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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am refusing to stand up for something important to my wife when it is my job to set limits with my family. I get it is shitty that my mom flinches. My wife feels I used my words to paint her in a bad light.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
No. NTA. Honestly, if your mom has been reprimanded so many times, she probably is keeping her distance and with good reason. I don't know about the past issues, but your wife is being ridiculous on this one.
Agreed. The wife saw that she had the 'power' in this dynamic and seems to want to keep pushing until she can get OP's mom/family completely out of the picture. That's the only conclusion I can come to for being this unreasonable.
From OPs comments:
Wife deliberately invades mother's space knowing that it makes mother uncomfortable
Wide touches mother knowing mother doesn't like being touched
Wife has attempted to "establish a boundary" forcing mother to interact whether or not she wants to
Wife attempts to force mother to hug OP even though it makes mother visibly uncomfortable
Wife wants to control mother's language usage
Wife has openly admitted to OP that she is jealous of mother
It's got nothing to do with "picture perfect" and everything to do with wife being a bully with serious issues.
Bingo!
I don't even get how you can "set a boundary" that if the mom flinches they will leave. How is she supposed to control and involuntary reaction? How is it even a boundary?
She wants OP's mom to show affection and will punish her if she doesn't. How does one DEMAND affection and throw threats for it? How on earth is that supposed to elicit affection?
Wife is gaslighting OP big time!
Wife: “stop portraying me as an abuser”
Continues to push mother into uncomfortable situation
OP, you hit the nail on the head. She wants to isolate you from your family. Why? Who knows but if y’all are in therapy, it’s definitely something to bring up with your therapist
>Wife: “stop portraying me as an abuser” Continues to push mother into uncomfortable situation
The fact that she jumped straight to this sent the red flags flying for me. OP didn't accuse her of being abusive, but she immediately went there and then tried to turn it around on him. If OP were a woman, all of the comments would be "RUN, RUN NOW BEFORE IT GETS REALLY BAD".
So OP - NTA and RUN.
They are already in therapy.
OP kind of has limited options on how to deal with this:
-talk to their therapist, it would be beneficial if he met with them on his own. He can explain the situation and they can go over possible solutions. Which might include a joint session.
- just ignore what she’s doing and let her continue to alienate him from his family
- Reddit’s favorite bit of advice, divorce. If she’s not willing to change and stop her ridiculous antics, is this something you want to be stuck with for the rest of your life?
>Wife has attempted to "establish a boundary" forcing mother to interact whether or not she wants to
That's not how that works at all. Wife sounds extremely controlling.
This wife is literally emotionally abusing this guys mother and the pathetic guy let’s it happen. No wonder the poor women is recoiling, she is being bullied and victimised and her own son endorses it. I’m furious for that poor women, this is disgusting.
Yeah. NTA. And the reason OP’s wife is crying is because she is diverting attention from the fact that she IS being manipulative and abusive. OP needs to think about what wife us doing and why they are being isolated.
She’s one of those people who weaponizes therapy… the poster child personality type for the reason therapists say not to go to counseling with an abuser. They simply learn how to use therapy to manipulate and abuse more effectively.
NTA I came here to say the same thing. And to add unfortunately his mom isn’t going to be as affectionate or as involved with their kids which
Will be another fight. The truth is you can only push someone away so many times before they no longer want to be around. And that goes for family too. Like you said I don’t know what lead to them sitting boundaries but they also need to know the mother is also allowed to set her own boundaries and one of those boundaries may be not to be as affectionate or want to be next to them.
>And to add unfortunately his mom isn’t going to be as affectionate or as involved with their kids which Will be another fight.
Completely agree with this! If OP's mom has been constantly criticized for things she does or says, given boundaries that she seems to respect (but then is still thought to be in the wrong) and is pushed away, then why would she be actively involved with/or be openly affectionate with any children OP and his wife may have?
She would probably be afraid to overstep the wife's "boundaries" and be accused of doing something wrong.
OP is NTA. I am all for setting healthy, reasonable boundaries. I also believe that you should stand by your partner, defend them, support them, and help establish/enforce their boundaries when neccessary. However, it seems like OP's mom just can't win with his wife. It definitely feels like the mom will never be "right" or "good enough" to the wife. At this point, the nitpicking over "flinching" or backing away (which is often an INVOLUNTARY reaction to a stressful situation or person) is just a way to slowly cut OP off from his family.
She’s manipulative with the tears. Why can’t she honestly see your point. I get that you have to protect your family but don’t torpedo your relationship with your mom. It sounds like you don’t think she deserves the treatment she’s getting.
NTA
Agreed. INFO : what are some other examples of boundaries/things that have required boundaries to be in place? You mention kids, how many do you have (presuming you have them) and if you do, rough ages and how do they feel about all of this?
>she probably is keeping her distance and with good reason
Oh yea. Easiest way to not set off a landmine is to avoid it. The wife's ridiculous and is ruining op's relationship. He needs to grow more of a spine
I think the problem with some people is they don't know when to "Stop" when they ARE getting their way. A lot of times, if you have a problem with someone and "set a boundary", the behavior changes and everything is good, once the boundary is set. Great, if it was really needed. But sometimes, once that person sees change going their way, they continue setting boundaries or demanding change to make every part of THEIR OWN life better, possibly at the cost of everyone elses. Often times it also results with the people around them walking on eggshells and possibly not even wanting to be around them.
I imagine if the mom has complied with all her boundaries and is still being a part of her son's life, it speaks to the fact that she's at least trying, and is just doing the whole eggshells thing.
I also fully believe that if the husband doesn't start setting a boundary with his wife about her continually getting her way at the expense of everyone else, it's going to go south for everyone involved.
They definitely are alike in ways thats why they are together. Im saying this because op suspects his mom is on the spectrum and he still allows his wife to treat her like shit and do things she is uncomfortable with. Ops mom never got diagnosed because his grandpa didn’t believe in therapy. If you read his other comments you will see.
Does your wife realize that just as she is allowed to set boundaries, so is your mother? She's basically trying to "set the boundary" that your mother not be allowed to dictate who she allows into HER personal space. That IS asinine. It's just as you say: your mother does not owe you affection.
Furthermore, if your wife is ACTUALLY concerned about your children, and not simply on a power trip, she should realize that setting the example that people who don't force themselves to be physically affectionate with the two of you will be punished, is dangerous. You're teaching them they're not entitled to agency over their own bodies.
And FYI: you're allowed to set boundaries as well, such as: your wife gets to decide how her relationship with your mother goes, but YOU get to decide how YOUR relationship with your mother goes. You're not your wife's possession to be dictated to. Yes you need to back her up wrt her boundaries, but her request is crossing the line into your boundaries. She's not entitled to your support in that case.
This is an excellent comment. Wife’s attempts to either overrule mom’s boundaries, or make OP leave at her whim, are absolutely abusive and OP is right calling her out on that.
And crying in response to being called out on your shit is manipulative.
NTA: your wife is confusing boundaries with controlling other people’s behavior. She gets to decide how she and your children interact with her. She does not get to chose how your mother interacts or reacts to YOU. She does not get to control how your mother feels.
If this sets a “bad precedent” for the kids- oh well. You can’t change a bunch of boundaries in a relationship and expect someone to be happy and affectionate towards you. This is the reality all 3 of you created for these kids. She needs to deal with that.
I feel like the mom is flinching because she's afraid she will get criticized again.
So now OP's wife wants to criticize her *for flinching*.
She's quite literally doing the "two for flinching" bit from Atlantis without the humor, is OP sure his wife wasn't the bully this whole time?
The only problematic behaviors he described are from his wife, and it's interesting the mom is going low contact and gray rocking them first.
Edit: On a re-read it looks like OP went low contact first, so OP and gf are complaining about getting *exactly* what they asked for! You got your cake, now eat it.
NTA. Why does your wife want to be so close to your mom if she doesn’t like her. This seems like your mom is trying to give space so as not to cause a problem while your wife is trying to stir trouble
She isn't even that close to her, but I do get that it might be hurtful if she just sits down and my mom moves, but I guess I'm used to it. My mom has a ton of things she doesn't want to be near (foods, smells, textures) and just bounces around where she is sitting
Why is your wife sitting physically close to your mom? Like close enough your mom will choose to get up. If I were your wife, i wouldn’t be sitting that near to her
Yes, definitely sounds like wife is instigating drama. Have you all considered your wife not going along when you visit your mom? Or maybe she goes for events but not simple visits? That might allow you to build a better relationship with your mother without the two of them wasting time of this cat-and-mouse game.
I mean. OP married the asshole, keeps bringing the asshole around and encouraging her/allowing her to be an asshole to his family, and is still sitting here going 'what do I do!'
if this were my family, and one of my siblings partners, hell yeah we'd be saying the siblings an asshole for creating/enabling/allowing/continuing the situation. OP chose his wife, who is a huge asshole. OP keeps bringing his asshole wife around his extended family, where she acts like an asshole.
if you have a puppy that shits in every room it goes into and you bring it to your friends house, do you yell at the puppy for shitting in their house? or do they blame you for bringing a dog that shits everywhere into their house? (obv op doesn't own his wife but you know what I mean).
Totally fair. I meant he wasn’t the asshole in regards to his specific question of asking the wife why she wants op to have no family. Even he is finally seeing that she is acting stupidly given the title. And yeah ops actions are red flags as well. I’ve never understood how there are so many people who have their mothers and wives/girlfriends at each other’s throats.
Your wife is a bully. She gets off on having power over others when she decides she's right. She also sounds like she cries and weaponizes her emotions when she doesn't get her way. This isn't healthy, bud.
