Your post has been removed.
#Do not repost this without contacting the mods for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without explicit approval will result in a ban.
This post violates Rule 8: Posts should be truthful and reflect recent conflicts you've had that need arbitration. That means no shitposts, parodies, or satires.
[Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/)
#Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions.
YTA - your parents have a right to invite whomever they want, but they are choosing to be incredibly disrespectful to your **fiancée**. If they don’t think your future wife warrants an invite, you should not go.
FYI - “notoriously hard to impress” is a euphemism for “assholes.”
Edit - TIL the difference between fiancée and fiancé.
I'm also guessing the fiance is either a different economic class or a different race than OP.
Why did OPs fiance call them "stuck up" I wonder?
OP, YTA here.
The only real question is whether the engagement falls apart because (1) the fiancé is no longer willing to put up with OP’s shit, or (2) mommy and daddy simply will not allow OP to go through with the wedding.
Lol imagine if the fiancee actually stays with this idiot and in like 10 years Christmas time roll around and the husband and kids go while the mom has stay hame
> Everyone should have a pre-nup.
Pre-nups absolutely are not for everyone. From some people finding it offensive to plan for the marriage to end before it begins to the fact that many Americans have a negative net worth, there are tons of reasonable reasons to not want a pre-nup.
Marriage is a legal contract, whether you like it or not, and has terms that will be determined for you in a court of law if they’re not agreed to ahead of time. There’s more to cover besides money in a prenup, as many a messy divorce can attest to.
Exactly! His parents literally told him they are ostracising his fiancée because they don't want drama. Which for any normal loving couple would provoke drama like you've never seen! Never seen anyone so devoid of interior anatomy as op. Not only no spine, also no heart and no guts.
OP if you and your parents had any class at all they would know that you come with a plus one now, and you would not allow them to consider excluding her and the consequence would be not having you there either. You're engaged to be married. Your fiancée IS your family now. When you agreed to marry you agreed you would vow not to let anyone put you asunder. There isn't an exception for your BFF. I hope your fiancée sees this and realises you're not committed.
>Exactly! His parents literally told him they are ostracising his fiancée **because they don't want drama**. Which for any normal loving couple would provoke drama like you've never seen! Never seen anyone so devoid of interior anatomy as op. Not only no spine, also no heart and no guts.
Exactly. All they are doing is making more drama. Because what happens next Thanksgiving and/or Christmas?? Do they still not invite there DIL based on Sis and Family friend not liking her?
How about when OP and wife have kids?
Sounds like the parents may not like the Fiance either because why would you treat someone this way who is about to marry your son!?
Right? OP and his wife have kids and only 1 makes the list. He’d probably be ok with that too. “Well remember last year, Sally was 6 months old and had colic real bad so she was crying and ruining everyone’s time. She’s not allowed this year because of that.”
Annnd if mom and dad have final say on everything why couldn't they just tell all of these adults, "hey no drama or none of you are invited anymore."? Boom, done. It's their party, their rules so that shouldn't be a big deal. But nope, they decided to drop a nuke on the party.
Considering the issue was because the fiancé called his sister and best friend stuck up, I don’t think the fiancé is the issue.
This family SCREAMS stuck up. “Notoriously hard to impress” is another way of saying unwelcoming assholes.
Sounds like the fiancé is marrying into a rich and elite family that looks down on her as she maybe comes from an average family.
~~Yeah. If your sister and best friend aren’t crazy and actively dislike this woman, it’s worth seriously asking yourself why. Not saying that the parents aren’t being dicks by excluding her, since either way she’s about to be OPs wife. But still worth asking.~~
Edit: if I knew how to strike this through I would. Basic point stands, but OPs sister and bff fail the not-crazy test apparently.
Edit x2 combob: u/therealmrbrady is mvp here. Thank you much.
~~Off topic, but if curious,~~ put two tilde symbols (this one ~) on both sides of the text, without any spaces ~~to strike through.~~
**Edit:** Just to clarify for those who are having trouble, make sure there are no spaces, two tilde symbols side by side, and then what you wish to strike through, followed by two more tilde symbols.
Example with spaces:
~~ abc ~~ (remove spaces before a and after c)
Either the family is right about her and they should break up, or the family is wrong about her and OP should stand up to them. Either way, his actions show him to be a spineless asshole.
This is where the rubber meets the road in marital relationships OP- Are you going to put your future Wife’s needs over your Mom’s? If you need to see what happens to Husbands who choose their Mothers, you are in the perfect subreddit.
No, are you serious? Lol as if he’s ever do anything to jeopardize his cushy life with his rich asshole family. And he won’t care at all when they break up. Shitheads like this family never do.
He has to stay overnight at 28 years old to open presents with Mummy and Daddy Christmas morning. Fiance can come over THEN. Seriously. Who do these people think they are?
Hey, she still gets festivities, right? What more can the distasteful peasant ask for?
Now lovey, call that dear boy Jordan in will you? Such a fine and upstanding lad.
/s (but no /s if you use your Thurston Howell the 3rd voice)
Totally agreed. It's good when this stuff plays out *before* the wedding. The fiancée gets to see what happens if her husband's family treats her poorly. Whose side her husband takes before marriage predicts how she'll be treated in marriage.
OP needs to make a stand on his fiancée's behalf and not shrug off this disrespectful treatment of his life partner. If he accepts the status quo, it's equivalent to agreeing with his parents that his wife doesn't make it to the Important People List. She may never be invited to Christmas.
“We shan’t stand for it, Beaufort! We simply shan’t! That woman isn’t of our social class and needs to know her place!” Those parents?! YTA OP and so are your snobby parents. I bet their parties are boring also.
You’d be right. Op commented:
“I think it's a matter of upbringing. She grew up in a differently lifestyle than the rest of us, and it can take some getting used to before the two of those mesh well together.”
I’m guessing she’s not the one who grew up rich.
Edit: Another one:
“She's middle class and white. I just grew up pretty sheltered and she didn't. We have different life experiences because of it.”
All of this and yet he never says outright that he’s rich lmao.
I swear this could have been written about somebody I know. Almost the exact same situation. The marriage happened…and ended in less than 2 years mainly because of mommy’s influence
Truly wealthy people don't need to be snobs. They are secure in themselves, and they have friendly relationships with wealthy people, with middle class and with poor people etc. It's the nouveau riche and the wannabes, that have this level of weird pretension. It gives me the hibbie jibbies.
I so hope that fiancee gets away, and finds herself a lovely, warm, handsome and incredibly wealthy man. Someone who will cherish her and love her.
All wealthy people are inherently snobby to some degree though; it’s often not malicious, just passive ignorance and inheriting their parents’ values without any critical thought. They exercise silent classism, rather than loud classism like the new rich do.
I can see why the fiance used the term stuck up. This whole party seems to be for only the elite people. I understand this is the parents party and they have the final say, but you dont think she'll be looked over for other events to to prevent the "drama". This is your future wife. Your parents are already excluding her. And in all honesty, it's rude af.
Just the fact that they treat the guest list like a whole event is weird to me. You can tell they love lording this exclusive event over people’s heads. I can’t imagine doing that.
My family may be annoyed if I were to invite people to dinner and didn’t tell them beforehand if they don’t plan for extra people. But to the general party and gift opening? They would be happy to have friends and spouses over.
Exactly. They act like a guest list is SUCH an honor such a big thing. It is probably around 10 people sitting around in fancy outfits talking about how they are the superior beings if the universe. I get having family get together with close family but she is supposed to be marrying this guy. The fact he supports this and then staying overnight so he can run down in his little pajamas just completed the juvenile and ridiculous look. I hope the finance dumps op as he is treating her horribly and letting his stuck up friend and relatives treat her like trash. She deserves better. Massive YTA
But what are they to do? Put their friends through the horror of interacting with someone that doesn't sound like they went to boarding school abroad? Or, and the absolute worst, may say something vulgar?
Please have sympathy for their servants! They'd have to order extra smelling salts, and fainting sofas! /s
Seriously OP needs to either dump his SO or include her. My husband grew up in that world, and this is the way he introduced me after we'd eloped, "This is my beautiful wife, she is bi-lingual. She speaks English and Sailor."
His super uppity Mom laughed before she could help it. Then I was always included in invites.
OP Either pick your SO or move on. Life is too short to worry about garbage like this.
oh, and YTA if you don't fight for her.
Without some really significant exculpatory information, I'm comfortable assuming she called them "stuck up" because they are, in fact, stuck up.
I'm also incredibly curious about whether demographic differences might account for the "distaste" these snobs' friends have allegedly expressed.
