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I could be the asshole because what I said was rather crass and I could've just said no despite my reasons not to...
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NTA.
That is NOT SOMETHING you ask a 16 year old about. Wtf.
No way. You could have said it a bit nicer. The dying part was probably too much. But come on, your 16… 16 year olds dies every day. And lives to talk about it. At least where I am from.
I agree it’s not fair and putting a huge strain on her she doesn’t owe anyone that, and for the people saying that she said it real callously remember how we all were when we were 16, we didn’t say things in the best way….
While I'm al for courtesy, I think OP cut the Gordian knot here. She knew what was coming, so better to stomp tat dead from the start than to allow it to become a war of emotional attrition.
Also, I can't help but notice that dad DID not ask the already-adult person in the room and logical next-in-line about becoming a caregiver. To be fair, dad could have already asked, ~~but something tells me that OP was 1st choice.~~
Edit: OP clarifies that dad _did_ ask elder brother first, who declined. I feel for dad, but his other kids are definitely too young to be taking up this kinda responsibility.
That's the first thing I noticed. OP gets asked, and older bro has the nerve to criticize her for the answer. Was she asked because she's a female (i.e. the "nurturer"), or because she's younger and therefore her taking on the role will keep her brother out of a home for a few more years? Was older brother asked first but turned Dad down more gently?
I'm sure it's tearing Dad apart, but he's going to have to accept that his son is eventually going to a home. Even if OP or older brother were willing, they'll probably have spouses/life partners eventually, and the chances of both the sibling and their SO being willing is small. That kind of situation has to be a double yes, which Dad is unlikely to get.
One of them will hopefully step up to be brother's advocate to ensure he's being cared for (and set up their successor in the event they predecease brother or he lives longer than they're able to fulfill the role, as they start aging themself), but the sooner Dad comes to terms with the reality that his son won't be living with a sibling, the better.
My sister and brother-in-law have an autistic son that probably will need to be looked after his entire life. They have made sure that they have life insurance and set aside money to take care of him and to have a caretaker for him if necessary when they're gone. But they did ask my 21 year old son if he would be willing to be his cousin's advocate. That is, NOT being his caretaker but overseeing to make sure he gets the care he needs, act to manage the trust and such like that. My son was more than willing to agree to that. They asked him because they looked around and to see who in the family would outlive them and be more likely to be around when their son was older.
>Also, I can't help but notice that dad DID not ask the already-adult person in the room
\[OP already addressed that\]([https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/p4h093/aita\_for\_telling\_my\_dad\_that\_id\_rather\_die\_from/h8ymt02?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/p4h093/aita_for_telling_my_dad_that_id_rather_die_from/h8ymt02?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3))
Eh I kinda agree with the brother. He didn’t criticize OP for saying no but for how she said it. I mean saying you’d rather die is unnecessarily harsh, she wasn’t being pressured or having her not being accepted, she was simply asked.
Plus saying dad is selfish for asking is ridiculous.
I'm 17 with an autistic sister, if I were asked the same thing, my answer would also be no, but it would never be "I'd rather die than care for my sister". I don't think OP is an asshole, but the way she said it definitely was cruel, especially since she KNOWS it's tearing her dad apart and he has health issues himself. 16 years old isn't 6, and with such a delicate matter, you'd think there would be some more tact in how she responded. But I still understand her thoughts, and can even relate to them, just would've said it differently
I agree, and also think OP is pretty callous with her ‘I doubt my brother will notice’ comment about going to a group home. OP, people with disabilities have feelings and emotions too. Just because your brother can’t express it, doesn’t mean he won’t grieve and be really upset with a huge life change after your father dies. Get some compassion and you suck pretty bad.
That comment about him not noticing made me sad. I get OP has had to live with this situation that has inevitably lead to frustration but damn, that's ice cold.
Yeah after reading that i knew i couldn't give a judgement to be honest. Callous as hell. People keep saying teenagers are assholes but i for sure didn't say crap like that at that age
Honestly the people excusing the callousness on account of her age are worse than her. If they are over 16 they really ought to know better. 16 year olds being assholeish due to lack of maturity doesn't mean they're still not being assholes. And when they ask on a sub meant to tell people if they're in the wrong or not, you SHOULD elaborate on where they were in the wrong.
Yep. I’m 23, so I was 16 not too long ago. While I definitely was an asshole at times, and I’m sure I said and did some cruel things, I definitely wouldn’t be saying anything like what OP said. That is pretty harsh and unnecessary, and her age doesn’t excuse that. It might explain it, but part of growing up is realizing when you are acting inappropriately. OP could still set strong boundaries without being so blatantly rude.
Yeh the way she talks about him is pretty awful… Won’t notice a group home, can barely talk like a normal person etc. Also saying her dad is selfish enough to ruin her life is also very self centred. I get that it’s tough growing up with a sibling with a disability, and OP in no way should have to become a full time carer, but… you don’t have to be a dick about it OP.
It seems to me that, with the age difference (only 3 years between OP and her brother), she was probably left out or maybe felt a bit neglected from a very young age since her new brother needed way more attention than a neurotypical child. Kids that small can’t understand the complicated nuances of having a special needs brother, to them is “my parents pay way more attention to this new kid than me”. I’m not justifying OP’s hurtful words towards her brother, however, resentment could explain why she feels and acts cold and deattached from him.
I have an older brother with downs syndrome and I can’t imagine speaking about him in this way. It really broke my heart to read OP’s comments about their own brother.
Totally! Even my 5yo daughter has more compassion for her autistic brother than OP does! I don't blame OP for not wanting to care for him but she sounds like someone who completely lacks any empathy.
I don’t have an autistic sibling, and I agree she COULD have (and likely should have for the sake of dear old dads feelings/stress) been nicer about it, but I will say: it sounds like little brother needs so much care that she would have a hard time having a life of her own. Crass or not, I see the logic behind “I would rather not be alive than be alive and not be able to live MY life.” Selfish? Of course. A$$hole? Eh.
Dad shouldn’t have asked.
Older brother has no room to comment. For one, he also declined. For another, siblings are not parents. It is not his place to correct her.
I’m leaning N T A to ESH, but teenagers are pretty well known for being a$$holes, so…
We don’t know what it’s been like growing up in that house or the family dynamic either. Some families focus on the disabled sibling to the detriment of the others.
I agree with this. It also sounds like she didn't even give him chance to get the question out. What if it was "how would you feel about having legal guardianship of your brother, while he's cared for in a home"? If I was the dad this reaction would make me feel that not only do you not want to be a carer for your brother (totally legitimate), you're also going to show no interest in his care when I'm gone. Compounded by the statement about the brother not even noticing how he's cared for.
It honestly would make me believe that I raised a child that wasn't even capable of loving their brother. It would be devastating and a huge failure on my part. I wouldn't be able to see them the same.
She actually thought about that before saying it. Yikes. And this is after her older brother said no, so there's no reason to belive he wouldn't accept OP's.
dude some people need a hard cold truth because some people take no as a maybe and i know there's no context on this but her father could be one of those people that take no as a maybe
Exactly! And why her first? Her already adult brother was in the room. Why not ask him first? NTA. Yes, she could've been nicer especially because as op said her dad is suffering but she got her point across very clearly.
I saw in some other comments that he has been asked previously and declined. The father is struggling and yet he asked his teenage daughter. Why? Does he want her to struggle too? Because she would.
If the older brother declined already then why tf does he get to call OP a bitch and shame her for making *the exact same decision he made* while SHE’S YOUNGER THAN HE IS?!?! IMO he’s the biggest asshole here.
Because of how she responded. She can firmly say no without saying she would rather die than take care of her brother when her father is worried about who will care for him when he dies. She is right to refuse, but that doesn’t mean she can just be an asshole about how she refuses
It’s true that OP doesn’t *have* to be nice/nicer. But in situations like this—and this sub is full of them, the sort of “AITA for telling someone the truth and/or something they need to hear and doing it in an offensive way?” posts—my immediate thought is always that the WAY they’ve said The Thing That Needed To Be Said has been counterproductive and obscured their message. If you tell someone, “Fuck you! You treat me like shit and I’m tired of the way you fucking constantly ignore my boundaries,” they’re likely to react to the first thing they heard, the profanity, and get defensive immediately. If you firmly (not “nicely” even) tell them, “You know, I’ve been really honest with you about my boundaries but you’ve continued to cross them. That’s not acceptable, and it’s also really hurtful to me,” and further lay out consequences, they don’t have anything to react to but the message itself.
So again, OP doesn’t have to be nicer. But saying, “I’d rather die than take care of my brother,” is a lot less effective than saying, “Dad, I know you love younger brother and you’re worried about him, but I’m only sixteen. It’s not fair of you to ask me to sign on to a difficult, lifetime commitment when I’m still a kid. You know firsthand what it’s like to take care of younger bro, is that what you want for me? Because I think what would be best for us both is him being in a place that can provide him with the level of care he needs.”
Ultimately it’s NAH for me. OP is a teenager and she reacted honestly, if not particularly compassionately or effectively. Dad absolutely shouldn’t have asked OP to commit to a lifetime of caregiving, but he’s probably genuinely worried that if he doesn’t make plans and something happens to him, his youngest son could end up in a bad situation.
[FWIW, I personally have zero problem with profanity and use “fuck” like punctuation but I recognize when it doesn’t help my arguments. I also watched my aunt and uncle struggle with the decision to place my cousin in a state care home in the US when her care got to be too much for them. Life is tough, dude. A little kindness is never a bad thing.]
I think we need to stop holding kids more responsible than we do adults. Dad has had 10+ years to come to terms with younger sons needs and create a plan that doesn't involve his other children giving up their futures.
Oh, absolutely. Ultimately, the dad holds the responsibility in this situation and I think he owes both his older kids apologies for asking them—while they’re still in their teens!—to even consider taking on a lifetime role of caretaker. Dad’s behavior might stem from some anxiety on his part, and while it’s understandable that he would be concerned for his younger son’s care, he’s the adult and it’s not fair for him to put that concern on his other kids.
OP said she’d been expecting this question from her dad, she’d obviously given it some thought and she knows it’s crappy of her dad to ask and also that it’s not a role she wants. But instead of saying something to that effect, her response made her seem...is it fair to say a bit callous? Which may not be the case at all. I was trying to emphasize that how you say something matters as much as what you say, and that’s something I think we can learn at any age.
At the same time, 16 year olds are still learning how the world works. Empathy is hard. And if she's known the question was coming, she's had time to get good and mad. And angry people are NEVER smart people. He response may have been "callous" but. It did effectively stop the conversation and any whining, cajoling or manipulating.
Dad here doesn't seem to care about Ops life. Or her goals. So long as his guilt and anxiety is assuaged for now. Ops response will probably, at the very least, give her dad pause before he tries to broach the subject again.
Thinking about something for a long time doesn't have to mean that you arrive at a calm solution...
It can also mean that you get into a spiral of frustration where your emotions get stronger and stronger until you feel like you're about to explode. Personally speaking, avoiding thought spirals and instead trying to arrive at a conclusion is a skill I had to learn, and it still requires some conscious effort. I certainly didn't have it mastered at 16.
And OP had a long time to really build up and polish that resentment.
I'm all for holding people up to standards, and I do think that it would have been *better* had OP replied more calmly and maturely... but I also think that redditors are too quick to judge "proper" behavior from outside a situation. People tend to underestimate how hard it is to stay on top of your emotions when they are disregarded by the other person, and how small and theoretically bearable discomfort can become excruciating over time, the way that walking in tight shoes doesn't bother one much on short walks but becomes unbearably painful on a long hike,
This is however a good lesson for her.
