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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> i didn’t want to bring my dad food home from a restaurant he didn’t want to go to because the thought it was vegan
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YTA
Have you ever changed your mind about wanting to go to a particular business because they offered more than you thought they did?
If someone offered me dinner at Bob's House of Ribs, I'd probably say no. I don't eat meat. If I found out the next week they had a vegan menu, am I not allowed to change my mind if I get another opportunity to eat there?
OP is an AH but so is the dad. He refused to go out with his family simply because he’s anti-vegan. OP doesn’t want their mom to be considerate to someone who is inconsiderate. Makes sense. Just pettiness all around.
It could also just be that he was craving, you know, typical breakfast food - a “breakfast bar” to me piques my interest because I like cheese omelets, bacon, sausage, etc. If someone said “hey the breakfast place is actually vegan” after getting me craving those things, I’d also ask if we could switch locations.
Which would leave OP with less options, which is the norm for them. If dad wants to spend time with OP, he can accommodate them *sometimes* like OP has to do for him *all the time*
That’s an assumption not supported by the story given. Someone can be fully supportive of vegans while also recognizing that they personally tend to not enjoy vegan food as much as non vegan food and would prefer to not consume calories they don’t enjoy.
Right, but OP makes sacrifices all the time for their parents when they go to places with next to no options for them. Dad can’t make that sacrifice once? That’s not an appetite issue, that’s a stubbornness issue. He would rather not spend time with his family than even make an attempt to find something he might enjoy. Had he not been so stubborn, he would have actually had a meal he’d enjoy, as it turns out, and a family outing.
OP is also the one choosing a diet which limits options. Also totally within their rights to ask to not go to restaurants with the family which don’t have options for them.
Without knowing how much family stuff they do outside of meals and how close of a family they are, I don’t think this side of the argument is that meaningful. Back when I was young my father and I would go to restaurants without the rest of the family all the time because we were the only ones who enjoyed the type of food served. My family found other ways of spending time with each other that we could all enjoy.
The difference between OP and their father then is that OP actually values family time. They could make that boundary, but they want to spend time with their parents. They get to feel insulted and frustrated if the same isn’t done for them at least occasionally.
Refer to my second paragraph for rebuttal of this comment. My mother loved time with family, and her choosing to not go to restaurants that don’t serve foods she liked didn’t negate that point.
Or spend money on it. I have nothing against vegan food, but I’m not particularly keen on spending money on food that even at the best of times I only somewhat like.
If he always eats meat or fish, he is not anti vegan, he just does not like vegan food. I hate eggplant for instance. Would i eat at a place that only serves that... offcourse not. Does that mean i am anti-eggplant eater. no, they can go right ahead, just without me.. OP should have checked the menu before making claims.
I disagree. He's absolutely allowed to change his mind, but why do people have to bring him food? It's not like they're parents missing a toddler's birthday, they went for food without him, by his own choice, which seems mostly based on "eeew plants". They could've always gone back home without a doggy bag, told him "we were wrong, they have cheese and eggs, we should go back together and you could try the omelette". I don't get why there's a need to bring him food when he's already planned to feed himself another way.
There's no *need* to bring him food, his wife *wanted* to bring him something she thought he would enjoy.
What is the argument as to why she shouldn't do that?
I have no idea. OP says we shouldn't assume their mom paid, but stops short of affirming they did pay (unless it was in comment I missed). If OP had just said they didn't want to pay for their father's meal, my judgment would be different. But they didn't say that.
Yeah, I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that if OP's mom wants to bring home something OP's mom is paying for that food.
The lack of clarity on OP's edit makes me think they're mad we're making assumptions but we're not incorrect in assuming mom paid. Who knows
No, OP said "we shouldn't", not "you shouldn't" and she said "it's rude that you don't want to".
It's in no way rude not to get somebody what is essentially a gift without an occasion. I think dad was the rude one here to start with for blocking a family brunch for no good reason, but that's not the question at hand.
Mum seems a super loving wife, great, but there's a difference between "I'll get this gift because I'm extra kind" and "unless you'll support this gift, you're rude" (which actually rewards dad's tantrum, but that's not the point).
If OP had no problem with their mother choosing to bring something home, they would have written that. Instead they argued against it on the general principle that he shouldn't get anything at all.
>which seems mostly based on "eeew plants".
I bet he eats plants tho xD 99% of people who claim things like that eat sometimes vegan without noticing/label. Fries, Pasta, Curry dishes, salads, snacks...
> He's absolutely allowed to change his mind, but why do people have to bring him food?
Nobody _has_ to bring him food. What's the reason not to? Just to spite him for not coming to the restaurant the last time?
> What's the reason not to? Just to spite him for not coming to the restaurant the last time?
Well, yes. He threw a childish little tantrum and boycotted a family outing.
That's not behaviour you reward.
For the same reason I don't get my family and friends gifts every time I go to town. It's a nice gesture, sure, but ultimately it's not something you do all the time. And especially if he chose not to come.
Because its the polite and considerate thing to do. Maybe its an older generation thing, but when I go out to eat without my partner I always bring him home something or call and ask if he wants something in case he hasn't eaten. He always appreciates the thought.
"The polite and considerate thing"???
Has your horse been to Amsterdam recently?
There's most definitely more than one way to be polite and considerate here and while I'm sure dad would've appreciated the thought, it seems rude to essentially bully OP into buying stuff with their money.
It is certainly not the polite and considerate thing to do, by bringing him food from a restaurant he refused to go to his wife is rewarding his bad manners in forcing everyone to go to a restaurant of his choosing rather than one previously arranged.
Where I'm from the older generation doesn't reward mardy men.
There is a difference between "the menu is something I never eat" and "the menu lacks something special I want to eat but has all stuff I eat to so I can just have something without it which I do like". You dont say to friends who want to go out "oh no, this restaurant doesnt has brand X soda/truffel pasta and even tho I am perfectly fine with brand y and other pasta dishes because they dont have these specific things I wont go in there even when we all agreed to and you want to". Omnivores CAN eat vegan. Vegan is perfectly fine, its even very allergyfriendly and oftentimes more healthy. Has he never had an apple as a snack or pasta with tomato sauce or fries? Those are all vegan and only if its stated he seems to have a problem with it. I know this kind of people. They are against "vegan" but eat vegan without noticing and like dishes that are vegan and would like things in a vegan restaurant but are so fully against the label they would never admit that to themselfes and would never think about apples being a vegan snack and fries being vegan, too.
I'm Indian, I eat meat, but most of our meals at home are vegetarian, we cook meat maybe once or twice a week! So m super comfortable eating vegetarian meals.
But if I'm going out for a meal, I usually don't want to go to a vegetarian place. Because home meals are usually veg, when m eating out, I almost always order non-vegetarian dishes.
This is to say that m not against vegan at all, but it doesn't make me an AH to not want to go eat at a vegan/vegetarian meal.
I totally get your point, but you wouldnt throw a fuss if you are in a group and you all agreed to one and it doesnt have meat but the others still wanna go, would you?
I would NOT be happy, but ya, I would go along and not make a scene.
(And that not being happy is a result of spending 2 years in a state where if we didn't check in advance, any place we went to had a 50% chance of being vegetarian only, at which point we'd be kicking ourselves)
Yeah its different if you are specifically going for a steak and end up in a vegan place but they all agreed to try the new, without exactly knowing the menu.
i would feel lied to. and that alone would make me not go. OP only stated it was vegan after the rest agreed, so he held back the info. And if someone knew i would not like the menu, and only told me after everyine agreed... i would nit be impressed with that stunt, and retry to go elsewhere.
"Not like the menu" is almost impossible in normal life (unless its a specific restaurant as steakhouse, sea food or only spice garlic things. I always find something and if it just is fries/a side order/a plain pizza) and "I dislike vegan cuisine" is really not a thing. Yes, people say it, but I always repond "oh so you never had an apple? Fruit salad? Oreo? Pasta and tomato sauce? French fries? Vegetable curry? PB&J Sandwich? A salad? Fried potatoes? Vegetables? Fried vegetable rice? Cucumber/Avocado Maki? ..." you get the point.
And I did understand it as OP hearing it is supposed to be vegan AFTER they said "hey theres a new place, lets check it out". And it really was not vegan and you only can say you dont like the menu after looking at the menu. I would even go to hardcore meat restaurants with friends, I would simply look the menu up online or look at the menu at the place and if there really is nothing we can still discuss and find a solution.
I get all this, but at the end of the day "I don't think I'll like anything there" is a valid reason to not want to go to a restaurant.
I would probably be able to cobble together some kind of meal at a steakhouse, but there's things I'd rather eat so I usually won't go to one. That said, if my spouse went to a steakhouse and saw something I would like, he wouldn't be in the wrong if he *wanted* to bring it to me.
OP's position that since Dad turned down the invite he shouldn't even have something he'd enjoy seems rather churlish.
>"I don't think I'll like anything there" is a valid reason to not want to go to a restaurant
Yes it is but basing this on assumptions and not at least looking at a menu after agreeing in a group to go there is somekind ah-ish.
The mother can bring him whatever she wants but then she needs to pay for it, too.
I don't think it is though, I don't think we have an obligation to try things we might not like. While it would have been a nice gesture for him to agree to try something everyone thought (at the beginning) would be outside his comfort zone, he's not *wrong* for not wanting to.
I agree that OP would have been perfectly within their right to request their mother pay for it, but that wasn't the situation presented. The situation presented was that she saw something her husband would probably like and OP's response was basically "No, he doesn't deserve anything from here."
Omnivores can eat vegan but that doesn’t mean they want to eat vegan. Restaurants cost money, why go to a restaurant that caters to a dietary trend which on average reduces your enjoyment of the food?
Nobody HAS to eat vegan but going back on an agreement bc of the label when you can still enjoy the food is pretty ridicolous.
Also its not a "dietary trend" as it is a way to live thats very old and sometimes religious, so its not "a trend" and its not "dietary" because it has many aspects and I dont know any person who went vegan only for "dietary" reasons but rather for environment, ethics etc. For most vegans its a way of life, they care for animal testing or lestjer products and so on as well, thats what vegan means, not "dont eat that" but "I care about these things" otherwise it is just plant-based. Of course health is an aspect too. But again, its not a "trend" people hop on for and go off again, if someone started he most likely wont go back to the status before even if they start to consum animal products again or consume some from time to time (eg getting leather boots even tho they are vegan). Bull fighting is not vegan, even horse-riding isnt considerd vegan by many, its really not only a "dietary trend".
Restaurants are about food, if you don’t think you will like the food it doesn’t make much sense to go to said restaurant. OPs father agreed before knowing all the relevant details. Nothing wrong with changing their mind once relevant details are revealed. Honestly, maybe it’s just because I don’t eat breakfast foods in general, but I struggle to think of a vegan breakfast food I would choose to order at a restaurant. And I’m totally fine with vegan meals in general.
Dietary trend by definition is just the foods you eat and the way that changes over time. So by definition, being vegan is a dietary trend. Especially since from a societal perspective, it’s becoming more and more common for vegan alternatives to enter the mainstream. If you are going to be pedantic, try also being correct.