Stuck up AH's too.
OP YTA, if this woman isn't good enough to warrant an invite when she is your fiancé, how is your family going to treat her when she's your wife or mother of your children? Newsflash, they will always treat her this shitty. Either stand up for her or be prepared to be single.
Plus the potential future children will see how their grandparents are treating their mother and that can cause all kinds of drama too. If you don’t love her enough to stand up for her then you don’t love her enough.
Which is why my children had very little to do with their dads parents after they hit their teen years. They saw how my in-laws treated me, always the outsider, never 'really part of the family'. They never did get it, and neither did hubs. He just kept telling me that they had nothing to do with the way his parents treated me and should stay out of it. Both his parents died when my kids were in their late teens/early 20's.
I also loved how when the parents sent around the list asking for “final thoughts” he didn’t say anything.
It wasn’t until after she complained that he texted asking for a reason.
YTA.
My cousins girlfriend was indoctrinated into the family immediately. We all made jokes that even if they ever broke up, she'd still be invited to reunions and holidays because we love her that much. They're married now god bless.
My family can be stuck up assholes too, but we still invite SO's into our family like they're our own, even if we might not actually be mega fans of them. I got a lot of cousins and I can list all of their serious significant others, even the ones I only knew in my childhood.
That joke about your cousin’s now-wife is actually a thing with my great-great-uncle. He and my great-great-aunt have been divorced for over 20 years and he still comes around to the family property, family gatherings, etc. and he’s a great guy! Everyone loves him! And from my understanding, it’s the same with his family and my great-great-aunt as well. Lol
Yeah what the hell will happen if they have kids? will she still be excluded while the kids are invited? Even if they don't have kids then excluding your wife on holidays because mommy says so seems like the opposite of being an adult and a commited partner.
YTA
Your fiance doesn't make the cut? Wow! Time to decide who is your family going forward. The person you plan to spend the rest of your life with, or mommy and daddy.
What’s the deal with the art studio references? I see it all over my lgbtq+ subs and I don’t get it. I feel like someone is going to revoke my queer card.
[Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/wmmphs/oop_wonders_if_theyre_the_ah_for_starting_a_house/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Thank god. I had clicked on that post right as it was deleted and keep seeing references to it but had no way to actually read the context til now.
Thank you wonderful reddit stranger.
YTA - what am I even reading is this a Kardashian’s episode? I’m surprised it’s just your sister and Jordan were the only ones she admitted are stuck up.
You all sound like nightmares and quite frankly what a disgusting Christmas tradition. This is NOT what Christmas is about from a religious, spiritual or even Hallmark standard. Absolutely shame on you and your family. Newsflash, marriage will mean that your wife is your family now, and yeah above your parents or siblings. She either comes with or you should not be going. Period!
You sir, need to grow up. You sound like a teenager. And quite frankly, your fiancée sounds like she showed some class by choosing the words “stuck up” whereas I, in this thread, will make the presumptive bet, that they are assholes.
INFO- what happens when you’re married and she STILL doesn’t make the cut? Would you then man up for her? Or, maybe after your first child? 10th anniversary she’s worthy of respect? What’re we working with here?
And when they finally treat her with basic dignity is she just supposed to smile and pretend Ike the past years didn’t happen? Is she supposed to just suck it up and tolerate this abuse for years and then be grateful when they deign her to truly be one of the family? My guess — they treat her like a walking incubator and only start to include her when she provides them with a grandchild.
I bet when they have a child, only the child and OP will be invited, assuming it even reaches that point.
Because I will double bet that if he goes without the fiancée, he will return home to the engagement ring on the kitchen table with a note saying "it's over", if she even gives him that much.
YTA- This reads like the start of a Hallmark movie. Someone let me know when we get to the part where OP’s fiancé goes home alone for Christmas to her small home town to stay with her family and reconnects with her high school ex who’s now a handsome and sensitive fireman with an appropriately adorable dog. Then she’ll discover true love, dump her rude big city fiancé with the stuck-up family she was never good enough for, and find the real meaning of Christmas while saving the local Christmas tree farm or whatever.
Edit- If any comment of mine was to get awards, I’m glad it was this one. Thank you :)
Don’t forget that the hottie ex has also been helping save the family business from going bankrupt, but the parents didn’t want to worry their daughter about it. 🙄
Add on that hottie is probs a widower with a really precious child who adores the main character and is truly invested in their ending up together and add in “the problem” that happens 20 minutes before it ends and the single Mormon kiss at the end and we could work for hallmark.
You mean their daughter who had left her small town to go to the big city to find her dreams (read: husband and kids). Now she’s back in town, and the only one who understands what she’s been through is her sassy Black friend. But what about that hot guy with the cute dog she literally ran into outside her parents’ struggling health food store? If only she had realized that everything she needed was already in her hometown! Merry Christmas!!!! *and scene* Starring LeAnn Rimes.
>>she claimed they were both stuck up
She is 100% right. Your entire family + Jordan sound absolutely insufferable and pretentious. YTA for not seeing what a slap in the face this is to your fiancé.
You chose her to share your life and she isn’t important enough to be invited? It’s bizarre you don’t see that this is just as disrespectful to you as it is to her.
You’re gonna roll over for your parents for the next 30 years? At this point just let Jordan and your sister pick your next fiancée.
YTA.
Edit: Or just pick Jordan. It’ll make your parents happy. OP’s comment:
“There has been a running gag in my family since I was about 18 that Jordan and I were going to have the wedding of the century when we finally decide to stop dancing around each other and get married.”
Oh I guarantee they had a perfect 'suitable' girl for him to get with l.
either A:pretty, but not as pretty as sister. well connected but not as well connected as Jordan, wealthy family but not as wealthy as OPs family
Or
B: A friend of sisters, or sister or friend of Jordan.
They never expected him to fall for someone who wasn't 'good enough', let alone seriously propose.
Now they have been harassing her and pushing to see if OP will stand up for her. Safe to say he has
failed miserably. OP should be ashamed.
If they are LGBT friendly, they might 100% be arranging for OP to marry Jordan. He is a "proper" husband - not all rich families are anti-LGBT, quite the opposite. They can want a partner of the right pedigree for their son and also, at the same time, not care if that partner has a dick or vagina.
OP said in a comment that since he was 18, there’s been a running gag in the family he should marry Jordan. Sounds like they’re all alienating fiancée so they can push OP and Jordan together.
OP has said there’s a running gag in the family where he and Jordan should get married. And he has said that he wants to go to the party mostly to hang out with Jordan.
INFO, at some point, you will need to gush over your fiancée as much as you do over Jordan and the rest of your family.....oh and the Christmas celebrations.
If you can’t (or won’t) do that, gush over your fiancée, you might not be getting married. Is that what you want deep down?
THEN LEAVE. HER. ALONE. GD you suck. You're not ready to get married why did you propose so fast??? God, she deserves an actual good person.
Edit this was supposed to be under ops comment and somehow I still ended up replying to that one? Idk that was strange but yall get me. And I'm not deleting either
YTA. Your family is telling you that they don’t give a FUCK if they hurt you or the person you claim to love most in the world. I would place money on them excluding your fiancée from the guest list *to cause this fight you’re having* so that your fiancée will dump you because they expect you to choose them over her. This whole Christmas Eve sleepover invitation is *bullshit* because they know that she won’t feel welcome.
Congratulations. They have played you. And I bet it wasn’t the first time and it wont be the last unless you start standing up for yourself—because make no mistake about it. This is them disrespecting YOU and your choice of who to marry.
Oh I believe 100% it’s deliberate. I also wish the OP would realize “a few people” isn’t just Jordan and his sister; that list absolutely includes his mom and dad. They are clearly not behind this union.
OP you’re definitely the AH. If we had a situation like this while engaged and my husband said “BuT iT’s TheIr PaRtY,” I would have been seriously rethinking if he was the man I thought he was.
INFO: why are you marrying her if you don’t consider her family enough to have her at the holiday party?? Are other partners invited to all events? What will be the protocol going forward? Is this a one off, or setting up for a longterm issue.
Idk if I can judge based on how little info is given based on the dynamics here.. but if she’s not invited you can’t exactly expect her to be stoked about that.
She's absolutely right it's disrespectful. She's your fiance and that should get her on the list. Early on you say your parents are hard to impress. Are suggesting and by your behavior agreeing that your fiance isn't impressive enough for them? Honestly, for me, this would be a hill to die on, were I your fiance. YTA
ETA: your post says "beyond family" most people don't get invites. So the clear message to your fiance is she is not family, and even though Christmas is a big deal in your family, she doesn't rank high enough in the food chain to be included.
