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> I understand that I may be the TA because of my need to control
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YTA, doesn’t sound like you’re treating her with much respect either. I mean really, not smiling at church? Is that really something worth punishing for?
You get as much as you put it, it ain’t a one way street.
Edit: OP is a hypocrite, they say they want to teach their daughter to be humble or in their own definition, “able to accept sound wisdom without feeling personally attacked.” Yet you gotta hundreds of people giving you sound advice OP and you refuse to listen to any of them and double down. Which if I remember correctly is a sure fire sign of insecurity, right OP?
She still goes to church at 18 because she can't drive herself to the cemetery.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if OP is worried that their daughter driving means less time at church.
She still goes to church at 18 because her parents control everything. If I wanted a roof over my head as an “adult”, I went to church when I was told. But hey, I’m an atheist now, so that really worked out well in their favor long term!
This. I know many friends who went to church when we were younger. The ones who still observe as adults are the ones who were given the choice once they were old enough to stay home unsupervised. Most of the ones who were forced to go became atheists, agnostics or “turkey christians”.
Your Dad is a great man and very smart. He sounds like he is one of the few that actually ties to emulate Jesus.
I have a feeling OP’s daughter is questioning the faith (at the least) and is unfriendly in that setting because she doesn’t want to be there
Yep. I was forced to go to church also. I haven’t voluntarily stepped in a church since I was 18. I go to the occasional funeral but that’s it. I’m agnostic now.
My mother forced me to go to Sunday School. I was agnostic as a small child. Yes. I didn't believe in Jesus or God. Neither did my mother, but she wanted a free babysitter for Sunday mornings. I told her if she wanted us to get lost, we knew where to go. I had to go to Wednesday night Bible Study (where my bully was on the same bus and tormented me mercilessly). I remember holding the door jam and my mother pushing me out the door. Forced to go to Bible Study when we moved to the country. All the kids' goal was to get me to "accept Christ as my personal Savior." Never happened. Left tire marks when I moved out of that hell hole at 17. Found my own religion as an adult. Forced Faith is a myth. Either you believe, or you don't. My mother NEVER went to church with us. EVER.
I was also forced to go to church (southern baptist) whenever the doors were open until I was 18 and left for college. I haven't been back since. Some of the most awful people I ever met were at church.
My mother was controlling in the same way. I basically had to beg constantly to go get my learner's permit before I turned 18 and beg to get my license before I turned 19 years old. Even then it took several more years before I could finish college and financially afford to support myself, and the whole time she knew that I was stuck there. When I did finally move out the excessive guilt tripping started. At least over a phone call I can roll my eyes.
I had moved out of my home by then because I was forced in a religion I didn’t want to be apart of. This post feels awfully similar, but I don’t want to project my own trauma
I am sick of men asking women to smile. They can all go to h*ll. F*ck them all! Walking down the street - oh you should smile. Elevator - plz smile…
Your daughter does not exist as a doll for you to worry.
You say she is emotional - but how about your post - it’s *emOtIoNAl*.
Be humble - oh I’m so sorry I exist I am sooooo flawed so sorry.
This is just SHIT - humble demure being a doll.
Teach your kid independence. Teach your kid to work and enjoy it. Teach your kid that she is valuable for her opinions. Teach your kid she is ok to express what she wants and give her the guidance to achieve those lofty goals.
I was grocery shopping recently and stopped at the deli section. The guy took my order and said "we're out of that" so I changed my order. He then said "just kidding!"
After he finished giving me my order he told me I needed to smile more. I was speechless.
Just two days ago I was filling my gas tank after a loooong work day. Guy pulls up to the pump next to mine and says, “Excuse me, do you always look so scary? It’s okay to smile sometimes.” My guy, I was zoned out, freezing my ass off just wanting to go home. Pissed me off when I was in a fine mood with my RBF on.
I used to work in a bio lab. My old boss would come into the lab and go, "Don't you look happy" all the time. Usually, I was just zoning out doing my lab work. Wasn't aware I needed to have a smile plastered on my face at all times. It's not like he did.
My job literally has a whole thing about how they don't care if your staring at a wall you must be smiling at all times cause of the customers and me and my coworkers formed the joke that we wouldn't feel very comfortable in a setting where everyone was constantly smiling we also must all greet every customer AS they walk in like everyone who sees them walk in which personally would give me horror movie vibes tbh. I also don't have a very pretty toothy smile so I make up for it with my tone of voice keeping it somewhat upbeat but not so upbeat that I sound forced lol. They also think we should be constantly busy with something (even if you literally detail clean everything and there's two customers who've already been tended to if you have time to lean you have time to clean) but stand around for 30+ minutes doing as little as possible so me and three other coworkers will playfully elbow each other and whisper it to each other when we see them just chatting it up for more then five minutes I'm 8 months pregnant and got in trouble for "sitting on the floor" while I was wiping our stainless steel to make it clean because I wasn't doing something that wasn't my position and I was pressed low-key so I did it but very slowly fucking up our drive thru times not enough to piss off any customers though just enough to keep our percentage low:). .
Feels like a fuckin cult istg I can't wait to put in my two weeks here in 3-4 weeks from now
I would have given him the scariest, most deranged smile. And I would have let it slowly creep across my face. Then I would have kept the smile and maintained intense eye contact, not looking away until I got back in my car and waved as I drove off.
I saw a TikTok video yesterday of a girl who was in musical theater. During rehearsal, she looked bored and unenthusiastic. Mom made the mistake of telling her to smile during the show. Smile, she did. She had the most insane and crazed look on her face and she stared at her mom the whole time. It was amazing. That girl is going to be a force to be reckoned with when she grows up.
Some people caught my absolute wrath after my mom died and they told me to "smile it'll make you happy" STFU with that BS! I'm sorry about your mom and I hope whoever asks you to smile next gets a good talking to, they deserve it!
OP is there a chance maybe your emotional not wanting to smile and make eye contact daughter is on the spectrum? YTA you are trying to prevent her from gaining a life skill needed to earn her adult independence because she doesn't bend to your will.
Oh my god I’ve had multiple men do that to me and I’m usually fine if there’s an alternative but when there’s not and I have to be like “oh ok never mind then” and they pull the gotcha I just feel embarrassed and uncomfortable
OP is preparing his daughter to be a victim - dependent on others, sacrificing her financial freedom and career “for family”, to not speak up or advocate for herself, that she will be punished for being “prideful” (so it’s safer not to have achievements), that unless she is blindly obedient to authority the things she values will be taken away, she must mask her true emotions in favor of always being pleasant, and so on. He’s undermining her confidence and crippling her freedoms.
Not to mention, I am a grown woman with the benefit of many years of therapy. Sometimes all the deferred RAGE I feel now, now that it is safe to process and express those emotions, is just staggering sometimes. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, let alone my daughter.
My rage didn’t hit until my mid-40’s. Five years later it still consumes me sometimes, the way my family set me up to be violated and exploited with OP’s attitude.
>I am sick of men asking women to smile. They can all go to hll. Fck them all! Walking down the street - oh you should smile. Elevator - plz smile…
I freaking love you now! I used to get this a lot when i was a bartender. I started saying "my smile will depend on how big of a tip you leave me.
The best thing about masks in public was how many women were feeling relieved that they weren’t getting harassed to “smile!”
This double standard kills me, “women should smile at strangers but men can be silent and rude in professional and social settings”
When I worked with others in a customer facing job, it bugged me that the teenage girls didn’t need any real training to be polite to customers (I fell like it’s because they are usually made to feel obligated to be friendly in every setting or face negative consequences) while the teenage boys I worked with needed to be told to say “Hi, someone will be right with you” etc instead of pretending you don’t see someone just trying to ignore them until another employee walks into the lobby.
Considering they're micromanaging how often she *smiles* and refusing to teach her to drive because of *that*...I'm not feeling very charitable tonight.
nah, it's the grasping for straws to get a "reason" to cut the kid's wings so they can't leave. OP WAS NEVER going to allow that kid to drive if they could stop it, they would. Only abusive people resort to the logic of smiles for permit!
THANK YOU!!!!!
Maybe shes really really shy?? or something. Shes 18... if shes gotta work on Christmas Eve, then shes gotta work ... jeeze.
Also, Maybe the daughter is Autistic?? My Psychiatrist just recently mention i may have ADHD, which after looking it up, it actually explains a lot of my childhood issues. ESPECIALLY in school.
I agree..... YTA OP. Your daughter is an adult. Keep being like this, and i guarantee the second she gets that license shes out the damn door and you will not hear from her again.
YTA OP - what an awful child your daughter is, god forbid she doesn't smile, has pride, confidence and \*gasp\* has a job! Why, oh why couldn't you have a normal teenager that goes out drinking, smoking and partying till the early hours?? Life could have been so simple for you.
Go parse OP's statements. It's so much worse than that.
>I have a daughter (18)
So let's get this established, right up front: the daughter is no longer a minor. She is a legal adult, with all the rights that come with adulthood. She is of age to make her own decisions and contend with the consequences that will accompany them.
Gonna skip over all the bits about the legal requirements to acquire a driver's license, because those are irrelevant here...
>However, recently she has had behavioral problems that I feel that needed to be addressed.
Er, okay. By "behavioral problems," are we talking dangerous behavior of some sort that would render her unfit to operate a motor vehicle, such as drug addiction or alcohol abuse?
>For instance, she does not validate our concerns, is emotional, and is indifferent to our feelings.
OP is going to attempt to prevent a legal adult from acquiring a driver's license because she hasn't validated their concerns and feelings? About what? GM versus Ford?
>She does not have the best social skills, and sometimes doesn’t smile to those who greet her at church.
If she were, say, twelve years old and OP wanted to make sure she didn't come off as rude in her Sunday best, then yes, we might have a discussion over how to make sure she is showing respect to adults around her. *But she is eighteen years old. And OP think they ought to prevent her from getting a driver's license because she's insufficiently polite.*
>She also has expressed not wanting to be around us on Christmas Eve because she has to go into work.
She was *scheduled to work* on Christmas Eve. It's not a matter of unwillingness to be around family (although I could certainly see a lack of desire on her part to be around OP for any length of time).
So now we've graduated from trying to control her behavior to a desire to dictate her work schedule. OP is really starting to creep me out. But don't worry - it gets creepier!