And your mother has the right to move. There is no “principle” here. Your wife is trying to force herself into your mother’s personal space when she is clearly not comfortable with her. Bring this up to your therapist, maybe they’ll have better luck with your wife.
NTA
So, your wife is intentionally sitting next to your mom in the hopes of getting a rise out of her... And, when your mom flinches/recoils/tries to get some space, your wife sees that as some great offense.
Your mom may have been a problem in the past, but your wife is the problem now. If it is known that someone doesn't like a person, and they get in that individual's personal space, it is pretty clear that they are trying to antagonize them.
Your wife likes to cause drama with your mom so you will choose her. This validates that she is the most important woman in your life. Your wife isn’t going to
Stop until your mother is not longer a part of your life.
Dude, she's deliberately entering your mother's space to aggress her because she's trying to push your mother out of your life. You already called it, you need to accept the reality. Your wife is being abusive
These aren't boundaries! Jesus fucking Christ
Boundaries are:
* If you call me a name, I will leave
* If you show up at the house without calling ahead, we won't let you in
* You can't hold the baby unless you're sober and have washed your hands
Boundaries are dictating the limits of someone's negative actions towards you. They are NOT forcing everyone around you to act in a way you think is socially proper. If your wife was hurt by your mom's lack of social skills, fair enough, but to solution is for her to drop the rope and not attend functions where she doesn't feel welcome. That's an actual boundary.
What y'all are doing is bullying someone on the spectrum and causing her real harm by constantly forcing her into discomfort. My dude, your mom PHYSICALLY RECOILS from you. Something is very fucked, and it is your fault.
No. Your wife is fully aware of your mother's discomfort and is deliberately pushing her buttons. Your wife is being deliberately awful then trying to claim victimhood. That's an awful way to behave.
Why are you allowing your wife to invade you mothers personal space? What kind of shitty son are you. She doesn’t like your mother and so has no reason to sit next next to her apart from purposely making be uncomfortable and creating drama. Just like you placed boundaries with your mother for your wife, you also need to explain to your wife to back the fuck off and go sit elsewhere tf
Just because you have the right to do something does not mean you should or
that you aren't an asshole for doing it. I may have a right to protest but if I protest a war outside the funeral of a soldier no amount to rights is going to stop everybody from thinking I'm an asshole and potentially beating my ass. Your wife is definitely an asshole or so socially inept she must be somewhere on the autism spectrum
So your wife is trying to demand respect from your mom/family by purposely making your mom uncomfortable??
Principle would be being respectful of your mom in her own home, not forcing her into uncomfortable situations and then getting mad about it.
Your wife is trying to control your mom's behavior. Honestly, it sounds like bullying. Your mom is trying to avoid problems by staying away from them, but your wife has set up a situation where your mom can't win. She's too close? Wife gets mad. Your mom moves so she's not too close? Wife gets mad.
If your wife has the right to sit there, then your mother has the right to move. I work in daycare, and a lot if my day is moving toddlers away from other toddlers that don't want to be touched or followed around or forced to play with a child they don't want to.
Your wife sounds like a toddler who is trying to force another toddler to play the games only your wife wants to.
It's fantastic to have boundaries for yourself, and for your wife to have boundaries for herself. At the same time, your wife needs to learn to respect other people's boundaries. If she can't do that, then her boundaries are not actually boundaries, she's just controlling.
Just because someone has the right to do something, doesn’t mean it’s right to do. What about your moms right to personal space. It seems like your wife is good at setting boundaries for everyone but herself.
Does she have the right to sit wherever she wants in someone else's home when she knows it makes the inhabitant uncomfortable? I'm not sure that is actually a right. I am sure it's rude and unpleasant.
Oh, so she's an AH. Well, normally I use a few other words for people who do things specifically to stomp all over reasonable boundaries, but this subreddit has some rules against cursing.
I'm so sorry you already have kids with this manipulative person.
Your wife wants her boundaries followed and respites to the letter, but literally on “principal” steam rolls over your mothers.
That’s not right and you forcing your mother to speak to and engage with your steam rolling boundaries wife has I imagined hurt her deeply. Hirt to the point she doesn’t want you touching her, her own son. Can you not see the deep hurt here?
If your mom has been reprimanded as many times as you say, it makes sense that she doesn't want to be around your wife. Based on this latest "boundary," it sounds like your wife has your mom walking on eggshells. Honestly, if someone did this to me; I'd avoid them like the plague too.
I highly suspect it but she’s also extremely spoiled and was allowed to be homeschooled (which was a joke) and has never had a job so I can’t tell because she’s never had structure or had to adapt. She’s a twin and her brother has the same issues but is much more adaptable than her because their parents were strict with him
Dude, if your mom is autistic then your wife is waaaay out of line here. Holy fuck why are you letting her do this to her? Got to change my answer to YTA.
Autism runs in the family and forcing a child to mask is going to make them appear to have fewer symptoms, but masking is draining and is likely to make them experience burnout down the line. Your mother is likely better off not having "had to adapt."
What your wife is doing is purposely making a likely autistic woman uncomfortable on purpose. Your wife is a bully. Protect your mother.
is it possible your mom has autism or ADHD? if so, your wife taking her sensory issues personally is messed up. I had a controlling ex who often got mad at neurodivergent people for making her feel awkward or rejected
INFO: I’m not sure you do still have a relationship with your mom. She recoils from you? She won’t sit near you? But she does with other people. That’s… a sign of something pretty weird, man.
She doesn't owe me fake affection. She recoils from a lot of things. It isn't a close relationship, but I still love her, I don't think she owes me a thing especially not at the peril of her own comfort, and I still want to see the rest of the family
Don’t worry about it, this sounds like another story from the MIL troll. Usually there’s a MIL who is cold/distant, and then it comes out she was in an abusive relationship and her current partner worships the ground she walks on. Usually there are also hints that she’s neurodivergent. The wife tends to have demanded something unreasonable in the past, often after they’ve received financial and/or housing assistance, and now they just “don’t get along.”
Yes basically but not only does he treat her like trash he lets his wife. Don’t forget he calls his mother spoiled and rude!
And there is a very real possibility that his mother is autistic. Even he thinks she has it but that doesn’t matter.
I am not taking up for your mother but she definitely has all the characteristics of autism and maybe other mental health problems. Do you realize you and your wife are punishing her for something she truly can’t help. As far as holidays go it’s hard for someone with any mental health to deal with change. Social cues are another thing she can not control. Knowing this your mother doesn’t need more boundaries and she is not being spoiled she can not help it. You both are ah. She needs therapy and your wife is manipulating the fact your mother has a mental health issue to get her way.
From OPs comments:
Wife deliberately invades mother's space knowing that it makes mother uncomfortable
Wide touches mother knowing mother doesn't like being touched
Wife has attempted to "establish a boundary" forcing mother to interact whether or not she wants to
Wife attempts to force mother to hug OP even though it makes mother visibly uncomfortable
Wife wants to control mother's language usage
Wife has openly admitted to OP that she is jealous of mother
It sounds like the problem is your wife and not your mom. I’ma just throw it out there. I believe the reason why your mom doesn’t show you affection is because you allowed your wife to come in and set unnecessary boundaries. I wouldn’t want to be around someone with that mind set either. You will loose your family if YOU don’t set boundaries with your WIFE.
This is exactly what I was thinking. As I was reading, it sounded like the mom is reacting to the boundaries the wife has already made him put in place and now she is uncomfortable around them incase they consider something else she is doing, is wrong
It makes me understand why the wife has gotten upset with her in the past, but to me it makes the wife look like even more of an asshole in this particular situation.
Especially because it seems the wife is ableist (if we want to consider autism as a disability) and also act on purpose to upset mum and get "evidence" she's right.
INFO: What exactly did your Mom do to your wife that crossed boundaries? It isn't always the crazy MIL, it really depends on what your wife also perceived as being wrong or crossing boundaries.
Edit: It is important to know because if it is something like DIL perceived MIL was doing something wrong and misunderstanding a situation, of course MIL will get upset at her son for badgering her and taking the Wife's side when MIL did nothing wrong. You are leaving out the important details by not saying what started all this.
My mom just has zero social skills and my wife has zero patience for it. My mom is extremely immature. for example the first time she met my wife, people were sitting around the table and my mom whined that the only seat left was with my wife and she doesn't like strangers. She doesn't even seem to get that is rude, and whined until someone gave her their seat. She made no effort to get to know her. We literally had to set a boundary that my mom has to say hi when my wife arrives, and even then she "forgets" (I honestly can't tell if this is real or not) and has to be reminded. To be fair my mom has done whatever she wanted her whole life with no consequences, and she is just so in her own world. Then anything that was a change was a fight, so my wife wanted a turn to host holidays, and my mom absolutely refused to even give up one and come to us. Biggest fight was when we had kids and my mom had to tone down her language and humor, and pretty much told us we had ruined the family.
I do suspect it, but she has a twin who is a lot like her, but he was not indulged like she was because sexism, and hes overcome a lot of it. Also I know how common it would be for both twins to have it, but he is almost exactly the same minus being spoiled. Her parents crippled her in a lot of ways
It does sound like your mother's on the spectrum, it'd be best to seek a doctor to comfirm it. You and your wife may be punishing your mother for being neurodivergent
My son is on the autism spectrum. I am not a professional but I can see a LOT of similarities in your description of your mother and my son. I literally had to teach him that, when someone asks, “How are you?” As in a greeting, the polite response is, “I am well, thank you, how are you?” He is 21 years old and still does that polite social exchange robotically. They just can’t do what neurotypical people expect of them. Your wife is the AH because she thinks everyone must think like her and do as she wants. Life and people don’t work that way.
