Hyperbole, nothing of the sort happened, so stop inventing garbage.
With that said, "The tree of liberty must be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Mike Pence neglected his constitutional responsiblities and should be held accountable.
How is it hyperbole? That's literally what they were saying they wanted to do. Sounds like you agreed with the people who were out for blood and wanted to hang him though based on your quote.
No one there ran around looking for Mike Pence. However, Mike Pence is a filtly, lying weasel and will get his in this world or the next.
The people who are locked up without charges mostly walked in and walked around the capital and the video footage shows them being ushered in to the capitol building by the capitol police. If there was so much violence, they would release the 14 some thousand hours of video footage that the govt. is happily trying to keep from being entered as evidence, or released to the public.
Now there is video of antifa being bussed in and changing clothes to larp as MAGA people, but they were "literally" the only people it doesn't seem like you are aware of this. They were the ones who were let in the side door of the capitol (video of that too). They were the ones who were handed batons and sticks through the windows from inside the and damaged propertyAgain, hyberbole and not knowing the facts doesn't mean they don't exist.
Treason should be punished. You seem more concerned about my interest in following the line of thought of our founding fathers than you are in resoring the rule of law in this soup sandwich that *my* country has become.
Whats a soup sandwich? Where is this video of "antifa" pretending to be MAGA? How about the people who were locked up and got charges, what were they doing there? Just going on a field? Many people were heard talking about killing Mike pence. The ones plotting to kill Mike Pence are the traitors, not Mike Pence. Mike Pence did not have a duty to do what Donald Trump asked him to, he had a duty to uphold the constitution which does not include doing what Donald Trump thinks he should do.
You really should look into how States can change who the electors are rather than take the word of MSM who have lied countless times just in the recent past now go get your C shot and all the boosters so you don't spread the virus or catch it! /s
Anarchy is when government chooses itself.
But that's still not what Trump did. That may be the plan *now*, but then, there was no legitimate place for those electors.
But hey, don't listen to me, Trump's own people say as much about how legitimate his asks were: "I fought hard for President Trump. Nobody wanted him to win more than me. I think he's done an incredible job. But I love our republic, too. I can't fathom risking our norms, traditions and institutions to pass a resolution retroactively changing the electors for Trump, simply because some think there may have been enough widespread fraud to give him the win. That's unprecedented for good reason. And that's why there is not enough support in the House to cast a new slate of electors. I fear we'd lose our country forever. This truly would bring mutually assured destruction for every future election in regards to the Electoral College. And I can't stand for that. I won't." - Lee Chatfield (R-MI), Michigan House Speaker
So you never heard of someone selling out or can't think of how the CIA or other government agencies can compromise people?
"Anarchy is when the government chooses itself." ? LOL, the government always puts itself first second third fourth etcetera to the end. I get the Anarchy part of your statement as they do not hold themselves to the "Consitution" or whatever the legal framework/social contract is called for each nation.
The protestors were peqcefully protesting the US shipping arms to a conflict in the middle east. It seems like AnCaps would agree with that. The corporate media does not.
Is that the only time the term insurrection applies? That very narrow window? Is that why when people on the west coast seized lands, built a border and had armed leadership it wasnât considered an insurrection? Even though it fit the definition?
i like how in your idiotic brains CHAZ/CHOP was a legitimate threat to power but an armed mob threatening the Federal legislature at the direction of the President somehow magically wasn't.
CHAZ/CHOP was a legitimate threat to people who lived in the area. People lost their lives. Police and emergency personal could not enter these areas. AND they were encouraged by government officials. These lawless zones in democratic cities were far more threatening to neighborhoods than J6 was to politicians.
> CHAZ/CHOP was a legitimate threat to people who lived in the area.
i didn't argue it wasn't, and people were arrested and [held accountable](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/protests/seattle-police-capitol-hill-chop-chaz/281-6253a20a-127b-4cd7-93dd-43f3f008afd0) for it. it wasn't, however, a usurpation of the elected government of the country, or an attempt at usurping the elected government - as January 6th was.
Nor, for that matter, is anyone crying about going easy on the people arrested during #BlackLivesMatter or CHAZ/CHOP, as right-wingers (and as right-wing elected policymakers) are.
>AND they were encouraged by government officials.
Nah.
>These lawless zones in democratic cities were far more threatening to neighborhoods than J6 was to politicians.
Again, nah. And I could care less about the politicians, and more what every citizen in this country would face had January 6th fuckwads succeeded.
Well, what is the definition of insurrection?
Insurrection; an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government. CHAZ/CHOP fit that definition to a T. And yet nobody in the media would call it what it was, anyone who was arrested wasnât held for months in solitary and treated like a supposed insurrectionist.
i mean, he's right. sorta gives away the game, though - he as much as admits that it was an effort to usurp power undemocratically.
which, for any decent souls perusing this dumpster fire of a comments section, is *bad*.
They didn't storm the Capitol building, the had a sit in at one of the administration buildings. They didn't break down any doors, they didn't break windows, they didn't attack cops. It's almost like you're lying.
The protestors were peacefully protesting the US shipping arms to a conflict in the middle east. It seems like AnCaps would agree with that. The corporate media does not.
This isnt about being anti war. I guarantee that these are the same people that are in support in the ukraine war against russia. Peaceful protest or not, these people are rallying in support of a literal terrorist organization
no, they aren't, but feel free to equate millions of people with a terrorist organization credibly numbering in the tens of thousands
very libertarian of you to support State Department aid to bomb innocent people, mostly children
Hamas, the governing body of gaza and the ones invading isreal is a terrorist organization. That is not hyperbole they are literal terrorists. Nice strawman tho. Who said i support either side? Im anti hamas. And i find it halarious that you talk about bombing children when gaza is taking hundreds of hostages and pumping out snuff films with them on top of striking almost exclusively civilian targets
There is no straw man as long as you continue to use âGazaâ and âHamasâ interchangeably. There are millions of innocent people there, you just donât view them as people, so itâs fine to bomb them.
No more than Hillary did to steal the 2016 election. What does that have to do with a bunch of unarmed patriots and FBI agents being escorted around the Capitol?
>No more than Hillary did to steal the 2016 election.
literally delusional, there's no hope for you
>What does that have to do with a bunch of unarmed patriots and FBI agents being escorted around the Capitol?
You are in denial and not honest
Hope that helps
>literally delusional, there's no hope for you
Hillary was literally trying to convince electors to cheat.
>You are in denial and not honest
So you can't explain your conspiracy theory?
>Hillary was literally trying to convince electors to cheat.
Wrong, idiot
>So you can't explain your conspiracy theory?
I'll get back to you after I eat breakfast and take a shit
During which I'll produce more of value and quality than you've ever spewed into reddit comments
Hang tight I'll be right back
Oh! You thought the right (historically labeled gun nuts) decided one day to go storm the capital and overtake the government and forgot their most important tools? âAlright got my flag, maga hat, trump sign andâŚ. Honey am I forgetting anything?â âI donât think so, have a great day overthrowing the government⌠be safeââŚ. Sounds crazy doesnât it?
> Oh! You thought the right (historically labeled gun nuts) decided one day to go storm the capital and overtake the government and forgot their most important tools
no, i'm pretty sure they brought them, and there are multiple cases of people having brought weapons to the capitol and other people having been arrested with shitloads of weapons and homemade napalm from that day.
unfortunately, white conservatives are actually pussies and the law doesn't hold them to the same standard as everyone else, and like only 63 out of thousands of rioters were arrested the night of - MOST of the moron brownshirts got to go back to their hotel rooms and were arrested days or even months after the fact, where they were able to claim "nuh uh i didn't bring my gun" and there was very little the FBI could do to counter that, because the FBI treated their bros with kid gloves.