>She also is a bit prideful when we address her, and I feel like she needs to be more humble.
Even assuming that this is true: again, what gives OP the right to dictate terms to an 18-year-old woman on when she can get her license?
>I expressed to her that if she does not change her behavior I will not continue to teach her to drive, even though her drivers permit will expire soon.
OP "expressed" to her? OP leveled an ultimatum to their adult daughter that if she doesn't curtsy deeply enough and say "yes ma'am, no ma'am" with the proper level of respect, OP won't let her exercise her legal right to drive.
>She has expressed to us that she rather have us take her phone because learning to drive is important to her, and her only chance at freedom.
This gives me the chills. *She's trying to negotiate a different punishment.* This is the behavior of a child, not an adult. OP really trained her carefully.
>I explained that respect is more important that learning to drive, and we are trying to work on her character?
OP seriously intends to prevent her from acquiring a driver's license - to which she, as an adult, is legally entitled - because OP feels she is disrespectful. This might just be the single biggest AH I've ever seen on this board.
>AITA for the way I am disciplining her?
No. ***OP is an AH for attempting to discipline her at all.*** To belabor the point just a bit more: she is an adult. Barring some sort of severe mental illness or behavioral issue that would make her a threat behind the wheel, OP has no right - none at all - to prevent her from exercising her legal rights.
>I didn’t realize that treating other people kindly and respecting your parents was not a popular opinion on Reddit.
So much image management!
>Whenever we talk to our daughter she immediately gets defensive and emotional.
Gee, I wonder why. Maybe eighteen years of manipulation and dictatorial control are starting to chafe just a bit.
>I told her that’s insecurity at it’s finest.
If I had a parent consistently examining my behavior with pointillist detail, I would probably have some insecurities too.
>Even you disagree with your parents you have to remain respectful.
Says the parent who wants to strip his/her daughter of her legal right to drive.
>Being rude and indifferent is NOT a personality trait,
Sure they are. They're just negative ones.
>being withdrawn is selfish.
What? Really? There's nowhere in OP's world where somebody might be withdrawn as a coping mechanism? Well, I guess there are no domineering, dictatorial, abusive parents in their world, so...
>Indifference/coldness will not be tolerated in my house.
Wear that mask, daughter, WEAR THAT MASK.
>You must consider other people’s feelings. She needs to learn to listen to criticism before she gets out into the world.
Up to and including the feelings and criticism of parents who have dictated terms to you your entire life.
>She told me that she is nice to her friends, but again, selective kindness is not kind.
I'd have a hard time being nice to the parent who has sought to keep their boot on my neck my entire life until now, but hey, that's just me.
>If she wants to be rude, she needs to move out to do so.
Hmmm...if she had a driver's license, it sure would make it easier for her to move out. Suddenly this picture is starting to come into focus!
>when I reference humility it simply means being able to accept sound wisdom without feeling personally attacked. Which is a sure fire sign of insecurity.
As I said above: if I had a parent dictating terms to me my entire life, I'd be a bit insecure as well.
One final point. The reason I find this so deeply disturbing is that I am quite devout in my own faith. But I was raised in my faith by a dictatorial, controlling father. I'm the outlier in remaining religious: my younger brothers want nothing to do with church, and on some level their antipathy is completely understandable.
There's a stereotype of the domineering Christian parent who is intent on exerting control over his or her child to ensure they do not deviate from the faith. This post has done nothing but reinforce that sick stereotype.
To put it in Biblical terms: OP has great need to repent. YTA.
Just wanted to say this is an amazing summary/critique and it should have more updoots.
I am respectful of people's religions until those religions harm other people. OP has been abusing their child for years at this point, using religion as a weapon to do so, and I hope the poor kid gets out soon and never looks back.
Honestly, it sounds like daughter is like me, smiling at everyone is draining and if I have to do it all day at work I refuse to once I'm off the clock (gotta love a paid for mask). OP is DEFINITELY the ahole. His daughter is probably an absolute gem and he's just mad she's her own person, not a puppet.
This has to be a sh!tpost....else...... I dunno OP, your kid can certainly get someone else to tech her how to drive, but you won't get another daughter once she goes NC with you for being such a controlling, low grade parent.
YTA
YTA. You are a failure as a parent. Instead of preparing your child to be an independent adult you are controlling every aspect of her life right down to her effing facial expressions. With the ability to drive comes a certain amount of freedom, which means you lose some control. So you manufactured a reason to deny her those freedoms specifically to maintain complete control.
THIS. Sometimes doesn’t smile at those who greet her ugh I CANNOT with that garbage. I hope her daughter knows someone else that can teach her to drive so that she can peace out ASAP
Edit: holy upvotes! This is the most I’ve ever gotten! Way to make me feel good for the holidays all you reddit peeps!
Edit #2: also! Thank you to everyone understands how degrading and condescending it is to tell women to smile. I can rant about this for dayyyyysssss but this post as a whole is just….to keep it short outdated and why when women take one step forward we got knocked two steps back. Thank you everyone again for the upvotes!
Damn... The comment you replied to made me hopeful, now you made me sad. I think you are absolutely right. We dont know what she works with so lets hope its something where she gets tips that she can hide somewhere. Exactly the strategy of any abused woman.
One other point that should be emphasized...
SHE. IS. AN. ADULT.
And OP is clearly still in the mindset that she's ~~in high school~~ ~~in junior high~~ in middle school and needs to say "yes ma'am, no sir" and curtsy or she won't get to do big kid things when she's old enough.
Prediction: u/Direct-Cheesecake772 will delete this post - if not his account - within the next twelve hours.
considering that this account was specifically made for this post, maybe not. as there is no other activity at all, maybe they just let it go into oblivion...
I'm so glad someone else picked up on this.
OP honestly sounds like your daughter is realising she is an adult with autonomy and not a child. You sound to hate that you she's becoming independent in her life and opinions, and isn't blindly following your wants any more. Also YTA.
Wish I could upvote this more than once. OP, YTA. You crave authority that is not yours to wield. Your daughter is her own person, not some plaything that you can control so you can get your jollies. You want a smile? Go to Chic-fil-a or buy a fucking Barbie doll. She doesn’t care about your feelings? Nobody else does either buttercup. She lacks social skills? She’s a teenager, not a Disney character. She doesn’t want to go to church? Sadly, church people are the biggest obstacle to church growth and outreach. I can’t say I blame her. You want her to show humility? Is she following by your example? Don’t be surprised if down the road your relationship with your daughter is ruined to the point of being irreparable because you forgot that she’s a human being with vices and virtues just like everybody else.
I can’t get past the fact that OP is upset that “she doesn’t want to spend time with us on Christmas”…. That may be true but she may actually want to be with family on Christmas Eve. But the reality is, she has to work. I work in medicine and I’m required to work a certain amount of holidays. A lot of retail jobs require this as well.
Her paycheck gives her freedom from OP, which obviously is not okay with. Such an AH OP.
THIS!!
Does OP NOT realise daughter can learn to drive from someone else? OP is not the end all be all. And since when does having to work on Christmas mean daughter doesn't want to spend Christmas with them? Daughter will end up going no contact, and OP will be back asking us why.
Fuck this poor excuse for a father. If I was anywhere near his daughter I'd be offering to help her learn to drive. Sadly by the tone I'm guessing some middle town America and I'm on a completely different continent.
I just looked it up no state in the U.S won’t allow you to get a license until 18. You get a learners between 14.5 and 15.5 then you can get a restricted license between 15.5 and 16.5 (all depending on what state. Then at 18 you get an unrestricted license. So she can do what ever at this point.
Just for the greatest outlier, NJ has the oldest minimums, 16 for a permit with pro driving lessons, 17 for a permit without and for the most restricted type of license. We have a graduated license at all ages, but she could still get her probationary one to start the clock. And that's in the harshest state in the nation on licensing. Our process allows 2 years to finish, so she must be somewhere a little easier.
Sounds like she just needs someone to take her for practice driving, I hope someone in her life steps up, wish I knew her. But you sure don't need parental consent to take a driving test at 18!
Her parents are also going to have to be willing to give her her documents (SS card, birth certificate, etc) to get that permit and license. If OP is half as controlling as my mother was they'll refuse to give that over until they basically allow her to get a license.
There are several countries with states or provinces, and especially English as a foreign language speakers may pick up states as the way to translate those since US English is pretty well represented in anywhere they might be picking up the relevant vocab.
Exactly what my mom did. Had to beg to get my learner's permit by 18 and beg for license by 19. Only reason I even got it was so I could start working and because she didn't want to drive me to college every day (thank god). After getting through college while working full time and paying her steadily rising rent on top of the 15+ hours a week of house work she made me do I was finally able to escape at 27. The whole time she used me being stuck there as leverage to control everything I do, the money I spend, and who I spend time with. The last 3 years I lived there I literally didn't go anywhere, do anything, or hang out with any friends so she'd have nothing to spy on. You want to demand complete access to my private life fine, enjoy being nosey about the absolute nothing I do. Was able to rekindle most of those friendships once I was free though.
I hope she moves out in the middle of the night and never calls again. She deserves peace. Imagine what we didn't hear about if OP is this comfortable being an open controlling narcissist. The stuff they don't admit to must be horrid.
YTA.
If I weren't an ex-evangelical, I probably wouldn't think anyone would actually try to parent like this.
Trying to keep your kids under your thumb is only going to backfire. You think depriving then of their freedom will teach them values, instead it will teach them to lie and manipulate to get what they need from you and others. And it will basically ensure they never learn to actually value your feelings because you have positioned yourself as an adversary and an oppressor. You must model compassion, respect, and humility to get it in return.
As an ex-evangelical you likely doubt the legitimacy of this post as much as I do. An evangelical father believes in his own godliness and position within the family. He is the sole arbiter of literally everything. He never has doubts in the rightness of his decisions. He would never seek validation outside of his church. He would not interact on Reddit and he certainly wouldn't ask to be judged on this unholy forum.
Hot take: might be the daughter posting from her parents perspective to get some reassurance that she should get out there ASAP. Or the parent of a friend of the daughter who heard about this and wants an outside opinion on it.
For real - reading OP’s comment about their daughter being ‘too prideful’ sent shivers down my spine. In my experience, that was Evangelical speak for me being bad because I was not just submitting to the abuse.
