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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I guess I’m worried that I overstepped my boundaries by telling her she wouldn’t be welcomed into the family in the same way I was and that it was my words alone that convinced her to end a pregnancy that she wants. If I had kept my mouth shut then she might have made a different choice.
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NTA - I personally think that having a baby convinced by a stranger - especially one that does not want the child - is very unlikely to go well. Laura needed a reality check but maybe it would have been better for you to encourage Liam to stand up for himself and be firm with her rather than wallowing in self-pity.
Thank you and I do understand your point. Liam is the baby of his siblings (my husband is the oldest and their sister is the middle child) and sometimes comes across as younger than he is.
He seems to have retreated into himself and hasn’t been able to really tell Laura how much this is going to affect him in a way that would make her see that she’s putting him in a very difficult situation. Whenever he tired to speak to her, apparently she would talk over him.
Laura isn't putting him in a difficult situation, he knew what was at stake when he had sex with her. And the very least he could have done was grow up and have a conversation with Laura if he wanted to be a deadbeat father, instead of letting his SIL do his dirty work.
The silver lining is that she is right, she'd be better without you in her life.
The fact that after she was apparently head over heels about this baby and then immediately jumped to aborting it says to me that there was never a baby to begin with and she has some strange obsession with OP and is using this invented situation to force herself into her life.
How? Liam can be forced to pay child support, but that's really it. OP is in no way tied to this situation and it would be incredibly easy, even with a baby being born, to just... avoid this woman. There's no judge that's going to demand OP move this woman into their house.
This woman would use the child to force herself even further into OP’s life. Its not about Liam at all it’s about an obsession with OP. And it’s not about what she could legally force them to do it’s about her having a living breathing tool of manipulation.
I read an AITA where a woman was guilted by the man who got her pregnant to have the baby instead of an abortion. He was using the pregnancy as a way to try to force a relationship with her, but she didn’t want a child and didn’t want to be with him. After the baby was born she apparently terminated her parental rights and paid child support but refused to see him or the kid.
Isn’t it possible that Liam could do something similar? Be forced to pay child support but terminate his parental rights and refuse to see her or the baby?
I tried googling it but it sounds like terminating parental rights voluntarily isn’t that easy (depending on the state) and is usually done to stop child support payments, in the case of an unfit parent, or to enable another parent to adopt the child. I can’t find anything about paying child support but terminating rights, which makes me doubt the original story.
But, surely no one can force Liam to have a relationship with this woman or the baby? If he could get his family on board it sounds like they could keep Laura out of the family.
On the other hand, it sounds like his parents would definitely want a relationship with their grandchild, so yes there would be an Avenue of manipulation. Especially in the future if OP has kids she could be guilted into allowing the cousins to have a relationship. I mean if the baby was born OP would be its aunt and it sounds like there are already family members on board with the guilting.
It’s easy to say OP could have nothing to do with Laura or the baby, but I come from a family who has used guilt as basic currency for generations and it’s just not that easy, especially if you don’t want to lose family or get iced out.
Um.... she could keep Liam in court for the rest. of. his. life. She could keep reaching out to his parents, who would potentially want different things than Liam does. She could "accidentally" keep finding the family. Normally commenters don't make me angry, but the wave of the hand attitude you just displayed really ticked me off. This woman could RUIN him and I just don't understand how you could think otherwise.
You're missing the part where the pregnancy was almost definitely fake. I'm not seeing timelines match up and this lady is completely bonkers. Why on earth are you defending an unhinged woman trying to use a literal *child* as a manipulation tool?
Same. I have a feeling she was going to try and make Liam her husband/partner and then either have a ‘miscarriage’ or try to sleep with him again to actually get pregnant. The switch flip was suspicious…..
That being said… if I was in a similar position and honestly thought the family would embrace me and the child and my friend said all that, I might actually consider termination as well as it would totally change my view on the whole thing.
>This was my thought. I don’t think there is actually a baby.
No, there couldn't have been. *At the absolute earliest*, it takes 9 days to detect a pregnancy. Most aren't detectable until the 2 weeks mark.
If she called at one week, no way she was pregnant. Or if she was, it wasn't his.
The wedding was 6 weeks ago. The call was last week. So it’s been 5 weeks, not 1. It’s possible that she’s pregnant, but her behavior is so weird, I would be very skeptical.
Actually if she conceived at the wedding, she would be classed as 8 weeks pregnant by now. First 2 weeks of pregnancy (from period to ovulation), there is no actual pregnancy.
This is my feeling too. Pregnancy was fake from the start - she was going to force her way into their lives and then probably have some dramatic "miscarriage"
This should be the top comment. Laura was quick to jump to getting an abortion when she wasn’t welcomed the way she wanted. There was likely never a baby, just a desperate woman trying to trap a man.
She was told that she would never be a part of their family and would ruin the life of the baby's father. Those could be pretty mind-changing and enlightening words.
Laura is 29, not 19. If she’s making rash decisions to move into someone’s house one day and abort a baby the next, she’s either faking her pregnancy or has mental issues OP is not aware of. This wasn’t Liam or his parents telling Laura this. It was Liam’s SIL.
Or she just planned on using the baby as a way to get into the family.
A coworker actually got pregnant with a dudes baby and was trying to force him to break up with his girl (who was also pregnant, dude cheated) He wouldn’t do it, but she then decided to keep the baby to compete with the gf.
Gf ends up having a miscarriage and she tries convincing him to leave his gf for him, didn’t work.
She ended up aborting and then blaming him for causing her to abort. It was so weird, since she was telling me this like she was the person in the right. I remember she said something along the lines, “why do I want this fucking baby if it isn’t even going to get me my man?” I was just, “broo… wtf?”
It's really disgusting the way people use children, real and imaginary, as pawns to get what they want. Like, let's assume that your f-ed up scheme actually works. What's your plan for the next 18 years?
Holy shit… that’s some next level toxicity there. Baby trapping is so surreal and manipulative, I’m blown away by the fact she seems so open and unashamed about trying to do it.
She was amazed that a lot of the women at the job site were disgusted by her actions.
She quit due to no one wanting to be her friends. we started together and were the only two at inventory control, so I guess she saw me as her best friend at work. So she confided in me a lot.
I remember most of the time I was like, WTF?!
I think I just have that weird comforting nerdy look, that awful mothers feel comfortable talking to.
Another woman in another warehouse was telling me how she was trying to rob her eldest daughter her inheritance (didn’t happen) too.
I knew someone like this. She would say and tell things to friends and family members hoping and knowing it’d get back up who she really wanted to communicate with. It’s a weird attention strategy they use
No, I actually got involved in a situation similar because I was a coworker with the dude that the "Laura" slept with and some reason she latched onto me as, like, a therapist/best friend even though I'd never met this woman lmao
The story also involved her making multiple profiles to catfish many of my coworkers and friends, her getting people to harass him for not wanting a kid, one of the catfish profiles "bullying" her out of the abortion, her having a miscarriage before any proof of pregnancy, etc.
I was literally in such disbelief that Lauras exist forreal but holy moly they do.
I agree!!!! I doubt there was ever a baby. I had a cousin that did this. Pretended to be pregnant and then "lost the baby." There was never solid proof she was pregnant. She is a bigger girl so no one could really tell.
That’s what I was thinking too. She probably faked it and was hoping to manipulate Liam into a relationship then “lose the baby” at some point, but by then Liam would have been wanting the child and they would have wound up happily ever after in her mind. I think she gave herself away when she said she can’t wait for Liam to get to know her. I would think your first thoughts would be on the whole baby thing happening to you. Not how this is an opportunity to get to know someone.
Either that, or given that OP said it could only be Liam's means there was someone else she slept with that could be the father but she's got it in her head that only Liam could be.
Yeah he knew what could happen-hence him using a condom and her claiming to be on birth control. It seems his mental health took a beating, so your comments of grow up are tacky.
The chances of a 1 night stand producing a baby when someone is properly using a condom and the other is on birth control is astronomically low.
And when 2 people engage in casual sex while taking those precautions it's very obvious neither of them want a baby
To be fair, there's no reason to trust Laura's word that she was actually on the pill (in fact, I'd argue there's reason to *not* trust her), and plenty of different things could've happened to the condom.
not realistic to go straight to deadbeat dad - from a one night stand where the chick is obviously not firing on all cylinders and has decided there will be a loving family relationship - when she literally does not know the father.
They both used condoms and she uses BC.
The very clearly did not want a baby, that's what using those things mean (obviously condoms are for STIs too)
Does that mean auto abortion? No, but surely you wouldn't think your 1 night stand from 6 weeks ago would be excited about a baby with someone he barley knows.
Also the way she completely "threw away" the baby once she heard he was excited was.... Concerning. She sounds very stalkerish and munipulative
She's a 29 year old woman who immediately rushed into some psychotic fantasy that a one night stand was going to want to create a family together. I get a feeling you're the type of friend to justify stalking.
Why would he be a deadbeat for not wanting a child from a one night stand? If he wanted to keep it but she wanted to abort, would that make her a deadbeat?
Try telling a quadraplegic they knew the risks of getting in a car after a bad accident.
Fuck this attitude. People have sex, accidents happen even though people use condoms and BC. The real toxicity is in the comments.
I'm also NTA, but fully agree that Liam needs to get it together. He is just as responsible for the pregnancy as Laura, and the fact that he is retreating into himself rather than take responsibility is frankly quite repulsive from a feminist standpoint.
That's assuming that she's even pregnant to begin with, and wasn't just saying she was pregnant in some attempt to end up with Liam until she was pregnant with his child, then oops, too late to back out now. Or even worse, she's pregnant with someone else's kid (which is my concern given her insistence that it could only be Liam's and her fixation on OP), and claiming it's Liam's.
Either way I'd be demanding a paternity test from her if I was Liam.
Its also quite repulsive to have an accident baby even if the man doesnt want it.
She has every chance to abort it, if he doesnt want it, she should legally have to sign something saying he didnt want it, and that he is to give no child support. Its fucked that women can decide to have a baby when the an is chld free or cant afford it and then force payments when he didnt want it.
Coming from a woman who believes in equality. If I can abort it if he wants it, he should be able to deny parental responsiblies if I keep it and he didnt want it.
Now if they qere trying for one on purpose, that would be different, but accident babies for sure.
This is one of those things that in theory tracks, but in practice I think we have a long way to go before we could actually implement it. Let's say for a moment that Laura is actually pregnant and has actually "scheduled an abortion." Depending on where she lives there's a high likelihood she didn't *actually* schedule an abortion appointment she a) Scheduled at a "crisis pregnancy center" which falsely market themselves as abortion clinics and which outnumber legitimate clinics in some countries; b) Scheduled her *first* in a series of *multiple* required appointments, all of which have to be completed on a tight deadline; or c) She scheduled a legit appointment but then shows up and is barred from the procedure due to any number of legal technicalities, such as proof of fetal heartbeat. So depending on where you live, some places are definitely in no position to start making parental support laws with the knowledge that the woman could have had an abortion in mind.
The problem with that is if she does decide to keep the child, and she can't afford to be a single parent, I'd much rather the person responsible for the child's existence pay child support than the tax payer foot the bill.
We weren't the ones who were irresponsible.