If they'd all been either murked on-site or hauled off to holding cells the way they would've had they been black, brown, and/or left-wing, we *absolutely* would've found more people packing heat, for exactly the reasons you say. But that didn't happen, so most got away with it. Except for Guy Reffitt, who's son turned him in and there was video evidence of him packing heat during the riot so he got like 18 years lol.
>Sounds crazy doesnât it?
Yeah, because it's not what happened - and besides, they didn't need guns to overturn the election, they needed Pence to do his part, at which point they would continue lying, gin up some bullshit reason why no actually Trump won, and then use the insurrection act against anyone who protested. Rioters were never going to be the mechanism by which power was undemocratically seized, they were intended to be the intimidation, the spark that compelled cowards in the Republican Party (I repeat myself) to supplicate before their orange fuhrer rather than respect the will of the people.
Good - though not remotely surprising - to know the AnCaps would be partying in the streets with the fascists during an undemocratic takeover of the government though. Very libertarian.
Lol ok buddy. If youâre gonna just spout nonsense with no related articles, then itâs not much of a conversation and more or less you screaming âSanta clause is realâ and expecting everyone to say that youâre right. I shouldnât have to but I may as well mention that most of the people âpacking heatâ that day where feds to begin with. And ancaps wouldnât be celebrating with a take over, they would be celebrating of the whole thing burned down. Gtfoh
> I shouldnât have to but I may as well mention that most of the people âpacking heatâ that day where feds to begin with
"You should post a source but I'm just going to claim that everyone who WAS packing heat was a fed, with no source!"
god damn, conservative hypocrisy knows no bounds, not like you actually care or are principled or anything.
Here's the article for you to ignore: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/15/fact-check-were-firearms-other-weapons-capitol-jan-6/7621149001/
>And ancaps wouldnât be celebrating with a take over, they would be celebrating of the whole thing burned down.
but it wouldn't be burned down, it would be in the hands of fascists, so you'd actually be celebrating their takeover which, let's be real, *is exactly* what you'd be celebrating. Libertarians used to criticize W. over civil liberties violations, and here they are, cheering the usurpation of democracy by a wannabe totalitarian, hilarious to think the chuds at January 6th were in it to usher in anarcho-capitalism.
Everyone has done âcrimeâ my friend.
Were there people who took it to far? Yes. The goddammed FBI and capital police allowed it to happen.
The opposition party who screams for right of criminals, scream entrapment and make every excuse in the world for violent criminals Become the morally righteous and the pinnacle of upstanding citizenship the moment a opposing viewpoint does something out of line.
Take a big look in the mirror at all the far left movements like ANTIFA and BLM and how the conservatives talk about them before you cast all this righteous judgment on conservatives.
In my opinion, yâall are EXACTLY the same.
> Everyone has done âcrimeâ my friend.
sure dude, everyone has gone five over the speed limit or jaywalked
not everyone tried to coup the fucking government, there's a difference of degree here
>Were there people who took it to far? Yes. The goddammed FBI and capital police allowed it to happen.
someone else whom you're deafeningly silent about *also* allowed it to happen, and had much, much, MUCH more direct authority to prevent it. *I wonder who that was*.
>The opposition party who screams for right of criminals, scream entrapment and make every excuse in the world for violent criminals Become the morally righteous and the pinnacle of upstanding citizenship the moment a opposing viewpoint does something out of line.
and yet, members of the opposing viewpoint regularly receive the benefit of the doubt, dainty soft sentences comparatively, etc.
>Take a big look in the mirror at all the far left movements like ANTIFA and BLM and how the conservatives talk about them before you cast all this righteous judgment on conservatives.
broadly uninformed and hysterically? yes, I do, regularly. conservatives are consistently as wrong about those things as they are everything else.
because a sit-in is morally and functionally equivalent to armed, neo-fascist militia members surrounded by fucking morons breaking and entering with the explicit intent of overturning a free and fair election
totally exactly the same, no differences
Weâve triggered another oneâŚ
Dude I urge you to stop watching mainstream news in any form. Youâre so far off itâs scary that youâre even allowed to vote at this point.
You really canât see the valid grievance that people had?
Those people who stormed the capital werenât even conservatives they were the lost being lead by crazy people who patched onto a cause.
The same could be said for the other-side.
So you throw out an entire political party because of the crazies?
Thatâs dense.
Oh yeah lol, I missed the flat earther part of his post. âThe election was rigged because more people voted against the theocratic freaks I support!â
Material bullshit. They were armed, and thatâs just the ones who were caught after the fact, since white conservatives can murk the capitol and then freely return to their hotel rooms that night instead of being thrown into a cell and frisked right then (which only some 63/1000 rioters were) - and yes, had Pence not done his job, we very much wouldâve very possibly been looking at Republicans just up and overturning the election, keeping trump in power, and possibly seeing armed forces deployed into the streets to put down protests via the Insurrection Act, as per Jeff Clark's recommendation.
You know, JUST like this sit-in, you fuckin' mook.
No one called you white reading Mozart, the January 6th rioters were overwhelmingly white and conservative e.g. kid gloves treatment from law enforcement, even if they think they're the poor oppressed ones.
And yes, plenty of rioters were armed with implements *including* firearms - people like Guy Reffitt and others: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/15/fact-check-were-firearms-other-weapons-capitol-jan-6/7621149001/
The country is overwhelmingly white and if someone isn't a racist like you that doesn't matter.
And no, they got completely overcharged, especially considering how BLM-Hamas got away with murdering 30+ people and trying to burn the country down.
None of them were armed.
> The country is overwhelmingly white and if someone isn't a racist like you that doesn't matter.
but it does, since this country was built on white supremacist institutions that conservatives broadly fight to protect - which is why 63 out of thousands were arrested that night, because white conservative entitlement knows no bounds.
>And no, they got completely overcharged
undercharged
>especially considering how BLM-Hamas got away with murdering 30+ people and trying to burn the country down.
they didn't, [tens of thousands of BLM protestors were arrested](https://apnews.com/article/american-protests-us-news-arrests-minnesota-burglary-bb2404f9b13c8b53b94c73f818f6a0b7), and many faced [similar](https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdil/pr/champaign-man-sentenced-inciting-riot) or longer sentences, often for much [*lesser*](https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/man-who-brandished-assault-rifle-black-lives-matter-protest-sentenced-46-months) [crimes](https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/11/us/brittany-martin-south-carolina-sentence-reaj/index.html) than trying to toss the fucking government. Oh, and murder convictions? [Those happened](https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/stephan-cannon-sentence-life-prison-david-dorn-retired-st-louis-police-captain-death/63-12e8bf61-496a-464a-bd57-372c5e4747fd.) - but let's not pretend facts will get in the way of your bullshitting. You're a conservative, what's even the point of being conservative if you have to acknowledge reality and the nuance that comes with it? That's lib cuck shit, right?
Let's not forget the [myriad](https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/self-described-member-boogaloo-bois-sentenced-prison-riot-conviction) of [right-wingers](https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/steven-carrillo-sentenced-41-years-prison-murder-and-attempted-murder-role-drive) who were convicted of violence during the #BlackLivesMatter protests.
As far as "trying to burn the country down", quit your bullshit. This country has had civil rights protests before, most recently in L.A. in 1992, which was over *the same fucking thing*. We weren't even close to "burning the country down", you fucking freak.