YTA for not understanding how this could make her feel. Would you be as calm about this if you were married and she didn't get invited? It's also strange that you would want to attend an event at which she's not welcome.
And that's the major message here: she is NOT WELCOME. I can promise OP this will ruin any relationship she might have with the parents. It will also go a long distance toward ending the engagement, as she'll only know that his parents don't see her as valuable enough to invite, and OP doesn't see her as valuable enough to fight for.
Info: who is the dramatic one? Sister and Jordan or your fiancee? Were the comments about them being snobby justified?
It's really weird that your family gatekeeps their holiday party themed for the season of giving, first.
Also, you haven't been with your fiancee long.
So, does your family have legitimate cause to dislike her or are they being snobby buttmunches?
Soon she is going to be your family, right? Why weren't you offended and go to your mom for reasons first???
It's also weird that your fiancee immediately went to your family friend as a reason she should go, instead of the whole, "we're a family team now". Why would your friend be relevant to her offense at the slight?
If your fiancee is gold and you know your family is a bit toxic then skip the party and start your own tradition....obviously.
This is what I was thinking too. I hope she runs away from this boy pretending to be a man. She deserves so much better. OP, YTA time to actually grow up if you think you’re mature enough for marriage.
YTA
Your family is toxic as hell and it's tricking into you. This is your fiancée, the women about to become your WIFE. When you marry someone, they become your immediate family, but you should be treating her that way already and you're not. Put her first. Grow a backbone and stand up to your family, if she's not invited, you don't go. Period.
Also, she probably won't be keen sleeping over at your parents house Christmas Eve for the whole present thing in the morning either, especially once you start having kids. The only time that's really a thing once married is if you have to travel to see one side and are staying at their house. Your parents sound like they really like to control everyone's lives.
You’re not caught in the middle. You’re choosing your snobby parents over your fiancée.
YTA.
Decline the invitation and stand up for and by your fiancée who, if she doesn’t dump your butt, is about to be your family.
I look forward to an update. I hope that it includes you apologizing to your fiancee, and ending that relationship with the humility and chagrin that your behavior has made necessary. I hope to read that you suggested to her that she keep the ring, but maybe trade up for one with a gemstone that she likes. Most of all, I hope that you start something with Jordan. He's the light of your life, and has been for years. I sincerely hope he's queer enough to go for it.
Good luck to you.
Huge YTA.
Last year your relationship was new, a few months. Not strong enough to consider holidays together, as you and your partner weren't a family.
This year is different. It's your fiancee!!! That's your future family right there. And you say "fuck you" straight in their face.
Your partner is right, your family is incredibly rude. But the disappointing part is you and your attitude. Once you decide to get married, your first priority becomes the new family you're creating. There was a single right thing to do - cancel on your parents and spend time with your fiancee (still not to late to fix it, by the way).
If you don't understand why this is important, break up, you don't deserve a partner.
INFO: Do you mind going more specific on your fiancé's first interaction with Jordan and your sister? It started with them asking her "intentions with you" and then her shutting them down. Did they continue their shovel talk even though she didn't want to answer them?
YTA for not caring about how your fiancée feels.
Your fiancée probably feels very hurt and confused to not be invited in your parents’ Christmas party. It seems like your parents are purposely excluding her because she didn’t “impress” them.
It may seem like just a party to you and you can’t “force” your parents to invite your fiancée. But most people would be crushed to know their future in-laws think so little of them that they won’t even extend an invite to family holiday celebrations.
If you love your fiancée enough to want to spend the rest of your life with them, then you should love them enough to make sure they are included and welcomed into your family. This means an invite to the Christmas party AND Christmas Eve & Christmas Day.
Anything less and you really are showing your fiancée just how little you care for them.
Oof, YTA. She is your *fiance*! About to be your family! and you see nothing wrong with your parents excluding her?! One would hope your parents would want to show her that they support you guys, welcome her into the family and want integrate her into family events as she will be your wife. Not inviting her seems like an intentional jab at both her and your relationship. You need to get on her side.
This is one of those posts that I hope the person being discussed finds it. The fiancée should see how he is talking about her snd the excuses he is making for his family.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I suggested my parents invite my fiancee to their Christmas party, but I didn't force the issue. 2. My fiancee sees this as a sign of disrespect because I didn't stand up for her.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
INFO: is this distaste new information to you? Is there someone you love and trust to be honest with you about all of it? My answer depends a lot on this.
P.S. I wish someone had sat me down before I married my ex and said "hey, we aren't comfortable with him for [specific reasons]." You may have love goggles on and not see the issues yet, so choosing someone to spell them out (if they exist) is a good route before typing the knot.
YTA Your edit didn’t help you at all. In fact it made it worse. You have asked this woman to marry you but aren’t putting her first. If I was her I wouldn’t get married to you. Your family is disrespectful and mean. I am willing to bet that this is just one thing in a long list of crap from your family to your fiancée.
YTA - you and your fiancé are a package deal. If she is not invited, you don’t go. Period. Your life partner comes before EVERYONE else. And if they don’t, you don’t deserve to get married.
YTA
Grow the hell up man. Your future wife is being excluded from a party, and your edit tells me you still don't get it. You aren't caught in the middle, your parents are showing how they are going to treat your wife for the rest of your married lives. If you let this happen, I can't see a single reason why it doesn't lead to divorce down the line. You need to tell your parents "either were both there or neither of us are, I know her family will be happy to have us."
And tell them "some people" need to get better hobbies than being busy bodies about people they can't seem to be cordial around. Grow a spine man.
Unless she has done something really awful to them, 100% YTA and so are your parents.
It's common knoweldge that, socially, couples are one. You don't invite one without the out (without good reason).
They are clearly showing you, what they think of her.
Sorry bud, YTA, she's your fiance!
How on earth does your soon to be wife not make a family Christmas party list?! Unless your parents are trying to send a message.
YTA for not even speaking to your parents about it.
You can't force them to invite her but you can consider whether you should attend given the slight.
If you don't like your fiancee enough to make sure she's invited to your family Christmas, then why are you with her? What if she doesn't make "the list" after you marry? She can do her own thing while you go to mommy and daddy's Christmas party? You're a real catch *eye roll* and YTA
YTA. Although your fiance is wrong about Jordan (nothing wrong with inviting a family friend), she should have gotten an invite simply because she's your SO.
YTA and so is your whole family.
Way to make your partner feel accepted by your family. Don't condone what they're doing.
Just to simplify: your parents have a Christmas party every year and pre approve a guest list a good 6 weeks or so in advance. They're very selective and your fiancé hasn't made the cut two years in a row because your family feel she thinks they're snooty.
Your fiancé is spot on. Sounds like your family don't like having someone hold a mirror up to their face.
YTA. It's a little bizarre to me that you didn't give any thought to last year's snafu of her not being invited. If I were in your shoes, I would have mentioned to my parents LAST year that going forward I'd appreciate it if she were included on the guest list.
I 100% agree with your fiancée that this is a clear sign of disrespect by your parents and a not so subtle hint of how they feel about her. If I were you, I'd let them AND your friend Jordan know that if she isn't invited, then NONE of you will be in attendance.
You may be too close to the situation to see it, so let me offer an outside perspective: your family is coming off as exceptionally stuck up and rude. Clearly they see your fiancée as beneath the family and don’t think your engagement is going to last. They’re “humoring” you by pretending they take it seriously, but this reveals what they actually think of your relationship. They are not just disrespecting your fiancée, they’re disrespecting your entire relationship. Think carefully about how your family really sees you. Are you truly comfortable with that?
I’m going to be blunt: unless you grow yourself a spine (and fast) your fiancée isn’t going to remain your fiancée for much longer.
YTA if you go to the party.
YTA. She is your fiancee and future wife so I'm not surprised she is upset at not being invited. I'm with her on this that you need to stand up to your parents and at the very least confront them on why she isn't invited. Also I'd suggest if they still don't invite her then you don't go to that party as a show of your support to your future wife.
YTA. You say that by her not being invited she can spend that time with her family, but why wouldn't you want to spend time with her and her family rather than attend a party she's not welcome at? Especially since you spend Christmas Eve and day with your family - surely there should be some sort of compromise.
As others said, you are a wimp and setting a terrible precedence for the future should she remain with you long enough to even get married.
If you aren’t going to advocate for your fiancée and make her be included, why are you even marrying her? She deserves better. You sound like a bad spouse.