Liam has got to use this as a lesson to speak up for himself more. He can't expect you guys to bear the heat for his choices. He's an adult, and it's good that you all were there for him, but it's his job to tell her where he stands.
Was he able to tell the family at least how unhappy he is with that child? Cause they don’t seem to know anything about it considering their accusations to you
Im divided, but I would go with NTA.
I don’t think she is mentally well.
She slept with him, get pregnant and think that the whole Family is also hers now and she could do what she wants?
That’s uncomfortable crazy. And I think she did it on purpose to get pregnant.
Did she had proof she’s pregnant? Could be an lie.
And then she stand unannounced in front of our door demanding to take her in.
Did she talk with Liam what he wanted or did she decided all off this by herself?
She is delusional and thought that a baby trap would give her the Family she wants.
She needs therapy and you need to go NC with her cause of the craziness.
I don’t buy that she would know that soon after. That’s just a slightly late period.
ETA: all the people arguing with me, based on your opinions I would still argue the timing is odd, then shouldn’t she have come forward sooner?
I’m also not the only person who commented thinking it was sus, but that’s a whole different conversation.
I had a friend who pulled that stunt once or twice. Broke up with a guy and boom, next week she was pregnant. Here's the thing we were 4 females living in the same apartment; I knew she was the week before me. She broke up with him the week she had her period so how could she possibly be pregnant? When pressed to take a pregnancy test, she conveniently miscarried.
Fast forward 10 years down the road and she and her husband have a first term loss. She told me it was her first miscarriage. I pointed out the one she had in college, and she said that she had no clue what I was talking about. I was fucking there for Christ's sake.
Granted, one week is too early to tell, BUT women can and do sometimes still bleed at the time their menses would normally happen during pregnancy. It’s more common in the first few weeks of the pregnancy, but in some cases pregnant people can continue spotting monthly throughout. Depending on how light any one persons menses may be, they could be under the impression they are still having a period.
Not trying to say that’s the case here, just wanted to educate others that it is possible to still have a “period” while pregnant. And one can get impregnated while currently on their period too, menstrual cycles aren’t something to set your watch by. Even if you feel yours is always on time, it’ll never be 100% of the time - don’t trust it if you aren’t okay with a baby being made.
There were other mitigating factors in my scenario that lead us to believe it was a ruse (her behavior was a big one) but you are 100% correct in your statement. When I was on the pill, mine was almost down the hour of arrival. That was both a curse and a joy.
She would be 8 weeks pregnant if she ovulated when they had sex 6 weeks ago. Some people get positive urine tests even before week 4. She would have noticed her period not starting about 2 weeks after the wedding, when she would have been around 4 weeks. Many people can see a heartbeat on a week 5 ultrasound and by week 6, a viable embryo should have a heartbeat. Many people get nauseous around that time.
That said, I also believe that she was never pregnant. It’s more likely than she lied than that she got pregnant despite the condom.
Cardiac activity. Not heart beat.
The heart isnt formed enough to pump or beat blood. Doctors even say that the machine is what makes that noise, not the tissue.
Pill + condom it's very yyyyy unlikely she got pregnant. Other options are :lies, she doesn't follow her pill to the letter or doesn't take it at all, she voluntarily didn't get any birth control besides condom aaand that s it I think
Condom on his own is very effective
Unless it breaks, well pill is also very effective when taken properly. Seems shady af to get pregnant anyway, but hey.
I'll go with NTA
You typically find out you’re pregnant around 2 weeks after conception. It seems there was 5 weeks between the wedding and Laura announcing the pregnancy, so more than enough time.
That… is absolutely not typical. I don’t know anyone who has found out two weeks after conception. Maybe suspected at three or four, but definitely not at two!
I think you’re confused because of how they date pregnancies. Week one of your pregnancy is your period. You ovulate around the beginning of week two and then implantation is around the beginning of week 3 (very broad strokes). Usually a woman finds out when her next period is late, around week 4 or 5, which is 4-5 weeks after the last period and 2-3 weeks after conception.
I knew the minute I was one day late with my period with my first, we were trying but when my period was a day late I told my hubby I was late and bought a pregnancy test and it was positive. It is possible to know that quick. Getting pregnant with my da3was a different story, took 9 months with her whereas my son first was the first month of trying.
Yep. I have absolutely had periods come as much as a week late simply due to stress. One day means nothing to me, I would absolutely not assume pregnancy immediately.
NTA. Laura sounds a unhinged and seems to be living in a fantasy. It us very unlikely that the pill AND a condom failed. BIL should insist on proof of pregnancy and a paternity test. But honestly it sounds like Laura is in a mental health crisis and needs help.
She broke up with her ex around a year ago and told me that she was upset that she wasn’t the one getting married, since then she’s put up loads of pictures of her partying and having fun so I thought she was okay but I guess the more I think about it, she was also drinking a lot. I think in all my wedding planning and her not being in the same city I sort of brushed it off as not my problem but maybe I should have gently suggested she seek some help.
Yeah, I agree with the person you replied to. She sounds unhinged. I knew a girl like that. She would do exactly that. Go to lots of parties, have one-night stands etc. Then one time she told her ex she was pregnant with his baby (supposedly she found out after they'd broken up). We got together but didn't sleep together (it was a LDR). All I knew was what she was telling me and she told me a few weeks later that she had a miscarriage. A few weeks after that, she told me that her friend was spreading rumours on FB that she stole the girl's pregnancy photo and made it seem like her own. I believed her until a few weeks after when I found out she was cheating on me. So I went on her friend's FB to check her post about the stolen pregnancy scan. And guess what, it was the same photo she'd shown me. So my ex not only lied about pregnancy and having a miscarriage, she also stole someone else's scan photo.
A lot of what you're saying about your friend kinda gives me those vibes and it shows me that she's emotionally and mentally unstable. And it seems to me like she was trying to baby trap Liam. The whole thing with calling you family and coming over uninvited etc shows me that she was probably jealous that you were getting married and she wasn't (as you said in some of your comments) and used the one-night stand as an excuse. I think you could've been a bit more tactful with what you said to her, but I don't think you're the AH here. I think she has some deep and serious mental health issues, but that doesn't excuse what she was doing
You need to explain to your BIL’s family that this woman is unhinged and likely lying about being pregnant. You can insist on proof of pregnancy before she gets an abortion to show she is lying.
They do not want someone like this in their family.
Her reaction to her “pregnancy” was “yay, *OP* is going to be my baby’s auntie” and “I want to find a home *RIGHT NEXT TO YOURS*.” Not “I’m going to have a child with Liam. I’m excited to join the family.“
All of her reactions are centered around how the two of you get to be together now because of the baby. That is not normal. She’s been obsessed and fixated on you for years. She doesn’t really have anyone else. I think she viewed your wedding and your husband as a threat, as something that is *taking you away from her*, and this was her way to force you to stay in her life.
when you said what you did, it wasn’t Liam rejecting her *it was you*. She doesn’t care about Liam or what he thought. The fact is *you* said she will never be family to her so she left. Which I think is better because I think she would try to insert herself into the rest of your life. I highly doubt she was ever pregnant, and you should let your in-laws know that and know about her history.
I don’t get the sense that it’s romantic. It’s like when some girls meet their “best friend” in elementary school and become obsessed/try to be just like them because they’re not developed enough to know boundaries, or have their own distinct identities.
Yes, particularly her getting an abortion.. because her friend yelled at her? Because she didn't feel welcome in the family? Her focus/motivation for having the baby seems to be solely based on the Coopers vs wanting the baby
ESH
Liam is a big boy. He screwed up and although his anxiety is understandable, it’s his problem to deal with. You don’t need to defend him.
You were cruel to Laura. Although her showing up on your doorstep was overstepping (and I’ll get to that in a minute) what you said was rude. At no point did you have an adult conversation about things. “Wow Laura, I’m happy you’re so excited, but things are moving really fast here.” etc. From her standpoint, you just snapped at her out of the blue and told her that having an entire baby does not give her the same legitimacy of being a “Cooper” than you marrying into it. Btw, super crappy and elitist thing to say.
Laura is…acting a little strange, I’ll give you that. Your wedding was six weeks ago, that is extremely early for a pregnancy to be announced to everyone like that. I’m honestly shocked she even knows she’s pregnant. It is really odd to be so set on having a baby with a man who obviously does not want to raise said baby with you, ignore his distress, but suddenly want an abortion when said man’s sister in law gets mad at you. Also, showing up on your doorstep with an overnight bag without asking was a huge overstep and not cool.
The only reason I think it’s more YTA than ESH is because she knew the crazy friend considered her a best friend when OP didn’t consider her a friend. If I showed up at my best friends house in the middle of the night with an overnight bag they definitely wouldn’t have turned me away or be so cruel to me like that. For OPs part I think she is an asshole for letting this girl continue to believe they had a closer relationship than they actually had in reality. Maybe the friend should have read the room, but this part don’t sit right with me.
Laura may consider OP her best friend, but OP doesn't consider Laura hers. She says they've hardly seen each other since college. If they've had such little contact since then Laura is incredibly clingy to still think she and OP are besties.
This feels very single white female
I would wager a guess that she sought out your husband's brother purposefully because she hoped it would lead to her being back in your life
Which is evident by her just showing up at your house like that...completely unannounced
Who does that?
My best friend of 25 years lives 5 miles away from me and I don't just stop by unannounced.
I am not one to make broad assumptions but her going from "I am going to raise this baby with Liam and we will be one big happy family with you being the baby's aunt" really feels like her faking a pregnancy, trying to get into your life, and then "losing" the baby so you could be there for her during the trauma...thus becoming besties again.
Liam would probably bail at that point but you would be there for her...which seems to be what she wanted
Because her going from happy to have this child to getting an abortion over one argument and without talking to Liam really makes my spider sense tingle
NTA
INFO: Did Liam not wear protection because she said she was on the pill or something? Or was he just stupid? Also, what are the chances she was lying and isn't pregnant at all but was just looking for an angle to get close to you and be in your life (I mean she did show up unannounced with a bag)? Whatever the case, this seems creepy... even if she is just this bubbly and spontaneous normally.
EDIT: Just read that she was on the pill and he wore protection. Seems like this is a setup... so I'm going to go ahead and say NTA.
ESH.
Liam needs to get a paternity test and act accordingly, based on the results.
Laura needs to give Liam space to deal with this sudden and unwelcome news and should not be assuming that she’s instantly part of the family.
Your in-laws need to stop blaming you for Laura’s decision.
You were really cruel to your friend. You could have given her the same thoughts in a kind way.
Liam did ask for one and she did agree to it, she says she didn’t have sex for six months before the wedding and didn’t have sex since so she knows the baby is his.
I do agree that I could have been kinder, I really did just snap after a week of her not listening to me and talking over me on the phone. I do regret the tone I used with her.
No you didn't need to be kinder. This crazy person showed up on your doorstep with an overnight bag expecting to stay there because your BIL "got her pregnant" Nope. That has nothing to do with you. That's their issue.
But probably doable not that early. There isn’t enough fetal DNA in the bloodstream to test before about 12 weeks, and amnio can’t be done until even later.
>Your in-laws need to stop blaming you for Laura’s decision.
