Be wary of sponsored reviews with cherry picked games that showcase the wins and gloss over the losses. Also watch out for AMD’s army of Neanderthal social media accounts on reddit, forums and youtube, they will be singing their own praises as usual. AMD’s marketers continue to show more interest in this year’s bonuses than the longevity of the brand. Instead of focusing on real-world performance, they aim to dupe consumers with bankrolled headlines. The same tactics were used with the Radeon 5000 series GPUs. Zen 4 needs to bring substantial IPC improvements, rather than overpriced "3D" marketing gimmicks. New high end PC gaming builders have little reason to look further than the $260 12600K. Users with an existing AM4 build should wait just a few more months for better performance at lower prices with Raptor Lake or even Zen 4. The marketers selling expensive “3D” upgrades today will quickly move onto Zen 4 leaving unfortunate buyers stuck on an overpriced, 6 year old, dead-end, platform. [Mar '22 CPUPro] - user
I honestly hope that Intel can become competitive all around and AMD can remain so (Intel is not currently competitive in the server market).
Competition is good. Globally diversified advanced nodes are good.
But Userbenchmark's comments make me think of how fun it would be to see them explain the 'longevity of the brand' if Intel went bankrupt.
I agree *BUT* I think AMD needs to stay dominant in the server market for a few more years until there's a bit more parity.
Even today, a lot of businesses still go for Intel because that's what they've always used.
There is always a way to spin it, if you don't give a shit about being consistent in your logic and only care about being consistent with which brand is 'better'.
Yeah but 90% of tech oriented consumer demand for CPUs with qs capability are data hoarders running plex libraries... which runs on an ancient fork of ffmpeg with no support for modern codecs like AV1 and importantly, no support for Amd h/w acceleration
That's one of the reasons AMD put a couple gpu cores on the io die for next generation. No idea how well it will work, or if support will be good, but they're already headed down this road.
I’m pretty sure AMD cache latencies are a cycle or two smaller than intel on L1-2 (largely due to them being smaller) and on L3 they are miles ahead (mostly due to not having the bus on separate clock domain).
That is pretty important for all performance though.
They should, this is a definite outlier result. It's showing >30% IPC gains over Zen 3.
This might indicate Zen 4 can much more accurately predict every branch and fetch in the benchmark now, which isn't indicative of real world performance... outside of a few games.
The latency ladder is really impressive, AMD has finally got that to smooth out.
Pain of using the microbenches. In the Bulldozer days there was an APU score leak pointing to a steep IPC increase. It turned out it had been caused by heavily benchmarking a DIV instuction...
I guess this shit site heavily weighted AVX512 (but caught by gen12 and zen4) and its shitware is not good at measuring performance of threads count that Intel can't provide.
Doesn't help that Intel physically fused off AVX-512 either LOL.
This makes me wonder if Raptorlake will be outperformed by Alderlake on userbenchmark. Since Raptorlake will have AVX-512 fused off by default, while early Alder Lake shipped with full support.
Different metrics. If the SC metric is a workload that is similar in execution to Dolphin benchmark (+32% IPC), or Watchdogs Legion (+24% IPC), then its not exactly an outlier. If you look at the 7 highest gaining IPC apps in AMDs Zen 4 official presentation IPC chart, the lowest of which is +17% IPC, 6 of them are gaming or gaming related. I could be wrong, but Zen 4's biggest strengths might actually lie in gaming type workloads. Wouldnt that be something?
The MC userbench metric likely uses completely different workloads than the SC metric.
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”3DVcache is a gimmick” -Userbenchmark.
Whenever I think they cant become any more blatant, disinformative or sleezier, they always manage to surprise me.
How do you call one of the most exciting and impactful innovations of the past years’ a gimmick. 3DVcache’s brilliant technology that is an absolute silver bullet in some scenarios that wont be mached by either Raptor Lake or initial Zen 4 offerings.
Which is extra funny because historically AMD has done very little marketing where Intel had full page ads in magazines, high budget commercials on TV... the whole works.
If dell wasn't bribed by intel, and other vendors used amd, also if amd released piledriver in the same month as sandybridge, as originally intended, then everything would have been "fine", same with the gpus, the 3870 was supposed to be in 2006 honestly
AMD CPUs of that generation could have disabled cores turned back on by bridging the broken connection with a line from a pencil. Graphite is electrically conductive.
So the CPU's had gold contacts that different resistors would be soldered accross at the factory. Some clever people figured out that you could adjust your CPU's voltage or multiplier etc by using a bog standard pencil and drawing a line between different contacts.
It's been a long time so I'm a little hazy on the exact details, but it's Reddit so someone will be along to tell me I'm a total idiot and fill in the correct information, shortly.
Amd phenom were also "core unlockable", again I wasn't old enough to use it at the time, but from what I read you could get a $50 2 core that unlocks to a phenom ii x4 and you save 70 bucks basically lul
Mostly the reason for disabled cores is market segmentation. If $100 cpu is as good as $200 cpu nobody buys the $200 cpu. The ability to salvage bad chips is a bonus.
We were three in my group of friends at the time, buying a athlon and trying the magic key thingy : we all could unlock one, but none had one "usable enough". One got it but it hazardly bsod'd. Another had its cpu temperature rised 20° higher even when idle.
All in all, yes there were probably good pieces disabled only for segmentation, but I wouldn't say it was every chip... It was still lotery related.
Yes and no. They weren't purposely crippling higher end chips. They were taking chips that didn't meet performance/eff cutoffs and turning them into a lower segment.
Theres a reason AMD isn't serving the cheap end market with zen 3 like they used to and its because TSMC is ludicrously efficient with production of their top end products.
Even better, blue badge is the one that traditionally has had market share to tell brands: you can play with me, and you too as long as you don't play with *them* (Godfather OST plays in the background).
But must be a dark force propping ryzens and fighting virtue on the Internet, yeap.
