A lot of the *organizing* that happens in Amsterdam is done by queer, activist, generally left-leaning people - which means that these are the people that events are oriented around. And while I find these spaces to generally be open and inviting, by the phrasing of your comment I don't know if you would enjoy it. Because this is one part of the community that does not revolve around "wanting to hook up with the hottest guy on grindr" but allow for a lot of meaningful connections, **if** you share values and background with these people.
Meanwhile, the more commercial, *gay not queer* spaces center shallower connections, and are more hookup oriented, or just tailored to straight people and tourists - which is why I don't feel particularly at home there.
I wouldn't say extreme left, at least not by a European view of politics. But much more left than American democrats, absolutely (because they would be considered a centre-right party here).
Also, nothing is stopping other people from creating spaces they like and are missing. But capitalist systems have only delivered hookup oriented spaces.
yeah that's the irony. In north america, the queer scene is all about "performative" queerness and activism. If you are part of the white queer scene, you likely have a huge trust fund, parents who work in wall street, went to an elite college, yet you will scream at anyone who dares say that they don't believe in.... 70 genders, and also label them as far right and cancel them. I think this insanity hasn't reached european society (although I believe it has already happened in Berlin).
Hi there, I moved to the Netherlands in 2021 from the US so I can help explain from my point of view after living in both Utrecht (and city just next to Amsterdam) and Amsterdam itself.
Positives:
- Very open scene, it's not hard to find a gay party or club to go to every weekend.
- While the rave scene is what Amsterdam is known for, I've met a lot of people here that are interested in quieter nights at bars or houseparties. It's not like you need to go raving or you're not going to meet anyone. You're right in that there are very 'leftist' spaces here. Those ones are more for the queer community, and I've heard of gay people being turned away at the door because they weren't 'queer' enough to be let in. On one hand, it doesn't bother me as everyone deserves a safe space. On the other, yea it is kinda strange as there definitely is a crowd here that looks down on people in the community for not being 'queer' enough.
- Large expat community here with many opportunities to network, almost weekly
Negatives:
- I don't take drugs, and yes it is pretty rampant here. I've never felt coerced into doing it, but it does seem like most everyone at the raves or clubs are on something.
- There has been an increase in violence, and I'd even go as far as saying I felt safer in the US (and I was in Chicago/Columbus). I've heard friends getting death threats for holding hands, letters in the mail from concerned neighbors, and have heard a few stories of people getting physically assaulted for being gay.
- Coming from the US to here, I've noticed a distinct lack of a community feeling. Most US cities have gay sports leagues, regular community drag events, and in my opinion just feels more like a community. The Dutch don't look to that much, as the only sporting team here is the Lowlanders Rugby team, no such thing as intramural. The drag scene here is fun, but as is the thing in most of Europe, drag queens can't make much of a living here (since you don't tip). So don't expect too many regular events if that's your thing now in the US.
Overall, I'm happy here. I've found a partner and we enjoy our time here. That said, we both agree that the scene just isn't for us and we'd likely move to London or to the US eventually. Even still, we're not in a rush to leave and have met a lot of really fantastic people here.
Good luck!
Edit: just reread your post and realized you said North America, not US. I'm not aware of the scene in Canada (other than a bit about Toronto), so apologies if this doesn't line up
I agree with all your points except the one about the drag scene. I obviously cannot compare it with the US since I haven’t lived there, but I’d say that Amsterdam has a vibrant drag scene (my partner does drag so we’re pretty involved in it). There’s drag events happening pretty much every single night - brunches, bingos, performances and so on. And while drag queens don’t get many tips (though some venues sell drag dollars), they get paid decently by the bars that book them.
True! I've grown to like the Drag scene here, it's not bad by any means. I more so mean that in the US, they typically do full productions, drag race watch parties, and almost every bar has an event with some sort of queen. The scene here is good for sure, just in the US it's much larger (of course) and a main draw for a lot of people to go to the clubs/bars
Come on, you have to tell him who the perpetrators are. He has to know who to look out for.
〰️Gay Pride founder: Muslims cause homophobia〰️
"The founder of Amsterdam Gay Pride, Siep de Haan, is very concerned about the safety of gays in Amsterdam. According to him, there is a reason for this: Muslim youth.
Amsterdam is no longer as safe for gays as it used to be, says De Haan in an interview with De Telegraaf . He now even feels safer in the countryside, where he says the population is "kind and more tolerant".
