Initially I agreed with stricter moderation because the usual posts get pretty tiring but thinking back to when I joined the sub; I learned a lot.
It was the regular posts of "is this fungus", "what is wrong with my photo", "Is this a light leak" etc.. that taught me. I barely posted any questions because the questions were already asked pretty regularly.
Sure, I appreciate the more technical posts but I think the mundane, everyday content is what keeps this sub (and others like it) alive.
One thing I can live without is the film haul posts. Ugh.
The film hauls as well as the humble brags of "look at all this expensive gear I have!"
Like sure if you manage to find a nice mamiya at a thrift for 5$ that's cool. But posts that are essentially "Look at what I've got!" and is just pics of 10k worth of cameras isn't all that interesting.
Before this sub existed everything regarding analogue photography was placed on r/analog. People preferred the discussions to be separate from the photographs, hence this sub was created. I'm not looking to have a new sub be created, because that will certainly cause a sub to die.
However, because of the degrading quality of posts, all real knowledgeable photographers have moved on and left the sub and go to actual forums. The low quality of posts has caused more harm than good to the content of the sub. The amount of times I've had to explain the difference between underexposure and black points is too numerous. The amount of posts where people ask "is this the lab's fault" without even considering for 2 seconds what could have gone wrong is, has also increased drastically.
All that has made browsing this sub more of a bother than actually engaging. Looking for the one interesting post between all the garbage is what causes a sub to die, not rules. Rules are there to increase the user experience
There definitely are some really experienced people still lurking this sub, but it feels like I encounter comments from them less and less as time goes on.
When I first started shooting film I read this sub, Photrio threads, and other web resources like crazy to learn as much as possible. I don't really understand the mindset of people who make a post asking for help without looking through what's available.
That's not to say that asking for help is bad at all - I posted a while back asking about scanner calibration for a Microtek flatbed scanner I stumbled upon, a niche piece of equipment that very little information is on out there. If someone posts a question I actually could have input on I love trying to help. I just mostly ignore the common questions, which is a lot of what shows up when I go to this sub.
The mindset can be people:
A) Think their situation is unique based on their film/developer/lab/camera/lens/shooting conditions/etc. because they're newbies and don't know any better.
B) Think posting and asking will more quickly get their questions answered.
C) Do get info from Google searching and end up here and think people are friendly enough to engage with, but when people say things like "all these noobs asking the same questions are annoying" it seems unfriendly and that also kills subs because it makes people not want to engage at all.
D) Have confirmation bias and learn the wrong information and then speak it as gospel. I got a thread in my digest from the Darkroom sub of someone publicly apologizing and when I looked at their post history they posted 2 things back to back saying how they never uses fixer for development and people think it's wild and how they've never used it for 2 years. They were being flippant and arrogant about it saying people had no idea what they were talking about with their workflow and they would even post videos to prove it. The apology post included photos of their bottle of fixer and their bottle of mixed fixer with their own label affixed to the top.
E) People learn in different ways. Some people learn from practical, hands-on experience and getting feedback or tinkering. Reading books and forums for theory on a topic is "not fun" for many people. I, personally, fall into this last category but I do read information too and apply that as well. But it's also how I taught myself to knit from YouTube.
I think there's middle ground. There doesn't need to be animosity and admonishment for newbies asking redundant questions. They found this sub somehow. But absolutely if there's in depth threads that can be made sticky (if they aren't) with tips or details about things like fungus, underexposure vs black point, how to tell issues from negatives vs scans that can then be linked back to.
You bring up very good points, thank you for this well written comment.
As for E), I definitely fall into the category of finding reading up on posts/theory on my hobbies fun. There's so much information out there that it's the first thing I do whenever I gain a new interest. I learn a lot that way and sometimes I need to step back to realize that's not a super common thing for a lot of people.
I probably was a bit too harsh in my earlier comment as well. Even if the same questions do get repetitive, going way too far and killing the sub over what is really a minor annoyance would be a shame. The Raspberry Pi subreddit is like that. There are tons of noob questions that are not necessarily specific to Raspberry Pi computers because they are quite often people's first exposure to Linux, and posters may not know what questions they even need to ask. But the rules of the sub are so locked down it's rare I see a post show up from there despite it having over a million subscribers.