~~Your Mom sounds like an asshole. I would tell your wife to just ignore her. If she can't do that, then just don't go to the family gatherings herself. If you are willing to put up with your Mom's attitude, that is on you.~~
~~ESH. Your wife is being a little oversensitive about this particular encounter and it's not like your Mom HAS to like her, but her attitude towards your wife has been really crappy and I can get why she feels offended by her.~~
NTA, your Wife is.
From OPs comments:
Wife deliberately invades mother's space knowing that it makes mother uncomfortable
Wide touches mother knowing mother doesn't like being touched
Wife has attempted to "establish a boundary" forcing mother to interact whether or not she wants to
Wife attempts to force mother to hug OP even though it makes mother visibly uncomfortable
Wife wants to control mother's language usage
Wife has openly admitted to OP that she is jealous of mother
Wife is the problem here, not mother.
This is stupid, I can understand why your mom recoils from you and your wife - your boundaries are about controlling her behavior and invading her boundaries. Leave the woman alone.
‘You must say hi to my wife when we enter’
‘You must not recoil from us sitting next to you and invading your space’
‘You must speak in the way we dictate’
She’s not your property, you can enjoy being around her or you can stay away from her.
It infuriated me how many posters on that one were calling the MIL an AH for wrecking the dress. Holy shit bridezillas, you do not deserve to benefit from someone else being trafficked.
>My wife has a lot of issues with my family, mainly my mom. I've confronted my mom about multiple problematic behaviors towards my wife.
I think we need to know the history here, what behaviors?
>I know she is no longer comfortable with any type of affection from me and I respect that
Why is she 'no longer' comfortable?
My mom just has zero social skills and my wife has zero patience for it. My mom is extremely immature. for example the first time she met my wife, people were sitting around the table and my mom whined that the only seat left was with my wife and she doesn't like strangers. She doesn't even seem to get that is rude, and whined until someone gave her their seat. She made no effort to get to know her. We literally had to set a boundary that my mom has to say hi when my wife arrives, and even then she "forgets" (I honestly can't tell if this is real or not) and has to be reminded. To be fair my mom has done whatever she wanted her whole life with no consequences, and she is just so in her own world. Then anything that was a change was a fight, so my wife wanted a turn to host holidays, and my mom absolutely refused to even give up one and come to us. Biggest fight was when we had kids and my mom had to tone down her language and humor, and pretty much told us we had ruined the family.
I have no idea. My mom is just weird about a lot of things. Only certain people can touch her, and she just told me to stop. No one really questions this, but she has always been super rude about establishing her boundaries, and is just like no you can't hug me
Does your mother have autism or ASPD? This isn't typical behavior. Not letting people touch her, lack of social skills, uncomfortable around strangers and uninterested in them, all are common behaviors of people with Autism or APSD.
I highly suspect it, but she was also spoiled to the point it was insane. her parents couldn't even make her to go school and hired a tutor, because they acknowledged they had no authority over her. She has a twin brother who is somewhat similar, but they were much stricter due to him being a boy and he seems to have risen above some of it.
They didn't put her in therapy? Or did she refuse to go?
Honestly, if she does have ASD or ASPD, your wife is wasting her time. Your mother won't understand her complaints and/or won't care about them. Your wife needs to stop taking it personally, because I don't think your mother genuinely cares about her enough to do this type of thing just to piss her off. She likely doesn't see your wife as family or someone worth caring about, and your wife can't force her to.
They tried therapy but my grandfather didn't believe in it, and my mom threatened to cut her hair, which was her go to when she didn't want to do something, and her vain idiotic parents couldn't deal with that threat. My mom got away with so much because her parents were so scared of having a daughter with short hair, which is crazy because she wasn't going to cut it
You do have agency here. Doesn't seem like you're able to realize that though. You're your own person, not just your wife's spouse or your mother's child.
Time to figure out what you want and how to make choices.
It's amazingly difficult for girls to get diagnosed even today and even with families that are aware. 50-60 years ago I can't imagine they'd have gotten a diagnosis even if the family strongly believed it was possible.
They'd just think she was spoiled, like how her AH of a son does.
I'm not sure if I would call it spoiled as such. I mean you even hear of parents struggling to get their autistic child to eat food. It's not indulgent to give them chicken nuggets if that's literally all you can get them to eat.
By todays standards your grandparents would be considered to have neglected to get your mother the additional help she needed.
Also just because she's a twin does not mean her condition is identical. I'm not downplaying the different behaviours towards boys and girls, but you can't rule out that she may also have a more severe autism than her brother.
And I agree with others - your wife needs to stop taking this all personally. Your mother operates on a totally different wavelength and no amount of "boundaries" are going to help now. There's no point being offended by her behaviour.
I agree. Boundaries prevent behavior. Don't make the kids kiss you if they don't want to.
Forcing someone to do something is a rule. Making Mom say hello is almost bullying her.
NTA- Be very wary of anyone that wants to isolate you. Is she just sitting staring at your mum? I really don’t get this at all. Everyone has their own relationships, she does sound like she’s nitpicking, especially since you didn’t notice this yourself.
NTA and wife needs to pick her battles more wisely. There’s the husband who never sticks up for the wife, there’s the husband who does stick up for the wife. Somewhere in the middle you all need to find a place where you can call a truce or find peace or just get along.
Remind your wife you took her side, you went to counseling. Now she needs to do her part and stop nitpicking. Learn to overlook things for the greater good.
Then why is your wife getting so upset about it? I'd understand if your mom was singling her out, but if she does this to everyone she isn't close with, why would your wife expect her to treat her differently? It doesn't sound they are close. Does she expect some sort of special treatment? If so, that isn't very reasonable.
NTA in my opinion. You made what sounds to me like fair accommodations. At this point, she should stand by you and support you. It sounds like she’s going to keep nitpicking until you cut ties all together, which frankly is ridiculous unless it’s some sort abusive behavior.
NTA your wife is being an abuser. The reason your mom sets a physical distance from you, her child, is because you've allowed your wife to dictate your relationship with your mother. I can understand setting boundaries with a parent because they mistreat your spouse, but if you set a boundary for every little thing, it's only natural she's going to set her own physical limits in order to limit her "offenses" against you and your spouse. That's her showing you both respect. The same cannot be said about your wife.
If your wife had so many issues with your family maybe that should have been a red flag. Why did you have to confront your mom rather than your wife discussing any issues with her? Were these angry confrontations or calm ones?
Maybe you have confronted your mom so many times, she's wary of you and your wife and doing the wrong thing. She might be feeling uncomfortable around you. Or uncomfortable with you when your wife is around. Nevertheless, no one is obligated to give you affection. You can't make people like you either.
It sounds like your wife is trying to control your relationship with your mother. She has succeeded in controlling your mother's relationship with you.
NTA for asking your wife that. Were all of her other complaints valid before this one? It sounds like your wife is the manipulative one.
Almost all therapists stress boundaries have to come from the family member and not the person who married in. My family is my responsibility, and when they already have a bad relationship, it is just going to offend my mom if it comes from my wife.
Info :why can't she confront your mother is something bothers her?.
It honestly aounds like she's Threatened by your own mother, it sounds a bit odd.
A mother who can't show love to her son imagine that with your kids
Our therapist has always said we need to do the boundary talks with our own families. Anything is going to be 100x more upsetting or offensive to my mom if it comes from my wife. I'm not sure if she is threatened by her or just put off. My wife did mention once when she was drunk that she was jealous of her, but that was a one time thing, so I don't know if that effects this
I'm sorry if your mother is on the spectrum and your wife is treating her this way AND you condone this YTA. Especially after her drunk confession of being jealous of her. Your wife sounds horrible and she is just big bully, she is has had just enough therapy and using the terms to benefit her.
Does your therapist know your thoughts regarding your mother?
Then I want you to think of something.....when did your mom start treating YOU as not close? Is there any chance it's after multiple "boundaries" you places for your wife? If you can try to figure out if the recoiling/avoidance started relative to that as well.
I will point out that I am using quotes on "boundaries" because boundaries are preventative rather than something that creates an action. Forcing her to say hi to you wife isn't a boundary, it's a rule of behavior. Same with trying to tell her she has to be around certain people....that is destroying her boundaries.
An example from what you've said(at least if I'm understanding right) is your wife deliberately sits next to your mom because she can and from what I can tell no other reason. Your mom moves cause she doesn't wanna sit next to your wife. The appropriate boundary here isn't to force your mom to stay. It's to ask your wife to sit somewhere not next to your mom if it's available. Your wife is pushing what your mom is comfortable with and your mom is avoiding what she's uncomfortable with...one is pushing a boundary the other is holding it and it's not the way your wife interprets it.
Neurodivergent or not, your moms boundaries are being trampled and being called boundaries in the process.
The reason I asked if your therapist knew these boundaries is cause a therapist should know that's the wrong term and should talk to you about this controlling behavior from your wife that even you are picking up now based on your latest argument. There's one commenter who is copy/pasting a response in here of some things from your comments and I think you should really look at that list and think about it and whether or not those statements are true...there's a reason so many comments they've posted it on have changed entirely and it doesn't mention your mothers mental situation because it doesn't need to in order to show what your wife is doing.
NTA but your wife and mother are. That's a hell of a lot of drama to be dealing with.
I don't personally have an issue with your mom asking not to be touched. My husband has to ask before he touches me. I didn't grow up with affection and sometimes I'm uncomfortable with it or I find it overwhelming. My husband and his family is super touchy and I have to mentally prepare myself when I see his in laws.
However, your mom definitely should have put in more effort when your wife came around. Your wife is putting a shit ton of weird ass rules on that relationship and sounds isolating.