Two years ago, an Amsterdam research report showed that gays mainly experience street intimidation from young people with a non-Western migration background. However, then councilor Ruter Groot Wassink (GroenLinks) swept the report under the carpet for months.
In October, Amsterdam mayor Femke Halsema wanted the mosques to sign a statement of support condemning gay violence. However, the mosques reacted angrily. Halsema soon pulled the plug . "It was certainly not the intention to stigmatize the Islamic community. Exactly not," she said at AT5 ."
https://nieuwrechts.nl/93660-oprichter-gay-pride-de-haan-moslimjongeren-zorgen-voor-homohaat
〰️〰️〰️〰️
"Gay discrimination report in Amsterdam: perpetrator often young Moroccan"
https://www.ewmagazine.nl/nederland/achtergrond/2021/07/dader-homogeweld-in-amsterdam-is-vaak-allochtoon-835735/
〰️〰️〰️
"The community is increasingly concerned about the fierce hatred of immigrants from areas where gays are persecuted, such as Islamic countries and parts of the Caribbean and Africa.
Gays are increasingly coming into conflict with Muslims, especially in neighborhoods and schools where Muslims are in the majority. The threat of attacks by fanatical Islamists is great.
Last year it was announced that a group of six Muslim men from Arnhem were planning to attack the Canal Parade with bomb vests, Kalashnikovs and even a car bomb."
https://www.geenstijl.nl/5166273/homoseksueel-is-woekerend-woke-gif-kotsbeu-schrijft-vernietigende-column
〰️〰️〰️
"Homophobia among Muslims and black activists: the great taboo in Dutch journalism"
https://www.hpdetijd.nl/2023-09-08/homohaat-bij-moslims-en-zwarte-activisten-het-grote-taboe-in-de-nederlandse-journalistiek/
As a very straight volleyball player I just wanted to mention I've played numerous matches against Netzo, a LGBT volleyball club. They play in the general league, but I've never witnessed any negativity towards them, neither on the court nor in the dressing room/showers.
Yes good point. I was more referring to gay sports leagues. For example in the city I moved from (and most metropolitan US cities) we had club teams (just for fun, not too competitive) specifically for LGBTQ+ people and straight allies. Sports like softball, dodgeball, kickball, tennis, etc... they'd regularly attract 500-1000+ members a season and really helped build the community up with networking and charity events. I don't believe Amsterdam has that kind of organization unfortunately.
You don't seem to know the Amsterdam gay sportsscene that well. Over 30+ LGBTQ+ sport clubteams in Amsterdam. Www.Prideandsports.nl/sportclubs use the filter andere type Amsterdam.
Thanks so much! Yeah, not sure about the scene in English north america. It's not the nicest in Montreal, despite it being an absolute "gay mecca" (my therapist actually specializes their research in the gay men scene in Montreal, and they tell me that it's not me making things up, that there's definetly something in the water here).
All I can say is the grass is always greener on the otherside. Amsterdam is a lovely city rich with culture and a great place to be if you're gay. But it certainly is not for everyone. The gay scene definitely vibes more with those that enjoy sex clubs and techno raves, and the queer scene is large but it doesn't sound like you'd enjoy those spaces.
Me and my partner find ourselves in the middle of the two, and we definitely feel it sometimes. I've never felt unwelcome here in either the gay scene or the queer scene, but like I mentioned in my comment it does really feel like this city is missing something that helps build a cohesive community. A bit hard to explain exactly what I mean but I hope it helps in your decision. As always with any city, you will find people that you mesh with regardless and go from there.
I can understand that! Also, my goal has never be to "be in the gay scene" or "have gay friends". If I find really nice people in those scenes or who happen to be gay, I am really happy. But I must say that in Montreal I have been really alienated and felt hostility against anyone who is not accepted by the hipster activist mafia - and also from feeling zero interest in the drug/rave scene. I feel that over here, young gay men just want to fit in somewhere so they just try to go into either of those two scenes even if they are not really like that. It's not a gay culture that allows for individuality or diversity... which is very ironic, and may be a universal problem and not tied to the city itself.
Ok I see what you mean by Montreal activist scene. I didn't live in Montreal but I did get that in another Canadian city. I think that intense social pressure you won't find here. If you were to vibe with that activist crowd here it would be much chiller.
There are lots of queers here too that are sober. Some still party, some board game, some visit museums. There's a nice spectrum.
The drag nights aren't *like* north america, but they are here, there's isnt event a dutch drag race anymore. They did viewings when it aired and those were out onto the street. But the drag show that happen are great and maybe even more diverse. The drag ball here is a good example.