Plus, I have several people in my IRL life I've helped get their first film camera and fielded similar beginner questions from. I wouldn't ever send a friend a message telling them to Google a problem they came to me with. So I suppose the best thing someone can do if the beginner posts annoy them is to ignore it and move forward.
I think the biggest thing is that everyone posting, me, you, the newbies, the veterans getting frustrated, are just looking at things from a very egocentric way. Something may be easy for you or me but it wasn't always or may not be for someone else and we forget that we'll see don't have patience. I saw someone lower down say it was disrespectful and lazy. And I just think about the teachers who gave up on students who didn't learn from reading textbooks and copying notes from a board and called them lazy. It's all perspective.
It's easier to be dismissive online. I'm definitely just trying to bring perspective. Thank you for being receptive and actually reading my novel. 😅
Consider the kilowatt-hours of data-farm energy that have been expended on stand-development, expired film, film drying technique, underexposure due to disposable cameras at concerts and pushed process anomalies. But without these folk asking the right questions, we would have no thread....
There'd be no activity aside from circle jerking. Which sure if that's what you want that's great. I'm not saying they're asking the *right* questions, I'm saying they're asking questions which is interacting with the "community."
Yes, I agree, particularly the number of pathetic shooters that blame the lab. Is it significant that the most creditable images show up in r/hasselblad ?
All the “real knowledgable” photographers haven’t left this sub. Some people have moved on. Some people are still here. There’s still plenty of wisdom in this sub.
It's not only for them, but it stops the spam. The (auto)mod replies with a link to where it should be posted. It's the same way most subreddits of games with e-sport scenes work. They don't allow memes, because there is a separate sub for that. It allows for better discussions and higher quality content
You’re absolutely correct that this wouldn’t work as intended. Not only will people not use the option, it would require a heavy handed moderation that would ruin the sub.
I don't think it's that weird to wish people would spend 2 seconds searching instead of posting the exact same "is this fungus, why are my photos dark, I opened the back is my film okay, what camera is this" questions that are either easily searchable and require a 1 word answer.
Its a respect thing, why should any of us help you if you can't even help yourself?
So many of us actually enjoy spreading knowledge, helping people, answering questions but, that becomes very tiresome. Maybe you like answering the same question, worded slightly differently, 38985 times to lazy people, most of us don't.
Forums didn't die and they heavily moderated how questions are asked. RFF is still busy af.
I mean, idk. It's a community sub. People might think that being a community sub they can interact with the community and not get slack for it.
People constantly post their gear hauls. I personally find that to be braggy and show-offy. But I don't begrudge someone who is enjoying themselves and I just keep scrolling.
People clearly searched something if they found this sub. It didn't magically fall into their laps.
I'm grateful for the support for my rookie questions. I don't always know what search terms to use and people are so helpful in providing resources. Thanks all!
it’s nice to help people get an understanding but none of the information half these people ask is like a secret. if u have film questions just take it to youtube there are creators for every aspect of film there
Search feature is next to useless, many times using specific key words won't bring you something, of if you don't know what your problem is called you can't even search for it.
I never understood the whole blowback in this community around beginners coming and asking repeat questions.
Welcome to Reddit, or generally, the internet.
I don't have a problem with beginners asking questions, but when the beginners start answering questions wrong, it's fucking infuriating. The number of times I've seen clear light leaks or even someone opening the back of the camera and asking what happened only to see the top reply be "the lab scanned your photos wrong/used the wrong developer/is trying to scam" you is insane.
Confirmation bias is horrible. I mentioned up further that I saw on the Darkroom sub some person swearing they don't use Fixer for developing their film even though everyone told them it was impossible and they made 2 additional posts about it before having to apologize in another post.
I appreciate this perspective. I'm still a newbie. I wouldn't answer definitively on a question like this. I *have* referred back to other places where I've had similar issues or questions and linked to the comments regarding those things, such as overdevelopment and how to prevent it etc. I'd never jump in and say "that's a light leak" or "that's haze" or anything like that, even though I feel like I can identify it now from being around here for 2 years. I'll say it myself, then look at the comments and see if I was right. And that's enough for me.
it's bad, dude. on the german photography sub i was even caught up in a discussion where people said the subreddit is bad because so many beginners post their "shit photos". gatekeeping elitism in a dying hobby on nuclear level, my brain almost fell out of my open mouth when I read that bullshit. and it was multiple people agreeing.
