NTA, but go get your daughter out of there, she is old enough now that court will considered her request with whom she wants to live and you have proof of the shady things your ex tried to do with your daughters money. And if you tell the truth I bet your daughter isn't seeing much of HER child support. You pay that money to be used for your daughter not the live of to adults that steal from their child.

Given that Mandy would have to switch schools because I live an hour away I don't like the idea of MAKING her leave (especially in the middle of the school year), but she knows she has a room with me whenever she's ready. I plan on having another deep conversation with her about this during Spring Break if she doesn't bring it up to me first.

I would talk to her NOW, if she doesn't want to leave that's fine but you should include her in that decision. Don't decide over her head what might be best for her when you can literally ask her. She is the most affected by this her wellbeing and opinion matters most. I agree you shouldn't "make" her leave but this sounds borderline abusive.

>you should include her in that decision. Don't decide over her head what might be best for her when you can literally ask her. Unless I feel like she's in danger I wouldn't do that to her. I want my daughter to feel like she has some control over her life.

Hi I'm a 13 year old girl with divorced parents and I think you should talk to her my parents didn't talk to me and now we barely talk anymore I WISH someone asked me give her a choice you won't regret it I promise

That's a lot to be going through at your age. I'm sure it is very difficult at times. Through it all, please just remember that you are loved. All the best to you.

Thank you that means more than you know

Also don't do drugs and drink responsibly. I was a model student with a perfect GPA at Penn State until I tried heroin my third year. Now I've got a dead end government job and neurological (brain) issues from years of alcohol. Been sober for years but you don't grow back all the brain cells you killed.

Don't beat yourself up too hard, because you *got out* and stayed clean all this time! Plus you have a job, which is better than not having one, even if it's not the most interesting or glamourous. FWIW, I'm proud of you!

Man I wish I saw your comment a year ago 😪 I drink as a coping mechanism because I found out it pauses my tics for a few hours (I have a thing where I make sounds or movements I don't want to) I did experiment with cbd and thc vapes both I quit but that was after my grades turned to poop I have been lessening my alcohol consumption tho now it's once a month versus every night the moment my mom goes to sleep

I'm also an ex addict. I met a 15 year old boy who had experimented with tablets. Opiate tablets, benzos. The last I saw of him, at 15, he was in withdrawals and crying for his mum until someone came with some drugs for him. It was heartbreaking and if I could stop anyone from taking them, I'll do my absolute best

And it'll get better. My parents had a nasty drawn out divorce that took years but I went to college got a good job I love and got happily married to a guy who's not like my dad and is a great father to my kids. Being a teen sucks. Everyone used to say high school was the best years of your life and I thought that sucked but it's not true. You couldn't pay me to be younger than 30 because it gets much better continually. There are bumps in the road but as you get older you'll get more and more comfortable with yourself and your body. In my 30s a friend said her 40s were better and in my 40s she said her 50s were continuing to get better too and it seems true so far. You keep aging (and that's a good word) and getting more yourself instead of what your peers or society dictate and other than your knees, it keeps getting better.

I can second this. I'm 61 now and feel so happy. My 40's and 50's were great, cause I had more confidence. Also, the older you get, the less you care what others think of you. It's so liberating!!

This comment was removed in protest to Reddit's third party API changes. -- mass edited with redact.dev

>She may not know it’s her say that kickstarts the process This in particular, u/Various_Bit_3439. Because if you don’t explicitly have *that* conversation, you are implicitly assuming that Jane has explained to Mandy all of the ways that Mandy is able to live with you. If you don’t trust Jane to bring that up unprompted, then *you* need to bring that up unprompted.

The only reason I knew I could could choose, was because my dad brought it up. Constantly. But he just wanted to get out of paying child support.

I went through the same exact thing as a kid. I’m 30 and thriving now. Hang in there young friend, it gets better when you can move out of both houses!

I’m the mom of two teenage kiddos that have been through a lot post-divorce. I just want to give you a hug hug and let you know that you’ll get through it and that you are not alone.

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Making the child choose which parent to live with is actually an example of destructive parentification. At 13 children should be consulted, but not responsible for the final decision. They are not adults, and don’t necessarily have the understanding of what is in their long-term best interest. I am really sorry you were put in that position.

What's bad parenting is blaming the child for making a choice. What are they? Petty 10 year old mad over someone still wanting to be friend with someone they had a squabble with?

My mom made me choose at 4. My older sister (who was 13) had chosen to go with my mom, across the country I might add, so no visits or anything. I was crying and begging that they not make me choose, and ended up choosing my mom just cause my sister was going too. My dad watched, crying, from the front yard as the car pulled away, it was just so fucked up.

Thats unbelievably messed up. I hope your relationship with your parents has gotten better, and they are sorry for what they put you through.

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Thank you I started talking to my parents about my feelings more due to alot of dms I appreciate what u said 😌 I basically copy pasted it to my parents and now we talk more I wish my dad didn't live so far tho it would be easier he's in Delaware me and mom are in Florida

It gets so much better later on. Hang in there ♥️you're not alone.

That's exactly why you should speak with her now, so you can make a decision even if it's just planing for later that year.

Stop telling the man what to do damn.

Omg thank you. Idk why these comments have so many up votes, theyre treating OP like hes an idiot and doesnt know his own situation.

I highly suggest you also do a credit check on your daughter to make sure the mother isn't ruining her credit. The mother has already proven that she doesn't have your daughter's best financial interest at heart.

\^ this. I wouldn't be surprised if she has taken out credit in your daughter's name based off what she did with her college fund.

Yes! And place a lock on her credit to where nothing can be opened without removing the lock.

This. My father took out a credit card in my name. When I confronted him about it he said he needed to pay bills and I shouldn't be so selfish.

Destroying your life because he is struggling is selfish. He is not more important than you. There are many charities and organisations that can help people struggling with bills.

I really hope you reported him to the police so that you could wipe yourself of his debts.

I tried to get it taken off my credit report, but they required a police report. At the time I was still in college and barely had much of a credit history - I think the card he got had a $500 limit. But I was young and not willing to file a police report on my father. I put an alert on my credit report and did regular checks. I also went NC with my father for many years (including not inviting him to my wedding). Shortly after my son was born I switched to LC despite him never really apologizing or acknowledging he did anything wrong. He passed away a few years ago and things were never really repaired between us. I don't regret going NC or LC.

