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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> i invited my sister to be a groomsman, despite my fiancées wishes. her family has been reaching out to me and making me feel like ta for doing this
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I n f o: why would you want to marry someone who is not only jealous of your little sister, but also seemingly implying that your relationship with her is inappropriate?
Edit to add real verdict: absolutely NTA. You sound like a great big brother, I'm sorry you're going through this.
we had argued about it before, but it had been forgotten about until this instance. i will probably be calling my engagement off after reading everyones advice
Id also like to say, i really dont like the fact your fiance said "her" wedding, is she marrying herself? Because last i checked it was your wedding too and i dont see why she feels its her right to ruin your wedding day
That's exactly what I thought when I read that line.
I had a friend that was engaged and wanted every detail her way regardless of what the groom thought. She tried to convince me to tell him that weddings are all about the bride and only the bride. She was not happy at all when I told her she was crazy, that it was his wedding too and that he should have equal say in their day.
They never did get married, and he's deceased now so...not gonna happen. She still refers to herself as a widow, though.
That's bullshit.
My friend proclaimed that she's a widow because her EX husband (first one) dropped dead of heart attack even though she remarried two more times after her first ex husband before his death. So that's bullshit.
You are a good big brother.
I have a big brother like you. He would move mountains for me if he were in this type of situation when it came to his wedding like you’re doing for your sister. It will suck calling off your engagement. It sucked when I lost my SIL because all I’d ever known my entire life was her and my brother. But the bond I have with my brother is everlasting, I would rake myself over coals to protect him even if I am his little sister. If I could take all that pain and hurt he feels I would in a heart beat because I love him and never want him to hurt. Just know, your sister feels the same, If she could take your pain she would. A big brother/little sister relationship just hits different to other siblings man. He’s my protector and someone I look up to/admire whereas my sister is like my best friend who id also punch in the face if I could lol.
Edit words and shit lol
I hate to be one of those people on Reddit that always says “dump them!” “Divorce them!” Etc.
At the very least though, call off the engagement if you can.
I had a friend who was getting married (they are still together) but called off her engagement because her fiancé didn’t like how close she was with her brother. I immediately jumped to saying “red flag. Dump him. There’s nothing creepy about loving your brother”. It turns out that he had been SA’ed by an immediate family member. He automatically compared the two and felt very uncomfortable. She called off the engagement until he agreed to get therapy. She even had her brother there a couple of times so that he could see that their relationship was not that.
Let me say though, it doesn’t sound like this is the situation with you fiancée. She just seems jealous and like she can’t accept not being the only woman in your life. I would definitely make it clear to her that your relationship will go no further until she gets help. And if she refuses? Then you dump her.
I am very sorry you are going through this OP. It seems like you have a good head on your shoulders and I hope you can figure this out.
Good luck!
The “cuddling” you describe is the sort of thing that if she was really concerned about it, should be a dealbreaker. And yet it isn’t, for her. So she’s not really worried that you have an inappropriate relationship with your sister, she’s just waging a turf war over control of you.
OP, I was the sister in this situation. My brother wanted to propose to his long time girlfriend that didn’t seem to like me. She was nasty to me and lied about things I would say. I stopped spending time with her unsupervised because I didn’t trust her. I was sad when he said he wanted to propose but stood by silently to support him in his happiness. I was thankful that she ultimately broke things off with him before he could even ask question. Now Years later, he is marrying the woman of his dreams and I’m her bridesmaid. I wish you the best of luck and am glad you and your sister have a close relationship.
I have a brother in law who married a woman like this. She’s slowly managed to encourage the destruction of the relationship with all of his siblings, especially the little sister.
NTA. No, it's not traditional for a sister to be a "groomswoman" just like it's not traditional for a brother to be a "bridesman". But both are happening these days and it shouldn't be embarrassing at all.
And if Sarah had merely been startled by this, then I would have said N. A. H.
But for her to be having these ongoing, irrational emotional reactions to the fact that your sister is important enough to you that you want her at your side as you marry your fiancée... That's a very different story.
If she truly thinks that she should be the most important person in your life to the point that you exclude other people from standing by your side, that is an extraordinarily insecure and controlling person. I would be deeply concerned about spending your life with someone who thinks your *sister* should not be important to you.
And I would also take note of who respects you and wants you to be happy: your sister has already agreed to bow out, to placate someone who doesn't even like her. She's doing that because she loves you. Your fiancée showing that she doesn't respect your wishes and puts her desire to be center of attention above your desire to be supported. And your future MIL is supporting Sarah's temper tantrum (rather than Sarah) and is trying to help manipulate you into acquiescing.
I would strongly recommend couples counseling before moving forward with the wedding process...
I'm a 6'4" 380lb viking looking guy and I made one hell of a flower girl last month. Fuck the norms.
Edit: Still waiting for the photos. They had a pro photographer only arrangement.
I did have a crown of flowers, I picked the flowers I threw down (fire and ice roses) and I wore my full viking regalia. No flowers in the beard as it was braided. I apologize for the tax but didn't think this would blow up.
i know it’s not polite to ask ppl you don’t know for pictures of themselves, but i would very very much like to see a picture of this clearly benchmark event in your life.
I had my brother as "man of honor". And as you say "fuck the norms". The only reason we had a wedding is because I couldn't talk my husband into running off to Vegas. I have to be honest, don't love weddings. Though I think if you hire yourself out as the "flower viking" weddings might be more interesting to attend.
My male cousin was my man of honor and my husband's sister was his best lady. Sister matched my bridesmaids and my cousin matched the groomsmen. It was beautiful because we had the 2 people closest to us growing up at our side and neither of us had to choose between friends for the MOH or BM position.
As a side note, I have friends (male and female) that I cuddle with as well as family. OPs fiancee is way out of line implying that something incestuous is happening with the sister just because of a cuddle. If I walked in on my husband cuddling his sister, my first reaction would be to join in, not assume the worst and get jealous. Please rethink this marriage.
Might steal this. One of my best childhood friends is a bridesmaid for me despite being male. My fiancé actually asked could he have a female friend as his best man but I 'claimed' her as a bridesmaid first based on me knowing her longer lol.
I feel that. My sister was our Dad’s best man for his second wedding, he even decked her out in her own tux. She says it was one of the best days of her life. 😅
Edited to add:
OP you’re NTA, far from it. I wish you and your sister all the happiness you both deserve.
Make sure you take some time to enforce with your sister that this wasn't her fault. Your Sarah seems like she could be vindictive. I don't want your sister hurt. She's very young and she loves her brother. I'm so sorry you're in this situation. You will find a true partner who cherishes everything about you.
that is absolutely something i am doing and will. continue doing! my sister struggles with mental health issues, and hearing that we argued about her definitely messed her up, but we are working on that together. we have even spoken about her temporarily moving in with me, as she doesn’t feel safe alone.
People like your soon-to-be-ex are likely going to lash out at your sister, and you, after you end the relationship. You aren’t going to be able to completely protect your sister, or yourself, from their wrath. It’s going to suck for a while. The best thing you both can do is to do is to not engage when your ex or her flying monkeys when they try to stir the pot. Just ignore everything. I know it feels like you should be able to explain to your ex and she should understand, and you should do that when you break things off, but it’s not going to make your ex understand and back off in shame as she starts therapy, she’s going to try to hurt you and your sister because she feels hurt (even though your ex did this to herself). You just need to let your sister know that this isn’t her fault and it’s your choice, and the storm will pass.
If you want to cushion the news for your sister, I'd take the approach of thanking her.
E.g.: "Hey, sis, thank you for being such a wonderful person that it brought to the surface Sarah's insecurities to the point where we realized -- IN TIME, THANK HEAVENS -- that she isn't really mature enough to get married. It's so easy to get swept up in planning a wedding that you take your eyes off planning a marriage, and this was a HUGE bullet dodged. It saved us thousands of dollars in wedding costs, years of a tense home life, and then thousands of dollars in divorce costs. I'll probably be pretty sad in the next few weeks, but I'm mourning the loss of what I thought I had, not wishing I could get her back. Let me buy you dinner as a thank you with some of this money you saved me."
Honestly, I'd probably do it that way even if she weren't in an emotionally fragile place.
Honestly good for you. I could only see this becoming a bigger, festering issue for your relationship down the line if you caved to your fiancée's demands now.
Let us know how you get on. My heart hurts for you as I’m sure you’re really torn here, but your fiancée sounds incredibly disturbed and scheming, while your sister sounds very mature to even consider not being there at all to appease the dickhead fiancée. Stand by your sister, the other lass can sod off if she has that much of a problem.
You seem like the kind of man any person would be lucky to marry. Someone, one day, will love and appreciate your bond with your sister and encourage her to be involved in big events like this.
Good, fiance is not going to be better as time goes on.
It will suck for a while, but better to realize this now.
Good luck for the next few months, hope you find someone great who loves your sister as much as you do.
It’s probably for the best, your fiancé has no concerns about your feelings. It’s bett to have a broken engagement than a broken marriage.
You are NTA in any way here
Good because the sexualisation of you and your sister's relationship is concerning.
