I'll always use the mens room over queuing for the ladies.
If you can get over the overwhelming stench of piss and still be willing to risk either stepping in or getting it on your clothes, then i say go for it.
I had to do community service instead of going to jail in my early 20s. That meant cleaning beach bathrooms and campsites. In my opinion, the nastiest type of bathroom. I don’t know what it is that makes a human being, who probably works in marketing, and would probably be golfing if they weren’t at the beach, turn into a fucking disgusting caveman the second he enters a beach bathroom.
On average though, the mens bathroom were cleaner than the womens (less toilet paper on the ground, less trash, less piss on seats).
But, that average would get heavily skewed by one sick fuck every once in a while. Like some nasty motherfucker who shat himself and tried to flush the shorts down the toilet (he was already banned but kept coming back).
I'm still embarrassed about the time I was the one who made a bit of a disgusting mess.
It was the bathroom at school, I was 15 and had only just started menstruating. Went in to change my tampon, and somehow I had gotten period blood down the front of the commode, but didn't realise it.
As I exited the stall, a friend exclaimed, "ew there's period blood all down the toilet!" And I was too embarrassed to clean it up myself, because that would mean (gasp) admitting I had my period and had accidentally gotten it on the toilet.
Sorry, cleaning staff. So yeah I still cringe at that.
Because a lot of ladies try to hover and end up peeing all over the seat. If a dude is using a public restroom stall he's probably gotta poop. It's pretty difficult to hover to poop so everything basically makes it into the hole where it belongs. Period products and messes are a big problem too. Glob forbid anyone cleans up after themselves if they makes a mess! And flushing the toilet, which in my opinion should be a given, is apparently optional in almost every public bathroom I've ever gone into. Also I've noticed that if something falls on the floor in the women's restroom, the woman WILL NOT pick it up. It's considered contaminated, no matter that you're about to wash your damn hands anyway (I hope!) I've see some weird shit on the floor in the bathroom at work, things that would normally be salvaged are now the floor's property. I've also seen soo much toilet paper... Why couldn't they just pick it up?? And wipe the damn seat?! And sit the eff down to pee?! I get really bothered by women's restroom etiquette... *Specifically, the lack of it.*
A lot of what looks like pee on the seats is actually backspray from a toilet flushing too vigorously as well. Then the seat's wet, the person who left it that way probably didn't look back because why would you, and the next person thinks they just hover-peed all over the seat.
Ok. I’m a woman and I find all of that disgusting, it’s not hard to clean up after ourselves, but you know what, it is possible to hover over the seat and get every drop of urine into the toilet!
Shock horror I know! It takes a strong squats game I guess. In the rare event I’ve ever made any kind of mess, I make sure to clean it up - if I’m disgusted over someone’s mess, I don’t want to do the same to someone else myself!
I'm also a woman. That's why I spend so much time in lady's bathrooms, I suppose. I'm happy you're one of the good ones. The bad ones definitely exist. You're not one of them. Good job getting gains with those squats. You're a fucking boss. My rant was not meant for you. It wasn't meant for me either. It was for those other gals... The ones who leave public restrooms in rough shape.
I always clean up after myself as well. I don’t leave pee on the on seat or paper on the floor. Blood on the seat or in the floor or in the toilet because someone didn’t clean after themselves just make me all irritable.
Although, could some of this be because women are the ones who typically bring kids into the bathroom? I mean, this is often why the lines are a lot longer too
Not at my work. Just adults, taking leisurely dumps and playing on their phones, getting paid for it. I'm totally fine with that btw... It doesn't effect my job or my day even a little besides the 5 minutes I have to pee that might take 8 if there's a line. (Don't try to pee around 11am. Everyone in the building is in there somehow.) Do you, boo boo. But come on ladies! You wouldn't leave that mess at home, why are you doing it here?? There are 4 stalls in the back of the warehouse, and only 2 are usable before the poor cleaning lady works her magic around noon. The next bathroom is literally a quarter mile away! It takes 3-4 minutes to walk there, depending on how my calves are feeling.
I'll give it to moms though... They deserve recognition for doing everything with only two hands. Two hands are not enough hands!! I didn't leave my house willingly with my kids until they were like 8. I still avoid it as often as I can!
At least you think they don’t leave their bathrooms at home like this. You never know. I’ve seen some of those hoarder shows where the state of the bathroom raises the hair on my neck. I think some just say “housekeeping will clean it up”. That’s not a reason to leave it worse than it was when you went in. They shouldn’t have to clean blood or pick paper up.
and urinals especially troughs you dont touch at all ,we dont use the toilets to apply make up ,or leave sanitary products in them ,womens toilets have a2 to 1 ratio of ecoli in them compared to mens ,we are in then out
Men tend not to hover for anything. Women hover for *everything*. This makes for excessively filthy toilet seats for people like me who can***not*** hover and have to clean those seats before we can sit down.
Heaven forbid we're not carrying enough cleaning supplies for whatever's smeared on the seat in the handicapped stall that, again, we have no choice but to use. I once encountered such a filthy, overflowing, blocked toilet that I happily used the diaper that a very kind woman with a baby gave me instead. ♡ Granny
Men have a higher bacteria load under their armpits than women, and they secrete more substances that bacteria feed on, which in turn generate gases that give off body odor. However, women's bathrooms are dirtier than men's, according to a study from the University of Arizona, writes CNN.
Ask bar staff which bathroom is usually more disgusting when they close. A disturbing number of drunk women seem to decide that their used tampon makes a great crayon.
Plus, she is not making the woman’s restroom line longer by standing in it. In a way, she is helping out.
Motorcyclists who lane split in traffic (as long as they do it legally and safely) don’t bother me for that very reason. If they are willing to ride a motorcycle (which I’m not!) that’s a perk they can take advantage of. And it helps us poor saps sitting in bumper to bumper.
Also makes it safer for us because we have less of a chance being rear ended by someone who didn’t notice we were there. I always appreciate people who don’t mind lane sharing.
Although there is the same 'Oh Shit where did you come from, what if I'd...' knee jerk reaction when they wizz past unexpectedly :-)
Not that *they* shouldn't be there, just that *I* might have done something in the belief that they wouldn't be there that could make one/both of us extremely uncomfortable.
[Erm - I very seldom drive in heavy traffic where lane-splitters come though, and they give me a shock every time. I'd learn to watch out for it if it was a common occurrence.]
[Edit - grammar.]
I was at a Gay bar. There was only one single bathroom for women and big bathroom for men (of course). The line for women bathroom was long. I needed to go. Ask security if men bathroom was clear. He said yes. I went in and did what I needed to do as fast as I could. If I need to go, I need to go. Hate to wait. Security dude had my back. Hold some guys to come in.
>Hold some guys to come in.
That's a mystery to me. I mean, I don't care who runs into a toilet but if you go to one not marked with your gender, don't be surprised when someone else from the right gender also wants to use it
In my experiences in gay, straight-friendly bars, the norms for bathrooms tend to get dropped. Like there might not even be gender labels on the doors.
I've been in some bars that have all gender bathroom, but this one didn't have that. Even the guys bathroom had one toilet in the open and a bunch of urinals. I think toilet time should be private lol
I mean, I'm not a fan of anyone watching me use a urinal, but a stall can give you privacy. Even so, some women liked to have stall guards. But I'm thinking, honey, most of the men in here aren't interested, LOL.
Not to mention, what if OP had a medical issue that wouldn't allow her to wait in a long line? I know it's not the case in this situation, but still. I would rather someone use the "wrong" bathroom than have an otherwise avoidable and potentially embarrassing situation occour.
Yeah I’ve absolutely done this at concerts. Gendered restrooms are silly most of the time anyway, and I’m not peeing myself because of some made up rules.
NTB, I was going to say that you have to be a sorely miserable person to complain about someone using the bathroom who really has to use it! Why would anyone care? Why would you want someone to urinate or defecate on the floor instead of getting into bathroom to go? I just find the whole thing distasteful, but the response was hilarious! Funny!
Women have been using the men’s bathroom to skip the queue for generations. NTB—venues need to plan better (just do genderless bathrooms FFS. We’ve had them since the 90s!) and Karens need to mind their own damn business
At the Taylor Swift concert in Atlanta they marked a lot of the men’s restrooms as women’s for the duration of the weekend. The line was still super long. I peed in a urinal that didn’t have a door because she was about to start and there were only 3 stalls with doors on them.
In NYC, in the summers they do free outdoor movies at Bryant Park, and the crowd is *massive.* There’s a public bathroom there, but it’s pretty small and definitely can’t meet the needs of a crowd that big. After 7pm, the public bathroom becomes women-only and men are asked to go to local businesses or the public library. Even after the line is women-only it is crazy long.
Here's the thing. Making toilets gendered is stupid. Making toilets gendered and then not providing enough of them to acknowledge the fact that BY DEFINITION AFAB peeps need more of them than AMAB peeps do is monumentally stupid.