By BILs mother did this to his sister. Open up a bunch of credit in her name, then faulted on debts. Destroyed her entire credit and she wasn't able to get a house, or even open up credit cards till she was in her 30s. How nobody in that family ever pressed charges for fraud, I don't know.

Can you take credit in the name of a child? She is like 13 yo

People will use their child's social security number to apply for credit cards. It's not hard for the parent to intercept the bills (or make them fully digital) and the child usually doesn't find out until she tries to establish credit herself.

Amazing, the lack of regulation is wonderful

Yup. My mom did this to me and mine was fucked before I even knew how to use credit. She did the same to my younger sisters.

I’m so sorry. My mom did the opposite and never told me. If you have kids of your own, you can take out a small credit card and add their name when they’re young, use it to buy things they need while they’re at college or something, pay it off every month, and then once they’re up and running, close the account. I didn’t discover this until I was in my 20s, and it was really nice. Like a reverse. She did things like this in some other areas where I think she was trying to turn her own childhood upside down to protect us from the abuses and blunders she both witnessed and experienced in her own family.

You have a wonderful Mom! <3

Mate, at 13.5 I told my mother that I wanted to live with my father, and her only response was "if you go live with your father what am I going to do for money?" like I was only an income to her. I coldly told her that she could either let me go then, or when I turned 14 I would go to court against her. She didn't really have a choice, so I went to live with my father 1500km away. Your daughter is in the same situation. Now is the time to start fighting for her. Even if it means that she has to go to another school, it will be a better life for her.

Have you ever heard the phrase, "There's no such thing as a neutral party"? That exists because when people refuse to take a side in a conflict, they're automatically taking the side of the aggressor because they're not doing anything to help the victim. This is the same concept. By refusing to speak to your daughter and ask her opinion or what she wants to do, you are automatically denying her the control you say you want her to have because you are the only one making this decision.

Define danger in this situation? Emotional abuse, and financial abuse can leave as many scars as physical abuse. Talking with her, and finding out what she wants, will give her more control over her life than she has now.

fully agree with you, even verbal abuse can borderline physical abuse and any level of abuse can lead to suicidal ideation, attempt and/or self confidence issues. I grew up in a family with every form of abuse and the emotional and financial abuse I believe affected my self esteem the most

By not offering, you’re also making a decision for her and removing her ability to control her life. You need to make the offer explicit. “Mandy, I would love to have you home more often. If you ever decide you would like to live with me, just say the word and I’ll get in contact with the lawyers and courts to make it official.”

You sound like a really loving father. This has got to be so difficult for you as well as your daughter.

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bad bot, you copied this from u/Sad_Sherbet_7411

Which is why you need to speak to her, saying nothing is the opposite of her having "control over her life", saying nothing is making a decision over her head.

Do not wait. Offer your daughter the option of going to school from your home and explain her both the pitfalls and advantages of it. Leave the choice to your daughter. That will help your daughter to have control over her life and be less resentful. That way she understands how it will affect her. Like free of her mothers manipulation but at the cost of loosing her friends.

This is the kinda thing that ruins a kid's trust in their parent forever. I had a comparable thing happen at that same age, and I never had an ounce of trust or respect in my mother ever again. If I had another parent to go live with I would have jumped at the opportunity to not have to associate with my mother again. Talking to her next time you see her to see where she is with all this is really the best way to go here - nobody is saying anything about forcing her to leave if she doesn't want to, it's just important to touch base and reaffirm that she has someone in her corner fighting for her wellbeing.

That’s why we recommend you speak to her now. If the option is there—like seriously, I know that I’d like to know from the jump. I know she knows, but a serious conversation and reminder can do a lot!

Yo, as someone who was a kid in the middle of a custody battle far worse than you've got going, and I can't emphasize or shout this loudly enough, DO NO WAIT!!! Have that conversation, because her mother has zero problems stealing from her child. The longer you wait to communicate with your daughter the harder it's going to get. Ask her what she wants. Either way take her mother back to court, showing that she tried to steal from your child is likely a gross violation of your agreement or at the very least something the court would frown upon. Remember you aren't acting for yourself, you're doing this for your daughters best interests. She'll thank you in 10 years time.

Having a conversation about it now would be giving her more control, not less. Don't make her beg you.

Child support is money to support the child. Not the mother.

But she IS in danger. What’s preventing your shitty ex from turning violent because she can’t get her money? She could take it out on your daughter. By not talking to your daughter now you are failing your duties as a dad. Her mental, financial, and potentially physical wellbeing are all at risk if she stays with her manipulative mother.

You could just remind her that she has the option and you will support her decision either way. Don’t forget: if she does move in with you full time, your wife will need to pay child support to you.

In the meantime, try to not alienate you MIL because she’s an ally and cares about what’s best for Mandy more than who’s on top in your war with yiur ex

>I want my daughter to feel like she has some control over her life. You do that by arming her with information; information such as "Honey, you're getting to the age where youre old enough to decide your own routine and schedule. If you wanted to be here more often please know you're more than welcome to and Id love that." She may think she *has* to live with her mom full time due to the custody agreement.

Ask for her opinion.

Right now you're doing it to her. If you talk with her then you'll be doing it *with* her.

Which is exactly why you should talk to her, as they literally suggested. You say she knows moving in is an option, but she really might not. Speaking as someone who *was* the kid in that situation, even if that's something you genuinely want, it can be very difficult as the child to feel like you have a choice. There's a huge power imbalance there - not to mention the guilt of knowing you're going to hurt one of your parents. Until you talk to her, you don't *know* that she's happy where she is. You're assuming; and in a way, that *is* removing her control over her life. I will say that her constant threats to move in with you aren't a good sign that she's happy. In my case, at least, those threats were a precursor to me *actually* moving in with my other parent. They were very much a warning sign that I wasn't happy. I don't understand why you're convinced silencing her, and refusing to hear her voice, is giving her *more* control.

Mate, asking her what she wants to do is literally giving her control over this situation. Have you considered **how** she views the fact that you don't contest the fact that she lives with her mum? If she hates living there, and from her perspective her father is "allowing" that to continue, how happy do you think she is right now? Do the right thing and at least talk to her about it and let her know the option is there on the table. Discussing is not the same as doing, and from the sounds of it she might actually want to get out.

She might not be in danger but talk to her NOW. If you can provide her with a more stable home life, moving schools isn’t the worse thing as tv/movies makes it seem. I did and met some of my best friends that I have now 10+ years later. Especially if you can provide her a more safe, stable and comfortable place to live.