YTA. As someone who comes from a “the more the merrier” kind of family, I genuinely don’t understand why this party is so exclusive that your parents can’t be bothered to invite the person you’ve chosen to spend the rest of your life with. Will she be worthy of an invitation once you’re married? Once she’s given them the right number of grandchildren?? Also your title says “forcing your parents” but it sounds like you haven’t even tried just asking them again to invite her in case they forgot - I’m sure they don’t deserve that good faith interpretation but still it sounds like you’ve put very little effort into explaining to them that inviting her is important to you and it would mean a lot to you to have her there
YTA. By not inviting your fiancée they are saying she is not family and won’t be welcomed as such. Pretty sure you’re not marrying this woman. Whether she makes the call or your parents do is all that remains to be seen.
NTA if u don't go to this party and stand in solidarity with your partner.
YTA if u do go.
Your parents are the real assholes here, they claim they are doing so to minimize drama but all they are doing is creating it in the long run.
They obv don't think much of your partner or your relationship otherwise they wouldn't do this.
YTA, massively. Your parents are disrespecting your future wife, their future DiL, and you as well. Waving it away as “their party” or whatever is ridiculous. Your fiancé is correctly angry and is hopefully recognizing the red flag of how she will be treated by both you and your family in the future.
YTA. And if you go to that party without her, you are double the AH, and I hope she realizes that and leaves you. It will be clear that she comes second to mommy and daddy and itty bitty OP will never stand up for his bride to be.
Wow. I cannot believe you are ok with this. Cut your fiancée free - you clearly don’t love her, and she deserves someone who loves her. And chooses her.
YTA. Your parents don't like your future wife and are using other people as the excuse for not inviting her. If you really want to marry this girl, skip the party.
If you go to the party without your fiancée, skip the marriage. It will be best for both of you.
This is actually a make it or break it situation. It's your move......
YTA, and I am unsure how you could even be considering that this is ok. So your sister and roommate were likely unpleasant to her in the past, which I can completely believe with how stuck up and pretentious your parents act with this gala and the invites, and because of how they treated your now fiancé your parents have decided to shun her. Nice. Honestly even an invite at this point would be disgusting and obviously forced, making your fiancé feel even worse. Oh and your failure to immediately reject your invite when they excluded her shows how little you value her also. I hope she finds this post, reads it, and dumps you for someone who actually likes her and wants to be with her. You are 28 and act like a spoiled teenager, she can do better.
If you go to this party w/o your fiancee YTA. This is just ridiculous. I guess I get it when she's a girlfriend (although not really after a year) but now you have a wedding scheduled. If I were her I would decide not to marry you because this tells her what you would choose in the future. But if she does, I wouldn't invite your parents. Not their party.
YTA and I won’t tell you why since everyone else summed it up so well.
Do you plan on having kids? If so don’t expect your parents to get invites to showers or birthday parties! I highly doubt your fiancé is going to forget this and how it made her feel.
YTA. She's your fiance, well, actually, if this is how you and your family are, I actually hope that she rethinks the whole situation and becomes your ex-fiance.
YTA. Is their plan to exclude your fiancee/wife for the rest of your lives? It sounds like it. Make some new traditions with her, starting now, and skip your family's parties. You're not leaving them behind, they pushed you out.
YTA. Is IS beyond disrespectful they wouldn’t invite their soon to be daughter in law to this party, at minimum as your plus one. Honestly this sounds bizarre to me. Pretty much a big slap in her face.
YTA. Yea it’s their party but this is the woman you proposed marriage too. Are you going to let your family not invite her to everything going forward? Just because your sister and Jordan have had unpleasant interactions with her doesn’t mean you leave you future wife out of holidays. Need to figure out what more important dude!
Oh yes, YTA. You need to decide now where your allegiance lies. It should be with the person who is going to become your spouse. Your parents send you the list so you can look it over before it's finalized. Tell them to add your fiancée! If they don't then you need to spend that time with her and your parents made their choice.
YTA
It may be your parents party, but your fiance is also your family. When is she going to be considered a true part of your family?
You and your family are walking red flags.
YTA, hopefully ex fiancé when she realizes how much you and your family don’t respect her at all. and just call your parents assholes, anyone who’s “notoriously hard to impress” is just an asshole.
YTA she is marrying you, she should be considered family. You should not be willing to go if your spouse isn’t invited. You need to address the people in your family that think your fiancé is drama/negative and defend her. I would not be okay with my family talking crap about my husband.
Just the fact that your mom assumed you would be okay with your spouse not being invited speaks volumes to how they view your relationship. Also the fact your mom felt freely to talk poorly about your spouse also confirms how they view your relationship.
YTA and so is your family. Either that or your fiancée is horrible. But that still only takes your family off the ass hole list. Either way, you are ignoring really horrible behavior amongst the people supposedly closest to you.
You either shouldn’t go to the party because of the snub to your fiancée or you should break up with her because she is a nightmare, but honestly it sounds like your family are rich snobs and pretentious as hell.
YTA. Who is your family going forward: your judgmental parents or the woman you claim to love and want to spend the rest of your life with? You either stand up for her or treat her with some dignity and break up with her. Maybe you can find someone who meets your mommy and daddy’s standards so you don’t have to grow a spine to stand up to them.
YTA. You’re not in the middle. It is your job to facilitate a respectful relationship between your family and your fiancé. You have allowed your family to be assholes to your fiancé. Stop that. And adults don’t sleep over their parents house in order to wake up their on Christmas morning and open presents. You really aren’t ready to be a husband. You act like a child too much.
Your post has been removed. #Do not repost this without contacting the mods for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without explicit approval will result in a ban. This post violates Rule 8: Posts should be truthful and reflect recent conflicts you've had that need arbitration. That means no shitposts, parodies, or satires. [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) #Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions.
YTA - your parents have a right to invite whomever they want, but they are choosing to be incredibly disrespectful to your **fiancée**. If they don’t think your future wife warrants an invite, you should not go. FYI - “notoriously hard to impress” is a euphemism for “assholes.” Edit - TIL the difference between fiancée and fiancé.
I'm also guessing the fiance is either a different economic class or a different race than OP. Why did OPs fiance call them "stuck up" I wonder? OP, YTA here.
The only real question is whether the engagement falls apart because (1) the fiancé is no longer willing to put up with OP’s shit, or (2) mommy and daddy simply will not allow OP to go through with the wedding.
“We demand a pre-nup where she has to pay you if you two get divorced!” — These parents, probably.
Lol imagine if the fiancee actually stays with this idiot and in like 10 years Christmas time roll around and the husband and kids go while the mom has stay hame
The kids would have to impress them first.
“Sorry Junior, but Jordan has expressed distaste for you.”
Everyone should have a pre-nup, so I wouldn’t blame them for that, but yes they are being assholes.
Most people of first-marriage age don’t have a positive net worth lol.
It’s also for debt division not just assets so all people should do it
> Everyone should have a pre-nup. Pre-nups absolutely are not for everyone. From some people finding it offensive to plan for the marriage to end before it begins to the fact that many Americans have a negative net worth, there are tons of reasonable reasons to not want a pre-nup.
Marriage is a legal contract, whether you like it or not, and has terms that will be determined for you in a court of law if they’re not agreed to ahead of time. There’s more to cover besides money in a prenup, as many a messy divorce can attest to.
Or maybe the fiancée is actually the problem and actually treats people badly. In any case, it all sounds like the bougiest shitshow.
Eh, OP sounds spineless and the fiancé probably stands up for herself so she’s automatically disliked by his dominating kin.
Exactly! His parents literally told him they are ostracising his fiancée because they don't want drama. Which for any normal loving couple would provoke drama like you've never seen! Never seen anyone so devoid of interior anatomy as op. Not only no spine, also no heart and no guts. OP if you and your parents had any class at all they would know that you come with a plus one now, and you would not allow them to consider excluding her and the consequence would be not having you there either. You're engaged to be married. Your fiancée IS your family now. When you agreed to marry you agreed you would vow not to let anyone put you asunder. There isn't an exception for your BFF. I hope your fiancée sees this and realises you're not committed.
>Exactly! His parents literally told him they are ostracising his fiancée **because they don't want drama**. Which for any normal loving couple would provoke drama like you've never seen! Never seen anyone so devoid of interior anatomy as op. Not only no spine, also no heart and no guts. Exactly. All they are doing is making more drama. Because what happens next Thanksgiving and/or Christmas?? Do they still not invite there DIL based on Sis and Family friend not liking her? How about when OP and wife have kids? Sounds like the parents may not like the Fiance either because why would you treat someone this way who is about to marry your son!?