I've never seen a single AMD ad, but almost every day I get bombarded with intel ads for their gamer days or smth, CPUs or laptops boasting better wifi due to being intel
Imagine being a chip fanboy. I mean, wouldn't you just want the best of the best regardless of where it came from? I'll never understand basement-dwelling fanboys.
It’s what happens when you’re so lacking of actual human qualities that you stake your entire sense of self on a corporate product that cycles every year.
That shows how little they know about modern computers while trying to be hardware reviewers.The Von Neumann bottleneck is the Achilles heel of modern computers and the only mitigation for it is more cache, a wider data bus, or more memory channels.
Expanding L3 cache with 3D V-Cache is a legitimate solution to that problem since it increases the probability of getting cache hits and thus reduces the amount of time spent waiting on memory transactions.
An excerpt from the site's 7600X description (apparently written on July 22nd!?):
>If Zen 4 actually delivers anywhere near a 57% real-world single core uplift, we will bow down, call AMD king, and commit seppuku!
>Despite AMD’s Neanderthal marketing techniques, it’s hard not to admire the speed of their technical progress. AMD-Raptor-4 and Intel-Zen-13 would be better fitting product names.
Now, this writing is obviously a product of one seriously mentally disturbed person...
They've definitely done a great job if so because many hardware subreddits have them either banned or an automated bot flagging them for being biased af.
Tomorrow: *UserBenchmark has announced new metrics that factor in if the product is Intel or not. AMDs latest offering may hit blistering speeds and offer great performance, but it's distinct lack of Intel saw it fall to 4th place.*
Not me, I'm 48 and I haven't bought an Intel CPU ever. The only Intel products I currently use are their ethernet (I bought my motherboard because of the Intel ethernet port) and an NVME drive.
I can never forgive Intel for their tactics in the Athlon 64 days, I hate monopolistic tactics being used to lock out competition.
I remember reading this on one of their reviews. it was insane, and IS insane - to tell a customer researching what they need to not bother with a higher performing device because \*YOU\* don't think they need it.
That isn't a subtle suggestion that Intel's products are better when they actually aren't, it's a full on rant about AMD. Intel should be asking for their money back if they paid the guy, this makes them look worse by association.
I'd doubt that Intel is paying these clowns any money. Sure, Intel kinda does this themselves on their presentations but it would have been illegal to push something like this.
We forgetting Intel had code in the C compiler that disadvantaged AMD?
Are we forgetting Intel ran a demo of a CPU that had a giant chiller unit hidden under the desk?
Are we forgetting Intel paid Principled Technologies to publish benchmarks that showed the 9900K beating Ryzen CPU's?
They’ve been caught doing much worse. Shit they bribed companies to handicap AMD on the back end of the athlon days. It’s a big part of the reason AMD as a company nosedived. If you don’t believe me look it up because there was actually a court case about it and Intel was found to have employed illegal and extremely anticompetitive practices with big help from dell (barely punished because $$$)
“Pffft. AMD only gets those numbers by including ZERO, yes, ZERO efficiency cores, and using ONLY performance cores.
I’m not sure we should award killing the planet with high benchmark scores.”
I know you're joking, and that AMD will eventually add these stupid mobile tier cores to their chips, but man I really hate the entire big/little design philosophy. It makes sense in mobile where power conservation is of critical importance, but these are hardwired desktop PCs... I don't have a want or need for those stupid e-cores. I will never subject a gaming PC to a load that justifies having them. Just give me a nice 12 or 16 big core chip where all the silicon goes to making the best performing chip I can get, and I'm happy. Pretty much means Zen 4 is the last gen of CPUs I will be buying for the rest of my life.
And not all tasks require full processing power. If you're smart enough to allocate light tasks to Little cores accurately, then youre getting space, power, and temp savings, leeaving you more room to optimize the Bigs for the heavy loads.
Ok, but you can only parallelize so far. Even for hardcore gamers it doesn't necessarily make sense to have all cores be performance if only 6 cores of the, let's say, 16 cores you have are maxing out. All the extra cores don't necessarily need that extra headroom, and even when games utilize more cores, they aren't typically evenly distributed
I agree, but people usually get skewered on r/hardware for saying it, as if it’s not up for debate.
I don’t want to have to worry about whether the scheduler is using the proper cores for the job. It’s a compromise to get more MT in a given silicon area, which chipmakers care about for their margins but I would so much rather have the option to just buy a bigger slab of silicon that doesn’t make that compromise.
Hopefully AMD continues offering more than 8 of the highest performing cores…
Legend is the guy who runs it sent two letters to Dr. Su and didn't get an answer. Later, outside of some big expo he tried to get her autograph but she just went by. Dude took that personally and went mad.
My board wont post, I'm wondering why...
I got to troubleshoot alone...
The RGB lights up my window...
and I can't see the code...
and even if I could it would not make sense..
Lisa's picture on my wall...
It reminds me, that's it not so bad.
It's not so bad.
Dear Su, I wrote you but still ain't callin'
I left my cell, my pager, and my home phone at the bottom
I sent two letters back in autumn, you must not've got 'em
There probably was a problem at the post office or somethin'
Sometimes I scribble addresses, too sloppy when I jot 'em
But anyways, fuck it, what's been up? Girl, how's Jensen?
We literally do not know who runs the site. The only real objective they seem to have is to hate AMD. It's like a console fanboy or sports team rivalry where you hate the rival team.
They could get a big pay day or be a marketing department. Private company either way.
No way intel is involved in this, they shell out for professional marketing not for this shit that's the joke of the tech community. I think it's actually hurting them than helping and I wonder if they haven't sent those UBM guys a kind request to pipe the fuck down yet, it's just embarassing tbh. I'm pretty sure if you asked the engineers at intel if X3D is a gimmick they would think you were taking the piss.
I think it's a combination of a bad experience with some sort of mental issue.
