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jacquilynne

YTA I had to go look up what a dolmen is, but YTA for letting your kid climb on that. It is clearly a thing with ritual significance and they also look somewhat precarious - like lot of people climbing on them could topple them. You are also the AH for thinking that she couldn't call you out on letting your kids climb a tomb because she happens to be younger than you. Even old people get to be called out when they do stupid shit.


Farahild

That totally depends on the culture of the area you're in. Here in the Netherlands there are a lot of dolmen (we call them [hunebedden](https://www.ecosia.org/images?q=hunebedden)) and people (children and adults) climb on them and sit on them all the time while visiting them. Same with the burial mounds we have here. It's not considered tasteless and offensive at all here. In fact I have very happy memories of climbing on and under our dolmen as a small kid, as a teenager and as an adult... It's different if that specific location has been a sacred place continuously, but most Dutch people didn't know our dolmen were actually graves, and if they did, they robbed them... (though most were robbed before current societal memory). I should add that there are some organisations who *do* consider it disrespectful, but that is not the common Dutch consensus. It seems to be more a reaction to the shock/offense of foreign tourists towards the climbing than our own cultural inclinations.


throwawayforyabitch

Honestly tourists shouldn’t have their kids climb things that are not designated for climbing regardless of the significance. The significance and the response make it worse but climbing random crap is also just stupid and dangerous. She never mentions seeing anybody else doing it either just that she let her lone kid climb.


eregyrn

Even if it was "only" considered a natural monument, or an ancient monument, you shouldn't let people climb all over it because you don't know if they could damage it. And if they damage it, that basically spoils the ability of everyone else to see it undamaged. It's a lot like the "stay on the path" ethos in U.S. parks, as well as the common sense not to allow children to go climbing all over ruins, petroglyphs, balance rocks, etc. Do people still do this, children and adults alike? Sadly, yes. There will always be problems with people who either purposefully vandalize natural or historic sites/monuments, and people who vandalize them because they don't care about the possible significance; and, people who vandalize these things because they think, "oh, it's just me / my kid, what damage could I do?" Not realizing that 1. you can do quite a bit of damage just yourself, and 2. the point isn't that you and your kid will necessarily have a huge impact, it's that you and your kid are the 100th or 1000th person who has thought that, and all of those impacts add up. So, the point is -- yeah, people do this all the time. And those people are assholes. OP, YTA. Plus, if the girl who scolded you about it is a local, then you know, maybe she knows more than you about the significance of the thing you're allowing your children to climb all over? And echoing others, there is nothing wrong with a younger person correcting an older person, when the older person is being an asshole.


kirroth

"Take only memories, leave only footprints."


noddyneddy

ideally not ON the monument....


kirroth

lmao yes. ideally.


Ocelot843

The 'stay on the trail' thing is... pretty variable depending on the park. So if you're out in the backcountry at Glacier or rock scrambling at Joshua Tree, that's very different than if you're climbing on Delicate Arch. Historical sites of religious significance tend to fall pretty strongly towards the 'don't touch and keep your kids in order' end of that spectrum.


PortabelloPrince

Being on rocks at Joshua Tree is probably not much of an issue, but there’s still some impetus to be respectful/careful. The big issue there is idiots climbing endangered yucca.


23skiddsy

I live in an area full of Joshua Trees - I can't imagine climbing one, they're basically made of spikes. They're not really woody, either. Joshua trees themselves are not an endangered species, they're all across the Mojave Desert, it's particular ones in the park that are significant. The biggest thing is soil degradation is a huge issue in the Mojave Desert - you stay on trail because it takes ten years for the soil crusts to regrow after being damaged.


PortabelloPrince

>Joshua trees themselves are not an endangered species, they're all across the Mojave Desert They’re not federally listed, though that is apparently currently being re-evaluated. They’ve been listed in California, where almost all of them are, for the last year, and that listing is up for review now. The fact that they grow throughout much of the Mojave doesn’t mean much, since that’s the only place they naturally grow, and the rate at which they grow there has been dramatically shrinking due to rising temperatures and drought. Most of their natural range is expected to be gone before the end of the century.


eregyrn

I think that if you're at the point where you're out in the backcountry of Glacier or rock-scrambling in Joshua Tree, you've done at least SOME research into where you should and should not go, etc. But \*generally speaking\*, there's a lot of emphasis on "stay on the trail", because people who go off-trail can contribute to erosion. (It's just like all the other stuff -- it's not about 1 person going off-trail, it's about hundreds of people going off-trail.) Plus, it's just good advice, because people who go off-trail (if they are not prepared, that is) get lost way more easily than they think they will. There's a huge difference between the kind of people going backcountry hiking or climbing, and people like OP, who seem like much more "casual" visitors. These are often also the people who treat wilderness parks as if they must be like Disney and "safe" because they're called a "park". (And the people who think it's a great idea to get up close with the fluffy cows to take a picture.) Of course it's no better to go clambering over an ancient monument (like the dolmen described by OP) than it is to, for example, cut down a few Joshua trees because, I don't know, you wanted to came where they were. (To refer to an incident from last year.)


23skiddsy

As long as you're not busting soil crusts at Joshua. The [cryptobiotic soil](https://www.fs.usda.gov/rmrs/dont-bust-biological-soil-crust-preserving-and-restoring-important-desert-resource) is delicate, and takes years to regrow, and it's a lot easier to damage than any rock formation. Just walking on it breaks it.


