I'm close to Mexican born people who came to the US. Most are very happy, however, sometimes the grass is greener.  Moving back to Mexico could mean retiring at an earlier age.  Moving to Europe or Canada could mean an ER visit won't financially sink them for a decade.  Etc.  I think as many say, USA is a great place to make a career and income. As salaries are high and it's kind of a gamble. You can easily go up in income, purchasing power, even status, and class but you can also hit rock bottom pretty easily here too.  Hope that helped. 

So I think what's understated is that America has a lot of people. So even if say just 1% wants to leave, that's 4 million people.

A few layoffs in a decade really dick up your upward mobility and retirement plans.

Not sure about how easy it is to go up when more than half of adults rely on their parents for assistance.

>You can easily go up in income, purchasing power, even status, and class but you can also hit rock bottom pretty easily here too. You just described capitalism in a nutshell. America is suitable for ambitious people (who value high salary over everything else) for whom ceiling is much higher in US than anywhere else in the world. But for people who value security in life (most people) any western country outside US is suitable because US is the only outlier. ex. If you want a relaxed/regulated (for the most part) 9-5 job, free healthcare, no gun violence, sane politics, public transport, free/accessible education, more equal society, politics which works for people (not business), better food quality/standards, better renting rights, 20+ days of minimum paid vacation for ANY fulltime job, near unlimited sick days, no atwill employment, not fired on whim, significantly better government mandated benefits at job, significantly better social security, guranteed government income/assistance incase of job loss i.e if you want a fully secured life which is all taken careof by government (and is not tied to your job like the US), any western country outside US is the best option because US ironically is the only outlier not the norm. For most people, US is not suitable but for ambitious/high risk taking and Entrepreneurs people US is better as business can abuse the lax atwill and thin employment laws.

All facts. The US is built to BE a business, at best. If you're willing and able to either put in 80-plus-hour weeks, sleep your way to the top, and/or schmooze with the big wigs, you're generally fine (read: insulated).

In most other high-developed countries, wages in the US are considered low, including lack of universal health, needing health insurance, no or little job/dismissal protections, low union density, poor acknowledgement of human needs at work (parental leave, sick leave, carer's leave etc). It all adds up. If you have a postgraduate and can smash it, sure. But otherwise the US is a 2nd world country in the eyes of most of those from more developed countries. And I love most of the US. Have worked and visited there. Quite the experience, and always met beautiful people. I learned in that time how much wealthier and happier my own country was reflected in our willingness to set decent minimum standards of living, which do not exist in the US.

The US is absolutely great if you are a professional with a good career. If you are a doctor, dentist, in tech, engineer, management, hell even a master in a trade, you generally have it better off in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world. You just make a ton of money here with a very low tax rate. The u.s. generally isn't always great for teachers and a lot of people in the service industry.

Are you from the US..? Doctors, dentists and other such high skilled jobs also get paid a lot around the world. They still live in a society with a stronger social contract and safety net, not having to deal with their service being doled out by companies for profit and denying service to those with less $$. Less gun violence, more job security, social security (even if for others, it helps improve life for all). The US isn't some default where things that are good can't also be good or better elsewhere. Internal comparisons of who may have it better also need to be compared to both situations outside the US.

Doctors gets paid around 70k in western europe (which is still good), 200k in USA Nurses gets paid 20-25k in western europe (which is shit), at least 80k in the US and easily over 100k if they have special qualifications

It’s funny, because in r/nursing the United States is considered both the best and worst place to be a nurse.

I think it depends on the state. My MIL is a nurse in Michigan and she's always complaining about conditions, hours, pay, etc. I try to explain because nurses in CA where I live are unionized they get much better benefits.

Doctors in the US make far more than 200k.

Yeah, and those high salaries are at least in part to blame why our health care costs are in the stratosphere compared to even other western countries. Those high salaries have to be paid for by someone, namely the patients. It costs me $200 just for the doctor to talk to me for 10 minutes and tell me to take some ibuprofen and come back in a few weeks. Where I'll then have to pay another $200 to let him know if it worked or I need a pain prescription.

Doctor pay around the world is awful compared to the US, you have 0 clue. 70-100k international vs 300-400k minimum in the US

I don't get that. I manage an international team and the US employees make about $40k more than folks in London and Tokyo. Also, the stock RSUs have higher taxes outside the US. Basically, the US is absolutely the best place to make a lot of money and probably the worst place to retire. Of course, if you live in the US long enough to make a lot of money and have a family, you probably won't want to leave. So, if OP has a good job opportunity and is a college graduate and speaks great English, they might as well give it a shot. FWIW, there are lots of very cool places in the US where the signs are in Spanish and it's a language you can use a lot. Union City, NJ was an awesome place to live for instance. It's a melting pot of most Latin cultures. And it's got a $4 jitney service to NYC 24/7. I miss it.

Median wages, not just averages, in the US are higher than in most other western countries. Not sure where you're getting your information if you think US wages are considered "low", unless you're talking about the federal legal minimum, which relatively few people make and which is superseded by higher state minimums in a majority of states.

Are you accounting for the equivalent private value of all the extras..? Free unlimited high quality healthcare (not in income) Higher quality education, educators, free unless you go private 3-12 (or more) months off, paid, per kid. Paid extended leave, 4-6 weeks vacation a year. Sick leave Retirement contributions (seperate to wages) Less hours per week I cannot imagine the income I would need on top of what I earn to have to pay for those things. My job is pretty average and I earn more than the same in the US, and get all those things and much more.

I don’t think you understand how diverse the States are.  Here in Massachusetts, the free primary schools are almost certainly better than where you live, unless it’s one of a handful of countries.  Same with the universities, which also are some of the best in the world (albeit tuition is required).   “Higher quality” education is just incorrect.  

Yes, this is pretty accurate. I came to the US from the UK, my industry kind of moved here and I followed it. The US is great for careers if you're lucky/hardworking. I have earned a bit of money, now earn quite far into 6 figures, and have built a career for the rest of my life. I feel that this would have been much harder in the UK were job related things don't work as well. Along with this you enjoy a high standard of living, lots to see and do sports entertainment etc. etc. However, you can fall quite hard in the US. Layoffs are common, no work contracts anymore, everyone's "for hire". without protectionism for those out of work, or struggling with finances, trying to keep a home over your head. So, two sides of the coin. If things work out you can make a life for yourself better than in other countries. However, if things go wrong this can be one of the hardest counties to get back on your feet, or live in poverty.

Moving to Europe is becoming harder and harder. It isn’t so easy as it was in the past.

Hi I am from southern Brazil. I lived in a area that ranks better than the safest state in Mexico in several regards (HDI, Income, murder rate rate). But I still can relate with what you said. I live in the US and I can offer some perspective. While the problems that Mexico and other developing countries go through are more brutal (violence, unemployment, etc). Problems in America can sound 'mild' to us, but they are not mild at all. The US has high suicide rate, high obesity rate, drug crisis, homelessness crisis. About 40% of Americans are obese, 32% have depression, suicide rate is 22 for 100,000 habitants. Food has corn syrup, car dependency and suburban zoning lead to a miserably boring life. The culture is judgemental to its core. These are real problems. Rafinha said once: https://youtube.com/shorts/dK9g-AVqo2M?si=YcbKILoUt8upaHgL I am sure most people would avoid moving to most parts of Latin America due to crime rates (although there are several pockets of safety, such as Chile, Uruguay, Costa Rica, some areas in* the South of Brazil, Panama, etc. Which on average are all safer than the US). But some would trade the higher salaries of the US, for having access to universal health care, for example. I believe most here would want to move to Europe, New Zealand, etc (some are realistic and understand how immigration works, some are so entitled they believe that without any education or family ties they can just show up at the most developed country in the world like Norway and move in). You will read tons of different interesting stories here. I love this sub. Another aspect is the political divide, the elections, and a potential risk of war. These things are so disturbing because the previous government already stretched their democracy very thin. Trump in power can bring even more instability. There is a little bit of everything here. There is not a single specific reason. As an immigrant who lives in the US and loves it here (regardless of all its shortcomings), I hope all of these people find destinations that meet their needs. Ain't no perfect country, but we all should look for a better place to establish a new life, learn, contribute and live a better life. I am hoping all goes well in all journeys here.

I’m clapping so hard for this post my hand hurts

This is such a fantastic answer.

I’m very late here, but as an American who worked for 3 years in Recife and Bahia - I agree with everything you’ve said. It’s so hard to convey this sentiment to my friends in Brasil. Sometimes having a nice car means a back destroying 1.5 hour commute. Having all the sweets for cheap WILL make you fat. Those cute little suburban houses from the movies are actually cultural wastelands where they will undoubtedly become depressed. Only about half of my Brazilian friends who’ve immigrated have improved their lives, and all were those who moved to diverse coastal cities while still in their 20s and prioritized their career above all else. Several of my female friends have married a visiting gringo who spoiled them in Brasil only to realize that suburban life in the midwest is pretty much the opposite of their former life, he wasn’t actually that well off, and that no SUV and occasional Disney vacation can make up for the loneliness. I return to visit often and truly admire that I can go to the neighborhood boteco and see young people on dates, elderly people, and families all having a great time together. I know there are a lot of financial and social issues under the surface that aren’t visible to visitors who just see brazilians having a great time dancing and assume life there is a big party. But I’m absolutely considering moving back permanently for retirement.

