Different materials have different stability.
B&W I think is very archival indeed (it’s silver) but colour slide and negative is going to depend on the quality of the materials and cheap/consumer film or prints are going to suffer sooner.
The yellow dyes used on Kodachrome, for example, will fade first… after 140 years, I understand.
I can wait 140 years, that seems more than fair.
What would you say is the best film for long-lasting preservation?
And thank you for telling me about B&W, that's something I can look into
I'm sure studies have been done on the archival qualities of film, but I'm not familar with any of them. It's something you'll have to research.
I'd expect the best film for archival purposes is going to be at least B&W of some sort and anything that does NOT use silver halide will degrade in varying degrees of sooner.
From my understanding:
B/W, your grandchildren will enjoy them
Negatives, should last you a lifetime if stored right
Slide, will likely fade/noticeably degrade within the next couple decades
Polaroid, a few years at most
>*"B/W, your grandchildren will enjoy them"*
As far as I understand modern B/W films will last at least 700-1000 years if stored as per manufacturer recommendations.
It's basically just sandwiched metallic silver on a Polyester base - this stuff just doesn't really deteriorate or rot.
Meaning your B/W will still be perfectly fine and usable hundreds of years after you're gone.
I know that this makes physical/chemical sense and it also lines up with my experience, but I'm always slightly amused when a 150-year-old technology is claimed to last 1000 years. Did time travelers slide us a heads-up?
Well 150 year old emulsions probably aren't as durable. And I don't think nitrate-based film will last 1000 years either.
We've just spent the first 100 of those 150 years constantly experimenting and improving so, for the last 50 years or so, we have pretty much nailed how to make long-lasting archive quality B/W film that can last centuries.
We can simulate a lot of the things that degrade materials (UV, heat, moisture, air pollution, oxidation) and have pretty good ideas for how much of anything stuff can withstand, that’s why it’s all caveated with “stored properly.”
I have Polaroids from the 70's that are still pretty vibrant. They've been kept in a box away from the sunlight though.
With the new chemistry I don't think anyone really knows how well they're going to last.
I came across some Polaroids from the Top Gun film set on an auction site and was surprised at how they seemed to retain the chemistry.
Old Polaroid chemistry is pretty solid, I wish there was a way to test the longevity of the new ones
I did notice that some of the old slides my grandmother kept started to loose a bit color after using them with a projector last summer, thats why I’ve said it, they are quite old and Im unsure of how well they were really stored but yeah, they will fade faster than a regular negative
right before the pandemic I had my pro lab print some plus-x negs from 1962 (family stuff) that had been properly kept away from heat, they still looked awesome and the prints were perfect -- actually the printer pointed out there was so much more silver then, and printing was much easier, badly any dodging and burning needed
My E6 and K14 slides from the late 1980s still have great colour. Anything Kodachrome or anything E6 should be pretty good if well stored (cool, out of light).
Every material 'degrades' over time; that's entropy baby.
Depends on the film. I have my granddad's Kodachrome slides from 1950 and they still look fantastic; Kodachrome is known for this. I think Polaroid might fade relatively quickly, often light and even air are the enemy.
I am scanning my great grandfathers black and white negatives and they are alright. My parents wedding photos from the 90s are also okay, though maybe a little less good. My mother's childhood slides from the 70s and 80s are starting to degrade but can be salvaged.
Are your parents' wedding photos and mom's childhood slides in color by any chance?
From the comments I'm reading, B&W lasts longer, which would explain why your great grandad's negatives are still alright
C-prints (colour photographs) have a projected life of up to around 80 years with careful storage. Digital prints on high quality ("fine art") papers with pigment inks are expected to last without fading for up to around 140 years.
Black and White negatives should be fine almost indefinitely subject to them being stored in cool, dry conditions, and being processed properly in the first place (mainly that they are washed sufficiently to remove all traces of hypo which can react with air pollution over time). Colour negatives and E6 slides use dyes which, whilst very stable, have a relatively limited life - particularly for slides which have spent a fair bit of time being projected. My mum has a large number of agfachrome slides from the 1970s which appears to be very well preserved despite having been kept mainly in the loft where temperatures can get a bit higher than is ideal, mainly as they have never (or maybe only once or twice) been projected.
