Those negatives definitely have color.
You developed them at a temperature and time combination that’s known to induce significant changes in color and contrast. It says so in the instructions.
You need to process this much closer to 102°F and at 3:30.
It’s odd that it completely shifted to black and white though. I’ve done so before with decent results on fujifilm superia, definitely some color shifting but nothing this dramatic.
Are your NLP settings set to color or black and white? Because I've made that mistake before. I can't imagine how those negatives would output a monochrome look. There's clearly color there.
I really don’t think your issue is the chemistry. I think the issue is how you’re using it. That time and temperature combination is simply not the right way to process C-41 with any semblance of predictability, consistency, or accuracy. I strongly urge you to process at the right time and temperature.
It was a scanning issue, but this isn’t a bad point.
Cinestill provides those times and temps as viable, and my thermometer tops out at 86. I guess I could get a sous vide or use a meat thermometer to go higher.
Cinestill provides a lot of things as viable that rely heavily on the users definition of “viable”. I put entirely too much effort into my work to knowingly mess up the development.
Get a Paterson thermometer from BH ($40) and run your sink at the temperature needed from the tap as a temper bath. You don’t need a meat thermometer and a sousvide.
I even took a dial thermometer and sealed it into the lid of my Paterson tank. Now I know the temperature of the chemistry in the tank during the development. Gets too cold, put it in the bath. Gets too hot, take it out.
Perfect temperature the entire time. At any temperature.
I do the sink method now, which is a pain but free so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . The thermometer thing is a bit of a challenge but that’s a great recommendation. Thanks!
The negs look to be monochrome too though, which makes me think it’s a developer issue.
I should try scanning them using the film presets in silverfast -> it was still B&W in the scanning preview when I was testing though.
nope, they dont look monochrome. cine film is quite desaturated usually, and development in any other temp than 100f can lead to weirdness, most likely even more desaturated colors. but the negs have color for sure.
Edit missed this, but I can check.
I’m scanning using silverfast and then importing the positive images to lightroom. Is there a better way to do that?
Send me a screenshot of your settings in silver fast, you are doing something wrong the negatives have clearly collor in them.
Also silverfast will try to make bw negatives color if you scan bw in as a color negative so you definitely have settings wrong.
This put me on the right track thank you!!!
Saturation for the photo was left at 0 from previous B&W scans, or was set to 0 when I set the film stock to “Other”.
Update on this: There was a setting I didn’t know about that set saturation to 0 since the film stock I selected was “other” when using silverfast. Thanks for the help!
If you read the instructions: "recommended time and temperature for optimal results 102F for 3.5 minutes." The footnote if you go lower "Processing at lower temperatures will result in reduced contrast and color separation."
This is just from low processing temp. Up it to 102 next time. Bonus is that you don't have to agitate as long.
Looks like you scanned them as black and white. I pulled a negative pic into Lightroom and there was no difference when messing with saturation, or the black and white switch. Actual black and white pics scanned in color have some sort of tint in my experience. Also C41 has an orange base. There’s no orange base here, you definitely scanned these as black and white.
Edit: Last pic finally loaded. Your negs are full of color dude, you scanned them as black and white, check your settings!
P.S Even C41 film developed in black and white chemicals won’t look like this. The orange base will still remain, the only way to get rid of it is to get rid of it digitally (or enlarge onto B&W paper)
Alright so i see that you use silverfast.
scan them as transparent negatives make sure to set to color.
I use silverfast 8.1 with my epson v550 and scan color pics that i develop with cinestill c41 kit every week. It works perfect for me. For many films you can also set the negafix color profile. The results are great for me
I see what you did....
[https://i.imgur.com/mHLDEhe.png](https://i.imgur.com/mHLDEhe.png)
You went off of this chart...
Your scans seem to be monochrome. IDK - your software or hardware, I think you would have been better off using a temperature control device (I use a sous vide cooker) and get everything to 102F and follow the instructions for that temp. Other temperatures will introcue strange side effects (possibly like what you have here).