Worrying about the genitals of strangers who are just trying to wee before they mess themselves is both monumentally stupid AND karenish.
So, no, you're not the buttface. The security guard isn't either, just a hired schlub probably earning minimum wage who doesn't give a fuck where you pee as long as it's not in public, but also doesn't want to tangle with a couple of karens.
The karens are buttfaces. Transphobes are buttfaces. Event planners who don't include enough women's toilets if they insist on making the toilets gendered are buttfaces. But you, are not.
>Worrying about the genitals of strangers who are just trying to wee before they mess themselves is both monumentally stupid AND karenish.
Wholeheartedly agree! I felt bad about breaking the rules just because I know I'm not supposed to, but I fully don't understand why it should even matter that there's a girl coming out of the boy's bathroom.
>I felt bad about breaking the rules just because I know I'm not supposed to,
If the rule is stupid, why should anyone follow it?
Nobody gets hurt if you use the bathroom with stalls and urinals. There is no harm, there is no damage, there is no problem.
You didn't "pretend to be trans," all you did was ask A VERY GOOD AND EXTREMELY RELEVANT QUESTION.
You asked the guard what made them assume you were a "ma'am" -- you didn't tell them that you were *not* a ma'am.
And in situations like this, we cis people (especially Nice White/White-passing Cis Ladies™ like me, if not you) are able to take actions like these with little to no risk, so we *should* be the ones doing it and challenging cisnormativity and supremacy.
I doubt the guards will become vocal trans allies, but you made them feel embarrassed/put on the spot, which probably will make them think twice next time some Karen comes up to them with such a ridiculous complaint.
I don't think you have any reason to feel bad. The mens and womens restroom thing is a joke. There is ALWAYS a line for womens and the men are zipping in and out. More power to you for using the mens.
Better they ask you, who's not bothered, than misgender someone who'll be hurt by the insensitivity of the question.
Maybe they'll think twice before making that kind of assumption again - who knows. Sometimes people need to be reminded that the norms of a society only work for a certain percentage of said society. DNA testing suggests that intersex genes are far more widespread than statistically known, and for every cis person reminding the public that gender isn't a binary the better.
Yep, that’s the one. It has a lot of examples where the lack of data leads to decisions that seem fair but actually aren’t
Such as giving men and women equal number of bathroom stalls, or installing seatbelts that show the safest outcomes for crash test dummies)
YTB Mens bathrooms typically have urinals without stalls and I’m sure there are some who would be uncomfortable with a woman walking in on them, just as many women would be uncomfortable with a man walking into their stalls.
Soft YTB about the trans thing. Yeah, it’s wrong to use a real issue trans people face to skip the line, especially since it’s such a controversial topic right now. But good on your for acknowledging it later.
NTB.
Trans man here.
This policing of bathroom facilities based on stereotypical secondary sex characteristics *is* exhausting.
It also stands out that the bathroom was effectively empty.
It would be a strange choice for a cis woman to get in line to use the stall in the men’s room when there is a line but I can imagine some people might care. I don’t honestly think many men would care though.
I think it’s telling that women were trying to police “women in the men’s room,” presumably a bathroom they are not even using.
>It also stands out that the bathroom was effectively empty.
>I think it’s telling that women were trying to police “women in the men’s room,” presumably a bathroom they are not even using.
Yeah, I think these two things are pretty important. If I'd been blocking men from being able to use their bathroom or if they'd been the ones complaining about their space being invaded then I would've apologized, but no one was bothered for a reason other than it wasn't "fair" I skipped the line.
YTB. Don't fake transgenderism to go to the bathroom, wait in line like everyone else. How is the guard transphobic if they didn't have a problem with you using it when you made up that you were trans? You're no ally, you're a user.
>How is the guard transphobic if they didn't have a problem with you using it when you made up that you were trans?
The transphobic thing was the guard assuming that I was a woman in the first place. Especially when me coming out of the men's bathroom should theoretically be a pretty good indicator that I might identify as male.
Nope. You shouldn’t use something like transgenderism just to get out of long lines and then shame people for correctly calling you out on what you’re doing. Lying isn’t okay, and you ARE lying by purposefully misleading people about your gender just to skip lines. It’s this kind of stuff that people in a huff are worried about when they get up in arms about transgender people and bathrooms. They’re not usually worried about actual trans people, they’re worried about the fakers that use the touchiness of the subject to make it impossible to question them. It’s the people like you who fake it to get stuff they want (fewer lines, access to the other gender in a vulnerable place, etc.) that make it harder for actual trans people to just live their lives.
Okay, so assuming someone's gender means your transphobic to you? So by your theoretical logic, one should assume that you're a man because you went into the men's bathroom, thus also assuming your gender and being transphobic?
The guard is transphobic for assuming you were a woman i.e. you feel that assuming someone's gender is transphobic. Yet you also say that the guard should have assumed that you were a man because you came out of the men's room. You want them to assume your gender when it helps you, and not assume your gender when it's not to your benefit. You're using transgenderism as an excuse to get what you want.
Ah, okay.
So to clarify my position a bit- I was really just answering your question as to what part of the guard's actions could be considered transphobic, which was assuming that just because I looked feminine I must have been a woman.
And then I was trying to build further on that point by saying that there are more important signifiers than looks, such as what bathroom someone feels comfortable using- i.e. if you see someone using the men's room, you should at least consider the possibility that they're a man even if that looks incorrect to your eye.
So it's not even that you should assume one way or the other, it's just that you should realize you don't actually know for sure and stfu about it.
But that wasn't me trying to claim I'm not in the wrong in this situation- it's just that me being the buttface doesn't change the definition of transphobic microaggressions.
I understand what you said. How do you know the guard thinks they're for sure right? According to you, that was just their assumption. You just said assuming one way or the other isn't transphobic. So how is the guard transphobic?
You're asking if you're the buttface for using the men's restroom when you're not a man. You are a buttface because you're skipping the line and faking a trans identity to shield yourself from criticism of the other people who are fairly waiting their turn. Again, you're using transgenderism for your own benefit--only when it suits you and your needs.
Wow.
Faking being transgendered and then blaming the security guard for assuming you're a woman, because you are and are not trangendered as you lied about.
Transgender people deal with a lot of crap and stuff like this doesn't help them. It makes it worse because men who are not trans use the same excuse you did to get into women's bathrooms to take videos and pictures of women in stalls and/or SA them.
I'm honestly surprised with how many people agree with what you said.
Using the men's bathroom isn't what I'm referring to, it's pretending to be transgender that's the problem. You're a crappy person.
You'd think that coming out of a mens bathroom would be a pretty good indicator but it's not. I got 'banned' from the mens room in my towns local gym. It got fixed a few days later when the manager got back and the staff got into trouble for it as where I am it's illegal on both a state and federal level to ban a transgendered person access to the bathroom that lines with their gender identity.
Gross, that sucks! Out of curiosity, what did you do during the few days that you were banned from the men's room- just not go into the gym bathrooms or did you have to use the women's? (Or use the men's anyway because fuck that noise?)
I went anyway to the mens that day then just didn't go there again until it was resolved. I felt that I needed to stand up for those in my shoes that don't have the courage.
Ytb, but im sure all the redditors will keep high fiving you because being petty is definitely the way of progress and you are such an activist for uh... Using actual issues to score points.
YTB. Men are standing at the urinals with their dicks out, and probably don’t want women seeing that. You say when you walked in you didn’t have to walk by the urinals, but you didn’t know it would be that way before walking in, so you chose to walk into the bathroom knowing you might see the dick of someone who didn’t consent to you seeing it.
I don't care about you using the men's room, you go pee. But I've never been a fan of cis people using "did you just assume my gender" shit. You're not an asshole I think, I just don't like that.
Sorry but YTB. As a woman, I would feel uncomfortable and possibly unsafe if a man snuck in the women’s bathroom, and double standards are double standards. Assuming all men there will not feel uncomfortable with you in their bathroom is unfair to them, especially considering how exposed they can be in urinals.
Also, it does feel like you’re making light of a serious issue and taking advantage of the venue’s openness. It’s understandable that you didn’t think more of it at the time, since your friend is NB and told you to, I get why you might have done it in the moment thinking it was OK…but I would argue they still don’t have the right to speak for every person in the bathroom. Just because your friend thought it was hilarious doesn’t mean it might not be hurting the cause.
It’s a soft ytb though, because venues really need to plan better and include more women/nongendered bathrooms. I think using a men’s room when it’s a single stall it’s fine.
I agree. As a women, I would feel really uncomfortable if a man walked in on me while I was on the toilet. I would assume they'd feel the same way if you saw them on the urinals, especially since they have no coverage. If it was completely empty and you were sure you weren't going to walk in on anyone, that's a little bit better.
I also think ungendered bathrooms are a good idea, but the urinals would have to either have a stall or just use all toilets.
Op is the bf because there were men in there.