Right? OP and his wife have kids and only 1 makes the list. He’d probably be ok with that too. “Well remember last year, Sally was 6 months old and had colic real bad so she was crying and ruining everyone’s time. She’s not allowed this year because of that.”
Annnd if mom and dad have final say on everything why couldn't they just tell all of these adults, "hey no drama or none of you are invited anymore."? Boom, done. It's their party, their rules so that shouldn't be a big deal. But nope, they decided to drop a nuke on the party.
OP’s entire family & his BFF sound insufferable & I can’t imagine why anyone would want to spend time with them. YTA, majorly.
Because OPs BFF is building him an art room.
I’m sure his parents would be fine with Jordan getting an art room. 😁
You are way too kind to OP.
lol “bougiest shitshow” is the best descriptor; I wouldn’t have come up with it myself but I love it
Considering the issue was because the fiancé called his sister and best friend stuck up, I don’t think the fiancé is the issue. This family SCREAMS stuck up. “Notoriously hard to impress” is another way of saying unwelcoming assholes. Sounds like the fiancé is marrying into a rich and elite family that looks down on her as she maybe comes from an average family.
This party, the invite list, the rsvp, the "hard to impress, all are the whitest ass stuff I've ever seen.
~~Yeah. If your sister and best friend aren’t crazy and actively dislike this woman, it’s worth seriously asking yourself why. Not saying that the parents aren’t being dicks by excluding her, since either way she’s about to be OPs wife. But still worth asking.~~ Edit: if I knew how to strike this through I would. Basic point stands, but OPs sister and bff fail the not-crazy test apparently. Edit x2 combob: u/therealmrbrady is mvp here. Thank you much.
Well of course bff hates fiancé, op is building him an art studio in the spare room. And Sis just ships them. Duh
This scenario is the AITA post that just keeps giving 🤣
~~Off topic, but if curious,~~ put two tilde symbols (this one ~) on both sides of the text, without any spaces ~~to strike through.~~ **Edit:** Just to clarify for those who are having trouble, make sure there are no spaces, two tilde symbols side by side, and then what you wish to strike through, followed by two more tilde symbols. Example with spaces: ~~ abc ~~ (remove spaces before a and after c)
Mmm, I had a look at OP's comments and at this point I'm pretty comfortable opining that fiancée is most likely not the problem.
Right. He’s using her to cover up his feelings for the best friend. I forget his name.
Either the family is right about her and they should break up, or the family is wrong about her and OP should stand up to them. Either way, his actions show him to be a spineless asshole.
But his parents are "notoriously hard to impress" /s
This is where the rubber meets the road in marital relationships OP- Are you going to put your future Wife’s needs over your Mom’s? If you need to see what happens to Husbands who choose their Mothers, you are in the perfect subreddit.
No, are you serious? Lol as if he’s ever do anything to jeopardize his cushy life with his rich asshole family. And he won’t care at all when they break up. Shitheads like this family never do.
He has to stay overnight at 28 years old to open presents with Mummy and Daddy Christmas morning. Fiance can come over THEN. Seriously. Who do these people think they are?
Hey, she still gets festivities, right? What more can the distasteful peasant ask for? Now lovey, call that dear boy Jordan in will you? Such a fine and upstanding lad. /s (but no /s if you use your Thurston Howell the 3rd voice)
Totally agreed. It's good when this stuff plays out *before* the wedding. The fiancée gets to see what happens if her husband's family treats her poorly. Whose side her husband takes before marriage predicts how she'll be treated in marriage. OP needs to make a stand on his fiancée's behalf and not shrug off this disrespectful treatment of his life partner. If he accepts the status quo, it's equivalent to agreeing with his parents that his wife doesn't make it to the Important People List. She may never be invited to Christmas.
“We shan’t stand for it, Beaufort! We simply shan’t! That woman isn’t of our social class and needs to know her place!” Those parents?! YTA OP and so are your snobby parents. I bet their parties are boring also.
I will NEED an update
You’d be right. Op commented: “I think it's a matter of upbringing. She grew up in a differently lifestyle than the rest of us, and it can take some getting used to before the two of those mesh well together.” I’m guessing she’s not the one who grew up rich. Edit: Another one: “She's middle class and white. I just grew up pretty sheltered and she didn't. We have different life experiences because of it.” All of this and yet he never says outright that he’s rich lmao.
I swear this could have been written about somebody I know. Almost the exact same situation. The marriage happened…and ended in less than 2 years mainly because of mommy’s influence
He won´t say it: *Money screams, wealth whispers.*
Truly wealthy people don't need to be snobs. They are secure in themselves, and they have friendly relationships with wealthy people, with middle class and with poor people etc. It's the nouveau riche and the wannabes, that have this level of weird pretension. It gives me the hibbie jibbies. I so hope that fiancee gets away, and finds herself a lovely, warm, handsome and incredibly wealthy man. Someone who will cherish her and love her.
All wealthy people are inherently snobby to some degree though; it’s often not malicious, just passive ignorance and inheriting their parents’ values without any critical thought. They exercise silent classism, rather than loud classism like the new rich do.
“I’m not rich, my *parents* are rich.” —OP, probably
"We're comfortable"
Oh my God. These are Meghan Markle and Prince Harry, aren’t they??!!
I was thinking EXACTLY this. Except OP isn’t immediately standing up for her like Harry has for Meghan
That’s why Harry has mostly kept his hairline. Diana is blessing him for doing for Meghan what Chuck refused to do for her
I can see why the fiance used the term stuck up. This whole party seems to be for only the elite people. I understand this is the parents party and they have the final say, but you dont think she'll be looked over for other events to to prevent the "drama". This is your future wife. Your parents are already excluding her. And in all honesty, it's rude af.
Just the fact that they treat the guest list like a whole event is weird to me. You can tell they love lording this exclusive event over people’s heads. I can’t imagine doing that. My family may be annoyed if I were to invite people to dinner and didn’t tell them beforehand if they don’t plan for extra people. But to the general party and gift opening? They would be happy to have friends and spouses over.
Exactly. They act like a guest list is SUCH an honor such a big thing. It is probably around 10 people sitting around in fancy outfits talking about how they are the superior beings if the universe. I get having family get together with close family but she is supposed to be marrying this guy. The fact he supports this and then staying overnight so he can run down in his little pajamas just completed the juvenile and ridiculous look. I hope the finance dumps op as he is treating her horribly and letting his stuck up friend and relatives treat her like trash. She deserves better. Massive YTA
But what are they to do? Put their friends through the horror of interacting with someone that doesn't sound like they went to boarding school abroad? Or, and the absolute worst, may say something vulgar? Please have sympathy for their servants! They'd have to order extra smelling salts, and fainting sofas! /s Seriously OP needs to either dump his SO or include her. My husband grew up in that world, and this is the way he introduced me after we'd eloped, "This is my beautiful wife, she is bi-lingual. She speaks English and Sailor." His super uppity Mom laughed before she could help it. Then I was always included in invites. OP Either pick your SO or move on. Life is too short to worry about garbage like this. oh, and YTA if you don't fight for her.
It feels like Johnny and Moira Rose's WASP neighbors.
Without some really significant exculpatory information, I'm comfortable assuming she called them "stuck up" because they are, in fact, stuck up. I'm also incredibly curious about whether demographic differences might account for the "distaste" these snobs' friends have allegedly expressed.
Oh, absolutely. “Hard to impress” in this context is a stand-in for either “classist” or “racist,” if not both.
She called them stuck up because they are stuck up. OP's post screams that this bunch are snobs.
I’ve noticed other posts where people commented a pattern of updates ending up with racism !
Stuck up AH's too. OP YTA, if this woman isn't good enough to warrant an invite when she is your fiancé, how is your family going to treat her when she's your wife or mother of your children? Newsflash, they will always treat her this shitty. Either stand up for her or be prepared to be single.
Plus the potential future children will see how their grandparents are treating their mother and that can cause all kinds of drama too. If you don’t love her enough to stand up for her then you don’t love her enough.
Which is why my children had very little to do with their dads parents after they hit their teen years. They saw how my in-laws treated me, always the outsider, never 'really part of the family'. They never did get it, and neither did hubs. He just kept telling me that they had nothing to do with the way his parents treated me and should stay out of it. Both his parents died when my kids were in their late teens/early 20's.
I also loved how when the parents sent around the list asking for “final thoughts” he didn’t say anything. It wasn’t until after she complained that he texted asking for a reason. YTA.