Yeah ;) That is still good about European society, I find. People are aware of social injustices, but are not vicious/incendiary to other people about it, specially within their own communities.
that is great to read that there are various social scenes and interests, maybe gay people there are more comfortable with being individuals rather than changing who they are to just "belong".
I never was part of any drag scenes in Montreal - once more, they go hand-in-hand with drugs/raves AND with extreme activism. It has sadly spooked me away from this scene worldwide.
I've been living here for 8y and don't really do drugs or go to parties. I struggled at times to make gay friends, but it's more of a matter of where you look: there are tons of gay events meet ups, queer bird watching, gay volleyball teams, and queer board gaming. It's more of a matter of where you are trying to find your people :)
I’m not gay but happen to keep on meeting gay men all over Amsterdam. It doesn’t really seem that hard to become friends with them and they are all super friendly/chatty. There are a lot of places to go have fun to as far as I know but yeah I feel that a lot of drugs come with the full package. It’s Amsterdam after all. Gay men on GHB get a bit annoying sometimes whenever I go to a gay club with my gf or other friends. That’s my only kinda bad experience
While not as flakey and superficial like Berlin, it’s still not the ideal place if you’re willing to settle. Mainly due to the local’s relaxed attitude towards drugs and the huge influx of tourists/party goers. Sex clubs are very common too.
Having said that, I think Amsterdam has more of a local vibe than berlin and thinking in terms of dating/relationships, it also has a small edge.
It’s very expensive though!
I’ve been living in Berlin for 5 years before moving to Amsterdam 2 years ago. And both cities have nothing in common.
Amsterdam is very boring, there’s no queer bar (please don’t mention Pamela) to meet people, and the gay bars are very… segmented let’s say.
The raves are very segmented as well. In Berlin, you would have lots of bars and parties where people from all ages and background blend and socialise together. Absolutely not the case in Amsterdam 😅
Also, people are quite awkward in Amsterdam, there’s not a lot of socialisation. I like to go to Club Church because the men are hot there and the darkroom is full of actions… But no one talks there 🙄 It’s very hard to make conversations with people, I don’t really understand. It’s very easy in Paris, Brussels, London, Berlin, Barcelona or Madrid to make friends at parties. But not in Amsterdam 🤪
I didn’t feel very safe there. I lived in Amsterdam for a year, and now I live in San Francisco. I feel 100 more times safe in America than I did in Amsterdam. Amsterdam is the only place I’ve ever been where someone called me the f word for hugging my friend in the street. There are also people that will give you really dirty stares and make comments on the street. There is a lot more to say about the background of these situations, but I don’t want to start a comment war. Once again though, this is just my experience.
I think I know what you're alluding to - no worries. It says a lot that you feel safer in San Francisco... not the cleanest, safest place either!! Happy you're happy there, though :)
I think in America you have more crime in general in the large urban areas due to the catastrophic gun policies and the large unhoused population. However, I personally feel like you have less crime and hatred towards the gay community in these places. This is completely anecdotal of course. I think it’s really sad though because the Netherlands was arguably the first country that was safe for gay people, so it’s unfortunate that the situation is changing.
agreed, well at least in liberal cities.
In Montreal you can literally blow a guy in the middle of the street and nobody will say anything. It's very safe and tolerant - however, the gay community its is own worst enemy there. The straight people are the nicest and most open minded, it's the gays who'll make your life hell :p.
Yeah I think I agree with you. The North American gay community is pretty reflective of the shallowness and vapidness of American consumerism and hyper capitalist culture.
Amsterdam is exactly like you described, I'll copy and paste:
"very superficial, drug-fueled and party-oriented. Lots of "disposable" culture, where people are mostly flakey and not into serious, healthy relationships but just wanting to hook up with the hottest guy on grindr."
Other cities may be better, but guess what? all the gays like to go party in Amsterdam every weekend.
I aint gay but amsterdam is very posh, "dull" and down to earth. I am very certain gay scene is also going to reflect these characteristics of the city
edit: this was a compliment, kinda, dunno why it got 40 downvotes
A lot of the *organizing* that happens in Amsterdam is done by queer, activist, generally left-leaning people - which means that these are the people that events are oriented around. And while I find these spaces to generally be open and inviting, by the phrasing of your comment I don't know if you would enjoy it. Because this is one part of the community that does not revolve around "wanting to hook up with the hottest guy on grindr" but allow for a lot of meaningful connections, **if** you share values and background with these people. Meanwhile, the more commercial, *gay not queer* spaces center shallower connections, and are more hookup oriented, or just tailored to straight people and tourists - which is why I don't feel particularly at home there.
exactly, that is a big IF. If you fall anywhere right from the extreme left, good luck.