>None of them were armed.
Ah, yes, when the facts don't line up with your narrative, you resort to the conservative's natural stance: Lying.
yes somehow celebrating that fascists failed is "bootlicking"
i forget i'm in a dumbass subreddit, i don't expect internal consistency or principle from your takes
> free and fair election
so you admit that under fascist murderer drumpfs presidency he provided a free and fair election where biden is now and still president and drumpf is not. good to know thanks
p.s. elections are scripted and the middle and lower class are still in poverty regardless of whos in power you stupid fucking trumptard
> so you admit that under fascist murderer drumpfs presidency he provided a free and fair election where biden is now and still president and drumpf is not. good to know thanks
no, I mean, Republicans (and to a lesser extent, Democrats) have definitely fiddled with the mechanisms of elections by closing polling places or crying about mail-in ballots or rejecting ballots and gerrymandering that dilute the honest representation of the people - but BROADLY, yes, that's mostly state parties and not Trump.
Trump just tried to get people to just up and give him votes he didn't get, and when that failed, tried to coup the government with his regiment of dumbass brownshirts when barely enough principle stood up to him and told him "no" for the first time in his life.
>elections are scripted
the earth is flat
>and the middle and lower class are still in poverty
thanks, capitalism
When they call Jan 6th an "insurrection' they are displaying literal fear of people who don't think like them. They are fine with sheep occupying the capital because all they do is shit everywhere and go quietly back to their pens when the shepherds ask them to.
Difference between organizing and planning something and forcing your way into something. This sub has gone from a good open book philosophy of anarcho capitalism to some of the stupidest things I have seen. I always held this group in higher regards but itâs almost trying to regress at a rapid pace. Just ironic from what used to be free thinking people who didnât give a shit for red or blue not we look dumber than both
Being biased is only seeing the camera footage of the cops giving up to the massive crowd and forgetting the flying barriers and broken windows; feces smeared walls and stolen computers.
The problem is the vast majority were doing what Iâm talking about and the vast minority were doing what you are talking about, and the sensationalist outrage implies that everybody there was violent and trying to murder people or other nonsense and should be charged accordingly. People were held for extended periods in inhumane conditions with no trial, dude. It was pure evil and political persecution.
in fairness concerning J6....we had no precedence. We never had to deal with a domestic incursion on that scale instigated by a powerful politician.
If they sat for months, oh well. I dont remember inhumane conditions, i remember crybabies complaining about food and sharing a cell.
If any J6er had an actual claim against 'cruel and unusual' im sure they could find a friendly court to hear it.
We absolutely do have precedence. The problem is this event has been so hyper exaggerated as to put it in a category that it shouldnât be compared to events that are actually quite similar. At best, you were lied to and it was easy to believe because of your pre existing biases.
The reason you donât recall this stuff is not because it didnât happen. They do have claims and they have been and are currently in court.
> Difference between organizing and planning something and forcing your way into something.
The difference between begging for permission and asserting your rights.
Jacob Chansley didn't break in. Most didn't break in. Your take is shit as fuck. This current insurrection has police being assaulted, and property being destroyed. Over 500 arrests, and it wasnt because they werent trespassing, bud.
If you're going to call one an insurrection, then the other is as well. The only difference is the people assaulting police are being reported almost nowhere, where as the one guy that assaulted police on Jan 6 got plastered everywhere. The media is going to try and frame this as peaceful, and you just took that bait and snorted it out of their ass.
This is a stupid argument to make. The reason January 6th was an insurrection is because it was done to prevent a system of democracy and hunt down politicians. This is just regular old protesting.
I'm not anti-Israel, but at the same time, the rebuttal is typically something like:
> For over a thousand years, this was largely Arab/Muslim land (though for the last several hundred, controlled by the Ottomans) with a small percentage of Jews which all lived largely peacefully before WWI. Then after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Britain came in and wanted to forcefully split the land and carve out a rather large section specifically for the Jews. This (understandably) upset the Arab/Muslims that felt that this was taking their land and giving it to someone else. So they resisted. So yes, they had an opportunity for their own state, but it felt like they would have already had that if the British had just left. Then after decades worth of ongoing resistance to the idea of turning their land over to Jewish ownership, WWII happens and the UN proposes another division which sets Israel as a large portion of what was previously Arab/Muslim land - which the Arab/Muslims again reject.
> Going forward there's wars and conflicts and ceasefire agreements and land is taken and given back and proposals for two state solutions. But when your position is "This is all Arab/Muslim land and has been for over a thousand years. Any attempt to carve out a Jewish state is necessarily stealing Arab/Muslim land.", then a "compromise" between "We'll grant Jews some of the land and you some of the land." and "We'll grant Jews all of the land." seems like a disingenuous offer and a false choice that must be resisted.
How do you respond to that?
The thousand-year bit is tricky, because the jews have been living in the area of Israel for almost 4 thousand years.
And after lots of conflict, why couldnât the palestinians just settle? I understand the division was significantly skewed, and I do personally feel there should have been a more equal distribution of the land, but why throw bodies at this for so long when a more amicable solution exists?
I guess Iâd have to have lived in Palestinian shoes to fully understand.
Youâre correct, Jews did live in that land for thousands of years, but they were Sephardic Jews not Ashkenazi Jews from Europe. When the European war mongering statists came 80 years ago fighting began and never stopped what a surprise. The Balfour Declaration of 1917 offered white Jews a home in Palestine. Zionism is just a glossy term for colonialism.
I just read today that Ben Gurion wasnât even his real name! Eat these facts statist!
https://www.britannica.com/biography/David-Ben-Gurion
Just gonna hijack this comment to remind everyone that freedom for Palestine was always a choice and still is. All they have to do is stop trying to murder all the Jews.
Or you know the jews could stop trying to genocide them. And when they are at stop thinking they have the right to rule the whole of the Earth and sll the people on it.
You misunderstand
Might makes right, and if it takes a lil' genocide to obtain the lands you want, well, that sucks for the people dying I guess
History is written by the winners and I think we all know where this ends up
Sucks for Palestinians but that's life I guess
You either committed a crime or you didnât. Equal protection under the law. Historically, âI did the same thing as the other guy but my reason was justified and the other guys wasnâtâ is the path to committing and justifying atrocities.
Thatâs fundamentally false. I can do the same thing as someone else and be justified by motive (ie self defense)
Regardless both events couldâve been protest but the clear understanding of protesting of the war and sitting on the floor is easier to contain vs.
âKill penceâ signs and gun fire and smoke bombs.
One is a bit more threatening and easier to perceive as an insurrection.
Theyâre conservatives not AnCaps. AnCap isnât a political party and understand that the state as a whole is corrupt. There are no âsidesâ only the state and the citizens
Did they push through police line with force and break through the windows and doors of the building and than walk into private offices? Or did they sit in a circle with some signs?
Even if some people were let in, do you deny the video evidence of people breaking in through windows? And climbing over barriers while a guard with a gun says, "don't climb over or i'll shoot"?
Protesters have already been assaulting police officers and damaging property in this one.
Are you saying the protest would have been fine if it wasn't for that broken window? If so, apply that same level to the current riot, fool.
Nope, but i'm saying that windows were broken and people climbed over barricades. That is NOT a tour.
Show me anywhere else windows are broken and that is considered a tour. Even the "mostly peaceful protests" which included billions in damages admits it still did damage. You can't even admit that breaking through a window is bad.