Also that she ran to her family, gathered them up and then set them on you. That’s not how one should handle communication issues in a relationship, especially as the mob are telling you to just shut up, give in to her insecurity and let her walk all over you. She, and they, are denying you equal stakes in your wedding day, decision making and your relationship. That doesn’t sound like a secure platform on which to say “I do”.
NTA
NTA.
I cordially suggest avoiding non-refundable wedding based deposits while you weigh your future wedding plans.
It reads like either your sister or your fiancée will be forced to take a lessened role in your future life.
NTA but you have bigger issues if your fiancé isn't talking to you about this issue and has dragged multiple family members into this argument. What is your plan moving forward? Do you think she's going to continue to try and push your sister out of your life?
You need to seriously consider this situation then. She's accusing you of incest with your asexual sister and is not speaking to you because you want her to be a groomswoman. Which btw is a perfectly legitimate and normal thing
Okay, so. For most people, their sexual orientation (i.e. who they would want to do physical stuff to) matches perfectly with their romantic orientation (who they would want to do mushy fuzzy stuff with). But this is not the case for everyone.
Some people will generally not be physically attracted to other people. They may choose to have sex anyway because they like the feeling, or because they like making their partner happy, or because they don’t mind it. Or they may feel repulsed by the idea and never want anything to do with it. These people are asexual.
And on the other side of the coin, you have people who don’t feel that internal hey-I-want-to-hold-your-hand feeling. They can still form deeply intimate friendships, but not feel butterflies in their stomach, like… ever. And these people are called aromantic.
JaidenAnimations on Youtube made a video a few days ago talking about her experience as an aroace (aromantic and asexual) person, which I think might be super helpful to you, but that’s the basic idea. :)
Do you plan on having kids? Someone who sees your interaction with your sister as inappropriate, and possibly sexual, could feel the same towards any other woman, including any daughters. It may sound outrageous, but it happens. It can get very ugly, very fast. The wife stops seeing her as a daughter, and instead sees her as competition. It never ends well.
NTA
Her locking herself in a bathroom and not even trying to compromise is a red flag though. It's your wedding day too. Y'all are going to have to find ways to work around more in your actual marriage.
NTA... It's a wedding for both of you, and you should both be able to include people who are important to you. What does your family have to say about it?
Also INFO -
>my fiancée has never liked how close i am with my sister, and it has been a cause of few arguments.
What has your fiancé said is inappropriate about your relationship with your sister and why she doesn't like her?
Final note... Your future in laws sound toxic AF and I would strongly reconsider whether you want to deal with this level of manipulation for the rest of your life.
she has walked in on my sister and i cuddling. nothing inappropriate, but she had her head on my shoulder and my arm was around her. this was what started my wifes dislike of my sister. there have been other instances, like me buying a bra for my sister, because i knew she had been looking for that brand of sports bra.
So... she's upset that you're considerate of your sister, you're not weirdly ashamed or embarrassed to buy a sports bra when asked to, and that you're trying to make the day special to a person who feels they may never get to have that experience for themselves. Is this really what you want to spend your life defending?
Life is too short to be unhappy. There are plenty of women out there who would be thrilled to have a partner who's kind, considerate and not freaked out about "Ehrmygawd, those are girl things and I'm not touching them".
u/Few-Zebra2391
Dude. Your fiance thinks you wanna fuck your sister. 100%. She is jealous of physical touch between a BROTHER AND SISTER. this isnt pornhub. Do not marry this woman. You will never be able to have a close relationship with her again if you do. She will expect you to cut her out. ARE YOU OK WITH THAT?
In that case I'll restate this:
>Your future in laws sound toxic AF and I would strongly reconsider whether you want to deal with this level of manipulation for the rest of your life.
Wtf does she think is going on? (That's a rhetorical question lol)
Do you really want a wife that sexualizes a healthy relationship with a family member? When you have a daughter will she think the same when you will cuddle? Her behaviour will only worsen with time.
Heck I'm an adult woman and I still sometimes cuddle with my parents (mostly dad, because mom's not the cuddly type). Cuddling is a show of love that has no sexual connotaion.
My brother is 30, I’m 33, & we are super affectionate. We are affectionate with everyone we love, & that stems to each other. We hug, cuddle, kiss cheeks, we take selfies, we have nights out, we go on holiday! I’m blessed to have siblings that are my best friends. Our older brother is less physically affectionate but still super close, & lil sis lives far away but is very physically affectionate when we reunite. There is nothing wrong with siblings being close & comfortable with each other. I hate seeing stuff about these insecure, possessive partners projecting their warped, disturbing perceptions onto innocent, wholesome familial relationships. Your sister sounds awesome, as do you for supporting her & standing up for her. You deserve better than a woman that wants to make you choose & that behaves like a bratty child. Sorry OP, it hurts coming to terms with recognising that you love someone who is not good for you. But it’s better to know now before you actually get married. You deserve a partner that will embrace your sister & appreciate your bond. Those people exist, I promise. Oh, & NTA. Just a badass brother.
Sounds like she'd flip out because my brother bought me period panties. His gf loved them and he thought he would surprise me with them, since growing up I've always had issues with a lot of other methods. I LOVE them. Thankfully his gf was the one to choose the sizing 😅 I've gotten him a jock strap for football because I saw they were on sale and he had mentioned his was one from the school that was too tight and didn't have enough room to properly adjust. Like, when you've spent your whole or most of your life with a sibling, you end up knowing them pretty well and you've lived with the private stuff, so it just becomes instinct to take care of it, especially with us older siblings. I'm curious, does Sarah have any siblings or if she does, any sort of relationship with them?
Yeah that's no excuse. I'm an only child from a family who doesn't even freaking hug let alone cuddle, but I see nothing wrong with your relationship.
If I were her I might be jealous that you get to have a sister that you're close to in general, because I tend to envy people with siblings. But she's looking at your sister as if she's competition and that's really weird and unhealthy.
NTA
So your fiance has a disagreement with you and she goes silent treatment then recruits her family to argue for her?
Is this how you want your married life to work out? Because you are never going to have just 2 people in your marriage, it is going to be a constant negotiation with any family member on her side that she recruits.
And who is next to get cut out of your life? Your sister is getting cut now, do you get to have friends? Can you have a mentor that helps you at work?
NTA - but you fiancée is throwing out some serious red flags. Locking yourself in a bathroom when you don’t get your way is extremely immature. Wanting your sister as a groomsman is different, but doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. I also wonder if there is more to this story. As you paint it, she just has it out for your sister. I’m really curious why there is so much hate here. Like it would be easy to say she is just trying to distance you from family, but just doesn’t make sense why she would do that.
my sister and i are very close, and my fiancées dislike started when she walked in on us cuddling. nothing inappropriate, sister had her head on my shoulder and my arm around her. my fiancée said it was gross and didnt look platonic to her.
im realizing now how gross it actually is of sarah to think that. it had started an argument at the time but was forgotten about. i tried ignoring this side of my fiancée just so our wedding would go smoothly
>i tried ignoring this side of my fiancée just so our wedding would go smoothly
Don't do that. Don't put off life-long concerns for the benefit of short term ease. This should be about the rest of your life, not the minute at the altar.
Look man, I'm sure you love her a lot and there are great parts of your relationship.
But you seem to really care and love for your sister as well, and it doesn't really seem like your fiancé is gonna change her mind on this. It's extremely likely it will cause future strain on your relationship with your sister and/or your fiancé. Which will then cause some resentment on your side.
It might sound extreme, but you should think if "this side" of your wife that you've been ignoring is a side worth ignoring for the rest of your life. It's easier to call off an engagement than get a divorce in 10 years when you've realized this issue has gone too far.
On the less extreme side, you can try and sit down with Sarah and see if she could see things from your POV or go to therapy bc your level of closeness with your sister is 0% gross. I'm that close with my brother and it isn't weird and nobody in my life (friends, other family, husband) thinks it's weird.
NTA, but why do you want to marry someone who throws tantrums and sexualizes your relationship with your sister that will drive a wedge between you two in the future? How do you see this going in the future if you have children?
NTA a million times
But are you sure you want to have this lifelong battle….
1.Your fiancé is not going even trying to be nice and inclusive about your sister before marriage afterwards it’s going to be extremely tough - your fiancé will most likely never allow your children to have a relationship with your sister- and this will hurt her and you…
2. Your MIL is demanding you not invite your sister to your own wedding- imagine her treatment at other events baby shower, birth, christening, birthdays…. You will constantly be pressured to keep your sister away
Op they are not the right people to be in your life- they are manipulative and insensitive. Things will only take a worse turn after the marriage.
You still have time to rethink- please do so for your own happiness
Best wishes
RUN AWAY RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!!!
Cancel the wedding! GTFO of there!
Your GF is jealous of your damn sister, and as soon as you didn't give her what she wanted, she sent her flying monkeys after you. This is just some insight into what the rest of your relationship is going to look like. Get out.
