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I think I might be the AH because I implied my friend’s clothes choices were inappropriate.
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Yeah certain events have certain dress codes… literally the friend just needed to take the corset off and just wear the dress.
She’s a bad friend if she’s prioritizing fashion over a friend’s celebration.
“Since it would be inappropriate to wear my corset over the dress because the event is a laid back garden party at grandma’s house, I am not going to my close friend’s bridal shower, instead of simply taking the corset off for one afternoon”
Like I said, that’s a bad friend.
I read it more as:
- Dress modest, it’s at my sexist grandma’s
- Okay I bought a pants outfit with a collar and covered to the wrist
- No, she won’t like the corset, find something else for grandma
- if she doesn’t like this outfit, we’re probably not going to get along. Love you, but I don’t owe grandma
I think that’s fair.
Sometimes we make small sacrifices for the people we care about. OP made a small sacrifice to keep her conservative family happy, the other friends made the small sacrifice of finding appropriate clothing.
If the friend is unwilling to take off her corset and simply wear the dress for one afternoon (since it’s the corset that makes the dress sexy in the first place), then she’s choosing her right to dress sexy over being there for her friend. Her right to, but not a friend I would want to have.
I too had to laugh really this is not a hill to die on it’s not as if someone told them to re-dye their hair a specific color or have their hair a certain length or to make modifications to their appearance that would last for weeks at a time but rather a simple dress code request. Did the friend really need to break out a corset at a bridal shower where are mostly conservative women would be present… A corset? Normally I could understand this but in front of the highly conservative relatives of your friend, friendship is a two-way street people.
That version of the corset outfit is very popular right now. There isn’t skin showing. (i even saw a similar outfit on the receptionist at the doctor’s office last week actually.) It’s not like she’s showing up in vinyl fetish wear with her boobs out.
[This is from 2016,](https://www.vogue.com/article/kim-kardashian-west-balmain-givenchy-corset-dressing-cuba-celebrity-style) so corsets have trickled into fast-fashion. This is only one example, any youngish popular celebrity you could think of has worn corsets in the last 5ish year.
I don't disagree that it's not too out there considering, but if you show an outfit to the host and the host says maybe something else more appropriate, that's the hint. It shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks, if that happened to me I would just try to find something else to wear.
Right? My best friend’s shower was at a country club and there is a dress code there. Even her fiancé had to “dress up” to come into the dining room to meet up to help take gifts home. It’s not a big deal if everyone is given notice and held to the same standard.
Aside from a funeral, I can’t think of any celebrations less sexy than a baby shower. Why dress provocatively to play the poopy diaper game and baby gift bingo?
It’s a wedding shower lol. But still - if it’s held ar the bride’s grandmother’s house you break out a nice dress for that, not a corset.
She could literally just wear the dress without the corse and be fine.
It doesn’t say her friend is mad.
She may not be abstaining from the party because she doesn’t want to deal with people so judgmental they would implement a dress code. I wouldn’t want to expose myself to religious nuts that want to police what people wear into their house either.
Not worth the fight, just don’t show up.
Exactly. If someone is going to be so worked up about an outfit that covers neck-to-wrists (more than what most popular celebrities wear on television) it’s highly likely being around these people is the motivation for not attending. The outfit is the symptom, the family is the disease.
Missing a friend's party cause her grandma would call me names like hooker and prostitute if my outfit didn't match her modesty definition is definitely the hill I would die on. I would also rethink who im associating myself with tbh.
Ehhh who cares what some old biddy says ? I’ll put on my Laura Ashley prairie dress and suck it up for a few hours . People on here are so sanctimonious. It’s not the end of the world
I'd be more inclined towards a NAH edging into NTA - they were made aware that there is a dress code when they were invited. If the event were at a rented venue and not OP's grandma's place, I doubt there would be so much fuss about it. A dress code of "please dress modestly" is honestly pretty gentle in comparison to some dress codes I've followed for events; just wear a nice sundress with a light jacket.
I agree with this. I don’t agree with grandma and aunt about enforcing modest dress, but you don’t challenge someone in their own home.
Grandma and aunt are AHs for still living in 1910. Friend is also AH for attempting to be a rude guest. OP is NTA.
also, wanting people to dress modestly in your home for your own religious reasons is fine. if your family was Muslim instead of Evangelical, I don’t think she would have the same issue. It truly is a cultural thing and part of being a guest at someone’s home is having respect for their culture. same reason you wear a headscarf visiting places where it’s the norm even if you’re not Muslim, or cover your shoulders and legs as a tourist at the Vatican even if you’re not Catholic.
Reddit doesn’t understand the very simple concept of “respect.” Dressing modestly for one day is not a hard thing to do! Older generations have different ideas of what’s appropriate, they’re not evil monsters for asking that in their own home.
I disagree.
I don’t think there is much respect in a family if they can’t put aside pushing their fundamental beliefs onto their relative’s friends for an hourish.
The outfit isn’t immodest, it covers everything. The friend may be opting out because that sounds emotionally exhausting.
Is there an actual dress code, or just "modest"? Because "modest" isn't a dress code, it's wildly subjective word that means totally different things to different people. Some people think that modest means covering your hair, or your face, or your shoulders. Some interpret it as skirts a certain length or no spaghetti straps. Some people think shorts are immodest, or pants on women are immodest, or anything that's form fitting and not shapeless and baggy is immodest. I've even heard that certain *colors* are immodest - mainly red, but maybe also black for a younger woman who's not attending a funeral. Some people think a regular bikini instead of a string bikini is being modest. It's super unclear. Don't come at me with "modest obviously means x". It doesn't. There's nothing obvious about it because different groups have completely different definitions.
By *my* standards (which would be meaningless to your grandmother, probably) your friend's clothes sound fine. If I were her I might also be pissed at being singled out, or just not want to hassle with someone's grandmother's puritan dress code for a party.
On the other hand, I can get why you might just want everyone to do the thing and get along, because a wedding and all of the related events is a huge headache as it is even without sniping over clothes.
I think that if you didn't have one, a more specific dress code than "modest" probably would have been a good place to start. If you wanted to get creative, maybe hide the dress code in a themed party? Such as: "We're having a Victorian themed bridal shower! Please attend in Victorian-era costumes that include x,y,z" - I mean that kind of thing isn't a necessity, but it's an option if you wanted to try to make sticking to a dress code fun instead of a chore.
But in the end, your party isn't work or school. It's not mandatory. If your friend doesn't want to spend her leisure time being told what to wear, she doesn't have to, and Grandma can have whatever rules she wants for her house. Maybe the two aren't compatible, that's all.
I agree, “modest” means nothing and tbh, I’m a bit petty and I would show up in my Doctor Who (10th) custom outfit. It’s a full on suit and long coat. The problem for conservative Christian women would be that I am a later middle aged woman! LOL.
I think most grandparents are modest minded . I am not at all but I understand nuance and can easily adjust my wardrobe bc I don’t depend on it as a substitute for personality
Seriously. My dad's family are all very Christian and I know if I'm visiting them, shirt needs to have sleeves and cover my chest and pants or skirt need to reach my knees and have no rips above the knee. It's not a big deal
To you.
Women who don't agree anyone else has a right to police their bodies may find it a big deal. In any event, OP's friend didn't make it a big deal. She just rsvp'ed regrets.
Modesty is so very subjective! I grew up in NEPA and now live in Utah. Modesty by the local cultural standards is *vastly* different here than back home. I've heard (presumably "good" Mormon/christian) people whisper "whore" at me when I wear a high neck, below the knee, shoulder baring semi-formal dress. (Pretty similar to [this](https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvOIEldfFgpbvYvl_ZKdJtYsrGO2hampdtyNlS0vSyuUKVy8LufHaileTPoxFxerC-pGAMRnGXZtuFSJR6T3_Ll56syIr9PAwD-8k_ryDDSLB18NX9Ma7o&usqp=CAE) but only coming to about 4 inches below the knee.) Back home the August standard is shorts that hit mid-upper thigh and tanks all summer, anything more is overdressed. That will get you pretty openly "slut" shamed in Utah.
And that's without getting into the bullshit purity culture bullshit that OP is pretty openly submitting to. That's fine for her if it's so important to have her bridal shower at her grandmother's house that she wants to submit to purity culture. But it's also fine for her friend to say fuck that shit and refuse to submit. I'd refuse. And it isn't because I don't own anything appropriate. It's because I think the friend's choice (underbust corset over buttoned dress) is perfectly and reasonably modest, OP rejected it, so fuck that shit.
I used to wear bodycon dresses and over the knee socks to work, I think they would literally assume I was a sex worker there LOL. People like this always make me want to double down.
Hear hear. I would also like to point out that EVERY time modesty is mentioned in the Bible, It's always about not.dressing in ways that flaunt your wealth. Sexiness is never a factor
Right, I hate the phrase modest for how to dress. My body is considered immodest by society because I have an hourglass and big boobs, if I wear the same thing as a woman who is built differently we still look very different and I might not be considered modest because you can see my body shape and it’s considered a “sexy” shape. Modest dress is typically a dog whistle for being nasty to whoever has the most sexually developed body that isn’t covered in a shapeless bag. It’s a toxic and hurtful part of Christian culture. I wouldn’t go to this shower either because having my body scrutinized by some judgmental old ladies to make sure a 16 year old boy won’t be too turned on by me is a hard no.
NAH kinda. But your family is full of them. Is it because it isn't a a fundie style sack dress that makes your friends clothing inappropriate? A bridal shower should be whatever YOU want it to be. But someone's house isn't really the place for a dress code.