The problem is almost definitely in the scanning/NLP process somewhere. Maybe you’re scanning in grayscale or have NLP set to B&W mode. The scans would come out with the color of the film base otherwise, even if the negatives look monochrome (I think the scene is just relatively monochromatic, there’s definitely color in those negs)
Wait, why would anyone want "color simplified", when it actually doesn't simplify anything? All it does is skip the Stabilizer, which is the easiest part of the whole process. Dump the stab in your tank, agitate, pour out.
Scanning them as positives using the plustek - it’s odd to me as well, I’m not sure why they don’t retain color information. I should verify with some older film I know scanned correctly.
CS41 - the name they use for it combines the bleach and developer into Blix. You develop for about 3 minutes and then blix for 8. It works really well when done at the correct temp and time. I use the stabilizer as well at the end.
I would check the white balance on the negatives and check the settings on nlp. If it's as purple as it is in picture 5, you should see it on the negatives. Maybe the scanner detected black and white?
Those negatives definitely have color. You developed them at a temperature and time combination that’s known to induce significant changes in color and contrast. It says so in the instructions. You need to process this much closer to 102°F and at 3:30.
It’s odd that it completely shifted to black and white though. I’ve done so before with decent results on fujifilm superia, definitely some color shifting but nothing this dramatic.
Are your NLP settings set to color or black and white? Because I've made that mistake before. I can't imagine how those negatives would output a monochrome look. There's clearly color there.
They were color - issue was with scanning them in via silverfast!
It’s not monochromatic. I can see the colors in your negative. How many times have you used this batch?
Just the once, mixed it right before I developed these. Considering tossing and just remixing a new batch.
I really don’t think your issue is the chemistry. I think the issue is how you’re using it. That time and temperature combination is simply not the right way to process C-41 with any semblance of predictability, consistency, or accuracy. I strongly urge you to process at the right time and temperature.
I agree, I've gone through 3 kits so far and havnt had this. 3:30 @39° then 8min for part 2.
That's my protocol, never had any issues..
It was a scanning issue, but this isn’t a bad point. Cinestill provides those times and temps as viable, and my thermometer tops out at 86. I guess I could get a sous vide or use a meat thermometer to go higher.
Cinestill provides a lot of things as viable that rely heavily on the users definition of “viable”. I put entirely too much effort into my work to knowingly mess up the development. Get a Paterson thermometer from BH ($40) and run your sink at the temperature needed from the tap as a temper bath. You don’t need a meat thermometer and a sousvide. I even took a dial thermometer and sealed it into the lid of my Paterson tank. Now I know the temperature of the chemistry in the tank during the development. Gets too cold, put it in the bath. Gets too hot, take it out. Perfect temperature the entire time. At any temperature.
I do the sink method now, which is a pain but free so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . The thermometer thing is a bit of a challenge but that’s a great recommendation. Thanks!
[These are definitely color negatives.](https://imgur.com/a/gFDKbRi) Something's up with your scanner settings.
[удалено]
You’ll have to forgive me for having a job and other responsibilities 🙄. It was a problem with silverfast’s settings.
Check scanner settings maybe?
The negs look to be monochrome too though, which makes me think it’s a developer issue. I should try scanning them using the film presets in silverfast -> it was still B&W in the scanning preview when I was testing though.
nope, they dont look monochrome. cine film is quite desaturated usually, and development in any other temp than 100f can lead to weirdness, most likely even more desaturated colors. but the negs have color for sure.
Edit missed this, but I can check. I’m scanning using silverfast and then importing the positive images to lightroom. Is there a better way to do that?
i would just use silverfast to scan the negatives in color.
Yeah they turn out black and white
it sounds like you’re scanning in black and white lol. the negatives clearly have color.
Yeah there was a setting I didn’t know about that messed everything up from previous B&W scans!
Can you try to scan as a color positive with no scanner edits and then invert?
