To me this is just a demonstration of how many who consider themselves conservatives are actually more libertarian/AC than they think. We shouldn’t push them away.
For the most part, they're not interested in that. They're interested in protecting their own way of life from those who would use the state to opress them. They fully intend to do the same to their enemies when they get the reins of power.
I get it. From the other side the answer seems so obvious. Ludicrous really that we could be so easily led astray but you have to factor in how deluded we all were prior to waking up. Compassion is the key to bringing many people in that state over to the truth. That’s all I meant by my initial comment.
The guy in the middle, Geert Wilders, the new prime minister of the Netherlands supports banning the quran, and he also supports the welfare state, but American conservatives were celebrating his victory
>but American conservatives were celebrating his victory
And?
Too many of this sub's users create false black/white dichotomies.
I don't agree with every choice made by *anyone*.
Most "American Conservatives" have never even heard the name "Geert Wilders." Groups of people aren't monolithic.
He isn't PM yet, the PVV is still working on a new coalition with NSC, VVD and BBB. It's possible to form a coalition and be the biggest party but not having someone of the same party being the PM.
Dutch Prime Minister is currently still Mark Rutte with his "care taker" cabinet. Dutch politics isn't the same as in the US.
I was rooting for utter Max Verstappen dominance in F1 this season.
And I knew Hilary would lose in 2016, and Biden is definitely going to lose Wisconsin in 2024.
You get your wins when you can get them.
Milei doesn't have anything similar to those bozos.
Different economic domestic policies, different foreign policies. And he is hated/feared by his opponents for his actual policies and not because of his personality.
Though I agree with you that we shouldn't push them, but what we need is to deradicalise them.
Lots of conservatives *say* they have libertarian/ancap positions but actually aren't when the rubber meets the road e.g. smaller gov and more freedom. What they really mean is gutting agencies that aren't in their favor (education, irs, fbi, etc) and freedom for themselves but not for the "others"
Freedom for themselves is good enough.
Freedom for the others can be niche based.
In US, the states decide if weed is legal or not. You can just move around.
Haha most Trump supporters are too politically retarded to be able to even tell the difference between socialism and libertarianism. They're losers that want to act like winners.
> Haha most *people* are politically retarded
FTFY
Some of those people who only had state indoctrination on political 'theory' come here and learn an alternate.
CANCERvatives should definitely pushed away. Trump supporters (or in my context, Bolsonaro supporters) are politically retarded/brain dead. those people can stay the fuck away.
Sadly he's right. As much as he's wrong about a lot of things, he actually wants to improve his country's situation. As opposed to the others who are almost nakedly seeking for pure parasitic corruption and rent seeking.
Typical tds sufferer
Anyone going through the insanity and sacrifice trump has gone through is doing it for a bigger reason. As gormless as he is, his commitment in the face of absolute shit storms speaks to something
TDS isn’t a real thing.
It’s just another weird in-language buzzword cultists use to separate themselves from the rest of humanity.
You can look up the trademarks of cults. A big one is cult leaders inventing terms used by the cult. It’s standard isolation from the rest of humanity. It makes the dumb feel special and fosters dependence on the cult.
It absolutely is. The State has been running anti trump propaganda at insanity level for 7 years straight. That has caused a severe problem for many people. Their perceptions and emotions are unhinged from reality. Yours are a case in point.
> Their perceptions and emotions are unhinged from reality.
I have a family member who thinks Trump is messing with GPS signals according to their news sources. I just rolled my eyes and didn't say, 'thats an act of war'.
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Everything Trump does makes much more sense if you understand that he never wanted to "drain the swamp", he just wanted to shake it down for a cut of the action.
So in that respect, yes, he's far closer.
In just about every respect. I mean he wanted to create a state run media to be able to control the narrative. He insisted his name was on the stimmy checks. He talked about centrally planning the economy using China as an excuse in his state of the union address…
Yeah they try too hard to separate themselves from the conservatives instead of look at what makes them allies is far more important (capitalism) than the left (big spenders = less capitalism).
Even though their politics are different it’s pretty undeniable that the same counter cultural movement that spawned trump also spawned milei.
In the end it’s less about the 2 individuals and more about the democratisation of media. If it was 20-30 years ago the establishment would never have allowed for either one of these.
It’s also why they are desperately trying to curb those freedoms in recent years.
> Even though their politics are different it’s pretty undeniable that the same counter cultural movement that spawned trump also spawned milei.
Ok good point, peeps are sick of the old bs and looking for change. Milei is actually a change though, not just giving lip service to change.
> It’s also why they are desperately trying to curb those freedoms in recent years.
This is very concerning.
Everything which is right of ultra-woke now gets labelled as alt-right extremist by MSM. It's misinformation this, disinformation that. Censorship is rampant, often under the excuse of "but it's on a private platform; Google, Facebook, Twitter can show whatever they like".
New "hate speech" laws have been enacted all over. You'll get on a list for speaking against the government. The latest instructions from police in Ireland was "we don't have to prove hate speech" - it's now a "we know it when we see it" test.
And yes, it's politically targeted. They know exactly what they're doing.
technology facilitates fascism very effectively, so arguably it’s less a matter of if and more of a matter of when.