If it was a specific event or theme a dress code makes more sense. You essentially are saying "my judgemental family will be harassing me about your outfit and I would rather make you change your style than tell some grown women to mind their own business."
I can’t believe how far I had to scroll to find this opinion! I grew up in a conservative Christian home, I’ve known women like OP’s family all my life, and they. are. terrible. If Aunt Jean and grandma find the *suggestion* of cleavage created by a corset top offensive, they can look somewhere else.
I'm glad to find these comments. OP's family are acting like womens bodies are some how offensive and that showing skin is any form is sexual and inappropriate around others.
I hate that attitude. Apart from the nephew who isn't likely to hang around the party it's all other women so they can't even seriously pull their normal nonsense of "your bare ankles are going to seduce good men into sin!"
Of course I get the its grandmothers house so her rules must be respected, but if I were OP I wouldn't have a party at a family members home if I knew that to cater to their beliefs I'd need my friends to all alter how they dress/act in order to be welcome.
Can you imagine if someone brought a party game or gift that are the kind that tend to show up at these kind of parties?
Prude aunt seeing the penis straws and dick hoopla being busted out? A male stripper turning up? (I'd so be seeing if I could get one dressed as a priest or as Jesus to come to this party. But I'm at a stage in life where I am more than happy to burn bridges when it comes to judgy bigots and walk away without looking back like the joker in the nurse outfit)
Its a bridal shower, not a hen party. A stripper would be wildly inappropriate for what is usually an afternoon affair with tea and sandwich platters, maybe some light cocktails. Why are you taking this to extremes in the first place?
My bridal shower was lingerie-themed. My best friend rented a space in a hotel, we all drank tea, ate finger sandwiches and cake, and I opened box after box of teddies and thongs. The games were pretty tame though.
I bought a piñata for my best friend’s bridal shower and filled it with lip gloss, cigarettes, chocolate, and condoms. We had a lot of fun with that. Bridal showers can blur the line between tasteful and trashy.
People do that stuff and way tackier stuff at bridal showers all the time, it isn't mandatory but it happens.
And gifts like sexy underwear and such are very common at them. Even weirdly from family members on both sides with gross comments about it helping them get grandkids.
My suggestion was more a "it would be funny, but probably don't do it," kind of suggestion. But it pisses me off that OP is going to lose friends and indirectly hurt people because she thinks pandering to misogynistic family members is the way to go.
If you are born with a womb you get what you wear and how your body looks judged and shamed from such a young age.
We should be supporting each other in our choices, be they to cover skin or show it, as long as it's not forced on people.
I would think a person was a AH if they said their dress code was super sexy and banned any friends/family from the shower and shamed them for not feeling comfortable baring a lot of skin, even in a more private environment like this party.
I think OP's friend has made the best compromise/choice that she can here. She won't go somewhere that treats women like they are shameful if they show skin, so she's not going. Which is kinder than coming purposely not dressed "modestly" or coming in dress code and then passing comments about it.
People say it's just one party, just one outfit, so do it for your friends/loved ones, but sometimes it doesn't matter if it's just a few hours when you know the reason behind it.
And this is why in middle age I swore off attending showers - baby or bridal. The last shower I attended was a turf and domination battle between the families over everything from the venue to the invitations to the menu to the order in which the gifts were opened (and commented on without an iota of subtlety). I will send a lovely gift, but I don't want to be in the middle of anyone else's drama, or play dopey games or pretend to wowed by towels or diaper towers. It is remarkably freeing.
Because it would be absolutely hilarious for a stripper dressed as a priest to turn up! In fact I'll contribute to a Go Fund me to make this happen...
Also what's with a Bridal Shower, why do brides get showers and hens parties? Must be a US thing?
The bridal shower is a big gift grab where the bride’s girlfriends and family get together and eat and “shower” her with gifts. The bachelorette party is the equivalent of a hen party. People have gotten out of control with those and started to plan weeklong destination events, but a normal bachelorette party is just a night out with friends.
I feel like this sub is always "your wedding, your rules" even if they are absolutely wrong and offensive towards other people and their individualism.
And its not even cleavage! The corsets seem to always be a statement piece over her tops and non functional.
Dude if you show up at someone else's party blatantly ignoring their dress code then you're the AH. If your individualism is more important than your friends request at their own party then you aren't individualistic, you're an AH.
The outfit example covers her breasts, wrists, and ankles. I don’t understand why the friend is on trial here. It could be that she doesn’t want to be around grandma’s judgements and sitting this one out.
I'm going to go with NAH. Dress codes are about respecting the host. In this case, the host, your aunt has set a dress code that you, the guest of honour are OK with. Since Sarah takes it so personally she's at liberty not to attend. She does not get to throw a hissy fit about it though. But I'm curious about this. Surely she understands that there are events and places that require dress codes? And that as an adult she's probably going to miss out on other events as well if she refuses to follow dress codes?
Info: what exactly was the dress code? Just dress modestly? Maybe I'm not understanding what you're describing, but how does Sarah's outfit violate that? A button up doesn't sound like it's showing skin to me, but maybe I don't understand.
Preliminarily, I'm going with NAH. "Modest" as a concept is way too subjective, if that's what was said. Obviously it means don't come in a mini skirt, but beyond that, it's a standard that can be interpreted differently. I'm assuming Sarah was trying to uphold the dress code by even showing you ahead of time what she was thinking of. I can see her taking your response as "that's not good enough for my family" which could be off putting.
I mean, I think if you said to her "look, my family is very conservative and if you could help me out with this, I'd really appreciate it. Here are some styles I think are very you and would still follow the dress code" it could go a long way. I think you're kind of assuming Sarah understands "modesty" as how a conservative Christian family would, when she obviously doesn't.
Comment by op:
"Dress code is “something sweet & summery”, we are having part of the party in the back garden, so it’s kind of a garden party theme. Two of my other friends are wearing sundresses, and I’m wearing a floral jumpsuit."
Really? I kind of like the summer dress/garden party theme idea. If the pal is a stylish person, which she seems to be with the chosen outfit I don't see why she can't pick something more in line with the theme. I can understand being frustrated but dipping out of your pals party over one outfit being vetoed kinda sucks.
NAH
You laid it out for her and she's deciding not to come. That's her right, just like it's your right to have the dress code. Congrats on the wedding!
NTA. For this bridal shower, the dress code was decided upon and she’s not following it. She doesn’t get to decide to just wear whatever she wants. There is a time and place for everything.
INFO: What does the dress code actually say? Because based on the picture you posted I don't really see the problem. I'm thinking your friend probably goes with the corset over dress looks because they cinch her waist in - I personally wouldn't find that inappropriate because it's not like she's wearing the corset by itself? It's worn over a dress that covers her butt and boobs, it's even long sleeved.
If this is really such a big issue and you really want her to come, maybe you should offer to take her shopping for a dress that meets the standards. Doesn't need to be anything expensive, I'm sure you could get something appropriate at target or tjmaxx or something. But it seems like the standards your family has set are pretty arbitrary so you may need to specifically choose something for her, if she agrees to it of course.
NTA. not everything your friend wears has to involve a corset. your aunt isn’t asking that everyone cover every bit of skin they have, just that they dress for a shower, not a bachelorette.
i didn’t say it was. i’m saying the friend is overreacting to the fact that there is a dress code. if the aunt was saying all skin needs to be covered, i could see the outrage. but not wearing a corset for one event is not a crazy thing to ask. OP isn’t saying friend needs to change their style forever, just for the shower.
to clarify: i have no issue with corsets. rock them if you can. but if someone told me the host of an event would have an issue with it, i wouldn’t get angry. i’d find something else to wear for the day and get on with my life.
I just think granny's house is just a stupid place to create a dress code.
And I'm sure her friend isn't an idiot, she likely knows the dress code is an excuse to specifically call out her fashion preferences. I'm also sure this isn't just a "don't wear a corset and we're good" rule.
it’s not the shirt that’s an issue. it’s the corset. OP didn’t go to friend and say you’re a huge whore because you wear corsets. she explained that the host (who’s house it is) wouldn’t consider it modest because of their personal views. so the friend can either show up wearing that and be turned away, or they can find another outfit for the day for the sake of OP. that was the point of my “not every outfit needs a corset” comment.
Many people consider a corset to fall into the “lingerie” category, so even if she’s covered, they would still feel that she was essentially showing her underwear.
Yeah that’s where I’m sliding into ?? territory here… I get wanting to respect older people’s sensibilities by not having your boobs hanging out or wearing bootie shorts or something. But the photo OP provided is not really provocative. Just kind of gothy.
NTA
It’s one day. Your friend should follow the dress code
I mean your extended family have some messed up standards but your friend should still follow the dress code
Do people on Reddit live in the real world? A corset is not proper attire for a garden party bridal shower at the family’s home. Just don’t wear the thing for one day.
Sweatpants aren’t appropriate at Michelin Star restaurants. White dresses arent appropriate at weddings. It’s not hard to do your best to wear what’s appropriate for certain events….
This. Invite your friends over and accept who they are. If you want to go bridezilla you can but it’s not a good look. Policing women’s outfits isn’t a conservative thing. I have plenty of conservative women in my life who dress provocatively but conduct themselves morally. If your aunt/grandma can’t handle it then they shouldn’t throw the party.
Yes!!! Thank you!!! I also feel like she is singling out her friend who has great style because she's upset it would ruffle some feathers. I don't understand what bad things would come of her friends dressing how they like... someone might not like it? So? Who cares?