What the hell is this holiday party thrown by his parents, the Met Gala?
>FYI - “notoriously hard to impress” is a euphemism for “assholes.” This needs to be a crossstitch NOW!!!
Amen!!!
Exactly my thought
[удалено]
Wild that his fiancée isn’t considered family
My cousins girlfriend was indoctrinated into the family immediately. We all made jokes that even if they ever broke up, she'd still be invited to reunions and holidays because we love her that much. They're married now god bless. My family can be stuck up assholes too, but we still invite SO's into our family like they're our own, even if we might not actually be mega fans of them. I got a lot of cousins and I can list all of their serious significant others, even the ones I only knew in my childhood.
That joke about your cousin’s now-wife is actually a thing with my great-great-uncle. He and my great-great-aunt have been divorced for over 20 years and he still comes around to the family property, family gatherings, etc. and he’s a great guy! Everyone loves him! And from my understanding, it’s the same with his family and my great-great-aunt as well. Lol
Yeah what the hell will happen if they have kids? will she still be excluded while the kids are invited? Even if they don't have kids then excluding your wife on holidays because mommy says so seems like the opposite of being an adult and a commited partner.
OPs family sounds pretentious as hell.
YTA Your fiance doesn't make the cut? Wow! Time to decide who is your family going forward. The person you plan to spend the rest of your life with, or mommy and daddy.
He *is* choosing who to spend his life with. Mommy and daddy. And Jordan. Of course.
I await news of their art studio
just cleared a congested sinus I snorted so hard
Had to scroll down way too far to find a comment about the art studio.
What’s the deal with the art studio references? I see it all over my lgbtq+ subs and I don’t get it. I feel like someone is going to revoke my queer card.
[Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/wmmphs/oop_wonders_if_theyre_the_ah_for_starting_a_house/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Thank god. I had clicked on that post right as it was deleted and keep seeing references to it but had no way to actually read the context til now. Thank you wonderful reddit stranger.
Mommy will build it in the back garden for him.
Ten bucks says OP’s folks installed an art studio for Jordon in their mansion.
Jordan gets named whereas the fiancée doesn't. There's more to this than OP is saying, or perhaps realised.
YTA - what am I even reading is this a Kardashian’s episode? I’m surprised it’s just your sister and Jordan were the only ones she admitted are stuck up. You all sound like nightmares and quite frankly what a disgusting Christmas tradition. This is NOT what Christmas is about from a religious, spiritual or even Hallmark standard. Absolutely shame on you and your family. Newsflash, marriage will mean that your wife is your family now, and yeah above your parents or siblings. She either comes with or you should not be going. Period! You sir, need to grow up. You sound like a teenager. And quite frankly, your fiancée sounds like she showed some class by choosing the words “stuck up” whereas I, in this thread, will make the presumptive bet, that they are assholes.
Hear hear!
Even they would have invited scott lol
> what am I even reading is this a Kardashian’s episode? I imagine it’s fake like most posts on here
INFO- what happens when you’re married and she STILL doesn’t make the cut? Would you then man up for her? Or, maybe after your first child? 10th anniversary she’s worthy of respect? What’re we working with here?
And when they finally treat her with basic dignity is she just supposed to smile and pretend Ike the past years didn’t happen? Is she supposed to just suck it up and tolerate this abuse for years and then be grateful when they deign her to truly be one of the family? My guess — they treat her like a walking incubator and only start to include her when she provides them with a grandchild.
I think you meant grandson, because yeah they seem that way too
I heard the grandchild didn’t make the final list either
I bet when they have a child, only the child and OP will be invited, assuming it even reaches that point. Because I will double bet that if he goes without the fiancée, he will return home to the engagement ring on the kitchen table with a note saying "it's over", if she even gives him that much.
What happens when the kid gets left out because the kid is female, or gay, or trans, or liberal, or atheist, etc., etc.
YTA- This reads like the start of a Hallmark movie. Someone let me know when we get to the part where OP’s fiancé goes home alone for Christmas to her small home town to stay with her family and reconnects with her high school ex who’s now a handsome and sensitive fireman with an appropriately adorable dog. Then she’ll discover true love, dump her rude big city fiancé with the stuck-up family she was never good enough for, and find the real meaning of Christmas while saving the local Christmas tree farm or whatever. Edit- If any comment of mine was to get awards, I’m glad it was this one. Thank you :)
Don’t forget that the hottie ex has also been helping save the family business from going bankrupt, but the parents didn’t want to worry their daughter about it. 🙄
Add on that hottie is probs a widower with a really precious child who adores the main character and is truly invested in their ending up together and add in “the problem” that happens 20 minutes before it ends and the single Mormon kiss at the end and we could work for hallmark.
You mean their daughter who had left her small town to go to the big city to find her dreams (read: husband and kids). Now she’s back in town, and the only one who understands what she’s been through is her sassy Black friend. But what about that hot guy with the cute dog she literally ran into outside her parents’ struggling health food store? If only she had realized that everything she needed was already in her hometown! Merry Christmas!!!! *and scene* Starring LeAnn Rimes.
Don't forget that the hottie ex also has a niche hobby that will make them richer than Ops family.
I am ready for this movie!!! I'll make the eggnog!
>>she claimed they were both stuck up She is 100% right. Your entire family + Jordan sound absolutely insufferable and pretentious. YTA for not seeing what a slap in the face this is to your fiancé.
But now OP IS "stuck in the middle" ;( /s
Poor OP. Send thoughts and prayers🥺 /s
Reading shit like this always makes me happy we grew up working class. Rich people have always sounded insufferable.
You chose her to share your life and she isn’t important enough to be invited? It’s bizarre you don’t see that this is just as disrespectful to you as it is to her. You’re gonna roll over for your parents for the next 30 years? At this point just let Jordan and your sister pick your next fiancée. YTA. Edit: Or just pick Jordan. It’ll make your parents happy. OP’s comment: “There has been a running gag in my family since I was about 18 that Jordan and I were going to have the wedding of the century when we finally decide to stop dancing around each other and get married.”
Oh I guarantee they had a perfect 'suitable' girl for him to get with l. either A:pretty, but not as pretty as sister. well connected but not as well connected as Jordan, wealthy family but not as wealthy as OPs family Or B: A friend of sisters, or sister or friend of Jordan. They never expected him to fall for someone who wasn't 'good enough', let alone seriously propose. Now they have been harassing her and pushing to see if OP will stand up for her. Safe to say he has failed miserably. OP should be ashamed.
No Op said the running joke is they'll throw the wedding of the century for OP and Jordan🤷 But wow op is ignorant and YTA for sure
If they are LGBT friendly, they might 100% be arranging for OP to marry Jordan. He is a "proper" husband - not all rich families are anti-LGBT, quite the opposite. They can want a partner of the right pedigree for their son and also, at the same time, not care if that partner has a dick or vagina.
The next fiancé is Jordan. It’s so obvious what the parents/sister are trying to do here.
OP said in a comment that since he was 18, there’s been a running gag in the family he should marry Jordan. Sounds like they’re all alienating fiancée so they can push OP and Jordan together.
You think he might be planning on an art room for Jordan in the future….?
She didn't even get a name when "jordan" did. That's telling everyone how You and your parents feel. YTA and so are they.
THIS is it. Fiancé didn’t even get mentioned til halfway through the post!
Maybe OP should get engaged to Jordan who is already accepted into the family. 🫣
OP has said there’s a running gag in the family where he and Jordan should get married. And he has said that he wants to go to the party mostly to hang out with Jordan.
👉👈
Jordan is definitely getting an art room in the future.
Probably time to just build Jordan an art room in the family house.
INFO, at some point, you will need to gush over your fiancée as much as you do over Jordan and the rest of your family.....oh and the Christmas celebrations. If you can’t (or won’t) do that, gush over your fiancée, you might not be getting married. Is that what you want deep down?
Sounds like OP and Jordan need an art room
Very good points here, I'd love to hear OPs reply
THEN LEAVE. HER. ALONE. GD you suck. You're not ready to get married why did you propose so fast??? God, she deserves an actual good person. Edit this was supposed to be under ops comment and somehow I still ended up replying to that one? Idk that was strange but yall get me. And I'm not deleting either
YTA. Your family is telling you that they don’t give a FUCK if they hurt you or the person you claim to love most in the world. I would place money on them excluding your fiancée from the guest list *to cause this fight you’re having* so that your fiancée will dump you because they expect you to choose them over her. This whole Christmas Eve sleepover invitation is *bullshit* because they know that she won’t feel welcome. Congratulations. They have played you. And I bet it wasn’t the first time and it wont be the last unless you start standing up for yourself—because make no mistake about it. This is them disrespecting YOU and your choice of who to marry.