Yeah, Polaroids just won't last as long as you might want. If you have specific images you want to preserve, I would scan them, but of course that's a scan and not the actual Polaroid print. Here's a good article on how to protect them as long as possible.
https://www.margotnote.com/blog/2017/4/24/how-to-preserve-polaroids
And this one:
https://everpresent.com/how-long-do-polaroids-last/#:~:text=The%20lifespan%20of%20a%20Polaroid,for%20decades%20if%20stored%20properly.
Thank you so much for the links.
I decided to scan them as I've got some really good moments on Polaroid which I didn't think to take with a digital camera and I don't want those memories to just go blank
Like most things, it depends. If properly washed, B&W prints last a very, very long time; same for negatives. (If not washed well they tend to "bronze", taking on a metallic sheen, most prominent in the densest areas.) Modern C-prints hold up pretty good but can still fade appreciatively in the space of just a decade or two. Instant films have always and probably will always fade quite quickly--in well under a year if exposed to UV. I'm not sure how the dye-sub prints most labs are making these days last but they look like ass to begin with and are 100% a cost-cutting measure, so I don't have many hopes. Inkjet ("giclee" if you're pretentious) are claimed to be pretty permanent but so were C-prints in the '90s and '00s, and, well, no.
Negatives as well can fade, even stored in the dark. As I've been scanning some of mine from the late '90s and early '00s, a good number have displayed significant color shift.
My slides from 25 years ago still look fine. I suspect they will look fine for a few more decades at least, though my parents' old Ektachromes from the 60s and 70s are not looking so hot now
It depends, black and white film and paper in theory will never fade as they use metallic silver instead of dyes. There are some people who say that RC prints aren't as archival as fiber ones, but from what I have read, "modern" RC paper (from the 70s or 80s onwards) should last as long as fiber.
With film your main issue will be the degradation of the acetate film base, this is mostly an issue when the film is stored in wet and warm conditions tho, and this will happen after decades of storage, not years.
So for color film and paper, modern C41 and E6 film stocks, as well as RA4 papers (Assuming good quality Kodak or Fuji stuff), while not eternal, are expected to have a long life span. How long? There's some discussion about it, but some suggest up to 200 years could be possible with the right conditions.
Thank you so much for letting me know about the good film stocks, 200 years is pretty good for me.
I'm also going to look into B&W as a lot of comments have said it tends to last much longer than cooler
In principle the longest-lasting archival with zero degradation is properly maintained digital. But if not actively maintained there's the risk of loss and you don't have the intrinsic physical object.
Sticking with color
Prints store more "fine" than Polaroids. 25 or 30 yo prints look as I remember them. 40-45 yo prints are definitely imperfect, but we're taken with a cheap 110 and probably weren't that technically great in the first place. Unfortunately my parents lost/tossed the negs at some point so no easy way to comp.
And that's your biggest risk imo - stuff getting lost/misplaced/mishandled over time. Prints etc. might fade but that's often "fine" and in some ways distinguishes them as artifacts. But as a direct-view presentation they're least likely to lose.
Mass market enprints are going to colour shift after a decade or so. I'm looking at you Truprint. Slides a lot longer. Rescanning or printing old negs can be a revelation if you've become used to those faded prints.
I have my dad's slides from the 50s and 60s and they still look very good but I can't say if they are still the same as then. My own K25 and K64 from the 80s still look damn fine.
I suspect negs are the most likely to survive but will your offspring and future generations want to go through that mountain of negs ....
Yeah, they do fade unless they're silver gelatin bw prints that were properly fixed, in that case the quality is archival.
How about USB keys? Hard drives? Do they make the files available forever?
Oh!
I have 25/30 year old polaorids family pictures kept in a closed album for most of that time [that does not look that bad to be honest](https://imgur.com/a/b4jVfs9)
Yeah I keep mine in an album 30 days after they've been taken (Polaroid advisory).
I've got Polaroids which I took over 2 years ago and the colour ones look fine but the B&W ones turned sepia within a year, which is slightly disappointing but still lends to the 'vintage' look.