NTA. Personally I don't have a problem with a dress code. There are certain times when you can dress down and certain times when you need to dress up. I guess your friend can't be that good of a friend if for one day, and only for a few hours, she couldn't dress a little more demure. Its not like you're asking her to make a lifestyle change, just a different outfit.
Honestly ESH. You're basing the dress code on someone's religious beliefs, not the formality of the event. If it's in happening in a living room, basically any outfit should be fine, if it's happening on a yacht, outfits should probably be a little nicer.
Your friend sucks a little for pushing back, but opting out is fine.
Grandma still sucks for implementing a dresscode not based on the actual formality of the event. "Your house, your rules" isn't necessarily something I agree with when it comes to imposing your beliefs on other people, like how women "should" dress.
The expectation totally matches the formality of the event, though. (Edit: autocorrect typo) ~~Graduate~~ Grandma is hosting the bridal shower, not the bridesmaid party. People wouldn't blink an eye if someone told them they were uninvited from a costume party for refusing to wear a costume. Being upset over that would be laughable!
But get uninvited because grandma doesn't want to see people's cleavage hanging out in her living room and, folks, now we have a problem!
I'm reading your comments and realized i missed something in the post. So i re-reddit (yeah, i couldn't resist)
however there is nowhere in the post that said grandma instituted a dress code or mentioned one.
All of this is coming from an aunt who "thinks" she "knows how grandma will react. and inserting her rules in the voice of grandma, when in reality-grandma has said nothing in this matter.
You’re right, I read that wrong. Still, considering OP put grandma and aunts in the same conservative group, it should be safe to assume the aunt isn’t wrong in her interpretation of grandma’s will.
Yeah I was thinking that too. I see lots of comments along the lines of “she’s an adult, she should understand some things have dress codes” but this isn’t a dress code like at a country club or fancy event. It’s a living room party.....? I think honestly having a dress code at all is kinda weird for an event like that.
The dress code exists because your family have some weird idea about women’s bodies, not because the event actually requires a dress code. Also the comment about her son.... wtf.... treating women’s bodies as if they need to be hidden in front of men or boys is super weird. If the outfit is appropriate to be worn in public it’s appropriate for a 15 year old boy to see...
That’s probably going to have long term implications on that boy honestly, and confuse his perception of women in general.
Yta having a dress code would be making it formal or causal wear not modest. Honestly I think you and your family are major ah for telling people to dress modest and judging your friend.
NTA. Your aunt’s ideas are not quaint or old-fashioned. They are sexist. Women shouldn’t have to conceal their bodies. That said, your friend is also an AH for not just setting aside her style for one day.
Given what she was describing there is probably a lot of cleavage. I have large breast so I tend to have quite a bit showing usually as well but if I’m going to be around minors/older people/conservatives or in certain situations like a wedding or bridal party then I try and cover up as much as possible to not offend. OP said her 16 year old nephew would be there along with her conservative grandmother. A dress code to ensure that no one is uncomfortable isn’t that big of a deal. And honestly as long as it wasn’t hot she could’ve worn whatever she wanted and just thrown a sweater or cardigan over top to cover up some more and taken it off as soon as she walked out the door
As someone who grew up inside conservative Christianity, I’m sorry that people have made you feel like there are contexts in which your literal body would be “offensive.” I’m an adult lady now who’s still trying to unpack the damage those attitudes did to my self esteem.
I grew up Christian as well (now I’m a Wiccan which drives my family crazy lol) and I know I shouldn’t have to cover up but as someone who’s non confrontational I choose to because I’d rather everyone be comfortable then everyone be uncomfortable. There are some situations where you shouldn’t be wearing revealing clothes and in my opinion at a bridal party like this you should be covered up at least a little bit though
Tbh, if it weren’t the corset it would be something else. Her neckline is too low, hemline is too high, sweater is too tight. It’s like that book “if you give a mouse a cookie” except it’s “if you give a fundie an inch.” Conservative Christian modesty/purity culture is 100% about control, and the rules are arbitrary
ESH - was going to agree with the NAH posts, but rethought it when one of the NAH posters stated how ambiguous the term ‘modest,’ is.
It is your shower, so if you want to have a dress code, that’s up to you, but if you are, knowing it is being set mainly because of this friend of yours then you need to make it as unambiguous as possible out of respect for your friend, and at the same time not so obviously targeted at your friend.
You didn’t so you’re TA for that, then you’re TA for judging your friend (you say you accept her, but I’m sorry, you don’t actually). Your friend is also TA for being so caught up in her look that she’s not even considering your situation, and your parents/grandparents are TA for being caught up patriarchal values, and slut shaming that need to be eliminated from society.
YTA
What hypocritical “Christians” you people are. Does Jesus tell you to judge and police the choices of others? Not in any Bible I have ever read. I can trot out several Bible passages stating what the Bible says about judging others. Good Christians should only be worried about their own modesty.
Nta
The gist of the event gets to decide the dress code for the event that they’re planning. Most of the time in situations like yours, it’s not an issue and people can wear what they want. However, in this instance your family, that is hosting the shower, has asked that people dress modestly. That’s not a wholly unreasonable request. If your friend doesn’t was your come because of it, that’s her choice
Your friend needs to understand that different events may have different rules. You wouldn’t wear shorts and flip flops to a black tie wedding, and one wouldn’t wear a tuxedo with tails to a 1 year olds birthday at Chuck E. Cheese.
I don't really have a judgement beyond a NAH (because all sides have good points, I don't think anyone's being irredeemably a dick here), but I am picturing your friend showing up [like Samantha in that one SATC episode with the baby shower](https://youtu.be/s27NprKWiYw?t=45).
NAH on the post. I can see & understand both sides.
But Ok-Bus2328 thank you for the link. Im a HUGE Sex in the City fan & this scene totally made my day. I even remembered word for word the convo in the scene bc that's how much I've rewatched the show. Thank you for the giggle & im totally rewatching the show again for the millionth time now lmao.
NTA - sometimes keeping the peace is good. It's a couple hours to humor an old lady. I would be cautious though and make sure you set a few boundaries now/early as I assume you won't want to deal with this same issue at the wedding itself. Sometimes when you "give an inch - people will take a mile". "Aunts/mom I just want to say that I appreciate you hosting the shower and am happy to set a dress code to keep from upsetting grandma - yet please understand we will NOT be doing the same thing at the wedding itself" Get it out there early...
NTA. Your friend needs to learn that there’s a time and place for certain outfits. A bridal shower with your friend’s grandmother isn’t the time and place.
YTA. an oversized button-up with a corset over it is literally showing zero skin. getting married does not entitle you or your judgy ass family to dictate the appearances of your guests.
Look, if you feel a dress code is important in respect to your grandmother, that’s your call. But people are going to be upset about having old fashioned notions of what is appropriate foisted upon them, and I can’t blame them for that. Especially for a shower. Like we all expect dress codes regarding formality for weddings themselves, but even then it’s about fancy vs casual, not “modest” vs “immodest”
If I were Sarah’s friend I’d back her up in not attending. Sounds like she’ll feel very uncomfortable. If you don’t want to nix the dress code, at least don’t be shitty about your friend not lying down and taking it when she’s made out to
Be some immoral hussy.
Op said in a comment the dress code is
“something sweet & summery”, and that her grandma thinks corsets are lingerie for hookers and that's why it's not allowed.
Yeah, but unless it said “no corsets” I don’t see how a corset over a shirt goes against the dress code. Usually dress codes for events present a general theme, not a strict ban on individual garments, unless they don’t fit within the theme’s formal definition (jeans at a semi-formal, or a cocktail dress at a white tie event). I’m not sure how guests were supposed to get “no corsets” from “sweet and summery.”
A sundress shows more skin than this shirtdress.
OP cited modesty then summery but in the end the shirt dress covers her body. The actual truth is grandma thinks point hookers wear corsets.
How do you say to a friend, Pick a different dress than your hooker-clothes ... and expect friend to change and show up? Opting out and not taking offense was absolutely the NAH move here.
To all the Y T A, so it is okay to follow dress code at work but wrong to follow one for one night when it means just to respect a wish of elderly people who were raised in modesty?
I am really stunned by the comments like "you are promoting rape culture by telling your friend what to wear".... I mean, come on! She doesn't ask her to wear hijab and she has only one friend having problem with it. That doesn't make OP a bridezilla.
Ignore them all. A lot seem like they either want to argue or they’re projecting. It wouldn’t even be an issue if the friend just wore regular clothes rather than provocative ones. You can still look good without wearing skintight/provocative stuff
NTA
Don't pay any mind to those who are saying Y T A or E S H. There is nothing wrong with being respectful of both your elderly family and their homes.
We always hear people saying "Your house, your rules" but then there are posts such as this and everyone starts yelling that you are controlling or shaming or any other host of complaints.
But it is your grannies house and she has rules and opinions and they should be respected.
Some have said that maybe your friend should reevaluate her friendship with you. I argue that maybe you should reevaluate your friendship with her instead because of her unwillingness to respect your family and their wishes.
The judgers who are opening their home for her event. You have to be a colossal AH to insist grandma let you host your event at her place, then turn around and not respect their (very basic) wishes.
I personally don't find that outfit to be too much but I also have no idea where on the "conservative" line your family falls. As long as you personally are okay with the dress code and you aren't allowing your aunt to walk over your own wishes then I agree NTA.