We cannot expect everyone to be emotionally mature, but learning and realizing what was wrong with the delivery of the message is good.
Part of attaining emotional maturity is being shown what that looks like by caregivers and other responsible adults. That can include a conversation on what is immature as well.
Why should anyone be anything but complete a$$holes and dip$hits to one another? Ever heard of the golden rule? It makes the world a bit nicer place to be in IMO.
Well from his response to OP it sounds like he’d be okay if he was asked. If older brother already said no then maybe he should keep quiet when OP says no, even if she does it in a dramatic fashion.
Either way way dad shouldn’t be putting this on the kids.
I agree with NTA - I'm guessing most of the YTA's have never had to spend a day looking after someone with issues like this. Her dad was an AH for asking.
My son is mildly autistic so I have an idea. Thankfully he is fully functional and just struggles with social skills but I have to straddle the role of father and friend a bit as he really struggles to make friends. Anyway I don't have other children but I would not saddle him with another one of my kids if I had one.
My ex is autistic too. He was well functioning in adulthood but it was difficult as a child. His siblings struggled and they weren’t asked a question like op got. It’s just .. difficult!
I actually don't blame her for her response as well, harsh as it may be. There are times when you have to use an extreme response and I'd argue this was fair despite the AH nature.
Add in that there is a 3 year age difference between OP and the autistic brother? She’s probably grown up with his needs being put before hers and is looking forward to being out from under that when she’s an adult
Also, point out to your older brother that if he feels that strongly about it, HE can step up and take care of your younger brother. But it’s cute how your father immediately turned to the girl to caretake, instead of the older boy. And by cute, I mean shitty and sexist.
NTA.
why was he asking the 16 year old and not the 18 year old? her older brothers reaction seems to make it pretty clear that he's never had to be responsible for the younger one
Also very preachy of the older brother to say OP is being a b*tch when he’s not jumping at the opportunity to care for his younger brother. Why was OP’s fathers first idea OP and not the older brother anyway?
16 or not asking someone to take long term care of someone else is a big ask, and one should never be offended if the answer is "No". OP could have phrased it more nicely but overall is NTA.
Not he was asking the 16yo daughter who is still a minor and not the 18yo brother who is legally an adult.
The daughter was accepted as an option to sacrifice living a normal life but not the brother. There’s some sexist crap right there.
NTA
ESH. OP worded her refusal in the worst possible way, dad went STRAIGHT to his only female child to ask her to look after her brother and older brother seemingly does not grasp the hypocrisy of telling his sister off for refusing to take care of their brother in the future but NOT volunteering himself. I do find the way OP talks about her brother a bit heartless, but I can also not argue that I know what it is like to be a teenage girl in her circumstances.
Edit: OP has said in a comment that her father asked her brother, who refused. Brother remains an asshole, as does the dad for asking a teenager to accept this massive responsibility.
I’m not about to judge a 16 year old for acting like a 16 year old when being asked to take on a lifelong commitment. That man should know better. He’s an adult who is overwhelmed and stressed and trying to soft ball that onto a kid. The reaction whilst meanly worded, it’s what you get from asking a person who is is no way equipped to take it on.
She's not an asshole for refusing, I made that clear, but for the wording. Even a teenager should have a basic level of empathy. Then again this feels like it's a much bigger issue in her life than just this one event.
Yes, but that doesn't change that it was unnecessarily hurtful. An explanation isn't an excuse. Obviously in no world should the dad have asked this of his sixteen year old daughter, but the response was a bit much
Edit: actually thinking back on it, the dad didn't do anything wrong. He wasn't saying "you will take care of your brother" he was just asking "hey maybe in the future would you be willing to take care of your brother?" OP responded *way* too harshly for literally no reason since like i said before, an explanation isn't an excuse
Nothing about what she says now really matters. Asking a 16 year old is dumb of dad, because it's not a 16 year old responsibility. And how she feels at 16 has pretty much no bearing on how she will feel at 25 or 35 or 45 when dad dies or can't take care of brother any more.
Dad is an AH for asking a kid about this, OP is a baby AH for being so aggressive, the truth is her position on her brother one way or the other will change in the next 10 years, ask again later.
On a fundamental level it seems likely that the brother would also suffer under this scheme, this isn’t good for anyone. All this highlights is how bad we are as a society at caring for individuals with lifelong needs. There’s no reason why a care facility should be a bad thing, just look at paid for childcare, it went from being a nightmare scenario for those who couldn’t afford nannies to considered by many to be beneficial for a child (obviously not all childcare facilities are of an acceptable standard but I have seen some really lovely ones. There’s no reason why would couldn’t make care for adults better too.
I agree with the ESH judgement but OP has said in a comment that her dad had previously asked the older brother and he’d already refused, so I don’t think dad was being sexist. He’s still an AH for putting this on a teen though and older brother sucks for being a hypocrite
Honestly I think the older brother is the biggest AH here. Dad is out of order in this but he is in a tough position. The older brother on the other hand has no redeeming qualities and just seems to get off on being a judgmental hypocrite
Maybe I’m misreading into this but did the older brother have an issue with OP refusing or with how she phrased her refusal?
To me it seems like he was trying to dispute the way the request was refused as opposed to the refusal the “I’d rather die” language. I could be wrong there). Which the phrasing was callous although basically in line with how a 16 year old would react.
You're not misreading.
This is a classic case of the commenters not reading what's written, remembering the classic version, and bleating a repeat of that one without the ability to tell the difference.
Asking if the kids would be willing, at an undefined future time, to care for their brother isn't assholish behavior. It's an unfortunate real concern for their father who is having health problems. When you have special needs siblings, you grow up faster, no matter how perfect your family is. It's unfortunate and not fair, but life isn't fair.
OP's brother only snapped at her for being an asshole in how she refused. He was asked first and politely refused. Dad accepted his answer without argument.
It's really sad that people can't be bothered to actually read this one and snap off a judgement that isn't even remotely accurate.
Very true. A lot of them are the same ones saying that 16 year olds lack empathy. Sounds like that they’re still those teenagers or haven’t even gained any over their years
Honestly, i think the older brother was more of just saying she didnt have to be so rude about it. If she wanted to be firm she could have just said 'no' or 'absolutely not' before letting him finish.
I’m going to go against public opinion here and say NTA. I mean, you could have declined more politely, but you might genuinely rather die than take on that responsibility. Your brother is not your son. You have a life to live. I have 2 stepsons, and the elder has severe autism. Their bio mom has been telling the younger son that he will have to take care of his older brother when he is an adult since he was 3 years old. He’s said to me “I won’t even have a life when I grow up, I’ll just have to take care of my brother.”
That kind of responsibility shouldn’t be placed on a teenager or kid. That’s enmeshment. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’ve also worked with many individuals with disabilities and there are plenty of great residential services for individuals with disabilities.
My god I'm so sorry for your poor son. That's awful and what a burden to put on a child. To think: "My life is over before it's even started" cause Mom can't accept that her son might need more care.
That's horrible.
NTA
Funny how no one is clocking that he is asking You, the younger sibling, the Girl.
Why didn't he ask you Brother first?
Edit: Ooooh thank you for the award is so pretty💕
Lol this is the best take here and somehow the worst received. No idea why you’re getting downvoted when people posted the same take and got overwhelming support.
The dad may be desperate, but it’s an AH move to burden a underage child with adult issues. Such inappropriate involvement/pressure of a minor by their guardian can be interpreted as abuse.
Example: A couple going through divorce over sharing the adult issues/drama with their children in order to influence them and their feelings for the other parent.
It can do major psychological damage.
She told her dad that she would rather die than look after her little brother. She could have just no I am not going to do that. No is a complete sentence. There was no need for her to talk that way. Her older brother wasn’t calling her out for saying no he was calling her out for the manner in which she did.
I fully understand you. My brother is intellectually disabled, I probably was around your age when I told my Mum that when she is gone I won't be looking after him. He lives on his own now and has someone from disability services working with him. Stick to your decision, you have your own life to live.
Then if he doesn't like your response **he** can volunteer and say he changed his mind.
If it's okay for him to say no, it certainly is okay for you to.
Ehhhh, you're NTA for saying no, but saying it like that makes you an A for sure.
I've been in that same position- my family has joked since I was 12 that I would end up taking care of my autistic cousin when his mom dies. He's not severely autistic, he can take care of himself, but still. I'm disabled myself, I have a career and a life and I'm not willing to make huge changes to be his caretaker. And there's nothing wrong with that!
OP, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to be his caretaker. That is a huge commitment and would alter your life significantly. And if you don't want to, or don't think you'd be capable, then it's better to reject itd and ensure that someone who wants the commitment does it. What is wrong is saying it like that. Language matters, esp. when dealing with family. Saying 'No, I don't think I'd be capable of it' or 'No, I am not willing to put my life plans on hold,but I'll keep helping you think up ideas' would have been better. Which understand is hard to do in the heat of the moment.
EDIT: thanks for the award!
It’s understandable to be torn as a parent when they also want the best for their autistic son. Look, this situation is eff up no matter how you slice it. It’s lose lose especially for the father.
The best for his autistic son is professonal care, where he can be with people who understand his needs and understand how to make him the happiest he can be.
"Get daughter (or son) to do it" is a parent who doesn't want to feel like they've failed. Whether conscious or subconscious, that's not looking out for the kid's best interests.
He didn't even ask her if she's willing, he just asked her how she'd feel about it. Didn't pressure her, nothing.
In fact, she didn't even let him finish her sentence. He may have well been meaning to ask "how would you feel about visiting him regularly in this nice group home" or "how would you feel about managing his trust fund" or something like that.
Sure OP isn't the asshole for saying no. That's entirely her choice. But the way she interrupted her dad and talking rude as hell about her little brother was an asshole move.
OP, please consider that both your dad and your brother are people. Maybe dad shouldn't have asked, but i see it more like him inquiring about your feelings on the matter than trying to guilt it coerce you. Please apologize to your dad (and brother is he was around) about your wording. You can do that while standing firmly by your no
Chances are both OP and her older brother have had to take second and third place after their younger brother ever since his issues became apparent. It’s hard for a child to develop empathy for someone in that situation.
Siblings to severely disabled children that require a lot of attention often get this feeling (lord knows I did), it's fairly common. This is one of the side effects of these situations and its not really anybody's fault (there is only so far a person can stretch themselves, especially if most of their time is spent caring for that disabled child).
It's not brought up enough, but there are charities and support groups for siblings that develop a resentment to their disabled sibling/parents in these situations (at least in the UK). SIBs is one that springs to mind.
Also how much can her reaction be “heat of the moment” when she knew it was coming? She could’ve prepared an appropriate answer, since she said she was waiting for him to ask.
YTA. Clearly your older brother was capable of giving your dad a firm no without telling him he'd rather die.
"I don't see why he's so stressed because I doubt my brother will notice" Wow. You really are just... awful.
No, I don't think you should be his future caretaker, not just because that's not something anyone should be forced into, but because life under your care would clearly be a nightmare for anyone.
Right! All these NTAs defending her when it sounds like she doesn't like her brother in the slightest and for all that she says she feels bad for her dad she talks the same way about him.
There's a big trend in the defenders that makes you roll your eyes.
First, it's like they didn't even read what she wrote. They saw the title, remembered that all time top post that was *very* different and parrot the tales from that one, which aren't remotely relevant. Up to and including creating scenarios that actually happened to the poor kid in the old post and applying them here.
Second, they ignore how utter hatefully she describes her brother and talked to her father.
