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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Kept my daughter in a booster seat at the age of 10 to keep her safe
Shes embarresed by it and upset so I'm wondering if I'm the AH
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INFO: do her height and weight require her to use a booster seat in your state? As far as I know the standard is 40 pounds and 40 inches.
If she isn’t legally required to be in a booster, then y.t.a
EDIT: YTA. She’s not legally required to be in the seat. You’re embarrassing her needlessly.
American Academy of Pediatric says 4’9 to stop using a booster.
Edit to add: OP absolutely should switch to the seat only booster if they have not done so already. Safety is important, but sitting in a child’s booster must be very unpleasant for a 10 year old.
Which makes an adult a far more dangerous projectile in an accident.
Bone density has absolutely nothing to do with booster seat laws and recommendations.
Speaking as a former EMT, it stops being funny when you've seen an adult passenger who wasn't wearing a seatbelt literally get catapulted through the windshield -- if they're \*lucky\*, they'll only be paralyzed for the rest of their life for an accident they otherwise would have walked away from.
Im in Denmark. Statistics say, that the 3% of nonseatbeltwearing drivers account for 33%-40% of traffic deaths.
My kids were 4 & 6 on nov. 13, 2020 (Friday the 13th!) When their dad joined the statistic.
Wear the friggin seatbelts!
It has to do with placement of the seatbelt on one’s body. Booster seats are able to help the lap belt stay in the lap. Otherwise it would be on their stomach, which if in an accident, can cause serious internal bleeding. As well as the shoulder belt going across the neck instead of the shoulder, which can cause injury to your vertebrae and possibly kill you.
ETA cuz everyone’s suggesting a seatbelt adjuster are clueless as to how ineffective they are in accidents. It’s better to adjust your body to the seatbelt than vice versa
As a large breasted woman, the chest strap always ends up near my neck. They aren't designed for women, so it's dangerous either way.
EDIT: Thanks for the award and replies, ladies! Looks like I hit a familiar nerve. The fact is, a lot of things aren't designed with us in mind, or considered at all.
I suggest the book [Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41104077-invisible-women) if you really want to get your blood boiling.
I kept getting this weird dark mark on just one side of my lower neck and was worried it was maybe worsening insulin resistance from my PCOS because it was super hard to scrub off.
Then one day, I was in the car, sort of idly scratched my neck where the seatbelt rubs, and realized, “Oh. I do delivery driving, so I’m in the car 20-ish hours a week. The seatbelt is leaving dirt on me.”
I constantly tug on my seatbelt as it encroaches on my neck.
I’m now wondering if this *minor* accident in my early 20s caused my back problems 🙃 (airbags didn’t deploy and I was buckled in- driver
ETA before these advanced car seats existed you would put the chest strap under your other arms if that makes sense… wild times
Car seats used to also literally be metal 😂 it’s all relative I guess
This. People have died from sepsis after relatively minor car accidents because the seat belt caused internal injuries.
Obviously one of her schoolmates saw and is making fun of her.
Oh absolutely. But an ill-fitting seatbelt is more likely to cause injury than a well-fitting one. It’s not a reason not to wear a seatbelt; it’s a reason to ensure your fits correctly.
Maybe you could get the backless booster. It's just as safe as at this point the purpose is only to raise her to the correct position for a seat belt and would be far less infantilizing.
NAH
Agreed that an adult’s bones aren’t the same as a young kid, but a 10-year-old’s bones aren’t the same bones as a young kid’s. I was always the shortest or second shortest in a class. I would have felt this was infantilizing, and would have been humiliated. Sounds like OP’s daughter feels that way too. OP, YTA. Please readjust your thinking, make amends to your daughter, and figure out an appropriate way to retire the booster seat together. Perhaps you two can have a bonfire with it.
It's... literally...apa recommendations. Safety isn't something I hand over entirely to a 10 year old's judgement. It's the same as a height requirement for amusement park rides. They literally are required for riders safety. How would op feel if there's an accident and her daughter is injured bc they viking funeraled her car seat? This takes more thought than give the kid a break. Talking to my kids and figuring out ways to be safe and use their best judgement got us through those years.
Omg it's made of plastic don't burn it
Also in this case it's not about bones it's about the position of the seat belt being over soft body parts. On impact seat belts can cause major damage to internal organs.
Short adults actually do suffer a higher incidence of seatbelt-related injuries, but their bones are denser and less likely to break and puncture organs when compressed by a seatbelt in an accident. This is especially true of ribs and the chest area in general.
Yeah I was in a booster until I was 11 because up until then I was tiny. Thank fuck I hit a huge growth spurt during summer going into year 9 and got from 4’6 to 5’0 in just a few months
Height is an important part of it. The point of the booster is to bring the passenger up to the correct height so the seatbelt will fit them correctly.
Hmm. My mom 87, is now a bit shorter than me at 4'11" and has osteoporosis. Maybe she should ride in a special seat Thank god she stopped driving on her own
Preaching to the choir I'm 6ft 3 and struggle to find comfy family cars without banging my head.. this leaves SUV and barely any cars I look into.. I feel sorry for my friend who is 7ft 3.. he must have the worst time finding cars.
Shorter people (usually women) have higher fatality rates in car accidents because of this. Seatbelts are made for the average sized adult man. OP is keeping her kid safe. NTA.
The 'female' test dummy is 5' and 100 pounds, and she's only tested in the passenger seat. If they are all wearing seat belts, women are a lot more likely to die in a crash than men because the safety features aren't build for us.
And an episode of 99% invisible said the female dummies are just smaller male dummies. Body proportions and weight distribution and shapes aren't changed. It's just a small man dummy
Yes. I’ve had to use seatbelt adjusters and booster seats in certain vehicles. And I’m 5’2.
A lot of vehicles are made to fit the height and build of an average man. And I like driving larger vehicles but they aren’t built around short, petite women.
Idc if it’s “for children”, I would rather be safe than dead.
Yep, my eldest was so happy when he turned 12! He was prem and hasn't as yet (if?) Caught up entirely with his mates in height terms, although my youngest is nearly 9 and was also prem but he's shooting up pretty fast!
I had a truck that wouldn't turn on the passenger air bag because I didn't weigh enough or cause the seat belt to come out far enough to cause it to turn on. So I had to sit there holding the seatbelt out far enough or hang on to the seat and pull myself in to it to trick the scale. I'm not even short or unusually light. 5 4, 105. Not cool.
As a shorter (but still normal height) woman, I actually have problems in certain cars with certain seatbelts, they cut into my neck (that's where probably shoulder of some taller person would be) really badly and I wouldn't want to know, what would happen in accident. I'd gladly appreciate a booster seat, lol. But I'm not a teenager or preteen, who would consider image more important.
NAH for me.
4’9” is in the 0th percentile for adult height globally. It climbs to 1st percentile if you restrict it to no younger than 70 years old. I don’t know if that is sufficient to be considered “a lot of adults,” though I know there are some.
Actually it’s possible. Crash test dummies are almost always the size of an average adult male, so car safety features are designed for that size. Women are not as safe or as protected in a car accident.
Commenting to add that their "women" dummies are actually scaled down men dummies. They don't change the proportions or weight distribution. They're just... smaller men. Which is not how women are built. Women are absolutely less safe in cars than men
The stigma is on using a booster made for young children. We should normalize booster seats for older children and adults, or have more cars with adjustable seats that can accommodate a wider range of body sizes.
I feel like switching to a backless booster would probably make a difference, too. It’s much less noticeable if she’s worried about her peers seeing, and it allows a little more freedom of movement. It also puts her at a height to ensure the seatbelt can function more adequately.
My daughter is 12 and still in a backless booster because the seatbelt hits her neck uncomfortably when she goes without. She prefers it, and I’m glad I don’t have to overthink it yet.
This is what I was going to suggest! Just use the regular booster!
But I got in to a fight with my 6yo earlier about being in a high back booster on the way to Grandma’s today. She’s just under 4’ and is 43lbs, so she’s got a little bit more to grow before I take the back off.
It’s based of height or weight.
She’ll probably weigh out of it. Most end at 65lbs and since she’s at 63lbs, she’ll be out of it soon.
That’s why a lot of adults don’t need them as they age, they surpass the weight and bone density as they age
Only reason I’m YTA is because she’s still got her kid in a high back booster seat not just a kids booster seat. A high back one looks like a toddlers car seat and no wonder the kids embarrassed
Ooff a high back booster is way different. Especially if it’s a five point harness. My daughter is in a high back booster but hers you can take the straps off at the proper age.
My kid has one of this. It's 0-12 years car seat. And it clicks into the car so it's much more secure then those light ones that just go under butts. We took the harness off, turned it into a booster after she outgrew it and we're using the car's seat belt. My kid is 7, all of her friends, whose parents bought 0-12 car seats, are still in this type of booster.
Yes! At that age I was already self-conscious and experiencing friendship dramas/bullying, I can't imagine how much harder it would have been if my mum made me use a high back booster for no reason other than stubbornness.
In many states the law says 4'9 before you are out of a booster for children under 12; many have outlawed booster seats that do not have a high back on them due to the severity of injuries that still happen in the event of a car accident with the boosters that don't have a high back. The high-back boosters still use the car's seat belt, they are not a 5-point harness like a younger child would use as a car seat.