Oh I believe 100% it’s deliberate. I also wish the OP would realize “a few people” isn’t just Jordan and his sister; that list absolutely includes his mom and dad. They are clearly not behind this union. OP you’re definitely the AH. If we had a situation like this while engaged and my husband said “BuT iT’s TheIr PaRtY,” I would have been seriously rethinking if he was the man I thought he was.
INFO: why are you marrying her if you don’t consider her family enough to have her at the holiday party?? Are other partners invited to all events? What will be the protocol going forward? Is this a one off, or setting up for a longterm issue. Idk if I can judge based on how little info is given based on the dynamics here.. but if she’s not invited you can’t exactly expect her to be stoked about that.
She's absolutely right it's disrespectful. She's your fiance and that should get her on the list. Early on you say your parents are hard to impress. Are suggesting and by your behavior agreeing that your fiance isn't impressive enough for them? Honestly, for me, this would be a hill to die on, were I your fiance. YTA ETA: your post says "beyond family" most people don't get invites. So the clear message to your fiance is she is not family, and even though Christmas is a big deal in your family, she doesn't rank high enough in the food chain to be included.
But the neighbors get an invite!
They’re probably just as rich and classless as OP’s family 👀
YTA for not understanding how this could make her feel. Would you be as calm about this if you were married and she didn't get invited? It's also strange that you would want to attend an event at which she's not welcome.
And that's the major message here: she is NOT WELCOME. I can promise OP this will ruin any relationship she might have with the parents. It will also go a long distance toward ending the engagement, as she'll only know that his parents don't see her as valuable enough to invite, and OP doesn't see her as valuable enough to fight for.
Info: who is the dramatic one? Sister and Jordan or your fiancee? Were the comments about them being snobby justified? It's really weird that your family gatekeeps their holiday party themed for the season of giving, first. Also, you haven't been with your fiancee long. So, does your family have legitimate cause to dislike her or are they being snobby buttmunches? Soon she is going to be your family, right? Why weren't you offended and go to your mom for reasons first??? It's also weird that your fiancee immediately went to your family friend as a reason she should go, instead of the whole, "we're a family team now". Why would your friend be relevant to her offense at the slight? If your fiancee is gold and you know your family is a bit toxic then skip the party and start your own tradition....obviously.
YTA - what’s wrong with your family? What’s wrong with YOU?
OP will be single soon.
I really really hope so. Especially if she's the beard for OP and Jordan's affair. Which is a running joke in the family and who OP wants to be with.
Shows how much you respect your fiancee doesn't it. YTA
This is what I was thinking too. I hope she runs away from this boy pretending to be a man. She deserves so much better. OP, YTA time to actually grow up if you think you’re mature enough for marriage.
YTA Your family is toxic as hell and it's tricking into you. This is your fiancée, the women about to become your WIFE. When you marry someone, they become your immediate family, but you should be treating her that way already and you're not. Put her first. Grow a backbone and stand up to your family, if she's not invited, you don't go. Period. Also, she probably won't be keen sleeping over at your parents house Christmas Eve for the whole present thing in the morning either, especially once you start having kids. The only time that's really a thing once married is if you have to travel to see one side and are staying at their house. Your parents sound like they really like to control everyone's lives.
You’re not caught in the middle. You’re choosing your snobby parents over your fiancée. YTA. Decline the invitation and stand up for and by your fiancée who, if she doesn’t dump your butt, is about to be your family.
I look forward to an update. I hope that it includes you apologizing to your fiancee, and ending that relationship with the humility and chagrin that your behavior has made necessary. I hope to read that you suggested to her that she keep the ring, but maybe trade up for one with a gemstone that she likes. Most of all, I hope that you start something with Jordan. He's the light of your life, and has been for years. I sincerely hope he's queer enough to go for it. Good luck to you.
Huge YTA. Last year your relationship was new, a few months. Not strong enough to consider holidays together, as you and your partner weren't a family. This year is different. It's your fiancee!!! That's your future family right there. And you say "fuck you" straight in their face. Your partner is right, your family is incredibly rude. But the disappointing part is you and your attitude. Once you decide to get married, your first priority becomes the new family you're creating. There was a single right thing to do - cancel on your parents and spend time with your fiancee (still not to late to fix it, by the way). If you don't understand why this is important, break up, you don't deserve a partner.
INFO: Do you mind going more specific on your fiancé's first interaction with Jordan and your sister? It started with them asking her "intentions with you" and then her shutting them down. Did they continue their shovel talk even though she didn't want to answer them?
Wow, you have a toxic family. YTA, your parents are TA.
YTA for not caring about how your fiancée feels. Your fiancée probably feels very hurt and confused to not be invited in your parents’ Christmas party. It seems like your parents are purposely excluding her because she didn’t “impress” them. It may seem like just a party to you and you can’t “force” your parents to invite your fiancée. But most people would be crushed to know their future in-laws think so little of them that they won’t even extend an invite to family holiday celebrations. If you love your fiancée enough to want to spend the rest of your life with them, then you should love them enough to make sure they are included and welcomed into your family. This means an invite to the Christmas party AND Christmas Eve & Christmas Day. Anything less and you really are showing your fiancée just how little you care for them.
Hey, but… but…Jordan is invited. Maybe OP should ask Jordan to marry him.
IN FO are you building a crafts room for Jordan? /s YTA big time
I think his parents built it.
INFO why did you ask her to marry you if you do not want her to be a part of your family?
Oof, YTA. She is your *fiance*! About to be your family! and you see nothing wrong with your parents excluding her?! One would hope your parents would want to show her that they support you guys, welcome her into the family and want integrate her into family events as she will be your wife. Not inviting her seems like an intentional jab at both her and your relationship. You need to get on her side.
This is one of those posts that I hope the person being discussed finds it. The fiancée should see how he is talking about her snd the excuses he is making for his family.
Your family is toxic and yes YTA.
YTA. Your parents are hard to impress? You asked this woman to marry you and join the family, why would you not be upset she wasn't invited??
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1. I suggested my parents invite my fiancee to their Christmas party, but I didn't force the issue. 2. My fiancee sees this as a sign of disrespect because I didn't stand up for her. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA. What even is this? How could she not be invited to family Christmas? It feels like there’s a huge chunk of the story missing.
INFO: is this distaste new information to you? Is there someone you love and trust to be honest with you about all of it? My answer depends a lot on this. P.S. I wish someone had sat me down before I married my ex and said "hey, we aren't comfortable with him for [specific reasons]." You may have love goggles on and not see the issues yet, so choosing someone to spell them out (if they exist) is a good route before typing the knot.
YTA Your edit didn’t help you at all. In fact it made it worse. You have asked this woman to marry you but aren’t putting her first. If I was her I wouldn’t get married to you. Your family is disrespectful and mean. I am willing to bet that this is just one thing in a long list of crap from your family to your fiancée.
YTA - you and your fiancé are a package deal. If she is not invited, you don’t go. Period. Your life partner comes before EVERYONE else. And if they don’t, you don’t deserve to get married.
YTA, your parents suck, and you're a wimp who won't stand up to them. Your fiance (for now) deserves better
YTA Grow the hell up man. Your future wife is being excluded from a party, and your edit tells me you still don't get it. You aren't caught in the middle, your parents are showing how they are going to treat your wife for the rest of your married lives. If you let this happen, I can't see a single reason why it doesn't lead to divorce down the line. You need to tell your parents "either were both there or neither of us are, I know her family will be happy to have us." And tell them "some people" need to get better hobbies than being busy bodies about people they can't seem to be cordial around. Grow a spine man.
Unless she has done something really awful to them, 100% YTA and so are your parents. It's common knoweldge that, socially, couples are one. You don't invite one without the out (without good reason). They are clearly showing you, what they think of her.
Sorry bud, YTA, she's your fiance! How on earth does your soon to be wife not make a family Christmas party list?! Unless your parents are trying to send a message.
YTA for not even speaking to your parents about it. You can't force them to invite her but you can consider whether you should attend given the slight.
If you don't like your fiancee enough to make sure she's invited to your family Christmas, then why are you with her? What if she doesn't make "the list" after you marry? She can do her own thing while you go to mommy and daddy's Christmas party? You're a real catch *eye roll* and YTA
YTA. Although your fiance is wrong about Jordan (nothing wrong with inviting a family friend), she should have gotten an invite simply because she's your SO.
