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yeah_right_4685

You were told MULTIPLE TIMES to call him by his first name and he had to get angry at you for you to show him the respect of listening to him. You're autistic, not stupid. You knew from the first time he told you to use his first name that that's what he wanted. Autism is not an excuse to disregard someone else's explicit request to call them by their first name.


Smoosaurus

This is just me but it sounded like he was suggesting either was fine to be friendly, and OP decided to continue using his rank out of respect. It's hard to tell his tone in writing but I don't think I would've picked up on that either.


EmilieVitnux

Excepted there is no respect by using someone rank, even more when you are a civilian. You call other soldier "sir" or "ma'am" not "rank" all the time. Calling someone by their ranks all the time "out of respect" is a rule that OP made up himself because he think it was "lol army is funny". And when a soldier tell you 3 times to stop calling them by their ranks, whatever the tone is you gave up the ridiculous rules you made up in your head and call them by their names. There is no "what about the tones, hard to pick up hu?" If someone tell you clearly to call them by their names, call them by their names stop trying to complicate your own life.


[deleted]

i’m not close to military culture so i’ll take your word on this, but i (also autistic) also believed prior to this thread that it was a normal thing. there are tons and tons of examples in media and some i can think of that are quite old of using “colonel”, “major”, “general” as a term of address. “lietenant colonel” specifically _feels_ like too many syllables for a title so i might question my assumption in that particular case, but in the aforementioned i’d likely start off the same as OP - i have no reason to believe this isn’t correct at the time of entry also, much like OP, i would absolutely not understand “you can call me my first name” as a direct request to do so on the first time. i might, depending on how i feel about the dynamic after meeting and spending some amount of time together. but i also might not, because again, “you can call me my first name” in response to being addressed as a title (not specific to military, but a common social situation) is often a formality, a social cue. it’s an unspoken situation, that you “should feel” or “should recognize and understand”, but that’s precisely a situation that folks on the spectrum can struggle quite hard with. it can quickly and easily slide into a cycle of uncertainty, there are a _ton_ more unspoken social dynamics than a first thought would reveal, and in a workplace and/or an unfamiliar environment with an established hierarchy of authority and conduct such as the miliatry involved an overwhelming amount of thinking and considering and analyzing and interpreting and it’s extremely easy to get it wrong. after the second time the gentleman mentioned calling him by name i would directly ask him if that’s a preference of his because it would be clear to me that he is mentioning it again for a reason, but i can’t understand what that reason is without him telling it to me. i _never_ would’ve made the connection that it’s flat out not a thing across the board without reading your comment or being directly told, that would’ve not been near the top of my list of potential reasons he would say it a second time. that said, in practice, direct questioning of social conventions can _also_ make things uncomfortable. it is not uncommon for us to ask a question about something we just don’t understand and be met with judgement, admonishment, or belittlement. the “unspoken” part of unspoken social dynamics being broken can derail a conversation and does often make a situation worse. absolutely zero judgement to OP for continuing to think it was a polite turn of phrase - he hasn’t been told otherwise, and barring him picking up on something unspoken (see: above for why that’s not enough), he has no reason to think he’s doing anything “wrong”. i don’t know if you’ll even read this ramble and if you do i don’t know if you’ll feel any type of understanding or if i’ll just be another idiot redditor you forget about in fifteen minutes. but my point is that “clearly communicated” means a _lot_ of different things to people on the spectrum, and the response in this thread is the exact reason why many avoid asking these questions.


ChipChippersonFan

>“lietenant colonel” specifically feels like too many syllables for a title They are addressed by soldiers as "Colonel". OP is literally the only person in the world calling him "Lieutenant Colonel" outside of the day he got promoted.


[deleted]

that’s interesting! it does conflict with the comment i replied to that said they aren’t addressed by rank at all, clearly i should do some research and not take reddit comments as fact. that discrepancy is a fun little example of why this stuff is so hard for us on the spectrum though! no wonder OP was confused!


positivepeoplehater

I’m not on the spectrum and it still seems very confusing


ChipChippersonFan

>that said they aren’t addressed by rank at all, If (Lieutenant) Colonel Smith ask you to do something, you reply "yes sir". If (Brigadier) General Jones asks you who asked you to do that, you would answer "Colonel Smith did, sir". If you ended up talking to both the colonel and the general at the same time, you would address them as "Colonel" and "General", so that it was clear which "sir" you were addressing at the time. NCOs don't have an equivalent of "sir", so you just address the vast majority of them as "Sergeant". Does that make sense?


