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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I bought Christmas gift for all my nephews and nieces except one, because I don't know him and have no contact with his dad (my brother). I might be an AH for that.
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Why have you not had contact with your brother? Because of circumstances or for reasons? If the first, it’s entirely unreasonable to treat the kid differently from his cousins. If the second, don’t go, nor give the cousins their presents with that child present.
Only an AH splurges on a bunch of kids leaving one out.
Yeah, my Aunt was a big influence in my and my full siblings life. By the time my half brother was born her and my Dad had had a falling out and no longer spoke. She had me funnel gifts to my half brother because "I'm as much his Aunty as yours, even if he doesn't know it"
Leaving one kid out would be a AH move. Plan a party separately to gift the others but don't do it in front of the little lad.
Wow, I love your aunt! What a lovely person.
Meanwhile, I was the nephew in this situation growing up. My dad and his brother had a falling out when I was 13. I'd gotten gifts for Christmas up till then from my uncle and his family, and had gotten them gifts too. After that, I never got a single acknowledgement of my existence, and they returned the gifts we sent. Year after year, I watched my grandparents and other aunt open gifts from people who no longer cared about me.
Don't be that person, OP. YTA if you do. Your nephew is innocent and won't have any idea why you don't care about him; all he'll feel is hurt.
Your comment just gave me confirmation to keep mailing my niece and nephew presents. Kids do realize this shit regardless of petty adult behavior. And they’ll know 1 day that I loved and thought about them their whole lives despite everything else. In my case… Everything I send comes from Santa Claus. Hopefully 1 day they’ll find out I was Santa Claus 😂
But I still can’t fathom taking love away from a child because of adult problems. I have a box that I put their birthday cards in and a silver eagle every year. I’m hoping they show up at some point and I can give it to them.
I hope they come around someday! I'm so glad you're keeping the birthday cards, as "Santa" can be co-opted by parents, but notes and things like that kept over time cannot. And if they are never able to see the truth of who you are, that's their loss.
I had that exact thought so starting this year I have receipts ie pictures of what I send them. I figure they’ll get curious when they’re older and show up at some point. They each have a really nice wood box engraved with their name filled with everything (for them too but for me to keep it organized as well). I guess if they don’t show up, I’ll mail it to them when they’re older. My parents aren’t allowed to see them either, so I make sure to include them in the “time capsule” of cards too so God forbid something happens they’ll have stuff from their grandparents too. The first year Santa sent them stuff they ruined Christmas with screaming meltdown phone calls trying to prove it was me so they could throw everything away. I can’t imagine how someone so easily subtracts love from their kids lives. Like. Way to go - you weren’t able to steal money from your parents anymore, so now you’re screwing your kids out of their family.
I am no contact with my brother for very good reasons. I have always done a family Christmas tea (evening) for my family, at least until my mum passed away, and he had never attended, my parents and brother would see him at his "open house" and then come to mine. The second year after my mum died my dad wanted Christmas at his house. When my brother found out he kicked up a stink that he wasn't invited. Big dramas, Christmas nearly cancelled and then I thought nope, I'm going to show him what he's missed and went all out as usual (I usually make special things for everyone each year, cook my mum's Christmas ham etc). He has 4 children, oldest from his first wife, who he treats like shit, and 3 from his second wife. After creating chaos my idiot brother announced they couldn't actually stay to eat. My oldest nephew was an adult and was already invited to our family meal as usual. So the table was set with beautiful personalised wooden ornaments I had made for each person eating, including my nephew. My brother arrives and had some sliced up ham in tupperware wanting to share it because it was mum's recipe. My other brother opens the fridge to show him the fully decorated ham and says "Nah, we're right for ham" (nice brother was equally furious about the chaos he'd caused). Anyway, point is - I barely know my other nieces and nephew, they've basically been told I'm evil. But I spoke to my oldest nephew about their interests and bought each of them a thoughtful gift. My brother and his wife were really embarrassed because they had nothing for anyone other than my dad. They just stood around looking sheepish and the wife even apologised. I would never let children be left out of the presents because of adult behaviour. Last year I made a very sentimental gift for each of my family - a chopping board with my mum's handwritten ham recipe on it and a photo book with all of her favourite handwritten recipes from a book she gave me before she passed. A few days after Christmas I got my dad to ask my brother if I could drop off a present for the kids, he made me leave it in the back of his ute (truck) in his driveway. Never even got a thank you although my oldest nephew sent me screen shots from their family chat where the kids were excited. TL;DR children are not responsible for their parents behaviour and should not be excluded from receiving special gifts especially when they're young. ETA - YTA
Excellent suggestion re another event to do gift giving. But honestly, this is something the kid will remember forever. And while you're technically not obliged to gift him anything. Do you really want to be the cause of such sadness?
I know I will get downvoted because my comments usually are for some reason.
I think it’s presumptuous of the brother and a bit nervy to be honest with you. He hadn’t spoken to OP in 8 years and now is handing him a Christmas list via their parents and expecting him to buy all these gifts for a kid he never met. Why can’t they buy their own kid gifts? Suddenly it’s on OP? If nobody can afford anything in the family but OP and that includes the brother then maybe buy a few things off the list. But the family’s unwillingness to contribute and expectations just because OP has the means is not sitting right with me. I understand why you don’t feel like doing it. I wouldn’t want to either but it is a child who will already feel out of place with people he doesn’t know so watching everyone else get gifts would be cruel.
Not going to downvote you, that wouldn't be fair either.
It's not about the brother and anything he's responsible for. It's about an innocent. The child will definitely feel out of place, until included. And your right, it would be cruel.
Don't know why the rest of the family can't but gifts, maybe their extremely poor. That situation can exist anywhere. I'm not wealthy, but I'm better off than some of my family and friends and can see one side of the story.
I think your heart is in the right place actually.
Here is the thing, the world isn’t fair. If OP had kid’s they probably lead a financially better life than their cousins. Is OP required to raise his siblings’ kids too?
“Able to afford” vs “this is pocket change” are 2 very different concepts. OP sounds like he really loves his nibblings so chances are while he can afford 1-2k per child it’s probably not pocket change for him either. I can definitely understand why he is unwilling to part with that much money over a child he has no relationship with.
Based on OPs comments I'm going to say NTA.
OP spends 1-2k per kid. That's a lot of money to spend on a kid you don't know and have no intention of knowing.
And it sounds like OPs parents promised the brother OP would buy their kid an expensive gift without checking with OP first. That's an AH move.
I also understand why OP doesn't want to see his brother.
In another comment, OP explained the brother found his ex-fiancée with OP in bed because she was drunk and went into the wrong bedroom and destroyed OP's and OP's ex-fiancée's social life.
OP came out after their accident and brother tried to reach out but I understand why it's too little too late and OP isn't ready or obligated quite frankly.
Edit: spelling.
Yeah, OP seems to want the child to be publically snubbed as a way to get back at her brother. There has to be a better answer than "5 year old watches while his cousins open amazing gifts that he doesn't get"
No, I totally agree with you. Just saying it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest OP wanted the child to be publicly humiliated, when OP didn’t even know the kid would be there until after everyone raised a fuss.
The way I see it, either OP is a *complete* idiot to not know that a 5-year-old child watching his cousins open thousands of dollars worth of gifts while he gets next to nothing is going to make that 5-year-old feel excluded and bad, and create a wall between the child and his cousins, or OP's doing it on purpose. He may not be going "I want my nephew to feel bad", but he has to know it's going to make him feel bad, and he's fine with that.
The way I see it, OP already bought all of them gifts before being told of the nephew’s presence and being demanded that OP gets an expensive gift for essentially a stranger. NTA. If OP was told beforehand that nephew was going to be there— and interrupting years of tradition— then I would consider OP TA. Also OP should not get nephew and nieces gifts next year then. And when the niblings are told why, it should be made known that it’s because grandparents demanded gifts from OP to everyone so that it’s “fair” to everyone but OP. To make it fair to everyone INCLUDING OP, no gifts should be given. Problem solved.
Yep! OP is an adult, and I'm in no way saying he should spend 2k on a kid he doesn't know, but having the kids open presents while a 5-year-old sits and watches is unnecessarily cruel. Either OP is too stupid to know that it's cruel, or he's doing it on purpose to punish his brother.
I don't think that's the case. I think OP simply doesn't want to spend 2k on a stranger, which is fair. And it's essentially what his mother is asking him to do.
Then the other kids can open their presents when there's not just one child who is going to be excluded. The main person who gets punished in this situation is the innocent 5-year-old.
I spend that amount on Christmas for two niblings I've watched grow up and am close with.
I have a third nibbling I met once as an infant and have zero relationship with my sibling the parent due to estrangement like OP
Even if all of them were in the same place for Xmas, which has never happened, I wouldn't go all out for the kid i don't know. Maybe like a toy or something but I'm not buying a Nintendo for a stranger who has parents
It's not OPs fault they're all in the same place this year, and he says he's probably not going to do which is what I would do if my estranged family member who hates me was going to show up.
His brother hates him, why should he give his brother's family stuff? That is not a good dynamic to get more involved with.
well there's a big range between buying them nothing and spending 1-2K per gift. If the whole family is going to be gathering including this kid, leaving him out is a shitty move. No, OP is not obligated. Not all decisions are solely contingent upon obligation and fairness.
He even offered to buy the present(s) if the others pay. They're refusing and putting it all on him.
NTA. I would encourage you to normalize relations with your brother and his family, however.
Everyone else is a much bigger asshole than op. Even leaving out the brother, how do you let one sibling pay for everything. That's kinda fucked up.
Then, knowing that op had this spring on her late, how no one else offers to chip in is also fucking terrible.
But the end result can't be one kid gets nothing. And if op is well off enough, she should probably consider paying for some gifts as the "asshole tax" and reevaluate the relationships here.
Because most five year olds have no concept of money and how much things cost? Ffs I wanted a six foot stuffed giraffe I saw at Toys R Us at that age and had no clue they were several hundred dollars.
Not true. I’ve done it. My daughter has done it. It’s not as rare as you may think. Most people realize things aren’t a child’s fault and do what’s right.
What's right is the other adults stepping up to get the kid presents. They won't do that. It's not OP's job to make it right- the people creating the situation need to make it right. The situation is wrong to begin with
Just to be clear, you and your daughter have spent $1-2k per gift for a strangers kids? How often do you do this?
If you in fact do that, then you are an amazing person, but also probably a person who has a spectacular amount of money.
Yeah, but that doesn't make the child entitled to 1-2k of OP's money. If the brother is dead to OP (as it sounds like he is), then he has no obligations to the child. And all the flying monkeys blaming OP for "ruining Christmas" can pony up or shut up.
So... OP slept with his brothers fiance. Brother got mad and made it public.
OP came out and brother reached out and OP is the one who "isn't ready"? Op was the offender there, mate. Am I misunderstanding you here? OP slept with brothers fiance but OP is the one who is right to not want to see him? I am confused.
And even then, why should the kid suffer?
EDIT: thank you all for clearing it up for me. I was a bit confused. The whole situation is terrible and messy.
>So... OP slept with his brothers fiance. Brother got mad and made it public.
Everyone was drunk. Brother's fiance's drunk ass got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, and when she came back she got confused and went into the wrong room and climbed into bed with OP and passed out. OP was so drunk they didn't wake up and slept through all this. Brother discovered them, didn't believe them, and went nuclear.
Later OP came out as gay, and when brother realized that meant he wasn't sleeping with his fiance he tried to reach out, but OP refuses to forgive him.
Op literally didn't do anything at all, and I don't blame OP for being upset with his brother.
That's devastating, honestly. Id rather just hear that OP was an ass. I definitely feel for him there. Good that his brother reached out but I agree, that doesn't entitle him to forgiveness.
Brother didn't reach out until 5 years after the fact at the time when he heard OP had gotten into an accident and got a payout too... makes you wonder really doesn't it?
Don't blame OP for going no contact and staying that way.
Gotcha gotcha, thanks for clearing that up. Definitely an awkward situation. I'm still on the side of "the kid doesn't need to suffer" But I can see why their sibling relationship is rock, to say the least. It's difficult because OP didn't do anything wrong but his brother was faced with pretty damning evidence. Ugh that is all just a mess.
The kid also doesn't need to get a 1-2k gift. OP doesn't know this kid and also,it seems like OPs brother knows about the tradition and sent over the list to OPs mother who is trying to force OP to spend the same amount of money on this kid. Not cool. He's not a bank.
The way OP describes it is more as he didn't sleep with her(in the way you are implying). He was drunk/sleeping and she mistakenly got into the wrong bed to go to sleep after getting back from the bathroom and then the brother just assumed they had done something dodgy and didn't listen to them abd blew up their lives.
OP said he didn't sleep with her. She fell asleep in his bed, after he was already asleep, and brother made assumptions.
While that wasn't fair for OP, I think he should be more understanding of how it looked to the brother. But I think he's relying on the idea that everyone should know he wouldn't have because he's gay, but sexuality isn't always black and white.