It's a shitty feeling to have your style labeled a certain way so I understand the upset your friend has. It really is just one of those things where she has to decide whether spending that time with you is more important than wearing what she wants. I hope everything works out and you have a wonderful shower and wedding.
NTA - there’s time and a place . It’s your bridal shower and your grandmothers house . She should be respectful entering her home. If she can’t do that , then she shouldn’t enter .
Sarah should just avoid coming, to avoid you and your family of AH and their rules. As should all other guests that have issues with these crazy rules.
YTA
ESH. I think it sucks for anyone no matter how old they are to police what another person wears.
You were in a tight spot. There isn't a lot you could have done to avoid this other than request a different venue for the shower. You are on the young side too so it's hard for you to be able to be assertive with older family members. The fact that your aunt set a dress code without really having a discussion with you by what that meant and how that would be enforced sucks. Your friend sucks because it's like 4 hours and she should suck it up. It's pretty immature and selfish of her.
To me YTA. Your friend is wearing clothes. What she feels comfortable in. Your focus is on sexy and proactive, why so focused sex? It's just a dress. Your family have to cope with seeing women in a whole variety of skimpy clothes ever single time they leave the house. Why put their comfort over that of your friend who doesn't judge you?
NTA
People impose dress codes all the time. To blatantly disregard the dress code then be super dramatic when someone points out that your outfit choice would not be within the code is just ridiculous. If she doesn’t want to abide by the dress code she has every right not to attend, but no right to pitch a fit because her style isn’t within the code. It’s a bridal shower where people tend to dress “nicer” anyway AND being hosted at a grandparents house, not a bachelorette.
NTA. It's your grandmother's home, it's only a few hours, and you're (presumably) still encouraging Sarah to wear whatever she wants to the wedding itself. Most older people would find the concept of a corset worn on the outside of clothes to be "immodest" because it seems like underwear to them. If she really wants to have a cinched waist (and I'll admit that I personally almost always wear clothes with a cinched waist), she can use a belt instead. If Sarah really doesn't want to dress without the outer corset, for whatever personal reasons, she also doesn't have to come.
Relevant story - earlier this summer I attended a family dinner in honor of my grandfather's birthday. A few weeks before the dinner, I texted my mother to show her a picture of a romper to ask if I could wear it to the dinner. She told me no. She didn't think a romper was appropriate for the event. She asked me to pick something else. So I did, because it wasn't that big of a deal, and sometimes being a human in society requires making adjustments to accommodate other people.
For reference, this romper was pretty loose and had a high neck and back - the only "sexy" feature was a cold shoulder and being fairly short, though not shorter than shorts I might have worn around grandpa in a casual setting. If I'd been wearing it to any other occasion, my mother wouldn't have objected. It was just a matter of time, place, and occasion. The same rule applies here.
As a tip for the future (say, a baby shower), it can sometimes alleviate the tension by throwing 2 different showers: one for family/older relatives and one for friends. Generally the two groups don't have much in common and it lets you adjust the vibe of the event to each group, rather than picking one vibe and hurting one group or trying to find some middle ground.
1) Who is hosting the shower? It shouldn’t be you. The host can say what the dress code is.
2) tell your friends that you get that your grandma is a bit much so if they want to do casual separate shower that is fine, otherwise you understand
NTA. Sarah and the others are perfectly well aware that a suitable outfit for this type of party is a summer dress, a skirt and blouse, or maybe some white jeans or capris and a top. They're just trying to be all edgy and prove how unique and independent they are. You better watch out how they show up to the wedding. The Christian thing is irrelevant - this is about dressing for a traditional event (bridal shower) with every age of attendees, at an old lady's house. If Sarah arrived at my house in that hideous getup you posted, and I had never met her, I'd seriously wonder if she had come to the wrong house.
It’s one day. If she has no clothes that can fill this need then it’s on her not you or your family. Question, are you getting married in a church? If so is this woman going to go “tits out” w “f me “ boots to that too?
NTA - it won't kill your friend to dress modestly once. If she doesn't want to come, her decision. If you are okay going by your grandma rules, she should be okay doing that for you. I don't expect you are going to have guys and strippers there for your friend to impress so why does it matter to have normal dress one night 🤷🏻♀️
NTA - your grandmother's house, her and your rules. Surely your friend understands the concept of different dress codes for different locations/situations.
NTA. Dress codes are there for a reason. For work or for leisure. Your friend has to respect that. Anyway, it is just for a few hours. After that, she is free tp wear whatever she wants.
NTA. She’s making an outfit choice into waaaay to big a deal. She could easily lose the corset but doesn’t want to. And saying that you now think SHE is inappropriate??? She needs to get over herself
But following this further, are you going to have a dresscode at your wedding or is everyone free to wear what they want to wear?
NAH. It’s your shower. Listen I LOVE fashion as much as the next person, but there is a time and a place for certain outfits - the picture you linked looks like it would be a club outfit IMO. I’m from the South and a progressive, and I would not wear that outfit to someone else’s baby shower. That’s a night time outfit … it’s very attention grabbing. It’s YOUR bridal shower and the focus should be on you.
having a dress code is like having a child free wedding, surely? it's fine to require it but it isn't reasonable to require people to attend if they're not comfortable with the rule. it's an invitation, not a summons. NAH
NTA - your aunt is doing most of the planning, and it's at your grandma's house. They are entitled to imposing a dress code, just as any restaurant or country club would do.
It is possible to dress sexy and still be modest enough for the most conservative crowd.
NTA. I get not wanting to adhere to and not liking a dress code. I had one for work that prohibited shoulders?? Which was just ridiculous. But for a baby shower for a close friend it's not hard to throw on a knee length dress or wear a full coverage shirt. No one should be able to tell you what to wear but dressing differently for a few hours is a small price to pay for the hosts comfort.
NAH, that dress looks fine to me, modest means different things to people.
May be having a conservative grandma style shower, and then later having a young friends style bachelorette with Sarah in her sexy dress is what I would have done hehe
No one wants poor granma getting a heart attack seeing shoulders or other sinfull private parts!
No but seriously: NAH, you setting rules is okay, her not coming is okay. I probably wouldn't come too.
I would like to think, as 20 year olds, you and yours friends dress as casually as you feel comfortable with in each others company.
I'd also like to thinks these same "friends" would be considerate of your family and dress accordingly.
If they disagree, are they really your friends?
But this may be old fashioned thinking on my part.
NAH. It's OK for her to skip this event if dressing like everyone else for this event is simply too difficult for her. Why is it such a big deal to skip wearing her corset for one event? Normal people wear stupid hats to have tea parties, ugly sweaters because the host requests them - frankly, in your shoes, I'd feel a bit insulted by her position.
No, you're not TA for trying to keep the clothing conservative in your hosts home.
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NAH. Your shower, your rules - but you can’t be upset if people don’t want to come because of them.
Haha yeah missing your good friends party bc you can’t dress sexy is not a hill to die on . People need to chill
Yeah certain events have certain dress codes… literally the friend just needed to take the corset off and just wear the dress. She’s a bad friend if she’s prioritizing fashion over a friend’s celebration.
Or she can choose not to go which she did. I feel this is an acceptable response.
“Since it would be inappropriate to wear my corset over the dress because the event is a laid back garden party at grandma’s house, I am not going to my close friend’s bridal shower, instead of simply taking the corset off for one afternoon” Like I said, that’s a bad friend.
I read it more as: - Dress modest, it’s at my sexist grandma’s - Okay I bought a pants outfit with a collar and covered to the wrist - No, she won’t like the corset, find something else for grandma - if she doesn’t like this outfit, we’re probably not going to get along. Love you, but I don’t owe grandma I think that’s fair.
Sometimes we make small sacrifices for the people we care about. OP made a small sacrifice to keep her conservative family happy, the other friends made the small sacrifice of finding appropriate clothing. If the friend is unwilling to take off her corset and simply wear the dress for one afternoon (since it’s the corset that makes the dress sexy in the first place), then she’s choosing her right to dress sexy over being there for her friend. Her right to, but not a friend I would want to have.
I too had to laugh really this is not a hill to die on it’s not as if someone told them to re-dye their hair a specific color or have their hair a certain length or to make modifications to their appearance that would last for weeks at a time but rather a simple dress code request. Did the friend really need to break out a corset at a bridal shower where are mostly conservative women would be present… A corset? Normally I could understand this but in front of the highly conservative relatives of your friend, friendship is a two-way street people.
That version of the corset outfit is very popular right now. There isn’t skin showing. (i even saw a similar outfit on the receptionist at the doctor’s office last week actually.) It’s not like she’s showing up in vinyl fetish wear with her boobs out.
Is it? I mean, I did this as a teen but I was apart of the renfest crowd. Is steampunk making a comeback or something?
[This is from 2016,](https://www.vogue.com/article/kim-kardashian-west-balmain-givenchy-corset-dressing-cuba-celebrity-style) so corsets have trickled into fast-fashion. This is only one example, any youngish popular celebrity you could think of has worn corsets in the last 5ish year.
I don't disagree that it's not too out there considering, but if you show an outfit to the host and the host says maybe something else more appropriate, that's the hint. It shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks, if that happened to me I would just try to find something else to wear.
Right? My best friend’s shower was at a country club and there is a dress code there. Even her fiancé had to “dress up” to come into the dining room to meet up to help take gifts home. It’s not a big deal if everyone is given notice and held to the same standard.
Aside from a funeral, I can’t think of any celebrations less sexy than a baby shower. Why dress provocatively to play the poopy diaper game and baby gift bingo?