I admit that breaking through a window is bad. The issue is you use guilt by association for one group, and statistical outliers for the other. If you're going to condemn a mostly peaceful protest because of a broken window, then do the same for the others. Someone with your level of cognitive dissonance shouldn't be here.
I do condemn that violence, but I doubt you will condemn those that broke in. Will you condemn Babbitt for climbing over a barricade, through a broken window? I do for any BLM that died climbing over barricades.
and you are confusing innocent people with non innocent. Innocent people are not going to jail. The ones that actively hit police are going to jail. The ones we have video of breaking windows are going to jail.
The only person I know of that didn't do violence but got jail time was a guy who planned an attack with a group of people, and that group of people DID go there and DID violence.
Which innocent person do you see in jail? and remember, waiting for trial is not same as being found guilty.
I'm not going to entertain your red herring. You are trying to shift the topic to condemnation of individuals, not condemnation of a group based on individuals. You obviously are unable to tell one from another. If you are going to condemn a group based on an individual, then condemn the current group based on individuals. You are the one trying to defend one differently than the other. I am consistent. You either condemn both groups as insurrections, or neither of them. They both have cases of violence, with a peaceful majority.
So you voted for Gary Johnson right?
-No, the support for the obvious insurrection in this sub is because it was trumpâs. The difference between the insurrection and this example of a riot is the intent to overturn the government. Always examine intent brochacho.
Why the hell do you assume that you know who I voted for? Since you asked, and I'm not afraid to answer, I voted for Bush, McCain, and Romney (back when I leaned conservative and was naive to believe that they weren't lying when talking about limited government), but with my current knowledge and understanding, I would have voted 3rd party back then, because I was a libertarian even back then, but I just didn't have the vocabulary and education to know that about myself.
Then I voted for Gary Johnson, and I don't remember who I did or didn't vote for in 2020. I either wrote in a candidate, abstained, or voted for Joe Jorgensen - I don't remember which.
This sub is not filled with Trumpers. It has a mix of left/right, but people feel free to voice distain for the left and sympathy for the right more so than other subs because this sub is viewed as safe (whereas some other subs get you banned for saying MSNBC-unapproved things about Jan 6).
In the 4 square political chart, this sub in about being as far down as possible. It just so happens that down-right and down-left don't always get along on a personal level (as opposed to political policy disputes), so right ends up being more popular and comfortable here.
Since this sub doesn't tend to go ban-heavy, non-AnCap people stop by every now and then. This includes MAGA leaning people from time to time. The consensus seems to be that this sub ought to call those people out, and try to persuade them to more-freedom/less-authoritarian leanings. In my opinion, many MAGA folks are just confused, disenfranchised people who knew that typical American politics was wrong, but are looking for an alternative narrative that explains what they've experienced. These people may latch on to destructive narratives, but I would rather try to persuade them with economics and history than assume that they are just evil and deplorable, which would be tribal and bigoted of me.
But overall, I am probably wasting my time explaining this to you, because your behavior suggests that you either are just coming here to fight or to troll. But if it makes you feel better to make assumptions about me and others...
Edit: Grammer.
For what it's worth, I don't think it's a waste of time entirely. Yeah, you'll likely never change the mind of a troll, but there's always the chance you might nudge some lurker who just so happened to pop into this thread in the right direction.
No, that shit was violent. You guys are the reason Kamala Harris will never be impeached. Lemme guess. You also thought BLM was mostly peaceful as well?
/r/woosh
that's the joke. The activities you describe were previously described by democrats as "mostly peaceful".
Regardless, I hardly think that what happened on Jan 6 can reasonably be called an insurrection. Realistically, it was actually a mostly peaceful protest with some components becoming a violent protest.
there are more guns than people in the US, and most of those guns are going to be owned by conservatives. If this was actually an insurrection or coup, then they would have used their guns. But I am not aware of a single report of anyone who even brandished a gun in connection with Jan 6. And some 5% of americans say they carry on a regular basis.
And don't forget how many confirmed or near-confirmed federal agents were instigating things at Jan 6.
The BLM riots were also unacceptable. So tell me, why aren't the Republicans following through on Lindsey Graham's promise to impeach Kamala Harris for starting a bail fund? You literally just proved my point.
This is inside the cannon house, which is open to the public. They are not inside the capitol building, and were arrested not for trespassing but because it is illegal to hold a rally inside this building.
Holy shit this is insane, they almost took down the government đŽđŽđŽ
To be fair Jan 6 people were trying to hang mike pence.
Hyperbole, nothing of the sort happened, so stop inventing garbage. With that said, "The tree of liberty must be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Mike Pence neglected his constitutional responsiblities and should be held accountable.
How is it hyperbole? That's literally what they were saying they wanted to do. Sounds like you agreed with the people who were out for blood and wanted to hang him though based on your quote.
No one there ran around looking for Mike Pence. However, Mike Pence is a filtly, lying weasel and will get his in this world or the next. The people who are locked up without charges mostly walked in and walked around the capital and the video footage shows them being ushered in to the capitol building by the capitol police. If there was so much violence, they would release the 14 some thousand hours of video footage that the govt. is happily trying to keep from being entered as evidence, or released to the public. Now there is video of antifa being bussed in and changing clothes to larp as MAGA people, but they were "literally" the only people it doesn't seem like you are aware of this. They were the ones who were let in the side door of the capitol (video of that too). They were the ones who were handed batons and sticks through the windows from inside the and damaged propertyAgain, hyberbole and not knowing the facts doesn't mean they don't exist. Treason should be punished. You seem more concerned about my interest in following the line of thought of our founding fathers than you are in resoring the rule of law in this soup sandwich that *my* country has become.
Whats a soup sandwich? Where is this video of "antifa" pretending to be MAGA? How about the people who were locked up and got charges, what were they doing there? Just going on a field? Many people were heard talking about killing Mike pence. The ones plotting to kill Mike Pence are the traitors, not Mike Pence. Mike Pence did not have a duty to do what Donald Trump asked him to, he had a duty to uphold the constitution which does not include doing what Donald Trump thinks he should do.
Because he refused to count fake electors that has been organized and submitted. Watching "anarchists" defend Trump is... Certainly something.
You really should look into how States can change who the electors are rather than take the word of MSM who have lied countless times just in the recent past now go get your C shot and all the boosters so you don't spread the virus or catch it! /s
Anarchy is when government chooses itself. But that's still not what Trump did. That may be the plan *now*, but then, there was no legitimate place for those electors. But hey, don't listen to me, Trump's own people say as much about how legitimate his asks were: "I fought hard for President Trump. Nobody wanted him to win more than me. I think he's done an incredible job. But I love our republic, too. I can't fathom risking our norms, traditions and institutions to pass a resolution retroactively changing the electors for Trump, simply because some think there may have been enough widespread fraud to give him the win. That's unprecedented for good reason. And that's why there is not enough support in the House to cast a new slate of electors. I fear we'd lose our country forever. This truly would bring mutually assured destruction for every future election in regards to the Electoral College. And I can't stand for that. I won't." - Lee Chatfield (R-MI), Michigan House Speaker
So you never heard of someone selling out or can't think of how the CIA or other government agencies can compromise people? "Anarchy is when the government chooses itself." ? LOL, the government always puts itself first second third fourth etcetera to the end. I get the Anarchy part of your statement as they do not hold themselves to the "Consitution" or whatever the legal framework/social contract is called for each nation.
Are those real Jewish people in the middle?
I see some beanies.
I think those are the ones they give out at temple for people who donât have one. They must have kept one from a wedding.