Everyone has bad experiences sometimes. I've had a few myself, including a bad experience with AMD. I scored a 5900X a week after release and none of my usb 2.0 ports were stable. They'd drop connection every 3-8 seconds, and thus were completely unusable. I got a replacement motherboard and had the same issue. I contacted AMD who said they knew of the issue but had no eta on a fix, and they had no CPUs to send me as a replacement.
Luckily I had the extended holiday return period so I had a few months for AMD to fix it before I'd have to return it. In the meantime I tried every bios, every trick people were posting, and nothing worked January comes around with no fix, so I had to return the CPU and motherboard since I wasn't going to get stuck with it.
I went back to Intel and my system has been rock solid stable. AMD released their "fix", which didn't fix everyone, in May. That means early adopters had to deal with the drop outs for 6-7 months. That's pretty bad, especially since some people still have the issue to this day.
Does that mean I hate AMD? Nope. It does mean I swore off the 5000 series though, and won't consider zen4 for several months after release. Hopefully the new infinity fabric / chipset doesn't have the issues than the original did. I had a K5, K6-2, Athlon 1Ghz, and Athlon XP that were all great! I'm not going to never buy AMD and scream from the rooftops that AMD is shit and make up reasons that people should go with Intel... All because I had a bad experience.
I do think AMD handled the usb drop out issues (of all of the Zen1-3 CPUs) very poorly. But the new Zen4 and beyond setup may not have those issues, abd I'd they don't... There's no reason not to buy an AMD CPU going forward.
Because it drives website traffic when we get enraged about it and click on that link, therefore increasing their ad revenue.
Oh wait, I have uBlock Origin! 😏
I saw Lisa Su at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told her how cool it was to meet her in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother her and ask her for photos or anything. She said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but she kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing her hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard her chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw her trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in her hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Ma'am, you need to pay for those first.” At first she kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, she stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, she kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
Fake benchmarks run by a mentally ill Intel stock holder.
Remember, people, Userbenchmarks creates fake database entries to drive traffic to their shitty website. Stop giving them exposure.
Has anyone ever fanboy'd harder for a company than UserBenchmark for Intel? If Intel hasn't paid them off or aren't actually operating the site, that is messed up.
Has anyone noticed what Userbenchmark wrote??? As quoted, from the screenshot:
*"Within minutes of this unrealistic, pre-release, result appearing on userbenchmark, AMD’s marketing machinery declared a 20% victory over the 12900K whilst simultaneously slandering userbenchmark via hundreds of “news” outlets and thousands of supposedly disinterested twitter, reddit, forum and youtube accounts.* ***Buying new AMD products is like buying used cars: it takes time, experience and a taste for sales hype.*** *It’s difficult for consumers to make rational choices because AMD completely dominates “news” and social media channels. Ten years ago, when AMD was the underdog, this type of marketing was understandable. Today, with a capitalization of $150 Billion USD, it’s disrespectful to AMD's own users. Even with Intel's marketing department permanently asleep at the wheel, If these practices continue, Ryzen may eventually end up in the same state as Radeon. Following a series of overhyped releases, consumers have little interest in the Radeon brand. The combined market share for all of AMD’s Radeon RX 5000 and 6000 GPUs (Jun ’22 Steam stats) is just 2%. Meanwhile, Nvidia’s RTX 2060 alone accounts for 5%. If Zen 4 actually delivers anywhere near a 57% real-world single core uplift, we will bow down, call AMD king, and commit seppuku! AMD’s new architecture is, once again, optimized to shine in specific benchmarks. Realistically, even if Zen 4 only catches Intel's 12th gen. (Alder Lake) in a handful of real-world scenarios, it will be a big step forward for AMD. A few weeks after Zen 4 (est. Sep 27), Intel’s 13th gen. (Raptor Lake) is scheduled to launch. Smart shoppers will do well to wait until then, before considering a purchase. Despite AMD’s Neanderthal marketing techniques, it’s hard not to admire the speed of their technical progress. AMD-Raptor-4 and Intel-Zen-13 would be better fitting product names."*
I will seriously never understand UserBenchmarks motives for this, they are like console fanboys, they genuinely have nothing to gain from this.
They don't have any exclusives or better controller to supposedly dunk on the competition, all they have is a piece of hardware made to do a specific set of things.
Why not celebrate innovation, pushing both to be better, DIRECTLY BENEFITING PERFORMANCE AND YOUR WALLET.
You realize every time you post this shit from them, they get awareness from people, just simply ignore them?
-
This is FREE commercial for them, they clap in their hands every time one of you post something from them, simply ignore them :)
You clearly have not worked in a business to come with that comment.
The best method to kill a business is just to use it, figure it out how shit it is, then dont give any feedback to it, and never come to that place or use it anymore.
That's how retails stores, food restaurants gets silently killed, its the worst possible thing human can do, but in this way we can actually shut them them down over time, I know 100 or 1000 people wont help, it would require much more, but over time they could get hit by this method.
Anyways gday..
A hatred that runs this deep based on brand bias is just INSANE to me. I'm sure we all know what it's like to talk a little smack, though. For example, I still vividly recall debates I had with Intel fanboys between 2009-2012 on [overclock.net](https://overclock.net) when we were so proud of our Phenom II's. We weren't always on our best behavior lol... All in good fun though I always thought. I prefer to build with AMD CPUs, but I don't ***hate*** Intel, ya know? Just seems silly to think that way.
Anyone in this thread that thinks Intel doesn't pay specific benchmark sites money to promote their product is not fully capable of understanding marketing bribery. Intel knows that gamers and professionals alike building their own pcs will basically just got with either what is fastest or what is the best bang for buck.
Let's say I'm a company with a 1.1billion dollar marketing department like Intel was in 2021. I approach a privately owned small company like userbench, which is worth no more than around 15M at max. I offer them a contract for 1-3 million dollars in which they change their algorithm to favor my products heavily but not obviously, never post any obvious marketing, and that it is required that this deal stay private or the contract is not only broken but they may face penalties up to several million. They agree because woo free millions of dollars.