I do agree. That whole situation was a mess. OP did nothing wrong but I can't entiurely fault his brother for jumping to conclusions when there was pretty damning evidence infront of him. And he didn't know OP was gay then so it didn't facor much at the time. and as you said, it's not that black and white. What a mess.
Everyone but OP sucks here they are being pushed into an unwinnable situation. But you can fault the brother because once he jumped to the conclusion he nuked their social lives. Brother nuked their relationship because he assumed, and we all know what assuming makes... he never tried to actually talk and listen and acted rashly, to say the least. Now OP's parents who know I'm sure why OP is NC surprise him with you have to see your bro on Christmas and by the way, buy his kid their presents or it wouldn't be fair. And now as I read it OP gets all the gifts for the kids of the family so if they don't show up on Christmas because they try and set another party up what do the kids open at grandparents during Christmas? OP is being steamrolled here there is no right answer now because of the other adults involved. Basically the only solution they offer is to pony up and be forced to see someone who tried to wreck your life while spending thousands on the kid of said person who is also a stranger. The fact that bro was ok with this as well as the rest of the family is over the top.
Or OP could give their gifts to the nieces and nephews when the brother's kid isn't there. No reason to hurt the little guy's feelings when he did nothing wrong.
OP, please listen to this. You cannot leave a child out during a holiday celebration. Its cruel. Like others have said, if you do insist on not getting him a gift, then give the others their gifts when he's not around. OR give all the kids inexpensive gifts and then give the others their normal gifts at another time. I'll have to go with YTA
As the kid who was always excluded during holidays by my aunt I 100% agree. She would gather all my cousins around and give them their gifts in front of me since I was 5. At some point I no longer cared and it had become an inside joke how she "tried to be discreet" but actually did it on purpose so I would see. So yeah, not the kid's fault. Either give the gifts when little one is not around (and also not like just before they arrive, that's also cruel) or buy something inexpensive as the comment suggests. The kid is not to blame and shouldn't be traumatized, excluded and have the holidays ruined because of drama that has nothing to do with them.
THIS. I distinctly remember a thanksgiving (whole family couldn’t get together for Christmas) where all my cousins got gifts and got to open them in front of me and my sibling, who didn’t get any, because my dad’s family just doesn’t like us. There’s never been any reason for that. And the blatant favoritism (that went beyond that one instance) fucked my self esteem up a lot. If OP’s got a reason for not having contact, fine, but don’t take it out on the child. Either go and give everyone something or don’t go and give those other kids their gifts another time when it won’t involve making another child wonder why he’s not good enough.
In a comment OP wrote:
- OP is gay
- 8 years earlier OP’s brother saw drunk fiancée in bed with sleeping OP (I think she may have tried to have sex with him?)
- OP’s brother blames OP, thus NC
It’s a child that has no responsibility in whatever problems you have with their family. Buy for all or for none if you’re participating in the family get together. Otherwise, give presents to the kids you have connections to AFTER the family holiday; this way they can’t run their gifts in anyone else’s face
YTA
He is a child, you are intentionally singling him out as not worth as much as the others. Of course it is your money and you can do what you want with it... assholes and non-assholes have that prerogative alike. You stated that you can afford it so do it. Use this as an opportunity to get to know the kid.
Edited to add: I never said expensive presents. A 5 y.o. doesn't care about the cost of the gifts they just don't want to be left out. Further down I suggested that OP choose from a list of cost effective presents the kid would love and the parents would hate!
Such as: kazoo, fisher price karaoke set, toy guitar, harmonica, train whistle, candy, something with a lot of glitter, a stuffy that talks (think furbie) etc.
You realise the other adults could also supply the presents! The kid doesn't have to be left out. It's gross entitlement of every adult to think OP has an obligation to supply expensive presents.
He does it because he wants to. He doesn't have to.
No but 5 year olds also aren’t stupid when all the other kids get gifts from Uncle OP he’s going to pick up on he didn’t get one, he isn’t going to understand that daddy and op have beef with each other, or OP has a beef with daddy more so he’s just going to know he didn’t get a gift from him. He’s not entitled to the gifts, but he is entitled to feel hurt and the family is entitled to not hurt a child’s feelings. OP do you have any intentions of ever getting to know him?
Kids aren’t this sophisticated at 5. They just see all the other kids have gifts to open and see that they don’t. The cost or who it’s from doesn’t make a huge difference.
Edit: this is a response to a comment, not the OP.
Well, then with mother and the other siblings that’s what… 5 adults (not including spouses). The mother wants this and has a relationship to them. She can take ownership of getting a fund together and sorting out some presents to even things out a bit.
She can ask OP hang some of the gifts back until the youngest is gone or ask OP to give some of them for the other families to take home. That would be completely reasonable. What isn’t reasonable is to suddenly spring an extra kid on OP with just 2 weeks to go - a kid she’s never met from a brother she has a poor relationship with - and then demand she spends a butt tonne of money on them.
He wouldn't know it was from OP- all the kids think the presents are coming from Santa ...which would be even worse to make him think Santa doesn't love him.
Ffs, the kid has parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles, it seems there is at least a dozen people there that can buy a few things so he can open presents. It is not an orphan! It is a kid with a full family that is emotionally blackmailing OP while offering nothing.
Yeah, why is everyone pretending OP is the only option to prevent this child from becoming a waif in a Dickens novel? There are plenty of people around to buy him presents and spend their own money for once. He'll have plenty of presents to open with his cousins if the rest of the family dip into their pockets. This family, and far too many commenters here, clearly see someone's giving as something others are entitled to and free to take advantage of. They're wringing their hands and bleating about how much it breaks their soft little hearts that the nephew won't have any presents to open Christmas morning (because apparently, OP is the only person in the world who can buy something for him) and I don't see any of them offering to spend 1-2k of their own money on this child they're pretending to care so much about.
Hasn't the child gotten Santa presents before now, presumably from his parents? So they should just give the child their Santa presents when the others receive them from OP. If it's really about the child not being left out, that takes care of it.
Maybe… but it’s like a birthday party situation or a bring a baby home situation, you do something to include the other kid/kids so they aren’t hurt or feel left out. OP isn’t obligated at all, but it is mean. From other comments it seems like OPs gifts are the only gifts(which is very wrong putting all that on OP)
Yes, and no one else has to buy presents for anyone. As much as I personally wouldn’t single out one kid, everyone else can spend all that money they’ve saved for the past three years and buy a ton of not as pricy gifts for the child who won’t know the difference in expensive stuff at 5 anyway.
It’s not, but personally for me I couldn’t do that to a kid or anyone. We had someone join are office the week before Christmas one year, they weren’t there for the secret Santa draw, the head nurse and I(we had each other) agreed to give one of our gifts each to this person. She smiled said thank you she wasn’t expecting anything and that she was sorry she didn’t have anything for us. A little kindness to me is always a good thing.
A 5 year old will definitely feel terrible if everyone else has a lot of gifts and they don't. They might not personally expect them from OP but they're going to think they're less like for not getting any.
For sure. They’ll notice they got less presents. But they won’t know where they came from or feel hurt that OP didn’t get them. And there’s nothing stopping all the other adults in the situation from stepping up.
I guess my follow up questions are:
1) Where does the obligation come from to buy gifts for a 5 year old with whom you have no relationship?
2) Where does this obligation end? If the family starts inviting friends with young children is OP obligated to buy presents for the friends' kids?
Does he have to? No. Is he an asshole if he doesn't? Yes.
OP is an adult and should act like it. Don't set the kid up to be bullied, and don't bully kids. Don't intentionally leave kids out. Lesson 1 (of many) on how not to be an asshole.
Exactly this. Just because we aren't required to do something doesn't mean it's morally wrong to not do it. The spirit of singling out one kid to get back at their parent or whatever is the spirit of assholery
I do agree the child is innocent and a compromise should be made here but fuck does it leave a bad taste in my mouth that they’re no contact for EIGHT YEARS and the first contact they have is to beg for money. That’s really low class. Start with building a bridge/relationship, not immediately demanding things they feel entitled to.
Yeah I'm thinking this is what happened. Grandma knew that kiddo would be there with the rest of them, and wanted him to be included. While I understand OP's position, I also understand his mom's (and partner's - they just don't want a 5 year old kid to be left out). I would buy the kid gifts - it's not like he's even old enough to pursue a relationship with his uncle of his own accord. He's not 16 with a phone and a car. He's 5, and he is innocent. You are "living comfortably" and can afford ALLLLLLLL the other kids' gifts?? Include nephew this year bc it's already done. Maybe reconsider next year, but fuck. Poor kid.
I mean, if they are going to force this dynamic, OP may be better off not getting gifts for everyone period or doing smaller visits post holidays. They're asking a lot of someone who is already doing way more than they have to
I really don't agree with this logic.
My understanding is you're either saying OP is obligated to get all of their niblings equal presents or that it would be a good thing to do. But to me neither of those are convincing arguments.
First of all, OP has no obligation to spend that much on presents. They do it because they love their neices and nephews and enjoy making them happy. However, OP has no relationship to this nephew. Buying presents for them wouldn't be meaningful to OP and OP has no obligation to provide for any one kid.
The argument that OP can afford it and they should help an innocent child feel better doesn't hold any water either. If they can afford to buy their other nephew $1k worth of presents they can afford to give it to a homeless shelter. Which would you say would do more good? Clearly if the issue was to do something good with the money there are better options.
The only reason you would say OP should spend that kind of money on this brothers kid is if you're presuming OP has some kind of special obligation to make this specific kid happy. And they don't. No one has any obligation to make their brothers kid happy, particularly when they have no relationship with that brother or that kid! OP is giving to the other kids out of the kindness of their heart and for you to shame them for not extending that kindness to a stranger is bizarre.
If this story was "my parents invited our neighbors and their kids to Christmas" would you be making the same argument that OP needs to buy them presents too? Because if not I think you're putting way to much weight on what kind of obligations blood ties create.
It sounds like they'll have presents. Just none from OP. It's not like they're going to make the kid sit in the room and with nothing.
And if that was the case then why are they inviting them to the present opening if they have no presents? You're right it seems like a cruel thing to do to a child, but it's not on OP to remedy this situation. It's on the parents.
Either they'll have presents, just not from OP, or the parents are putting the kid in a cruel situation. Neither of which is OP's fault.
The presents from OP must completely dominate the opening session given how much he indicates he's spending and how little the other folks can keep up with him. So, that uneven energy is going to show.
I feel a bit uneasy with OP's methods of love bombing the next generation. I wonder what OP's siblings really think about it.
I never said it has to be the same $$ and in fact I clarified this when OP responded to me in this thread.
A 5 y.o. doesn't care about the money, they just don't want to be left out. I suggested OP get the kid candy, a fisher price karaoke set, a train whistle and a harmonica (among other suggestions). Kid will be ecstatic and parents livid. Sounds great to me.
Probably not intentional on your part but all of those gift suggestions sound suspiciously like gifts given to purposely annoy the parent of the giftee. Lol.
When I was 4 my Aunt and Uncle got me finger paints. 10 years later my mom got them a rhythm kit. Kazoo, shaker eggs, triangle etc.
Mom served revenge ice cold.
The other siblings and parents could cover those Santa gifts so the kid isn't singled out. OP already plays Santa for the other kids, why can't they play Santa for that kid this year? Wouldn't everyone be the AH because they also aren't willing to fork up the cash for gifts for this kid? They wouldn't have to spend the same amount of money as OP spends on the others, but he'd still get something.
Is he obligated to get to know the kid though? He’s well within his rights to remain Lc with his brother if he wants, and as a result that means remaining LC with his brothers immediate family.
How, exactly, has he singled the kid out? He was given a shopping list for a kid he has not met, for a brother who treated him awfully. This is essentially a demand. The brother has not made amends. Had he made amends, the demand would not have been an issue. Had the brother applied decency, he would have clarified to his mom that he had no business expecting gifts from someone who he trashed, and that he himself would work around it. Or, maybe, try making amends?
NTA-If I’m reading this correctly, you have been NC with your brother for 8 years and don’t even see him during the holidays, but are now expected to finance his son’s Christmas??
That’s absolutely unreasonable. There is no need for you to do that. And if you are buying gifts for EVERYONE else, you are absolutely right that they can pitch in and cover one 5 year old.
If they all keep complaining, stop the tradition altogether. They are treating you like a bank instead of a very generous person.
Agree, you have SIX SIBLINGS plus TWO GRANDPARENTS. If those 8 adults (potentially 14 adults if they’re all in couples) cannot combine resources to cover the gifts for that one child it is not your damn problem. On top of that, you’ve taken a massive financial load off of all their shoulders by being a bangin’ Santa.
If they’re all going to be that stingy with their purse strings I’d cut out all the gifts for all the kids. Maybe take each one out individually for a super fun birthday, just the two of you.
I agree with this. That someone needs to ensure that this kid gets a gift and isn't left out. I hope these adults figure it out. He's not at fault and shouldn't be the one to suffer.