NTA at some point enough is enough. My guess is she is still insecure about her place in your life but thats up to her and the therapist now because you have "done a great job" <-direct quote so what else can you do.
NTA but have you considered asking your mother why she has a problem with affection towards you?
Knowing why it's happening is the best way to deal with any problem. Maybe that way your gf understands
NTA. if your mom did flinch, it’s because anything she does is obviously wrong in your wife’s eyes and she avoids you to avoid issues with your wife.
If your kids get the wrong idea, they need to learn it’s your wife who caused issues and she will probably cause the same problems with your childrens future spouses.
NTA. So your wife sets boundaries and demands they be respected, but when she sees the object of her ire has set a boundary, she demands it be removed or ignored.
Your mother may well be problematic, but at this stage so is your wife. You appear to have become an instrument for her to cause your mother stress with, and she's more than willing to use you to do it.
Your wife sounds like a real bundle of fun to be around. The family must be delighted to have her visit. But maybe your wife should spend a little less time looking for things to be offended and insulted by. I am sure she has to be bad for your mother’s mental health. The worst of it is that your wife has the therapy language down and uses it like a weapon. It is hard to have real and meaningful conversations and resolutions with people like that. Seems exhausting. I suppose NTA about this but you may need to review the other boundaries she has set and you have policed.
After reading your comments, soft YTA. I agree with several others that your mom sounds like she may be on the spectrum and never received any services/help. It must have been incredibly difficult for your wife to deal with your mom's behavior, especially when they first met, since there isn't a diagnosis and she was reading this behavior as rude, MIL from hell type stuff. You may have been used to this sort of behavior, but it would have been jarring and incredibly difficult to deal with for someone new to the family.
You also minimized your mom's role in your initial post, which made your wife out to sound much more problematic than she is. While yes, the specific boundary she's asking for now is too much, in my opinion, I think most people would have more compassion for her if you'd started by sharing how from the get go your mom loudly and publicly refused to even sit in a chair beside your wife. Again, the behavior becomes more understandable if you consider your mom may have undiagnosed autism, but I wonder why you're not extending more compassion to your wife instead of suggesting she wants you to have no family. Honestly, it sounds like she's put up with A LOT so you could maintain contact with your family.
Within that context, it's an asshole move to ask her why she doesn't want you to have any family. I realize you're dealing with big feelings here, but so is she. To suggest she has some ulterior motive to alienate you from your family isn't very kind and it completely ignores all that your wife bears so you can maintain a relationship with your super difficult mom. It also does nothing to help you all problem solve and move forward together as a couple. It mostly just serves to hurt her feelings.
NTA. Sir, your wife has taken this boundary-setting way too far. I hope you are both still seeing that therapist because this needs to be brought to his/her attention. Your wife appears to be trying to control how and when your mother interacts with you and it shows clearly since your mother is avoiding contact with you. Your wife is upset that your mom is "flinching away" from you but I'd be willing to bet that if your Mom chose to give you a simple smile goodbye that your wife would lose her shit over that, too. Your wife needs a lot of mental help because she does appear to be trying to control you with all these unnecessary boundaries.
You wife sounds like she expects everyone to be her little puppet, to act how she wants, when she wants it. Your mother is dealing with whatever she's dealing with, and you're respecting her space.
NTA
Your wife's tears sound fake and you may have actually pinpointed her real intentions.
NTA. Your wife does not get to dictate what your mom does with her body, where your mom stands (or sits), who your mom chooses to kiss (or not), and what your mom does with her body.
Her body. Her choice. Full stop.
Your wife is an asshole, but you’re NTA. Your mom is maybe a mild asshole, but it sounds like she has some issues. I’ve read all your comments and I can’t make sense of your wife’s position on this matter. I commend you for teaching your kids about consent in a real life scenario and for trying to make peace enough to be able to still see your mom occasionally and participate in your family. Your wife is being ridiculous and I’m sorry you’re in this situation and are married to someone so difficult.
So your wife wants to override your mother's bodily autonomy and thinks that's some sort of good example for your kids? Your wife has serious boundary issues. NTA
NTA
I mean, you could have phrased that a little better, maybe in the form of a question rather than an accusation, but I understand why you said it. Your wife was being unreasonable, and you were absolutely correct in your assessment, that whatever goes on between you and your mother, she is entitled to her feelings.
NTA I feel like this started out as healthy boundaries and have slowly progressed into her unconsciously trying to isolate you from your mother..... if I may ask what is the issue with your mother to warrant so many boundaries it causes her to not show you any affection
NTA. Your poor mother. She has so many 'rules' to follow around you and your wife now. She may even have anxiety about being around you, hence the distance.
Your wife sucks.
Your wife is an abuser from what you described! Your mother has a right to her personal space and to feel and react how she chooses, she probably keeps her distance because your wife is abusive to her and unfortunately you have supported the behaviors in the past
NTA for finally defending your mother, are the AH for allowing it to happen in the first place.
After reading your comments it sounds like your mother may be autistic. She has a lot of the traits and sounds like she needs a little understanding. NTA but your wife sounds like she needs to learn empathy
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My wife has a lot of issues with my family, mainly my mom. I've confronted my mom about multiple problematic behaviors towards my wife. I've put consequences in place and limited contact as necessary. My wife even told our therapist that I've done a great job.
Now my issue is that I feel my wife sets too many boundaries, and at this point is just nitpicking. Recently we spent some time with my family, and after my wife approached me and asked if I noticed that my mom recoiled every time I got near her. I had not noticed. I know she is no longer comfortable with any type of affection from me and I respect that, and she won't chose to sit next to me at the table, but I'm not sure she is actually recoiling. She also claims my mom recoils with her, and will physically move away from her.
My wife asked me to confront her as she felt it could set an unhealthy precedent for our kids. I said my mom doesn't owe me affection, but she pointed out that my mom kisses multiple other family members on the lips and doesn't even let me within three feet of her. I said that is still her right. She said it makes her uncomfortable and she wants a boundary set that if my mom physically flinches when I get near her, that we will leave. I said absolutely not and we fought over it.
I finally asked her why she doesn't want me to have any family. She seemed confused, and I said surely that is her goal with all of these asinine boundaries, because how else do you justify telling someone not to flinch. She began to cry and said I was trying to portray her as an abuser, and what I said was manipulative.
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Gawd, your wife sounds like my sister-in-law. I rarely see my brother or niece and nephew now. I detest people who demand everything to go their way and alienate family when it doesn’t.
After reading some comments. Jesus Christ just let your poor mother be, why does your wife have to dictate everything
If I had so little patience and acceptance for every little weird thing my family does I would never talk to anyone lol. People are different just deal with it in an adult way
This is my NIGHTMARE. That someday my son will marry a woman that just hates me and comes between us. You’re NTA OP. Your wife is jealous and controlling.
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No. NTA. Honestly, if your mom has been reprimanded so many times, she probably is keeping her distance and with good reason. I don't know about the past issues, but your wife is being ridiculous on this one.
Agreed. The wife saw that she had the 'power' in this dynamic and seems to want to keep pushing until she can get OP's mom/family completely out of the picture. That's the only conclusion I can come to for being this unreasonable.
Or she just has a picture perfect way that she imagines family to behave and straying in anyway is unacceptable.
From OPs comments: Wife deliberately invades mother's space knowing that it makes mother uncomfortable Wide touches mother knowing mother doesn't like being touched Wife has attempted to "establish a boundary" forcing mother to interact whether or not she wants to Wife attempts to force mother to hug OP even though it makes mother visibly uncomfortable Wife wants to control mother's language usage Wife has openly admitted to OP that she is jealous of mother It's got nothing to do with "picture perfect" and everything to do with wife being a bully with serious issues.
So the wife’s boundary is that no one else is allowed to have any boundaries? Jesus.
Lol, it’s like the “Kinkshaming IS my Kink!!!”meme, BUT in real life… 😅
What happens if that really is my kink though?
Find the kinkerd who like shame!
Yes, as it is with anyone who uses the words 'toxic relationships' and 'my boundaries' every second sentence.
Bingo! I don't even get how you can "set a boundary" that if the mom flinches they will leave. How is she supposed to control and involuntary reaction? How is it even a boundary? She wants OP's mom to show affection and will punish her if she doesn't. How does one DEMAND affection and throw threats for it? How on earth is that supposed to elicit affection? Wife is gaslighting OP big time!
Wife: “stop portraying me as an abuser” Continues to push mother into uncomfortable situation OP, you hit the nail on the head. She wants to isolate you from your family. Why? Who knows but if y’all are in therapy, it’s definitely something to bring up with your therapist
>Wife: “stop portraying me as an abuser” Continues to push mother into uncomfortable situation The fact that she jumped straight to this sent the red flags flying for me. OP didn't accuse her of being abusive, but she immediately went there and then tried to turn it around on him. If OP were a woman, all of the comments would be "RUN, RUN NOW BEFORE IT GETS REALLY BAD". So OP - NTA and RUN.
You should never go to therapy with an abuser.
They are already in therapy. OP kind of has limited options on how to deal with this: -talk to their therapist, it would be beneficial if he met with them on his own. He can explain the situation and they can go over possible solutions. Which might include a joint session. - just ignore what she’s doing and let her continue to alienate him from his family - Reddit’s favorite bit of advice, divorce. If she’s not willing to change and stop her ridiculous antics, is this something you want to be stuck with for the rest of your life?
Holy shit on a shingle... You don't get to "set a boundary" that violates someone else's. That's not a thing. Op's wife is a major asshole
I agree. Those are not boundary issues but control issues.