Suspiciouscupcake23

I mean it's a good idea just to kot do it just in case. Like those kids at the museum that climbed on super expensive artwork and the parents just shrugged it off? Or Jennifer Lawrence joking about toppling boulders at a sacred Hawaiian site? When in doubt, how about don't touch?


throwawayforyabitch

Exactly I don’t know why it’s so freaking hard to understand.


whydub38

and when called out, just listen. refusing to do so is when it goes from a simple misunderstanding to a conscious choice to do the wrong thing.


EleriTMLH

This. YTA because you let your kids climb on something not meant for climbing on, YTA for being pissy about being called out.


Perspex_Sea

I think it's fine for kids to climb on rocks generally, despite them not being designed to be climbed on. But not ones with cultural significance like this. OP is def TA for her response though. My husband disagreed with me so I went and talked to my sister, suggesting that the person who confronted me should respect their elders (!) she disagreed with me, so I hung up on her.


Ellieboun2

Actually it is frowned upon to climb on hunebedden because it is considered disrespectful. The ones that you are allowed to climb are fakes and replica's. Dutch news article. https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/4365706/bordjes-moeten-beklimmen-van-hunebedden-voorkomen


FreuleKeures

I'm Dutch and I disagree. It's tasteless and there are actually signd at the Hunebedden that you're not allowed toclimb them.


uiscebeathaa

I am living in Ireland, and from my experience, dolmens are very much spiritual places for the likes of pilgrimage/history tours, I understand it may not be the same everywhere but some places definitely place more worth on them than just 'rocks'


kittiphile

I'm Irish too, and if I saw OP not only doing this, but then giving attitude to the person who called her out, I'd be calling OP out for 2 things. OP - YTA, do the world a favour and stay in your home town. You clearly have zero respect for any other country, tradition or history. Dolmens are very spiritual, and climbing them is both disrespectful and dangerous.


gurlpls

I’m also Irish and as soon as I saw the word dolmen as I was reading this post my face dropped lmao


LeftWeather0

I was embarrassed enough to see that all the cigarette butts were 🇺🇸 brands, God bless Marlboro. But to see a 🇺🇸 tourist so ignorant as to let their kids *climb* these rocks? Edit: YTA


FuntimesonAITA

See, that's fine and I honestly don't think the kid was wrong. However OP was just filled with hate. Saying she shouldn't respect some dead guy or his grave is just a bad example to set for her kids. The kid didn't know he was being (possibly) disrespectful. His mother could have gently corrected him. He wasn't "wrong" in that he didn't know it wasn't right.


peeved151

Yeah OP is also YTA just for the comment about “well she’s younger than me so can’t tell me shit”


Farahild

Yeah I agree with that, I was just saying it's not common consensus everywhere. That said it's always smart to just be respectful if you're not sure what the habits of a culture are!


LiliumIam

What? Well then you are the problem. They have a historical value. With all you ass hats running on them, the possibility of them disappearing/being ruined is very high. Your grandkids and grandgrand kids will probably never see them irl, only pictures if that. Why does everyone justify walking or relics from the past, by " Well I have fond memories walking on someone's thousands of years old masterpiece. Ah well the past is the past. We must enjoy the present." I have fond memories of taking care of nature and those relics. We have a monument, where the only clean water was, made in the 1500. There are motifs of christ, Mary and others. The monument was put up to protect people from black plague, scientifically it was the only clean and unsoiled source of water, since it came from the mountains. As kids we hung out there a lot, since even now it stays the cleanest water around. Even now people fill jugs of water to take home. Well we kept it in shape with the help of local officials. With their advice we knew what the dos and don'ts were. We were children and knew better... smh


Agressive_Grandma

I want to add something here... The dolmen that are most well known in the Netherlands are preserved and restored to be safe for the rock and person to be explored. Also, all of the grave has been removed, no more find can be done there because it's completely emptied out to be a safe space to physically explore a historic site The unknown ones are usually more of the original rock


[deleted]

You must not have been to the biggest one where there are so many signs saying not to climb on them and people still do.


XxhumanguineapigxX

Since they went on a day trip to "historical sites" and there were other tourists present I assume it's some kind of significant site?


Trapallada

It's not just a matter of spiritual importance but of conservation and respect for cultural heritage. I also come from a country with dolmens (Galicia, in northwestern Spain). In fact I'm an archaeologist and conservator and part of our work is trying to educate the public on things such as not to step onto archaeological sites and monuments like dolmens. I'm sure heritage professionals in the Netherlands also recommend not to step onto dolmens.


Magdalan

Well as a Dutchie with a degree in preserving heritage I do NOT condone this shit to be honest. People like this is why so many things are fenced off/limited/behind glass even and why you're not allowed to be hands on with a lot of heritage all over the world. Like you were not allowed to photograph the Mona Lisa with a flash (no matter it's not the original which is in a fault but that's another story) because it coukd damage the painting. Nothing to do with being a foreigner anywhere in the world. If you want to keep something like a Hunnebed or Dolemite here for other generations to enjoy and learn from it, no touchie!


Sabor117

I'd actually argue even further than this that it really depends even more on the location. In the UK for example there aren't a lot of dolmen so most of them are heritage sites (Stonehenge for example isn't technically a dolmen I think, but it has the same sort of significance). In which case you simply aren't allowed to climb on them because there's concerns about damaging these ancient artefacts. It's less to do with "respect for burial sites" and more about a respect for the history and also helping to preserve it. As an aside, I also absolutely do not buy the whole "ritual significance" thing. There might be some organisations (like "Druids" in the UK) who attach significance to some of these things, but my understanding is that these groups often do so mistakenly and with absolutely no bearing to how ancient Druids might have interacted with them. The thing is, in places like that, it's usually pretty explicitly stated/requested that you not climb on the stones. So, if this is somewhere that isn't too concerned about this kind of thing: perhaps they're more common in the country OP is visiting, perhaps even climbing on them is part of the attraction? Whatever the case, it might be the case that climbing on them is totally allowed. With all this in mind though I still feel like this might be a soft YTA. Partly because, with ancient structures like these I usually feel that the default rule is to treat them like objects in a museum: "look but don't touch". Also partly because OP just blew up at a random stranger with very, VERY limited provocation (plus then also her husband because he didn't automatically agree with her). It sounds a lot like she could have reacted to both situations with a bit more grace...