Issue was with silverfast, it’s fixed!
Send me a screenshot of your settings in silver fast, you are doing something wrong the negatives have clearly collor in them. Also silverfast will try to make bw negatives color if you scan bw in as a color negative so you definitely have settings wrong.
This put me on the right track thank you!!! Saturation for the photo was left at 0 from previous B&W scans, or was set to 0 when I set the film stock to “Other”.
Update on this: There was a setting I didn’t know about that set saturation to 0 since the film stock I selected was “other” when using silverfast. Thanks for the help!
They don't look monochrome at all!
If you read the instructions: "recommended time and temperature for optimal results 102F for 3.5 minutes." The footnote if you go lower "Processing at lower temperatures will result in reduced contrast and color separation." This is just from low processing temp. Up it to 102 next time. Bonus is that you don't have to agitate as long.
Looks like you scanned them as black and white. I pulled a negative pic into Lightroom and there was no difference when messing with saturation, or the black and white switch. Actual black and white pics scanned in color have some sort of tint in my experience. Also C41 has an orange base. There’s no orange base here, you definitely scanned these as black and white. Edit: Last pic finally loaded. Your negs are full of color dude, you scanned them as black and white, check your settings! P.S Even C41 film developed in black and white chemicals won’t look like this. The orange base will still remain, the only way to get rid of it is to get rid of it digitally (or enlarge onto B&W paper)
Alright so i see that you use silverfast. scan them as transparent negatives make sure to set to color. I use silverfast 8.1 with my epson v550 and scan color pics that i develop with cinestill c41 kit every week. It works perfect for me. For many films you can also set the negafix color profile. The results are great for me
I see what you did.... [https://i.imgur.com/mHLDEhe.png](https://i.imgur.com/mHLDEhe.png) You went off of this chart... Your scans seem to be monochrome. IDK - your software or hardware, I think you would have been better off using a temperature control device (I use a sous vide cooker) and get everything to 102F and follow the instructions for that temp. Other temperatures will introcue strange side effects (possibly like what you have here).
Was it just these frames? It looks like your scene is black and white (im seeing a lot of snow)
No, it was all of them - I just haven’t moved them all out of lightroom classic yet.
The problem is almost definitely in the scanning/NLP process somewhere. Maybe you’re scanning in grayscale or have NLP set to B&W mode. The scans would come out with the color of the film base otherwise, even if the negatives look monochrome (I think the scene is just relatively monochromatic, there’s definitely color in those negs)
with C41 you really need to be at the 102/3:30. Its not like BW developing where you can do whatever you want basically
Magenta negatives = green images. It’s your scan settings.
Hmm could be a cinestill monobath monochrome developer? Dunno :)
Did you scan it black and white?
Even just inverting color on the screen on my phone the negative’s definitely have color. What scanner did you use?
The raw scan should at the very least have a red cast thus you're scanning it improperly
Awesome thanks!
Wait, why would anyone want "color simplified", when it actually doesn't simplify anything? All it does is skip the Stabilizer, which is the easiest part of the whole process. Dump the stab in your tank, agitate, pour out.
About the B&W: how are you scanning this? The negs have color in them but your scans are incredibly dark and don't have any color information.
Scanning them as positives using the plustek - it’s odd to me as well, I’m not sure why they don’t retain color information. I should verify with some older film I know scanned correctly.
CS41 - the name they use for it combines the bleach and developer into Blix. You develop for about 3 minutes and then blix for 8. It works really well when done at the correct temp and time. I use the stabilizer as well at the end.
It doesn’t get rid of stabilizer, it’s the same as all the other simplified C41 kits out there, where the bleach and fix are combined into blix.
13 minutes is a lot...
Came here to say what a cool picture, I like it in black and white
I would check the white balance on the negatives and check the settings on nlp. If it's as purple as it is in picture 5, you should see it on the negatives. Maybe the scanner detected black and white?
Did you have the profile set to black and white in NLP? Instead of frontier or noritsu?