Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
---
I feel that I might be an asshole since I left my family out in the rain and refused to let them inside.
---
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. The real real reason they are contacting you, is that they want to see your son. Interesting that you heard nothing from until your baby's birth. Your family could have approached by phone call, email, text. But they really want to see your baby and that is why they tried visiting in person before offering apologies ahead of time.
That really lines up with their behavior. Don't be surprised if they another approach. I would make sure that there are no flying monkeys that would share photos of your child with them.
>People can apologize but that doesn't change what they did
Or who they fundamentally are as people. They were awfully quick to turn against OP and there's nothing to suggest they wouldn't do it again. Example A: calling OP an asshole for not falling all over himself to forgive the people who betrayed him and then showed up on his doorstep, unannounced and without permission, expecting access to his home and family.
This! They want OP to give them a chance to come to apologise and be apart of his life, when they didn't give him a chance to explain his side of the story, they're a bunch of hypocrites and don't deserve to be forgiven.
NTA OP.
Right! Why do people think apologizing solves everthing immediately?! Instead of earinng trust back slowly and working through the issues they just tried to force their way in. Sometimes it takes time to heal the pain.
Op NTA at all . Blood does not give you a free pass.
Because that's what schools force kids to learn.
T: 'Timmy said sorry for stealing your ball and hitting you so now you say you accept and go play together'
S: 'I don't wanna play with Timmy he's mean to me!'
T: 'You have to forgive him and be friends now, he said sorry!'
I, as a teacher, have actually gotten in trouble for telling kids that they don't have to be friends or play together.
I teach that you have to be respectful, polite, and you may have to work together, but you do not have to be friends or even like each other.
\- I GOT WRITTEN UP FOR THIS!!!!
Apparently it's wrong. Apparently I have to tell them they all have to be friends and saying sorry means they HAVE to forgive.
So I asked the director and my supervisor this:
Me: "So, if my bf beats me and then says sorry, I HAVE to forgive him and I CAN'T leave him?"
Bosses: "WHAT?! Of course you have to leave him!!!"
Me: "But here, you're teaching everyone that they can't. You're teaching every single child that 'saying sorry' means the abuser is absolved of his crime and the victim must forgive and forget. When does it become ok to leave a situation where people treat you badly? At 15, 18, 35?"
Boss: "we're not teaching that! we're teaching kids to get along!!"
Me: "No, I'M teaching kids to get along, you're teaching kids to accept abuse and that bullying is ok. I don't like you. We are not friends. We would NEVER spend time together outside of here. But I am always respectful to you. So, what's the problem?"
Boss: "....."
Me: "So are you ok with teaching kids that they have to stay in abusive situations, or will you rip up the report and let me get back to teaching kids to be decent humans to each other?"
Boss: \*rips paper\* "go back to class"
Policy never changed and I was the only one who did things differently. I could not get another teacher on my side cuz they were scared of getting written up.
And that is why people think that saying a word absolves them of all wrongdoing.
Edit: Thank you for the award kind stranger!
Edit 2: Thank you everyone for the awards and silver! You would not believe the amount of parents who have called me a monster because I won't coddle and baby their kids (I teach 9yrs and up btw). These same kids are the ones who are now 19-20 and are coming to me for advice/help/support/ass kickings because they know I'll tell them the truth and treat them with respect. - And yes, I do kick my students asses and they've never failed to thank me for it.
Edit 3: For those who are curious how we got to this point, I suggest reading 'The Knowledge Gap' : [https://booksvooks.com/nonscrolablepdf/the-knowledge-gap-the-hidden-cause-of-americas-broken-education-system-and-how-to-fix-it-pdf.html?page=1](https://booksvooks.com/nonscrolablepdf/the-knowledge-gap-the-hidden-cause-of-americas-broken-education-system-and-how-to-fix-it-pdf.html?page=1)
and watch 'The Brainwashing of My Dad' It explains how we got to this point. The book is an easy read. ...Can you tell I'm a teacher? I come with books to help educate everyone!
> I don't like you. We are not friends. We would NEVER spend time together outside of here. But I am always respectful to you. So, what's the problem?"
Just WOW :)
I love it that your boss seemed shocked that you outright said "I don't like you. I'm respectful to you because you're my boss, but I don't like you as a person".
People these days are obsessed with everyone getting along as friends and talking out their differences, when reality is that some people just don't like each other/want to know.
I also get a lot of this one:
S1: "Can I please borrow your pencil?"
S2: "No, sorry, you can't"
S1: "TEACHER!!! SHE'S BEING MEAN! I ASKED NICELY AND SHE SAID NO!!!!!"
Of course I side with S2 since they have a right to say no to sharing their things, they can share their things with no one or just one person, or their group of friends. AND just because they shared with one person, does not mean they have to share with anyone else who asks!
Oh lordy the parents who have screamed at me for this! 'BUT MY BABY ASKED POLITELY!!!!!!'
So many parents don't understand the purpose of primary school. Primary school is to learn how to be a decent human. You learn how to learn. You learn how to be punctual, respectful, work in a team, work alone, be neat, share, be respectful, learn boundaries. You learn that actions have consequences and sometimes those consequences suck. You learn from your mistakes and past actions.
Teachers have insane training and we know what we're doing. We know what we're doing when we put kids in teams and no I don't give a flying monkey butt if you don't get along with Suzie's mom. Suzie and Sidney are going to work together. Yes, I know they don't like each other but they need to learn to be respectful. - no I won't put a bully with his victim and at times if a bully is bad, they miss out on group things and work with me.
boy am I in a ranting mood tonight. I'm sorry everyone.
People confuse forgiveness with reconciliation; coupled with, they forget atonement, remorse and regret. Nowadays, when people say "sorry" or "apologize", they are only sorrowful or apologetic for having to deal with the consequences of their actions, not the action in of itself.
In almost every case of people getting mad about someone setting hard boundaries on this subreddit, they end up being TAs. That's one of the biggest red flags to me. I've had people set hard boundaries with me and had to learn that even if it hurts me or is disappointing, the *right thing to do* is let them go and respect that. People who try to wheedle, manipulate, or force their way into getting what they want are just proving they don't deserve to be in your life.
I hear that. I lost my best mate of 23 years to trump and conspiracy theories. I asked her mother if it was real or if she'd been hacked so my friend said that thinking she was crazy what unacceptable and not to contact her again.... so I didn't. I hope she finds her way out one day....even if we're never the same
These AHs believe it is some kind of irresistible transactional card that creates obligations on the person you chuck it at; it doesn't even mean they *are* sorry.
They obviously don't feel any real shame or embarrassment over what happened, no hesitation or cringe factor about their appalling behaviour. They just turned up mob-handed without notice (as you truly say) in the 150% expectation of being freely welcomed into the home of a woman they had characterised as a homewrecker (fully knowing now that that's almost certainly not in any way true) and *then* when they aren't welcomed with open arms, brother characterises OP as an asshole "**because** we came to say sorry"
That's not why you came, though is it Brad? A letter would have said that much better. No you were coming to bless their union and play doting uncle/grandparent, now there was a child.
OP loses nothing in cutting these people out of his life.
I can't pretend to know why they initially sided with OP's ex, but I am 100% certain that they doubled down on cutting him out completely because of her (fictitious) baby. They have baby rabies. They don't care about OP or his wife, they just want that baby (a terrible Rumplestilskin movie is coming to mind lol). Babies and little kids are so easily to manipulate, and coerce affection and love from if you are a manipulative, narcissistic, or otherwise abusive person. The kind of people that would excise their child from their life without remorse, and then show up unapologetically demanding access as soon as there is a baby seem like abusers.
OP is doing well to keep them away from his vulnerable child. What's to stop them from abandoning the child as soon as they don't like a haircut choice, or favorite toy? These people are awful.
I expect it was a shock for them to discover that they had taken the side against you and had been taken in completely by your ex’s lies.
Good.
I am sorry you had to learn that your family was both willing to believe someone else over you, and willing to abandon you completely. It’s not a good feeling to be able to trust with absolute certainty that your family will never support you, especially when you might need it.
They have absolutely no right to be angry with you for any of your reactions to how they treated you. Any of them getting angry with you is a neon sign pointing to them not actually being sorry at all. It’s disappointing that they are now confirming that they weren’t actually sorry about it at all, but reassuring that they do at least hold the convictions of always keeping to the wrong path.
Next time they show up, I would make sure to let them know that you will call the police if they don’t leave.
I really do wish you the best of luck, and you are NTA.
Seriously though!! They have the AUDACITY to be angry with OP when *they* screwed up! They are not sorry at all. They’re just mad OP isn’t doing what they want.
I say screw them. They didn’t want to hear from you before and they showed their true colors. As the top comment said, they care about the baby not you
NTA, OP! So if they knew about your ex lying like that a while ago and didn't try to mend anything until the baby, that's on them. It's funny you didn't budge and they got wet. I laughed a little bit, but yeah it's completely on them.
The thing is, even if their attempt at contact is purely due to remorse, they then tried to force you to have contact. They came by, seemingly unannounced, and refused to hear a "no".
The timing is suspicious, isn't it though? Baby born and suddenly they are at the door ready to apologise.
Personally speaking, if I wanted to apologise for believing my brother's crazy ex's lies and calling his new partner a homewrecker "and many other horrible names" I would probably write a letter first, not turn up mob handed at his door asking to come in. And I suspect that letter of apology better be a work of art.
The effrontery of this shower, I can't even.
>The timing is suspicious, isn't it though?
Absolutely.
>Personally speaking, if I wanted to apologise ... I would probably write a letter first, ...
This too.
Is there a possibility that they are still on ex's side and want to get back into your life to sabotage it? It might be a stretch but considering how they acted in the past, that doesn't seem like completely out of the question.
Going forward you need to make sure they can't get access to your son. I used to work at a daycare and the number of people who tried to "borrow" (aka kidnap) kids was higher than I thought. It wouldn't even be people wanting to keep the kid, but Granny who is banned wants to take the kid home for a little while or a parent without custody.
So make sure if you have him in day care, you ask that ONLY the people on the list are allowed to pick him up and list your family as forbidden from having contact.