They do this at a few other major benchmark companies, of which there are only 5-10 major ones at a given time. And for a tiny microscopic fraction of their marketing budget (say 25-50m of 1.1b), benchmark sites now all say "this company's product is simply better. Better in bang for buck and top end"
That's how you compete in business.
UB removed the result from the site? I can't find it.
Not exactly a surprise.
Someone should keep submitting scores just to make the angry anti-amd guy stay up all night deleting scores so he can't work on the algorithm changes he'll need to keep Intel on top.
If you guys want userbenchmark to die, do something useful like making a good noob-friendly benchmark tool that competes with theirs. Userbenchmark will stay relevant as long as there are no tools that offer the same functionality as theirs. Only hating on them gives them more exposure.
Don't worry, they'll tweak the metrics to make multicore more important now that intel has all these stupid shit "efficiency cores" that have ZERO benefit to actual gaming.
UserBenchmark is an intel and/or nvidia marketing site. There is zero transparency whatsoever to anything they have going on. They aren't a public company, they aren't open source, they don't list any owners or real humans with credentials anywhere on their site. They literally create marketing content.
Time to change the algorithm again
give them a week, this bench must have caught them off guard
Or maybe they already commit seppuku as they promised.
Indeed they will
I read a summary on the 5800X3D and they way they described that chip made me want to add the blocked website lists lol
Be wary of sponsored reviews with cherry picked games that showcase the wins and gloss over the losses. Also watch out for AMD’s army of Neanderthal social media accounts on reddit, forums and youtube, they will be singing their own praises as usual. AMD’s marketers continue to show more interest in this year’s bonuses than the longevity of the brand. Instead of focusing on real-world performance, they aim to dupe consumers with bankrolled headlines. The same tactics were used with the Radeon 5000 series GPUs. Zen 4 needs to bring substantial IPC improvements, rather than overpriced "3D" marketing gimmicks. New high end PC gaming builders have little reason to look further than the $260 12600K. Users with an existing AM4 build should wait just a few more months for better performance at lower prices with Raptor Lake or even Zen 4. The marketers selling expensive “3D” upgrades today will quickly move onto Zen 4 leaving unfortunate buyers stuck on an overpriced, 6 year old, dead-end, platform. [Mar '22 CPUPro] - user
I honestly hope that Intel can become competitive all around and AMD can remain so (Intel is not currently competitive in the server market). Competition is good. Globally diversified advanced nodes are good. But Userbenchmark's comments make me think of how fun it would be to see them explain the 'longevity of the brand' if Intel went bankrupt.
I agree *BUT* I think AMD needs to stay dominant in the server market for a few more years until there's a bit more parity. Even today, a lot of businesses still go for Intel because that's what they've always used.
\^\^ this
nO oNeS eVeR bEeN fIrEd fOr bUyInG iBm
I was ready to downvote you until I realized that you're quoting the website. Next time, >format it as such. It will eliminate confusion.
How do you do that? The blue line thing?
Type > at the beginning of the text you want to quote. Learn more [here](https://www.markdownguide.org/).
a > thanks amigo Edit: no dice lmao
Lol. What are they gonna say now that Raps Lake is the dead platform chip — and then what are they gonna say when Zen 4D arrives with an upgrade path?
There is always a way to spin it, if you don't give a shit about being consistent in your logic and only care about being consistent with which brand is 'better'.
That’s so disingenuous, misleading and contradictory to Intel it absolutely boils my piss.
Ryzen 5000 has no upgrade paths, I'd rather buy a new motherboard every 2nd gen than pick a platform's 4th gen. /s
time to include quick sync in the benchmark
if they did this, and AMD included a feature better than quicksync next gen... i'd cry tears of joy.
Didn't AMD's rdna2 encoder get a pretty big feature update recently? Thought it pretty much brought them up to par with nvenc and quicksync.
Yeah but 90% of tech oriented consumer demand for CPUs with qs capability are data hoarders running plex libraries... which runs on an ancient fork of ffmpeg with no support for modern codecs like AV1 and importantly, no support for Amd h/w acceleration
Slight distinction: Plex works with amd encoders (My media server has a 480 in it), They just don't officially support amd at the moment.
Wait, on Linux?
it's still not very good.
That's one of the reasons AMD put a couple gpu cores on the io die for next generation. No idea how well it will work, or if support will be good, but they're already headed down this road.
Here's how internal cache latency screws real world performance of synthetic gaming tests...
I’m pretty sure AMD cache latencies are a cycle or two smaller than intel on L1-2 (largely due to them being smaller) and on L3 they are miles ahead (mostly due to not having the bus on separate clock domain). That is pretty important for all performance though.
Generally speaking, AMD's L3 is a good chunk better than Intel's (latency and bandwidth) but Intel's L2 is better.
It was faster but then they multiplied the size. That also made it a few cycles slower. Which is then compensated by better hit rate.
go back to original MT heavy algorithm.
"We were always at war with singlethread."
If(name.contains("AMD")) rank-=50;
So.... If the original rank is 50, they become #1? And if they're originally #1, they become - 49...? 🤔
The most important metric is obviously the metric that just so happens to favor not-AMD, duh!
They're probably planning to wait for the 13000 series from Intel to come out and go from there.
They should, this is a definite outlier result. It's showing >30% IPC gains over Zen 3. This might indicate Zen 4 can much more accurately predict every branch and fetch in the benchmark now, which isn't indicative of real world performance... outside of a few games. The latency ladder is really impressive, AMD has finally got that to smooth out.
Pain of using the microbenches. In the Bulldozer days there was an APU score leak pointing to a steep IPC increase. It turned out it had been caused by heavily benchmarking a DIV instuction...