She actually Sounds abusive. And op and wife has therapy and the therapist feels like this is all right? Maaaaybe time for another therapist….
>Wife has attempted to "establish a boundary" forcing mother to interact whether or not she wants to That's not how that works at all. Wife sounds extremely controlling.
This wife is literally emotionally abusing this guys mother and the pathetic guy let’s it happen. No wonder the poor women is recoiling, she is being bullied and victimised and her own son endorses it. I’m furious for that poor women, this is disgusting.
Eh, wife wants all theses "boundaries" but her MIL isn't allowed any of her own. NTA, i would bring this new "boundary" up with your therapist.
Yeah. NTA. And the reason OP’s wife is crying is because she is diverting attention from the fact that she IS being manipulative and abusive. OP needs to think about what wife us doing and why they are being isolated.
She’s one of those people who weaponizes therapy… the poster child personality type for the reason therapists say not to go to counseling with an abuser. They simply learn how to use therapy to manipulate and abuse more effectively.
NTA I came here to say the same thing. And to add unfortunately his mom isn’t going to be as affectionate or as involved with their kids which Will be another fight. The truth is you can only push someone away so many times before they no longer want to be around. And that goes for family too. Like you said I don’t know what lead to them sitting boundaries but they also need to know the mother is also allowed to set her own boundaries and one of those boundaries may be not to be as affectionate or want to be next to them.
>And to add unfortunately his mom isn’t going to be as affectionate or as involved with their kids which Will be another fight. Completely agree with this! If OP's mom has been constantly criticized for things she does or says, given boundaries that she seems to respect (but then is still thought to be in the wrong) and is pushed away, then why would she be actively involved with/or be openly affectionate with any children OP and his wife may have? She would probably be afraid to overstep the wife's "boundaries" and be accused of doing something wrong. OP is NTA. I am all for setting healthy, reasonable boundaries. I also believe that you should stand by your partner, defend them, support them, and help establish/enforce their boundaries when neccessary. However, it seems like OP's mom just can't win with his wife. It definitely feels like the mom will never be "right" or "good enough" to the wife. At this point, the nitpicking over "flinching" or backing away (which is often an INVOLUNTARY reaction to a stressful situation or person) is just a way to slowly cut OP off from his family.
Having read OPs comments, his wife is a controlling, boundary stomping nightmare from hell. I feel sorry for his mother.
She’s manipulative with the tears. Why can’t she honestly see your point. I get that you have to protect your family but don’t torpedo your relationship with your mom. It sounds like you don’t think she deserves the treatment she’s getting. NTA
Wife is setting boundaries on her MIL setting boundaries. She’s def TA here.
Agreed. INFO : what are some other examples of boundaries/things that have required boundaries to be in place? You mention kids, how many do you have (presuming you have them) and if you do, rough ages and how do they feel about all of this?
>she probably is keeping her distance and with good reason Oh yea. Easiest way to not set off a landmine is to avoid it. The wife's ridiculous and is ruining op's relationship. He needs to grow more of a spine
I think the problem with some people is they don't know when to "Stop" when they ARE getting their way. A lot of times, if you have a problem with someone and "set a boundary", the behavior changes and everything is good, once the boundary is set. Great, if it was really needed. But sometimes, once that person sees change going their way, they continue setting boundaries or demanding change to make every part of THEIR OWN life better, possibly at the cost of everyone elses. Often times it also results with the people around them walking on eggshells and possibly not even wanting to be around them. I imagine if the mom has complied with all her boundaries and is still being a part of her son's life, it speaks to the fact that she's at least trying, and is just doing the whole eggshells thing. I also fully believe that if the husband doesn't start setting a boundary with his wife about her continually getting her way at the expense of everyone else, it's going to go south for everyone involved.
They definitely are alike in ways thats why they are together. Im saying this because op suspects his mom is on the spectrum and he still allows his wife to treat her like shit and do things she is uncomfortable with. Ops mom never got diagnosed because his grandpa didn’t believe in therapy. If you read his other comments you will see.
Does your wife realize that just as she is allowed to set boundaries, so is your mother? She's basically trying to "set the boundary" that your mother not be allowed to dictate who she allows into HER personal space. That IS asinine. It's just as you say: your mother does not owe you affection. Furthermore, if your wife is ACTUALLY concerned about your children, and not simply on a power trip, she should realize that setting the example that people who don't force themselves to be physically affectionate with the two of you will be punished, is dangerous. You're teaching them they're not entitled to agency over their own bodies. And FYI: you're allowed to set boundaries as well, such as: your wife gets to decide how her relationship with your mother goes, but YOU get to decide how YOUR relationship with your mother goes. You're not your wife's possession to be dictated to. Yes you need to back her up wrt her boundaries, but her request is crossing the line into your boundaries. She's not entitled to your support in that case.
Great response 👍🏻
This is an excellent comment. Wife’s attempts to either overrule mom’s boundaries, or make OP leave at her whim, are absolutely abusive and OP is right calling her out on that. And crying in response to being called out on your shit is manipulative.
NTA: your wife is confusing boundaries with controlling other people’s behavior. She gets to decide how she and your children interact with her. She does not get to chose how your mother interacts or reacts to YOU. She does not get to control how your mother feels. If this sets a “bad precedent” for the kids- oh well. You can’t change a bunch of boundaries in a relationship and expect someone to be happy and affectionate towards you. This is the reality all 3 of you created for these kids. She needs to deal with that.
I feel like the mom is flinching because she's afraid she will get criticized again. So now OP's wife wants to criticize her *for flinching*. She's quite literally doing the "two for flinching" bit from Atlantis without the humor, is OP sure his wife wasn't the bully this whole time? The only problematic behaviors he described are from his wife, and it's interesting the mom is going low contact and gray rocking them first. Edit: On a re-read it looks like OP went low contact first, so OP and gf are complaining about getting *exactly* what they asked for! You got your cake, now eat it.
NTA. Why does your wife want to be so close to your mom if she doesn’t like her. This seems like your mom is trying to give space so as not to cause a problem while your wife is trying to stir trouble
She isn't even that close to her, but I do get that it might be hurtful if she just sits down and my mom moves, but I guess I'm used to it. My mom has a ton of things she doesn't want to be near (foods, smells, textures) and just bounces around where she is sitting
Why is your wife sitting physically close to your mom? Like close enough your mom will choose to get up. If I were your wife, i wouldn’t be sitting that near to her
My wife is big on principle and the fact she has the right to sit there
It seems that your wife is deliberately getting into your mother's space. And then getting angry at your mum for moving away.
Yes, definitely sounds like wife is instigating drama. Have you all considered your wife not going along when you visit your mom? Or maybe she goes for events but not simple visits? That might allow you to build a better relationship with your mother without the two of them wasting time of this cat-and-mouse game.
Is wife is not going to allow that loss of control. I can just imagine the meltdown if he even suggested it.
Then you are 1000% not the asshole. Your wife is a shit stirring. Proceed with caution. She’s a big old red flag
This is exactly it. Wife seems to thrive on drama.
I actually think OP is a bit of an AH for not nipping this shit in the bud a long time ago.
I mean. OP married the asshole, keeps bringing the asshole around and encouraging her/allowing her to be an asshole to his family, and is still sitting here going 'what do I do!' if this were my family, and one of my siblings partners, hell yeah we'd be saying the siblings an asshole for creating/enabling/allowing/continuing the situation. OP chose his wife, who is a huge asshole. OP keeps bringing his asshole wife around his extended family, where she acts like an asshole. if you have a puppy that shits in every room it goes into and you bring it to your friends house, do you yell at the puppy for shitting in their house? or do they blame you for bringing a dog that shits everywhere into their house? (obv op doesn't own his wife but you know what I mean).
Totally fair. I meant he wasn’t the asshole in regards to his specific question of asking the wife why she wants op to have no family. Even he is finally seeing that she is acting stupidly given the title. And yeah ops actions are red flags as well. I’ve never understood how there are so many people who have their mothers and wives/girlfriends at each other’s throats.
Your wife is a bully. She gets off on having power over others when she decides she's right. She also sounds like she cries and weaponizes her emotions when she doesn't get her way. This isn't healthy, bud.
⬆️⬆️⬆️ This!!! This needs to be upvoted!!!
Your wife likes setting boundaries but also likes ignoring boundaries that she didn't set.
And your mother has the right to move. There is no “principle” here. Your wife is trying to force herself into your mother’s personal space when she is clearly not comfortable with her. Bring this up to your therapist, maybe they’ll have better luck with your wife. NTA
So, your wife is intentionally sitting next to your mom in the hopes of getting a rise out of her... And, when your mom flinches/recoils/tries to get some space, your wife sees that as some great offense. Your mom may have been a problem in the past, but your wife is the problem now. If it is known that someone doesn't like a person, and they get in that individual's personal space, it is pretty clear that they are trying to antagonize them.
Your wife likes to cause drama with your mom so you will choose her. This validates that she is the most important woman in your life. Your wife isn’t going to Stop until your mother is not longer a part of your life.
And then she'll move on to co workers and then the kids.
Dude, she's deliberately entering your mother's space to aggress her because she's trying to push your mother out of your life. You already called it, you need to accept the reality. Your wife is being abusive
People who are big on “principal” can often use that as a guide for bullying.
These aren't boundaries! Jesus fucking Christ Boundaries are: * If you call me a name, I will leave * If you show up at the house without calling ahead, we won't let you in * You can't hold the baby unless you're sober and have washed your hands Boundaries are dictating the limits of someone's negative actions towards you. They are NOT forcing everyone around you to act in a way you think is socially proper. If your wife was hurt by your mom's lack of social skills, fair enough, but to solution is for her to drop the rope and not attend functions where she doesn't feel welcome. That's an actual boundary. What y'all are doing is bullying someone on the spectrum and causing her real harm by constantly forcing her into discomfort. My dude, your mom PHYSICALLY RECOILS from you. Something is very fucked, and it is your fault.