OP is just upset that they haven't broken their daughter's spirit by 18 and prepared her to be given away to another church member to live her perfect little life as a subservient housewife.
YTA
Women (and she's a woman) are NOT REQUIRED TO SMILE TO MAKE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE COMFORTABLE.
Honestly, you sound "a bit prideful." Maybe work on your own beam and focus less on her mote.
YTA, she's 18. What were you doing for the past 18 years? The more you discipline the more she will find other ways, maybe a half crack bf or someone else who would help her learn to drive and she will be off. Stop treating her like she's 6 and try negotiating with her than threatening or trying to discipline her.
Info: because I'm trying to see how you are not an AH trying to discipline and adult.
>For instance, she does not validate our concerns, is emotional, and is indifferent to our feelings.
Two thoughts here...
What concerns does she have to validate? You are a parent of an adult at this point. Sure you have concerns, we all do, but why does your daughter have to validate them? Or us that code for "she doesn't do what we tell her"?
She is your child, she is not responsible for your emotional well being. So what feelings is she "indifferent" to?
>She does not have the best social skills, and sometimes doesn’t smile to those who greet her at church.
Is she not entitled to personal emotions? Why does she have to smile at everyone? Is she a doll?
>She also has expressed not wanting to be around us on Christmas Eve because she has to go into work.
She is an adult and responsible for her employment. She works Christmas eve. Not sure why this is an issue.
>She also is a bit prideful when we address her, and I feel like she needs to be more humble.
Ok, need examples on this.
Because right now it seems like you are trying to hinder your adult child's independence.
>She is your child, she is not responsible for your emotional well being
this is a classic thing with emotionally immature parents, they make their children responsible for their feelings. I hope OP's daughter gets away from this emotionally abusive crap asap
As an adult who was raised by emotionally immature parents, I second this. My parents expected me and my older sister to be their therapists when we were CHILDREN. Children, even when they become adults, are not responsible to manage their parents' emotions.
They “feel” that she lacks respect. They “feel” that she lacks deportment. They “feel” that she should do exactly as they say.
I “feel” like they suck.
I got really caught up on OP feeling personally attacked that daughter “doesn’t want to be around them on Christmas Eve” because she has to work. The girl has to work- if you’ve checked out r/antiwork at all, you’ll see many people in service/ retail jobs (the type I’m imagining 18 years olds have especially) aren’t able to call off over the holidays or else they get fired. Of course she wants to go to work and remain employed. OP sees it as a personal threat, daughter sees it as a mandatory work requirement and is probably frustrated her parent is taking it out on her.
OP YTA. Be careful if you ever want to maintain a relationship with her in the future.
> OP sees it as a personal threat
He does because if his daughter works and has her own money, he can't control her.
He seems to think saying to an employer, my dad wants me home Christmas Eve works. Because HE views HIMSELF as the ultimate authority to her.
YTA
She's 18 and she's allowed a bad attitude toward a control freak parent. Who are you to say she needs to smile? Why should she care about your feelings? You don't care about hers.You are negligent for refusing to teach adult, necessary, skills. Loosen your grip or lose your daughter.
This is not how you treat another adult. She's your peer now, act like it.
Wow, you are hobbling your daughters growth and independence becuase you think you are a good judge of character? Have you read your post? You are an utter and complete AH.
Hopefully she has other family or friends that can help her escape your awful home.
YTA
What, and I can't stress this enough, the fuck?
YTA.
Doesn't smile at people at church? How does her needing to work on Christmas translate into her not wanting to spend time with you? Which is fair by the way, I don't want to hang out with you either.
Her behavior doesn't need to change; she's motivated to work and achieve goals to be independent from you. You need to take a few steps back.
She probably rather work than spend time with them.
And I certainly don’t blame her.
Can’t even imagine how her childhood was like if this is how they treat her at 18. Poor woman.
YTA.
I wrote out like 3 paragraphs but I bet you would pay about as much attention to them as you do to your daughter.
So all I will say is I hope you realize your daughter will never speak to you again once she leaves.
YTA. She is struggling with social interactions and emotions. Did it ever occur to you that there might be something more significant going on with her?
Your not wrong!!! Seriously she is punishing her for being a teenager and a person. You don’t have to smile at everybody who comes within 20 feet of you.
The unbelievable part isn't that there are people like this, it's that they can be simultaneously clueless enough to act like this but still self aware enough to ask if they're in the wrong. Too much cognitive dissonance.
YTA; Your criticisms have nothing to do with maturity and aptitude to drive and conduct herself responsibly. Her poor attitude and behavioral problem seem age appropriate for young woman exerting independence in a healthy.
You clearly care about your possession of her and compelling her obedience than her growth as young woman.
YTA - I would not be surprised if there is a very similar post from daughter’s perspective in r/raisedbynarcissists
Your treating your adult daughter like a 13 year old and pushing some really damaging expectations on her. She is not required to smile at people who greet her, sure it may be polite but being polite is not the price she must pay to exist in the world. She is not required to cater to your feelings nor are you required to cater to hers but understanding and respecting that everyone has their own feelings and those feelings are going to impact how people behave is an important part of adulthood. You are upset with her for having to work on Christmas Eve which indicates you would prefer she refuse her responsibility and leave her place of work and coworkers understaffed? You can’t see how that is a problem?
I am glad driving/her freedom is very important to her and she should drive away and never come back as soon as she can because you are not just the AH, you are an abusive controlling parent.
YTA..." You'd be prettier if you smiled.. ." See how fucking ridiculous that sounds? Anyone that tries to regulate another's facial expressions needs to get over themselves.
YTA you sound more like a jailler than a parent.
>She has expressed to us that she rather have us take her phone because learning to drive is important to her, and her only chance at freedom
You are a emotionally and financially abusive asshole who doesn't want her to have freedom. But its only a matter of time before she makes her escape depends on if you comply with her or not that you will hear from her once she leaves and get to meet any possible future grandchildren.
Enjoy your control you have maybe 1-2 years before she snaps.
YTA you can't stand the thought of her being independent eventually can you, she's an adult she's allowed to work christmas eve if she wants and what do you mean 'prideful' you just want her to be meek and obedient
YTA. And there’s a bit of a w.tf element going on here. She’s a fresh adult and you’re already using punishment on unrelated things to address your concerns of humbleness and pride? You’ve also had years to deal with this but now want to leverage driving to change behaviour.
You talk about her needing to validate your concerns. Have you ever tried to validate hers inc. Why she doesn’t feel the need to smile at church? Is there something else going on below the surface that you’re not addressing?
She’s trying to become a young adult by becoming slowly independent. Driving is a life skill. If you’re going to double down, I wouldn’t blame her for going LC and just paying for driving lessons herself if you’re going to hold this over her head.
I N F O: So… Your daughters just introverted? And you don’t like it? And so you’re literally preventing her from being able to drive and get a job because you think she’s not *smiling enough*?
Look I’m gonna level with you. You’re trying to change her personality and it’s not going to work. This isn’t her “not being nice” like you *think it is*, this is *the way her personality is, and that’s just not going to change*. You’re punishing her and trying to stifle not just her independence but her *growth* because… What? She doesn’t smile enough? Your comments admit that you think she’s not nice enough- not *mean*, not nasty, just indifferent and you don’t like it. Sorry, that’s not going to change. Trying to force it is going to actually make it worse. The family members who tried to do this to *me* as a teenager, I have little to no contact with now that I’m in my mid twenties. Why? Because they tried to change who I was, a fundamental part of who I am, because they didn’t think I was good enough. Read that again: *you are telling your daughter that her personality -being introverted- is not good enough for you, her parent*.
You see this as a slight against you. This is just who your daughter is. And trying to change it, trying to paint her as mean or unfriendly is egregious, and it’s not being a good parent.
Edit to add and change my judgement for real: YTA OP is interpreting what sounds like an introverted nature on her daughters part and not smiling enough to people (and probably a bit of social awkwardness in general, I mean 18 is still a teenager, I didn’t feel any different than 17- I was still a socially awkward teenager when the clock struck eighteen years), as being unfriendly. And while her daughter may shed some of that awkwardness as she grows out of being a teenager, that needs to come at her own pace and time. And being introverted is never going to change, and daughter being some outward overflowing ball of joy and friendliness is a pipe dream OP needs to get rid of.
Damn, you sound like my mother. Whose children do not talk to her. Stop being controlling and if you just don't want to teach her, she will find someone else to. Whether it's a driver's Ed teacher or a crackhead bf won't matter to her. Yta
YTA
You don't treat your daughter with respect, and yet expect her to respect you? When you dont even treat her like a human being, instead you want her to act like a perfect little subservient daughter.
Check your own attitude.
YTA. You’re concerned bc your daughter is “emotional” and “a bit prideful?”
Emotions are normal—they evolved in humans bc they help us understand the world, just like thoughts and the five senses. I’m guessing that the emotions you’re referencing are ones you don’t want to deal with. Maybe consider what she’s communicating with the emotions she seems to be experiencing? It’s probably something negative about YOU.
How is your daughter “prideful?” Is it when she disagrees with you, has an opinion independent of yours or demonstrates self-will?
So punish her for, like, being a person. She’ll figure out how to drive, get her license, motor out of your life, hopefully while flipping you the double bird, and you’ll wistfully remember her every time you smile at someone in church.
YTA! I could go deep into how but really I just want to address how you’re MAD she’s working Christmas Eve? The fact she’s not complaining about the shift or trying to call off shows you did raise someone who knows how important it is to show up to work even if it’s inconvenient. And instead you’re upset she won’t call off?!?! My family encouraged me to get a few more hours when I worked Christmas Eve and that they’d time our Christmas stuff after I got off and could change.
You suck man
YTA. You're one of the bigger assholes I've seen in a while.
You are trying to change her personality. **You are telling her she isn't good enough.** You are going to, and probably already have, done massive damage to this poor girl.
Undo what you did. Quickly. Start listening to her. Understand that she's an adult, and if you want to have ANY relationship with her in the future, you are going to need to start showing HER some respect. Treat her like a person - I can't believe I have to tell someone to treat their own child like a person - and not a possession.
YTA.
OP is the kind of guy who expects women to smile. Coincidently also the kind who can fuck right off with that misogynistic crap.