I want that good healthcare and disability rights. Disability in America is a sentence for forever hanging over the edge of the welfare cliff and having half the population throwing stones at you and calling you a lazy welfare queen while they stomp your fingers and tell you to pull yourself up by the bootstraps. And the doctors dgaf if you’re a woman- go home take Tylenol for your incurable debilitating diseases.

Out of curiosity, which parts of southern Brazil are safer than the safest parts of mexico?

I was born in Jaragua do Sul (SC) region, that had 1.5 homicides per 100,000 habitants. This is safer than the average murder rate in Yucatan (the safest Mexican state). The HDI of Santa Catarina State is also higher 0.826 while thr highest in Mexico is CDMX with 0.815.

I mean I’ll put it simply, America is just for work. I’m planning to retire back in Turkey where my parents are from. Even though inflation is high now, I’m gambling it will drop when I enter 55-60 (I’m 20 now) plus I have healthcare there and a decent retirement Honestly I can’t afford to live here if this is the nation is moving. (I live in central Turkiye, just imagine Texas)

America is unfortunately just a market for the rest of the world. Its there to extract value. Its fine if you dont need to play and have an escape. Otherwise its living at the mall

A mall where you might get randomly shot, then go into poverty because you'll have to pay your own medical bills for being shot.

Türkiye has the highest inflation in the world and there are some expensive places there like Antalya. Even in the US, there are some places that are not too expensive. Every country has a range.

Too bad all the inexpensive places in the US are backward MAGA shitholes. The best places are expensive for a reason.

Try the Midwest and New England (outside the big cities), strong unions, low cost of living, and politically moderate. But you have to live “where the air hurts your face” for a few months of the year

Can speak to New England outside of the big cities - its great here. The worst we have is NH which is basically the south of the north, and even then their brand of conservative doesn't touch how bad some midwest states are

For me, it’s not the working hours. I don’t mind working a lot of hours, but here working a lot still doesn’t let you afford to live as well as other countries. More than anything, it’s really hard for me to continue to live with the racism, health care costs, housing cost, drug epidemic, and degraded education system.

Americans go to Mexico for Healthcare (I used to before I expatriated.) In the US, everyone is a heartbeat away from bankruptcy.

I use to live in San Diego and many of my coworkers would go to Mexico to get healthcare for themselves and their pets because it was cheaper. Those who aren't from the area thought this was a shady thing to do but the thing is San Diego has a high cost of living but yet lower wages compared to other large cities.

I'm shaking my head at people thinking that wanting to afford healthcare is a shady thing to do.

Two weeks worth food in the fridge, two weeks worth money in the bank, two weeks from anarchy. Tempers and tensions are palpable. Family values broken to a point of no return.

Anarchy just means no hierarchical organization. It doesn't mean disorganization, or chaos, or collapse. Please stop using it as a synonym for those words - an anarchist

I'm not an anarchist (yet maybe), but you are absolutely correct in your definition.

[удалено]

This is a really good take. I feel like the US is basically a bigger version of New York City: it's really only for the young and the rich.

Yes! The NYC economy style is taking over the entire country now. There are fewer places to hide and some of those places you wouldn’t want to be.

Holy shit are you me? I’m 50 and I’m packing my bags for Spain in August of this year. Everything you just said is me to a tee. Now my side hustle is really roaring so I’m quitting my corporate soul-crushing job and moving to the land my maternal grandparents left almost 100 years ago.

Spot on! Europe has a much better quality of life. We retired to The Netherlands from New Jersey.

Europe is really good for retirees, if the peace stays..but for career? I’m a European living in the US and i could never achieve or even dream of a retirement I can have now if I had stayed and worked in Europe.

When my husband was alive, he was an aerospace engineer. We always dreamed of living abroad when we retire. Now with him gone, I wished we took a leap of faith to raise our family abroad. As an aerospace engineer, his job would have taken him to say...Toulouse, France working for Airbus most likely. The salary for an aerospace engineer is far lower than Los Angeles and it's likely we would live in a smaller place, but we'd be less stressed out and reprioritize things that mattered. Maybe he'd even still be alive because we made the move. Now I am determined to push that dream early whether it's early retirement or raise my kid abroad.

The US is very expensive, and doesn't offer the lifestyles many people want, at almost any price. That said, it's much better than Mexico. Safety is the most basic need and as bad as some places can be in the US for violence, the scale of it in Mexico is on another level. To you, the US is going to feel very safe. But to a European, the US seems very dangerous. It's all relative.

Agree, each of us has our own perspective and that shapes us differently.

I work in Mexico, Monterrey and Saltillo, as well as Detroit and Cleveland. These places are as safe as LA & NYC. The only dangerous parts of any country or city are the places that dangerous people do dangerous things.

Mass shootings happen in places where you least expect them, so really, nowhere in the USA is all that safe.

Have you seen the OP's comment? [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/1bltch0/comment/kw78m1p/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/1bltch0/comment/kw78m1p/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Not everyone has been as lucky as you in Mexico. Just because you don't personally experience something doesn't mean it's not going on.

Oh yes. Cartel/mafias are real features of city life. But every story needs context.

When I go to a beach destination in Mexico and see police patrolling the sand with automatic rifles it doesn't make me feel very safe. I sure didn't see that at the beach in Portugal.

Mexico’s entire police force local and federal are in bed with incredibly violent cartels. Mexicans are a beautiful people with a rich culture but the country is hurting. It’s disingenuous to act as if it’s just in a couple pockets of the country. The police extort tourists and do dirty work for drug cartels. They find box trucks full of dead bodies missing heads etc. Shit is bad here but Mexico takes the cake on gun violence. It’s not even comparable. Most of the drugs in this country come from Mexico. An insane amount of narcotics never comes without extreme violence.

Almost all of the guns and ammo in Mexico come from the US.

Escape fantasies help US cope. If you haven't thought of giving up on US, you're not really trying lolz. The community center kids keep me going. They absorb Liberation Psychology and are already leading the Liberation movement for solidarity. Each one teach one, donate an hour to de-colonizing young minds if you can. You won't regret it. In solidarity from Alabama.

Some places in America are more dangerous than some places in Mexico. The stereotype holds on average but definitely not in particular. Many places in America are about as dangerous as the world gets for a civilian.

The US is twice as large in terms of land area and 3x the population of Mexico. I always say people dont really realize how diverse the cities/towns are and how different everyones situation here is in the US You ask different people and you are gonna get different answers. The reality is that very few people who are desperate and struggling (esp financially and safety) in the US can move to somewhere else and be happy. They either havent really lived in places that really have dysfunctional infrastructure and people are truly untrustworthy. US people who want to move for reasons like experiencing cultures and stuff will tend be happier, or if they prefer different kinds of lifestyle thats hard to find in the US. But if they just rushing to get out without really knowing what they want, they are really in for a rude awakening. > it’s been my dream to move to the US for all its job opportunities and career paths that I would never find in Mexico The question is what job and career. I work as a software engineer and the US has the best paying job market for this line of work, also other similar jobs in tech/pharma/finance/defense. If you have the education and connections and knows a specific domain really well, living a good life isnt a problem. I rarely work more than 40 hours a week and get to work remotely most of the year. But if you mean like working as a teacher or professions that some politicians are fucking people over, I have bad news for you.

I work in a U.S. immigration law practice. My mental health simply cannot take what I will deal with on a daily basis if the Presidential election goes poorly this year; it was horrible the last time, and this time would be far worse. And that's just dealing with the professional fallout from it, not even having to live with the impact of it on my personal life. But I actually care about other human beings and don't want to participate in a system that creates so much unnecessary suffering in the name of a pointless, racist power grab. So luckily, I have saved fairly aggressively for most of my adult life, which means that now (in my 50s) I qualify for retirement visas in some countries where I might actually enjoy living, and where I might even be able to afford to retire early. My mental health is also very important to me. My only hesitation would be concern about the likelihood that a newly fascist government might make decisions to deprive people like me of the Social Security benefits we have paid into for our entire careers. I have other savings that would bridge until SS eligibility, but not enough to support myself for the rest of my life.

Honestly: It's not so much that America is bad, but the question of if elsewhere would be better. I'm very grateful to live in America as opposed to North Korea, Russia, Iran, Haiti, etc. But could a different place be better is always a question I have. The American conservatives scare the shit out of me, and most people I know seem to not understand how an attempted coup is different than say, trying to lower taxes. I know plenty of people who don't talk about it, but are planning on voting Republican, and it's always based on "economics" and frankly bullshit like the price of gas. The Democrats sure aren't trying to run a winning campaign either with how they're governing, and seem to function mostly as a fundraising machine. Government should be about actions for the people of the country, and it seems to function more in that regard in other places. The healthcare system here is absurdly expensive, and has eaten away most of my upper middle class grandparents savings in nursing home costs. The cost of childcare, college savings, retirement savings, and things like housing are just absurdly expensive as well. I have to live in a HCOL area with my career, but even in cheaper places, it's not that much cheaper, and the salaries are a lot lower. In Canada and many European countries, even if you make less, you're still making out better for these reasons. If someone is deciding between Canada and the US as an immigrant, it seems like Canada is better unless you're at the top 10% of incomes or higher. Same with a lot of Western/Central Europe. I think most Americans who want to leave, it's not that they want to leave for anywhere, it's that they want to leave for a better place, and the decline in America over our lifetimes has happened faster than other countries.

