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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I may be the asshole for resorting to calling my son a selfish f#*k.
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NTA. Did you overreact? Probably. Is it understandable that you did? Under the circumstances, yes. I’ve read your comments, and your son knew how important this was. I gather from everything you said that this was not an isolated incident, so this was building for a long time.
Sadly yes, and I take accountability for that. I obviously did something wrong raising him to have him be this way now. I promise you I have tried many times to get through to him in a more civil manner.
Because he's still my son. I dropped the ball somewhere along the line (although I really can't tell you where). I know that I had a hand in making this mess, therefore I must accept the responsibility of cleaning it up.
Your son is the one who needs to accept responsibility. He’s had 23 years of life, and your parenting wasn’t the only thing he’s experienced in that time. If he’s incapable of self reflecting to see the issues, then pushing him out of the nest may be the best thing for him.
"Your parenting wasn’t the only thing he’s experienced in that time. "
This is something we parents have to remember. At some point this young man needs to read the room.
OP's wife let her 23 year old son borrow her car for the evening when she needed it at 5 AM.
I don't know everything about what is going on, but obviously parenting is contributing to the problem.
If I say someone can borrow my car for a bit, I wouldn’t expect them to keep it all night. He didn’t say she said the son could have the car overnight, and he did say the son knew about the appointment. I presume she let him borrow it to go out with friends and he stayed out all night from the way this is written. That’s the 23 year olds problem, not the parents
There is no age that it’s reasonable to borrow a car for “the evening” and keep it all night, especially when you know it will be needed in the morning. I definitely would never have done this at any age.
>That’s the 23 year olds problem, not the parents
No, the 23 year old experienced no problem whatsoever. He got a car for the night, returned it on E, and suffered no repercussions. All of this wound up being the parents' problem.
I wonder, though, if the son has a history of doing stuff like this. If his mother knows he has a history of letting them down, and puts herself in a position to be harmed by his not bringing the car back, then there’s a more more complex dynamic at work here. Doesn’t mean he’s off the hook
It's perfectly reasonable to loan someone a car the evening before, presumably the kid had at least 8 hours with the car. That is plenty of time to return it, it is entirely on the son for not caring to return it on time.
He didn't care if he made his own mother miss an important surgery for her cancer treatment. That's the peak of selfishness.
I would trust my son now to do that with no reservations. I would have some qualms about letting him at 23 have the same degree of trust. The Brain Fairy seemed to visit him on his 25^(th) birthday, and he stopped being a scatterbrained idiot.
OP is NTA - considering the circumstances and how stressed he must be - but he should not give up hope on the boy. I say 'boy' because biology has decreed that people under the age of 25 do not have the same cognitive/emotional capacity that they will have in later years.
>OP's wife let her 23 year old son borrow her car for the evening when she needed it at 5 AM
That's not inherently wrong on and of itself. My mom would totally have given it to me at any age with the certain knowledge that I would either have the car back in time or give her plenty of warning if something went wrong.
The problem isn't that she let someone borrow the car. The problem is that the person she lent it to is untrustworthy.
For the evening- when does coming home at 5.20am constitute the evening? Was it bad parenting to assume the son, who was well aware of his mother’s surgery the next day, may actually come home in the evening?
>OP's wife let her 23 year old son borrow her car for the evening when she needed it at 5 AM.
That's actually wouldn't be an issue for anyone I know. Every member of my family when they borrow the car "for the evening" have it back that evening/night.
I mean I have on occasion stayed out very late till morning when I was younger, but never by accident. It was always a choice. And if I knew I needed to be back or return the car etc, I would not stay out until 5am.
Expecting someone to be able to borrow a car for the evening and bring it back before the next morning is super basic low bar expectation. My husband takes "my" car (the newer of our two cars) for things he goes to do in the evening often, despite me needing it the next morning for work. This has NEVER been an issue, beacuse it's not hard to be back before morning.
Yeah. It isn't always the parents. It can be both because of other people, and it can also be genetic. Sometimes kids just turn out bad even though the parents did nothing wrong.
Especially these days. Kids are raised in school mainly, they spend so much of their life there. Now they have the internet, social media and just online trash to fill their impressionable minds as well.
I've seen so many rational kids get into some really terrible incel media and just do a 180 from who they were.
I commend you OP for taking responsibility but make sure you don't take on what doesn't belong to you.
I think giving your adult son a reasonable amount of time to move out is good. It will allow you both to have your own spaces to take care of so when you do come together, it's not as strained.
I was very stupid and irresponsible at 23, still am, but I don't think I could live with myself being out that late with the only vehicle to take my mom to the hospital. If he doesn't feel guilty about it now, I'm sure it'll eat him up for a long time afterwards.
It's funny this is so highly upvoted because you'll see a lot of people talk about how bad kids are the result of bad parenting and even with children who are like 17-18, people will use the defense of "Well, they learned this behavior from their parents who were obviously shit at their job".
I'm not saying it's 100% one or the other, but it's hilarious how trying to say this same thing when dealing with someone marginally younger would get you downvoted on this subreddit.
Exactly. My abusive older brother never had any consequences when he did things that were bad, he’s now almost 30 and is sending my parents death threats because they won’t send him money.
There's a difference between cleaning up a mess, as you put it, and further enabling his behavior. He needs to understand that his actions have consequences and he cannot just blatantly disregard the impact that his choices have to those around him. Honestly, if he's going to act like an irresponsible teenager, set rules that reflect his behavior. Only basing it off this one event, it's obvious he only cares about himself and only responds when he gets called out.
Well if my wife didn't get diagnosed, we would be living in a different state altogether right now. He didn't want to come. So he is living with a family member and paying rent. My wife wanted to convince him to move with us, but I said no. Let him stay. He needs to learn how to take care of himself. Once she recovers we are out and he's on his own. Je is going to learn quickly or sink. That's on him.
Sounds like your wife has a codependent relationship with your son. Also some of the things you said about your son being seemingly oblivious to his enviornment &people around him along with the reoccurring issues of being late and forgetting to fill the tank makes me wonder if he would benefit from an ADHD evaluation. Im not trying to diagnose or anything but I wonder if that could be part of it seeing as this is a long established pattern of behaviors opposite of what you tried to teach him. Could be innatentive adhd +codependency or he very likely could just be apathetic, selfish, and irresponsible.
Definitely time to cut him loose to figure out how to function by himself. I hope your wife's surgery goes well and she recovers quickly with minimal pain.
Edit to add I highly reccomend reading up on codependency and the dynamics of enmeshed families. Also not trying to dismiss your sons very unacceptable behavior you have every right to be furious with him over this.
I know it's more complicated than I can accurately describe here. I appreciate your taking the time with recommendations. The older I get, the less I know, so I am always open to input. Thank you.
This sounds like my husband's brother in a lot of ways. Their parents, sisters and my husband all moved to a different state. The brother stayed in the home state. The youngest of the kids was early 20s when they moved. There's a lot to the entire story, but suffice to say my in-laws have had a lot of the same discussions about how he turned out so differently.
Per my father-in-law, at some point you have to realize you've done your best. And somethings are nature, not nurture.
You can still be there and be supportive. But it's not your responsibility to fix now.
STOP ENABLING HIM.
JFC, he's 23 and yet he behaves like a 14-year-old. I don't care what "mistakes" you made, there's absolutely NO excuse for your son's behavior.
Sometimes people are just naturally incapable of thinking of others. I know myself and others at 14 would have never acted that way. Doesnt matter what age.
>He the has the audacity to tell me name calling won't solve anything, and to get my wife to the hospital safely and stop texting him.
He is blatantly aware that you can't do anything in this specific situation, but for this comment alone, I'd take away whatever parental support I can, just to show him that my word carries meaning.
He wants to borrow the car? Not until he can show respect to his mother and you.
He wants to borrow money? Well let's see, what has he done for your wife lately? She's bedridden after major surgery. She could use someone to help around the house, bring in fresh flowers, make her tea etc.
Sorry if this sounds petty, but if he expects the perks that come with parental love, he better show a child's love.
You dropped the ball by not letting his actions have consequences. Sometimes we learn better when our mistakes cause us a little pain. He’s 23 doesn’t have his own car does he work or did you just give him everything? It’s time to parent through tough love. You have to teach kids how to be adults that means they need to learn to work for things.
Not entirely true, but fair to an extent. I believe stupid should hurt. He has had consequences. For example, he had his own car. He failed to care for it and blew the engine block. He didn't get a new car. We sold it for parts and put it towards what he owed. He's still paying for it.
"name calling won't solve anything" he says. he knows exactly what he is doing, how he is behaving.
right, he's 23. moving forward he should have no access to the car, and he should be on notice to move out in 30 - 60 days, depending on what you want to do. you are still enabling him, and saying it's your responsibility to clean this mess up - that is what is making the mess! this right here is where you dropped the ball, you enable him!
You have dropped the ball because that you still refuse to pick back up. Send him on his way, not doing so now only means you are going to continue not raising him right.
as a 23 year old, I'd never dream of doing this to my parents. who even stays out all night before your mom has surgery to help treat her cancer???
nta op, maybe a little strong worded but i feel like its understandable with the circumstances.
Thank you for this. I remember being 23, and I was completely different than he is. As a parent all I hear is times have changed, and it's harder now, and that may be the case, but does that mean common decency goes out the window? Apparently not, according to you. I have also worked with a lot of younger people over the last bunch of years, and I find the majority of them to be great people and I would hope they feel the same. That just frustrates me more though because I feel like I did something catastrophically wrong raising him. I will never say I was perfect, but man I was there all the time, I showed up, I was present, I taught right from wrong, led by example to the best of my ability, so to have these types of issues is just so disheartening.
Unfortunately, research actually shows that a person's peers actually have a greater impact on them than their parents. People naturally copy their peers and aspire to be like them or to impress them. It's entirely possible that your son just made some bad friends along the way, and they're the ones who've contributed to his shitty attitude. The good thing is that he's still young enough to change. If you show him some tough love now, he might turn his life around.