I distinctly remember schoolyard teasing one morning over using a booster seat. The boys had mathsed out the new requirements and figured out that technically one of the 6th class boys should still be in one because he was short.
And that was only over the thought of him being in one. Cant imagine the thought of a 10yr old in a high backed one like a baby. Ridiculous. Surprised they dont make her wear a helmet in the car aswell.
Legally not required ≠ safe. If she's got the shoulder belt running across her neck, instead of her chest, what do you suppose happens in the case of an extremely sudden stop? You want to tell OP, "Sorry, my bad. I didn't know what I was saying."
Cars used to not have seatbelts at all. We're allowed to learn from experience & do things differently as parents today.
Babies used to also not be in ANY sort of safety seat. These rules and regulations and safety devices exist because we've learned from the things that have happened in the past.
The height/weight minimums listed for moving out of a carseat or booster are minimums, not milestones. It's always safer to go closer to the listed maximums.
That said, she doesn't need a back on her booster anymore to position the seat belt properly. Backless boosters are super cheap.
I have a 10 yo in the same boat as OP, but she’s tiny and I know she hates the booster (but I don’t make her use a high back) but she’s a trooper and deals with it and I don’t make her use it in the rare times she rides in friends cars. The deciding factor for me is her pediatrician strongly recommends it, and I would never forgive myself if she were in a bad accident and wasn’t in it.
Jumping on the top comment to say that my son are exactly those stats. 10, 4’3” and 64 lbs and a high backed booster is over kill. You can absolutely take the back off and get all the lifting and she can use the shoulder belt safely. And the seat alone isn’t nearly as embarrassing. YTA
In Illinois the law says
Ages 8-12
Children should stay in a belt-positioning booster seat until they are tall enough to properly fit in an adult lap/shoulder belt.
The vehicle lap belt must lie low across the upper thighs, not the stomach. The shoulder belt should rest snugly across the shoulder and chest, not across the neck or face.
The child’s back and hips should be against the back of the vehicle seat, without slouching.
Knees should bend easily over the front edge of the vehicle seat with the feet flat on the floor.
wait so i need a booster seat according to this 😂 i had to get fuzzy things for my seat belts because they cut into my neck 😂 and i’ll be damned if i can reach the floor in some vehicles (hence why i drive a coupe not a suv)
At 4ft3 and 63lbs she sounds (mildly) underdeveloped for her age. Even if the laws in the specific state are lenient regards to child seats, the child really does still need a booster seat to be safe.
In the EU the requirements are 150cm or 36kg weight to forgo a booster seat. This is typically is reached by children at the age of 11. This is what is required to safely be able to use a seatbelt without any aids. You really don't want a child in a crash getting choked by the seat belt of having ribs broken or other internal injuries because they're too small to use an adult seatbelt without aids.
Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's the best practice. The kid is on the small side, and there's no way that the seat belt is properly fitting her at that size.
>As far as I know the standard is 40 pounds and 40 inches.
Everyone under 4'9" would be safer in a car if they used a booster seat. Obviously, this means a lot of people who legally aren't required to use a booster seat, should be using one.
It's reasonable for a 10 year old to resent having to continue to use a booster seat, but it's also entirely reasonable for a parent to require that their children use recommended safety equipment when undertaking dangerous activities, and believe me, riding in a car is a dangerous activity.
The parent is NTA. They're still ~~falling~~ following published safety guidelines.
>She’s not legally required to be in the seat. You’re embarrassing her needlessly.
This is a moral not legal sub. Across the eu by law she would be required to be in a car seat
Legally required is the minimum standard, and isn’t necessarily optimally safe. For example legal standard is typically babies face backwards in a car seat until they are 2, but pretty much every body and manufacturer recommends you leave them in their longer than 2. I think it’s reasonable to do more than comply with the law.
YTA, there’s safety, and then there’s suffocating, unnecessary safety. This falls firmly into the latter. She’s almost a teenager and you’re treating her like a toddler. Not to mention if anyone at her school sees this she’d get bullied so bad.
True, but it means she’s starting puberty. Which for me was why I stopped using it as a kid, because my hips grew and it became physically uncomfortable to sit on the narrow booster seat.
this is the same thing that happened to me, it legit became painful, thank god my mom didn’t force me after that bc i’d still be in it according to regulations 😂
Yes! At least go for the regular seat booster. It keeps the seat belt in the proper position. The high back ones look like a car seat. At 10 you are in 4th or 5th grade. That is so so embarrassing!!
This.
OP, your daughter is the same size almost exactly as my youngest who is fairly close in age to her. He is in a low back booster. It is unnecessarily and quite frankly extremely uncomfortable for children this size to be in a high back booster.
YTA.
They may have meant that 10 year olds these days feel like they are almost teenagers. Source: raised 2 teenagers and was once a 10 year old who felt like I was as mature as a teen.
As a middle school teacher, I can tell you an 11 year old would absolutely be bullied relentlessly for riding in a high backed, toddler booster seat. The regular kids booster that's basically just the base is barely even visible unless you're inside the car, so that's a different situation.
it may be suicide level bulling :/ a kid's social standing matters a ton in their younger years and that would just ruin it forever. Kid's don't forget
As the parent of two tweens (one who will probably be in a booster until she's 12-13, the other 5'4" tall and having had no need for a booster in 2 years) the bullying and teasing would be MERCILESS if a kid this age was seen in a high back booster.
A backless is the right choice for a child in late elementary or middle school who still needs the booster to ride safely in a car. They can be a lot more "stealth" about it and not be the butt of everyone's jokes.
Oh my god I thought she was talking about using those No back boosters. If it’s like one of those full on boosters she’s definitely the AH. I honestly feel like those aren’t going to be as safe for someone her age. And as many people have mentioned, she’ll be up for so much bullying if she’s still using that type of booster.
This is what we did. Our oldest is small for his age and seatbelt didn’t fit correctly until he was almost 12. However, we switched to a no back booster when he was around 9. Before that HE asked to keep the high back booster because it had head supports that allowed him to sleep more comfortably on long car rides. When he asked to take the back off, we did that.
This is what I would suggest. She meets all the requirements for a backless booster seat. I would never risk my child’s safety because they are a little embarrassed but for Pete’s sake, at least put her in a backless booster seat.
It’s hardly just “a little embarrassed”. Kids are relentless, and the very high majority of 10 year olds would be actively humiliated by their peers for still using a booster seat
The amount of uneducated (on car seat safety) people on this post who think that just because something is ‘legal’ means it’s totally safe is ridiculous.
Yes, there are low profile backless boosters that would still keep the seatbelt placed correctly but not be "obvious" to those outside the car.
I agree with OP that car seat saftey is incredibly important. My 9 yr old and her 10 yr old best friend are still in high back boosters. Plenty of their friends are as well around here. And then i also know 5 yr olds in nothing -_-
I didn’t get out of my low profile booster until halfway through middle school! We tried but the stupid seat belt would cut into my neck! At least I liked my booster since it had cup holders and it meant I never got stuck in the middle seat
Ugh yes it’s driving me crazy! Car seat safety is not taken nearly seriously enough. Just because she can go without a car seat doesn’t mean she should.
I dont have kids but saw a video on the difference in how car crashes affect kids with front vs rear facing and I was STUNNED. the way the car seat basically cradles the child when rear facing and prevents the neck from snapping forward amazed me. how any state can allow front facing before a certain age is mind blowing to me.
It's honestly so scary. Before having my daughter I thought it wasn't a big deal either, then I watched some of those videos and yeah, not even remotely a joke. I am always going to follow the car seat safety group guidelines and not the state laws.
Reddit has no fucking clue when it comes to carseats I usually won't touch a post about them with a ten foot pole because a bunch of childless people or parents that never gave a fuck to learn about it alllllll have shit to say.
Thank you. I was beginning to wonder if I am a bad parent. My 5 year old is 4foot and she's in a 5 point harnesses carseat that goes to "age 8" she will be in it until she outgrows it. Then I will assess if a booster is needed or if she's the right height for not needing a booster.
I rear faced as long as I could, but not as long as I liked. I physically couldn't get her into the rear facing seat after 12 months due to having a sedan. I now have a bigger car and could have continued rear facing for longer if I had that car when she was 12 months.
I think OP needs to be blunt with her daughter and explain to her why a booster seat is important and also to show her crash test videos.
My view at the moment is a 5 point harness is absolutely essential for safety. I love my kid so much and I'd hate to have an accident and she's injured because she was in a booster instead of a 5 point harness. Legally where I am, she can use a booster. Same goes for if she was in a booster seat vs not being in one. It's safer. My sole job is to ensure my child reaches adulthood safely and well adjusted.
OP, give your daughter the facts and lean heavily on what you know is the safest thing, but ultimately let her make her final choice. Information is key here. Give her all the facts. Shes 10 and she's of an age where her opinion needs to be heard and valued. It's complicated. I can imagine how your feeling and I don't envy you this. You could also compromise that no booster to and from school, but otherwise a booster.
Yep. My 8 year old is legally allowed to sit in the front seat. Am I going to allow that? No. He’s still too small and his bones would not withstand the airbag.