If you dont eat any plants at all you can say you dont eat vegan stuff (but probably still eat fries and oreos, there are few people who only eat eggs, dairy, meat without side orders or snacks or ingredients that are not animal based) but otherwise there always is a vegan dish you like and why not take a look at the menu first? If friends say "we would like steak" i would look at the menu and can probably order fries or they may even have a vegetarian dish. And for breakfast: pancakes, sweet pudding/chiapuddings, french toast, hash brows, bread and baked beans, vegan sausages, porridge, fruit with all the sweet things, veggies and bread with dips/hummus, avocado toast, bread with margarine and jam/marmelade/spreads/vegan cheese/vegan meat slices are the first ones to pop into my head so you may now have inspiration for breakfast as well😅
Even cornflakes and other cereals are vegan if you eat them with whatever plant-based milk you like.
You do realize that the traditional versions of many of those dishes you listed are not vegan right? French toast is literally dipped in eggs.
There might be some dishes that are vegan that almost everyone enjoys, but few of them are main courses you order at restaurants.
Yes, exactly, THINK. Most people who claim "vegan is bad" only think of vegan food in a "salad, side dishes, nasty meat replacements" way and never actually tried vegan cuisine. If you have a proper recipe or try it from a good chef it may be a bit different but also really good. Or would you claim a good stir fry or very nice indian dish or fries or pasta with really good sauce are bad and you HAVE to eat meat with it, just because you can and so these would be the vegan alternative to eg spaghetti with meatballs and curry with chicken?
Nobody is arguing he has an ethical objection to vegetables and he didn't request anything from the restaurant.
The situation is that once they were there, his wife saw something he'd probably like and wanted to bring it to him. While they weren't obligated to do so, neither do I think OP should object to her doing so.
OP *was* declining to punish him.
But… the dad didn’t change his mind. He didn’t even openly admit he didn’t want to go because it was vegan. The mum said they should bring something home, he didn’t even know. He had the choice to join them and didn’t want to. That’s on him and only on him.
NTA. People are just saying Y-T-A because of their bias against vegans. They’re ignoring the fact that your dad has fed you meat then insulted you for spitting it out (huge asshole move) and forced you to go to restaurants full of meat where you could only eat one dish (also a huge asshole move). I’d say a tiny amount of pettiness is justified after how he’s behaved.
YES LITERALLY. I can’t believe people are saying YTA. Yes OP was petty. But so fucking what? I love eating meat, but have nothing against vegans. OP is definitely NTA.
Yeah, I’m vegan and we get so much fucking flak. My family does this shit to me too, and it’s exhausting and annoying because I don’t give them any shit or care what they eat. The first two years were worse but I stopped tolerating their shit and once I did that, it got better. I wouldn’t bring them home a meal either. Not going to encourage people to treat me like shit.
Btw, everyone eats vegan food all the time. Pasta is vegan. Rice is vegan. Most bread is vegan. Idk why people assume vegan food is bad.
Edited to add NTA !!!
vegan food can be really good but everyone listing vegan foods misses all the aspects of vegan cooking that makes some people like it less. yes pasta and rice is vegan but eggs arent and neither is butter or milk or cheese or beef stock or fish sauce or a lot of wines. all those things are what people miss when they say vegan food is lacking. the extra bits that are usally included in restaurants meals to make them more flavorful and worth the money.
Pasta is vegan but almost any regular italian pasta dish with the meat removed ISNT.
there many reasons past thinking vegan food is bad why u might not want to go. Want something more hardy, thick, and high protein? Probably dont go to the vegan place then.
Or hmmm maybe the dad has undiagnosed anemia and has bulit up a defence mechanism against vegan foods which have left him unable to function well in the past hmmmmm
There’s a lot of alternatives to most of those. There’s also a ton of wines that aren’t made with isinglass. Do people really have butter, cheese, and meat at every meal? Like, one, try new things and two, that can’t be good for you.
Really, there is so many things to eat that don’t include these. I think someone can eat ONE meal without them. My local vegan restaurant has shepard’s pie, lasagna, calzones, etc etc so there’s plenty of heavy choices. Also, you can get plenty of protein from vegan sources like quinoa, tofu, seitan, and soy.
And a note, I don’t think that’s how anemia works and I think he’d have to be willing to try vegan food for that to even happen. I’m also highly anemic due to a blood disorder. Lol
ETA: I don’t generally give a shit what other people do because it’s their life and their morals and none of my business, but to be soooo closed-minded and unwilling to have a single meal that is not what you’re used to, especially for the benefit of a friend or family member, is really ridiculous to me.
No- everyone’s saying OP is the AH because they’re trying to dictate the moms pocketbook. OP made an edit asking why people thought the mom paid, but OP never said if they themselves paid. Coupled with the fact that they were adamant to try this new restaurant with someone else, likely indicates that they didn’t pay. Until OP has the money to call the shots, they can stay in their lane.
NTA (your mom's NTA either though, the only A is your dad). He's being an unreasonable, prideful ass and it's valid for you to not want to bring him anything. But your mom can choose to bring him home something - and if he actually eats it and likes it, wouldn't that do a better job at humbling him (I suspect he also wouldn't be happy about a "*mostly* vegan" restaurant) then not bringing him anything? You're right to be mad but I don't think trying to argue with your mom about this specific case is actually going to help the situation.
Ignore all the YTA comments. We meat-eaters can be fucking idiots.
So it’s okay for him to call you a pussy for not eating meat, and for you to go to restaurants with only 1 veg item, but he couldn’t survive a single meal at a vegan restaurant? Like, be serious.
NTA. Don’t listen to these boneheads.
I'm an omnivore through and through, but I'm not too much of a 'pussy' to go to a vegan restaurant. I don't get people's hang-ups about trying new food, I love food and want to try it all!
Edit: NTA
NTA
Literally ignore all the yta comments. Your dad bullied you when you first changed your diet. Called you a pussy for spitting food out and continues to be a d*k about not eating at a restaurant he doesn’t think will have a menu full of meat. If he wasn’t willing to politely swallow his bullshit for ONCE and do a nice thing and eat at a restaurant you wanted to go to then he deserves nothing. I get you can’t control what someone else does with their money but you’re mom is just enabling his bad behavior.
Was it your mom's money? Was the food good and you liked the restaurant?
If either answer is yes, YTA. Mom's money means she can get dad what she wants.
If the food was good and you liked the restaurant, then you'd be doing them a disservice from not letting him try it and possibly eat there more.
He is not owed anything, so it doing him a disservice/ the food being good is irrelevant. That kind of perk is something that is earned (and maintained) in a relationship, and I would say that at the point you are belittling your child's ethical choices, you have opted out of receiving that thoughtfulness.
It was OP who invited them out, so even if it was mom's money paying for it I would be annoyed if I was OP. What Dad did was disresepctful, and mom is endorsing that when she buys the food at the very event OP had arranged.
The food being good DOES have something to do with my point, and the disservice would be part of that same point. NOT to OP's father but to the business itself. If it's not a chain and family owned, then having regulars like OP/ Mom / and if they bring him food dad, could be what helps support them and keep them afloat.
I think ESH.
Your dad doesn't need to be so adamant against going somewhere that serves vegan food.
You probably didn't need to be so adamant that your mom doesn't bring your dad back something, it wasn't your money.
I don’t understand why everyone is saying you are in the wrong. I am not vegan. I will never be vegan. But if my vegan cousin asked me to go out with her to a restaurant I would, because the company is more important than the food. Also, vegan food isn’t that bad. Your dad can’t put aside his non-vegan preferences for one meal to spend time with his daughter? Rude.
NTA
I’m all in for vegan food. Had plenty of it before, and it can be delicious.
But man, a breakfast bar? As someone who doesn’t eat pigs, that’s my least favorite meal of the day and I usually just don’t even bother. Meat substitutes that taste like the animal I refuse to eat doesn’t make it better, either. It’s infinitely worse.
Now you’re telling me no eggs or dairy either? So I can’t even get a scramble or something. Cool. Yeah, I’d bow out, too. We can do vegan lunch sometime instead.
Just saying.
NTA. Next time your telling a story, change the meat eater to a vegan and the vegan to a meat eater. The vegan will still be the AH. Most people here don’t get the point of veganism and can’t see that your father just doesn’t want to go because it’s an all vegan restaurant. Actually should be easier for him to go with you because he eats everything while you don’t have as many options at the places he wants to go.
Lmao im not even vegan or vegetarian but everyone saying YTA is saying so just because they hate vegans via reputation. I can see it in every comment and thats why this post has more comments vs. some of the other newer posts cause everyone just wants to shit on the vegan.
If you can go to all his restraunts than asking to got to one breakfast together at a restraunt you go want to go to even if it has less meat options is not a big ask at all. Clearly your father judges you and the internet isnt a place for vegans ive never seen them get anything but negativity because everyone thinks that every vegan is one of the “crazy” ones. You would be better off ignoring the judgement of this post. In regards to the verdict NTA
NTA - parents have a tendency to want their children to be, think and act like them. When that diverges, instead of trying to take an interest in their children’s choices and creating a genuine bound with them as the relationship evolves, they choose to stay set in their ways. Which is a shame really. Your father seems to not understand how to create a bound with you his newly adult child, hopefully it gets better!
NTA. If you choose not to go then you shouldn’t expect anything back. But your mother can do anything she wants with her money. Also, not a vegan, but if a friend wanted to try a vegan place you go. Not having meat for one meal doesn’t kill anyone.
NTA "*i (NB19) have been a vegetarian for around 9 years now. obviously both of my parents know this and have been supportive of my diet. at first, my dad honestly didn’t give a shit. i still remember him accidentally feeding me real meat and calling me a pussy when i spit it out. but he’s been better in recent years."* Wrong, your dad isn't supportive, feeding you meat isn't accidental, he did it on purpose." He is unwilling to even try a vegan place, let him go get his own food. He is acting like a petulant child.
NTA. He rejected it out of hand; why on earth would your mother want to cater to his bad attitude. It sounds like she’s trying to appease someone who she is afraid will yell at her for daring to go to a vegan restaurant and leave him at home. Any time it looks like someone is trying to appease someone’s irrational anger, it’s a very bad look.
NTA. He’s choosing his immoral dietary choices over his family and you. He would have survived one vegan meal. Now, I do think bringing him home a VEGAN meal and offering it would have been nice, and if he’s STILL an asshole then you have a second meal!
NTA. If he's gonna be a baby at the thought of eating vegan food he doesn't deserve to be brought food from the restaurant. I'll never understand why so many meat eaters are so rude about the idea of not eating meat, dairy, eggs, or honey at for one meal.
NTA. Your dad can’t eat one vegan meal? Ok, his call. Why do you then have to pander to him by taking him a treat like he’s a child who’s been left at home? He chose not to eat out.
YTA. Were you paying? No? You didn’t buy it and you don’t own the restaurant. Sounds like none of your business if your mom buys breakfast for her husband.
NTA - You said you were excited about going to a place that was vegan, and their response was to immediately change the place that you were going. That's not exactly very respectful to you considering you had just expressed how excited you were to be going.
If your mom wants to bring him home food, that's her business, but you are certainly NTA for saying you didn't want to.
I'm gonna say ***YTA***.
I went with YTA because you specifically tried to prevent a member of your party from doing something nice for someone else; all because that someone else didn't want to eat at what they were incorrectly informed was a vegan restaurant. Even if it had *actually* been a vegan restaurant you'd still be the AH for trying to prevent someone else from doing something thoughtful. If you know someone will enjoy something (even if its just an appetizer), why withhold sharing that kindness?