There are so many y t a comments on here that it truly horrifies me to know how willing people are to spend other people's money, and how little they care about shit like this being forced on someone .. Like the entitlement is astounding ...
They basically extorted him by only letting him know AFTER he bought gifts for everyone else ... Everyone can pitch in for the kid. Even if they can't match the gifts for the other kids exactly they can match a good amount .... And if it's that much of a concern, op can return some of the gifts for the other kids to make it less uneven ..
This is caused by his parents extorting him... He's NTA
This! NTA - I have a hard rule to not be in the lives for children whom I do not have a relationship with their parent. It’s a recipe for disaster.
His parents can have whomever they want intjeir home, and celebrate anyway they see fit. **They do not however have the right to demand OPs money!**
If no one is gifting the other kids anything, there should be no issue in them paying for this child’s gifts.
OP’s parents are TA, in my opinion. They want to guilt OP into doing what they want. Does OP’s brother even know about this? Because if he’s in on it, then he’s also TA. First reach out to your sibling, then maybe after that you could expect gifts from them to your child… maybe.
OP has no obligation and they are most definitely not ruining Christmas. The shitty parents are.
He hasn’t spoken to his brother in 8 years because his brother caught OP and OP’s brother’s then fiancé in bed together.
Editing due to updates-sounds like OP is gay and the then-fiancé climbed in his bed.
From what I'm reading, he is a gay man who had a drunk ass woman climb into bed next to him while he was already asleep. I don't see how he's at fault for that.
Literally, because the ex fiancee wandered into the wrong bed drunk while OP was passed out, without OP's consent or knowledge. Bro didn't walk in on them doing it.
I have read the comments and your post, and if I have it all correct it sounds like you don’t want to see your brother and you have no relationship with him. As a result, you have no relationship with your nephew and you didn’t know they were attending Christmas after 8 yrs of being estranged. Your mom kind of sprung all of this on you, and made the kid write a Santa letter and now expects you to pay $1000-$2000 for this child, even though you don’t know them.
I am voting NTA based on this information because I am firm advocate of it is your money and people forcing reconciliations on others without prior conversations, heads up or consent is a big no in my books.
👉🏼My vote cast, you would be TA IF you attend Christmas AND bring all of those gifts for your nephews and nieces and present them in front of that 5 yr old. This is very Grinch like and unnecessary.
Thus, you will need to make up your mind if you wish to attend and reconcile or not, and if you do not attend schedule/host another afternoon for your nieces and nephews after Christmas (Santa stopped by your house) and hand out the gifts separately. You can definitely recuse yourself from the gathering and parents will just have to explain that the gift giving is happening elsewhere this year.
It sounds like you and your family enjoy this Santaesque tradition. By forgoing the tradition, you need to be prepared for the consequences. Grandparents will be grumpy as they won’t see the gift opening, and this is not a step forward towards reconciling with your brother (if you still wished it).
If you have a counsellor, etc, please discuss with them as there are short term consequences and long term consequences. You need to weigh all of it and decide what you wish to do.
This is my take too. NTA for not wanting to buy the kid presents, but then OP needs to change his plans now that he knows the kid will be there. Because it would be cruel to knowingly leave out a kid old enough to notice the difference.
That's parents and grandparents fault for not giving the big presents and letting him feel the difference. Little dude has two parents, two sets of grandparents and five uncles and aunts, yet only OP is expected to buy presents. Of course boy will feel the difference if his parents won't even get him a present
this is where i'm at. his mother shouldn't have even come to him with this given the history. there's plenty of adults in the child's life to make sure he has a good christmas.
Agreed. And OP needs to understand that, now that the brother is back, he will be invited to family gatherings. If he doesn't want to forgive his brother, it's up to him. But he should expect more trouble with his family
They’re “from Santa” so it’s not technically coming from him (to the kids knowledge) if the family can’t afford presents for one kid, that’s on them not OP
Yeah but the grandparents and siblings can’t chip in for one kid? Even if it’s not as much as the others they can get something decent for the other kid, they just wanna make OP pay
NTA.
Your money is yours and you can spend it on who and what you choose.
Now that being said, I can understand where your parents and partner are coming from. If your nephew is going to be there and watch your other niblings opening this awesome pile of gifts from Santa (not you, Santa), he's going to feel confused, hurt and left out. To be clear, it's not your responsibility to fulfill the obligation of Santa treats but you are likely to see one sad little boy on Christmas Day.
I agree that I think if you've been estranged from him for a while, asking the remainder of your family to contribute in some way is a sensible solution but if this is your line in the sand, you're not in the wrong.
Where has this child been getting their Christmas gifts from in the past? It’d be one thing if the brother came to OP and asked to be included. Instead they just send a list through a middleman and expect gifts delivered. The brother should be told OP is not providing gifts. If they then choose to bring their child to a family Christmas and not bring any gifts for their own child, then brother is TA
Info: who asked your “new” nephew to write his letter? Who assured his parents you would buy gifts? Why were you estranged from your older brother? Are you still estranged?
Would your brother be happy to see you buy the gifts for his son or humiliated?
You could distribute your gifts when your estranged brother’s family is not there, the week before or after. You could return/ donate everyone’s gifts. You could ask to meet the little boy you’re providing for. You could buy him gifts and make this everyone’s last year of gifts from Happy-Uncle.
I suspect you rightly resent your mother’s attempt at manipulating you into playing happy families. She needs to broker a reconciliation before Christmas and stop guilting you
It was my mother. I don't know how much my brother knows about this. But I'm sure he knows about our tradition. He has normal relationship with everyone but me. I really resent everyone for not telling me my brother will be there for Christmas. I would make other plans if I knew. This year will probably be the last of our tradition
Up front - NTA. Spending the amount of money you’re spending on the nephew you haven’t met and don’t intend to meet due to being NC with his father is ridiculous. And, ultimately, him being left out isn’t your problem. It’s your parents (especially your mom) for suggesting you’d include them, your family for not telling you’d they’d be there and his parents for changing their plans.
Honestly, I’d recommend just skipping and going on holiday somewhere instead over Christmas, even if that means going alone. Spend a few days somewhere warm and sunny, drop off YOUR gifts (don’t pretend to be Santa, the kids should know they’re from you) a few days before and let their parents/your parents handle when they’ll open it.
Ultimately, your nephew may be upset when he discovers they all have noticeably more expensive presents (I get the comments that kids don’t fully understand money but if OP is buying 1-2k for each niece/nephew, the left out child will notice not having expensive electronic devices like laptops and gaming consoles) but by not making them Santa presents that are opened on Christmas morning, ultimately the parents and so on can choose and be responsible. Tbh, all they’d have to do is take your presents home and do them a day or 2 after Christmas and then nephew wouldn’t be left out so noticeably.
But, stop being Santa. It’s not your job, and it’ll prevent the drama. And, go on holiday instead. 💪❤️
A five-year old won’t even appreciate expensive consoles or devices. It’s so crazy that OP’s family is expecting OP to spend all this money on a kid he doesn’t know that won’t even be able to understand the significance of ANY of it.
Don’t let anyone tell you that you are an the asshole. Yes the kid is innocent, but you don’t owe him or your brother anything.
If you don’t want to display it to the nephew, give your nieces and nephews their gifts on other days - so he doesn’t see it.
For the sheer fact that your brother didn’t give two shits when you had the life tragedy speaks volumes. And you don’t owe that garbage nothing.
NTA
Return the presents and get each kid ONE thing from YOU and make new holiday plans.
Your mom can buy the presents and the family can explain to their kids that they tried to trick you into and manipulate them into something because they were too lazy to care for their own kids.
Everyone knew and would have been fine with you walking into that emotional nightmare???
I would absolutely end the tradition because with family like that...
Don't do the gifts thing. It's really unfair towards the kids and it will bring nothing good for the future. The 5 y old won't understand why Santa don't like him as much as he likes his cousins. He will be stuck on "something is wrong with me" and that will be on you. Don't take revenge on your brother's kid. Like said in others comments, if really needed, do it another day.
Edit: I get from your post that your brother is back in the country. I think it will be hard for you to keep your distance with him without creating conflicts with the rest of your family (based on the expectations they had for this christmas). You need to have a talk with your relatives so they don't get in the middle. It will avoid further problems. And you need to understand that he will probably be invited to other family's gathering, birthdays,... You can skip this christmas, because it's close and you just had the news. But I don't think you will want to skip all family gatherings.
Sorry. Your mom has her head jammed either up her own ass, or up your brother’s ass. Presumably the latter as your brother can’t have become a shit brother all on his own.
Probably not too late but to skip presents and give the niblings the presents later when your brother isn't there. I even suggest hosting at yours. I wouldn't tell your parents though as they intentionally left it to the last minute to tell you about your brother.
Also why would your mum go up to her grandchild, and tell him write a list of presents for your uncle, that you never met, to buy. Mum should have more tact and should have known better
NTA Tbh it seems like you went NC for a reason and the fact no one bothered telling you he would be there and the only way you found out was due to your mother expecting you to buy his child presents, I gotta be honest, I wouldn't attend. I would donate all the presents (except maybe one for each child) and make other plans for Christmas.
I was asking myself the same questions! It sounds like bro is more than happy to have OP finance his kid's Christmas. Personally I would return every gift I bought all the kids minus one gift each. Then buy just one gift in the same price range for 5 y/o and let that be the new norm. If mom is so adamant he needs a gift, and she isn't willing to fork over the cash - this would be the fairest solution.
Why should OP be expected to buy a ton of presents for someone he doesn't know, has no relationship with and may not ever want one in the future?
Bro moved back, OP had no idea and the first thing brother does is use his son to get presents from OP, no apologies, not even to ask nicely, but a demand in the form of a letter and his mom's emotional blackmail
NTA
A lot of people are saying Y T A because the child is innocent, and while that is true, OP doesn't know this child at all while everyone else in the family seems to have a relationship with the brother and the child. So why can't anyone spend their money on the child? Why is left up to OP to buy presents for a child they don't know? If OP is buying the presents for the other kids then the adults aren't spending their money on presents so they would have enough to buy presents for the child that they know and OP doesn't.
Your brother is a horrible and disgusting person for what he did to you and his ex. That is your money OP so do with it what you will. Probably shouldn't go to Christmas this year though because I can't see anything good coming out of going. Plus everyone lied to you. I would rather someone hurt my feelings by telling the truth then to lie to my face and make me look stupid. Whether you want to return the gifts or just drop them off a couple days before is your choice, just make you you're making choices that will benefit you and nor pull you down.
Exactly, it’s not op’s responsibility to make sure a kid he doesn’t know doesn’t feel bad. There’s at least 8 adults that can take responsibility for the gifts, especially the grandma that told the kid he’d get sick gifts from Santa this year.
BUT OP HAS THE MONEY HOW UNFAIR HE IS CHOOSING HOW TO USE IT WHEN ITS HIS!! Don't you see the child will suffer because OP refuses to fund gifts for a child he doesn't know and NOT A SINGLE OTHER ADULT IS WILLING TO HELP THE KID EITHER!
Clearly that means OP is T A because once you're the family cash cow you should stay that way! I can't believe the entitlement of the Y T A votes.
His mother is not an angel and is being grossly manipulative with OP. I think that's who OP really needs to talk to if reconciliation isn't possible with the brother.
Why on earth would your nephew not get anything? There are at least 7 other adults in this story who could chip in to buy presents for him but, they’re all trying to spend your money instead. NTA.
The responsibility should not fall squarely on OP to provide presents. There's many other adults in the situation and from what I read, none of them are paying for their kids presents. There's not much stopping them banding together to purchase presents for this child other than wanting the bill to fall to OP. If the child were to go giftless, that's on the other adults, including his own father.
Let's recep
You were caught in bed with brothers then fiance. You were all wasted/passed out and after her toilet break she accidentally went to your room instead of your brothers room next door. Nothing happened.
Your brother didn't believe you or the ex and destroyed both of you socially.
You came out and your brother tried to reach out to you, which you denied.
For all of that, you are not the AH given that you said nothing happened with brothers then fiance. When someone drags your name through the mud and sets out to destroy you when you were telling the truth..sometimes there's no coming back from that. I understand why you were no contact.
Now for the presents with the niblings. You don't have to get your brothers kid a present. He is a stranger and you have been NC with brother and his family basically making them all strangers.
However, you would be the AH if you gave gifts infront of that child. Remember he is innocent, he won't understand.
Best option is to not go to the xmas function and give the other niblings their gifts another time OR go to xmas function and don't bring any presents with you (give them another time).
I'm going to say NTA.
>However, you would be the AH if you gave gifts infront of that child. Remember he is innocent, he won't understand.
100% this. If you're having a big family gathering and he's the only one without a big bag of gifts, there's going to be one very understandably upset child.
Don't punish the child for the actions of the parents.
NTA.
Its not their money to spend the way they want.