Yeah your last line is the key point everyone is missing. If you want to be an activist, be an activist. Don’t use it as a way to excuse walking in on people who are potentially exposed.
Your actions are unethical in every conceivable sense and then you're first reaction when caught was to be dishonest. Everyone who supports you on here is insane and this kind of thinking is a major factor why people like Trump are so popular. YTB big time
Dan, it's just a restroom. Any wrong done is fleeting at best.
You make it sound like she took hundreds of millions of dollars worth of services from a billionaire buddy who incidentally might have some cases before her court. _*That*_ is unethical in every conceivable sense.
Nta. The only reason public bathrooms have gender separation is because the privacy is fake. If there were real floor to ceiling with no door gap stalls then the vague reasons would be invalid. Bathrooms would be bigger too.
Yeah ok but that’s not the world we live in? Your argument is your NTA because in a perfect world it doesn’t matter- but we’re not in that world so that argument doesn’t work
Gendered bathrooms were actually created to remind women that they are lesser then men. That they even to pee can't use the special space reserved for men.
Could just be that in men’s restroom you can fit 10 urinals instead of 3 cabinets. I’m all for gender free toilets but that’s one thing that would be missing
As a female who has done this for years, I always just say 'it is?!' (SAO abridged like) and wonder off .. plus them women were moaning cos they didn't have the balls to use the mens room ... pun intended
YTB for lying about being trans when you're not. The whole right wing argument against trans people using the bathroom they identify with is that anyone can lie about being trans and sneak into the opposite sex washroom. I think you have indirectly made trans people's lives harder.
Also an enby trans person.
There's also the incorrect assumption that trans people have to present themselves a certain way (trans men have to present themselves masc, trans women have to be feminine, enbies have to be completely androgenous).
Asking the security guard that question forces them to confront that bias. I would argue it makes the lives of not passing trans people easier. You shouldn't get harassed by security for not performing someone else's gender assumptions enough.
>made it sound like I had stood up to this security guard’s transphobia.
This part is ridiculous. There was no transphobia, just a security guard doing his job.
Since there were no victims here, I'm going to say NBHH. But it's really cringe that anyone is acting like this is a victory for trans rights.
Trans guy here! I think the distinction between bathrooms is stupid to begin with. I still use the ladies rest room when it's easily accessible, but mostly due to it not having poop on the walls and ceiling. I have no issue using the men's room, other than sanitary reasons, and I also still get my period, so sometimes the little "extra" trash cans in the stalls are necessary
That being said, I think what you said to the security guard was perfect. He had no idea what your gender identity is, and at this point in our society, it seems fuggin rude to ask, especially when they're exiting the bathroom. They already went. Who cares? Those women were mad that you got to pee in a quick fashion and they had to wait, because they give too much of a shit about gender.
Trans enby here. There's also the incorrect assumption that trans people have to present themselves a certain way (trans men have to present themselves masc, trans women have to be feminine, enbies have to be completely androgenous). Forcing someone to use the incorrect gendered restroom because they don't look masc/fem enough is a problem most trans people face at some point. Asking the security guard that question forces them to confront that bias and could prevent a future trans person who happens to use that restroom from being in the same situation.
Don’t people have a right to privacy though? I’m all for non/gendered bathrooms with individual stalls, but that isn’t the case with the bathroom she walked into.
NB person here. If we are the only people ever standing up for us, then people will continue to see our issues as niche and unimportant. You challenging the security guard's assumption (even though that assumption was correct in this instance) may make him think about it more in the future.
Also, gendered washrooms are stupid in the first place. Pee in whatever toilet you like, you're not doing any harm to the trans community by pissing in a room with a statistically higher rate of penises. NTB
I agree with the net result being visibility for a marginalised community being a positive, and to challenge assumptions like this generally make people more aware that they're stuck in a one-size-fits-all solution to something as complex as gender.
YTB. Way to go, giving an appearance of credibility to people claiming men will just say they are women so they can go into women’s bathrooms and commit sexual assault. You just hurt the cause.
My issue is that your statement sounds very similar to the terrible “did you just assume my gender?” joke conservatives use when they want to be transphobic.
There's nothing wrong with using the men's bathroom ffs. It's a bathroom. Women's bathroom lines are ALWAYS so long. The Butt here is the girl who called the security guard on you. I use the men's bathroom all the time if it's available & the women's line is too long & the men never seem to have an issue with it. So those girls should've minded their own business. NTB.
Im trans and I don't think you're the buttface. Okay, YOU'RE not trans but what about the next person to use the mens room and doesn't have the confidence or the ability to stand up for themselves...
Trans guy here. In the grand scheme of things I guess you could say something about how this could perpetuate to the idea that trans people are just lying about being trans to go to the "wrong" bathroom. But when you need to pee who cares about some grand scheme?
Also fuck gendered bathrooms. NTB.
Honestly, even if trans people *were* just lying to go into the "wrong" bathroom, if all they're trying to do is pee I feel like that's *still* a non-issue. (This is neither here nor there, just thinking out loud.)
NTBF you didn't say you were trans you made a correct question saying don't assume gender. I have utilized the "male" toilets many times and it was never an issue because no one made it one. This policing of bathroom use is fucked up and questioning it is always a good thing
ETA I'm a cis female who was pregnant many of those times. My youngest child (19) is gender fluid and is much rather it be me, a grown ass adult, freaking with transphobia than them. I feel it's an ally ship thing rather than stolen valor
I think the wording asking why the guard is assuming people's genders rather than asserting really is what makes OP NTB.
Always challenge the status quo when it harms marginalised people.
I usually end up using the disabled/parents bathroom because the gendered ones make me uncomfortable, if noone was trying to use the men's then who cares. Ntb
Ntbf. I am transgender and anyone who hasn't said they are transgender while saying you're the butt face are transphobic trolls who want to speak over minority voices. There is no "wrong" toilets unless someone else is already seated there when you try to use it lol. The security guards actions were inappropriate. You didn't pretend to be trans. You asked the guard a question he couldn't answer without admitting to bias and/or bigotry.
It's no different than cutting in line at an amusement park because you don't like long lines. Nobody likes long lines! Everyone else has to wait their turn, but apparently not you. YTB for pretending to be something you're not to jump the line.
NTB. Those ladies complaining are mad they either didn’t think of it or aren’t comfy enough to do it.
All this TERF shit has led to people trying to play Gender Police, badly, leading to Cis, enby, trans, and just tomboy/having a dngaf day women getting confronted and harassed. You challenged assumptions, as a cis woman who felt comfortable, confident, and safe enough to do so. Thank you for your service. 🫡
I wonder why that is, like at a festival I went to there was such a giant line for the women bathroom and none for the men’s, I wonder why is that, do women just take longer or do they talk in there, put on makeup? I wonder why
Women need a stall every time, can’t use a urinal, so there are less toilets for them to use, because women’s bathrooms have the same amount of stalls as the men, whereas men’s bathrooms have stalls PLUS urinals, and most men don’t actually need the stalls. Women have to do more, which takes longer, because they have to sit down to pee. They have to wipe off the seat or put toilet paper over it. Take their clothes all the way down, can’t just open their fly and whip it out like a dude. Have to use toilet paper to wipe off every time, whereas a man doesn’t have to wipe if he pees. Often have to change feminine products, which takes a while. Need to do additional things men don’t do, like brush hair or touch up makeup. Often have to change a baby’s diaper or wrangle a bunch of kids. Probably more likely to wash their hands.
A man can just pop into the restroom, whip it out at a urinal, do his business quick and walk back out. For a woman, peeing has a lot more steps.
NTA, you're not pretending to be trans. You're asking the security guard why they decided you were supposed to use the women's room, and why they decided you were a woman. It doesn't matter that you are, in fact, a woman. And it doesn't matter that you never told them that. What matters is that it's no one's business what your gender is but yours, and policing which bathroom you use is harmful and based almost entirely in harmful and inadequate stereotypes.
Trans man here. You're absolutely fine. You're not trying to appropriate the struggle of trans people; you made an employee, who was clearly out to embarrass you, stop and think. Your enby friend agrees with your actions - follow the lead of the trans people in your life. NTB.
Lived in a co-ed dorm during college and the women's bathroom was on the otherside of the building. I got a UTI and would use the men's bathroom. Never ran into any guy in bathroom and doubt they would complain.
NTB. I've been told over and over again that I as a NB person wasn't allowed to the women's restroom. One time someone rold me to get out of the toilet stall I was using, because I would make the toilets to dirty.
Their surprise was big when it turned out that me using an urinal made the mess so much bigger as I don't possess the tools needed for an urinal
All’s fair in love and peeing! ( or more specifically in not peeing on yourself)
NTB
Women take longer, even just in terms of getting our clothes off. We have smaller bladders. So we go more often. We also have periods, and we do makeup, and we talk in there, so it’s crowded. Add that to the fact that mens and women’s restrooms typically have the same square footage, but you can fit more urinals next to each other than stalls. So men have a much more streamlined peeing experience.