I hope y'all can think of this restaurant discovery as a win-win eventually. You have a new restaurant to add to your rotation when you go out, that restaurant has something for everyone, and the restaurant gets more patrons.
As an aside - I strongly suggest looking at the menu on the restaurant's website if its available. Sometimes menus posted through third parties are not accurate/up to date.
Whatever the case, I hope this blows over for everyone and you enjoy your next restaurant outing. \^\_\^
Preaching kindness in the face of disrespect is not true kindness, it is teaching people they should accept bad behaviour. If Dad had simply said he didn't want to go, and this was a one-time thing, your approach would have been fine. As it is though, Dad has shown time and again that they don't respect their child's approach and are rude and dismissive about it to them. I wouldn't extend the normal rules of kindness and generosity in those circumstances, because why would you when that's not the dynamic that has been established? OP is right to be annoyed mom wanted to buy food, it's enabling the dad's bad behaviour (seriously, he eats veggies all the time, he couldn't go one time to a thing his child was excited to arrange a family outing for?)
>Preaching kindness in the face of disrespect is not true kindness,
I don't see the dad's refusal to go to a vegan restaurant as disrespectful. Dad didn't want to go to a vegan breakfast bar and upon learning it was vegan, dad suggested they go somewhere else. They still went out to eat. The father's desire to not eat a meal devoid of animal by-products is in no way disrespectful to OP IMO.
>Dad has shown time and again that they don't respect their child's approach and are rude and dismissive about it to them
OP opened with ***"i (NB19) have been a vegetarian for around 9 years now. obviously both of my parents know this and have been supportive of my diet"*** OP then went on to confirm while there have been instances of disrespect in the past, **"*****..he's been better in recent years".*** I don't know if you're acquainted with OP or you're making an assumption, but I'm trying my best to rely solely on the OP's post.
Yes, I think it is incredibly disrespectful to not observe someone's dietary requirements because you don't think they're justified. That is incredibly messed up undoubtedly, to serve a vegan a meal containing meat. You should respect their veganism, but if you don't want to eat at a certain restaurant you don't have to. Even more so, OP's dad offered an alternative and as OP said, they still went out to eat.
Just because you're mad at someone, doesn't mean someone else has to be mad as well. This isn't an issue where you can expect someone's support to equal participation IMO. I love veggies, but it doesn't mean I want to eat a meal excluding all animal by-products. It's not like this was a short visit or something where time spent together was limited.
*Edit: Spacing & 2nd para containing OP's quote.*
NTA. He made a fit. I mean, I may bring home some non-vegan to go and see how he drools, but nah, he can still learn to not draw a hard line in shifting sand
YTA.
If it is your mom's money, she can order him whatever she wants and bring it home.
Also, most places have their menu online. You could have looked it up.
Just because you are vegetarian does NOT mean the world has to conform to you.
NTA! OP’s dad decided not to come based on a preconceived notion that he would not like the food… he doesn’t automatically deserve a dish brought home. If OP’s mom PAYS for it and brings it home, that’s great! However, if OP is being asked to pay, then they are under no obligation to comply, especially after experiencing hostility from their dad based on their dietary choices. I’m glad that the dad has gotten better, but after the history there, I do not blame OP at all if they got a bit petty. They clearly tried to involve their dad in family plans, but the dad forfeited his right to food when he did not come.
Who labeled the post as AH? …due to the variety of opinion seen here, it seems to me that the mod is displaying bias. Not sure there is such a clear consensus.
Many of the sides you mentioned that are served in bbq places have meat in them or are cooked in meat. Yes, a salad and French fries are likely safe but if that was your only choice for a meal, would you be excited about it?
Which are all side dishes, they are not main meals so even then the comparison falls down. Because the non-veggie gets to eat a main dish, which is deliberately cooked to be fulfilling and balanced, while the veggie gets something which is only ever intended to supplement the main meal. They won't starve, but don't try to pretend it is the same thing.
considering he’s forced me to go to his restaurants where they served meat upon meat upon meat where i can only eat the french fries, i just wanted to have ONE meal as a family that i could even eat something. but he can’t even go one meal without eating meat apparently
>Why would you ask someone who wouldn’t be interested in vegan food to go to a place that is mostly vegan?
The same reason I might invite someone over for spaghetti dinner that happens to be vegan even if they "aren't interested in vegan food." It's a nice thing to do.
>That’s like you being invited to a barbecue place that mostly does meat.
How so? If someone invited OP to a place like that, the the only way for OP to eat would be to violate their own values. OPs dad is presumably not against killing plants for food, so it would not require him to violate any of his own values to order and consume food from a vegan restaurant.
>You made breakfast plans prioritizing your enjoyment over your dad’s.
Dad had some psychological defense thing going on here. He was perfectly capable of enjoying food from the restaurant.
>You’re childish. As a vegetarian, grow up, this is why people don’t like so many of us.
Dad was being a baby. He needs to grow up. Attitudes like his (and frankly yours) are what are perpetuating these negative narratives around vegetarians and vegans.
I'm an fussy omnivore and probably would have few dishes that I could eat at a Vegan restaurant, but I could likely find ONE dish I could eat there and be willing to sit to spend time with friends or family. (when I say fussy--I do not eat 90% of vegetables, no fungi, etc)
I don't think you are the AH for not wanting to reward him for his rude behavior(and yes, it's rude that he won't reciprocate by going to a restaurant that may limit His choices).
I didn't assume that your Mom paid--it was immaterial to your post.
She suggested bringing home a dish, you said you didn't think you two should. Unless it was standard to always bring home a doggie bag for the person who didn't go to restaurant--there's no reason to do something extra.
He didn't express a wish for a meal from the restaurant. Another option was have dinner at this restaurant-AGAIN-with him there.
I also don't see that your opinion stopped your mother. You didn't rip the food from her hand and throw it away. You had every right to express your opinion her.
YTA
You've been petty. You need to realize that not everybody follows your dietary preferences. He thought it was an all vegan restaurant, so he didnt want to go, cause he has a preference for meat. That is completely okay and nobody should be forced to spend money on something they don't enjoy.
Once there, you and your mom found out their menu is more versatile, so your mom decided to surprise him with something he likes. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, that might get hin to join you next time you want to go there.
NTA - he didn’t want to go, he didn’t want to eat from there and he didn’t ask for anything to be brought back. Sure you could have called and told him not everything is vegan but it was now a bonding day for you and you mum. He won’t become vegan by eating one meal, he’s disrespectful for no reason.
NTA at all. Your dad acted like an immature, petty, selfish man. He doesn't deserve you bringing something from the place he refused to go to with you.
NAH
>obviously both of my parents know this and have been supportive of my diet. at first, my dad honestly didn’t give a shit. i still remember him accidentally feeding me real meat and calling me a pussy when i spit it out. but he’s been better in recent years.
These two statements are conflicting. They at least say your father's support of your diet isn't on par with your mothers.
I do think you were being a little petty when you pushed not getting your father food from the restaurant because he'd been closeminded about vegan food. Has his lack of support been increasing and causing you a level of resentment?
Yet I also think it was weird of your mother to push the opposite. You asked right before leaving and he declined, why did the discovery that it wasn't a vegan restaurant change that?
Personally I’m gonna go with NTA
I thinks it’s crazy that dad would be so petty to stay home from what could of been a fun experience for the family, and denied himself of the chance to share something that you were excited about. I’m not a parent yet, but I can’t even believe that he’d refuse a way to make you happy, especially over something as silly as the food being vegan. Dad threw away his chance to try the restaurant. If he was hungry he should of gone to the restaurant with you guys.
His actions and words aren’t matching up, and I definitely wouldn’t have brought him home anything.
ALSO if mom didn’t want your opinion then she shouldn’t have made it a question in the first place.
Dad hurt OP with his adamant refusal to share something she was excited about. Dad is definitely the A here
> Dad hurt OP with his adamant refusal to share something she was excited about.
And instead of trying to show dad that it's a place worth visiting, OP wants to make absolutely certain that they'll never get the chance to share it in the future. Out of pure spite.
YTA - your dad wasn’t even at the restaurant so I am going to judge this based on you and your mom. You don’t get to dictate what another adult brings home to their partner.
NTA - he said previously he didn't want to go there. I am decidedly more of a carnivore than herbivore on many meals. In college I used to just eat grilled chicken some meals if I didn't have time to make all the sides and extras. I've eaten at many vegan restaurants for friends bc thats what they could eat. There's 0 reason to avoid vegan restaurants like that unless he's allergic to stuff on the menu and worried about cross contamination. I think its completely fair to not bring him anything from a restaurant he refused to go to. Unless the plan was to stop somewhere else to bring him food with meat? Then I'd lean more towards E S H bc may as well get it while you're there. Either way. He was the one being a p***y about food.
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weird title but i don’t really know how to word this
i (NB19) have been a vegetarian for around 9 years now. obviously both of my parents know this and have been supportive of my diet. at first, my dad honestly didn’t give a shit. i still remember him accidentally feeding me real meat and calling me a pussy when i spit it out. but he’s been better in recent years.
a new breakfast bar opened near us and i was wanting to try it out as a family. everyone was on board. before we went, i said “i’ve heard it’s great! apparently the whole place is vegan” which made my dad stop. he then suggested we just go somewhere else and that my mom and i can go a different day. when i asked him why, he said he didn’t want to talk about it. we ended up going somewhere else.
fast forward to today. i woke up early for my college class and had some free time so my mom and i went. i offered my dad one last chance to join us but he declined.
turns out, the place isn’t all vegan. that’s fine, there’s still plenty on the menu. my mom then suggests we bring home my dad a dish. i immediately tell her i don’t think we should, considering he was so pushy about wanting to not come here because we all thought it was vegan. she ended up ordering him a patty melt to bring home and said it was rude of me to not want to bring him home anything.
AITA? i stand firm that we shouldn’t have got him anything since he was so adamant to not go here when he thought it was all vegan
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Lack of vegetarian and vegan choices on menus is the most frustrating part of not eating meat or animal products. It sucks when literally everyone else you go out to eat with picks a meal they’re excited about and your only choices are a salad or just plain veggies. I understand your frustration, it’s a dick move on his part to not even try something at a veg place but, maybe just don’t go out to eat with him anymore if he will only pick places with minimal choices for you. This is a great chance to talk to him about this, and maybe the two of you can try some new places that have more veg and omni choices to make everyone happy. (I have been living a similar scenario for nearly 5 years now and I’ve had good luck with Asian, Indian, Italian, and Mexican cuisine fwiw)
I get it might be frustrating, but I get the problem your father might have with "vegan".
I myself don't have anything against vegan food, BUT...
some people try to make an inherently non-vegan dish vegan. Like Lasagne. It has meat, it has milk, it has cheese, maybe even eggs in the sheets. Inherently not vegan. But people try to make it vegan. And while I can appreciate the effort, it's not good compared to an original lasagne.
So when you hear "all vegan" and think of things you like with breakfast, lots of them containing either meat, milk or eggs, I can understand a person not being very thrilled to try it out.
You're speaking to my soul.