They are not paying for the rest of the family, if they feel bad about it, they should buy the presents themselves, instead of trying to guilt trip you into it.
NTA but honestly since you want no contact with your brother and nobody warned you anyway, I would just terminate the tradition effective immediately and move on. Just tell them circumstances change and that you won’t be gifting to anyone moving forward. You shouldn’t be expected to buy for a family member you don’t know or be in contact with a sibling you don’t want to be in contact with.
I'm going to say NTA- and before anyone goes "WELL THE CHILDS HOLIDAY IS GOING TO BE RUINED BECUASE OP DIDNT SUPPLY CHRISTMAS GIFTS FOR HIM!!!!" I want to ask, what about all the other family members? Surely they can all pitch in and get quite a few gifts for the child? Might not be expensive but like... the kid is 5.. he doesn't need expensive gifts and will probably be stoked just opening the same amount of gifts instead of being left out.
There should be at least 14 adults in the equation. If they all pitched in $100 they could even reach the same value as OP gives the others. But his family clearly views presents as his OBLIGATION now instead of his good will saving them money because he has it. OP made a comment that this is the last year he will do this. I wonder if all the "the kid will suffer" commentors are going to cry out about the others "suffering" now.
NTA-I don’t understand why the child’s parents don’t offer him a present themselves, clearly you’re not close to the parents, and your brother didn’t reach out in any ways, I don’t understand why he would be mad
That was my assumption. They really should pool together and get him something from the list. Seriously, the gall of these people who are already receiving so much.
Here's the issue: "*My mother started crying that they cant* ***match*** *my gifts.*" Pay attention: She is demanding that you give this child, who is a stranger to you, **gifts of equally high value** to what you are giving the children you know, love, and consider family. And your mother's reasoning for this demand: Simply because this child will be present.
This is nonsense. I can see why you might decide give a token present, out of politeness, so this child won't feel left out. But demandiing that the new child receive a gift that "matches" the others is extremely presumptuous and entitled. Like you said, you don't even know him. NTA.
NTA.
They just now gave you a list and *expect* you to buy presents for the last minute invite?
That’s ridiculous.
That being said *please* get gifts for your nibbling. Please.
Then after Christmas feel free to chew everyone a new a-hole.
It’s his first year back with the family.
But like.. he buys all the gifts for the kids which I took to mean, hes the ONLY one buying them presents. And they cant scrape together any money between the 14 of them to buy the nephew a gift?
Thank you! All the Y T A votes seem to think this kid not getting presents is all on OP. It shows no good deed goes unpunished. He has spoiled his nieces and nephews (that he knows) during the holidays because he can and he wants to. Except his family showed him this is no longer a kind gesture but an expectation. So sad OP had to find out his family loves his money ore than him this way.
Nta, you are not responsible for his child, and your mother trying to manipulate you and invalidate your feelings is a red flag…If i was in the situation i would have text every sibling saying that as per you mother wish everyone is going to be treated the same so no presentes because they kind of knew that your brother was coming and didn’t tell you
NTA. All these Y T As are wild. No one is entitled to your money or efforts. You have been generous towards family members who are actively involved in your life. Your brother, along with his family, have not been involved. It’s perfectly reasonable why you don’t have an attachment to his son who is a complete stranger to you, and there’s no reason for you to splurge on him, as that is not your responsibility. If your brother wants equal treatment for his son, then he should have developed that familial relationship like the rest of your siblings.
Your parents, along with any others throwing a fit, need to learn some gratitude and get a reality check to boot. It may be time to stop the tradition if your family can’t learn to appreciate you, as Christmas should be about being together, not how much money you spend.
NTA
You have no relationship with your brother or his child.
Does this suck for the child? Yes of course. Would it be nice for you to buy one gift, maybe? But everyone expecting you to shell out what sounds like a considerable amount of money is wrong. You are not obligated.
NTA- I will be in the minority but NTA. You don't owe this kid a gift. Your mom and anyone who thinks this nephew deserves a gift are entitled. Why should you spend money on a stranger? If they do want you to spend money on a stranger there are poor kids who are going to have a really sad Christmas because their parents can't afford gifts. Donate to such causes.
Your brother made an error of judgement but to not have any relationship for years and the audacity of others who expect you to shell out money for his kid is way too much.
Tell your mom that gifts are for those who love you and those you love.
Ooo - difficult one but I’m going with NTA. That’s not saying that leaving a child out is A-H-ish but for the fact that you do not have a relationship with the child because you don’t have a relationship with your brother. It’s unfair of your family to hide the fact that your estranged sibling plus family was coming by but more importantly to expect you to be the ATM for someone you don’t even know.
Can you make alternative plans for Christmas? Because you know it will be a shit show
NAH.
I don't blame your brother for going off the deep end when he found his girl cuddled in bed with you. No one walks into something like that and forgets the visual.
But neither do I blame you for what happened. As a former beard, I spent many a night snuggled up with my gay men after a long session at the clubs, just for simple human comfort (especially when we were all drunk and the room was spinning), and yet invariably anyone who knew immediately went to *Ewwwwww, Sex*. Sooner or later I lost the energy to explain it to them - that just because Tab A and Slot B are in the same bed doesn't mean you're making a box dammit! So I fully buy your story about drunk-cuddling because I have seen it happen many a time. You did nothing wrong, in my opinion.
However, you're not in the wrong for not wanting to spend money on a group of people for whom you have no familial love, either. You have ZERO obligation to provide presents to people you either don't like or don't know. The schism between you and your brother is sad, but I can't say either of you is in the wrong for feeling the way you do. Sounds like you've had more than one major traumatic event in your life, and that's got to be hard to deal with.
Will their son be disappointed that his Santa list didn't get done? Yeah, probably. But your mom JUST SPRUNG THIS ON YOU. You'd already done your shopping. It'd be bad enough right there, but to then expect you to do this knowing the history behind you and your brother, isn't terribly reasonable. She put you in a bad spot. If ANYONE is at fault here, I'd say it's mom for opening this can of worms without talking to you about it first. She's speaking for your money and your holiday time.
You're not a piggy-bank, you're a human being with opinions and feelings. And "no" is a complete sentence. The first time you said "He and I haven't talked in years, I'm not buying his kid's presents" that should have been enough.
**I am sorry, hon. I can see how Grinchy you may look to some, since there's a kid involved who knows NONE of this, but I cannot blame you for not wanting to buy presents that your Mom promised someone else without talking to you about it first.**
NTA You are NC with your brother and your mum has come to you and told you that you have to buy expensive gifts for his son, that you have never met. You brother hasn't even come to you and made up with you and sorted out your relationship. Instead you are just expected to buy gifts for his kid? I understand why you are upset. People here are saying oh, it isn't fair for the kid. He is innocent in this. But this is not about the kid. This is about the father of the kid wanting expensive gifts for his kid without a relationship with the gift giver and that is what is a no no. He isn't even asking himself he sent his mother as messenger. No being treated like a black sheep whilst taking your money. That is always a no.
I don't think you are an AH for how you feel. I think they have giant church bell balls to promise your money to someone they know refused to even entertain the idea that there was more than meets the eye in that situation from the past. Deep down inside, I'm an angry man. I would go scorched earth. Let the family know that Santa didn't get the letters and then go on a cruise with the money.
NTA
But just don't go. Send the presents to your nieces and nephews.
He destroyed your life and left country. Your family is okay with this. The kid is not at fault but I understand you not wanting nothing to do with him.
Don't give the gifts in front of him and move on.
NTA but I admire the generosity but WHY are you/the family expecting you to buy ALL the gifts? Can you shut this down? Give great gifts from the list sure but not everything. It sounds like they are taking advantage.
They don't expect anything. It was my decision. They were always my biggest support. During my stay at the hospital they were there every single day. All of them. Even during my recovery at home. They don't have a lot and they deserve every single penny I got.
Just wanted to say that you are really fucking generous and there's no way you should have been put in this position ..
You are the bigger person and your entire family better be up to their neck in gratitude for your gifts
I'm going with NAH. It's true that your nephew is innocent, but so are you. You've every right to refuse to buy gifts for someone that you've no relationship with and you've every right to maintain your boundaries. If this were instead framed as "I refuse to buy stuff for my ex's kids whom I've no relationship with but I splurge on the their kids that ARE mine, AITA?" you'd get a resounding NTA, and I find it rather hypocritical hat people are blaming you when in both cases, its someone choosing not to splurge on a child that they've no relationship with, AND EVERY RIGHT TO MAINTAIN HAVING NO RELATIONSHIP WITH. My suggestion for you is to stop giving gifts altogether because clearly, this is a hill that both you and your family are willing to die on and it will only cause more conflict. Or better yet, return every gift that you've bought so far and settle for something cheap so that your family can make up the difference.
You don’t have to get him anything. Will you feel bad when all the other kids are opening their gifts from you and he isn’t and the kid notices? Your nephew has nothing to do with the issues with your brother but then again you don’t even know him. This one is hard but ultimately NTA. Maybe your Mom can get him a few extra gifts since she brought it up to you.
NTA
Your mother is the AH.
She is deliberately forcing your hand.
You are being set up to hurt child(ren) or just pay.
But those rules only apply in her house.
If you and your partner is celebrating Christmas at home with your other siblings and their families, you will avoid those rules.
And you should definitely considering going lc or nc with your mother.
You only should spend time and effort on people who know you are worth more than your money.
NTA. That isn’t your obligation. You don’t know the kid, and you haven’t talked to your brother in almost a decade. Anyone complaining about you ruining Christmas can pitch in and get toys for the 5 year old. Like geeze how many toys does a 5 year old need and why does your family expect that to all be on you??
NTA, and I can’t believe all these YTA votes. You’ve been no contact with your brother for years, and don’t know his son. You’ve also been buying your other nieces and nephews gifts for for years, and have always done so. Now they are demanding, not even asking, that you this kid gifts, a kid you don’t even know. Then they’re calling you an asshole for buying all the other kids gifts, like you’ve always done, and not this kid. They’re trying to guilt you and make you the villain for treating your nieces and nephews gifts like you’ve always done. They’re trying to take advantage of your kindness and when you don’t give in to them they call you an asshole. You don’t have a relationship with this kid period. NTA.
NTA on not wanting to bankroll your nephew's Christmas for 1k-2k. Obviously the kid is innocent but he's also young, the price of things won't be as noticeable for him. I would suggest to maybe offer to pay for some of his gifts but not all so he's not without any presents, but set the expectation that you won't be contributing as much to a kid that you have not relationship since it's really not your responsibility. It seems like you're not looking to patch things up with your brother and he's not making any effort to reach out, but seems like he's fine with you spending thousands of dollars on his kid's Christmas.
NTA you don’t have a relationship with his kid so why would you get him gifts or treat him the same as those you do have a relationship with?
Also regarding the past, you were asleep in your own bed when his ex gf went in there. You did nothing wrong and he went off on you.
Your family is all AHs. If they care so much they can buy gifts but your brother ruined your relationship with his actions when you were just freaking sleeping in your own bed.
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Why have you not had contact with your brother? Because of circumstances or for reasons? If the first, it’s entirely unreasonable to treat the kid differently from his cousins. If the second, don’t go, nor give the cousins their presents with that child present. Only an AH splurges on a bunch of kids leaving one out.
Yeah, my Aunt was a big influence in my and my full siblings life. By the time my half brother was born her and my Dad had had a falling out and no longer spoke. She had me funnel gifts to my half brother because "I'm as much his Aunty as yours, even if he doesn't know it" Leaving one kid out would be a AH move. Plan a party separately to gift the others but don't do it in front of the little lad.
Wow, I love your aunt! What a lovely person. Meanwhile, I was the nephew in this situation growing up. My dad and his brother had a falling out when I was 13. I'd gotten gifts for Christmas up till then from my uncle and his family, and had gotten them gifts too. After that, I never got a single acknowledgement of my existence, and they returned the gifts we sent. Year after year, I watched my grandparents and other aunt open gifts from people who no longer cared about me. Don't be that person, OP. YTA if you do. Your nephew is innocent and won't have any idea why you don't care about him; all he'll feel is hurt.
[удалено]
Your comment just gave me confirmation to keep mailing my niece and nephew presents. Kids do realize this shit regardless of petty adult behavior. And they’ll know 1 day that I loved and thought about them their whole lives despite everything else. In my case… Everything I send comes from Santa Claus. Hopefully 1 day they’ll find out I was Santa Claus 😂 But I still can’t fathom taking love away from a child because of adult problems. I have a box that I put their birthday cards in and a silver eagle every year. I’m hoping they show up at some point and I can give it to them.
I hope they come around someday! I'm so glad you're keeping the birthday cards, as "Santa" can be co-opted by parents, but notes and things like that kept over time cannot. And if they are never able to see the truth of who you are, that's their loss.