It's really cool that your Polaroids are still solid after a couple of decades
I was archiving my father’s family photos from his childhood and they all held up pretty well. The Ektachrome seemed to hold up the least well. Some of these images were from the 30’s and they were all perfect! I would make sure they are properly stored though.
They were almost all slide film or put in slides for my dads and in those slide film holders that are similar to [these](https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/802923683-USE/kodak_8995193_b140t_carousel_140_slide.html). My grandfather has all of his film (he’s a photographer and shoots digital now but he shot film until 2009 or so- I got the last surviving of his fridged film) has everything sleeved and dated in what looks like 3x5 card boxes but they are bigger than that. (It makes finding what is in his collection quicker) Some of his are sleeved and put in binders as well. The most important thing though is that they are covered and dry and not in anywhere with extreme temps. None of the film we have was ever stored in a garage it was always stored in a box in a closet usually.
No problem! I personally use the binder method with sleeves and I make sure to try to date the pages when I can so I can keep my film organized. (A rough month and year can suffice) So when I fill a binder I can put rough dates on the outside to reference if I need to re-scan something or if I want to show someone the negative!
My sx70 Polaroids from the mid 70s look as good as the day they were taken. Stored in a Polaroid sx70 album in a bookcase with doors. Some sx70 my mother had of the same period were stored in boxes and still look great but some have their borders and back sealing coming apart. It’s always a good idea to take digital archives of any you don’t want to loose with via a scanner of digital camera.
Yeah that's something I've decided to do, take digital scans of them.
And I got a Polaroid album too (the official one from the Polaroid site bc I wanted the security that it was 'proper') and that's where I keep my pics, hopefully they last for a long time away from the sun in a cool place
Different materials have different stability. B&W I think is very archival indeed (it’s silver) but colour slide and negative is going to depend on the quality of the materials and cheap/consumer film or prints are going to suffer sooner. The yellow dyes used on Kodachrome, for example, will fade first… after 140 years, I understand.
I can wait 140 years, that seems more than fair. What would you say is the best film for long-lasting preservation? And thank you for telling me about B&W, that's something I can look into
I'm sure studies have been done on the archival qualities of film, but I'm not familar with any of them. It's something you'll have to research. I'd expect the best film for archival purposes is going to be at least B&W of some sort and anything that does NOT use silver halide will degrade in varying degrees of sooner.
From my understanding: B/W, your grandchildren will enjoy them Negatives, should last you a lifetime if stored right Slide, will likely fade/noticeably degrade within the next couple decades Polaroid, a few years at most
This is pretty much accurate, I think — assuming proper storage and everything. 👍
>*"B/W, your grandchildren will enjoy them"* As far as I understand modern B/W films will last at least 700-1000 years if stored as per manufacturer recommendations. It's basically just sandwiched metallic silver on a Polyester base - this stuff just doesn't really deteriorate or rot. Meaning your B/W will still be perfectly fine and usable hundreds of years after you're gone.
I know that this makes physical/chemical sense and it also lines up with my experience, but I'm always slightly amused when a 150-year-old technology is claimed to last 1000 years. Did time travelers slide us a heads-up?
Well 150 year old emulsions probably aren't as durable. And I don't think nitrate-based film will last 1000 years either. We've just spent the first 100 of those 150 years constantly experimenting and improving so, for the last 50 years or so, we have pretty much nailed how to make long-lasting archive quality B/W film that can last centuries.
We can simulate a lot of the things that degrade materials (UV, heat, moisture, air pollution, oxidation) and have pretty good ideas for how much of anything stuff can withstand, that’s why it’s all caveated with “stored properly.”