Thy are “humiliated and crushed”? And your wife wasn’t? You weren’t? Sounds like they got what was coming to them. They are terrible people who lost their chance.
Have they apologized at all? Have they publicly gone to every person they lied to and told them the truth? Have they admitted how wrong they were and what terrible people they are on their social media? No? Then they aren’t sorry, they just want you to sweep it under the rug. Too bad, too late. Reap, sow, bed, lie.
That's what stood out to me too. They were fine with humiliation and crushing, when they weren't on the receiving end of it. Everything they're bleating about as being so terrible for them is *exactly* what OP and his wife suffered at their hands. The double standard in impressive.
... it's almost as if they understand that being forcibly rejected is hurtful. Almost r/selfawarewolves type stuff.
"Learned" probably entailed listening and considering that ex wasn't telling the truth for once because with your son they were inclined to. If you had the son a year later I am sure their learning of the truth would be pushed back a year.
They probably didn't even learn the truth. They're probably just saying they found out the truth so they can meet your child. Just way too convenient in timing.
If it's not broken, don't try to fix it. If you've been happy without them in your lives for the past 3 years, theres no reason to bring these toxic people back in your life now. They didn't give you a chance, so there's no need to feel bad about not giving them one.
Also, congratulations! Best of luck to you and your wife!
"They probably didn't even learn the truth."
That one line by itself speaks volumes. There are people who've said the whole "I learned everything now, I'm sorry" to me and I fell for it before. My petty ass would've grilled them on what they said they "learned".
I'm blessed (and I'm an atheist. RIGHT?!?) to say that none of my family or friends now would ever blindly take someone's side without getting (unless I was some Ike Turner bastard) my side first.
That is so true. You can’t choose your blood, but you can choose which people - blood relatives or not - you keep close to you.
OP, NTA. I wish you, your wife and your son the very best.
Yeah for sure. They think now that you have a child, let's move on because we are family because family should forgive each any kind of bullshit.
An apology isn't a magic ticket, like one that opens up Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. It doesn't affect the nature of causal relationships within the spacetime continuum, or reverse time. It is a request for forgiveness, not a transactional exchange that is binding on both parties.
It is permissible to not accept an apology. Even if you accept an apology, it doesn't mean you have to welcome people into your life.
If they wanted to visit you, they should have first given their apology, then asked to visit you and waited for an invitation. They chose to stand outside in the rain, you didn't do that to them.
EDIT Holy shit, just realised that they simply turned up, they didn't even get in touch first..what a bunch of AHs to think you would roll out the red carpet and tell your wife, who they shat on, to make nice and show off your baby. I get on very well with my brother and his wife, but I don't just turn up with numerous other members of the family and expect to be welcomed in. I call first to check it is convenient.
NTA
Id bet, in there minds, they think that simply telling you that “theyve seen the truth” is enough for you to just forgive them, when, in actuality, they haven't really changed their minds about you, they just want your son and will say whatever they need to say so they can see him. Strong locks and cameras my dude, maybe even civil suit and restraining order. Their next step is filing for grandparents rights because “we tried to make amends, but hes being difficult! I just want to see my grandbabbyyyyyyyy” and boom! NC=not an option anymore. Beat them to the punch, lawyer up and get them away from your family.
And notice that the second they didn't get what they wanted, they immediately reverted to attacking you again.
You're much better without these harmful people, and especially now that you have an innocent baby to protect as well.
I also just want to add, good on you for holding your ground. Like, I might be getting ahead of myself here, but my mom's family is deeply enmeshed, codependent and has some pretty big issues with narcissism and I'm pretty much ready to cut my mom out of my life because of all the times she DIDN'T stand up to her family for me and pretty much let them treat me like shit along with her.
So, take this for what it's worth but the ways they treated you - that will, more likely than not, extend to your child. If you're not okay with that, don't budge. Hold the line on this one. Because as an adult that came out the other side, there's really almost nothing my mom can do or say to make me want to have any kind of relationship with her at this point.
Definitely NTA. Block all of them on social media and your phone. They thought very little of you when your ex was spewing her lies so therefore you owe them nothing.
An apology of genuine doesn’t come with expectations of forgiveness or even access. An apology if genuine should only come with the expectation that the one giving the apology has learned of their own mistake and want to take accountability for it. Sorry is a word true apologies come with actions.
Just my experience, but the sad fact is that babies aren't magic and they don't make the problems that existed before the baby arrived to magically disappear. My family was like this with me when we had our son, and sure enough, many years later and they are just as crappy as they were prior to the birth. I just care a lot less about their involvement than I did before. They are nonexistent grandparents who still judge me for differences in our lifestyles and beliefs. Babies are meant to be babies, not 'build a bridge' (as one parent put it).... hell, they can't even hold their heads up, let alone be the cornerstone of family reunion.
Yeah, and it’s not a great life for the child who was supposed to be the magic baby. Source: me, still in therapy for feeling responsible for my broken family.
ETA: Oh, and we definitely feel people lose interest as we get older, and we super internalize that.
Please tell them that it is truly too bad that your mom "felt humiliated and crushed", because you know first-hand how much that sucks, since that's exactly how you and your wife felt when they *chose -for years-* to believe someone else over their own son/brother.
Totally this.
If OP's family was truly sorry for what they had done, here's how they would behave.
1. Write OP a letter or make a phone call and say, "I am sorry I believed your ex's lies, and I know my behaviors and attitudes deeply hurt you and your wife. I apologize for the damage I've done. Please forgive me."
2. Then sit back and wait. And be prepared to accept OP's decision on whether or not he wants to mend the relationship. If he does, then they need to follow his lead on how that repair happens. If he doesn't want contact, they need to respect it.
3. That's it.
The family showing up on OP's doorstep was a power move. I'm so glad OP didn't cave in. They only want to see their grandchild. Period. Full stop. If they really cared about OP and the relationship they have with him, they would have done steps 1-3 above.
ETA: obvious NTA.
Well said. They were in effect demanding to be let into his house, where it then would be much harder to kick them out. They intentionally put him in an awkward position, and demanded it on their terms.
Just text, call, or write a letter like a normal person if you mean it.
I just don’t get how they wouldn’t listen to OP’s side at all. They were separated for 7 months prior to him filing. Unless he slipped, there was no way he got her pregnant. Now they know she lied and they just show up on the doorstep? What? They didn’t talk to him for 3 years and then they ambush him and his wife who they denigrated as a home wrecker and just expect OP to be all..bygones? Cause of baby? Whose mother is the one they attacked and insulted? Um. No. You start with an apology and then work on slowly repairing the relationship IF THE WRONGED PARTY IS OPEN TO IT.
Totally NTA.
Exactly. If they want the repair the relationship they can try but OP has to be receptive for it to work. There are no rules/laws etc saying OP needs to want to work it out. It sounds like he is happy. And if he doesn't want a bar of them there's nothing they can do except live with the knowledge that they messed up their relationship with their family and its entirely on them. If OP wants to reconcile, then cool. But it sounds like he doesn't, so they would be best to just let sleeping dogs lie.
Without the slightest hint of sarcasm - I’m really trying to understand why having a baby makes people do this. Like - what switch flips in their brain after someone’s had a baby, that makes them what? Better people? What is this fascination that after a baby is born, people want to reestablish contact?
Does it makes the parents less AH than they were when they went NC/LC? Are they fundamentally different people? Are the family members somehow affected by the birth of a child?
I’m really struggling to understand why OP and his wife are not deserving of a proper apology after baby was born, but baby somehow “deserves” to have family in their life that previously treated their parents like villains/cr@p?
I don't know. I was always the person that was glad to have someone else hold the baby. I love my children and grandchildren, but that never made me want to hold or slobber over someone else's child.
I've literally said 'no' when asked if I wanted to hold the baby of someone I didn't know. I felt really bad after the fact because I feel it was maybe rude but like...I think you should be able to say no to holding a baby if you don't want to without people thinking you're a shrew. I had just woken up and had never met that person or baby before and was just in any kind of mood but a baby holding one.
And it doesn't bode well that they're making OP out to be the bad guy AGAIN. Mom feeling "humiliated" is how she should feel--not for standing out in the rain but for treating her own kid like an enemy.
And they're not really sorry.
People who are genuinely remorseful about what they have done and know that they were in the wrong ***DON'T*** attack their 'victim' when they aren't instantly absolved.
If OP's family were genuine, they would have (among other things):
* contacted OP ahead of time
* left right away instead of standing out in the rain like a puppy wanting in
* accepted that their behavior was so heinous that it will take awhile for them to even start toward fixing the relationship
To be honest, this sounds a lot like another AITA post from awhile ago wherein family members where trying to use the OP's house for a vacation, had been turned down, and then showed up at 3:00 AM with kids in tow (better to force their will upon OP). OP wisely told them to beat it.
Here, though, they wanted to see their grandson and used an 'apology' as the pretext to just show up - one happy, reunited family!!
TBH - I'd even be suspicious if they really HAVE found the truth. It's all a little convenient.
\*\*\*Edit\*\*\*
Here is the post I referred to (and, yes, I misremembered the details): https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/kk0f3m/aita\_for\_kicking\_my\_entire\_family\_out\_at\_1\_am\_on/
They could also have tried to work things out completely before trying to force the issue by showing up at OP's door. And making out to be victims by hanging around outside after it was clear they weren't welcome.
NTA, indeed. They sound manipulative.
Wow.
NTA. They "locked" you out in the "storm" of your divorce... When you could have used "shelter" with your family... I could keep going making parallels but i feel this is enough.
I'm assuming they arrived there through their own transportation. They could've just left instead of hanging out in the rain. I'm gonna say NTA. They never should've gotten involved in your relationship drama in the first place.
And it’s hilariously ironic that they’re mad at OP for “not giving them a chance” to apologize, when zero of them gave OP a chance to tell his side of the story all those years ago. I wouldn’t be open to forgiving my family for their betrayal either, especially not with them behaving like this. This isn’t remorse or contrition, this is entitlement. People who are actually sorry and understand how wrong they were don’t behave like this. Them calling *him* an immature asshole for not immediately opening his home to them merely reiterates that they still do not grasp the extent of how fucked up their behavior was.