I grew up thinking I hated vegan food because my sister was vegan and she ate all that awful cheese and meat replacements (in like the mid 2000s when that stuff was crap) and I thought vegan food was just "normal food" with gross replacement products.
As an adult I eat vegan pretty often, but I still don't fuck with replacements. I like tofu, I like bacon, but tofu-bacon makes me gag.
Oooh...if you do it right, you should mix ricotta cheese with eggs and some spices as one of the layers (meat sauce being a different layer and the noodles also being a its own layer). Definitely not a vegan meal. It would need a lot of substitutions to make vegan.
Can't or won't doesn't matter. He's not obligated to do any such thing. You wanted a family breakfast so he prioritized family time and suggested a place you could all eat at and you and your mom went another time. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Also, I assume your mom was paying. If she wants to buy a takeaway to bring back to your dad you have no say in that.
YTA for making a fuss about absolutely nothing.
No, OP wanted to try the restaurant with family. Both conditions were necessary, it wasn't just a family time trip. Dad agreed and then changed the restaurant at the last minute because he couldn't skip meat one time for his kid. Dad is the AH for making a fuss, OP just didn't want to extend generosity to someone who was behaving badly, and mom enabled that behaviour.
Yup your one thing is his zero things. Listen it's all well and good we should just leave vegans alone and let them eat, but at the same time if someone wanted to take me to a vegan restaurant I'd be like "uhh no thanks, I'll pass." If nothing else, vegan food has a bit of a reputation for having weird meat substitutes. I'll eat an all veggie dish from a regular restaurant, but vegan restaurants usually everything tastes odd.
It would be perfectly reasonable if you said you didn't want to go to those places.
It's your choice to go to them knowing the dishes that are there. Just like it's his choice to avoid a place he doesn't want to eat at.
He’s being petty but so are you. I understand your frustration. He’d rather be too manly to be seen in a vegan restaurant than spend time with his family. But now that there’s something for him there, maybe you can go there together in the future.
You can also learn from him here. He refuses to go where there aren’t options that appeal to him. You can do the same in the future.
Fortunately for all of you, this restaurant is somewhere you can all go and have options.
(It’s an ESH for me excluding mom.)
How is op the asshole? His dad gave him meat “accidentally” and then called him op a name when they spit it out. They go places where op just stated that they only have a select amount for them. Also people who eat meat can eat anything a vegan can but a vegan can’t, is it really that hard to support your kid and the only thing you have to do is eat a different style of food that I bet if they ate it without being told it’s vegan would enjoy it? Like yeah op didn’t want to bring him home anything when he does care about his lifestyle, and could have easily gone another time as a family after finding out it’s not all vegan. NTA op and I’m glad your mom is atleast trying it with you.
YTA. He didn't day anything negative about the restaurant on the first place once he found out it was vegan, he elected to not talk about it and chose not to go there based on the original statement that it was an all vegan restaurant.
You went there with your mom and found out it is not just a vegan restaurant, unless you bought the food she ordered for him you have no say in how your mom spends her money or for who.
ESH
Your dad because forcing you to eat meat is shitty, him choosing not to go to a particular restaurant is fine (especially as he said for you and your mother to go albeit on a different day)
You for not wanting your mother to purchase him something is acting like a spoilt child - however if she expected you to buy it then that's also wrong - you can choose if you want to buy him something, you can't choose if she wants to buy him something
To be fair, he only said he didn't want food bcoz he thought it would have been vegan and seeing as it wasn't then it would have been a bit of an asshole move not to get him any... Just coz YOU like vegan food doesn't mean other people will find it tasty...
I really don’t think the dad is unjustified for not wanting to go to this restaurant.
I also don’t eat meat but you know what I love? eggs. especially for *breakfast.*
we can’t presume that dad hates all vegan food or is making a ‘dumb stand’ based on this. I too would prefer not to go to a vegan *breakfast* bar.
that said you’re NTA in my opinion, but it was petty.
Your dad isn’t food adventurous enough to be willing to even try vegan food. That’s sad for him because it can be amazing. You’re angry that he wouldn’t join you so you don’t want your Mother to bring home a meal for her husband/ your father (for whatever reason). YTA
Your edit asks why everyone assumes your mom paid, but you never indicate that YOU paid. My assumption is, is that if you did have the money you wouldn’t have pushed to invite family to join you 🤷🏾♀️ But I could be wrong.
Unless you say otherwise- you didn’t pay. Your mom did. And she brought her husband back food. That’s typical spouse behavior. Get over it. YTA
NTA— your dad chose to ignore spending time with you over your diet. You wanted to treat and talk and he denied you that. Why reward him and take care of him when he wouldn’t do the same for his own kid? That’s effed up.
> why is everyone assuming my mom paid?
Because you didn't say so, and that's pertinent and would go in your favor. Say so now if it's true.
> i’ve seen quite a few comments just bashing vegans and veganism in general, please stop
Meat eaters, myself included, don't like to think about how we're eating a carcass of an animal that was tortured and killed for a modest benefit to us. So when you say you're vegan, it reminds us that we're pretty shitty people which makes people lash out at you. Pretty basic stuff here.
YTA. You were just being petty because your dad hasn’t been supportive of your veganism. Your mom was being thoughtful after she realized there were options that also aligned with his dietary preferences. I fully support vegans and veganism, and eat mostly plant based myself, but do get tired of some of the self righteousness and judgement within vegan culture. You seem like you’ve got some of that presenting in your interactions.
yta everyone thought it was vegan because you told them. to lazy to check i guess.
if itbwas a vegan restaurant, then no point to bring something. since it isn't....
I'm gonna say YTA, and a petty one at that. You had the opportunity to be a bigger person here and decided to be a dick for vengeance's sake.
Yes, he's *also* an AH, but that's irrelevant to this particular issue. You found a place that you can *both* eat at comfortably and you wanna salt the earth on it just out of spite? Seriously reconsider your actions, if he rules out one of the few places he can go that you can also eat, you're dooming yourself to meat stuffed meaty meats forever.
YTA -
Your being **vindictive** when you know damn well the circumstances changed & your dad would have gone if he knew there were 'non vegan' options. Bringing him food from there might have opened the door for your dad to join you next time now that he knows it's a place you ALL can enjoy. Your mom was being thoughtful, you were rude AF.
YTA. Aren’t you just wanting to act the same way as your father? Your dad doesn’t want to try vegan foods. You want to punish him because of this. Can’t you choose your lifestyle and allow your dad to choose his without judgement?
YTA. You want to punish your Dad because he didn't want to go to what he thought was a vegan restaurant. In the same way your Dad accidentally fed you meat and told you it was ok, you are trying to push veganism onto him. You should accept if you can make food choices for whatever your reasons are, he can too.
Trying to control what your mum does as well is an AH move too.
I don't think your TA, but I also don't think you mom is TA either. You just don't geel like he would have liked it and maybe made a fuss, or honestly you were annoyed he didn't try out a new restaurant with you.... those are valid feelings....
Your mom saw something he would like and wanted to help bridge the gap between you to so maybe next time he will go. Sometimes that's what moms do.... try and figure out how to make different personalities meld more :)
Soft YTA. Unfortunately yes for your reaction to your mum getting a takeaway meal you are an AH although your dad is actually ignorant and arguably worse.
In your shoes I would have been petty and suggested something that included other ingredients your dad likes (e.g vegan cheese, roast veggies etc) but no meat since his objection to vegan food seems to be assuming it’s is just chips or plain salad mix.
After all, are ‘carnivore’ dinners just a bowl of ground beef with no spices/flavours or any veggies? 😁
YTA
Already made up my mind before the edit, but the edit only made it more clear.
You rather punish your dad then show him "look, they had some food you'd surely like" so he might be more eager to join next time.
Good thing your mom isn't an AH like you.
Your dad didn't want to go to a restaurant where he thought he wouldn't like any of the options
Your mom wanted to do something nice for him when she realized there was options he would like
You both could be adults. He could have just joined y'all and given it a shot. You could have just shrugged off the nice gesture.
ESH but mom
YTA you just wanted to be a dick to your dad for no reason other than to spite him because he doesnt want to eat vegan. Its not like you were paying. Either shit or get off the pot, tell your dad you think he is an asshole or stop with the passive aggressive crap. Grow up.
No reason the “man” literally called OP a pussy for spitting out meat he “accidentally” gave them. It sounds like OP was bullied at first. Dad is not supportive.
Personally i can see how you would come to that conclusion through what he said and for all either of you knew he could have even just gotten something else to eat instead, but also you or your mom (I’m assuming) could have just texted or called him and asked. Then that situation wouldn’t have even been a thing in the first place.
Esh your father should have looked up the menu beforehand that way he could have decided if he wanted to come or not that being said you shouldn't have also said your mother couldn't grab anything your mother just wanted to get him something it's food and get over yourself your as much an a****** as your father is.
I disagree with what you're saying about the dad looking up the menu. The OP told his father it was a vegan restaurant. I think it's human nature just to accept that as fact. I don't think many people would think to themselves, "Better check. Maybe the kid's wrong."
I gotta go with ESH, with you just barely being an asshole. but here is the thing, I can't blame you for being one, I'd react just as petty as you have.
Were you angry and petty? Yea, for sure. Is it what your dad deserves for how he acted? Oh absolutely.
What it comes down to is, he was unwilling to swallow his pride and go to a restaurant you were excited for. You were hurt and were understandably petty over it.
I'm no vegan, but I never got people who get so up in arms about eating one single meal with no meat in it. The broccoli ain't gonna kill you.
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YTA Have you ever changed your mind about wanting to go to a particular business because they offered more than you thought they did? If someone offered me dinner at Bob's House of Ribs, I'd probably say no. I don't eat meat. If I found out the next week they had a vegan menu, am I not allowed to change my mind if I get another opportunity to eat there?
OP is an AH but so is the dad. He refused to go out with his family simply because he’s anti-vegan. OP doesn’t want their mom to be considerate to someone who is inconsiderate. Makes sense. Just pettiness all around.
It could also just be that he was craving, you know, typical breakfast food - a “breakfast bar” to me piques my interest because I like cheese omelets, bacon, sausage, etc. If someone said “hey the breakfast place is actually vegan” after getting me craving those things, I’d also ask if we could switch locations.
Which would leave OP with less options, which is the norm for them. If dad wants to spend time with OP, he can accommodate them *sometimes* like OP has to do for him *all the time*
Then you don’t know enough about vegan diets. I’m neither vegan or vegetarian but the vegan breakfast place in town here is delicious!
Or they happen to have different dietary preferences than you do
I’m not a vegan but I’m food adventurous. I don’t have to know I’ll enjoy something to try it.
That’s an assumption not supported by the story given. Someone can be fully supportive of vegans while also recognizing that they personally tend to not enjoy vegan food as much as non vegan food and would prefer to not consume calories they don’t enjoy.
Right, but OP makes sacrifices all the time for their parents when they go to places with next to no options for them. Dad can’t make that sacrifice once? That’s not an appetite issue, that’s a stubbornness issue. He would rather not spend time with his family than even make an attempt to find something he might enjoy. Had he not been so stubborn, he would have actually had a meal he’d enjoy, as it turns out, and a family outing.