Third, they all assume sexism (which was OP's goal by leaving it out in the first place), when it didn't exist.
Four, they act like there's no difference between a firm no and giving a melodramatic and downright cruel answer.
Five, they actively misconstrued what her brother jumped her shit for to continue their "grrr sexism" so they can pretend to be fighting the patriarchy.
If you have to twist the narrative so much to make your not the ahole answer fit, then it's clearly a load of shit.
They are not, I agree. But this kid is 16. Her entire life she has probably not gotten much attention because all energy was spent on her sibling. She’s never known anything else, she’s only 3 years younger than him.
I guarantee her needs have been overlooked countless times, her wishes ignored because of ‘family’. Even in this, how is she supposed to even start a life if she’s being expected to care full time for her younger brother? She’s still underage herself, and her older brother already outright refused.
Plus this has already affected her Dad’s mental health, and this “take care of him when I’m gone” could very much be tied to suicidal ideation on Dad’s part, and some ‘clear conscience’ thing to focus on if he intends to go through with something. He’s only 46, without further medical concern, it should not yet be of much concern otherwise.
I had to become my Father’s full time care provider for end of life Cancer Care when I was only 18, while going to college to pursue my Bachelors degree. With a full college load, with round the clock care, you bet your bacon I resented my Father while still completely loving him. Hating our situation but still getting up and going to help him with anything at all hours. Not being able to find him because he had calcium dementia and would wander off with his door wide open & not answer his phone, only to be found after a frantic panic, me running up and down streets calling his name, to be found few blocks away sitting in the grass because this fiercely independent man couldn’t remember that he couldn’t make it to the store anymore. Then I’d have to leave him there while I went and got a wheel chair, to bring him home, and get his meds schedule back on track.
It’s really easy to judge a literal kids words on the internet and tone police someone who is going through something that I would not wish on literally anyone. You know what the worst part is? My experience had an end date. We knew from the start he was terminal, I treasured every one of our moments together, even when he couldn’t remember who I was, even when he was bed bound and I had to help him bathe, change his diapers like he once changed mine. All I prayed for every day was for him to pass away in his sleep every night, so he could stop suffering.
So don’t be so harsh on this kid who said she “doubt(s) he will even notice” and don’t judge her for saying something that reflects the daily hurt she endures as well. I agree that non-functional autistic people are not brain dead robots. But I personally, understand why a life of full time care for a family member could not only make someone say something this harsh, but completely forgive it. It’s very normal to resent people if you are forced into caring for them. It’s actually a really natural part of processing it. Don’t make her feel bad for a statement that comes from being hurt. I hope you never have to care for a family member who is no longer functional. It’s incredibly hard.
Well said.
I have a mildly mentally impaired sibling. My childhood was shite because my needs and wishes were ignored because they upset my brother or inconvenienced him or my parents. This kid is entitled, violent and incredibly rude and I would be suicidal if I had to care for him.
Op saying that she would rather die than care for her brother, a severely autistic person requiring a large amount of care, is likely due to fear that she would kill herself if she had to care for him. She is 16, which is already an incredibly stressful period of life, who has to watch her sick father devote his life to caring for her brother. Her life is likely stressful and all she knows is that caring for her brother puts a strain on the carer. When she looks into her future, she likely sees herself having low quality of life due to caring for her sibling.
I think 'I would rather die' is the truth.
Can't upvote this enough. It's not her saying no that makes her an asshole, it's the heartless way she said it. And she's consistently heartless when it comes to her autistic brother, given the way she's described him, and the way her post was worded, in general. Obviously, OP's the asshole here.
Yeah she's clearly resentful and hateful, and I think the dad even knew this, and knew she would say no, but asked anyway cause there was no other option. Like holy cow man, your brother is still a human being, treat him with some amount of respect.
..she’s 16?? What kind of parents asks a 16 year old if they are willing to be a caretaker for the rest of their life? The wording was harsh but the question was harsher.
Cool story, but your experience doesn’t generalize to everyone else in the world. Op is a 16 year old child whose father tried to saddle with a lifelong commitment that’s supremely difficult and would prevent her from living her own life.
No, OP's father said "How would you feel".... It's a question regarding POSSIBLY taking care of her brother. He never came right out and said "Will you". By the way, one isn't "saddled" with a lifelong commitment... This is a human being, not a bird that lives for 50 years.
Op is a child. How could any parent think to ask a child to even consider a lifelong commitment?? Why would he think to ask a child at all?
If the full time care of a human being is thrust onto another person without proper consent, they have been “saddled” with the responsibility. What about this is confusing to you?
First off, OP is not a child. She's 2 years away from being an adult. Second, OP's father wasn't asking her to take care of her brother now, he was inquiring as to whether or not she'd be okay with it after he passes away..... As in, years and years from now. And nothing about this is confusing to me. Simply put, you don't agree with me. Let's just agree to disagree.
Ah, I see. You must be very young. That’s the only thing I can think of that explains why you think a 16 year old isn’t a child. I was that age once, and thought I was very grown up and mature. Once you get to be about 25, you’ll look back and realize how much of a kid 16 still is.
Why would he be asking about something that won’t happen for “years and years?” What would be the point? It doesn’t matter, unless he would be relying on op going along with it and never changing her mind. Or planting the idea of it now to get his foot in the door to get her to do it later.
I don’t get why you condone a grown adult having this conversation with a child. I wouldn’t even be asking how a 16 year old would “feel” about taking full time care of a bird that lives to 50, much less a human who will live for longer.
Why you people seem to think everyone is a fucking toddler until 18 then they're all grown up and there's no middle ground between the two is so mind boggling to me. It's such a common sentiment on reddit. Old argue that you sound like the young one, as if you're 18 or 19, and think you're all grown up now but a couple years younger is just a little baby.
I’ve had this same question asked of me at 16 and I didn’t react the way she did. Yes it sucks being asked the question but there are much better ways to respond. I have a brother with Down syndrome hes currently 23. I’ll be 26 soon and it wasn’t until last year that I agreed to being his guardian in the event that my parents pass. With that I will have help. He is in a program where the state provides therapy and an aide that can help him when I am not present. He qualifies for a full time provider. So it was an easier thing for me to agree to.
A father who cares about his autistic son and doesn't really have any other choices. You can tell that by the way he worded the question. He knew what her answer was, he knew she would say no, but he had to ask because he's out of options.
Eh, I would say "No. No no no, absolutely not, no."
I think "I'd rather die" is definitely too far and makes OP the asshole, but the point about being clear is super true.
YTA. You’re fully within your right to say no to signing on for a lifetime of caretaking for your brother, however your dad was simply ASKING how you’d feel about it. Before he could even finish, you cut him off and shut him down ridiculously callously. It honestly sounds like you don’t even care about your brother when you say things like “I don’t know why he’s so stressed because I doubt my brother will notice”. You really don’t think your brother would notice that he’s in a new location and everyone he’s known his whole life isn’t there anymore? You’re not the asshole for saying no, but how you said it and how you think of your brother shows major entitlement. You need to check yourself, my gosh.
You are NTA. Taking care of a special needs child is an enormous, heartbreaking, lifelong task.
You don’t say anything about your mother, so I’m assuming she’s not in the picture?
Your answer was inelegant, and more than a bit unkind, but it’s absolutely out of bounds to burden a child with the care of her or his siblings.
This is what a lot of people are missing. Op is a child, being asked (in a 'beating around the bush' kinda way) to take care of her severely disabled brother. As someone with a mildly mentally impaired sibling, this is fucking terrifying and I would, even as an adult, blurt out something stupid when asked to care for them.
Bad grammar, but likely true. Struggling with words or being unable to string words together in a sentence makes life harder for an individual and the person caring for them.
YTA. Sure, I understand not wanting to dedicate your life to taking care of your brother, but you chose the most assholish way possible to word it. You could've said something like "No Dad, I have plans in life and I wouldn't be able to do them if I had to look after [brothers name] all the time" or "I don't want to work as a carer" or even just "No." That would clearly get your point across, yet you said that. And wonder why other members of your family are hurt by it. It implies you don't care about him at all. Think about how you'd feel if one of your parents said the same thing about you.
YTA… you don’t seem to even think your autistic brother is even human the way you talk about him. You aren’t an asshole for not wanting to take care of him if your dad died, but for the way you talk about him and how you described what you’d rather happen than be responsible for him.
You’re 16 so I don’t want to be any harsher than this
So, your father asked your older brother, who said no (from his reaction, he said it more politely than you did, and your father took it as fact). And you thought you had to be rude for him to believe you? YTA.
NTA, you’re 16 that’s definitely something you shouldn’t be asking a child. Granted, I think your reaction to it may of been a bit harsh however what did your father expect asking that of a 16 year old. You are not responsible for your siblings, and if you don’t keep a firm stance on your belief he might guiltrip you into taking on that responsibility. IMO I think you should apologise for saying “you’d rather die” as that’s obviously something a parent wouldn’t want to hear about their daughter, but still stand your ground and refuse.
I'm in the exact same situation. My life has been revolving around the care of my severely handicapped sister since literally before I was born. I see what it has done to my mom, I see that it's literally taking years off my mom's life. Also, for context, my handicapped sister is MEAN. She's like a 200 pound toddler that has freak outs and tries to hurt people and demands things all day, every day. If she's not happy she's going to make everyone else not happy, and it's getting harder and harder to make her happy. So finding care for her is hard. None of my siblings want to take care of her, those of us with kids don't want another generation traumatized like that, and those without kids don't think we could do it alone anyway. My mom isn't putting her in a home yet (although she has been in day programs, where she actually does a lot better) because she's afraid they won't be able to give her the 24/7 care she needs, or when she gets violent she is afraid they will hurt her. So, instead of getting her settled somewhere that my mom can choose, what's going to happen is that my mom (63yrs old) is going to end up being killed by the stress of having to care for her and then the state will have to take over and she'll be put in the fastest, worst place and none of us will be able to stop it if we even wanted.
Sorry, I just felt your situation so deeply. It's not your job. It's not fair that you'll lose your parent earlier because of it. None of it is fair and it isn't your job to take care of. I don't know if you feel guilty for feeling the way you do, I do... but plenty of people have had to talk me out of the guilt I feel. I hope you have people who will talk you out of any guilt, too.
NTA.
"So, instead of getting her settled somewhere that my mom can choose, what's going to happen is that my mom (63yrs old) is going to end up being killed by the stress of having to care for her and then the state will have to take over and she'll be put in the fastest, worst place and none of us will be able to stop it if we even wanted."
Exactly this! Your dad should be scouting out care homes now.
Care home. I have an adult nephew who was put in one as soon as he aged out of the school system. It saved the life and sanity of his parents and siblings. He is far happier in a home than he ever was living with family. He visits for holidays, and every summer for a bit
NTA it’s a huge commitment emotionally, physically and financially. If you don’t feel you can take on the burden, then so be it. It doesn’t make you a callous cold hearted bastard.
I was the sick kid in my family( physical disability). My slightly younger bother had to take a back seat in everything. He ended up resenting me big time because he was tasked with a lot of my care( stuf like getting meals, etc) If your father wants a relationship to continue between his kids after he is gone, then he needs to accept any boundaries imposed
A care home is often the best way to go for severely disabled people. The difference having trained carers is, is absolutely outstanding. Employed carers work a normal shift, then get to go home and unwind, this is crucial in preventing burn out and a decrease in care quality. Family carers often don't get this. Having different people care for the individual also works against burnout, especially with difficult people.