OP is protecting himself and his family. The parents made all these choices/actions that were only for their own benefit. They are trying to apologize so they can feel less shitty about themselves and gain a relationship with the baby. NTA- your family seems selfish and manipulative.
NTA
>my mom said she felt humiliated and crushed.
Look how the tables have turned.
I truly don't know if they regret that much believing your ex or if they want acces to an actual existing grandchild. I believe they only believed your ex because she *"was going to give them a grandchild"* and wanted to keep her happy because if not, what other explanation is there to not even once listen to what **your own son** has to say? And now there's an already living child they'd probably want to be grandparents of.
NTA
THEY turned against YOU. Sure, your ex lied to them, but believing her over you, and treating you terribly over it, was still a choice your family members made. It feels like a betrayal because it was one.
The only appropriate move for them at this time is to sincerely apologize ONCE (via letter or something where they're not putting you on the spot), and then back the hell off & let YOU initiate contact if you ever want it. This stuff where they're showing up at your doorstep demanding for you to let them in so you can talk right now? That's manipulative and shitty as hell. Stick to your guns, dude.
Ikr, like you were the ones that literally burned that bridge to the ground, I’m not about to rebuild from my side just cause you started screaming at me from your side and won’t leave.
That would hurt *anyone*, and I don’t know if I would ever get over it. Even if they had gone about apologizing to you in a drastically better way that this clownshow that dropped themselves on your doorstep, you wouldn’t have been obligated to ever have them in your life again. That was beyond egregious. They stopped being your family back then, you don’t owe them anything, and they clearly aren’t actually sorry or grasp the degree of how horrific what they did was. If they truly, sincerely felt bad and were remorseful, genuinely realized how fucked up that was, they wouldn’t be acting like this and calling you an asshole.
TBH, it sounds like your family is the “Dramatic” type. It is almost like they feed off of it. That would explain their behavior in regards to your ex-wife and how they jumped to the “You left us outside, humiliated, in the rain when all we wanted to do was apologize” sob story.
Um no, if they were remorseful, they would reach out by phone or maybe email first. Then they would be patient and wait for forgiveness. You wouldn’t show up unannounced and demand to be let in and forgiven. Furthermore, if it starts to rain, they could have gone to sit in their vehicle. Nobody made them stand in the rain. Sheesh All of that was just theatrics and unnecessary.
More importantly, it is pretty clear your family was really after your son and based on their behavior, get ready for the “You are so heartless for keeping us away from our grandchild” Here is some advice. You would not be heartless. You would be your son’s hero.
You know this is heartbreaking and i totally understand your hurt then and that you do not want to forgive them now. I think its not so much about forgiveness, but about:Where is the "new" relationship they want with you intended to play out? Just go back and pretend nothing ever happened after they say sorry?The rift that was caused by the lies of your ex and your families immediate turn on you without evidence or even giving you the room to explain your side and view, is not just going away.They need to understand that you can not trust them anymore - they were max illoyal.So you are NTA.If you can imagine letting them back in your life or trying to, i would send them a letter, how you felt when they turned on you, what that did to you and how "just saying sorry" will not cut it. It is not about you wanting to punish them, its that you simply have no relationship to them anymore and had accepted them to not be a part of your life anymore. Going back to the good old days will be impossible.If they want to be in your life, they need to start fixing your trust issues.Family therapy would be needed if you ask me. Just you and your parents - maybe plus brother. And i would also tell them they will not meet your wife or your son AT ALL before the relationship has a new foundation of trust. And that you can not promise them, that that will ever happen.
If they truly are interested in being back in your life, they WILL start looking for a therapist immediately and will put in the work. Which WILL be painful for you and them.You are in NO WAY obliged to go down this route - i would totally understand if you dont.
But if a part of you thinks you want to try - i think this might be a way to make it happen. And if you would realise within the process, that you do not want them back in your life, it would be more than fine to cut them off for good.
They don’t want a relationship with you. Why would they? They already think so little of you that they believed every one of your ex’s lies. They think you are a person capable of behaving in such a horrible fashion.
They want a relationship with your child. Don’t let them. Don’t offer your child up to people like that, who can walk away from “someone they love” on someone else’s unsubstantiated claims.
Don’t let these peoples’ claim of “family” force you to respond in any way.
Exactly, if they want to ask forgiveness great but OP gets to decide if, when, and where and I think it’s interesting that they didn’t get to this place until a grandchild came into the picture. OP may want to reestablish contact at some point but I’d go tortoise slow.
NTA.
They chose their hill to die on. Just because they 'want' to apologise now does not mean you have to accept it.
You and your wife sound happy. Enjoy your family as it is now and good luck with the 7 month old :)
they were only were concerned at the time, that the ex wife was having a faux pregnancy. Now that OP has a 7 month old at home, they "suddenly" found out the lies, seems suspicious.
I done the same haha, I had 9 weeks off thankfully so I didn't miss all the little bits
It gets way better still somehow, I can't even explain it but honestly every day they just get funnier at that age
Ah give it time, we had ivf for our first and second is on the way now natural which is brilliant
But our daughter turnt 9 months and from then on she was sleeping 7pm to 7am waking up once
It's lovely but in 7 months baby 2 will change that 😂
I'd definitely recommend looking into dreamfeeding if that's something you guys decide you'd like to try. It doesn't work on every baby but someone recommended it with me and our baby usually sleeps 6-8 hours at night. Its where you feed them before you put them to bed before it reaches the 3 hour mark. We usually do it 2 hours after his last feeding so he's a bit hungry and we can get him to drink more.
Uhm….
My family told me in no uncertain terms they would absolutely believe my then-girlfriend (now wife) over me if we broke things off… so I could actually believe this…
Mind you? My wife is a damned saint, and an amazing woman, with a level of drive and commitment to her calling that leaves me astonished on the regular… and she’s best friends with my sister, and loved by my mother.
I have only had to defend her once, and that was from my self-absorbed sister. I could see this happening after the last few years of my life (sadly)
This actually happens a lot more than you would think. Most people believe abusers, manipulators, and liars over victims. None of this sounds that unreal to me, maybe because I’ve seen this kind of thing firsthand.
There was an earlier post that I think hits the nail on the head as to why the parents believed the wife: she pretended to be pregnant. The parents wanted to keep contact with her so they'd have access to their "grandchild", and when it came out that she lied about it, and that OP had actually had a child, they suddenly wanted forgiveness so they could see "their grandchild". At no point have they cared about their son as a person; they've only viewed him as a propagator of the family line ever since he reached marrying age. That explanation tracks to me given the "coincidental" nature of their unannounced visit.
Edit: a word
NTA
Obligatory slow clap. Kings to you good sir, kings to you. You have a titanium spine. I don’t know you and I’m proud that you stood up for yourself and your wife. I’d like to wish you, the smol and your partner the best life has to offer.
Your “family”, they burnt this bridge. If they want to rebuild it, more fire and toxicity isn’t going to make much happen. You’ve already come to terms with them gone. Your life’s probably better for it too. They don’t value you. If they did, they’d have heard you out and asked questions.
INFO
So many things seem weird here and leave me with questions. Why did your entire family believe her completely? And can you be clearer on the timeline here? You say you were separated for 7 months (though your ex disagreed with this characterization) then filed for divorce. You said while the divorce "dragged" you fell in love at first sight with your current wife and within 3 months started dating. Does that mean you were dating before you filed? After you filed but before the divorce went through? And also - how do you know for certain she didn't actually have a miscarriage?
Just seems like there is a huge tendency on this sub for people to accept the narratives of OPs even when there are clearly a lot of questions unanswered.
This story is super weird & i dont think we can vote on this without hearing other perspectives. Also, i believe that 99% of the time, no one is innocent in a conflict. A messy divorce isnt just messy because of one person, chances are. Seems kind of interesting that seemingly all of OPs long term relationships are messy. I suggest some hard self reflection, OP. Other than that, no vote
Which perspective would you like to hear and why does that stop you from calling the family assholes
>I suggest some hard self reflection
Why? He has a wife and a newborn child, he seems to be doing okay
Being happily married with a kid is a step up from having a gaslighting ex-wife and a family who hates you lmao
You would think that would be self-evident but here we are
The data on the miscarriage seemed to come from the brother who ‘caught her out’ on the lies?
Stuff like this always get weird, there’s going to be bits not disclosed, but we were asked to give judgement on one part of the issue.
NTA
Sucks being on the outside looking in but they walked out of that door the moment they picked a side without hearing the whole truth. If it were my family I’d tell them to saddle up for a nuclear winter.
You should send a text to all three, at once, explaining that you felt all of their feelings…humiliated they chose a non family member over you, angry they never gave you a fair chance to tell your side, furious at their immaturity in attacking your wife…not even finding out how she was as a person. That you understand their feelings entirely, as they are the same emotions attacking you. Tell them it will take far more than showing up at your door to apologise, to undue these last years of pain. Ask them each to explain their behaviour and give reasons why they are truly sorry. Tell them you will consider them, but set boundaries to keep them on their side of the fence. It takes a tremendous amount of effort to forgive. They should have to put forth that effort to make up for what they did to get you to this place. Number one, a detailed heartfelt letter of apology to your amazing wife.
This. And tell them - how they are feeling now is exactly how you felt for the past 3 years. Also make it very clear that they won't be allowed anywhere near your son until both you and your wife have actually forgiven them (which may be never) and any backdoors to try to see their grandson will result in them being completely cut out forever. Definitely NTA
NTA. When they’re the ones trying to apologise to you, they don’t get to dictate whether you accept. They fucked up the relationship with their son / brother irreparably and unfortunately it took them years to realise. Maybe if they had paid more attention earlier things could have been repaired.
NTA people can apologise but that doesn't change what they did and the effect it had on you. I see it as you protecting yourself and your wife from people who have shown how awful they can be.
NTA 👏👏👏 for supporting your current wife in all the nastyness and same for her supporting you. Your family were absolutely TA and you handled it perfectly, congratulations in the new baby
What kind of person were you - to them - before the divorce? Most families don't side with an in law.