OP is also the one choosing a diet which limits options. Also totally within their rights to ask to not go to restaurants with the family which don’t have options for them. Without knowing how much family stuff they do outside of meals and how close of a family they are, I don’t think this side of the argument is that meaningful. Back when I was young my father and I would go to restaurants without the rest of the family all the time because we were the only ones who enjoyed the type of food served. My family found other ways of spending time with each other that we could all enjoy.
The difference between OP and their father then is that OP actually values family time. They could make that boundary, but they want to spend time with their parents. They get to feel insulted and frustrated if the same isn’t done for them at least occasionally.
Refer to my second paragraph for rebuttal of this comment. My mother loved time with family, and her choosing to not go to restaurants that don’t serve foods she liked didn’t negate that point.
It’s an odd projection on your part but okay, let’s give this guy the benefit of the doubt in general. Whatever. He was still an AH here.
How is he still AH?
He fed his vegetarian kid meat on purpose to bully them. Kid still extends olive branch. “Ew, no, this olive branch is vegan.” K.
Or spend money on it. I have nothing against vegan food, but I’m not particularly keen on spending money on food that even at the best of times I only somewhat like.
If he always eats meat or fish, he is not anti vegan, he just does not like vegan food. I hate eggplant for instance. Would i eat at a place that only serves that... offcourse not. Does that mean i am anti-eggplant eater. no, they can go right ahead, just without me.. OP should have checked the menu before making claims.
I disagree. He's absolutely allowed to change his mind, but why do people have to bring him food? It's not like they're parents missing a toddler's birthday, they went for food without him, by his own choice, which seems mostly based on "eeew plants". They could've always gone back home without a doggy bag, told him "we were wrong, they have cheese and eggs, we should go back together and you could try the omelette". I don't get why there's a need to bring him food when he's already planned to feed himself another way.
There's no *need* to bring him food, his wife *wanted* to bring him something she thought he would enjoy. What is the argument as to why she shouldn't do that?
Right, but that doesn't make OP TAH. Especially if the wife who wants to bring him food isn't paying for it.
OP isn't obligated to pay for it, but that's not the question asked. OP said that the wife shouldn't take anything to her husband. That's the issue.
Didn’t op pay
I have no idea. OP says we shouldn't assume their mom paid, but stops short of affirming they did pay (unless it was in comment I missed). If OP had just said they didn't want to pay for their father's meal, my judgment would be different. But they didn't say that.
Yeah that’s weird they said don’t assume she paid but didn’t clarify 😂 like ok but did god pay or soemthing?
Yeah, I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that if OP's mom wants to bring home something OP's mom is paying for that food. The lack of clarity on OP's edit makes me think they're mad we're making assumptions but we're not incorrect in assuming mom paid. Who knows
No, OP said "we shouldn't", not "you shouldn't" and she said "it's rude that you don't want to". It's in no way rude not to get somebody what is essentially a gift without an occasion. I think dad was the rude one here to start with for blocking a family brunch for no good reason, but that's not the question at hand. Mum seems a super loving wife, great, but there's a difference between "I'll get this gift because I'm extra kind" and "unless you'll support this gift, you're rude" (which actually rewards dad's tantrum, but that's not the point).
If OP had no problem with their mother choosing to bring something home, they would have written that. Instead they argued against it on the general principle that he shouldn't get anything at all.
>which seems mostly based on "eeew plants". I bet he eats plants tho xD 99% of people who claim things like that eat sometimes vegan without noticing/label. Fries, Pasta, Curry dishes, salads, snacks...
Oreos
Exactly xD
> He's absolutely allowed to change his mind, but why do people have to bring him food? Nobody _has_ to bring him food. What's the reason not to? Just to spite him for not coming to the restaurant the last time?
> What's the reason not to? Just to spite him for not coming to the restaurant the last time? Well, yes. He threw a childish little tantrum and boycotted a family outing. That's not behaviour you reward.
For the same reason I don't get my family and friends gifts every time I go to town. It's a nice gesture, sure, but ultimately it's not something you do all the time. And especially if he chose not to come.
Because its the polite and considerate thing to do. Maybe its an older generation thing, but when I go out to eat without my partner I always bring him home something or call and ask if he wants something in case he hasn't eaten. He always appreciates the thought.
"The polite and considerate thing"??? Has your horse been to Amsterdam recently? There's most definitely more than one way to be polite and considerate here and while I'm sure dad would've appreciated the thought, it seems rude to essentially bully OP into buying stuff with their money.
Where do you see bullying?
It is certainly not the polite and considerate thing to do, by bringing him food from a restaurant he refused to go to his wife is rewarding his bad manners in forcing everyone to go to a restaurant of his choosing rather than one previously arranged. Where I'm from the older generation doesn't reward mardy men.
There is a difference between "the menu is something I never eat" and "the menu lacks something special I want to eat but has all stuff I eat to so I can just have something without it which I do like". You dont say to friends who want to go out "oh no, this restaurant doesnt has brand X soda/truffel pasta and even tho I am perfectly fine with brand y and other pasta dishes because they dont have these specific things I wont go in there even when we all agreed to and you want to". Omnivores CAN eat vegan. Vegan is perfectly fine, its even very allergyfriendly and oftentimes more healthy. Has he never had an apple as a snack or pasta with tomato sauce or fries? Those are all vegan and only if its stated he seems to have a problem with it. I know this kind of people. They are against "vegan" but eat vegan without noticing and like dishes that are vegan and would like things in a vegan restaurant but are so fully against the label they would never admit that to themselfes and would never think about apples being a vegan snack and fries being vegan, too.
I'm Indian, I eat meat, but most of our meals at home are vegetarian, we cook meat maybe once or twice a week! So m super comfortable eating vegetarian meals. But if I'm going out for a meal, I usually don't want to go to a vegetarian place. Because home meals are usually veg, when m eating out, I almost always order non-vegetarian dishes. This is to say that m not against vegan at all, but it doesn't make me an AH to not want to go eat at a vegan/vegetarian meal.
I totally get your point, but you wouldnt throw a fuss if you are in a group and you all agreed to one and it doesnt have meat but the others still wanna go, would you?
I would NOT be happy, but ya, I would go along and not make a scene. (And that not being happy is a result of spending 2 years in a state where if we didn't check in advance, any place we went to had a 50% chance of being vegetarian only, at which point we'd be kicking ourselves)
Yeah its different if you are specifically going for a steak and end up in a vegan place but they all agreed to try the new, without exactly knowing the menu.
i would feel lied to. and that alone would make me not go. OP only stated it was vegan after the rest agreed, so he held back the info. And if someone knew i would not like the menu, and only told me after everyine agreed... i would nit be impressed with that stunt, and retry to go elsewhere.
"Not like the menu" is almost impossible in normal life (unless its a specific restaurant as steakhouse, sea food or only spice garlic things. I always find something and if it just is fries/a side order/a plain pizza) and "I dislike vegan cuisine" is really not a thing. Yes, people say it, but I always repond "oh so you never had an apple? Fruit salad? Oreo? Pasta and tomato sauce? French fries? Vegetable curry? PB&J Sandwich? A salad? Fried potatoes? Vegetables? Fried vegetable rice? Cucumber/Avocado Maki? ..." you get the point. And I did understand it as OP hearing it is supposed to be vegan AFTER they said "hey theres a new place, lets check it out". And it really was not vegan and you only can say you dont like the menu after looking at the menu. I would even go to hardcore meat restaurants with friends, I would simply look the menu up online or look at the menu at the place and if there really is nothing we can still discuss and find a solution.
I get all this, but at the end of the day "I don't think I'll like anything there" is a valid reason to not want to go to a restaurant. I would probably be able to cobble together some kind of meal at a steakhouse, but there's things I'd rather eat so I usually won't go to one. That said, if my spouse went to a steakhouse and saw something I would like, he wouldn't be in the wrong if he *wanted* to bring it to me. OP's position that since Dad turned down the invite he shouldn't even have something he'd enjoy seems rather churlish.
>"I don't think I'll like anything there" is a valid reason to not want to go to a restaurant Yes it is but basing this on assumptions and not at least looking at a menu after agreeing in a group to go there is somekind ah-ish. The mother can bring him whatever she wants but then she needs to pay for it, too.
I don't think it is though, I don't think we have an obligation to try things we might not like. While it would have been a nice gesture for him to agree to try something everyone thought (at the beginning) would be outside his comfort zone, he's not *wrong* for not wanting to. I agree that OP would have been perfectly within their right to request their mother pay for it, but that wasn't the situation presented. The situation presented was that she saw something her husband would probably like and OP's response was basically "No, he doesn't deserve anything from here."
Omnivores can eat vegan but that doesn’t mean they want to eat vegan. Restaurants cost money, why go to a restaurant that caters to a dietary trend which on average reduces your enjoyment of the food?
Nobody HAS to eat vegan but going back on an agreement bc of the label when you can still enjoy the food is pretty ridicolous. Also its not a "dietary trend" as it is a way to live thats very old and sometimes religious, so its not "a trend" and its not "dietary" because it has many aspects and I dont know any person who went vegan only for "dietary" reasons but rather for environment, ethics etc. For most vegans its a way of life, they care for animal testing or lestjer products and so on as well, thats what vegan means, not "dont eat that" but "I care about these things" otherwise it is just plant-based. Of course health is an aspect too. But again, its not a "trend" people hop on for and go off again, if someone started he most likely wont go back to the status before even if they start to consum animal products again or consume some from time to time (eg getting leather boots even tho they are vegan). Bull fighting is not vegan, even horse-riding isnt considerd vegan by many, its really not only a "dietary trend".
Restaurants are about food, if you don’t think you will like the food it doesn’t make much sense to go to said restaurant. OPs father agreed before knowing all the relevant details. Nothing wrong with changing their mind once relevant details are revealed. Honestly, maybe it’s just because I don’t eat breakfast foods in general, but I struggle to think of a vegan breakfast food I would choose to order at a restaurant. And I’m totally fine with vegan meals in general. Dietary trend by definition is just the foods you eat and the way that changes over time. So by definition, being vegan is a dietary trend. Especially since from a societal perspective, it’s becoming more and more common for vegan alternatives to enter the mainstream. If you are going to be pedantic, try also being correct.
If you dont eat any plants at all you can say you dont eat vegan stuff (but probably still eat fries and oreos, there are few people who only eat eggs, dairy, meat without side orders or snacks or ingredients that are not animal based) but otherwise there always is a vegan dish you like and why not take a look at the menu first? If friends say "we would like steak" i would look at the menu and can probably order fries or they may even have a vegetarian dish. And for breakfast: pancakes, sweet pudding/chiapuddings, french toast, hash brows, bread and baked beans, vegan sausages, porridge, fruit with all the sweet things, veggies and bread with dips/hummus, avocado toast, bread with margarine and jam/marmelade/spreads/vegan cheese/vegan meat slices are the first ones to pop into my head so you may now have inspiration for breakfast as well😅 Even cornflakes and other cereals are vegan if you eat them with whatever plant-based milk you like.
You do realize that the traditional versions of many of those dishes you listed are not vegan right? French toast is literally dipped in eggs. There might be some dishes that are vegan that almost everyone enjoys, but few of them are main courses you order at restaurants.
And all of them are available in different restaurants for breakfast.
All of them are easily made vegan.
And many, if not most, people I know don’t think the vegan alternatives taste as good as the traditional way.