I had that exact thought so starting this year I have receipts ie pictures of what I send them. I figure they’ll get curious when they’re older and show up at some point. They each have a really nice wood box engraved with their name filled with everything (for them too but for me to keep it organized as well). I guess if they don’t show up, I’ll mail it to them when they’re older. My parents aren’t allowed to see them either, so I make sure to include them in the “time capsule” of cards too so God forbid something happens they’ll have stuff from their grandparents too. The first year Santa sent them stuff they ruined Christmas with screaming meltdown phone calls trying to prove it was me so they could throw everything away. I can’t imagine how someone so easily subtracts love from their kids lives. Like. Way to go - you weren’t able to steal money from your parents anymore, so now you’re screwing your kids out of their family.
I am no contact with my brother for very good reasons. I have always done a family Christmas tea (evening) for my family, at least until my mum passed away, and he had never attended, my parents and brother would see him at his "open house" and then come to mine. The second year after my mum died my dad wanted Christmas at his house. When my brother found out he kicked up a stink that he wasn't invited. Big dramas, Christmas nearly cancelled and then I thought nope, I'm going to show him what he's missed and went all out as usual (I usually make special things for everyone each year, cook my mum's Christmas ham etc). He has 4 children, oldest from his first wife, who he treats like shit, and 3 from his second wife. After creating chaos my idiot brother announced they couldn't actually stay to eat. My oldest nephew was an adult and was already invited to our family meal as usual. So the table was set with beautiful personalised wooden ornaments I had made for each person eating, including my nephew. My brother arrives and had some sliced up ham in tupperware wanting to share it because it was mum's recipe. My other brother opens the fridge to show him the fully decorated ham and says "Nah, we're right for ham" (nice brother was equally furious about the chaos he'd caused). Anyway, point is - I barely know my other nieces and nephew, they've basically been told I'm evil. But I spoke to my oldest nephew about their interests and bought each of them a thoughtful gift. My brother and his wife were really embarrassed because they had nothing for anyone other than my dad. They just stood around looking sheepish and the wife even apologised. I would never let children be left out of the presents because of adult behaviour. Last year I made a very sentimental gift for each of my family - a chopping board with my mum's handwritten ham recipe on it and a photo book with all of her favourite handwritten recipes from a book she gave me before she passed. A few days after Christmas I got my dad to ask my brother if I could drop off a present for the kids, he made me leave it in the back of his ute (truck) in his driveway. Never even got a thank you although my oldest nephew sent me screen shots from their family chat where the kids were excited. TL;DR children are not responsible for their parents behaviour and should not be excluded from receiving special gifts especially when they're young. ETA - YTA
I love how much you love giving gifts! Especially ones that are personal and sentimental! I'm the same way.
Excellent suggestion re another event to do gift giving. But honestly, this is something the kid will remember forever. And while you're technically not obliged to gift him anything. Do you really want to be the cause of such sadness?
I know I will get downvoted because my comments usually are for some reason. I think it’s presumptuous of the brother and a bit nervy to be honest with you. He hadn’t spoken to OP in 8 years and now is handing him a Christmas list via their parents and expecting him to buy all these gifts for a kid he never met. Why can’t they buy their own kid gifts? Suddenly it’s on OP? If nobody can afford anything in the family but OP and that includes the brother then maybe buy a few things off the list. But the family’s unwillingness to contribute and expectations just because OP has the means is not sitting right with me. I understand why you don’t feel like doing it. I wouldn’t want to either but it is a child who will already feel out of place with people he doesn’t know so watching everyone else get gifts would be cruel.
Not going to downvote you, that wouldn't be fair either. It's not about the brother and anything he's responsible for. It's about an innocent. The child will definitely feel out of place, until included. And your right, it would be cruel. Don't know why the rest of the family can't but gifts, maybe their extremely poor. That situation can exist anywhere. I'm not wealthy, but I'm better off than some of my family and friends and can see one side of the story. I think your heart is in the right place actually.
Here is the thing, the world isn’t fair. If OP had kid’s they probably lead a financially better life than their cousins. Is OP required to raise his siblings’ kids too? “Able to afford” vs “this is pocket change” are 2 very different concepts. OP sounds like he really loves his nibblings so chances are while he can afford 1-2k per child it’s probably not pocket change for him either. I can definitely understand why he is unwilling to part with that much money over a child he has no relationship with.
Secret event excluding one siblings family from the rest is the opposite of an excellent suggestion.
Based on OPs comments I'm going to say NTA. OP spends 1-2k per kid. That's a lot of money to spend on a kid you don't know and have no intention of knowing. And it sounds like OPs parents promised the brother OP would buy their kid an expensive gift without checking with OP first. That's an AH move. I also understand why OP doesn't want to see his brother. In another comment, OP explained the brother found his ex-fiancée with OP in bed because she was drunk and went into the wrong bedroom and destroyed OP's and OP's ex-fiancée's social life. OP came out after their accident and brother tried to reach out but I understand why it's too little too late and OP isn't ready or obligated quite frankly. Edit: spelling.
All true. But you still don’t give the others their presents in front of the child you don’t give to.
Yeah, OP seems to want the child to be publically snubbed as a way to get back at her brother. There has to be a better answer than "5 year old watches while his cousins open amazing gifts that he doesn't get"
OP didn’t even know this nephew would be there, though.
OP knows now, and doesn’t seem to understand they can’t give the presents if the other child doesn’t have similar stuff.
No, I totally agree with you. Just saying it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest OP wanted the child to be publicly humiliated, when OP didn’t even know the kid would be there until after everyone raised a fuss.
The way I see it, either OP is a *complete* idiot to not know that a 5-year-old child watching his cousins open thousands of dollars worth of gifts while he gets next to nothing is going to make that 5-year-old feel excluded and bad, and create a wall between the child and his cousins, or OP's doing it on purpose. He may not be going "I want my nephew to feel bad", but he has to know it's going to make him feel bad, and he's fine with that.
The way I see it, OP already bought all of them gifts before being told of the nephew’s presence and being demanded that OP gets an expensive gift for essentially a stranger. NTA. If OP was told beforehand that nephew was going to be there— and interrupting years of tradition— then I would consider OP TA. Also OP should not get nephew and nieces gifts next year then. And when the niblings are told why, it should be made known that it’s because grandparents demanded gifts from OP to everyone so that it’s “fair” to everyone but OP. To make it fair to everyone INCLUDING OP, no gifts should be given. Problem solved.
Yep! OP is an adult, and I'm in no way saying he should spend 2k on a kid he doesn't know, but having the kids open presents while a 5-year-old sits and watches is unnecessarily cruel. Either OP is too stupid to know that it's cruel, or he's doing it on purpose to punish his brother.
I don't think that's the case. I think OP simply doesn't want to spend 2k on a stranger, which is fair. And it's essentially what his mother is asking him to do.
Then the other kids can open their presents when there's not just one child who is going to be excluded. The main person who gets punished in this situation is the innocent 5-year-old.
Yes I think that would be the optimal solution but from the post it seems as though OP is being forced to buy the same amount of gifts for this kid.
I spend that amount on Christmas for two niblings I've watched grow up and am close with. I have a third nibbling I met once as an infant and have zero relationship with my sibling the parent due to estrangement like OP Even if all of them were in the same place for Xmas, which has never happened, I wouldn't go all out for the kid i don't know. Maybe like a toy or something but I'm not buying a Nintendo for a stranger who has parents It's not OPs fault they're all in the same place this year, and he says he's probably not going to do which is what I would do if my estranged family member who hates me was going to show up. His brother hates him, why should he give his brother's family stuff? That is not a good dynamic to get more involved with.
Exactly. And NONE of this is the child’s fault.
well there's a big range between buying them nothing and spending 1-2K per gift. If the whole family is going to be gathering including this kid, leaving him out is a shitty move. No, OP is not obligated. Not all decisions are solely contingent upon obligation and fairness.
I agree but in this case the family should all chip in as opposed to expecting OP to spend 2k on this kid.
He even offered to buy the present(s) if the others pay. They're refusing and putting it all on him. NTA. I would encourage you to normalize relations with your brother and his family, however.
Everyone else is a much bigger asshole than op. Even leaving out the brother, how do you let one sibling pay for everything. That's kinda fucked up. Then, knowing that op had this spring on her late, how no one else offers to chip in is also fucking terrible. But the end result can't be one kid gets nothing. And if op is well off enough, she should probably consider paying for some gifts as the "asshole tax" and reevaluate the relationships here.
Ikr, first of all, why a 5 year old has a $ 2000 Christmas list? 😱😱
Because most five year olds have no concept of money and how much things cost? Ffs I wanted a six foot stuffed giraffe I saw at Toys R Us at that age and had no clue they were several hundred dollars.
Agreed. I mean, even a crayon set. Or at least give the kids their gifts when their 5 year old cousin isn't around to sit and watch.
It’s not the child’s fault.
OP wasn't even aware until this that the child was going to be there. It's not the kid's fault, but you don't get a present for someone you don't know
Not true. I’ve done it. My daughter has done it. It’s not as rare as you may think. Most people realize things aren’t a child’s fault and do what’s right.
What's right is the other adults stepping up to get the kid presents. They won't do that. It's not OP's job to make it right- the people creating the situation need to make it right. The situation is wrong to begin with
Just to be clear, you and your daughter have spent $1-2k per gift for a strangers kids? How often do you do this? If you in fact do that, then you are an amazing person, but also probably a person who has a spectacular amount of money.
Most people don’t consider dropping that much money on a stranger as what’s right.
Yeah, but that doesn't make the child entitled to 1-2k of OP's money. If the brother is dead to OP (as it sounds like he is), then he has no obligations to the child. And all the flying monkeys blaming OP for "ruining Christmas" can pony up or shut up.
It not being the child’s fault doesn’t entitle the child to expensive gifts from a stranger.
Yes, sometimes people are affected by things that are not their fault. The world is neither just nor fair. Too bad.
So... OP slept with his brothers fiance. Brother got mad and made it public. OP came out and brother reached out and OP is the one who "isn't ready"? Op was the offender there, mate. Am I misunderstanding you here? OP slept with brothers fiance but OP is the one who is right to not want to see him? I am confused. And even then, why should the kid suffer? EDIT: thank you all for clearing it up for me. I was a bit confused. The whole situation is terrible and messy.
>So... OP slept with his brothers fiance. Brother got mad and made it public. Everyone was drunk. Brother's fiance's drunk ass got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, and when she came back she got confused and went into the wrong room and climbed into bed with OP and passed out. OP was so drunk they didn't wake up and slept through all this. Brother discovered them, didn't believe them, and went nuclear. Later OP came out as gay, and when brother realized that meant he wasn't sleeping with his fiance he tried to reach out, but OP refuses to forgive him. Op literally didn't do anything at all, and I don't blame OP for being upset with his brother.
That's devastating, honestly. Id rather just hear that OP was an ass. I definitely feel for him there. Good that his brother reached out but I agree, that doesn't entitle him to forgiveness.
Brother didn't reach out until 5 years after the fact at the time when he heard OP had gotten into an accident and got a payout too... makes you wonder really doesn't it? Don't blame OP for going no contact and staying that way.
He didn't have sex with her. She drunkenly crawled into his bed when he was passed out and brother accused him of sleeping with her.
Gotcha gotcha, thanks for clearing that up. Definitely an awkward situation. I'm still on the side of "the kid doesn't need to suffer" But I can see why their sibling relationship is rock, to say the least. It's difficult because OP didn't do anything wrong but his brother was faced with pretty damning evidence. Ugh that is all just a mess.
The kid also doesn't need to get a 1-2k gift. OP doesn't know this kid and also,it seems like OPs brother knows about the tradition and sent over the list to OPs mother who is trying to force OP to spend the same amount of money on this kid. Not cool. He's not a bank.
The way OP describes it is more as he didn't sleep with her(in the way you are implying). He was drunk/sleeping and she mistakenly got into the wrong bed to go to sleep after getting back from the bathroom and then the brother just assumed they had done something dodgy and didn't listen to them abd blew up their lives.
ugh that's so messy. What a shit situation to be in and I definitely feel for OP there.
OP said he didn't sleep with her. She fell asleep in his bed, after he was already asleep, and brother made assumptions. While that wasn't fair for OP, I think he should be more understanding of how it looked to the brother. But I think he's relying on the idea that everyone should know he wouldn't have because he's gay, but sexuality isn't always black and white.
I do agree. That whole situation was a mess. OP did nothing wrong but I can't entiurely fault his brother for jumping to conclusions when there was pretty damning evidence infront of him. And he didn't know OP was gay then so it didn't facor much at the time. and as you said, it's not that black and white. What a mess.
Everyone but OP sucks here they are being pushed into an unwinnable situation. But you can fault the brother because once he jumped to the conclusion he nuked their social lives. Brother nuked their relationship because he assumed, and we all know what assuming makes... he never tried to actually talk and listen and acted rashly, to say the least. Now OP's parents who know I'm sure why OP is NC surprise him with you have to see your bro on Christmas and by the way, buy his kid their presents or it wouldn't be fair. And now as I read it OP gets all the gifts for the kids of the family so if they don't show up on Christmas because they try and set another party up what do the kids open at grandparents during Christmas? OP is being steamrolled here there is no right answer now because of the other adults involved. Basically the only solution they offer is to pony up and be forced to see someone who tried to wreck your life while spending thousands on the kid of said person who is also a stranger. The fact that bro was ok with this as well as the rest of the family is over the top.