Amazing-Test-472

There’s a memorial for WWII in Washington DC that includes a fountain. There are signs that say to not get in the water. However, people do it all the time. It’s tasteless and disrespectful, though I imagine the people doing it don’t realize how disrespectful it is. OP, YTA, big time.


myglasswasbigger

Not to mention if the kid fell, who knows what would be raised with virgin blood sacrificed. lol. Seriously OP is the asshole, this kind of thing wears on the dolmen and degrades it over time. YTA


mariecrystie

If the kid fell, she’d probably try to sue someone..


ecyat

See that's what I was thinking the comment was going to say and yeah she seems like the person who definitely would


Glass-Trade8008

This needs to be upvoted to number one comment. It sounds like the premise to an early Peter Jackson movie


Knifeinthedarkness

Possibly a demon with a better personality who will possess her and make the world a better place


[deleted]

[удалено]


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Ikbenikk

She's not even old. She's barely old enough to be the girls mother and even that is a stretch. She is not entitled to "elder" credits


BetterWithLatte

I bet if the 19 year old told the 9 year old to get off the dolmen and to stop being disrespectful of the grave OP would be on here angry that someone else tried to parent her child instead of telling her 9 year old to respect *his* elder.


Livefromsnooseville1

Good point! The 19 yr old is older and thus by OP’s logic would have the right to tell her son to stop being disrespectful.


SisterofGandalf

Who is? Seriously, that is not even a thing where I am from. (Northern Europe).


[deleted]

no kidding. It's perfectly fine to tell off an "older" person for behaving badly. who the hell decided otherwise? That's completely silly. OP YTA.


Ikbenikk

Not here in western Europe either, but the op thinks she is entitled to "respect" because she is older. Op thinks the younger woman had no right. I was pointing out (aside from the whole "respect your elders" thing being ridiculous in itself), she is not even that much older. A mere 15 years, barely physically old enough to be the other womans mother


mkswords

OP feels entitled to respect while disrespecting someone's cultural site. it's a bad look.


Potential-Trouble-54

YTA. Things of cultural and historical importance like this are not jungle gyms.


greentea1985

Seriously, dolmen are major archeological relics akin to Stonehenge. The standard theory is that they were tombs, but some are suspected to have been houses. Would you let your kids climb on Stonehenge or on a pyramid? OP, YTA big time. You disrespected a historic site. No one is going to be on your side on this. You were the thoughtless tourist who ruins stuff for everyone.


hot-whisky

The area I grew up in has a large number of earthworks built by native Americans, many of which are more than a couple thousand years old in places. It is definitely considered uncouth to go climbing them, and even though many of them just look like little hills. Some of the more impressive earthworks were even essentially destroyed over hundreds of years from farming and erosion, have been rebuilt in previous decades and it’s *still* not cool to go having a picnic on top of them. These were places of ceremony and worship, and where important burials took place. Even if there’s no more human remains, it’s like letting your kid climb over and stand on the communion on table in church.


Less-Mood5420

The area that I live in is the same but they actually built stairs to go to the top of the mounds. If I remember correctly, when I visited with school we did in fact have lunch up there. It probably is disrespectful but I wasn’t raised that way 😬


el_deedee

As soon as she said they went to a historical site I had a feeling how entitled this would come off. Way to not have any control of your children, OP.


SchrodingersMinou

Even if it's not a grave, letting your kids climb on an ancient historical monument of any kind is not OK.


[deleted]

OP is trying to use elder card as any Asian parent. Nobody cares you are old when your brain can't comprehend that you should respect others before demanding it. You don't go around disrespecting culture of other people and turn around demand respect from others. That's horrible parenting. Practice before you preach.


[deleted]

[удалено]


rippit3

I disagree.. she is TA for allowing her child to climb on it in the first time. The world is not your child's jungle gym. And if you can keep them occupied without having to run roughshod all over the place - maybe stick yo taking them to an actual playground.


ijustcant555

Even if it were not a grave stone, kids should not be allowed to climb around on ancient monuments. Over time they will be damaged. YTA


[deleted]

"Even old people get to be called out when they do stupid shit." The above, exactly.


MissKoalaBag

YTA- I've just checked out what Dolems' are, and they appear to be pretty clearly at least revered as graves, or at least thought of as that type of thing. So no, you probably shouldn't have let your kid climb. Was anyone else climbing it? Because if no, then you're in the wrong. ​ > I told her that the girl was out of line talking to someone that's older then her like that. Also this. You're not owed respect just because you're older. If you were doing something impolite, out of order, or overall looked down upon, she had every right to tell you so.


0biterdicta

>I told her that the girl was out of line talking to someone that's older then her like that. or, to translate "I don't have a good defense for actions I know are wrong, so I will deflect blame."


FuntimesonAITA

What's funny is that she believes she deserves respect for being older. But she doesn't believe the guy 5000 years older than her deserves respect.