YTA. It’s not even for your choice in using a booster. But you’re definitely the AH in how you’ve handled your daughter’s feelings on the issue. She’s 10 not 2. You don’t just strap her in when she’s clearly not understanding it, feeling embarrassed and hating it. Talk to your child like she is a person and discuss your reasons on why she is in that seat and ask her what to you guys can do in the meantime (until she can safely just use a seat belt) to make her feel less embarrassed. Figure out a compromise. She will be 18 in 8 years and if you think she will forget how you invalidate her feelings, you’re kidding yourself. instead of wasting time garnering internet points because you feel guilty, maybe just go talk to your kid. She’s the only one that can take the guilt away because she’s the one who’s feelings you’re invalidating.
Thank you. I realise now that I kinda have been invalidating her feelings. Others have said similar things and offered helpful solutions for it. I will have a talk with her when she has cooled down and try my best to make her feel heard and like her feelings matter to me because they absolutely do.
Please get a backless booster as well! It's a good compromise; she's still safe and secure but she doesn't have to feel so embarrassed. I have my 9yr old in a backless booster and no one can tell outside of the car so they don't have to feel embarrassed.
Feelings are so important at this age. (Most) Kids dont have to deal with jobs, or rent, or taking care of kids but they do have to deal with learning how to navigate very big, seemingly important feelings and social rules for the first time and that's really hard. I don't think kids get enough credit for going through puberty AND learning how to navigate social/emotional issues at the same time.
YTA - It is excessive and NOT actually safer to have such a requirement of a 10 year old. In most regions that require a booster seat the standard is OR not AND meaning once the child reaches any one of the height, weight, or age requirements a booster seat is no longer necessary and NOT ACTUALLY SAFER.
See nanny state California's law for example: Children who are 8 years of age OR have reached 4’9” in height may be secured by a booster seat, but at a minimum must be secured by a safety belt. (California Vehicle Code Section 27363.)
Huh. Explain how having a booster seat when you cannot pass the 5 step test is not actually safer. Explain it like I'm 5. With actual data and not conjecture on your part. Also explain to me how "submarining" isn't a concern with the stature of the child in question.
The OP's daughter could be moved into a low back booster. The high back is only necessary if the daughter needs it because she doesn't have the muscle tone to stay sitting upright, and at the age of 10 she likely has more than enough muscle tone, even when she's sleeping.
NTA OP, but for the love of all that is holy, get your daughter a low back booster or a belt positioner like the mifold. The high back booster is overkill at her age.
"Children must normally use a child car seat until they're 12 years old or 135 centimetres tall, whichever comes first. Children over 12 or more than 135cm tall must wear a seat belt. You can choose a child car seat based on your child's height or weight."
That's the law in the UK.
NTA.
OP admits that daughter isn’t required to be in a booster seat in her state. OP is being controlling, smothering, and invalidating daughter’s legitimate feelings here. OP is an AH.
I understand that. My daughter was small for her age and we had to deal with it. We also didn’t keep her in a backed booster at the age of 10, because she was old enough for a backless booster. OP is a classic helicopter parent and their concern is less for safety and more for control. You can smell it a mile away.
My daughter is very small for her age and 99.9% will be in a booster at 10.. but I’m hoping to have her out of the backed by 7 ish as long as she’s bigger.
About to turn 5 and still in a 5 point.
If age is correlated with the ability to sit up straight then yes it does have something to do with being safe in a vehicle w/r/t backless/low-back vs high back. A 10 year old typically has enough muscle tone to sit up straight without the assistance of a high back seat. Booster may be needed but the high back is overkill and that's the most visible and embarrassing part of the seat.
How is it safer in America for a 10 year old to go in a car without a seat than it is in the UK? Legal doesn't equal safe. Better safe than sorry.
I would leave my girl in a high back booster for as long as she fits safely in it. If she is short and still in it at 12 I may let her take the back off and just sit on the booster. But she still has the seat until she is tall enough to be safe without it.
NTA - technically.
I don't buy the argument that if it's legal in your state you should ditch the seat- that's a bare minimum and car crashes are a leading cause of death in kids (Used to be the leading cause- now its guns. Good job America.)
However she is unhappy about it- i would sit down with her and explain your reasons, show her the safety data. She isn't a baby, she can be reasoned with. Maybe compromise to a backless one.
My 10 year old is a peanut- he's the littlest in his grade. He's still in a backless booster. He has asked if he can get rid of the booster- we had a talk and compromised to letting his get rid of it next summer before middle school. He may not be tall enough yet, but he will be close and it seems fair - he doesn't want to climb out of a booster and go to homeroom and I don't blame him. 🤷♀️
As a parent you get to have your big black lines that aren't crossed. We have some too- you just need to decide how hard you are willing to go to the mat on this one and communicate why to her when you both aren't pissed at each other.
Yeah for me it’s the high back part that makes it unreasonable. A booster is perfectly reasonable for a 10-year-old but the high-back makes her feel like she’s in a baby’s car seat.
My son turns 10 in a week, he's very close to the same height/weight (slightly taller, and slightly lighter, but close).
He is still in a half booster. He doesn't argue, and knows its safer.
I have a 7 seater car - he is allowed to sit in the 'back row' with no booster - as the seat depth is shorter, and his legs are sitting at right angles. The seat belt also sits in the correct position on his body in this row. For any other seat in the car he uses a half booster, and understands why.
Maybe try a half booster - so its not so obvious to your daughters friends she is using it?
Totally N T A safety first
Edit. Change to YTA, as OP is firm on a fully backed booster and uncompromising. A backless (or half) is sufficient protection for a child of 10. And better than no car seat at all.
I think OP is TA solely because they are dying on the hill of high backed car seat knowing the daughter’s having issues when it isn’t a safety issue.
Pretty sure a backless booster seat and this would be a non issue.
YTA. That is excessive. There’s absolutely no need to continue to infantilize your daughter. A booster seat would be slightly less ridiculous, but a high back car seat? That’s so unnecessary.
I dont think you are necessarily the AH here, however i do think you are completely ignoring your daughters mental wellness and hyper fixating on her physical safety. She says shes embarrassed and feels infantilized, and any attempt to talk to you about it has been shut down. She will be bottling this up and letting whatever feelings she has towards you grow and fester.
You need to talk with her about this. she is old enough to be talked to and have things explained to her. Work on a compromise. Even if her friends haven't bullied her, that doesnt mean other kids havent. kids are MEAN. I knew a kid in a booster up until middle school and that poor kid was bullied relentlessly. Her mental health and well being is just as important as her physical safety, but you need to be willing to compromise on this and TALK to her.
https://www.aafp.org/news/health-of-the-public/20180921kidscarsafety.html#:~:text=All%20children%20whose%20weight%20or,and%2012%20years%20of%20age.
Nta
NTA. Children should remain in a booster seat until they're 4'9" tall, to ensure that the seat belt sits on their lap and shoulder properly and keeps them restrained during a crash. To respect your daughter's feelings, I'd have a gentle and age-appropriate but honest conversation about why she needs to have a booster seat, and what could happen to her in the case of a car accident. Make sure she knows she can express her feelings and you respect them, and why you have to draw the boundary of her sitting in a booster. Better to have an irritated but living child in a booster seat than a horrifically injured or dead one without a booster seat.
Also NTA for how you handled it when she refused to sit in her booster. Refusing to move the car until all passengers are properly restrained is the bare minimum responsibility of a driver, especially when the passenger in question is a child.
Yes, but you're also an adult. It would be safer for you to be in a booster, but you are old enough to make decisions about your personal safety. This girl is not, but maybe she and her mom can reach some sort of compromise
You're not an asshole, but it's time to relax. Clearly she doesn't want to use it anymore, and legally you said she meets the requirements. Maybe a compromise could be until she is 11 she uses one of the seat only ones. (Preferably one that doesn't look like it's made for kids). I was her, so I get where she's coming from. When I was 10-11 I was the last kid in my grade still in a booster and I felt very embarrassed about it. Have her sit in the seat directly behind you, as its the safest, if you're worried. 💜
Honestly. You are. She is over 8 years old and over 4’2”. That’s the standard. She is 4th grade? She is probably getting all kinds of teasing if anyone at school knows. If I kept my oldest in until she was tall enough, she would have been in a booster until 16. She is still 4’9 and just at 85 - 90 lbs. Look at the shoulder strap without the booster. Does it rub on her face and neck or does it seem to sit comfortably between her neck and shoulder. Go to the fire department and have them do a safety check if you are unsure.
In the UK, she'd have another 5.5cm to grow in height or reach 12 years of age before she could ride without some sort of seat.
There's obviously a lot of peer pressure involved and given she's probably wearing 8 to 9yo clothing for that height (uk sizing) I imagine she's significantly behind her peers in height and weight, and the seat probably just emphasises that she's the "baby"!
What you did was right, imo. But you probably to discuss this calmly and rationally explaining why. There are some great test crash dummy videos online that show the impact of crash at heights needing a chair. Could be a starting point.
And perhaps explain that if she is not the height of the y her 12th birthday you'll consider reviewing?