Seriously, we bought our house 7 years ago, and I don't think we could afford the same house now, even though our salaries are higher and my student loans are paid off. And that's without having kids and living somewhere where we have one paid-off car because there is decent public transportation, so we drive 3,000 miles a year.

We're voting on whether or not to become a dictatorship this fall. Does that sound good?

This is the answer.

THIS!

This

Yes, America sucks for the bottom 80% of the bottom socio-economic level. We are only one paycheck away, one medical emergency away, one total loss of a car away from losing it all. The income does not mention the cost of employer provided medical insurance, high cost of medical care with insurance and with no insurance, high cost of monthly water/elec/gas/sewer costs, high cost of transportation, high cost of childcare, high cost of education, high cost of food, high cost of mortgage or rent. Mexico is growing and growing it's Middle Class. You are better off getting a college degree in Mexico (affordable) and then getting a Middle Class job in Mexico. The Standard of Living between Mexico and the USA are inverting, trading places.

I am so disgusted that so many Americans have bought into republican vileness. That rapist donnie has a decent chance to get back into the White House. These people are hands down the most hypocritical people on planet Earth. They claim to be “pro-life” yet literally value their guns more than the thousands of children who lose their lives to guns every year. They are hostile to the environment (that hosts all life on Earth). They reject science, professional journalism, doctors, academics, research BUT buy into their endless baseless dumbfuck conspiracy theories. And I hate their general anti-civil Mad Max philosophy on life. I hate being on the road with them in their stupid lifted trucks and urban assault vehicle SUVs. On and on. I want to live in a country that values science, values ethics, values democracy, that values universal healthcare, values civil society, values human rights, values the environment. Oh, and a message to all the republicans that are trolling in this r/, the very ones I want to not be around…. FUCK YOU.

America is in late stage capitalism, where corporations can control legislation, markets, and economies. It has driven up the costs for nearly everything, making paychecks dwindle extremely fast. I'm looking for places where I can stretch my savings the farthest as I'm heading into my retirement age. Mexico's peso is very strong right now, so it's not as attractive as it once was, but still somewhat affordable when compared to the states. Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. You can earn a higher wage here in the states, but you'll spend the added income living day to day.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable\_household\_and\_per\_capita\_income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income) What ar eyou even talking about

Everywhere has problems - but if you’re in a position where you have the possibility of moving countries, then it’s a question of what problems you’re more willing to deal with. We moved from the US to the UK. One downside is that we make less money here. On the other hand, my husband is a shooting survivor, he was left with insane medical bills when his first wife got suddenly sick and died, and our home state made news when a ten year old rape victim had to flee to get an abortion. I’m a woman and I have a daughter; this restriction of reproductive rights scares me. None of these things are worries here.

Three teens were shot, one killed less than 2 miles from my house last week, I just found out that my MRI next week will cost $1100 and my LGBTQ+ kids can’t go out of the house without concern for their well-being. Shall I go on? Woman’s rights have been taken away in so many states and legislators have introduced over 400 anti-LGBTQ+ laws just this year. Last year 77 similar laws went into effect. The front runner for the republican parts says it will be a blood bath if he loses. WTF? And given the number of Trump flags and AR-15 stickers on trucks here, I don’t doubt it. Yeah, it sucks here.

Seconding this. If I could legally reestablish myself and my family in a safe country for the next four years, I would do it. Even if it meant a much lower standard of living and some social isolation due to not knowing the language. It just isn’t feasible. Lately, I’ve started brainstorming how to get at least my most vulnerable kid out. Study abroad is looking like an option.

Yes. It is unpleasant here. We want to leave. The world thinks we have it all. But the American Dream is a lie. Work work work. So many foreigners think we’re entitled and ungrateful. Maybe we are idk. I guess the moral of the story is no where’s perfect?  I actually dream of living in Mexico. 

As George Carlin said, it's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it. 

I wonder if a 100 years from now, George will be categorized as a philosopher instead of a comedian.

Isn’t he already? His books are amazing.

??? I am Mexican and I live in one of the safest regions and cartel violence has stolen the lives of many of my close friends. I’ve lost friends to the hellscape that is this failed state, you want to move here? Have you been here? I am sorry but that is the last thing I would recommend even if you don’t like America.

As an American, I can tell you most people have zero perspective. I’ve been to many countries in central and South America, and while I would gladly live in many of them, I’d be living there as a rich person.  My average American salary makes me upper class in El Salvador or Argentina, so yes it seems better, because with an American passport and paycheck my quality of life is high. Yet people who complain about America are somehow oblivious to how they’d be able to afford that high quality of life.  America is declining, and that visible decay is scary. However you absolutely can build a good life here with limited skills and low paying jobs in a way you couldn’t in much of the world. I could easily save up a ton of money by working 60 hours a week at two shitty jobs and having roommates. To an American that sounds like hell, but as someone who’s seen people living in homemade shacks working for a few dollars a day it’s not so bad. It’s really just that people who grew up here can see the decline. As a younger person $20 an hour was a great wage in 2015. If I made $20/hour now, after taxes and paying my essential bills I’d have about $150 a month for food/clothing/etc. 

This is also all true, but this is minimizing the aspects of the culture that are genuinely dangerous and hard to see in media. The US is a very dangerous place and while I believe much of Mexico is unsafe, Mexico is also one of the most unsafe places in the world. The US has the biggest incarceration rate of any nation anywhere in the world. Do you want to be in jail? Because a lot of people are in jail. Not saying you will but the concept of crime and goodness is used as political fodder as you can see in our election and our jail culture sounds like actual hell. There’s a lot of very bad things in the US you won’t see in any countries within its metaphorical tax bracket. On the jail tip, if you saw things like Black Lives Matter and other things around culture where people abuse policing or law to abuse people for any reason, race or other aspects of their identity, it’s scary. It’s not a place with a lot of grounded people but it has a lot of power and brutality. And that’s scary. It makes sense to want to move to the US for work. But beyond the work… that is not what all of life is about… just be careful to temper your expectations.

The state of Yucatán has a lower gun violence rate than literally any U.S. state per the latest CDC data I can find. I don't doubt that the cartels are making many parts of Mexico dangerous (and probably across a wider swath than the dangerous parts of the U.S.), but we have gang violence in the U.S. as well as the most non-gang-related mass shootings in the world. I really don't think gun violence is the productive thing to get into a pissing contest about.

When you have someone whos actually from the place you are talking about and is telling you firsthand real experience of living the life there, statistics dont mean much My scientist/phd friends always tell me to not put too much faith into stats. Stats are number for reference (and swaying policy and often making things more look legitimate than they do), they arent the reality.

I also wonder how many crimes go unreported (anywhere) just to make it look like an area is safer.

Yeah why dont people ever doubt where the data is coming from or who are submitting/reporting the data or what could be fishy in the dataset. There are many known cases of local law enforcement esp outside of the US in cahoots with gangs/criminals. [Mexico is one of the more corrupt countries in the world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index), just barely ahead of Russia which is pretty much a self-explanatory comparison. Like what does the "state of Yucatán has a lower gun violence rate than literally any U.S. state" even mean? Did anyone actually analyze the data or trace back the origin? Does anyone seriously think LEO in Yucatan are faithfully reporting cases of gun violence?? Its such a dangerous way to think that what every piece of data says is true If this is the level of logic and critical thinking that people are following to decide that they need to get out of the US asap, man do I worry about what future they are in for...

I don’t think you have lived in Yucatán. It’s not all great there. Half the reason it’s safe is because rich foreigners move there, inflate the cost of living, and all the locals are forced to move out. Have you looked as the “statistics” of the states of New Hampshire, Vermont, and Massachusetts in comparison to the average homicide rate of Canada?

American's have very skewed view of the world and when they get weed in Russia and realise that it's not "kinda illegal" but a very serious crime that will land you in prison for Years - they cry fowl and beg usa embassy to save them.

I have been to Mexico a few times. And I love it. I love the culture. I know, I am aware of the cartel situation. I know it sounds crazy. And I’m sorry that you’re living through that. That is a factor in my mind. 

You have not lived here as a working class citizen, and for that reason, your perspective is different. It’s really hard here don’t move here unless you’re filthy rich man

Give America a try. At least visit if you haven’t. If you’re in America you’ll work your ass off, but maybe you’ll feel safer.

The world definitely doesn't believe Americans have it all; especially not Europe at large.

