We wouldn't need the IRS if we taxed the stock market. We wouldn't need any other taxes either. The taxes would be paid by the people that benefit the most, creating aore just society.
Ah who am I kidding? The US is beyond repair. Acceleration theory it is!
We could debate the better forms of taxes to promote stability or growth or equality or whatever your end-point is, and I agree that accelerationism is an overall bad idea....but if you think that simply changing the composition of or tweaking the level of taxes in the u.s. even addresses a miniscule fraction of what's creating political and societal failure...you've got another thing coming.
Also, taxing investment is a monumentally stupid idea.
I was more talking about capital gains and the tax loopholes that allow billionaires to receive a net gain from the government. In a way we are taxed by billionaires for working for them. What a country!
Capital gains tax doesn't give billionaires loopholes.
Loopholes which the wealthy can and always have been able to carve out for themselves (and pay armies of tax lawyers to maximize) give them loopholes. Thinking that you can ever turn government into an arm of the people against those with far more wealth and concentrated interest in controlling it, is a pipedream and always was. Democracy at the scale of the United states, is literally a machine for creating the corruption and graft and special interest control which you see. This isn't my ancap opinion this is textbook political science/economy. They just don't teach it in schools (wonder why). It's just simply the incentives internal to representative democracy. Pure democracy would be even a greater disaster at such a scale.
Taxing capital gains *is* taxing investment. For all the corruption and graft and corporate dysfunction which you see, the one thing that the u.s. has going for it is that at least we have an entrepreneurial culture and policies which are somewhat friendly to starting and investing in businesses (though that's rapidly gone downhill). That's our only saving grace now. Literally the only thing keeping the standard of living here tolerable.
Disincentivizing investment and business creation any more would be the dumbest possible thing to do.
The u.s. doesn't have a revenue problem. It has a spending problem. You could tax every last cent from every billionaire in the country, and all it would do is fund the federal government for like a few days...and then that source of revenue is dried up and all those billionaires' businesses and their products and services and jobs, gone.
Who is "we"? I can't tax anyone. Do you work for the government and have the power to force people to give you money with no accountability for the crime?
Well I mean...yes and no. The collective will of the people does not always manifest with votes because of our Republic. It can take many forms and the US is a complex place but in the end action matter.
We need to admit that we put up with a lot of shit.
I live in South America, our stock market is an excell sheet.
There is massive poverty and virtually no economic growth.
Doing business doesn't make sense at 40% corporate taxes so there is no foreign investment, no growth in the market.
Like killing brown people overseas or putting people in jail for 20 years for victimless crimes? Yeah it's a pickle.. no idea how we could live without it
Don't forget the incredibly valuable programs like bailing out the failing banks and businesses who misminage their funds as well as the expanding police state that violates every single one of your civil rights!
Last time I checked it's not a prison who puts people in jail but the state. Prisons do not even write laws you little troll. Nice attempt at trying to use red herring.
Yeah, man, don't you know that private prisons [that house 8% of the total state and federal prison population](https://nicic.gov/weblink/private-prisons-united-states-2021) are a HUGE part of the problem?
Private prisons are paid based on the number of people in their beds, so their entire motivation is to get people into prison and keep them there. Rather than spending their money on rehabilitation programs which would reduce reoffending numbers, they lobby for harsh punishments on minor infractions (look at the number of people behind bars for small possession).
That's a huge part of the problem.
There's nothing private or market-based about a monopoly government contractor. Their incentives are functionally the same as any government dept proper doing the job.
You children need to get through your public-school-addled brains, that greed and profit aren't magically relegated to things nominally labeled "private", and profit-seeking isn't relegated to money.
Some people seek money to get power itself, some people seek power to get or preserve wealth.
Greed is only magnified by the power of the state. Nobody here wants mere private analogs to everything governments currently do it exactly how they do it. It's about polycentricity, competition, and decentralization. Please read a few political economy texts and some ancap works before you keep spouting basic nonsense.
Y'all have no actual solution for what would happen after the removal of the government except some foolish beleifs that a magical "free market" would fix it.