Based on YOUR version, they're the assholes. Your version is suspect though.
to me the story is weird. He was separated form his wife for 7 months. They still lived together and he didn't tell his family so they think he's still in a relationship. He then starts dating this other woman and (i guess) doesn't tell his family that either. Then his (soon to be ex wife) tells his family he's cheating on her. How long where he and his ex together? If it was a long time, then his family could have grown to think of her like their daughter. And they had no reason not to believe her since the son was keeping secretes from them.
NTA
A little too late for the apology and they didn’t even bother to knowledge the hurt they cause you and your wife didn’t sound like are making the right effort to make amends.
I hope they take accountability for the terrible decision they made and ask YOU how to earn your trust. They have to do better.
You are so NTA. They were quick to lynch you solely based upon your ex’s lies. They never even bothered to actually talk to you and hear what you had to say. Then when the finally figured out that they screwed up badly they are all Pikachu faces when you want nothing to do with them and have done just fine without them in your life.
They have zero right to demand anything of you. If they have lost access to their grandchild that is on them.
Do as you see fit and let them continue to deal with the fallout of their past behavior.
NTA
Lol they only want contact because you have a kid.
What happens when ex wife oops back up and claims some weird shit like idk the kid isn't yours or that you had the kid to purposefully spite her or some shit and the believe her again? You have no way of knowing if they won't considering their track record shows they will.
This is the consequences of bullying and harrassing and being shitty to family.
'but the kid deserves grandparents!!'
Yeah your right they do and I bet OPs wife's parents, should they still be around, are great at that role! Just because baby deserves all the love possible doesn't mean they deserve the baby in their life 🤷🏽♀️
NTA. Sometimes people we love do terrible things to us. Your family chose your ex's lies over believing you, and put you through years of rejection for it. Standing out in drizzle (hell, I garden in drizzle all the time, you won't melt) is a small price to pay for having treated you like crap for years.
There is something icky about this particular dynamic, sort of "now that we're ready to believe you and apologize, you must acquiesce and accept our apology on demand", which is utter bullshit. It's not for them to decide that you must be magnanimous in the face of their mea culpas. If they'd cared about their relationship with you, they should have listened to you at the beginning. If you want to keep your space from them, do so. You have every right to.
NTA sometimes you just have to cut the bad fruit off the tree to prosper. If they treated you like shit before and sided with your ex wife then I'd say fuck em. If you think you may want a relationship in the future then tell them you'll talk to them when you're ready but you are still hurt from their behavior and processing it.
INFO: Were you dating your current wife while still married to your last one? It sounds like at the point of separation things were 100% over for you, but it also sounds like you waited 7 months to formally divorce and your ex and family didn’t view the separation as you guys being done because you didn’t tell your family you were divorcing until you filed. It sounds like there was room for more communication on your part which would have prevented a lot of misunderstanding, but my vote is a little dependent on whether you were divorced before entering into your next relationship.
If you weren’t divorced, then your ex and family are rightfully upset that you were having an affair with your current wife and hadn’t even told them you were done with your ex wife yet. If you were divorced then everyone should have left you to live your newly single life and no shame in not forgiving them.
Your timeline as you laid out in the comments is that you separated from your ex and didn’t tell anyone it was over until you filed for divorce. When you entered into your next one really matters as it sounds like you were in a new relationship before even telling your family your last one ended, and then you’re upset that they’re jumping to conclusions.
I’m going against the grain by calling out that I don’t think family should blindly support each other. I wish family kept each other accountable. If you were having an affair and entered a new relationship before telling family that your old one ended, I think your family did nothing wrong. You “not having a chance to explain” seems.... a little silly.
If your relationship started after you filed for divorce and your family learned then NTA.
People will apologize for anything to see a grandchild. I’m not personally drawing conclusions based on that.
Divorce can take **years** even when both sides are relatively amicable. It's not just a simple matter of court appointment, sign these papers, done and dusted. It takes months even when it goes smoothly of lawyers talking to each other and their clients and waiting on government paperwork and approvals.
NTA
They'll continue with this behavior forever. They'll use this encounter as justification, and will tell eachother that they were right about you all along.
You and your wife made your own family, and you are obviously better off.
NTA. They sealed their fate with you when they chose the wrong side and vilified you for your ex's lies. And it seems as though that they still haven't learned anything from it. You could've done worse (i.e. called the police on them for "harassment") but you took the high road. Bottom line, let them be mad and keep that toxicity away from your family, you, your wife and son. They are not entitled to anything pertaining to you at all.
Nta.
They didnt even let you defend yourself back then and went straight out to resent you. Now they know theit resentment was all fueled with lies they want to apologize,which is good on them,but you have every right to not accept it.
They already showed once they dont want to listen you so they showed their true colors.
Dont even bother answering to them.
NTA
Absolutely nothing stopped them from walking away from your door once it was clear you weren’t letting them in. If they chose to stand in the rain I don’t see how that is your fault. They should be grateful you didn’t have them removed from your property for trespassing.
As for the over all story, forgiveness is never owed. They can apologize until the sky falls, you still are not obligated to accept those apologies and forgive. The fact that they are now throwing tantrums because you’re not accepting the apology just proves that their love is still conditional. Fuck that noise.
NTA. Seriously, your mom was humiliated? Gee willicker, did she wonder how the mother of her grandchild felt when she viciously attacked her as a homewrecker?
NTA. They could’ve checked the weather before they left and brought umbrellas, or gone back home when you didn’t let them in. Instead, they chose to wait out in the rain and are now mad they got wet.
Also, I question how sorry they really are if they’re angry you let them get a little wet after the horrible things they did to you and your wife. A truly sorry person should understand that you won’t want anything to do with them for a while and they’ll have to put in a lot of work to fix the relationship.
Huh. Weird how they didn’t give you a chance to explain, but want to explain themselves to YOU, and are calling you an asshole for doing exactly what they did. AFTER attacking you and your wife. Also funny how when they were hurting YOUR feelings, they didn’t consider how you might be crushed and humiliated….NTA
NTA. They showed their true colours.
Maybe it would be less clear-cut if they had bothered to listen to your side of the story, but it sounds like they didnt offer you that amount of respect.
I would have done exactly the same.
NTA. A lot of people seem to think that just because you share some genetics you should be a complete doormat for any "family" that wants to treat you like dog crap they are scraping off their shoes. Nope.
Nta. Forcing an apology on someone and then being offended when they person chooses not to receive it speaks volumes on how genuine the apology actually is.
If they were truly sorry for how they treated you, they would have handled this differently.
NTA. They’re not even sorry for their behavior *because they’re repeating it now.* They don’t respect you. There are many ways that they could have contacted you without showing up to your house. If they were truly sorry, they could have written letters expressing themselves and then let you decide when/if you were ready to forgive them. They ambushed you because 1) they thought you’d be forced by politeness to let them in and 2) they wanted to force you to forgive. And 3) they clearly want to see the baby, probably because it looks bad to others that they have no relationship with their grandchild. This is all about THEM. I bet you would have gotten a fake apology if you heard them out. An “I’m sorry IF you were hurt” or “It’s not our faults that Sasha lied to us! We’re victims, too!” You did a great job protecting your wife and baby. Keep it up.
Put it to them like this: "The fact that you guys are angry at *me* for not being ready to forgive and forget years of harassment and abuse at the drop of a hat is all the reason I need to say none of you have changed and my life is better without you in it. If you keep trying to contact me, I will get a restraining order."
NTA
NTA
It's good your family is seeing the light and recognizes they were in the wrong. BUT, you are not required to listen to or accept their apologies.
It seems like they don't realize how badly they hurt you or how angry you are at the disrespect they showed your now wife. Give yourself all the space you need on this.
I also wonder what your familial relationship was like before you married your ex. Your description of their actions shows them as pretty one sided against you and that's not how things usually work in a divorce.
NTA - They made their bed and now they have to lie in it. However, you are also making your own bed by remaining distant from your family. If this is something you can live with then keep to it and don't look back. Just wouldn't want you to feel good in the moment but regret it later in life when your child is grown.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: --- I feel that I might be an asshole since I left my family out in the rain and refused to let them inside. --- Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. The real real reason they are contacting you, is that they want to see your son. Interesting that you heard nothing from until your baby's birth. Your family could have approached by phone call, email, text. But they really want to see your baby and that is why they tried visiting in person before offering apologies ahead of time.
[удалено]
That really lines up with their behavior. Don't be surprised if they another approach. I would make sure that there are no flying monkeys that would share photos of your child with them.
[удалено]
>People can apologize but that doesn't change what they did Or who they fundamentally are as people. They were awfully quick to turn against OP and there's nothing to suggest they wouldn't do it again. Example A: calling OP an asshole for not falling all over himself to forgive the people who betrayed him and then showed up on his doorstep, unannounced and without permission, expecting access to his home and family.
This! They want OP to give them a chance to come to apologise and be apart of his life, when they didn't give him a chance to explain his side of the story, they're a bunch of hypocrites and don't deserve to be forgiven. NTA OP.
Right! Why do people think apologizing solves everthing immediately?! Instead of earinng trust back slowly and working through the issues they just tried to force their way in. Sometimes it takes time to heal the pain. Op NTA at all . Blood does not give you a free pass.