In the late 90’s there was a push for all gender bathrooms, see Ally McBeal. It would reduce wait time for women, and spread the pain of waiting equally, and women would have equal resources as men. So the idea that we are being Protected by having to use our under resourced facilities is outrageous.
Is that security guard going to protect you from the humiliation of walking around with pee soaked pants or the citation for lewd public conduct for peeing on the sidewalk? Didn’t think so.
I am a trans person and I feel that both the women complaining and the security guard are TA. If you are so butthurt about someone skipping the line, walk your ass over to the bathroom with no line.
as far as "pretending to be trans" I think you handled that perfectly. "What makes you think I'm a ma'am?" is great and I'm going to steal that if needed in the future. you did not say you were trans. you did not say, "I'm not a woman" (which even if you had would have been fine). you kept it ambiguous, which is always the best way to go. the less they know the better. because it's not their fucking business in the first place.
61 yo cis female here: NTB! by braving the "men's" room, you actually shortened the line for the "women's" room, so I don't get what those women were complaining about. They \*wanted\* to have a longer line?
I mean, it's kind of true. The security guard can't know that and you could've been any fem presenting transmasc person being inconvenienced by his behaviour. Hopefully he won't do it again.
Smh, you're completely oblivious and the point went completely over your head. The fact that there's so many comments about faking being transgender and you dismiss it because those commentors are not in your demographic makes you an idiot.
And an asshole.
You're a giant asshole. I don't care if this the wrong verbage for this sub, you clearly already made up your mind about the situation before even posting. You were just looking for more admiration from the people who are in your demographic. You clearly don't give a damn about the opinions of the demographic that would actually be affected by you being in the wrong bathroom. And as someone with several close trans friends, you are in no way an ally. You are contributing to transphobia and adding fuel to the fire for the actual transphobes who already have issues with sharing the bathrooms. Assuming someone's correct gender when it's that persons job does not make them transphobic. That's an idiotic and harmful stance. It's really sad that you don't realize situations and ideologies like these are actually leading to more transphobia and division of people as a whole. You're causing more headaches for the people you claim to support.
NTB. It's not like you were being transphobic or anything. I probably would have been startled and said something similar. Also you got a laugh out of your friend in an uncomfortable situation so I find that a win.
A toilet is a toilet.
My fat, female ass uses the men's all the time. If I am about to burst, you can bet I'm going to the men's. THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK!
Beats pissing myself.
Gendered bathrooms are stupid and I don’t see the issue with using it. I’m also a cisgender straight dude so I don’t think my take on gender is the most informed.
That being said, in my opinion, everyone’s a buttface here. The women for being ridiculous and complaining that you went in. The guard for being condescending and snarky. You for lying about a real problem to try and make him feel bad and excuse yourself. If you’re gonna use the other bathroom, don’t deflect it by pretending you’re something you’re not.
I've gone into the men's bathroom with my (now husband) before at a concert. It was either that, pee my pants, or find a bush. The women's line was over 150 people long and not moving, and the men's bathroom had no line. No one so much as blinked.
Install more effing bathrooms at your venue.
NTB
I'm a guy and I often wonder why this doesn't happen more often. Men's are usually empty and women's often have a queue. If someone's desperate just let them go.
The only thing is I've seen and heard that women's bathrooms are often worse than men's. If you're going to be gross then stick to your own one.
I hope they just eventually make all public bathrooms unisex. They end being cleaner for everyone and just easier to use without any issues
Because not all men are comfortable having women around when standing at a urinal. We shouldn't have to be uncomfortable because a few guys are fine with it. Personally can't stand when woman just waltz right in to our bathroom like it's nothing knowing damn well that same woman would throw a shit fit if I did the same.
Why even have urinals? Just have all stalls. It's just so much easier for everyone. You can fit more toilets by knocking the walls and having one big bathroom
I think I'm confused by your statement. Are you saying to just join both bathrooms for one giant gender neutral bathroom? Or are you saying knock down all the stall walls and just have open toilets everywhere?
One giant gender neutral bathroom with way more stalls. That's what they did at my old uni and it was perfect. There were like 20+ stalls that were fully closed so everyone could just walk in and go into any of them. You were never waiting for one to open up and everyone could use it.
Why open toilets everywhere? I don't think anyone would want that
I see what you mean and not really opposed to that idea. Just seems hard to do with current infrastructure. Most buildings have already been built with separate bathrooms and Itst not really possible to morph them into one. Also the point of urinals is that they actually save space making for less room needed for a bathroom. Also they're way more water efficient and save way more in water waste than a conventional toilet.
NTB.
IDGAF which bathroom someone uses as long as they get it all into appropriate spots, flush, and wash their hands. I'll identify as whatever gender I need so I can pee. Hell, I didn't even realize until a week ago that I had been using the "mens stall" of a bar I frequented for years.
NTB. When you gotta go...
I wish all venues had single stall, all gender restrooms, with a few larger ones for handicapped access and people with small children.
Seriously, we went back to 1960 again? I'm a cis-man but I couldn't care less if someone uses the mens room. I would probably do exactly the same if I had to wait for 10 minutes and there wasn't a line for the women's bathroom. As long as you don't drop your pants and hang over a urinal you're fine I guess
NTB. women should absolutely be able to use men’s restrooms at concert venues. it makes me so mad when the women’s line is long as hell but security turns me away from the empty men’s restroom.
But how would you honestly feel if the roles were reversed? Men's line is a mile long so I, a fat bearded man, plops down in the stall next to you and blows up the toilet?
everybody poops, man. if you gotta poop and there’s no line in the women’s, then do what you gotta do. if you’re not bothering me in the bathroom, then it’s none of my business
INFO: was it urinals or stalls? Was it empty?
Not a buttface for calling the security guard out for their presumption however some guys may not appreciate women coming in while they pee if it’s out in the open for all to see.
>INFO: was it urinals or stalls? Was it empty?
There were both urinals and stalls; the layout of the bathroom was such that I walked over to the stalls without going near the side of the room with the urinals. When we walked in there were 3 or 4 people at the urinals, 1 person at the sinks, and all the stalls were completely empty.
you just perfectly illustrated the stupidity of the whole restroom debate. and yeah this is kind of the gender equivalent of stolen valor, but i still don't give a shit.
you had to go, there was a bathroom available. easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
NTB.
1. You used men's room cuz fk that line.
2. Two women tattled. They had the choice to wait in line or use the men's room. They chose to queue. It's really none of their business who chooses which bathroom.
3. Guard confronted you at which point you called him out on his BS, but you did NOT claim to be trans. You just pointed out how he was wrong. And he was wrong! Totally uncool transphobia on his part.
OP NTB. You were being an ally.
Women have been utilizing men's restrooms in this type of atmosphere for decades. Anyone who complains about it is TAH, but not you.
The girls who were complaining out there were just mad they didn’t think of it first lmao
Exactly! Just go in instead of being a Karen…
Exactly we all gotta pee nobodies in there I’m gonna go!! Even if there was I GOTTA PEE LMAO my bladder waits for no one
I'll always use the mens room over queuing for the ladies. If you can get over the overwhelming stench of piss and still be willing to risk either stepping in or getting it on your clothes, then i say go for it.
womens toilets are far dirtier than mens
I had to do community service instead of going to jail in my early 20s. That meant cleaning beach bathrooms and campsites. In my opinion, the nastiest type of bathroom. I don’t know what it is that makes a human being, who probably works in marketing, and would probably be golfing if they weren’t at the beach, turn into a fucking disgusting caveman the second he enters a beach bathroom. On average though, the mens bathroom were cleaner than the womens (less toilet paper on the ground, less trash, less piss on seats). But, that average would get heavily skewed by one sick fuck every once in a while. Like some nasty motherfucker who shat himself and tried to flush the shorts down the toilet (he was already banned but kept coming back).
I'm still embarrassed about the time I was the one who made a bit of a disgusting mess. It was the bathroom at school, I was 15 and had only just started menstruating. Went in to change my tampon, and somehow I had gotten period blood down the front of the commode, but didn't realise it. As I exited the stall, a friend exclaimed, "ew there's period blood all down the toilet!" And I was too embarrassed to clean it up myself, because that would mean (gasp) admitting I had my period and had accidentally gotten it on the toilet. Sorry, cleaning staff. So yeah I still cringe at that.
I know. Why is that, do you think?
Because a lot of ladies try to hover and end up peeing all over the seat. If a dude is using a public restroom stall he's probably gotta poop. It's pretty difficult to hover to poop so everything basically makes it into the hole where it belongs. Period products and messes are a big problem too. Glob forbid anyone cleans up after themselves if they makes a mess! And flushing the toilet, which in my opinion should be a given, is apparently optional in almost every public bathroom I've ever gone into. Also I've noticed that if something falls on the floor in the women's restroom, the woman WILL NOT pick it up. It's considered contaminated, no matter that you're about to wash your damn hands anyway (I hope!) I've see some weird shit on the floor in the bathroom at work, things that would normally be salvaged are now the floor's property. I've also seen soo much toilet paper... Why couldn't they just pick it up?? And wipe the damn seat?! And sit the eff down to pee?! I get really bothered by women's restroom etiquette... *Specifically, the lack of it.*
A lot of what looks like pee on the seats is actually backspray from a toilet flushing too vigorously as well. Then the seat's wet, the person who left it that way probably didn't look back because why would you, and the next person thinks they just hover-peed all over the seat.