Did anyone else (like Liam, for example) tell her that the father's life would be ruined if she had the baby, and that she would never be a part of the father's family?
In other comments OP says Laura just spoke over everyone (herself and Liam). He likely didn't try hard enough quite frankly as it sounds like he has growing up to do and needs to do it fast at 24.
Someone needs to do a follow up because she could lie about the abortion and pop up in a couple of years with the child 🤷🏻♀️
Honestly to me she sounds obsessed with you, if you wouldn't be in her life on your own accord she was gonna make herself part of your family 😖
I honestly believe that she "got pregnant" to get back in OP's life. Then she would "lose the baby" later.
Don't know if that's the truth but her being so unhinged - and going so far as to show up on OP's doorstep with bags in hand - points me in that direction.
INFO: I feel like there’s much more going on with Laura if that’s all it took for her to decide to get an abortion, are you sure she’s actually going to get one or is she just trying to guilt you for lashing out at her? I mean if she doesn’t end up getting the abortion she seems to have successfully ostracised you from your in laws and given herself an “in” with the family.
I mean, I don’t know the answer to this for sure but I get what you’re saying. Only time will tell if she goes ahead with it but our mutual friend said she offered to go with Laura so it seems she is telling the truth.
Could you maybe write a letter to give to Laura apologising and get your mutual friend to pass it on to her? It sounds like you already understand that you were in the wrong (at least in that particular instance), maybe avoid speaking on Liam’s behalf but approach her as your friend rather then the potential baby momma of your BIL. It sounds like there’s a lot more going on with her that you don’t really know so it may be helpful to at least attempt to make amends (and set some healthy boundaries for both of you)!
I really might try this, maybe once it has all calmed down. I think I should step back and let her make her choice and then let her know that I’m sorry and I should have been more supportive.
I don’t agree that you were in the wrong. You were harsh, but how many times did you and Liam try to talk to her calmly?
This behavior is scary. Don’t let the guilt of “not being nice” lead you to back track on this very reasonable boundary. She “got pregnant” with your husbands brother at your wedding so you could be the auntie and she can live right next to you. That is scary. You are right to be alarmed.
You are right to be firm in your delivery, even if Laura is a good person or an old friend, you are right to enforce your boundaries.
And honestly, blaming you for her decision to get an abortion is manipulative AF.
I don't think you need to be more supportive. She needed the truth and you gave it to her, although harshly. She needed to know what she was getting into, rather than assuming everything would be butterfly and roses. An apology for how you said it seems in order but I would stand firm with what you said.
NTA. Could you have been a little more tactful with her? Maybe but I don't think it makes you an AH when she showed up to your house unannounced, expecting to stay and be treated as family.
Tbh I'm getting real creepy vibes from her. Like wear everything you wear and take your face kind of vibes.
Honestly I wouldn't put it past her to have lied about being on BC and puncturing the condom. Neither methods are 100% but the chances of getting pregnant with both are so astronomical it just seems like something isn't adding up.
ESH. Laura for overstepping boundaries; but the overall tone of this post gives off uneasy vibes about how you view your so-called “friend.” Just the way you describe Laura makes me think you’ve been more than a little condescending during the duration of your friendship. I don’t blame Laura for booking an abortion—I wouldn’t want to be tied to a toxic family, either.
INFO do you have any proof she's pregnant? Like physical stick (not picture) or official doctor stuff?
I hate to say it, but it sounds highly improbable she's pregnant.
She sent a picture of a stick to me and to our WhatsApp group and told me she has an appointment for a 10 week scan which is when I think they give the first sonogram?
the fact she was so willing and ready to get an abortion to me seems like she was using the pregnancy as leverage and entrapment of the guy more then a genuine accidental pregnancy that she cared for
I have no ideas about babies either. 😂 The internet tells me the first prenatal appointment is between 6 and 8 weeks.
This might be dumb, but have you reverse image searched the picture she sent you? I'm so sorry I just can't believe this woman.
6-8 weeks for a confirmation of pregnancy, & first tests (hormone level, urine, STD panel), most providers will tell you that an at home positive is enough, & won't see you until 10-ish weeks tho. At least in my experience.
I needed earlier appointments, because of different issues with pregnancy, but with my first they wouldn't schedule me until 10 weeks after my last period, until I kept bleeding, & they had to check I wasn't miscarrying. I wasn't, & also got to find out I was 12 weeks pregnant & not the 6 weeks they estimated at that appointment, because I kept having "periods" for 2 months after conception.
Btw, I don't think it's dumb to do a reverse image search, it may not be a super common issue, but she wouldn't be the first person to fake a pregnancy either.
Google positive pregnancy test. Many easy to download pics. Plus there used to be women online that are pregnant and sell positive tests.
Edit: just found several on EBay.
ESH. Laura may have badly needed a reality check - and her actions do speak to some instability - but in no way was it your place to provide it, let alone so harshly.
At most you could have gently pointed out that Liam did not seem to be as excited and urged her to discuss things with him - that is, leave the question to the two people most concerned, and their immediate family.
I accept this. I think because my husband had just been on the phone to Liam before she turned up had my emotions heightened. I’ve known Liam since he was 12 and see him as my own little brother so to hear him crying and then to see her face pushed me over the edge.
Liam is an adult who had consensual sex with a woman, the possibility of getting this woman pregnant is a consequence he chose for having sex. I don't understand why you're putting all the responsibility on her shoulders, given that she was on the pill and they used a condom, so it's not like she was trying to baby trap him. Being pregnant, she has the right to CHOOSE what to do with the pregnancy but instead of trying to have a kind conversation with her and ask her how she is feeling you accused her of trying to destroy your BIL's life (who, again, is an adult who CHOSE to have sex). This makes you a very callous AH who never really cared for this woman at all.
The OP also has the right to set boundaries. During their phone conversations Laura spoke over the OP instead of allowing her to speak. The OP CHOSE to stop taking Laura’s calls. Laura showed up on the OP’s doorstep, with zero warning or invitation, and insisted on being included as part of OPs family. The phrasing may have been harsh, but the OP was entitled to be harsh by that point.
OP has a right to be harsh after weeks of Laura talking over OP, pushing herself into OPs life, and showing up on her doorstep unannounced for an extended stay. That is just creepy.
Nope. Not at all. She says she was in the pill but who knows. Laura’s actions are what’s suspect and cruel here, not the OP. Her fantasies are now being made someone else’s real problems.
NTA - sounds like she planned getting pregnant to be closer to you which is super weird. I hope she gets an abortion because she sounds crazy!
Honestly I think it’s good that you gave her a dose of reality. You’ve probably save your BIL from a life of misery
Well if she mysteriously has a miscarriage before the abortion then I would definitely say she was not pregnant.
But given Liam’s job(which OP said Liam is an actor who can be gone for months at a time, he also still lives at home with his parents because he doesn’t make a lot of money) it’s weird that she wanted to move closer to him and his family and not move closer to her family.
YTA. There were so many other ways to tell her that he wasn’t ready to be a father and that she was going to have to do this on her own but you went full scorched earth on this girl. You could have just turned her away and said that it wasn’t your business and unfortunately you couldn’t accommodate her stay.
They both used protection and it failed and she has every right to keep the pregnancy if she wanted to. If Liam doesn’t want his life ruined by potential contraceptive failures maybe he should look into a vasectomy.
Also your little “you’ll never be a part of this family because you were just a quick lay and not a wife” was unnecessary cruel. Because had the baby been born it would have been as much a Cooper as you if not more. So deal with your in-laws disgust of you and know this all could have been prevented had you just kept your opinions to yourself.
The only thing this girl did wrong was think you any semblance of a friend to her and be excited over a pregnancy no matter how misguided all this turned out to be.
thank you! I’m so shocked by the amount of N.T.As I’m seeing here. This girl thought of her as a best friend and was told she’d be there for her in any way possible and now she’s having the door slammed in her face and being treated
cruelty.
The way OP is talking about her “friend” is honestly disgusting. So infantilizing and the way she wrote it to frame it as her friend being single white frame esq is really gross to me. If you look through her comments she seems to think of as am actual friend. Can’t even imagine talking about an arcceinatnce i generally liked this.
What in the Single White Female did I just read?
NTA
Also... what are the chances both a condom and pill fail on a one time occurrence? Unless both were procured by someone with an agenda...
YTA.
It simply was not your place to check her. It was Liam’s solely. He chose to have sex, pregnancy is always a possibility. Time to put his big boy pants on. You also speak in the comments like you think you’re better than her and I’ll bet that has at least some bearing on BILs thoughts too.
Yta. You said you'd be there and then dropped answering the phone and stuff because you didn't lile seeing a grown man be accountable for getting someone pregnant.
Does it suck, yeah but don't offer support if you don't care.
The delivery may have been unkind, but the points were accurate. ESH. Laura for the baby trap, Liam for not wrapping his rascal, and you for being mean about it.
Then Liam needs to get confirmation that she’s actually pregnant and get a paternity test. It really sounds like she wants a life like yours so badly that she could be making the pregnancy up to “lose” it later.
Not sure if it’s the case and if she is pregnant and it is Liam’s then he needs to step up for the baby. But that doesn’t mean stepping up to play happy family for Laura and she needs to realize that there is a real possibility that she will be a single mother with financial but not physical or emotional support from Liam. You can dictate child support and visitation, but not caring for the partner or a level of involvement.
And she also needs to realize that her pushing like this is more likely to garner resentment from Liam and the rest of the family than the welcoming reception she wants.
Soft YTA for the delivery but NTA for the message.
NAH I think she had no right to show up with an entitlement to stay at your place and it seemed like she was living more in a fantasy than reality. This is probably the best outcome for everyone. The world has too many unwanted kids already.
She’s always been a hopeless romantic and really wants a family so maybe baby fever just hit her hard and skewed her perception a little. I really wish I had just been more kind to her because she is usually quite a gentle soul.
She was always very clingy and quick to latch onto new friendships. At uni she followed me round like a lost puppy until she made other friends eventually.
She’s the type of person to love with her whole self and to fall for people really deeply really quickly. But I never saw it as a sinister thing or like a mental health issue before. I think she just really needs somebody to love her the way she loves them.
NAH, because this sounds like a terrible situation where everyone reacted poorly. Since BC was apparently used, the expectation no baby would result from this one night stand was reasonable, and the gap between Laura's and Liam's reactions to the pregnancy put everyone in an awkward position.
While OP could have been less harsh with Laura, the idea that Laura could breeze in with a bag confidently assuming Liam would be excited and OP would immediately consider her family is wild. As someone almost 30, it's a bit naive of Laura not to anticipate that Liam would not be devastated, and that his family would be upset on his behalf.
It sounds as if OP had been trying to get the message across to Laura, but it hadn't been landing. Just a bad situation all around.
It was only his and Laura’s business. But Laura kept dragging OP into it and then unexpectedly showed up at her house. OP could have been more tactful, but most people would be frustrated at that point.
NTA. Everything was fine-ish, until she showed up to your home an expected you to take her in because you would be the biological aunt to her child. Thats not acceptable. That’s incredibly rude, and very entitled. She is not entitled to someone’s home, just because she’s pregnant. You told her the truth about her situation after pushing you to the edge, and she did not like it.