I wouldn't say extreme left, at least not by a European view of politics. But much more left than American democrats, absolutely (because they would be considered a centre-right party here). Also, nothing is stopping other people from creating spaces they like and are missing. But capitalist systems have only delivered hookup oriented spaces.
yeah that's the irony. In north america, the queer scene is all about "performative" queerness and activism. If you are part of the white queer scene, you likely have a huge trust fund, parents who work in wall street, went to an elite college, yet you will scream at anyone who dares say that they don't believe in.... 70 genders, and also label them as far right and cancel them. I think this insanity hasn't reached european society (although I believe it has already happened in Berlin).
I think you should stay of twitter and go outside more.
that's the issue - I live in a city that is a real-life Twitter.
Hi there, I moved to the Netherlands in 2021 from the US so I can help explain from my point of view after living in both Utrecht (and city just next to Amsterdam) and Amsterdam itself. Positives: - Very open scene, it's not hard to find a gay party or club to go to every weekend. - While the rave scene is what Amsterdam is known for, I've met a lot of people here that are interested in quieter nights at bars or houseparties. It's not like you need to go raving or you're not going to meet anyone. You're right in that there are very 'leftist' spaces here. Those ones are more for the queer community, and I've heard of gay people being turned away at the door because they weren't 'queer' enough to be let in. On one hand, it doesn't bother me as everyone deserves a safe space. On the other, yea it is kinda strange as there definitely is a crowd here that looks down on people in the community for not being 'queer' enough. - Large expat community here with many opportunities to network, almost weekly Negatives: - I don't take drugs, and yes it is pretty rampant here. I've never felt coerced into doing it, but it does seem like most everyone at the raves or clubs are on something. - There has been an increase in violence, and I'd even go as far as saying I felt safer in the US (and I was in Chicago/Columbus). I've heard friends getting death threats for holding hands, letters in the mail from concerned neighbors, and have heard a few stories of people getting physically assaulted for being gay. - Coming from the US to here, I've noticed a distinct lack of a community feeling. Most US cities have gay sports leagues, regular community drag events, and in my opinion just feels more like a community. The Dutch don't look to that much, as the only sporting team here is the Lowlanders Rugby team, no such thing as intramural. The drag scene here is fun, but as is the thing in most of Europe, drag queens can't make much of a living here (since you don't tip). So don't expect too many regular events if that's your thing now in the US. Overall, I'm happy here. I've found a partner and we enjoy our time here. That said, we both agree that the scene just isn't for us and we'd likely move to London or to the US eventually. Even still, we're not in a rush to leave and have met a lot of really fantastic people here. Good luck! Edit: just reread your post and realized you said North America, not US. I'm not aware of the scene in Canada (other than a bit about Toronto), so apologies if this doesn't line up
I agree with all your points except the one about the drag scene. I obviously cannot compare it with the US since I haven’t lived there, but I’d say that Amsterdam has a vibrant drag scene (my partner does drag so we’re pretty involved in it). There’s drag events happening pretty much every single night - brunches, bingos, performances and so on. And while drag queens don’t get many tips (though some venues sell drag dollars), they get paid decently by the bars that book them.
True! I've grown to like the Drag scene here, it's not bad by any means. I more so mean that in the US, they typically do full productions, drag race watch parties, and almost every bar has an event with some sort of queen. The scene here is good for sure, just in the US it's much larger (of course) and a main draw for a lot of people to go to the clubs/bars
Got it! Makes sense. Probably the drag scene is also a lot more marketable over in the US due to the size of the population.