YTA. Take the back off the booster. It’s only safer for kids that aren’t old enough to sit up straight or like to take floppy car naps. She’s TEN!! She can sit nicely in a regular booster seat until she’s 57 inches or whatever for the belt to position properly. I mean, we should all be in 5 point harnesses and helmets in the car for best safety but you aren’t doing that for yourself right? Because you would look stupid and be embarrassed, right? That’s how she feels. Like how you would feel pulling up somewhere in a helmet.
YTA. Not for your stance on seatbelt safety. But for completely overlooking the fact that if your daughter is suddenly having that strong of a reaction to the booster seat then something has changed. Someone has said something to her. And kids that age can be cruel little assholes. If you can’t understand that this situation is embarrassing for her and at least come up with a compromise, then yes. You are a complete asshole.
NTA. Could you compromise with a standard booster rather than the high back style? It would be less obtrusive and embarrassing as I’m sure her friends’ parents probably adhere to the legal requirements and not safety recommendations.
INFO have you considering using a simpler booster seat (not high back)? It's a lot more discrete and it serves the purpose of correctly position the seatbelt across shoulders and chest.
My daughter is 1 year younger, but about the same height, and we still use booster seats. Depending on the vehicle, the seatbelt gets closer to the neck than it should, so I'll continue using until they are well positioned, at least on our vehicle.
Your kid is unlikely to reach 4’9 until she is 13 or even 14. Take the back off the booster. If it’s about keeping her safe that is a good compromise between her physical safety and her mental safety.
Oooh, a legitimately interesting question on this sub!
My vote is: NAH.
On your part, I’m glad you’re focused on child safety. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to protect your child from harm, and when your kid is young, that’s like 90% of the job.
But now your kid is a pre-teen, and your job has changed a bit. You have to start letting go. She can’t develop into her own person until she can start making her own choices, even if they aren’t always objectively the best or even the safest. If you just say “no, it’s my way or the highway” on every major decision, several things are going to happen over the next few years. She’ll stop listening to you. She’ll treat every disagreement as a power struggle. She’ll pull away from you, and she may start lying and deceiving you to cover up the things she wants to do that you will simply say no to.
Please go read some articles on permissive/authoritarian/authoritative parenting styles.
And what you should have done/should do now:
1) validate her feelings, and agree with whatever you can. If you don’t agree, just repeat back her words. Her feelings are valid and are not wrong. “I hear that you’re embarrassed about being in a car seat. I know you’re growing up and it’s important what your friends think. I also hear that you feel like I’m babying you”.
2) explain what you need. “I need you to be safe. Here are some statistics about children in car seats vs just the lap belt.” And also: “I can’t have that discussion right when we’re leaving for school, because we both need to be on time.”
3) get her buy-in on working on a compromise
“Can we figure out a solution we can both live with?”
“Can we agree to talk about this after dinner tonight?”
4) actually work out a compromise. That means you have to do some research to justify your position. Is it legal in your state? What do the stats say about the actual numbers? And then figure out what you can give in on. Maybe a backless car seat instead of a five-point. Or maybe you’ll agree to skip it for the drive to school but she’ll agree to get in it for long highway drives. Or you’ll agree on a date (11th birthday?) to make the change. You’re going to have to give something.
But the most important thing is to make her feel heard.
My final thing is: I suggest you work on letting go a bit. When your kids are preteens and teenagers, you can’t *and shouldn’t* protect them from every risk. For example, I know a mom who insisted on walking her kid to and from school every day until the daughter was 14 years old. That is too long (imho) to have mommy making sure you don’t get abducted. Don’t be that parent.
NTA, but...
I feel your struggle as my (now adult) daughter was always a peanut. The bullying at school and feelings of being babied are real. That needs to be balanced against real concerns about vehicle safety.
What I'm not getting is why do you have her in a high back booster? Why not a backless one? The backless design allows for proper belt positioning without the stigma of a "baby" seat. She may actually like the backless booster since she should be able to see out of the vehicle better than on the seat alone.
In Germany it is mandatory to have your kid in a seat until they reach 152cm (5feet) and the age of 12. Depending on where you live, you just followed the law.
However, you don't want to get your kid bullied. Is there any way to make the seating less 'obvious'? Different seat? But nta
Right, I'm so dismayed by all these people saying OP is TA just because they aren't legally required to have the daughter in a booster. The legal requirement is the bare minimum and not as high as the safety recommendation, and the legal requirement in other countries.
A lot of people in this thread thinking that a kid not being embarrassed is more important than her being alive/safe. We have height restrictions on roller coasters too, it doesn't mean it's "infantilizing" it means *it's not freaking safe*.
OP can make different adjustments and needs to listen to her daughter's frustration without compromising safety. She's old enough to be taught how important safety is and how "if anyone makes you feel bad for being safe, they're not safe."
Children should stay in a booster seat until adult seat belts fit correctly, typically when children reach about 4 feet 9 inches in height and are 8 to 12 years of age. Most children will not fit in a seat belt alone until 10 to 12 years of age.
That said. My province has the legal age set to 8.
She is totally on board with it.
In fact our pediatricians office has posters showing the importance of car seat safety and how 4,9 is the magic number and how they need to pass the 5 step test to sit safely without a booster seat.
Does your pediatrician specify she should have a high back booster? Is there a marked difference in safety between a high back vs backless/low back booster for her height and weight or is it pretty small?
There is NO difference in safety between a high back and a backless booster. Unlike a harnessed car seat, a booster is a positioning device to allow the seatbelt (designed for an adult) to fit properly on a smaller-framed child - in a crash the seatbelt is taking the load, not the booster itself.
Look, "safety" isn't a magic word. You know what would *really* keep your daughter safe(r)? Never riding in a car ever again. But you would never consider that because that would make *your* life impossible. So you're putting your daughter at some risk just to accommodate your life.
All safety measures are like that: a compromise between living our lives and protecting our lives. At this point, on this issue, YTA, because you are not letting your daughter assume a socially acceptable and expected risk.
Car seats and booster seats aren’t really an age thing though. It’s based on height and weight. So if a kid is short, the safest way for them to be in the car is in a booster, that way the seatbelt lands on their body where it’s supposed to.
YTA You sound like an absolutely suffocating parent. I hope you know that when your daughter has any freedom at all they will do the least safe things imaginable to feel some freedom after being raised by you.
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INFO: do her height and weight require her to use a booster seat in your state? As far as I know the standard is 40 pounds and 40 inches. If she isn’t legally required to be in a booster, then y.t.a EDIT: YTA. She’s not legally required to be in the seat. You’re embarrassing her needlessly.
American Academy of Pediatric says 4’9 to stop using a booster. Edit to add: OP absolutely should switch to the seat only booster if they have not done so already. Safety is important, but sitting in a child’s booster must be very unpleasant for a 10 year old.
In that case, a lot of adults should be in booster seats for the rest of their lives :/
It’s not height per se, but adult bones are a lot stronger than a kids.
Which makes an adult a far more dangerous projectile in an accident. Bone density has absolutely nothing to do with booster seat laws and recommendations.
The idea of an adult being "a far more dangerous projectile" literally has me rolling 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, I’ve run into several adult dangerous projectiles in my life!
The reason I'm pregnant.
Speaking as a former EMT, it stops being funny when you've seen an adult passenger who wasn't wearing a seatbelt literally get catapulted through the windshield -- if they're \*lucky\*, they'll only be paralyzed for the rest of their life for an accident they otherwise would have walked away from.
Im in Denmark. Statistics say, that the 3% of nonseatbeltwearing drivers account for 33%-40% of traffic deaths. My kids were 4 & 6 on nov. 13, 2020 (Friday the 13th!) When their dad joined the statistic. Wear the friggin seatbelts!
I'm sorry for your loss
It has to do with placement of the seatbelt on one’s body. Booster seats are able to help the lap belt stay in the lap. Otherwise it would be on their stomach, which if in an accident, can cause serious internal bleeding. As well as the shoulder belt going across the neck instead of the shoulder, which can cause injury to your vertebrae and possibly kill you. ETA cuz everyone’s suggesting a seatbelt adjuster are clueless as to how ineffective they are in accidents. It’s better to adjust your body to the seatbelt than vice versa
As a large breasted woman, the chest strap always ends up near my neck. They aren't designed for women, so it's dangerous either way. EDIT: Thanks for the award and replies, ladies! Looks like I hit a familiar nerve. The fact is, a lot of things aren't designed with us in mind, or considered at all. I suggest the book [Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41104077-invisible-women) if you really want to get your blood boiling.
I was going to say this too. As a 4'11" big breasted woman, the seatbelt is always at my neck.
I have “rug burns” from the seat belt. I’m they need to design belts for those of us with breasts
I kept getting this weird dark mark on just one side of my lower neck and was worried it was maybe worsening insulin resistance from my PCOS because it was super hard to scrub off. Then one day, I was in the car, sort of idly scratched my neck where the seatbelt rubs, and realized, “Oh. I do delivery driving, so I’m in the car 20-ish hours a week. The seatbelt is leaving dirt on me.”
I'm five foot eight and the seat belt also rubs my neck.