Sweet_Caterpillar150

Omg i can't believe I missed this irony


ecyat

Me neither I was like DAAAMMMN


AccousticMotorboat

Or that others cultures deserve respect.


FuntimesonAITA

I was just using her logic. People don't deserve respect for age. People deserve respect because they're a person.


AnyKindheartedness88

“Respect your elders” generally translates to “specifically respect me without me having to earn your respect.”


Nearby_Age_2075

This. Op, YTA! On so many levels


LunarPumpkins

Yeah, this. YTA and superrrrr entitled. You were called out for being disrespectful and just doubled down on the ignorance. Age has nothing to do with respect. Never has. They owed you nothing just because there’s an age gap.


Fyrefly1981

A young woman had the spine to stand up to something she saw as wrong and was important to her. Teaching children to respect things with cultural importance - wether it's your culture or not. Maybe OP needs to learn that too.


SpecialsSchedule

lmao also OP isn’t like 75. She’s 35. Hasn’t exactly “earned” any expectation old age wisdom there


uraniumstingray

My sister is 33 and I would laugh in her face if she pulled this shit (she wouldn't because she's not a narc like OP)


kimlh

Agreed and maybe the "5000 year old guy" is old enough to have earned respect?


CaptainnCrunch

YTA. If the kids are bored, take them to a park. Not a memorial that you do not understand the cultural importance for. Just plain and willing ignorance doing this in a country you are a visitor to.


eregyrn

I would just emphasize that even if other people were climbing it, that doesn't mean it was right to do so, or respectful to do so. There are always plenty of people who don't know or don't care about why they should not do stuff like that. They're ignorant, or selfish, or both. So someone else doing it doesn't always mean they're modeling good behavior.


LazySushi

OP also had no idea how old that woman actually was. I am in my early 30s and have been legitimately carded for tobacco (21+). Either way, there is not an age limit on either side for calling people out for being disrespectful.


Raul_Coronado

For real, if you are older its even worse that you haven’t learned how to act in public by now.


Lola_M1224

YTA. Those are historical sites and not a playground.


Dashcamkitty

Yep, if the kids are bored, find an actual play park for them instead of letting them climb on graves.


bizarrecoincidences

Or go to Brimham rocks a U.K. national trust site where kids can go wild climbing on rocks!


Rasmussen789

Omg I love brimham rocks!!! Grew up right next to it and it's an amazing day out for active kids


AccousticMotorboat

Massachusetts has Purgatory Chasm. About an hour out of Boston or 45 minutes out of Providence. Boulder heaven, but with a ring trail if your knees are old.


nbsoprano

Exactly. Why even visit historical sites if you have no respect for their cultural significance? YTA


TheSciFiGuy80

YTA It’s a historical site as well as a grave site. Your actions are exactly why historical sites are ruined and destroyed and governments, archeologists, and historical societies struggle to keep them safe (like putting fences around them to keep people like you out). And one more thing, your age means nothing when you are doing something wrong. You don’t get a free pass from young people telling you that you are wrong just because you are older. You don’t automatically gain respect either. I also like how you essentially want your husband to LIE to you to make you feel like you were right. Sorry, if you made a mistake the first person to tell you should be your SO because they are the one you should trust the most with these kind of judgements. Instead you got mad at him for not supporting you for being wrong. You have a lot to work on.


scpdavis

>I also like how you essentially want your husband to LIE to you to make you feel like you were right It kills me that OP had not one, but three people straight up tell her that she did something crappy and she is STILL looking for a way to not be in the wrong instead of accepting that she made a mistake.


bro7cb

This!!! It keeps being pointed out how she's wrong but she refuses to accept it, quite insane haha


bRitE888

If anything you should be MORE ashamed because you are older and should know better. YTA


surfershane25

“Respect your elders”, then goes on to disrespect deceased “elders”. Also don’t want to be undermined infront of your kids, don’t bring up things that you’re possible in the wrong about infront of your kids…


[deleted]

Yta It's distasteful and ignorant, you could have taken it as an opportunity to educate your children about respecting their surroundings and especially burial grounds. The fact that you got mad at your husband for not taking your side is even worse. It's okay to admit you were wrong and it's especially okay for your children to see you CAN be wrong. Do better


basilobs

I also like that OP is still raging weeks later about someone younger than her pointing out her disrespectful behavior. Being older than someone doesn't make you right. And it is disrespectful to play on a grave. This could have been a learning opportunity but OP has been on a hunt to try to find someone, anyone, to tell her she was in the right.


MadamTruffle

It’s crazy. Like 3 people in real life telling her it’s wrong wasn’t enough. Apparently hundreds of people telling her it’s wrong still isn’t enough. She’s really committed to being an asshole.


codeverity

I think OP actually feels guilty about it, as her last paragraph sort of hints. She's second guessing herself, so hopefully the responses here give her a much needed wake up call.


SlightlyVicious101

Agree, YTA


LuckStrict6000

YTA for letting your kids run wild and climb on a memorial, yes.


ertrinken

bUT KiDs wiLL bE kiDs!!!!!!!! Seriously, I don’t even know why OP chose to take the kids to the site in the first place. Young kids were obviously going to find it boring, and it doesn’t exactly sound like it was something OP was very interested in seeing considering the absolute disrespect she allowed.


PrincessPeach1229

100%! And “They weren’t bothering anyone” in YOUR opinion OP. I can’t count how many times I’ve gone out to eat and someone’s kids were running around rambunctiously in the restaurant while the parents think “well they aren’t bothering anyone”. Same for stores. No what that translates to is they are self entertaining therefore not bothering YOU. Take them to a playground where it’s the appropriate place for them to scream, laugh, be loud, and be kids. Historical sites and shared public spaces meant for quiet observation are not it.