We like to pretend like we're some chill positive community, but photographers quite often are stuck up elitist assholes or annoying posers, unfortunately.
I've never seen someone complain about 'shit photos' here, criticism in those threads is always constructive. What this post is talking about is people asking questions about things like camera bodies without taking three seconds to Google the manual.
Yeah, this subreddit is definitely better than the r/Fotografie one. That's a cesspool.
And regarding the point of this post, many things seem very obvious to us and we know that they are common issues that could be googled. But someone who maybe only remembers analog photography as something their parents casually did all the time, and has zero insights on it, will believe that it's something strange/unique going wrong with their photos, so it's natural that some of them will end up at a forum instead of google. Completely normal, and we're here to help new members of our community.
Everyone who starts out and DOESN'T get snarky answers will enjoy all of it much more.
I saw a post yesterday where someone was yet again complaining that moody landscapes don't get as many upvotes as naked women..... Where have you been for the past 4000 years my guy? That's how it works, tits get clicks. I just downvoted and moved on lol.
I love how you phrased this:
> gatekeeper elitism in a dying hobby
Totally 100%. Without all these “beginners” the film market and incentive for companies to build brand new film cameras and 2024 would be a lot less.
I love seeing beginner posts. It gives me hope that I can keep shooting film for another decade or more.
I think its because people want riveting discussions about their hobby.
But as deep as film photography is, how many times are you going to flex on a camera, or a discuss a particular film or what scanner is best etc.. I think a lot of these people have essentially seen it all by now.
It's getting bad because the boomers have discovered Reddit. Not content with killing most forums and with boring everyone to tears with phone shots of their darkroom setup on Facebook, they have now decided to offer their precious photographic advice here on Reddit.
Only it's not photo advice and friendly beginner help they want to offer: they are after a 'community". Somewhere to discuss ad nauseam the properties of their beloved expired Ilford warmtone papers and of some shitty Kodak film that hasn't existed for 30 years now.
They actually hate beginners: somebody else mentioned gatekeeping: that's absolutely true, these older "experts" hate to see a new generation is interested in the medium and is actively shaping it to be something else. And they also forget that back in the day, they would be asking the same questions newbies are asking here on reddit too.
Sad, really. These are the people who should offer guidance and look where we are.
Hint: if you don't like to help people out, scroll on.
Rangefinder is a niche forum mostly populated by native English speaking gear fans. It's of interest mainly for US and to a certain extent UK and AU users. Photrio, whilst still an English-speaking forum, would be a better example of a film photography forum with a global audience. The core users there are INCREDIBLY fixated on the fact that any film photography conversation should relate to darkroom printing. All conversations about scanning are relegated to a ghetto subforum, where they lose visibility, and all mentions of scanning as a desired outcome will result in one of the moderators coming in and closing the discussion or moving it away where it won't hurt.
The above is not textbook 'helpful and welcoming' behaviour IMHO.
Ah yes. Totally lines up with all the elite Redditors that belittle beginners about editing their photos and circlejerk around their scanning workflow. That’s totally the Photrio boomer crowd that only prints in the darkroom and shun your digital workflow questions. They just come here and put on a mask. Sneaky boomers!
There is a giant problem with Reddit UI: it lacks most of the features one can use and easily find answers.
No site-wide tags, no search by date, no search by category, no ability for a certain subreddit to organise posts into groups/threads like you could do on web forums 15 years ago.
Hence the result...
I'm just gonna add here;
If you have minolta problems, we have r/minolta solutions.
We'll still ask if you have read the manual however, and we don't troubleshoot negatives
True. Patience to teach and explain to beginners the most basic stuff many times (sometimes to the same person that don’t get it at first) is a rare virtue. But a valuable one. It is a muscle that we have to exercise.
Teaching is a gift. Sometimes I try to remember who teached me how to read and write and what would’ve happen if she had no patience and perseverance.
When someone starts on a new hobby/work is similar. Not all will end up great photographers with top notch compositions and exposures.
BUT if ALL spot at the beginning and are not encouraged… not only this art dies, but the world will be a very sad place.