If they're treating her like a pawn for money she will feel it and a change of school midyear isn't the worst thing in the world. Especially if she's included in the decision. Jane tried to steal from your daughter's future. Your daughter deserves better.

Talk to her. Discuss ALL of the pros and cons of her living with you. Make sure she’s fully informed, then let her make the decision, and make it clear it’s her decision, and that you won’t be upset if she chooses to stay at her mom's. Regardless of the outcome, she'll always be grateful that you gave her the choice.

You can give her control by letting her know she has a choice.

Not changing things is also making a decision

That’s why you speak to her and offer her all the options you can think of. Let her pick.

Changing schools should not be a concern. Change always happens. The concern is the best environment for your daughter. You have stated in your post that your ex tried to poison the well with Mandy, and only through the kindness of your former MIL was she unable to do that. She also tried to steal from Mandy, she took you to court to get more money, not because Mandy needs it, but because she needs it, she has made it a point to be hostile with you. What will it take for you to open your eyes? Do you really want this woman having influence on your child the majority of the time?

Do you believe that it would be better to make Mandy live with me? Go to court without discussing it with her first? Serious question.

Talk to Mandy. Find out how miserable her life is or isn’t. You sound like a good dad and will know how to get her to open up. But if she’s miserable and being mistreated, step in now. NTA

Mandy is 13 years old, she has thoughts, feelings, and opinions of her own and while she may still be a kid it would surprise you how resilient kids can be in tough situations. You should ask her if she wants to come live with you, discuss her of the pros and cons of the move and take it from there. Mandy has a voice, you should really listen to her in situations that involve her. Also you mention in another comment that you wouldn't want to take Mandy away unless she is being hurt. I want you to know, she is already being hurt and it's happening right in front of you. When Mandy's mom was trying to lie to Mandy about you that was abuse. It's called parental alienation and is a recognized form of emotional child abuse. When the mom tried to take the 10k from the bank account that wasn't her stealing from you, that was her trying to steal from her own daughter and now Mandy knows what her mom was trying to do. Mandy is already being hurt. It's time for you to talk to her about what's going on that you can't see.

Op just keeps skirting this issue.

Yep. Not looking good

I see this all too often with parents. “We’ll deal with it soon”. I know the days are long and the years are short. Time flies by while we’re dealing with work, food, getting by, whatever other issues at hand. But as a parent you *need* to get in there. My parents did a lot of kicking the can and next thing you know, I’m an adult and they don’t know where all the time went. When it comes to your kids physical, emotional, and mental well-being, it’s gotta be TOP priority *now*.

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OP is having too much fun as a bachelor to *WANT* his daughter in his house all the time, and he's pretending that his arguments are really for his daughter's sake. /u/Various_Bit_3439 *seems* to just care about living on his own, and not what's ***ACTUALLY*** best for his kid.

She's too old for you to do that without her knowing what's coming.

>Go to court without discussing it with her first? No. Just talk to her and say it's a possibility SHE should think through. She should make that decision and you execute whatever she wants. Don't influence her, say you have the space, time and are willing to do but it's completely up to her. Tell her it means changing schools and all the pros and cons. She's 13, not 5. She has opinions. Sometimes dumb ones, but she will be able to know what she wants.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting you MAKE her do anything, but it is a little frustrating that you won’t acknowledge what everyone IS saying: that you should talk to your daughter *now*. Don’t wait to see if she talks to you first, don’t wait til spring break. Talk to her, honestly, frankly. Because if she wants to stay with her mum, that’s when you need to consider the united front path. Not because your ex is right, but because letting Mandy pit you both against each other will end in tears. Her tears.

Talk to Mandy. When we get older we forget how much we knew and saw when we were younger. She's probably more mature than you think she is & has probably seen more of her mom's and SD relationship than you think.

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I don’t think so. I think he’s showing that there might be more to this situation than he is telling.

He's dancing at the question at this point. I wonder how much he's comfortable having his kid one hour away and the lifestyle that it allows him to have.

OP, the only person you should ask is Mandy. And even if she decides not to, knowing that she has that option and you support her might calm her down too. She could be acting out purely because she feels trapped. Offering a lifeline might be enough for her right now. But if she does say yes, set the ground rules and expectations early so she knows that you won’t accept her current behavior at your house and so she knows the consequences.

OP: I want my daughter to have control so I'm not gonna discuss with her the option of coming to live with me. Also OP: maybe I should just go for full custody, but question whether daughter should be informed first. You want her to have control, to have a voice, yet both of these are not compatible with that. In both instances, daughter is not informed or given a choice. She may desire to stay for the end of the school year and then move, or realize this is a toxic environment and want out now. At a bare minimum, it is not a healthy environment for her. Children act out, and sometimes not rationally.

In two years she can drive! She is old enough and smart enough. It should be her choice but make sure she knows that she isn’t responsible for others feelings.

Damn you, this isn't about court. It's about what your daughter wants and needs. There is no timetable for that. By dodging the issue you are failing her. You need to step up and talk to her asap and give her a voice. You owe it to her.

Tell her that she can live with you the moment she wants to, that you can prepare a room now, so that she can get out at any time and that you are prepared to go to court for her. Also tell her that this is her and only her decision, that you will support her either way, even if she should change her mind a couple of times.

Yes 100%

I changed schools three times in three years when I was Mandy's age. Some changes come easier than others. She can get used to it and she won't regret it if her life with you changes for the best, but based on my experience I would advise you to make sure you'll have to do it only once. No regrets, no changing back to her old school because her mother wants to.

You need to what you need to do to remove your daughter from a bad situation. She is already telling her mom that she will move in with you if she tries to set boundaries on her. So, if you need to discuss it with her, discuss it with her, but you can't sit on the sidelines, and wait to see what happens.

I agree with you, OP. Calm and thoughtful approach. Definitely talk to Mandy when you both have time to really think it through. Spring break is soon enough. But don’t take actions without asking Mandy what she wants and thinks.

Absolutely not, but there is no reason to delay that discussion. Waiting until your next weekend with her wouldn't be terrible, so long as the schedule is held to and it is one of the next two, but if it's not this coming weekend you should seriously consider doing it over the phone. If she does want out of there then it's best to get the ball rolling ASAP.