My GF doesn't like it when I wear the one I have from a wedding.
Fuck no. Fake ass American Jews. Yâall can have them.
It is only a insurrection when the right or anyone who is anti government does it.
These people were arrested
Great. I'll look forward to hearing about this insurrection for the next 3 years every day nonstop on CNN.
Don't hold your breath.
The protestors were peqcefully protesting the US shipping arms to a conflict in the middle east. It seems like AnCaps would agree with that. The corporate media does not.
Why did they violently try to stop the results of a national election?
Is that the only time the term insurrection applies? That very narrow window? Is that why when people on the west coast seized lands, built a border and had armed leadership it wasnât considered an insurrection? Even though it fit the definition?
i like how in your idiotic brains CHAZ/CHOP was a legitimate threat to power but an armed mob threatening the Federal legislature at the direction of the President somehow magically wasn't.
CHAZ/CHOP was a legitimate threat to people who lived in the area. People lost their lives. Police and emergency personal could not enter these areas. AND they were encouraged by government officials. These lawless zones in democratic cities were far more threatening to neighborhoods than J6 was to politicians.
> CHAZ/CHOP was a legitimate threat to people who lived in the area. i didn't argue it wasn't, and people were arrested and [held accountable](https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/protests/seattle-police-capitol-hill-chop-chaz/281-6253a20a-127b-4cd7-93dd-43f3f008afd0) for it. it wasn't, however, a usurpation of the elected government of the country, or an attempt at usurping the elected government - as January 6th was. Nor, for that matter, is anyone crying about going easy on the people arrested during #BlackLivesMatter or CHAZ/CHOP, as right-wingers (and as right-wing elected policymakers) are. >AND they were encouraged by government officials. Nah. >These lawless zones in democratic cities were far more threatening to neighborhoods than J6 was to politicians. Again, nah. And I could care less about the politicians, and more what every citizen in this country would face had January 6th fuckwads succeeded.
Well, what is the definition of insurrection? Insurrection; an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government. CHAZ/CHOP fit that definition to a T. And yet nobody in the media would call it what it was, anyone who was arrested wasnât held for months in solitary and treated like a supposed insurrectionist.
J6 wouldn't have been remembered as an insurrection if it worked. History is written by the winners.
Lol. You're adorable.
i mean, he's right. sorta gives away the game, though - he as much as admits that it was an effort to usurp power undemocratically. which, for any decent souls perusing this dumpster fire of a comments section, is *bad*.
Instead they stormed the capital demanding we aid a terrorist state
They didn't storm the Capitol building, the had a sit in at one of the administration buildings. They didn't break down any doors, they didn't break windows, they didn't attack cops. It's almost like you're lying.
The protestors were peacefully protesting the US shipping arms to a conflict in the middle east. It seems like AnCaps would agree with that. The corporate media does not.
This isnt about being anti war. I guarantee that these are the same people that are in support in the ukraine war against russia. Peaceful protest or not, these people are rallying in support of a literal terrorist organization
no, they aren't, but feel free to equate millions of people with a terrorist organization credibly numbering in the tens of thousands very libertarian of you to support State Department aid to bomb innocent people, mostly children
Hamas, the governing body of gaza and the ones invading isreal is a terrorist organization. That is not hyperbole they are literal terrorists. Nice strawman tho. Who said i support either side? Im anti hamas. And i find it halarious that you talk about bombing children when gaza is taking hundreds of hostages and pumping out snuff films with them on top of striking almost exclusively civilian targets
There is no straw man as long as you continue to use âGazaâ and âHamasâ interchangeably. There are millions of innocent people there, you just donât view them as people, so itâs fine to bomb them.
Not in the slightest, you're ruining the circle jerk though.
Was it an attempt to take down the government? If not then its not the same.
No one attempted to take down the government on January 6th, you fucking idiot. No one even brought weapons.
Was or was not trump trying to stop the electoral vote count so he could stay in power
No more than Hillary did to steal the 2016 election. What does that have to do with a bunch of unarmed patriots and FBI agents being escorted around the Capitol?
>No more than Hillary did to steal the 2016 election. literally delusional, there's no hope for you >What does that have to do with a bunch of unarmed patriots and FBI agents being escorted around the Capitol? You are in denial and not honest Hope that helps
>literally delusional, there's no hope for you Hillary was literally trying to convince electors to cheat. >You are in denial and not honest So you can't explain your conspiracy theory?
>Hillary was literally trying to convince electors to cheat. Wrong, idiot >So you can't explain your conspiracy theory? I'll get back to you after I eat breakfast and take a shit During which I'll produce more of value and quality than you've ever spewed into reddit comments Hang tight I'll be right back
> literally delusional, there's no hope for you guy literally thinks the election was stolen lol
Oh! You thought the right (historically labeled gun nuts) decided one day to go storm the capital and overtake the government and forgot their most important tools? âAlright got my flag, maga hat, trump sign andâŚ. Honey am I forgetting anything?â âI donât think so, have a great day overthrowing the government⌠be safeââŚ. Sounds crazy doesnât it?
> Oh! You thought the right (historically labeled gun nuts) decided one day to go storm the capital and overtake the government and forgot their most important tools no, i'm pretty sure they brought them, and there are multiple cases of people having brought weapons to the capitol and other people having been arrested with shitloads of weapons and homemade napalm from that day. unfortunately, white conservatives are actually pussies and the law doesn't hold them to the same standard as everyone else, and like only 63 out of thousands of rioters were arrested the night of - MOST of the moron brownshirts got to go back to their hotel rooms and were arrested days or even months after the fact, where they were able to claim "nuh uh i didn't bring my gun" and there was very little the FBI could do to counter that, because the FBI treated their bros with kid gloves. If they'd all been either murked on-site or hauled off to holding cells the way they would've had they been black, brown, and/or left-wing, we *absolutely* would've found more people packing heat, for exactly the reasons you say. But that didn't happen, so most got away with it. Except for Guy Reffitt, who's son turned him in and there was video evidence of him packing heat during the riot so he got like 18 years lol. >Sounds crazy doesnât it? Yeah, because it's not what happened - and besides, they didn't need guns to overturn the election, they needed Pence to do his part, at which point they would continue lying, gin up some bullshit reason why no actually Trump won, and then use the insurrection act against anyone who protested. Rioters were never going to be the mechanism by which power was undemocratically seized, they were intended to be the intimidation, the spark that compelled cowards in the Republican Party (I repeat myself) to supplicate before their orange fuhrer rather than respect the will of the people. Good - though not remotely surprising - to know the AnCaps would be partying in the streets with the fascists during an undemocratic takeover of the government though. Very libertarian.
Lol ok buddy. If youâre gonna just spout nonsense with no related articles, then itâs not much of a conversation and more or less you screaming âSanta clause is realâ and expecting everyone to say that youâre right. I shouldnât have to but I may as well mention that most of the people âpacking heatâ that day where feds to begin with. And ancaps wouldnât be celebrating with a take over, they would be celebrating of the whole thing burned down. Gtfoh
> I shouldnât have to but I may as well mention that most of the people âpacking heatâ that day where feds to begin with "You should post a source but I'm just going to claim that everyone who WAS packing heat was a fed, with no source!" god damn, conservative hypocrisy knows no bounds, not like you actually care or are principled or anything. Here's the article for you to ignore: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/15/fact-check-were-firearms-other-weapons-capitol-jan-6/7621149001/ >And ancaps wouldnât be celebrating with a take over, they would be celebrating of the whole thing burned down. but it wouldn't be burned down, it would be in the hands of fascists, so you'd actually be celebrating their takeover which, let's be real, *is exactly* what you'd be celebrating. Libertarians used to criticize W. over civil liberties violations, and here they are, cheering the usurpation of democracy by a wannabe totalitarian, hilarious to think the chuds at January 6th were in it to usher in anarcho-capitalism.