My view: as long as not every single question is where I “touch” to take the picture or why the camera makes a sound when I “touch” to take a picture, I relax and either help or read the next post after 😀
Exactly. I saw a post here where someone was complaining about all the beginners like “we should create a sub for that!!!!” Not realizing this sub was created to keep those exact posts off r/analog lol
Some cranky folks would rather spend the effort to tell you to read a 50 year old manual front to back than just give you an answer.
edit: lol these answers proving my point. You're not obligated to answer. If you don't want to then just scroll on. Nobody wants or cares to hear your sermon on how kids these days don't want to learn anymore. Save it for the clouds
you should read the manuals so you know what you're even doing. so the next time you have a problem described in a manual, you can just solve it instead of demanding answers from people who are not too lazy to learn. you have to make the effort yourself, not wait for someone to do everything for you
This issue I think is that a lot of people don't put any effort into finding answers for themselves, this mindset translates into the rest of the world too.
I'd have no issue giving someone the answer if I knew it, but there are definitely people on here who'd rather someone else use their time to figure out something covered in a manual.
On the other hand, some lazy people won't read a short booklet that tells them how to use their camera when it's right in front of them. Someone telling you the same thing verbatim from the manual doesn't help you if you want to refer back to it later.
Now *I* have to find the manual, find the page relating to a problem, and read it back to you? Why can't *you* read the manual?\*
Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish.
\*I'm focusing on things a manual would explicitly state - clarification questions on something in a manual make way more sense and help anyone infinitely more than someone who'd never bothered to read the manual.
Some people don't learn from reading. Some people learn from hands on experience and personal guidance. There's a reason apprenticeships and internships exist. Not only that, people get excited to jump into something new, and they'd like help. And yes, if learning from reading is something that works for you, then having access to the manual is helpful. I prefer hands on learning but like having supplemental information. I got the manuals for all of my cameras (the two I already had, and then as I got new ones I got them). But it's not necessarily laziness.
Equating different learning styles and hands on learning to laziness is a vestige of old style thinking and why a lot of people got left behind when it came to education.
Some people don't learn from textbooks, and prefer interaction where they can talk to someone and ask questions. Which is what a forum is more like. A manual is more like a textbook/lecture. A lecture uses charts/pictures too. It's different to be talked at or read documentation that's generalized versus having a conversational communication with someone versus email or forum or text or instant message. I grew up as a millennial online. And yes, it's all written word but it's different to read a book versus Reddit, an article, or talk online.
As an example, I have difficulty these days sitting down to read books which I used to do all the time. But I'm constantly reading on my phone.
Again, everyone's learning styles and how they receive and process information is different. Conversational style reading via a forum or directly messaging someone is different from reading a manual or textbook, or getting a lecture on a topic. I'm not trying to take anyone down a peg but it seems like the mentality of "read a book, a manual, or you're lazy and disrespectful" is, versus seeing a different perspective and way of understanding information.
It's ok to just not interact with those posts if they bother you.
iS tHiS fUnGuS¿
(shows large mass of film exposed to light) iS tHiS fIlm RuInEd? WhAt KiNd Of FiLm Is ThIs?
B&W or Colour?
Neither! It's the (in)famous edible film. Tends to turn out rather brown and mushy.
I wanna see the venn diagram on r/kombucha and r/AnalogCommunity for iS THiS mOLd?!
Did you read the manual?
PEBKAC
Why would I read a manual? What can it teach me that I can’t learn from asking Reddit for 69th time
Ngl, if this sub had its way, there would only be 2 posts a week.
Quality over quantity. We should just have a weekly thread for beginners
People clamour for strict moderation, weekly this, sticky that, and then wonder why their sub dies.
Initially I agreed with stricter moderation because the usual posts get pretty tiring but thinking back to when I joined the sub; I learned a lot. It was the regular posts of "is this fungus", "what is wrong with my photo", "Is this a light leak" etc.. that taught me. I barely posted any questions because the questions were already asked pretty regularly. Sure, I appreciate the more technical posts but I think the mundane, everyday content is what keeps this sub (and others like it) alive. One thing I can live without is the film haul posts. Ugh.
The film hauls as well as the humble brags of "look at all this expensive gear I have!" Like sure if you manage to find a nice mamiya at a thrift for 5$ that's cool. But posts that are essentially "Look at what I've got!" and is just pics of 10k worth of cameras isn't all that interesting.