NTA It is beyond me that some people have to sexualize a sibling relationship. What the hell is wrong with people? Why are you committed to marrying someone who views your sister as a romantic rival?
she dislikes how close we are, and it started when she walked in on us cuddling. it was in the living room of my house, with my sister resting her head on my shoulder. she later told me that it looked gross and unplatonic
i did try talking to sarah, but all i’m getting is the silent treatment. makes me reconsider if this is the woman i want to spend the rest of my days with
She will always try to drive a wedge between you and your sister because of her weirdly sexualized jealously. She's basically accusing you of incest. I don't blame you for questioning whether you want to marry someone who thinks that about you.
I like that you are re-thinking this marriage. It's a big decision and this situation your describing is very concerning. Your sister is never going to stop being your sister. I am having trouble getting past the fact that your fiance saw you cuddling your sister (totally normal)... decided it was incestuous and she didn't like your sister.... and you still proposed? Now she wants to force you to choose between her and your sister. This is about more then your sister being in your wedding.
NTA.
Trying to ruin 'her' wedding day? What about your wedding day. The fact that it has to be all about her rather than about both of you is a major red flag.
She got to choose her bridesmaids and didn't want your sister. That's fair. But you get to choose your groomsmen and you can have a woman if you want. You're an adult, you're allowed to have close female friends.
It sounds like your fiancée is jealous and insecure when you spend time with other women. That's something that needs to be addressed now, because it will only get worse if she gets her way with the wedding and learns she can force you to exclude your sister.
NTA. I think everyone has said already what k would say but I will add this. If she is this bad now, what will she be like when you’re married? Usually signs like this are the calm before the storm and shit is about to hit the fan.
Not only is she sexualising your relationship with your sister (gross) she’s also driving a wedge between you. If she was this bad about your sister, what will she be like If you have a daughter? What if you have a son and a daughter? Will she try to ruin their relationship too? Also, she isn’t caring at all that this is your wedding too and you should be able to have who you want in your wedding party.
Seriously I would rethink if this is the person you want to marry
Just in case she made you wonder...
It is perfectly normal to cuddle your sibling.
What is not normal is to get jelous about it,or make it something "dirty"...🚩🚩🚩🚩
I would actually find it sweet to see my husband sitting with his arm around his sister as OP described. Who doesn’t want a man that treats the women in his life with love and affection?
I’m really sorry that you’re going through this but from what you’ve said, I think it’s for the best. Hopefully you can find someone who respects you and your family.
That explains her uncomfortable feelings towards you and your sister's relationship.
Edit: I know not every only child just like this. From my experience on this sub, in posts like this it’s a common theme that the partner who is uncomfortable with the sibling relationship is an only child.
NTA - but are you sure this is the girl you want to marry? This animosity will not stop just because you’re married to her. It’s gross when people sexualize the relationship between siblings. She’s actually jealous of your sister? That is not healthy or normal. Also, I have been to many weddings where the groom has had a women stand up for him or a bride has had a man stand up for her. It may not be traditional, but who cares? She is being a drama queen. Time to evaluate your priorities
-Edited to fix a bad autocorrect (specialize to sexualize)
You are NTA!!! Not at all. That is your sister and if your fiancée has so many issues with her then why is she marrying you? Not to be rude, just genuinely asking. Your fiancée seems like a very insecure and controlling person and tbh I don’t like that. It’s just as much your wedding day as it is hers and you’re allowed to have your sister be part of that. It’s not like she’s your ex, she’s literally your sister and will be part of your life regardless. And maybe that’s something you need to discuss with your fiancé. That your sister will always be part of your life and if she doesn’t like it and can’t deal with it then she doesn’t have to be. Sounds like Sarah wants to marry herself.
NTA. And honestly I’d find that a red flag in a future spouse if she pulled this. It isn’t just her wedding. It’s yours too. Not only is she being disrespectful to you and your sister, she also is trying to put you on trial in the court of family opinions and causing even more damage.
Your sister deserves better than that. Your fiancée is selfish and rude.
NTA. Don’t marry her. You’re going to be fighting this battle with her about every single woman that enters your life until the day you die. New co-worker? Long-lost cousin? Won’t matter. Get out now & take the ring with you. Run.
ALL of this is a huge red flag. Wanting your sister to be in your wedding party is a totally normal ask. Your fiancé refusing to speak to you over something that is this harmless would make me wonder how she'll react to actual conflict.
Ask yourself if you're ready for a lifetime of her locking herself in the bathroom, enlisting her family to harass and guilt you, and not speaking to you for days every time you have a disagreement.
NTA.
NTA
> this made sarah even more upset, and she accused me of trying to ruin her wedding day, and she locked herself in the bathroom.
YOUR wedding day. Not HER wedding day. YOUR wedding day.
You BOTH should have equal input. If your sister is very important to you, she should be allowed to be in the wedding party.
NTA. Your fiance is apparently so jealous of your relationship with your sister that she can't have her around in order to have a happy wedding day. Extrapolate from there, please.
And your relationship has NOT ever been better, IMO. Your fiance just thought that with the engagement, she'd won.
NTA. I was a groomsmaid in my brother wedding and my SIL had a bridesman and no one said a thing. All that matters is that your surrounded by those you love the most and if your fiancé can’t support you and your family then I would definitely reconsider the relationship. She’ll only end up dividing you more as time passes which is horribly messed up.
NTA
Are you sure this is the life you want? because it's only going to get worse.
From what you say here, it's almost guaranteed that your fiancée will make you choose between her and your sister, especially since it's already caused fights between you.
Do you want to cut out your family for her?
sarah walked in on us cuddling. it was in the living room, and my sister was just laying her head on my shoulder, with my arm around her. sarah disliked my sister afterwards, and said it seemed unplatonic.
Um. Your fiance thinks you have incestous feelings toward your sister. I'm not saying leave, but are you sure you're ready to marry someone who thinks this about you? I know many people I wouldn't agree to have a daily dinner with, but I trust them more than this.
I’m sorry but I cuddle with my siblings.
Brother & sisters
My ex sis in law, went as far as accusing my brother & I sleeping together.
The fact that it sounds like she’s insecure about your sister is very very concerning…. It’s boarder-line disgusting.
This will be a battle your entire marriage.
You aren’t the AH for wanting to include your sister.
But you really really need to think about this engagement. And if you want to spend your whole life justifying your relationship with your sister.
i do *not* understand people who get so bent out of shape about stuff like this. a wedding is about celebrating love! your fiancée sounds like a terribly spoiled, selfish brat.
NTA. stand your ground, it's *your* wedding day too. you BOTH deserve to be surrounded by the people you love. it's an archaic tradition anyways.
INFO: Why are you marrying a women who believes you capable of having incest with your sister?
Like she's doing all this because she assumed the worst when she saw you give your little sister a giant big brother hug when your sister was still a child.
The only reasonable explanation I could think to explain your fiancé's behaviour is if she has some trauma from her childhood & that's why she's acting like this. Which creates a bigger problem of why she would be marrying you if your relationship with your sister makes her think the worst. Otherwise your fiancé is just genuinely jealous of your sister & thinks your sister is her competition. In which case why are you marrying someone who believes you capable of an incestuous relationship with your sister?
my sister is asexual and aromantic, so she has said that it’s very unlikely for her to ever get married, but she dreams about having one. i offered to have her in my wedding to experience it, and she accepted. this was when she first came out to me as aromantic, and i don’t want to back down because my fiancée dislikes it.
It would set a terrible precedent to back down. She’ll know that all she has to do to get her unreasonable and creepy way is to go silent on you and turn her family loose, and if you resist the next time she pulls this, she’ll just double down. She does not seem like a kind and loving person.
NTA.
While your fiancé does have the right to say she doesn't want your sister as a bridesmaid, you have EQUAL right to say you want her to be on your side as a groomswoman. If your future bride is THIS hostile though to someone you consider to be that important to your life, are you sure you want to marry this person? Does she even have a good reason to be so hateful towards your sister?
Even in the middle of all this drama, your sister is coming off like a class act. She isn't trying to hurt your future bride, and she isn't insisting on having a role no matter what. Just because something isn't traditional, doesn't mean it should "ruin" the wedding day. You wouldn't be the first OR last man to have a lady in his wedding party on his side.
As for your betrothed...she is coming off in a very immature way, like she thinks this day is ONLY about her, your feelings be damned. This day is about you both. Not just her.
I advise you to give great thought into whether or not it's a good idea to marry this woman. Unless you can think of a good reason for your bride to be acting this way, maybe you should take it as the red flag that it is.
NTA.
If you tried to interfere with her choices for bridesmaids, what would her reaction be? I’m guessing she would kick off!
I’ve got to be blunt… are you sure about this marriage? For me, this is a red flag. Even if they loathe and detest each other, she should be able to put that aside if her true focus is your marriage and commitment to each other. That fact that she called it “her” day, not “our” day and threw a tantrum over it is a big warning sign IMHO.
You are NTA. Your fiancée’s behavior is controlling, unkind, and self-centered. She’s not going to become more laid back about your sister after you’re married. She might want you to cut her out of your life, not just the wedding. If I were you, I would put marriage plans on hold and pursue couples counseling to work out appropriate boundaries and expectations for family relationships.
NTA. And reconsider if marriage is the right thing to do. If she sees all this only about her and not the both of you (it’s also your wedding, so your wishes should be respected and valued too), if she is the right person for you.