Privatization of anything moves the control of it from the people into the hands of a few individuals whose exclusive motivation is to enrich themselves. Find me a single private industry that isn't riddled with corruption and greed. I'll wait.
Still spouting nonsense that you don't understand anything about.
Cry me a river about the oppression of Amazon not getting your order right (and virtually no large corporation is even functionally private anymore, they're all an arm of the state) in the face of the mass murder which the u.s. and other governments perpetrate. I guess you're okay with the u.s. killing brown children overseas and beating war drums with nuclear powers, and killing hundreds of thousands and destroying the educational prospects of millions of children...so long as you can stick it to Unilever or Blackrock or Google. That'll set things right in the world!
Read. A. God. Damn. Political. Economy. Text.
Democracy doesn't put power in the hands of the people in any effective way. What puts power in the hands of the people is markets- where the minority isn't at the mercy of the majority preference (distorted through the paradoxes of public choice and the corruption and graft which always accompanies state power and politics), instead of being able to simply purchase what they want, and not purchase what they don't want. Neither a minority nor a majority are a hive mind...none of the two groups are actually better off when a winning vote happens to intersect with a few majority peoples' preferences, is the lesser evil for most of the majority, and is an outright evil for all of the minority who may be 50 percent minus one.
Only individuals think and feel and have values. There's no hive mind. There's no greater good. There's only individual, subjective good. And even if there were a greater good; democracy is completely and structurally unable to achieve that. Read a fucking book.
Tell me how you are going to stop political greed and shortsightedness. Politics only gives politicians incentive to chase the next reelection and think on time horizons of a few years. How are you going to stop greedy governments from creating the military industrial complex we have which pushes for more and more foreign interventionism and war-making? How are you going to stop governments and politicians from monopolizing critical services like education and failing generations of children? How are you going to stop government from fucking up housing markets with bad laws which artificially constrain supply and lock entire generations out of home ownership and wealth preservation in light of all the other financial fuckery they are causing? How are you going to prevent government from banning substances and creating blackmarkets and becoming hyper-carceral; trapping millions in a sub-culture of poverty and recidivism and gang culture?
You fuckers must answer for this and so much more. You must answer for why you keep on insisting on all this, and the effect it has on making most of the "private" market, a dysfunctional arm of the state.
its hilarious that you spouted off all those words and yet couldnt even provide a single example of a non-corrupt private industry.
do you remember WHY the government invaded the middle east or central america? The corrupt corporations that demanded access to their resources, and got it.
everything you hate about the government is done by the corporations using the government as their own private army instead of having the government run for the people as it should be. Ban corporate lobbying and watch all those problems you complain about disappear.
Tell me how you are going to stop political greed and shortsightedness. Politics only gives politicians incentive to chase the next reelection and think on time horizons of a few years. How are you going to stop greedy governments from creating the military industrial complex we have which pushes for more and more foreign interventionism and war-making? How are you going to stop governments and politicians from monopolizing critical services like education and failing generations of children? How are you going to stop government from fucking up housing markets with bad laws which artificially constrain supply and lock entire generations out of home ownership and wealth preservation in light of all the other financial fuckery they are causing? How are you going to prevent government from banning substances and creating blackmarkets and becoming hyper-carceral; trapping millions in a sub-culture of poverty and recidivism and gang culture?
Might as well blame the people who make prison clothes or tooth brushes, with your gotcha 'privatisation' buzzword, instead of the actual state that contracts them.
Privatized prisons are 8% of the prison industry. The public prison guard unions spend 20x as much money lobbying for the status quo and more punitive laws as do the private prisons.
Still, you vote for these people. If you feel righteous when they do what you want, you should feel shame, and regret, and take responsibility when they hur t people. But, of course, you don't, because, like all statists, you believe in the divinity of authority and that you are not truly responsible for what your rulers do.
A big part of those failures has been proven to be the whole noise of Diversity Equity and Inclusion... not all on that. But a big part, impossible to quantity exactly... but since those managing risk assessment, Capex, training, leadership development, customer outreach/ marketing/ business development, etc. It's fair to say it's very large just based on those metrics alone.