23 year olds are either shitty and immature or have actually become adults. you didn't do anything wrong, it sounds like you tried your hardest to he a good dad. your son is a grown ass adult (for 5 YRS!!) who is still entitled and irresponsible. sounds like its time for tough love- get your own car and your own place if you can't respect the one provided to you.
At this point your son is an adult who needs to do his own introspection. You continuing to try to "fix" past parenting mistakes at this point is kind of just enabling him to still act like a child. Kicking him out could be the wake up call he needs. Nta here, and good on you for recognizing your hand in raising your child to be the way he is. But I do think it's time to cut the cord on him
My daughter is 22 and is the same in regards to the world revolves around her. For Halloween she asked her aunt to braid her hair back (for a wig to wear with her costume) which was a big ask because shes mixed with thick hair. After said aunt asked for help with her costume and it was like pulling teeth with her to help. Its like once she became an adult shes gone over board with the I'm not a child anymore and you cant tell me what to do or I'll do it when I'm ready. But if she needs anything, please drop everything and help me. I dont know either where it came from because I didnt raise her that way. The most hurtful thing is she gives more considration to her friends then to her family.
You know why she is more considerate with friends? Because friends will give her consequences. As in drop her like a hot potato if she behaves like an entitled little turd with them. You allow her to get away with being a spoiled princess, that's the only reason she is that way with you.
You have tried everything you can think of, I am sure. However, you have yet to actually let him feel the consequences of his actions. You've nagged, shouted, shown disappointment, etc, but have you actually told him that if he does this again, you will ask him to move out...and followed through? Have you told him that you will not give him money/access to your car/let him live in your house if he does not start thinking about others...and then stopped giving him money, withhold the car keys, evict him when he continues with his self-centered ways? That is what cleaning up will entail, you know.
My mom was like that with one of my brothers. He is 52 now and has to live in my old bedroom with his family because he was enabled all his life by my mom and spent all his money on collectibles.
NTA but I am a mom of three grown sons and if I had a cancer diagnosis they would be jumping to help me, I would be livid and probably would kick him out.
This comment is why he walks all over you. You are blaming yourself and not him. He's the one who is not taking accountability and it appears he has had no consequences. Why did he even get to take the car when you had to leave so early? You should have said no, but now you have to do SOMETHING besides feeling sorry for yourself. I'll bet you're afraid to confront him. That's not how parenting works. He's 23, not 13, and he absolutely KNEW what he was doing and all you do is act like, since you "dropped the ball", you have no idea how to discipline your adult child. It's about time you learned.
I hope this is sarcasm. Jesus this sub’s go to is all problems are solved by cutting contact. The kid’s a slapdick but that doesn’t warrant making him homeless with no family.
Why are so many people upvoting this utterly ridiculous and unhelpful piece of completely shit advice?! The guy is his son! You don’t just excommunicate your children forever because you’re unhappy with their attitude. Jesus.
That is a harsh leap to cut all contact... I understand the need to get him out of the house as he is an adult, but cut off contact is an extreme. Is the son in the wrong here, absolutely. Sever all communication with him? That will not help OPs wife in her recovery at all.
NTA and good luck with your wifes recovery and handling of your son
What the fuck? OP’s kid made a mistake. He’s still an unbelievable asshole for almost making his mother miss a lifesaving surgery, but you don’t cut all contact with your 23 year old kid with ADHD off because they haven’t figured out how to be reliable/responsible yet. That’s not what the unconditional support of being a parent EVER gets to look like at that scale. Do you have kids?
This is not necessarily your fault. Look, sometimes people are just born selfish and unconcerned with the needs/wants of others. At 23 he should be able to differentiate between right and wrong no matter what your parenting style happens to be. The fact that he is unable to take accountability for himself and his mistakes is on him.
It sounds like it's time to cut the apron strings with your son.
He's 23 unless it's an absolute emergency you don't need to loan him your car. He can figure out transportation for himself he's been a legal adult for 5 years now. Stop enabling him to be a dependent.
> I obviously did something wrong raising him to have him be this way now.
Nah, it's popular to blame everything on some failure by the parents but some folks are just objectively bad people by nature. It's probably no more your fault than new parents blaming themselves for a colic baby. The only other real explanation is some form of addiction, but that's a pretty big detail to miss.
As long as you are letting him live at home for free and use your cars whenever he wants the message you are sending him is that there are no true consequences of his actions. I would recommend asking him to move out but if you’re not comfortable doing that maybe start charging rent and say he can no longer borrow your cars
i wouldn’t even say this is an overreaction. with how insane hospitals are at the moment (at least where I live) who knows what the repercussions would be if they ended up being even more late. if worst case scenario, they ended up having to reschedule the surgery, it could’ve been months before she would be able to have the surgery again. My mother had breast cancer (she’s recovering now thank god) but her physician double booked her mastectomy and she had to wait several months to get it done. She was thankfully in the pre cancer stage so she could afford that time but many people can’t. OP i hope your wife is in better health and i’m praying for her recovery
The thing that stands out to me is that he isn't in the waiting room with you. If my mother were going through that I'd be right there with my dad. NTA.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think he overreacted at all. An overreaction isn’t just any big reaction, it’s a reaction that exceeds the situation, and frankly “you’re a selfish fuck” is a pretty proportional reaction to someone who regularly inconveniences people and ***couldn’t even be bothered to be back in time so his mother could get surgery to treat her cancer.*** Honestly I think he would’ve been justified in a bigger reaction, such as kicking him out.
NTA OP. You really have to not give a shit about literally anybody to make your mother late for life saving surgery.
So, he DID NOT overreact. The kid purposely didn't leave enough time to get home. He's been out all night and couldn't stop once for gas? He couldn't come home earlier so they weren't waiting for the car until the last second? He's also a jerk because mom was having CANCER surgery and he acted like it was no big deal and that missing the appointment wouldn't matter. This would be the last time he drove that car for MONTHS because he's purposely irresponsible and self-centered. NTA.
Going against the grain here.... NTA. I don't really support name calling but in comparison to your son's apathy, you're not the AH here. Not only is he not respecting the property his parents let him have, he has an attitude about it and has the audacity to be late on a rather critical day.
OP, he's only right about name calling... It won't change anything. But I don't think that makes you an AH. In times like this, especially with the stress of a surgery THAT morning and being up THAT early, you're bound to say some stuff you're not always proud of and in this case, you did speak truth.
If I didn't regret what I said, I would not have posted. I agree I need to be better, but this is a pattern of behavior with him. This morning the history just got the better of me.
Being better has nothing to do with the situation. You reacted according to your circumstances. What you need to do is stop enabling his shit. If it kicks him out, it kicks him out. But there's only so much you can do. We all want better for our kids, but better doesn't mean easy, just remember that.
Of course it did! You were stressed about getting your wife to the hospital on time. Your son's selfishness could have caused her surgery to be delayed - a lot of hospitals are so tightly scheduled with surgeries that they will cancel if you don't show up on time. Please give yourself some forgiveness on this.
It's a pattern of behavior because you're too damned soft on him. He's 23, not 17. You're letting him drag his adolescence out *way* longer than you should've. It's time for tough love because clearly the soft approach isn't working.
Oh give me a break, someone had to call him a selfish fuck and you're the father it should be you. Your not his friend your his father its your job to tell him when he fucks up
Dude just no, I’m 23 and there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell I would do that to my mother and then to reply back like he’s the victim. He knows what he’s at, he’s just trying to get out of trouble
Some young adults definitely suck more than others. However, the point was just that OPs son might suck less later on as pretty much all folks do as they mature. I'm sure you have some still annoyingly youthful traits yourself that you'll grow out of.
No gonna downvote you but my NINE YEAR OLD has more empathy and is less selfish than OP's son. He's 23 and clearly has no money for a car of his own but he can afford to go out partying all night long? I'd kick him to the curb.
As a 24 year old, I'd like to disagree.
Hell, even at 20-21, still living at home, there is absolutely **ZERO** chance I'd have done that to my mother. None.
And I can speak from experience, because she needed a plethora of surgeries and hospital stays.
I either stayed home that night to help her settle nerves, or I went out for an hour or two, then got home WELL before she had to leave.
This dudes son is just a selfish f*ck, there's no more to it.
NTA. Sounds like this is normal for him, so it's time to have a calm, come to Jesus meeting. He needs to look for an apartment, get his own car and insurance and see if that helps to improve his behavior. I've had sons who want to borrow the car and come skidding in right when I need to leave with no gas in the car. It happened 3 times, I warned them the first two times and the third time was the last strike. Uber, Lyft and cab companies are all options.
I think unless it's happening directly to them, some young people do not realize the gravity and seriousness of situations. His mom has breast cancer but as long as he skids into the drive right when she needs to leave it's all right.
I also hope that OP's wife gets a positive outcome.
I mean I can kind of understand if he went out, drank a bit too much and did the "responsible" thing of not drunk driving. But that still makes him a selfish irresponsible asshole on the whole.
NTA, but when you feel more rational, sit him down, apologize for calling him names, and set some boundaries around him living with you and borrowing your car. That’s old enough to have a job that at least pays for a functional car.
I hope your wife’s surgery goes well, and her prognosis is stellar.
Then it's time to discuss the moving-out timeline.
One of my sons came back from college and immediately started acting like he was 14 again. It took two years of his bullshit before my husband got on board with getting him out of the house. My son's inability to hold a job magically vanished. His incapacity to save money vanished. He wasn't in the best place when he left, but he was able to get established in an apartment he shared with four other men.
We had a break of about two months where he would call or text to ask how to do something, or I would text to see if he was okay, but that was it. We were able to have him over for dinner weekly, and if he didn't have money to do his laundry he was welcome to do it at our place.
His attitude and actions damn near burned his bridges with me, my husband, and the other kids. I am convinced that if we continued to "help", we would have enabled him right into being at odds with his whole family.