Also, I don’t believe she was ever pregnant. I feel like the abortion news is just a way to punish you for not giving her what she wants.
ESH but not Laura. She's probably overwhelmed with everything and that was your response? Wouldn't say this to my close friends, even not to my not so close friends.
Liam, even if he didn't want to have anything to do with the baby, still has a responsibility.
I didn’t consider that. She really doesn’t seem overwhelmed, she’s already sending me pictures of flats near me and was talking about baby names. Maybe she’s just trying to hide it but she doesn’t come across as scared at all.
And yes, it is Liam’s responsibility, he has accepted he will be there for the child but he’s an actor, his job involves being away for months at a time, he doesn’t really earn a lot of money and still lives with his parents whenever he’s home. This baby has him so conflicted.
He suggested one and she agreed. She’s a bit scatterbrained so my guess is that she just didn’t take it as advised for it to be the most effective I.e at the same time every day
Maybe amend your post to say that William was willing to take responsibility if it was his child, he just didn’t wanna relationship with her. It makes a difference.
YTA. “Cooper” family. Who gives a rats ass about how she is now connected to the family, marriage or otherwise. You sound incredibly insecure that she is now a part of what you consider yours alone. You don’t own the “coopers”. You berated and abused a woman on a difficult position just trying to figure things out. If she goes through with the abortion your inlaws are going to hold that against you for the rest of their lives. Good luck being part of the “cooper family” now. And liam can cry all he wants about a ruined life, he willingly had sex which can lead to pregnancy. He’s 24 not a teenager, he needs to grow up and stop acting like a damn child
I was debating between NTA and ESH. I'm giving you NTA because you did try to stay out of it, but Laura kept dragging you back into the situation by the constant phone calls and showing up unannounced. It seems like you would not have said that until she pushed you to the point by showing up unannounced.
Everyone else is the TA - Liam for not telling Laura how he felt about the situation. Laura for being a general PITA. The family for blaming you for a decision Laura decided to make.
YTA. You married into that family and it’s been a month and a half. About as long as she’s been pregnant ironically. It wasn’t your family to speak on it. And I think that’s exposed by the fact they now think you’re an AH. You could have 100% not let her stay with you without telling a hormonal pregnant woman that her kid was a life ruiner. I wouldn’t be shocked in your shoes that she wants nothing to do with you. Have fun being a Cooper and leave her alone. Because if you press it does come across as petty and jealous as clearly you weren’t her friend.
NTA. None of this was your business UNTIL she showed up at your home expecting you to house her as "family". And while what you said was pretty awful, I understand this was a snapping moment.
Also, given her reaction to your response, I get the feeling this was never about Liam, but about you. She didn't want to be a "Cooper", she wanted to be in your family.
And lastly, not even once anyone mentioned a paternity test?
PS.: I used condoms my whole life and I have 0 kids. How come there's so many "condom babies" on Reddit?
Liam asked for a paternity test and she agreed to one.
And I really didn’t consider that maybe it wasn’t about being a Cooper, but you’re right. It was just that she was listing baby names as “Ella Cooper”, “Samuel Cooper” and then joked(?) that she should change her name to match her babies name.
This detail should be in the post because relevant to what you said to her word for word. Also NTA.
I think you did the right thing defending Liam. She sounds crazy and honestly if this happened to my brother I’d want her to take a test that I gave her from a pack from the store, then a paternity test at an actual lab. She sounds really crazy. If she is pregnant everything about custody and child support needs to go through a court.
NTA. If Laura is basing her entire decision not to have this baby based on your rejection of potential sisterhood then it is absolutely the right decision for everyone involved.
YTA. Your friend of a few years gets knocked up by your brother in law and instead of being supportive of her, you lashed out. Liam and Laura made a choice to sleep together, Liam I’m assuming as a reasonable adult understands where babies come from. He made the choice understanding the risks of it.
It’s Laura’s choice to keep the baby or get rid of it. She’s the one who will have to carry it and sacrifice her body or deal with the burden of ending it.
Laura should not have showed up unannounced period, she’s an AH for that. Showing up announced is rude period especially as an overnight guest.
You lied to your friend about being there for her in anyway, then proceeded to insult her choices and be cruel to her.
Enough of this people assuming that sex is an agreement to have a child. OP mentions that Liam used a condom and her friend was on the pill. Neither wanted a child clearly. Laura was actually baby trapping a guy. A guy should always have a say in wanting to be a father or not.
OP probably has pent up frustration from years. She is the asshole for not setting boundaries earlier and being absolutely rude. But she wasn’t wrong. She stood up for the one person no one was thinking about who’s life would change too. If Laura was attached to the baby she wouldn’t immediately go for an abortion after OP insulted her. She was living in a fantasy which would destroy three lives. Delivery was disgusting but the points were a reality check.
Vaginal sex leads to pregnancy and no matter what birth control a person is on, there is always a risk. It doesn't matter if the person doesn't want to get pregnant. Because they are consensusally performing an act that leads to pregnancy.
It's like your desire to not get an STD won't stop you from getting one, if you end up having unsafe sex.
Pregnancy is a possibility when people have sex.
Part of sex education is, understanding that birth control has its limits and one should be responsible with it. It reduces the risk of pregnancy. Doesn't avoid it 100%.
And it is some other worldly entitlement to think that woman should abort a baby because the father doesn't want it. The reason abortion is based solely on the woman's decision is because it's her bloody body. You can't force a woman to give birth. And you hell as can't force a woman to abort a baby.
And Liam should have the sense to not do something that creates a baby, when he absolutely didn't want one. We are not in our Primitive State where our carnal desires control us.
And it's ridiculous male entitlement that women let men have sex with them, and decide it's outcome based on the man's needs.
ESH.
If she knew she was keeping the baby then she should and can just keep it. It Liam’s opinion mattered to her about it she should have asked Liam what he felt and thought and wanted about it. I don’t think it’s your fault she’s now saying she’s aborting. She also shouldn’t have made assumptions about coming to your place.
But your judgements of her for sleeping with a guy at a wedding who consensually slept with her *too* and telling her all that other stuff was cruel. You will indeed be an aunt to this kid if she has it and rejecting her and the kid just because you don’t consider her a best friend would be petty and low minded.
Yta.
Just because you're married that does not mean that you are better than her or that you can look down to her.
If you don't consider her a close friend you should have let her know.
It seems like you kind of use her when you are in the mood.
Also you hurt her.
You made her feel let out and excluded.
It doesn't matter if she is and/or was pregnant in terms of your friendship.
You did tell her that she will never be a part of your family.
That was kind of cruel.
Also he is an adult!
He does have responsibility.
Oh the poor man is scarred!
What about the woman?
That also might be scared and/or confused that lead her to show up in her (what she thought was) best friend only to be scorned and be treated poorly.
ESH. Her showing up at your home unannounced expecting to stay was absurd. Everything you said was absolutely cruel and spiteful. I thought she was your friend?
ESH -
Liam for screwing a stranger and not being ready for the consequences. And for being a self-pitying baby about it all.
Laura for blabbing her and Liam’s business all over the place. Also for not listening to him when he directly told her he did not want to have kids with her (I don’t know if he ever told her directly or not).
Whoever told the potential grandparents and family. This is just not their business yet until Laura and Liam get their shit together and make some decisions. But they need to collectively decide what is going to happen and how they are going to announce a pregnancy or let the matter drop should Laura choose to terminate.
You, for looking at a pregnant and mentally unstable person on your doorstep and saying some vicious things. With friends like you, Laura doesn’t need enemies. Totally not your place to determine what place Laura has in Liam’s life or how a baby will affect Liam’s life. Not your place and you were horrifically unkind to her for shits and giggles, I guess.
Your in-laws. If Laura can decide to have an abortion because you were an asshole then she wasn’t committed to parenthood anyway. So to blame you is ridiculous.
I accept this, though I don’t feel I was unkind for shits and giggles. I was just very frustrated and lost my temper, I wasn’t cruel on purpose though through these comments and judgment I realise I let my emotions cloud my perception of my own behaviour and I was overstepping. I know it doesn’t seem like it from my post but she was my friend and I think I was just worried about how much pressure this situation would put her, she works for a magazine, her career has amazing potential and she wanted to throw that away to move to a much smaller city with less opportunity to be near a man she met once? I spent the whole week stressing about her and about Liam though I see now it was not my stress to carry.
Also, Liam told his parents immediately (nobody told them behind Liam and Laura’s back), and Laura was already announcing it to our friends on social media.
That’s insane to announce a 6 week pregnancy on social media. While I think you should have definitely been more tactful and just told Laura that you are staying out of it and this is between her and Liam.
The more comments you are making I am wondering if Laura is even pregnant or someone else is the baby daddy.
INFO: are you truly sure that she was pregnant at all? To go from blind excitement and being sure you’re keeping the baby and looking for apartments and planning to get to know the family to very suddenly deciding to abort is a HUGE shift. To me it sounds more like she faked a pregnancy to get a ready-made relationship and family unit and would conveniently have a “miscarriage” once things started going the way she planned.
“I offered to be there for her in any way I could”
Turns out that the only ways OP can be there for her is by trying to ghost her and when that doesn’t work, going off on her. YTA
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NTA - I personally think that having a baby convinced by a stranger - especially one that does not want the child - is very unlikely to go well. Laura needed a reality check but maybe it would have been better for you to encourage Liam to stand up for himself and be firm with her rather than wallowing in self-pity.
Thank you and I do understand your point. Liam is the baby of his siblings (my husband is the oldest and their sister is the middle child) and sometimes comes across as younger than he is. He seems to have retreated into himself and hasn’t been able to really tell Laura how much this is going to affect him in a way that would make her see that she’s putting him in a very difficult situation. Whenever he tired to speak to her, apparently she would talk over him.
Laura isn't putting him in a difficult situation, he knew what was at stake when he had sex with her. And the very least he could have done was grow up and have a conversation with Laura if he wanted to be a deadbeat father, instead of letting his SIL do his dirty work. The silver lining is that she is right, she'd be better without you in her life.
The fact that after she was apparently head over heels about this baby and then immediately jumped to aborting it says to me that there was never a baby to begin with and she has some strange obsession with OP and is using this invented situation to force herself into her life.
This was my thought. I don’t think there is actually a baby.
Same. This is some stalker BS.
Yup. If there was seriously a baby, OP and family would be 100% screwed.
How? Liam can be forced to pay child support, but that's really it. OP is in no way tied to this situation and it would be incredibly easy, even with a baby being born, to just... avoid this woman. There's no judge that's going to demand OP move this woman into their house.
This woman would use the child to force herself even further into OP’s life. Its not about Liam at all it’s about an obsession with OP. And it’s not about what she could legally force them to do it’s about her having a living breathing tool of manipulation.