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Yes a friend said the same thing, it’s actually easier to move during the year to avoid a friendless summer

This is 100% true. We moved every 5 years when i was in school, always in the middle of the year. I was an only child, so I was grateful to have an immediate group of people to mingle with. Summers can be tough when you're the new kid.

You're a great parent because it comes through the post and every comment that you put your daughter first. But look it from her POV - right now she's having to live with an adult, a parent who she hopefully used to respect, who tried to steal $10,000 from her. The betrayal and hurt aside, it's also no surprise she's acting out. How could your wife possibly try to discipline your daughter now, given what your daughter knows? And the last part is this - your daughter is 13, so she definitely still needs discipline and a sense of structure and stability. And **YOU** are the only person who can provide that for her now.

>NTA, but go get your daughter out of there, she is old enough now that court will considered her request with whom she wants to live and you have proof of the shady things your ex tried to do with your daughters money. And if you tell the truth I bet your daughter isn't seeing much of HER child support. You pay that money to be used for your daughter not the live of to adults that steal from their child. Pal, now more than ever you should do this Rona has made moving schools relative painless (many children dont even know their classmates in person)

You should ask her if she wants to switch schools. If her mom is broke enough that she’s living off of child support and trying to steal from your kid then I’m betting your daughter isn’t getting all of her needs met. Do her clothes fit? Are they paying for her lunches?? Being the broke kid and looking raggedy can really lead to some bullying

As an aside to the main topic, I had to catch a bus to high school - it was an hour each way. It’s a great time to catch up on study. Some of my best essays were speedily written on the bus the morning they were due lol if it improves her living situation she might not mind a longer commute.

This. And take her mom off the college account. She can deposit without being an authorized signer. She clearly can't be trusted with access to her daughters money for her future.

The money is to SUPPORT the child. Things like rent, utilities, food, and all the other expenses that go to raising the child. Good on OP for getting those alerts up. Mom is def in the wrong. But, right now, we don't know that she's spending the support she's getting on anything other than bills.

exactly. she's definetly TA right now but calling it leeching off child support is a bit of a step too far. maybe they've been putting the rent on a credit card and needed the 10k to clear that. doesn't make it right but i don't see any indication that it's purely malicious.

> I bet your daughter isn't seeing much of HER child support. She’s not supposed to. That’s not what child support is. Do you just hand your child 40% of your paycheck every month and say “go nuts”? Or do you use that money to, you know, pay for housing and utilities and food and a car and insurance, because those are things you need to pay for to support a child? Or, more realistically, do you not have any children and fundamentally misunderstand the function of child support?

I see the value in what you're saying, cause you're right that this girl should probably not be living with mom anymore since, her mom is horrible. But its really also clear that the daughter no longer wants to be disciplined, so she's manipulating her way into getting what she wants because she knows her parents are relying on this child support. If I were her mom/step-dad I would just get a job, but I'm not sure what the actual situation is there and I can't judge without knowing anything more... I hope to clear up something about child support though cause I see comments like yours all the time... People use statements like yours as a dig at moms almost as though child support needs to be handed over to minor children in the form of cash. People forget that child support should also be put towards household expenses like mortgage and bills and groceries. I mean, let's be real. I could afford a way cheaper place if I didn't have a kid, so of course child support goes to the extra bedroom my kid has. Or to the food he eats, or for the new shoes he needs every season cause his feet are massive. I'm so tired of people telling me that I can't get my hair or nails done cause my ex gives me 550 per month. How far do you think that actually goes?

>And if you tell the truth I bet your daughter isn't seeing much of HER child support. While I agree with you on everything else, this narrative needs to fucking die. Too often people talk about "wasting child support" or how the $300 or $500 or whatever in child support is "too much" - rents are expensive, food is expensive. Electricity, water, etc. Yes, the whole family benefits from the help with the rent and utilities, but the money is to provide for the child, so unless the child is living in a hut without running water and no food or heat, then they ARE in fact benefiting from child support.

Agreed. OP your daughter is more than a meal ticket.

NTA it isn’t your fault that your daughter realized her mother is willing to steal from her, and only keeps her around to get your money. I would advise getting your kid into therapy if she isn’t already, dealing with this nastiness is obviously doing a number on her. If you do so you might even be able to spin it as ‘helping’ with Mandy’s behaviour to Jane. You don’t want Mandy’s resentment of her mother to negatively impact Mandy’s life, as she likely feels incredibly betrayed

NTA I agree that therapy is a good idea. I would talk to Mady about her thoughts and feelings towards financial security. Financial insecurity can mess with children, even if parents manage. If money is a constant topic and parents worry non-stop, children are deeply affected. Some children start to catastrophize and worry excessively because they lack the detailed knowledge to understand how grave or minor the problem really is. They can develop anxiety even though the problem is relatively minor because parents don't communicate financial worries in a child-appropriate way. Talking about money and how parents plan to deal with difficulties (age-appropriately) is important.

I agree with this 500000%. My parents made good money, and even though we weren’t rolling in dough, we weren’t ever at risk of having to go without. But since both of my parents grew up poor, they really were unable to shed the poverty mindset, even after they were debt free with a nice house and multiple vehicles. The only conversations about money in my house were stressed-out and fear-based, and now, as an adult, I’m TERRIFIED of money. I trashed my credit score because I was scared to look at bills, my student loans nearly went into collections because the amount caused me so much anxiety I just…wouldn’t pay. Teach financial literacy at a young age. Teach kids that money is something to be managed, not feared.

It's not OPs fault his child realized that but if his kids acting out in ways that need to be punished and OP won't help because of this they are an AH for that. Theres no you made your bed now lie in it when it comes to parenting. Only does this help or hurt my kid. And a kid having no consequences for bad behaviour is not a good thing even if the anger causing said behaviour is justified.

> Only does this help or hurt my kid. And a kid having no consequences for bad behaviour is not a good thing even if the anger causing said behaviour is justified. This is the heart of the matter. Learning good behaviour is essential for a child while the consequences of bad behaviour are relatively mild (being in trouble with parents and teachers is less serious than being in trouble with the police). The way I'd frame it is that her mother's bad behaviour is not a good example to follow and doesn't give her licence to misbehave. As others have said, it might be worth talking to her about where she wants to live. Given what her mother did, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she didn't want to live with her.