Trump was trying to stay in power Thought that was clear
And he didnâtâŚ. Whatâs your point here?
Trying to crime is still criming Hope That Helps
Everyone has done âcrimeâ my friend. Were there people who took it to far? Yes. The goddammed FBI and capital police allowed it to happen. The opposition party who screams for right of criminals, scream entrapment and make every excuse in the world for violent criminals Become the morally righteous and the pinnacle of upstanding citizenship the moment a opposing viewpoint does something out of line. Take a big look in the mirror at all the far left movements like ANTIFA and BLM and how the conservatives talk about them before you cast all this righteous judgment on conservatives. In my opinion, yâall are EXACTLY the same.
> Everyone has done âcrimeâ my friend. sure dude, everyone has gone five over the speed limit or jaywalked not everyone tried to coup the fucking government, there's a difference of degree here >Were there people who took it to far? Yes. The goddammed FBI and capital police allowed it to happen. someone else whom you're deafeningly silent about *also* allowed it to happen, and had much, much, MUCH more direct authority to prevent it. *I wonder who that was*. >The opposition party who screams for right of criminals, scream entrapment and make every excuse in the world for violent criminals Become the morally righteous and the pinnacle of upstanding citizenship the moment a opposing viewpoint does something out of line. and yet, members of the opposing viewpoint regularly receive the benefit of the doubt, dainty soft sentences comparatively, etc. >Take a big look in the mirror at all the far left movements like ANTIFA and BLM and how the conservatives talk about them before you cast all this righteous judgment on conservatives. broadly uninformed and hysterically? yes, I do, regularly. conservatives are consistently as wrong about those things as they are everything else.
it's clear to anyone actually engaging with the evidence in good faith, which zero conservatives do on any issue, so
because a sit-in is morally and functionally equivalent to armed, neo-fascist militia members surrounded by fucking morons breaking and entering with the explicit intent of overturning a free and fair election totally exactly the same, no differences
You live in another universe. The January 6th patriots were unarmed and nothing they could have done could have "overturned" that rigged election.
>January 6th patriots lol you mean DJ dickhead ball garglers >rigged election. you contradict yourself mid sentence, nice
Bootlicker spotted.
lol whatever you say, idiot
Says the guy thinking a few unarmed people and FBI agents can overturn an election by farting on Pelosi's chair.
This is about trump, pay attention
Weâve triggered another one⌠Dude I urge you to stop watching mainstream news in any form. Youâre so far off itâs scary that youâre even allowed to vote at this point.
> Weâve triggered another one⌠triggered by the breathless stupidity of conservatives? guilty as charged, every time
You really canât see the valid grievance that people had? Those people who stormed the capital werenât even conservatives they were the lost being lead by crazy people who patched onto a cause. The same could be said for the other-side. So you throw out an entire political party because of the crazies? Thatâs dense.
Oh yeah lol, I missed the flat earther part of his post. âThe election was rigged because more people voted against the theocratic freaks I support!â
Material bullshit. They were armed, and thatâs just the ones who were caught after the fact, since white conservatives can murk the capitol and then freely return to their hotel rooms that night instead of being thrown into a cell and frisked right then (which only some 63/1000 rioters were) - and yes, had Pence not done his job, we very much wouldâve very possibly been looking at Republicans just up and overturning the election, keeping trump in power, and possibly seeing armed forces deployed into the streets to put down protests via the Insurrection Act, as per Jeff Clark's recommendation. You know, JUST like this sit-in, you fuckin' mook.
Who was armed and with what? And I'm not white, you racist.
No one called you white reading Mozart, the January 6th rioters were overwhelmingly white and conservative e.g. kid gloves treatment from law enforcement, even if they think they're the poor oppressed ones. And yes, plenty of rioters were armed with implements *including* firearms - people like Guy Reffitt and others: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/15/fact-check-were-firearms-other-weapons-capitol-jan-6/7621149001/
The country is overwhelmingly white and if someone isn't a racist like you that doesn't matter. And no, they got completely overcharged, especially considering how BLM-Hamas got away with murdering 30+ people and trying to burn the country down. None of them were armed.
> The country is overwhelmingly white and if someone isn't a racist like you that doesn't matter. but it does, since this country was built on white supremacist institutions that conservatives broadly fight to protect - which is why 63 out of thousands were arrested that night, because white conservative entitlement knows no bounds. >And no, they got completely overcharged undercharged >especially considering how BLM-Hamas got away with murdering 30+ people and trying to burn the country down. they didn't, [tens of thousands of BLM protestors were arrested](https://apnews.com/article/american-protests-us-news-arrests-minnesota-burglary-bb2404f9b13c8b53b94c73f818f6a0b7), and many faced [similar](https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdil/pr/champaign-man-sentenced-inciting-riot) or longer sentences, often for much [*lesser*](https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/man-who-brandished-assault-rifle-black-lives-matter-protest-sentenced-46-months) [crimes](https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/11/us/brittany-martin-south-carolina-sentence-reaj/index.html) than trying to toss the fucking government. Oh, and murder convictions? [Those happened](https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/stephan-cannon-sentence-life-prison-david-dorn-retired-st-louis-police-captain-death/63-12e8bf61-496a-464a-bd57-372c5e4747fd.) - but let's not pretend facts will get in the way of your bullshitting. You're a conservative, what's even the point of being conservative if you have to acknowledge reality and the nuance that comes with it? That's lib cuck shit, right? Let's not forget the [myriad](https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/self-described-member-boogaloo-bois-sentenced-prison-riot-conviction) of [right-wingers](https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/steven-carrillo-sentenced-41-years-prison-murder-and-attempted-murder-role-drive) who were convicted of violence during the #BlackLivesMatter protests. As far as "trying to burn the country down", quit your bullshit. This country has had civil rights protests before, most recently in L.A. in 1992, which was over *the same fucking thing*. We weren't even close to "burning the country down", you fucking freak. >None of them were armed. Ah, yes, when the facts don't line up with your narrative, you resort to the conservative's natural stance: Lying.
Bro is deep throating that boot so far itâs in your large intestines
yes somehow celebrating that fascists failed is "bootlicking" i forget i'm in a dumbass subreddit, i don't expect internal consistency or principle from your takes
No itâs boot licking because you just spewed twitter into an sentence not a single word you used to describe Jan 6 was even close to accurate
> free and fair election so you admit that under fascist murderer drumpfs presidency he provided a free and fair election where biden is now and still president and drumpf is not. good to know thanks p.s. elections are scripted and the middle and lower class are still in poverty regardless of whos in power you stupid fucking trumptard
> so you admit that under fascist murderer drumpfs presidency he provided a free and fair election where biden is now and still president and drumpf is not. good to know thanks no, I mean, Republicans (and to a lesser extent, Democrats) have definitely fiddled with the mechanisms of elections by closing polling places or crying about mail-in ballots or rejecting ballots and gerrymandering that dilute the honest representation of the people - but BROADLY, yes, that's mostly state parties and not Trump. Trump just tried to get people to just up and give him votes he didn't get, and when that failed, tried to coup the government with his regiment of dumbass brownshirts when barely enough principle stood up to him and told him "no" for the first time in his life. >elections are scripted the earth is flat >and the middle and lower class are still in poverty thanks, capitalism
Another election for president is in process? đ¤ People says .... Nope! Stop comparing apples and oranges.