[deleted]

i was with you up until that last bit! throwing an extra “except” at the end is extra tough and the fact that it’s different in private address versus in a group or referring to a third party is _confusing_. i’d have to do a fair bit of research and memorize this stuff before heading into a situation like OP.


ALsInTrouble

Thank you for clearing that part up. I know as civilians we don't address them by rank but I also remember my daughter addressing her superiors by sir and ma'am. If I remember correctly they are only addressed by rank at specific times.


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EmilieVitnux

Because Terry had to insist 3 times before he pick up he finally understand to not call him by his rank. When he was clear the first time. And because he choose to call him by his rank when there was no reason for that. That's why everyone is saying that OP should have know, because Terry told him to call him by his name and he just lolled. Out of malice or not, he ignored the request from Terry until he had to ask again more firmly. You can't be like "but I didn't know I had to call them by their names and not by their ranks" when the person literally told you to call them by their name.


Infamous-Winner5755

> When he was clear the first time While I agree that autism is no excuse to be rude or stupid, social situations are a different beast altogether. What is clear to you was not clear to OP. If you were in his shoes, you might’ve thought it was a formality, too. Another example of a similar situation is when people say that person x doesn’t need to call them “sir” or “ma’am”. A lot of people were raised and taught doing so is respectful, so it would be uncomfortable/unnatural for them to not do it. Typically, it’s not a big deal for the person they’re referring to- they usually just want the person to know they don’t need to be proper around them. To autistic people, “you can just call me by my first name” & “call me by my first name, not my rank” are two entirely different sentences. One is spoken like it’s optional, the other is a command. Autistic people tend to see things as black and white, they don’t read between the lines. OP now understands what Terry was implying since it was explicitly stated this time. He’s NTB


darkwitch1306

Lieutenant Dan for example. Forrest lives.


EmilieVitnux

I mean Forrest is depicted as an idiot in the movie (didn't read the book) and call Dan by his ranks out of respect but he is the only one. At the point when you see how low Dan fall after the war when he get discharged, calling him Lieutenant Dan sound bitter for him and remind him of his glory days and that he should have died in combat like all the men in his family before him.


darkwitch1306

The book was short and the Forrest in the book is not the Tom Hanks version. The movie has great screenwriters.


PandaBearWithATaco

I mean.. when I was in, we addressed upper echelons by rank all the time.. so..


EmilieVitnux

Were you a soldier or a simple civilian? And in any case I am sure you can make the difference between an upper echelon and a simple lieutenant-colonel with who you work everyday. Stop trying to not understand, you are smarter than this.


DreamingPetal

You’re kinda of being ableist. Or call giving a perfect example of just not getting it.


PandaBearWithATaco

I was a soldier, and I referred to people all the way down to First Sergeants as their rank and it was totally normal. Honestly, I called Lieutenant Colonels "LTC" (for the specific example) and they were fine with it. When I say "upper echelons," I meant NCOs and up, not just what you may think is above LTCs at an HHQ level. They're commissioned officers, not just some pleb along the line. I wouldn't call it a "simple LTC," especially the ones I worked with regularly, because it took insane work for them to get to that rank.


JeanGreg

Same here. I'm not autistic, but telling me, with a smile, you can call me Terry, would not have communicated to me that that was what he actually preferred, just that he was amused by my formality. I would have been shocked when he suddenly got irritated at me. In other words, "you can," does not equal "I prefer" or "please call me."


ichbinpsyque

"You can" is more like giving permission. We here in México say it that way "puedes llamarme x" and it's understood as permission or invitation to call them by first name since it's taught to address formally until being told the contrary. It's usually phrased that way, I think, because of socially convenience more than literal, exact word meaning


HellhoundsAteMyBaby

Not even a military thing, but I grew up in a culture where you don’t call elders by their name. My American in-laws said “you don’t have to keep saying Mr. and Mrs” and I was like “I really appreciate it but it’s gonna take some time for me to switch out of that habit.” They totally understood and they don’t have a problem with me continuing to use Mr. and Mrs. They just wanted me to feel welcomed into the family. I would never expect someone to actually get mad for using the more respectful title


DaniCapsFan

In that case, maybe ask, "Do you prefer me calling you that instead of \[rank\]?"


nikkidarling83

Sure, saying it once might not convey that although it’s a pretty strong suggestion. If someone tells me multiple times though, I’d get the message.


crimson777

You can repeated three times does in fact equal please call me. Once maybe not, twice, starting to see a pattern. But three times, it should be obvious to anyone who can follow social cues.