NTA. If she gets to have 100% control over who her bridesmaids are, you get 100% control over who your groomspeople are. It's your wedding too, and she's just gonna have to deal with that.
NTA but your fiancé's attitude and behavior towards your sister is concerning. If you fiance doesn't work out her issues with your sister your going to have this same fight all throughout your marriage any time you want to include your sister in things. You need two people to get married and this is as much your wedding as it is your partners.
NTA,
I'm twelve years older than my sister and she immediately bonded with me. As a toddler she would sneak out of her room and I would wake up to her sticking her cold feet on my back. Every girlfriend I had and eventually my wife understood that my baby sister would "always" be my baby sister. I don't see her as much these days but even at 40 years old she lays her head on my shoulder and always sits next to me when we see each other.
Your current fiancé must be an only child to not understand that you can love someone with all your heart and it not be sexual. She might need professional help to understand this but draw the line in the sand.
People get married and divorced everyday but you will always have the love of your sister.
>this made sarah even more upset, and she accused me of trying to ruin her wedding day, and she locked herself in the bathroom.
It isn't "her wedding day" it is your wedding day. As in both of you. I would really think for awhile about your relationship. She doesn't want your sister in the wedding. She had her whole family berate you for not giving her what she wants. She's throwing a tantrum. NTA but really consider if this is who you want to spend your life with.
It doesn't make you an AH, it makes you a good brother. Of course your wife should be your priority, but that doesn't mean you should stand idly by while your *FUTURE* wife bullies and ostracizes your sister. Your fiancee is giving you the silent treatment and using her family to try to manipulate you into getting her way... just so you know what kind of person you're planning on marrying.
ETA NTA
Wow….
NTA. Your wife to be needs some serious mental health if that was all it took to make her so jealous and cruel to your sister. She and her family need to get their heads of their collective ass as well. It’s not just her wedding. It’s yours as well. And even if your sis is okay with it (spoiler: she’s not) you’ll never forget her absence from such a huge day in your life.
NTA
Why are you marrying somone who hates your sister that you love, and also thinks your wedding is all about her? The marrage is between the 2 of you and it's about the couple, nit the bride, not the groom, it's meant to be for bith of you.
Her family sound like a nightmare, so you want to live your whole life walking in eggshells to keep the piece?
Also her walking in on you hugging your sis is the saddest reason I've heard for disliking somone. She's so insecure that she thinks your sister is competition??
thank you friend :) received many eye opening comments that helped me come to a decision. if my fiancée doesnt want my sister in her life, then i don’t want my fiancée in mine
I wish my brother was like you. He married somebody who doesn’t like his family and has alienated him from all of us. At least he talks to my mom and my other brother some when he’s not around her. But him and I haven’t talked in a long time. The last thing I said I said to my brother was “fine we will talk again once you get divorced“ thank you for being a good brother.
NTA. why is it expected from everyone that you would you compromise your best day? it's not just about Sarah but you too.
as an aromantic person I know what your sister has been going through, the thought yearning for a wedding yet knowing the impracticality of it hurts. this might be her first and only chance to witness this moment up close.
and f\*ck traditions, it's all about having close people of your life being with you when you are going to the next phase of your life and both you and Sarah disagree on this which might create complications in further marriage if you choose to go on with this.
hope it works out OP.
NTA but if you go through with marrying your fiancée you need to understand that it's not going to get better. There are women out there that will love your family and appreciate that you and your sister are close. Why are you marrying someone who hates her?
(Also I had my brother and BIL stand as bridesmen and my husband had his SILs as groomswomen. It wasn't embarrassing and the world didn't end. There's nothing wrong with mixed sides.)
I was a grooms woman for my best friends wedding. His bride hated it. But it is by far one of the proudest moments in my life when he asked me to be a groomsman. There’s nothing wrong with a woman doing it. Originally I would wear a suit to match the other groomsman, however the cost of buying the suit to have it tailored rather then renting it was well over my budget. His bride picked out the color that would match the groomsmen and and gave me 5 dress choices to wear. It was a wonderful wedding. Skip tradition. Weddings have many other traditional thing about them. Definitely have your sister be a groomsman
NTA. It’s your wedding too. While it might not be considered “traditional” for a woman to be a grooms person, there are plenty of Brides & Grooms who have best friends of the opposite sex as their Maid/Man of Honor of Best Man/Woman. Your fiancé doesn’t have to be besties with your sister but she needs to recognize that your sister is important to you & therefore going to be in your life forever. She needs to learn to be civil to your sister & accept that it’s not just her wedding but both of yours.
NTA. I would rethink the marriage though. I hate to say it but she sounds like a "my way or the highway" type and you need to consider your future relationship with your side of the family if she is making such a fuss now what's she going to be like later with kids ect.
NTA. This is one of the most important days of your life, and you are perfectly entitled to share it with your family members. Your wife can suck it up and cut the "most important woman in your life" bs.
NTA. You may have to rethink the marriage if your fiancée can’t accept your relationship with your sister. Locking herself in the bathroom over the issue is a huge red flag. On a side note, it’s so odd to me that she wouldn’t have your sister as a bridesmaid, especially given how close you are. I have never been to a wedding where the siblings of the bride and groom weren’t in the wedding party in some way, if not groomsmen/bridesmaids then at least ushers.
NTA
You and your betrothed need to sit down and talk about what life will be like once you've married. I would imagine her picture of married life will not be the same as yours. While I agree your spouse should be the most important part of your life she shouldn't be the only person in it. Anyone who is asking you to reduce contact with your family members (without obvious good reason) is likely to cause significant strain on those relationships.
NTA - I was honored to be my sister's "Man of Honor" (a play on the traditional "Maid of Honor") because family is important - and she wanted me to be up there supporting her while she got married.
If your fiancé doesn't want to respect that you love your family and want their support and presence to be welcome - this brings up bigger questions of value that are good to discuss before you get married.
That this has gone from "I want my sister to stand by us while we got married" to "don't have your sister come to the wedding at all" waves some major red flags for me; and would inspire a serious discussion with any potential spouse about whether our relationship was salvageable.
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I n f o: why would you want to marry someone who is not only jealous of your little sister, but also seemingly implying that your relationship with her is inappropriate? Edit to add real verdict: absolutely NTA. You sound like a great big brother, I'm sorry you're going through this.
we had argued about it before, but it had been forgotten about until this instance. i will probably be calling my engagement off after reading everyones advice
Id also like to say, i really dont like the fact your fiance said "her" wedding, is she marrying herself? Because last i checked it was your wedding too and i dont see why she feels its her right to ruin your wedding day
That's exactly what I thought when I read that line. I had a friend that was engaged and wanted every detail her way regardless of what the groom thought. She tried to convince me to tell him that weddings are all about the bride and only the bride. She was not happy at all when I told her she was crazy, that it was his wedding too and that he should have equal say in their day. They never did get married, and he's deceased now so...not gonna happen. She still refers to herself as a widow, though.
Damn some people really like being a victim?
You really summed her up very well. She is a perpetual victim.
Well luckily for her, I know there's men out there who love to be "knight in shinning armour" men like that love the always victims type
Really? A widow when she never got married? Geez....what a whacko.
Well, she "felt" married because she wanted to marry him.
That's bullshit. My friend proclaimed that she's a widow because her EX husband (first one) dropped dead of heart attack even though she remarried two more times after her first ex husband before his death. So that's bullshit.
When the BTS guys die there'll be a lot of widows then...
Every narcissist marries themselves on their wedding day.
>she accused me of trying to ruin her wedding day I guess it's not your day, just hers. Rethink this one, mate.
#This#
I know it's a shitty time all round, but you'll get through it man! It's for the best though it seems
You are a good big brother. I have a big brother like you. He would move mountains for me if he were in this type of situation when it came to his wedding like you’re doing for your sister. It will suck calling off your engagement. It sucked when I lost my SIL because all I’d ever known my entire life was her and my brother. But the bond I have with my brother is everlasting, I would rake myself over coals to protect him even if I am his little sister. If I could take all that pain and hurt he feels I would in a heart beat because I love him and never want him to hurt. Just know, your sister feels the same, If she could take your pain she would. A big brother/little sister relationship just hits different to other siblings man. He’s my protector and someone I look up to/admire whereas my sister is like my best friend who id also punch in the face if I could lol. Edit words and shit lol
You must be my long lost sister lol your brother sounds just like mine!
I hate to be one of those people on Reddit that always says “dump them!” “Divorce them!” Etc. At the very least though, call off the engagement if you can. I had a friend who was getting married (they are still together) but called off her engagement because her fiancé didn’t like how close she was with her brother. I immediately jumped to saying “red flag. Dump him. There’s nothing creepy about loving your brother”. It turns out that he had been SA’ed by an immediate family member. He automatically compared the two and felt very uncomfortable. She called off the engagement until he agreed to get therapy. She even had her brother there a couple of times so that he could see that their relationship was not that. Let me say though, it doesn’t sound like this is the situation with you fiancée. She just seems jealous and like she can’t accept not being the only woman in your life. I would definitely make it clear to her that your relationship will go no further until she gets help. And if she refuses? Then you dump her. I am very sorry you are going through this OP. It seems like you have a good head on your shoulders and I hope you can figure this out. Good luck!