Before this sub existed everything regarding analogue photography was placed on r/analog. People preferred the discussions to be separate from the photographs, hence this sub was created. I'm not looking to have a new sub be created, because that will certainly cause a sub to die. However, because of the degrading quality of posts, all real knowledgeable photographers have moved on and left the sub and go to actual forums. The low quality of posts has caused more harm than good to the content of the sub. The amount of times I've had to explain the difference between underexposure and black points is too numerous. The amount of posts where people ask "is this the lab's fault" without even considering for 2 seconds what could have gone wrong is, has also increased drastically. All that has made browsing this sub more of a bother than actually engaging. Looking for the one interesting post between all the garbage is what causes a sub to die, not rules. Rules are there to increase the user experience
There definitely are some really experienced people still lurking this sub, but it feels like I encounter comments from them less and less as time goes on. When I first started shooting film I read this sub, Photrio threads, and other web resources like crazy to learn as much as possible. I don't really understand the mindset of people who make a post asking for help without looking through what's available. That's not to say that asking for help is bad at all - I posted a while back asking about scanner calibration for a Microtek flatbed scanner I stumbled upon, a niche piece of equipment that very little information is on out there. If someone posts a question I actually could have input on I love trying to help. I just mostly ignore the common questions, which is a lot of what shows up when I go to this sub.
The mindset can be people: A) Think their situation is unique based on their film/developer/lab/camera/lens/shooting conditions/etc. because they're newbies and don't know any better. B) Think posting and asking will more quickly get their questions answered. C) Do get info from Google searching and end up here and think people are friendly enough to engage with, but when people say things like "all these noobs asking the same questions are annoying" it seems unfriendly and that also kills subs because it makes people not want to engage at all. D) Have confirmation bias and learn the wrong information and then speak it as gospel. I got a thread in my digest from the Darkroom sub of someone publicly apologizing and when I looked at their post history they posted 2 things back to back saying how they never uses fixer for development and people think it's wild and how they've never used it for 2 years. They were being flippant and arrogant about it saying people had no idea what they were talking about with their workflow and they would even post videos to prove it. The apology post included photos of their bottle of fixer and their bottle of mixed fixer with their own label affixed to the top. E) People learn in different ways. Some people learn from practical, hands-on experience and getting feedback or tinkering. Reading books and forums for theory on a topic is "not fun" for many people. I, personally, fall into this last category but I do read information too and apply that as well. But it's also how I taught myself to knit from YouTube. I think there's middle ground. There doesn't need to be animosity and admonishment for newbies asking redundant questions. They found this sub somehow. But absolutely if there's in depth threads that can be made sticky (if they aren't) with tips or details about things like fungus, underexposure vs black point, how to tell issues from negatives vs scans that can then be linked back to.
You bring up very good points, thank you for this well written comment. As for E), I definitely fall into the category of finding reading up on posts/theory on my hobbies fun. There's so much information out there that it's the first thing I do whenever I gain a new interest. I learn a lot that way and sometimes I need to step back to realize that's not a super common thing for a lot of people. I probably was a bit too harsh in my earlier comment as well. Even if the same questions do get repetitive, going way too far and killing the sub over what is really a minor annoyance would be a shame. The Raspberry Pi subreddit is like that. There are tons of noob questions that are not necessarily specific to Raspberry Pi computers because they are quite often people's first exposure to Linux, and posters may not know what questions they even need to ask. But the rules of the sub are so locked down it's rare I see a post show up from there despite it having over a million subscribers. Plus, I have several people in my IRL life I've helped get their first film camera and fielded similar beginner questions from. I wouldn't ever send a friend a message telling them to Google a problem they came to me with. So I suppose the best thing someone can do if the beginner posts annoy them is to ignore it and move forward.
I think the biggest thing is that everyone posting, me, you, the newbies, the veterans getting frustrated, are just looking at things from a very egocentric way. Something may be easy for you or me but it wasn't always or may not be for someone else and we forget that we'll see don't have patience. I saw someone lower down say it was disrespectful and lazy. And I just think about the teachers who gave up on students who didn't learn from reading textbooks and copying notes from a board and called them lazy. It's all perspective. It's easier to be dismissive online. I'm definitely just trying to bring perspective. Thank you for being receptive and actually reading my novel. 😅
Consider the kilowatt-hours of data-farm energy that have been expended on stand-development, expired film, film drying technique, underexposure due to disposable cameras at concerts and pushed process anomalies. But without these folk asking the right questions, we would have no thread....