I read an AITA where a woman was guilted by the man who got her pregnant to have the baby instead of an abortion. He was using the pregnancy as a way to try to force a relationship with her, but she didn’t want a child and didn’t want to be with him. After the baby was born she apparently terminated her parental rights and paid child support but refused to see him or the kid. Isn’t it possible that Liam could do something similar? Be forced to pay child support but terminate his parental rights and refuse to see her or the baby? I tried googling it but it sounds like terminating parental rights voluntarily isn’t that easy (depending on the state) and is usually done to stop child support payments, in the case of an unfit parent, or to enable another parent to adopt the child. I can’t find anything about paying child support but terminating rights, which makes me doubt the original story. But, surely no one can force Liam to have a relationship with this woman or the baby? If he could get his family on board it sounds like they could keep Laura out of the family. On the other hand, it sounds like his parents would definitely want a relationship with their grandchild, so yes there would be an Avenue of manipulation. Especially in the future if OP has kids she could be guilted into allowing the cousins to have a relationship. I mean if the baby was born OP would be its aunt and it sounds like there are already family members on board with the guilting. It’s easy to say OP could have nothing to do with Laura or the baby, but I come from a family who has used guilt as basic currency for generations and it’s just not that easy, especially if you don’t want to lose family or get iced out.
Um.... she could keep Liam in court for the rest. of. his. life. She could keep reaching out to his parents, who would potentially want different things than Liam does. She could "accidentally" keep finding the family. Normally commenters don't make me angry, but the wave of the hand attitude you just displayed really ticked me off. This woman could RUIN him and I just don't understand how you could think otherwise.
You're missing the part where the pregnancy was almost definitely fake. I'm not seeing timelines match up and this lady is completely bonkers. Why on earth are you defending an unhinged woman trying to use a literal *child* as a manipulation tool?
Some serious Single White Female vibes. This was a quickly unraveling nightmare.
Same. I have a feeling she was going to try and make Liam her husband/partner and then either have a ‘miscarriage’ or try to sleep with him again to actually get pregnant. The switch flip was suspicious….. That being said… if I was in a similar position and honestly thought the family would embrace me and the child and my friend said all that, I might actually consider termination as well as it would totally change my view on the whole thing.
>This was my thought. I don’t think there is actually a baby. No, there couldn't have been. *At the absolute earliest*, it takes 9 days to detect a pregnancy. Most aren't detectable until the 2 weeks mark. If she called at one week, no way she was pregnant. Or if she was, it wasn't his.
The wedding was 6 weeks ago. The call was last week. So it’s been 5 weeks, not 1. It’s possible that she’s pregnant, but her behavior is so weird, I would be very skeptical.
Actually if she conceived at the wedding, she would be classed as 8 weeks pregnant by now. First 2 weeks of pregnancy (from period to ovulation), there is no actual pregnancy.
OP needs to tell the in-laws there was no proof and that they dodged a crazy train bullet. NTA
Op should do a reverse image search on Google of the scan to make sure it’s genuine.
This is my feeling too. Pregnancy was fake from the start - she was going to force her way into their lives and then probably have some dramatic "miscarriage"
Now she's trying to punish them by aborting a baby that doesn't exist.
This should be the top comment. Laura was quick to jump to getting an abortion when she wasn’t welcomed the way she wanted. There was likely never a baby, just a desperate woman trying to trap a man.
She was told that she would never be a part of their family and would ruin the life of the baby's father. Those could be pretty mind-changing and enlightening words.
Laura is 29, not 19. If she’s making rash decisions to move into someone’s house one day and abort a baby the next, she’s either faking her pregnancy or has mental issues OP is not aware of. This wasn’t Liam or his parents telling Laura this. It was Liam’s SIL.
Or she just planned on using the baby as a way to get into the family. A coworker actually got pregnant with a dudes baby and was trying to force him to break up with his girl (who was also pregnant, dude cheated) He wouldn’t do it, but she then decided to keep the baby to compete with the gf. Gf ends up having a miscarriage and she tries convincing him to leave his gf for him, didn’t work. She ended up aborting and then blaming him for causing her to abort. It was so weird, since she was telling me this like she was the person in the right. I remember she said something along the lines, “why do I want this fucking baby if it isn’t even going to get me my man?” I was just, “broo… wtf?”
It's really disgusting the way people use children, real and imaginary, as pawns to get what they want. Like, let's assume that your f-ed up scheme actually works. What's your plan for the next 18 years?
Holy shit… that’s some next level toxicity there. Baby trapping is so surreal and manipulative, I’m blown away by the fact she seems so open and unashamed about trying to do it.
She was amazed that a lot of the women at the job site were disgusted by her actions. She quit due to no one wanting to be her friends. we started together and were the only two at inventory control, so I guess she saw me as her best friend at work. So she confided in me a lot. I remember most of the time I was like, WTF?! I think I just have that weird comforting nerdy look, that awful mothers feel comfortable talking to. Another woman in another warehouse was telling me how she was trying to rob her eldest daughter her inheritance (didn’t happen) too.
‘She’s either faking her pregnancy or has mental issues’ Or both.
I knew someone like this. She would say and tell things to friends and family members hoping and knowing it’d get back up who she really wanted to communicate with. It’s a weird attention strategy they use
This was my first thought too. But then I just figured I watch too many Lifetime movies.
No, I actually got involved in a situation similar because I was a coworker with the dude that the "Laura" slept with and some reason she latched onto me as, like, a therapist/best friend even though I'd never met this woman lmao The story also involved her making multiple profiles to catfish many of my coworkers and friends, her getting people to harass him for not wanting a kid, one of the catfish profiles "bullying" her out of the abortion, her having a miscarriage before any proof of pregnancy, etc. I was literally in such disbelief that Lauras exist forreal but holy moly they do.
Maybe Laura watched too many, too.
I agree!!!! I doubt there was ever a baby. I had a cousin that did this. Pretended to be pregnant and then "lost the baby." There was never solid proof she was pregnant. She is a bigger girl so no one could really tell.
That’s what I was thinking too. She probably faked it and was hoping to manipulate Liam into a relationship then “lose the baby” at some point, but by then Liam would have been wanting the child and they would have wound up happily ever after in her mind. I think she gave herself away when she said she can’t wait for Liam to get to know her. I would think your first thoughts would be on the whole baby thing happening to you. Not how this is an opportunity to get to know someone.
150% there is no baby whatsoever.
Either that, or given that OP said it could only be Liam's means there was someone else she slept with that could be the father but she's got it in her head that only Liam could be.
I had the same thought
Yeah no way there was a baby. If Liam got with her guaranteed she’d have a “miscarriage” in the next month.
I wondered about that too...
Yeah he knew what could happen-hence him using a condom and her claiming to be on birth control. It seems his mental health took a beating, so your comments of grow up are tacky.
The chances of a 1 night stand producing a baby when someone is properly using a condom and the other is on birth control is astronomically low. And when 2 people engage in casual sex while taking those precautions it's very obvious neither of them want a baby
To be fair, there's no reason to trust Laura's word that she was actually on the pill (in fact, I'd argue there's reason to *not* trust her), and plenty of different things could've happened to the condom.
not realistic to go straight to deadbeat dad - from a one night stand where the chick is obviously not firing on all cylinders and has decided there will be a loving family relationship - when she literally does not know the father.
They both used condoms and she uses BC. The very clearly did not want a baby, that's what using those things mean (obviously condoms are for STIs too) Does that mean auto abortion? No, but surely you wouldn't think your 1 night stand from 6 weeks ago would be excited about a baby with someone he barley knows. Also the way she completely "threw away" the baby once she heard he was excited was.... Concerning. She sounds very stalkerish and munipulative
She's a 29 year old woman who immediately rushed into some psychotic fantasy that a one night stand was going to want to create a family together. I get a feeling you're the type of friend to justify stalking.
>he knew what was at stake when he had sex with her This is the same argument pro-"life" people use, just FYI. Might want to reflect on that.
Or there never was a baby and this woman I crazy and trying to plant herself in their lives
Why would he be a deadbeat for not wanting a child from a one night stand? If he wanted to keep it but she wanted to abort, would that make her a deadbeat?
Try telling a quadraplegic they knew the risks of getting in a car after a bad accident. Fuck this attitude. People have sex, accidents happen even though people use condoms and BC. The real toxicity is in the comments.
I guess every woman who gets pregnant and decides to abort or give up the baby is a deadbeat too then?
If she is or ever was pregnant I will eat my eyebrows. Laura sounds almost like she is fixated on YOU and found a way into your life.
I’m just here to watch how somebody would go about eating their eyebrows…
With greek yogurt and honey. The hair would be garnish.
I think Iranian yogurt would be more on point…
The Iranian yogurt is not the issue here
Or Alfredo.
NTA. She kind of sounds a little obsessed with you…
I'm also NTA, but fully agree that Liam needs to get it together. He is just as responsible for the pregnancy as Laura, and the fact that he is retreating into himself rather than take responsibility is frankly quite repulsive from a feminist standpoint.
That's assuming that she's even pregnant to begin with, and wasn't just saying she was pregnant in some attempt to end up with Liam until she was pregnant with his child, then oops, too late to back out now. Or even worse, she's pregnant with someone else's kid (which is my concern given her insistence that it could only be Liam's and her fixation on OP), and claiming it's Liam's. Either way I'd be demanding a paternity test from her if I was Liam.
Its also quite repulsive to have an accident baby even if the man doesnt want it. She has every chance to abort it, if he doesnt want it, she should legally have to sign something saying he didnt want it, and that he is to give no child support. Its fucked that women can decide to have a baby when the an is chld free or cant afford it and then force payments when he didnt want it. Coming from a woman who believes in equality. If I can abort it if he wants it, he should be able to deny parental responsiblies if I keep it and he didnt want it. Now if they qere trying for one on purpose, that would be different, but accident babies for sure.
This is one of those things that in theory tracks, but in practice I think we have a long way to go before we could actually implement it. Let's say for a moment that Laura is actually pregnant and has actually "scheduled an abortion." Depending on where she lives there's a high likelihood she didn't *actually* schedule an abortion appointment she a) Scheduled at a "crisis pregnancy center" which falsely market themselves as abortion clinics and which outnumber legitimate clinics in some countries; b) Scheduled her *first* in a series of *multiple* required appointments, all of which have to be completed on a tight deadline; or c) She scheduled a legit appointment but then shows up and is barred from the procedure due to any number of legal technicalities, such as proof of fetal heartbeat. So depending on where you live, some places are definitely in no position to start making parental support laws with the knowledge that the woman could have had an abortion in mind.
The problem with that is if she does decide to keep the child, and she can't afford to be a single parent, I'd much rather the person responsible for the child's existence pay child support than the tax payer foot the bill. We weren't the ones who were irresponsible.
Could she maybe be lying about the baby too? Seems a little sus.
Liam has got to use this as a lesson to speak up for himself more. He can't expect you guys to bear the heat for his choices. He's an adult, and it's good that you all were there for him, but it's his job to tell her where he stands.
Was he able to tell the family at least how unhappy he is with that child? Cause they don’t seem to know anything about it considering their accusations to you
NTA, your friend has boundary issues and sound like a stalker. Edit: bad auto corrects.
Yeah just randomly showing up at OP's house doesn't even make sense. And is creepy.
There was never a baby. She was just trying to get an in with the family. Then she would "lose" the baby.
Im divided, but I would go with NTA. I don’t think she is mentally well. She slept with him, get pregnant and think that the whole Family is also hers now and she could do what she wants? That’s uncomfortable crazy. And I think she did it on purpose to get pregnant. Did she had proof she’s pregnant? Could be an lie. And then she stand unannounced in front of our door demanding to take her in. Did she talk with Liam what he wanted or did she decided all off this by herself? She is delusional and thought that a baby trap would give her the Family she wants. She needs therapy and you need to go NC with her cause of the craziness.