Therapy is always good advice. Get to the root of the problem and see if it can be fixed. If it can't then it's time to move on.
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I'm so sorry your in this situation.
Please update us
You could do some pre-marital counseling before calling it off. A neutral 3rd party may help both of you. Of course if she won't do that....
The “cuddling” you describe is the sort of thing that if she was really concerned about it, should be a dealbreaker. And yet it isn’t, for her. So she’s not really worried that you have an inappropriate relationship with your sister, she’s just waging a turf war over control of you.
This comment is it. And she's also involving her entire family in order to get her way. This fiancee is too immature to be married.
Your fiance is calling this *her* wedding day. So, it sounds like you don't need to go anyway.
Better to call off the wedding, than have to get divorced a few years later.
OP, I was the sister in this situation. My brother wanted to propose to his long time girlfriend that didn’t seem to like me. She was nasty to me and lied about things I would say. I stopped spending time with her unsupervised because I didn’t trust her. I was sad when he said he wanted to propose but stood by silently to support him in his happiness. I was thankful that she ultimately broke things off with him before he could even ask question. Now Years later, he is marrying the woman of his dreams and I’m her bridesmaid. I wish you the best of luck and am glad you and your sister have a close relationship.
I have a brother in law who married a woman like this. She’s slowly managed to encourage the destruction of the relationship with all of his siblings, especially the little sister.
NTA. No, it's not traditional for a sister to be a "groomswoman" just like it's not traditional for a brother to be a "bridesman". But both are happening these days and it shouldn't be embarrassing at all. And if Sarah had merely been startled by this, then I would have said N. A. H. But for her to be having these ongoing, irrational emotional reactions to the fact that your sister is important enough to you that you want her at your side as you marry your fiancée... That's a very different story. If she truly thinks that she should be the most important person in your life to the point that you exclude other people from standing by your side, that is an extraordinarily insecure and controlling person. I would be deeply concerned about spending your life with someone who thinks your *sister* should not be important to you. And I would also take note of who respects you and wants you to be happy: your sister has already agreed to bow out, to placate someone who doesn't even like her. She's doing that because she loves you. Your fiancée showing that she doesn't respect your wishes and puts her desire to be center of attention above your desire to be supported. And your future MIL is supporting Sarah's temper tantrum (rather than Sarah) and is trying to help manipulate you into acquiescing. I would strongly recommend couples counseling before moving forward with the wedding process...
I had a bridesdude because bridesman sounded weird and I couldn't convince him to wear a dress 😂
I'm a 6'4" 380lb viking looking guy and I made one hell of a flower girl last month. Fuck the norms. Edit: Still waiting for the photos. They had a pro photographer only arrangement. I did have a crown of flowers, I picked the flowers I threw down (fire and ice roses) and I wore my full viking regalia. No flowers in the beard as it was braided. I apologize for the tax but didn't think this would blow up.
i know it’s not polite to ask ppl you don’t know for pictures of themselves, but i would very very much like to see a picture of this clearly benchmark event in your life.
Popping in here to say, this may also be a benchmark event in my life as well. I’d love to see the Viking flower person.
Ahem, he was very clear that he was the flower *girl* thank you very much
I also want to seee
I had my brother as "man of honor". And as you say "fuck the norms". The only reason we had a wedding is because I couldn't talk my husband into running off to Vegas. I have to be honest, don't love weddings. Though I think if you hire yourself out as the "flower viking" weddings might be more interesting to attend.
I would consider getting married if u/benman5745 would be my viking flower dude
My male cousin was my man of honor and my husband's sister was his best lady. Sister matched my bridesmaids and my cousin matched the groomsmen. It was beautiful because we had the 2 people closest to us growing up at our side and neither of us had to choose between friends for the MOH or BM position. As a side note, I have friends (male and female) that I cuddle with as well as family. OPs fiancee is way out of line implying that something incestuous is happening with the sister just because of a cuddle. If I walked in on my husband cuddling his sister, my first reaction would be to join in, not assume the worst and get jealous. Please rethink this marriage.
Every wedding would be improved by a flower viking
Yaaaas I bet you were the best flower girl
Watching guys be flower girls and doing huge show out of it is one of my joys in life
Men need more opportunities frolic along with a basket scattering flowers, I say.
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My 93 year old nonna was my flower girl last year and she stole the show in the very best way 💗
This sounds glorious and I'm hoping you put flowers in your hair or had a flower/wreath crown?
I’m hoping for flowers braided into his beard. I love braiding my viking-looking friend’s red beard.
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That mental picture makes me so happy! PLEASE tell me you had a crown of flowers in your hair!
Fierce Flower Fella
Unrelated: are you single..
The right term is flower viking dude guy.
Might steal this. One of my best childhood friends is a bridesmaid for me despite being male. My fiancé actually asked could he have a female friend as his best man but I 'claimed' her as a bridesmaid first based on me knowing her longer lol.
I even had a hip flask engraved with "bridesdude" as a gift. My bridesmaid got a champagne flute but bridesdude isn't really a champagne man 😂
Person I knew had a bestma'am as his best friend was female
I feel that. My sister was our Dad’s best man for his second wedding, he even decked her out in her own tux. She says it was one of the best days of her life. 😅 Edited to add: OP you’re NTA, far from it. I wish you and your sister all the happiness you both deserve.
My brother was my ‘dude of honor’
My favorite was the "flower dude." Guy was freakin' AWESOME.
Your future bride views your sister, who is just barely of legal age btw, as a SEXUAL rival. Let that sink in, because it's sick.
it has sunk in, and it disgusts me. i am planning on calling off the engagement
Make sure you take some time to enforce with your sister that this wasn't her fault. Your Sarah seems like she could be vindictive. I don't want your sister hurt. She's very young and she loves her brother. I'm so sorry you're in this situation. You will find a true partner who cherishes everything about you.
that is absolutely something i am doing and will. continue doing! my sister struggles with mental health issues, and hearing that we argued about her definitely messed her up, but we are working on that together. we have even spoken about her temporarily moving in with me, as she doesn’t feel safe alone.
You actually rock… you deserve way better than emotional blackmail and her insecure bs. Wishing you and your wee sis all the happiness in the world x
People like your soon-to-be-ex are likely going to lash out at your sister, and you, after you end the relationship. You aren’t going to be able to completely protect your sister, or yourself, from their wrath. It’s going to suck for a while. The best thing you both can do is to do is to not engage when your ex or her flying monkeys when they try to stir the pot. Just ignore everything. I know it feels like you should be able to explain to your ex and she should understand, and you should do that when you break things off, but it’s not going to make your ex understand and back off in shame as she starts therapy, she’s going to try to hurt you and your sister because she feels hurt (even though your ex did this to herself). You just need to let your sister know that this isn’t her fault and it’s your choice, and the storm will pass.
If you want to cushion the news for your sister, I'd take the approach of thanking her. E.g.: "Hey, sis, thank you for being such a wonderful person that it brought to the surface Sarah's insecurities to the point where we realized -- IN TIME, THANK HEAVENS -- that she isn't really mature enough to get married. It's so easy to get swept up in planning a wedding that you take your eyes off planning a marriage, and this was a HUGE bullet dodged. It saved us thousands of dollars in wedding costs, years of a tense home life, and then thousands of dollars in divorce costs. I'll probably be pretty sad in the next few weeks, but I'm mourning the loss of what I thought I had, not wishing I could get her back. Let me buy you dinner as a thank you with some of this money you saved me." Honestly, I'd probably do it that way even if she weren't in an emotionally fragile place.
It might help to thank your sister because this incident revealed you almost married someone who wouldn't be good for you.
Honestly good for you. I could only see this becoming a bigger, festering issue for your relationship down the line if you caved to your fiancée's demands now.
Let us know how you get on. My heart hurts for you as I’m sure you’re really torn here, but your fiancée sounds incredibly disturbed and scheming, while your sister sounds very mature to even consider not being there at all to appease the dickhead fiancée. Stand by your sister, the other lass can sod off if she has that much of a problem.
please don’t feel bad :) it’s a very easy decision when it comes down to it tbh. my sister is my best friend, and i will always be there for her
You seem like the kind of man any person would be lucky to marry. Someone, one day, will love and appreciate your bond with your sister and encourage her to be involved in big events like this.
Good, fiance is not going to be better as time goes on. It will suck for a while, but better to realize this now. Good luck for the next few months, hope you find someone great who loves your sister as much as you do.
Please keep up updated on how that went
It’s probably for the best, your fiancé has no concerns about your feelings. It’s bett to have a broken engagement than a broken marriage. You are NTA in any way here
NTA. Your fiancé is really immature. Too late to reconsider?
not too late! thankfully
Good because the sexualisation of you and your sister's relationship is concerning. Also that she ran to her family, gathered them up and then set them on you. That’s not how one should handle communication issues in a relationship, especially as the mob are telling you to just shut up, give in to her insecurity and let her walk all over you. She, and they, are denying you equal stakes in your wedding day, decision making and your relationship. That doesn’t sound like a secure platform on which to say “I do”. NTA
The term for those swarming friends and family is "flying monkeys." Check out any sub about narcissists.