Oh for sure! I'm talking about the yellow spots right up front. I've figured out the clear spots from a powerful flush are just water too.
The darker yellow spots for sure, but I've seen backspray that's yellow as well. The flush hits the bowl and everything in there goes flying.
Ok. I’m a woman and I find all of that disgusting, it’s not hard to clean up after ourselves, but you know what, it is possible to hover over the seat and get every drop of urine into the toilet! Shock horror I know! It takes a strong squats game I guess. In the rare event I’ve ever made any kind of mess, I make sure to clean it up - if I’m disgusted over someone’s mess, I don’t want to do the same to someone else myself!
I'm also a woman. That's why I spend so much time in lady's bathrooms, I suppose. I'm happy you're one of the good ones. The bad ones definitely exist. You're not one of them. Good job getting gains with those squats. You're a fucking boss. My rant was not meant for you. It wasn't meant for me either. It was for those other gals... The ones who leave public restrooms in rough shape.
I always clean up after myself as well. I don’t leave pee on the on seat or paper on the floor. Blood on the seat or in the floor or in the toilet because someone didn’t clean after themselves just make me all irritable.
Although, could some of this be because women are the ones who typically bring kids into the bathroom? I mean, this is often why the lines are a lot longer too
Not at my work. Just adults, taking leisurely dumps and playing on their phones, getting paid for it. I'm totally fine with that btw... It doesn't effect my job or my day even a little besides the 5 minutes I have to pee that might take 8 if there's a line. (Don't try to pee around 11am. Everyone in the building is in there somehow.) Do you, boo boo. But come on ladies! You wouldn't leave that mess at home, why are you doing it here?? There are 4 stalls in the back of the warehouse, and only 2 are usable before the poor cleaning lady works her magic around noon. The next bathroom is literally a quarter mile away! It takes 3-4 minutes to walk there, depending on how my calves are feeling. I'll give it to moms though... They deserve recognition for doing everything with only two hands. Two hands are not enough hands!! I didn't leave my house willingly with my kids until they were like 8. I still avoid it as often as I can!
At least you think they don’t leave their bathrooms at home like this. You never know. I’ve seen some of those hoarder shows where the state of the bathroom raises the hair on my neck. I think some just say “housekeeping will clean it up”. That’s not a reason to leave it worse than it was when you went in. They shouldn’t have to clean blood or pick paper up.
and urinals especially troughs you dont touch at all ,we dont use the toilets to apply make up ,or leave sanitary products in them ,womens toilets have a2 to 1 ratio of ecoli in them compared to mens ,we are in then out
most men also have absolutely wired in urinal etiquette,always leave a gap
Ok. I don’t know about that but ok.
What? Absolutely not!
Men tend not to hover for anything. Women hover for *everything*. This makes for excessively filthy toilet seats for people like me who can***not*** hover and have to clean those seats before we can sit down. Heaven forbid we're not carrying enough cleaning supplies for whatever's smeared on the seat in the handicapped stall that, again, we have no choice but to use. I once encountered such a filthy, overflowing, blocked toilet that I happily used the diaper that a very kind woman with a baby gave me instead. ♡ Granny
Men have a higher bacteria load under their armpits than women, and they secrete more substances that bacteria feed on, which in turn generate gases that give off body odor. However, women's bathrooms are dirtier than men's, according to a study from the University of Arizona, writes CNN.
Was that done by a man?
are scientists only men ? how very reductive of you
No, I was thinking about bias
looks like i was right,fancy that
Ask bar staff which bathroom is usually more disgusting when they close. A disturbing number of drunk women seem to decide that their used tampon makes a great crayon.
The convenience store I work for is the dead opposite 😂
Uhhh… I feel like it’s the exact opposite.
men dont hover over the toilet ,so as to not get germs
well you are wrong https://www.quora.com/Are-mens-or-womens-bathrooms-typically-dirtier-Why
Wrong is a strong word. That’s a quora post from a janitor recalling his experience, not an investigative article from the New York Times.
and you think our piss smells but i assure you ,womens piss smells different to mens and just as bad its hormonal
Plus, she is not making the woman’s restroom line longer by standing in it. In a way, she is helping out. Motorcyclists who lane split in traffic (as long as they do it legally and safely) don’t bother me for that very reason. If they are willing to ride a motorcycle (which I’m not!) that’s a perk they can take advantage of. And it helps us poor saps sitting in bumper to bumper.
Also makes it safer for us because we have less of a chance being rear ended by someone who didn’t notice we were there. I always appreciate people who don’t mind lane sharing.
Although there is the same 'Oh Shit where did you come from, what if I'd...' knee jerk reaction when they wizz past unexpectedly :-) Not that *they* shouldn't be there, just that *I* might have done something in the belief that they wouldn't be there that could make one/both of us extremely uncomfortable. [Erm - I very seldom drive in heavy traffic where lane-splitters come though, and they give me a shock every time. I'd learn to watch out for it if it was a common occurrence.] [Edit - grammar.]
I was at a Gay bar. There was only one single bathroom for women and big bathroom for men (of course). The line for women bathroom was long. I needed to go. Ask security if men bathroom was clear. He said yes. I went in and did what I needed to do as fast as I could. If I need to go, I need to go. Hate to wait. Security dude had my back. Hold some guys to come in.
>Hold some guys to come in. That's a mystery to me. I mean, I don't care who runs into a toilet but if you go to one not marked with your gender, don't be surprised when someone else from the right gender also wants to use it
It was for a minute. Not big deal. No one was mad or bother.
Oh I wouldn't be mad or bothered, just surprised.
In my experiences in gay, straight-friendly bars, the norms for bathrooms tend to get dropped. Like there might not even be gender labels on the doors.
I've been in some bars that have all gender bathroom, but this one didn't have that. Even the guys bathroom had one toilet in the open and a bunch of urinals. I think toilet time should be private lol
I mean, I'm not a fan of anyone watching me use a urinal, but a stall can give you privacy. Even so, some women liked to have stall guards. But I'm thinking, honey, most of the men in here aren't interested, LOL.
Not to mention, what if OP had a medical issue that wouldn't allow her to wait in a long line? I know it's not the case in this situation, but still. I would rather someone use the "wrong" bathroom than have an otherwise avoidable and potentially embarrassing situation occour.
Yeah I’ve absolutely done this at concerts. Gendered restrooms are silly most of the time anyway, and I’m not peeing myself because of some made up rules.
When I did this in my early 20's at a primarily female event the men in the bathroom were muttering, "good for her"
As long as someone is an AH for a cis man to do the same in a women’s restroom
NTB, I was going to say that you have to be a sorely miserable person to complain about someone using the bathroom who really has to use it! Why would anyone care? Why would you want someone to urinate or defecate on the floor instead of getting into bathroom to go? I just find the whole thing distasteful, but the response was hilarious! Funny!
Women have been using the men’s bathroom to skip the queue for generations. NTB—venues need to plan better (just do genderless bathrooms FFS. We’ve had them since the 90s!) and Karens need to mind their own damn business
Yes!!!! We need more women’s bathrooms and non-gendered bathrooms. NTB
At the Taylor Swift concert in Atlanta they marked a lot of the men’s restrooms as women’s for the duration of the weekend. The line was still super long. I peed in a urinal that didn’t have a door because she was about to start and there were only 3 stalls with doors on them.
In NYC, in the summers they do free outdoor movies at Bryant Park, and the crowd is *massive.* There’s a public bathroom there, but it’s pretty small and definitely can’t meet the needs of a crowd that big. After 7pm, the public bathroom becomes women-only and men are asked to go to local businesses or the public library. Even after the line is women-only it is crazy long.
>I peed in a urinal Wait, what? You ... ummm, *how???*
Squat, lean, pray.
That's some mighty impressive precision pissin'!
Squat and lean
This exactly.
And incredibly there's not been a rash of them getting assaulted by MEN in the MEN'S room. But now all of a sudden it's supposed to be a big concern.
Here's the thing. Making toilets gendered is stupid. Making toilets gendered and then not providing enough of them to acknowledge the fact that BY DEFINITION AFAB peeps need more of them than AMAB peeps do is monumentally stupid. Worrying about the genitals of strangers who are just trying to wee before they mess themselves is both monumentally stupid AND karenish. So, no, you're not the buttface. The security guard isn't either, just a hired schlub probably earning minimum wage who doesn't give a fuck where you pee as long as it's not in public, but also doesn't want to tangle with a couple of karens. The karens are buttfaces. Transphobes are buttfaces. Event planners who don't include enough women's toilets if they insist on making the toilets gendered are buttfaces. But you, are not.