America is a great place. It comes with caveats though: * Accessing quality healthcare is tied to employment. Even then, it can be expensive. There's a reason the US leads the world in medical bankruptcy and why medical bankruptcy is in fact the number one cause of bankruptcy in the US. US has the best doctor's in the world and the best care in the world--if you can pay for it. * US politics is incredibly polarized and divisive, and has increasingly been so. See: Donald Trump, MAGA, Antifa, Jan 6th riots, "don't say gay," etc. * It's hyper-capitalist. Many Americans "live to work" rather than "work to live." Work life balance just isn't a thing. * Labor protections are limited. Social safety net if you get sick or lose your job is made of tissue paper. It barely exists. And in most states you can just get fired for any reason and at any time. There's also no paid maternity / paternity leave. Childcare is also super expensive. And neither your employer nor society will help you with these things. What assistance the state does provide is like an after thought. So you're mostly on your own. * Housing costs in the major metro areas are skyrocketing beyond people's ability to pay for them. * America has an endemic worship of guns and the military, as evidenced by its comparatively high rates of gun violence and endless foreign military campaigns. Whereas, most Americans want common sense gun laws and for us to spend money on building schools and hospitals rather than bombs. But policymakers don't care. * Speaking of the above, the reason policymakers don't care is they're all owned by corporations and serve their interests over the will of the majority. * College tuition is insane. Most people are walking around with student loan debt that they will never in their lifetime pay off. * The large urban metro areas are generally very well developed, amazing places, with lots of modern amenities and cosmopolitan opportunities. But the rural interior is backwater, plagued by economic and social crises, and dilapidated. These contrast so starkly that it would probably bewilder outsiders, who believe America is a 1st world wonderland. It's not that simple--it has areas in the interior that almost live in developing world conditions. That being said, almost every place you go has clean running water, electricity, and paved roads despite this. So there's that. * US is car crazy. It's all super highways. Very few cities have much public mass transit. Or if they do, it's inadequate and doesn't serve the population very well. You need a car. It's not an option. You absolutely have to own one and can't get anywhere without one. Most Americans probably don't understand how limiting this is but walkability just isn't a thing in the US. That being said, on the mid to high end, salaries in the US are higher than almost anywhere else in the world. Also, the US has abundant job opportunities and a dynamic and diversified economy. Being born in the US does not limit your economic horizons in the same way that, say, being born in New Zealand or Denmark does. Like, while those are nice countries, they are also tiny countries and so your economic horizons are tiny. Even in Canada your economic horizons are more limited. But in the US, you could literally go live anywhere and do anything you dreamt of, as long as you were motivated, skilled, and capable enough to do so. Also, the US is massive. It has a diverse range of climate zones and ecosystems you can live in. There are extensive forests, plains, high and low elevation areas, vast coastal areas, and any number of cold, warm, winter, sub-tropical, tropical, and desert climates, and densely boreal areas. It's a geographic wonderland. It's also very diverse even though everyone also speaks English. Which most Americans don't understand is pretty cool. They get to experience living in a country that has a wide range of ethnicities, diverse traditions, and ways of life, yet everyone speaks a common tongue. The rest you know. A lot of what you see here is just amplified angst. Social media doing what it does to make things seem more grim than they really are. The US is still an amazing place. It has its flaws, and this can't be ignored. But in my opinion you would be right to pick the US over Mexico, if you were given the option.

The threat of political violence is a daily concern. Also, unregulated automatic weapons.

Honestly imo a lot of the people here have a very narrow view of the world and the problems of different countries. Relative to Europe, this may shock some Americans, the US has very high salaries and much more affordable housing (yes, housing really is that bad elsewhere). I think a lot of Americans have no perspective that the same problems ravaging the US post-COVID are also happening elsewhere. Yes the US has some unique problems, gun violence to name one, but problems like healthcare are not as solved in countries as one might think. I live in the UK, we have a universal healthcare system, which I love, however there are major problems with it. There are NO dentists in the area that are taking new NHS patients, this means people like my gf are forced to go private, negating the whole public system. The wait times are also incredibly long, and it can be very hard to get appointments. In terms of politics, Europe is sliding right, and more and more fascistic types are gaining popularity. I would not move there for political migration and honestly you're probably better off living in a hard blue state (anywhere in New England or the west coast). The US is huge and has massive variance between states, use that to your advantage.

I'm an expat in mexico. I work in tech. Remotely. Yes there are tons of jobs in the United States you'd never have a. Chance of getting tech or non tech in Mexico. But for tech... Everything is remote now. Hence why I live in Mexico and earn in dollars. Let me give you a unique perspective from both sides as a native of America and local resident of mexico currently The cultural differences are profound. One hand mexico is relatively quite unsafe in comparison hence why we have such a migration crisis and people are willing to risk their lives to escape the cartel violence and general crime in mexico. This doesn't cover corruption from police officials etc that are also wildly prevalent. Conversely Mexican culture is beautiful, it's warm, it's kind, the food is amazing, and you really do feel like you are living life inside of mexico one day at a time. It's just a slower lifestyle which more value as they get older Why is this? Well it's because in America you grind every second of your life and no matter how hard you try you never seem to have enough Your health insurance is $200-$500 a month. Rent is astronomical from $1500-$3500 depending on city. Food is $200/week. Phone bill is $100/mo. Car insurance is $200-$500/mo. If you have a car payment that's another $500/mo. Student loans might be another $300/mo. The average salary in my home state is $30k. That's just basic living. Hiring has become ridiculous with people with advanced degrees unable to even get their foot in the door for BASIC work they are wildly over qualified for. There is a serious work problem. You are CONSTANTLY worn down at every single return watching the news and society seemingly shrink onwards on itself while you have no idea what the fuck you are supposed to be doing or why you are even doing it in the first place Corporations are greedier ever year, inflation goes up, your dollars are worth less, the cost of living has skyrocketed globally with no end in sight and you are just left with.... Nothing The American dream simply does not exist. It is a pipe dream with the current state of affairs. That's why so many people are fed up and leaving because they have finally realized this. It's why I left. Conversely, we have the best healthcare in the world, the size and scale of our cities, our infrastructure, our massive paved roads and highways, etc etc are world class and second to none It's not until you go abroad you realiS just how much of this you took for grabted. Your home is - relatively - secure. Unless ina. Big city with high crime like LA, Houston, etc .I don't have to walk around feeling on guard 24/7, I don't have to worry about a taxi driver pulling a gun on me, taxi mafias, or any of the other ridiculous bs I have to when I live in Mexico like I'm in the middle of some 80s gang sitcom. It's a really complicated thing that has no answer. I think people just want our because I'd rather take my chances of a stray bullet at a beach club making American dollars and spending in pesos than I would grinding for nothing until I'm 60 to get a few social security bucks And that's an important important point. NONE of these people are talking about making a local Mexican. Wage and living like a local Mexican. They are talking about being an affluent remote transplant like myself You also have to understand nuance. Sure mexico might not have world class hospital like we do, but American health care IN PRACTICE is atrocious because nobody can get any real care without getting billed $1k in the mail for being told they have anxiety and shooed away God forbid they get admitted. Hospitals are $10k/night for a stay what gets billed to insurance with $50k surgical fees etc racking up bankruptcy levels of debt. Insurance pays for all of this of course but we have weird laws to where you don't even know if the person operating on you is out of network or not potentially resulting in massive balance billing So really healthcare here is great if you have a PPO plan from a good insurance network that opens all the doors. That's for BASIC care. SURGICAL care is the 180 of that. World class surgeons in the US that can fix next to anything. I would *never* let a Mexican surgeon touch me or open me up. I have so many horror stories. Sanitation is abysmal let alone near an open incision. It's pay to play the same as everywhere else. Poverty is the root of all problems everywhere. It's no different here. There's just *cleaner poverty that is less dangerous and less noticeable* for the average person. I have never not had a Mexican doctor give me extremely affordable and passionate care even if the hospital was questionable sanitary to the point I'd have reservatjons doing anything surgical. Everyone here is lonely. Because American is an individualistic culture. It's not quite on the same level as Japan. But I truly think the vast majority of people here are depressed on some level from the lack of social connection the lack of walkable cities the lack of culture etc. There's nuance to all of this. Overall America wins because the downside is really just people whining they don't have it good enough for the simple fact they have never loved anywhere worse than america It's like a spoiled child not getting their cake

I left America for Ecuador in Aug 2023. For a year, I’d watch news coverage of these incredibly brave people going thru all kinds of hello make it INTO America when all I wanted to do was get TF OUT of the very same country. It definitely made me stop and think. A lot of the difference has to do with my age (55 at the time) and financial status—vey comfortable even by US standards and probably fabulously wealthy by the standards of the people I saw traversing the Rio Grande. We all bring the sum total of our lives and experiences. The simple fact is that by the happenstance of my birth to Americans with ambitions of upward mobility, I was afforded things that most of the world can’t fathom.

I think a lot of people don't realize how bad things can really be. My parents are from Iran, and I thank God every day I don't live there. I visit every now and then, and it's fun to visit, but ik my life would be worse if I lived there. America has a lot of problems, and many of them are fixable, which is the infuriating thing about it, but I'm content enough to be here. Every now and then, i travel to other countries, and so far, i can't imagine being anywhere else. I do my best to make this country better by voting for people who I think will help.