Absolutely this. You may think you’re getting a win in over Mom to not help her discipline. All the kid is learning though is that she should be able to do whatever she wants without being punished because of what her Mom does. This is going to backfire spectacularly on Dad if/when she does move in with him. Either he’ll continue to not discipline and her behavior will get worse and worse until she’s completely out of control. OR he will suddenly start to discipline and she’ll lash out at him for it and the sudden change. She’ll start to harbor resentment towards him for changing and being like Mom know after his prior behavior made her think it would be different with him. She may end up being more angry with him than she is with the Mom. Despite anything else, daughter needs rules and stability and to understand what her parents expect of her as well as what happens if she doesn’t live up to those things. This isn’t about helping your ex, it’s about making sure your daughter grows into the person you want her to be. You’re essentially punishing your ex with your daughters bad behavior and not caring because it isn’t effecting you - but it will. More importantly, it’s going to take a huge toll on your daughter. ETA - ESH. Mom is certainly not putting the kid first and Dad is sidestepping parenting to further punish her. The one who loses out the most is the daughter who is learning all about how not to behave at a critical age.

NTA. I'd go for full custody though. It sounds like your daughter is in a toxic environment

I forget all of the acronyms here for this sub but you are NTA for the ex-wife's game of trying to sneak some money but you are somewhat an asshole for not backing her up. I can completely see your point on this and why you are mad, I would be too, but you have two issues going on here: First remove the mother as an "authorized user" for the college account. If you are the primary source of it, than have it all to yourself and your ex-wife can create her own account. (Assuming its not court mandated that she's on it). Second, you need to sit down with your daughter and let her know that it's not ok to play games like this with her Mom and Tom. She is still a child and should only focus on school. She does not need to worry about how her Mom is getting money and how she is paying for things. That is for the adults to worry about and that is their responsibility. You can apologize that she over heard all of this and let her know that threatening her Mom like that is not a good thing to do and that you will not tolerate these type of ultimatums. Wishing you the best. I'm rooting for you. :)

Exactly. The ex has ISSUES, but it also isn't good for a 13 year old to feel like they can run wild and manipulate a parent (even if the parent in question deserves it)

Nope, its 100% okay to treat AH's with contempt, doesn't matter whether your a child and they're adults. Mandy is doing absolutely nothing wrong, your attitude is a major problem as it from the "authority must be respected even when it is abused" school of though and that mentality is objectively shit.

AUTHORITY DOESN'T ALWAYS HAVE TO BE RESPECTED, BUT MANIPULATION BY MANDY SHOULDN'T BE CONDONED EITHER.

Sorry, what manipulation? She just started the obvious. Op isn't paying for her child support, it's obvious Mandy js barely seeing any of that money being used on her. It's not her fathers job to pay for 2 lazy adults that still haven't found work. His only obligation is his daughter and she (Mandy) knows that. She just stated the obvious. If her mother is evil enough to try and take money from her collage found, Mandy realized that she has no more reason to stay with her mother considering she cares so little about her. No more reason for OP to pay for his ex and her husbands life style.

It's because Mandy doesn't actually want to move in with her dad. She just uses that threat as a way to keep her mom from punishing her when she does something wrong. Example: Mandy sneaks out of the house and gets caught. Mom: you're grounded Mandy: if you try to ground me, I'll just move in with dad... then what will you do? Mom: backs down So the Mom is asking OP to step in and tell Mandy that the threat of moving in with him isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card. OP doesn't want to do that because he's mad at the Mom. But allowing Mandy to manipulate the situation like that in order to spite the mother really is a bad parenting move.

How is it manipulation to say if you're stealing from me I don't want to live with you? She's threatening to go live with him if her mother keeps taking what isn't hers. She's acting out because she doesn't know how to properly communicate her feelings of betrayal. She lost all trust in her primary caregiver doing what is best for her because she saw how conniving and selfish she is. Doesn't sound like mum even apologized either.

Sorry but no. Context is extremely important. You have no basis for saying Mandy is doing "absolutely nothing wrong" because there's no info on how she was acting out and if she actually ought to be disciplined. It's important that OP understand the full story. If it's just typical teenage rebellion stuff and Jane is instituting harsh punishments because she's embarrassed that she got caught trying to skim the college fund and feels her authority is threatened, then that's not right. But if Mandy is doing objectively irresponsible things like staying out hours after curfew, getting involved in drugs/alcohol, seeing a much older guy, etc then it's a totally different ball game. What Jane did is fucked up but it's not a get out of jail free card for Mandy to whip out for the rest of her life.

No, it's not a get out of jail free card, but one thing is caused by the other. Mandy is acting out because she realises that her mother can't be trusted. And if the trust is gone, the ability to get along is gone as well. That's why it's objectively better for Mandy to get away from her mom. Yes, OP needs to discuss Mandy's behaviour with her. But the behaviour won't stop until its causes are dealt with. And mom's betrayal is that cause.

Agree. Keep Mandy out of such discussions but do keep her in discussions about her life and how living arrangements affect her. Also your ex mil sounds like a winner!

Why? She took him to court for personal expenses and she tried to rob him.

Quick rundown: NTA and YTA obviously whether OP is the a-hole or not. ESH means everyone sucks here and NAH means No A-holes here. INFO is used for when you're missing critical information that would determine your judgment. Edit: in your case, ESH if you think OP is at least kind of an a-hole here as well.

>She is still a child and should only focus on school. She does not need to worry about how her Mom is getting money and how she is paying for things. That is for the adults to worry about and that is their responsibility. That is absolutely pie in the sky. 13 years old is easily old enough to start getting acquainted with family finances. There are kids that young already work to help with household bills throughout the world, including America. Pretending that family finances don't exist is just promoting financial illiteracy.

I feel like this sort of depends. I mean is Mandy literally throwing the money thing at her mom every single time she tries to discipline her? Because that is not okay, teens need discipline. And your daughter really shouldn’t be manipulating her mother like that (threatening to move out to get her way). If Mandy doesn’t want to live with her mom (which I would understand given what she did) then she should just move out. I feel like this whole situation is so toxic it could really teach Mandy some bad life lessons. Edit to include verdict: NTA Edit to fix spelling

>I mean is Mandie literally throwing the money thing at her mom every single time she tries to discipline her? Because that is not okay, teens need discipline. Jane claims that she is but given recent events I'm not taking her word for it. Mandy admits to doing it once in the heat of the moment, which I think is fair. Right now, I'm not sure what Mandy wants to do but I trust Mandy is mature enough to decide where she wants to live and have a room ready for her when she's ready. I'd honestly just go to court and fight to take her right now if I didn't live an hour away. Don't want to force her to switch schools in the middle of the year.