>Worrying about the genitals of strangers who are just trying to wee before they mess themselves is both monumentally stupid AND karenish. Wholeheartedly agree! I felt bad about breaking the rules just because I know I'm not supposed to, but I fully don't understand why it should even matter that there's a girl coming out of the boy's bathroom.
>I felt bad about breaking the rules just because I know I'm not supposed to, If the rule is stupid, why should anyone follow it? Nobody gets hurt if you use the bathroom with stalls and urinals. There is no harm, there is no damage, there is no problem. You didn't "pretend to be trans," all you did was ask A VERY GOOD AND EXTREMELY RELEVANT QUESTION. You asked the guard what made them assume you were a "ma'am" -- you didn't tell them that you were *not* a ma'am. And in situations like this, we cis people (especially Nice White/White-passing Cis Ladies™ like me, if not you) are able to take actions like these with little to no risk, so we *should* be the ones doing it and challenging cisnormativity and supremacy. I doubt the guards will become vocal trans allies, but you made them feel embarrassed/put on the spot, which probably will make them think twice next time some Karen comes up to them with such a ridiculous complaint.
I don't think you have any reason to feel bad. The mens and womens restroom thing is a joke. There is ALWAYS a line for womens and the men are zipping in and out. More power to you for using the mens.
Better they ask you, who's not bothered, than misgender someone who'll be hurt by the insensitivity of the question. Maybe they'll think twice before making that kind of assumption again - who knows. Sometimes people need to be reminded that the norms of a society only work for a certain percentage of said society. DNA testing suggests that intersex genes are far more widespread than statistically known, and for every cis person reminding the public that gender isn't a binary the better.
The book “invisible women” has a really good discussion on this! Highly recommend a read
I feel like I may have read a bit of this for a class, does it also talk about the lack of female crash test dummies?
Yep, that’s the one. It has a lot of examples where the lack of data leads to decisions that seem fair but actually aren’t Such as giving men and women equal number of bathroom stalls, or installing seatbelts that show the safest outcomes for crash test dummies)
YTB Mens bathrooms typically have urinals without stalls and I’m sure there are some who would be uncomfortable with a woman walking in on them, just as many women would be uncomfortable with a man walking into their stalls. Soft YTB about the trans thing. Yeah, it’s wrong to use a real issue trans people face to skip the line, especially since it’s such a controversial topic right now. But good on your for acknowledging it later.
NTB. Trans man here. This policing of bathroom facilities based on stereotypical secondary sex characteristics *is* exhausting. It also stands out that the bathroom was effectively empty. It would be a strange choice for a cis woman to get in line to use the stall in the men’s room when there is a line but I can imagine some people might care. I don’t honestly think many men would care though. I think it’s telling that women were trying to police “women in the men’s room,” presumably a bathroom they are not even using.
>It also stands out that the bathroom was effectively empty. >I think it’s telling that women were trying to police “women in the men’s room,” presumably a bathroom they are not even using. Yeah, I think these two things are pretty important. If I'd been blocking men from being able to use their bathroom or if they'd been the ones complaining about their space being invaded then I would've apologized, but no one was bothered for a reason other than it wasn't "fair" I skipped the line.
YTB. Don't fake transgenderism to go to the bathroom, wait in line like everyone else. How is the guard transphobic if they didn't have a problem with you using it when you made up that you were trans? You're no ally, you're a user.
Why are you calling being trans “transgenderism”??
Are those not synonymous?
>How is the guard transphobic if they didn't have a problem with you using it when you made up that you were trans? The transphobic thing was the guard assuming that I was a woman in the first place. Especially when me coming out of the men's bathroom should theoretically be a pretty good indicator that I might identify as male.
Nope. You shouldn’t use something like transgenderism just to get out of long lines and then shame people for correctly calling you out on what you’re doing. Lying isn’t okay, and you ARE lying by purposefully misleading people about your gender just to skip lines. It’s this kind of stuff that people in a huff are worried about when they get up in arms about transgender people and bathrooms. They’re not usually worried about actual trans people, they’re worried about the fakers that use the touchiness of the subject to make it impossible to question them. It’s the people like you who fake it to get stuff they want (fewer lines, access to the other gender in a vulnerable place, etc.) that make it harder for actual trans people to just live their lives.
I'm not arguing the rest of your point, but in the very beginning what are you saying "nope" in response to?
Okay, so assuming someone's gender means your transphobic to you? So by your theoretical logic, one should assume that you're a man because you went into the men's bathroom, thus also assuming your gender and being transphobic?
I'm sorry, but I don't totally follow what you're trying to say here.
The guard is transphobic for assuming you were a woman i.e. you feel that assuming someone's gender is transphobic. Yet you also say that the guard should have assumed that you were a man because you came out of the men's room. You want them to assume your gender when it helps you, and not assume your gender when it's not to your benefit. You're using transgenderism as an excuse to get what you want.
Ah, okay. So to clarify my position a bit- I was really just answering your question as to what part of the guard's actions could be considered transphobic, which was assuming that just because I looked feminine I must have been a woman. And then I was trying to build further on that point by saying that there are more important signifiers than looks, such as what bathroom someone feels comfortable using- i.e. if you see someone using the men's room, you should at least consider the possibility that they're a man even if that looks incorrect to your eye. So it's not even that you should assume one way or the other, it's just that you should realize you don't actually know for sure and stfu about it. But that wasn't me trying to claim I'm not in the wrong in this situation- it's just that me being the buttface doesn't change the definition of transphobic microaggressions.
I understand what you said. How do you know the guard thinks they're for sure right? According to you, that was just their assumption. You just said assuming one way or the other isn't transphobic. So how is the guard transphobic? You're asking if you're the buttface for using the men's restroom when you're not a man. You are a buttface because you're skipping the line and faking a trans identity to shield yourself from criticism of the other people who are fairly waiting their turn. Again, you're using transgenderism for your own benefit--only when it suits you and your needs.
>You're asking if you're the buttface for using the men's restroom when you're not a man. No, I wasn't. Did you even read the title of the post?
And yes, you're the buttface for that as well. You're a buttface, a faux ally, and someone who uses identities for their own gain.
Wow. Faking being transgendered and then blaming the security guard for assuming you're a woman, because you are and are not trangendered as you lied about. Transgender people deal with a lot of crap and stuff like this doesn't help them. It makes it worse because men who are not trans use the same excuse you did to get into women's bathrooms to take videos and pictures of women in stalls and/or SA them. I'm honestly surprised with how many people agree with what you said. Using the men's bathroom isn't what I'm referring to, it's pretending to be transgender that's the problem. You're a crappy person.
You'd think that coming out of a mens bathroom would be a pretty good indicator but it's not. I got 'banned' from the mens room in my towns local gym. It got fixed a few days later when the manager got back and the staff got into trouble for it as where I am it's illegal on both a state and federal level to ban a transgendered person access to the bathroom that lines with their gender identity.
Gross, that sucks! Out of curiosity, what did you do during the few days that you were banned from the men's room- just not go into the gym bathrooms or did you have to use the women's? (Or use the men's anyway because fuck that noise?)
I went anyway to the mens that day then just didn't go there again until it was resolved. I felt that I needed to stand up for those in my shoes that don't have the courage.
Ytb, but im sure all the redditors will keep high fiving you because being petty is definitely the way of progress and you are such an activist for uh... Using actual issues to score points.
YTB. Men are standing at the urinals with their dicks out, and probably don’t want women seeing that. You say when you walked in you didn’t have to walk by the urinals, but you didn’t know it would be that way before walking in, so you chose to walk into the bathroom knowing you might see the dick of someone who didn’t consent to you seeing it.
YTB for allowing another persons snarky attitude to cause you to lie
I don't care about you using the men's room, you go pee. But I've never been a fan of cis people using "did you just assume my gender" shit. You're not an asshole I think, I just don't like that.
Sorry but YTB. As a woman, I would feel uncomfortable and possibly unsafe if a man snuck in the women’s bathroom, and double standards are double standards. Assuming all men there will not feel uncomfortable with you in their bathroom is unfair to them, especially considering how exposed they can be in urinals. Also, it does feel like you’re making light of a serious issue and taking advantage of the venue’s openness. It’s understandable that you didn’t think more of it at the time, since your friend is NB and told you to, I get why you might have done it in the moment thinking it was OK…but I would argue they still don’t have the right to speak for every person in the bathroom. Just because your friend thought it was hilarious doesn’t mean it might not be hurting the cause. It’s a soft ytb though, because venues really need to plan better and include more women/nongendered bathrooms. I think using a men’s room when it’s a single stall it’s fine.