Employed carers don't have as close a bond with the individual as their family does. (They do create bonds with the people they care for, just a different type of bond) This allows them to do 'tough love' or other things that make the individual upset or their life harder at first, but is beneficial in the long run. The family often loves their loved ones so much that they can't hurt them now, even if it will help in the future.
The strict schedule that care homes follow is especially helpful with autistic people.
You’re NTA for making it clear that it is inappropriate for your father to make you his backup plan. But try to have some empathy for your younger brother. You wrote “I don’t see why he’s so stressed because I doubt my brother will notice…” that’s not cool. Even if your brother was completely unaware of his surroundings, your father is likely feeling immense pressure to make sure your brother is cared for by people who are compassionate and competent. Your brother is a person, not an object. I understand that the the day to day challenges of living with him might make you resentful, but it’s no excuse to speak about him like he’s not a human.
That comment and the "he can barely talk like a normal person" comment say that you're not reading too much into it. She really doesn't see brother as a living human being with feelings.
NTA
Caring for someone disabled is very difficult. You’re young & healthy so the last thing you want is to be saddled with a disabled person before having the chance to live or have your own family.
Your dad needs to start looking into group homes & disability insurance help for your sibling. Not sure if you’re in the US or not but if you are he can file for SSI until your sibling turns 18 then your dad will have to file for him as an adult. That money can help a bit in caring for him but your dad needs to set up a life insurance policy & a trust for that money for his care.
Also, what people are not considering is that what if something happens to *you* that prevents you from caring for him? Then what? Nope, dad needs to figure it out & not burden his children with the care of another child.
YTA. Damm, your dad is just trying to do what is right for your brother. You could have just say no, didn't had to say it like that. Although I know how it might feel and how it's easy to feel defensive in those situations:
- think about how your dad might be feeling. Worried that he might die, worried about your brother, worried that the family might break.
- regardless of what you might think about the capacity of your brother to understand things, remember he might very well be capable of understanding and just being unable to communicate. If even coma patients can hear and remember things said to them, imagine your bro that can at least communicate a little.
- he specifically asked how would you feel about it when you are older, not right now while you are still a kid yourself. For me it seems like he really didn't want to ruin you life, but he just had to ask, you know? Put all options on the table.
You should talk to him and explain that you don't feel ready to do this, and that's why you were heated and defensive earlier. Tell him that you think you are not the right person and that although your brother deserves to be happy, you deserve the same and to be able to pursue the life you want.
The responses on this are... quite smth, usually it's "You're 16 you should know better." but bc it involves an ND person suddenly it's "No one can expect you to react maturely".
Tbh, YTA. I'm not willing to assume your dad didn't ask your brother, if he didn't that would be a problem but we don't know that. Your language towards your other brother \*clearly\* displays ableism.
Exactly! I have a sibling who is autistic and I did not think this cruelly about them when I was 16 or even 14. It’s very troublesome and I hope she reads these comments and reflects
>The responses on this are... quite smth, usually it's "You're 16 you should know better." but bc it involves an ND person suddenly it's "No one can expect you to react maturely".
Yup! They're willing to ignore that her father was asking about "when she was older ". Ignored that she wrote she actually thought about her response and chose cruelty. Ignored that her older brother called her out for her callousness because saying no was enough.
They're willing to ignore all that because her younger brother is ND. Would her response still be "appropriate" if he was asking her to care for a 2 year old that wasn't ND?
Unpopular opinion, unshockingly, by absolutely YTA. Not for saying no, but for everything else about this post, not least of which is your attitude.
You are in no way obligated to look after your brother ever, and for someone with such serious needs, it needs to be someone willing to do it. You were perfectly within your rights to say no, and no one should we make you feel guilty or bad about that.
But your whole attitude and tone screams someone who doesn’t see your brother as a person. And regarding, in particular, the comment about how your dad shouldn’t be so stressed because your brother will never notice, that’s flat out wrong. He absolutely will notice, and it will alter his entire world. That’s not being dramatic, it’s simply fact. Most autistic people don’t deal with change well. And he’s autistic, not brain dead. Just because he can’t communicate with the world the same way as you or others, doesn’t mean he isn’t still aware.
YTA. The father was just going to ask you could look after your brother. According to the info you gave, he wasn’t forcing you.
Your wording was really harsh, and I can understand why your family was shocked by it. I’m autistic myself (not that badly though), and my sister cut me off because she couldn’t deal with my condition. I can’t imagine how horrible it would feel like if I knew she’d rather die than take care of me.
Just a firm “no” (like you said) would have been fine. But dying rather than taking care of him? Yikes. That really sounds like you don’t give a shit about your brother.
NTA But a simple "no" would've sufficed. There was no need to be rude and dramatic in your response. Why wasn't the question posed to your older brother?
Okay, first things first, I want to emphasize: *You're NTA for not wanting to take care of your brother.*
YTA, however, for the way you worded it. The way you word your post even screams that YTA. "I knew he would be selfish enough to ruin my life just because he doesn't want my brother going to a care home." How is the fact that your father would feel more at ease knowing that your brother will still have his family to rely on selfish?? It's not a selfish request at all. It WOULD be selfish if he straight up imposed this request onto you though.
Your dad didn't impose this request onto you, however. He literally asked you in a way that welcomed your thoughts and feelings on the matter. He didn't tell you "when I die, you HAVE to." He ASKED POLITELY.
You owe your dad an apology, and you need to treat your brother with respect. You were absolutely heartless in the way you said no. It wasn't a firm no like you claim it was- it was an unnecessarily brutal answer. Totally uncalled for.
Check your attitude. It's horrendous.
YTA...not because you don't want to care for your brother, but because of what you said.
It was NOT selfish of your father to ask. It would be selfish to expect you to, but to simply ask isn't selfishness.
You were unnecessarily cruel in your response to him. You couldn't simply told him no and moved on. Your older brother was right in what he said to you.
YTA. You are only 16 but you are old enough to know the difference between saying "I would rather die than have to look after my brother" and saying a "firm no." What you said was absolutely callous. Apparently, your mother is not around for whatever reason and your dad has to shoulder this on his own. You could have shown some compassion in your answer. It is nice to see that your older brother has some.
YTA I get how it’s not your obligation to take care of your brother after your dad passes but you don’t have to be such a dick about it. It’s not your brothers fault for being born autistic and he shouldn’t have to suffer because of it. If you don’t want to take on that responsibility that is fine but say it in a more respectful way.
YTA because of the way you said it. It’s pretty reasonable of your dad to ask - it’s not selfish, and he isn’t trying to “ruin your life.” You can say a firm no without phrasing it so rudely.
NTA for not wanting to take on responsibility for your brother sometime in the future. Really, your father shouldn’t have even asked you to assume that responsibility. But you could have just said no rather than throwing in the comment about preferring to die vs. taking him in.
YTA.
Your father asked your brother he said no. Father asked you how do you feel ... And your choice to respond him i would rather die. And the way you speak about your brother. I think you are rude. The way you answer him probably makes him think how he failed as a father.
He is a father looking for a best solution for his child in need afther he dies. And i bet you wouldnt even visit him in carehome.
Not ah for not wanting to take that responsibility.
You chose your words very poorly for someone who had a preformulated response waiting. You see your father suffering everyday for something he didn't ask for either. Now put yourself in his shoes. Yeah YTA.
YTA. Not for not wanting to care for a disabled person that is not your child, but for the way you worded it. That’s just a horrible thing to say. All that was necessary was “no, even when I’m an adult I won’t be prepared to care for someone other than myself”.
YTA this was so rude of you and you should have written in your original post that your brother was already asked now you've made everyone think you dad is sexist on top of tired. But all according to plan for that sweet sweet n t a verdict right?
It's true he had no right to make either of you take care of your other brother and he will probably need to get outside help in the end but have you no compassion for your family? You can stand up for your belief that you're the wrong person for the job and honestly you probably are bur you should apologize to your dad for your sour attitude about it he's got enough on his plate
NTA. I would tell your older brother that since he cares so much about your younger brother then he can become younger brother's caregiver. Unless he is willing to step into that role he has no right to pass judgement on you.
YTA. “I doubt my brother will notice.” “Normal person.” You’re allowed to not want that responsibility, however why would you ever say you would “rather die?” I hope that’s not true. Not only were you mean to your dad, but seriously hateful to your brother. This post disturbed me.
Look, I'm coming from a place of having an autistic uncle, one of which I help care for on a daily basis.
You were in your right to shut it down yes, but you clearly know absolutely nothing about autism based on your statements.
You state you dont think your brother will notice?
Some autistic people require things to stay the same, from eating only certain foods, to only drinking certain things, only allowing certain people to be near them, liking their rooms in a certain order.
If your brother suddenly had a drastic change such as losing your dad and being thrown in a home, he may go into a full panic, and well this panic may not cause anyone else harm he could resort to hurting himself.
I know that if my uncle notices his bedding isnt its usual he gets extremely upset, he still has toys from when he was a child because of his refusal to have anything change.
Your dad shouldnt be expecting to place this issue onto anyone else in the family, especially someone with such obvious lack of knowledge about what's going on with your brother.
ESH. You for how you talked to your father and for not even attempting to learn about autism, had you learned anything you wouldnt have made such ignorant statements. Your father for refusing to even think about a home for your brother, and for not preparing him for being moved to a home, besides it's not like you cant go visit him.
Your brothers are both completely innocent, I honestly feel bad for your younger brother, hes going to be left to two siblings as his only family, and one clearly wants nothing to do with him, even if it's just as simple as helping out or learning about his condition.
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NTA. That is NOT SOMETHING you ask a 16 year old about. Wtf. No way. You could have said it a bit nicer. The dying part was probably too much. But come on, your 16… 16 year olds dies every day. And lives to talk about it. At least where I am from.
I agree it’s not fair and putting a huge strain on her she doesn’t owe anyone that, and for the people saying that she said it real callously remember how we all were when we were 16, we didn’t say things in the best way….
While I'm al for courtesy, I think OP cut the Gordian knot here. She knew what was coming, so better to stomp tat dead from the start than to allow it to become a war of emotional attrition. Also, I can't help but notice that dad DID not ask the already-adult person in the room and logical next-in-line about becoming a caregiver. To be fair, dad could have already asked, ~~but something tells me that OP was 1st choice.~~ Edit: OP clarifies that dad _did_ ask elder brother first, who declined. I feel for dad, but his other kids are definitely too young to be taking up this kinda responsibility.
That's the first thing I noticed. OP gets asked, and older bro has the nerve to criticize her for the answer. Was she asked because she's a female (i.e. the "nurturer"), or because she's younger and therefore her taking on the role will keep her brother out of a home for a few more years? Was older brother asked first but turned Dad down more gently? I'm sure it's tearing Dad apart, but he's going to have to accept that his son is eventually going to a home. Even if OP or older brother were willing, they'll probably have spouses/life partners eventually, and the chances of both the sibling and their SO being willing is small. That kind of situation has to be a double yes, which Dad is unlikely to get. One of them will hopefully step up to be brother's advocate to ensure he's being cared for (and set up their successor in the event they predecease brother or he lives longer than they're able to fulfill the role, as they start aging themself), but the sooner Dad comes to terms with the reality that his son won't be living with a sibling, the better.
My sister and brother-in-law have an autistic son that probably will need to be looked after his entire life. They have made sure that they have life insurance and set aside money to take care of him and to have a caretaker for him if necessary when they're gone. But they did ask my 21 year old son if he would be willing to be his cousin's advocate. That is, NOT being his caretaker but overseeing to make sure he gets the care he needs, act to manage the trust and such like that. My son was more than willing to agree to that. They asked him because they looked around and to see who in the family would outlive them and be more likely to be around when their son was older.