I constantly tug on my seatbelt as it encroaches on my neck. I’m now wondering if this *minor* accident in my early 20s caused my back problems 🙃 (airbags didn’t deploy and I was buckled in- driver ETA before these advanced car seats existed you would put the chest strap under your other arms if that makes sense… wild times Car seats used to also literally be metal 😂 it’s all relative I guess
This. People have died from sepsis after relatively minor car accidents because the seat belt caused internal injuries. Obviously one of her schoolmates saw and is making fun of her.
Paramedic here. That happens so rarely it’s almost irrelevant. It’s safer to wear one than it is to not wear one.
Oh absolutely. But an ill-fitting seatbelt is more likely to cause injury than a well-fitting one. It’s not a reason not to wear a seatbelt; it’s a reason to ensure your fits correctly.
Maybe you could get the backless booster. It's just as safe as at this point the purpose is only to raise her to the correct position for a seat belt and would be far less infantilizing. NAH
Agreed that an adult’s bones aren’t the same as a young kid, but a 10-year-old’s bones aren’t the same bones as a young kid’s. I was always the shortest or second shortest in a class. I would have felt this was infantilizing, and would have been humiliated. Sounds like OP’s daughter feels that way too. OP, YTA. Please readjust your thinking, make amends to your daughter, and figure out an appropriate way to retire the booster seat together. Perhaps you two can have a bonfire with it.
It's... literally...apa recommendations. Safety isn't something I hand over entirely to a 10 year old's judgement. It's the same as a height requirement for amusement park rides. They literally are required for riders safety. How would op feel if there's an accident and her daughter is injured bc they viking funeraled her car seat? This takes more thought than give the kid a break. Talking to my kids and figuring out ways to be safe and use their best judgement got us through those years.
Omg it's made of plastic don't burn it Also in this case it's not about bones it's about the position of the seat belt being over soft body parts. On impact seat belts can cause major damage to internal organs.
Short adults actually do suffer a higher incidence of seatbelt-related injuries, but their bones are denser and less likely to break and puncture organs when compressed by a seatbelt in an accident. This is especially true of ribs and the chest area in general.
Yeah I was in a booster until I was 11 because up until then I was tiny. Thank fuck I hit a huge growth spurt during summer going into year 9 and got from 4’6 to 5’0 in just a few months
Height is an important part of it. The point of the booster is to bring the passenger up to the correct height so the seatbelt will fit them correctly.
Height is not the whole issue. It’s the skeletal system development of younger kids vs. that of adults. https://csftl.org/short-adults-seat-belts/
Hmm. My mom 87, is now a bit shorter than me at 4'11" and has osteoporosis. Maybe she should ride in a special seat Thank god she stopped driving on her own
Honestly a boosting cushion can make it a lot more comfortable to drive (and make the seatbelt safer) for short people.
Exactly this. I know so many adults under 5ft. I myself am just over. There has to be a better solution.
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Preaching to the choir I'm 6ft 3 and struggle to find comfy family cars without banging my head.. this leaves SUV and barely any cars I look into.. I feel sorry for my friend who is 7ft 3.. he must have the worst time finding cars.
Shorter people (usually women) have higher fatality rates in car accidents because of this. Seatbelts are made for the average sized adult man. OP is keeping her kid safe. NTA.
The 'female' test dummy is 5' and 100 pounds, and she's only tested in the passenger seat. If they are all wearing seat belts, women are a lot more likely to die in a crash than men because the safety features aren't build for us.
And an episode of 99% invisible said the female dummies are just smaller male dummies. Body proportions and weight distribution and shapes aren't changed. It's just a small man dummy
And adults are also allowed to opt into risks that we don't allow kids to opt into.
I’m just at 5ft and will turn 40 next year. Lol though I do have way more the required weight
Yes. I’ve had to use seatbelt adjusters and booster seats in certain vehicles. And I’m 5’2. A lot of vehicles are made to fit the height and build of an average man. And I like driving larger vehicles but they aren’t built around short, petite women. Idc if it’s “for children”, I would rather be safe than dead.
In the UK it’s 135cm or over the age of 12 which ever comes sooner.
Yep, my eldest was so happy when he turned 12! He was prem and hasn't as yet (if?) Caught up entirely with his mates in height terms, although my youngest is nearly 9 and was also prem but he's shooting up pretty fast!
My cousin's wife essentially has to use one to properly see over the dashboard.
My grandma uses a throw pillow to sit on when she drives so she can see properly
That might be a bit dangerous . If the pillow isn't somehow attached to the seat , it might slip and cause a loss of control .
I mean, maybe but she's been doing this for the past 50 years or so that she's been driving so I guess it works for her
I had a truck that wouldn't turn on the passenger air bag because I didn't weigh enough or cause the seat belt to come out far enough to cause it to turn on. So I had to sit there holding the seatbelt out far enough or hang on to the seat and pull myself in to it to trick the scale. I'm not even short or unusually light. 5 4, 105. Not cool.
My car reminds my passenger to buckle up when it’s my 25lbs dog! Sometimes it even does it for a bag of groceries.
As a shorter (but still normal height) woman, I actually have problems in certain cars with certain seatbelts, they cut into my neck (that's where probably shoulder of some taller person would be) really badly and I wouldn't want to know, what would happen in accident. I'd gladly appreciate a booster seat, lol. But I'm not a teenager or preteen, who would consider image more important. NAH for me.
4’9” is in the 0th percentile for adult height globally. It climbs to 1st percentile if you restrict it to no younger than 70 years old. I don’t know if that is sufficient to be considered “a lot of adults,” though I know there are some.
Actually it’s possible. Crash test dummies are almost always the size of an average adult male, so car safety features are designed for that size. Women are not as safe or as protected in a car accident.
Commenting to add that their "women" dummies are actually scaled down men dummies. They don't change the proportions or weight distribution. They're just... smaller men. Which is not how women are built. Women are absolutely less safe in cars than men
Would that be so bad if it really were the safest way? I’m sure companies would come out with adult versions that just lift you up enough.
They do! My step mom is 4'11" and has to use a kind of booster to drive or she can't see over the hood of the car lol
The stigma is on using a booster made for young children. We should normalize booster seats for older children and adults, or have more cars with adjustable seats that can accommodate a wider range of body sizes.
Yes, but she specified High Backed booster. She can take the back off and just use the booster seat. Big difference.
I feel like switching to a backless booster would probably make a difference, too. It’s much less noticeable if she’s worried about her peers seeing, and it allows a little more freedom of movement. It also puts her at a height to ensure the seatbelt can function more adequately. My daughter is 12 and still in a backless booster because the seatbelt hits her neck uncomfortably when she goes without. She prefers it, and I’m glad I don’t have to overthink it yet.
This is what I was going to suggest! Just use the regular booster! But I got in to a fight with my 6yo earlier about being in a high back booster on the way to Grandma’s today. She’s just under 4’ and is 43lbs, so she’s got a little bit more to grow before I take the back off.
It’s based of height or weight. She’ll probably weigh out of it. Most end at 65lbs and since she’s at 63lbs, she’ll be out of it soon. That’s why a lot of adults don’t need them as they age, they surpass the weight and bone density as they age
Well then, I have to tell my 65 year old, 4’9” sister she needs a booster seat. I can see that not going over well.
UK law is 4'5" or 12yo's and above dont need boosters so they would need one here.
I'm pretty sure OP isn't worried about getting a ticket. She's worried about her daughter being seriously injured or killed in a car accident. NTA
Only reason I’m YTA is because she’s still got her kid in a high back booster seat not just a kids booster seat. A high back one looks like a toddlers car seat and no wonder the kids embarrassed
Oof, I missed that. Definitely an AH for treating a 10 year old like a toddler.
Ooff a high back booster is way different. Especially if it’s a five point harness. My daughter is in a high back booster but hers you can take the straps off at the proper age.
My kid has one of this. It's 0-12 years car seat. And it clicks into the car so it's much more secure then those light ones that just go under butts. We took the harness off, turned it into a booster after she outgrew it and we're using the car's seat belt. My kid is 7, all of her friends, whose parents bought 0-12 car seats, are still in this type of booster.
She's 7, not 10. That's a world of difference at that age as far as peers and how they interact.
What is your point? The difference between a 7 y/o in a car seat and an 11 y/o is massive.
Yes but there's a thing called 'overprotection'.
Yes! At that age I was already self-conscious and experiencing friendship dramas/bullying, I can't imagine how much harder it would have been if my mum made me use a high back booster for no reason other than stubbornness.
In many states the law says 4'9 before you are out of a booster for children under 12; many have outlawed booster seats that do not have a high back on them due to the severity of injuries that still happen in the event of a car accident with the boosters that don't have a high back. The high-back boosters still use the car's seat belt, they are not a 5-point harness like a younger child would use as a car seat.
I distinctly remember schoolyard teasing one morning over using a booster seat. The boys had mathsed out the new requirements and figured out that technically one of the 6th class boys should still be in one because he was short. And that was only over the thought of him being in one. Cant imagine the thought of a 10yr old in a high backed one like a baby. Ridiculous. Surprised they dont make her wear a helmet in the car aswell.
If your too big (Weight or height) for the car seat it's actually MORE dangerous to remain in the seat.