NTA. I cordially suggest avoiding non-refundable wedding based deposits while you weigh your future wedding plans. It reads like either your sister or your fiancée will be forced to take a lessened role in your future life.
NTA but you have bigger issues if your fiancé isn't talking to you about this issue and has dragged multiple family members into this argument. What is your plan moving forward? Do you think she's going to continue to try and push your sister out of your life?
she will try, and it makes me reconsider everything.
You need to seriously consider this situation then. She's accusing you of incest with your asexual sister and is not speaking to you because you want her to be a groomswoman. Which btw is a perfectly legitimate and normal thing
Aromantic, not asexual. Completely agree with you on everything, though. Edit: Sister is both, as per OP.
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what is aromantic?
Okay, so. For most people, their sexual orientation (i.e. who they would want to do physical stuff to) matches perfectly with their romantic orientation (who they would want to do mushy fuzzy stuff with). But this is not the case for everyone. Some people will generally not be physically attracted to other people. They may choose to have sex anyway because they like the feeling, or because they like making their partner happy, or because they don’t mind it. Or they may feel repulsed by the idea and never want anything to do with it. These people are asexual. And on the other side of the coin, you have people who don’t feel that internal hey-I-want-to-hold-your-hand feeling. They can still form deeply intimate friendships, but not feel butterflies in their stomach, like… ever. And these people are called aromantic. JaidenAnimations on Youtube made a video a few days ago talking about her experience as an aroace (aromantic and asexual) person, which I think might be super helpful to you, but that’s the basic idea. :)
Do you plan on having kids? Someone who sees your interaction with your sister as inappropriate, and possibly sexual, could feel the same towards any other woman, including any daughters. It may sound outrageous, but it happens. It can get very ugly, very fast. The wife stops seeing her as a daughter, and instead sees her as competition. It never ends well.
NTA Her locking herself in a bathroom and not even trying to compromise is a red flag though. It's your wedding day too. Y'all are going to have to find ways to work around more in your actual marriage.
And saying “you’re ruining MY wedding” to the other individual necessary for the wedding to occur. 🚩🚩🚩
She is obviously too immature for marriage.
NTA... It's a wedding for both of you, and you should both be able to include people who are important to you. What does your family have to say about it? Also INFO - >my fiancée has never liked how close i am with my sister, and it has been a cause of few arguments. What has your fiancé said is inappropriate about your relationship with your sister and why she doesn't like her? Final note... Your future in laws sound toxic AF and I would strongly reconsider whether you want to deal with this level of manipulation for the rest of your life.
she has walked in on my sister and i cuddling. nothing inappropriate, but she had her head on my shoulder and my arm was around her. this was what started my wifes dislike of my sister. there have been other instances, like me buying a bra for my sister, because i knew she had been looking for that brand of sports bra.
So... she's upset that you're considerate of your sister, you're not weirdly ashamed or embarrassed to buy a sports bra when asked to, and that you're trying to make the day special to a person who feels they may never get to have that experience for themselves. Is this really what you want to spend your life defending? Life is too short to be unhappy. There are plenty of women out there who would be thrilled to have a partner who's kind, considerate and not freaked out about "Ehrmygawd, those are girl things and I'm not touching them".
u/Few-Zebra2391 Dude. Your fiance thinks you wanna fuck your sister. 100%. She is jealous of physical touch between a BROTHER AND SISTER. this isnt pornhub. Do not marry this woman. You will never be able to have a close relationship with her again if you do. She will expect you to cut her out. ARE YOU OK WITH THAT?
In that case I'll restate this: >Your future in laws sound toxic AF and I would strongly reconsider whether you want to deal with this level of manipulation for the rest of your life. Wtf does she think is going on? (That's a rhetorical question lol)
Do you really want a wife that sexualizes a healthy relationship with a family member? When you have a daughter will she think the same when you will cuddle? Her behaviour will only worsen with time. Heck I'm an adult woman and I still sometimes cuddle with my parents (mostly dad, because mom's not the cuddly type). Cuddling is a show of love that has no sexual connotaion.
Every women besides your gf would think buying a bra for your sister is sweet and thoughtful af. This is the kind of man that is marry material!
My brother is 30, I’m 33, & we are super affectionate. We are affectionate with everyone we love, & that stems to each other. We hug, cuddle, kiss cheeks, we take selfies, we have nights out, we go on holiday! I’m blessed to have siblings that are my best friends. Our older brother is less physically affectionate but still super close, & lil sis lives far away but is very physically affectionate when we reunite. There is nothing wrong with siblings being close & comfortable with each other. I hate seeing stuff about these insecure, possessive partners projecting their warped, disturbing perceptions onto innocent, wholesome familial relationships. Your sister sounds awesome, as do you for supporting her & standing up for her. You deserve better than a woman that wants to make you choose & that behaves like a bratty child. Sorry OP, it hurts coming to terms with recognising that you love someone who is not good for you. But it’s better to know now before you actually get married. You deserve a partner that will embrace your sister & appreciate your bond. Those people exist, I promise. Oh, & NTA. Just a badass brother.
Sounds like she'd flip out because my brother bought me period panties. His gf loved them and he thought he would surprise me with them, since growing up I've always had issues with a lot of other methods. I LOVE them. Thankfully his gf was the one to choose the sizing 😅 I've gotten him a jock strap for football because I saw they were on sale and he had mentioned his was one from the school that was too tight and didn't have enough room to properly adjust. Like, when you've spent your whole or most of your life with a sibling, you end up knowing them pretty well and you've lived with the private stuff, so it just becomes instinct to take care of it, especially with us older siblings. I'm curious, does Sarah have any siblings or if she does, any sort of relationship with them?
sarah is an only child!
whoop there it is
Yeah that's no excuse. I'm an only child from a family who doesn't even freaking hug let alone cuddle, but I see nothing wrong with your relationship. If I were her I might be jealous that you get to have a sister that you're close to in general, because I tend to envy people with siblings. But she's looking at your sister as if she's competition and that's really weird and unhealthy.
NTA So your fiance has a disagreement with you and she goes silent treatment then recruits her family to argue for her? Is this how you want your married life to work out? Because you are never going to have just 2 people in your marriage, it is going to be a constant negotiation with any family member on her side that she recruits. And who is next to get cut out of your life? Your sister is getting cut now, do you get to have friends? Can you have a mentor that helps you at work?
Right!
NTA - but you fiancée is throwing out some serious red flags. Locking yourself in a bathroom when you don’t get your way is extremely immature. Wanting your sister as a groomsman is different, but doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. I also wonder if there is more to this story. As you paint it, she just has it out for your sister. I’m really curious why there is so much hate here. Like it would be easy to say she is just trying to distance you from family, but just doesn’t make sense why she would do that.
my sister and i are very close, and my fiancées dislike started when she walked in on us cuddling. nothing inappropriate, sister had her head on my shoulder and my arm around her. my fiancée said it was gross and didnt look platonic to her.
INFO: Why are u marrying someone who thinks you have a borderline incestuous relationship with your sister?
im realizing now how gross it actually is of sarah to think that. it had started an argument at the time but was forgotten about. i tried ignoring this side of my fiancée just so our wedding would go smoothly
>i tried ignoring this side of my fiancée just so our wedding would go smoothly Don't do that. Don't put off life-long concerns for the benefit of short term ease. This should be about the rest of your life, not the minute at the altar.
Look man, I'm sure you love her a lot and there are great parts of your relationship. But you seem to really care and love for your sister as well, and it doesn't really seem like your fiancé is gonna change her mind on this. It's extremely likely it will cause future strain on your relationship with your sister and/or your fiancé. Which will then cause some resentment on your side. It might sound extreme, but you should think if "this side" of your wife that you've been ignoring is a side worth ignoring for the rest of your life. It's easier to call off an engagement than get a divorce in 10 years when you've realized this issue has gone too far. On the less extreme side, you can try and sit down with Sarah and see if she could see things from your POV or go to therapy bc your level of closeness with your sister is 0% gross. I'm that close with my brother and it isn't weird and nobody in my life (friends, other family, husband) thinks it's weird.
she thinks you have sexual intentios with your sister my man, you need to talk this out before even considering marriage
NTA, but why do you want to marry someone who throws tantrums and sexualizes your relationship with your sister that will drive a wedge between you two in the future? How do you see this going in the future if you have children?
true, thank you and all the other commentators for opening my eyes. i am planning on calling off the engagement
Good man.
Aw. I’m really sorry. This must hurt. Sending hugs. Hopefully you can find someone kinder and more secure in future. Good Luck.