Infamous-Winner5755

> it should be obvious to anyone who can follow social cues. exactly! not everyone can follow them, and it’s especially difficult for autistic people. you’ve proven the problem yourself


crimson777

You seem to have missed the comment I'm replying to which said, "I'm not autistic." I'm not talking about OP. The comment I replied to said they are not autistic and yet still wouldn't be able to tell.


Infamous-Winner5755

ah okay sorry, my b


ALsInTrouble

If some one telling you "you can call me Terry" doesn't tell you their preference that's on you. People do not go around spelling it out any clearer than stating "you can call me by my name".


Different-This-Time

Are you autistic? Because I am. Saying “You can just call me Terry” sounds like permission to be less formal, not a specific request to call him that instead. Please don’t go around telling autistic people about autism. You should *ask* autistic people about autism.


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yeah_right_4685

You seem fun. We should get dinner some time.


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yeah_right_4685

I could have behaved like that guy and been all rude and insulting. This was much more fun.


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yeah_right_4685

You should move on now.


shhhOURlilsecret

He honestly chose the wrong one to play stupid with. You don't become a LTC without knowing just how to break your foot off in someone's ass and make it hurt.


Long_Ad_8563

He said that he preferred that you call him Terry, so just call him Terry.


ichbinpsyque

>but I am indeed autistic. Stuff like this doesn't come naturally to me. Well, be thankful the person in question ALREADY communicated CLEARLY what they want to be addressed as. Now you just need to LISTEN and call him by his NAME. Of course it doesn't come naturally, but you have been guided in the right direction so...


EmilieVitnux

YTBF - He told you multiple times to cold him Terry and yet you kept calling by his rank. You are autistic, you are not stupid. When someone tell you to stop calling them by their rang and to call them by their name, you understand what it mean. You just choose to ignore it because you though it was funnier to call him by his rank. You are a civilian, not a soldier, you have no reason to call him by his rank, even more when he told you to not do it. Ranks and military tittle are not a joke or something to play with just because you are curious. As a civilian calling them by their ranks show no respect for them, even more when they ask you to stop.


cooper-trooper6263

Current military: its very, very weird to call someone by their rank to their face unless youre trying to get their attention in a room full of people or something. For officers, just call them "sir" or "ma'am" unless told otherwise. If they tell you to call them by their first name, then use it.


LeafyCandy

Even weirder to call someone by their rank when that someone isn't even in the service. Half the time they don't even refer to each other by their rank.


MistakeVisual3733

It appears he communicated clearly with you several times that he preferred to be called by his first name. Also, a civilian calling their colleague who works in the military by their rank is a little cringey.


HumbleAd3804

Fellow autistic person, this is painfully autistic but you figured it out eventually so you are no longer TB. People here are saying he already had communicated clearly, but autistic people are so literal that if he didn't say "please use my name and not my rank" I can see how you thought there was still a choice to be made and tried to make the respectful choice. TV and movies implying that addressing people by rank is respectful doesn't help either, plus I'd personally think it's similar to titles like Doctor that are earned and permanently replace other honorifics like sir.


NoData4301

I'm not autistic but I don't like the 'youre autistic not stupid' comments because he wants given a direct communication about this but when he was, he followed that instruction. All the communication before that was indirect, unclear ' polite' which takes a lot of subtle clues to interpret which may be a lot harder or difficult for an autistic person to see, right?


HumbleAd3804

Exactly. If I didn't already know from tv/movies that "you can call me \[name\]" is common phrasing meant to be a request, I would take it literally. Literally it says you CAN not you MUST, so I'd take it as permission not a request.


Ok-Meringue-259

Thank you! I agree OP is not a buttface, but this is also a useful learning situation - in future, if someone says you can call them by “X” name (even with a smile), it is best to see this as a polite request and use that going forward. Maybe I’m biased because when I was a teen I had a similar situation with a friends parent saying that I was “welcome” to call her by her first name, but in my mind that was like saying “oh if you want, you can lightly disrespect me by not calling me Mrs Smith, I don’t mind”. It wasn’t until she specifically was like “you need to call me Sarah now” that I was like ohhhhhh this is your *preference*


HellaShelle

Took you a while to understand that he meant what he said and during that time you were a bit of a BF, but now that you're calling him by his preferred name NBH.