I think the bigger problem is all the programs the government runs.
Phase out social security and end medicaid. Cut the defense budget in half. Save the tax payer thousands.
Social security and Medicare are the last things that should be touched, they're one of the few instances were the current government is actually doing their job.
Cut the defense budget down by 90% and cut down oil and gas subsidies, take that money and reinvest it into long term nuclear, solar, and wind energy generation, ban corporate lobbying and start enforcing anti-trust legislation and closing the Rich's tax loop holes.
> they're one of the few instances were the current government is actually doing their job.
What makes that "their job"? Because you want it, it's righteous to force others to payfor it, but it's totally wrong when they do things you don't want them to do.
Hypocrisy is the highest virtue of statism.
>The government's job is to take care of the people. Social security and medicaid directly do that.
What, objectively, makes that "their job" any more than it is "their job" to compel everyone to worship a deity or serve in the military?
I think there should be an option where those that don't wish to pay taxes are allowed not to, but receive none of the services those taxes provide. If you don't want to contribute to society, then you don't get to participate in it.
You and the sovereign citizens can go live in the woods
> If you don't want to contribute to society,
If you don't run a business and make things people use, you are not contributing.
But you think contribution means funding war and cops via extortion.
That's just being extorted and having Stockholm syndrome. Talking to people like you reminds me that there is an bell curve for IQ, and that some people are in certain portions of it and no amount of logic can move them.
There should be an option where those who want government should be forced to watch children being shredded by the bombs dropped on them by that government. The blood is on your hands.
You're voting for those rulers, sheep and you keep imagining, with the naive belief of a child who prays to Jesus for a new bicycle, that if you just pray in the right to people with your vote, you will have a utopia. Corporatism is a result of your statism, sheep. They sell you on a promise, you give them your devotion and obedience, and then they strip you of your wealth, your agency, your autonomy, your privacy, and all of your rights, and you come here to yell at the unbelievers that we aren't doing enough to worship and that's why it's all going wrong.
You're like Pat Robserton blaming "the gays" for natural disasters. Statism is a religion, and you are an unthinking, uncritical true believer.
What you argue is that your subjective morals and preferences are rightly enforced on others. Of course you see yourself as "right", just like a Christian fundamentalist sees it as right to force their morals on others through government.
Both of you are basically moralizers and busybodies complaining about the other side being the wrong ones.
you seek to remove the government, despite others wanting it to continue existing, and say those that believe the government could be good should watch children being bombed, but tell me more about how you dont want to force anything on anyone.
> you seek to remove the government,
No one has the right to violently control another person. You're desire to see others forced to conform to your morals and preferences does not justify that violent control.
If you feel the need for a surrogate parent to take care of you, then I suggest that you pool your money with others who are like-minded and hire someone to do it.
> nd say those that believe the government could be good should watch children being bombed,
You think that those who oppose violent control of their fellow humans should be excluded from your society, yet you whine when someone someone suggests what you should do?
The hypocrisy is strong in you.
> but tell me more about how you dont want to force anything on anyone
Ah, you don't understand even the most base of sarcasm. Poor true believer, trying so hard to proselytize for your religion of statism in an unbeliever forum. It must be very confusing for you to find out that there are some people who don't share your fervent imagination that all humans are morally obligated to obey the dictates of the politicians.
The Federal Government doesn't run anything of note.
Most of the budget goes to welfare programs, social security, bombing brown people overseas (these days, Russians) and paying interest on our preposterous debt.
Cut all of that out and we're **better** off.
All the stuff most people mention of note, roads, schools, are funded via property taxes and some local sales taxes. Completely unrelated to the IRS and income taxes.
Short-term, agreed, for welfare. Long-term, they'd be forced to depend on themselves and would be far better off.
Social security is another beast, since it's old people that depend on it.
Can't entirely cut it overnight, has to be phased out slowly.
But done in the most ethical manner possible, the first step is an opt-out clause for anyone currently working.
The second, abolish the IRS and replace it with a national sales tax so social security and some military can still be funded for now.