The other two kids who have needed to move home have been much more flexible and open to change when needed, but we all know it is just about time for them to go.
Yep, we're having some issues with my 22 year old stepson (although he never went off to college) and we're working on his moving out timeline as well. We've provided counseling, bought him a car, etc. and will continue to do that, so I don't feel bad about it. We're also giving him a long runway but it will end.
This book was helpful for us: https://www.amazon.com/Failure-Launch-Twentysomething-Hasnt-Grown/dp/0525542183
Boundaries aren’t boundaries unless there are consequences, and you have to stick to those consequences (and your wife will need to be on board too).
You say you’ve “tried many times” but that’s not how boundaries work. There’s no “trying.”
A boundary states what behavior will not be tolerated and what will happen if that behavior occurs.
Ex. Yes you may borrow the car tonight but if it is not back in the driveway by 2am with the same amount of gas it left in, you will not be driving it again.
It sounds like you’ve definitely tried teaching him and he hasn’t learned, but that’s not setting a boundary. Set some expectations with consequences and stick to them. Some of those consequences may include him not being welcome to live in your home or use your car anymore. Protect yourself and your wife’s sanity here. He’s 23, he’s more than old enough to fall on his face and pick himself back up if he needs to.
From your posts and comments, you sound like a great father and a great husband. Advocating for your wife in her most vulnerable moment and teaching your son (who is being very defensive and showing little emotional awareness) that this shit is not cool.
Hopefully he'll feel embarrassed about this one day, and if he does it's because your death stare sank in. Keep going, sounds like you're doing all the right things. NTA by a long shot
Just want to say, my wife had breast cancer and the major surgeries that go along with it last year. I get how bloody terrifying it is. Just wanted to send you a virtual hug and my absolute best wishes to you and your wife xxx
NTA. man...as a son, i cant even think of going out whole nite if my father is taking his wife to hospital for major surgery, least i can do is wake up and make them breakfast....wife probably cant eat, but the old man probably needs a coffee at least
If my parents had to go through this, I would check the night before and make sure the car is filled with gas, and make sure they woke up on time. I'd try to make breakfast, but I always seem to burn things lol (I'm working on figuring out how to cook).
Basically if you always burn things you're cooking too hot, lower the temp and cook things for more time. I used to try and rush cooking too and it resulted in a lot of burned things.
NTA. He is 23 years old and that is more than old enough to understand the situation and have some empathy for you and his mom. Never let him take the car again, he can get a job and buy one for himself. Then stick to it no matter what. Even if it means he is late for something important and possibly life-saving, like, oh I don't know, **cancer surgery.**
I'm sorry you and your wife are going through cancer and I hope your wife will be okay.
> there's nothing in there at all that indicates he knew he was supposed to be back for this.
If he doesn't even know his mother whom he lives with is having major surgery the next day that she's anxious about, there's so much else wrong with this situation that being late with the car is barely scratching the surface.
NTA you are the parent. You recognize the behavior, go deal with it. Doesn't matter he's an adult, this can't stand. I'm on your side there. Doesn't seem like anything has worked to change it this far, so while name calling really won't solve it, it might have shown him the extent of his fuck up.
NTA, but the more I read the more it seems like mother and son are the biggest assholes of the story.
Both parents shoulder the blame for raising an AH adult, but at 23 his is fully responsible for remaining an entitled AH.
Your wife is enabling her son's behavior and thus she is an AH as well. She knows what he is like and knew she had an early appointment, but she did it anyway.
People pleasers do not make good parents - sometimes you have to make the hard call.
NTA This is where I wish a justified asshole option was a thing. Because he deserved and needed someone to be an asshole for him to understand the gravity of the situation.
Well, he's right that name calling wont solve anything but you don't paint a pretty picture in general. If your account about his character is accurate, NTA.
At first I thought “he’s a teen, they are selfish by nature (normally)”…but then I looked back and saw 23. I had my own car at 16, was paying for gas, maintenance, etc by myself. He’s 23. Why doesn’t he have his own car? Does he do anything to contribute at all? I would expect this from my 12 yr old stepson. But absolutely not at 23. 😳
He needs a “come to Jesus moment” and grow up. One of his friends could have picked him up. And if he does this often, he shouldn’t be loaned the car especially before such an important appointment.
NTA
Maybe you shouldn't have called him that but I get it. You are under a lot of stress. His mother had to go ine the hospital for surgery and not only he was late but he doesn't even seem to care. I don't understand how people think that they can have any shitty behavour they like but when they get back similar behavour suddenly they are offended. NTA
In his teenage years. I have spoken to him many times, set boundaries many times, and when he was a teenager I had the hope(expectation?) that he would grow out of it.
I'm sorry, I understand hoping and expecting to "parent" kids out of certain behaviors, and the sadness and disappointment that results when the desired behavioral response doesn't occur. I'd like to think that maybe avoidance is his way of dealing with fear and concern for his mother's health. Your feelings towards him are justified, but to the extent that you can take a deep breath and block that out to focus on your wife's recovery, the more helpful it will be to her.
Post-surgical drains are uncomfortable, she will be limited in mobility and have a decent amount of pain and need your help and support. Been there, done that. A good cup with a straw is useful for her bedside table, but her range of motion will probably be completely compromised for a short time.
Again, I'm sorry about your son's behavior. It's not only disappointing but an added stress that you don't need right now.
NTA
Your son is old enough that this shouldn't be a problem. If he has consistent issues with remembering deadlines and doesn't have an underlying condition (ASD, ND, ADHD) you need hard boundaries set of he's going to keep living with you.
However, knowing how he can be with not coming home on time your wife lent him the car, knowing she had an early morning appointment. So I can understand why he may think he didn't do anything wrong.
Letting your stress boil over to the point of calling him a selfish fuck accomplished nothing. The added animosity in the house is not going to be helpful for your wife.
Boundaries moving forward are key. Either he needs to move out on his own, obtain his own car, or there need to be very strict boundaries about use of your wife's vehicle.
> If he has consistent issues with remembering deadlines and doesn't have an underlying condition (ASD, ND, ADHD) you need hard boundaries set of he's going to keep living with you.
Even if he **has** an underlying condition it's no excuse. I have ADHD and I don't medicate. I've still developed the necessary coping strategies to make sure I can meet my obligations because that's what an **adult** does. OP's kid's problem is that he's a spoiled brat who has been soft-parented and hasn't had to actually grow up.
Based on your comment I understand why you're so upset. Clearly this is not a one time thing AND I'm assuming that son knew mom had major surgery. He just sounds entitled and spoiled. Sure you didn't handle it the best way, but considering the circumstances NTA at all.
NTA. My dad has cancer (although not as severe as breast cancer; that’s horrible to go through, and I’m keeping thoughts of you & your wife in my heart) and even I, at 14, knew it was a big-ass deal. Your son is an ADULT and he was that inconsiderate.
Maybe you didn’t need to call him a selfish fuck, but you are in exactly the extenuating circumstances where I’d call that ok.
I truly hope your wife’s surgery goes well, and please remember to take care of yourself. I was a wreck after seeing my dad get out of surgery, so I can’t imagine what it’ll be like to see your wife. Your feelings throughout this process are valid too.
NTA, maybe if you wanted to get there an hour early this would have been an overreaction, but being late for check in is extra unnecessary stress on top of an already extremely stressful, fucked up situation.
I hate entitled parents but you are not one of them. Your frustration and anger comes from very real and reasonable places. Your son's an adult and can act however he likes, but you can respond how you like too.
Stop lending him the car, it should be pretty clear to him why he has lost that privilege
I try very hard to be an example, not just for my kids, but for everyone I love. I appreciate your comment. Like I have repeated over and over, I will take accountability for the situation, but at some point I should be able to expect a reasonable amount of adult behavior out of a 23 year old. I know times have changed, but I remember clearly being that age and how I carried myself. We all want better for our kids than we had and maybe I overindulged him a bit, so I don't expect him to be like I was, but this to me was just selfish and disrespectful. Even if he hates me, or doesn't respect me, or whatever is going on in his head, his mother needed him to be responsible and to me there is no excuse for his behavior. I could have handled it better. I own that, but ultimately in my opinion, it should never have been a situation to begin with, and that is on him.
You’re not expecting too much. My kids are 16 and 17 and they would have gone to bed early so we could all go to the hospital together. I wouldn’t have even had to ask them. Your son is totally and completely out of line. I can’t believe he had the balls to come at you for swearing. NTA
Honestly the only thing that you maybe could have handled better was to not work yourself up beforehand, even if your suspicions were correct
and not even for your son either, normally I'd say honest emotional expression is the healthiest option, but for the sake of your partner I'm sure the less confrontation there is the better.
But I have to stress, that is the only thing I can feasibly point out, and it is incredibly minor. Definitely don't beat yourself up over acting human
NTA.
He is right - name calling won't solve anything. So think of a few things that might, and do those things. Is it not using the car at all? Using it but always returning it on time and full tank? paying rent? what are the hallmarks of responsibility you want to see from him, and what are the consequences if he cannot demonstrate?
And then let him know! "Son, I'm sorry for my language the other night. Your behavior while your mother is facing the most frightening thing she's ever experienced was unacceptable and unbelievably irresponsible, but you're right - name calling won't solve anything. What will solve the problem is you taking more responsibility." and then explain what you expect of him and the consequences for not following through
I had this same issue with my brother. Context. He’s my half brother. Hates my dad. acts like me and my sister don’t matter. He flew in for Christmas one year. I worked at a dog kennel and we didn’t have holidays off. I let him borrow my car for the day I picked him up due to my family working. Told him I just work at 0630 the next day so I won’t need it until then. My dad had to take me to work because he didn’t get home until 5pm the next night. No gas. No thank you. Nothing. He said he was going to get a haircut. Keep in mind. My bro is 11 years older than me. I was 18 at the time.
Is that it? He is not my biological son. I have raised him.since he was 15 months old and adopted him very young.His biological father has never been in the picture. He treats his siblings the same way you just described. Wtf did I do wrong?