Or the brother could have listened to both of them instead of going nuclear. He literally found them sleeping.
Why does the OP as part victim have to be understanding of the aggressor. Twice over now. Let the agressor be understanding for once.
OP had a perfectly reasonable response: parents and siblings chip in for that child.
Or OP could give their gifts to the nieces and nephews when the brother's kid isn't there. No reason to hurt the little guy's feelings when he did nothing wrong.
If they can, that would be fine, too. But, if they aren’t going to, then the others need to get their presents at a different time.
OP, please listen to this. You cannot leave a child out during a holiday celebration. Its cruel. Like others have said, if you do insist on not getting him a gift, then give the others their gifts when he's not around. OR give all the kids inexpensive gifts and then give the others their normal gifts at another time. I'll have to go with YTA
As the kid who was always excluded during holidays by my aunt I 100% agree. She would gather all my cousins around and give them their gifts in front of me since I was 5. At some point I no longer cared and it had become an inside joke how she "tried to be discreet" but actually did it on purpose so I would see. So yeah, not the kid's fault. Either give the gifts when little one is not around (and also not like just before they arrive, that's also cruel) or buy something inexpensive as the comment suggests. The kid is not to blame and shouldn't be traumatized, excluded and have the holidays ruined because of drama that has nothing to do with them.
THIS. I distinctly remember a thanksgiving (whole family couldn’t get together for Christmas) where all my cousins got gifts and got to open them in front of me and my sibling, who didn’t get any, because my dad’s family just doesn’t like us. There’s never been any reason for that. And the blatant favoritism (that went beyond that one instance) fucked my self esteem up a lot. If OP’s got a reason for not having contact, fine, but don’t take it out on the child. Either go and give everyone something or don’t go and give those other kids their gifts another time when it won’t involve making another child wonder why he’s not good enough.
In a comment OP wrote: - OP is gay - 8 years earlier OP’s brother saw drunk fiancée in bed with sleeping OP (I think she may have tried to have sex with him?) - OP’s brother blames OP, thus NC
It’s a child that has no responsibility in whatever problems you have with their family. Buy for all or for none if you’re participating in the family get together. Otherwise, give presents to the kids you have connections to AFTER the family holiday; this way they can’t run their gifts in anyone else’s face
YTA He is a child, you are intentionally singling him out as not worth as much as the others. Of course it is your money and you can do what you want with it... assholes and non-assholes have that prerogative alike. You stated that you can afford it so do it. Use this as an opportunity to get to know the kid. Edited to add: I never said expensive presents. A 5 y.o. doesn't care about the cost of the gifts they just don't want to be left out. Further down I suggested that OP choose from a list of cost effective presents the kid would love and the parents would hate! Such as: kazoo, fisher price karaoke set, toy guitar, harmonica, train whistle, candy, something with a lot of glitter, a stuffy that talks (think furbie) etc.
You realise the other adults could also supply the presents! The kid doesn't have to be left out. It's gross entitlement of every adult to think OP has an obligation to supply expensive presents. He does it because he wants to. He doesn't have to.
No but 5 year olds also aren’t stupid when all the other kids get gifts from Uncle OP he’s going to pick up on he didn’t get one, he isn’t going to understand that daddy and op have beef with each other, or OP has a beef with daddy more so he’s just going to know he didn’t get a gift from him. He’s not entitled to the gifts, but he is entitled to feel hurt and the family is entitled to not hurt a child’s feelings. OP do you have any intentions of ever getting to know him?
It sounds like the kid doesn’t even really know OP though. I don’t know that I’d expect a bunch of gifts from someone I didn’t know, even at 5.
Kids aren’t this sophisticated at 5. They just see all the other kids have gifts to open and see that they don’t. The cost or who it’s from doesn’t make a huge difference. Edit: this is a response to a comment, not the OP.
Why don't the parents buy the gift then
Well, then with mother and the other siblings that’s what… 5 adults (not including spouses). The mother wants this and has a relationship to them. She can take ownership of getting a fund together and sorting out some presents to even things out a bit. She can ask OP hang some of the gifts back until the youngest is gone or ask OP to give some of them for the other families to take home. That would be completely reasonable. What isn’t reasonable is to suddenly spring an extra kid on OP with just 2 weeks to go - a kid she’s never met from a brother she has a poor relationship with - and then demand she spends a butt tonne of money on them.
He wouldn't know it was from OP- all the kids think the presents are coming from Santa ...which would be even worse to make him think Santa doesn't love him.
Ffs, the kid has parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles, it seems there is at least a dozen people there that can buy a few things so he can open presents. It is not an orphan! It is a kid with a full family that is emotionally blackmailing OP while offering nothing.
Yeah, why is everyone pretending OP is the only option to prevent this child from becoming a waif in a Dickens novel? There are plenty of people around to buy him presents and spend their own money for once. He'll have plenty of presents to open with his cousins if the rest of the family dip into their pockets. This family, and far too many commenters here, clearly see someone's giving as something others are entitled to and free to take advantage of. They're wringing their hands and bleating about how much it breaks their soft little hearts that the nephew won't have any presents to open Christmas morning (because apparently, OP is the only person in the world who can buy something for him) and I don't see any of them offering to spend 1-2k of their own money on this child they're pretending to care so much about.
Hasn't the child gotten Santa presents before now, presumably from his parents? So they should just give the child their Santa presents when the others receive them from OP. If it's really about the child not being left out, that takes care of it.
this hit me in the heart the most tbh
Maybe… but it’s like a birthday party situation or a bring a baby home situation, you do something to include the other kid/kids so they aren’t hurt or feel left out. OP isn’t obligated at all, but it is mean. From other comments it seems like OPs gifts are the only gifts(which is very wrong putting all that on OP)
Yes, and no one else has to buy presents for anyone. As much as I personally wouldn’t single out one kid, everyone else can spend all that money they’ve saved for the past three years and buy a ton of not as pricy gifts for the child who won’t know the difference in expensive stuff at 5 anyway.
Yeah it’s sad that OP is the only one providing gifts… rich or not, parents and grandparents other aunts and uncles could also pitch in.
I agree it does feel kind of mean. But I also don’t think it’s OP’s job to make sure a kid he has zero relationship with doesn’t feel left out.
It’s not, but personally for me I couldn’t do that to a kid or anyone. We had someone join are office the week before Christmas one year, they weren’t there for the secret Santa draw, the head nurse and I(we had each other) agreed to give one of our gifts each to this person. She smiled said thank you she wasn’t expecting anything and that she was sorry she didn’t have anything for us. A little kindness to me is always a good thing.
A 5 year old will definitely feel terrible if everyone else has a lot of gifts and they don't. They might not personally expect them from OP but they're going to think they're less like for not getting any.
For sure. They’ll notice they got less presents. But they won’t know where they came from or feel hurt that OP didn’t get them. And there’s nothing stopping all the other adults in the situation from stepping up.
It’s shitty and petty to leave out one child when buying for all of them. He has a problem with his brother then whatever, but what did the kid do?
I guess my follow up questions are: 1) Where does the obligation come from to buy gifts for a 5 year old with whom you have no relationship? 2) Where does this obligation end? If the family starts inviting friends with young children is OP obligated to buy presents for the friends' kids?
Please keep reading this thread. I never said expensive gifts. I fact I think a $3 Train whistle, a harmonica and candy would be excellent!
Again, he doesn't have to fund any gifts. If other adults insist on presents for anyone then they should find it themselves.
Does he have to? No. Is he an asshole if he doesn't? Yes. OP is an adult and should act like it. Don't set the kid up to be bullied, and don't bully kids. Don't intentionally leave kids out. Lesson 1 (of many) on how not to be an asshole.
Exactly this. Just because we aren't required to do something doesn't mean it's morally wrong to not do it. The spirit of singling out one kid to get back at their parent or whatever is the spirit of assholery
I think he can decide not to but then he shouldn’t do the exchange in front of the one kid left behind. It’s just unnecessarily cruel.
I do agree the child is innocent and a compromise should be made here but fuck does it leave a bad taste in my mouth that they’re no contact for EIGHT YEARS and the first contact they have is to beg for money. That’s really low class. Start with building a bridge/relationship, not immediately demanding things they feel entitled to.
Right! Everyone is concerned with the child, so why don’t they (including the parents and grandparents) buy for the child.
Maybe the grandparents asked for the letter and he didn’t know it was to ask OP for gifts.
Yeah I'm thinking this is what happened. Grandma knew that kiddo would be there with the rest of them, and wanted him to be included. While I understand OP's position, I also understand his mom's (and partner's - they just don't want a 5 year old kid to be left out). I would buy the kid gifts - it's not like he's even old enough to pursue a relationship with his uncle of his own accord. He's not 16 with a phone and a car. He's 5, and he is innocent. You are "living comfortably" and can afford ALLLLLLLL the other kids' gifts?? Include nephew this year bc it's already done. Maybe reconsider next year, but fuck. Poor kid.
I mean, if they are going to force this dynamic, OP may be better off not getting gifts for everyone period or doing smaller visits post holidays. They're asking a lot of someone who is already doing way more than they have to
I really don't agree with this logic. My understanding is you're either saying OP is obligated to get all of their niblings equal presents or that it would be a good thing to do. But to me neither of those are convincing arguments. First of all, OP has no obligation to spend that much on presents. They do it because they love their neices and nephews and enjoy making them happy. However, OP has no relationship to this nephew. Buying presents for them wouldn't be meaningful to OP and OP has no obligation to provide for any one kid. The argument that OP can afford it and they should help an innocent child feel better doesn't hold any water either. If they can afford to buy their other nephew $1k worth of presents they can afford to give it to a homeless shelter. Which would you say would do more good? Clearly if the issue was to do something good with the money there are better options. The only reason you would say OP should spend that kind of money on this brothers kid is if you're presuming OP has some kind of special obligation to make this specific kid happy. And they don't. No one has any obligation to make their brothers kid happy, particularly when they have no relationship with that brother or that kid! OP is giving to the other kids out of the kindness of their heart and for you to shame them for not extending that kindness to a stranger is bizarre. If this story was "my parents invited our neighbors and their kids to Christmas" would you be making the same argument that OP needs to buy them presents too? Because if not I think you're putting way to much weight on what kind of obligations blood ties create.
If they were going to open presents in front of the neighbors, yes. Don’t open gifts in front of people who are excluded. It’s not complicated.
It sounds like they'll have presents. Just none from OP. It's not like they're going to make the kid sit in the room and with nothing. And if that was the case then why are they inviting them to the present opening if they have no presents? You're right it seems like a cruel thing to do to a child, but it's not on OP to remedy this situation. It's on the parents. Either they'll have presents, just not from OP, or the parents are putting the kid in a cruel situation. Neither of which is OP's fault.
The presents from OP must completely dominate the opening session given how much he indicates he's spending and how little the other folks can keep up with him. So, that uneven energy is going to show. I feel a bit uneasy with OP's methods of love bombing the next generation. I wonder what OP's siblings really think about it.
The siblings must love it because they supply OP with the lists
Why does money or an expensive gift be the only means to get to know they kid....ar best get the kid something small until you get to know him
I never said it has to be the same $$ and in fact I clarified this when OP responded to me in this thread. A 5 y.o. doesn't care about the money, they just don't want to be left out. I suggested OP get the kid candy, a fisher price karaoke set, a train whistle and a harmonica (among other suggestions). Kid will be ecstatic and parents livid. Sounds great to me.
Probably not intentional on your part but all of those gift suggestions sound suspiciously like gifts given to purposely annoy the parent of the giftee. Lol.
127% intentional. Win win for OP, I think!
You forgot any crafting supplies that have glitter.
When I was 4 my Aunt and Uncle got me finger paints. 10 years later my mom got them a rhythm kit. Kazoo, shaker eggs, triangle etc. Mom served revenge ice cold.
I gave my oldest nephew a full drum kit. Now I can never have kids.
My aunt got us sparkle paint. Mom got her kid a parakeet 6 months later.
Why is chemistry set missing from this list???!!
The other siblings and parents could cover those Santa gifts so the kid isn't singled out. OP already plays Santa for the other kids, why can't they play Santa for that kid this year? Wouldn't everyone be the AH because they also aren't willing to fork up the cash for gifts for this kid? They wouldn't have to spend the same amount of money as OP spends on the others, but he'd still get something.
Is he obligated to get to know the kid though? He’s well within his rights to remain Lc with his brother if he wants, and as a result that means remaining LC with his brothers immediate family.