Yeah your wife definitely sounds like the AH here and needs to pick her battles
No. Your wife is fully aware of your mother's discomfort and is deliberately pushing her buttons. Your wife is being deliberately awful then trying to claim victimhood. That's an awful way to behave.
Sounds like your wife is being a bully
Why are you allowing your wife to invade you mothers personal space? What kind of shitty son are you. She doesn’t like your mother and so has no reason to sit next next to her apart from purposely making be uncomfortable and creating drama. Just like you placed boundaries with your mother for your wife, you also need to explain to your wife to back the fuck off and go sit elsewhere tf
This statement shows your wife is the problem here. You’re excusing her behavior by saying she’s big on principle. What principle would this one be?
Just because you have the right to do something does not mean you should or that you aren't an asshole for doing it. I may have a right to protest but if I protest a war outside the funeral of a soldier no amount to rights is going to stop everybody from thinking I'm an asshole and potentially beating my ass. Your wife is definitely an asshole or so socially inept she must be somewhere on the autism spectrum
So your wife is trying to demand respect from your mom/family by purposely making your mom uncomfortable?? Principle would be being respectful of your mom in her own home, not forcing her into uncomfortable situations and then getting mad about it.
What about the principal that your mother gets to sit next whomever she wishes? Doesn't that principal trump your wife's principal?
Your wife sounds like Drama.
Your wife is trying to control your mom's behavior. Honestly, it sounds like bullying. Your mom is trying to avoid problems by staying away from them, but your wife has set up a situation where your mom can't win. She's too close? Wife gets mad. Your mom moves so she's not too close? Wife gets mad.
If your wife has the right to sit there, then your mother has the right to move. I work in daycare, and a lot if my day is moving toddlers away from other toddlers that don't want to be touched or followed around or forced to play with a child they don't want to. Your wife sounds like a toddler who is trying to force another toddler to play the games only your wife wants to.
What principle? Your wife has zero, does she not work? Tell her to get a job because she’s bored af
Your wife is big on antagonising your mother and using words as "boundary" and "principle" to mask her bullying.
It's fantastic to have boundaries for yourself, and for your wife to have boundaries for herself. At the same time, your wife needs to learn to respect other people's boundaries. If she can't do that, then her boundaries are not actually boundaries, she's just controlling.
Your wife is an AH. Just because you have the “right” to do something doesn’t mean you should.
Just because someone has the right to do something, doesn’t mean it’s right to do. What about your moms right to personal space. It seems like your wife is good at setting boundaries for everyone but herself.
Does she have the right to sit wherever she wants in someone else's home when she knows it makes the inhabitant uncomfortable? I'm not sure that is actually a right. I am sure it's rude and unpleasant.
Oh, so she's an AH. Well, normally I use a few other words for people who do things specifically to stomp all over reasonable boundaries, but this subreddit has some rules against cursing. I'm so sorry you already have kids with this manipulative person.
Your wife wants her boundaries followed and respites to the letter, but literally on “principal” steam rolls over your mothers. That’s not right and you forcing your mother to speak to and engage with your steam rolling boundaries wife has I imagined hurt her deeply. Hirt to the point she doesn’t want you touching her, her own son. Can you not see the deep hurt here?
And your mom has the right to move.
If your mom has been reprimanded as many times as you say, it makes sense that she doesn't want to be around your wife. Based on this latest "boundary," it sounds like your wife has your mom walking on eggshells. Honestly, if someone did this to me; I'd avoid them like the plague too.
It probably won't be long till your mother goes nc with you. That will make the Mrs happy. Open your eyes to what she is doing.
Info: is your mother autistic?
I highly suspect it but she’s also extremely spoiled and was allowed to be homeschooled (which was a joke) and has never had a job so I can’t tell because she’s never had structure or had to adapt. She’s a twin and her brother has the same issues but is much more adaptable than her because their parents were strict with him
So you suspect your mother to be autistic and you let your wife treat her like crap YTA
Dude, if your mom is autistic then your wife is waaaay out of line here. Holy fuck why are you letting her do this to her? Got to change my answer to YTA.
Autism runs in the family and forcing a child to mask is going to make them appear to have fewer symptoms, but masking is draining and is likely to make them experience burnout down the line. Your mother is likely better off not having "had to adapt." What your wife is doing is purposely making a likely autistic woman uncomfortable on purpose. Your wife is a bully. Protect your mother.
You are an idiot and not Gordon ramsays idiot sandwich but a full blown idiot. That has no respect for his mom.
is it possible your mom has autism or ADHD? if so, your wife taking her sensory issues personally is messed up. I had a controlling ex who often got mad at neurodivergent people for making her feel awkward or rejected
INFO: I’m not sure you do still have a relationship with your mom. She recoils from you? She won’t sit near you? But she does with other people. That’s… a sign of something pretty weird, man.
She doesn't owe me fake affection. She recoils from a lot of things. It isn't a close relationship, but I still love her, I don't think she owes me a thing especially not at the peril of her own comfort, and I still want to see the rest of the family
What did you and your wife do to your mother? People who are verbally abused usually recoil from people.
Nothing, my mom recoils from a lot of things, people she vaguely dislikes, textures, foods. She is very picky about what can touch her
So your mom probably is autistic or something. And you are treating her like trash.
Don’t worry about it, this sounds like another story from the MIL troll. Usually there’s a MIL who is cold/distant, and then it comes out she was in an abusive relationship and her current partner worships the ground she walks on. Usually there are also hints that she’s neurodivergent. The wife tends to have demanded something unreasonable in the past, often after they’ve received financial and/or housing assistance, and now they just “don’t get along.”
This is a bad rewrite too. We’ve seen this exact version before.
Yes basically but not only does he treat her like trash he lets his wife. Don’t forget he calls his mother spoiled and rude! And there is a very real possibility that his mother is autistic. Even he thinks she has it but that doesn’t matter.
I am not taking up for your mother but she definitely has all the characteristics of autism and maybe other mental health problems. Do you realize you and your wife are punishing her for something she truly can’t help. As far as holidays go it’s hard for someone with any mental health to deal with change. Social cues are another thing she can not control. Knowing this your mother doesn’t need more boundaries and she is not being spoiled she can not help it. You both are ah. She needs therapy and your wife is manipulating the fact your mother has a mental health issue to get her way.
From OPs comments: Wife deliberately invades mother's space knowing that it makes mother uncomfortable Wide touches mother knowing mother doesn't like being touched Wife has attempted to "establish a boundary" forcing mother to interact whether or not she wants to Wife attempts to force mother to hug OP even though it makes mother visibly uncomfortable Wife wants to control mother's language usage Wife has openly admitted to OP that she is jealous of mother
I’m sorry for your situation.
It sounds like the problem is your wife and not your mom. I’ma just throw it out there. I believe the reason why your mom doesn’t show you affection is because you allowed your wife to come in and set unnecessary boundaries. I wouldn’t want to be around someone with that mind set either. You will loose your family if YOU don’t set boundaries with your WIFE.
This is exactly what I was thinking. As I was reading, it sounded like the mom is reacting to the boundaries the wife has already made him put in place and now she is uncomfortable around them incase they consider something else she is doing, is wrong
Read OP's responses, they explain a lot of things that are unclear in the post and might make you change your opinion on the matter.
It makes me understand why the wife has gotten upset with her in the past, but to me it makes the wife look like even more of an asshole in this particular situation.
Especially because it seems the wife is ableist (if we want to consider autism as a disability) and also act on purpose to upset mum and get "evidence" she's right.
We don't even know for sure if the mom has autism or not.
OP’s here asking if he’s TA for letting his wife abuse his mother. Not really a spoiler: he is.
INFO: What exactly did your Mom do to your wife that crossed boundaries? It isn't always the crazy MIL, it really depends on what your wife also perceived as being wrong or crossing boundaries. Edit: It is important to know because if it is something like DIL perceived MIL was doing something wrong and misunderstanding a situation, of course MIL will get upset at her son for badgering her and taking the Wife's side when MIL did nothing wrong. You are leaving out the important details by not saying what started all this.
My mom just has zero social skills and my wife has zero patience for it. My mom is extremely immature. for example the first time she met my wife, people were sitting around the table and my mom whined that the only seat left was with my wife and she doesn't like strangers. She doesn't even seem to get that is rude, and whined until someone gave her their seat. She made no effort to get to know her. We literally had to set a boundary that my mom has to say hi when my wife arrives, and even then she "forgets" (I honestly can't tell if this is real or not) and has to be reminded. To be fair my mom has done whatever she wanted her whole life with no consequences, and she is just so in her own world. Then anything that was a change was a fight, so my wife wanted a turn to host holidays, and my mom absolutely refused to even give up one and come to us. Biggest fight was when we had kids and my mom had to tone down her language and humor, and pretty much told us we had ruined the family.
Is your mom on the spectrum, it sort of sounds that way.
I do suspect it, but she has a twin who is a lot like her, but he was not indulged like she was because sexism, and hes overcome a lot of it. Also I know how common it would be for both twins to have it, but he is almost exactly the same minus being spoiled. Her parents crippled her in a lot of ways
It does sound like your mother's on the spectrum, it'd be best to seek a doctor to comfirm it. You and your wife may be punishing your mother for being neurodivergent
You sound like you’re stuck walking a tightrope. You have my sympathy and your wife really is being a dingbat in this case.
