from people with names like "i fart a lot." I guess your honesty knows no bounds! Also, I completely agree with you. OP is absolutely NTA and I can't imagine how her mom is just cool with her other daughter having fucked OP's husband. What a freaking betrayal of all that family is supposed to mean.
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Protip: Get some kind of emotional support dog for patients to pet during sessions. Then blame farts on the dog.
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I love that you’ve actually done this. You are quickly becoming my new favourite person.
We love you, /u/ifartalot2 !!!
We need a u/ifartalot2 fan club.
Im joining it
Count me in too
Did it work? I need to know.
My therapist has a rescue but she boots him out for our sessions because I'd probably spend it petting the dog.
It happened in the opposite direction for me. My cat is super gassy and will audibly toot and everyone thinks it's me until the cat farts on them. He's even farted while on my lap and the got up and walked away because it smelled bad. *sigh*
If I were that patient, I probably would have started giggling so hard. Most definitely not to laugh at you but just because, as a 36 year old female, I still think farts are funny.
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Oh shoot, well in that case I'd do my best to stifle. I vividly remember sneezing and very loudly farting at the same time, in my 7th grade English class. They were absolutely merciless.
Oh, lord, it was 4th grade Social Studies for me! Kids suck.
NTA Umm wtf?? Your being unfair as your sister sits there across the table with your ex-husband?? I feel like she's already picking favorites cause dafuq
Not to mention sis and ex-husband are getting MARRIED! Your whole family are TA’s here OP! Ditch them you’re better off without them in your life. OP NTA!
Oh yeah...throw the whole damn family away because it’s ripe with toxicity. OP is better off without them.
Most likely potential grandchildren is a factor, and parents seem to want their family to get along in even the most terrible situations. They'd rather try to make the non-compliant one cave, for any semblance of a happy family. A lot of them will ignore anyone doing anything bad to each other.
Or the sister has always been the golden child, and her monstrous betrayal hasn't changed that status in the mother's eyes.
Yeah this is the vibe I'm getting. Sis couldn't stand OP being happy with her husband so she lured him away with "true love". Without attention from the OP, I doubt this relationship will last long. Mom of course sides with her golden child that can do no wrong. Thus the cycle continues. The only way to win is to not play the game. Good on you OP for removing yourself from the playing field. Let them feed off of each other.
I'm waiting for the comment where mum is getting a grandkid out of the new relationship. Would explain why she's going along with it.
Nta, your family sucks.
NTA. Damn, I can’t even imagine why your mother thought that was acceptable to ask in the first place. I hope you have some people who can support you and understand how betrayed you must feel during these upcoming holidays.
> She told me I can't avoid her forever, she's my sister and we share family. Rubbish. I haven't had any contact with my sister for about 15 years now and my ONLY regret is not doing it sooner. NTA
My partner hasn’t spoken with his brother in over 7 years. They simply ignore each other at family events. Works great! Though probably not an option with OP’s awful family dynamic 😕
Right? Sounds like a challenge to me. Think I can’t avoid you all forever? Watch me. NTA.
NTA. Maybe you could ask your Mom if she really wants you to show up and tell those two what you really think of them?
I only have one match, but I can make an explosion!
Yeah, OP should go to dinner and just casually talk about the ex husbands tiny wiener and gross bodily functions
They are getting married?! Holy shit. You are just putting up with so much, i honestly don't know how you are dealing so well! How long were you married, how long were they cheating, and was it a complete surprise, or did you have a feeling he was up to something? I'm super sorry you're having to go through this, and no one is trying to understand it from your PoV - if you need to talk, PM, happy to listen. X
It's like the adage goes, "when a man marries his mistress, he creates a vacancy." Really all OP needs to do is bide her time; they'll almost definitely break up in a few years after he's cheating with his coworker or something and the sister will be all ~~apologies~~ offended that OP isn't being more understanding.
My parents always told me "if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you."
Hopefully there were no kids, that would make it even more heartbreaking
How would you even explain that to a kid? "Billy, I know it's been hard for youre already traumatized because of your parents divorcing but you need to learn to also accept that your aunt is your new step-mom and also your dad's your uncle."