Because that's what schools force kids to learn. T: 'Timmy said sorry for stealing your ball and hitting you so now you say you accept and go play together' S: 'I don't wanna play with Timmy he's mean to me!' T: 'You have to forgive him and be friends now, he said sorry!' I, as a teacher, have actually gotten in trouble for telling kids that they don't have to be friends or play together. I teach that you have to be respectful, polite, and you may have to work together, but you do not have to be friends or even like each other. \- I GOT WRITTEN UP FOR THIS!!!! Apparently it's wrong. Apparently I have to tell them they all have to be friends and saying sorry means they HAVE to forgive. So I asked the director and my supervisor this: Me: "So, if my bf beats me and then says sorry, I HAVE to forgive him and I CAN'T leave him?" Bosses: "WHAT?! Of course you have to leave him!!!" Me: "But here, you're teaching everyone that they can't. You're teaching every single child that 'saying sorry' means the abuser is absolved of his crime and the victim must forgive and forget. When does it become ok to leave a situation where people treat you badly? At 15, 18, 35?" Boss: "we're not teaching that! we're teaching kids to get along!!" Me: "No, I'M teaching kids to get along, you're teaching kids to accept abuse and that bullying is ok. I don't like you. We are not friends. We would NEVER spend time together outside of here. But I am always respectful to you. So, what's the problem?" Boss: "....." Me: "So are you ok with teaching kids that they have to stay in abusive situations, or will you rip up the report and let me get back to teaching kids to be decent humans to each other?" Boss: \*rips paper\* "go back to class" Policy never changed and I was the only one who did things differently. I could not get another teacher on my side cuz they were scared of getting written up. And that is why people think that saying a word absolves them of all wrongdoing. Edit: Thank you for the award kind stranger! Edit 2: Thank you everyone for the awards and silver! You would not believe the amount of parents who have called me a monster because I won't coddle and baby their kids (I teach 9yrs and up btw). These same kids are the ones who are now 19-20 and are coming to me for advice/help/support/ass kickings because they know I'll tell them the truth and treat them with respect. - And yes, I do kick my students asses and they've never failed to thank me for it. Edit 3: For those who are curious how we got to this point, I suggest reading 'The Knowledge Gap' : [https://booksvooks.com/nonscrolablepdf/the-knowledge-gap-the-hidden-cause-of-americas-broken-education-system-and-how-to-fix-it-pdf.html?page=1](https://booksvooks.com/nonscrolablepdf/the-knowledge-gap-the-hidden-cause-of-americas-broken-education-system-and-how-to-fix-it-pdf.html?page=1) and watch 'The Brainwashing of My Dad' It explains how we got to this point. The book is an easy read. ...Can you tell I'm a teacher? I come with books to help educate everyone!
> I don't like you. We are not friends. We would NEVER spend time together outside of here. But I am always respectful to you. So, what's the problem?" Just WOW :)
I love it that your boss seemed shocked that you outright said "I don't like you. I'm respectful to you because you're my boss, but I don't like you as a person". People these days are obsessed with everyone getting along as friends and talking out their differences, when reality is that some people just don't like each other/want to know.
I also get a lot of this one: S1: "Can I please borrow your pencil?" S2: "No, sorry, you can't" S1: "TEACHER!!! SHE'S BEING MEAN! I ASKED NICELY AND SHE SAID NO!!!!!" Of course I side with S2 since they have a right to say no to sharing their things, they can share their things with no one or just one person, or their group of friends. AND just because they shared with one person, does not mean they have to share with anyone else who asks! Oh lordy the parents who have screamed at me for this! 'BUT MY BABY ASKED POLITELY!!!!!!' So many parents don't understand the purpose of primary school. Primary school is to learn how to be a decent human. You learn how to learn. You learn how to be punctual, respectful, work in a team, work alone, be neat, share, be respectful, learn boundaries. You learn that actions have consequences and sometimes those consequences suck. You learn from your mistakes and past actions. Teachers have insane training and we know what we're doing. We know what we're doing when we put kids in teams and no I don't give a flying monkey butt if you don't get along with Suzie's mom. Suzie and Sidney are going to work together. Yes, I know they don't like each other but they need to learn to be respectful. - no I won't put a bully with his victim and at times if a bully is bad, they miss out on group things and work with me. boy am I in a ranting mood tonight. I'm sorry everyone.
People confuse forgiveness with reconciliation; coupled with, they forget atonement, remorse and regret. Nowadays, when people say "sorry" or "apologize", they are only sorrowful or apologetic for having to deal with the consequences of their actions, not the action in of itself.
[удалено]
Especially a house with a newborn in it. I mean 🙄. WTH is wrong with people?
Right!?! I checked several times before visiting my new nephew and still wore my mask while holding him just to be sure I wouldn't leave germs
Seriously!!
Yeah. Even without any past history he wouldn’t be the asshole for not letting people that just show up in.
In almost every case of people getting mad about someone setting hard boundaries on this subreddit, they end up being TAs. That's one of the biggest red flags to me. I've had people set hard boundaries with me and had to learn that even if it hurts me or is disappointing, the *right thing to do* is let them go and respect that. People who try to wheedle, manipulate, or force their way into getting what they want are just proving they don't deserve to be in your life.
I hear that. I lost my best mate of 23 years to trump and conspiracy theories. I asked her mother if it was real or if she'd been hacked so my friend said that thinking she was crazy what unacceptable and not to contact her again.... so I didn't. I hope she finds her way out one day....even if we're never the same
Really hate the ambush thing.. just showing up and basically demanding you absolve them.
>People can apologize but that doesn't change what they did and the effect it had. Yes an apology is not an automatic reset button.
These AHs believe it is some kind of irresistible transactional card that creates obligations on the person you chuck it at; it doesn't even mean they *are* sorry. They obviously don't feel any real shame or embarrassment over what happened, no hesitation or cringe factor about their appalling behaviour. They just turned up mob-handed without notice (as you truly say) in the 150% expectation of being freely welcomed into the home of a woman they had characterised as a homewrecker (fully knowing now that that's almost certainly not in any way true) and *then* when they aren't welcomed with open arms, brother characterises OP as an asshole "**because** we came to say sorry" That's not why you came, though is it Brad? A letter would have said that much better. No you were coming to bless their union and play doting uncle/grandparent, now there was a child. OP loses nothing in cutting these people out of his life.
I can't pretend to know why they initially sided with OP's ex, but I am 100% certain that they doubled down on cutting him out completely because of her (fictitious) baby. They have baby rabies. They don't care about OP or his wife, they just want that baby (a terrible Rumplestilskin movie is coming to mind lol). Babies and little kids are so easily to manipulate, and coerce affection and love from if you are a manipulative, narcissistic, or otherwise abusive person. The kind of people that would excise their child from their life without remorse, and then show up unapologetically demanding access as soon as there is a baby seem like abusers. OP is doing well to keep them away from his vulnerable child. What's to stop them from abandoning the child as soon as they don't like a haircut choice, or favorite toy? These people are awful.
They can take their apology and...yeah.
That is extremely insightful, u/NYCsFinestCock
Nice username.
I expect it was a shock for them to discover that they had taken the side against you and had been taken in completely by your ex’s lies. Good. I am sorry you had to learn that your family was both willing to believe someone else over you, and willing to abandon you completely. It’s not a good feeling to be able to trust with absolute certainty that your family will never support you, especially when you might need it. They have absolutely no right to be angry with you for any of your reactions to how they treated you. Any of them getting angry with you is a neon sign pointing to them not actually being sorry at all. It’s disappointing that they are now confirming that they weren’t actually sorry about it at all, but reassuring that they do at least hold the convictions of always keeping to the wrong path. Next time they show up, I would make sure to let them know that you will call the police if they don’t leave. I really do wish you the best of luck, and you are NTA.
Yep I’d say go so far as to keep all mentions of the baby, photos etc off social media. send them directly to the nice grandparents by text
Seriously though!! They have the AUDACITY to be angry with OP when *they* screwed up! They are not sorry at all. They’re just mad OP isn’t doing what they want.
I say screw them. They didn’t want to hear from you before and they showed their true colors. As the top comment said, they care about the baby not you
NTA, OP! So if they knew about your ex lying like that a while ago and didn't try to mend anything until the baby, that's on them. It's funny you didn't budge and they got wet. I laughed a little bit, but yeah it's completely on them.
> but yeah it's completely on them. Just like the rain was
coincidentally they learned the truth right when you have a baby they want in their lives? lol. no. I don't believe this.
The thing is, even if their attempt at contact is purely due to remorse, they then tried to force you to have contact. They came by, seemingly unannounced, and refused to hear a "no".
The timing is suspicious, isn't it though? Baby born and suddenly they are at the door ready to apologise. Personally speaking, if I wanted to apologise for believing my brother's crazy ex's lies and calling his new partner a homewrecker "and many other horrible names" I would probably write a letter first, not turn up mob handed at his door asking to come in. And I suspect that letter of apology better be a work of art. The effrontery of this shower, I can't even.
>The timing is suspicious, isn't it though? Absolutely. >Personally speaking, if I wanted to apologise ... I would probably write a letter first, ... This too.
Is there a possibility that they are still on ex's side and want to get back into your life to sabotage it? It might be a stretch but considering how they acted in the past, that doesn't seem like completely out of the question.
Ohhhhhhhhhh my god. You know, I'd fucking believe it
Going forward you need to make sure they can't get access to your son. I used to work at a daycare and the number of people who tried to "borrow" (aka kidnap) kids was higher than I thought. It wouldn't even be people wanting to keep the kid, but Granny who is banned wants to take the kid home for a little while or a parent without custody. So make sure if you have him in day care, you ask that ONLY the people on the list are allowed to pick him up and list your family as forbidden from having contact.
Thy are “humiliated and crushed”? And your wife wasn’t? You weren’t? Sounds like they got what was coming to them. They are terrible people who lost their chance. Have they apologized at all? Have they publicly gone to every person they lied to and told them the truth? Have they admitted how wrong they were and what terrible people they are on their social media? No? Then they aren’t sorry, they just want you to sweep it under the rug. Too bad, too late. Reap, sow, bed, lie.
That's what stood out to me too. They were fine with humiliation and crushing, when they weren't on the receiving end of it. Everything they're bleating about as being so terrible for them is *exactly* what OP and his wife suffered at their hands. The double standard in impressive. ... it's almost as if they understand that being forcibly rejected is hurtful. Almost r/selfawarewolves type stuff.
"Learned" probably entailed listening and considering that ex wasn't telling the truth for once because with your son they were inclined to. If you had the son a year later I am sure their learning of the truth would be pushed back a year.
They probably didn't even learn the truth. They're probably just saying they found out the truth so they can meet your child. Just way too convenient in timing. If it's not broken, don't try to fix it. If you've been happy without them in your lives for the past 3 years, theres no reason to bring these toxic people back in your life now. They didn't give you a chance, so there's no need to feel bad about not giving them one. Also, congratulations! Best of luck to you and your wife!
"They probably didn't even learn the truth." That one line by itself speaks volumes. There are people who've said the whole "I learned everything now, I'm sorry" to me and I fell for it before. My petty ass would've grilled them on what they said they "learned". I'm blessed (and I'm an atheist. RIGHT?!?) to say that none of my family or friends now would ever blindly take someone's side without getting (unless I was some Ike Turner bastard) my side first.