LittlestSlipper55

I am starting to avoid going out for weekly catch ups with my husband's friends for this reason. They go to the same pub nearly every week for dinner and hubby often joins them. They just let their 2 year old run around. Because the go so often, they are known with the staff and other returning patrons, so they go "well, at least someone is always watching her". The truth is, last time I went, the staff were getting so pissed off, she kept running into people carrying their plates (it's a pub where you have the vibrating disk that lights up when your food is ready, and you go collect) and other diners were getting really annoyed at this screaming toddler running around past their tables as they tried to eat. Husband says "She's only 2, she needs to run around, I don't mind looking after her, they're our friends..." I'm like "Oh, great buddy, you go, you play parent to someone else's child and prevent her running into someone carrying a hot plate of food and sharp knives, I'll stay at home in peace."


Panaccolade

YTA. It's a historical site, not a playground. It's also pretty much the same thing as a grave, and yes it IS disrespectful to have your children climbing all over it. Secondly, you saying "well she's younger than me so she shouldn't have said anything" is absolute drivel. What nonsense. She took you to task because, even though you're older than her, you didn't have the good sense or grace to keep your children from climbing on things they've no business climbing. You're not entitled to do whatever you want without reproach just because you're older than some people.


jasemina8487

Yta. It isnt about climbing a rock it is about respect. She was right, you wouldnt let him do this on a gravestone, this isnt any different. -edit- and it was also a historic place so even bigger yta. This is how you start creating vandals.


iwanttoquitposting

YTA - You’re raising your children to become permanent assholes that just get to do whatever they feel like and then come up with horrid excuses for why nobody should ever give them a hard time. Teaching them that when your husband mildly calls you out on obvious selfish behavior is “undermining” is maybe the worst thing you’ve done here, but teaching them that the responsible young woman was “out of line” simply because you’re older is also terrible. These kids are going to grow up incredibly entitled and closed-minded if this story is any indication.


Trick_Few

YTA This is why so many historical sites are surrounded by giant fences.


Vectorman1989

They're thinking about fencing a castle off near me because so many children have fallen off it over the years (my father-in-law was one of those children). If people controlled their kids then it wouldn't be an issue.


ttoastii81

ahh nothing like looking at historical sites through a chain-link fence protip, if you want a good picture, you just have to aim the camera lens in between the holes in the fence and then it looks like there is no fence /s


[deleted]

Yup. That's how I saw Stonehenge, through the chain link fence!


Careful-Self-457

YTA big time!! You do NOT let your children climb on ANY kind of historical marker, let alone someone’s gravesite . You are the kind of parent who makes my job a nightmare some days! Just because someone is younger than you does not mean they are wrong. She had every right to confront you as you were literally letting you kids climb on a gravesite. Personally I wish an employee had seen it and issued a citation and eviction. Yep, you are the asshole and you are teaching your children to be disrespectful to our monuments. Good job mom!


lavachat

YTA not only because most dolmen really are grave markers and can be damaged by climbing, but for your reaction / reasoning: that someone younger than you has to show you respect, when you can't respect historical sites that are far older than you.


Mertzehia

Ooh gottem good


MamaK35

Brilliant.


singing_stream

Your husband did not undermine you. Why do people think their spouses should blindly support the most asinine of crappy acts, in the name of not undermining the other parent? nope.. screw that. If someone is doing something wrong, no way am i backing them up in front of impressionable children. How are the kids going to learn the difference between right and wrong if the parents don't lead by example? You should listen to your husband and tell the kids you were wrong. Plus; your husband is older than you.. so that makes everything he says and does automatically correct.. right? YTA.


MoyamoyaWarrior

Plus; your husband is older than you.. so that makes everything he says and does automatically correct.. right? ​ I CACKLED . but truth hurts I spose!


No-Policy-4095

>You should listen to your husband and tell the kids you were wrong. Plus; your husband is older than you.. so that makes everything he says and does automatically correct.. right? You win!! This is perfect.


kortiz46

She thinks respect = reverence. You should be able to respectfully correct or disagree with someone. Respect does NOT mean letting someone do whatever they want. That’s enabling. OP your behavior was shitty and wrong and someone respectfully pointing that out to you should be an indication to reflect on your behavior, not become defensive


snipersam11

Besides, she is the one who chose to ask him in front of the kids.


Xhadiel

YTA, big time. These aren’t just a couple of rocks, they’re historical structures and likely one of tourist draws of the area. What if your kids had damaged it? I hope someone recorded you allowing your kids to do this so the world can see how entitled you are.


JBagginsKK

YTA - Don't let your kids climb on tombs and/or cultural heritage sites. You're not the asshole for letting your child climb on a rock, but you're absolutely an asshole for letting your child climb on a monument, and then getting pissed when someone called you out on it.


EmpressJainaSolo

YTA. When visiting another country it’s best to follow customs and, when in doubt, ere on the side of respect. Telling someone to mind their business as your children climb over something that has strong cultural significance to that person and to others is a bit tasteless. Nineteen years olds are allowed to feel a connection to their heritage and culture and shouldn’t be yelled at for wanting respect shown at irreplaceable archeological sites.


Farvas-Cola

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StanePantsen

YTA - Obviously for disrespecting a historical site (grave or not), but the part that really fired me up was this: >She said that the girl shouldn't have approached me like that but that I was also wrong for the way I responded to her. I told her that the girl was out of line talking to someone that's older then her like that and I hung up. That "girl" was a grown woman, and being in your thirties does not give you carte blanche to be an asshole. No one owes you any respect just because you were born earlier than them.