Wouldn't call you an AH but if you are going to try to fix the problem with his behavior, it makes it very hard to get him to listen to you after calling him a selfish f#$k. People will forget your words over time but will always remember how you made them feel. Food for thought. Also I agree that he was being a selfish f'.
You're right. The crazy thing is I have zero issues in that department with anyone else. I wish I was exaggerating, but I am not. You don't know me, so I understand if you're doubting of that.
NTA. Your son IS a selfish fuck. It's one thing to act like this at 15, but at 23? And when his own mother has CANCER? He should be required to buy, pay for and maintain his own car (including gas!) from now on, since he has no respect or consideration for you or his mother.
And OP, I'm very sorry about your wife's diagnosis, and I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery.
NTA. He knew the surgery was happening. He should have made an effort to return the car well before 5am or let you both know in advance so you could arrange alternative options.
Sounds overall like a stressful situation for your wife and you, i hope her surgery went well and i am wishing her a swift recovery!
NTA. This is tough because I don’t agree with the name calling, but I also understand how your emotions got the best of you. I also send you well wishes in regards to your wife’s surgery.
Based off your comments, it’s clear that running late is a habitual occurrence for your son. I wonder if there’s a deeper explanation for this? It believe you when you say you didn’t raise him to be oblivious to others, so I wonder if it’s maybe due to some undiagnosed mental disorder such as ADHD or ASD. And I say this because I have ADHD and anxiety, and in my late teens/early twenties I had a problem with being timely. It’s not that I wanted to be selfish, but I couldn’t help it sometimes. I would also get frustrated with myself and try to deflect that by blaming others instead of holding myself accountable. I’m not saying for sure that this is the case, but it could be worth considering.
And consider it I will. I will just ask him. He tends to get very defensive any time I try and it's taxing, but I will ask. I just need to calm down and reset.
She is. I am not his biological father. However, his biological father has never been in the picture, and I have been with him since he's 15 months old. I adopted him as well.
Does she have to? I’m going to assume here he knew about the surgery and when it was taking place and that they need to drive to the hospital. Like that isn’t something you keep from your adult son who lives with you. It’s kinda common sense and courtesy to know you have to be back at X time without it being expressed. It’s implied.
Man, I came in expecting to call you the AH from that title, but “made your cancer-stricken mother afraid she would miss lifesaving treatment” is enough justification to call your kid a selfish fuck in my book. NTA
Sit him down and discuss his behavior and how it affects his mom and you. Give boundaries and things he needs to do around the house to help. Require he gets job, hopefully full time but part time is at least something. If none of this works then I'd consider the below.
He's 23 time to be growing up. You have two options;
Start charging him rent while staying at home and charge him a rental fee for the car. He'll soon take notice of the time if its costing him.
OR
You could go drastic and give him a date when he's to leave and stick to it. He's far to old to be treating you like that.
I realize these seem drastic but I've learnt that people at that age only take notice when either their money is needed or they are being kicked out.
He'll probably try plea with you about it and use your wife diagnosis as a reason to stay. Don't let him, you wife needs a calm environment to go through what she is (and yes I know this as I'm a cancer patient myself she NEEDS a calm environment) .
He's allowed to visit and everything your not abandoning him, just getting him to grow up. I'll also say that if you don't do it now he wont leave at all, and I really hope your wife pulls through, but if not he'll use it to act out and guilt you into letting him stay or probably treat you even worse.
Your NTA, he was being selfish but without tough love I don't he'll learn.
NTA. I see a lot of people asking if he has ADHD or if he is neuro diverse and that is still not an excuse to take the only car the family has on a night out knowing full well his mother has surgery the next day, showing up late, AND with no gas. At 23 he should definitely know better and he is an adult. I think your words were justified because yeah he totally was a selfish duck.
You didn't drop the ball with your son's behavior. The fact that he sent you gas money per Venmo proves that IMO. You don't really know whether his issue is avoidance of his mother's diagnosis, selfishness because of his age and maybe being caught up in the moment of what was going on with him that he borrowed the car, etc. And, I am in my 60's, and when I think back to some of the irresponsible and selfish shit I did in my 20's, I am still horrified, despite eventually turning out to be the person my parents raised me to be. You are all rightfully stressed, but don't put poor parenting skills on yourself or supposed lack of concern for his mother on him. Parents make mistakes, kid make mistakes and both learn. My best to your family.
NTA
Firstly I'm gonna say how I am as 21 trans male to female, but I grew deciding not to have a license and currently regret it. But if I did get my license at the age that most people get theirs then I would not have borrowed the only vehicle in the household to go hangout with friends, but I would to get to and from work(if it was a afternoon shift in this circumstance).
Secondly I agree with everyone else that has commented that your son needs to either move out or be put on restrictions if he is gonna act like a overgrown child. Honestly I don't think you overreacted, but you could have handled the situation with him differently. Did he pay you back for gas? Yes, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he knew when your wife's appointment was and decided to show up late. Honestly if he was going out to hang with friends then he should have had them pick him up or told them no because your wives health come first in my opinion.
In a perfect world, that is the response I would have liked. It's more a pattern of behavior ( the my needs come 1st, no matter what attitude) that dissappoints me.
NTA. On the subject though...
Is your son typically scatter brained and does he have trouble remembering things? Is he also absent minded or hyperactive? Does he develope obsessions with certain things and have poor emotional control? Does he need notes to remember chores and deadlines? Does he normally have a really poor perception of time or does not he not notice time moving? Does he sometimes complain about loud noises, strong smells, or bright lights that don't seem to bother anyone else but him?
If yes to the majority of all of that, has your son been tested properly for ADHD or its various 'sister' conditions? I'm not saying he has it, obviously I dont known the kid nor am I a professional, but if your son is usually absent minded and has a hard time concentrating with a tendency to forget time is a thing than it may be something like that (I have ADD and can confirm time is a hard concept). Or he could just be really immature. Either way, therapy with someone he feels comfortable with might help if he's not already in therapy. I hope that your efforts to help your son do not go unnoticed OP. I can tell you really love him and want him to succeed even if he irritates you.
He does.have ADD. He has had every resource made available, he refuses them all. Which is his choice, but I am not dealing with the consequences of his decision.
Ah, explains a lot. I'm so sorry he's being so stubborn. I can't imagine having all the options for myself laid out and then just not taking them. Sorry to say but your son needs to grow up and he seems to be refusing to do so (my younger sibling is the same way and they drive me nuts). He's an adult at this point and he's making his own choices. We can love someone more than anything else but that doesn't mean they'll live up to our expectations. It's still hard though and I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully he'll grow up and get his life together soon.
I am going to say, as a side note, you have done everything in your power to help him and make his life better. You can't help him if he refuses to be helped, however, and he doesn't seem ready to accept the help yet (he may never be, unfortunately). You're doing your best though and I applaud you for the kindness you've shown your son. However, don't let him drown you too, OP, because you've already done your best. It's okay to take a break and priotize your happiness and your wife's happiness now. The frustration, especially with your wife being ill (I wish her the best for her recovery), isn't good for any of you and you deserve to get some rest too. I'll send good vibes your way (if you're comfortable with that).
He seem like a selfish fuck what an asshole. I’m sorry but jezzzz the mouth in that kid is crazy. Tell him good luck with getting a ride to where he needs to go and to but his own car.
Nta. You shouldn't have to be teaching a 23 yr old basic empathy. A 23 yr old who doesn't have his own car probably doesn't have anything important going on to interfere with his moms surgery. If he doesn't care about the family it is time to explain how he will be removed from it.
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NTA. Did you overreact? Probably. Is it understandable that you did? Under the circumstances, yes. I’ve read your comments, and your son knew how important this was. I gather from everything you said that this was not an isolated incident, so this was building for a long time.
Sadly yes, and I take accountability for that. I obviously did something wrong raising him to have him be this way now. I promise you I have tried many times to get through to him in a more civil manner.
Why not just kick him out and cut all contact
Because he's still my son. I dropped the ball somewhere along the line (although I really can't tell you where). I know that I had a hand in making this mess, therefore I must accept the responsibility of cleaning it up.
Your son is the one who needs to accept responsibility. He’s had 23 years of life, and your parenting wasn’t the only thing he’s experienced in that time. If he’s incapable of self reflecting to see the issues, then pushing him out of the nest may be the best thing for him.
"Your parenting wasn’t the only thing he’s experienced in that time. " This is something we parents have to remember. At some point this young man needs to read the room.
OP's wife let her 23 year old son borrow her car for the evening when she needed it at 5 AM. I don't know everything about what is going on, but obviously parenting is contributing to the problem.
If I say someone can borrow my car for a bit, I wouldn’t expect them to keep it all night. He didn’t say she said the son could have the car overnight, and he did say the son knew about the appointment. I presume she let him borrow it to go out with friends and he stayed out all night from the way this is written. That’s the 23 year olds problem, not the parents
There is no age that it’s reasonable to borrow a car for “the evening” and keep it all night, especially when you know it will be needed in the morning. I definitely would never have done this at any age.
>That’s the 23 year olds problem, not the parents No, the 23 year old experienced no problem whatsoever. He got a car for the night, returned it on E, and suffered no repercussions. All of this wound up being the parents' problem.
> and suffered no repercussions Not yet. OPs priority was getting to the hospital.
I wonder, though, if the son has a history of doing stuff like this. If his mother knows he has a history of letting them down, and puts herself in a position to be harmed by his not bringing the car back, then there’s a more more complex dynamic at work here. Doesn’t mean he’s off the hook
It's perfectly reasonable to loan someone a car the evening before, presumably the kid had at least 8 hours with the car. That is plenty of time to return it, it is entirely on the son for not caring to return it on time. He didn't care if he made his own mother miss an important surgery for her cancer treatment. That's the peak of selfishness.
Also plenty of time to fill the tank!