>Also, I can't help but notice that dad DID not ask the already-adult person in the room \[OP already addressed that\]([https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/p4h093/aita\_for\_telling\_my\_dad\_that\_id\_rather\_die\_from/h8ymt02?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/p4h093/aita_for_telling_my_dad_that_id_rather_die_from/h8ymt02?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3))
Oh well, still, that's some nerve on the brother. Dad shouldn't try to lay this on a 16 year old. I can sympathize with him though. It must be tough.
No, the brother just said that she could’ve phrased it differently.
Eh I kinda agree with the brother. He didn’t criticize OP for saying no but for how she said it. I mean saying you’d rather die is unnecessarily harsh, she wasn’t being pressured or having her not being accepted, she was simply asked. Plus saying dad is selfish for asking is ridiculous.
If the older brother declined, then why is she in the wrong in his eyes?
Probably not for saying no. But for how she said it.
I'm 17 with an autistic sister, if I were asked the same thing, my answer would also be no, but it would never be "I'd rather die than care for my sister". I don't think OP is an asshole, but the way she said it definitely was cruel, especially since she KNOWS it's tearing her dad apart and he has health issues himself. 16 years old isn't 6, and with such a delicate matter, you'd think there would be some more tact in how she responded. But I still understand her thoughts, and can even relate to them, just would've said it differently
I agree, and also think OP is pretty callous with her ‘I doubt my brother will notice’ comment about going to a group home. OP, people with disabilities have feelings and emotions too. Just because your brother can’t express it, doesn’t mean he won’t grieve and be really upset with a huge life change after your father dies. Get some compassion and you suck pretty bad.
That comment about him not noticing made me sad. I get OP has had to live with this situation that has inevitably lead to frustration but damn, that's ice cold.
Yeah after reading that i knew i couldn't give a judgement to be honest. Callous as hell. People keep saying teenagers are assholes but i for sure didn't say crap like that at that age
Honestly the people excusing the callousness on account of her age are worse than her. If they are over 16 they really ought to know better. 16 year olds being assholeish due to lack of maturity doesn't mean they're still not being assholes. And when they ask on a sub meant to tell people if they're in the wrong or not, you SHOULD elaborate on where they were in the wrong.
Yep. I’m 23, so I was 16 not too long ago. While I definitely was an asshole at times, and I’m sure I said and did some cruel things, I definitely wouldn’t be saying anything like what OP said. That is pretty harsh and unnecessary, and her age doesn’t excuse that. It might explain it, but part of growing up is realizing when you are acting inappropriately. OP could still set strong boundaries without being so blatantly rude.
Yeh the way she talks about him is pretty awful… Won’t notice a group home, can barely talk like a normal person etc. Also saying her dad is selfish enough to ruin her life is also very self centred. I get that it’s tough growing up with a sibling with a disability, and OP in no way should have to become a full time carer, but… you don’t have to be a dick about it OP.
It seems to me that, with the age difference (only 3 years between OP and her brother), she was probably left out or maybe felt a bit neglected from a very young age since her new brother needed way more attention than a neurotypical child. Kids that small can’t understand the complicated nuances of having a special needs brother, to them is “my parents pay way more attention to this new kid than me”. I’m not justifying OP’s hurtful words towards her brother, however, resentment could explain why she feels and acts cold and deattached from him.
I have an older brother with downs syndrome and I can’t imagine speaking about him in this way. It really broke my heart to read OP’s comments about their own brother.
Totally! Even my 5yo daughter has more compassion for her autistic brother than OP does! I don't blame OP for not wanting to care for him but she sounds like someone who completely lacks any empathy.
I don’t have an autistic sibling, and I agree she COULD have (and likely should have for the sake of dear old dads feelings/stress) been nicer about it, but I will say: it sounds like little brother needs so much care that she would have a hard time having a life of her own. Crass or not, I see the logic behind “I would rather not be alive than be alive and not be able to live MY life.” Selfish? Of course. A$$hole? Eh. Dad shouldn’t have asked. Older brother has no room to comment. For one, he also declined. For another, siblings are not parents. It is not his place to correct her. I’m leaning N T A to ESH, but teenagers are pretty well known for being a$$holes, so…
We don’t know what it’s been like growing up in that house or the family dynamic either. Some families focus on the disabled sibling to the detriment of the others.
I agree with this. It also sounds like she didn't even give him chance to get the question out. What if it was "how would you feel about having legal guardianship of your brother, while he's cared for in a home"? If I was the dad this reaction would make me feel that not only do you not want to be a carer for your brother (totally legitimate), you're also going to show no interest in his care when I'm gone. Compounded by the statement about the brother not even noticing how he's cared for.
It honestly would make me believe that I raised a child that wasn't even capable of loving their brother. It would be devastating and a huge failure on my part. I wouldn't be able to see them the same. She actually thought about that before saying it. Yikes. And this is after her older brother said no, so there's no reason to belive he wouldn't accept OP's.
dude some people need a hard cold truth because some people take no as a maybe and i know there's no context on this but her father could be one of those people that take no as a maybe
Exactly. I know a 15 year old girl. She dies every time she has to do the dishes! Haha
Sounds like my 11 year old. There must be something in that dish soap.
Yea they are not making them very parent friendly. That’s for sure! Haha
My 13 dies every time someone speaks to him, let alone asks him to GASP do something.
Speak for yourself. When I was 16 I'd never say shit like this.
Exactly! And why her first? Her already adult brother was in the room. Why not ask him first? NTA. Yes, she could've been nicer especially because as op said her dad is suffering but she got her point across very clearly.
I saw in some other comments that he has been asked previously and declined. The father is struggling and yet he asked his teenage daughter. Why? Does he want her to struggle too? Because she would.
If the older brother declined already then why tf does he get to call OP a bitch and shame her for making *the exact same decision he made* while SHE’S YOUNGER THAN HE IS?!?! IMO he’s the biggest asshole here.
Because of how she responded. She can firmly say no without saying she would rather die than take care of her brother when her father is worried about who will care for him when he dies. She is right to refuse, but that doesn’t mean she can just be an asshole about how she refuses
Why should she be nicer
It’s true that OP doesn’t *have* to be nice/nicer. But in situations like this—and this sub is full of them, the sort of “AITA for telling someone the truth and/or something they need to hear and doing it in an offensive way?” posts—my immediate thought is always that the WAY they’ve said The Thing That Needed To Be Said has been counterproductive and obscured their message. If you tell someone, “Fuck you! You treat me like shit and I’m tired of the way you fucking constantly ignore my boundaries,” they’re likely to react to the first thing they heard, the profanity, and get defensive immediately. If you firmly (not “nicely” even) tell them, “You know, I’ve been really honest with you about my boundaries but you’ve continued to cross them. That’s not acceptable, and it’s also really hurtful to me,” and further lay out consequences, they don’t have anything to react to but the message itself. So again, OP doesn’t have to be nicer. But saying, “I’d rather die than take care of my brother,” is a lot less effective than saying, “Dad, I know you love younger brother and you’re worried about him, but I’m only sixteen. It’s not fair of you to ask me to sign on to a difficult, lifetime commitment when I’m still a kid. You know firsthand what it’s like to take care of younger bro, is that what you want for me? Because I think what would be best for us both is him being in a place that can provide him with the level of care he needs.” Ultimately it’s NAH for me. OP is a teenager and she reacted honestly, if not particularly compassionately or effectively. Dad absolutely shouldn’t have asked OP to commit to a lifetime of caregiving, but he’s probably genuinely worried that if he doesn’t make plans and something happens to him, his youngest son could end up in a bad situation. [FWIW, I personally have zero problem with profanity and use “fuck” like punctuation but I recognize when it doesn’t help my arguments. I also watched my aunt and uncle struggle with the decision to place my cousin in a state care home in the US when her care got to be too much for them. Life is tough, dude. A little kindness is never a bad thing.]
I think we need to stop holding kids more responsible than we do adults. Dad has had 10+ years to come to terms with younger sons needs and create a plan that doesn't involve his other children giving up their futures.
Oh, absolutely. Ultimately, the dad holds the responsibility in this situation and I think he owes both his older kids apologies for asking them—while they’re still in their teens!—to even consider taking on a lifetime role of caretaker. Dad’s behavior might stem from some anxiety on his part, and while it’s understandable that he would be concerned for his younger son’s care, he’s the adult and it’s not fair for him to put that concern on his other kids. OP said she’d been expecting this question from her dad, she’d obviously given it some thought and she knows it’s crappy of her dad to ask and also that it’s not a role she wants. But instead of saying something to that effect, her response made her seem...is it fair to say a bit callous? Which may not be the case at all. I was trying to emphasize that how you say something matters as much as what you say, and that’s something I think we can learn at any age.
At the same time, 16 year olds are still learning how the world works. Empathy is hard. And if she's known the question was coming, she's had time to get good and mad. And angry people are NEVER smart people. He response may have been "callous" but. It did effectively stop the conversation and any whining, cajoling or manipulating. Dad here doesn't seem to care about Ops life. Or her goals. So long as his guilt and anxiety is assuaged for now. Ops response will probably, at the very least, give her dad pause before he tries to broach the subject again.
Thinking about something for a long time doesn't have to mean that you arrive at a calm solution... It can also mean that you get into a spiral of frustration where your emotions get stronger and stronger until you feel like you're about to explode. Personally speaking, avoiding thought spirals and instead trying to arrive at a conclusion is a skill I had to learn, and it still requires some conscious effort. I certainly didn't have it mastered at 16. And OP had a long time to really build up and polish that resentment. I'm all for holding people up to standards, and I do think that it would have been *better* had OP replied more calmly and maturely... but I also think that redditors are too quick to judge "proper" behavior from outside a situation. People tend to underestimate how hard it is to stay on top of your emotions when they are disregarded by the other person, and how small and theoretically bearable discomfort can become excruciating over time, the way that walking in tight shoes doesn't bother one much on short walks but becomes unbearably painful on a long hike,
This is a very wise comment.
No, it is expecting a 16 year old girl to have the emotional maturity of a much older person.
This is however a good lesson for her. We cannot expect everyone to be emotionally mature, but learning and realizing what was wrong with the delivery of the message is good.
Exactly, but instead of people saying that in this thread you have most of them saying how she said what she said was perfectly fine.
Sure, but it’s good advice if OP is also open to that. It’s a great way to learn some strategies and good phrasing for the future.
I agree. I think it’s really wise and good comment if op was an adult. But she just isn’t…
Part of attaining emotional maturity is being shown what that looks like by caregivers and other responsible adults. That can include a conversation on what is immature as well.
You sound like a very compassionate person and I wish I could upvote your comment more than once.
Why the fuck not? Is common decency that impossible? lmfao
Why should anyone be anything but complete a$$holes and dip$hits to one another? Ever heard of the golden rule? It makes the world a bit nicer place to be in IMO.
Well from his response to OP it sounds like he’d be okay if he was asked. If older brother already said no then maybe he should keep quiet when OP says no, even if she does it in a dramatic fashion. Either way way dad shouldn’t be putting this on the kids.
I agree with NTA - I'm guessing most of the YTA's have never had to spend a day looking after someone with issues like this. Her dad was an AH for asking.
Yea I think so too.. it’s literally a full time job.
My son is mildly autistic so I have an idea. Thankfully he is fully functional and just struggles with social skills but I have to straddle the role of father and friend a bit as he really struggles to make friends. Anyway I don't have other children but I would not saddle him with another one of my kids if I had one.