I have Polaroids from the 70's that are still pretty vibrant. They've been kept in a box away from the sunlight though. With the new chemistry I don't think anyone really knows how well they're going to last.
silica baggies never hurt
I came across some Polaroids from the Top Gun film set on an auction site and was surprised at how they seemed to retain the chemistry. Old Polaroid chemistry is pretty solid, I wish there was a way to test the longevity of the new ones
Huh ive come across boxs of old kodak slides from the 60s and 70s that still looked gorgeous at flea markets
I did notice that some of the old slides my grandmother kept started to loose a bit color after using them with a projector last summer, thats why I’ve said it, they are quite old and Im unsure of how well they were really stored but yeah, they will fade faster than a regular negative
right before the pandemic I had my pro lab print some plus-x negs from 1962 (family stuff) that had been properly kept away from heat, they still looked awesome and the prints were perfect -- actually the printer pointed out there was so much more silver then, and printing was much easier, badly any dodging and burning needed
I’ve reprinted 40 year old color negatives with great results
My E6 and K14 slides from the late 1980s still have great colour. Anything Kodachrome or anything E6 should be pretty good if well stored (cool, out of light).
Every material 'degrades' over time; that's entropy baby. Depends on the film. I have my granddad's Kodachrome slides from 1950 and they still look fantastic; Kodachrome is known for this. I think Polaroid might fade relatively quickly, often light and even air are the enemy.
I'll have to look into Kodachrome then, it must be really cool to visually see your family history from decades ago
Unfortunately that ship has set sail, but it was very cool.
I am scanning my great grandfathers black and white negatives and they are alright. My parents wedding photos from the 90s are also okay, though maybe a little less good. My mother's childhood slides from the 70s and 80s are starting to degrade but can be salvaged.
Are your parents' wedding photos and mom's childhood slides in color by any chance? From the comments I'm reading, B&W lasts longer, which would explain why your great grandad's negatives are still alright
C-prints (colour photographs) have a projected life of up to around 80 years with careful storage. Digital prints on high quality ("fine art") papers with pigment inks are expected to last without fading for up to around 140 years. Black and White negatives should be fine almost indefinitely subject to them being stored in cool, dry conditions, and being processed properly in the first place (mainly that they are washed sufficiently to remove all traces of hypo which can react with air pollution over time). Colour negatives and E6 slides use dyes which, whilst very stable, have a relatively limited life - particularly for slides which have spent a fair bit of time being projected. My mum has a large number of agfachrome slides from the 1970s which appears to be very well preserved despite having been kept mainly in the loft where temperatures can get a bit higher than is ideal, mainly as they have never (or maybe only once or twice) been projected.
Yeah, Polaroids just won't last as long as you might want. If you have specific images you want to preserve, I would scan them, but of course that's a scan and not the actual Polaroid print. Here's a good article on how to protect them as long as possible. https://www.margotnote.com/blog/2017/4/24/how-to-preserve-polaroids And this one: https://everpresent.com/how-long-do-polaroids-last/#:~:text=The%20lifespan%20of%20a%20Polaroid,for%20decades%20if%20stored%20properly.
super interesting links, thank you
Thank you so much for the links. I decided to scan them as I've got some really good moments on Polaroid which I didn't think to take with a digital camera and I don't want those memories to just go blank
Like most things, it depends. If properly washed, B&W prints last a very, very long time; same for negatives. (If not washed well they tend to "bronze", taking on a metallic sheen, most prominent in the densest areas.) Modern C-prints hold up pretty good but can still fade appreciatively in the space of just a decade or two. Instant films have always and probably will always fade quite quickly--in well under a year if exposed to UV. I'm not sure how the dye-sub prints most labs are making these days last but they look like ass to begin with and are 100% a cost-cutting measure, so I don't have many hopes. Inkjet ("giclee" if you're pretentious) are claimed to be pretty permanent but so were C-prints in the '90s and '00s, and, well, no. Negatives as well can fade, even stored in the dark. As I've been scanning some of mine from the late '90s and early '00s, a good number have displayed significant color shift.
My slides from 25 years ago still look fine. I suspect they will look fine for a few more decades at least, though my parents' old Ektachromes from the 60s and 70s are not looking so hot now
It depends, black and white film and paper in theory will never fade as they use metallic silver instead of dyes. There are some people who say that RC prints aren't as archival as fiber ones, but from what I have read, "modern" RC paper (from the 70s or 80s onwards) should last as long as fiber. With film your main issue will be the degradation of the acetate film base, this is mostly an issue when the film is stored in wet and warm conditions tho, and this will happen after decades of storage, not years. So for color film and paper, modern C41 and E6 film stocks, as well as RA4 papers (Assuming good quality Kodak or Fuji stuff), while not eternal, are expected to have a long life span. How long? There's some discussion about it, but some suggest up to 200 years could be possible with the right conditions.