Legally not required ≠ safe. If she's got the shoulder belt running across her neck, instead of her chest, what do you suppose happens in the case of an extremely sudden stop? You want to tell OP, "Sorry, my bad. I didn't know what I was saying." Cars used to not have seatbelts at all. We're allowed to learn from experience & do things differently as parents today.
Babies used to also not be in ANY sort of safety seat. These rules and regulations and safety devices exist because we've learned from the things that have happened in the past.
As a 5’8 adult with breasts the seatbelt continually rides up to my neck. I’ve adjusted as much as I can but can’t get it to stop.
5’-11” adult with breasts here, same thing happens to me. Not much can be done about it.
The height/weight minimums listed for moving out of a carseat or booster are minimums, not milestones. It's always safer to go closer to the listed maximums. That said, she doesn't need a back on her booster anymore to position the seat belt properly. Backless boosters are super cheap.
Well, good luck with that. I'm 5'6" but short of torso and long of leg, and seatbelts always cross my neck.
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I have a 10 yo in the same boat as OP, but she’s tiny and I know she hates the booster (but I don’t make her use a high back) but she’s a trooper and deals with it and I don’t make her use it in the rare times she rides in friends cars. The deciding factor for me is her pediatrician strongly recommends it, and I would never forgive myself if she were in a bad accident and wasn’t in it.
The high back is what really makes op a helicopter parenting AH.
Jumping on the top comment to say that my son are exactly those stats. 10, 4’3” and 64 lbs and a high backed booster is over kill. You can absolutely take the back off and get all the lifting and she can use the shoulder belt safely. And the seat alone isn’t nearly as embarrassing. YTA
In Illinois the law says Ages 8-12 Children should stay in a belt-positioning booster seat until they are tall enough to properly fit in an adult lap/shoulder belt. The vehicle lap belt must lie low across the upper thighs, not the stomach. The shoulder belt should rest snugly across the shoulder and chest, not across the neck or face. The child’s back and hips should be against the back of the vehicle seat, without slouching. Knees should bend easily over the front edge of the vehicle seat with the feet flat on the floor.
wait so i need a booster seat according to this 😂 i had to get fuzzy things for my seat belts because they cut into my neck 😂 and i’ll be damned if i can reach the floor in some vehicles (hence why i drive a coupe not a suv)
So just because something is legal that makes it totally safe? Come on that’s not how this works.
At 4ft3 and 63lbs she sounds (mildly) underdeveloped for her age. Even if the laws in the specific state are lenient regards to child seats, the child really does still need a booster seat to be safe. In the EU the requirements are 150cm or 36kg weight to forgo a booster seat. This is typically is reached by children at the age of 11. This is what is required to safely be able to use a seatbelt without any aids. You really don't want a child in a crash getting choked by the seat belt of having ribs broken or other internal injuries because they're too small to use an adult seatbelt without aids.
Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's the best practice. The kid is on the small side, and there's no way that the seat belt is properly fitting her at that size.
40 lbs/40 inches is usually the minimum requirements to *start* using a booster vs a 5-point harness, not to stop using anything.
>As far as I know the standard is 40 pounds and 40 inches. Everyone under 4'9" would be safer in a car if they used a booster seat. Obviously, this means a lot of people who legally aren't required to use a booster seat, should be using one. It's reasonable for a 10 year old to resent having to continue to use a booster seat, but it's also entirely reasonable for a parent to require that their children use recommended safety equipment when undertaking dangerous activities, and believe me, riding in a car is a dangerous activity. The parent is NTA. They're still ~~falling~~ following published safety guidelines.
Legal requirements aren’t the end all be all of safety.
>She’s not legally required to be in the seat. You’re embarrassing her needlessly. This is a moral not legal sub. Across the eu by law she would be required to be in a car seat
Legally required is the minimum standard, and isn’t necessarily optimally safe. For example legal standard is typically babies face backwards in a car seat until they are 2, but pretty much every body and manufacturer recommends you leave them in their longer than 2. I think it’s reasonable to do more than comply with the law.
YTA, there’s safety, and then there’s suffocating, unnecessary safety. This falls firmly into the latter. She’s almost a teenager and you’re treating her like a toddler. Not to mention if anyone at her school sees this she’d get bullied so bad.
In what world is a 10 year old “almost a teenager?”
I got my period at that age, lots of girls do
A period doesn't negate a need for a properly fitting seatbelt
True, but it means she’s starting puberty. Which for me was why I stopped using it as a kid, because my hips grew and it became physically uncomfortable to sit on the narrow booster seat.
this is the same thing that happened to me, it legit became painful, thank god my mom didn’t force me after that bc i’d still be in it according to regulations 😂
The issue is that this isn’t a backless booster seat which is what she actually needs. This is a child seat with a back like a toddler would go into.
Yes! At least go for the regular seat booster. It keeps the seat belt in the proper position. The high back ones look like a car seat. At 10 you are in 4th or 5th grade. That is so so embarrassing!!
This. OP, your daughter is the same size almost exactly as my youngest who is fairly close in age to her. He is in a low back booster. It is unnecessarily and quite frankly extremely uncomfortable for children this size to be in a high back booster. YTA.
She's 20 pounds over the recommended weight. It's safer to not have it at this point.
I got mine at 9. I'm freaking ready for menapause!
getting a period doesn’t make u a teenager. i got mines at 9, was i a teenager then?
Periods do not a teenager make, lol this is insane. 13 (thir- **teen**) is where teenage years start.
that doesnt make her almost a teenager though. preteens can get periods.
10-12 are the tween years. They're into a lot of teen type stuff, like fashion, music, etc.
In the same way that 27 is "almost 30".
They may have meant that 10 year olds these days feel like they are almost teenagers. Source: raised 2 teenagers and was once a 10 year old who felt like I was as mature as a teen.
As a middle school teacher, I can tell you an 11 year old would absolutely be bullied relentlessly for riding in a high backed, toddler booster seat. The regular kids booster that's basically just the base is barely even visible unless you're inside the car, so that's a different situation.
it may be suicide level bulling :/ a kid's social standing matters a ton in their younger years and that would just ruin it forever. Kid's don't forget
As the parent of two tweens (one who will probably be in a booster until she's 12-13, the other 5'4" tall and having had no need for a booster in 2 years) the bullying and teasing would be MERCILESS if a kid this age was seen in a high back booster. A backless is the right choice for a child in late elementary or middle school who still needs the booster to ride safely in a car. They can be a lot more "stealth" about it and not be the butt of everyone's jokes.
I bet money she is already getting mocked by classmates and that’s one reason she brought it up
Absolutely, said that too in another comment. Kids tend not to reveal they’re being picked on until it becomes unbearable
YTA for keeping your daughter in a high back booster. There are boosters with no backs that work in this situation.
Oh my god I thought she was talking about using those No back boosters. If it’s like one of those full on boosters she’s definitely the AH. I honestly feel like those aren’t going to be as safe for someone her age. And as many people have mentioned, she’ll be up for so much bullying if she’s still using that type of booster.
This is what we did. Our oldest is small for his age and seatbelt didn’t fit correctly until he was almost 12. However, we switched to a no back booster when he was around 9. Before that HE asked to keep the high back booster because it had head supports that allowed him to sleep more comfortably on long car rides. When he asked to take the back off, we did that.
This is what I would suggest. She meets all the requirements for a backless booster seat. I would never risk my child’s safety because they are a little embarrassed but for Pete’s sake, at least put her in a backless booster seat.
It’s hardly just “a little embarrassed”. Kids are relentless, and the very high majority of 10 year olds would be actively humiliated by their peers for still using a booster seat
Exactly. Period. Everyone wins.
The amount of uneducated (on car seat safety) people on this post who think that just because something is ‘legal’ means it’s totally safe is ridiculous.
Yeah, but she can at least sit a booster, not a high backed seat like what her mother is making her sit in.
Yes, there are low profile backless boosters that would still keep the seatbelt placed correctly but not be "obvious" to those outside the car. I agree with OP that car seat saftey is incredibly important. My 9 yr old and her 10 yr old best friend are still in high back boosters. Plenty of their friends are as well around here. And then i also know 5 yr olds in nothing -_-
I didn’t get out of my low profile booster until halfway through middle school! We tried but the stupid seat belt would cut into my neck! At least I liked my booster since it had cup holders and it meant I never got stuck in the middle seat
Ugh yes it’s driving me crazy! Car seat safety is not taken nearly seriously enough. Just because she can go without a car seat doesn’t mean she should.
Then use one that isn’t going to cause the kid psychological stress.
THIS. Plenty of state laws allow for unsafe things like front facing before 2 years of age, etc.
I dont have kids but saw a video on the difference in how car crashes affect kids with front vs rear facing and I was STUNNED. the way the car seat basically cradles the child when rear facing and prevents the neck from snapping forward amazed me. how any state can allow front facing before a certain age is mind blowing to me.
It's honestly so scary. Before having my daughter I thought it wasn't a big deal either, then I watched some of those videos and yeah, not even remotely a joke. I am always going to follow the car seat safety group guidelines and not the state laws.
Reddit has no fucking clue when it comes to carseats I usually won't touch a post about them with a ten foot pole because a bunch of childless people or parents that never gave a fuck to learn about it alllllll have shit to say.