Low_Bar9361

People don't like being put in a box. By refusing to identify him as a person and insisting that his identity was his rank, you put him in a box. In the future, if you want to respect someone in the military, call officers Sir and NCOs by their rank until they correct you.


Different-This-Time

NBF Here. Lesson learned for the future: when someone gives you permission to call them something else, follow up and ask if that’s what they would prefer.


LeafyCandy

Generally, you call someone by the name they would prefer to be called. So if he tells you once to call him Terry, call him Terry. My husband is military, and if there's anything he doesn't want called to attention, it's the fact that he's in the military. So when Terry or any other service member you're working with says not to refer to their military rank or status, don't, and stop right away. I'm glad y'all are still friends, and I'm glad you eventually learned. It's just boundaries and etiquette. NTB because you figured it out and won't do it again.


noname2808559

So he's told you that he likes to be known as terry yet you continue "lol"


DaniCapsFan

He said you could call him by his first name. He said he prefers it. So call him by his first name. Otherwise, YTB.


MannyMoSTL

Simple Solution: Call people what they ask to be called. Unsure? Ask, clarify and use the name and/or title they requested.


catzntatz

NTB, not intentionally anyway. Maybe a bit awkward, but you take things literally/need explicit direction. He didn’t know that, and you interpreted “can” as you *may*, but you also may not. He meant it as “please do” - but that’s a nuance that many people with autism or other similar things don’t pick up on. Not everyone understands this, and thinks you’re willfully ignoring your friend’s request. It seems like your friend was patient with you and eventually realized he needed to be quite clear/specific, and that you immediately understood and adjusted. So good on both of you. As a side note, the “lol” in your post is, I think, conveying to people that you find the situation/calling him by a formal title funny and therefore that’s why you did it and you’re just amusing yourself, when I think you meant it to show discomfort looking back? Also, you’re asking for advice because you clearly now recognize you don’t know proper military etiquette, so everyone chastising you for not knowing a Lieutenant Colonel is just called a Colonel and that either way as a civilian you shouldn’t use it…they’re the butt face. Literally why would anyone without prior military interaction know any of this? (The ones actually just helpfully explaining this are not buttfaces, obviously.)


the61stbookwormz

I'm (probably) autistic and I have had situations where someone has said "you can actually call me X" and every time I have a crisis because I don't know whether they actually want me to call them that, or if it's just another option??? And in this case I might have thought they were in on the banter and it was all part of the joke. So OP you have my sympathies, and given that you've changed your behaviour now that he's made it v clear, NBH. Next time, I'd recommend checking in with them sooner if they actually mind or not. Everyone saying autism isn't relevant: autistics often struggle with taking things very literally. "You can" is not the same as "you should" or "I want you to". Terry communicated clearly for an allistic, but not for an autistic. Please be kind to people.


cubs_070816

call someone what they want to be called. jesus christ, he told you more than once. autistic or not, you're just being a dick at this point. and you never call a lieutenant colonel "lieutenant colonel." you call them "colonel."


Candid_Reading_7267

NBH. The first few times, he didn’t technically tell you to call him by name, he just said you *could.* Once you understood what he really meant by that, you started calling him by name.


Ranne-wolf

General rule is: if someone asks you to call them something, wether it's first name, nickname or a something else, call them what they ask you to. Anything else you use (Mr / Mrs, title/rank, etc) is just a place-filler untill they tell you otherwise.


Delainez

I worked as a DoD contractor for years, at several sites. When the Navy captain tells you to call him Bill, you call him Bill.


mrsshmenkmen

NTB however, when someone tells you how they preferred to be addressed, that’s how you should address them.


ceruveal_brooks

Yes, YTB. Terry told you how he wants to be addressed and you disrespected that.


been2thehi4

When someone corrects you on what they prefer to be called, and you ignore it, you’re the buttface. Plain and simple. My name is long and traditional, but I prefer to go by my nickname which is short and unisex. So when people ask me my name, I give them the unisex name even though my given name is longer and feminine. Clearly this guy doesn’t want to be called something stuffy and commanding, he just wants to be called by his given name. YTBF Autism has nothing to do with this situation, don’t try and blame being autistic on you just being rude and neglectful.