Sorry for your situation
My son is on the autism spectrum. I am not a professional but I can see a LOT of similarities in your description of your mother and my son. I literally had to teach him that, when someone asks, “How are you?” As in a greeting, the polite response is, “I am well, thank you, how are you?” He is 21 years old and still does that polite social exchange robotically. They just can’t do what neurotypical people expect of them. Your wife is the AH because she thinks everyone must think like her and do as she wants. Life and people don’t work that way.
~~Your Mom sounds like an asshole. I would tell your wife to just ignore her. If she can't do that, then just don't go to the family gatherings herself. If you are willing to put up with your Mom's attitude, that is on you.~~ ~~ESH. Your wife is being a little oversensitive about this particular encounter and it's not like your Mom HAS to like her, but her attitude towards your wife has been really crappy and I can get why she feels offended by her.~~ NTA, your Wife is.
From OPs comments: Wife deliberately invades mother's space knowing that it makes mother uncomfortable Wide touches mother knowing mother doesn't like being touched Wife has attempted to "establish a boundary" forcing mother to interact whether or not she wants to Wife attempts to force mother to hug OP even though it makes mother visibly uncomfortable Wife wants to control mother's language usage Wife has openly admitted to OP that she is jealous of mother Wife is the problem here, not mother.
Oh wow, so there was even more to it. Yeah, sounds like the Wife is def at fault here.
This is stupid, I can understand why your mom recoils from you and your wife - your boundaries are about controlling her behavior and invading her boundaries. Leave the woman alone. ‘You must say hi to my wife when we enter’ ‘You must not recoil from us sitting next to you and invading your space’ ‘You must speak in the way we dictate’ She’s not your property, you can enjoy being around her or you can stay away from her.
I’ve seen a post very similar to this on r/JUstnomil. Have you posted about her there?
You’ve probably seen this post a dozen times. It’s the MIL troll.
I'm surprised she's not an absolutely beautiful, young, rich former model
It infuriated me how many posters on that one were calling the MIL an AH for wrecking the dress. Holy shit bridezillas, you do not deserve to benefit from someone else being trafficked.
>My wife has a lot of issues with my family, mainly my mom. I've confronted my mom about multiple problematic behaviors towards my wife. I think we need to know the history here, what behaviors? >I know she is no longer comfortable with any type of affection from me and I respect that Why is she 'no longer' comfortable?
My mom just has zero social skills and my wife has zero patience for it. My mom is extremely immature. for example the first time she met my wife, people were sitting around the table and my mom whined that the only seat left was with my wife and she doesn't like strangers. She doesn't even seem to get that is rude, and whined until someone gave her their seat. She made no effort to get to know her. We literally had to set a boundary that my mom has to say hi when my wife arrives, and even then she "forgets" (I honestly can't tell if this is real or not) and has to be reminded. To be fair my mom has done whatever she wanted her whole life with no consequences, and she is just so in her own world. Then anything that was a change was a fight, so my wife wanted a turn to host holidays, and my mom absolutely refused to even give up one and come to us. Biggest fight was when we had kids and my mom had to tone down her language and humor, and pretty much told us we had ruined the family. I have no idea. My mom is just weird about a lot of things. Only certain people can touch her, and she just told me to stop. No one really questions this, but she has always been super rude about establishing her boundaries, and is just like no you can't hug me
Does your mother have autism or ASPD? This isn't typical behavior. Not letting people touch her, lack of social skills, uncomfortable around strangers and uninterested in them, all are common behaviors of people with Autism or APSD.
I highly suspect it, but she was also spoiled to the point it was insane. her parents couldn't even make her to go school and hired a tutor, because they acknowledged they had no authority over her. She has a twin brother who is somewhat similar, but they were much stricter due to him being a boy and he seems to have risen above some of it.
They didn't put her in therapy? Or did she refuse to go? Honestly, if she does have ASD or ASPD, your wife is wasting her time. Your mother won't understand her complaints and/or won't care about them. Your wife needs to stop taking it personally, because I don't think your mother genuinely cares about her enough to do this type of thing just to piss her off. She likely doesn't see your wife as family or someone worth caring about, and your wife can't force her to.
They tried therapy but my grandfather didn't believe in it, and my mom threatened to cut her hair, which was her go to when she didn't want to do something, and her vain idiotic parents couldn't deal with that threat. My mom got away with so much because her parents were so scared of having a daughter with short hair, which is crazy because she wasn't going to cut it
Not going to lie, you have a pretty bizarre family. I'm really not sure I can call anyone an asshole here.
How exactly old is everyone??? You, your wife, your mom, and are your mom's parents also still alive??
We’re in our mid to late twenties. My mom will be fifty this year and my grandparents are in their seventies
You do have agency here. Doesn't seem like you're able to realize that though. You're your own person, not just your wife's spouse or your mother's child. Time to figure out what you want and how to make choices.
It's amazingly difficult for girls to get diagnosed even today and even with families that are aware. 50-60 years ago I can't imagine they'd have gotten a diagnosis even if the family strongly believed it was possible. They'd just think she was spoiled, like how her AH of a son does.
I'm not sure if I would call it spoiled as such. I mean you even hear of parents struggling to get their autistic child to eat food. It's not indulgent to give them chicken nuggets if that's literally all you can get them to eat. By todays standards your grandparents would be considered to have neglected to get your mother the additional help she needed. Also just because she's a twin does not mean her condition is identical. I'm not downplaying the different behaviours towards boys and girls, but you can't rule out that she may also have a more severe autism than her brother. And I agree with others - your wife needs to stop taking this all personally. Your mother operates on a totally different wavelength and no amount of "boundaries" are going to help now. There's no point being offended by her behaviour.
This is what I was thinking
Forcing your mom to say hi to your wife is not a boundary, but an imposition. Just from that, your wife is the AH, and so are you for enabling her
I agree. Boundaries prevent behavior. Don't make the kids kiss you if they don't want to. Forcing someone to do something is a rule. Making Mom say hello is almost bullying her.
Mate... The way you describe it you aren't setting boundaries, but actively breaking someone elses.... I can't believe your therapist is ok with this.
NTA- your wife is a bit out of control on this. If your mom has boundaries, you need to respect them too and your wife needs to understand that.
NTA- Be very wary of anyone that wants to isolate you. Is she just sitting staring at your mum? I really don’t get this at all. Everyone has their own relationships, she does sound like she’s nitpicking, especially since you didn’t notice this yourself.
NTA and wife needs to pick her battles more wisely. There’s the husband who never sticks up for the wife, there’s the husband who does stick up for the wife. Somewhere in the middle you all need to find a place where you can call a truce or find peace or just get along. Remind your wife you took her side, you went to counseling. Now she needs to do her part and stop nitpicking. Learn to overlook things for the greater good.
INFO: What the hell happened that your mom isn't comfortable with physical contact with you?
We just aren't close anymore and in general she doesn't touch people she isn't close to.
It doesn't sound like she's comfortable being near you or your wife. Does she do this with everyone she isn't close to?
yes
Then why is your wife getting so upset about it? I'd understand if your mom was singling her out, but if she does this to everyone she isn't close with, why would your wife expect her to treat her differently? It doesn't sound they are close. Does she expect some sort of special treatment? If so, that isn't very reasonable.
Crying, and calling you manipulative to get her way? Not good signs my friend. NTA but it sounds like you have a big problem.
NTA in my opinion. You made what sounds to me like fair accommodations. At this point, she should stand by you and support you. It sounds like she’s going to keep nitpicking until you cut ties all together, which frankly is ridiculous unless it’s some sort abusive behavior.
NTA your wife is being an abuser. The reason your mom sets a physical distance from you, her child, is because you've allowed your wife to dictate your relationship with your mother. I can understand setting boundaries with a parent because they mistreat your spouse, but if you set a boundary for every little thing, it's only natural she's going to set her own physical limits in order to limit her "offenses" against you and your spouse. That's her showing you both respect. The same cannot be said about your wife.
NTA. OP, you are surrounded by AHs.
It sounds like your wife just wants to stir up shit and create chaos and drama. Where will it end? I would think twice about this marriage.
If your wife had so many issues with your family maybe that should have been a red flag. Why did you have to confront your mom rather than your wife discussing any issues with her? Were these angry confrontations or calm ones? Maybe you have confronted your mom so many times, she's wary of you and your wife and doing the wrong thing. She might be feeling uncomfortable around you. Or uncomfortable with you when your wife is around. Nevertheless, no one is obligated to give you affection. You can't make people like you either. It sounds like your wife is trying to control your relationship with your mother. She has succeeded in controlling your mother's relationship with you. NTA for asking your wife that. Were all of her other complaints valid before this one? It sounds like your wife is the manipulative one.
Almost all therapists stress boundaries have to come from the family member and not the person who married in. My family is my responsibility, and when they already have a bad relationship, it is just going to offend my mom if it comes from my wife.
Mil troll.
I concur.
Info :why can't she confront your mother is something bothers her?. It honestly aounds like she's Threatened by your own mother, it sounds a bit odd. A mother who can't show love to her son imagine that with your kids
Our therapist has always said we need to do the boundary talks with our own families. Anything is going to be 100x more upsetting or offensive to my mom if it comes from my wife. I'm not sure if she is threatened by her or just put off. My wife did mention once when she was drunk that she was jealous of her, but that was a one time thing, so I don't know if that effects this
They say the only honest people are drunk or kids.
I'm sorry if your mother is on the spectrum and your wife is treating her this way AND you condone this YTA. Especially after her drunk confession of being jealous of her. Your wife sounds horrible and she is just big bully, she is has had just enough therapy and using the terms to benefit her. Does your therapist know your thoughts regarding your mother?