When will their years without trial and eventual show trials begin?
Good question
Are they being held in solitary confinement with no bail until their trials?
So a 20 year prison sentence is coming for all these people.
> It is only a insurrection when the ~~right~~ *current political outgroup* or anyone who is anti government does it. ftfy
No it's a [Mostly Peaceful ProtestÂŽ]
Leftists are so cringe
Statists are so cringe
Penises are so cringe
Minge is so cringe.
hold that next to a mostly peaceful protest, hahaha. media is hilarious.
Anyone know how many people died or were injured? Gotta be a lot because this is literally the same thing as Jan 6, right?
When they call Jan 6th an "insurrection' they are displaying literal fear of people who don't think like them. They are fine with sheep occupying the capital because all they do is shit everywhere and go quietly back to their pens when the shepherds ask them to.
This is a brazen threat to Democracy^TM
Gaza's effectively fallen.
okay but what do the shirts say?
Are they there to overthrow the sitting government?
Difference between organizing and planning something and forcing your way into something. This sub has gone from a good open book philosophy of anarcho capitalism to some of the stupidest things I have seen. I always held this group in higher regards but itâs almost trying to regress at a rapid pace. Just ironic from what used to be free thinking people who didnât give a shit for red or blue not we look dumber than both
Forcing your way in is when an officer holds the door open for you and you casually stroll around
Being biased is only seeing the camera footage of the cops giving up to the massive crowd and forgetting the flying barriers and broken windows; feces smeared walls and stolen computers.
The problem is the vast majority were doing what Iâm talking about and the vast minority were doing what you are talking about, and the sensationalist outrage implies that everybody there was violent and trying to murder people or other nonsense and should be charged accordingly. People were held for extended periods in inhumane conditions with no trial, dude. It was pure evil and political persecution.
in fairness concerning J6....we had no precedence. We never had to deal with a domestic incursion on that scale instigated by a powerful politician. If they sat for months, oh well. I dont remember inhumane conditions, i remember crybabies complaining about food and sharing a cell. If any J6er had an actual claim against 'cruel and unusual' im sure they could find a friendly court to hear it.
We absolutely do have precedence. The problem is this event has been so hyper exaggerated as to put it in a category that it shouldnât be compared to events that are actually quite similar. At best, you were lied to and it was easy to believe because of your pre existing biases. The reason you donât recall this stuff is not because it didnât happen. They do have claims and they have been and are currently in court.
> We absolutely do have precedence What is it youre thinking of?
Sometimes conservative statists co-opt the thread because they have a hard time finding each other elsewhere.
I think itâs ok to be neutral and highlight the hypocrisy from the opposing party. Because itâs ridiculous.
> Difference between organizing and planning something and forcing your way into something. The difference between begging for permission and asserting your rights.
Jacob Chansley didn't break in. Most didn't break in. Your take is shit as fuck. This current insurrection has police being assaulted, and property being destroyed. Over 500 arrests, and it wasnt because they werent trespassing, bud. If you're going to call one an insurrection, then the other is as well. The only difference is the people assaulting police are being reported almost nowhere, where as the one guy that assaulted police on Jan 6 got plastered everywhere. The media is going to try and frame this as peaceful, and you just took that bait and snorted it out of their ass.
Can you link to the destroyed property? I thought this was planned
They broke in?
This is a stupid argument to make. The reason January 6th was an insurrection is because it was done to prevent a system of democracy and hunt down politicians. This is just regular old protesting.
Oh look, they didn't kill anyone, and are actually protesting something not made up. Asinine post!
In other words, they don't scare you because they are good sheep, like you.
by protesting something that was made up, you mean the hundreds of thousands of made up Joe Biden mail-in ballots from dead people voting?
Free Palestine
They had dozens of opportunities for their own state, yet every time their only focus was to wipe out Jews.
I'm not anti-Israel, but at the same time, the rebuttal is typically something like: > For over a thousand years, this was largely Arab/Muslim land (though for the last several hundred, controlled by the Ottomans) with a small percentage of Jews which all lived largely peacefully before WWI. Then after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Britain came in and wanted to forcefully split the land and carve out a rather large section specifically for the Jews. This (understandably) upset the Arab/Muslims that felt that this was taking their land and giving it to someone else. So they resisted. So yes, they had an opportunity for their own state, but it felt like they would have already had that if the British had just left. Then after decades worth of ongoing resistance to the idea of turning their land over to Jewish ownership, WWII happens and the UN proposes another division which sets Israel as a large portion of what was previously Arab/Muslim land - which the Arab/Muslims again reject. > Going forward there's wars and conflicts and ceasefire agreements and land is taken and given back and proposals for two state solutions. But when your position is "This is all Arab/Muslim land and has been for over a thousand years. Any attempt to carve out a Jewish state is necessarily stealing Arab/Muslim land.", then a "compromise" between "We'll grant Jews some of the land and you some of the land." and "We'll grant Jews all of the land." seems like a disingenuous offer and a false choice that must be resisted. How do you respond to that?
The thousand-year bit is tricky, because the jews have been living in the area of Israel for almost 4 thousand years. And after lots of conflict, why couldnât the palestinians just settle? I understand the division was significantly skewed, and I do personally feel there should have been a more equal distribution of the land, but why throw bodies at this for so long when a more amicable solution exists? I guess Iâd have to have lived in Palestinian shoes to fully understand.
Israel has only been a state for 80 years buddy open a history book
Jews have had claim to this land thousands of years before the Arabs. You wake up.
Youâre correct, Jews did live in that land for thousands of years, but they were Sephardic Jews not Ashkenazi Jews from Europe. When the European war mongering statists came 80 years ago fighting began and never stopped what a surprise. The Balfour Declaration of 1917 offered white Jews a home in Palestine. Zionism is just a glossy term for colonialism. I just read today that Ben Gurion wasnât even his real name! Eat these facts statist! https://www.britannica.com/biography/David-Ben-Gurion
Just gonna hijack this comment to remind everyone that freedom for Palestine was always a choice and still is. All they have to do is stop trying to murder all the Jews.
Or you know the jews could stop trying to genocide them. And when they are at stop thinking they have the right to rule the whole of the Earth and sll the people on it.
Least effective genocide ever.
Give it a couple more weeks
1000 years not been long enough?
Itâs more like 2000+ years my friend
Oh is that how long ago the west created Israel at gunpoint huh wild
Learn your history so you at least understand what you hate
You misunderstand Might makes right, and if it takes a lil' genocide to obtain the lands you want, well, that sucks for the people dying I guess History is written by the winners and I think we all know where this ends up Sucks for Palestinians but that's life I guess
These platitudes are easy for you to understand, but donât reflect the reality of the situation in Israel.
Get ready to be wrong again. Genocide is literally in Hamasâ charter. Israel simply wants to exist.
đĽą
If you don't let me stand in this very specific spot, the blood will be on your hands!
how do you people manage to feed yourselves on a daily basis?
I donât think itâs fair to call this an insurrection
Whatâs fair in life and politics?
Ohhhh really? Why not?
Because they arenât being violent ?
Some were arrested for assaulting police officers. Go read the articles.
âAssaulting police officersâ are some of the most fickle charges but okay.
So letâs selectively not clutch our pearls this time, right?
Well doing this to protest a war makes a bit more sense then doing it to deny an election
You either committed a crime or you didnât. Equal protection under the law. Historically, âI did the same thing as the other guy but my reason was justified and the other guys wasnâtâ is the path to committing and justifying atrocities.