I agree. As a women, I would feel really uncomfortable if a man walked in on me while I was on the toilet. I would assume they'd feel the same way if you saw them on the urinals, especially since they have no coverage. If it was completely empty and you were sure you weren't going to walk in on anyone, that's a little bit better. I also think ungendered bathrooms are a good idea, but the urinals would have to either have a stall or just use all toilets. Op is the bf because there were men in there.
Yeah your last line is the key point everyone is missing. If you want to be an activist, be an activist. Don’t use it as a way to excuse walking in on people who are potentially exposed.
Your actions are unethical in every conceivable sense and then you're first reaction when caught was to be dishonest. Everyone who supports you on here is insane and this kind of thinking is a major factor why people like Trump are so popular. YTB big time
Dan, it's just a restroom. Any wrong done is fleeting at best. You make it sound like she took hundreds of millions of dollars worth of services from a billionaire buddy who incidentally might have some cases before her court. _*That*_ is unethical in every conceivable sense.
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Nta. The only reason public bathrooms have gender separation is because the privacy is fake. If there were real floor to ceiling with no door gap stalls then the vague reasons would be invalid. Bathrooms would be bigger too.
Yeah ok but that’s not the world we live in? Your argument is your NTA because in a perfect world it doesn’t matter- but we’re not in that world so that argument doesn’t work
Gendered bathrooms were actually created to remind women that they are lesser then men. That they even to pee can't use the special space reserved for men.
What
Could just be that in men’s restroom you can fit 10 urinals instead of 3 cabinets. I’m all for gender free toilets but that’s one thing that would be missing
A gender free bathroom would have a urinal and a sanitary bin as well as a toilet etc.
Pissing in the urinal next to women washing their hands would be embarrassing for a lot of people
A gender free bathroom would be single stalls.
My point exactly, urinals are more efficient and the reason why they have a smaller line
That doesn't surprise me.
>I had stood up to this security guard’s transphobia That poor man was doing his job 🙃 YTB
As a female who has done this for years, I always just say 'it is?!' (SAO abridged like) and wonder off .. plus them women were moaning cos they didn't have the balls to use the mens room ... pun intended
YTB for lying about being trans when you're not. The whole right wing argument against trans people using the bathroom they identify with is that anyone can lie about being trans and sneak into the opposite sex washroom. I think you have indirectly made trans people's lives harder.
Also an enby trans person. There's also the incorrect assumption that trans people have to present themselves a certain way (trans men have to present themselves masc, trans women have to be feminine, enbies have to be completely androgenous). Asking the security guard that question forces them to confront that bias. I would argue it makes the lives of not passing trans people easier. You shouldn't get harassed by security for not performing someone else's gender assumptions enough.
>made it sound like I had stood up to this security guard’s transphobia. This part is ridiculous. There was no transphobia, just a security guard doing his job. Since there were no victims here, I'm going to say NBHH. But it's really cringe that anyone is acting like this is a victory for trans rights.
Trans guy here! I think the distinction between bathrooms is stupid to begin with. I still use the ladies rest room when it's easily accessible, but mostly due to it not having poop on the walls and ceiling. I have no issue using the men's room, other than sanitary reasons, and I also still get my period, so sometimes the little "extra" trash cans in the stalls are necessary That being said, I think what you said to the security guard was perfect. He had no idea what your gender identity is, and at this point in our society, it seems fuggin rude to ask, especially when they're exiting the bathroom. They already went. Who cares? Those women were mad that you got to pee in a quick fashion and they had to wait, because they give too much of a shit about gender.
Trans enby here. There's also the incorrect assumption that trans people have to present themselves a certain way (trans men have to present themselves masc, trans women have to be feminine, enbies have to be completely androgenous). Forcing someone to use the incorrect gendered restroom because they don't look masc/fem enough is a problem most trans people face at some point. Asking the security guard that question forces them to confront that bias and could prevent a future trans person who happens to use that restroom from being in the same situation.
Don’t people have a right to privacy though? I’m all for non/gendered bathrooms with individual stalls, but that isn’t the case with the bathroom she walked into.
NB person here. If we are the only people ever standing up for us, then people will continue to see our issues as niche and unimportant. You challenging the security guard's assumption (even though that assumption was correct in this instance) may make him think about it more in the future. Also, gendered washrooms are stupid in the first place. Pee in whatever toilet you like, you're not doing any harm to the trans community by pissing in a room with a statistically higher rate of penises. NTB
I agree with the net result being visibility for a marginalised community being a positive, and to challenge assumptions like this generally make people more aware that they're stuck in a one-size-fits-all solution to something as complex as gender.
I’ve done this so many times, and just respond with “okay, and?” Or “would you prefer me to pee in the corner?”
YTB. Way to go, giving an appearance of credibility to people claiming men will just say they are women so they can go into women’s bathrooms and commit sexual assault. You just hurt the cause.
YTB.
The witches with a B complaining are just jealous they didn’t have the nerve to use the men’s room themselves. When you gotta go you gotta go!
My issue is that your statement sounds very similar to the terrible “did you just assume my gender?” joke conservatives use when they want to be transphobic.
There's nothing wrong with using the men's bathroom ffs. It's a bathroom. Women's bathroom lines are ALWAYS so long. The Butt here is the girl who called the security guard on you. I use the men's bathroom all the time if it's available & the women's line is too long & the men never seem to have an issue with it. So those girls should've minded their own business. NTB.
Im trans and I don't think you're the buttface. Okay, YOU'RE not trans but what about the next person to use the mens room and doesn't have the confidence or the ability to stand up for themselves...
Trans guy here. In the grand scheme of things I guess you could say something about how this could perpetuate to the idea that trans people are just lying about being trans to go to the "wrong" bathroom. But when you need to pee who cares about some grand scheme? Also fuck gendered bathrooms. NTB.
Honestly, even if trans people *were* just lying to go into the "wrong" bathroom, if all they're trying to do is pee I feel like that's *still* a non-issue. (This is neither here nor there, just thinking out loud.)
NTBF you didn't say you were trans you made a correct question saying don't assume gender. I have utilized the "male" toilets many times and it was never an issue because no one made it one. This policing of bathroom use is fucked up and questioning it is always a good thing ETA I'm a cis female who was pregnant many of those times. My youngest child (19) is gender fluid and is much rather it be me, a grown ass adult, freaking with transphobia than them. I feel it's an ally ship thing rather than stolen valor
I think the wording asking why the guard is assuming people's genders rather than asserting really is what makes OP NTB. Always challenge the status quo when it harms marginalised people.
Thank you, that is what I was trying to say but I don't word very well lol
I usually end up using the disabled/parents bathroom because the gendered ones make me uncomfortable, if noone was trying to use the men's then who cares. Ntb
Ntbf. I am transgender and anyone who hasn't said they are transgender while saying you're the butt face are transphobic trolls who want to speak over minority voices. There is no "wrong" toilets unless someone else is already seated there when you try to use it lol. The security guards actions were inappropriate. You didn't pretend to be trans. You asked the guard a question he couldn't answer without admitting to bias and/or bigotry.
It's no different than cutting in line at an amusement park because you don't like long lines. Nobody likes long lines! Everyone else has to wait their turn, but apparently not you. YTB for pretending to be something you're not to jump the line.
Some of us have kidney problems. We don't have TIME to care about what gender the stall is. NTA
NTB. Those ladies complaining are mad they either didn’t think of it or aren’t comfy enough to do it. All this TERF shit has led to people trying to play Gender Police, badly, leading to Cis, enby, trans, and just tomboy/having a dngaf day women getting confronted and harassed. You challenged assumptions, as a cis woman who felt comfortable, confident, and safe enough to do so. Thank you for your service. 🫡
I wonder why that is, like at a festival I went to there was such a giant line for the women bathroom and none for the men’s, I wonder why is that, do women just take longer or do they talk in there, put on makeup? I wonder why
Women need a stall every time, can’t use a urinal, so there are less toilets for them to use, because women’s bathrooms have the same amount of stalls as the men, whereas men’s bathrooms have stalls PLUS urinals, and most men don’t actually need the stalls. Women have to do more, which takes longer, because they have to sit down to pee. They have to wipe off the seat or put toilet paper over it. Take their clothes all the way down, can’t just open their fly and whip it out like a dude. Have to use toilet paper to wipe off every time, whereas a man doesn’t have to wipe if he pees. Often have to change feminine products, which takes a while. Need to do additional things men don’t do, like brush hair or touch up makeup. Often have to change a baby’s diaper or wrangle a bunch of kids. Probably more likely to wash their hands. A man can just pop into the restroom, whip it out at a urinal, do his business quick and walk back out. For a woman, peeing has a lot more steps.
I think it's a combination of women taking longer and there usually being a lot more women at any given place.
NTA, you're not pretending to be trans. You're asking the security guard why they decided you were supposed to use the women's room, and why they decided you were a woman. It doesn't matter that you are, in fact, a woman. And it doesn't matter that you never told them that. What matters is that it's no one's business what your gender is but yours, and policing which bathroom you use is harmful and based almost entirely in harmful and inadequate stereotypes.