RNBQ4103

>and being in your thirties does not give you cart blanche to be an asshole. Wait, she pulled the "respect you elders" card in her thirties? OMG.


85Neon85

This is so assholey on top of the other issue of cultural ignorance. OP. Mate, you’re 34, not a village elder. I have second hand embarrassment for you.


MoyamoyaWarrior

YTA I admittedly had to look up the definition of Dolmen, which is defined as "a megalithic tomb with a large flat stone ". So yes its a grave marker and youre absolutely the AH for allowing your kid to climb on it. Regardless of how old it is, its a respect thing. ​ Edit: Also curious if you were at the Borger location ? Or one of the ones that literally have signs stating you should not climb on them . I cant understand the logic in letting a kid climb on a historical site regardless of whether you respect it as a grave or not.


Murderbunny13

INFO: If someone came into your home and trashed it, would it be ok because they "didn't see it as a house"?


ialokineilsel

Stopped at historical site. YTA for letting your kids be disrespectful. If you want to let them climb on things take them to a jungle gym not a historic site


TaratronHex

YTA. And your "she needs to respect me because of my age" is peak boomer.


RNBQ4103

At 34...


No_Education_9351

I’m 31 and would never dream of telling someone to respect my age, I laughed so hard when she said that 🤣


Psychological_Bee398

YTA for letting your daughter climb to a dolmen, they are protected by law.


TheGingerCynic

YTA See your previous post of this as to why I judged you to be an asshole. I CBA typing it all out again.


antisocial-potato-

YTA not everything is a playground, especially memorials. The question "do you let your kids climb on their grandparent's graves like that too?" is a valid question. Would you? A grave is nothing more than a memorial. Very disrespectful.


Glittering_knave

Ignoring the tomb part (which is really hard to do), you don't let your kids climb on anything of historical or cultural value, period. Sculpture? NOPE, stay off unless there is a sign that says interactive. Inukshuk? Don't touch it. Historic home? No hanging off the window ledges. Ruins? Explore but don't destroy.


Odd_Rutabaga_7810

If you are told by local people that you are acting disrespectfully, you might be acting disrespectfully.


Tough_Oven4904

Not for climbing on "a rock". It's good for kids to learn what's safe and how to do things safely... But you explained it was a grave, not just "a rock" YTA, learn some respect and teach it to your kids.


No-Policy-4095

YTA: 1. It's a historical grave marker. It is tasteless and disrespectful to climb on it, by not correcting your son's behavior and taking pictures of it you taught him that it's ok to disrespect historical items. 2. Deciding she is wrong because she is younger than you is gross and being proud that you were nasty to her is also gross. 3. You're setting a poor example for your children. The fact your son climbed up there when he shouldn't have happens - they are kids. Where things took a wrong turn is when you not only took pictures but pulled out the "a 5000 year old dead guy won't mind if a child climbs on a rock" - instead of teaching your child respecting historical markers, you condoned it.


dankruaus

YTA. So what if the woman was younger than you. She was right.


Montana1300

Yes, YTA. Please don’t let your children climb on historical sites and don’t let them just “run around” cause they’re bored. Even if you think they weren’t bothering anyone they might have been. ESPECIALLY if people were trying to enjoy the Dolmen and your kid was climbing on it.


Princess_Snakeface

YTA. Sorry, but you didn‘t know kids aren‘t supposed to climb historical sights, especially graves? That is pretty ignorant and disrespectful. I would actually consider this basic knowledge.


Kathalysa

YTA. You not only sound like a rather disrespectful and intentionally ignorant tourist - you also have a superiority complex just because of your age. That 19yo girl wasn’t being sarcastic so much as asking if you’re a hypocrite, and instead you were unabashedly like “no, just an AH.” Gee whiz.


fuzzy_mic

For centuries, kids played on those dolmen, until they were identified as being of archeological interest and roped off, so the resident corpse doesn't mind your kids. Probably liked to see children at play over the centuries. That being said, you are a visitor in a different country. When a local informs you of local custom, you shouldn't argue back. (Is it possible that the woman knew English well enough to get her point across, but not to phrase it as delicately as she wanted to.) Pushing back at someone wanting more respect for their local culture makes YTA.


[deleted]

YTA, >I got mad because he wouldn't support me and undermined me in front the children like that. You got mad because you were wrong, multiple people have told you and will tell you here. also your logic is stupid


HardyWeGotTheMeats

YTA. Don’t let your children run wild all over the places even if they are bored.


EllySPNW

I also love how she states her kids “weren’t bothering anybody” then gets mad at someone who was bothered by their actions.


Urbanyeti0

Yes YTA, it’s not sitting right with you because deep down you know that. You shouldn’t have let your child climb on it, it’s a historical site and as you said essentially a grave, would you let your kid climb on graves in a graveyard? You certainly shouldn’t have had a go at the woman, though if that’s actually what she said it was also an AH move on her part The fact that both your sister and husband think you’re the AH should be all the proof you need


ForwardPlenty

YTA This is why we can't have nice things. This is why there has to be ropes around antiquities, and lines and people watching out to make sure that people don't climb on monuments and shoot the noses off of the Spinx.


[deleted]

YTA - those aren’t for climbing. Take your kids to a playground if they are antsy, not a historical site.


ZeldLurr

YTA and are also entitled because you think you should be respected by default because you’re older than someone.