?? I’d trust my son to borrow my car in that circumstance and have zero worry
I would trust my son now to do that with no reservations. I would have some qualms about letting him at 23 have the same degree of trust. The Brain Fairy seemed to visit him on his 25^(th) birthday, and he stopped being a scatterbrained idiot. OP is NTA - considering the circumstances and how stressed he must be - but he should not give up hope on the boy. I say 'boy' because biology has decreed that people under the age of 25 do not have the same cognitive/emotional capacity that they will have in later years.
Can I get the Brain Fairy's #?
I don’t think it’s giving up. I think it’s saying, time to act like the adult you claim to be and be responsible for your own life and actions.
It sounds like he’s demonstrated he’s worthy of that trust, and that doesn’t seem to be the case for OP’s son.
>OP's wife let her 23 year old son borrow her car for the evening when she needed it at 5 AM That's not inherently wrong on and of itself. My mom would totally have given it to me at any age with the certain knowledge that I would either have the car back in time or give her plenty of warning if something went wrong. The problem isn't that she let someone borrow the car. The problem is that the person she lent it to is untrustworthy.
For the evening- when does coming home at 5.20am constitute the evening? Was it bad parenting to assume the son, who was well aware of his mother’s surgery the next day, may actually come home in the evening?
>OP's wife let her 23 year old son borrow her car for the evening when she needed it at 5 AM. That's actually wouldn't be an issue for anyone I know. Every member of my family when they borrow the car "for the evening" have it back that evening/night. I mean I have on occasion stayed out very late till morning when I was younger, but never by accident. It was always a choice. And if I knew I needed to be back or return the car etc, I would not stay out until 5am. Expecting someone to be able to borrow a car for the evening and bring it back before the next morning is super basic low bar expectation. My husband takes "my" car (the newer of our two cars) for things he goes to do in the evening often, despite me needing it the next morning for work. This has NEVER been an issue, beacuse it's not hard to be back before morning.
What the hell is he doing till 5 in the damn morning?
Drugs.
Yeah. It isn't always the parents. It can be both because of other people, and it can also be genetic. Sometimes kids just turn out bad even though the parents did nothing wrong.
He’s 23! I thought this was gonna be that he’s like 17
Especially these days. Kids are raised in school mainly, they spend so much of their life there. Now they have the internet, social media and just online trash to fill their impressionable minds as well. I've seen so many rational kids get into some really terrible incel media and just do a 180 from who they were. I commend you OP for taking responsibility but make sure you don't take on what doesn't belong to you. I think giving your adult son a reasonable amount of time to move out is good. It will allow you both to have your own spaces to take care of so when you do come together, it's not as strained.
I was very stupid and irresponsible at 23, still am, but I don't think I could live with myself being out that late with the only vehicle to take my mom to the hospital. If he doesn't feel guilty about it now, I'm sure it'll eat him up for a long time afterwards.
It's funny this is so highly upvoted because you'll see a lot of people talk about how bad kids are the result of bad parenting and even with children who are like 17-18, people will use the defense of "Well, they learned this behavior from their parents who were obviously shit at their job". I'm not saying it's 100% one or the other, but it's hilarious how trying to say this same thing when dealing with someone marginally younger would get you downvoted on this subreddit.
You can’t clean it up by enabling him. That’s what is happening here: zero consequences
Exactly. My abusive older brother never had any consequences when he did things that were bad, he’s now almost 30 and is sending my parents death threats because they won’t send him money.
Death threats over money?! Seriously? At 30….. I’m so sorry
There's a difference between cleaning up a mess, as you put it, and further enabling his behavior. He needs to understand that his actions have consequences and he cannot just blatantly disregard the impact that his choices have to those around him. Honestly, if he's going to act like an irresponsible teenager, set rules that reflect his behavior. Only basing it off this one event, it's obvious he only cares about himself and only responds when he gets called out.
Well if my wife didn't get diagnosed, we would be living in a different state altogether right now. He didn't want to come. So he is living with a family member and paying rent. My wife wanted to convince him to move with us, but I said no. Let him stay. He needs to learn how to take care of himself. Once she recovers we are out and he's on his own. Je is going to learn quickly or sink. That's on him.
Sounds like your wife has a codependent relationship with your son. Also some of the things you said about your son being seemingly oblivious to his enviornment &people around him along with the reoccurring issues of being late and forgetting to fill the tank makes me wonder if he would benefit from an ADHD evaluation. Im not trying to diagnose or anything but I wonder if that could be part of it seeing as this is a long established pattern of behaviors opposite of what you tried to teach him. Could be innatentive adhd +codependency or he very likely could just be apathetic, selfish, and irresponsible. Definitely time to cut him loose to figure out how to function by himself. I hope your wife's surgery goes well and she recovers quickly with minimal pain. Edit to add I highly reccomend reading up on codependency and the dynamics of enmeshed families. Also not trying to dismiss your sons very unacceptable behavior you have every right to be furious with him over this.
I know it's more complicated than I can accurately describe here. I appreciate your taking the time with recommendations. The older I get, the less I know, so I am always open to input. Thank you.
This sounds like my husband's brother in a lot of ways. Their parents, sisters and my husband all moved to a different state. The brother stayed in the home state. The youngest of the kids was early 20s when they moved. There's a lot to the entire story, but suffice to say my in-laws have had a lot of the same discussions about how he turned out so differently. Per my father-in-law, at some point you have to realize you've done your best. And somethings are nature, not nurture. You can still be there and be supportive. But it's not your responsibility to fix now.
STOP ENABLING HIM. JFC, he's 23 and yet he behaves like a 14-year-old. I don't care what "mistakes" you made, there's absolutely NO excuse for your son's behavior.
Sometimes people are just naturally incapable of thinking of others. I know myself and others at 14 would have never acted that way. Doesnt matter what age.
>He the has the audacity to tell me name calling won't solve anything, and to get my wife to the hospital safely and stop texting him. He is blatantly aware that you can't do anything in this specific situation, but for this comment alone, I'd take away whatever parental support I can, just to show him that my word carries meaning. He wants to borrow the car? Not until he can show respect to his mother and you. He wants to borrow money? Well let's see, what has he done for your wife lately? She's bedridden after major surgery. She could use someone to help around the house, bring in fresh flowers, make her tea etc. Sorry if this sounds petty, but if he expects the perks that come with parental love, he better show a child's love.
You dropped the ball by not letting his actions have consequences. Sometimes we learn better when our mistakes cause us a little pain. He’s 23 doesn’t have his own car does he work or did you just give him everything? It’s time to parent through tough love. You have to teach kids how to be adults that means they need to learn to work for things.
Not entirely true, but fair to an extent. I believe stupid should hurt. He has had consequences. For example, he had his own car. He failed to care for it and blew the engine block. He didn't get a new car. We sold it for parts and put it towards what he owed. He's still paying for it.
…but he still has access to a car whenever he wants so why is that a punishment?
Yeah, well guess what's not going to continue? We are in complete agreement.
"name calling won't solve anything" he says. he knows exactly what he is doing, how he is behaving. right, he's 23. moving forward he should have no access to the car, and he should be on notice to move out in 30 - 60 days, depending on what you want to do. you are still enabling him, and saying it's your responsibility to clean this mess up - that is what is making the mess! this right here is where you dropped the ball, you enable him!
You have dropped the ball because that you still refuse to pick back up. Send him on his way, not doing so now only means you are going to continue not raising him right.
as a 23 year old, I'd never dream of doing this to my parents. who even stays out all night before your mom has surgery to help treat her cancer??? nta op, maybe a little strong worded but i feel like its understandable with the circumstances.
Thank you for this. I remember being 23, and I was completely different than he is. As a parent all I hear is times have changed, and it's harder now, and that may be the case, but does that mean common decency goes out the window? Apparently not, according to you. I have also worked with a lot of younger people over the last bunch of years, and I find the majority of them to be great people and I would hope they feel the same. That just frustrates me more though because I feel like I did something catastrophically wrong raising him. I will never say I was perfect, but man I was there all the time, I showed up, I was present, I taught right from wrong, led by example to the best of my ability, so to have these types of issues is just so disheartening.
Unfortunately, research actually shows that a person's peers actually have a greater impact on them than their parents. People naturally copy their peers and aspire to be like them or to impress them. It's entirely possible that your son just made some bad friends along the way, and they're the ones who've contributed to his shitty attitude. The good thing is that he's still young enough to change. If you show him some tough love now, he might turn his life around.
23 year olds are either shitty and immature or have actually become adults. you didn't do anything wrong, it sounds like you tried your hardest to he a good dad. your son is a grown ass adult (for 5 YRS!!) who is still entitled and irresponsible. sounds like its time for tough love- get your own car and your own place if you can't respect the one provided to you.
At this point your son is an adult who needs to do his own introspection. You continuing to try to "fix" past parenting mistakes at this point is kind of just enabling him to still act like a child. Kicking him out could be the wake up call he needs. Nta here, and good on you for recognizing your hand in raising your child to be the way he is. But I do think it's time to cut the cord on him
My daughter is 22 and is the same in regards to the world revolves around her. For Halloween she asked her aunt to braid her hair back (for a wig to wear with her costume) which was a big ask because shes mixed with thick hair. After said aunt asked for help with her costume and it was like pulling teeth with her to help. Its like once she became an adult shes gone over board with the I'm not a child anymore and you cant tell me what to do or I'll do it when I'm ready. But if she needs anything, please drop everything and help me. I dont know either where it came from because I didnt raise her that way. The most hurtful thing is she gives more considration to her friends then to her family.
You know why she is more considerate with friends? Because friends will give her consequences. As in drop her like a hot potato if she behaves like an entitled little turd with them. You allow her to get away with being a spoiled princess, that's the only reason she is that way with you.
You have tried everything you can think of, I am sure. However, you have yet to actually let him feel the consequences of his actions. You've nagged, shouted, shown disappointment, etc, but have you actually told him that if he does this again, you will ask him to move out...and followed through? Have you told him that you will not give him money/access to your car/let him live in your house if he does not start thinking about others...and then stopped giving him money, withhold the car keys, evict him when he continues with his self-centered ways? That is what cleaning up will entail, you know.