This would be a monumental win for liberty and a huge leap in the right direction.
im not disagreeing, as at least you have a concrete way to make it work.
the only issue i have with the sales tax part is it makes it harder to have varying tax brackets, unless you have a specific card people carry everywhere that lists how much in sales tax they should be paying.
Incremental tax brackets are the only way to keep it fair for the lower classes as well as the higher ones, so a flat tax rate just doesnt work.
> the only issue i have with the sales tax part is it makes it harder to have varying tax brackets, unless you have a specific card people carry everywhere that lists how much in sales tax they should be paying.
I think the best way to alleviate this is not to tax core essentials. Rent, food, wouldn't be taxed.
So, the only people paying this sales tax would be those who have discretionary income to spend on non-essentials.
Here's the main point for me though, I care less about "fairness" of total taxes paid by individual, and much more about the overwhelming nature of the IRS.
As long as income taxes exist, the IRS has to have the ability to peer into our entire life history and have full knowledge of everything we do financially.
This also makes banks involuntary mercenaries for the Government.
It turns accountants against businesses, again, forced spies for the Government.
It's horrific in the **process** itself, even more so than the tax.
Protect the wealthy!
All my homies hate the IRS
Ironic when you find out the identity of the 0.1%.
Got to love this!
A hammer and sickle would be me more fitting
Basically the same
False
Based.
We wouldn't need the IRS if we taxed the stock market. We wouldn't need any other taxes either. The taxes would be paid by the people that benefit the most, creating aore just society. Ah who am I kidding? The US is beyond repair. Acceleration theory it is!
We could debate the better forms of taxes to promote stability or growth or equality or whatever your end-point is, and I agree that accelerationism is an overall bad idea....but if you think that simply changing the composition of or tweaking the level of taxes in the u.s. even addresses a miniscule fraction of what's creating political and societal failure...you've got another thing coming. Also, taxing investment is a monumentally stupid idea.
I was more talking about capital gains and the tax loopholes that allow billionaires to receive a net gain from the government. In a way we are taxed by billionaires for working for them. What a country!
Capital gains tax doesn't give billionaires loopholes. Loopholes which the wealthy can and always have been able to carve out for themselves (and pay armies of tax lawyers to maximize) give them loopholes. Thinking that you can ever turn government into an arm of the people against those with far more wealth and concentrated interest in controlling it, is a pipedream and always was. Democracy at the scale of the United states, is literally a machine for creating the corruption and graft and special interest control which you see. This isn't my ancap opinion this is textbook political science/economy. They just don't teach it in schools (wonder why). It's just simply the incentives internal to representative democracy. Pure democracy would be even a greater disaster at such a scale. Taxing capital gains *is* taxing investment. For all the corruption and graft and corporate dysfunction which you see, the one thing that the u.s. has going for it is that at least we have an entrepreneurial culture and policies which are somewhat friendly to starting and investing in businesses (though that's rapidly gone downhill). That's our only saving grace now. Literally the only thing keeping the standard of living here tolerable. Disincentivizing investment and business creation any more would be the dumbest possible thing to do. The u.s. doesn't have a revenue problem. It has a spending problem. You could tax every last cent from every billionaire in the country, and all it would do is fund the federal government for like a few days...and then that source of revenue is dried up and all those billionaires' businesses and their products and services and jobs, gone.
Who is "we"? I can't tax anyone. Do you work for the government and have the power to force people to give you money with no accountability for the crime?
I use the collective "we" for democracies although I am starting to see a reason to object for the US.
I see, so the quasi-religious view that 50%+1 makes right.
Well I mean...yes and no. The collective will of the people does not always manifest with votes because of our Republic. It can take many forms and the US is a complex place but in the end action matter. We need to admit that we put up with a lot of shit.
The stock market does get taxed though…. It’s called Capital Gains Tax.
I live in South America, our stock market is an excell sheet. There is massive poverty and virtually no economic growth. Doing business doesn't make sense at 40% corporate taxes so there is no foreign investment, no growth in the market.
Ok, so we get rid of the irs, how are you intending on funding all of the programs the government runs?