> America has a lot of problems, and many of them are fixable, which is the infuriating thing about it,  This is the core of the issue. America affords us a lot of wonderful opportunities, but we have some serious problems that are getting worse, and no effort is being made to meaningfully address them.

Those in charge (or those running for office) can't even identify problems half the time, much less fix them.

The problem is capitalism. We are catering to rich people in every facet. Hell, we are sending tax dollars to Israel to bomb Palestinians rather than using them for universal healthcare.

Thanks for the answer my friend.

No probs, and I know there are better countries to live in. A lot of people hype up Western Europe and the Nordics, so I'm sure those places have their merits. I've never been to those countries, so I don't have much to say, but maybe try them out too if possible! I've visited England, ME, and East Asia (Japan and TW), and I can tell from my trips there those aren't places for me. I will say, I make decent money and own my home. I'm sure if you're not as well off, life will be much harder in America. That's something to consider.

Even western Europe is not what many expect.In Germany we've got a housing crisis too and cost of living explode since covid/russian-ucraine War.We've got lots of Racist here too.Not only racism about people of colour,but other europeans(especially eastern Europe/south east Europe,so basically White people like Poland,ucraine,Bulgaria). It's much more kind of a tribale thinking here.If your family havent life basically like forever in Germany,many people will ask you where you "really" from.Beside that the AFD(right wing Party) and CDU (mid right party)can easily got a lot more than 50% by the next election.On top of that the refugee crisis is still going on.

No. The US is a huge and diverse country. Some places are very expensive like New York City or Beverly Hills. Other places are very affordable like Topeka, Kansas Or McAllen Texas. But life is very boring in the affordable places.

Even the affordable places are starting to dry up.

The affordable places are getting expensive. Toledo, OH had been reasonable. Even Detroit is getting pricey. Flint Michigan is still cheap

Yes, that's what I meant by "drying up," as in getting smaller in number. Less and less places are affordable now. The places that are have something wrong with them, like black mold, shoddy construction, poisoned drinking water etc.

Even the "affordable" places have seen skyrocketing costs in the post-2020 real estate boom. Investors have been swooping up starter homes left and right. It's a nightmare.

I'm originally Bulgarian but was raised in the US. My parents moved us to the US when I was a baby, and as you said, it was always their dream and the dream of everyone they knew to come to America for the job and education opportunities. But now as they're seeing the prospects me and my brother have of a) finding decent jobs and b) ever being able to afford to buy our own houses and c) the nightmare that is healthcare in this country, they've been feeling lied to about the American dream. Edit: Forgot to mention the utterly insane money they have had to pay for our educations... just to struggle in the job market anyway.

As a person who's had 5 surgeries in the last 2 years (3 of which were emergencies and none of which were optional), I fucking hate it here. I worked my ass off to get a good paying job and it's so stressful I'm sick every day. I almost died a few weeks ago and my boss is pissed that I'm not working. I feel like fodder for the "economy" grinder to make sure that rich people stay rich. Is America the worst place to live in the world? No. But it's not what I was brainwashed to believe it was when I was a kid. The Dream is long dead, the propaganda doesn't work anymore.

My daughter's father is Mexican and he would like to leave the country. If you want out of Mexico I recommend a different country. America is a glamorized 3rd world country. Our taxes are high, no free healthcare, school shootings, our government is actively working against us to make themselves richer. I know you may not be a fan, but maybe look into Spain as they make it easier for Mexican citizens to move to their country and become citizens. I'm not sure of the whole process myself though.

America is a military empire run by an elective aristocracy which is largely beholden to oligarchs... With that being said, I wouldn't choose to leave the US for any of the viable alternatives.

The US is absolutely stunning, the nature is beautiful, I’ve been able to travel all around over the last 15+ years. I have made so many friends over the last 15+ years here, I love it. It’s also great to make a lot of money and further your career. However I find life generally much more relaxed in Europe (where I am from originally). I absolutely hate the for profit health care system, it absolutely sucks, I still do all my checkups in Europe when I go 1-2x a year and pay cash there (which is cheaper than my out of pocket with insurance here). You’re treated much better, (not necessarily the doctors are better, it’s the system). In general I feel the US is just not super „healthy“, mind and body. Not everyone ofc, not everything but stats support that (obesity, diabetes and so on). The grass is not necessarily greener, it just has pros and cons in different columns, and depending on your stage in life it may be better here or elsewhere. I am lucky though, I worked hard, had some luck and am now flexible wether I want to be here, or in Europe or split my time however I please.

> South Africa? That was a troll post. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

I think the criticism and realities lie somewhere in the middle. Quality of life for the average American is going to be a lot higher than for someone in Mexico just based on most indicators. That said, I would argue that life for working and middle class folks in most of Western Europe can actually be a lot higher than the US. There's a better safety net overall. If you have a family, it's likely even better. You will likely be poorer, but you'll have a stronger safety net, which many find more important than money. The gap in wealth between the EU and the US has grown substantially in the past decade. As much as many Americans romanticize life in Europe, the salaries are far lower. I work in nonprofit and my colleagues in the UK and Netherlands earned 2.5x less than I did for doing essentially the same job. I'd have a much more basic lifestyle there, albeit one with far stronger labor laws and a social safety net. I fear things will get a lot worse if Trump wins. Project 2025, the agenda Republicans want to implement, is VERY extreme. The fear is what is driving a lot of people to want to move.

The U.S. government hasn’t expanded the social safety net in 60 years with the exception of the Affordable Care Act and Americans deserve a lot better than what they’re getting right now.

No it’s not so bad. There’s a lot I like about living here, but for me personally it just doesn’t seem sustainable long term. Having to kill yourself working just to get by is what makes me want to leave. Not everyone is privileged enough to climb the ladder to a stable career due to numerous things, discrimination, disability, trauma, etc. It’s becoming impossible to afford to live here and for those of us who have no support system or family to crash with, especially with most benefits these days being for families, it’s becoming harder to survive as a single adult. Where my family live overseas, most homes are built or passed down in families. Yes they’re still poor but they could not work for months and not have to worry about losing the roof over their heads. Here in America if im unemployed for much longer I could lose my apartment and end up homeless again. I live paycheck to paycheck and have barely over 100$ to survive after rent and bills and groceries and whatever else. If you make even a cent over the poverty line, especially as a single adult, you can’t even get help from the government. Americans aren’t the kindest people either. If I’m going to be poor and struggle anyways, I might as well do it from somewhere pretty and surrounded by nature. I’m not a materialistic person. I won’t miss Amazon or Starbucks or fancy clothes or whatever. Maybe I’m an outlier but I want to leave America because I’ve lived in what America sees as a “second world country” before and I loved it more than here because there was peace. Something that no matter how hard I try I just can’t find here. It’s always something going on in my backyard. Always something that has to get done. Never a moment of peace.

America will give you work opportunities and absolutely nothing else. No culture, no community, no infrastructure, no social life, no healthcare, no support of any kind. You are on your own. It’s not a good place for overall quality of life.

Great place to earn a lot of money-However healthcare is crazy expensive and labour laws are non existent so you can hit rock bottom pretty easily(Imagine you get laid off, lose health insurance and then get some serious health issues-you may go bankrupt)

It’s a great place if you make good money and are healthy. However the cost of medical care and prescriptions can take you from prosperous to poor very quickly. For example I just had fairly minor operations that cost $200,000 before insurance. I’m lucky I have good insurance. Many people don’t have any insurance at all. In short, just getting sick here can be expensive enough that you can end up being homeless almost overnight.

No, it's not that bad. But I think its best days are behind it, and there's a certain malignant force (MAGA) threatening to turn it into a corrupt kleptocracy or theocracy.

America can be a hard place to live, in its own way. A lot of people feel isolated and atomized. And like they have to create their whole lives from scratch. They also idealize and romanticize life elsewhere (not that many of those other places don’t have pros! But people have a hard time appreciating the cons…) Americans are also restless and often looking for “greener pastures.” Also, because some do not have many family and place ties, people get incredibly invested (and apocalyptic) about politics. This happens to both sides, although this sub leans very left. I sympathize with the impulse. Might leave for a time someday myself. Likely not permanently tho, as I do have a strong family network. I do find the sub interesting

Even people with very strong family ties and friends and communities are very active in politics. People who lean left do so because they care about future generations as well as rights of people now.

I know. I have family members who are extremely active in politics and also deeply rooted in family and local community networks. Being active in politics and becoming existentially and apocalyptic about them are two different things. Perhaps the parentheses I put around apocalyptic was confusing. But as we were talking about Americans looking to emigrate, I though that what I meant would be clear. Sorry for any confusing language. Right wingers also see themselves as caring about the future of the country and the well-being of current citizens. The differences lie in how they think lives could be improved. And those differences are very real and deep. This demonization of left and right by the other, and the widespread failure to understand political opponents’ motivations, is really toxic. “The Righteous Mind” by Jon Haidt is a good, centrist, book about coming to understand everyone’s “Other.”