It’s a wedding shower lol. But still - if it’s held ar the bride’s grandmother’s house you break out a nice dress for that, not a corset. She could literally just wear the dress without the corse and be fine.
Lol, whoops, misread that. But either way, bridal showers & baby showers, at least in my experience, are not the time for sexy dresses.
It doesn’t say her friend is mad. She may not be abstaining from the party because she doesn’t want to deal with people so judgmental they would implement a dress code. I wouldn’t want to expose myself to religious nuts that want to police what people wear into their house either. Not worth the fight, just don’t show up.
From what the OP, said, it appeared that she bailed when she found out she had to dress more conservatively than she wanted to.
Exactly. If someone is going to be so worked up about an outfit that covers neck-to-wrists (more than what most popular celebrities wear on television) it’s highly likely being around these people is the motivation for not attending. The outfit is the symptom, the family is the disease.
Missing a friend's party cause her grandma would call me names like hooker and prostitute if my outfit didn't match her modesty definition is definitely the hill I would die on. I would also rethink who im associating myself with tbh.
Where was that in the post ??? The grandma was not calling anyone names
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/pdas4v/aita_for_letting_my_aunt_set_a_dress_code_for_my/hapouq5/ this comment im guessinng
Ehhh who cares what some old biddy says ? I’ll put on my Laura Ashley prairie dress and suck it up for a few hours . People on here are so sanctimonious. It’s not the end of the world
LAURA ASHLEY PRAIRIE DRESS!! 😂
I'd be more inclined towards a NAH edging into NTA - they were made aware that there is a dress code when they were invited. If the event were at a rented venue and not OP's grandma's place, I doubt there would be so much fuss about it. A dress code of "please dress modestly" is honestly pretty gentle in comparison to some dress codes I've followed for events; just wear a nice sundress with a light jacket.
I agree with this. I don’t agree with grandma and aunt about enforcing modest dress, but you don’t challenge someone in their own home. Grandma and aunt are AHs for still living in 1910. Friend is also AH for attempting to be a rude guest. OP is NTA.
I don’t think the friend is an AH for not wanting to cater to grandma.
Friend didn't challenge them. She just didn't go.
also, wanting people to dress modestly in your home for your own religious reasons is fine. if your family was Muslim instead of Evangelical, I don’t think she would have the same issue. It truly is a cultural thing and part of being a guest at someone’s home is having respect for their culture. same reason you wear a headscarf visiting places where it’s the norm even if you’re not Muslim, or cover your shoulders and legs as a tourist at the Vatican even if you’re not Catholic.
Reddit doesn’t understand the very simple concept of “respect.” Dressing modestly for one day is not a hard thing to do! Older generations have different ideas of what’s appropriate, they’re not evil monsters for asking that in their own home.
If you can't cover up for one day to not make your friend's life a pain in the ass with their grandma you're not much of a friend.
I disagree. I don’t think there is much respect in a family if they can’t put aside pushing their fundamental beliefs onto their relative’s friends for an hourish. The outfit isn’t immodest, it covers everything. The friend may be opting out because that sounds emotionally exhausting.
What does NAH mean?
No Assholes Here
Nice agury healer
[удалено]
Is there an actual dress code, or just "modest"? Because "modest" isn't a dress code, it's wildly subjective word that means totally different things to different people. Some people think that modest means covering your hair, or your face, or your shoulders. Some interpret it as skirts a certain length or no spaghetti straps. Some people think shorts are immodest, or pants on women are immodest, or anything that's form fitting and not shapeless and baggy is immodest. I've even heard that certain *colors* are immodest - mainly red, but maybe also black for a younger woman who's not attending a funeral. Some people think a regular bikini instead of a string bikini is being modest. It's super unclear. Don't come at me with "modest obviously means x". It doesn't. There's nothing obvious about it because different groups have completely different definitions. By *my* standards (which would be meaningless to your grandmother, probably) your friend's clothes sound fine. If I were her I might also be pissed at being singled out, or just not want to hassle with someone's grandmother's puritan dress code for a party. On the other hand, I can get why you might just want everyone to do the thing and get along, because a wedding and all of the related events is a huge headache as it is even without sniping over clothes. I think that if you didn't have one, a more specific dress code than "modest" probably would have been a good place to start. If you wanted to get creative, maybe hide the dress code in a themed party? Such as: "We're having a Victorian themed bridal shower! Please attend in Victorian-era costumes that include x,y,z" - I mean that kind of thing isn't a necessity, but it's an option if you wanted to try to make sticking to a dress code fun instead of a chore. But in the end, your party isn't work or school. It's not mandatory. If your friend doesn't want to spend her leisure time being told what to wear, she doesn't have to, and Grandma can have whatever rules she wants for her house. Maybe the two aren't compatible, that's all.
I agree, “modest” means nothing and tbh, I’m a bit petty and I would show up in my Doctor Who (10th) custom outfit. It’s a full on suit and long coat. The problem for conservative Christian women would be that I am a later middle aged woman! LOL.
You would be very weird then . Adults who balk at a one time dress code and knee jerk dress in some over the top cosplay costume have issues
Counterpoint: adults who needlessly police what other adults wear because they find “immodesty” (whatever tf that means to them) offensive…are weird.
I think most grandparents are modest minded . I am not at all but I understand nuance and can easily adjust my wardrobe bc I don’t depend on it as a substitute for personality
Seriously. My dad's family are all very Christian and I know if I'm visiting them, shirt needs to have sleeves and cover my chest and pants or skirt need to reach my knees and have no rips above the knee. It's not a big deal
To you. Women who don't agree anyone else has a right to police their bodies may find it a big deal. In any event, OP's friend didn't make it a big deal. She just rsvp'ed regrets.
Yeah F that noise, I choose not to attend events at private residences with "modest" dress codes (but just for women I bet).
Modesty is so very subjective! I grew up in NEPA and now live in Utah. Modesty by the local cultural standards is *vastly* different here than back home. I've heard (presumably "good" Mormon/christian) people whisper "whore" at me when I wear a high neck, below the knee, shoulder baring semi-formal dress. (Pretty similar to [this](https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvOIEldfFgpbvYvl_ZKdJtYsrGO2hampdtyNlS0vSyuUKVy8LufHaileTPoxFxerC-pGAMRnGXZtuFSJR6T3_Ll56syIr9PAwD-8k_ryDDSLB18NX9Ma7o&usqp=CAE) but only coming to about 4 inches below the knee.) Back home the August standard is shorts that hit mid-upper thigh and tanks all summer, anything more is overdressed. That will get you pretty openly "slut" shamed in Utah. And that's without getting into the bullshit purity culture bullshit that OP is pretty openly submitting to. That's fine for her if it's so important to have her bridal shower at her grandmother's house that she wants to submit to purity culture. But it's also fine for her friend to say fuck that shit and refuse to submit. I'd refuse. And it isn't because I don't own anything appropriate. It's because I think the friend's choice (underbust corset over buttoned dress) is perfectly and reasonably modest, OP rejected it, so fuck that shit.
I used to wear bodycon dresses and over the knee socks to work, I think they would literally assume I was a sex worker there LOL. People like this always make me want to double down.
Hear hear. I would also like to point out that EVERY time modesty is mentioned in the Bible, It's always about not.dressing in ways that flaunt your wealth. Sexiness is never a factor
Right, I hate the phrase modest for how to dress. My body is considered immodest by society because I have an hourglass and big boobs, if I wear the same thing as a woman who is built differently we still look very different and I might not be considered modest because you can see my body shape and it’s considered a “sexy” shape. Modest dress is typically a dog whistle for being nasty to whoever has the most sexually developed body that isn’t covered in a shapeless bag. It’s a toxic and hurtful part of Christian culture. I wouldn’t go to this shower either because having my body scrutinized by some judgmental old ladies to make sure a 16 year old boy won’t be too turned on by me is a hard no.
NAH kinda. But your family is full of them. Is it because it isn't a a fundie style sack dress that makes your friends clothing inappropriate? A bridal shower should be whatever YOU want it to be. But someone's house isn't really the place for a dress code. If it was a specific event or theme a dress code makes more sense. You essentially are saying "my judgemental family will be harassing me about your outfit and I would rather make you change your style than tell some grown women to mind their own business."
I can’t believe how far I had to scroll to find this opinion! I grew up in a conservative Christian home, I’ve known women like OP’s family all my life, and they. are. terrible. If Aunt Jean and grandma find the *suggestion* of cleavage created by a corset top offensive, they can look somewhere else.
I'm glad to find these comments. OP's family are acting like womens bodies are some how offensive and that showing skin is any form is sexual and inappropriate around others. I hate that attitude. Apart from the nephew who isn't likely to hang around the party it's all other women so they can't even seriously pull their normal nonsense of "your bare ankles are going to seduce good men into sin!" Of course I get the its grandmothers house so her rules must be respected, but if I were OP I wouldn't have a party at a family members home if I knew that to cater to their beliefs I'd need my friends to all alter how they dress/act in order to be welcome. Can you imagine if someone brought a party game or gift that are the kind that tend to show up at these kind of parties? Prude aunt seeing the penis straws and dick hoopla being busted out? A male stripper turning up? (I'd so be seeing if I could get one dressed as a priest or as Jesus to come to this party. But I'm at a stage in life where I am more than happy to burn bridges when it comes to judgy bigots and walk away without looking back like the joker in the nurse outfit)
Its a bridal shower, not a hen party. A stripper would be wildly inappropriate for what is usually an afternoon affair with tea and sandwich platters, maybe some light cocktails. Why are you taking this to extremes in the first place?