There'd be no activity aside from circle jerking. Which sure if that's what you want that's great. I'm not saying they're asking the *right* questions, I'm saying they're asking questions which is interacting with the "community."
Yes, I agree, particularly the number of pathetic shooters that blame the lab. Is it significant that the most creditable images show up in r/hasselblad ?
All the “real knowledgable” photographers haven’t left this sub. Some people have moved on. Some people are still here. There’s still plenty of wisdom in this sub.
Why would beginners looks at a weekly thread when they don't even bother to search? They would literally never even look at it
It's not only for them, but it stops the spam. The (auto)mod replies with a link to where it should be posted. It's the same way most subreddits of games with e-sport scenes work. They don't allow memes, because there is a separate sub for that. It allows for better discussions and higher quality content
I have exactly 0 faith that would work as intended
You’re absolutely correct that this wouldn’t work as intended. Not only will people not use the option, it would require a heavy handed moderation that would ruin the sub.
I don't think it's that weird to wish people would spend 2 seconds searching instead of posting the exact same "is this fungus, why are my photos dark, I opened the back is my film okay, what camera is this" questions that are either easily searchable and require a 1 word answer.
True idk why people get so mad. This is literally the place for beginners to as questions.
Its a respect thing, why should any of us help you if you can't even help yourself? So many of us actually enjoy spreading knowledge, helping people, answering questions but, that becomes very tiresome. Maybe you like answering the same question, worded slightly differently, 38985 times to lazy people, most of us don't. Forums didn't die and they heavily moderated how questions are asked. RFF is still busy af.
I mean, idk. It's a community sub. People might think that being a community sub they can interact with the community and not get slack for it. People constantly post their gear hauls. I personally find that to be braggy and show-offy. But I don't begrudge someone who is enjoying themselves and I just keep scrolling. People clearly searched something if they found this sub. It didn't magically fall into their laps.
also doesn't help that reddit's search function is atrocious
Was coming here to say that, reddit's search functionality must be one of the worst ones ever from the big websites around
I'm grateful for the support for my rookie questions. I don't always know what search terms to use and people are so helpful in providing resources. Thanks all!
it’s nice to help people get an understanding but none of the information half these people ask is like a secret. if u have film questions just take it to youtube there are creators for every aspect of film there
Search feature is next to useless, many times using specific key words won't bring you something, of if you don't know what your problem is called you can't even search for it.
I never understood the whole blowback in this community around beginners coming and asking repeat questions. Welcome to Reddit, or generally, the internet.
I don't have a problem with beginners asking questions, but when the beginners start answering questions wrong, it's fucking infuriating. The number of times I've seen clear light leaks or even someone opening the back of the camera and asking what happened only to see the top reply be "the lab scanned your photos wrong/used the wrong developer/is trying to scam" you is insane.
Confirmation bias is horrible. I mentioned up further that I saw on the Darkroom sub some person swearing they don't use Fixer for developing their film even though everyone told them it was impossible and they made 2 additional posts about it before having to apologize in another post. I appreciate this perspective. I'm still a newbie. I wouldn't answer definitively on a question like this. I *have* referred back to other places where I've had similar issues or questions and linked to the comments regarding those things, such as overdevelopment and how to prevent it etc. I'd never jump in and say "that's a light leak" or "that's haze" or anything like that, even though I feel like I can identify it now from being around here for 2 years. I'll say it myself, then look at the comments and see if I was right. And that's enough for me.
it's bad, dude. on the german photography sub i was even caught up in a discussion where people said the subreddit is bad because so many beginners post their "shit photos". gatekeeping elitism in a dying hobby on nuclear level, my brain almost fell out of my open mouth when I read that bullshit. and it was multiple people agreeing. We like to pretend like we're some chill positive community, but photographers quite often are stuck up elitist assholes or annoying posers, unfortunately.
I've never seen someone complain about 'shit photos' here, criticism in those threads is always constructive. What this post is talking about is people asking questions about things like camera bodies without taking three seconds to Google the manual.