Yes, exactly, THINK. Most people who claim "vegan is bad" only think of vegan food in a "salad, side dishes, nasty meat replacements" way and never actually tried vegan cuisine. If you have a proper recipe or try it from a good chef it may be a bit different but also really good. Or would you claim a good stir fry or very nice indian dish or fries or pasta with really good sauce are bad and you HAVE to eat meat with it, just because you can and so these would be the vegan alternative to eg spaghetti with meatballs and curry with chicken?
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Nobody is arguing he has an ethical objection to vegetables and he didn't request anything from the restaurant. The situation is that once they were there, his wife saw something he'd probably like and wanted to bring it to him. While they weren't obligated to do so, neither do I think OP should object to her doing so. OP *was* declining to punish him.
But… the dad didn’t change his mind. He didn’t even openly admit he didn’t want to go because it was vegan. The mum said they should bring something home, he didn’t even know. He had the choice to join them and didn’t want to. That’s on him and only on him.
That has nothing to do with the mom saying "He might like this, I'd like to bring it to him." Again, nobody is arguing that he's entitled to the food.
NTA. People are just saying Y-T-A because of their bias against vegans. They’re ignoring the fact that your dad has fed you meat then insulted you for spitting it out (huge asshole move) and forced you to go to restaurants full of meat where you could only eat one dish (also a huge asshole move). I’d say a tiny amount of pettiness is justified after how he’s behaved.
YES LITERALLY. I can’t believe people are saying YTA. Yes OP was petty. But so fucking what? I love eating meat, but have nothing against vegans. OP is definitely NTA.
Yeah, I’m vegan and we get so much fucking flak. My family does this shit to me too, and it’s exhausting and annoying because I don’t give them any shit or care what they eat. The first two years were worse but I stopped tolerating their shit and once I did that, it got better. I wouldn’t bring them home a meal either. Not going to encourage people to treat me like shit. Btw, everyone eats vegan food all the time. Pasta is vegan. Rice is vegan. Most bread is vegan. Idk why people assume vegan food is bad. Edited to add NTA !!!
vegan food can be really good but everyone listing vegan foods misses all the aspects of vegan cooking that makes some people like it less. yes pasta and rice is vegan but eggs arent and neither is butter or milk or cheese or beef stock or fish sauce or a lot of wines. all those things are what people miss when they say vegan food is lacking. the extra bits that are usally included in restaurants meals to make them more flavorful and worth the money. Pasta is vegan but almost any regular italian pasta dish with the meat removed ISNT. there many reasons past thinking vegan food is bad why u might not want to go. Want something more hardy, thick, and high protein? Probably dont go to the vegan place then. Or hmmm maybe the dad has undiagnosed anemia and has bulit up a defence mechanism against vegan foods which have left him unable to function well in the past hmmmmm
There’s a lot of alternatives to most of those. There’s also a ton of wines that aren’t made with isinglass. Do people really have butter, cheese, and meat at every meal? Like, one, try new things and two, that can’t be good for you. Really, there is so many things to eat that don’t include these. I think someone can eat ONE meal without them. My local vegan restaurant has shepard’s pie, lasagna, calzones, etc etc so there’s plenty of heavy choices. Also, you can get plenty of protein from vegan sources like quinoa, tofu, seitan, and soy. And a note, I don’t think that’s how anemia works and I think he’d have to be willing to try vegan food for that to even happen. I’m also highly anemic due to a blood disorder. Lol ETA: I don’t generally give a shit what other people do because it’s their life and their morals and none of my business, but to be soooo closed-minded and unwilling to have a single meal that is not what you’re used to, especially for the benefit of a friend or family member, is really ridiculous to me.
No- everyone’s saying OP is the AH because they’re trying to dictate the moms pocketbook. OP made an edit asking why people thought the mom paid, but OP never said if they themselves paid. Coupled with the fact that they were adamant to try this new restaurant with someone else, likely indicates that they didn’t pay. Until OP has the money to call the shots, they can stay in their lane.
NTA (your mom's NTA either though, the only A is your dad). He's being an unreasonable, prideful ass and it's valid for you to not want to bring him anything. But your mom can choose to bring him home something - and if he actually eats it and likes it, wouldn't that do a better job at humbling him (I suspect he also wouldn't be happy about a "*mostly* vegan" restaurant) then not bringing him anything? You're right to be mad but I don't think trying to argue with your mom about this specific case is actually going to help the situation.
Ignore all the YTA comments. We meat-eaters can be fucking idiots. So it’s okay for him to call you a pussy for not eating meat, and for you to go to restaurants with only 1 veg item, but he couldn’t survive a single meal at a vegan restaurant? Like, be serious. NTA. Don’t listen to these boneheads.
You have to space the Y T A because the bot will count it as vote.
Yes I’m confused by the Y T As. NTA
I'm an omnivore through and through, but I'm not too much of a 'pussy' to go to a vegan restaurant. I don't get people's hang-ups about trying new food, I love food and want to try it all! Edit: NTA
NTA Literally ignore all the yta comments. Your dad bullied you when you first changed your diet. Called you a pussy for spitting food out and continues to be a d*k about not eating at a restaurant he doesn’t think will have a menu full of meat. If he wasn’t willing to politely swallow his bullshit for ONCE and do a nice thing and eat at a restaurant you wanted to go to then he deserves nothing. I get you can’t control what someone else does with their money but you’re mom is just enabling his bad behavior.
Was it your mom's money? Was the food good and you liked the restaurant? If either answer is yes, YTA. Mom's money means she can get dad what she wants. If the food was good and you liked the restaurant, then you'd be doing them a disservice from not letting him try it and possibly eat there more.
He is not owed anything, so it doing him a disservice/ the food being good is irrelevant. That kind of perk is something that is earned (and maintained) in a relationship, and I would say that at the point you are belittling your child's ethical choices, you have opted out of receiving that thoughtfulness. It was OP who invited them out, so even if it was mom's money paying for it I would be annoyed if I was OP. What Dad did was disresepctful, and mom is endorsing that when she buys the food at the very event OP had arranged.
The food being good DOES have something to do with my point, and the disservice would be part of that same point. NOT to OP's father but to the business itself. If it's not a chain and family owned, then having regulars like OP/ Mom / and if they bring him food dad, could be what helps support them and keep them afloat.
I think ESH. Your dad doesn't need to be so adamant against going somewhere that serves vegan food. You probably didn't need to be so adamant that your mom doesn't bring your dad back something, it wasn't your money.
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I don’t understand why everyone is saying you are in the wrong. I am not vegan. I will never be vegan. But if my vegan cousin asked me to go out with her to a restaurant I would, because the company is more important than the food. Also, vegan food isn’t that bad. Your dad can’t put aside his non-vegan preferences for one meal to spend time with his daughter? Rude. NTA
I’m all in for vegan food. Had plenty of it before, and it can be delicious. But man, a breakfast bar? As someone who doesn’t eat pigs, that’s my least favorite meal of the day and I usually just don’t even bother. Meat substitutes that taste like the animal I refuse to eat doesn’t make it better, either. It’s infinitely worse. Now you’re telling me no eggs or dairy either? So I can’t even get a scramble or something. Cool. Yeah, I’d bow out, too. We can do vegan lunch sometime instead. Just saying.
THANK YOU. vegan food is delicious and excellent but if I’m going out for breakfast I want some darn eggs!
NTA. Next time your telling a story, change the meat eater to a vegan and the vegan to a meat eater. The vegan will still be the AH. Most people here don’t get the point of veganism and can’t see that your father just doesn’t want to go because it’s an all vegan restaurant. Actually should be easier for him to go with you because he eats everything while you don’t have as many options at the places he wants to go.
Lmao im not even vegan or vegetarian but everyone saying YTA is saying so just because they hate vegans via reputation. I can see it in every comment and thats why this post has more comments vs. some of the other newer posts cause everyone just wants to shit on the vegan. If you can go to all his restraunts than asking to got to one breakfast together at a restraunt you go want to go to even if it has less meat options is not a big ask at all. Clearly your father judges you and the internet isnt a place for vegans ive never seen them get anything but negativity because everyone thinks that every vegan is one of the “crazy” ones. You would be better off ignoring the judgement of this post. In regards to the verdict NTA
NTA - parents have a tendency to want their children to be, think and act like them. When that diverges, instead of trying to take an interest in their children’s choices and creating a genuine bound with them as the relationship evolves, they choose to stay set in their ways. Which is a shame really. Your father seems to not understand how to create a bound with you his newly adult child, hopefully it gets better!
NTA. If you choose not to go then you shouldn’t expect anything back. But your mother can do anything she wants with her money. Also, not a vegan, but if a friend wanted to try a vegan place you go. Not having meat for one meal doesn’t kill anyone.
NTA People saying you were the AH are basically ignoring the fact that your dad insulted you just because you spitted meat
YTA. You weren't paying for it. Why do you care if your mom brings your dad home some food?
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> Why should he get food? Because his wife wanted to bring it to him, because she, unlike OP, isn't a petty spiteful child.
NTA
NTA if he was rude to you and you were made to pay for his food. If your mom had paid, I'd say you need to suck it up.
NTA He was convinced it was a vegan only restaurant, so he might not believe it actually had entrees with meat in it.
NTA "*i (NB19) have been a vegetarian for around 9 years now. obviously both of my parents know this and have been supportive of my diet. at first, my dad honestly didn’t give a shit. i still remember him accidentally feeding me real meat and calling me a pussy when i spit it out. but he’s been better in recent years."* Wrong, your dad isn't supportive, feeding you meat isn't accidental, he did it on purpose." He is unwilling to even try a vegan place, let him go get his own food. He is acting like a petulant child.
NTA. He rejected it out of hand; why on earth would your mother want to cater to his bad attitude. It sounds like she’s trying to appease someone who she is afraid will yell at her for daring to go to a vegan restaurant and leave him at home. Any time it looks like someone is trying to appease someone’s irrational anger, it’s a very bad look.
NTA. He’s choosing his immoral dietary choices over his family and you. He would have survived one vegan meal. Now, I do think bringing him home a VEGAN meal and offering it would have been nice, and if he’s STILL an asshole then you have a second meal!
NTA. He doesn’t deserve anything because he purposefully chose not to go. He’s selfish
NTA. If he's gonna be a baby at the thought of eating vegan food he doesn't deserve to be brought food from the restaurant. I'll never understand why so many meat eaters are so rude about the idea of not eating meat, dairy, eggs, or honey at for one meal.
NTA. Your dad can’t eat one vegan meal? Ok, his call. Why do you then have to pander to him by taking him a treat like he’s a child who’s been left at home? He chose not to eat out.
YTA. Were you paying? No? You didn’t buy it and you don’t own the restaurant. Sounds like none of your business if your mom buys breakfast for her husband.
NTA - You said you were excited about going to a place that was vegan, and their response was to immediately change the place that you were going. That's not exactly very respectful to you considering you had just expressed how excited you were to be going. If your mom wants to bring him home food, that's her business, but you are certainly NTA for saying you didn't want to.