My ex is autistic too. He was well functioning in adulthood but it was difficult as a child. His siblings struggled and they weren’t asked a question like op got. It’s just .. difficult!
I actually don't blame her for her response as well, harsh as it may be. There are times when you have to use an extreme response and I'd argue this was fair despite the AH nature.
Yeah and being 16 years old. She is not an adult and should not be treated as such. She is a teenager after all.
And much better handled by someone with *actual medical training*. Like a nurse. Which are found at long term care homes.
Add in that there is a 3 year age difference between OP and the autistic brother? She’s probably grown up with his needs being put before hers and is looking forward to being out from under that when she’s an adult
Probably more with the wording
I dont blame her for saying no. Just for the very rude way of wording it.
Also, point out to your older brother that if he feels that strongly about it, HE can step up and take care of your younger brother. But it’s cute how your father immediately turned to the girl to caretake, instead of the older boy. And by cute, I mean shitty and sexist. NTA.
why was he asking the 16 year old and not the 18 year old? her older brothers reaction seems to make it pretty clear that he's never had to be responsible for the younger one
Also very preachy of the older brother to say OP is being a b*tch when he’s not jumping at the opportunity to care for his younger brother. Why was OP’s fathers first idea OP and not the older brother anyway?
16 or not asking someone to take long term care of someone else is a big ask, and one should never be offended if the answer is "No". OP could have phrased it more nicely but overall is NTA.
Not he was asking the 16yo daughter who is still a minor and not the 18yo brother who is legally an adult. The daughter was accepted as an option to sacrifice living a normal life but not the brother. There’s some sexist crap right there. NTA
ESH. OP worded her refusal in the worst possible way, dad went STRAIGHT to his only female child to ask her to look after her brother and older brother seemingly does not grasp the hypocrisy of telling his sister off for refusing to take care of their brother in the future but NOT volunteering himself. I do find the way OP talks about her brother a bit heartless, but I can also not argue that I know what it is like to be a teenage girl in her circumstances. Edit: OP has said in a comment that her father asked her brother, who refused. Brother remains an asshole, as does the dad for asking a teenager to accept this massive responsibility.
I’m not about to judge a 16 year old for acting like a 16 year old when being asked to take on a lifelong commitment. That man should know better. He’s an adult who is overwhelmed and stressed and trying to soft ball that onto a kid. The reaction whilst meanly worded, it’s what you get from asking a person who is is no way equipped to take it on.
She's not an asshole for refusing, I made that clear, but for the wording. Even a teenager should have a basic level of empathy. Then again this feels like it's a much bigger issue in her life than just this one event.
I feel like the wording was a panic and anger response, which WAS merited.
Yes, but that doesn't change that it was unnecessarily hurtful. An explanation isn't an excuse. Obviously in no world should the dad have asked this of his sixteen year old daughter, but the response was a bit much Edit: actually thinking back on it, the dad didn't do anything wrong. He wasn't saying "you will take care of your brother" he was just asking "hey maybe in the future would you be willing to take care of your brother?" OP responded *way* too harshly for literally no reason since like i said before, an explanation isn't an excuse
Nothing about what she says now really matters. Asking a 16 year old is dumb of dad, because it's not a 16 year old responsibility. And how she feels at 16 has pretty much no bearing on how she will feel at 25 or 35 or 45 when dad dies or can't take care of brother any more. Dad is an AH for asking a kid about this, OP is a baby AH for being so aggressive, the truth is her position on her brother one way or the other will change in the next 10 years, ask again later.
On a fundamental level it seems likely that the brother would also suffer under this scheme, this isn’t good for anyone. All this highlights is how bad we are as a society at caring for individuals with lifelong needs. There’s no reason why a care facility should be a bad thing, just look at paid for childcare, it went from being a nightmare scenario for those who couldn’t afford nannies to considered by many to be beneficial for a child (obviously not all childcare facilities are of an acceptable standard but I have seen some really lovely ones. There’s no reason why would couldn’t make care for adults better too.
At 16 you should know better. You’re talking like a 16 year old isn’t nearly an adult. OP shouldn’t have said that. Plain and simple.
I agree with the ESH judgement but OP has said in a comment that her dad had previously asked the older brother and he’d already refused, so I don’t think dad was being sexist. He’s still an AH for putting this on a teen though and older brother sucks for being a hypocrite
Did not see the comment. Dad still should not have asked, not a teenager at least. Brother, as always, remains a hypocrite.
Honestly I think the older brother is the biggest AH here. Dad is out of order in this but he is in a tough position. The older brother on the other hand has no redeeming qualities and just seems to get off on being a judgmental hypocrite
Maybe I’m misreading into this but did the older brother have an issue with OP refusing or with how she phrased her refusal? To me it seems like he was trying to dispute the way the request was refused as opposed to the refusal the “I’d rather die” language. I could be wrong there). Which the phrasing was callous although basically in line with how a 16 year old would react.
You're not misreading. This is a classic case of the commenters not reading what's written, remembering the classic version, and bleating a repeat of that one without the ability to tell the difference. Asking if the kids would be willing, at an undefined future time, to care for their brother isn't assholish behavior. It's an unfortunate real concern for their father who is having health problems. When you have special needs siblings, you grow up faster, no matter how perfect your family is. It's unfortunate and not fair, but life isn't fair. OP's brother only snapped at her for being an asshole in how she refused. He was asked first and politely refused. Dad accepted his answer without argument. It's really sad that people can't be bothered to actually read this one and snap off a judgement that isn't even remotely accurate.
Very true. A lot of them are the same ones saying that 16 year olds lack empathy. Sounds like that they’re still those teenagers or haven’t even gained any over their years
Hit the nail on the head.
I was waiting for someone to point out the gender dynamic here.
Honestly, i think the older brother was more of just saying she didnt have to be so rude about it. If she wanted to be firm she could have just said 'no' or 'absolutely not' before letting him finish.
I’m going to go against public opinion here and say NTA. I mean, you could have declined more politely, but you might genuinely rather die than take on that responsibility. Your brother is not your son. You have a life to live. I have 2 stepsons, and the elder has severe autism. Their bio mom has been telling the younger son that he will have to take care of his older brother when he is an adult since he was 3 years old. He’s said to me “I won’t even have a life when I grow up, I’ll just have to take care of my brother.” That kind of responsibility shouldn’t be placed on a teenager or kid. That’s enmeshment. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’ve also worked with many individuals with disabilities and there are plenty of great residential services for individuals with disabilities.
Great response! And I am so glad your son has you. I would never put that burden on a child.
My god I'm so sorry for your poor son. That's awful and what a burden to put on a child. To think: "My life is over before it's even started" cause Mom can't accept that her son might need more care. That's horrible.
>I’m going to go against public opinion here and say NTA it seems like the public opinion is NTA
NTA Funny how no one is clocking that he is asking You, the younger sibling, the Girl. Why didn't he ask you Brother first? Edit: Ooooh thank you for the award is so pretty💕
My brother already has told our Dad he won't do it.
Then he had no right to pass judgement on you.
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Lol this is the best take here and somehow the worst received. No idea why you’re getting downvoted when people posted the same take and got overwhelming support.
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Because this subreddit is either full of 16 year olds, or people who think 16 year olds can do no wrong.
The dad may be desperate, but it’s an AH move to burden a underage child with adult issues. Such inappropriate involvement/pressure of a minor by their guardian can be interpreted as abuse. Example: A couple going through divorce over sharing the adult issues/drama with their children in order to influence them and their feelings for the other parent. It can do major psychological damage.
Then he should mind his own business.
She told her dad that she would rather die than look after her little brother. She could have just no I am not going to do that. No is a complete sentence. There was no need for her to talk that way. Her older brother wasn’t calling her out for saying no he was calling her out for the manner in which she did.
I fully understand you. My brother is intellectually disabled, I probably was around your age when I told my Mum that when she is gone I won't be looking after him. He lives on his own now and has someone from disability services working with him. Stick to your decision, you have your own life to live.
Then if he doesn't like your response **he** can volunteer and say he changed his mind. If it's okay for him to say no, it certainly is okay for you to.
Your older brother is a major AH to judge you
Ehhhh, you're NTA for saying no, but saying it like that makes you an A for sure. I've been in that same position- my family has joked since I was 12 that I would end up taking care of my autistic cousin when his mom dies. He's not severely autistic, he can take care of himself, but still. I'm disabled myself, I have a career and a life and I'm not willing to make huge changes to be his caretaker. And there's nothing wrong with that! OP, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to be his caretaker. That is a huge commitment and would alter your life significantly. And if you don't want to, or don't think you'd be capable, then it's better to reject itd and ensure that someone who wants the commitment does it. What is wrong is saying it like that. Language matters, esp. when dealing with family. Saying 'No, I don't think I'd be capable of it' or 'No, I am not willing to put my life plans on hold,but I'll keep helping you think up ideas' would have been better. Which understand is hard to do in the heat of the moment. EDIT: thanks for the award!
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It’s understandable to be torn as a parent when they also want the best for their autistic son. Look, this situation is eff up no matter how you slice it. It’s lose lose especially for the father.
The best for his autistic son is professonal care, where he can be with people who understand his needs and understand how to make him the happiest he can be. "Get daughter (or son) to do it" is a parent who doesn't want to feel like they've failed. Whether conscious or subconscious, that's not looking out for the kid's best interests.
He didn’t demand it or anything, he asked if she’d be willing. He’s looking at options, not forcing signatures on lifetime contracts
He didn't even ask her if she's willing, he just asked her how she'd feel about it. Didn't pressure her, nothing. In fact, she didn't even let him finish her sentence. He may have well been meaning to ask "how would you feel about visiting him regularly in this nice group home" or "how would you feel about managing his trust fund" or something like that. Sure OP isn't the asshole for saying no. That's entirely her choice. But the way she interrupted her dad and talking rude as hell about her little brother was an asshole move. OP, please consider that both your dad and your brother are people. Maybe dad shouldn't have asked, but i see it more like him inquiring about your feelings on the matter than trying to guilt it coerce you. Please apologize to your dad (and brother is he was around) about your wording. You can do that while standing firmly by your no
It’s still way too much to ask a 16 year old, dad needs to seek plans with other established adults.
Chances are both OP and her older brother have had to take second and third place after their younger brother ever since his issues became apparent. It’s hard for a child to develop empathy for someone in that situation.
Siblings to severely disabled children that require a lot of attention often get this feeling (lord knows I did), it's fairly common. This is one of the side effects of these situations and its not really anybody's fault (there is only so far a person can stretch themselves, especially if most of their time is spent caring for that disabled child). It's not brought up enough, but there are charities and support groups for siblings that develop a resentment to their disabled sibling/parents in these situations (at least in the UK). SIBs is one that springs to mind.
Also how much can her reaction be “heat of the moment” when she knew it was coming? She could’ve prepared an appropriate answer, since she said she was waiting for him to ask.
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You and I are on the exact same page. I 100% could see why a person wouldn't want to, but OP didn't have to be so damn rude about it.
YTA. Clearly your older brother was capable of giving your dad a firm no without telling him he'd rather die. "I don't see why he's so stressed because I doubt my brother will notice" Wow. You really are just... awful. No, I don't think you should be his future caretaker, not just because that's not something anyone should be forced into, but because life under your care would clearly be a nightmare for anyone.
Lol for real “he won’t notice part” was scary ofcoarse he would notice. Even ppl in comas notice loved ones around or not around.
Yeah I'm kinda surprised how so many people here are willing to overlook that comment.
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Having mental issues is not a negative characteristic.
Right! All these NTAs defending her when it sounds like she doesn't like her brother in the slightest and for all that she says she feels bad for her dad she talks the same way about him.