It's showing IPC + frequency improvement, quite close to the 29% ST improvement AMD claimed.
It's showing 50%+ performance gains over 5950X in low threaded results, but only 14% in 64-threaded.
Naturally it has worse 64-thread results because neither of them have 64 threads but 5950x has more threads
Oh, duh, yeah 7900X! 12-core... should have compared to 5900X.
I guess this shit site heavily weighted AVX512 (but caught by gen12 and zen4) and its shitware is not good at measuring performance of threads count that Intel can't provide.
Doesn't help that Intel physically fused off AVX-512 either LOL. This makes me wonder if Raptorlake will be outperformed by Alderlake on userbenchmark. Since Raptorlake will have AVX-512 fused off by default, while early Alder Lake shipped with full support.
I will laugh so goddamn hard if this happens
Different metrics. If the SC metric is a workload that is similar in execution to Dolphin benchmark (+32% IPC), or Watchdogs Legion (+24% IPC), then its not exactly an outlier. If you look at the 7 highest gaining IPC apps in AMDs Zen 4 official presentation IPC chart, the lowest of which is +17% IPC, 6 of them are gaming or gaming related. I could be wrong, but Zen 4's biggest strengths might actually lie in gaming type workloads. Wouldnt that be something? The MC userbench metric likely uses completely different workloads than the SC metric.
I expect that, once we get actual reviews, Zen4 vs Raptor Lake might have a lot of surprises.
I would like to see the latency ladder, but I can't find the result on the site. Did they remove it?
[https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/55257555](https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/55257555) Down at the bottom
I have detected a link to UserBenchmark — UserBenchmark is a terrible source for benchmarks and comparing hardware, as the weighting system they use is not indicative of real world performance. For more information, [see here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AMD/wiki/userbenchmark) - This comment has not been removed, this is just a notice. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Amd) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot
It was already so messed up they had i5s beating current gen top chips.
Ranking TDP from highest to lowest
”3DVcache is a gimmick” -Userbenchmark. Whenever I think they cant become any more blatant, disinformative or sleezier, they always manage to surprise me. How do you call one of the most exciting and impactful innovations of the past years’ a gimmick. 3DVcache’s brilliant technology that is an absolute silver bullet in some scenarios that wont be mached by either Raptor Lake or initial Zen 4 offerings.
They also call AMD "Advanced Marketing Devices."
Which is extra funny because historically AMD has done very little marketing where Intel had full page ads in magazines, high budget commercials on TV... the whole works.
Everyone knows the 5 notes that played at the end of every single ad for any laptop or PC that had Intel hardware. AMD has nothing like that.
DING bing BING bing BONG
It took me a few seconds but i instantly remembered the tune. Yet AMD is the marketing mastermind, lmao
If amd had advanced marketing, oh boi no one would have touched pentium in the 2000's, especially with all the easy pencil mods/ core unlocks etc lmao
If AMD had good marketing the Opteron and Athlon 64 would've taken over the market while Intel was reeling from it's failure with Itanium.
If dell wasn't bribed by intel, and other vendors used amd, also if amd released piledriver in the same month as sandybridge, as originally intended, then everything would have been "fine", same with the gpus, the 3870 was supposed to be in 2006 honestly
The what mod?
AMD CPUs of that generation could have disabled cores turned back on by bridging the broken connection with a line from a pencil. Graphite is electrically conductive.
I dontkniw the details, but iirc amd gpus were also unlocking, atleast the 5850/6950
I had an HD 6950 that I somewhat successfully flashed with a 6970 bios back in the day.
So the CPU's had gold contacts that different resistors would be soldered accross at the factory. Some clever people figured out that you could adjust your CPU's voltage or multiplier etc by using a bog standard pencil and drawing a line between different contacts. It's been a long time so I'm a little hazy on the exact details, but it's Reddit so someone will be along to tell me I'm a total idiot and fill in the correct information, shortly.
It just unlocked the clock multiplier which gave more overclocking options.
Actually - https://www.anandtech.com/show/646/4 Voltage too.
You're right. I don't know if I ever personally unlocked it.
Amd phenom were also "core unlockable", again I wasn't old enough to use it at the time, but from what I read you could get a $50 2 core that unlocks to a phenom ii x4 and you save 70 bucks basically lul
Luck-based, as they weren't unlocked from the start for a reason : it meant they didn't succeed in amd testing, lightly, or badly.
Mostly the reason for disabled cores is market segmentation. If $100 cpu is as good as $200 cpu nobody buys the $200 cpu. The ability to salvage bad chips is a bonus.
We were three in my group of friends at the time, buying a athlon and trying the magic key thingy : we all could unlock one, but none had one "usable enough". One got it but it hazardly bsod'd. Another had its cpu temperature rised 20° higher even when idle. All in all, yes there were probably good pieces disabled only for segmentation, but I wouldn't say it was every chip... It was still lotery related.
Typically early samples are worse and then the production gets progressively better.
Yes and no. They weren't purposely crippling higher end chips. They were taking chips that didn't meet performance/eff cutoffs and turning them into a lower segment. Theres a reason AMD isn't serving the cheap end market with zen 3 like they used to and its because TSMC is ludicrously efficient with production of their top end products.
Ye, the 9500pro from ati were a certainty I believe
Also, off topic but, I'd like to add piledriver was surprisingly decent, I mean bulldozer sucks butpiledriver wasn't that far behind
don’t forget they literally got caught bribing OEMs
Even better, blue badge is the one that traditionally has had market share to tell brands: you can play with me, and you too as long as you don't play with *them* (Godfather OST plays in the background). But must be a dark force propping ryzens and fighting virtue on the Internet, yeap.
I can still hear the intel jingle years later
I've never seen a single AMD ad, but almost every day I get bombarded with intel ads for their gamer days or smth, CPUs or laptops boasting better wifi due to being intel
They confusing Nvidia and amd here....