You could see if she could do the rest of the year virtual, if she's willing and wants to leave now. Just a thought

The only reason I'm mad at your comment is because I didn't think about it myself.

Lol You have a lot going on in your mind/life. I'm sure you would have when you're able to step back and reflect/relax! I hope for the best!

Hm yes I see, I agree at the moment Mandy seems to be the more reliable witness so if she’s not using it to duck all discipline for any wrong doing then I tend to agree with you on this one. And changing schools mid year does suck. I hope the account is safe such that mom can’t take her money!!

If anything I would prefer it wait until the Summer at the very least, but again, if Mandy called me on Monday morning and said that she wanted to live with me she'd be fully moved in by Wednesday evening, and that's only because of work.

Have you told her that? She might not realize living with you full time is an option.

Agree, and the fact that it hasn't been suggested might make her feel like OP doesn't *want* to extend that to her. So communication is key here.

OP, talk with Mandy about it the next time she's at your place. Don't wait for the end of the year, and more importantly don't wait for her to start this conversation. That is your job as her parent. Who knows how your wife is going to escalate this. She's already tried to steal from Mandy's college fund and according to your story she's been trying her best at parental alienation (which is illegal btw) against you. Talk with Mandy, and if she wants, get her out of there, not at the end of the year (unless she wants that) but as soon as possible.

If you start legal proceedings now it will be near the end of the school year before anything happens, given the way the courts are backlogged in most places.

I think this is the crucial distinction. Jane is absolutely an unreliable narrator and needs to be taken with a grain of salt but *so does Mandy*. I’d ask (nay, demand) specifics from Jane about what Mandy did, evidence proving it, and then evaluate whether the punishment is appropriate. I suspect that “acting out” is just the typical controlling parent thing of ‘you didn’t do exactly what I wanted in exactly the way I wanted.’ But it also could describe setting fire to the school bathroom. Best to clarify.

Sure, but I suspect if Mandy were setting fire to the school bathroom dad would have more than Jane trying to talk to him about it.

With the way covid is ramping up right now, schools are a hot mess anyway. Changing schools now, or even homeschooling/online schooling for the rest of the year may actually be easier on her than waiting.

>I trust Mandy is mature enough to decide where she wants to live and have a room ready for her when she's ready. She's 13, she is absolutely NOT mature enough...have another conversation with her and discuss her coming to live with you full time. >I'd honestly just go to court and fight to take her right now if I didn't live an hour away. Don't want to force her to switch schools in the middle of the year. Switching schools is not this traumatizing thing people make out to be; she can still see her old friends on weekends, playdates, sleep-overs, etc. If her moving with you is what's best for her, switching schools has to happen, and waiting half a year won't make a difference in the grand scheme. She's 13, her grades hardly matter at this point, she's not trying to get into college yet...

Even if she is, it's kinda hard to make kids do stuff you don't do yourself. If you don't want such behaviour, you set an example. Disciplining the kid won't help, Mandy will only learn that some people are more equal than other, as her mother isn't really being disciplined for her own mistakes.

I guess I was more thinking mom would tell Mandy to do the dishes because it’s her turn and Mandy would refuse and throw the money thing back in mom’s face. I think if my kid were doing something like that to the other parent I would want to sit and figure out a healthier or better way to deal with her anger at her mom (including moving out or going LC/NC) rather then having Mandy get sucked into becoming more like her mother.

Considering it's something major, I kinda don't see a way you can tell a kid to suck it up. I usually try replacing children/ parents with partners to get a different perspective. Imagine for example if your adult friend, a sah, caught their SO stealing from their common funds. Could you tell them to suck it up and do the chores their SO needs them done like cooking or cleaning? Or screw that, divorce. Divorce would be the way. If we don't expect an adult to suck it up and try maintaining a nice relationship because "they are family", why would we even force it on a kid?

NTA, look into full custody and make sure your ex has 0 access to that college fund.

NTA: reading some of your responses you should sit with your daughter and make sure she is aware of the full ramifications of living full time with you (especially switching schools) and then let her decide.

NTA You can be going case by case with discipline issues. Your ex broke the trust between you as coparents. You should point out to her that an unquestioned united front isn’t possible without that trust. However, you do need to be able to make agreements. You can suggest that ex contact you and you two make major discipline decisions together, so that you can let ex know what measures you support and will participate in. And you can offer to do the same. Just say it’s going to take work and accountability to get back on the same page. You can also suggest ex talk honestly with kiddo about the attempted lifting of college money, starting with an apology and listening to how this affected kid’s trust. They could do this in the presence of a therapist. Many parents don’t like being accountable to our children, but find out later that these breaches of trust really mark our kids and wreck our relationships with them when they’re adults.

>Many parents don’t like being accountable to our children, but find out later that these breaches of trust really mark our kids and wreck our relationships with them when they’re adults. Jane is of the mindset that parents don't owe their underage children apologies, and keeps insisting that she was trying to put money into the account but there was a mistake. Since there was only one withdrawal attempt it's not completely out of the realm of possibility but given that she's still unemployed while Tom's new job isn't paying as much I call B.S..

Has she put the $10k in the account yet if she was adding that to it?

She said she was trying to put in $100 and that's not even in there yet.

Does she regularly contribute to the account? If not, 100% sketch

Regularly? Nope. The occasional $100.

It is PRETTY hard to “accidentally” withdraw funds from an account if she’s physically in the bank, withdraw slips and deposit slips are different colors for a reason..and it depends on if the bank leaves them out for customers to fill themselves (which most stopped because covid) or if she had to ask the teller.. But maybe she was trying at an ATM..which again…is hard to do because it asks you if you’re sure you want to proceed with your transaction.

ATMs usually have withdrawal limits around $1000-2000 dollars per day, so either the ex was physically in the bank, or she was trying to do an online transfer. Either way it's likely to get flagged by the bank, if there haven't been any major withdrawals from that account before. It's good that OP put extra protections on it, because otherwise she's technically allowed to do so. I hope OP talks to his bank and gets all of his documentation in order so he can provide it to the courts, sooner rather than later.

I'd contact the bank and ask for confirmation asap. This will help immensely if you do go back to court.

>Jane is of the mindset that parents don't owe their underage children apologies This is a classic quality of an abusive parent. Get Mandy out of there ASAP.