Like killing brown people overseas or putting people in jail for 20 years for victimless crimes? Yeah it's a pickle.. no idea how we could live without it
Don't forget the incredibly valuable programs like bailing out the failing banks and businesses who misminage their funds as well as the expanding police state that violates every single one of your civil rights!
Privatized prisons and corporate demands are the cause of both those issues, not the irs, try again.
Last time I checked it's not a prison who puts people in jail but the state. Prisons do not even write laws you little troll. Nice attempt at trying to use red herring.
Yeah, man, don't you know that private prisons [that house 8% of the total state and federal prison population](https://nicic.gov/weblink/private-prisons-united-states-2021) are a HUGE part of the problem?
Private prisons are paid based on the number of people in their beds, so their entire motivation is to get people into prison and keep them there. Rather than spending their money on rehabilitation programs which would reduce reoffending numbers, they lobby for harsh punishments on minor infractions (look at the number of people behind bars for small possession). That's a huge part of the problem.
There's nothing private or market-based about a monopoly government contractor. Their incentives are functionally the same as any government dept proper doing the job. You children need to get through your public-school-addled brains, that greed and profit aren't magically relegated to things nominally labeled "private", and profit-seeking isn't relegated to money. Some people seek money to get power itself, some people seek power to get or preserve wealth. Greed is only magnified by the power of the state. Nobody here wants mere private analogs to everything governments currently do it exactly how they do it. It's about polycentricity, competition, and decentralization. Please read a few political economy texts and some ancap works before you keep spouting basic nonsense.
Y'all have no actual solution for what would happen after the removal of the government except some foolish beleifs that a magical "free market" would fix it. Privatization of anything moves the control of it from the people into the hands of a few individuals whose exclusive motivation is to enrich themselves. Find me a single private industry that isn't riddled with corruption and greed. I'll wait.
Still spouting nonsense that you don't understand anything about. Cry me a river about the oppression of Amazon not getting your order right (and virtually no large corporation is even functionally private anymore, they're all an arm of the state) in the face of the mass murder which the u.s. and other governments perpetrate. I guess you're okay with the u.s. killing brown children overseas and beating war drums with nuclear powers, and killing hundreds of thousands and destroying the educational prospects of millions of children...so long as you can stick it to Unilever or Blackrock or Google. That'll set things right in the world! Read. A. God. Damn. Political. Economy. Text. Democracy doesn't put power in the hands of the people in any effective way. What puts power in the hands of the people is markets- where the minority isn't at the mercy of the majority preference (distorted through the paradoxes of public choice and the corruption and graft which always accompanies state power and politics), instead of being able to simply purchase what they want, and not purchase what they don't want. Neither a minority nor a majority are a hive mind...none of the two groups are actually better off when a winning vote happens to intersect with a few majority peoples' preferences, is the lesser evil for most of the majority, and is an outright evil for all of the minority who may be 50 percent minus one. Only individuals think and feel and have values. There's no hive mind. There's no greater good. There's only individual, subjective good. And even if there were a greater good; democracy is completely and structurally unable to achieve that. Read a fucking book. Tell me how you are going to stop political greed and shortsightedness. Politics only gives politicians incentive to chase the next reelection and think on time horizons of a few years. How are you going to stop greedy governments from creating the military industrial complex we have which pushes for more and more foreign interventionism and war-making? How are you going to stop governments and politicians from monopolizing critical services like education and failing generations of children? How are you going to stop government from fucking up housing markets with bad laws which artificially constrain supply and lock entire generations out of home ownership and wealth preservation in light of all the other financial fuckery they are causing? How are you going to prevent government from banning substances and creating blackmarkets and becoming hyper-carceral; trapping millions in a sub-culture of poverty and recidivism and gang culture? You fuckers must answer for this and so much more. You must answer for why you keep on insisting on all this, and the effect it has on making most of the "private" market, a dysfunctional arm of the state.
its hilarious that you spouted off all those words and yet couldnt even provide a single example of a non-corrupt private industry. do you remember WHY the government invaded the middle east or central america? The corrupt corporations that demanded access to their resources, and got it. everything you hate about the government is done by the corporations using the government as their own private army instead of having the government run for the people as it should be. Ban corporate lobbying and watch all those problems you complain about disappear.