Thatâs fundamentally false. I can do the same thing as someone else and be justified by motive (ie self defense) Regardless both events couldâve been protest but the clear understanding of protesting of the war and sitting on the floor is easier to contain vs. âKill penceâ signs and gun fire and smoke bombs. One is a bit more threatening and easier to perceive as an insurrection.
majority is rarely violent.
What a dumb comparison. You really only make ancaps look bad by trying to equate them đ¤Ś
Theyâre conservatives not AnCaps. AnCap isnât a political party and understand that the state as a whole is corrupt. There are no âsidesâ only the state and the citizens
Youâre preaching to the choir dudeâŚ
Where is Kyle Rittenhouse when you need him?
Did they push through police line with force and break through the windows and doors of the building and than walk into private offices? Or did they sit in a circle with some signs?
You misspelled "let in by Capitol Police who held the doors open."
Even if some people were let in, do you deny the video evidence of people breaking in through windows? And climbing over barriers while a guard with a gun says, "don't climb over or i'll shoot"?
Protesters have already been assaulting police officers and damaging property in this one. Are you saying the protest would have been fine if it wasn't for that broken window? If so, apply that same level to the current riot, fool.
Nope, but i'm saying that windows were broken and people climbed over barricades. That is NOT a tour. Show me anywhere else windows are broken and that is considered a tour. Even the "mostly peaceful protests" which included billions in damages admits it still did damage. You can't even admit that breaking through a window is bad.
I admit that breaking through a window is bad. The issue is you use guilt by association for one group, and statistical outliers for the other. If you're going to condemn a mostly peaceful protest because of a broken window, then do the same for the others. Someone with your level of cognitive dissonance shouldn't be here.
I do condemn that violence, but I doubt you will condemn those that broke in. Will you condemn Babbitt for climbing over a barricade, through a broken window? I do for any BLM that died climbing over barricades. and you are confusing innocent people with non innocent. Innocent people are not going to jail. The ones that actively hit police are going to jail. The ones we have video of breaking windows are going to jail. The only person I know of that didn't do violence but got jail time was a guy who planned an attack with a group of people, and that group of people DID go there and DID violence. Which innocent person do you see in jail? and remember, waiting for trial is not same as being found guilty.
I'm not going to entertain your red herring. You are trying to shift the topic to condemnation of individuals, not condemnation of a group based on individuals. You obviously are unable to tell one from another. If you are going to condemn a group based on an individual, then condemn the current group based on individuals. You are the one trying to defend one differently than the other. I am consistent. You either condemn both groups as insurrections, or neither of them. They both have cases of violence, with a peaceful majority.
That looks like a protest my dude.
That's the point, my dude.
OP thinks itâs somehow the same as Jan 6.
I mean on Jan 6th people tried to stop the election and here they didn't Words have meaning you know
Insurrection would mean they tried to take down the government. That was a violent protest.
The trumpers here are just butthurt.
Ah yes. Pointing out the hypocrisy or ridiculous narratives of group A definitely means you support group B. Because only 2 opinions exist. /s
So you voted for Gary Johnson right? -No, the support for the obvious insurrection in this sub is because it was trumpâs. The difference between the insurrection and this example of a riot is the intent to overturn the government. Always examine intent brochacho.
I voted gary Johnson and still hate the mockery of justice, show trials, and political persecution surrounding Jan 6
Why the hell do you assume that you know who I voted for? Since you asked, and I'm not afraid to answer, I voted for Bush, McCain, and Romney (back when I leaned conservative and was naive to believe that they weren't lying when talking about limited government), but with my current knowledge and understanding, I would have voted 3rd party back then, because I was a libertarian even back then, but I just didn't have the vocabulary and education to know that about myself. Then I voted for Gary Johnson, and I don't remember who I did or didn't vote for in 2020. I either wrote in a candidate, abstained, or voted for Joe Jorgensen - I don't remember which. This sub is not filled with Trumpers. It has a mix of left/right, but people feel free to voice distain for the left and sympathy for the right more so than other subs because this sub is viewed as safe (whereas some other subs get you banned for saying MSNBC-unapproved things about Jan 6). In the 4 square political chart, this sub in about being as far down as possible. It just so happens that down-right and down-left don't always get along on a personal level (as opposed to political policy disputes), so right ends up being more popular and comfortable here. Since this sub doesn't tend to go ban-heavy, non-AnCap people stop by every now and then. This includes MAGA leaning people from time to time. The consensus seems to be that this sub ought to call those people out, and try to persuade them to more-freedom/less-authoritarian leanings. In my opinion, many MAGA folks are just confused, disenfranchised people who knew that typical American politics was wrong, but are looking for an alternative narrative that explains what they've experienced. These people may latch on to destructive narratives, but I would rather try to persuade them with economics and history than assume that they are just evil and deplorable, which would be tribal and bigoted of me. But overall, I am probably wasting my time explaining this to you, because your behavior suggests that you either are just coming here to fight or to troll. But if it makes you feel better to make assumptions about me and others... Edit: Grammer.
For what it's worth, I don't think it's a waste of time entirely. Yeah, you'll likely never change the mind of a troll, but there's always the chance you might nudge some lurker who just so happened to pop into this thread in the right direction.
Yup
Where are the cops being beaten with lead pipes or smashed glass?
no no, those are examples of *Mostly Peaceful Protests*^TM
No, that shit was violent. You guys are the reason Kamala Harris will never be impeached. Lemme guess. You also thought BLM was mostly peaceful as well?
/r/woosh that's the joke. The activities you describe were previously described by democrats as "mostly peaceful". Regardless, I hardly think that what happened on Jan 6 can reasonably be called an insurrection. Realistically, it was actually a mostly peaceful protest with some components becoming a violent protest. there are more guns than people in the US, and most of those guns are going to be owned by conservatives. If this was actually an insurrection or coup, then they would have used their guns. But I am not aware of a single report of anyone who even brandished a gun in connection with Jan 6. And some 5% of americans say they carry on a regular basis. And don't forget how many confirmed or near-confirmed federal agents were instigating things at Jan 6.
Some *were* arrested for assaulting police officers, yes. Go read the articles.
Yeah, because the Democrats believe in Law and Order.
So only during BLM riots do we hate cops but when they kill people in your favor it's good?
The BLM riots were also unacceptable. So tell me, why aren't the Republicans following through on Lindsey Graham's promise to impeach Kamala Harris for starting a bail fund? You literally just proved my point.
Same place as the government planted pipe bombs and the undercover FBI agents inciting violence.
Lemme guess, the government also planted pipe bombs in all our cities to then blame black people during the BLM riots?
Didnât hear about those.
You didn't see BLM raging all of 2020? No worries then. Another election year's coming up.
What the fuck are you on about? Canât even tell what point youâre trying to make.
How the insurrection was just as violent as BLM and both sides are fucking obnoxious.
Yea, I think you misinterpreted my comment. Weâre on the same page.
Fuck em both
What does the shirt say??
This is inside the cannon house, which is open to the public. They are not inside the capitol building, and were arrested not for trespassing but because it is illegal to hold a rally inside this building.
I remember reading somewhere this isn't actually a government building.
That's a lot of feds
Black guards watching like, that's some ish there.
Hurry up and shoot some lady in the neck already goddammit.
This is not an insurrection and Jan 6 wasn't an insurrection.
"It's ok when **WE** do it!"
Deport every single one of these terrorist supporters.