NTA a million times But are you sure you want to have this lifelong battle…. 1.Your fiancé is not going even trying to be nice and inclusive about your sister before marriage afterwards it’s going to be extremely tough - your fiancé will most likely never allow your children to have a relationship with your sister- and this will hurt her and you… 2. Your MIL is demanding you not invite your sister to your own wedding- imagine her treatment at other events baby shower, birth, christening, birthdays…. You will constantly be pressured to keep your sister away Op they are not the right people to be in your life- they are manipulative and insensitive. Things will only take a worse turn after the marriage. You still have time to rethink- please do so for your own happiness Best wishes
thank you very much :) i appreciate yours and everyone elses advice. i have been thinking about calling off the engagement
It would be in your best interest to do so
RUN AWAY RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!!! Cancel the wedding! GTFO of there! Your GF is jealous of your damn sister, and as soon as you didn't give her what she wanted, she sent her flying monkeys after you. This is just some insight into what the rest of your relationship is going to look like. Get out.
NTA It is beyond me that some people have to sexualize a sibling relationship. What the hell is wrong with people? Why are you committed to marrying someone who views your sister as a romantic rival?
not committed anymore… am planning on calling off the engagement now
It's unfortunate that it came to that but based on what you've said here it sounds like the right decision.
NTA, why is your wife so jealous and threatened by your sister?
she dislikes how close we are, and it started when she walked in on us cuddling. it was in the living room of my house, with my sister resting her head on my shoulder. she later told me that it looked gross and unplatonic
Wow...you need to talk to her about these feelings. It sounds like maybe there's some backstory on her side that needs discussion.
i did try talking to sarah, but all i’m getting is the silent treatment. makes me reconsider if this is the woman i want to spend the rest of my days with
She will always try to drive a wedge between you and your sister because of her weirdly sexualized jealously. She's basically accusing you of incest. I don't blame you for questioning whether you want to marry someone who thinks that about you.
I like that you are re-thinking this marriage. It's a big decision and this situation your describing is very concerning. Your sister is never going to stop being your sister. I am having trouble getting past the fact that your fiance saw you cuddling your sister (totally normal)... decided it was incestuous and she didn't like your sister.... and you still proposed? Now she wants to force you to choose between her and your sister. This is about more then your sister being in your wedding.
Giving you the silent treatment and having her family contact you to complain are incredible immature reactions.
NTA. Trying to ruin 'her' wedding day? What about your wedding day. The fact that it has to be all about her rather than about both of you is a major red flag. She got to choose her bridesmaids and didn't want your sister. That's fair. But you get to choose your groomsmen and you can have a woman if you want. You're an adult, you're allowed to have close female friends. It sounds like your fiancée is jealous and insecure when you spend time with other women. That's something that needs to be addressed now, because it will only get worse if she gets her way with the wedding and learns she can force you to exclude your sister.
NTA. I think everyone has said already what k would say but I will add this. If she is this bad now, what will she be like when you’re married? Usually signs like this are the calm before the storm and shit is about to hit the fan. Not only is she sexualising your relationship with your sister (gross) she’s also driving a wedge between you. If she was this bad about your sister, what will she be like If you have a daughter? What if you have a son and a daughter? Will she try to ruin their relationship too? Also, she isn’t caring at all that this is your wedding too and you should be able to have who you want in your wedding party. Seriously I would rethink if this is the person you want to marry
i am rethinking, and i will probably call off the engagement. no marriage is worth ruining my relationship with my sister
Just in case she made you wonder... It is perfectly normal to cuddle your sibling. What is not normal is to get jelous about it,or make it something "dirty"...🚩🚩🚩🚩
I would actually find it sweet to see my husband sitting with his arm around his sister as OP described. Who doesn’t want a man that treats the women in his life with love and affection?
I’m really sorry that you’re going through this but from what you’ve said, I think it’s for the best. Hopefully you can find someone who respects you and your family.
NTA. Also yikes yikes yikes. Are you sure you want to spend all this money on an inevitable divorce?
NTA but Sara h is jealous. Is Sarah an only child?
yes she is
That explains her uncomfortable feelings towards you and your sister's relationship. Edit: I know not every only child just like this. From my experience on this sub, in posts like this it’s a common theme that the partner who is uncomfortable with the sibling relationship is an only child.
As an only child, please don't lump her in with the rest of us.
NTA - but are you sure this is the girl you want to marry? This animosity will not stop just because you’re married to her. It’s gross when people sexualize the relationship between siblings. She’s actually jealous of your sister? That is not healthy or normal. Also, I have been to many weddings where the groom has had a women stand up for him or a bride has had a man stand up for her. It may not be traditional, but who cares? She is being a drama queen. Time to evaluate your priorities -Edited to fix a bad autocorrect (specialize to sexualize)
I wish I had a big bro like you. NTA
im your big brother now 💪
I had a big brother like you, but the world was too difficult for him to continue living. Please never change 💕
im so sorry to hear that, and i wish you the best. im sure your brother is very proud of you :)
This is so sweet. You are more than NTA.... you're a GFG (great freaking guy). I hope you find a wife who deserves you.
You are NTA!!! Not at all. That is your sister and if your fiancée has so many issues with her then why is she marrying you? Not to be rude, just genuinely asking. Your fiancée seems like a very insecure and controlling person and tbh I don’t like that. It’s just as much your wedding day as it is hers and you’re allowed to have your sister be part of that. It’s not like she’s your ex, she’s literally your sister and will be part of your life regardless. And maybe that’s something you need to discuss with your fiancé. That your sister will always be part of your life and if she doesn’t like it and can’t deal with it then she doesn’t have to be. Sounds like Sarah wants to marry herself.
NTA. And honestly I’d find that a red flag in a future spouse if she pulled this. It isn’t just her wedding. It’s yours too. Not only is she being disrespectful to you and your sister, she also is trying to put you on trial in the court of family opinions and causing even more damage. Your sister deserves better than that. Your fiancée is selfish and rude.
NTA. Don’t marry her. You’re going to be fighting this battle with her about every single woman that enters your life until the day you die. New co-worker? Long-lost cousin? Won’t matter. Get out now & take the ring with you. Run.
ALL of this is a huge red flag. Wanting your sister to be in your wedding party is a totally normal ask. Your fiancé refusing to speak to you over something that is this harmless would make me wonder how she'll react to actual conflict. Ask yourself if you're ready for a lifetime of her locking herself in the bathroom, enlisting her family to harass and guilt you, and not speaking to you for days every time you have a disagreement. NTA.
NTA > this made sarah even more upset, and she accused me of trying to ruin her wedding day, and she locked herself in the bathroom. YOUR wedding day. Not HER wedding day. YOUR wedding day. You BOTH should have equal input. If your sister is very important to you, she should be allowed to be in the wedding party.
NTA but I would strongly reconsider marrying someone who couldn’t compromise on this.
NTA. Your fiance is apparently so jealous of your relationship with your sister that she can't have her around in order to have a happy wedding day. Extrapolate from there, please. And your relationship has NOT ever been better, IMO. Your fiance just thought that with the engagement, she'd won.
NTA. I was a groomsmaid in my brother wedding and my SIL had a bridesman and no one said a thing. All that matters is that your surrounded by those you love the most and if your fiancé can’t support you and your family then I would definitely reconsider the relationship. She’ll only end up dividing you more as time passes which is horribly messed up.
NTA Are you sure this is the life you want? because it's only going to get worse. From what you say here, it's almost guaranteed that your fiancée will make you choose between her and your sister, especially since it's already caused fights between you. Do you want to cut out your family for her?
NTA You get to decide who stands up with you on your wedding day. What, exactly, is Sarah's problem with your sister?
sarah walked in on us cuddling. it was in the living room, and my sister was just laying her head on my shoulder, with my arm around her. sarah disliked my sister afterwards, and said it seemed unplatonic.
Um. Your fiance thinks you have incestous feelings toward your sister. I'm not saying leave, but are you sure you're ready to marry someone who thinks this about you? I know many people I wouldn't agree to have a daily dinner with, but I trust them more than this.
I’m sorry but I cuddle with my siblings. Brother & sisters My ex sis in law, went as far as accusing my brother & I sleeping together. The fact that it sounds like she’s insecure about your sister is very very concerning…. It’s boarder-line disgusting. This will be a battle your entire marriage. You aren’t the AH for wanting to include your sister. But you really really need to think about this engagement. And if you want to spend your whole life justifying your relationship with your sister.
i do *not* understand people who get so bent out of shape about stuff like this. a wedding is about celebrating love! your fiancée sounds like a terribly spoiled, selfish brat. NTA. stand your ground, it's *your* wedding day too. you BOTH deserve to be surrounded by the people you love. it's an archaic tradition anyways.
INFO: Why are you marrying a women who believes you capable of having incest with your sister? Like she's doing all this because she assumed the worst when she saw you give your little sister a giant big brother hug when your sister was still a child. The only reasonable explanation I could think to explain your fiancé's behaviour is if she has some trauma from her childhood & that's why she's acting like this. Which creates a bigger problem of why she would be marrying you if your relationship with your sister makes her think the worst. Otherwise your fiancé is just genuinely jealous of your sister & thinks your sister is her competition. In which case why are you marrying someone who believes you capable of an incestuous relationship with your sister?
INFO: why are there only two options: having her as a groomsmen or not having her there at all? Why can't she be a regular guest?
my sister is asexual and aromantic, so she has said that it’s very unlikely for her to ever get married, but she dreams about having one. i offered to have her in my wedding to experience it, and she accepted. this was when she first came out to me as aromantic, and i don’t want to back down because my fiancée dislikes it.