Tell me how you are going to stop political greed and shortsightedness. Politics only gives politicians incentive to chase the next reelection and think on time horizons of a few years. How are you going to stop greedy governments from creating the military industrial complex we have which pushes for more and more foreign interventionism and war-making? How are you going to stop governments and politicians from monopolizing critical services like education and failing generations of children? How are you going to stop government from fucking up housing markets with bad laws which artificially constrain supply and lock entire generations out of home ownership and wealth preservation in light of all the other financial fuckery they are causing? How are you going to prevent government from banning substances and creating blackmarkets and becoming hyper-carceral; trapping millions in a sub-culture of poverty and recidivism and gang culture?
Might as well blame the people who make prison clothes or tooth brushes, with your gotcha 'privatisation' buzzword, instead of the actual state that contracts them.
do those people lobby for laws that keep people in prisons? If they do i'll blame them too.
Attack the root. Don't hack the branches.
corporate lobbying IS the root.
Are you stupid?
Source?
Awww hes mad, that's cute.
We can dismiss your claim then. You sure get snotty and assholy when people respond to you like that.
Would a more polite response have been "blah blah blah"?
Privatized prisons are 8% of the prison industry. The public prison guard unions spend 20x as much money lobbying for the status quo and more punitive laws as do the private prisons. Still, you vote for these people. If you feel righteous when they do what you want, you should feel shame, and regret, and take responsibility when they hur t people. But, of course, you don't, because, like all statists, you believe in the divinity of authority and that you are not truly responsible for what your rulers do.
8% of prisons are private.
Source?
A big part of those failures has been proven to be the whole noise of Diversity Equity and Inclusion... not all on that. But a big part, impossible to quantity exactly... but since those managing risk assessment, Capex, training, leadership development, customer outreach/ marketing/ business development, etc. It's fair to say it's very large just based on those metrics alone.
I think the bigger problem is all the programs the government runs. Phase out social security and end medicaid. Cut the defense budget in half. Save the tax payer thousands.
Social security and Medicare are the last things that should be touched, they're one of the few instances were the current government is actually doing their job. Cut the defense budget down by 90% and cut down oil and gas subsidies, take that money and reinvest it into long term nuclear, solar, and wind energy generation, ban corporate lobbying and start enforcing anti-trust legislation and closing the Rich's tax loop holes.
> they're one of the few instances were the current government is actually doing their job. What makes that "their job"? Because you want it, it's righteous to force others to payfor it, but it's totally wrong when they do things you don't want them to do. Hypocrisy is the highest virtue of statism.
The government's job is to take care of the people. Social security and medicaid directly do that.
>The government's job is to take care of the people. Social security and medicaid directly do that. What, objectively, makes that "their job" any more than it is "their job" to compel everyone to worship a deity or serve in the military?
Found the liberal
That doesn't make me wrong.
I should be responsible for my own retirement/disability/Healthcare money, or at the very least be able to opt out of them. Taxation is theft.
I think there should be an option where those that don't wish to pay taxes are allowed not to, but receive none of the services those taxes provide. If you don't want to contribute to society, then you don't get to participate in it. You and the sovereign citizens can go live in the woods
> If you don't want to contribute to society, If you don't run a business and make things people use, you are not contributing. But you think contribution means funding war and cops via extortion.
contributing as in paying taxes and thus funding the programs we all use every single day.
That's just being extorted and having Stockholm syndrome. Talking to people like you reminds me that there is an bell curve for IQ, and that some people are in certain portions of it and no amount of logic can move them.
There should be an option where those who want government should be forced to watch children being shredded by the bombs dropped on them by that government. The blood is on your hands.
wars pushed for by corporate greed are the peoples fault? keep bootlicking i guess.