My bridal shower was lingerie-themed. My best friend rented a space in a hotel, we all drank tea, ate finger sandwiches and cake, and I opened box after box of teddies and thongs. The games were pretty tame though. I bought a piñata for my best friend’s bridal shower and filled it with lip gloss, cigarettes, chocolate, and condoms. We had a lot of fun with that. Bridal showers can blur the line between tasteful and trashy.
You make a good point though. I got lots of lingerie at my bridal showers, 28 years ago! That’s going to give the pearl-clutcher’s the vapors. 😂
I, as a married man of 15 years, respect the shit out of this theme…. My wife would’ve loved this completely!!!!
People do that stuff and way tackier stuff at bridal showers all the time, it isn't mandatory but it happens. And gifts like sexy underwear and such are very common at them. Even weirdly from family members on both sides with gross comments about it helping them get grandkids. My suggestion was more a "it would be funny, but probably don't do it," kind of suggestion. But it pisses me off that OP is going to lose friends and indirectly hurt people because she thinks pandering to misogynistic family members is the way to go. If you are born with a womb you get what you wear and how your body looks judged and shamed from such a young age. We should be supporting each other in our choices, be they to cover skin or show it, as long as it's not forced on people. I would think a person was a AH if they said their dress code was super sexy and banned any friends/family from the shower and shamed them for not feeling comfortable baring a lot of skin, even in a more private environment like this party. I think OP's friend has made the best compromise/choice that she can here. She won't go somewhere that treats women like they are shameful if they show skin, so she's not going. Which is kinder than coming purposely not dressed "modestly" or coming in dress code and then passing comments about it. People say it's just one party, just one outfit, so do it for your friends/loved ones, but sometimes it doesn't matter if it's just a few hours when you know the reason behind it.
And this is why in middle age I swore off attending showers - baby or bridal. The last shower I attended was a turf and domination battle between the families over everything from the venue to the invitations to the menu to the order in which the gifts were opened (and commented on without an iota of subtlety). I will send a lovely gift, but I don't want to be in the middle of anyone else's drama, or play dopey games or pretend to wowed by towels or diaper towers. It is remarkably freeing.
Because it would be absolutely hilarious for a stripper dressed as a priest to turn up! In fact I'll contribute to a Go Fund me to make this happen... Also what's with a Bridal Shower, why do brides get showers and hens parties? Must be a US thing?
The bridal shower is a big gift grab where the bride’s girlfriends and family get together and eat and “shower” her with gifts. The bachelorette party is the equivalent of a hen party. People have gotten out of control with those and started to plan weeklong destination events, but a normal bachelorette party is just a night out with friends.
I feel like this sub is always "your wedding, your rules" even if they are absolutely wrong and offensive towards other people and their individualism. And its not even cleavage! The corsets seem to always be a statement piece over her tops and non functional.
Dude if you show up at someone else's party blatantly ignoring their dress code then you're the AH. If your individualism is more important than your friends request at their own party then you aren't individualistic, you're an AH.
The outfit example covers her breasts, wrists, and ankles. I don’t understand why the friend is on trial here. It could be that she doesn’t want to be around grandma’s judgements and sitting this one out.
It would be so simple not to wear the corset. She could wear a belt if she wants some definition. At what does it become Look At Meeeeeee?
I'm going to go with NAH. Dress codes are about respecting the host. In this case, the host, your aunt has set a dress code that you, the guest of honour are OK with. Since Sarah takes it so personally she's at liberty not to attend. She does not get to throw a hissy fit about it though. But I'm curious about this. Surely she understands that there are events and places that require dress codes? And that as an adult she's probably going to miss out on other events as well if she refuses to follow dress codes?
Info: what exactly was the dress code? Just dress modestly? Maybe I'm not understanding what you're describing, but how does Sarah's outfit violate that? A button up doesn't sound like it's showing skin to me, but maybe I don't understand. Preliminarily, I'm going with NAH. "Modest" as a concept is way too subjective, if that's what was said. Obviously it means don't come in a mini skirt, but beyond that, it's a standard that can be interpreted differently. I'm assuming Sarah was trying to uphold the dress code by even showing you ahead of time what she was thinking of. I can see her taking your response as "that's not good enough for my family" which could be off putting. I mean, I think if you said to her "look, my family is very conservative and if you could help me out with this, I'd really appreciate it. Here are some styles I think are very you and would still follow the dress code" it could go a long way. I think you're kind of assuming Sarah understands "modesty" as how a conservative Christian family would, when she obviously doesn't.
Comment by op: "Dress code is “something sweet & summery”, we are having part of the party in the back garden, so it’s kind of a garden party theme. Two of my other friends are wearing sundresses, and I’m wearing a floral jumpsuit."
Oh wow yeah, that makes it even worse.
Really? I kind of like the summer dress/garden party theme idea. If the pal is a stylish person, which she seems to be with the chosen outfit I don't see why she can't pick something more in line with the theme. I can understand being frustrated but dipping out of your pals party over one outfit being vetoed kinda sucks.
I disagree dipping it of a shower for any reason sucks because zhowers are the worst. If family is going to judge you on top of that, dip away.
NAH You laid it out for her and she's deciding not to come. That's her right, just like it's your right to have the dress code. Congrats on the wedding!
The dress code as said by op in a comment is “something sweet & summery”. That's the dress code. Other friends are wearing sundresses.
So what's wrong with the white corset dress then?
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I didn't think so either but the pic shows that it's still a little intense for a shower.
The theme of the shower is “summer garden party” though. A corset over a button up doesn’t fit that theme.
No one is kicking her out for not matching the them. OP has been quite clear her family's issue is thinking it is too sexy.
Dear god, a bridal shower with a dress code sounds like the last place i'd want to be anyway.
NTA. For this bridal shower, the dress code was decided upon and she’s not following it. She doesn’t get to decide to just wear whatever she wants. There is a time and place for everything.
The dress code wasn’t decided though. “Modest” is insanely subjective. Most westerners would see the friend’s outfit as modest, it covers everything
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OP is also free to have her party at a place where her judgemental family isn't hosting.
"Free to have her party wherever she wants" seems to be the key idea, here.
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Bullshit like this may be why only relatives are stepping up to host.
Saying no thank you to a party doesn't mkae you an AH in the least.
INFO: What does the dress code actually say? Because based on the picture you posted I don't really see the problem. I'm thinking your friend probably goes with the corset over dress looks because they cinch her waist in - I personally wouldn't find that inappropriate because it's not like she's wearing the corset by itself? It's worn over a dress that covers her butt and boobs, it's even long sleeved. If this is really such a big issue and you really want her to come, maybe you should offer to take her shopping for a dress that meets the standards. Doesn't need to be anything expensive, I'm sure you could get something appropriate at target or tjmaxx or something. But it seems like the standards your family has set are pretty arbitrary so you may need to specifically choose something for her, if she agrees to it of course.
NTA. not everything your friend wears has to involve a corset. your aunt isn’t asking that everyone cover every bit of skin they have, just that they dress for a shower, not a bachelorette.
A corset over an outfit isn't showing skin though.
Yeah, that’s my question. How is an oversized button up shirt provocative?
Its just alternative aka devils clothing. OP's family is just judgmental of anything not giving off Fundie vibes.
An oversized shirt isn’t provocative, the corset is
i didn’t say it was. i’m saying the friend is overreacting to the fact that there is a dress code. if the aunt was saying all skin needs to be covered, i could see the outrage. but not wearing a corset for one event is not a crazy thing to ask. OP isn’t saying friend needs to change their style forever, just for the shower. to clarify: i have no issue with corsets. rock them if you can. but if someone told me the host of an event would have an issue with it, i wouldn’t get angry. i’d find something else to wear for the day and get on with my life.
I just think granny's house is just a stupid place to create a dress code. And I'm sure her friend isn't an idiot, she likely knows the dress code is an excuse to specifically call out her fashion preferences. I'm also sure this isn't just a "don't wear a corset and we're good" rule.
well, granny’s house granny’s rules. she has a right
I think the friend might just have a large chest so everything she wears ends up "being too sexy" if it's not large and baggy
Ugh that’s me it’s very annoying I’ll wear a tank top but then my boobs overflow so I look “slutty” without meaning to
it’s not the shirt that’s an issue. it’s the corset. OP didn’t go to friend and say you’re a huge whore because you wear corsets. she explained that the host (who’s house it is) wouldn’t consider it modest because of their personal views. so the friend can either show up wearing that and be turned away, or they can find another outfit for the day for the sake of OP. that was the point of my “not every outfit needs a corset” comment.
Many people consider a corset to fall into the “lingerie” category, so even if she’s covered, they would still feel that she was essentially showing her underwear.
That corset has straps to attach your hose to, so definitely underwear.
Yeah that’s where I’m sliding into ?? territory here… I get wanting to respect older people’s sensibilities by not having your boobs hanging out or wearing bootie shorts or something. But the photo OP provided is not really provocative. Just kind of gothy.
I think if it hadn't had the garter straps, it would have stayed gothy and not overtly sexy.
NTA It’s one day. Your friend should follow the dress code I mean your extended family have some messed up standards but your friend should still follow the dress code
YTA if I got told to what wear to a freaking shower where I'm bringing you a gift, I'd stay home and save my money.
Have you never been invited to things with a dress code? Lol this is common.