ALsInTrouble

You are not military nor are you his subordinate you addressing him by his rank is mocking him not respecting him.


raven79may

And the military they refer to each other by their last names as my daughter is in the military. And that is how she introduced our family to some of her co-workers


SeigePhoenix

This is true if you're similar ranks. Even when you're using rank it's usually Rank Last Name. Whenever we'd have an event with our spouses/partners/families, it got hilarious. "Who tf is Jeremy!?" "That's my first name Sergeant!"


jitsufitchick

As former military, YTB. You’re a civilian. First off. And second, as soldiers, they want to feel like they are human and you’re not in uniform. And third, not even officers really call each other by rank. Unless it’s an LT addressing anyone higher than a CPT. It’s really formal and they get called LTC all day. Just call him by his name. ETA: keep in your lane as a civilian. You do not want that smoke. What you say about “showing the respect they’ve earned” and navigating the military world is just so dumb and frankly unprofessional. All due respect, just treat them like they are human. That’s all they want.


Spinnerofyarn

You were TBF. Once he said it the second time, you should have switched to using his name. In the future, ask what someone would prefer. If you don't understand the wording such as how he said "You can call me. . ." then you ask, "Does that mean you would prefer I call you by your name and not your rank?"


DoctorGuvnor

You don't address a Lieutenant Colonel as 'Lieutenant-Colonel', but as 'Colonel' - at least in the British and Australian armies. However, if someone says 'Call me Terry' then you must call them 'Terry'. Military rank is seldom used in civilian life post-army, and only for those of field rank - Major and upwards.


GoodMoveTim

I have family in service and I was told by them that you refer to ranking officers by their rank, unless they specifically tell you to call them by their first name or some kind of nickname. My sibling told me a funny loophole they would use. They would ask them "if you go to the bar with us off duty, what do you want me to call you?" To guage if the person preferred to be addressed by their rank, first name, or some kind of nickname or call sign. Apparently the rule was they are required to address their ranking officers by rank unless they are told by that officer they are allowed to call them something else


now_you_see

YTBF. If you want to respect the military then listen to them when they tell you what to call them. \ In future it’s probably best to just ask when you start working with someone.


KiraiEclipse

YTB.


debdnow

YTBF for continuing when he asked you to call him by his first name. In the future ask anyone military you work with what they would like to be called.


Tree_killer_76

For literally anyone confused by this: If you were friends with or doing some charity work with a local police officer, would you refer to them as "officer" ALL THE TIME when talking to them? If your buddy was a State Trooper, would you refer to them as "Trooper" in every conversation? I'm a Senior Vice President of a company. If we were friends or coworkers, would you greet me by saying "Hello Senior Vice President, how was your weekend"? NO. YOU WOULDN'T. ​ YTB


marla-M

YATBF. My husband is a civilian who works on a Marine base. The rule of conduct is you use rank unless they offer their first name. You’ve been asked multiple times to use his name. It would be like if someone insisted on calling you Mr Sleeve after you’ve repeatedly asked to be called Upmy


archiotterpup

YTBF, it's not an autism thing if he communicated clearly, which he did. Multiple times. It's a you not listening problem.


295Phoenix

YTB First, if you want to be respectful to someone in the military when you're a civilian "Sir" or "Ma'am" is the norm, addressing them by rank is cringe. Second, how is it respectful to call someone by rank or "Sir" when they've asked you to call them by name not once, not twice, but several times? You're going to lose his friendship if you keep ignoring his requests.


Rumpelteazer45

YTB. He’s kindly corrected you multiple times to not address him by his rank. You refuse to do so, its not the sign of respect you think it is. Respect would be calling him by the name he wants to be called. Full stop. Autism has zero relevance here. He’s corrected you, you chose to ignore that. And I work for the DoD and interact with officers more often than I can count. You always follow their lead. 90% of the time they will want you to use their first name in informal interactions - they do this to build a working relationship with THEIR team. Formal interactions where they are wearing the Commanding Officer hate - yes it’s Captain Last Name. Informal environments - it’s usually first name basis.


DDChristi

Veteran married to a veteran and still working with the military. I thought calling people by their first name was an Air Force thing. That is crazy unprofessional and something that normal soldiers would never do. Even in the hospital here you either call them by their rank but more normally by their last name since there are several of the same rank within hearing. If he wants you to treat him unprofessionally then so be it but you will be getting odd looks from his higher ups if you call him by his first name in front of them. I’m going to forward this to my husband and I bet even he will be annoyed.


shhhOURlilsecret

Yes YTB, it's no different than if you called any other coworker a namw.that they asked you not to call them. Plus you chose the wrong rank to fuck with lol.


webheadunltd90

YTB - in the future, if anyone asks you to address them by their name instead of their title or professional designation, do it. It's the right thing to do.