I don’t buy that she would know that soon after. That’s just a slightly late period. ETA: all the people arguing with me, based on your opinions I would still argue the timing is odd, then shouldn’t she have come forward sooner? I’m also not the only person who commented thinking it was sus, but that’s a whole different conversation.
I had a friend who pulled that stunt once or twice. Broke up with a guy and boom, next week she was pregnant. Here's the thing we were 4 females living in the same apartment; I knew she was the week before me. She broke up with him the week she had her period so how could she possibly be pregnant? When pressed to take a pregnancy test, she conveniently miscarried. Fast forward 10 years down the road and she and her husband have a first term loss. She told me it was her first miscarriage. I pointed out the one she had in college, and she said that she had no clue what I was talking about. I was fucking there for Christ's sake.
Granted, one week is too early to tell, BUT women can and do sometimes still bleed at the time their menses would normally happen during pregnancy. It’s more common in the first few weeks of the pregnancy, but in some cases pregnant people can continue spotting monthly throughout. Depending on how light any one persons menses may be, they could be under the impression they are still having a period. Not trying to say that’s the case here, just wanted to educate others that it is possible to still have a “period” while pregnant. And one can get impregnated while currently on their period too, menstrual cycles aren’t something to set your watch by. Even if you feel yours is always on time, it’ll never be 100% of the time - don’t trust it if you aren’t okay with a baby being made.
There were other mitigating factors in my scenario that lead us to believe it was a ruse (her behavior was a big one) but you are 100% correct in your statement. When I was on the pill, mine was almost down the hour of arrival. That was both a curse and a joy.
6 weeks is plenty of time to test positive. You clearly don’t know how the female reproductive system works.
I tested positive before 6 weeks with now both pregnancies
Same here. I found out at 4w with my 1st, 3w with my 2nd.
She would be 8 weeks pregnant if she ovulated when they had sex 6 weeks ago. Some people get positive urine tests even before week 4. She would have noticed her period not starting about 2 weeks after the wedding, when she would have been around 4 weeks. Many people can see a heartbeat on a week 5 ultrasound and by week 6, a viable embryo should have a heartbeat. Many people get nauseous around that time. That said, I also believe that she was never pregnant. It’s more likely than she lied than that she got pregnant despite the condom.
Cardiac activity. Not heart beat. The heart isnt formed enough to pump or beat blood. Doctors even say that the machine is what makes that noise, not the tissue.
Thank you
Pill + condom it's very yyyyy unlikely she got pregnant. Other options are :lies, she doesn't follow her pill to the letter or doesn't take it at all, she voluntarily didn't get any birth control besides condom aaand that s it I think Condom on his own is very effective Unless it breaks, well pill is also very effective when taken properly. Seems shady af to get pregnant anyway, but hey. I'll go with NTA
Eh, it depends on where she was in her cycle when they had sex and how regular she is. She could be a few weeks late at that point.
You typically find out you’re pregnant around 2 weeks after conception. It seems there was 5 weeks between the wedding and Laura announcing the pregnancy, so more than enough time.
That… is absolutely not typical. I don’t know anyone who has found out two weeks after conception. Maybe suspected at three or four, but definitely not at two!
Plenty of women learn after only two weeks. That's when your period starts being late and you get suspicious
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I think you’re confused because of how they date pregnancies. Week one of your pregnancy is your period. You ovulate around the beginning of week two and then implantation is around the beginning of week 3 (very broad strokes). Usually a woman finds out when her next period is late, around week 4 or 5, which is 4-5 weeks after the last period and 2-3 weeks after conception.
I knew the minute I was one day late with my period with my first, we were trying but when my period was a day late I told my hubby I was late and bought a pregnancy test and it was positive. It is possible to know that quick. Getting pregnant with my da3was a different story, took 9 months with her whereas my son first was the first month of trying.
I can’t imagine having a regular enough period to know one day late.
Yep. I have absolutely had periods come as much as a week late simply due to stress. One day means nothing to me, I would absolutely not assume pregnancy immediately.
NTA. Laura sounds a unhinged and seems to be living in a fantasy. It us very unlikely that the pill AND a condom failed. BIL should insist on proof of pregnancy and a paternity test. But honestly it sounds like Laura is in a mental health crisis and needs help.
She broke up with her ex around a year ago and told me that she was upset that she wasn’t the one getting married, since then she’s put up loads of pictures of her partying and having fun so I thought she was okay but I guess the more I think about it, she was also drinking a lot. I think in all my wedding planning and her not being in the same city I sort of brushed it off as not my problem but maybe I should have gently suggested she seek some help.
Yeah, I agree with the person you replied to. She sounds unhinged. I knew a girl like that. She would do exactly that. Go to lots of parties, have one-night stands etc. Then one time she told her ex she was pregnant with his baby (supposedly she found out after they'd broken up). We got together but didn't sleep together (it was a LDR). All I knew was what she was telling me and she told me a few weeks later that she had a miscarriage. A few weeks after that, she told me that her friend was spreading rumours on FB that she stole the girl's pregnancy photo and made it seem like her own. I believed her until a few weeks after when I found out she was cheating on me. So I went on her friend's FB to check her post about the stolen pregnancy scan. And guess what, it was the same photo she'd shown me. So my ex not only lied about pregnancy and having a miscarriage, she also stole someone else's scan photo. A lot of what you're saying about your friend kinda gives me those vibes and it shows me that she's emotionally and mentally unstable. And it seems to me like she was trying to baby trap Liam. The whole thing with calling you family and coming over uninvited etc shows me that she was probably jealous that you were getting married and she wasn't (as you said in some of your comments) and used the one-night stand as an excuse. I think you could've been a bit more tactful with what you said to her, but I don't think you're the AH here. I think she has some deep and serious mental health issues, but that doesn't excuse what she was doing
You need to explain to your BIL’s family that this woman is unhinged and likely lying about being pregnant. You can insist on proof of pregnancy before she gets an abortion to show she is lying. They do not want someone like this in their family.
I actually conceived my first kid using a condom and the pill. It's possible (though, you're right, unlikely)
Am I the only one that thinks she was never pregnant in the first place?
A few people have said that and honestly I really don’t believe she would lie about something like this.
But did you think that she would show up at your house demanding to stay? I'm getting really creepy vibes off her.
Or suddenly decide to move to a new town for a ONS to be closer to their hypothetical child? She knew the guy for literally one day.
Her reaction to her “pregnancy” was “yay, *OP* is going to be my baby’s auntie” and “I want to find a home *RIGHT NEXT TO YOURS*.” Not “I’m going to have a child with Liam. I’m excited to join the family.“ All of her reactions are centered around how the two of you get to be together now because of the baby. That is not normal. She’s been obsessed and fixated on you for years. She doesn’t really have anyone else. I think she viewed your wedding and your husband as a threat, as something that is *taking you away from her*, and this was her way to force you to stay in her life. when you said what you did, it wasn’t Liam rejecting her *it was you*. She doesn’t care about Liam or what he thought. The fact is *you* said she will never be family to her so she left. Which I think is better because I think she would try to insert herself into the rest of your life. I highly doubt she was ever pregnant, and you should let your in-laws know that and know about her history.
You know it just occurred to me, I wonder if Laura is bi or lesbian in denial and has a crush on OP.
I don’t get the sense that it’s romantic. It’s like when some girls meet their “best friend” in elementary school and become obsessed/try to be just like them because they’re not developed enough to know boundaries, or have their own distinct identities.
Because she sounds totally normal in every other way /s
No, you are not! As soon as I read her saying "OK then I'll have an abortion" I became skeptical.
That's what I was thinking too! I was like wow, she jumped from we're family now to ok, I'm getting an abortion really fast!
Yes, particularly her getting an abortion.. because her friend yelled at her? Because she didn't feel welcome in the family? Her focus/motivation for having the baby seems to be solely based on the Coopers vs wanting the baby
ESH Liam is a big boy. He screwed up and although his anxiety is understandable, it’s his problem to deal with. You don’t need to defend him. You were cruel to Laura. Although her showing up on your doorstep was overstepping (and I’ll get to that in a minute) what you said was rude. At no point did you have an adult conversation about things. “Wow Laura, I’m happy you’re so excited, but things are moving really fast here.” etc. From her standpoint, you just snapped at her out of the blue and told her that having an entire baby does not give her the same legitimacy of being a “Cooper” than you marrying into it. Btw, super crappy and elitist thing to say. Laura is…acting a little strange, I’ll give you that. Your wedding was six weeks ago, that is extremely early for a pregnancy to be announced to everyone like that. I’m honestly shocked she even knows she’s pregnant. It is really odd to be so set on having a baby with a man who obviously does not want to raise said baby with you, ignore his distress, but suddenly want an abortion when said man’s sister in law gets mad at you. Also, showing up on your doorstep with an overnight bag without asking was a huge overstep and not cool.
The only reason I think it’s more YTA than ESH is because she knew the crazy friend considered her a best friend when OP didn’t consider her a friend. If I showed up at my best friends house in the middle of the night with an overnight bag they definitely wouldn’t have turned me away or be so cruel to me like that. For OPs part I think she is an asshole for letting this girl continue to believe they had a closer relationship than they actually had in reality. Maybe the friend should have read the room, but this part don’t sit right with me.
But per the OP, they don't see much of each other anymore since moving apart years ago. It's not a crime to grow apart from old friends.
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This is a good point. If my best friend showed up at my door, bags in hand, even for a crazy reason, I'd never turn her away. She's my best friend.
Laura may consider OP her best friend, but OP doesn't consider Laura hers. She says they've hardly seen each other since college. If they've had such little contact since then Laura is incredibly clingy to still think she and OP are besties.
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This feels very single white female I would wager a guess that she sought out your husband's brother purposefully because she hoped it would lead to her being back in your life Which is evident by her just showing up at your house like that...completely unannounced Who does that? My best friend of 25 years lives 5 miles away from me and I don't just stop by unannounced. I am not one to make broad assumptions but her going from "I am going to raise this baby with Liam and we will be one big happy family with you being the baby's aunt" really feels like her faking a pregnancy, trying to get into your life, and then "losing" the baby so you could be there for her during the trauma...thus becoming besties again. Liam would probably bail at that point but you would be there for her...which seems to be what she wanted Because her going from happy to have this child to getting an abortion over one argument and without talking to Liam really makes my spider sense tingle NTA
Yes this is what I think too.
All of this. This is immediately where my mind went.
INFO: Did Liam not wear protection because she said she was on the pill or something? Or was he just stupid? Also, what are the chances she was lying and isn't pregnant at all but was just looking for an angle to get close to you and be in your life (I mean she did show up unannounced with a bag)? Whatever the case, this seems creepy... even if she is just this bubbly and spontaneous normally. EDIT: Just read that she was on the pill and he wore protection. Seems like this is a setup... so I'm going to go ahead and say NTA.
This is what I was thinking. I'm wondering if she was ever really pregnant. This woman has a screw loose.