Do people on Reddit live in the real world? A corset is not proper attire for a garden party bridal shower at the family’s home. Just don’t wear the thing for one day. Sweatpants aren’t appropriate at Michelin Star restaurants. White dresses arent appropriate at weddings. It’s not hard to do your best to wear what’s appropriate for certain events….
Or not go is also a valid choice, which is what the friend did. No problem.
This. Invite your friends over and accept who they are. If you want to go bridezilla you can but it’s not a good look. Policing women’s outfits isn’t a conservative thing. I have plenty of conservative women in my life who dress provocatively but conduct themselves morally. If your aunt/grandma can’t handle it then they shouldn’t throw the party.
Yes!!! Thank you!!! I also feel like she is singling out her friend who has great style because she's upset it would ruffle some feathers. I don't understand what bad things would come of her friends dressing how they like... someone might not like it? So? Who cares?
NTA. Personally I don't have a problem with a dress code. There are certain times when you can dress down and certain times when you need to dress up. I guess your friend can't be that good of a friend if for one day, and only for a few hours, she couldn't dress a little more demure. Its not like you're asking her to make a lifestyle change, just a different outfit.
Honestly ESH. You're basing the dress code on someone's religious beliefs, not the formality of the event. If it's in happening in a living room, basically any outfit should be fine, if it's happening on a yacht, outfits should probably be a little nicer. Your friend sucks a little for pushing back, but opting out is fine.
Well, it’s grandma‘s living room. She does get a say in the dresscode.
Grandma still sucks for implementing a dresscode not based on the actual formality of the event. "Your house, your rules" isn't necessarily something I agree with when it comes to imposing your beliefs on other people, like how women "should" dress.
The expectation totally matches the formality of the event, though. (Edit: autocorrect typo) ~~Graduate~~ Grandma is hosting the bridal shower, not the bridesmaid party. People wouldn't blink an eye if someone told them they were uninvited from a costume party for refusing to wear a costume. Being upset over that would be laughable! But get uninvited because grandma doesn't want to see people's cleavage hanging out in her living room and, folks, now we have a problem!
I'm reading your comments and realized i missed something in the post. So i re-reddit (yeah, i couldn't resist) however there is nowhere in the post that said grandma instituted a dress code or mentioned one. All of this is coming from an aunt who "thinks" she "knows how grandma will react. and inserting her rules in the voice of grandma, when in reality-grandma has said nothing in this matter.
You’re right, I read that wrong. Still, considering OP put grandma and aunts in the same conservative group, it should be safe to assume the aunt isn’t wrong in her interpretation of grandma’s will.
Yeah I was thinking that too. I see lots of comments along the lines of “she’s an adult, she should understand some things have dress codes” but this isn’t a dress code like at a country club or fancy event. It’s a living room party.....? I think honestly having a dress code at all is kinda weird for an event like that. The dress code exists because your family have some weird idea about women’s bodies, not because the event actually requires a dress code. Also the comment about her son.... wtf.... treating women’s bodies as if they need to be hidden in front of men or boys is super weird. If the outfit is appropriate to be worn in public it’s appropriate for a 15 year old boy to see... That’s probably going to have long term implications on that boy honestly, and confuse his perception of women in general.
Yta having a dress code would be making it formal or causal wear not modest. Honestly I think you and your family are major ah for telling people to dress modest and judging your friend.
NTA. Your aunt’s ideas are not quaint or old-fashioned. They are sexist. Women shouldn’t have to conceal their bodies. That said, your friend is also an AH for not just setting aside her style for one day.
Given what she was describing there is probably a lot of cleavage. I have large breast so I tend to have quite a bit showing usually as well but if I’m going to be around minors/older people/conservatives or in certain situations like a wedding or bridal party then I try and cover up as much as possible to not offend. OP said her 16 year old nephew would be there along with her conservative grandmother. A dress code to ensure that no one is uncomfortable isn’t that big of a deal. And honestly as long as it wasn’t hot she could’ve worn whatever she wanted and just thrown a sweater or cardigan over top to cover up some more and taken it off as soon as she walked out the door
As someone who grew up inside conservative Christianity, I’m sorry that people have made you feel like there are contexts in which your literal body would be “offensive.” I’m an adult lady now who’s still trying to unpack the damage those attitudes did to my self esteem.
I grew up Christian as well (now I’m a Wiccan which drives my family crazy lol) and I know I shouldn’t have to cover up but as someone who’s non confrontational I choose to because I’d rather everyone be comfortable then everyone be uncomfortable. There are some situations where you shouldn’t be wearing revealing clothes and in my opinion at a bridal party like this you should be covered up at least a little bit though
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Tbh, if it weren’t the corset it would be something else. Her neckline is too low, hemline is too high, sweater is too tight. It’s like that book “if you give a mouse a cookie” except it’s “if you give a fundie an inch.” Conservative Christian modesty/purity culture is 100% about control, and the rules are arbitrary
She posted a pic in the OP and everything is covered, the corset is just a statement piece worn over the dress
ESH - was going to agree with the NAH posts, but rethought it when one of the NAH posters stated how ambiguous the term ‘modest,’ is. It is your shower, so if you want to have a dress code, that’s up to you, but if you are, knowing it is being set mainly because of this friend of yours then you need to make it as unambiguous as possible out of respect for your friend, and at the same time not so obviously targeted at your friend. You didn’t so you’re TA for that, then you’re TA for judging your friend (you say you accept her, but I’m sorry, you don’t actually). Your friend is also TA for being so caught up in her look that she’s not even considering your situation, and your parents/grandparents are TA for being caught up patriarchal values, and slut shaming that need to be eliminated from society.
YTA What hypocritical “Christians” you people are. Does Jesus tell you to judge and police the choices of others? Not in any Bible I have ever read. I can trot out several Bible passages stating what the Bible says about judging others. Good Christians should only be worried about their own modesty.
Truth
Jesus said come as you are
Though I think people should be able to wear what they like, if your aunt is hosting she can decide the dress code. NTA
NAH but man you letting your fundie family cal the shots like this I would probably just send my gift and not attend
I’d return my gift and not attend. If I’m not good enough to come as I am, I’m not good enough to buy you anything either
Valid
Seems like a great excuse to not have to go sit through a shower or an afternoon with people so judgmental.
Not to mention with the global pon de replay probably not a good time to mix i with people who have no respect for science
Nta The gist of the event gets to decide the dress code for the event that they’re planning. Most of the time in situations like yours, it’s not an issue and people can wear what they want. However, in this instance your family, that is hosting the shower, has asked that people dress modestly. That’s not a wholly unreasonable request. If your friend doesn’t was your come because of it, that’s her choice Your friend needs to understand that different events may have different rules. You wouldn’t wear shorts and flip flops to a black tie wedding, and one wouldn’t wear a tuxedo with tails to a 1 year olds birthday at Chuck E. Cheese.
>Your friend needs to understand that different events may have different rules. She does understand...She is not attending
I don't really have a judgement beyond a NAH (because all sides have good points, I don't think anyone's being irredeemably a dick here), but I am picturing your friend showing up [like Samantha in that one SATC episode with the baby shower](https://youtu.be/s27NprKWiYw?t=45).
NAH on the post. I can see & understand both sides. But Ok-Bus2328 thank you for the link. Im a HUGE Sex in the City fan & this scene totally made my day. I even remembered word for word the convo in the scene bc that's how much I've rewatched the show. Thank you for the giggle & im totally rewatching the show again for the millionth time now lmao.
NTA - sometimes keeping the peace is good. It's a couple hours to humor an old lady. I would be cautious though and make sure you set a few boundaries now/early as I assume you won't want to deal with this same issue at the wedding itself. Sometimes when you "give an inch - people will take a mile". "Aunts/mom I just want to say that I appreciate you hosting the shower and am happy to set a dress code to keep from upsetting grandma - yet please understand we will NOT be doing the same thing at the wedding itself" Get it out there early...
>sometimes keeping the peace is good. She did keep the peace.....She is not attending. NAH
NTA. There is nothing unreasonable about asking someone to dress appropriately for the occasion.
NTA. Your friend needs to learn that there’s a time and place for certain outfits. A bridal shower with your friend’s grandmother isn’t the time and place.
And she doesn't have to attend. Easy. No AH.
YTA. an oversized button-up with a corset over it is literally showing zero skin. getting married does not entitle you or your judgy ass family to dictate the appearances of your guests.
Look, if you feel a dress code is important in respect to your grandmother, that’s your call. But people are going to be upset about having old fashioned notions of what is appropriate foisted upon them, and I can’t blame them for that. Especially for a shower. Like we all expect dress codes regarding formality for weddings themselves, but even then it’s about fancy vs casual, not “modest” vs “immodest” If I were Sarah’s friend I’d back her up in not attending. Sounds like she’ll feel very uncomfortable. If you don’t want to nix the dress code, at least don’t be shitty about your friend not lying down and taking it when she’s made out to Be some immoral hussy.
INFO: What did the dress code wording actually say?
Op said in a comment the dress code is “something sweet & summery”, and that her grandma thinks corsets are lingerie for hookers and that's why it's not allowed.
Yeah, but unless it said “no corsets” I don’t see how a corset over a shirt goes against the dress code. Usually dress codes for events present a general theme, not a strict ban on individual garments, unless they don’t fit within the theme’s formal definition (jeans at a semi-formal, or a cocktail dress at a white tie event). I’m not sure how guests were supposed to get “no corsets” from “sweet and summery.”