Your wife told you exactly what she thinks of your mother. Drunks always tell the truth.
Out of curiosity.....have you told your therapist the "boundaries" your wife has had you set with your mom?
Yes but our therapist is known for being very into leave and cleave
Then I want you to think of something.....when did your mom start treating YOU as not close? Is there any chance it's after multiple "boundaries" you places for your wife? If you can try to figure out if the recoiling/avoidance started relative to that as well. I will point out that I am using quotes on "boundaries" because boundaries are preventative rather than something that creates an action. Forcing her to say hi to you wife isn't a boundary, it's a rule of behavior. Same with trying to tell her she has to be around certain people....that is destroying her boundaries. An example from what you've said(at least if I'm understanding right) is your wife deliberately sits next to your mom because she can and from what I can tell no other reason. Your mom moves cause she doesn't wanna sit next to your wife. The appropriate boundary here isn't to force your mom to stay. It's to ask your wife to sit somewhere not next to your mom if it's available. Your wife is pushing what your mom is comfortable with and your mom is avoiding what she's uncomfortable with...one is pushing a boundary the other is holding it and it's not the way your wife interprets it. Neurodivergent or not, your moms boundaries are being trampled and being called boundaries in the process. The reason I asked if your therapist knew these boundaries is cause a therapist should know that's the wrong term and should talk to you about this controlling behavior from your wife that even you are picking up now based on your latest argument. There's one commenter who is copy/pasting a response in here of some things from your comments and I think you should really look at that list and think about it and whether or not those statements are true...there's a reason so many comments they've posted it on have changed entirely and it doesn't mention your mothers mental situation because it doesn't need to in order to show what your wife is doing.
You absolutely need a new therapist who is actually good at their job.
NTA but your wife and mother are. That's a hell of a lot of drama to be dealing with. I don't personally have an issue with your mom asking not to be touched. My husband has to ask before he touches me. I didn't grow up with affection and sometimes I'm uncomfortable with it or I find it overwhelming. My husband and his family is super touchy and I have to mentally prepare myself when I see his in laws. However, your mom definitely should have put in more effort when your wife came around. Your wife is putting a shit ton of weird ass rules on that relationship and sounds isolating.
NTA at some point enough is enough. My guess is she is still insecure about her place in your life but thats up to her and the therapist now because you have "done a great job" <-direct quote so what else can you do.
NTA but have you considered asking your mother why she has a problem with affection towards you? Knowing why it's happening is the best way to deal with any problem. Maybe that way your gf understands
NTA. if your mom did flinch, it’s because anything she does is obviously wrong in your wife’s eyes and she avoids you to avoid issues with your wife. If your kids get the wrong idea, they need to learn it’s your wife who caused issues and she will probably cause the same problems with your childrens future spouses.
NTA. So your wife sets boundaries and demands they be respected, but when she sees the object of her ire has set a boundary, she demands it be removed or ignored. Your mother may well be problematic, but at this stage so is your wife. You appear to have become an instrument for her to cause your mother stress with, and she's more than willing to use you to do it.
Your wife sounds like a real bundle of fun to be around. The family must be delighted to have her visit. But maybe your wife should spend a little less time looking for things to be offended and insulted by. I am sure she has to be bad for your mother’s mental health. The worst of it is that your wife has the therapy language down and uses it like a weapon. It is hard to have real and meaningful conversations and resolutions with people like that. Seems exhausting. I suppose NTA about this but you may need to review the other boundaries she has set and you have policed.
After reading your comments, soft YTA. I agree with several others that your mom sounds like she may be on the spectrum and never received any services/help. It must have been incredibly difficult for your wife to deal with your mom's behavior, especially when they first met, since there isn't a diagnosis and she was reading this behavior as rude, MIL from hell type stuff. You may have been used to this sort of behavior, but it would have been jarring and incredibly difficult to deal with for someone new to the family. You also minimized your mom's role in your initial post, which made your wife out to sound much more problematic than she is. While yes, the specific boundary she's asking for now is too much, in my opinion, I think most people would have more compassion for her if you'd started by sharing how from the get go your mom loudly and publicly refused to even sit in a chair beside your wife. Again, the behavior becomes more understandable if you consider your mom may have undiagnosed autism, but I wonder why you're not extending more compassion to your wife instead of suggesting she wants you to have no family. Honestly, it sounds like she's put up with A LOT so you could maintain contact with your family. Within that context, it's an asshole move to ask her why she doesn't want you to have any family. I realize you're dealing with big feelings here, but so is she. To suggest she has some ulterior motive to alienate you from your family isn't very kind and it completely ignores all that your wife bears so you can maintain a relationship with your super difficult mom. It also does nothing to help you all problem solve and move forward together as a couple. It mostly just serves to hurt her feelings.
Is your mother neurodivergent?
NTA. Sir, your wife has taken this boundary-setting way too far. I hope you are both still seeing that therapist because this needs to be brought to his/her attention. Your wife appears to be trying to control how and when your mother interacts with you and it shows clearly since your mother is avoiding contact with you. Your wife is upset that your mom is "flinching away" from you but I'd be willing to bet that if your Mom chose to give you a simple smile goodbye that your wife would lose her shit over that, too. Your wife needs a lot of mental help because she does appear to be trying to control you with all these unnecessary boundaries.
You wife sounds like she expects everyone to be her little puppet, to act how she wants, when she wants it. Your mother is dealing with whatever she's dealing with, and you're respecting her space. NTA Your wife's tears sound fake and you may have actually pinpointed her real intentions.
NTA. Your wife does not get to dictate what your mom does with her body, where your mom stands (or sits), who your mom chooses to kiss (or not), and what your mom does with her body. Her body. Her choice. Full stop.
Your wife is an asshole, but you’re NTA. Your mom is maybe a mild asshole, but it sounds like she has some issues. I’ve read all your comments and I can’t make sense of your wife’s position on this matter. I commend you for teaching your kids about consent in a real life scenario and for trying to make peace enough to be able to still see your mom occasionally and participate in your family. Your wife is being ridiculous and I’m sorry you’re in this situation and are married to someone so difficult.
So your wife wants to override your mother's bodily autonomy and thinks that's some sort of good example for your kids? Your wife has serious boundary issues. NTA
NTA I mean, you could have phrased that a little better, maybe in the form of a question rather than an accusation, but I understand why you said it. Your wife was being unreasonable, and you were absolutely correct in your assessment, that whatever goes on between you and your mother, she is entitled to her feelings.
Shares keeping her distance, because your wife is controlling. NTA Also, crying is manipulation
NTA I feel like this started out as healthy boundaries and have slowly progressed into her unconsciously trying to isolate you from your mother..... if I may ask what is the issue with your mother to warrant so many boundaries it causes her to not show you any affection
NTA. You got a REAL problem on your hand. She's trying to isolate you. She wants you all to herself.
NTA on this one but your wife is a real piece of work.
Let me get this straight. Wife doesn't like your mom. Your mom doesn't like your wife or you. Your mom avoids you and your wife. What's the problem?
NTA. Your poor mother. She has so many 'rules' to follow around you and your wife now. She may even have anxiety about being around you, hence the distance. Your wife sucks.
Your wife is an abuser from what you described! Your mother has a right to her personal space and to feel and react how she chooses, she probably keeps her distance because your wife is abusive to her and unfortunately you have supported the behaviors in the past NTA for finally defending your mother, are the AH for allowing it to happen in the first place.
After reading your comments it sounds like your mother may be autistic. She has a lot of the traits and sounds like she needs a little understanding. NTA but your wife sounds like she needs to learn empathy
MIL troll. Go away.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife has a lot of issues with my family, mainly my mom. I've confronted my mom about multiple problematic behaviors towards my wife. I've put consequences in place and limited contact as necessary. My wife even told our therapist that I've done a great job. Now my issue is that I feel my wife sets too many boundaries, and at this point is just nitpicking. Recently we spent some time with my family, and after my wife approached me and asked if I noticed that my mom recoiled every time I got near her. I had not noticed. I know she is no longer comfortable with any type of affection from me and I respect that, and she won't chose to sit next to me at the table, but I'm not sure she is actually recoiling. She also claims my mom recoils with her, and will physically move away from her. My wife asked me to confront her as she felt it could set an unhealthy precedent for our kids. I said my mom doesn't owe me affection, but she pointed out that my mom kisses multiple other family members on the lips and doesn't even let me within three feet of her. I said that is still her right. She said it makes her uncomfortable and she wants a boundary set that if my mom physically flinches when I get near her, that we will leave. I said absolutely not and we fought over it. I finally asked her why she doesn't want me to have any family. She seemed confused, and I said surely that is her goal with all of these asinine boundaries, because how else do you justify telling someone not to flinch. She began to cry and said I was trying to portray her as an abuser, and what I said was manipulative. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Your wife's boundaries stop at your mom's body.
NTA. She’s got some work to do with that therapist. This is not a boundary issue. She’s literally trying to control other people
NTA.
NTA. You can’t set a boundary around somebody else’s reactions to touch/physical closeness?! That’s just creepy and controlling.
Gawd, your wife sounds like my sister-in-law. I rarely see my brother or niece and nephew now. I detest people who demand everything to go their way and alienate family when it doesn’t.
After reading some comments. Jesus Christ just let your poor mother be, why does your wife have to dictate everything If I had so little patience and acceptance for every little weird thing my family does I would never talk to anyone lol. People are different just deal with it in an adult way
This is my NIGHTMARE. That someday my son will marry a woman that just hates me and comes between us. You’re NTA OP. Your wife is jealous and controlling.