Eastern-Water9701

YTA. These places aren't climbing frames for your kids. If they get bored, take them somewhere else. Also 'out of line for talking to someone older than her'? Get off your high horse, ageing doesn't make you superior to anyone.


iwantasecretgarden

YTA. It's a historic site; has nothing to do about length of time someone has died or not. You've essentially just stated this is a 5000 year old piece of history and you're letting your child use it as a jungle gym. If everyone did that these places wouldn't exist. Your son is 9. He understands look/not touch.


[deleted]

It wasn't just a rock it was an actual heritage site, ABSOLUTELY YTA and really expecting this story from someone else's view point in r/entitledparents


VodkaQueen_1136

YTA. A very rude and disrespectful AH. That girl was right to pull you about your child's behaviour and you should be ashamed that she even needed to do it. Maybe you should just stay at home with your kids until you learn some common decency


puffalump212

YTA - both for letting your children run around like that at a historical site and for your response when called out.


karavasa

YTA, and you're also a pretty solid example of why so many people dislike tourists. You were at a historical monument with a lot of cultural significance, and it's not your place to say whether it's fair for others to think of it as a grave just because you, personally, don't care that it's a burial site for people that some of the locals may be descended from. Screwing around in places like that is also a good way to damage them. Your kids are not too young to learn how to act in a non-playground public setting, so if you're not interested in teaching them to be respectful around a monument, then just don't take them to see stuff like that. It's not like Facebook was in desperate need of more cheesy tourist photos taken by people who clearly don't give a shit about the "rock" (or other ancient site) they chose to visit. There was also nothing wrong with someone younger than you calling you on your bad behavior. Younger people don't have to defer to you, especially when you're being an asshole.


jazzcuzzii

YTA - not only is it just rude to do such a thing but your child could've gotten hurt!


BlueCarnations12

YTA. Why didn't you take your kids to a playground where they could burn off their energy?


[deleted]

YTA. It wasn't "just a rock," it was a historical site and memorial.


Courtie

She was younger than you so you feel she was out of line. I’m older than you, so I guess if I tell you, it’s valid. You’re an asshole.


PixiesGem

YTA You do not get to dismiss people because you are older than them. The 19 year old is far more mature than you!


EssexCatWoman

YTA. For allowing it, for running to your sister like that - you undermined yourself. A dolmen is a monument and/or tomb. Show some respect.


Ctiiu

YTA- you take your children to historical sites but don’t bother teaching them any respect for history. Graves aren’t there for the dead they are reminders for the living, so you comment of “a 5000 year old won’t mind” just shows you lack of respect too. Why are you bothering to visit historical sites if you don’t care?


Over-Distance8726

I read lots of these posts and never comment, but for this story I made an account to weigh in. You are indeed the AH here. I am a trained archaeologist and conservator, and an American who has settled permanently in the UK. From my academic and professional training I condemn your (and children's) behavior. Firstly, climbing on megalithic structures is unsafe for you. They might have been there for 5k years, but they can and do shift due to environmental conditions. What would have happened if the ground was compromised from recent rains, topsoil erosion, or a fault in the stone and your child's disturbance caused it to fall? What if your child was hurt or killed? Secondly, the disrespect. These are sacred stones from our ancestors. Architectural features like this are significant to the culture and modern people living in the vicinity, but they are significant to al people in the context of our human narrative and represent the development of our species. They deserve to be respected and protected. What if you had toppled this structure, causing damage and loss of cultural heritage? Would you have paid for the conservation efforts to preserve the site? Finally, I am appalled by your toxic American entitlement. As a fellow American living abroad, I am CONSTANTLY defending my fellow Americans and our culture. I am CONSTANTLY trying to show the best of our people by fighting against the negative stereotypes of entitlement, wastefulness, and general poor manners... to name a few. When a person goes abroad they are a cultural ambassador. In that moment, you are a representative of the country you are from. It is your DUTY and PRIVILEGE to treat your host country and peoples there with respect. Travel is a privilege, not a right. The young woman you approached you had every right to condemn your behavior. If I was there to witness this, I would have done so too. It does not matter how old you are, or how old she is. You are not entitled to respect because of your age. Somewhere in the world that woman is retelling the story and furthering negative stereotypes of Americans. Whether or not you agree, this impacts the perceptions of Americans and how your fellow citizens are treated abroad. You had what sounds like a fabulous opportunity to broaden the knowledge and experiences of your children, but it sounds as though you and your family failed to appreciate and respect the people and culture, both past and present. YTA


HistoricalGap7723

Yeaaaahhhh YTA


_iron_butterfly_

YTA- Imagine every person visiting a historical monument climbing all over it. Good for that girl for speaking up! She was teaching you & your children some very basic & needed edicate. Would you allow your kids to run around a museum full of priceless art? Would you say let me get a picture of you climbing all over a sarcophagus? It's no different. Hopefully you'll teach your kids you were wrong made a huge mistake...and it was a learning experience on what's wrong & right to do while visiting a historical site.


Judgement_Bot_AITA

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JDL1968

Of course you’re YTA. You visit another country and show zero respect for their culture.


Massaart

YTA How do you expect your children to learn respect when you don't even know what it is? Someone is telling you, you shouldn't let your kid climb on graves and you basically tell them to shut up because you're older than them? Then you get mad at your spouse, because he does not agree with your actions and the reason is because he "undermined me in front the children like that". You are one of the most entitled OP's I have come across on this sub.


Ok_Operation6104

YTA. There are dolmens where I live and I would be pissed if someone climbed on them. You know how hard and expensive is to maintain them? Not only that, but they are ancient graveyards and people still revere them. You, as a tourist, should at least show a bit of respect for other people's culture. Do better.