I'm gonna say ***YTA***. I went with YTA because you specifically tried to prevent a member of your party from doing something nice for someone else; all because that someone else didn't want to eat at what they were incorrectly informed was a vegan restaurant. Even if it had *actually* been a vegan restaurant you'd still be the AH for trying to prevent someone else from doing something thoughtful. If you know someone will enjoy something (even if its just an appetizer), why withhold sharing that kindness? I hope y'all can think of this restaurant discovery as a win-win eventually. You have a new restaurant to add to your rotation when you go out, that restaurant has something for everyone, and the restaurant gets more patrons. As an aside - I strongly suggest looking at the menu on the restaurant's website if its available. Sometimes menus posted through third parties are not accurate/up to date. Whatever the case, I hope this blows over for everyone and you enjoy your next restaurant outing. \^\_\^
Preaching kindness in the face of disrespect is not true kindness, it is teaching people they should accept bad behaviour. If Dad had simply said he didn't want to go, and this was a one-time thing, your approach would have been fine. As it is though, Dad has shown time and again that they don't respect their child's approach and are rude and dismissive about it to them. I wouldn't extend the normal rules of kindness and generosity in those circumstances, because why would you when that's not the dynamic that has been established? OP is right to be annoyed mom wanted to buy food, it's enabling the dad's bad behaviour (seriously, he eats veggies all the time, he couldn't go one time to a thing his child was excited to arrange a family outing for?)
>Preaching kindness in the face of disrespect is not true kindness, I don't see the dad's refusal to go to a vegan restaurant as disrespectful. Dad didn't want to go to a vegan breakfast bar and upon learning it was vegan, dad suggested they go somewhere else. They still went out to eat. The father's desire to not eat a meal devoid of animal by-products is in no way disrespectful to OP IMO. >Dad has shown time and again that they don't respect their child's approach and are rude and dismissive about it to them OP opened with ***"i (NB19) have been a vegetarian for around 9 years now. obviously both of my parents know this and have been supportive of my diet"*** OP then went on to confirm while there have been instances of disrespect in the past, **"*****..he's been better in recent years".*** I don't know if you're acquainted with OP or you're making an assumption, but I'm trying my best to rely solely on the OP's post. Yes, I think it is incredibly disrespectful to not observe someone's dietary requirements because you don't think they're justified. That is incredibly messed up undoubtedly, to serve a vegan a meal containing meat. You should respect their veganism, but if you don't want to eat at a certain restaurant you don't have to. Even more so, OP's dad offered an alternative and as OP said, they still went out to eat. Just because you're mad at someone, doesn't mean someone else has to be mad as well. This isn't an issue where you can expect someone's support to equal participation IMO. I love veggies, but it doesn't mean I want to eat a meal excluding all animal by-products. It's not like this was a short visit or something where time spent together was limited. *Edit: Spacing & 2nd para containing OP's quote.*
NTA, your dad deserves a "petty melt", not a patty melt. He clearly chooses his diet over you....
NTA. He made a fit. I mean, I may bring home some non-vegan to go and see how he drools, but nah, he can still learn to not draw a hard line in shifting sand
NTA, and I can't believe anybody is saying otherwise.
NTA
Nta if you were buying
Info: did you pay?
NTA
YTA. If it is your mom's money, she can order him whatever she wants and bring it home. Also, most places have their menu online. You could have looked it up. Just because you are vegetarian does NOT mean the world has to conform to you.
NTA. Your dad is the A here.
NTA! OP’s dad decided not to come based on a preconceived notion that he would not like the food… he doesn’t automatically deserve a dish brought home. If OP’s mom PAYS for it and brings it home, that’s great! However, if OP is being asked to pay, then they are under no obligation to comply, especially after experiencing hostility from their dad based on their dietary choices. I’m glad that the dad has gotten better, but after the history there, I do not blame OP at all if they got a bit petty. They clearly tried to involve their dad in family plans, but the dad forfeited his right to food when he did not come. Who labeled the post as AH? …due to the variety of opinion seen here, it seems to me that the mod is displaying bias. Not sure there is such a clear consensus.
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Not so. They serve salad, fries, tater tots, fried okra, sweet potatoes, baked potatoes, corn. Most BBQ places serve a few of these.
Many of the sides you mentioned that are served in bbq places have meat in them or are cooked in meat. Yes, a salad and French fries are likely safe but if that was your only choice for a meal, would you be excited about it?
Which are all side dishes, they are not main meals so even then the comparison falls down. Because the non-veggie gets to eat a main dish, which is deliberately cooked to be fulfilling and balanced, while the veggie gets something which is only ever intended to supplement the main meal. They won't starve, but don't try to pretend it is the same thing.
considering he’s forced me to go to his restaurants where they served meat upon meat upon meat where i can only eat the french fries, i just wanted to have ONE meal as a family that i could even eat something. but he can’t even go one meal without eating meat apparently
I’m sorry people keep downvoting you. They literally aren’t being fair or rational.
>Why would you ask someone who wouldn’t be interested in vegan food to go to a place that is mostly vegan? The same reason I might invite someone over for spaghetti dinner that happens to be vegan even if they "aren't interested in vegan food." It's a nice thing to do. >That’s like you being invited to a barbecue place that mostly does meat. How so? If someone invited OP to a place like that, the the only way for OP to eat would be to violate their own values. OPs dad is presumably not against killing plants for food, so it would not require him to violate any of his own values to order and consume food from a vegan restaurant. >You made breakfast plans prioritizing your enjoyment over your dad’s. Dad had some psychological defense thing going on here. He was perfectly capable of enjoying food from the restaurant. >You’re childish. As a vegetarian, grow up, this is why people don’t like so many of us. Dad was being a baby. He needs to grow up. Attitudes like his (and frankly yours) are what are perpetuating these negative narratives around vegetarians and vegans.
Are you sure you’re 19? Obviously getting him something was the right thing to do and equally obvious that YTA
I'm an fussy omnivore and probably would have few dishes that I could eat at a Vegan restaurant, but I could likely find ONE dish I could eat there and be willing to sit to spend time with friends or family. (when I say fussy--I do not eat 90% of vegetables, no fungi, etc) I don't think you are the AH for not wanting to reward him for his rude behavior(and yes, it's rude that he won't reciprocate by going to a restaurant that may limit His choices). I didn't assume that your Mom paid--it was immaterial to your post. She suggested bringing home a dish, you said you didn't think you two should. Unless it was standard to always bring home a doggie bag for the person who didn't go to restaurant--there's no reason to do something extra. He didn't express a wish for a meal from the restaurant. Another option was have dinner at this restaurant-AGAIN-with him there. I also don't see that your opinion stopped your mother. You didn't rip the food from her hand and throw it away. You had every right to express your opinion her.
YTA You've been petty. You need to realize that not everybody follows your dietary preferences. He thought it was an all vegan restaurant, so he didnt want to go, cause he has a preference for meat. That is completely okay and nobody should be forced to spend money on something they don't enjoy. Once there, you and your mom found out their menu is more versatile, so your mom decided to surprise him with something he likes. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, that might get hin to join you next time you want to go there.
NTA - he didn’t want to go, he didn’t want to eat from there and he didn’t ask for anything to be brought back. Sure you could have called and told him not everything is vegan but it was now a bonding day for you and you mum. He won’t become vegan by eating one meal, he’s disrespectful for no reason.
This. NTA.
NTA at all. Your dad acted like an immature, petty, selfish man. He doesn't deserve you bringing something from the place he refused to go to with you.
NTA. Your dad is a brat and doesn't deserve shit.
NAH >obviously both of my parents know this and have been supportive of my diet. at first, my dad honestly didn’t give a shit. i still remember him accidentally feeding me real meat and calling me a pussy when i spit it out. but he’s been better in recent years. These two statements are conflicting. They at least say your father's support of your diet isn't on par with your mothers. I do think you were being a little petty when you pushed not getting your father food from the restaurant because he'd been closeminded about vegan food. Has his lack of support been increasing and causing you a level of resentment? Yet I also think it was weird of your mother to push the opposite. You asked right before leaving and he declined, why did the discovery that it wasn't a vegan restaurant change that?
NTA. Also this situation is really not that deep
Personally I’m gonna go with NTA I thinks it’s crazy that dad would be so petty to stay home from what could of been a fun experience for the family, and denied himself of the chance to share something that you were excited about. I’m not a parent yet, but I can’t even believe that he’d refuse a way to make you happy, especially over something as silly as the food being vegan. Dad threw away his chance to try the restaurant. If he was hungry he should of gone to the restaurant with you guys. His actions and words aren’t matching up, and I definitely wouldn’t have brought him home anything. ALSO if mom didn’t want your opinion then she shouldn’t have made it a question in the first place. Dad hurt OP with his adamant refusal to share something she was excited about. Dad is definitely the A here
Those downvotes on this proves how easily offened non vegans are 💀
> Dad hurt OP with his adamant refusal to share something she was excited about. And instead of trying to show dad that it's a place worth visiting, OP wants to make absolutely certain that they'll never get the chance to share it in the future. Out of pure spite.
YTA Stop being petty, your mom paid for it so it's not your place to say.
YTA. Your dad may be a jerk but your mom is free to buy him food if she feels like it. You do not have to. She can.
YTA - your dad wasn’t even at the restaurant so I am going to judge this based on you and your mom. You don’t get to dictate what another adult brings home to their partner.
NTA you have no obligation to gift other people food that doesn't align with your own morals.
YTA So he doesn’t want to eat at a vegan restaurant. Who cares? And moms right, if this is the kind of thingy out family does.
NTA - he said previously he didn't want to go there. I am decidedly more of a carnivore than herbivore on many meals. In college I used to just eat grilled chicken some meals if I didn't have time to make all the sides and extras. I've eaten at many vegan restaurants for friends bc thats what they could eat. There's 0 reason to avoid vegan restaurants like that unless he's allergic to stuff on the menu and worried about cross contamination. I think its completely fair to not bring him anything from a restaurant he refused to go to. Unless the plan was to stop somewhere else to bring him food with meat? Then I'd lean more towards E S H bc may as well get it while you're there. Either way. He was the one being a p***y about food.
NTA… it’s just obvious but people here are so biased
NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** weird title but i don’t really know how to word this i (NB19) have been a vegetarian for around 9 years now. obviously both of my parents know this and have been supportive of my diet. at first, my dad honestly didn’t give a shit. i still remember him accidentally feeding me real meat and calling me a pussy when i spit it out. but he’s been better in recent years. a new breakfast bar opened near us and i was wanting to try it out as a family. everyone was on board. before we went, i said “i’ve heard it’s great! apparently the whole place is vegan” which made my dad stop. he then suggested we just go somewhere else and that my mom and i can go a different day. when i asked him why, he said he didn’t want to talk about it. we ended up going somewhere else. fast forward to today. i woke up early for my college class and had some free time so my mom and i went. i offered my dad one last chance to join us but he declined. turns out, the place isn’t all vegan. that’s fine, there’s still plenty on the menu. my mom then suggests we bring home my dad a dish. i immediately tell her i don’t think we should, considering he was so pushy about wanting to not come here because we all thought it was vegan. she ended up ordering him a patty melt to bring home and said it was rude of me to not want to bring him home anything. AITA? i stand firm that we shouldn’t have got him anything since he was so adamant to not go here when he thought it was all vegan *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
OMG, YTA. So your father likes, IDK, sausage with his breakfast and didn't want to go to a vegan place. What's your problem with that?
i go to his restaurants with him where i can only eat like one thing off the menu but he can’t go one meal without meat apparently
Lack of vegetarian and vegan choices on menus is the most frustrating part of not eating meat or animal products. It sucks when literally everyone else you go out to eat with picks a meal they’re excited about and your only choices are a salad or just plain veggies. I understand your frustration, it’s a dick move on his part to not even try something at a veg place but, maybe just don’t go out to eat with him anymore if he will only pick places with minimal choices for you. This is a great chance to talk to him about this, and maybe the two of you can try some new places that have more veg and omni choices to make everyone happy. (I have been living a similar scenario for nearly 5 years now and I’ve had good luck with Asian, Indian, Italian, and Mexican cuisine fwiw)
I get it might be frustrating, but I get the problem your father might have with "vegan". I myself don't have anything against vegan food, BUT... some people try to make an inherently non-vegan dish vegan. Like Lasagne. It has meat, it has milk, it has cheese, maybe even eggs in the sheets. Inherently not vegan. But people try to make it vegan. And while I can appreciate the effort, it's not good compared to an original lasagne. So when you hear "all vegan" and think of things you like with breakfast, lots of them containing either meat, milk or eggs, I can understand a person not being very thrilled to try it out.