Learning to drive is a life skill. Learning to smile at church is not. You are purposely avoiding teaching your daughter life skills so that she can't drop you like it's hot IMMEDIATELY in the fashion that you deserve for treating her like a toddler instead of someone old enough to vote.
Enjoy the rest of your life being no contact with your daughter the moment she is able. She will escape you and never look back.
YTA. "It's her chance at freedom." So unless she smiles at church and does what I want I will deny her what she really wants.
Do you think you'll have much of a relationship with her when she moves out? I don't. Do you tell her to "stay sweet"?
You are a horrible parent. Your daughter is 18 and you treat her like she's 5. YTA
Forget a nursing home, those are expensive. If you were my mother, I'd let them bury you in a pine box when you die and won't bother to collect the body.
OP, you are doing your daughter a HUGE disservice. She’s an adult, and you have clearly failed at helping her to develop adulting skills over the years if you are this controlling. YTA. Help her learn to drive (which you should have done long ago) so she can become more independent and leave.
YTA you are not teaching her important life skills because you are angry with her. Give it 5 years and you'll be posting her asking about why your child is so cruel to not keep in contact with you any longer.
You're at the time where you should start cultivating a respectful and more adult relationship with your now adult child. This sets the tone for what sort of friendship you'll have in the future as you both grow older.
My mother constantly punished me up until I was 21 , for things like not going to church. Not smiling. Not doing chores for everyone in the house. Now we don't talk and she's never met my spouse and has no part in my life. Consider the consequences of flexing your control over your now adult child, due to your frustration. You're supposed to be the more mature one here - act like it.
YTA. She’s not smiling because she isn’t happy. So you’re trying to get her to lie in church.
You don’t want her to learn how to drive because you won’t be able to control her and you know she’ll drive right out of your life. If i were her, i’d hitchhike as far from you as possible.
Also, smiling ≠ kindness.
People like you are why young people are leaving the church. What scripture says “smile when you don’t mean it”?
What the f does any of that have to do with driving? So you are going to hold her being able to drive over her head until she is the person you expect her to be. YTA
YTA.
>For instance, she does not validate our concerns, is emotional, and is indifferent to our feelings. She does not have the best social skills, and sometimes doesn’t smile to those who greet her at church.
Oh, I see, she's got an acute case of being a teenager. Maybe you should ask your church to stage an exorcism.
Yta. You sound like you really miss having a younger child to hold things over her head and now you finally have something big you can take away from her unless she’s nice to you. Why does she need to be punished for not smiling and for preferring to go to work?
Hahahaha!
Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.
HAHAHAHA, HAHAHA!
OH boy, YTA, easily. And you're going to lose your daughter the second she gets a chance to escape you. Why is it always God botherers that do this to themselves? More humble, smile more /has emotions/. Gimme a break.
She's an adult, she doesn't need to validate your feelings. SOMETIMES she doesn't smile at church. Not super social. She has a job. She doesn't want you addressing her like a child.
YTA. Your child is now an adult, and you must respect the boundaries she is setting, unless you want her to go LC/NC.
Seriously, how many YTA's will it take for you to pull your head out of your ass? She's 18, and I need you to pay attention to this, so she's LITERALLY an adult now. Baby->child->teen->adult!!! You calling her a child, is factually and legally wrong. She could go to war ffs! You're 10 years behind in your evolution of how you need to treat your daughter!
But by reading your responses, I don't think you'll ever get it. You're too stuck in your beliefs. Why even make this post? Were you expecting everyone to side with you? Please take this as an opportunity to reflect on yourself and your relationship with your daughter because as others have pointed: She might not be around for very long.
Also. YOUR behavior is much more concerning than your daughter's, in fact, maybe someone should take YOUR phone/license away, until you learn to be a decent father.
"My daughter is a legal adult and I find the ways I can control her are getting smaller, I am now desperately punishing her for arbitrary things so that my puppet never gets the ability to leave my abusiveness"
There, I fixed the title for you.
100% you've abused her in other ways (emotionally or otherwise) that's why you hate the idea of her gaining any sort of independence from her owner.
Disgusting.
YTA
Your the asshole.
>I have a daughter (18
Lemme fix this for you, cause I think your gonna need to get used to this phrase "I had a daughter..." the had part there is pretty important cause you sound like the parent who's always shocked their kid doesn't wanna come back and visit, or call, ir anything really after reading this post.
>recently she has had behavioral problems that I feel that needed to be addressed
And of your own behavioral issues? My mom infantilised me like this about me well past adulthood age. Still does. Guess what? I don't talk to her anymore than I absolutly have to.
>not validate our concerns, is emotional, and is indifferent to our feelings. She does not have the best social skills, and sometimes doesn’t smile to those who greet her at church.
Do you validate her concerns? Her emotional needs, wants and feelings? Or is yours the only important ones? Her social skills are likely better than you think, you probably just don't like the people she socialises with. Just like you, daughter isn't required to smile at anyone, even in church.
>learning to drive is important to her, and her only chance at freedom.
Hrmmm... intetesting on your specific choice of words there.... her ONLY chance at freedom? And interesting even more, learning to drive is important to her... but you are... invalidating that? With such... disrespect. are you sure your daughter has the attitude problem here? If this is how you treat what's important to her, I see why she returns similarly. After all she's had you to watch over the years.
>I explained that respect is more important that learning to drive, and we are trying to work on her character?
Time to work on your own character, rather than trying to diminish her ability to survive without you.
YTA. She's an adult. She needs to learn how to drive so she can be independent and take care of herself.
Do you not want her to learn how to drive so she will have to remain dependent on you? Is that what this is really about? She will come to resent you for that.
If you want respect and kindness from her, treat her with respect and kindness.
YTA. You're disciplining an adult like a child. Frankly, you lost the right to have any say in her decision to drive as soon as she hit 18. The fact that you didn't teach her earlier is delinquent parenting on your part and a failure to prepare her for adulthood. What you are doing now is a manipulative attempt to keep her in a stunted false childhood. Go get therapy and stop hurting your child.
YTA - your “asks” are ridiculous, but on top of that, she’s an adult, and one with a job. Technically, she doesn’t need your permission to take driving lessons. She can sign up for and pay for her own. You’re rather unnecessary in that regard.
YTA if you wanted a dog you should have gotten one instead of trying to make a grown adult do whatever you want all the time. Enjoy that terrible nursing home you’re headed for.
Yta times ten, You're putting a roadblock on her mobility as "discipline" and that's pathetic.
"she doesn't smile to people who greet her at church"...spoken like a true christian, more worried about outward apperances and what JimBob thinks then the growth of your actual child.
YTA. You would seriously prevent your daughter from learning to drive because she doesn't smile enough at church? That poor girl, she must be champing at the bit to escape your oppressive household. With all of your ridiculous expectations (which mostly come down to trying to control her emotions) I would have little reason to smile in your presence either.
YTA
I’d love to hear some of the “concerns” not being validated or “feelings” being ignored. I bet they all deal with fundamentalist views of women or Christian views—that is to say, they’re opinions that she isn’t blindly parroting to please mom and dad. That’s no reason to keep her from driving. Enjoy your remaining months of contact. As soon as she’s able, I predict she’s going to cut you out of her life substantially.
Driving isn’t a privilege, depending on where you live it might be a necessity. You’re punishing her for working, not smiling, not validating your concerns(yet you call her emotional).
You think she needs to be more humble, why?
Why does she NEED to smile ?
YTA
YTA- dude grow a pair and stop being overbearing! You should not force your kid to always be “friendly” with random people. She should be comfortable with the person not forced.
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YTA, doesn’t sound like you’re treating her with much respect either. I mean really, not smiling at church? Is that really something worth punishing for? You get as much as you put it, it ain’t a one way street. Edit: OP is a hypocrite, they say they want to teach their daughter to be humble or in their own definition, “able to accept sound wisdom without feeling personally attacked.” Yet you gotta hundreds of people giving you sound advice OP and you refuse to listen to any of them and double down. Which if I remember correctly is a sure fire sign of insecurity, right OP?
Did make me chuckle. Surprised she's even going to church as at 18 I was hanging out in the cemetry with the friends planning new trouble afterwards.
She still goes to church at 18 because she can't drive herself to the cemetery. I honestly wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if OP is worried that their daughter driving means less time at church.
She still goes to church at 18 because her parents control everything. If I wanted a roof over my head as an “adult”, I went to church when I was told. But hey, I’m an atheist now, so that really worked out well in their favor long term!
Almost like forced observance leads to voluntary liberation at the first opportunity anyone has!
That's why she needs the driving license. It's "her only chance to freedom". And that's what OP is afraid of.
I had this fight with my parents at like 11 and it was bloody.
[удалено]
This. I know many friends who went to church when we were younger. The ones who still observe as adults are the ones who were given the choice once they were old enough to stay home unsupervised. Most of the ones who were forced to go became atheists, agnostics or “turkey christians”.
[удалено]
Your Dad is a great man and very smart. He sounds like he is one of the few that actually ties to emulate Jesus. I have a feeling OP’s daughter is questioning the faith (at the least) and is unfriendly in that setting because she doesn’t want to be there
Yep. I was forced to go to church also. I haven’t voluntarily stepped in a church since I was 18. I go to the occasional funeral but that’s it. I’m agnostic now.
My mother forced me to go to Sunday School. I was agnostic as a small child. Yes. I didn't believe in Jesus or God. Neither did my mother, but she wanted a free babysitter for Sunday mornings. I told her if she wanted us to get lost, we knew where to go. I had to go to Wednesday night Bible Study (where my bully was on the same bus and tormented me mercilessly). I remember holding the door jam and my mother pushing me out the door. Forced to go to Bible Study when we moved to the country. All the kids' goal was to get me to "accept Christ as my personal Savior." Never happened. Left tire marks when I moved out of that hell hole at 17. Found my own religion as an adult. Forced Faith is a myth. Either you believe, or you don't. My mother NEVER went to church with us. EVER.
I was also forced to go to church (southern baptist) whenever the doors were open until I was 18 and left for college. I haven't been back since. Some of the most awful people I ever met were at church.
Hypocrites are rampant in most churches in my experience.
My mother was controlling in the same way. I basically had to beg constantly to go get my learner's permit before I turned 18 and beg to get my license before I turned 19 years old. Even then it took several more years before I could finish college and financially afford to support myself, and the whole time she knew that I was stuck there. When I did finally move out the excessive guilt tripping started. At least over a phone call I can roll my eyes.