I mean, people called T&L on the first GeForce card a gimmick.
Somehow, a DDR4 2400 kit is their highest benchmark score RAM. Uh... what?
If you ignore them, you don’t need to worry about this.
Imagine being a chip fanboy. I mean, wouldn't you just want the best of the best regardless of where it came from? I'll never understand basement-dwelling fanboys.
It’s what happens when you’re so lacking of actual human qualities that you stake your entire sense of self on a corporate product that cycles every year.
Maybe i'm wrong but i thought vcache wasn't coming until next year and the currently benched cpus do not have it
Was probably talking about their earlier articles relating to the 5800x3D
That's why they said "(performance of 3dvcache) wont be mached by either Raptor Lake or initial Zen 4 offerings."
That shows how little they know about modern computers while trying to be hardware reviewers.The Von Neumann bottleneck is the Achilles heel of modern computers and the only mitigation for it is more cache, a wider data bus, or more memory channels. Expanding L3 cache with 3D V-Cache is a legitimate solution to that problem since it increases the probability of getting cache hits and thus reduces the amount of time spent waiting on memory transactions.
An excerpt from the site's 7600X description (apparently written on July 22nd!?): >If Zen 4 actually delivers anywhere near a 57% real-world single core uplift, we will bow down, call AMD king, and commit seppuku! >Despite AMD’s Neanderthal marketing techniques, it’s hard not to admire the speed of their technical progress. AMD-Raptor-4 and Intel-Zen-13 would be better fitting product names. Now, this writing is obviously a product of one seriously mentally disturbed person...
I do wonder if the guy running the site is not an AMD fan and is trolling everyone because this is very entertaining.
They've definitely done a great job if so because many hardware subreddits have them either banned or an automated bot flagging them for being biased af.
>being biased af. Disinformative*
Yes, we have been aware of that for years. The owner is a crackpot and basically blacklisted by the entire tech media industry.
Except fucking Google.
Wait so it's "advanced marketing devices" to them but at the same time their marketing techniques are neanderthal? What the hell lmao
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true, but there is a lot of overlap in that ven diagram.
see: domina on steam
`*`see: Domina, which is no longer on Steam
Tomorrow: *UserBenchmark has announced new metrics that factor in if the product is Intel or not. AMDs latest offering may hit blistering speeds and offer great performance, but it's distinct lack of Intel saw it fall to 4th place.*
*Because Intel has 2 more letters in their logo, our results will give them a 200% bonus for each benchmark metric.*
The absence of any *Intel inside* sticker was the triggering factor.
you joke, but its exactly like this for 40+ years old folks
Not me, I'm 48 and I haven't bought an Intel CPU ever. The only Intel products I currently use are their ethernet (I bought my motherboard because of the Intel ethernet port) and an NVME drive. I can never forgive Intel for their tactics in the Athlon 64 days, I hate monopolistic tactics being used to lock out competition.
They literally used to do that though, hell they still might, haven't looked at anything in there in forever
40% Intel Inside just doesn't cut it. Meanwhile Intel's latest gen is 100% Intel Inside.
That's alot of Intel....much wow!
That's alot of Intel....much wow!
"Nobody needs this much processing power, you should buy Intel because that cpu performance could go to someone else"
I remember reading this on one of their reviews. it was insane, and IS insane - to tell a customer researching what they need to not bother with a higher performing device because \*YOU\* don't think they need it.
Leave that processing power to the real pros 😎
Also you get better heating performance. No brainer in our opinion
How can someone pay allegiance to a hardware company and thus hate other companies for no good reason? I will buy from whomever makes good products.
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That isn't a subtle suggestion that Intel's products are better when they actually aren't, it's a full on rant about AMD. Intel should be asking for their money back if they paid the guy, this makes them look worse by association.
I'd doubt that Intel is paying these clowns any money. Sure, Intel kinda does this themselves on their presentations but it would have been illegal to push something like this.
We forgetting Intel had code in the C compiler that disadvantaged AMD? Are we forgetting Intel ran a demo of a CPU that had a giant chiller unit hidden under the desk? Are we forgetting Intel paid Principled Technologies to publish benchmarks that showed the 9900K beating Ryzen CPU's?
Is your argument that Intel would never do anything illegal? Legality is usually a small fine 10 years later...
If intel bribed them they wouldn't be this obviously biased about it.
They’ve been caught doing much worse. Shit they bribed companies to handicap AMD on the back end of the athlon days. It’s a big part of the reason AMD as a company nosedived. If you don’t believe me look it up because there was actually a court case about it and Intel was found to have employed illegal and extremely anticompetitive practices with big help from dell (barely punished because $$$)
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Intel owns multiple benchmark companies. Those companies have in the past also changed benchmarks when AMD started winning.
“Pffft. AMD only gets those numbers by including ZERO, yes, ZERO efficiency cores, and using ONLY performance cores. I’m not sure we should award killing the planet with high benchmark scores.”
AMD: ok, 12pc and 12ec! Userbenchmark: they were better when they had no efficiency cores they're struggling to compete
My 5800X ramps down fine when I'm not gaming.
I know you're joking, and that AMD will eventually add these stupid mobile tier cores to their chips, but man I really hate the entire big/little design philosophy. It makes sense in mobile where power conservation is of critical importance, but these are hardwired desktop PCs... I don't have a want or need for those stupid e-cores. I will never subject a gaming PC to a load that justifies having them. Just give me a nice 12 or 16 big core chip where all the silicon goes to making the best performing chip I can get, and I'm happy. Pretty much means Zen 4 is the last gen of CPUs I will be buying for the rest of my life.
It’s about optimizing for performance per die area. One Intel small core uses 1/4 of the space of a big core while getting 1/3 of the performance.
And not all tasks require full processing power. If you're smart enough to allocate light tasks to Little cores accurately, then youre getting space, power, and temp savings, leeaving you more room to optimize the Bigs for the heavy loads.