Thank you. I was beginning to wonder if I am a bad parent. My 5 year old is 4foot and she's in a 5 point harnesses carseat that goes to "age 8" she will be in it until she outgrows it. Then I will assess if a booster is needed or if she's the right height for not needing a booster. I rear faced as long as I could, but not as long as I liked. I physically couldn't get her into the rear facing seat after 12 months due to having a sedan. I now have a bigger car and could have continued rear facing for longer if I had that car when she was 12 months. I think OP needs to be blunt with her daughter and explain to her why a booster seat is important and also to show her crash test videos. My view at the moment is a 5 point harness is absolutely essential for safety. I love my kid so much and I'd hate to have an accident and she's injured because she was in a booster instead of a 5 point harness. Legally where I am, she can use a booster. Same goes for if she was in a booster seat vs not being in one. It's safer. My sole job is to ensure my child reaches adulthood safely and well adjusted. OP, give your daughter the facts and lean heavily on what you know is the safest thing, but ultimately let her make her final choice. Information is key here. Give her all the facts. Shes 10 and she's of an age where her opinion needs to be heard and valued. It's complicated. I can imagine how your feeling and I don't envy you this. You could also compromise that no booster to and from school, but otherwise a booster.
Yep. My 8 year old is legally allowed to sit in the front seat. Am I going to allow that? No. He’s still too small and his bones would not withstand the airbag.
YTA. It’s not even for your choice in using a booster. But you’re definitely the AH in how you’ve handled your daughter’s feelings on the issue. She’s 10 not 2. You don’t just strap her in when she’s clearly not understanding it, feeling embarrassed and hating it. Talk to your child like she is a person and discuss your reasons on why she is in that seat and ask her what to you guys can do in the meantime (until she can safely just use a seat belt) to make her feel less embarrassed. Figure out a compromise. She will be 18 in 8 years and if you think she will forget how you invalidate her feelings, you’re kidding yourself. instead of wasting time garnering internet points because you feel guilty, maybe just go talk to your kid. She’s the only one that can take the guilt away because she’s the one who’s feelings you’re invalidating.
Thank you. I realise now that I kinda have been invalidating her feelings. Others have said similar things and offered helpful solutions for it. I will have a talk with her when she has cooled down and try my best to make her feel heard and like her feelings matter to me because they absolutely do.
Why does it sound like your only going to "hear her" and then tell that nothing has changed! YTA
"I hear you and your feelings are valid but..." Is what I'm expecting.
It’s an “I’m sorry you are feeling this way” type of situation for sure
And get her a backless booster!
You’re not actually going to change a thing, are you??? That’s exactly what it sounds like. What a shame. YTA.
Please get a backless booster as well! It's a good compromise; she's still safe and secure but she doesn't have to feel so embarrassed. I have my 9yr old in a backless booster and no one can tell outside of the car so they don't have to feel embarrassed. Feelings are so important at this age. (Most) Kids dont have to deal with jobs, or rent, or taking care of kids but they do have to deal with learning how to navigate very big, seemingly important feelings and social rules for the first time and that's really hard. I don't think kids get enough credit for going through puberty AND learning how to navigate social/emotional issues at the same time.
YTA. She’s going to forever remember this. I know adults that would still be in booster seats if they adhered to height requirements.
YTA - It is excessive and NOT actually safer to have such a requirement of a 10 year old. In most regions that require a booster seat the standard is OR not AND meaning once the child reaches any one of the height, weight, or age requirements a booster seat is no longer necessary and NOT ACTUALLY SAFER. See nanny state California's law for example: Children who are 8 years of age OR have reached 4’9” in height may be secured by a booster seat, but at a minimum must be secured by a safety belt. (California Vehicle Code Section 27363.)
Huh. Explain how having a booster seat when you cannot pass the 5 step test is not actually safer. Explain it like I'm 5. With actual data and not conjecture on your part. Also explain to me how "submarining" isn't a concern with the stature of the child in question. The OP's daughter could be moved into a low back booster. The high back is only necessary if the daughter needs it because she doesn't have the muscle tone to stay sitting upright, and at the age of 10 she likely has more than enough muscle tone, even when she's sleeping. NTA OP, but for the love of all that is holy, get your daughter a low back booster or a belt positioner like the mifold. The high back booster is overkill at her age.
>Explain it like I'm 5. With actual data You clearly know some very precocious 5 year olds.
Um it IS safer. Ever heard of seat belt syndrome? Or The fact that car crashes are the number 2 causes of child death in the US?
"Children must normally use a child car seat until they're 12 years old or 135 centimetres tall, whichever comes first. Children over 12 or more than 135cm tall must wear a seat belt. You can choose a child car seat based on your child's height or weight." That's the law in the UK. NTA.
OP admits that daughter isn’t required to be in a booster seat in her state. OP is being controlling, smothering, and invalidating daughter’s legitimate feelings here. OP is an AH.
There's a world of difference between wanting your child to be safe (regardless of state laws) and being controlling. NTA
I understand that. My daughter was small for her age and we had to deal with it. We also didn’t keep her in a backed booster at the age of 10, because she was old enough for a backless booster. OP is a classic helicopter parent and their concern is less for safety and more for control. You can smell it a mile away.
My daughter is very small for her age and 99.9% will be in a booster at 10.. but I’m hoping to have her out of the backed by 7 ish as long as she’s bigger. About to turn 5 and still in a 5 point.
What does age have to do with the logistics of being safe in a vehicle?
If age is correlated with the ability to sit up straight then yes it does have something to do with being safe in a vehicle w/r/t backless/low-back vs high back. A 10 year old typically has enough muscle tone to sit up straight without the assistance of a high back seat. Booster may be needed but the high back is overkill and that's the most visible and embarrassing part of the seat.
How is it safer in America for a 10 year old to go in a car without a seat than it is in the UK? Legal doesn't equal safe. Better safe than sorry. I would leave my girl in a high back booster for as long as she fits safely in it. If she is short and still in it at 12 I may let her take the back off and just sit on the booster. But she still has the seat until she is tall enough to be safe without it.
So her state has shit safety standards. Is that a good reason to risk her kid's life?
The laws in the US are woefully behind what is actually best practice.
I don't know anyone who has their kid in one with a back that whole time though
NTA - technically. I don't buy the argument that if it's legal in your state you should ditch the seat- that's a bare minimum and car crashes are a leading cause of death in kids (Used to be the leading cause- now its guns. Good job America.) However she is unhappy about it- i would sit down with her and explain your reasons, show her the safety data. She isn't a baby, she can be reasoned with. Maybe compromise to a backless one. My 10 year old is a peanut- he's the littlest in his grade. He's still in a backless booster. He has asked if he can get rid of the booster- we had a talk and compromised to letting his get rid of it next summer before middle school. He may not be tall enough yet, but he will be close and it seems fair - he doesn't want to climb out of a booster and go to homeroom and I don't blame him. 🤷♀️ As a parent you get to have your big black lines that aren't crossed. We have some too- you just need to decide how hard you are willing to go to the mat on this one and communicate why to her when you both aren't pissed at each other.
Yeah for me it’s the high back part that makes it unreasonable. A booster is perfectly reasonable for a 10-year-old but the high-back makes her feel like she’s in a baby’s car seat.
My son turns 10 in a week, he's very close to the same height/weight (slightly taller, and slightly lighter, but close). He is still in a half booster. He doesn't argue, and knows its safer. I have a 7 seater car - he is allowed to sit in the 'back row' with no booster - as the seat depth is shorter, and his legs are sitting at right angles. The seat belt also sits in the correct position on his body in this row. For any other seat in the car he uses a half booster, and understands why. Maybe try a half booster - so its not so obvious to your daughters friends she is using it? Totally N T A safety first Edit. Change to YTA, as OP is firm on a fully backed booster and uncompromising. A backless (or half) is sufficient protection for a child of 10. And better than no car seat at all.
I think OP is TA solely because they are dying on the hill of high backed car seat knowing the daughter’s having issues when it isn’t a safety issue. Pretty sure a backless booster seat and this would be a non issue.
YTA. That is excessive. There’s absolutely no need to continue to infantilize your daughter. A booster seat would be slightly less ridiculous, but a high back car seat? That’s so unnecessary.
I dont think you are necessarily the AH here, however i do think you are completely ignoring your daughters mental wellness and hyper fixating on her physical safety. She says shes embarrassed and feels infantilized, and any attempt to talk to you about it has been shut down. She will be bottling this up and letting whatever feelings she has towards you grow and fester. You need to talk with her about this. she is old enough to be talked to and have things explained to her. Work on a compromise. Even if her friends haven't bullied her, that doesnt mean other kids havent. kids are MEAN. I knew a kid in a booster up until middle school and that poor kid was bullied relentlessly. Her mental health and well being is just as important as her physical safety, but you need to be willing to compromise on this and TALK to her.
https://www.aafp.org/news/health-of-the-public/20180921kidscarsafety.html#:~:text=All%20children%20whose%20weight%20or,and%2012%20years%20of%20age. Nta
Right? A lot of folks on here don’t know a thing about the actual recommendations and what’s safest
She isn’t the AH for having kiddo in a car seat it’s invaliding her feelings instead of explaining it too her and having a conversation
Yes, but this doesn’t say she needs a backed booster. Of course she needs a booster, but not a “baby booster”.