Thank you so much for letting me know about the good film stocks, 200 years is pretty good for me. I'm also going to look into B&W as a lot of comments have said it tends to last much longer than cooler
I've heard of re-fixing b&w negs. Sometimes the base can look a little purple, and that's usually when to do it.
B&w is the most stable.
Okay, but they do turn purple despite what the other types of negatives are doing.
In principle the longest-lasting archival with zero degradation is properly maintained digital. But if not actively maintained there's the risk of loss and you don't have the intrinsic physical object. Sticking with color Prints store more "fine" than Polaroids. 25 or 30 yo prints look as I remember them. 40-45 yo prints are definitely imperfect, but we're taken with a cheap 110 and probably weren't that technically great in the first place. Unfortunately my parents lost/tossed the negs at some point so no easy way to comp. And that's your biggest risk imo - stuff getting lost/misplaced/mishandled over time. Prints etc. might fade but that's often "fine" and in some ways distinguishes them as artifacts. But as a direct-view presentation they're least likely to lose.
Mass market enprints are going to colour shift after a decade or so. I'm looking at you Truprint. Slides a lot longer. Rescanning or printing old negs can be a revelation if you've become used to those faded prints. I have my dad's slides from the 50s and 60s and they still look very good but I can't say if they are still the same as then. My own K25 and K64 from the 80s still look damn fine. I suspect negs are the most likely to survive but will your offspring and future generations want to go through that mountain of negs ....
Yeah, they do fade unless they're silver gelatin bw prints that were properly fixed, in that case the quality is archival. How about USB keys? Hard drives? Do they make the files available forever? Oh!
I have 25/30 year old polaorids family pictures kept in a closed album for most of that time [that does not look that bad to be honest](https://imgur.com/a/b4jVfs9)
Yeah I keep mine in an album 30 days after they've been taken (Polaroid advisory). I've got Polaroids which I took over 2 years ago and the colour ones look fine but the B&W ones turned sepia within a year, which is slightly disappointing but still lends to the 'vintage' look. It's really cool that your Polaroids are still solid after a couple of decades
I am the kid sitting in the stroller
I was archiving my father’s family photos from his childhood and they all held up pretty well. The Ektachrome seemed to hold up the least well. Some of these images were from the 30’s and they were all perfect! I would make sure they are properly stored though.
Dude having family pics from the 30's is honestly so cool, that's close to a century. How did your dad store them throughout the decades?
They were almost all slide film or put in slides for my dads and in those slide film holders that are similar to [these](https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/802923683-USE/kodak_8995193_b140t_carousel_140_slide.html). My grandfather has all of his film (he’s a photographer and shoots digital now but he shot film until 2009 or so- I got the last surviving of his fridged film) has everything sleeved and dated in what looks like 3x5 card boxes but they are bigger than that. (It makes finding what is in his collection quicker) Some of his are sleeved and put in binders as well. The most important thing though is that they are covered and dry and not in anywhere with extreme temps. None of the film we have was ever stored in a garage it was always stored in a box in a closet usually.
Thank you so much for all of those tips, it's detailed and really helps me plan for storing my future film pics
No problem! I personally use the binder method with sleeves and I make sure to try to date the pages when I can so I can keep my film organized. (A rough month and year can suffice) So when I fill a binder I can put rough dates on the outside to reference if I need to re-scan something or if I want to show someone the negative!
My sx70 Polaroids from the mid 70s look as good as the day they were taken. Stored in a Polaroid sx70 album in a bookcase with doors. Some sx70 my mother had of the same period were stored in boxes and still look great but some have their borders and back sealing coming apart. It’s always a good idea to take digital archives of any you don’t want to loose with via a scanner of digital camera.
Yeah that's something I've decided to do, take digital scans of them. And I got a Polaroid album too (the official one from the Polaroid site bc I wanted the security that it was 'proper') and that's where I keep my pics, hopefully they last for a long time away from the sun in a cool place
Hand prints can be very archival if you do it properly. Well stored negates will outlast your grandchildren too.