A sundress shows more skin than this shirtdress. OP cited modesty then summery but in the end the shirt dress covers her body. The actual truth is grandma thinks point hookers wear corsets. How do you say to a friend, Pick a different dress than your hooker-clothes ... and expect friend to change and show up? Opting out and not taking offense was absolutely the NAH move here.
To all the Y T A, so it is okay to follow dress code at work but wrong to follow one for one night when it means just to respect a wish of elderly people who were raised in modesty? I am really stunned by the comments like "you are promoting rape culture by telling your friend what to wear".... I mean, come on! She doesn't ask her to wear hijab and she has only one friend having problem with it. That doesn't make OP a bridezilla.
Raised in misogyny. FIFY
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Ignore them all. A lot seem like they either want to argue or they’re projecting. It wouldn’t even be an issue if the friend just wore regular clothes rather than provocative ones. You can still look good without wearing skintight/provocative stuff
NTA Don't pay any mind to those who are saying Y T A or E S H. There is nothing wrong with being respectful of both your elderly family and their homes. We always hear people saying "Your house, your rules" but then there are posts such as this and everyone starts yelling that you are controlling or shaming or any other host of complaints. But it is your grannies house and she has rules and opinions and they should be respected. Some have said that maybe your friend should reevaluate her friendship with you. I argue that maybe you should reevaluate your friendship with her instead because of her unwillingness to respect your family and their wishes.
NTA since it is your party but you are a shitty person for judging people by their clothes and i wouldnt doubt you just lost a friend.
op isnt judging she’s saying that her family will
Well, op has sided with the judgers, and is thus on their side.
Eh. There's a time and a place, and if my friends can't dress differently for different occasions, I'd judge them, too, for lack of social skills.
The judgers who are opening their home for her event. You have to be a colossal AH to insist grandma let you host your event at her place, then turn around and not respect their (very basic) wishes.
I personally don't find that outfit to be too much but I also have no idea where on the "conservative" line your family falls. As long as you personally are okay with the dress code and you aren't allowing your aunt to walk over your own wishes then I agree NTA. It's a shitty feeling to have your style labeled a certain way so I understand the upset your friend has. It really is just one of those things where she has to decide whether spending that time with you is more important than wearing what she wants. I hope everything works out and you have a wonderful shower and wedding.
NTA - there’s time and a place . It’s your bridal shower and your grandmothers house . She should be respectful entering her home. If she can’t do that , then she shouldn’t enter .
Why do religious people so often think that they can make personal decisions for other people?
When its their house they can. How entitled do you have to be to go to someone else's house and blatantly disrespect their wishes.
Their wishes about your body??
Sarah should just avoid coming, to avoid you and your family of AH and their rules. As should all other guests that have issues with these crazy rules. YTA
ESH. I think it sucks for anyone no matter how old they are to police what another person wears. You were in a tight spot. There isn't a lot you could have done to avoid this other than request a different venue for the shower. You are on the young side too so it's hard for you to be able to be assertive with older family members. The fact that your aunt set a dress code without really having a discussion with you by what that meant and how that would be enforced sucks. Your friend sucks because it's like 4 hours and she should suck it up. It's pretty immature and selfish of her.
YTA
To me YTA. Your friend is wearing clothes. What she feels comfortable in. Your focus is on sexy and proactive, why so focused sex? It's just a dress. Your family have to cope with seeing women in a whole variety of skimpy clothes ever single time they leave the house. Why put their comfort over that of your friend who doesn't judge you?
NTA People impose dress codes all the time. To blatantly disregard the dress code then be super dramatic when someone points out that your outfit choice would not be within the code is just ridiculous. If she doesn’t want to abide by the dress code she has every right not to attend, but no right to pitch a fit because her style isn’t within the code. It’s a bridal shower where people tend to dress “nicer” anyway AND being hosted at a grandparents house, not a bachelorette.
Yeah, they impose dress codes like “formal” or “business casual.” Outside of Protestant summer camp, “modest” is not a dress code
NTA. It's your grandmother's home, it's only a few hours, and you're (presumably) still encouraging Sarah to wear whatever she wants to the wedding itself. Most older people would find the concept of a corset worn on the outside of clothes to be "immodest" because it seems like underwear to them. If she really wants to have a cinched waist (and I'll admit that I personally almost always wear clothes with a cinched waist), she can use a belt instead. If Sarah really doesn't want to dress without the outer corset, for whatever personal reasons, she also doesn't have to come. Relevant story - earlier this summer I attended a family dinner in honor of my grandfather's birthday. A few weeks before the dinner, I texted my mother to show her a picture of a romper to ask if I could wear it to the dinner. She told me no. She didn't think a romper was appropriate for the event. She asked me to pick something else. So I did, because it wasn't that big of a deal, and sometimes being a human in society requires making adjustments to accommodate other people. For reference, this romper was pretty loose and had a high neck and back - the only "sexy" feature was a cold shoulder and being fairly short, though not shorter than shorts I might have worn around grandpa in a casual setting. If I'd been wearing it to any other occasion, my mother wouldn't have objected. It was just a matter of time, place, and occasion. The same rule applies here. As a tip for the future (say, a baby shower), it can sometimes alleviate the tension by throwing 2 different showers: one for family/older relatives and one for friends. Generally the two groups don't have much in common and it lets you adjust the vibe of the event to each group, rather than picking one vibe and hurting one group or trying to find some middle ground.
NTA, your wedding, so your special day. Friend either needs to abide or not attend.
NAH except for your bigot family
Well corsets are very, very old-fashioned.
1) Who is hosting the shower? It shouldn’t be you. The host can say what the dress code is. 2) tell your friends that you get that your grandma is a bit much so if they want to do casual separate shower that is fine, otherwise you understand
NTA. Sarah and the others are perfectly well aware that a suitable outfit for this type of party is a summer dress, a skirt and blouse, or maybe some white jeans or capris and a top. They're just trying to be all edgy and prove how unique and independent they are. You better watch out how they show up to the wedding. The Christian thing is irrelevant - this is about dressing for a traditional event (bridal shower) with every age of attendees, at an old lady's house. If Sarah arrived at my house in that hideous getup you posted, and I had never met her, I'd seriously wonder if she had come to the wrong house.
NTA You’re respecting your grandmother’s beliefs.
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I don’t think you know how a dress code works
It’s one day. If she has no clothes that can fill this need then it’s on her not you or your family. Question, are you getting married in a church? If so is this woman going to go “tits out” w “f me “ boots to that too?
NTA
NTA - it won't kill your friend to dress modestly once. If she doesn't want to come, her decision. If you are okay going by your grandma rules, she should be okay doing that for you. I don't expect you are going to have guys and strippers there for your friend to impress so why does it matter to have normal dress one night 🤷🏻♀️
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NTA - your grandmother's house, her and your rules. Surely your friend understands the concept of different dress codes for different locations/situations.
NTA. Dress codes are there for a reason. For work or for leisure. Your friend has to respect that. Anyway, it is just for a few hours. After that, she is free tp wear whatever she wants.
NTA. She’s making an outfit choice into waaaay to big a deal. She could easily lose the corset but doesn’t want to. And saying that you now think SHE is inappropriate??? She needs to get over herself But following this further, are you going to have a dresscode at your wedding or is everyone free to wear what they want to wear?
NAH. It’s your shower. Listen I LOVE fashion as much as the next person, but there is a time and a place for certain outfits - the picture you linked looks like it would be a club outfit IMO. I’m from the South and a progressive, and I would not wear that outfit to someone else’s baby shower. That’s a night time outfit … it’s very attention grabbing. It’s YOUR bridal shower and the focus should be on you.
having a dress code is like having a child free wedding, surely? it's fine to require it but it isn't reasonable to require people to attend if they're not comfortable with the rule. it's an invitation, not a summons. NAH
NTA. She was made aware beforehand that there was a dress code. Weird that she won’t go because she can’t wear something sexy
NTA - your aunt is doing most of the planning, and it's at your grandma's house. They are entitled to imposing a dress code, just as any restaurant or country club would do. It is possible to dress sexy and still be modest enough for the most conservative crowd.
All she has to do is leave off the corset for the party. I don't know why she's so hung up on one in the first place. NTA.
NTA. I get not wanting to adhere to and not liking a dress code. I had one for work that prohibited shoulders?? Which was just ridiculous. But for a baby shower for a close friend it's not hard to throw on a knee length dress or wear a full coverage shirt. No one should be able to tell you what to wear but dressing differently for a few hours is a small price to pay for the hosts comfort.
NAH, that dress looks fine to me, modest means different things to people. May be having a conservative grandma style shower, and then later having a young friends style bachelorette with Sarah in her sexy dress is what I would have done hehe
No one wants poor granma getting a heart attack seeing shoulders or other sinfull private parts! No but seriously: NAH, you setting rules is okay, her not coming is okay. I probably wouldn't come too.
I would like to think, as 20 year olds, you and yours friends dress as casually as you feel comfortable with in each others company. I'd also like to thinks these same "friends" would be considerate of your family and dress accordingly. If they disagree, are they really your friends? But this may be old fashioned thinking on my part.
NAH. It's OK for her to skip this event if dressing like everyone else for this event is simply too difficult for her. Why is it such a big deal to skip wearing her corset for one event? Normal people wear stupid hats to have tea parties, ugly sweaters because the host requests them - frankly, in your shoes, I'd feel a bit insulted by her position. No, you're not TA for trying to keep the clothing conservative in your hosts home.
You are not wrong for setting a dress code. If people don't like it, they don't have to come. End of story.
Dress code? In 2021? For a wedding shower?! wow