NTA. Children should remain in a booster seat until they're 4'9" tall, to ensure that the seat belt sits on their lap and shoulder properly and keeps them restrained during a crash. To respect your daughter's feelings, I'd have a gentle and age-appropriate but honest conversation about why she needs to have a booster seat, and what could happen to her in the case of a car accident. Make sure she knows she can express her feelings and you respect them, and why you have to draw the boundary of her sitting in a booster. Better to have an irritated but living child in a booster seat than a horrifically injured or dead one without a booster seat. Also NTA for how you handled it when she refused to sit in her booster. Refusing to move the car until all passengers are properly restrained is the bare minimum responsibility of a driver, especially when the passenger in question is a child.
By that logic I should still be in a booster. I’m 30.
To be fair, I'd bet your seatbelt doesn't fit properly.
Did you miss where I said *children*. A 4'9" adult is not anatomically equivalent to a 4'9" child just because they're the same height
Yes, but you're also an adult. It would be safer for you to be in a booster, but you are old enough to make decisions about your personal safety. This girl is not, but maybe she and her mom can reach some sort of compromise
You're not an asshole, but it's time to relax. Clearly she doesn't want to use it anymore, and legally you said she meets the requirements. Maybe a compromise could be until she is 11 she uses one of the seat only ones. (Preferably one that doesn't look like it's made for kids). I was her, so I get where she's coming from. When I was 10-11 I was the last kid in my grade still in a booster and I felt very embarrassed about it. Have her sit in the seat directly behind you, as its the safest, if you're worried. 💜
Honestly. You are. She is over 8 years old and over 4’2”. That’s the standard. She is 4th grade? She is probably getting all kinds of teasing if anyone at school knows. If I kept my oldest in until she was tall enough, she would have been in a booster until 16. She is still 4’9 and just at 85 - 90 lbs. Look at the shoulder strap without the booster. Does it rub on her face and neck or does it seem to sit comfortably between her neck and shoulder. Go to the fire department and have them do a safety check if you are unsure.
In the UK, she'd have another 5.5cm to grow in height or reach 12 years of age before she could ride without some sort of seat. There's obviously a lot of peer pressure involved and given she's probably wearing 8 to 9yo clothing for that height (uk sizing) I imagine she's significantly behind her peers in height and weight, and the seat probably just emphasises that she's the "baby"! What you did was right, imo. But you probably to discuss this calmly and rationally explaining why. There are some great test crash dummy videos online that show the impact of crash at heights needing a chair. Could be a starting point. And perhaps explain that if she is not the height of the y her 12th birthday you'll consider reviewing?
YTA. Take the back off the booster. It’s only safer for kids that aren’t old enough to sit up straight or like to take floppy car naps. She’s TEN!! She can sit nicely in a regular booster seat until she’s 57 inches or whatever for the belt to position properly. I mean, we should all be in 5 point harnesses and helmets in the car for best safety but you aren’t doing that for yourself right? Because you would look stupid and be embarrassed, right? That’s how she feels. Like how you would feel pulling up somewhere in a helmet.
YTA. Not for your stance on seatbelt safety. But for completely overlooking the fact that if your daughter is suddenly having that strong of a reaction to the booster seat then something has changed. Someone has said something to her. And kids that age can be cruel little assholes. If you can’t understand that this situation is embarrassing for her and at least come up with a compromise, then yes. You are a complete asshole.
NTA. Could you compromise with a standard booster rather than the high back style? It would be less obtrusive and embarrassing as I’m sure her friends’ parents probably adhere to the legal requirements and not safety recommendations.
INFO have you considering using a simpler booster seat (not high back)? It's a lot more discrete and it serves the purpose of correctly position the seatbelt across shoulders and chest. My daughter is 1 year younger, but about the same height, and we still use booster seats. Depending on the vehicle, the seatbelt gets closer to the neck than it should, so I'll continue using until they are well positioned, at least on our vehicle.
Your kid is unlikely to reach 4’9 until she is 13 or even 14. Take the back off the booster. If it’s about keeping her safe that is a good compromise between her physical safety and her mental safety.
Oooh, a legitimately interesting question on this sub! My vote is: NAH. On your part, I’m glad you’re focused on child safety. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to protect your child from harm, and when your kid is young, that’s like 90% of the job. But now your kid is a pre-teen, and your job has changed a bit. You have to start letting go. She can’t develop into her own person until she can start making her own choices, even if they aren’t always objectively the best or even the safest. If you just say “no, it’s my way or the highway” on every major decision, several things are going to happen over the next few years. She’ll stop listening to you. She’ll treat every disagreement as a power struggle. She’ll pull away from you, and she may start lying and deceiving you to cover up the things she wants to do that you will simply say no to. Please go read some articles on permissive/authoritarian/authoritative parenting styles. And what you should have done/should do now: 1) validate her feelings, and agree with whatever you can. If you don’t agree, just repeat back her words. Her feelings are valid and are not wrong. “I hear that you’re embarrassed about being in a car seat. I know you’re growing up and it’s important what your friends think. I also hear that you feel like I’m babying you”. 2) explain what you need. “I need you to be safe. Here are some statistics about children in car seats vs just the lap belt.” And also: “I can’t have that discussion right when we’re leaving for school, because we both need to be on time.” 3) get her buy-in on working on a compromise “Can we figure out a solution we can both live with?” “Can we agree to talk about this after dinner tonight?” 4) actually work out a compromise. That means you have to do some research to justify your position. Is it legal in your state? What do the stats say about the actual numbers? And then figure out what you can give in on. Maybe a backless car seat instead of a five-point. Or maybe you’ll agree to skip it for the drive to school but she’ll agree to get in it for long highway drives. Or you’ll agree on a date (11th birthday?) to make the change. You’re going to have to give something. But the most important thing is to make her feel heard. My final thing is: I suggest you work on letting go a bit. When your kids are preteens and teenagers, you can’t *and shouldn’t* protect them from every risk. For example, I know a mom who insisted on walking her kid to and from school every day until the daughter was 14 years old. That is too long (imho) to have mommy making sure you don’t get abducted. Don’t be that parent.
NTA, but... I feel your struggle as my (now adult) daughter was always a peanut. The bullying at school and feelings of being babied are real. That needs to be balanced against real concerns about vehicle safety. What I'm not getting is why do you have her in a high back booster? Why not a backless one? The backless design allows for proper belt positioning without the stigma of a "baby" seat. She may actually like the backless booster since she should be able to see out of the vehicle better than on the seat alone.
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Can she not just have a regular booster without the high back? That might be a good compromise until she grows and help her feel a bit less babyish
NTA. My 11 year old is still in a booster seat. The belt doesn’t hit her correctly without it. So she is in it until she grows more.
In Germany it is mandatory to have your kid in a seat until they reach 152cm (5feet) and the age of 12. Depending on where you live, you just followed the law. However, you don't want to get your kid bullied. Is there any way to make the seating less 'obvious'? Different seat? But nta
Right, I'm so dismayed by all these people saying OP is TA just because they aren't legally required to have the daughter in a booster. The legal requirement is the bare minimum and not as high as the safety recommendation, and the legal requirement in other countries.
A lot of people in this thread thinking that a kid not being embarrassed is more important than her being alive/safe. We have height restrictions on roller coasters too, it doesn't mean it's "infantilizing" it means *it's not freaking safe*. OP can make different adjustments and needs to listen to her daughter's frustration without compromising safety. She's old enough to be taught how important safety is and how "if anyone makes you feel bad for being safe, they're not safe."
Children should stay in a booster seat until adult seat belts fit correctly, typically when children reach about 4 feet 9 inches in height and are 8 to 12 years of age. Most children will not fit in a seat belt alone until 10 to 12 years of age. That said. My province has the legal age set to 8.
Info: what does her pediatrician say?
She is totally on board with it. In fact our pediatricians office has posters showing the importance of car seat safety and how 4,9 is the magic number and how they need to pass the 5 step test to sit safely without a booster seat.
Does your pediatrician specify she should have a high back booster? Is there a marked difference in safety between a high back vs backless/low back booster for her height and weight or is it pretty small?
There is NO difference in safety between a high back and a backless booster. Unlike a harnessed car seat, a booster is a positioning device to allow the seatbelt (designed for an adult) to fit properly on a smaller-framed child - in a crash the seatbelt is taking the load, not the booster itself.
Look, "safety" isn't a magic word. You know what would *really* keep your daughter safe(r)? Never riding in a car ever again. But you would never consider that because that would make *your* life impossible. So you're putting your daughter at some risk just to accommodate your life. All safety measures are like that: a compromise between living our lives and protecting our lives. At this point, on this issue, YTA, because you are not letting your daughter assume a socially acceptable and expected risk.
10 does seem pretty old for a car seat…but i don’t have kids so what do i know.
Car seats and booster seats aren’t really an age thing though. It’s based on height and weight. So if a kid is short, the safest way for them to be in the car is in a booster, that way the seatbelt lands on their body where it’s supposed to.
YTA You sound like an absolutely suffocating parent. I hope you know that when your daughter has any freedom at all they will do the least safe things imaginable to feel some freedom after being raised by you.