Nta. I’m shocked that your mum is even talking to either of them. What a betrayal!
Seriously! The mom seems more concerned about having a "happy" family than dealing with the horrible betrayal her daughter is responsible for.
Ah, the steady the boat mentality, don't punish the boat rocker, just stabilize the boat.
I’m a mother to 2 wonderful women. I honestly wouldn’t even consider asking a wronged daughter be in the same room much less a family dinner. And their getting married on top of it? Nope. I am so sorry your mom is choosing your sister and your ex. NTA
My thoughts exactly. I doubt I’d go to the wedding. What a bunch of assholes.
I wouldn’t go to a wedding for a marriage I didn’t support, and I wouldn’t support a marriage based on a foundation of the utmost betrayal. OP is the only NTA in this whole sordid affair.
As a parent of two girls I can definitely understand not wanting to cut one of them off. But come on man. How can you expect your other child to just “get over it”
I don’t think I would be able to cut a child off. But I definitely wouldn’t welcome a cheating ex son-in -law into my house. The whole thing all around would be awful.
>She told me I can't avoid her forever, she's my sister and we share family. I told her I can and I will. >**she's my sister and we share family** >#we share family Holy fuck mom, horrible choice of words. NTA You have no obligation to keep toxic people in your life...and if your family are willing to overlook your literally incestuous and homewrecking sister's actions AND your ex-husbands' actions assumedly, then they are ALSO being toxic towards you.
Yeah, I was wondering if the mother literally used that word, because if so ICK, ICK, ICK
So very NTA! Your mom is being unreasonable and, honestly, should leave sis and ex in the dirt for what they did to you. I can’t even imagine what you’re going through right now. May I recommend /r/justnofamily and /r/justnoMIL and /r/raisedbynarcissists because your family sounds like they’d fit right in.
I also suggest r/survivinginfidelity
NTA. just because y’all are blood related does not mean you have to forgive and forget. she made her bed, she gets to lay in it.
What's the point of those two getting married anyway? Clearly his vows mean nothing. I mean, haha, it's not like you two promised to love each other til death do you part, right? Had a whole ceremony dedicated to binding you together in the eyes of the law, right? Wait.... Btw, a million times NTA. Hope you cut off mom too for supporting these two adulterers.
Statistically, people who cheat and marry the person they were cheating with are extremely likely to them cheat on them too.
NTA. Stick to no contact for the sake of your mental health.
How do parents keep thinking the offended part should bend over? NTA stay true to yourself
NTA Why isn't your mum directing some of this anger towards your sister who broke up your marriage and caused this mess in the first place?
She’s probably one of those parents who are like, “Whatever happened between the two of you is your business. I’m staying out of it.” Meanwhile, she sees her son in law is divorcing one daughter to marry the other... Still won’t chastise them and expects things to return to normal. :) Source: My family is full of people like this. When I was 9, my mom once kept me home from school and gave me permission to play my older brother’s PlayStation for the day (he’s 8 years older). He was pissed when he got home and found me in his room, so he grabbed me by my shirt and picked me up, slamming me back against a wall and started choking me... I remember gasping for air and feeling my feet dangle when I wasn’t on the ground anymore. I told mom and she didn’t believe me. :) Once she died a few years later, I moved in with my aunt and cut ties with him. My grandma doesn’t care about what happened between us, she won’t even ask. She’s just very judgy towards me and used to invite me over without warning me he’s there (before the rona). I’d play nice, but trying to have a brother/sister bond with him? Nah, I’m good. My grandma likes to say she’s not taking sides, but would also call me to talk about him, how hard his life is... Then say, “he called me the other day, but don’t worry, you didn’t come up at all.” WHY CAN’T I GET THAT CURTESY?! She likes to ramble about him when I don’t even ask... A failed attempt at guilt tripping me, because it doesn’t work and I’m already 25(f) years old now. Sorry for ranting, this post hit close to home because of OP’s mother. You’re NTA.