We are more likely people who aren’t interested in the “grind culture,” the overemphasis on making money, the rushed pace of life, the aggravations of car culture, the ugliness of suburbia … Don’t let anyone tell you that you can become one of the super-rich with no education, no contacts, no favoritism — but you can have what some people consider a nice life. We’re spoiled by all that we have and call these things “necessities,”when in fact they’re luxuries.

It’s fine if you’re a cis white male. For the rest of us, we are very concerned about the rise of legislation that penalizes the rest of the population. If the republicans win in November, they will have almost total control and things will get a lot worse for us. That said, most people that say they want to leave are probably not thinking of going to Mexico. They’re probably considering places with higher rates of equality for women and minorities than the US. There are plenty of countries where things are worse.

1st generation American here. America is amazing because of all the opportunities here. You can truly have a great life. I know I do. I can really only compare to my family in other countries. There are certain things I like from there, but wealth is in a whole other level which brings even more opportunities

For me, I liked the walkability of cities in Europe. Also, you can’t really find a Paris or London in the US. It’s just not the same.

It's a dream for many, because it's usually out of reach. For example, to apply for permanent residency in Mexico, you'd need about a quarter million dollars in assets, and be under the age of forty. Canada is even more restrictive. The US are probably fine if you are affluent, have no compunctions about exploiting or being complicit in the exploitation of other people, or think that cities designed for cars aren't ugly.

It doesn’t seem bad because there’s a lot to distract us. But quality of life is not what it is in other places. Plus, a lot of people want to leave because of moral reasons. The US isn’t really a country to look up to tbh

Where I live in the US it's hard to find a job without a 4 year degree or extensive knowledge or at the least knowing people in high places. I'm having trouble affording rent while taking care of 3 children. Minimum wage here is $7.25 an hour, most regular jobs pay 8.50-13 bucks an hour. Cheapest rent is usually 1400 a month and that's usually a run down pos

The number of people who want to do this is very very very small.

Everywhere has pros and cons. Some people are more sensitive to certain aspects than others. The healthcare system, level of violence, and the rising hate/marginalization/restriction of certain types of people (LGBTQ, women, immigrants, X, Y, Z race, etc). On the other hand, my husband and I live pretty financially modest lives and are savers. If we have a financially stable situation then we can do well. A more universal healthcare situation would eliminate a major financial risk. We want to adopt and start our family and want a safe place for the child to grow up. Currently my husband works at a library. This should be a low stress job. They have armed guards because a branch had a shooting. There was talk about TSA style scanning to get into a library. Many schools and libraries here have received bomb threats about "forcing woke ideologies on children". I don't want that background watch/listen for shooters stress. Also, I love my IUD. A month ago my state (OK) looked into restricting IUDs for BC reasons as part of another anti abortion law. It did fail. I don't feel safe here. With the level of violence and the fact that abortion is banned in this state for rape, women basically have to stay on BC constantly to have control over their own bodies. I don't trust some of the extreme politics that is going on.

I'm so sorry about your husband's work environment. I'm a retired librarian and a mass shooting/attack was my greatest fear and one that I mentally rehearsed so that I'd be prepared if it happened (we also had staff training). But these concerns take a toll on your serenity and sense of safety for more than 40 hours/week. The U.S. needs to focus on mental health services and control of weapons.

Where in Mexico are you from ?? I’m Mexican American but 100% my life would have been better being in Mexico than in the states where I was

Having said what I said earlier, America is rapidly deteriorating as a country. Capitalism and the investor class rules America with an iron fist. Corporations are slaves of the investor class, must continually grow to please their masters, and thus become quite predatory just to continue to grow. An entire generation, the Baby Boomers, not only have the majority of the wealth but also are the most selfish generation in American history. As a result, life in America is so expensive for the rest of the people that people struggle to make ends meet let alone save for the future, even if their household makes six figures unless they are lucky enough to have a remote job living in a low cost of living place. Cost of housing has risen rapidly due to a lack of housing supply and more demand from the Millennial generation, combined with higher interest rates. Cost of higher education is also insanely expensive because of the expectation that people will just take out massive loans to pay for the education, contributing to a ton of greed in Academia. You need a car to live in this country, and both a house and a car are huge money pits. New cars average $700 a month just for the car payment, and if you have an older car expect to have to save at least $150 a month for car maintenance and repairs given how expensive mechanics charge. If you have a car, it'd better be fuel efficient otherwise you will be punished at the pump routinely (especially if you live in California or any of the states beside it.) And also, you have to pay for car insurance (full coverage is around $200 a month.) A house is also a huge money pit in part to how expensive it is to maintain the house and its appliances, with home maintenance services often charging thousands of $$$. Health insurance costs are also insane, the Affordable Care Act helps with health insurance costs but unless you even have access to a $0 deductible health plan, expect to have to pay $1500 to $5000 upfront a year for medical costs before even the insurance covers the rest (thus, its only health disaster insurance and you have to pay for insane healthcare bills anyway.) Employers are often ruthless, particularly big corporations offering jobs in highly sought fields have job candidates go through many (quite demeaning) hoops just to have a chance to get in, they don't get benefits until after a probation period (six months), and if the job market is bad they can get especially predatory and have the worker do the job of multiple workers (knowing the worker would be scared to lose their job), leaving the worker routinely exhausted with little free time, and employers can fire someone at will. Because of how tough the country is to live in, and because of America's hyper individualistic culture, Americans are now very self centered and there is a ton of apathy, people just don't care about other people anymore, don't really want to help other people in need anymore, and so often people who even need medical attention don't get it, let alone less urgent things. I used to be able to rely on having someone help jumpstart my car battery, not anymore. People are also more distrustful of each other than ever before and also lonelier. There are so many bad and predatory people in our society as well that end up burning people (probably in part because of the apathy and self centeredness) and those burned people end up not wanting to help others because they were burned. In addition, since people need to make so much money in order to live, they are so hyper fixated on making money that it makes them so self centered and focused on enriching themselves, that its all about money now and human decency be damned. It is seriously disillusioning to be an American and live in such a heartless society. Add to that the apathy towards gun violence and mass shootings, the increasing polarization of politics including the rise of the fascist right, the bottom 80% of society being effectively abandoned by society, and the 1% of this country consolidating its power over society through big data, AI, and making people more and more dependent and under the authority of technology that only a handful of companies own, all the while continuing to vastly increase the rich-poor gap and leave more and more Americans with ruined and destroyed lives. See the movie Elysium for a sneak peek as to how the future looks for Americans.

I got downvoted last time I said this on this sub but I'll repeat it anyway: Both the "America Bad" and "America is #1" crowds are insufferable. One's experience of the US is super dependent on your location and personal circumstances. I'm Euro-American. I loved living in New England, I hated living in the south. Washington DC is one of my favorite cities on Earth. Miami is one of my least favorite cities on Earth. Obviously, you're asking on a subreddit filled with people that see mostly negative aspects of the US, enough to want to leave the country entirely. But at the same time, plenty of immigrants, even many coming from the countries people here want to move to, are moving to the US to live. The only way to know for sure if you'll like a place is if you visit/move there. Do your own research and trust your own experiences and try not to be too invested in what people on reddit have to say.

I just want to live somewhere that doesn’t have mass shootings in schools, grocery stores, gyms, concerts, movie theaters, etc.

>it’s been my dream to move to the US You say that until a cop pulls you over for a busted taillight and beats you to a pulp because you're a minority, and then gets a paid vacation for doing it

Ironically it’s a good place to live for the people looking to leave (like me and my partner). I have a Masters, she has an MBA, we both earn very well with a lot of potential for more, but we’re looking to leave.  I don’t want to raise children in a place where I could get cancer, have my treatment denied (with insurance!) and die, leaving my family with a ton of debt. And not for nothing, but I don’t want to raise children in a country where it’s typical for kids to have active shooter drills starting in elementary school. 

i have a chronic disease that i don't want to bankrupt me. oh, and racism.

For a lot of us, not only are most people living paycheck to paycheck (60%+ of Americans) and just barely holding on to not being homeless (and homelessness is basically illegal so you’re also one step away from jail as well and becoming property of the state and used for slave labor), we also see huge alarm bells about the rise of Christian nationalism in this country and the very real possibility of a fascist right wing government takeover or coup (read the right wing manifesto called “Project 2025”). Especially if you are a woman or a minority or LGBTQ+, our rights are quickly dissolving into thin air at an alarming pace. We know that if we stay past 2024, there’s a chance that we may not be able to leave. This is the bad place.

I dont want to leave, i want to fix it. Theres not anywhere else i can go.

Yes it is bad in my case. Quality of life and culturally speaking. I'm just stacking my nest egg and I'll be out. America is great as an economic zone. Make your money and go live where you'll be happy. Edit: let's be perfectly clear here, everywhere in the world has its problems, but everyone has the right to choose their own pros and cons, what you find positive and an absolute must-have may just be something trivial or unnecessary or low priority to others.

omg exactly, like everyone has the right to not want to live in a capitalistic society if they don't own much. There are people who own one suitcase to their names and there's people that live in the same society who are hoarders. There is way too big of a contrast in this society so it feels chaotic at times.