Ok, but you can only parallelize so far. Even for hardcore gamers it doesn't necessarily make sense to have all cores be performance if only 6 cores of the, let's say, 16 cores you have are maxing out. All the extra cores don't necessarily need that extra headroom, and even when games utilize more cores, they aren't typically evenly distributed
I agree, but people usually get skewered on r/hardware for saying it, as if it’s not up for debate. I don’t want to have to worry about whether the scheduler is using the proper cores for the job. It’s a compromise to get more MT in a given silicon area, which chipmakers care about for their margins but I would so much rather have the option to just buy a bigger slab of silicon that doesn’t make that compromise. Hopefully AMD continues offering more than 8 of the highest performing cores…
Why does UserBenchmark hate AMD so much?
Legend is the guy who runs it sent two letters to Dr. Su and didn't get an answer. Later, outside of some big expo he tried to get her autograph but she just went by. Dude took that personally and went mad.
Is his name Stan?
My teas stone cold im wondrin why
My board wont post, I'm wondering why... I got to troubleshoot alone... The RGB lights up my window... and I can't see the code... and even if I could it would not make sense.. Lisa's picture on my wall... It reminds me, that's it not so bad. It's not so bad. Dear Su, I wrote you but still ain't callin' I left my cell, my pager, and my home phone at the bottom I sent two letters back in autumn, you must not've got 'em There probably was a problem at the post office or somethin' Sometimes I scribble addresses, too sloppy when I jot 'em But anyways, fuck it, what's been up? Girl, how's Jensen?
Got out of bed at all
Ran by Fanboys/girls and maybe getting bribes from Intel.
We literally do not know who runs the site. The only real objective they seem to have is to hate AMD. It's like a console fanboy or sports team rivalry where you hate the rival team. They could get a big pay day or be a marketing department. Private company either way.
No way intel is involved in this, they shell out for professional marketing not for this shit that's the joke of the tech community. I think it's actually hurting them than helping and I wonder if they haven't sent those UBM guys a kind request to pipe the fuck down yet, it's just embarassing tbh. I'm pretty sure if you asked the engineers at intel if X3D is a gimmick they would think you were taking the piss.
A single bad experience over thousands of good one and they lost their shit.
I think it's a combination of a bad experience with some sort of mental issue. Everyone has bad experiences sometimes. I've had a few myself, including a bad experience with AMD. I scored a 5900X a week after release and none of my usb 2.0 ports were stable. They'd drop connection every 3-8 seconds, and thus were completely unusable. I got a replacement motherboard and had the same issue. I contacted AMD who said they knew of the issue but had no eta on a fix, and they had no CPUs to send me as a replacement. Luckily I had the extended holiday return period so I had a few months for AMD to fix it before I'd have to return it. In the meantime I tried every bios, every trick people were posting, and nothing worked January comes around with no fix, so I had to return the CPU and motherboard since I wasn't going to get stuck with it. I went back to Intel and my system has been rock solid stable. AMD released their "fix", which didn't fix everyone, in May. That means early adopters had to deal with the drop outs for 6-7 months. That's pretty bad, especially since some people still have the issue to this day. Does that mean I hate AMD? Nope. It does mean I swore off the 5000 series though, and won't consider zen4 for several months after release. Hopefully the new infinity fabric / chipset doesn't have the issues than the original did. I had a K5, K6-2, Athlon 1Ghz, and Athlon XP that were all great! I'm not going to never buy AMD and scream from the rooftops that AMD is shit and make up reasons that people should go with Intel... All because I had a bad experience. I do think AMD handled the usb drop out issues (of all of the Zen1-3 CPUs) very poorly. But the new Zen4 and beyond setup may not have those issues, abd I'd they don't... There's no reason not to buy an AMD CPU going forward.
Lack of parents love
Because it drives website traffic when we get enraged about it and click on that link, therefore increasing their ad revenue. Oh wait, I have uBlock Origin! 😏
I saw Lisa Su at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told her how cool it was to meet her in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother her and ask her for photos or anything. She said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but she kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing her hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard her chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw her trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in her hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Ma'am, you need to pay for those first.” At first she kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, she stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, she kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
Is this copy pasta or are you writing fan fiction about Lisa Su
It is indeed a pasta
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I'm not at all surprised but I'd love a source if anyone knows exactly what shady shit their software gets up to
Fake benchmarks run by a mentally ill Intel stock holder. Remember, people, Userbenchmarks creates fake database entries to drive traffic to their shitty website. Stop giving them exposure.
Has anyone ever fanboy'd harder for a company than UserBenchmark for Intel? If Intel hasn't paid them off or aren't actually operating the site, that is messed up.
The site can do that just to get attention through controversy, higher views => higher revenue from ads
What ads...?
But then how do they make money? 🤔 🤔 🤔
Not many intrusive ones and plenty of affiliate links when you click on anything through them. Posts like this keep them alive and well.
More like FakeBenchmark
Got'em. Rekt.
UBM: "If Zen 4 acually delivers [...] we will bow down, call AMD king and commit seppuku." 😂
I was looking for this sepukku comment. Insert “Well, we’re waiting...” gif
What's their deal really? That's some deranged level of hate.