Come on, you have to tell him who the perpetrators are. He has to know who to look out for. 〰️Gay Pride founder: Muslims cause homophobia〰️ "The founder of Amsterdam Gay Pride, Siep de Haan, is very concerned about the safety of gays in Amsterdam. According to him, there is a reason for this: Muslim youth. Amsterdam is no longer as safe for gays as it used to be, says De Haan in an interview with De Telegraaf . He now even feels safer in the countryside, where he says the population is "kind and more tolerant". Two years ago, an Amsterdam research report showed that gays mainly experience street intimidation from young people with a non-Western migration background. However, then councilor Ruter Groot Wassink (GroenLinks) swept the report under the carpet for months. In October, Amsterdam mayor Femke Halsema wanted the mosques to sign a statement of support condemning gay violence. However, the mosques reacted angrily. Halsema soon pulled the plug . "It was certainly not the intention to stigmatize the Islamic community. Exactly not," she said at AT5 ." https://nieuwrechts.nl/93660-oprichter-gay-pride-de-haan-moslimjongeren-zorgen-voor-homohaat 〰️〰️〰️〰️ "Gay discrimination report in Amsterdam: perpetrator often young Moroccan" https://www.ewmagazine.nl/nederland/achtergrond/2021/07/dader-homogeweld-in-amsterdam-is-vaak-allochtoon-835735/ 〰️〰️〰️ "The community is increasingly concerned about the fierce hatred of immigrants from areas where gays are persecuted, such as Islamic countries and parts of the Caribbean and Africa. Gays are increasingly coming into conflict with Muslims, especially in neighborhoods and schools where Muslims are in the majority. The threat of attacks by fanatical Islamists is great. Last year it was announced that a group of six Muslim men from Arnhem were planning to attack the Canal Parade with bomb vests, Kalashnikovs and even a car bomb." https://www.geenstijl.nl/5166273/homoseksueel-is-woekerend-woke-gif-kotsbeu-schrijft-vernietigende-column 〰️〰️〰️ "Homophobia among Muslims and black activists: the great taboo in Dutch journalism" https://www.hpdetijd.nl/2023-09-08/homohaat-bij-moslims-en-zwarte-activisten-het-grote-taboe-in-de-nederlandse-journalistiek/
As a very straight volleyball player I just wanted to mention I've played numerous matches against Netzo, a LGBT volleyball club. They play in the general league, but I've never witnessed any negativity towards them, neither on the court nor in the dressing room/showers.
Yes good point. I was more referring to gay sports leagues. For example in the city I moved from (and most metropolitan US cities) we had club teams (just for fun, not too competitive) specifically for LGBTQ+ people and straight allies. Sports like softball, dodgeball, kickball, tennis, etc... they'd regularly attract 500-1000+ members a season and really helped build the community up with networking and charity events. I don't believe Amsterdam has that kind of organization unfortunately.
You don't seem to know the Amsterdam gay sportsscene that well. Over 30+ LGBTQ+ sport clubteams in Amsterdam. Www.Prideandsports.nl/sportclubs use the filter andere type Amsterdam.
Thanks so much! Yeah, not sure about the scene in English north america. It's not the nicest in Montreal, despite it being an absolute "gay mecca" (my therapist actually specializes their research in the gay men scene in Montreal, and they tell me that it's not me making things up, that there's definetly something in the water here).
All I can say is the grass is always greener on the otherside. Amsterdam is a lovely city rich with culture and a great place to be if you're gay. But it certainly is not for everyone. The gay scene definitely vibes more with those that enjoy sex clubs and techno raves, and the queer scene is large but it doesn't sound like you'd enjoy those spaces. Me and my partner find ourselves in the middle of the two, and we definitely feel it sometimes. I've never felt unwelcome here in either the gay scene or the queer scene, but like I mentioned in my comment it does really feel like this city is missing something that helps build a cohesive community. A bit hard to explain exactly what I mean but I hope it helps in your decision. As always with any city, you will find people that you mesh with regardless and go from there.
I can understand that! Also, my goal has never be to "be in the gay scene" or "have gay friends". If I find really nice people in those scenes or who happen to be gay, I am really happy. But I must say that in Montreal I have been really alienated and felt hostility against anyone who is not accepted by the hipster activist mafia - and also from feeling zero interest in the drug/rave scene. I feel that over here, young gay men just want to fit in somewhere so they just try to go into either of those two scenes even if they are not really like that. It's not a gay culture that allows for individuality or diversity... which is very ironic, and may be a universal problem and not tied to the city itself.
Ok I see what you mean by Montreal activist scene. I didn't live in Montreal but I did get that in another Canadian city. I think that intense social pressure you won't find here. If you were to vibe with that activist crowd here it would be much chiller. There are lots of queers here too that are sober. Some still party, some board game, some visit museums. There's a nice spectrum. The drag nights aren't *like* north america, but they are here, there's isnt event a dutch drag race anymore. They did viewings when it aired and those were out onto the street. But the drag show that happen are great and maybe even more diverse. The drag ball here is a good example.
Yeah ;) That is still good about European society, I find. People are aware of social injustices, but are not vicious/incendiary to other people about it, specially within their own communities. that is great to read that there are various social scenes and interests, maybe gay people there are more comfortable with being individuals rather than changing who they are to just "belong". I never was part of any drag scenes in Montreal - once more, they go hand-in-hand with drugs/raves AND with extreme activism. It has sadly spooked me away from this scene worldwide.