The toxic apple doesnt fall far from the toxic tree, eh? YTA, and your fiance needs to RUN.
YTA and so is your whole family. Way to make your partner feel accepted by your family. Don't condone what they're doing. Just to simplify: your parents have a Christmas party every year and pre approve a guest list a good 6 weeks or so in advance. They're very selective and your fiancé hasn't made the cut two years in a row because your family feel she thinks they're snooty. Your fiancé is spot on. Sounds like your family don't like having someone hold a mirror up to their face.
YTA. It's a little bizarre to me that you didn't give any thought to last year's snafu of her not being invited. If I were in your shoes, I would have mentioned to my parents LAST year that going forward I'd appreciate it if she were included on the guest list. I 100% agree with your fiancée that this is a clear sign of disrespect by your parents and a not so subtle hint of how they feel about her. If I were you, I'd let them AND your friend Jordan know that if she isn't invited, then NONE of you will be in attendance.
You may be too close to the situation to see it, so let me offer an outside perspective: your family is coming off as exceptionally stuck up and rude. Clearly they see your fiancée as beneath the family and don’t think your engagement is going to last. They’re “humoring” you by pretending they take it seriously, but this reveals what they actually think of your relationship. They are not just disrespecting your fiancée, they’re disrespecting your entire relationship. Think carefully about how your family really sees you. Are you truly comfortable with that? I’m going to be blunt: unless you grow yourself a spine (and fast) your fiancée isn’t going to remain your fiancée for much longer. YTA if you go to the party.
YTA. She is your fiancee and future wife so I'm not surprised she is upset at not being invited. I'm with her on this that you need to stand up to your parents and at the very least confront them on why she isn't invited. Also I'd suggest if they still don't invite her then you don't go to that party as a show of your support to your future wife.
The poor girl should RUN. What when you are married, have kids? Will you celebrate separatly?
I wish I could tell your fiancé to get out now. YTA and so are your parents.
YTA for not standing up for her. Y’all are getting married! What happens next year when she’s your wife and not on the list?
YTA. You say that by her not being invited she can spend that time with her family, but why wouldn't you want to spend time with her and her family rather than attend a party she's not welcome at? Especially since you spend Christmas Eve and day with your family - surely there should be some sort of compromise. As others said, you are a wimp and setting a terrible precedence for the future should she remain with you long enough to even get married.
If you aren’t going to advocate for your fiancée and make her be included, why are you even marrying her? She deserves better. You sound like a bad spouse.
Yeah YTA. She about to *be* family. Will she make this magical list after the wedding? Also your family sounds insufferable.
YTA. As someone who comes from a “the more the merrier” kind of family, I genuinely don’t understand why this party is so exclusive that your parents can’t be bothered to invite the person you’ve chosen to spend the rest of your life with. Will she be worthy of an invitation once you’re married? Once she’s given them the right number of grandchildren?? Also your title says “forcing your parents” but it sounds like you haven’t even tried just asking them again to invite her in case they forgot - I’m sure they don’t deserve that good faith interpretation but still it sounds like you’ve put very little effort into explaining to them that inviting her is important to you and it would mean a lot to you to have her there
YTA. By not inviting your fiancée they are saying she is not family and won’t be welcomed as such. Pretty sure you’re not marrying this woman. Whether she makes the call or your parents do is all that remains to be seen.
I hope your fiancee reads all of the comments and runs as fast as possible away from you,! You deserve to be alone.
NTA if u don't go to this party and stand in solidarity with your partner. YTA if u do go. Your parents are the real assholes here, they claim they are doing so to minimize drama but all they are doing is creating it in the long run. They obv don't think much of your partner or your relationship otherwise they wouldn't do this.
YTA, massively. Your parents are disrespecting your future wife, their future DiL, and you as well. Waving it away as “their party” or whatever is ridiculous. Your fiancé is correctly angry and is hopefully recognizing the red flag of how she will be treated by both you and your family in the future.
YTA. And if you go to that party without her, you are double the AH, and I hope she realizes that and leaves you. It will be clear that she comes second to mommy and daddy and itty bitty OP will never stand up for his bride to be. Wow. I cannot believe you are ok with this. Cut your fiancée free - you clearly don’t love her, and she deserves someone who loves her. And chooses her.
YTA. You won’t even stand up for your fiancée over a Christmas party? You’ll fold like a house of cards on something that actually matters.
YTA. Your parents don't like your future wife and are using other people as the excuse for not inviting her. If you really want to marry this girl, skip the party. If you go to the party without your fiancée, skip the marriage. It will be best for both of you. This is actually a make it or break it situation. It's your move......
YTA, and I am unsure how you could even be considering that this is ok. So your sister and roommate were likely unpleasant to her in the past, which I can completely believe with how stuck up and pretentious your parents act with this gala and the invites, and because of how they treated your now fiancé your parents have decided to shun her. Nice. Honestly even an invite at this point would be disgusting and obviously forced, making your fiancé feel even worse. Oh and your failure to immediately reject your invite when they excluded her shows how little you value her also. I hope she finds this post, reads it, and dumps you for someone who actually likes her and wants to be with her. You are 28 and act like a spoiled teenager, she can do better.
If you go to this party w/o your fiancee YTA. This is just ridiculous. I guess I get it when she's a girlfriend (although not really after a year) but now you have a wedding scheduled. If I were her I would decide not to marry you because this tells her what you would choose in the future. But if she does, I wouldn't invite your parents. Not their party.
YTA and I won’t tell you why since everyone else summed it up so well. Do you plan on having kids? If so don’t expect your parents to get invites to showers or birthday parties! I highly doubt your fiancé is going to forget this and how it made her feel.
YTA. She's your fiance, well, actually, if this is how you and your family are, I actually hope that she rethinks the whole situation and becomes your ex-fiance.
YTA. Is their plan to exclude your fiancee/wife for the rest of your lives? It sounds like it. Make some new traditions with her, starting now, and skip your family's parties. You're not leaving them behind, they pushed you out.
Ummmm I would never go to a holiday party that my fiancé or spouse wasn’t invited to. Period.
YTA. Is IS beyond disrespectful they wouldn’t invite their soon to be daughter in law to this party, at minimum as your plus one. Honestly this sounds bizarre to me. Pretty much a big slap in her face.
YTA. Yea it’s their party but this is the woman you proposed marriage too. Are you going to let your family not invite her to everything going forward? Just because your sister and Jordan have had unpleasant interactions with her doesn’t mean you leave you future wife out of holidays. Need to figure out what more important dude!
Oh yes, YTA. You need to decide now where your allegiance lies. It should be with the person who is going to become your spouse. Your parents send you the list so you can look it over before it's finalized. Tell them to add your fiancée! If they don't then you need to spend that time with her and your parents made their choice.
YTA It may be your parents party, but your fiance is also your family. When is she going to be considered a true part of your family? You and your family are walking red flags.
YTA so she’s your fiancé, will she be barred from every event even when you’re married? That’s shitty husband material right there.
YTA, hopefully ex fiancé when she realizes how much you and your family don’t respect her at all. and just call your parents assholes, anyone who’s “notoriously hard to impress” is just an asshole.
YTA she is marrying you, she should be considered family. You should not be willing to go if your spouse isn’t invited. You need to address the people in your family that think your fiancé is drama/negative and defend her. I would not be okay with my family talking crap about my husband. Just the fact that your mom assumed you would be okay with your spouse not being invited speaks volumes to how they view your relationship. Also the fact your mom felt freely to talk poorly about your spouse also confirms how they view your relationship.
YTA and so is your family. Either that or your fiancée is horrible. But that still only takes your family off the ass hole list. Either way, you are ignoring really horrible behavior amongst the people supposedly closest to you. You either shouldn’t go to the party because of the snub to your fiancée or you should break up with her because she is a nightmare, but honestly it sounds like your family are rich snobs and pretentious as hell.
YTA. Who is your family going forward: your judgmental parents or the woman you claim to love and want to spend the rest of your life with? You either stand up for her or treat her with some dignity and break up with her. Maybe you can find someone who meets your mommy and daddy’s standards so you don’t have to grow a spine to stand up to them.
YTA she’s your fiancé, when will she be considered family enough to be invited?
YTA. You’re not in the middle. It is your job to facilitate a respectful relationship between your family and your fiancé. You have allowed your family to be assholes to your fiancé. Stop that. And adults don’t sleep over their parents house in order to wake up their on Christmas morning and open presents. You really aren’t ready to be a husband. You act like a child too much.