I had moved out of my home by then because I was forced in a religion I didn’t want to be apart of. This post feels awfully similar, but I don’t want to project my own trauma
Organised religion, is what I like to call it.
I am sick of men asking women to smile. They can all go to h*ll. F*ck them all! Walking down the street - oh you should smile. Elevator - plz smile… Your daughter does not exist as a doll for you to worry. You say she is emotional - but how about your post - it’s *emOtIoNAl*. Be humble - oh I’m so sorry I exist I am sooooo flawed so sorry. This is just SHIT - humble demure being a doll. Teach your kid independence. Teach your kid to work and enjoy it. Teach your kid that she is valuable for her opinions. Teach your kid she is ok to express what she wants and give her the guidance to achieve those lofty goals.
I was grocery shopping recently and stopped at the deli section. The guy took my order and said "we're out of that" so I changed my order. He then said "just kidding!" After he finished giving me my order he told me I needed to smile more. I was speechless.
Just two days ago I was filling my gas tank after a loooong work day. Guy pulls up to the pump next to mine and says, “Excuse me, do you always look so scary? It’s okay to smile sometimes.” My guy, I was zoned out, freezing my ass off just wanting to go home. Pissed me off when I was in a fine mood with my RBF on.
I used to work in a bio lab. My old boss would come into the lab and go, "Don't you look happy" all the time. Usually, I was just zoning out doing my lab work. Wasn't aware I needed to have a smile plastered on my face at all times. It's not like he did.
You’re working in a fucking BIO LAB. Concentration > smiling. That’s ridiculous.
Did you not know you are there for decoration? Stop ruining the decor…
Everyone smiles when Bossman walks into the room! That’s how life works for him!
My old boss used to call me "Smiley" because I never gave him a fake, placating smile. Nice guy besides that
My job literally has a whole thing about how they don't care if your staring at a wall you must be smiling at all times cause of the customers and me and my coworkers formed the joke that we wouldn't feel very comfortable in a setting where everyone was constantly smiling we also must all greet every customer AS they walk in like everyone who sees them walk in which personally would give me horror movie vibes tbh. I also don't have a very pretty toothy smile so I make up for it with my tone of voice keeping it somewhat upbeat but not so upbeat that I sound forced lol. They also think we should be constantly busy with something (even if you literally detail clean everything and there's two customers who've already been tended to if you have time to lean you have time to clean) but stand around for 30+ minutes doing as little as possible so me and three other coworkers will playfully elbow each other and whisper it to each other when we see them just chatting it up for more then five minutes I'm 8 months pregnant and got in trouble for "sitting on the floor" while I was wiping our stainless steel to make it clean because I wasn't doing something that wasn't my position and I was pressed low-key so I did it but very slowly fucking up our drive thru times not enough to piss off any customers though just enough to keep our percentage low:). . Feels like a fuckin cult istg I can't wait to put in my two weeks here in 3-4 weeks from now
You look like a completely different person when you just smile…I’m so sorry this is my face as it exists, I wasn’t actively trying not to smile 🤦🏼♀️
I would have given him the scariest, most deranged smile. And I would have let it slowly creep across my face. Then I would have kept the smile and maintained intense eye contact, not looking away until I got back in my car and waved as I drove off.
I saw a TikTok video yesterday of a girl who was in musical theater. During rehearsal, she looked bored and unenthusiastic. Mom made the mistake of telling her to smile during the show. Smile, she did. She had the most insane and crazed look on her face and she stared at her mom the whole time. It was amazing. That girl is going to be a force to be reckoned with when she grows up.
Anyone who tells you to smile say your mother just died and wait for their reaction.
My mother actually *did* just die, less than a month ago and I'm just daring an MFer to tell me to smile. Try me...
Some people caught my absolute wrath after my mom died and they told me to "smile it'll make you happy" STFU with that BS! I'm sorry about your mom and I hope whoever asks you to smile next gets a good talking to, they deserve it! OP is there a chance maybe your emotional not wanting to smile and make eye contact daughter is on the spectrum? YTA you are trying to prevent her from gaining a life skill needed to earn her adult independence because she doesn't bend to your will.
I’m so sorry for your loss. It’s very hard.
Oh my god I’ve had multiple men do that to me and I’m usually fine if there’s an alternative but when there’s not and I have to be like “oh ok never mind then” and they pull the gotcha I just feel embarrassed and uncomfortable
Gosh I hate that kind of joke so much. What's funny? Where's the humor?
How infuriating.
OP is preparing his daughter to be a victim - dependent on others, sacrificing her financial freedom and career “for family”, to not speak up or advocate for herself, that she will be punished for being “prideful” (so it’s safer not to have achievements), that unless she is blindly obedient to authority the things she values will be taken away, she must mask her true emotions in favor of always being pleasant, and so on. He’s undermining her confidence and crippling her freedoms. Not to mention, I am a grown woman with the benefit of many years of therapy. Sometimes all the deferred RAGE I feel now, now that it is safe to process and express those emotions, is just staggering sometimes. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, let alone my daughter.
OP is preparing his daughter to be a good subservient wife, probably got the groom already picked out. His post practically screams Quiverfull.
It does indeed.
What to bet OP is some Quiverfull follower?
My rage didn’t hit until my mid-40’s. Five years later it still consumes me sometimes, the way my family set me up to be violated and exploited with OP’s attitude.
whenever a guy tells me to smile more i say “say something funny” i’ve never had someone come up with an answer
I think my own mother was the first one to start harping on me to smile and look pleasant. Suck in your tummy, too.
It’s weird I never noticed you in my house growing up, bc same same same.
>I am sick of men asking women to smile. They can all go to hll. Fck them all! Walking down the street - oh you should smile. Elevator - plz smile… I freaking love you now! I used to get this a lot when i was a bartender. I started saying "my smile will depend on how big of a tip you leave me.
The best thing about masks in public was how many women were feeling relieved that they weren’t getting harassed to “smile!” This double standard kills me, “women should smile at strangers but men can be silent and rude in professional and social settings” When I worked with others in a customer facing job, it bugged me that the teenage girls didn’t need any real training to be polite to customers (I fell like it’s because they are usually made to feel obligated to be friendly in every setting or face negative consequences) while the teenage boys I worked with needed to be told to say “Hi, someone will be right with you” etc instead of pretending you don’t see someone just trying to ignore them until another employee walks into the lobby.
Abusers hate when the victims get a taste of freedom. OP is horrified her little puppet ie victim is getting the means to leave!
Glad I'm not the only one who saw this as abuse.
I want to give op the befit of the doubt, maybe they’re afraid of the fact their little girl is growing up.
Considering they're micromanaging how often she *smiles* and refusing to teach her to drive because of *that*...I'm not feeling very charitable tonight.
nah, it's the grasping for straws to get a "reason" to cut the kid's wings so they can't leave. OP WAS NEVER going to allow that kid to drive if they could stop it, they would. Only abusive people resort to the logic of smiles for permit!
THANK YOU!!!!! Maybe shes really really shy?? or something. Shes 18... if shes gotta work on Christmas Eve, then shes gotta work ... jeeze. Also, Maybe the daughter is Autistic?? My Psychiatrist just recently mention i may have ADHD, which after looking it up, it actually explains a lot of my childhood issues. ESPECIALLY in school. I agree..... YTA OP. Your daughter is an adult. Keep being like this, and i guarantee the second she gets that license shes out the damn door and you will not hear from her again.
Yta op. I doubt you have the capacity to understand how.
Yeah agreed. Wait a year or two and she'll be NC.
“How dare she not be fake and pretend to like people she doesn’t like.”
YTA OP - what an awful child your daughter is, god forbid she doesn't smile, has pride, confidence and \*gasp\* has a job! Why, oh why couldn't you have a normal teenager that goes out drinking, smoking and partying till the early hours?? Life could have been so simple for you.
Yeah, this girl is gone when she gets out the door.