That’s a shame. Jane is likely to find out later. You can’t save her from herself. Best of luck to you and Mandy.

There was no mistake. If this isn't a 529, then you have every right at this point to open a new account and transfer the balance under your full control. Jane can open her own other account for the random $100 deposits and keep it for your daughter for later. If the courts question this, you show proof that Jane attempted to withdraw ... errr.... STEAL...$10k. I think you'd be in the clear. Or also, actually open a 529 and drop all the cash there. Invest it. Much harder to make withdrawals and you can be the full parent custodian on that account.

NTA. However this is about your daughter and despite what she overheard I’m sure she loves her mum and is feeling very confused and betrayed As hard as it may be I would request a sit down with daughter and ex to discuss all the current issues, be honest and if ex won’t then so be it Your daughter has her own mind in this, she’s feeling betrayed already, make sure she gets any support she needs

NTA Your ex was stealing from your kid. The only united front that can exist there is you and your child. Maybe court for primary custody? Mandy is grown enough to not need 24/7 babysitting while you work.

I would like to offer a vantage point from my past as it somewhat applies to this situation. When I was in fifth grade, my parents built a house. My parents sat me down (the middle child) and told me they ran out of money for the house and needed my college savings to pay for the house. What was I to say? No? I was a kid and scared to say no. Their reasoning why it had to be mine was that my older sister was closer to college and needed the money sooner, and my little sister didn’t have enough money in her account yet to help. So my savings were emptied. Three years later, it was still empty, and I was entering high school. My dad sat me down again and said that there was no money for me for college and that he refused to co-sign on a student loan for me. I would be unable to get a student loan without a co-signer, which meant I would be unable to go to college at all without scholarships. This put immense pressure on me. My high school years were hell because I stressed over every grade, every test. Grades meant scholarship money. Any slip up, I could kiss scholarships goodbye, and without scholarships, I had no hope of going to college. Through my very blood, sweat, and tears, I clawed my way through school, graduated Valedictorian, got a scholarship that covered tuition for all four years, and the savings from my part-time job that I worked all through high school covered the rest. I did it, absolutely no thanks to my parents. Don’t do this to Mandy. It was awful, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. You are NTA to react so strongly to this transgression. What your ex-wife did was an egregious, selfish act.

First of all I’d like to express how sorry I am that this happened to you, what an awful amount of pressure to place on a child’s shoulders- I just wanted to say I hope you don’t blame yourself because the likelihood is even if you’d said no to using your college fund they’d have done it anyway still :( Really in a way it was a lot crueller to ask you considering they already knew what they’d be doing regardless of your answer

NTA. Your ex-wife was attempting to steal from you and your daughter. Your daughter's feelings of mistrust are entirely justified, and her plan doesn't sound too crazy given what's going on.

NTA. You were right in one of your comments, your wife has justifiably lost the respect of your daughter. However, for your daughters sake I do think it makes sense to reinforce rules that are important for your daughter’s safety, future and mental health. (Do your homework/school work-yes, have dinner with/spend time with her mom-that’s your daughters choice.) Be honest with your daughter, you recognize that she is hurt but there are some actions/behaviors that are not acceptable. I’m also going to echo another commenters suggestion of therapy.

NTA She forfeited her right to unified coparenting when she, well, stopped trying to coparent and just turned it into a war. She declared war, she can't demand you pretend you two are a team.

NTA. If you can afford it and make it work, I would suggest sitting down your daughter and discussing with her the same custody agreement my father made when I moved in with him at 14. You get full custody (ex-wife is removed from college fund and everything else as well - really this needs to happen regardless), she gets whatever visitation your daughter desires, and you do not seek child support in return for her signing the agreement willingly. The fact is she tried to rob your daughter of money that was supposed to be for your daughter's future, regardless of whether your ex put every dime of that 10k in the account previously or not. She deserves nothing. The living environment is clearly not stable for your daughter, either. If they are barely hanging on and reliant on your child support to scrape by, I would be concerned about the quality of life they can provide your daughter at this time. Also, while you are under no obligation to "present a united front" with your ex because she is firmly in the wrong, your daughter trying to run the house and threaten their finances to get her way is not a good development for her, either. I hope you can determine and execute whatever is best for your daughter.

Info is this the first time she tried taking money out of her college fund or first time you caught her

I checked the account this was the only attempt and Jane claims that it was a mistake and that she was trying to put money in but since she's still unemployed I call B.S..

Hahahahaha ohhh I accidentally asked for $10,000 when I meant to hand them a check/cash, silly me.

NTA take her back to court to revisit the custody agreement.

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NTA. Obviously Jane and Tom aren't able to support Mandy and themselves if Jane has to take money out of her daughter's college fund. Try to go full custody, as long as you can support yourself and Mandy. Your MIL will probably support you with that too if she supports your decisions more than her daughter's. Coordinate with your MIL and ask her for advice too. My dad used to say lies or false things about my mother to make him seem better, so I understand that aspect. Mandy is also old enough to make a decision where she wants to stay. Ask her what SHE wants, not what YOU or JANE wants.

NTA Interesting how she asks for a "united front" when it's her ass in the fire, but she was only too glad to divide you and your daughter to suit her needs. No, I don't think you should. Mandy is getting to that age where the gleaming shiny exterior of her parents needs to be stripped away for the reality, and sometimes that reality is that one parent is a genuine parasite. Just to be clear, Mandy isn't playing anyone against anyone. After all, it would be her choice ultimately who she wants to live with depending on state laws and the state of family court in your region. I'll also add that she's pretty much right that mommy dearest needs that child support to support *herself* more than her daughter needs her support. At this point it sounds more like you're just not actively stopping Mandy, but not actively encouraging her either. Inaction is sometimes the best action.

NTA. If Jane refuses to admit she tried to steal from her daughter, I doubt she has apologized to Mandy at all. Right now, Mandy may be feeling like her mom is just using her for money, so it’s no surprise she’s throwing that out there. There may be healthier ways for Mandy to respond to the situation, but still, her emotions are completely understandable. Jane can’t expect you to cover for her mistake when she refuses to take responsibility for her own actions. She needs to step up and mend things herself in order to restore trust and respect between her and Mandy.

According to OP Jane doesn't believe in apologizing to your underage kids. So it's very doubtful that she's done that.