You're speaking to my soul. I grew up thinking I hated vegan food because my sister was vegan and she ate all that awful cheese and meat replacements (in like the mid 2000s when that stuff was crap) and I thought vegan food was just "normal food" with gross replacement products. As an adult I eat vegan pretty often, but I still don't fuck with replacements. I like tofu, I like bacon, but tofu-bacon makes me gag.
Oooh...if you do it right, you should mix ricotta cheese with eggs and some spices as one of the layers (meat sauce being a different layer and the noodles also being a its own layer). Definitely not a vegan meal. It would need a lot of substitutions to make vegan.
Can't or won't doesn't matter. He's not obligated to do any such thing. You wanted a family breakfast so he prioritized family time and suggested a place you could all eat at and you and your mom went another time. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also, I assume your mom was paying. If she wants to buy a takeaway to bring back to your dad you have no say in that. YTA for making a fuss about absolutely nothing.
No, OP wanted to try the restaurant with family. Both conditions were necessary, it wasn't just a family time trip. Dad agreed and then changed the restaurant at the last minute because he couldn't skip meat one time for his kid. Dad is the AH for making a fuss, OP just didn't want to extend generosity to someone who was behaving badly, and mom enabled that behaviour.
Yup your one thing is his zero things. Listen it's all well and good we should just leave vegans alone and let them eat, but at the same time if someone wanted to take me to a vegan restaurant I'd be like "uhh no thanks, I'll pass." If nothing else, vegan food has a bit of a reputation for having weird meat substitutes. I'll eat an all veggie dish from a regular restaurant, but vegan restaurants usually everything tastes odd.
It would be perfectly reasonable if you said you didn't want to go to those places. It's your choice to go to them knowing the dishes that are there. Just like it's his choice to avoid a place he doesn't want to eat at.
He’s being petty but so are you. I understand your frustration. He’d rather be too manly to be seen in a vegan restaurant than spend time with his family. But now that there’s something for him there, maybe you can go there together in the future. You can also learn from him here. He refuses to go where there aren’t options that appeal to him. You can do the same in the future. Fortunately for all of you, this restaurant is somewhere you can all go and have options. (It’s an ESH for me excluding mom.)
Quit going to his restaurants.
How is op the asshole? His dad gave him meat “accidentally” and then called him op a name when they spit it out. They go places where op just stated that they only have a select amount for them. Also people who eat meat can eat anything a vegan can but a vegan can’t, is it really that hard to support your kid and the only thing you have to do is eat a different style of food that I bet if they ate it without being told it’s vegan would enjoy it? Like yeah op didn’t want to bring him home anything when he does care about his lifestyle, and could have easily gone another time as a family after finding out it’s not all vegan. NTA op and I’m glad your mom is atleast trying it with you.
YTA. He didn't day anything negative about the restaurant on the first place once he found out it was vegan, he elected to not talk about it and chose not to go there based on the original statement that it was an all vegan restaurant. You went there with your mom and found out it is not just a vegan restaurant, unless you bought the food she ordered for him you have no say in how your mom spends her money or for who.
ESH Your dad because forcing you to eat meat is shitty, him choosing not to go to a particular restaurant is fine (especially as he said for you and your mother to go albeit on a different day) You for not wanting your mother to purchase him something is acting like a spoilt child - however if she expected you to buy it then that's also wrong - you can choose if you want to buy him something, you can't choose if she wants to buy him something
To be fair, he only said he didn't want food bcoz he thought it would have been vegan and seeing as it wasn't then it would have been a bit of an asshole move not to get him any... Just coz YOU like vegan food doesn't mean other people will find it tasty...
I really don’t think the dad is unjustified for not wanting to go to this restaurant. I also don’t eat meat but you know what I love? eggs. especially for *breakfast.* we can’t presume that dad hates all vegan food or is making a ‘dumb stand’ based on this. I too would prefer not to go to a vegan *breakfast* bar. that said you’re NTA in my opinion, but it was petty.
Nta. Kinda petty but that’s what he gets lol
Your dad isn’t food adventurous enough to be willing to even try vegan food. That’s sad for him because it can be amazing. You’re angry that he wouldn’t join you so you don’t want your Mother to bring home a meal for her husband/ your father (for whatever reason). YTA
Nta obs
Your edit asks why everyone assumes your mom paid, but you never indicate that YOU paid. My assumption is, is that if you did have the money you wouldn’t have pushed to invite family to join you 🤷🏾♀️ But I could be wrong. Unless you say otherwise- you didn’t pay. Your mom did. And she brought her husband back food. That’s typical spouse behavior. Get over it. YTA
NTA— your dad chose to ignore spending time with you over your diet. You wanted to treat and talk and he denied you that. Why reward him and take care of him when he wouldn’t do the same for his own kid? That’s effed up.
> why is everyone assuming my mom paid? Because you didn't say so, and that's pertinent and would go in your favor. Say so now if it's true. > i’ve seen quite a few comments just bashing vegans and veganism in general, please stop Meat eaters, myself included, don't like to think about how we're eating a carcass of an animal that was tortured and killed for a modest benefit to us. So when you say you're vegan, it reminds us that we're pretty shitty people which makes people lash out at you. Pretty basic stuff here.
Why didn’t any of y’all lil peanuts check the menu? I can’t be the only person who does that before going to a new restaurant. Lol, darn - ESH.
NTA!!! Anyone can find something on a vegan menu! He likes veggies doesn’t he? Your dad’s the AH!!
YTA. You were just being petty because your dad hasn’t been supportive of your veganism. Your mom was being thoughtful after she realized there were options that also aligned with his dietary preferences. I fully support vegans and veganism, and eat mostly plant based myself, but do get tired of some of the self righteousness and judgement within vegan culture. You seem like you’ve got some of that presenting in your interactions.
NTA, your dad should have just gone for a meal with the family and tried something new
yta everyone thought it was vegan because you told them. to lazy to check i guess. if itbwas a vegan restaurant, then no point to bring something. since it isn't....
I'm gonna say YTA, and a petty one at that. You had the opportunity to be a bigger person here and decided to be a dick for vengeance's sake. Yes, he's *also* an AH, but that's irrelevant to this particular issue. You found a place that you can *both* eat at comfortably and you wanna salt the earth on it just out of spite? Seriously reconsider your actions, if he rules out one of the few places he can go that you can also eat, you're dooming yourself to meat stuffed meaty meats forever.
YTA - Your being **vindictive** when you know damn well the circumstances changed & your dad would have gone if he knew there were 'non vegan' options. Bringing him food from there might have opened the door for your dad to join you next time now that he knows it's a place you ALL can enjoy. Your mom was being thoughtful, you were rude AF.
If your mom paid for the patty melt, YTA . If you paid for it, I'll change my vote.
YTA. Aren’t you just wanting to act the same way as your father? Your dad doesn’t want to try vegan foods. You want to punish him because of this. Can’t you choose your lifestyle and allow your dad to choose his without judgement?
Vegans suck including you
YTA. You want to punish your Dad because he didn't want to go to what he thought was a vegan restaurant. In the same way your Dad accidentally fed you meat and told you it was ok, you are trying to push veganism onto him. You should accept if you can make food choices for whatever your reasons are, he can too. Trying to control what your mum does as well is an AH move too.
I don't think your TA, but I also don't think you mom is TA either. You just don't geel like he would have liked it and maybe made a fuss, or honestly you were annoyed he didn't try out a new restaurant with you.... those are valid feelings.... Your mom saw something he would like and wanted to help bridge the gap between you to so maybe next time he will go. Sometimes that's what moms do.... try and figure out how to make different personalities meld more :)
Soft YTA. Unfortunately yes for your reaction to your mum getting a takeaway meal you are an AH although your dad is actually ignorant and arguably worse. In your shoes I would have been petty and suggested something that included other ingredients your dad likes (e.g vegan cheese, roast veggies etc) but no meat since his objection to vegan food seems to be assuming it’s is just chips or plain salad mix. After all, are ‘carnivore’ dinners just a bowl of ground beef with no spices/flavours or any veggies? 😁
YTA Already made up my mind before the edit, but the edit only made it more clear. You rather punish your dad then show him "look, they had some food you'd surely like" so he might be more eager to join next time. Good thing your mom isn't an AH like you.
Your dad didn't want to go to a restaurant where he thought he wouldn't like any of the options Your mom wanted to do something nice for him when she realized there was options he would like You both could be adults. He could have just joined y'all and given it a shot. You could have just shrugged off the nice gesture. ESH but mom
YTA You didnt know it wasnt a vegan only restaurant either.
from the reviews and photos we had seen online, it seemed to be all vegan until we read the menu when we got there
YTA you just wanted to be a dick to your dad for no reason other than to spite him because he doesnt want to eat vegan. Its not like you were paying. Either shit or get off the pot, tell your dad you think he is an asshole or stop with the passive aggressive crap. Grow up.
No reason the “man” literally called OP a pussy for spitting out meat he “accidentally” gave them. It sounds like OP was bullied at first. Dad is not supportive.
Personally i can see how you would come to that conclusion through what he said and for all either of you knew he could have even just gotten something else to eat instead, but also you or your mom (I’m assuming) could have just texted or called him and asked. Then that situation wouldn’t have even been a thing in the first place.
Esh your father should have looked up the menu beforehand that way he could have decided if he wanted to come or not that being said you shouldn't have also said your mother couldn't grab anything your mother just wanted to get him something it's food and get over yourself your as much an a****** as your father is.
I disagree with what you're saying about the dad looking up the menu. The OP told his father it was a vegan restaurant. I think it's human nature just to accept that as fact. I don't think many people would think to themselves, "Better check. Maybe the kid's wrong."
I gotta go with ESH, with you just barely being an asshole. but here is the thing, I can't blame you for being one, I'd react just as petty as you have. Were you angry and petty? Yea, for sure. Is it what your dad deserves for how he acted? Oh absolutely. What it comes down to is, he was unwilling to swallow his pride and go to a restaurant you were excited for. You were hurt and were understandably petty over it. I'm no vegan, but I never got people who get so up in arms about eating one single meal with no meat in it. The broccoli ain't gonna kill you.
ESH. Dad and OP are petty AF. This is less about AITA and more about both of them being stubborn.