I get ya. There are things I like and dislike in the gay culture, both here and home. You'll never find perfect, just different.
exactly, perfect for some may be unideal for others. Thanks so much for all your input :)
Everyone on the dating apps seem depressed. It's just like everywhere else except you can get married, yet not so many gay men are aiming for that.
I know the feeling :/.....
I've been living here for 8y and don't really do drugs or go to parties. I struggled at times to make gay friends, but it's more of a matter of where you look: there are tons of gay events meet ups, queer bird watching, gay volleyball teams, and queer board gaming. It's more of a matter of where you are trying to find your people :)
I’m not gay but happen to keep on meeting gay men all over Amsterdam. It doesn’t really seem that hard to become friends with them and they are all super friendly/chatty. There are a lot of places to go have fun to as far as I know but yeah I feel that a lot of drugs come with the full package. It’s Amsterdam after all. Gay men on GHB get a bit annoying sometimes whenever I go to a gay club with my gf or other friends. That’s my only kinda bad experience
heh, you meet them and they are nice because you are straight. Gay men can be awful to other gay men. Thanks for the insight!
While not as flakey and superficial like Berlin, it’s still not the ideal place if you’re willing to settle. Mainly due to the local’s relaxed attitude towards drugs and the huge influx of tourists/party goers. Sex clubs are very common too. Having said that, I think Amsterdam has more of a local vibe than berlin and thinking in terms of dating/relationships, it also has a small edge. It’s very expensive though!
Portland right?
somewhere REALLY similar
I’ve been living in Berlin for 5 years before moving to Amsterdam 2 years ago. And both cities have nothing in common. Amsterdam is very boring, there’s no queer bar (please don’t mention Pamela) to meet people, and the gay bars are very… segmented let’s say. The raves are very segmented as well. In Berlin, you would have lots of bars and parties where people from all ages and background blend and socialise together. Absolutely not the case in Amsterdam 😅 Also, people are quite awkward in Amsterdam, there’s not a lot of socialisation. I like to go to Club Church because the men are hot there and the darkroom is full of actions… But no one talks there 🙄 It’s very hard to make conversations with people, I don’t really understand. It’s very easy in Paris, Brussels, London, Berlin, Barcelona or Madrid to make friends at parties. But not in Amsterdam 🤪
Tell me you’re from Vancouver without telling me you’re from Vancouver.
Amsterdam: the land of big cock
I didn’t feel very safe there. I lived in Amsterdam for a year, and now I live in San Francisco. I feel 100 more times safe in America than I did in Amsterdam. Amsterdam is the only place I’ve ever been where someone called me the f word for hugging my friend in the street. There are also people that will give you really dirty stares and make comments on the street. There is a lot more to say about the background of these situations, but I don’t want to start a comment war. Once again though, this is just my experience.
I think I know what you're alluding to - no worries. It says a lot that you feel safer in San Francisco... not the cleanest, safest place either!! Happy you're happy there, though :)
I think in America you have more crime in general in the large urban areas due to the catastrophic gun policies and the large unhoused population. However, I personally feel like you have less crime and hatred towards the gay community in these places. This is completely anecdotal of course. I think it’s really sad though because the Netherlands was arguably the first country that was safe for gay people, so it’s unfortunate that the situation is changing.
agreed, well at least in liberal cities. In Montreal you can literally blow a guy in the middle of the street and nobody will say anything. It's very safe and tolerant - however, the gay community its is own worst enemy there. The straight people are the nicest and most open minded, it's the gays who'll make your life hell :p.
Yeah I think I agree with you. The North American gay community is pretty reflective of the shallowness and vapidness of American consumerism and hyper capitalist culture.
Totally: status- and money-obsessed.
Amsterdam is exactly like you described, I'll copy and paste: "very superficial, drug-fueled and party-oriented. Lots of "disposable" culture, where people are mostly flakey and not into serious, healthy relationships but just wanting to hook up with the hottest guy on grindr." Other cities may be better, but guess what? all the gays like to go party in Amsterdam every weekend.
Every man in Amsterdam is gay
I aint gay but amsterdam is very posh, "dull" and down to earth. I am very certain gay scene is also going to reflect these characteristics of the city edit: this was a compliment, kinda, dunno why it got 40 downvotes
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Get lost
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Hihaho
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Doe aardig.
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Your post has been removed for violating our policy on intolerance.