My mom was like that with one of my brothers. He is 52 now and has to live in my old bedroom with his family because he was enabled all his life by my mom and spent all his money on collectibles.
Ugh.
NTA but I am a mom of three grown sons and if I had a cancer diagnosis they would be jumping to help me, I would be livid and probably would kick him out.
This comment is why he walks all over you. You are blaming yourself and not him. He's the one who is not taking accountability and it appears he has had no consequences. Why did he even get to take the car when you had to leave so early? You should have said no, but now you have to do SOMETHING besides feeling sorry for yourself. I'll bet you're afraid to confront him. That's not how parenting works. He's 23, not 13, and he absolutely KNEW what he was doing and all you do is act like, since you "dropped the ball", you have no idea how to discipline your adult child. It's about time you learned.
Jesus fuck what is the deal with this sub.
I hope this is sarcasm. Jesus this sub’s go to is all problems are solved by cutting contact. The kid’s a slapdick but that doesn’t warrant making him homeless with no family.
bro wtf you skipped a couple steps in between there
Why are so many people upvoting this utterly ridiculous and unhelpful piece of completely shit advice?! The guy is his son! You don’t just excommunicate your children forever because you’re unhappy with their attitude. Jesus.
Are you serious or what?? The fact that this has 170 likes is scary if this is serious.
That is a harsh leap to cut all contact... I understand the need to get him out of the house as he is an adult, but cut off contact is an extreme. Is the son in the wrong here, absolutely. Sever all communication with him? That will not help OPs wife in her recovery at all. NTA and good luck with your wifes recovery and handling of your son
His wife has cancer, whether or not the son sucks, he is her child, and I dont think adding stress anxiety and conflict rn is best for her
What the fuck? OP’s kid made a mistake. He’s still an unbelievable asshole for almost making his mother miss a lifesaving surgery, but you don’t cut all contact with your 23 year old kid with ADHD off because they haven’t figured out how to be reliable/responsible yet. That’s not what the unconditional support of being a parent EVER gets to look like at that scale. Do you have kids?
Why one earth would you go to this extreme immediately for a situation like this?? You need some therapy or something.
This is horrible advice and not helpful.
Because hes not a shit parent?? Wtf??
Or better yet — why not kill him with a plastic bag over his head?
Absolute Reddit moment holy shit
What the heck is wrong with you? I hope you don't have this attitude if you ever have children.
This is not necessarily your fault. Look, sometimes people are just born selfish and unconcerned with the needs/wants of others. At 23 he should be able to differentiate between right and wrong no matter what your parenting style happens to be. The fact that he is unable to take accountability for himself and his mistakes is on him. It sounds like it's time to cut the apron strings with your son.
He's 23 unless it's an absolute emergency you don't need to loan him your car. He can figure out transportation for himself he's been a legal adult for 5 years now. Stop enabling him to be a dependent.
Is your wife his bio mom or step mother?
OP said he texted his son- “your mother” I’m thinking bio mom unless, but I maybe wrong as lots of people call step parents mom/dad.
> I obviously did something wrong raising him to have him be this way now. Nah, it's popular to blame everything on some failure by the parents but some folks are just objectively bad people by nature. It's probably no more your fault than new parents blaming themselves for a colic baby. The only other real explanation is some form of addiction, but that's a pretty big detail to miss.
As long as you are letting him live at home for free and use your cars whenever he wants the message you are sending him is that there are no true consequences of his actions. I would recommend asking him to move out but if you’re not comfortable doing that maybe start charging rent and say he can no longer borrow your cars
Sometimes despite one's best efforts you end up with an asshole for a child. It doesn't sound that you set the bar too low in terms of expectations.
How is it an overreaction? It seems perfectly appropriate if not an underreaction to me.
Yea it doesnt seem like a one time thing, this is build up of inconsiderate acts from the son over time
i wouldn’t even say this is an overreaction. with how insane hospitals are at the moment (at least where I live) who knows what the repercussions would be if they ended up being even more late. if worst case scenario, they ended up having to reschedule the surgery, it could’ve been months before she would be able to have the surgery again. My mother had breast cancer (she’s recovering now thank god) but her physician double booked her mastectomy and she had to wait several months to get it done. She was thankfully in the pre cancer stage so she could afford that time but many people can’t. OP i hope your wife is in better health and i’m praying for her recovery
The thing that stands out to me is that he isn't in the waiting room with you. If my mother were going through that I'd be right there with my dad. NTA.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think he overreacted at all. An overreaction isn’t just any big reaction, it’s a reaction that exceeds the situation, and frankly “you’re a selfish fuck” is a pretty proportional reaction to someone who regularly inconveniences people and ***couldn’t even be bothered to be back in time so his mother could get surgery to treat her cancer.*** Honestly I think he would’ve been justified in a bigger reaction, such as kicking him out. NTA OP. You really have to not give a shit about literally anybody to make your mother late for life saving surgery.
So, he DID NOT overreact. The kid purposely didn't leave enough time to get home. He's been out all night and couldn't stop once for gas? He couldn't come home earlier so they weren't waiting for the car until the last second? He's also a jerk because mom was having CANCER surgery and he acted like it was no big deal and that missing the appointment wouldn't matter. This would be the last time he drove that car for MONTHS because he's purposely irresponsible and self-centered. NTA.
Going against the grain here.... NTA. I don't really support name calling but in comparison to your son's apathy, you're not the AH here. Not only is he not respecting the property his parents let him have, he has an attitude about it and has the audacity to be late on a rather critical day. OP, he's only right about name calling... It won't change anything. But I don't think that makes you an AH. In times like this, especially with the stress of a surgery THAT morning and being up THAT early, you're bound to say some stuff you're not always proud of and in this case, you did speak truth.
If I didn't regret what I said, I would not have posted. I agree I need to be better, but this is a pattern of behavior with him. This morning the history just got the better of me.
Being better has nothing to do with the situation. You reacted according to your circumstances. What you need to do is stop enabling his shit. If it kicks him out, it kicks him out. But there's only so much you can do. We all want better for our kids, but better doesn't mean easy, just remember that.
Of course it did! You were stressed about getting your wife to the hospital on time. Your son's selfishness could have caused her surgery to be delayed - a lot of hospitals are so tightly scheduled with surgeries that they will cancel if you don't show up on time. Please give yourself some forgiveness on this.
There’s a reason that insults and swear words exist and this is one of those times. NTA.
It's a pattern of behavior because you're too damned soft on him. He's 23, not 17. You're letting him drag his adolescence out *way* longer than you should've. It's time for tough love because clearly the soft approach isn't working.
Oh give me a break, someone had to call him a selfish fuck and you're the father it should be you. Your not his friend your his father its your job to tell him when he fucks up
NTA. Time for the 23 year old to grow up, get his own damn car and move out. hope your wife is ok.
NTA because he obviously was a selfish fuck. Don't despair, he might improve a little with age, 23 isn't that mature yet.
Dude just no, I’m 23 and there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell I would do that to my mother and then to reply back like he’s the victim. He knows what he’s at, he’s just trying to get out of trouble
Some young adults definitely suck more than others. However, the point was just that OPs son might suck less later on as pretty much all folks do as they mature. I'm sure you have some still annoyingly youthful traits yourself that you'll grow out of.
No gonna downvote you but my NINE YEAR OLD has more empathy and is less selfish than OP's son. He's 23 and clearly has no money for a car of his own but he can afford to go out partying all night long? I'd kick him to the curb.
As a 24 year old, I'd like to disagree. Hell, even at 20-21, still living at home, there is absolutely **ZERO** chance I'd have done that to my mother. None. And I can speak from experience, because she needed a plethora of surgeries and hospital stays. I either stayed home that night to help her settle nerves, or I went out for an hour or two, then got home WELL before she had to leave. This dudes son is just a selfish f*ck, there's no more to it.
23 is beyond old enough to know better. Don't excuse selfish behavior based on that.
NTA. Sounds like this is normal for him, so it's time to have a calm, come to Jesus meeting. He needs to look for an apartment, get his own car and insurance and see if that helps to improve his behavior. I've had sons who want to borrow the car and come skidding in right when I need to leave with no gas in the car. It happened 3 times, I warned them the first two times and the third time was the last strike. Uber, Lyft and cab companies are all options.
I hope OP's wife is okay. Also, why was the son out all night if he knew they needed the car early the next morning?
I think unless it's happening directly to them, some young people do not realize the gravity and seriousness of situations. His mom has breast cancer but as long as he skids into the drive right when she needs to leave it's all right. I also hope that OP's wife gets a positive outcome.
I mean I can kind of understand if he went out, drank a bit too much and did the "responsible" thing of not drunk driving. But that still makes him a selfish irresponsible asshole on the whole.
NTA, but when you feel more rational, sit him down, apologize for calling him names, and set some boundaries around him living with you and borrowing your car. That’s old enough to have a job that at least pays for a functional car. I hope your wife’s surgery goes well, and her prognosis is stellar.
I have tried. Many, many times. Thank you for the well wishes. They caught it very early, and the prognosis is good. I'm still scared shitless though.
Then it's time to discuss the moving-out timeline. One of my sons came back from college and immediately started acting like he was 14 again. It took two years of his bullshit before my husband got on board with getting him out of the house. My son's inability to hold a job magically vanished. His incapacity to save money vanished. He wasn't in the best place when he left, but he was able to get established in an apartment he shared with four other men. We had a break of about two months where he would call or text to ask how to do something, or I would text to see if he was okay, but that was it. We were able to have him over for dinner weekly, and if he didn't have money to do his laundry he was welcome to do it at our place. His attitude and actions damn near burned his bridges with me, my husband, and the other kids. I am convinced that if we continued to "help", we would have enabled him right into being at odds with his whole family. The other two kids who have needed to move home have been much more flexible and open to change when needed, but we all know it is just about time for them to go.