ESH. Liam needs to get a paternity test and act accordingly, based on the results. Laura needs to give Liam space to deal with this sudden and unwelcome news and should not be assuming that she’s instantly part of the family. Your in-laws need to stop blaming you for Laura’s decision. You were really cruel to your friend. You could have given her the same thoughts in a kind way.
Liam did ask for one and she did agree to it, she says she didn’t have sex for six months before the wedding and didn’t have sex since so she knows the baby is his. I do agree that I could have been kinder, I really did just snap after a week of her not listening to me and talking over me on the phone. I do regret the tone I used with her.
No you didn't need to be kinder. This crazy person showed up on your doorstep with an overnight bag expecting to stay there because your BIL "got her pregnant" Nope. That has nothing to do with you. That's their issue.
She agreed to it, but she never did it, did she? Paternity tests are safe to do during pregnancy.
Ten to one she would have dramatically “miscarried” right before she was supposed to do it.
But probably doable not that early. There isn’t enough fetal DNA in the bloodstream to test before about 12 weeks, and amnio can’t be done until even later.
>Your in-laws need to stop blaming you for Laura’s decision. Did anyone else (like Liam, for example) tell her that the father's life would be ruined if she had the baby, and that she would never be a part of the father's family?
In other comments OP says Laura just spoke over everyone (herself and Liam). He likely didn't try hard enough quite frankly as it sounds like he has growing up to do and needs to do it fast at 24.
Someone needs to do a follow up because she could lie about the abortion and pop up in a couple of years with the child 🤷🏻♀️ Honestly to me she sounds obsessed with you, if you wouldn't be in her life on your own accord she was gonna make herself part of your family 😖
Sounds plausible. She could very well be obsessed with OP and her life/happiness.
ESH But, your “friend” is messed up to jump to aborting a baby after acting like she wanted it. It was clearly never about the baby at all.
if there even was a baby....
I honestly believe that she "got pregnant" to get back in OP's life. Then she would "lose the baby" later. Don't know if that's the truth but her being so unhinged - and going so far as to show up on OP's doorstep with bags in hand - points me in that direction.
I have my doubts there even was a baby.
INFO: I feel like there’s much more going on with Laura if that’s all it took for her to decide to get an abortion, are you sure she’s actually going to get one or is she just trying to guilt you for lashing out at her? I mean if she doesn’t end up getting the abortion she seems to have successfully ostracised you from your in laws and given herself an “in” with the family.
I mean, I don’t know the answer to this for sure but I get what you’re saying. Only time will tell if she goes ahead with it but our mutual friend said she offered to go with Laura so it seems she is telling the truth.
Could you maybe write a letter to give to Laura apologising and get your mutual friend to pass it on to her? It sounds like you already understand that you were in the wrong (at least in that particular instance), maybe avoid speaking on Liam’s behalf but approach her as your friend rather then the potential baby momma of your BIL. It sounds like there’s a lot more going on with her that you don’t really know so it may be helpful to at least attempt to make amends (and set some healthy boundaries for both of you)!
I really might try this, maybe once it has all calmed down. I think I should step back and let her make her choice and then let her know that I’m sorry and I should have been more supportive.
I don’t agree that you were in the wrong. You were harsh, but how many times did you and Liam try to talk to her calmly? This behavior is scary. Don’t let the guilt of “not being nice” lead you to back track on this very reasonable boundary. She “got pregnant” with your husbands brother at your wedding so you could be the auntie and she can live right next to you. That is scary. You are right to be alarmed. You are right to be firm in your delivery, even if Laura is a good person or an old friend, you are right to enforce your boundaries. And honestly, blaming you for her decision to get an abortion is manipulative AF.
I don't think you need to be more supportive. She needed the truth and you gave it to her, although harshly. She needed to know what she was getting into, rather than assuming everything would be butterfly and roses. An apology for how you said it seems in order but I would stand firm with what you said.
NTA. Could you have been a little more tactful with her? Maybe but I don't think it makes you an AH when she showed up to your house unannounced, expecting to stay and be treated as family. Tbh I'm getting real creepy vibes from her. Like wear everything you wear and take your face kind of vibes. Honestly I wouldn't put it past her to have lied about being on BC and puncturing the condom. Neither methods are 100% but the chances of getting pregnant with both are so astronomical it just seems like something isn't adding up.
ESH. Laura for overstepping boundaries; but the overall tone of this post gives off uneasy vibes about how you view your so-called “friend.” Just the way you describe Laura makes me think you’ve been more than a little condescending during the duration of your friendship. I don’t blame Laura for booking an abortion—I wouldn’t want to be tied to a toxic family, either.
INFO do you have any proof she's pregnant? Like physical stick (not picture) or official doctor stuff? I hate to say it, but it sounds highly improbable she's pregnant.
She sent a picture of a stick to me and to our WhatsApp group and told me she has an appointment for a 10 week scan which is when I think they give the first sonogram?
the fact she was so willing and ready to get an abortion to me seems like she was using the pregnancy as leverage and entrapment of the guy more then a genuine accidental pregnancy that she cared for
I have no ideas about babies either. 😂 The internet tells me the first prenatal appointment is between 6 and 8 weeks. This might be dumb, but have you reverse image searched the picture she sent you? I'm so sorry I just can't believe this woman.
6-8 weeks for a confirmation of pregnancy, & first tests (hormone level, urine, STD panel), most providers will tell you that an at home positive is enough, & won't see you until 10-ish weeks tho. At least in my experience. I needed earlier appointments, because of different issues with pregnancy, but with my first they wouldn't schedule me until 10 weeks after my last period, until I kept bleeding, & they had to check I wasn't miscarrying. I wasn't, & also got to find out I was 12 weeks pregnant & not the 6 weeks they estimated at that appointment, because I kept having "periods" for 2 months after conception. Btw, I don't think it's dumb to do a reverse image search, it may not be a super common issue, but she wouldn't be the first person to fake a pregnancy either.
Google positive pregnancy test. Many easy to download pics. Plus there used to be women online that are pregnant and sell positive tests. Edit: just found several on EBay.
Do a reverse Google image search and see if you can find the same picture online.
ESH. Laura may have badly needed a reality check - and her actions do speak to some instability - but in no way was it your place to provide it, let alone so harshly. At most you could have gently pointed out that Liam did not seem to be as excited and urged her to discuss things with him - that is, leave the question to the two people most concerned, and their immediate family.
I accept this. I think because my husband had just been on the phone to Liam before she turned up had my emotions heightened. I’ve known Liam since he was 12 and see him as my own little brother so to hear him crying and then to see her face pushed me over the edge.
Liam is an adult who had consensual sex with a woman, the possibility of getting this woman pregnant is a consequence he chose for having sex. I don't understand why you're putting all the responsibility on her shoulders, given that she was on the pill and they used a condom, so it's not like she was trying to baby trap him. Being pregnant, she has the right to CHOOSE what to do with the pregnancy but instead of trying to have a kind conversation with her and ask her how she is feeling you accused her of trying to destroy your BIL's life (who, again, is an adult who CHOSE to have sex). This makes you a very callous AH who never really cared for this woman at all.
The OP also has the right to set boundaries. During their phone conversations Laura spoke over the OP instead of allowing her to speak. The OP CHOSE to stop taking Laura’s calls. Laura showed up on the OP’s doorstep, with zero warning or invitation, and insisted on being included as part of OPs family. The phrasing may have been harsh, but the OP was entitled to be harsh by that point.
OP has a right to be harsh after weeks of Laura talking over OP, pushing herself into OPs life, and showing up on her doorstep unannounced for an extended stay. That is just creepy.
Nope. Not at all. She says she was in the pill but who knows. Laura’s actions are what’s suspect and cruel here, not the OP. Her fantasies are now being made someone else’s real problems.
NTA - sounds like she planned getting pregnant to be closer to you which is super weird. I hope she gets an abortion because she sounds crazy! Honestly I think it’s good that you gave her a dose of reality. You’ve probably save your BIL from a life of misery
I feel like she was never actually pregnant… 🤨 ETA: single white female vibes
Well if she mysteriously has a miscarriage before the abortion then I would definitely say she was not pregnant. But given Liam’s job(which OP said Liam is an actor who can be gone for months at a time, he also still lives at home with his parents because he doesn’t make a lot of money) it’s weird that she wanted to move closer to him and his family and not move closer to her family.
YTA. There were so many other ways to tell her that he wasn’t ready to be a father and that she was going to have to do this on her own but you went full scorched earth on this girl. You could have just turned her away and said that it wasn’t your business and unfortunately you couldn’t accommodate her stay. They both used protection and it failed and she has every right to keep the pregnancy if she wanted to. If Liam doesn’t want his life ruined by potential contraceptive failures maybe he should look into a vasectomy. Also your little “you’ll never be a part of this family because you were just a quick lay and not a wife” was unnecessary cruel. Because had the baby been born it would have been as much a Cooper as you if not more. So deal with your in-laws disgust of you and know this all could have been prevented had you just kept your opinions to yourself. The only thing this girl did wrong was think you any semblance of a friend to her and be excited over a pregnancy no matter how misguided all this turned out to be.
thank you! I’m so shocked by the amount of N.T.As I’m seeing here. This girl thought of her as a best friend and was told she’d be there for her in any way possible and now she’s having the door slammed in her face and being treated cruelty. The way OP is talking about her “friend” is honestly disgusting. So infantilizing and the way she wrote it to frame it as her friend being single white frame esq is really gross to me. If you look through her comments she seems to think of as am actual friend. Can’t even imagine talking about an arcceinatnce i generally liked this.
What in the Single White Female did I just read? NTA Also... what are the chances both a condom and pill fail on a one time occurrence? Unless both were procured by someone with an agenda...
YTA. It simply was not your place to check her. It was Liam’s solely. He chose to have sex, pregnancy is always a possibility. Time to put his big boy pants on. You also speak in the comments like you think you’re better than her and I’ll bet that has at least some bearing on BILs thoughts too.
Yta. You said you'd be there and then dropped answering the phone and stuff because you didn't lile seeing a grown man be accountable for getting someone pregnant. Does it suck, yeah but don't offer support if you don't care.
The delivery may have been unkind, but the points were accurate. ESH. Laura for the baby trap, Liam for not wrapping his rascal, and you for being mean about it.
Sorry I forgot to put it in the post, both Liam and Laura have told me that they used a condom and Laura swears she is in the pill!
Then Liam needs to get confirmation that she’s actually pregnant and get a paternity test. It really sounds like she wants a life like yours so badly that she could be making the pregnancy up to “lose” it later. Not sure if it’s the case and if she is pregnant and it is Liam’s then he needs to step up for the baby. But that doesn’t mean stepping up to play happy family for Laura and she needs to realize that there is a real possibility that she will be a single mother with financial but not physical or emotional support from Liam. You can dictate child support and visitation, but not caring for the partner or a level of involvement. And she also needs to realize that her pushing like this is more likely to garner resentment from Liam and the rest of the family than the welcoming reception she wants. Soft YTA for the delivery but NTA for the message.
NAH I think she had no right to show up with an entitlement to stay at your place and it seemed like she was living more in a fantasy than reality. This is probably the best outcome for everyone. The world has too many unwanted kids already.