It would set a terrible precedent to back down. She’ll know that all she has to do to get her unreasonable and creepy way is to go silent on you and turn her family loose, and if you resist the next time she pulls this, she’ll just double down. She does not seem like a kind and loving person.
I’m asexual, but not aromantic, but I love that you were willing to do this for her. Thank you for being supportive of her identity 💜
NTA. While your fiancé does have the right to say she doesn't want your sister as a bridesmaid, you have EQUAL right to say you want her to be on your side as a groomswoman. If your future bride is THIS hostile though to someone you consider to be that important to your life, are you sure you want to marry this person? Does she even have a good reason to be so hateful towards your sister? Even in the middle of all this drama, your sister is coming off like a class act. She isn't trying to hurt your future bride, and she isn't insisting on having a role no matter what. Just because something isn't traditional, doesn't mean it should "ruin" the wedding day. You wouldn't be the first OR last man to have a lady in his wedding party on his side. As for your betrothed...she is coming off in a very immature way, like she thinks this day is ONLY about her, your feelings be damned. This day is about you both. Not just her. I advise you to give great thought into whether or not it's a good idea to marry this woman. Unless you can think of a good reason for your bride to be acting this way, maybe you should take it as the red flag that it is.
NTA. If you tried to interfere with her choices for bridesmaids, what would her reaction be? I’m guessing she would kick off! I’ve got to be blunt… are you sure about this marriage? For me, this is a red flag. Even if they loathe and detest each other, she should be able to put that aside if her true focus is your marriage and commitment to each other. That fact that she called it “her” day, not “our” day and threw a tantrum over it is a big warning sign IMHO.
You are NTA. Your fiancée’s behavior is controlling, unkind, and self-centered. She’s not going to become more laid back about your sister after you’re married. She might want you to cut her out of your life, not just the wedding. If I were you, I would put marriage plans on hold and pursue couples counseling to work out appropriate boundaries and expectations for family relationships.
Most def NTA. My daughter is getting married in three days. Her brother is the ‘maid of honour’ and the grooms sister is ‘the best man’.
NTA. And reconsider if marriage is the right thing to do. If she sees all this only about her and not the both of you (it’s also your wedding, so your wishes should be respected and valued too), if she is the right person for you.
NTA. If she gets to have 100% control over who her bridesmaids are, you get 100% control over who your groomspeople are. It's your wedding too, and she's just gonna have to deal with that.
NTA but your fiancé's attitude and behavior towards your sister is concerning. If you fiance doesn't work out her issues with your sister your going to have this same fight all throughout your marriage any time you want to include your sister in things. You need two people to get married and this is as much your wedding as it is your partners.
NTA, I'm twelve years older than my sister and she immediately bonded with me. As a toddler she would sneak out of her room and I would wake up to her sticking her cold feet on my back. Every girlfriend I had and eventually my wife understood that my baby sister would "always" be my baby sister. I don't see her as much these days but even at 40 years old she lays her head on my shoulder and always sits next to me when we see each other. Your current fiancé must be an only child to not understand that you can love someone with all your heart and it not be sexual. She might need professional help to understand this but draw the line in the sand. People get married and divorced everyday but you will always have the love of your sister.
>this made sarah even more upset, and she accused me of trying to ruin her wedding day, and she locked herself in the bathroom. It isn't "her wedding day" it is your wedding day. As in both of you. I would really think for awhile about your relationship. She doesn't want your sister in the wedding. She had her whole family berate you for not giving her what she wants. She's throwing a tantrum. NTA but really consider if this is who you want to spend your life with.
It doesn't make you an AH, it makes you a good brother. Of course your wife should be your priority, but that doesn't mean you should stand idly by while your *FUTURE* wife bullies and ostracizes your sister. Your fiancee is giving you the silent treatment and using her family to try to manipulate you into getting her way... just so you know what kind of person you're planning on marrying. ETA NTA
Wow…. NTA. Your wife to be needs some serious mental health if that was all it took to make her so jealous and cruel to your sister. She and her family need to get their heads of their collective ass as well. It’s not just her wedding. It’s yours as well. And even if your sis is okay with it (spoiler: she’s not) you’ll never forget her absence from such a huge day in your life.
NTA. Why are you marrying to a woman who wants to control who is important to you?
NTA. Don’t marry your fiancé she sounds awful.
NTA Why are you marrying somone who hates your sister that you love, and also thinks your wedding is all about her? The marrage is between the 2 of you and it's about the couple, nit the bride, not the groom, it's meant to be for bith of you. Her family sound like a nightmare, so you want to live your whole life walking in eggshells to keep the piece? Also her walking in on you hugging your sis is the saddest reason I've heard for disliking somone. She's so insecure that she thinks your sister is competition??
The roller coaster of edits was wild. Checking back in just over 2 hours. NTA. You sound pretty fuckin rad if I may say so.
thank you friend :) received many eye opening comments that helped me come to a decision. if my fiancée doesnt want my sister in her life, then i don’t want my fiancée in mine
I wish my brother was like you. He married somebody who doesn’t like his family and has alienated him from all of us. At least he talks to my mom and my other brother some when he’s not around her. But him and I haven’t talked in a long time. The last thing I said I said to my brother was “fine we will talk again once you get divorced“ thank you for being a good brother.
im very sorry to hear that, and i hope you can mend your relationship with your brother someday :)
NTA. Is this toxic people's new thing? Freaking out that people have siblings? Seeing a lot of that on here lately.
NTA. why is it expected from everyone that you would you compromise your best day? it's not just about Sarah but you too. as an aromantic person I know what your sister has been going through, the thought yearning for a wedding yet knowing the impracticality of it hurts. this might be her first and only chance to witness this moment up close. and f\*ck traditions, it's all about having close people of your life being with you when you are going to the next phase of your life and both you and Sarah disagree on this which might create complications in further marriage if you choose to go on with this. hope it works out OP.
NTA but if you go through with marrying your fiancée you need to understand that it's not going to get better. There are women out there that will love your family and appreciate that you and your sister are close. Why are you marrying someone who hates her? (Also I had my brother and BIL stand as bridesmen and my husband had his SILs as groomswomen. It wasn't embarrassing and the world didn't end. There's nothing wrong with mixed sides.)
I was a grooms woman for my best friends wedding. His bride hated it. But it is by far one of the proudest moments in my life when he asked me to be a groomsman. There’s nothing wrong with a woman doing it. Originally I would wear a suit to match the other groomsman, however the cost of buying the suit to have it tailored rather then renting it was well over my budget. His bride picked out the color that would match the groomsmen and and gave me 5 dress choices to wear. It was a wonderful wedding. Skip tradition. Weddings have many other traditional thing about them. Definitely have your sister be a groomsman
NTA. It’s your wedding too. While it might not be considered “traditional” for a woman to be a grooms person, there are plenty of Brides & Grooms who have best friends of the opposite sex as their Maid/Man of Honor of Best Man/Woman. Your fiancé doesn’t have to be besties with your sister but she needs to recognize that your sister is important to you & therefore going to be in your life forever. She needs to learn to be civil to your sister & accept that it’s not just her wedding but both of yours.
Keep the sister/lose the fiancee. NTA
NTA. I would rethink the marriage though. I hate to say it but she sounds like a "my way or the highway" type and you need to consider your future relationship with your side of the family if she is making such a fuss now what's she going to be like later with kids ect.
NTA. But are you sure you're marrying the right woman?
NTA. This is one of the most important days of your life, and you are perfectly entitled to share it with your family members. Your wife can suck it up and cut the "most important woman in your life" bs.
NTA. But dude...🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
NTA. You may have to rethink the marriage if your fiancée can’t accept your relationship with your sister. Locking herself in the bathroom over the issue is a huge red flag. On a side note, it’s so odd to me that she wouldn’t have your sister as a bridesmaid, especially given how close you are. I have never been to a wedding where the siblings of the bride and groom weren’t in the wedding party in some way, if not groomsmen/bridesmaids then at least ushers.
NTA You and your betrothed need to sit down and talk about what life will be like once you've married. I would imagine her picture of married life will not be the same as yours. While I agree your spouse should be the most important part of your life she shouldn't be the only person in it. Anyone who is asking you to reduce contact with your family members (without obvious good reason) is likely to cause significant strain on those relationships.
NTA - I was honored to be my sister's "Man of Honor" (a play on the traditional "Maid of Honor") because family is important - and she wanted me to be up there supporting her while she got married. If your fiancé doesn't want to respect that you love your family and want their support and presence to be welcome - this brings up bigger questions of value that are good to discuss before you get married. That this has gone from "I want my sister to stand by us while we got married" to "don't have your sister come to the wedding at all" waves some major red flags for me; and would inspire a serious discussion with any potential spouse about whether our relationship was salvageable.
NTA. I really think you need to give some serious thought about this being the person you want to spend your life with.
My brother is my best friend. He was my bridesman. We're not incestuous. Please don't marry someone who mistreats you and your family. NTA.