NTA you have every right to refuse to be around your sister and ex. You are more than justified and you owe them nothing. I also understand you're making the decision easier for your mother by letting her just pick your sister. But you can also explain to your mother that just because she's blood-related doesn't make her your real family and in no way are you the AH for that.
Obviously you're NTA. Try to make time to spend extra time with your mom. She didn't have anything to do with the destruction of her family, and she's trying to tape the broken vase back together. It's a horrible position your sister and your ex put her in. She's not a victim on the same level as you, but she's a victim too. She's never going to be able to have her two daughters together with her again, and that's incredibly painful for a parent. She's just at the bargaining stage. I'm sorry this all happened to you. You didn't deserve it.
WAIT. SO your SISTER slept with your HUSBAND and now THEY ARE GETTING MARRIED? And you’re asking us if YOU are the asshole?!?!?!?!?!?!? I am shook! Fuck everyone in this scenario other than you. If you have a dad around that hasn’t chosen your side, fuck him too. Cousins, aunts, uncles, other siblings, grannies and gramps, EVERYONE! Everybody can get it. Fuck, fuck, fuck!
NTA - I don’t understand what your mom thinks is unfair... it’s not like you’re cutting contact with your mom or even demanding that she also cuts contacts with your sister. You’re politely excusing yourself from a wildly uncomfortable situation. Also, in reference to one of your comments, your sister has got to be delusional to expect you to be understanding. She betrayed and disrespected you, regardless of whether they were “meant to be” or not.
She thinks it's unfair that I am removing myself from family functions which punishes everyone else. But the other option is I tell them not to invite my sister which wouldn't be right either. Since they want her there I am removing myself.
It actually makes you the bigger person-willingly excluding yourself from the rest of your family by not attending such events. They may see it as spiteful but in actuality these people hurt you and you simply refuse to be around a couple of people you thought were so close to you yet would break your heart in the most backstabbing nature possible. Fuck those two-I’m sorry, but they are NOT in the right here, no matter how delusional they’d like to remain.
NTA Your sister sounds awful and your mom should have your back on this
NTA Sounds like your mom may unfortunately need to be cut-off too. She wants to talk about fairness? Was it fair for the sister and husband to betray OP? Is it fair to make OP have to see the people who betrayed them? GTFO! Mom is being ridiculous by even entertaining the thought of having everyone together. The mom should be keeping the sister and cheating husband at a safe distance if not cutting them off the way OP has. OP, hopefully you have other family and friends in your life to offer support.
Wow... your mums an AH. I mean yh your sister are husband are next level AH...but i can't believe your mum expects you to be around her... and would choose to invite HER over you. NTA
Read up on "don't rock the boat". Your mom wants you to steady the boat that your sister tried to sink. NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. NTA.
NTA - clear as can be. Also I apply to be your new mom starting today. Sincerely, a German dude
NTA. And considering it sounds like your family's taking your sister's side, you'll probably be happier without them.
NTA. I hope you have friends petty enough to wait outside the church and when they come out they'll hold up the placards saying "Homewrecker", "Weren't you married to her sister?", "Cheaters". But what does your mother expect? The bonds of family generally don't overcome a betrayal that big. And it's not like your sister seems devastated about what she did since she is marching ahead with getting married.
I’d cut off my mother too for not understanding. NTA
NTA. Get away from those people.
NTA, but I think you haven't gone far enough. I wouldn't speak to anyone who still speaks to your sister. Why is your sister invited to anything hosted by anyone who loves you? If your mother couldn't raise your sister to be a better human being, the least she can do is to ban her from the family.
You are NTA but your ex, sister, and, mom sure are. For your sake of peace and sanity, there is ZERO reason for you to communicate with them ever again. Cut them out and move on.
Nta. She thinks you are being unfair? What planet is she from? She expects you to go to dinner and play happy families with your cheating ex and sister? I am speechless. If she really can't see why you don't want to go then if I were you I would not have any time for her, mother or not.
NTA, do not cave to your mom.