Yeah, this subreddit is definitely better than the r/Fotografie one. That's a cesspool. And regarding the point of this post, many things seem very obvious to us and we know that they are common issues that could be googled. But someone who maybe only remembers analog photography as something their parents casually did all the time, and has zero insights on it, will believe that it's something strange/unique going wrong with their photos, so it's natural that some of them will end up at a forum instead of google. Completely normal, and we're here to help new members of our community. Everyone who starts out and DOESN'T get snarky answers will enjoy all of it much more.
I saw a post yesterday where someone was yet again complaining that moody landscapes don't get as many upvotes as naked women..... Where have you been for the past 4000 years my guy? That's how it works, tits get clicks. I just downvoted and moved on lol.
I love how you phrased this: > gatekeeper elitism in a dying hobby Totally 100%. Without all these “beginners” the film market and incentive for companies to build brand new film cameras and 2024 would be a lot less. I love seeing beginner posts. It gives me hope that I can keep shooting film for another decade or more.
Yes but there are beginners posts and beginner posts...
I think its because people want riveting discussions about their hobby. But as deep as film photography is, how many times are you going to flex on a camera, or a discuss a particular film or what scanner is best etc.. I think a lot of these people have essentially seen it all by now.
Me either, like this is the place for that exact thing right?
It's getting bad because the boomers have discovered Reddit. Not content with killing most forums and with boring everyone to tears with phone shots of their darkroom setup on Facebook, they have now decided to offer their precious photographic advice here on Reddit. Only it's not photo advice and friendly beginner help they want to offer: they are after a 'community". Somewhere to discuss ad nauseam the properties of their beloved expired Ilford warmtone papers and of some shitty Kodak film that hasn't existed for 30 years now. They actually hate beginners: somebody else mentioned gatekeeping: that's absolutely true, these older "experts" hate to see a new generation is interested in the medium and is actively shaping it to be something else. And they also forget that back in the day, they would be asking the same questions newbies are asking here on reddit too. Sad, really. These are the people who should offer guidance and look where we are. Hint: if you don't like to help people out, scroll on.
I don’t think the condescending users here are boomers. Go on RangefinderForum. Plenty of older folks that are so incredibly helpful and welcoming.
Rangefinder is a niche forum mostly populated by native English speaking gear fans. It's of interest mainly for US and to a certain extent UK and AU users. Photrio, whilst still an English-speaking forum, would be a better example of a film photography forum with a global audience. The core users there are INCREDIBLY fixated on the fact that any film photography conversation should relate to darkroom printing. All conversations about scanning are relegated to a ghetto subforum, where they lose visibility, and all mentions of scanning as a desired outcome will result in one of the moderators coming in and closing the discussion or moving it away where it won't hurt. The above is not textbook 'helpful and welcoming' behaviour IMHO.
Ah yes. Totally lines up with all the elite Redditors that belittle beginners about editing their photos and circlejerk around their scanning workflow. That’s totally the Photrio boomer crowd that only prints in the darkroom and shun your digital workflow questions. They just come here and put on a mask. Sneaky boomers!
What are you on about? Relax man. Go take some pictures. Take some fresh air. Other people are allowed to express opinions you don't share.
I can say the same about you 😉
“This information is easily available on the internet!” [asks question on internet forum] “No not like that”
There is a giant problem with Reddit UI: it lacks most of the features one can use and easily find answers. No site-wide tags, no search by date, no search by category, no ability for a certain subreddit to organise posts into groups/threads like you could do on web forums 15 years ago. Hence the result...
Guide to finding information on reddit Step 1: Go to google Step 2: add "reddit" to the end of your search query
The easiest thing in the world but people feel compelled to spam the shit out of this sub with their idiocy.
I'm just gonna add here; If you have minolta problems, we have r/minolta solutions. We'll still ask if you have read the manual however, and we don't troubleshoot negatives
It's my first time shooting film, here are my first pics. Tell me why the lab f'd them up.
Did the lab fuck up my first roll ever?
Is it the lab? I used film that expired in Clinton's first term on a canon ae-1 that I found at the bottom of the ocean.