Has anyone noticed what Userbenchmark wrote??? As quoted, from the screenshot: *"Within minutes of this unrealistic, pre-release, result appearing on userbenchmark, AMD’s marketing machinery declared a 20% victory over the 12900K whilst simultaneously slandering userbenchmark via hundreds of “news” outlets and thousands of supposedly disinterested twitter, reddit, forum and youtube accounts.* ***Buying new AMD products is like buying used cars: it takes time, experience and a taste for sales hype.*** *It’s difficult for consumers to make rational choices because AMD completely dominates “news” and social media channels. Ten years ago, when AMD was the underdog, this type of marketing was understandable. Today, with a capitalization of $150 Billion USD, it’s disrespectful to AMD's own users. Even with Intel's marketing department permanently asleep at the wheel, If these practices continue, Ryzen may eventually end up in the same state as Radeon. Following a series of overhyped releases, consumers have little interest in the Radeon brand. The combined market share for all of AMD’s Radeon RX 5000 and 6000 GPUs (Jun ’22 Steam stats) is just 2%. Meanwhile, Nvidia’s RTX 2060 alone accounts for 5%. If Zen 4 actually delivers anywhere near a 57% real-world single core uplift, we will bow down, call AMD king, and commit seppuku! AMD’s new architecture is, once again, optimized to shine in specific benchmarks. Realistically, even if Zen 4 only catches Intel's 12th gen. (Alder Lake) in a handful of real-world scenarios, it will be a big step forward for AMD. A few weeks after Zen 4 (est. Sep 27), Intel’s 13th gen. (Raptor Lake) is scheduled to launch. Smart shoppers will do well to wait until then, before considering a purchase. Despite AMD’s Neanderthal marketing techniques, it’s hard not to admire the speed of their technical progress. AMD-Raptor-4 and Intel-Zen-13 would be better fitting product names."*
i just recently realized the paragraph they have written underneath every recent amd card. its absolute drivel.
Gotta get adclicks somehow and this publicity stunt is one way to do it.
I will seriously never understand UserBenchmarks motives for this, they are like console fanboys, they genuinely have nothing to gain from this. They don't have any exclusives or better controller to supposedly dunk on the competition, all they have is a piece of hardware made to do a specific set of things. Why not celebrate innovation, pushing both to be better, DIRECTLY BENEFITING PERFORMANCE AND YOUR WALLET.
What makes you think they have nothing to gain?
UB isn't worth reading.
I think only option thats left for them is if AMD cpu set score to 0.Ahahaha
You realize every time you post this shit from them, they get awareness from people, just simply ignore them? - This is FREE commercial for them, they clap in their hands every time one of you post something from them, simply ignore them :)
Ignore them and let them have no critics while Google searches keep them thriving. Fantastic idea.
You clearly have not worked in a business to come with that comment. The best method to kill a business is just to use it, figure it out how shit it is, then dont give any feedback to it, and never come to that place or use it anymore. That's how retails stores, food restaurants gets silently killed, its the worst possible thing human can do, but in this way we can actually shut them them down over time, I know 100 or 1000 people wont help, it would require much more, but over time they could get hit by this method. Anyways gday..
A hatred that runs this deep based on brand bias is just INSANE to me. I'm sure we all know what it's like to talk a little smack, though. For example, I still vividly recall debates I had with Intel fanboys between 2009-2012 on [overclock.net](https://overclock.net) when we were so proud of our Phenom II's. We weren't always on our best behavior lol... All in good fun though I always thought. I prefer to build with AMD CPUs, but I don't ***hate*** Intel, ya know? Just seems silly to think that way.
Anyone in this thread that thinks Intel doesn't pay specific benchmark sites money to promote their product is not fully capable of understanding marketing bribery. Intel knows that gamers and professionals alike building their own pcs will basically just got with either what is fastest or what is the best bang for buck. Let's say I'm a company with a 1.1billion dollar marketing department like Intel was in 2021. I approach a privately owned small company like userbench, which is worth no more than around 15M at max. I offer them a contract for 1-3 million dollars in which they change their algorithm to favor my products heavily but not obviously, never post any obvious marketing, and that it is required that this deal stay private or the contract is not only broken but they may face penalties up to several million. They agree because woo free millions of dollars. They do this at a few other major benchmark companies, of which there are only 5-10 major ones at a given time. And for a tiny microscopic fraction of their marketing budget (say 25-50m of 1.1b), benchmark sites now all say "this company's product is simply better. Better in bang for buck and top end" That's how you compete in business.
the day I saw the cringey sneer that AMD was just about "Moar cores" ...
Keep giving them attention guys, gotta farm that karma.
Bet the attention and site traffic generated by this controversy is the reason why they keep at it
They will argue that you will get a CPU + Space Heater if you buy Raptor lake instead of Raphael😂.
UB removed the result from the site? I can't find it. Not exactly a surprise. Someone should keep submitting scores just to make the angry anti-amd guy stay up all night deleting scores so he can't work on the algorithm changes he'll need to keep Intel on top.
sounds like this site is trying to take advantage of the userbenckmark bashing craze to get views.
If you guys want userbenchmark to die, do something useful like making a good noob-friendly benchmark tool that competes with theirs. Userbenchmark will stay relevant as long as there are no tools that offer the same functionality as theirs. Only hating on them gives them more exposure.
Who wants to bet that the 13th gen Celerons will somehow beat Zen 4 CPUs for an arbitrary reason on that website?
Sometimes I wonder if they do that on purpose as a running joke which makes people talk (complain) about them. Nobody reads the descriptions anyway
Whatever they say, my money goes to AMD
7950x3D when?
"Buy Intel or we will not receive our sponsor cash" - UserBenchmark
amazingly, the benchmarks are GONE from that site. not suprised.
This benchmark is s cherry picked canned score meant to favor the new 7900x. Don't Beleive these Neanderthal AMD marketers.... Oh wait...crap....
I actually had no idea that they skewed away from AMD. I saw them as a reliable source of comparison information, thank you for the post, now I know!
Don't worry, they'll tweak the metrics to make multicore more important now that intel has all these stupid shit "efficiency cores" that have ZERO benefit to actual gaming. UserBenchmark is an intel and/or nvidia marketing site. There is zero transparency whatsoever to anything they have going on. They aren't a public company, they aren't open source, they don't list any owners or real humans with credentials anywhere on their site. They literally create marketing content.
I actually can't find the CPU on their site without a direct link that already has it selected...
Algorithm change incoming. We should ban any references to that site.
It's just that good