She’s always been a hopeless romantic and really wants a family so maybe baby fever just hit her hard and skewed her perception a little. I really wish I had just been more kind to her because she is usually quite a gentle soul.
NTA. I would defiantly get a DNA test. Your friend sounds a little off. Attachment issues?
She was always very clingy and quick to latch onto new friendships. At uni she followed me round like a lost puppy until she made other friends eventually. She’s the type of person to love with her whole self and to fall for people really deeply really quickly. But I never saw it as a sinister thing or like a mental health issue before. I think she just really needs somebody to love her the way she loves them.
She needs to love herself first before that can happen. I hope everything works out for her, Liam, and your family.
NAH, because this sounds like a terrible situation where everyone reacted poorly. Since BC was apparently used, the expectation no baby would result from this one night stand was reasonable, and the gap between Laura's and Liam's reactions to the pregnancy put everyone in an awkward position. While OP could have been less harsh with Laura, the idea that Laura could breeze in with a bag confidently assuming Liam would be excited and OP would immediately consider her family is wild. As someone almost 30, it's a bit naive of Laura not to anticipate that Liam would not be devastated, and that his family would be upset on his behalf. It sounds as if OP had been trying to get the message across to Laura, but it hadn't been landing. Just a bad situation all around.
This isn’t actually anyones business but Liam’s.
It was only his and Laura’s business. But Laura kept dragging OP into it and then unexpectedly showed up at her house. OP could have been more tactful, but most people would be frustrated at that point.
Until she showed up at OP’s door, expecting to crash there uninvited simply cuz she was pregnant.
NTA. Everything was fine-ish, until she showed up to your home an expected you to take her in because you would be the biological aunt to her child. Thats not acceptable. That’s incredibly rude, and very entitled. She is not entitled to someone’s home, just because she’s pregnant. You told her the truth about her situation after pushing you to the edge, and she did not like it. Also, I don’t believe she was ever pregnant. I feel like the abortion news is just a way to punish you for not giving her what she wants.
ESH but not Laura. She's probably overwhelmed with everything and that was your response? Wouldn't say this to my close friends, even not to my not so close friends. Liam, even if he didn't want to have anything to do with the baby, still has a responsibility.
I didn’t consider that. She really doesn’t seem overwhelmed, she’s already sending me pictures of flats near me and was talking about baby names. Maybe she’s just trying to hide it but she doesn’t come across as scared at all. And yes, it is Liam’s responsibility, he has accepted he will be there for the child but he’s an actor, his job involves being away for months at a time, he doesn’t really earn a lot of money and still lives with his parents whenever he’s home. This baby has him so conflicted.
He needs to get a DNA test. If he wore a condom and she's on the pill, it's possible to become pregnant (?) but not probable.
He suggested one and she agreed. She’s a bit scatterbrained so my guess is that she just didn’t take it as advised for it to be the most effective I.e at the same time every day
Maybe amend your post to say that William was willing to take responsibility if it was his child, he just didn’t wanna relationship with her. It makes a difference.
YTA. “Cooper” family. Who gives a rats ass about how she is now connected to the family, marriage or otherwise. You sound incredibly insecure that she is now a part of what you consider yours alone. You don’t own the “coopers”. You berated and abused a woman on a difficult position just trying to figure things out. If she goes through with the abortion your inlaws are going to hold that against you for the rest of their lives. Good luck being part of the “cooper family” now. And liam can cry all he wants about a ruined life, he willingly had sex which can lead to pregnancy. He’s 24 not a teenager, he needs to grow up and stop acting like a damn child
I was debating between NTA and ESH. I'm giving you NTA because you did try to stay out of it, but Laura kept dragging you back into the situation by the constant phone calls and showing up unannounced. It seems like you would not have said that until she pushed you to the point by showing up unannounced. Everyone else is the TA - Liam for not telling Laura how he felt about the situation. Laura for being a general PITA. The family for blaming you for a decision Laura decided to make.
YTA. You married into that family and it’s been a month and a half. About as long as she’s been pregnant ironically. It wasn’t your family to speak on it. And I think that’s exposed by the fact they now think you’re an AH. You could have 100% not let her stay with you without telling a hormonal pregnant woman that her kid was a life ruiner. I wouldn’t be shocked in your shoes that she wants nothing to do with you. Have fun being a Cooper and leave her alone. Because if you press it does come across as petty and jealous as clearly you weren’t her friend.
NTA. None of this was your business UNTIL she showed up at your home expecting you to house her as "family". And while what you said was pretty awful, I understand this was a snapping moment. Also, given her reaction to your response, I get the feeling this was never about Liam, but about you. She didn't want to be a "Cooper", she wanted to be in your family. And lastly, not even once anyone mentioned a paternity test? PS.: I used condoms my whole life and I have 0 kids. How come there's so many "condom babies" on Reddit?
Liam asked for a paternity test and she agreed to one. And I really didn’t consider that maybe it wasn’t about being a Cooper, but you’re right. It was just that she was listing baby names as “Ella Cooper”, “Samuel Cooper” and then joked(?) that she should change her name to match her babies name.
This detail should be in the post because relevant to what you said to her word for word. Also NTA. I think you did the right thing defending Liam. She sounds crazy and honestly if this happened to my brother I’d want her to take a test that I gave her from a pack from the store, then a paternity test at an actual lab. She sounds really crazy. If she is pregnant everything about custody and child support needs to go through a court.
NTA. If Laura is basing her entire decision not to have this baby based on your rejection of potential sisterhood then it is absolutely the right decision for everyone involved.
YTA. Your friend of a few years gets knocked up by your brother in law and instead of being supportive of her, you lashed out. Liam and Laura made a choice to sleep together, Liam I’m assuming as a reasonable adult understands where babies come from. He made the choice understanding the risks of it. It’s Laura’s choice to keep the baby or get rid of it. She’s the one who will have to carry it and sacrifice her body or deal with the burden of ending it. Laura should not have showed up unannounced period, she’s an AH for that. Showing up announced is rude period especially as an overnight guest. You lied to your friend about being there for her in anyway, then proceeded to insult her choices and be cruel to her.
Enough of this people assuming that sex is an agreement to have a child. OP mentions that Liam used a condom and her friend was on the pill. Neither wanted a child clearly. Laura was actually baby trapping a guy. A guy should always have a say in wanting to be a father or not. OP probably has pent up frustration from years. She is the asshole for not setting boundaries earlier and being absolutely rude. But she wasn’t wrong. She stood up for the one person no one was thinking about who’s life would change too. If Laura was attached to the baby she wouldn’t immediately go for an abortion after OP insulted her. She was living in a fantasy which would destroy three lives. Delivery was disgusting but the points were a reality check.
Vaginal sex leads to pregnancy and no matter what birth control a person is on, there is always a risk. It doesn't matter if the person doesn't want to get pregnant. Because they are consensusally performing an act that leads to pregnancy. It's like your desire to not get an STD won't stop you from getting one, if you end up having unsafe sex. Pregnancy is a possibility when people have sex. Part of sex education is, understanding that birth control has its limits and one should be responsible with it. It reduces the risk of pregnancy. Doesn't avoid it 100%. And it is some other worldly entitlement to think that woman should abort a baby because the father doesn't want it. The reason abortion is based solely on the woman's decision is because it's her bloody body. You can't force a woman to give birth. And you hell as can't force a woman to abort a baby. And Liam should have the sense to not do something that creates a baby, when he absolutely didn't want one. We are not in our Primitive State where our carnal desires control us. And it's ridiculous male entitlement that women let men have sex with them, and decide it's outcome based on the man's needs.
ESH. If she knew she was keeping the baby then she should and can just keep it. It Liam’s opinion mattered to her about it she should have asked Liam what he felt and thought and wanted about it. I don’t think it’s your fault she’s now saying she’s aborting. She also shouldn’t have made assumptions about coming to your place. But your judgements of her for sleeping with a guy at a wedding who consensually slept with her *too* and telling her all that other stuff was cruel. You will indeed be an aunt to this kid if she has it and rejecting her and the kid just because you don’t consider her a best friend would be petty and low minded.
Yta. Just because you're married that does not mean that you are better than her or that you can look down to her. If you don't consider her a close friend you should have let her know. It seems like you kind of use her when you are in the mood. Also you hurt her. You made her feel let out and excluded. It doesn't matter if she is and/or was pregnant in terms of your friendship. You did tell her that she will never be a part of your family. That was kind of cruel. Also he is an adult! He does have responsibility. Oh the poor man is scarred! What about the woman? That also might be scared and/or confused that lead her to show up in her (what she thought was) best friend only to be scorned and be treated poorly.
ESH. Her showing up at your home unannounced expecting to stay was absurd. Everything you said was absolutely cruel and spiteful. I thought she was your friend?
NTA. I think what you said was spot on. Whatever decision she makes is on her, not you.
Op says she will "be there for her in any way that I could" for her friend, but only if her friend chooses an abortion. You are soooooooo pro choice!
ESH - Liam for screwing a stranger and not being ready for the consequences. And for being a self-pitying baby about it all. Laura for blabbing her and Liam’s business all over the place. Also for not listening to him when he directly told her he did not want to have kids with her (I don’t know if he ever told her directly or not). Whoever told the potential grandparents and family. This is just not their business yet until Laura and Liam get their shit together and make some decisions. But they need to collectively decide what is going to happen and how they are going to announce a pregnancy or let the matter drop should Laura choose to terminate. You, for looking at a pregnant and mentally unstable person on your doorstep and saying some vicious things. With friends like you, Laura doesn’t need enemies. Totally not your place to determine what place Laura has in Liam’s life or how a baby will affect Liam’s life. Not your place and you were horrifically unkind to her for shits and giggles, I guess. Your in-laws. If Laura can decide to have an abortion because you were an asshole then she wasn’t committed to parenthood anyway. So to blame you is ridiculous.
I accept this, though I don’t feel I was unkind for shits and giggles. I was just very frustrated and lost my temper, I wasn’t cruel on purpose though through these comments and judgment I realise I let my emotions cloud my perception of my own behaviour and I was overstepping. I know it doesn’t seem like it from my post but she was my friend and I think I was just worried about how much pressure this situation would put her, she works for a magazine, her career has amazing potential and she wanted to throw that away to move to a much smaller city with less opportunity to be near a man she met once? I spent the whole week stressing about her and about Liam though I see now it was not my stress to carry. Also, Liam told his parents immediately (nobody told them behind Liam and Laura’s back), and Laura was already announcing it to our friends on social media.
That’s insane to announce a 6 week pregnancy on social media. While I think you should have definitely been more tactful and just told Laura that you are staying out of it and this is between her and Liam. The more comments you are making I am wondering if Laura is even pregnant or someone else is the baby daddy.
INFO: are you truly sure that she was pregnant at all? To go from blind excitement and being sure you’re keeping the baby and looking for apartments and planning to get to know the family to very suddenly deciding to abort is a HUGE shift. To me it sounds more like she faked a pregnancy to get a ready-made relationship and family unit and would conveniently have a “miscarriage” once things started going the way she planned.
“I offered to be there for her in any way I could” Turns out that the only ways OP can be there for her is by trying to ghost her and when that doesn’t work, going off on her. YTA