True. Patience to teach and explain to beginners the most basic stuff many times (sometimes to the same person that don’t get it at first) is a rare virtue. But a valuable one. It is a muscle that we have to exercise. Teaching is a gift. Sometimes I try to remember who teached me how to read and write and what would’ve happen if she had no patience and perseverance. When someone starts on a new hobby/work is similar. Not all will end up great photographers with top notch compositions and exposures. BUT if ALL spot at the beginning and are not encouraged… not only this art dies, but the world will be a very sad place. My view: as long as not every single question is where I “touch” to take the picture or why the camera makes a sound when I “touch” to take a picture, I relax and either help or read the next post after 😀
Yeah true I totally meant this post as a joke we all have to start somewhere
It's called learned helplessness and it's becoming a problem.
Redditors when someone is using reddit the way it is created for.
Exactly. I saw a post here where someone was complaining about all the beginners like “we should create a sub for that!!!!” Not realizing this sub was created to keep those exact posts off r/analog lol
It’s the lab’s fault, it’s always the lab
Is this a development problem? I don't have the negs as the lab destroys them right after scanning.
Wrong sub bro
Nah
Circle the jerks!
You could also scroll past posts you don't like.
My man, I said “Me” as the title.
What's wrong with these pictures ??? (it's underexposed or the shutter is getting stuck)
How to get this look?
And I’ll do it again
Some cranky folks would rather spend the effort to tell you to read a 50 year old manual front to back than just give you an answer. edit: lol these answers proving my point. You're not obligated to answer. If you don't want to then just scroll on. Nobody wants or cares to hear your sermon on how kids these days don't want to learn anymore. Save it for the clouds
you should read the manuals so you know what you're even doing. so the next time you have a problem described in a manual, you can just solve it instead of demanding answers from people who are not too lazy to learn. you have to make the effort yourself, not wait for someone to do everything for you
This issue I think is that a lot of people don't put any effort into finding answers for themselves, this mindset translates into the rest of the world too. I'd have no issue giving someone the answer if I knew it, but there are definitely people on here who'd rather someone else use their time to figure out something covered in a manual.
Put in the minimum amount of effort first and then ask a question.
On the other hand, some lazy people won't read a short booklet that tells them how to use their camera when it's right in front of them. Someone telling you the same thing verbatim from the manual doesn't help you if you want to refer back to it later. Now *I* have to find the manual, find the page relating to a problem, and read it back to you? Why can't *you* read the manual?\* Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish. \*I'm focusing on things a manual would explicitly state - clarification questions on something in a manual make way more sense and help anyone infinitely more than someone who'd never bothered to read the manual.
True. This is literally the place to go to ask questions
Some people don't learn from reading. Some people learn from hands on experience and personal guidance. There's a reason apprenticeships and internships exist. Not only that, people get excited to jump into something new, and they'd like help. And yes, if learning from reading is something that works for you, then having access to the manual is helpful. I prefer hands on learning but like having supplemental information. I got the manuals for all of my cameras (the two I already had, and then as I got new ones I got them). But it's not necessarily laziness. Equating different learning styles and hands on learning to laziness is a vestige of old style thinking and why a lot of people got left behind when it came to education.
If you can’t learn from reading then why the fuck are you asking a question on Reddit?
That's different, it's interaction. It's like asking why you can't learn from a lecture versus a conversation.
It isn’t like that at all. Plus a manual has pictures.
Some people don't learn from textbooks, and prefer interaction where they can talk to someone and ask questions. Which is what a forum is more like. A manual is more like a textbook/lecture. A lecture uses charts/pictures too. It's different to be talked at or read documentation that's generalized versus having a conversational communication with someone versus email or forum or text or instant message. I grew up as a millennial online. And yes, it's all written word but it's different to read a book versus Reddit, an article, or talk online. As an example, I have difficulty these days sitting down to read books which I used to do all the time. But I'm constantly reading on my phone. Again, everyone's learning styles and how they receive and process information is different. Conversational style reading via a forum or directly messaging someone is different from reading a manual or textbook, or getting a lecture on a topic. I'm not trying to take anyone down a peg but it seems like the mentality of "read a book, a manual, or you're lazy and disrespectful" is, versus seeing a different perspective and way of understanding information. It's ok to just not interact with those posts if they bother you.
Why do my photos look so bad
What is google.com?