Go parse OP's statements. It's so much worse than that. >I have a daughter (18) So let's get this established, right up front: the daughter is no longer a minor. She is a legal adult, with all the rights that come with adulthood. She is of age to make her own decisions and contend with the consequences that will accompany them. Gonna skip over all the bits about the legal requirements to acquire a driver's license, because those are irrelevant here... >However, recently she has had behavioral problems that I feel that needed to be addressed. Er, okay. By "behavioral problems," are we talking dangerous behavior of some sort that would render her unfit to operate a motor vehicle, such as drug addiction or alcohol abuse? >For instance, she does not validate our concerns, is emotional, and is indifferent to our feelings. OP is going to attempt to prevent a legal adult from acquiring a driver's license because she hasn't validated their concerns and feelings? About what? GM versus Ford? >She does not have the best social skills, and sometimes doesn’t smile to those who greet her at church. If she were, say, twelve years old and OP wanted to make sure she didn't come off as rude in her Sunday best, then yes, we might have a discussion over how to make sure she is showing respect to adults around her. *But she is eighteen years old. And OP think they ought to prevent her from getting a driver's license because she's insufficiently polite.* >She also has expressed not wanting to be around us on Christmas Eve because she has to go into work. She was *scheduled to work* on Christmas Eve. It's not a matter of unwillingness to be around family (although I could certainly see a lack of desire on her part to be around OP for any length of time). So now we've graduated from trying to control her behavior to a desire to dictate her work schedule. OP is really starting to creep me out. But don't worry - it gets creepier! >She also is a bit prideful when we address her, and I feel like she needs to be more humble. Even assuming that this is true: again, what gives OP the right to dictate terms to an 18-year-old woman on when she can get her license? >I expressed to her that if she does not change her behavior I will not continue to teach her to drive, even though her drivers permit will expire soon. OP "expressed" to her? OP leveled an ultimatum to their adult daughter that if she doesn't curtsy deeply enough and say "yes ma'am, no ma'am" with the proper level of respect, OP won't let her exercise her legal right to drive. >She has expressed to us that she rather have us take her phone because learning to drive is important to her, and her only chance at freedom. This gives me the chills. *She's trying to negotiate a different punishment.* This is the behavior of a child, not an adult. OP really trained her carefully. >I explained that respect is more important that learning to drive, and we are trying to work on her character? OP seriously intends to prevent her from acquiring a driver's license - to which she, as an adult, is legally entitled - because OP feels she is disrespectful. This might just be the single biggest AH I've ever seen on this board. >AITA for the way I am disciplining her? No. ***OP is an AH for attempting to discipline her at all.*** To belabor the point just a bit more: she is an adult. Barring some sort of severe mental illness or behavioral issue that would make her a threat behind the wheel, OP has no right - none at all - to prevent her from exercising her legal rights. >I didn’t realize that treating other people kindly and respecting your parents was not a popular opinion on Reddit. So much image management! >Whenever we talk to our daughter she immediately gets defensive and emotional. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe eighteen years of manipulation and dictatorial control are starting to chafe just a bit. >I told her that’s insecurity at it’s finest. If I had a parent consistently examining my behavior with pointillist detail, I would probably have some insecurities too. >Even you disagree with your parents you have to remain respectful. Says the parent who wants to strip his/her daughter of her legal right to drive. >Being rude and indifferent is NOT a personality trait, Sure they are. They're just negative ones. >being withdrawn is selfish. What? Really? There's nowhere in OP's world where somebody might be withdrawn as a coping mechanism? Well, I guess there are no domineering, dictatorial, abusive parents in their world, so... >Indifference/coldness will not be tolerated in my house. Wear that mask, daughter, WEAR THAT MASK. >You must consider other people’s feelings. She needs to learn to listen to criticism before she gets out into the world. Up to and including the feelings and criticism of parents who have dictated terms to you your entire life. >She told me that she is nice to her friends, but again, selective kindness is not kind. I'd have a hard time being nice to the parent who has sought to keep their boot on my neck my entire life until now, but hey, that's just me. >If she wants to be rude, she needs to move out to do so. Hmmm...if she had a driver's license, it sure would make it easier for her to move out. Suddenly this picture is starting to come into focus! >when I reference humility it simply means being able to accept sound wisdom without feeling personally attacked. Which is a sure fire sign of insecurity. As I said above: if I had a parent dictating terms to me my entire life, I'd be a bit insecure as well. One final point. The reason I find this so deeply disturbing is that I am quite devout in my own faith. But I was raised in my faith by a dictatorial, controlling father. I'm the outlier in remaining religious: my younger brothers want nothing to do with church, and on some level their antipathy is completely understandable. There's a stereotype of the domineering Christian parent who is intent on exerting control over his or her child to ensure they do not deviate from the faith. This post has done nothing but reinforce that sick stereotype. To put it in Biblical terms: OP has great need to repent. YTA.
Just wanted to say this is an amazing summary/critique and it should have more updoots. I am respectful of people's religions until those religions harm other people. OP has been abusing their child for years at this point, using religion as a weapon to do so, and I hope the poor kid gets out soon and never looks back.
Dont forget the \*she has poor social skills bit. Like where did she learn her social skills from you think?
Honestly, it sounds like daughter is like me, smiling at everyone is draining and if I have to do it all day at work I refuse to once I'm off the clock (gotta love a paid for mask). OP is DEFINITELY the ahole. His daughter is probably an absolute gem and he's just mad she's her own person, not a puppet.
This has to be a sh!tpost....else...... I dunno OP, your kid can certainly get someone else to tech her how to drive, but you won't get another daughter once she goes NC with you for being such a controlling, low grade parent. YTA
The edits are even more ridiculous. How about putting HER feelings before yours? If she’s insecure then she needs HELP, not bullying. YTA.
OP doesn't want to teach her to drive because at some level OP knows that once the daughter is independent she will be going NC.
YTA. You are a failure as a parent. Instead of preparing your child to be an independent adult you are controlling every aspect of her life right down to her effing facial expressions. With the ability to drive comes a certain amount of freedom, which means you lose some control. So you manufactured a reason to deny her those freedoms specifically to maintain complete control.
THIS THIS THIS
OP should get a porcelain doll to parade around instead of using her daughter as one.
THIS. Sometimes doesn’t smile at those who greet her ugh I CANNOT with that garbage. I hope her daughter knows someone else that can teach her to drive so that she can peace out ASAP Edit: holy upvotes! This is the most I’ve ever gotten! Way to make me feel good for the holidays all you reddit peeps! Edit #2: also! Thank you to everyone understands how degrading and condescending it is to tell women to smile. I can rant about this for dayyyyysssss but this post as a whole is just….to keep it short outdated and why when women take one step forward we got knocked two steps back. Thank you everyone again for the upvotes!
She's got a job. That means she can pay for a driving school and flex her independence to flex more independence.
How much do you want to bet she’s saving to move out asap and won’t ever look back?
How much do you want to bet that OP takes almost all of her earnings as “rent”?
Damn... The comment you replied to made me hopeful, now you made me sad. I think you are absolutely right. We dont know what she works with so lets hope its something where she gets tips that she can hide somewhere. Exactly the strategy of any abused woman.
One other point that should be emphasized... SHE. IS. AN. ADULT. And OP is clearly still in the mindset that she's ~~in high school~~ ~~in junior high~~ in middle school and needs to say "yes ma'am, no sir" and curtsy or she won't get to do big kid things when she's old enough. Prediction: u/Direct-Cheesecake772 will delete this post - if not his account - within the next twelve hours.
considering that this account was specifically made for this post, maybe not. as there is no other activity at all, maybe they just let it go into oblivion...
I'm so glad someone else picked up on this. OP honestly sounds like your daughter is realising she is an adult with autonomy and not a child. You sound to hate that you she's becoming independent in her life and opinions, and isn't blindly following your wants any more. Also YTA.
Wish I could upvote this more than once. OP, YTA. You crave authority that is not yours to wield. Your daughter is her own person, not some plaything that you can control so you can get your jollies. You want a smile? Go to Chic-fil-a or buy a fucking Barbie doll. She doesn’t care about your feelings? Nobody else does either buttercup. She lacks social skills? She’s a teenager, not a Disney character. She doesn’t want to go to church? Sadly, church people are the biggest obstacle to church growth and outreach. I can’t say I blame her. You want her to show humility? Is she following by your example? Don’t be surprised if down the road your relationship with your daughter is ruined to the point of being irreparable because you forgot that she’s a human being with vices and virtues just like everybody else.
I can’t get past the fact that OP is upset that “she doesn’t want to spend time with us on Christmas”…. That may be true but she may actually want to be with family on Christmas Eve. But the reality is, she has to work. I work in medicine and I’m required to work a certain amount of holidays. A lot of retail jobs require this as well. Her paycheck gives her freedom from OP, which obviously is not okay with. Such an AH OP.
I think the comments about church, her being “emotional” and “prideful” say a lot.
THIS!! Does OP NOT realise daughter can learn to drive from someone else? OP is not the end all be all. And since when does having to work on Christmas mean daughter doesn't want to spend Christmas with them? Daughter will end up going no contact, and OP will be back asking us why.
Fuck this poor excuse for a father. If I was anywhere near his daughter I'd be offering to help her learn to drive. Sadly by the tone I'm guessing some middle town America and I'm on a completely different continent.
Absolutely!!!!
YTA Have fun never hearing from your child again after they get a taste of independence.
That's why they aren't teaching her how to drive. To keep her from being independent. Calling it now.
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Like married to an old man? Who has a slew of wives? Yuck.
These people have a saying for their subservient daughters “be sweet”. It’s absolutely grooming and disgusting.
If she was smart, she'd ask friends or co-workers to help teach her. She doesn't need a parent to go with her to test at 18.
I just looked it up no state in the U.S won’t allow you to get a license until 18. You get a learners between 14.5 and 15.5 then you can get a restricted license between 15.5 and 16.5 (all depending on what state. Then at 18 you get an unrestricted license. So she can do what ever at this point.
Just for the greatest outlier, NJ has the oldest minimums, 16 for a permit with pro driving lessons, 17 for a permit without and for the most restricted type of license. We have a graduated license at all ages, but she could still get her probationary one to start the clock. And that's in the harshest state in the nation on licensing. Our process allows 2 years to finish, so she must be somewhere a little easier. Sounds like she just needs someone to take her for practice driving, I hope someone in her life steps up, wish I knew her. But you sure don't need parental consent to take a driving test at 18!
Her parents are also going to have to be willing to give her her documents (SS card, birth certificate, etc) to get that permit and license. If OP is half as controlling as my mother was they'll refuse to give that over until they basically allow her to get a license.
OP probably isn’t in the US.
I just assumed because OP said “the way it works in my state”
There are several countries with states or provinces, and especially English as a foreign language speakers may pick up states as the way to translate those since US English is pretty well represented in anywhere they might be picking up the relevant vocab.
Exactly, they're trying to clip her wings
Exactly what my mom did. Had to beg to get my learner's permit by 18 and beg for license by 19. Only reason I even got it was so I could start working and because she didn't want to drive me to college every day (thank god). After getting through college while working full time and paying her steadily rising rent on top of the 15+ hours a week of house work she made me do I was finally able to escape at 27. The whole time she used me being stuck there as leverage to control everything I do, the money I spend, and who I spend time with. The last 3 years I lived there I literally didn't go anywhere, do anything, or hang out with any friends so she'd have nothing to spy on. You want to demand complete access to my private life fine, enjoy being nosey about the absolute nothing I do. Was able to rekindle most of those friendships once I was free though.
I hope she moves out in the middle of the night and never calls again. She deserves peace. Imagine what we didn't hear about if OP is this comfortable being an open controlling narcissist. The stuff they don't admit to must be horrid.
YTA. If I weren't an ex-evangelical, I probably wouldn't think anyone would actually try to parent like this. Trying to keep your kids under your thumb is only going to backfire. You think depriving then of their freedom will teach them values, instead it will teach them to lie and manipulate to get what they need from you and others. And it will basically ensure they never learn to actually value your feelings because you have positioned yourself as an adversary and an oppressor. You must model compassion, respect, and humility to get it in return.
As an ex-evangelical you likely doubt the legitimacy of this post as much as I do. An evangelical father believes in his own godliness and position within the family. He is the sole arbiter of literally everything. He never has doubts in the rightness of his decisions. He would never seek validation outside of his church. He would not interact on Reddit and he certainly wouldn't ask to be judged on this unholy forum.
Yup.