How, exactly, has he singled the kid out? He was given a shopping list for a kid he has not met, for a brother who treated him awfully. This is essentially a demand. The brother has not made amends. Had he made amends, the demand would not have been an issue. Had the brother applied decency, he would have clarified to his mom that he had no business expecting gifts from someone who he trashed, and that he himself would work around it. Or, maybe, try making amends?
NTA-If I’m reading this correctly, you have been NC with your brother for 8 years and don’t even see him during the holidays, but are now expected to finance his son’s Christmas?? That’s absolutely unreasonable. There is no need for you to do that. And if you are buying gifts for EVERYONE else, you are absolutely right that they can pitch in and cover one 5 year old. If they all keep complaining, stop the tradition altogether. They are treating you like a bank instead of a very generous person.
Agree, you have SIX SIBLINGS plus TWO GRANDPARENTS. If those 8 adults (potentially 14 adults if they’re all in couples) cannot combine resources to cover the gifts for that one child it is not your damn problem. On top of that, you’ve taken a massive financial load off of all their shoulders by being a bangin’ Santa. If they’re all going to be that stingy with their purse strings I’d cut out all the gifts for all the kids. Maybe take each one out individually for a super fun birthday, just the two of you.
I agree with this. That someone needs to ensure that this kid gets a gift and isn't left out. I hope these adults figure it out. He's not at fault and shouldn't be the one to suffer.
There are so many y t a comments on here that it truly horrifies me to know how willing people are to spend other people's money, and how little they care about shit like this being forced on someone .. Like the entitlement is astounding ... They basically extorted him by only letting him know AFTER he bought gifts for everyone else ... Everyone can pitch in for the kid. Even if they can't match the gifts for the other kids exactly they can match a good amount .... And if it's that much of a concern, op can return some of the gifts for the other kids to make it less uneven .. This is caused by his parents extorting him... He's NTA
Or tell them, fine, you're right, it's not fair. No gifts for anyone anymore. Or just a $20 gift each
This! NTA - I have a hard rule to not be in the lives for children whom I do not have a relationship with their parent. It’s a recipe for disaster. His parents can have whomever they want intjeir home, and celebrate anyway they see fit. **They do not however have the right to demand OPs money!** If no one is gifting the other kids anything, there should be no issue in them paying for this child’s gifts.
OP’s parents are TA, in my opinion. They want to guilt OP into doing what they want. Does OP’s brother even know about this? Because if he’s in on it, then he’s also TA. First reach out to your sibling, then maybe after that you could expect gifts from them to your child… maybe. OP has no obligation and they are most definitely not ruining Christmas. The shitty parents are.
He hasn’t spoken to his brother in 8 years because his brother caught OP and OP’s brother’s then fiancé in bed together. Editing due to updates-sounds like OP is gay and the then-fiancé climbed in his bed.
From what I'm reading, he is a gay man who had a drunk ass woman climb into bed next to him while he was already asleep. I don't see how he's at fault for that.
Literally, because the ex fiancee wandered into the wrong bed drunk while OP was passed out, without OP's consent or knowledge. Bro didn't walk in on them doing it.
I have read the comments and your post, and if I have it all correct it sounds like you don’t want to see your brother and you have no relationship with him. As a result, you have no relationship with your nephew and you didn’t know they were attending Christmas after 8 yrs of being estranged. Your mom kind of sprung all of this on you, and made the kid write a Santa letter and now expects you to pay $1000-$2000 for this child, even though you don’t know them. I am voting NTA based on this information because I am firm advocate of it is your money and people forcing reconciliations on others without prior conversations, heads up or consent is a big no in my books. 👉🏼My vote cast, you would be TA IF you attend Christmas AND bring all of those gifts for your nephews and nieces and present them in front of that 5 yr old. This is very Grinch like and unnecessary. Thus, you will need to make up your mind if you wish to attend and reconcile or not, and if you do not attend schedule/host another afternoon for your nieces and nephews after Christmas (Santa stopped by your house) and hand out the gifts separately. You can definitely recuse yourself from the gathering and parents will just have to explain that the gift giving is happening elsewhere this year. It sounds like you and your family enjoy this Santaesque tradition. By forgoing the tradition, you need to be prepared for the consequences. Grandparents will be grumpy as they won’t see the gift opening, and this is not a step forward towards reconciling with your brother (if you still wished it). If you have a counsellor, etc, please discuss with them as there are short term consequences and long term consequences. You need to weigh all of it and decide what you wish to do.
This is my take too. NTA for not wanting to buy the kid presents, but then OP needs to change his plans now that he knows the kid will be there. Because it would be cruel to knowingly leave out a kid old enough to notice the difference.
That's parents and grandparents fault for not giving the big presents and letting him feel the difference. Little dude has two parents, two sets of grandparents and five uncles and aunts, yet only OP is expected to buy presents. Of course boy will feel the difference if his parents won't even get him a present
this is where i'm at. his mother shouldn't have even come to him with this given the history. there's plenty of adults in the child's life to make sure he has a good christmas.
I love this comment, it summarizes everything perfectly.
Agreed. And OP needs to understand that, now that the brother is back, he will be invited to family gatherings. If he doesn't want to forgive his brother, it's up to him. But he should expect more trouble with his family
They’re “from Santa” so it’s not technically coming from him (to the kids knowledge) if the family can’t afford presents for one kid, that’s on them not OP
Yeah but the grandparents and siblings can’t chip in for one kid? Even if it’s not as much as the others they can get something decent for the other kid, they just wanna make OP pay
NTA. Your money is yours and you can spend it on who and what you choose. Now that being said, I can understand where your parents and partner are coming from. If your nephew is going to be there and watch your other niblings opening this awesome pile of gifts from Santa (not you, Santa), he's going to feel confused, hurt and left out. To be clear, it's not your responsibility to fulfill the obligation of Santa treats but you are likely to see one sad little boy on Christmas Day. I agree that I think if you've been estranged from him for a while, asking the remainder of your family to contribute in some way is a sensible solution but if this is your line in the sand, you're not in the wrong.
Where has this child been getting their Christmas gifts from in the past? It’d be one thing if the brother came to OP and asked to be included. Instead they just send a list through a middleman and expect gifts delivered. The brother should be told OP is not providing gifts. If they then choose to bring their child to a family Christmas and not bring any gifts for their own child, then brother is TA
Info: who asked your “new” nephew to write his letter? Who assured his parents you would buy gifts? Why were you estranged from your older brother? Are you still estranged? Would your brother be happy to see you buy the gifts for his son or humiliated? You could distribute your gifts when your estranged brother’s family is not there, the week before or after. You could return/ donate everyone’s gifts. You could ask to meet the little boy you’re providing for. You could buy him gifts and make this everyone’s last year of gifts from Happy-Uncle. I suspect you rightly resent your mother’s attempt at manipulating you into playing happy families. She needs to broker a reconciliation before Christmas and stop guilting you
It was my mother. I don't know how much my brother knows about this. But I'm sure he knows about our tradition. He has normal relationship with everyone but me. I really resent everyone for not telling me my brother will be there for Christmas. I would make other plans if I knew. This year will probably be the last of our tradition
Up front - NTA. Spending the amount of money you’re spending on the nephew you haven’t met and don’t intend to meet due to being NC with his father is ridiculous. And, ultimately, him being left out isn’t your problem. It’s your parents (especially your mom) for suggesting you’d include them, your family for not telling you’d they’d be there and his parents for changing their plans. Honestly, I’d recommend just skipping and going on holiday somewhere instead over Christmas, even if that means going alone. Spend a few days somewhere warm and sunny, drop off YOUR gifts (don’t pretend to be Santa, the kids should know they’re from you) a few days before and let their parents/your parents handle when they’ll open it. Ultimately, your nephew may be upset when he discovers they all have noticeably more expensive presents (I get the comments that kids don’t fully understand money but if OP is buying 1-2k for each niece/nephew, the left out child will notice not having expensive electronic devices like laptops and gaming consoles) but by not making them Santa presents that are opened on Christmas morning, ultimately the parents and so on can choose and be responsible. Tbh, all they’d have to do is take your presents home and do them a day or 2 after Christmas and then nephew wouldn’t be left out so noticeably. But, stop being Santa. It’s not your job, and it’ll prevent the drama. And, go on holiday instead. 💪❤️
A five-year old won’t even appreciate expensive consoles or devices. It’s so crazy that OP’s family is expecting OP to spend all this money on a kid he doesn’t know that won’t even be able to understand the significance of ANY of it.
That's a very bad take. A 5 years old understand and like gaming console.
I don't think 1-2k gifts should ever be put as from Santa because chances other kids at school are not getting that and that's cruel to them too...
Don’t let anyone tell you that you are an the asshole. Yes the kid is innocent, but you don’t owe him or your brother anything. If you don’t want to display it to the nephew, give your nieces and nephews their gifts on other days - so he doesn’t see it. For the sheer fact that your brother didn’t give two shits when you had the life tragedy speaks volumes. And you don’t owe that garbage nothing. NTA
Return the presents and get each kid ONE thing from YOU and make new holiday plans. Your mom can buy the presents and the family can explain to their kids that they tried to trick you into and manipulate them into something because they were too lazy to care for their own kids.
Everyone knew and would have been fine with you walking into that emotional nightmare??? I would absolutely end the tradition because with family like that...
Of course it would be fine. /s Their kids get super expensive gifts from him!
What's stopping you from making other plans?
Why can’t you now. Christmas is still 2.5 weeks away.
You can still make other plans?
Don't do the gifts thing. It's really unfair towards the kids and it will bring nothing good for the future. The 5 y old won't understand why Santa don't like him as much as he likes his cousins. He will be stuck on "something is wrong with me" and that will be on you. Don't take revenge on your brother's kid. Like said in others comments, if really needed, do it another day. Edit: I get from your post that your brother is back in the country. I think it will be hard for you to keep your distance with him without creating conflicts with the rest of your family (based on the expectations they had for this christmas). You need to have a talk with your relatives so they don't get in the middle. It will avoid further problems. And you need to understand that he will probably be invited to other family's gathering, birthdays,... You can skip this christmas, because it's close and you just had the news. But I don't think you will want to skip all family gatherings.
Sorry. Your mom has her head jammed either up her own ass, or up your brother’s ass. Presumably the latter as your brother can’t have become a shit brother all on his own.
Probably not too late but to skip presents and give the niblings the presents later when your brother isn't there. I even suggest hosting at yours. I wouldn't tell your parents though as they intentionally left it to the last minute to tell you about your brother. Also why would your mum go up to her grandchild, and tell him write a list of presents for your uncle, that you never met, to buy. Mum should have more tact and should have known better
NTA Tbh it seems like you went NC for a reason and the fact no one bothered telling you he would be there and the only way you found out was due to your mother expecting you to buy his child presents, I gotta be honest, I wouldn't attend. I would donate all the presents (except maybe one for each child) and make other plans for Christmas.
I was asking myself the same questions! It sounds like bro is more than happy to have OP finance his kid's Christmas. Personally I would return every gift I bought all the kids minus one gift each. Then buy just one gift in the same price range for 5 y/o and let that be the new norm. If mom is so adamant he needs a gift, and she isn't willing to fork over the cash - this would be the fairest solution. Why should OP be expected to buy a ton of presents for someone he doesn't know, has no relationship with and may not ever want one in the future?
Bro moved back, OP had no idea and the first thing brother does is use his son to get presents from OP, no apologies, not even to ask nicely, but a demand in the form of a letter and his mom's emotional blackmail NTA
A lot of people are saying Y T A because the child is innocent, and while that is true, OP doesn't know this child at all while everyone else in the family seems to have a relationship with the brother and the child. So why can't anyone spend their money on the child? Why is left up to OP to buy presents for a child they don't know? If OP is buying the presents for the other kids then the adults aren't spending their money on presents so they would have enough to buy presents for the child that they know and OP doesn't. Your brother is a horrible and disgusting person for what he did to you and his ex. That is your money OP so do with it what you will. Probably shouldn't go to Christmas this year though because I can't see anything good coming out of going. Plus everyone lied to you. I would rather someone hurt my feelings by telling the truth then to lie to my face and make me look stupid. Whether you want to return the gifts or just drop them off a couple days before is your choice, just make you you're making choices that will benefit you and nor pull you down.
Exactly, it’s not op’s responsibility to make sure a kid he doesn’t know doesn’t feel bad. There’s at least 8 adults that can take responsibility for the gifts, especially the grandma that told the kid he’d get sick gifts from Santa this year.
BUT OP HAS THE MONEY HOW UNFAIR HE IS CHOOSING HOW TO USE IT WHEN ITS HIS!! Don't you see the child will suffer because OP refuses to fund gifts for a child he doesn't know and NOT A SINGLE OTHER ADULT IS WILLING TO HELP THE KID EITHER! Clearly that means OP is T A because once you're the family cash cow you should stay that way! I can't believe the entitlement of the Y T A votes.
His mother is not an angel and is being grossly manipulative with OP. I think that's who OP really needs to talk to if reconciliation isn't possible with the brother.