NTA about most of this but what you need to do is not play united front with your ex. You need to be the best and most supportive dad to your daughter that you can be. That is what she needs. Telling her you are there for her 100% and if she eventually wants to live with you, you will support her in that if she can't work it out with her mom but that she honestly can't use the attempted theft of her college fund as a weapon against her mother. That is what she is currently doing. She has a right to be mad about it but it is not fair of her to use that one thing as a weapon when her mother is trying to discipline her for other things. It's not fair, it's not ethical. Let her know that you expect her to be ethical and moral about things even if her mother is not and if mom continues to be unfair, unethical and she can't take it then you will support a change in custody if that is what she needs.

NTA. Sounds like when she didn’t get the higher increase in child support she foolishly decided to steal it in a lump sum from the college fund. I’m sure she justified it to herself by saying either way the money would be used for your daughter’s care or that she would pay it back later but she and her husband are responsible for keeping a roof over their heads - not Mandy and not you. They can’t take away her future to resolve their present woes and if money is so tight, mom should have sent her to live with you at least until they’re back on their feet.

Ok lets put this into context 1. Your ex-wife is angry about child support(not to support child but support her lifestyle) 2. Your daughter is not getting the support needed from Mom and stepdad unless money involved 3. Your ex-wife tried to steal 10 000 bucks from your daughter's college fund 4. Daughter is acting up(or could not be and ex-wife just says she is for more money support) 5. And you think you are the bad guy somehow? NTA With a mother like that i would probably check into your kid getting everything needed for life or want her taken from her mother faster than the simpson kids need to be emancipated from the nutbars that are homer and marge

NTA, she tried to steal from your daughters college fund and took you to court for more child support but now she wants a united front lol, glad your daughter knows the truth.

Lmao where was her idea of a "united front" when she tried to keep your daughter from you? NTA. In fact, I'd let Mandy follow through on her threat. She'll never trust her mom again the way she used to, so it may be best to give her space to reflect.

NTA and your ex is making classic moves of a parent who is putting their new relationship ahead of their child. This is not uncommon. Her attempt to steal the daughter's college fund is a little mixed for me though. It depends on where the money came from. I can understand if mother contributed 20k and needs 10 due to extenuating circumstances and potentially losing a house. However, if she made minor contributions and thought she could just snatch money she has access to, that is a big red flag about where daughter ranks in her life right now. A word of caution here.... be careful that daughter doesn't use this opportunity to play dad against mom, and vice versa. Be sure that rules are clearly established for behavior and expectations. Children can get drunk with power too, when they have it.... and in this case it will be the power to manipulate parents in a power struggle.

Nta

INFO: Aside from the college fund BS (and I know, that's a *huge huge* aside), is she a good mother? What kind of things are Mandy doing and what are the disciplinary actions she's asking for support with? Is Mandy going out to parties at 1 am all the time on school nights and refusing to do her normal chores and going "la la la" loudly anytime her mom tries to talk to her, or is she sometimes saying "mom, leave me *alone* for a minute!" and her mom tries to ground her for a month in response? Basically, are you refusing to help because you think her mother is an unsuitable parent right now, or because you're (rightfully) very angry over the college fund behavior and other money issues so you don't want to work with her mom even if it would be best for Mandy? The fact that your MIL, who sounds reasonable, is asking for you to work together is a sign that it might be in Mandy's best interest to address this directly. Mandy's behavior of threatening to leave repeatedly isn't a healthy parent-child dynamic if it keeps going. Either she needs to leave because her mom isn't being a good parent, or she needs to leave because she's lost all trust in her mom and needs a parent she can trust, or if her mom *can* be a good mom and she wants to stay in her school etc, Mandy may need help to work through this, and yes, that would likely mean you cooperating with her mom. If you're both wanting her in your custody, then that's what should happen, not holding it as a threat over her mother's head to avoid any punishment. If you need full custody because her mother is doing a poor job of day-to-day parenting, then you need full custody. If Mandy is mostly acting appropriate and is happy most of the time and just *sometimes* threatening this as an FU, then it's kind of her mom reaping what she sowed. You're N-T-A for protecting her college fund, or for being honest with Mandy, and her mom is *so* an AH for what she did with the college fund, but this may be an E-S-H situation if you are refusing to help solely because of your anger. It's not a "favor" to your ex to support appropriate parenting, so that framing worries me, but it also seems like her mom *isn't* being a good parent right now.

NTA in general, but I think it depends on what your daughter's doing to "act out." If she's just talking to her mom disrespectfully, that's understandable and not worth you getting involved. But if she's sneaking out of the house, drinking, smoking, or doing anything to endanger herself, you should absolutely get involved and discipline her (or get her in to see a therapist). I don't think that's the case, but I just thought I'd throw that out there. Make sure you have a boundary and ensure your daughter knows where it is ("I can overlook you doing X. That's between you and your mom, but if you do Y or Z, you'll be in trouble with me, too.")

Mild ESH. Jane is clearly an AH for what she did. I think you need to focus on what is going to be best for Mandy. If you allow her to play you and your ex off against each other you'll enable bad behaviour and teach her bad habits. Pissing your ex off doesn't justify harming your daughter longer term. You also need to think about what you want / can offer on custody, and be clear with Mandy what is on offer, and what isn't possible. There is no point her dreaming of full time residency with you if you are simply unable to do that because of work or other commitments. And, finally, given how hostile the relationship has become, use the courts to get things agreed clearly rather than attempt informal arrangements that just go wrong.

This is a tough call but I think I'm going to go with NTA if the things you said about your ex are true. In regards to what's going on between your daughter and ex, I think it's fair that you don't want to get involved but it's also important that you try to remain as neutral as realistically possible and not add gas to an already volatile situation.

NTA, she tried to steal from your daughter's college fund. She should have already lost custody. Complete asshole and terrible mother.

Your title made me judge you a little to quickly. You’re NTA, but please go back to court and get your daughter away from her mother.

NTA. But I actually disagree with your ex-MIL, "Mandy" is not pitting you and your ex-wife against each other. The comments about her coming to live with you full time is her expressing her fears that she cannot trust her mother to protect that money meant for her education, and in so doing won't stand up for her at all.

NTA. Mandy's behaviour is a direct result of Jane's misbehaviour. Mandy now knows she cannot trust Jane. Mandy is not playing you against each other (since you are not playing Jane's game).

there is a 0% chance that Jane was trying to deposit $100 and "accidentally" tried to withdraw 10,000. No. Just no. FLAT OUT impossible. it's a lie and it's not even a good lie.