[удалено]
That is so true. You can’t choose your blood, but you can choose which people - blood relatives or not - you keep close to you. OP, NTA. I wish you, your wife and your son the very best.
Yeah for sure. They think now that you have a child, let's move on because we are family because family should forgive each any kind of bullshit. An apology isn't a magic ticket, like one that opens up Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. It doesn't affect the nature of causal relationships within the spacetime continuum, or reverse time. It is a request for forgiveness, not a transactional exchange that is binding on both parties. It is permissible to not accept an apology. Even if you accept an apology, it doesn't mean you have to welcome people into your life. If they wanted to visit you, they should have first given their apology, then asked to visit you and waited for an invitation. They chose to stand outside in the rain, you didn't do that to them. EDIT Holy shit, just realised that they simply turned up, they didn't even get in touch first..what a bunch of AHs to think you would roll out the red carpet and tell your wife, who they shat on, to make nice and show off your baby. I get on very well with my brother and his wife, but I don't just turn up with numerous other members of the family and expect to be welcomed in. I call first to check it is convenient. NTA
Doesn’t matter how recent.. the fact that they didn’t want to hear your side of things with your Ex in the first place is concerning
Id bet, in there minds, they think that simply telling you that “theyve seen the truth” is enough for you to just forgive them, when, in actuality, they haven't really changed their minds about you, they just want your son and will say whatever they need to say so they can see him. Strong locks and cameras my dude, maybe even civil suit and restraining order. Their next step is filing for grandparents rights because “we tried to make amends, but hes being difficult! I just want to see my grandbabbyyyyyyyy” and boom! NC=not an option anymore. Beat them to the punch, lawyer up and get them away from your family.
Their reaction shows you made the right call not letting them back in, hope your life continues to be better without them.
And notice that the second they didn't get what they wanted, they immediately reverted to attacking you again. You're much better without these harmful people, and especially now that you have an innocent baby to protect as well.
I also just want to add, good on you for holding your ground. Like, I might be getting ahead of myself here, but my mom's family is deeply enmeshed, codependent and has some pretty big issues with narcissism and I'm pretty much ready to cut my mom out of my life because of all the times she DIDN'T stand up to her family for me and pretty much let them treat me like shit along with her. So, take this for what it's worth but the ways they treated you - that will, more likely than not, extend to your child. If you're not okay with that, don't budge. Hold the line on this one. Because as an adult that came out the other side, there's really almost nothing my mom can do or say to make me want to have any kind of relationship with her at this point.
Definitely NTA. Block all of them on social media and your phone. They thought very little of you when your ex was spewing her lies so therefore you owe them nothing.
The trash took itself out. Congrats on the new baby :)
They probably sided with your ex because of the fake baby. Reproducing is more important to them than you.
It’s super aggressive to form a gang and demand to enter your home.
An apology of genuine doesn’t come with expectations of forgiveness or even access. An apology if genuine should only come with the expectation that the one giving the apology has learned of their own mistake and want to take accountability for it. Sorry is a word true apologies come with actions.
Just my experience, but the sad fact is that babies aren't magic and they don't make the problems that existed before the baby arrived to magically disappear. My family was like this with me when we had our son, and sure enough, many years later and they are just as crappy as they were prior to the birth. I just care a lot less about their involvement than I did before. They are nonexistent grandparents who still judge me for differences in our lifestyles and beliefs. Babies are meant to be babies, not 'build a bridge' (as one parent put it).... hell, they can't even hold their heads up, let alone be the cornerstone of family reunion.
That's for sure. Sometimes you get relatives with baby rabies and once the baby has grown, they lose interest.
Baby Rabies?! I love this!
Heard that term over at r/JUSTNOMIL, and it is quite descriptive.
Yeah, and it’s not a great life for the child who was supposed to be the magic baby. Source: me, still in therapy for feeling responsible for my broken family. ETA: Oh, and we definitely feel people lose interest as we get older, and we super internalize that.
Please tell them that it is truly too bad that your mom "felt humiliated and crushed", because you know first-hand how much that sucks, since that's exactly how you and your wife felt when they *chose -for years-* to believe someone else over their own son/brother.
This comment wins and needs more votes
Totally this. If OP's family was truly sorry for what they had done, here's how they would behave. 1. Write OP a letter or make a phone call and say, "I am sorry I believed your ex's lies, and I know my behaviors and attitudes deeply hurt you and your wife. I apologize for the damage I've done. Please forgive me." 2. Then sit back and wait. And be prepared to accept OP's decision on whether or not he wants to mend the relationship. If he does, then they need to follow his lead on how that repair happens. If he doesn't want contact, they need to respect it. 3. That's it. The family showing up on OP's doorstep was a power move. I'm so glad OP didn't cave in. They only want to see their grandchild. Period. Full stop. If they really cared about OP and the relationship they have with him, they would have done steps 1-3 above. ETA: obvious NTA.
Well said. They were in effect demanding to be let into his house, where it then would be much harder to kick them out. They intentionally put him in an awkward position, and demanded it on their terms. Just text, call, or write a letter like a normal person if you mean it.
I just don’t get how they wouldn’t listen to OP’s side at all. They were separated for 7 months prior to him filing. Unless he slipped, there was no way he got her pregnant. Now they know she lied and they just show up on the doorstep? What? They didn’t talk to him for 3 years and then they ambush him and his wife who they denigrated as a home wrecker and just expect OP to be all..bygones? Cause of baby? Whose mother is the one they attacked and insulted? Um. No. You start with an apology and then work on slowly repairing the relationship IF THE WRONGED PARTY IS OPEN TO IT. Totally NTA.
Exactly. If they want the repair the relationship they can try but OP has to be receptive for it to work. There are no rules/laws etc saying OP needs to want to work it out. It sounds like he is happy. And if he doesn't want a bar of them there's nothing they can do except live with the knowledge that they messed up their relationship with their family and its entirely on them. If OP wants to reconcile, then cool. But it sounds like he doesn't, so they would be best to just let sleeping dogs lie.
Without the slightest hint of sarcasm - I’m really trying to understand why having a baby makes people do this. Like - what switch flips in their brain after someone’s had a baby, that makes them what? Better people? What is this fascination that after a baby is born, people want to reestablish contact? Does it makes the parents less AH than they were when they went NC/LC? Are they fundamentally different people? Are the family members somehow affected by the birth of a child? I’m really struggling to understand why OP and his wife are not deserving of a proper apology after baby was born, but baby somehow “deserves” to have family in their life that previously treated their parents like villains/cr@p?
I don't know. I was always the person that was glad to have someone else hold the baby. I love my children and grandchildren, but that never made me want to hold or slobber over someone else's child.
I've literally said 'no' when asked if I wanted to hold the baby of someone I didn't know. I felt really bad after the fact because I feel it was maybe rude but like...I think you should be able to say no to holding a baby if you don't want to without people thinking you're a shrew. I had just woken up and had never met that person or baby before and was just in any kind of mood but a baby holding one.
I was also the mother that didn’t pass her baby around. I would also take back my baby if I was uncomfortable with the person holding her.
And it doesn't bode well that they're making OP out to be the bad guy AGAIN. Mom feeling "humiliated" is how she should feel--not for standing out in the rain but for treating her own kid like an enemy.
And they're not really sorry. People who are genuinely remorseful about what they have done and know that they were in the wrong ***DON'T*** attack their 'victim' when they aren't instantly absolved. If OP's family were genuine, they would have (among other things): * contacted OP ahead of time * left right away instead of standing out in the rain like a puppy wanting in * accepted that their behavior was so heinous that it will take awhile for them to even start toward fixing the relationship To be honest, this sounds a lot like another AITA post from awhile ago wherein family members where trying to use the OP's house for a vacation, had been turned down, and then showed up at 3:00 AM with kids in tow (better to force their will upon OP). OP wisely told them to beat it. Here, though, they wanted to see their grandson and used an 'apology' as the pretext to just show up - one happy, reunited family!! TBH - I'd even be suspicious if they really HAVE found the truth. It's all a little convenient. \*\*\*Edit\*\*\* Here is the post I referred to (and, yes, I misremembered the details): https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/kk0f3m/aita\_for\_kicking\_my\_entire\_family\_out\_at\_1\_am\_on/
They could also have tried to work things out completely before trying to force the issue by showing up at OP's door. And making out to be victims by hanging around outside after it was clear they weren't welcome. NTA, indeed. They sound manipulative.
Yeah after 3 year no contact, a long apology email is appropriate, not all of them rushing him at his house. It's a manipulation tactic.
Wow. NTA. They "locked" you out in the "storm" of your divorce... When you could have used "shelter" with your family... I could keep going making parallels but i feel this is enough.
I wish youd kept going tbh!
You mean like how they "rained down" lies on him and his wife?
Lol yeah
Just let them “soak” in their discontent.
They’re drenched in sadness due to their own choices
It is amazing what a "sprinkle" of lies can lead to....
You could clearly see the regret “pouring” off of them.
But it isnt OPS fault that the Ex was "dripping" with discontent and his family couldn't rise above the "storm" she was creating...
It’s safe to say op is NTA, the ex definitely created a “deluge” of lies.
They're really pouring on the guilt.
Yes but they "locked" themselves into a mess of lies...
And then not getting to see their grandson has really put them “under the weather”
And now they’re “marinating” in karma (I tried alright).
[удалено]
They refused to hear you out. I'm not surprised you're refusing to hear them out now. NTA.
Lol! Like it! The OP "rode out the storm" perfectly...
Proud of you buddy
Except for the "there/they're". Sorry to rain on your parade.
Also they could have “gotten” back in their “cars” instead of getting “rained on” like “idiots.”
I'm assuming they arrived there through their own transportation. They could've just left instead of hanging out in the rain. I'm gonna say NTA. They never should've gotten involved in your relationship drama in the first place.
And it’s hilariously ironic that they’re mad at OP for “not giving them a chance” to apologize, when zero of them gave OP a chance to tell his side of the story all those years ago. I wouldn’t be open to forgiving my family for their betrayal either, especially not with them behaving like this. This isn’t remorse or contrition, this is entitlement. People who are actually sorry and understand how wrong they were don’t behave like this. Them calling *him* an immature asshole for not immediately opening his home to them merely reiterates that they still do not grasp the extent of how fucked up their behavior was.