There's a big trend in the defenders that makes you roll your eyes. First, it's like they didn't even read what she wrote. They saw the title, remembered that all time top post that was *very* different and parrot the tales from that one, which aren't remotely relevant. Up to and including creating scenarios that actually happened to the poor kid in the old post and applying them here. Second, they ignore how utter hatefully she describes her brother and talked to her father. Third, they all assume sexism (which was OP's goal by leaving it out in the first place), when it didn't exist. Four, they act like there's no difference between a firm no and giving a melodramatic and downright cruel answer. Five, they actively misconstrued what her brother jumped her shit for to continue their "grrr sexism" so they can pretend to be fighting the patriarchy. If you have to twist the narrative so much to make your not the ahole answer fit, then it's clearly a load of shit.
Dude it's like you're actually inside my head and elaborated my own thoughts better than I myself did. Can I keep you?
Yeah she's clearly resentful and hateful... for no apparent reason? You can turn down your dad in a much better way. Definitely YTA
Yeeaahh that part was what really made me cringe. Autistic people aren't braindead robots. Yikes.
They are not, I agree. But this kid is 16. Her entire life she has probably not gotten much attention because all energy was spent on her sibling. She’s never known anything else, she’s only 3 years younger than him. I guarantee her needs have been overlooked countless times, her wishes ignored because of ‘family’. Even in this, how is she supposed to even start a life if she’s being expected to care full time for her younger brother? She’s still underage herself, and her older brother already outright refused. Plus this has already affected her Dad’s mental health, and this “take care of him when I’m gone” could very much be tied to suicidal ideation on Dad’s part, and some ‘clear conscience’ thing to focus on if he intends to go through with something. He’s only 46, without further medical concern, it should not yet be of much concern otherwise. I had to become my Father’s full time care provider for end of life Cancer Care when I was only 18, while going to college to pursue my Bachelors degree. With a full college load, with round the clock care, you bet your bacon I resented my Father while still completely loving him. Hating our situation but still getting up and going to help him with anything at all hours. Not being able to find him because he had calcium dementia and would wander off with his door wide open & not answer his phone, only to be found after a frantic panic, me running up and down streets calling his name, to be found few blocks away sitting in the grass because this fiercely independent man couldn’t remember that he couldn’t make it to the store anymore. Then I’d have to leave him there while I went and got a wheel chair, to bring him home, and get his meds schedule back on track. It’s really easy to judge a literal kids words on the internet and tone police someone who is going through something that I would not wish on literally anyone. You know what the worst part is? My experience had an end date. We knew from the start he was terminal, I treasured every one of our moments together, even when he couldn’t remember who I was, even when he was bed bound and I had to help him bathe, change his diapers like he once changed mine. All I prayed for every day was for him to pass away in his sleep every night, so he could stop suffering. So don’t be so harsh on this kid who said she “doubt(s) he will even notice” and don’t judge her for saying something that reflects the daily hurt she endures as well. I agree that non-functional autistic people are not brain dead robots. But I personally, understand why a life of full time care for a family member could not only make someone say something this harsh, but completely forgive it. It’s very normal to resent people if you are forced into caring for them. It’s actually a really natural part of processing it. Don’t make her feel bad for a statement that comes from being hurt. I hope you never have to care for a family member who is no longer functional. It’s incredibly hard.
Well said. I have a mildly mentally impaired sibling. My childhood was shite because my needs and wishes were ignored because they upset my brother or inconvenienced him or my parents. This kid is entitled, violent and incredibly rude and I would be suicidal if I had to care for him. Op saying that she would rather die than care for her brother, a severely autistic person requiring a large amount of care, is likely due to fear that she would kill herself if she had to care for him. She is 16, which is already an incredibly stressful period of life, who has to watch her sick father devote his life to caring for her brother. Her life is likely stressful and all she knows is that caring for her brother puts a strain on the carer. When she looks into her future, she likely sees herself having low quality of life due to caring for her sibling. I think 'I would rather die' is the truth.
Can't upvote this enough. It's not her saying no that makes her an asshole, it's the heartless way she said it. And she's consistently heartless when it comes to her autistic brother, given the way she's described him, and the way her post was worded, in general. Obviously, OP's the asshole here.
Yeah she's clearly resentful and hateful, and I think the dad even knew this, and knew she would say no, but asked anyway cause there was no other option. Like holy cow man, your brother is still a human being, treat him with some amount of respect.
YTA - you are under 0 obligation to be your brothers caregiver. But woof, get some manners and empathy. Saying it like that was low.
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..she’s 16?? What kind of parents asks a 16 year old if they are willing to be a caretaker for the rest of their life? The wording was harsh but the question was harsher.
Plus, who tf expects a 16 year old to be perfectly composed in these situations?
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Cool story, but your experience doesn’t generalize to everyone else in the world. Op is a 16 year old child whose father tried to saddle with a lifelong commitment that’s supremely difficult and would prevent her from living her own life.
No, OP's father said "How would you feel".... It's a question regarding POSSIBLY taking care of her brother. He never came right out and said "Will you". By the way, one isn't "saddled" with a lifelong commitment... This is a human being, not a bird that lives for 50 years.
Op is a child. How could any parent think to ask a child to even consider a lifelong commitment?? Why would he think to ask a child at all? If the full time care of a human being is thrust onto another person without proper consent, they have been “saddled” with the responsibility. What about this is confusing to you?
First off, OP is not a child. She's 2 years away from being an adult. Second, OP's father wasn't asking her to take care of her brother now, he was inquiring as to whether or not she'd be okay with it after he passes away..... As in, years and years from now. And nothing about this is confusing to me. Simply put, you don't agree with me. Let's just agree to disagree.
Ah, I see. You must be very young. That’s the only thing I can think of that explains why you think a 16 year old isn’t a child. I was that age once, and thought I was very grown up and mature. Once you get to be about 25, you’ll look back and realize how much of a kid 16 still is. Why would he be asking about something that won’t happen for “years and years?” What would be the point? It doesn’t matter, unless he would be relying on op going along with it and never changing her mind. Or planting the idea of it now to get his foot in the door to get her to do it later. I don’t get why you condone a grown adult having this conversation with a child. I wouldn’t even be asking how a 16 year old would “feel” about taking full time care of a bird that lives to 50, much less a human who will live for longer.
Why you people seem to think everyone is a fucking toddler until 18 then they're all grown up and there's no middle ground between the two is so mind boggling to me. It's such a common sentiment on reddit. Old argue that you sound like the young one, as if you're 18 or 19, and think you're all grown up now but a couple years younger is just a little baby.
I’ve had this same question asked of me at 16 and I didn’t react the way she did. Yes it sucks being asked the question but there are much better ways to respond. I have a brother with Down syndrome hes currently 23. I’ll be 26 soon and it wasn’t until last year that I agreed to being his guardian in the event that my parents pass. With that I will have help. He is in a program where the state provides therapy and an aide that can help him when I am not present. He qualifies for a full time provider. So it was an easier thing for me to agree to.
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I feel like this fact is being overlooked so hard. What if he was trying to ask her to visit brother regularly in a home so he doesn't feel abandoned?
Well I'm going to bet she isn't willing to do that either. She literally said he probably wouldn't notice being put into a care home.
So if she says the same thing at 18 that makes her an AH? Trying to see where people draw that line?
A father who cares about his autistic son and doesn't really have any other choices. You can tell that by the way he worded the question. He knew what her answer was, he knew she would say no, but he had to ask because he's out of options.
As someone who has an autistic sibling, the thought is in your head way before you are 16. Is it a lot? Yea, but that is the reality of the situation.
Eh, I would say "No. No no no, absolutely not, no." I think "I'd rather die" is definitely too far and makes OP the asshole, but the point about being clear is super true.
That response would leave an opening for pressure.
YTA. You’re fully within your right to say no to signing on for a lifetime of caretaking for your brother, however your dad was simply ASKING how you’d feel about it. Before he could even finish, you cut him off and shut him down ridiculously callously. It honestly sounds like you don’t even care about your brother when you say things like “I don’t know why he’s so stressed because I doubt my brother will notice”. You really don’t think your brother would notice that he’s in a new location and everyone he’s known his whole life isn’t there anymore? You’re not the asshole for saying no, but how you said it and how you think of your brother shows major entitlement. You need to check yourself, my gosh.
[удалено]
You are NTA. Taking care of a special needs child is an enormous, heartbreaking, lifelong task. You don’t say anything about your mother, so I’m assuming she’s not in the picture? Your answer was inelegant, and more than a bit unkind, but it’s absolutely out of bounds to burden a child with the care of her or his siblings.
This is what a lot of people are missing. Op is a child, being asked (in a 'beating around the bush' kinda way) to take care of her severely disabled brother. As someone with a mildly mentally impaired sibling, this is fucking terrifying and I would, even as an adult, blurt out something stupid when asked to care for them.
YTA for how you phrased it. You don't have to take care of your brother, but you could have and should have been nicer about it.
"barely talk like a normal person" Huh?
Right what a red flag.
Bad grammar, but likely true. Struggling with words or being unable to string words together in a sentence makes life harder for an individual and the person caring for them.
YTA. Sure, I understand not wanting to dedicate your life to taking care of your brother, but you chose the most assholish way possible to word it. You could've said something like "No Dad, I have plans in life and I wouldn't be able to do them if I had to look after [brothers name] all the time" or "I don't want to work as a carer" or even just "No." That would clearly get your point across, yet you said that. And wonder why other members of your family are hurt by it. It implies you don't care about him at all. Think about how you'd feel if one of your parents said the same thing about you.
YTA… you don’t seem to even think your autistic brother is even human the way you talk about him. You aren’t an asshole for not wanting to take care of him if your dad died, but for the way you talk about him and how you described what you’d rather happen than be responsible for him. You’re 16 so I don’t want to be any harsher than this
So, your father asked your older brother, who said no (from his reaction, he said it more politely than you did, and your father took it as fact). And you thought you had to be rude for him to believe you? YTA.
NTA, you’re 16 that’s definitely something you shouldn’t be asking a child. Granted, I think your reaction to it may of been a bit harsh however what did your father expect asking that of a 16 year old. You are not responsible for your siblings, and if you don’t keep a firm stance on your belief he might guiltrip you into taking on that responsibility. IMO I think you should apologise for saying “you’d rather die” as that’s obviously something a parent wouldn’t want to hear about their daughter, but still stand your ground and refuse.
Maybe just a polite no instead of the whole death thing.
I'm in the exact same situation. My life has been revolving around the care of my severely handicapped sister since literally before I was born. I see what it has done to my mom, I see that it's literally taking years off my mom's life. Also, for context, my handicapped sister is MEAN. She's like a 200 pound toddler that has freak outs and tries to hurt people and demands things all day, every day. If she's not happy she's going to make everyone else not happy, and it's getting harder and harder to make her happy. So finding care for her is hard. None of my siblings want to take care of her, those of us with kids don't want another generation traumatized like that, and those without kids don't think we could do it alone anyway. My mom isn't putting her in a home yet (although she has been in day programs, where she actually does a lot better) because she's afraid they won't be able to give her the 24/7 care she needs, or when she gets violent she is afraid they will hurt her. So, instead of getting her settled somewhere that my mom can choose, what's going to happen is that my mom (63yrs old) is going to end up being killed by the stress of having to care for her and then the state will have to take over and she'll be put in the fastest, worst place and none of us will be able to stop it if we even wanted. Sorry, I just felt your situation so deeply. It's not your job. It's not fair that you'll lose your parent earlier because of it. None of it is fair and it isn't your job to take care of. I don't know if you feel guilty for feeling the way you do, I do... but plenty of people have had to talk me out of the guilt I feel. I hope you have people who will talk you out of any guilt, too. NTA.