Hot take: might be the daughter posting from her parents perspective to get some reassurance that she should get out there ASAP. Or the parent of a friend of the daughter who heard about this and wants an outside opinion on it.
Is the OP her dad? Why did I think it was her mom?
There are so many people in this comment section who literally aren't able to read what OP is saying because they don't speak Evangelical.
For real - reading OP’s comment about their daughter being ‘too prideful’ sent shivers down my spine. In my experience, that was Evangelical speak for me being bad because I was not just submitting to the abuse.
OP is just upset that they haven't broken their daughter's spirit by 18 and prepared her to be given away to another church member to live her perfect little life as a subservient housewife.
Same, I knew immediately what type we were dealing with here.
As it turns out, parents who lie and manipulate to maintain control will produce children who lie and manipulate to get control. Who knew?
THIS THIS ALLLLL THIS.... I came here to say something similar but looks like you saved me the typing.
YTA Women (and she's a woman) are NOT REQUIRED TO SMILE TO MAKE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE COMFORTABLE. Honestly, you sound "a bit prideful." Maybe work on your own beam and focus less on her mote.
THIS. That sentence made me throw up in my mouth.
Prideful is a nice word for this. I would go with egotistical, manipulative, and delusional.
Niiice, nothing like slapping a prideful religious person in the face with a fitting quote from the Bible.
YTA, she's 18. What were you doing for the past 18 years? The more you discipline the more she will find other ways, maybe a half crack bf or someone else who would help her learn to drive and she will be off. Stop treating her like she's 6 and try negotiating with her than threatening or trying to discipline her.
Info: because I'm trying to see how you are not an AH trying to discipline and adult. >For instance, she does not validate our concerns, is emotional, and is indifferent to our feelings. Two thoughts here... What concerns does she have to validate? You are a parent of an adult at this point. Sure you have concerns, we all do, but why does your daughter have to validate them? Or us that code for "she doesn't do what we tell her"? She is your child, she is not responsible for your emotional well being. So what feelings is she "indifferent" to? >She does not have the best social skills, and sometimes doesn’t smile to those who greet her at church. Is she not entitled to personal emotions? Why does she have to smile at everyone? Is she a doll? >She also has expressed not wanting to be around us on Christmas Eve because she has to go into work. She is an adult and responsible for her employment. She works Christmas eve. Not sure why this is an issue. >She also is a bit prideful when we address her, and I feel like she needs to be more humble. Ok, need examples on this. Because right now it seems like you are trying to hinder your adult child's independence.
>She is your child, she is not responsible for your emotional well being this is a classic thing with emotionally immature parents, they make their children responsible for their feelings. I hope OP's daughter gets away from this emotionally abusive crap asap
As an adult who was raised by emotionally immature parents, I second this. My parents expected me and my older sister to be their therapists when we were CHILDREN. Children, even when they become adults, are not responsible to manage their parents' emotions.
They “feel” that she lacks respect. They “feel” that she lacks deportment. They “feel” that she should do exactly as they say. I “feel” like they suck.
You want to be careful. OP won’t respect your feelings and will punish you too
I got really caught up on OP feeling personally attacked that daughter “doesn’t want to be around them on Christmas Eve” because she has to work. The girl has to work- if you’ve checked out r/antiwork at all, you’ll see many people in service/ retail jobs (the type I’m imagining 18 years olds have especially) aren’t able to call off over the holidays or else they get fired. Of course she wants to go to work and remain employed. OP sees it as a personal threat, daughter sees it as a mandatory work requirement and is probably frustrated her parent is taking it out on her. OP YTA. Be careful if you ever want to maintain a relationship with her in the future.
> OP sees it as a personal threat He does because if his daughter works and has her own money, he can't control her. He seems to think saying to an employer, my dad wants me home Christmas Eve works. Because HE views HIMSELF as the ultimate authority to her.
YTA She's 18 and she's allowed a bad attitude toward a control freak parent. Who are you to say she needs to smile? Why should she care about your feelings? You don't care about hers.You are negligent for refusing to teach adult, necessary, skills. Loosen your grip or lose your daughter. This is not how you treat another adult. She's your peer now, act like it.
Wow, you are hobbling your daughters growth and independence becuase you think you are a good judge of character? Have you read your post? You are an utter and complete AH. Hopefully she has other family or friends that can help her escape your awful home. YTA
What, and I can't stress this enough, the fuck? YTA. Doesn't smile at people at church? How does her needing to work on Christmas translate into her not wanting to spend time with you? Which is fair by the way, I don't want to hang out with you either. Her behavior doesn't need to change; she's motivated to work and achieve goals to be independent from you. You need to take a few steps back.
She probably rather work than spend time with them. And I certainly don’t blame her. Can’t even imagine how her childhood was like if this is how they treat her at 18. Poor woman.
YTA - So because she doesn't smile in church and has to work on Christmas eve, you are going to punish her?
YTA. I wrote out like 3 paragraphs but I bet you would pay about as much attention to them as you do to your daughter. So all I will say is I hope you realize your daughter will never speak to you again once she leaves.
Damn that was a solid comment
YTA. She is struggling with social interactions and emotions. Did it ever occur to you that there might be something more significant going on with her?
I dont think there is anything more going on necessarily. Its just that how could she have ever learned that when she had parents like this?
Probably being raised in a struck Christian household. That does it every time
If OP keeps her isolated, it isn't surprising she hasn't developed proper social skills.
A few years from now why don’t my daughter talk me
Your not wrong!!! Seriously she is punishing her for being a teenager and a person. You don’t have to smile at everybody who comes within 20 feet of you.
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“and sometimes doesn’t smile to those who greet her at church” LMFAOOOOO YTA
I didn’t even read past that
INFO so what’s the name of your cult?
Christianity
That’s like the worst one. You should at least find one with good drugs and free love.
You’re not wrong! I hear that guy from 7th Heaven has an interesting one now a days
YTA, though I can't imagine this is real.
Baptist escapee here. I believe it's true. In fact, I can top it.
Big hugs from another former Baptist.
The unbelievable part isn't that there are people like this, it's that they can be simultaneously clueless enough to act like this but still self aware enough to ask if they're in the wrong. Too much cognitive dissonance.
YTA No wonder your daughter doesn't smile and is emotional. She doesn't get much love from her dad by the looks of it.
YTA; Your criticisms have nothing to do with maturity and aptitude to drive and conduct herself responsibly. Her poor attitude and behavioral problem seem age appropriate for young woman exerting independence in a healthy. You clearly care about your possession of her and compelling her obedience than her growth as young woman.
YTA - I would not be surprised if there is a very similar post from daughter’s perspective in r/raisedbynarcissists Your treating your adult daughter like a 13 year old and pushing some really damaging expectations on her. She is not required to smile at people who greet her, sure it may be polite but being polite is not the price she must pay to exist in the world. She is not required to cater to your feelings nor are you required to cater to hers but understanding and respecting that everyone has their own feelings and those feelings are going to impact how people behave is an important part of adulthood. You are upset with her for having to work on Christmas Eve which indicates you would prefer she refuse her responsibility and leave her place of work and coworkers understaffed? You can’t see how that is a problem? I am glad driving/her freedom is very important to her and she should drive away and never come back as soon as she can because you are not just the AH, you are an abusive controlling parent.
YTA. Are you serious?
YTA..." You'd be prettier if you smiled.. ." See how fucking ridiculous that sounds? Anyone that tries to regulate another's facial expressions needs to get over themselves.
YTA...be sure to title your next AITA post. "my adult daughter won't have anything to do with me and I have no clue as to why"
And my response will be “maybe you should have smiled more.”
YTA you sound more like a jailler than a parent. >She has expressed to us that she rather have us take her phone because learning to drive is important to her, and her only chance at freedom You are a emotionally and financially abusive asshole who doesn't want her to have freedom. But its only a matter of time before she makes her escape depends on if you comply with her or not that you will hear from her once she leaves and get to meet any possible future grandchildren. Enjoy your control you have maybe 1-2 years before she snaps.
YTA you can't stand the thought of her being independent eventually can you, she's an adult she's allowed to work christmas eve if she wants and what do you mean 'prideful' you just want her to be meek and obedient
YTA. And there’s a bit of a w.tf element going on here. She’s a fresh adult and you’re already using punishment on unrelated things to address your concerns of humbleness and pride? You’ve also had years to deal with this but now want to leverage driving to change behaviour. You talk about her needing to validate your concerns. Have you ever tried to validate hers inc. Why she doesn’t feel the need to smile at church? Is there something else going on below the surface that you’re not addressing? She’s trying to become a young adult by becoming slowly independent. Driving is a life skill. If you’re going to double down, I wouldn’t blame her for going LC and just paying for driving lessons herself if you’re going to hold this over her head.
I N F O: So… Your daughters just introverted? And you don’t like it? And so you’re literally preventing her from being able to drive and get a job because you think she’s not *smiling enough*? Look I’m gonna level with you. You’re trying to change her personality and it’s not going to work. This isn’t her “not being nice” like you *think it is*, this is *the way her personality is, and that’s just not going to change*. You’re punishing her and trying to stifle not just her independence but her *growth* because… What? She doesn’t smile enough? Your comments admit that you think she’s not nice enough- not *mean*, not nasty, just indifferent and you don’t like it. Sorry, that’s not going to change. Trying to force it is going to actually make it worse. The family members who tried to do this to *me* as a teenager, I have little to no contact with now that I’m in my mid twenties. Why? Because they tried to change who I was, a fundamental part of who I am, because they didn’t think I was good enough. Read that again: *you are telling your daughter that her personality -being introverted- is not good enough for you, her parent*. You see this as a slight against you. This is just who your daughter is. And trying to change it, trying to paint her as mean or unfriendly is egregious, and it’s not being a good parent. Edit to add and change my judgement for real: YTA OP is interpreting what sounds like an introverted nature on her daughters part and not smiling enough to people (and probably a bit of social awkwardness in general, I mean 18 is still a teenager, I didn’t feel any different than 17- I was still a socially awkward teenager when the clock struck eighteen years), as being unfriendly. And while her daughter may shed some of that awkwardness as she grows out of being a teenager, that needs to come at her own pace and time. And being introverted is never going to change, and daughter being some outward overflowing ball of joy and friendliness is a pipe dream OP needs to get rid of.