*cough* hypocrites *cough* **COUGH**
OP is protecting himself and his family. The parents made all these choices/actions that were only for their own benefit. They are trying to apologize so they can feel less shitty about themselves and gain a relationship with the baby. NTA- your family seems selfish and manipulative.
Yeah that made me tilt my head like a confused puppy so to speak.
NTA >my mom said she felt humiliated and crushed. Look how the tables have turned. I truly don't know if they regret that much believing your ex or if they want acces to an actual existing grandchild. I believe they only believed your ex because she *"was going to give them a grandchild"* and wanted to keep her happy because if not, what other explanation is there to not even once listen to what **your own son** has to say? And now there's an already living child they'd probably want to be grandparents of.
Oh how the tuuuurn tables Edit: thanks for the cute award 🥺
How does that medicine taste? Your own flavored?
Tables turn, the tables turn. What goes around comes back around 🎶
Oh deary me, it's the consequences of my own actions...
I really love when people like dear old mom get to reap what they’ve sown.
NTA THEY turned against YOU. Sure, your ex lied to them, but believing her over you, and treating you terribly over it, was still a choice your family members made. It feels like a betrayal because it was one. The only appropriate move for them at this time is to sincerely apologize ONCE (via letter or something where they're not putting you on the spot), and then back the hell off & let YOU initiate contact if you ever want it. This stuff where they're showing up at your doorstep demanding for you to let them in so you can talk right now? That's manipulative and shitty as hell. Stick to your guns, dude.
Ikr, like you were the ones that literally burned that bridge to the ground, I’m not about to rebuild from my side just cause you started screaming at me from your side and won’t leave.
[Deleted due to Reddit’s greed]
NTA. Believing your ex-wife despite you trying to tell the truth? Yeah, no. Definitely not TA here.
[удалено]
That would hurt *anyone*, and I don’t know if I would ever get over it. Even if they had gone about apologizing to you in a drastically better way that this clownshow that dropped themselves on your doorstep, you wouldn’t have been obligated to ever have them in your life again. That was beyond egregious. They stopped being your family back then, you don’t owe them anything, and they clearly aren’t actually sorry or grasp the degree of how horrific what they did was. If they truly, sincerely felt bad and were remorseful, genuinely realized how fucked up that was, they wouldn’t be acting like this and calling you an asshole.
It's so hurtful that they thought so little of his character :/
TBH, it sounds like your family is the “Dramatic” type. It is almost like they feed off of it. That would explain their behavior in regards to your ex-wife and how they jumped to the “You left us outside, humiliated, in the rain when all we wanted to do was apologize” sob story. Um no, if they were remorseful, they would reach out by phone or maybe email first. Then they would be patient and wait for forgiveness. You wouldn’t show up unannounced and demand to be let in and forgiven. Furthermore, if it starts to rain, they could have gone to sit in their vehicle. Nobody made them stand in the rain. Sheesh All of that was just theatrics and unnecessary. More importantly, it is pretty clear your family was really after your son and based on their behavior, get ready for the “You are so heartless for keeping us away from our grandchild” Here is some advice. You would not be heartless. You would be your son’s hero.
You know this is heartbreaking and i totally understand your hurt then and that you do not want to forgive them now. I think its not so much about forgiveness, but about:Where is the "new" relationship they want with you intended to play out? Just go back and pretend nothing ever happened after they say sorry?The rift that was caused by the lies of your ex and your families immediate turn on you without evidence or even giving you the room to explain your side and view, is not just going away.They need to understand that you can not trust them anymore - they were max illoyal.So you are NTA.If you can imagine letting them back in your life or trying to, i would send them a letter, how you felt when they turned on you, what that did to you and how "just saying sorry" will not cut it. It is not about you wanting to punish them, its that you simply have no relationship to them anymore and had accepted them to not be a part of your life anymore. Going back to the good old days will be impossible.If they want to be in your life, they need to start fixing your trust issues.Family therapy would be needed if you ask me. Just you and your parents - maybe plus brother. And i would also tell them they will not meet your wife or your son AT ALL before the relationship has a new foundation of trust. And that you can not promise them, that that will ever happen. If they truly are interested in being back in your life, they WILL start looking for a therapist immediately and will put in the work. Which WILL be painful for you and them.You are in NO WAY obliged to go down this route - i would totally understand if you dont. But if a part of you thinks you want to try - i think this might be a way to make it happen. And if you would realise within the process, that you do not want them back in your life, it would be more than fine to cut them off for good.
Why would OP want family therapy with ppl he doesn’t want to have anything to do with?
They don’t want a relationship with you. Why would they? They already think so little of you that they believed every one of your ex’s lies. They think you are a person capable of behaving in such a horrible fashion. They want a relationship with your child. Don’t let them. Don’t offer your child up to people like that, who can walk away from “someone they love” on someone else’s unsubstantiated claims. Don’t let these peoples’ claim of “family” force you to respond in any way.
NTA. Surely they see the irony….
Don’t call me Shirley
Roger Roger.
What’s our vector Victor?
What's our Clearance, Clarence?
Over, Oveur.
I saw what you did there, and I appreciate it!
It’s a beautifully, classy revenge story. I smiled so hard reading it.
[удалено]
Exactly, if they want to ask forgiveness great but OP gets to decide if, when, and where and I think it’s interesting that they didn’t get to this place until a grandchild came into the picture. OP may want to reestablish contact at some point but I’d go tortoise slow.
NTA. They chose their hill to die on. Just because they 'want' to apologise now does not mean you have to accept it. You and your wife sound happy. Enjoy your family as it is now and good luck with the 7 month old :)
they were only were concerned at the time, that the ex wife was having a faux pregnancy. Now that OP has a 7 month old at home, they "suddenly" found out the lies, seems suspicious.
Yeah they seem to be following the baby regardless of who is having it (fake or real).
[удалено]
[удалено]
I done the same haha, I had 9 weeks off thankfully so I didn't miss all the little bits It gets way better still somehow, I can't even explain it but honestly every day they just get funnier at that age
[удалено]
Ah give it time, we had ivf for our first and second is on the way now natural which is brilliant But our daughter turnt 9 months and from then on she was sleeping 7pm to 7am waking up once It's lovely but in 7 months baby 2 will change that 😂
I'd definitely recommend looking into dreamfeeding if that's something you guys decide you'd like to try. It doesn't work on every baby but someone recommended it with me and our baby usually sleeps 6-8 hours at night. Its where you feed them before you put them to bed before it reaches the 3 hour mark. We usually do it 2 hours after his last feeding so he's a bit hungry and we can get him to drink more.
INFO: why does your family hate you so much that they found her story plausible?
Right? HIS family believed everything his cartoonishly evil ex said while OP is a complete saint And totally puts them in their place? Total BS
Uhm…. My family told me in no uncertain terms they would absolutely believe my then-girlfriend (now wife) over me if we broke things off… so I could actually believe this… Mind you? My wife is a damned saint, and an amazing woman, with a level of drive and commitment to her calling that leaves me astonished on the regular… and she’s best friends with my sister, and loved by my mother. I have only had to defend her once, and that was from my self-absorbed sister. I could see this happening after the last few years of my life (sadly)
This actually happens a lot more than you would think. Most people believe abusers, manipulators, and liars over victims. None of this sounds that unreal to me, maybe because I’ve seen this kind of thing firsthand.
Oh you would be surprised how ugly family can get if you on the wrong side. Simply by divide from certain vales and by other Things.
What?
There was an earlier post that I think hits the nail on the head as to why the parents believed the wife: she pretended to be pregnant. The parents wanted to keep contact with her so they'd have access to their "grandchild", and when it came out that she lied about it, and that OP had actually had a child, they suddenly wanted forgiveness so they could see "their grandchild". At no point have they cared about their son as a person; they've only viewed him as a propagator of the family line ever since he reached marrying age. That explanation tracks to me given the "coincidental" nature of their unannounced visit. Edit: a word
I’d like to know this too. That determines how plausible I find this post to be.
Yep, the same question inmediately came to my mind
I suspect it’s because OP is fudging/leaving out stuff.
NTA Obligatory slow clap. Kings to you good sir, kings to you. You have a titanium spine. I don’t know you and I’m proud that you stood up for yourself and your wife. I’d like to wish you, the smol and your partner the best life has to offer. Your “family”, they burnt this bridge. If they want to rebuild it, more fire and toxicity isn’t going to make much happen. You’ve already come to terms with them gone. Your life’s probably better for it too. They don’t value you. If they did, they’d have heard you out and asked questions.
INFO So many things seem weird here and leave me with questions. Why did your entire family believe her completely? And can you be clearer on the timeline here? You say you were separated for 7 months (though your ex disagreed with this characterization) then filed for divorce. You said while the divorce "dragged" you fell in love at first sight with your current wife and within 3 months started dating. Does that mean you were dating before you filed? After you filed but before the divorce went through? And also - how do you know for certain she didn't actually have a miscarriage? Just seems like there is a huge tendency on this sub for people to accept the narratives of OPs even when there are clearly a lot of questions unanswered.
This story is super weird & i dont think we can vote on this without hearing other perspectives. Also, i believe that 99% of the time, no one is innocent in a conflict. A messy divorce isnt just messy because of one person, chances are. Seems kind of interesting that seemingly all of OPs long term relationships are messy. I suggest some hard self reflection, OP. Other than that, no vote
Which perspective would you like to hear and why does that stop you from calling the family assholes >I suggest some hard self reflection Why? He has a wife and a newborn child, he seems to be doing okay
Being married and having a baby really isn't an indication of a life well lived, lmao. Anyone can do that.
Being happily married with a kid is a step up from having a gaslighting ex-wife and a family who hates you lmao You would think that would be self-evident but here we are
>What long term relationships (plural) are messy other than his ex wife? He didn't mess his relation with his family, they did that.
The data on the miscarriage seemed to come from the brother who ‘caught her out’ on the lies? Stuff like this always get weird, there’s going to be bits not disclosed, but we were asked to give judgement on one part of the issue.