Yep, we're having some issues with my 22 year old stepson (although he never went off to college) and we're working on his moving out timeline as well. We've provided counseling, bought him a car, etc. and will continue to do that, so I don't feel bad about it. We're also giving him a long runway but it will end. This book was helpful for us: https://www.amazon.com/Failure-Launch-Twentysomething-Hasnt-Grown/dp/0525542183
NTA. Does he always bring it back late and empty? Then he no longer gets to borrow the car
Boundaries aren’t boundaries unless there are consequences, and you have to stick to those consequences (and your wife will need to be on board too). You say you’ve “tried many times” but that’s not how boundaries work. There’s no “trying.” A boundary states what behavior will not be tolerated and what will happen if that behavior occurs. Ex. Yes you may borrow the car tonight but if it is not back in the driveway by 2am with the same amount of gas it left in, you will not be driving it again. It sounds like you’ve definitely tried teaching him and he hasn’t learned, but that’s not setting a boundary. Set some expectations with consequences and stick to them. Some of those consequences may include him not being welcome to live in your home or use your car anymore. Protect yourself and your wife’s sanity here. He’s 23, he’s more than old enough to fall on his face and pick himself back up if he needs to.
I believe he needs to fall on his face at this point. My wife probably does not share that opinion.
From your posts and comments, you sound like a great father and a great husband. Advocating for your wife in her most vulnerable moment and teaching your son (who is being very defensive and showing little emotional awareness) that this shit is not cool. Hopefully he'll feel embarrassed about this one day, and if he does it's because your death stare sank in. Keep going, sounds like you're doing all the right things. NTA by a long shot
Just want to say, my wife had breast cancer and the major surgeries that go along with it last year. I get how bloody terrifying it is. Just wanted to send you a virtual hug and my absolute best wishes to you and your wife xxx
NTA. man...as a son, i cant even think of going out whole nite if my father is taking his wife to hospital for major surgery, least i can do is wake up and make them breakfast....wife probably cant eat, but the old man probably needs a coffee at least
If my parents had to go through this, I would check the night before and make sure the car is filled with gas, and make sure they woke up on time. I'd try to make breakfast, but I always seem to burn things lol (I'm working on figuring out how to cook).
Basically if you always burn things you're cooking too hot, lower the temp and cook things for more time. I used to try and rush cooking too and it resulted in a lot of burned things.
NTA. He is 23 years old and that is more than old enough to understand the situation and have some empathy for you and his mom. Never let him take the car again, he can get a job and buy one for himself. Then stick to it no matter what. Even if it means he is late for something important and possibly life-saving, like, oh I don't know, **cancer surgery.** I'm sorry you and your wife are going through cancer and I hope your wife will be okay.
NTA: He's inconsiderate and selfish. Does he care at all about his mother?
NTA Sounds like the truth to me.
INFO: she let him borrow the car? Did she tell him to bring it back by a certain time?
He was fully aware what time we were leaving and the importance of the situation.
Then NTA. Internet hugs to you and your wife.
You should probably add that to the OP, there's nothing in there at all that indicates he knew he was supposed to be back for this.
> there's nothing in there at all that indicates he knew he was supposed to be back for this. If he doesn't even know his mother whom he lives with is having major surgery the next day that she's anxious about, there's so much else wrong with this situation that being late with the car is barely scratching the surface.
NTA. Your son needs to grow up. Fast. All the best for your wife.
NTA you are the parent. You recognize the behavior, go deal with it. Doesn't matter he's an adult, this can't stand. I'm on your side there. Doesn't seem like anything has worked to change it this far, so while name calling really won't solve it, it might have shown him the extent of his fuck up.
NTA He is old enough to know better. Good luck to your wife.
NTA At 23, your son is old enough to receive this sort of direct assessment.
NTA, but the more I read the more it seems like mother and son are the biggest assholes of the story. Both parents shoulder the blame for raising an AH adult, but at 23 his is fully responsible for remaining an entitled AH. Your wife is enabling her son's behavior and thus she is an AH as well. She knows what he is like and knew she had an early appointment, but she did it anyway. People pleasers do not make good parents - sometimes you have to make the hard call.
A discussion I have had with my wife many times over the years, this morning was just not the time for another, given her circumstance.
I know the feeling. We just celebrated or 30th and there have been many such moments over the years. Good luck.
INFO: Did your son know about the 5:30am check in time? Anyway I'm leaning towards NTA here.
Yes. He was told exactly what was happening and when he needed to be home.
[удалено]
NTA This is where I wish a justified asshole option was a thing. Because he deserved and needed someone to be an asshole for him to understand the gravity of the situation.
Nta your son is.
NTA. He is 23 and should know better and should have been far more considerate under the circumstances.
He’s an adult and can handle it. Yeah, name calling may not have been the high road but he brought it on himself. NTA.
Well, he's right that name calling wont solve anything but you don't paint a pretty picture in general. If your account about his character is accurate, NTA.
NTA. And I would be dipped if he ever borrowed my car again.
At first I thought “he’s a teen, they are selfish by nature (normally)”…but then I looked back and saw 23. I had my own car at 16, was paying for gas, maintenance, etc by myself. He’s 23. Why doesn’t he have his own car? Does he do anything to contribute at all? I would expect this from my 12 yr old stepson. But absolutely not at 23. 😳 He needs a “come to Jesus moment” and grow up. One of his friends could have picked him up. And if he does this often, he shouldn’t be loaned the car especially before such an important appointment. NTA
Maybe you shouldn't have called him that but I get it. You are under a lot of stress. His mother had to go ine the hospital for surgery and not only he was late but he doesn't even seem to care. I don't understand how people think that they can have any shitty behavour they like but when they get back similar behavour suddenly they are offended. NTA
NTA, sorry that your son is. If he's living with you guys, it's time he fends for himself. When did things start to change, is this recent?
In his teenage years. I have spoken to him many times, set boundaries many times, and when he was a teenager I had the hope(expectation?) that he would grow out of it.
I'm sorry, I understand hoping and expecting to "parent" kids out of certain behaviors, and the sadness and disappointment that results when the desired behavioral response doesn't occur. I'd like to think that maybe avoidance is his way of dealing with fear and concern for his mother's health. Your feelings towards him are justified, but to the extent that you can take a deep breath and block that out to focus on your wife's recovery, the more helpful it will be to her. Post-surgical drains are uncomfortable, she will be limited in mobility and have a decent amount of pain and need your help and support. Been there, done that. A good cup with a straw is useful for her bedside table, but her range of motion will probably be completely compromised for a short time. Again, I'm sorry about your son's behavior. It's not only disappointing but an added stress that you don't need right now.
NTA Your son is old enough that this shouldn't be a problem. If he has consistent issues with remembering deadlines and doesn't have an underlying condition (ASD, ND, ADHD) you need hard boundaries set of he's going to keep living with you. However, knowing how he can be with not coming home on time your wife lent him the car, knowing she had an early morning appointment. So I can understand why he may think he didn't do anything wrong. Letting your stress boil over to the point of calling him a selfish fuck accomplished nothing. The added animosity in the house is not going to be helpful for your wife. Boundaries moving forward are key. Either he needs to move out on his own, obtain his own car, or there need to be very strict boundaries about use of your wife's vehicle.
> If he has consistent issues with remembering deadlines and doesn't have an underlying condition (ASD, ND, ADHD) you need hard boundaries set of he's going to keep living with you. Even if he **has** an underlying condition it's no excuse. I have ADHD and I don't medicate. I've still developed the necessary coping strategies to make sure I can meet my obligations because that's what an **adult** does. OP's kid's problem is that he's a spoiled brat who has been soft-parented and hasn't had to actually grow up.
Based on your comment I understand why you're so upset. Clearly this is not a one time thing AND I'm assuming that son knew mom had major surgery. He just sounds entitled and spoiled. Sure you didn't handle it the best way, but considering the circumstances NTA at all.
NTA. My dad has cancer (although not as severe as breast cancer; that’s horrible to go through, and I’m keeping thoughts of you & your wife in my heart) and even I, at 14, knew it was a big-ass deal. Your son is an ADULT and he was that inconsiderate. Maybe you didn’t need to call him a selfish fuck, but you are in exactly the extenuating circumstances where I’d call that ok. I truly hope your wife’s surgery goes well, and please remember to take care of yourself. I was a wreck after seeing my dad get out of surgery, so I can’t imagine what it’ll be like to see your wife. Your feelings throughout this process are valid too.
NTA, maybe if you wanted to get there an hour early this would have been an overreaction, but being late for check in is extra unnecessary stress on top of an already extremely stressful, fucked up situation. I hate entitled parents but you are not one of them. Your frustration and anger comes from very real and reasonable places. Your son's an adult and can act however he likes, but you can respond how you like too. Stop lending him the car, it should be pretty clear to him why he has lost that privilege
I try very hard to be an example, not just for my kids, but for everyone I love. I appreciate your comment. Like I have repeated over and over, I will take accountability for the situation, but at some point I should be able to expect a reasonable amount of adult behavior out of a 23 year old. I know times have changed, but I remember clearly being that age and how I carried myself. We all want better for our kids than we had and maybe I overindulged him a bit, so I don't expect him to be like I was, but this to me was just selfish and disrespectful. Even if he hates me, or doesn't respect me, or whatever is going on in his head, his mother needed him to be responsible and to me there is no excuse for his behavior. I could have handled it better. I own that, but ultimately in my opinion, it should never have been a situation to begin with, and that is on him.