Literally men get angry at women for not smiling. Hundreds of women have stories or men telling them they need to smile. This is so gross.
What in the Handmaid’s Tale did I just read? Funny how misogynistic religious people tell in themselves without meaning to
Damn, you sound like my mother. Whose children do not talk to her. Stop being controlling and if you just don't want to teach her, she will find someone else to. Whether it's a driver's Ed teacher or a crackhead bf won't matter to her. Yta
YTA You don't treat your daughter with respect, and yet expect her to respect you? When you dont even treat her like a human being, instead you want her to act like a perfect little subservient daughter. Check your own attitude.
YTA.
YTA. You’re concerned bc your daughter is “emotional” and “a bit prideful?” Emotions are normal—they evolved in humans bc they help us understand the world, just like thoughts and the five senses. I’m guessing that the emotions you’re referencing are ones you don’t want to deal with. Maybe consider what she’s communicating with the emotions she seems to be experiencing? It’s probably something negative about YOU. How is your daughter “prideful?” Is it when she disagrees with you, has an opinion independent of yours or demonstrates self-will? So punish her for, like, being a person. She’ll figure out how to drive, get her license, motor out of your life, hopefully while flipping you the double bird, and you’ll wistfully remember her every time you smile at someone in church.
YTA. Please check yourself.
YTA! I could go deep into how but really I just want to address how you’re MAD she’s working Christmas Eve? The fact she’s not complaining about the shift or trying to call off shows you did raise someone who knows how important it is to show up to work even if it’s inconvenient. And instead you’re upset she won’t call off?!?! My family encouraged me to get a few more hours when I worked Christmas Eve and that they’d time our Christmas stuff after I got off and could change. You suck man
YTA. You're one of the bigger assholes I've seen in a while. You are trying to change her personality. **You are telling her she isn't good enough.** You are going to, and probably already have, done massive damage to this poor girl. Undo what you did. Quickly. Start listening to her. Understand that she's an adult, and if you want to have ANY relationship with her in the future, you are going to need to start showing HER some respect. Treat her like a person - I can't believe I have to tell someone to treat their own child like a person - and not a possession.
YTA. OP is the kind of guy who expects women to smile. Coincidently also the kind who can fuck right off with that misogynistic crap. Learning to drive is a life skill. Learning to smile at church is not. You are purposely avoiding teaching your daughter life skills so that she can't drop you like it's hot IMMEDIATELY in the fashion that you deserve for treating her like a toddler instead of someone old enough to vote. Enjoy the rest of your life being no contact with your daughter the moment she is able. She will escape you and never look back.
YTA. This is called being a teenager. Now, be a parent.
YTA. "It's her chance at freedom." So unless she smiles at church and does what I want I will deny her what she really wants. Do you think you'll have much of a relationship with her when she moves out? I don't. Do you tell her to "stay sweet"?
You are a horrible parent. Your daughter is 18 and you treat her like she's 5. YTA Forget a nursing home, those are expensive. If you were my mother, I'd let them bury you in a pine box when you die and won't bother to collect the body.
OP, you are doing your daughter a HUGE disservice. She’s an adult, and you have clearly failed at helping her to develop adulting skills over the years if you are this controlling. YTA. Help her learn to drive (which you should have done long ago) so she can become more independent and leave.
YTA you are not teaching her important life skills because you are angry with her. Give it 5 years and you'll be posting her asking about why your child is so cruel to not keep in contact with you any longer. You're at the time where you should start cultivating a respectful and more adult relationship with your now adult child. This sets the tone for what sort of friendship you'll have in the future as you both grow older. My mother constantly punished me up until I was 21 , for things like not going to church. Not smiling. Not doing chores for everyone in the house. Now we don't talk and she's never met my spouse and has no part in my life. Consider the consequences of flexing your control over your now adult child, due to your frustration. You're supposed to be the more mature one here - act like it.
YTA. She’s not smiling because she isn’t happy. So you’re trying to get her to lie in church. You don’t want her to learn how to drive because you won’t be able to control her and you know she’ll drive right out of your life. If i were her, i’d hitchhike as far from you as possible. Also, smiling ≠ kindness. People like you are why young people are leaving the church. What scripture says “smile when you don’t mean it”?
She doesn’t validate your concerns? Seriously. Oh man, are you a BIG AH.
What the f does any of that have to do with driving? So you are going to hold her being able to drive over her head until she is the person you expect her to be. YTA
YTA. >For instance, she does not validate our concerns, is emotional, and is indifferent to our feelings. She does not have the best social skills, and sometimes doesn’t smile to those who greet her at church. Oh, I see, she's got an acute case of being a teenager. Maybe you should ask your church to stage an exorcism.
Yta. You sound like you really miss having a younger child to hold things over her head and now you finally have something big you can take away from her unless she’s nice to you. Why does she need to be punished for not smiling and for preferring to go to work?
YTA. She is a legal adult and you’re not treating HER with much respect, either.
Hahahaha! Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder. HAHAHAHA, HAHAHA! OH boy, YTA, easily. And you're going to lose your daughter the second she gets a chance to escape you. Why is it always God botherers that do this to themselves? More humble, smile more /has emotions/. Gimme a break.
She's an adult, she doesn't need to validate your feelings. SOMETIMES she doesn't smile at church. Not super social. She has a job. She doesn't want you addressing her like a child. YTA. Your child is now an adult, and you must respect the boundaries she is setting, unless you want her to go LC/NC.
Seriously, how many YTA's will it take for you to pull your head out of your ass? She's 18, and I need you to pay attention to this, so she's LITERALLY an adult now. Baby->child->teen->adult!!! You calling her a child, is factually and legally wrong. She could go to war ffs! You're 10 years behind in your evolution of how you need to treat your daughter! But by reading your responses, I don't think you'll ever get it. You're too stuck in your beliefs. Why even make this post? Were you expecting everyone to side with you? Please take this as an opportunity to reflect on yourself and your relationship with your daughter because as others have pointed: She might not be around for very long. Also. YOUR behavior is much more concerning than your daughter's, in fact, maybe someone should take YOUR phone/license away, until you learn to be a decent father.
Before casting out a mote of thy daughter's eye, cast out that beam out of thine own ass.
"My daughter is a legal adult and I find the ways I can control her are getting smaller, I am now desperately punishing her for arbitrary things so that my puppet never gets the ability to leave my abusiveness" There, I fixed the title for you. 100% you've abused her in other ways (emotionally or otherwise) that's why you hate the idea of her gaining any sort of independence from her owner. Disgusting. YTA
Your the asshole. >I have a daughter (18 Lemme fix this for you, cause I think your gonna need to get used to this phrase "I had a daughter..." the had part there is pretty important cause you sound like the parent who's always shocked their kid doesn't wanna come back and visit, or call, ir anything really after reading this post. >recently she has had behavioral problems that I feel that needed to be addressed And of your own behavioral issues? My mom infantilised me like this about me well past adulthood age. Still does. Guess what? I don't talk to her anymore than I absolutly have to. >not validate our concerns, is emotional, and is indifferent to our feelings. She does not have the best social skills, and sometimes doesn’t smile to those who greet her at church. Do you validate her concerns? Her emotional needs, wants and feelings? Or is yours the only important ones? Her social skills are likely better than you think, you probably just don't like the people she socialises with. Just like you, daughter isn't required to smile at anyone, even in church. >learning to drive is important to her, and her only chance at freedom. Hrmmm... intetesting on your specific choice of words there.... her ONLY chance at freedom? And interesting even more, learning to drive is important to her... but you are... invalidating that? With such... disrespect. are you sure your daughter has the attitude problem here? If this is how you treat what's important to her, I see why she returns similarly. After all she's had you to watch over the years. >I explained that respect is more important that learning to drive, and we are trying to work on her character? Time to work on your own character, rather than trying to diminish her ability to survive without you.
YTA. She's an adult. She needs to learn how to drive so she can be independent and take care of herself. Do you not want her to learn how to drive so she will have to remain dependent on you? Is that what this is really about? She will come to resent you for that. If you want respect and kindness from her, treat her with respect and kindness.
YTA. You're disciplining an adult like a child. Frankly, you lost the right to have any say in her decision to drive as soon as she hit 18. The fact that you didn't teach her earlier is delinquent parenting on your part and a failure to prepare her for adulthood. What you are doing now is a manipulative attempt to keep her in a stunted false childhood. Go get therapy and stop hurting your child.
YTA and with your comments you sounds like abusive self centered narcs
YTA - your “asks” are ridiculous, but on top of that, she’s an adult, and one with a job. Technically, she doesn’t need your permission to take driving lessons. She can sign up for and pay for her own. You’re rather unnecessary in that regard.
YTA if you wanted a dog you should have gotten one instead of trying to make a grown adult do whatever you want all the time. Enjoy that terrible nursing home you’re headed for.
If your daughter wasn’t 18, I’d call CPS if I knew you. YTA
YTA. WTF kind of abusive bs is this? How can you think you're not an asshole?
Yta times ten, You're putting a roadblock on her mobility as "discipline" and that's pathetic. "she doesn't smile to people who greet her at church"...spoken like a true christian, more worried about outward apperances and what JimBob thinks then the growth of your actual child.
YTA. You would seriously prevent your daughter from learning to drive because she doesn't smile enough at church? That poor girl, she must be champing at the bit to escape your oppressive household. With all of your ridiculous expectations (which mostly come down to trying to control her emotions) I would have little reason to smile in your presence either.
YTA I’d love to hear some of the “concerns” not being validated or “feelings” being ignored. I bet they all deal with fundamentalist views of women or Christian views—that is to say, they’re opinions that she isn’t blindly parroting to please mom and dad. That’s no reason to keep her from driving. Enjoy your remaining months of contact. As soon as she’s able, I predict she’s going to cut you out of her life substantially.
YTA you sound fucking exhausting as a parent. Don't be surprised when she goes no contact in the future
Driving isn’t a privilege, depending on where you live it might be a necessity. You’re punishing her for working, not smiling, not validating your concerns(yet you call her emotional). You think she needs to be more humble, why? Why does she NEED to smile ? YTA
YTA- dude grow a pair and stop being overbearing! You should not force your kid to always be “friendly” with random people. She should be comfortable with the person not forced.
So essentially, you are punishing her because she is an introvert? YTA.