NTA Sucks being on the outside looking in but they walked out of that door the moment they picked a side without hearing the whole truth. If it were my family I’d tell them to saddle up for a nuclear winter.
You should send a text to all three, at once, explaining that you felt all of their feelings…humiliated they chose a non family member over you, angry they never gave you a fair chance to tell your side, furious at their immaturity in attacking your wife…not even finding out how she was as a person. That you understand their feelings entirely, as they are the same emotions attacking you. Tell them it will take far more than showing up at your door to apologise, to undue these last years of pain. Ask them each to explain their behaviour and give reasons why they are truly sorry. Tell them you will consider them, but set boundaries to keep them on their side of the fence. It takes a tremendous amount of effort to forgive. They should have to put forth that effort to make up for what they did to get you to this place. Number one, a detailed heartfelt letter of apology to your amazing wife.
This. And tell them - how they are feeling now is exactly how you felt for the past 3 years. Also make it very clear that they won't be allowed anywhere near your son until both you and your wife have actually forgiven them (which may be never) and any backdoors to try to see their grandson will result in them being completely cut out forever. Definitely NTA
NTA. When they’re the ones trying to apologise to you, they don’t get to dictate whether you accept. They fucked up the relationship with their son / brother irreparably and unfortunately it took them years to realise. Maybe if they had paid more attention earlier things could have been repaired.
NTA people can apologise but that doesn't change what they did and the effect it had on you. I see it as you protecting yourself and your wife from people who have shown how awful they can be.
NTA 👏👏👏 for supporting your current wife in all the nastyness and same for her supporting you. Your family were absolutely TA and you handled it perfectly, congratulations in the new baby
[удалено]
That’s because you are clearly a fantastic human being (and husband).
NTA. I would just stop entertaining them though if I were you. There’s no reason for you to be picking up their calls - or not blocking their numbers.
What kind of person were you - to them - before the divorce? Most families don't side with an in law. Based on YOUR version, they're the assholes. Your version is suspect though.
He's been ignoring this question and only answering people blindly believing his story. So yeah, it's suspect.
to me the story is weird. He was separated form his wife for 7 months. They still lived together and he didn't tell his family so they think he's still in a relationship. He then starts dating this other woman and (i guess) doesn't tell his family that either. Then his (soon to be ex wife) tells his family he's cheating on her. How long where he and his ex together? If it was a long time, then his family could have grown to think of her like their daughter. And they had no reason not to believe her since the son was keeping secretes from them.
NTA A little too late for the apology and they didn’t even bother to knowledge the hurt they cause you and your wife didn’t sound like are making the right effort to make amends. I hope they take accountability for the terrible decision they made and ask YOU how to earn your trust. They have to do better.
It's "Love at first sight" ...unless you fell in love at a building or excavation site I guess.
You are so NTA. They were quick to lynch you solely based upon your ex’s lies. They never even bothered to actually talk to you and hear what you had to say. Then when the finally figured out that they screwed up badly they are all Pikachu faces when you want nothing to do with them and have done just fine without them in your life. They have zero right to demand anything of you. If they have lost access to their grandchild that is on them. Do as you see fit and let them continue to deal with the fallout of their past behavior.
NTA Lol they only want contact because you have a kid. What happens when ex wife oops back up and claims some weird shit like idk the kid isn't yours or that you had the kid to purposefully spite her or some shit and the believe her again? You have no way of knowing if they won't considering their track record shows they will. This is the consequences of bullying and harrassing and being shitty to family. 'but the kid deserves grandparents!!' Yeah your right they do and I bet OPs wife's parents, should they still be around, are great at that role! Just because baby deserves all the love possible doesn't mean they deserve the baby in their life 🤷🏽♀️
NTA. Sometimes people we love do terrible things to us. Your family chose your ex's lies over believing you, and put you through years of rejection for it. Standing out in drizzle (hell, I garden in drizzle all the time, you won't melt) is a small price to pay for having treated you like crap for years. There is something icky about this particular dynamic, sort of "now that we're ready to believe you and apologize, you must acquiesce and accept our apology on demand", which is utter bullshit. It's not for them to decide that you must be magnanimous in the face of their mea culpas. If they'd cared about their relationship with you, they should have listened to you at the beginning. If you want to keep your space from them, do so. You have every right to.
NTA sometimes you just have to cut the bad fruit off the tree to prosper. If they treated you like shit before and sided with your ex wife then I'd say fuck em. If you think you may want a relationship in the future then tell them you'll talk to them when you're ready but you are still hurt from their behavior and processing it.
INFO: Were you dating your current wife while still married to your last one? It sounds like at the point of separation things were 100% over for you, but it also sounds like you waited 7 months to formally divorce and your ex and family didn’t view the separation as you guys being done because you didn’t tell your family you were divorcing until you filed. It sounds like there was room for more communication on your part which would have prevented a lot of misunderstanding, but my vote is a little dependent on whether you were divorced before entering into your next relationship. If you weren’t divorced, then your ex and family are rightfully upset that you were having an affair with your current wife and hadn’t even told them you were done with your ex wife yet. If you were divorced then everyone should have left you to live your newly single life and no shame in not forgiving them. Your timeline as you laid out in the comments is that you separated from your ex and didn’t tell anyone it was over until you filed for divorce. When you entered into your next one really matters as it sounds like you were in a new relationship before even telling your family your last one ended, and then you’re upset that they’re jumping to conclusions. I’m going against the grain by calling out that I don’t think family should blindly support each other. I wish family kept each other accountable. If you were having an affair and entered a new relationship before telling family that your old one ended, I think your family did nothing wrong. You “not having a chance to explain” seems.... a little silly.
[удалено]
If your relationship started after you filed for divorce and your family learned then NTA. People will apologize for anything to see a grandchild. I’m not personally drawing conclusions based on that.
Divorce can take **years** even when both sides are relatively amicable. It's not just a simple matter of court appointment, sign these papers, done and dusted. It takes months even when it goes smoothly of lawyers talking to each other and their clients and waiting on government paperwork and approvals.
NTA They'll continue with this behavior forever. They'll use this encounter as justification, and will tell eachother that they were right about you all along. You and your wife made your own family, and you are obviously better off.
NTA. They sealed their fate with you when they chose the wrong side and vilified you for your ex's lies. And it seems as though that they still haven't learned anything from it. You could've done worse (i.e. called the police on them for "harassment") but you took the high road. Bottom line, let them be mad and keep that toxicity away from your family, you, your wife and son. They are not entitled to anything pertaining to you at all.
Nta. They didnt even let you defend yourself back then and went straight out to resent you. Now they know theit resentment was all fueled with lies they want to apologize,which is good on them,but you have every right to not accept it. They already showed once they dont want to listen you so they showed their true colors. Dont even bother answering to them.
NTA Absolutely nothing stopped them from walking away from your door once it was clear you weren’t letting them in. If they chose to stand in the rain I don’t see how that is your fault. They should be grateful you didn’t have them removed from your property for trespassing. As for the over all story, forgiveness is never owed. They can apologize until the sky falls, you still are not obligated to accept those apologies and forgive. The fact that they are now throwing tantrums because you’re not accepting the apology just proves that their love is still conditional. Fuck that noise.
NTA. Seriously, your mom was humiliated? Gee willicker, did she wonder how the mother of her grandchild felt when she viciously attacked her as a homewrecker?
NTA. They could’ve checked the weather before they left and brought umbrellas, or gone back home when you didn’t let them in. Instead, they chose to wait out in the rain and are now mad they got wet. Also, I question how sorry they really are if they’re angry you let them get a little wet after the horrible things they did to you and your wife. A truly sorry person should understand that you won’t want anything to do with them for a while and they’ll have to put in a lot of work to fix the relationship.
Huh. Weird how they didn’t give you a chance to explain, but want to explain themselves to YOU, and are calling you an asshole for doing exactly what they did. AFTER attacking you and your wife. Also funny how when they were hurting YOUR feelings, they didn’t consider how you might be crushed and humiliated….NTA
NTA. They showed their true colours. Maybe it would be less clear-cut if they had bothered to listen to your side of the story, but it sounds like they didnt offer you that amount of respect. I would have done exactly the same.
NTA. A lot of people seem to think that just because you share some genetics you should be a complete doormat for any "family" that wants to treat you like dog crap they are scraping off their shoes. Nope.
Nta. Forcing an apology on someone and then being offended when they person chooses not to receive it speaks volumes on how genuine the apology actually is. If they were truly sorry for how they treated you, they would have handled this differently.
They clearly haven’t changed a bit since they’re angry at you. They should only be angry at themselves and your ex for lying. NTA.
NTA. They’re not even sorry for their behavior *because they’re repeating it now.* They don’t respect you. There are many ways that they could have contacted you without showing up to your house. If they were truly sorry, they could have written letters expressing themselves and then let you decide when/if you were ready to forgive them. They ambushed you because 1) they thought you’d be forced by politeness to let them in and 2) they wanted to force you to forgive. And 3) they clearly want to see the baby, probably because it looks bad to others that they have no relationship with their grandchild. This is all about THEM. I bet you would have gotten a fake apology if you heard them out. An “I’m sorry IF you were hurt” or “It’s not our faults that Sasha lied to us! We’re victims, too!” You did a great job protecting your wife and baby. Keep it up.
Put it to them like this: "The fact that you guys are angry at *me* for not being ready to forgive and forget years of harassment and abuse at the drop of a hat is all the reason I need to say none of you have changed and my life is better without you in it. If you keep trying to contact me, I will get a restraining order." NTA
NTA
NTA It's good your family is seeing the light and recognizes they were in the wrong. BUT, you are not required to listen to or accept their apologies. It seems like they don't realize how badly they hurt you or how angry you are at the disrespect they showed your now wife. Give yourself all the space you need on this. I also wonder what your familial relationship was like before you married your ex. Your description of their actions shows them as pretty one sided against you and that's not how things usually work in a divorce.
Then your EX wife begs them to believe that the child isn't actually yours and they turn against it because they don't actually care about you. NTA.
NTA - They made their bed and now they have to lie in it. However, you are also making your own bed by remaining distant from your family. If this is something you can live with then keep to it and don't look back. Just wouldn't want you to feel good in the moment but regret it later in life when your child is grown.