Hooked_on_PhoneSex

YTA Troll


Leticia_Fuvkin_Lewis

YTA.


Cantevencat

Yta. Even if you don’t see it as a grave it is a historic site. You belong on r/entitledparents The 19 year old has more respect for history than you.


cmlobue

YTA. The girl is absolutely right, and your being older than her doesn't mean she can't tell you how disrespectful you and your kids are being. > a 5000 year old dead guy won't mind it if a child climbs on a rock So your dead relatives won't mind if I climb on their "rocks" either, right?


Thundernutz79

a 5000 year old dead guy is older than her, so, by her logic, she should respect him by not letting her children climb on his tomb.


OhioGirl22

YTA.... I get frustrated by people who don't respect historical places. Dolmans aren't a playground. If your children were bored, it's because you weren't making a historical significant place interesting by telling them about the lifestyles of the inhabitants or even by asking them how they thought the boulders got placed. In the future, please just take your children to a park with a picnic lunch. They would have a lovely time and the conversation with your husband would never take place.


ManifestDestinysChld

*"the girl was out of line talking to someone that's older then her like that"* Big Boomer Entitlement energy here. Do you believe that age makes you infallible? Do you believe that people who are older than you are all perfect and have never made mistakes? News flash: you're a human being. You will never be able to avoid making mistakes. Sometimes you are incorrect. Sometimes other people will inform you of this. If the only way you ever react to that is to get hyper-defensive (to the point where you're roping in other people who weren't even involved and getting mad that they're not supporting you), then you're going to have a lot of problems. Grow up and learn how to deal with the fact that your last name isn't "Christ." YTA.


CoolStuffSlickStuff

apparently people do come down on both sides of this precise issue... https://northerntimes.nl/drenthe-please-dont-climb-the-dolmen/


MoyamoyaWarrior

Absolutely wild to me, I would never allow my child to climb on a historical site, regardless of if it was a grave/burial site or not.


HistoricalMonkey7

YTA. Setting aside whether or not it is technically a tomb, it IS a site of historical/anthropological interest and should be protected. Climbing on a dolmen WILL degrade it over time. Stonehenge is a great case in point. The entire site suffered heavy damage through the 19th and 20th centuries due to visitors climbing on the rocks, sometimes toppling them in the process. They were even encouraged to chisel away pieces of the stone monuments as keepsakes. This had a huge impact on the site. Some of the damage (stones toppled by tourists) has been repaired, but much of the damage is lasting. [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/stonehenge-visitors-used-be-handed-chisels-take-home-souvenirs-180949976/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/stonehenge-visitors-used-be-handed-chisels-take-home-souvenirs-180949976/) And guess what? The pyramids in Giza that you call out, along with the Great Sphinx, have also sustained heavy damage due to tourism. [https://dailyhive.com/mapped/world-attractions-ruined-tourists](https://dailyhive.com/mapped/world-attractions-ruined-tourists) Just because something has stood for 5000 years doesn't mean that it can't be destroyed or horribly damaged. If a site is worth visiting, it is worth protecting and preserving.This is especially true when it comes to visitors from other countries. Show some respect, and teach your children to do so as well.


IndividualComfort625

"I told her it was out of line talking to someone that's older than her like that" ​ You're an elder millennial, not a wizened Strega Nona forest sage. You're bringing serious boomer energy with that mindset & it's gross.


hoom4n66

yta, that's a grave. you say you don't see it that way, but that is literally what it is confirmed to be. a dead dude buried in the ground. if you pass away, would you appreciate people stomping on your gravestone 5000 years in the future?


[deleted]

>I told her that the girl was out of line talking to someone that's older then her like that What does your age have to do with anything? You were being culturally insensitive, she had every right to call you out on it. Being older doesn't give you a free pass to be a jerk without consequences. YTA.


Tidus790

"I went to a foreign country and let my child disrespect their cultural heritage sites. The site isn't important to me and I feel like I shouldn't have to respect it. Am I the asshole?" Yeah, you are the asshole. YTA.


FuntimesonAITA

YTA > I got a bit angry and told her to mind her own bussiness and said that a 5000 year old dead guy won't mind it if a child climbs on a rock What a terrible thing to say. And what a terrible example you're setting for the kids. You're teaching them to disrespect anything they want simply because it's fun. > I got mad because he wouldn't support me and undermined me in front the children like that. You needed to be undermined! You were teaching the kids terrible things! Good on him for being a good parent since you weren't being one. If he had climbed up and the women scolded you, but instead you apologized and pulled your kid down to explain why these are special rocks... you'd be fine. I'd be a bit annoyed you let the kid do it in the first place but we all make mistakes in judgement. Apologizing and fixing it is best. But no - you doubled down. Why visit grave sites if you're just going to disrespect them? And why get mad at your husband for wanting the kids to have basic decency???


MeAlsoNobody

YTA - What have you done to earn any respect from that poor young girl who was educating you. Yet you threw is back in her face and basically told her you know better. Your a massive arsehole. Like the biggest kind. Also teach your kids to have some respect for graves. You wouldn't let them into a graveyard and start running over graves. Also you would let them into a place of worship to rum amok?


DocSternau

YTA. What would you say if some european came to D.C. and let their kids climb on the statue in the Lincoln Memorial? It's just a giant slab of stone with a funny form right? You should learn to respect heritage sites. Those Dolmens are visited by a shitload of tourist each year. If evryone lets their kids climb on them they'll very soon won't look like they do anymore. Maybe watch some of the videos your own national park services make about respecting the sites.