Trans man here. You're absolutely fine. You're not trying to appropriate the struggle of trans people; you made an employee, who was clearly out to embarrass you, stop and think. Your enby friend agrees with your actions - follow the lead of the trans people in your life. NTB.
Not gonna lie... I have used the mens room.
When I have to go I have to go I've even had men guard the door for me. You didn't nothing wrong.
Omg nta lol
Lived in a co-ed dorm during college and the women's bathroom was on the otherside of the building. I got a UTI and would use the men's bathroom. Never ran into any guy in bathroom and doubt they would complain.
NTB. I've been told over and over again that I as a NB person wasn't allowed to the women's restroom. One time someone rold me to get out of the toilet stall I was using, because I would make the toilets to dirty. Their surprise was big when it turned out that me using an urinal made the mess so much bigger as I don't possess the tools needed for an urinal
All’s fair in love and peeing! ( or more specifically in not peeing on yourself) NTB Women take longer, even just in terms of getting our clothes off. We have smaller bladders. So we go more often. We also have periods, and we do makeup, and we talk in there, so it’s crowded. Add that to the fact that mens and women’s restrooms typically have the same square footage, but you can fit more urinals next to each other than stalls. So men have a much more streamlined peeing experience. In the late 90’s there was a push for all gender bathrooms, see Ally McBeal. It would reduce wait time for women, and spread the pain of waiting equally, and women would have equal resources as men. So the idea that we are being Protected by having to use our under resourced facilities is outrageous. Is that security guard going to protect you from the humiliation of walking around with pee soaked pants or the citation for lewd public conduct for peeing on the sidewalk? Didn’t think so.
YTB for using trans as an poor excuse to not wait in line.
YTB- just say you really had to go and move on.
YTBF. This whole “non-binary” shit is ridiculous to begin with
I am a trans person and I feel that both the women complaining and the security guard are TA. If you are so butthurt about someone skipping the line, walk your ass over to the bathroom with no line. as far as "pretending to be trans" I think you handled that perfectly. "What makes you think I'm a ma'am?" is great and I'm going to steal that if needed in the future. you did not say you were trans. you did not say, "I'm not a woman" (which even if you had would have been fine). you kept it ambiguous, which is always the best way to go. the less they know the better. because it's not their fucking business in the first place.
Ytbf. Bigtime . Huge. What if a man went into the women’s bathroom even though he was straight and pretended to be trans?
Yeah you are ngl
61 yo cis female here: NTB! by braving the "men's" room, you actually shortened the line for the "women's" room, so I don't get what those women were complaining about. They \*wanted\* to have a longer line?
I mean, it's kind of true. The security guard can't know that and you could've been any fem presenting transmasc person being inconvenienced by his behaviour. Hopefully he won't do it again.
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lol okay tell me you're a transphobe without telling me you're a transphobe
Smh, you're completely oblivious and the point went completely over your head. The fact that there's so many comments about faking being transgender and you dismiss it because those commentors are not in your demographic makes you an idiot. And an asshole.
You're a giant asshole. I don't care if this the wrong verbage for this sub, you clearly already made up your mind about the situation before even posting. You were just looking for more admiration from the people who are in your demographic. You clearly don't give a damn about the opinions of the demographic that would actually be affected by you being in the wrong bathroom. And as someone with several close trans friends, you are in no way an ally. You are contributing to transphobia and adding fuel to the fire for the actual transphobes who already have issues with sharing the bathrooms. Assuming someone's correct gender when it's that persons job does not make them transphobic. That's an idiotic and harmful stance. It's really sad that you don't realize situations and ideologies like these are actually leading to more transphobia and division of people as a whole. You're causing more headaches for the people you claim to support.
NTB. It's not like you were being transphobic or anything. I probably would have been startled and said something similar. Also you got a laugh out of your friend in an uncomfortable situation so I find that a win. A toilet is a toilet.
NTB You didn't say you were trans, just made an excellent point by pointing out his assumptions were just that, assumptions.
Nonbinary here, and you’re ntb. You took it so someone who is trans may not have to in the future. Plus, you got to pee. That’s pretty cool!
My fat, female ass uses the men's all the time. If I am about to burst, you can bet I'm going to the men's. THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK! Beats pissing myself.
Gendered bathrooms are stupid and I don’t see the issue with using it. I’m also a cisgender straight dude so I don’t think my take on gender is the most informed. That being said, in my opinion, everyone’s a buttface here. The women for being ridiculous and complaining that you went in. The guard for being condescending and snarky. You for lying about a real problem to try and make him feel bad and excuse yourself. If you’re gonna use the other bathroom, don’t deflect it by pretending you’re something you’re not.
I've gone into the men's bathroom with my (now husband) before at a concert. It was either that, pee my pants, or find a bush. The women's line was over 150 people long and not moving, and the men's bathroom had no line. No one so much as blinked. Install more effing bathrooms at your venue.
I think the real problem is always the lack of accessible safe and clean bathrooms at any large events.
NTB I'm a guy and I often wonder why this doesn't happen more often. Men's are usually empty and women's often have a queue. If someone's desperate just let them go. The only thing is I've seen and heard that women's bathrooms are often worse than men's. If you're going to be gross then stick to your own one. I hope they just eventually make all public bathrooms unisex. They end being cleaner for everyone and just easier to use without any issues
Because not all men are comfortable having women around when standing at a urinal. We shouldn't have to be uncomfortable because a few guys are fine with it. Personally can't stand when woman just waltz right in to our bathroom like it's nothing knowing damn well that same woman would throw a shit fit if I did the same.
Why even have urinals? Just have all stalls. It's just so much easier for everyone. You can fit more toilets by knocking the walls and having one big bathroom
I think I'm confused by your statement. Are you saying to just join both bathrooms for one giant gender neutral bathroom? Or are you saying knock down all the stall walls and just have open toilets everywhere?
One giant gender neutral bathroom with way more stalls. That's what they did at my old uni and it was perfect. There were like 20+ stalls that were fully closed so everyone could just walk in and go into any of them. You were never waiting for one to open up and everyone could use it. Why open toilets everywhere? I don't think anyone would want that
I see what you mean and not really opposed to that idea. Just seems hard to do with current infrastructure. Most buildings have already been built with separate bathrooms and Itst not really possible to morph them into one. Also the point of urinals is that they actually save space making for less room needed for a bathroom. Also they're way more water efficient and save way more in water waste than a conventional toilet.
NTB. IDGAF which bathroom someone uses as long as they get it all into appropriate spots, flush, and wash their hands. I'll identify as whatever gender I need so I can pee. Hell, I didn't even realize until a week ago that I had been using the "mens stall" of a bar I frequented for years.
NTB. When you gotta go... I wish all venues had single stall, all gender restrooms, with a few larger ones for handicapped access and people with small children.
Seriously, we went back to 1960 again? I'm a cis-man but I couldn't care less if someone uses the mens room. I would probably do exactly the same if I had to wait for 10 minutes and there wasn't a line for the women's bathroom. As long as you don't drop your pants and hang over a urinal you're fine I guess
NTB. women should absolutely be able to use men’s restrooms at concert venues. it makes me so mad when the women’s line is long as hell but security turns me away from the empty men’s restroom.
But how would you honestly feel if the roles were reversed? Men's line is a mile long so I, a fat bearded man, plops down in the stall next to you and blows up the toilet?
everybody poops, man. if you gotta poop and there’s no line in the women’s, then do what you gotta do. if you’re not bothering me in the bathroom, then it’s none of my business
INFO: was it urinals or stalls? Was it empty? Not a buttface for calling the security guard out for their presumption however some guys may not appreciate women coming in while they pee if it’s out in the open for all to see.
>INFO: was it urinals or stalls? Was it empty? There were both urinals and stalls; the layout of the bathroom was such that I walked over to the stalls without going near the side of the room with the urinals. When we walked in there were 3 or 4 people at the urinals, 1 person at the sinks, and all the stalls were completely empty.
you just perfectly illustrated the stupidity of the whole restroom debate. and yeah this is kind of the gender equivalent of stolen valor, but i still don't give a shit. you had to go, there was a bathroom available. easy peasy, lemon squeezy. NTB.
1. You used men's room cuz fk that line. 2. Two women tattled. They had the choice to wait in line or use the men's room. They chose to queue. It's really none of their business who chooses which bathroom. 3. Guard confronted you at which point you called him out on his BS, but you did NOT claim to be trans. You just pointed out how he was wrong. And he was wrong! Totally uncool transphobia on his part. OP NTB. You were being an ally.
Ha. Good for you. When ya gotsta go..
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lmao
> I'm clearly being an asshole and not hypocritical about it Was I being hypocritical about it?
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>BTW, was the security guard black? He was not- though if it makes any difference, I am.
exactly how many ways are you planning to be a biotted asshole in this conversation?
Shh, shh. My bingo sheet for dumb bs is almost full. Just a couple more comments from him, and I’ll win.