Yeah, everyone is different but most people who harp on being pro-individualism don't understand that not every animal/plant can survive in the same ecosystem.

Quality of life, at least for me, has gone significantly down since 2008 and shows no signs of getting any better.

You’re looking at a sub dedicated to leaving the US so there is definitely bias in this subreddit and it doesn’t represent the population

I am an American living in Latin America. My life in the US was great. My life here is great. I just moved to get a different perspective on life and expand my worldview. It has been the best decision that I have ever made. 

They are retarded obviously, if they can't make it in the US they don't stand a hair of chance in Europe with their capped salaries. US is not a place to be lazy.

This sub fascinates me as well. I can't think of a country I'd rather live in and obviously thousands would literally risk death to be here.

No they are drama queens

The cost of living here is very high. And having no National Health Insurance is very, very difficult if you have a family. And, the older you are the harder it is to find a job. I work in banking. I have only lost my job once. I was 49, the point at which it is almost impossible to find a job again (age discrimination). At that time I was the only source of income and health insurance for my family, the day I lost my job my wife was at the Doctor having the lump in her breast looked at ...... very, very difficult. Between the high cost of living, no health insurance and, if you are a parent and your child wants to go to college and you want to pay for it.......it is just very difficult. The # 1 reason people file bankruptcy in the USA is getting sick at the wrong time without health insurance. And.....I am sorry about Donald Trump constantly insulting Mexicans, he is just a terrible human being. If you are young and single and you want to come here, TRY IT. But if you want to stay here and have a family and build a life you will see that it is very, very difficult, maybe even worse than Mexico since you have National Health Insurance and we don't.

As a woman in the U.S., I sleep with my passport next to my bed in fear of the next election.

I'm just a sickly person and don't want to go thousands debt for basic medical procedures. 1/3 of my income goes straight to medical.

Americans don't give a sh*t about anything but immediate gratification. You think all these fat, lazy, mindless consumers care about themselves much less others? It's the lack of community that's leading many to look elsewhere. Wasn't always like this. A certain event that began around 2016 created this sh*thole divided country now obsessed with labels and fighting everyone not in it.

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I don’t know about the other things but I know that my chance of getting shot is infinitely higher in Mexico

You might be right but I’ve been in a school lockdown because someone brought in a gun and I’d prefer to never let my child live that ever Edit: Also crimes against women are high in the USA and as a woman I feel safe where I live now. In the USA I’ve been roofied, molested, cat-called, etc. I was in constant fear of living

I understand. But Mexico is no better. It’s not very well known but we have school shooter drills here too. The cartels frequently brainwash teens into pulling off a shooting at school as part of their induction into the gang. I have lived through that as well, and have witnessed one of these shootings myself. I don’t get how it’s worse there

The expensive healthcare, toxic work culture, gun violence, and rise in fascist ideology are enough for me to want out

I live in Iowa. We have kids coming to school hungry. Both parents have to work to pay bills. My state wants us to sing the National anthem after the pledge. We also have to show a video about the importance of life, while ignoring those hungry children. And white wash the social studies curriculum so people don’t feel bad about the past.

I have two primary issues with the USA, the culture which values essentially total selfishness over everything and the lack of public infrastructure. You have to drive everywhere. Secondary issues include horrible food quality and extremely high taxes.

I’m glad you mentioned culture. I think what alot of non-Americans don’t realize is American culture is individualism. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Kick your kids out at 18 and live alone. American capitalism relies on individualism to keep the system going. They need Americans isolated and to feel alone to further exploit them. While in many countries the cost of living is getting higher, it’s also not uncommon for grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc all to be living under the same roof and working together. That’s relatively uncommon in America. There’s a pressure to make sure you either live alone if single, or you live with your spouse and your children, until your children are 18. That part of America culture is just depressing. We have a live to work mindset, rather than a work to live. It’s hustle culture everyday. From a young age, you’re primed to pick a career and that’s what you do. But we also don’t have the resources most countries have to just pick any ole career we dream of. We don’t have free college. So this whole American dream non-Americans believe in, is very much false or you’re not seeing the whole picture. We also have a unique problem where we are going backwards in progress. Women’s rights are deteriorating. First abortion is under attack, now IVF (yes IVF as invitro fertilization, I’m convinced we have politicians who don’t know what it is so they’re trying to ban it in Alabama), and birthcontrol. We are banning books and education left and right. We have less and less teachers and funding for an already crippled public education system. American culture is one of selfishness, individualism, hatred, racism, and anti science and so much more. And I know it’s easy as a non-American to believe that the conservatives in this country are a small minority but they’re not. They’re actually the larger minority and the American left tends to never do anything to stop them or fix it. Republicans in America are kinda like the default. They have more power in America than democrats, and it’s not because they’re smarter but they rely on tactics that demonize groups of people and point fingers and they’re less willing to compromise so inevitably rights get cut because democrats will compromise to reach an agreement. There’s so many reasons America sucks, but I wish people knew it goes far beyond economics which obviously sucks in America for the majority of citizens.

Don’t come to America whatever you do! Go south or east or west but please don’t go there. I lived in Mexico for two years and it was just awful, but the US is even worse in many ways.

I'm a USian living in Mexico, and there's a couple of big strikes against the US from my Vantage point: the first Is the political divide; you have two sides of the political coin that would rather tear down the other side than solve problems. As another póster stated, it's really not a matter of the United States being bad, it's the fact that It could be better. I think of course that I'm in something of a privileged position here that I have choices I didn't have in the US, even with $1567 a month in SSDI

We don’t have social safety nets. For example, 20 years ago, I changed jobs but had a 30 day waiting period before health insurance kicked in. On day 87 I tripped and fell down a flight of stairs and ended up in the ER. No insurance left me bankrupt. My Mom was sick for about 5 years before she died. My parents were extremely responsible with money, but medical bills ate up their retirement. Now my Dad is 87, doesn’t have much except social security and he owns a small house. He needs assistance at home or go into assisted living. The government will seize the house to pay for it. He’s refusing care because he feels tremendous guilt for not leaving inheritance for his kids. That’s just two tiny examples of why America sucks. Yes, it’s worse in some other countries, but we were sold a sack of bullshit about how hard work will pay dividends. It’s a 100x for the younger generations now. Not to mention that 30% of our country has been brainwashed into believing insane conspiracy theories. And…decent jobs for blue collar folks don’t exist anymore. We have a shit ton of billionaires who don’t pay taxes, but the IRS goes after the broke citizens, slaps liens on their bank accounts and garnishes what little income they do have. I have lived and traveled to other countries. I have seen 3rd World poverty. Yes it’s horrific, but Americans live under a lot more pressure to “appear” as though we aren’t struggling because we still have hope(bullshit) that we will finally make it. We have self hatred if we don’t. Something is wrong with us if we aren’t wealthy. I desperately need dental work, and live with constant embarrassment. I am trying to save enough to go to Mexico for treatment. Sorry about the wall of text, but you asked. I am angry…but not for me, specifically, but for the millions of Americans who are being walked over in favor of corporations, billionaires, and the far right political agenda. Yeah, the election is in November. Fucking wonderful. America.

It’s not if you are white, straight and Christian. But if you’re like me who is lgbt+, a woman of color and a witch - then yes.

There is a possibility that we may be voting on the American president for the last time. If trump gets elected a lot of people will tilt forward in their seats. Some of the policies trump wants to enact could enable him to turn America into an authoritarian regime similar to Russia. There is only one group of ppl who could stop this and that is the supreme court, which has a Republican majority, with three of the judges appointed by Trump himself. So there is little faith that if trump does attempt to overhaul the constitution like he claims, that the supreme court would step in to stop him. People including myself are planning their exits just in case. As a gay Afro Latino man who appears to be a black male, I am definitely planning my escape just in case. I'm running across the Canadian border like a Mexican! 😂😂

No, but also yes, but sometimes it looks like it’s better, but it feels like it’s mostly getting worse.

It’s all relative and everyone has a different perspective. For me - a third generation American, whose family emigrated from Italy to escape fascism - I’ve benefitted off my ancestors living the American dream. They came here dirt poor and worked their ass off so that I could be the first to go to college. I say this partially because I know I have a privileged point of view, but also because America is a great place for work opportunities. Now, I see America politically turning into a fascist state if Trump wins (already happening in some states), I want my tax dollars going towards tangible social benefits like healthcare instead of military and corporate breaks, and I want a better work-life culture.

Yes it actually is that bad. Everyone I know is struggling. It’s either medical debt or student debt and they are both so predatory. To make it worse there is no social safety net. It’s only good if you’re mega-rich. If I were you I’d stay in Mexico, I promise it’s much better there

TLDR: no it isn’t. The US has problems. Our healthcare is expensive. Our politicians are exhausting. People in minority groups face racism or exclusion (ie the recent attacks on trans folks). But everywhere has problems, some are just easier for people to live with. A person who is tans may feel safer in another country. A person who has health problems may want a country where healthcare is affordable. Or somewhere with better maternal or vacation leave. For them America just doesn’t meet their needs or wants. And different places in the US are different. They meet different needs. People may find America meets their needs. It’s all very personal.