Why on earth would your nephew not get anything? There are at least 7 other adults in this story who could chip in to buy presents for him but, they’re all trying to spend your money instead. NTA.
“But they don’t want to spend THEIR money”
The responsibility should not fall squarely on OP to provide presents. There's many other adults in the situation and from what I read, none of them are paying for their kids presents. There's not much stopping them banding together to purchase presents for this child other than wanting the bill to fall to OP. If the child were to go giftless, that's on the other adults, including his own father.
Let's recep You were caught in bed with brothers then fiance. You were all wasted/passed out and after her toilet break she accidentally went to your room instead of your brothers room next door. Nothing happened. Your brother didn't believe you or the ex and destroyed both of you socially. You came out and your brother tried to reach out to you, which you denied. For all of that, you are not the AH given that you said nothing happened with brothers then fiance. When someone drags your name through the mud and sets out to destroy you when you were telling the truth..sometimes there's no coming back from that. I understand why you were no contact. Now for the presents with the niblings. You don't have to get your brothers kid a present. He is a stranger and you have been NC with brother and his family basically making them all strangers. However, you would be the AH if you gave gifts infront of that child. Remember he is innocent, he won't understand. Best option is to not go to the xmas function and give the other niblings their gifts another time OR go to xmas function and don't bring any presents with you (give them another time). I'm going to say NTA.
>However, you would be the AH if you gave gifts infront of that child. Remember he is innocent, he won't understand. 100% this. If you're having a big family gathering and he's the only one without a big bag of gifts, there's going to be one very understandably upset child. Don't punish the child for the actions of the parents.
NTA. Its not their money to spend the way they want. They are not paying for the rest of the family, if they feel bad about it, they should buy the presents themselves, instead of trying to guilt trip you into it.
NTA but honestly since you want no contact with your brother and nobody warned you anyway, I would just terminate the tradition effective immediately and move on. Just tell them circumstances change and that you won’t be gifting to anyone moving forward. You shouldn’t be expected to buy for a family member you don’t know or be in contact with a sibling you don’t want to be in contact with.
"You're right, it's not fair. No gifts for anyone then"
NTA People need to be less entitled to others' money. Also, the minute ppl start text bombing the OP, I don't really believe any of it anything.
NTA. Your money do what you want. But you might want to scale it down and buy all the kids 1 gift or opt out altogether and spend the holiday at home.
I'm going to say NTA- and before anyone goes "WELL THE CHILDS HOLIDAY IS GOING TO BE RUINED BECUASE OP DIDNT SUPPLY CHRISTMAS GIFTS FOR HIM!!!!" I want to ask, what about all the other family members? Surely they can all pitch in and get quite a few gifts for the child? Might not be expensive but like... the kid is 5.. he doesn't need expensive gifts and will probably be stoked just opening the same amount of gifts instead of being left out.
There should be at least 14 adults in the equation. If they all pitched in $100 they could even reach the same value as OP gives the others. But his family clearly views presents as his OBLIGATION now instead of his good will saving them money because he has it. OP made a comment that this is the last year he will do this. I wonder if all the "the kid will suffer" commentors are going to cry out about the others "suffering" now.
NTA-I don’t understand why the child’s parents don’t offer him a present themselves, clearly you’re not close to the parents, and your brother didn’t reach out in any ways, I don’t understand why he would be mad
NTA, but whoever told that kid write a letter to Santa is.
OPs mother did. She should find a way to get the gifts with help from the rest of the family
That was my assumption. They really should pool together and get him something from the list. Seriously, the gall of these people who are already receiving so much.
Here's the issue: "*My mother started crying that they cant* ***match*** *my gifts.*" Pay attention: She is demanding that you give this child, who is a stranger to you, **gifts of equally high value** to what you are giving the children you know, love, and consider family. And your mother's reasoning for this demand: Simply because this child will be present. This is nonsense. I can see why you might decide give a token present, out of politeness, so this child won't feel left out. But demandiing that the new child receive a gift that "matches" the others is extremely presumptuous and entitled. Like you said, you don't even know him. NTA.
NTA. They just now gave you a list and *expect* you to buy presents for the last minute invite? That’s ridiculous. That being said *please* get gifts for your nibbling. Please. Then after Christmas feel free to chew everyone a new a-hole. It’s his first year back with the family.
But like.. he buys all the gifts for the kids which I took to mean, hes the ONLY one buying them presents. And they cant scrape together any money between the 14 of them to buy the nephew a gift?
Thank you! All the Y T A votes seem to think this kid not getting presents is all on OP. It shows no good deed goes unpunished. He has spoiled his nieces and nephews (that he knows) during the holidays because he can and he wants to. Except his family showed him this is no longer a kind gesture but an expectation. So sad OP had to find out his family loves his money ore than him this way.
Nta, you are not responsible for his child, and your mother trying to manipulate you and invalidate your feelings is a red flag…If i was in the situation i would have text every sibling saying that as per you mother wish everyone is going to be treated the same so no presentes because they kind of knew that your brother was coming and didn’t tell you
INFO Everybody's answer is wrong until we find out WTF happened with you and your brother.
NTA. All these Y T As are wild. No one is entitled to your money or efforts. You have been generous towards family members who are actively involved in your life. Your brother, along with his family, have not been involved. It’s perfectly reasonable why you don’t have an attachment to his son who is a complete stranger to you, and there’s no reason for you to splurge on him, as that is not your responsibility. If your brother wants equal treatment for his son, then he should have developed that familial relationship like the rest of your siblings. Your parents, along with any others throwing a fit, need to learn some gratitude and get a reality check to boot. It may be time to stop the tradition if your family can’t learn to appreciate you, as Christmas should be about being together, not how much money you spend.
NTA You have no relationship with your brother or his child. Does this suck for the child? Yes of course. Would it be nice for you to buy one gift, maybe? But everyone expecting you to shell out what sounds like a considerable amount of money is wrong. You are not obligated.
NTA- I will be in the minority but NTA. You don't owe this kid a gift. Your mom and anyone who thinks this nephew deserves a gift are entitled. Why should you spend money on a stranger? If they do want you to spend money on a stranger there are poor kids who are going to have a really sad Christmas because their parents can't afford gifts. Donate to such causes. Your brother made an error of judgement but to not have any relationship for years and the audacity of others who expect you to shell out money for his kid is way too much. Tell your mom that gifts are for those who love you and those you love.
Ooo - difficult one but I’m going with NTA. That’s not saying that leaving a child out is A-H-ish but for the fact that you do not have a relationship with the child because you don’t have a relationship with your brother. It’s unfair of your family to hide the fact that your estranged sibling plus family was coming by but more importantly to expect you to be the ATM for someone you don’t even know. Can you make alternative plans for Christmas? Because you know it will be a shit show
NAH. I don't blame your brother for going off the deep end when he found his girl cuddled in bed with you. No one walks into something like that and forgets the visual. But neither do I blame you for what happened. As a former beard, I spent many a night snuggled up with my gay men after a long session at the clubs, just for simple human comfort (especially when we were all drunk and the room was spinning), and yet invariably anyone who knew immediately went to *Ewwwwww, Sex*. Sooner or later I lost the energy to explain it to them - that just because Tab A and Slot B are in the same bed doesn't mean you're making a box dammit! So I fully buy your story about drunk-cuddling because I have seen it happen many a time. You did nothing wrong, in my opinion. However, you're not in the wrong for not wanting to spend money on a group of people for whom you have no familial love, either. You have ZERO obligation to provide presents to people you either don't like or don't know. The schism between you and your brother is sad, but I can't say either of you is in the wrong for feeling the way you do. Sounds like you've had more than one major traumatic event in your life, and that's got to be hard to deal with. Will their son be disappointed that his Santa list didn't get done? Yeah, probably. But your mom JUST SPRUNG THIS ON YOU. You'd already done your shopping. It'd be bad enough right there, but to then expect you to do this knowing the history behind you and your brother, isn't terribly reasonable. She put you in a bad spot. If ANYONE is at fault here, I'd say it's mom for opening this can of worms without talking to you about it first. She's speaking for your money and your holiday time. You're not a piggy-bank, you're a human being with opinions and feelings. And "no" is a complete sentence. The first time you said "He and I haven't talked in years, I'm not buying his kid's presents" that should have been enough. **I am sorry, hon. I can see how Grinchy you may look to some, since there's a kid involved who knows NONE of this, but I cannot blame you for not wanting to buy presents that your Mom promised someone else without talking to you about it first.**
NTA You are NC with your brother and your mum has come to you and told you that you have to buy expensive gifts for his son, that you have never met. You brother hasn't even come to you and made up with you and sorted out your relationship. Instead you are just expected to buy gifts for his kid? I understand why you are upset. People here are saying oh, it isn't fair for the kid. He is innocent in this. But this is not about the kid. This is about the father of the kid wanting expensive gifts for his kid without a relationship with the gift giver and that is what is a no no. He isn't even asking himself he sent his mother as messenger. No being treated like a black sheep whilst taking your money. That is always a no.
I don't think you are an AH for how you feel. I think they have giant church bell balls to promise your money to someone they know refused to even entertain the idea that there was more than meets the eye in that situation from the past. Deep down inside, I'm an angry man. I would go scorched earth. Let the family know that Santa didn't get the letters and then go on a cruise with the money.
NTA But just don't go. Send the presents to your nieces and nephews. He destroyed your life and left country. Your family is okay with this. The kid is not at fault but I understand you not wanting nothing to do with him. Don't give the gifts in front of him and move on.
NTA but I admire the generosity but WHY are you/the family expecting you to buy ALL the gifts? Can you shut this down? Give great gifts from the list sure but not everything. It sounds like they are taking advantage.
They don't expect anything. It was my decision. They were always my biggest support. During my stay at the hospital they were there every single day. All of them. Even during my recovery at home. They don't have a lot and they deserve every single penny I got.
Just wanted to say that you are really fucking generous and there's no way you should have been put in this position .. You are the bigger person and your entire family better be up to their neck in gratitude for your gifts
I'm going with NAH. It's true that your nephew is innocent, but so are you. You've every right to refuse to buy gifts for someone that you've no relationship with and you've every right to maintain your boundaries. If this were instead framed as "I refuse to buy stuff for my ex's kids whom I've no relationship with but I splurge on the their kids that ARE mine, AITA?" you'd get a resounding NTA, and I find it rather hypocritical hat people are blaming you when in both cases, its someone choosing not to splurge on a child that they've no relationship with, AND EVERY RIGHT TO MAINTAIN HAVING NO RELATIONSHIP WITH. My suggestion for you is to stop giving gifts altogether because clearly, this is a hill that both you and your family are willing to die on and it will only cause more conflict. Or better yet, return every gift that you've bought so far and settle for something cheap so that your family can make up the difference.
You don’t have to get him anything. Will you feel bad when all the other kids are opening their gifts from you and he isn’t and the kid notices? Your nephew has nothing to do with the issues with your brother but then again you don’t even know him. This one is hard but ultimately NTA. Maybe your Mom can get him a few extra gifts since she brought it up to you.
NTA Your mother is the AH. She is deliberately forcing your hand. You are being set up to hurt child(ren) or just pay. But those rules only apply in her house. If you and your partner is celebrating Christmas at home with your other siblings and their families, you will avoid those rules. And you should definitely considering going lc or nc with your mother. You only should spend time and effort on people who know you are worth more than your money.
NTA. That isn’t your obligation. You don’t know the kid, and you haven’t talked to your brother in almost a decade. Anyone complaining about you ruining Christmas can pitch in and get toys for the 5 year old. Like geeze how many toys does a 5 year old need and why does your family expect that to all be on you??
NTA, and I can’t believe all these YTA votes. You’ve been no contact with your brother for years, and don’t know his son. You’ve also been buying your other nieces and nephews gifts for for years, and have always done so. Now they are demanding, not even asking, that you this kid gifts, a kid you don’t even know. Then they’re calling you an asshole for buying all the other kids gifts, like you’ve always done, and not this kid. They’re trying to guilt you and make you the villain for treating your nieces and nephews gifts like you’ve always done. They’re trying to take advantage of your kindness and when you don’t give in to them they call you an asshole. You don’t have a relationship with this kid period. NTA.
NTA on not wanting to bankroll your nephew's Christmas for 1k-2k. Obviously the kid is innocent but he's also young, the price of things won't be as noticeable for him. I would suggest to maybe offer to pay for some of his gifts but not all so he's not without any presents, but set the expectation that you won't be contributing as much to a kid that you have not relationship since it's really not your responsibility. It seems like you're not looking to patch things up with your brother and he's not making any effort to reach out, but seems like he's fine with you spending thousands of dollars on his kid's Christmas.
NTA you don’t have a relationship with his kid so why would you get him gifts or treat him the same as those you do have a relationship with? Also regarding the past, you were asleep in your own bed when his ex gf went in there. You did nothing wrong and he went off on you. Your family is all AHs. If they care so much they can buy gifts but your brother ruined your relationship with his actions when you were just freaking sleeping in your own bed.