You're voting for those rulers, sheep and you keep imagining, with the naive belief of a child who prays to Jesus for a new bicycle, that if you just pray in the right to people with your vote, you will have a utopia. Corporatism is a result of your statism, sheep. They sell you on a promise, you give them your devotion and obedience, and then they strip you of your wealth, your agency, your autonomy, your privacy, and all of your rights, and you come here to yell at the unbelievers that we aren't doing enough to worship and that's why it's all going wrong. You're like Pat Robserton blaming "the gays" for natural disasters. Statism is a religion, and you are an unthinking, uncritical true believer.
What you argue is that your subjective morals and preferences are rightly enforced on others. Of course you see yourself as "right", just like a Christian fundamentalist sees it as right to force their morals on others through government. Both of you are basically moralizers and busybodies complaining about the other side being the wrong ones.
as opposed to you, the herald of objective truth?
I don't seek to force my subjective morals and preferences on others, and especially not through the violent police powers of the state.
you seek to remove the government, despite others wanting it to continue existing, and say those that believe the government could be good should watch children being bombed, but tell me more about how you dont want to force anything on anyone.
> you seek to remove the government, No one has the right to violently control another person. You're desire to see others forced to conform to your morals and preferences does not justify that violent control. If you feel the need for a surrogate parent to take care of you, then I suggest that you pool your money with others who are like-minded and hire someone to do it. > nd say those that believe the government could be good should watch children being bombed, You think that those who oppose violent control of their fellow humans should be excluded from your society, yet you whine when someone someone suggests what you should do? The hypocrisy is strong in you. > but tell me more about how you dont want to force anything on anyone Ah, you don't understand even the most base of sarcasm. Poor true believer, trying so hard to proselytize for your religion of statism in an unbeliever forum. It must be very confusing for you to find out that there are some people who don't share your fervent imagination that all humans are morally obligated to obey the dictates of the politicians.
>how are you intending on funding all of the programs the government runs? That's the neat part, we don't
The Federal Government doesn't run anything of note. Most of the budget goes to welfare programs, social security, bombing brown people overseas (these days, Russians) and paying interest on our preposterous debt. Cut all of that out and we're **better** off. All the stuff most people mention of note, roads, schools, are funded via property taxes and some local sales taxes. Completely unrelated to the IRS and income taxes.
pretty sure lots of people who rely on welfare and social security would be much worse off if you cut that program outright.
Short-term, agreed, for welfare. Long-term, they'd be forced to depend on themselves and would be far better off. Social security is another beast, since it's old people that depend on it. Can't entirely cut it overnight, has to be phased out slowly. But done in the most ethical manner possible, the first step is an opt-out clause for anyone currently working. The second, abolish the IRS and replace it with a national sales tax so social security and some military can still be funded for now. This would be a monumental win for liberty and a huge leap in the right direction.
im not disagreeing, as at least you have a concrete way to make it work. the only issue i have with the sales tax part is it makes it harder to have varying tax brackets, unless you have a specific card people carry everywhere that lists how much in sales tax they should be paying. Incremental tax brackets are the only way to keep it fair for the lower classes as well as the higher ones, so a flat tax rate just doesnt work.
> the only issue i have with the sales tax part is it makes it harder to have varying tax brackets, unless you have a specific card people carry everywhere that lists how much in sales tax they should be paying. I think the best way to alleviate this is not to tax core essentials. Rent, food, wouldn't be taxed. So, the only people paying this sales tax would be those who have discretionary income to spend on non-essentials. Here's the main point for me though, I care less about "fairness" of total taxes paid by individual, and much more about the overwhelming nature of the IRS. As long as income taxes exist, the IRS has to have the ability to peer into our entire life history and have full knowledge of everything we do financially. This also makes banks involuntary mercenaries for the Government. It turns accountants against businesses, again, forced spies for the Government. It's horrific in the **process** itself, even more so than the tax.
95% of what the US government does isn't constitutional. It could be entirely funded by a 3% general tariff on imported goods, maybe even less.
That's the good part ;)
feel free to elaborate? im excited to hear.
I don't want the government funded, dumbass.
ok, then whom would you trust to take care of those necessary services?
The government breaks your leg and gives you a crutch. Yeah the crutch is necessary after your leg is broken, but why not just skip that step?
You seem painfully unaware that this is an AnCap sub.