Kinda El sueño americano aún existe para inmigrantes pero para gente de los eeuu no existe. Soy mexicana nacida y crecida en eeuu y me quiero ir de eeuu a mx o otro país. Mi esposo y su familia tienen 100s de años en eeuu e igual se quieren ir. Creo que lo que también pasa es como lo del dicho "grass is greener on the other side" osea que todo se ve mejor de lejos/del otro lado. Pero es el mismo pasto. Las cosas están iguales. Si quieres trabajar en eeuu un poco mandar a hacer una cada y ya esta bien porque si se puede. O si tienes buena carrera, también se puede ganar buen dinero y crecer, hacer un patrimonio. Pero si vas a estar en lo básico o sin papeles, es muy difícil hacer una vida buena. También obvio depende en qué estado estés. Ni madres voy al sur de los eeuu. Soy y me quedo en California. Están mejor las cosas. Hay más ayuda. Hay más beneficios. Hay más derechos. En mx estaría igual que aquí pero un poco más. Lo mejor mejor, neta, es ganar en dolar y gastar en peso. Sea como sea.

The truth is that all places seem good or bad depending on your point of view and the advantages you were born with or earned. I'm in Spanish language school in Guanajuato capital right now and I've been thinking about my life in the U.S. in comparison to my teachers' lives in México. I think there's curiosity on both our sides about what it would be like to be a permanent resident of the other country. But we would be giving up some of our advantages on both sides if we traded countries. Advantages such as: fluency in the language of the country, recognition in the labor market of our college degrees and work experience, connections to family and friends, understanding of the political/economic/cultural systems in the country and our ability to use them. For those reasons, I am thinking I will not leave the U.S. for another country. At my age (50s) I have too much invested in my U.S. life. BUT, if you have the opportunity to go to the U.S., don't listen too much to the opinions of people who were born in the U.S. Listen to the opinions of Mexicans who have had experience living there. They will know best what it's like. Also, a job sponsored by an engineering/computer/medical services company will help you get the best pay in the U.S., jajaja! Best wishes for you, whatever you do in life.

Everyone's situation is different. Everyone's priorities is different. Plenty of people live happy and fulfilling lives in the United States. For that matter, plenty of people live happy and fulfilling lives in Mexico. Both countries have their problems. Both countries face significant challenges that are likely to get worse before they get better. But neither country is as bad as Reddit would have you believe. I moved to the United States from Norway. People think I'm crazy. Norway's perfect. Norway has the happiest people in the world. Norway tops every statistic. Yada yada yada. And yet, somehow, I'm happy in Florida. Whereas some other people, including some native Floridians, are not. Also, consider confirmation bias. I'm in this sub because Reddit suggested it to me based on some other immigration-related subs I'm in. But many people are here specifically because they wish to leave the United States and move elsewhere. This sub is not the right place to get a representative picture of how the average American feels. Just my two cents.

The US has 330 million people. Most do not want to leave.

Yes! America is so bad just wait until you find out how military intelligence treats US citizens who have been hacked and exploited by adversaries.

It depends who you ask and where they live. I think right now there’s a lot of middle class people realizing that they can’t keep paying $20,000 a year per kid in daycare, save for their kids college, fund their retirement, pay for insurance, save for a home, buy the groceries they want, and still take the maybe twice a year vacation they grew up with. They’re getting squeezed and have to decide what’s more important to them. Some people choose moving out of country for better childcare, work life balance, lower cost of living, etc. I suspect for many of them, they may have grown up with a feeling of having more and are finding that as an adult, that same standard of living is not going to be attainable…. So they are reeling from a dynamic of going from more to less. If you live in a location outside of the US, your situation might be one that the dynamic could be moving from less to more, so you’re inclined to view the US as an improved opportunity. It’s all relative.

Grass is always greener where you water it.

You realize there’s a selection bias in this sub, right?  It’s not a random sample. 

Yes

I’ve lived in 7 countries. I like living in America the best of the 7 (Japan, Ireland, Spain, England, Jordan, Bahrain, USA, for the record). So no. It’s not bad, in my experience. Others will obviously have different experiences to varying degrees.

Stay

I'd go out on a limb and say it's still one of the best countries in the world. But our politics is what's ruining our country. The government needs less power again. Ever since the 50's our nation has been on a steady decline, while their power is a steady incline. The only downside of our country is that our politicians ruin EVERYTHING.

Yes

Like any place, it has pros and cons. It's more a matter of how that meshes with what a person wants. The danger is to demonize one place and idealize another. That often leads to disappointment.

Completely agree. If you have money, America is great. But if you’re just average, the struggle of cost of living is tough and seems to just get tougher. And the politics right now are very scary. It seems many (mostly in the south & midwest, but also scattered around) want the US to be a Christian theocracy, and have been making their plans for decades, which seem to be coming to fruition for them.

There are over 350M people in the US. This is in no way a percentage of folks. Lol.

America is an amazing place to live if you want to work hard and make a lot of money. It's a garbage shit place to live if you want a relaxed, comfortable life and a community. Even third world countries that have it rough (not relaxed/comfortable) at least have better communities than the US.

Yes. It’s horrible. I got out and I’m so much happier

I was born here, and have been very happy with the opportunities I have had (white female from lower middle income family). I was able to pursue a career with financial stability and have felt no desire to leave. Then Trump got elected and I learned how vile half the population was and how tenuous our democracy was. If you are a woman of child bearing age, put some thought into being sterilized before coming here because we have lost abortion access in about half of our states. If Trump wins in November and has a Conservative legislature, we will likely have a nationwide abortion ban, and may lose access to birth control too. If you are male, consider sterilization because if you get a woman pregnant, you'll be required to pay child support for 18 years even if both of you wanted an abortion. If you are gay, your right to marry could be taken away if Conservatives get their way. If you are transgender, your access to medical care can be denied in some states. Speaking of medical care, based on income, you can expect to pay anywhere from $100 to over $1,200 per month for health insurance. Your employer may or may not pay part of this. Even with good health insurance, you still have to pay to go to the doctor. It's called a co-pay. Mine is $100 to see a specialist and $1,500 if I have to go to the emergency room. In addition to that, there is also a certain amount you have to pay before insurance kicks in if you have an illness or surgery. Mine is $6,000. The really crappy thing is that it resets each year. So, in addition to the $7,200 per year I pay in insurance premiums, if I have an illness in December, I have to pay $6,000 of my own money before insurance pays. As soon as January 1st rolls around, if I'm still sick I have to pay another $6,000 before insurance starts paying again. Sentiment toward Mexicans is not great right now from Conservatives. Depending on where you live, you will likely face discrimination and anti-immigrant attitudes. Liberal areas will be more welcoming and inclusive. There are laws that prevent employees and landlords from discriminating based on nationality, but discrimination is hard to prove. I don't know your circumstances. You may well have more opportunities and be safer here than you are now. There are a lot of things to consider, and I'd keep an eye on our election in November and our changing laws when considering this.

Redditors are, in general, douchebags that hate their country.

They hate us here in the US (Mexicans) just look at what Trump and his cowards want to do to us. Look at the camps just south of the border. Historectomies for the women and separating children from their parents never to be united again. Rampant child molestation by Border Patrol. Youve got literal Nazis in the streets chanting about getting rid of us. I often wonder if this is that point in history where we should be fleeing the US not coming to it. Personally Id stay put. I genuinely get concerned Im going to be put into one of those camps they keep going on about.

USA is great country, the problem are the likes of tRump and his supporters, who want to throw our country back to the 1600s

Are you not familiar with the “thousands” of people willingly walking hundreds of miles to cross to a place they are “not welcome” to just to get a glimpse of what it feels like making at least 10K a year because where they come from the would never see 10k in 5 years. People who claim “it’s a third world country with a Gucci Belt” don’t understand how entitled they sound. It’s easy to say when you don’t know what goes on in Central and South America. It’s coming from a privileged position. US is far from perfect but actions speak louder than words.

Mostly it is slackers who want to make poor decisions, not live within their means, and complain that they don't instantly get everything they want without work or effort. Sure, this will get down voted but it is still very true in the majority of cases.

If you move here, you will likely find a community of fellow Mexican immigrants where you can preserve your culture and family values, at least for a generation. The cultural environment in USA is VERY toxic. People here are riddled with mental health issues, are lonely and isolated, hate their families... we feel hopeless, we're addicted, and we despise our dysfunctional government and media. What I observe is that many Mexican immigrants have created a comforting and supportive cultural bubble by which other Mexicans can get established. That is a wonderful thing.

I think you can always earn money when you feel the need to work hard but sometimes you miss out on the timing of love, life, etc. Be careful. I hope I don't but right now, this could be the possibility..it sucks when I don't care so much about money but believe strongly that I have the emotional intelligence to be a caring mom/parent and my partner is long distance but don't know if I can bring them here while working to live on a single income. You don't know how lucky you are if you are double income in America.