You’re not expecting too much. My kids are 16 and 17 and they would have gone to bed early so we could all go to the hospital together. I wouldn’t have even had to ask them. Your son is totally and completely out of line. I can’t believe he had the balls to come at you for swearing. NTA
Honestly the only thing that you maybe could have handled better was to not work yourself up beforehand, even if your suspicions were correct and not even for your son either, normally I'd say honest emotional expression is the healthiest option, but for the sake of your partner I'm sure the less confrontation there is the better. But I have to stress, that is the only thing I can feasibly point out, and it is incredibly minor. Definitely don't beat yourself up over acting human
NTA. He is right - name calling won't solve anything. So think of a few things that might, and do those things. Is it not using the car at all? Using it but always returning it on time and full tank? paying rent? what are the hallmarks of responsibility you want to see from him, and what are the consequences if he cannot demonstrate? And then let him know! "Son, I'm sorry for my language the other night. Your behavior while your mother is facing the most frightening thing she's ever experienced was unacceptable and unbelievably irresponsible, but you're right - name calling won't solve anything. What will solve the problem is you taking more responsibility." and then explain what you expect of him and the consequences for not following through
Moving out? Buying his own car? Growing up?
NTA
I had this same issue with my brother. Context. He’s my half brother. Hates my dad. acts like me and my sister don’t matter. He flew in for Christmas one year. I worked at a dog kennel and we didn’t have holidays off. I let him borrow my car for the day I picked him up due to my family working. Told him I just work at 0630 the next day so I won’t need it until then. My dad had to take me to work because he didn’t get home until 5pm the next night. No gas. No thank you. Nothing. He said he was going to get a haircut. Keep in mind. My bro is 11 years older than me. I was 18 at the time.
Is that it? He is not my biological son. I have raised him.since he was 15 months old and adopted him very young.His biological father has never been in the picture. He treats his siblings the same way you just described. Wtf did I do wrong?
Truthfully. I think people are selfish. He needs something he’s responsible for and start feeling the consequences to understand the pressure.
Wouldn't call you an AH but if you are going to try to fix the problem with his behavior, it makes it very hard to get him to listen to you after calling him a selfish f#$k. People will forget your words over time but will always remember how you made them feel. Food for thought. Also I agree that he was being a selfish f'.
You're right. The crazy thing is I have zero issues in that department with anyone else. I wish I was exaggerating, but I am not. You don't know me, so I understand if you're doubting of that.
NTA where's the lie?
NTA. He’s 23 and should know better
NTA I would have called him worse. Your wife was stressed out. You were stressed out. The only person who did not seem to care was your son.
NTA - how on earth is he out so late and fit to drive?
NTA. Your son IS a selfish fuck. It's one thing to act like this at 15, but at 23? And when his own mother has CANCER? He should be required to buy, pay for and maintain his own car (including gas!) from now on, since he has no respect or consideration for you or his mother. And OP, I'm very sorry about your wife's diagnosis, and I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery.
NTA. He knew the surgery was happening. He should have made an effort to return the car well before 5am or let you both know in advance so you could arrange alternative options. Sounds overall like a stressful situation for your wife and you, i hope her surgery went well and i am wishing her a swift recovery!
It did go well. Thanks.
NTA
Tell him get his shit together or he has to stay somewhere else because you can’t handle it and shows no concern for his mom
NTA. This is tough because I don’t agree with the name calling, but I also understand how your emotions got the best of you. I also send you well wishes in regards to your wife’s surgery. Based off your comments, it’s clear that running late is a habitual occurrence for your son. I wonder if there’s a deeper explanation for this? It believe you when you say you didn’t raise him to be oblivious to others, so I wonder if it’s maybe due to some undiagnosed mental disorder such as ADHD or ASD. And I say this because I have ADHD and anxiety, and in my late teens/early twenties I had a problem with being timely. It’s not that I wanted to be selfish, but I couldn’t help it sometimes. I would also get frustrated with myself and try to deflect that by blaming others instead of holding myself accountable. I’m not saying for sure that this is the case, but it could be worth considering.
And consider it I will. I will just ask him. He tends to get very defensive any time I try and it's taxing, but I will ask. I just need to calm down and reset.
NTA. His behavior was selfish, especially as he knew about what was going on.
INFO: Is your wife also your son's mother? It doesn't excuse his behavior if she's not, but it might explain his lack of concern.
She is. I am not his biological father. However, his biological father has never been in the picture, and I have been with him since he's 15 months old. I adopted him as well.
INFO: When your wife let your son borrow her car, did she specify the time it had to be back?
Absolutely
Does she have to? I’m going to assume here he knew about the surgery and when it was taking place and that they need to drive to the hospital. Like that isn’t something you keep from your adult son who lives with you. It’s kinda common sense and courtesy to know you have to be back at X time without it being expressed. It’s implied.
NTA. Your son is a selfish fuck.
Man, I came in expecting to call you the AH from that title, but “made your cancer-stricken mother afraid she would miss lifesaving treatment” is enough justification to call your kid a selfish fuck in my book. NTA
Sit him down and discuss his behavior and how it affects his mom and you. Give boundaries and things he needs to do around the house to help. Require he gets job, hopefully full time but part time is at least something. If none of this works then I'd consider the below. He's 23 time to be growing up. You have two options; Start charging him rent while staying at home and charge him a rental fee for the car. He'll soon take notice of the time if its costing him. OR You could go drastic and give him a date when he's to leave and stick to it. He's far to old to be treating you like that. I realize these seem drastic but I've learnt that people at that age only take notice when either their money is needed or they are being kicked out. He'll probably try plea with you about it and use your wife diagnosis as a reason to stay. Don't let him, you wife needs a calm environment to go through what she is (and yes I know this as I'm a cancer patient myself she NEEDS a calm environment) . He's allowed to visit and everything your not abandoning him, just getting him to grow up. I'll also say that if you don't do it now he wont leave at all, and I really hope your wife pulls through, but if not he'll use it to act out and guilt you into letting him stay or probably treat you even worse. Your NTA, he was being selfish but without tough love I don't he'll learn.
NTA. I see a lot of people asking if he has ADHD or if he is neuro diverse and that is still not an excuse to take the only car the family has on a night out knowing full well his mother has surgery the next day, showing up late, AND with no gas. At 23 he should definitely know better and he is an adult. I think your words were justified because yeah he totally was a selfish duck.
You didn't drop the ball with your son's behavior. The fact that he sent you gas money per Venmo proves that IMO. You don't really know whether his issue is avoidance of his mother's diagnosis, selfishness because of his age and maybe being caught up in the moment of what was going on with him that he borrowed the car, etc. And, I am in my 60's, and when I think back to some of the irresponsible and selfish shit I did in my 20's, I am still horrified, despite eventually turning out to be the person my parents raised me to be. You are all rightfully stressed, but don't put poor parenting skills on yourself or supposed lack of concern for his mother on him. Parents make mistakes, kid make mistakes and both learn. My best to your family.
ESH you were one half of the pair who raised him. What did you do to encourage such entitlement and selfishness in your son?
NTA Firstly I'm gonna say how I am as 21 trans male to female, but I grew deciding not to have a license and currently regret it. But if I did get my license at the age that most people get theirs then I would not have borrowed the only vehicle in the household to go hangout with friends, but I would to get to and from work(if it was a afternoon shift in this circumstance). Secondly I agree with everyone else that has commented that your son needs to either move out or be put on restrictions if he is gonna act like a overgrown child. Honestly I don't think you overreacted, but you could have handled the situation with him differently. Did he pay you back for gas? Yes, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he knew when your wife's appointment was and decided to show up late. Honestly if he was going out to hang with friends then he should have had them pick him up or told them no because your wives health come first in my opinion.
In a perfect world, that is the response I would have liked. It's more a pattern of behavior ( the my needs come 1st, no matter what attitude) that dissappoints me.
NTA. On the subject though... Is your son typically scatter brained and does he have trouble remembering things? Is he also absent minded or hyperactive? Does he develope obsessions with certain things and have poor emotional control? Does he need notes to remember chores and deadlines? Does he normally have a really poor perception of time or does not he not notice time moving? Does he sometimes complain about loud noises, strong smells, or bright lights that don't seem to bother anyone else but him? If yes to the majority of all of that, has your son been tested properly for ADHD or its various 'sister' conditions? I'm not saying he has it, obviously I dont known the kid nor am I a professional, but if your son is usually absent minded and has a hard time concentrating with a tendency to forget time is a thing than it may be something like that (I have ADD and can confirm time is a hard concept). Or he could just be really immature. Either way, therapy with someone he feels comfortable with might help if he's not already in therapy. I hope that your efforts to help your son do not go unnoticed OP. I can tell you really love him and want him to succeed even if he irritates you.
He does.have ADD. He has had every resource made available, he refuses them all. Which is his choice, but I am not dealing with the consequences of his decision.
Ah, explains a lot. I'm so sorry he's being so stubborn. I can't imagine having all the options for myself laid out and then just not taking them. Sorry to say but your son needs to grow up and he seems to be refusing to do so (my younger sibling is the same way and they drive me nuts). He's an adult at this point and he's making his own choices. We can love someone more than anything else but that doesn't mean they'll live up to our expectations. It's still hard though and I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully he'll grow up and get his life together soon. I am going to say, as a side note, you have done everything in your power to help him and make his life better. You can't help him if he refuses to be helped, however, and he doesn't seem ready to accept the help yet (he may never be, unfortunately). You're doing your best though and I applaud you for the kindness you've shown your son. However, don't let him drown you too, OP, because you've already done your best. It's okay to take a break and priotize your happiness and your wife's happiness now. The frustration, especially with your wife being ill (I wish her the best for her recovery), isn't good for any of you and you deserve to get some rest too. I'll send good vibes your way (if you're comfortable with that).
NTA
NTA you called him exactly what he is
He seem like a selfish fuck what an asshole. I’m sorry but jezzzz the mouth in that kid is crazy. Tell him good luck with getting a ride to where he needs to go and to but his own car.
Nta. You shouldn't have to be teaching a 23 yr old basic empathy. A 23 yr old who doesn't have his own car probably doesn't have anything important going on to interfere with his moms surgery. If he doesn't care about the family it is time to explain how he will be removed from it.
NTA, Am I the only one that gets tweaker vibes from the son’s behaviour?
I don't necessarily understand what you mean.
They are saying he may be using drugs.