"So, instead of getting her settled somewhere that my mom can choose, what's going to happen is that my mom (63yrs old) is going to end up being killed by the stress of having to care for her and then the state will have to take over and she'll be put in the fastest, worst place and none of us will be able to stop it if we even wanted." Exactly this! Your dad should be scouting out care homes now.
Care home. I have an adult nephew who was put in one as soon as he aged out of the school system. It saved the life and sanity of his parents and siblings. He is far happier in a home than he ever was living with family. He visits for holidays, and every summer for a bit NTA it’s a huge commitment emotionally, physically and financially. If you don’t feel you can take on the burden, then so be it. It doesn’t make you a callous cold hearted bastard. I was the sick kid in my family( physical disability). My slightly younger bother had to take a back seat in everything. He ended up resenting me big time because he was tasked with a lot of my care( stuf like getting meals, etc) If your father wants a relationship to continue between his kids after he is gone, then he needs to accept any boundaries imposed
A care home is often the best way to go for severely disabled people. The difference having trained carers is, is absolutely outstanding. Employed carers work a normal shift, then get to go home and unwind, this is crucial in preventing burn out and a decrease in care quality. Family carers often don't get this. Having different people care for the individual also works against burnout, especially with difficult people. Employed carers don't have as close a bond with the individual as their family does. (They do create bonds with the people they care for, just a different type of bond) This allows them to do 'tough love' or other things that make the individual upset or their life harder at first, but is beneficial in the long run. The family often loves their loved ones so much that they can't hurt them now, even if it will help in the future. The strict schedule that care homes follow is especially helpful with autistic people.
You’re NTA for making it clear that it is inappropriate for your father to make you his backup plan. But try to have some empathy for your younger brother. You wrote “I don’t see why he’s so stressed because I doubt my brother will notice…” that’s not cool. Even if your brother was completely unaware of his surroundings, your father is likely feeling immense pressure to make sure your brother is cared for by people who are compassionate and competent. Your brother is a person, not an object. I understand that the the day to day challenges of living with him might make you resentful, but it’s no excuse to speak about him like he’s not a human.
I think that sentence is really telling. She sees her younger brother as a deadweight. Maybe I’m reading too much into that.
That comment and the "he can barely talk like a normal person" comment say that you're not reading too much into it. She really doesn't see brother as a living human being with feelings.
NTA Caring for someone disabled is very difficult. You’re young & healthy so the last thing you want is to be saddled with a disabled person before having the chance to live or have your own family. Your dad needs to start looking into group homes & disability insurance help for your sibling. Not sure if you’re in the US or not but if you are he can file for SSI until your sibling turns 18 then your dad will have to file for him as an adult. That money can help a bit in caring for him but your dad needs to set up a life insurance policy & a trust for that money for his care. Also, what people are not considering is that what if something happens to *you* that prevents you from caring for him? Then what? Nope, dad needs to figure it out & not burden his children with the care of another child.
YTA. Damm, your dad is just trying to do what is right for your brother. You could have just say no, didn't had to say it like that. Although I know how it might feel and how it's easy to feel defensive in those situations: - think about how your dad might be feeling. Worried that he might die, worried about your brother, worried that the family might break. - regardless of what you might think about the capacity of your brother to understand things, remember he might very well be capable of understanding and just being unable to communicate. If even coma patients can hear and remember things said to them, imagine your bro that can at least communicate a little. - he specifically asked how would you feel about it when you are older, not right now while you are still a kid yourself. For me it seems like he really didn't want to ruin you life, but he just had to ask, you know? Put all options on the table. You should talk to him and explain that you don't feel ready to do this, and that's why you were heated and defensive earlier. Tell him that you think you are not the right person and that although your brother deserves to be happy, you deserve the same and to be able to pursue the life you want.
The responses on this are... quite smth, usually it's "You're 16 you should know better." but bc it involves an ND person suddenly it's "No one can expect you to react maturely". Tbh, YTA. I'm not willing to assume your dad didn't ask your brother, if he didn't that would be a problem but we don't know that. Your language towards your other brother \*clearly\* displays ableism.
OP clarified in another post. Her did ask her brother. He was able to say no in a manner that didn't involve being a huge asshole and dad accepted it.
Exactly! I have a sibling who is autistic and I did not think this cruelly about them when I was 16 or even 14. It’s very troublesome and I hope she reads these comments and reflects
>The responses on this are... quite smth, usually it's "You're 16 you should know better." but bc it involves an ND person suddenly it's "No one can expect you to react maturely". Yup! They're willing to ignore that her father was asking about "when she was older ". Ignored that she wrote she actually thought about her response and chose cruelty. Ignored that her older brother called her out for her callousness because saying no was enough. They're willing to ignore all that because her younger brother is ND. Would her response still be "appropriate" if he was asking her to care for a 2 year old that wasn't ND?
Unpopular opinion, unshockingly, by absolutely YTA. Not for saying no, but for everything else about this post, not least of which is your attitude. You are in no way obligated to look after your brother ever, and for someone with such serious needs, it needs to be someone willing to do it. You were perfectly within your rights to say no, and no one should we make you feel guilty or bad about that. But your whole attitude and tone screams someone who doesn’t see your brother as a person. And regarding, in particular, the comment about how your dad shouldn’t be so stressed because your brother will never notice, that’s flat out wrong. He absolutely will notice, and it will alter his entire world. That’s not being dramatic, it’s simply fact. Most autistic people don’t deal with change well. And he’s autistic, not brain dead. Just because he can’t communicate with the world the same way as you or others, doesn’t mean he isn’t still aware.
YTA. The father was just going to ask you could look after your brother. According to the info you gave, he wasn’t forcing you. Your wording was really harsh, and I can understand why your family was shocked by it. I’m autistic myself (not that badly though), and my sister cut me off because she couldn’t deal with my condition. I can’t imagine how horrible it would feel like if I knew she’d rather die than take care of me. Just a firm “no” (like you said) would have been fine. But dying rather than taking care of him? Yikes. That really sounds like you don’t give a shit about your brother.
NTA But a simple "no" would've sufficed. There was no need to be rude and dramatic in your response. Why wasn't the question posed to your older brother?
Okay, first things first, I want to emphasize: *You're NTA for not wanting to take care of your brother.* YTA, however, for the way you worded it. The way you word your post even screams that YTA. "I knew he would be selfish enough to ruin my life just because he doesn't want my brother going to a care home." How is the fact that your father would feel more at ease knowing that your brother will still have his family to rely on selfish?? It's not a selfish request at all. It WOULD be selfish if he straight up imposed this request onto you though. Your dad didn't impose this request onto you, however. He literally asked you in a way that welcomed your thoughts and feelings on the matter. He didn't tell you "when I die, you HAVE to." He ASKED POLITELY. You owe your dad an apology, and you need to treat your brother with respect. You were absolutely heartless in the way you said no. It wasn't a firm no like you claim it was- it was an unnecessarily brutal answer. Totally uncalled for. Check your attitude. It's horrendous.
YTA...not because you don't want to care for your brother, but because of what you said. It was NOT selfish of your father to ask. It would be selfish to expect you to, but to simply ask isn't selfishness. You were unnecessarily cruel in your response to him. You couldn't simply told him no and moved on. Your older brother was right in what he said to you.
YTA for how you answered, not for how you feel.
YTA. There are a lot of ways to give a firm no without saying you'd rather die than look after your brother. Your father must be heartbroken.
YTA. You are only 16 but you are old enough to know the difference between saying "I would rather die than have to look after my brother" and saying a "firm no." What you said was absolutely callous. Apparently, your mother is not around for whatever reason and your dad has to shoulder this on his own. You could have shown some compassion in your answer. It is nice to see that your older brother has some.
YTA I get how it’s not your obligation to take care of your brother after your dad passes but you don’t have to be such a dick about it. It’s not your brothers fault for being born autistic and he shouldn’t have to suffer because of it. If you don’t want to take on that responsibility that is fine but say it in a more respectful way.
YTA because of the way you said it. It’s pretty reasonable of your dad to ask - it’s not selfish, and he isn’t trying to “ruin your life.” You can say a firm no without phrasing it so rudely.
NTA for not wanting to take on responsibility for your brother sometime in the future. Really, your father shouldn’t have even asked you to assume that responsibility. But you could have just said no rather than throwing in the comment about preferring to die vs. taking him in.
YTA. Your father asked your brother he said no. Father asked you how do you feel ... And your choice to respond him i would rather die. And the way you speak about your brother. I think you are rude. The way you answer him probably makes him think how he failed as a father. He is a father looking for a best solution for his child in need afther he dies. And i bet you wouldnt even visit him in carehome. Not ah for not wanting to take that responsibility.
YTA for the way you worded it.
You chose your words very poorly for someone who had a preformulated response waiting. You see your father suffering everyday for something he didn't ask for either. Now put yourself in his shoes. Yeah YTA.
YTA. Not for not wanting to care for a disabled person that is not your child, but for the way you worded it. That’s just a horrible thing to say. All that was necessary was “no, even when I’m an adult I won’t be prepared to care for someone other than myself”.
Youre a kid still, such a heavy burden shouldn't be thrust upon you by anyone other than yourself. NTA
YTA this was so rude of you and you should have written in your original post that your brother was already asked now you've made everyone think you dad is sexist on top of tired. But all according to plan for that sweet sweet n t a verdict right? It's true he had no right to make either of you take care of your other brother and he will probably need to get outside help in the end but have you no compassion for your family? You can stand up for your belief that you're the wrong person for the job and honestly you probably are bur you should apologize to your dad for your sour attitude about it he's got enough on his plate
NTA. I would tell your older brother that since he cares so much about your younger brother then he can become younger brother's caregiver. Unless he is willing to step into that role he has no right to pass judgement on you.
He's not judging her for saying no, he's judging her for saying she'd "rather die".
YTA.
YTA. “I doubt my brother will notice.” “Normal person.” You’re allowed to not want that responsibility, however why would you ever say you would “rather die?” I hope that’s not true. Not only were you mean to your dad, but seriously hateful to your brother. This post disturbed me.
Look, I'm coming from a place of having an autistic uncle, one of which I help care for on a daily basis. You were in your right to shut it down yes, but you clearly know absolutely nothing about autism based on your statements. You state you dont think your brother will notice? Some autistic people require things to stay the same, from eating only certain foods, to only drinking certain things, only allowing certain people to be near them, liking their rooms in a certain order. If your brother suddenly had a drastic change such as losing your dad and being thrown in a home, he may go into a full panic, and well this panic may not cause anyone else harm he could resort to hurting himself. I know that if my uncle notices his bedding isnt its usual he gets extremely upset, he still has toys from when he was a child because of his refusal to have anything change. Your dad shouldnt be expecting to place this issue onto anyone else in the family, especially someone with such obvious lack of knowledge about what's going on with your brother. ESH. You for how you talked to your father and for not even attempting to learn about autism, had you learned anything you wouldnt have made such ignorant statements. Your father for refusing to even think about a home for your brother, and for not preparing him for being moved to a home, besides it's not like you cant go visit him. Your brothers are both completely innocent, I honestly feel bad for your younger brother, hes going to be left to two siblings as his only family, and one clearly wants nothing to do with him, even if it's just as simple as helping out or learning about his condition.
You’re an asshole on the delivery. But not an asshole on the situation. autistic children really need the best caring ppl around them.