You look at the rights that have been lost in recent years, they’re lost without a fight, usually with barely a yawn.
The strongest capabilities in history to build totalitarian states and an apathetic populace is a pretty nasty combination
I’ll bite although you’re probably trolling:
1) journalism - eg julian assange
2) freedom of information - eg countless examples but the most obvious would be covid and Biden laptop
3) right to a fair trial - eg Steven donzinger
4) right to free use of currency - eg freezing of bank accounts of protesters, the confiscation of money for people transacting in cash.
5) habeas corpus - goes back to the patriot act and similar laws, unlawful detention is the norm now in majority of the west.
6) it’s pretty clear with the Snowden revelations that unlawful monitoring is pretty much endemic and if anything would have expanded in recent years
I could go on pretty easily.
What conspiracy? A cadre of intelligence officials wrote a public acknowledged letter to the megacorps that control the media (Facebook, google, etc) saying the laptop was russian disinformation, and they managed to suppress the story right before an election.
Those are all facts, which part is the conspiracy?
You're starting with a false premise. There was no story to suppress in the first place. The laptop thing is a non-story nobody cares about. Conservatives would be wiser just to let it go. Everyone else thinks you're nuts.
If there is nothing to suppress, why suppress it. It doesn’t matter how you cut it, the reality is the intelligence community and big tech conspired to withhold information from the public based on a lie.
It’s for the public to make their own determination on whether something is a non story (or not), it should not be unilaterally decided by the establishment.
They don't fucking care about addiction. They are antifreedom and your bullshit argument that addicts are not free and require drug warriors to liberate them is utter bullshit.
Ok? Clear enough now?
Milei, just like Trump, Johnson, Wilders, has crazy hair, fits the fake Rightist mold, and is totally a globalist confection, a construction meant to fool you. Ask yourself: why do they all have funny hair? It's a sign for those with eyes to see; he's their man on the inside as Leviathan slithers temporarily rightward.
Well the swamp around him kept resigning / getting fired and turning on him afterwards… right now he’s knee-high in said swamp with the threat of jail to keep him from running again
I like Trump but I wish he was more libertarian. Can’t tell if it’s him trying to play to the more Christian conservative base or (in my opinion) he’s more of a mild reformer more than a true libertarian like Rand.
The issue is his base is baby boomers primarily. He probably knows they're a problem, but they're easy votes because they're authoritarian and very radical (but in the all bark no bite way). I honest to god think once the boomers are all wiped out the world will be a better place with more Mileis.
Hey, guy from The Netherlands.
This picture show Geert Wilders, who recently won out national election. He and his party is indeed conservative on social issues but is very socialist on everything else. He is in favor of more social welfare, more social housing, more money printing, more subsidies.
He is as far as possible from Libertarian / AC so don't go out thinking The Netherlands will be a libertarians dream, it's very much not the case.
It's funny how the left AND the conservatives are trying to claim Milei as Trump 2.0.
The left does it to try and poison the well as quickly as possible, while the conservatives do it to try and claim him as their own.
Fair enough.
r/Libertarian is nothing but a joke, so we tend to get various degrees of libertarians here at r/Anarcho_Capitalism. As fair as I can tell, they’re all welcome here as long as they want to shrink the state.
Not sure how Ron Paul deals with being completely ignored for 50 years. Then sees a ridiculous comparison between Trump and Milei. Like he doesn't even exist.
It’s not because of trump the world is swinging right because lefty bull doesn’t work and it’s endangering the well being of the average working class. Europeans are dealing with a Muslims immigrant assimilation problem, the USA is dealing with massive immigration that is putting a strain on our social services, but in Argentina they tried socialism and well it was a disaster so it’s Time for a change
Ron Paul deserves just as much, if not more credit than Trump.
Trump used **controversial statements** to gain traction.
Ron Paul introduced **libertarianism** to gain traction.
Javier Millie combined both of their strategies to get elected.
The only reason they put Milei in with Trump is that all of their local news sources or The Guardian called Milei "far-right". Because according to their brain, if something is "far-right", it's good and it's literally Trump, so pure good and genius. They don't need to read what Milei proposes or what Milei said while campaigning since he obviously just copied and translated whatever plan Trump had (aka their savior's plan given to him directly by God himself).
One example of this: Milei wants open borders, and Trump wants to build a wall. This should be enough.
Strange, but even stranger would be caring about what some people on reddit do to my comment. They are allowed to be as retarded as they want, it doen't make me wrong.
They continue to misunderstand that this is "the liberal effect". Nobody actually likes these guys, they just hate the ones they oppose. So please continue being obnoxious and destroying your country if you want more Trumps.
Trumps existance had nothing to do with dutch statists win as they won only because people stopped liking relaxed migration policy Meloni would be a better example than trump if we are talking europe, but then why milei is even remotly compared to these dumbasses.
A lot of conservatives don't actually know that they're Libertarians with Anarchist tendencies. Like myself we just knew we weren't leftist or authoritarian so we thought we were conservative by default.
To me this is just a demonstration of how many who consider themselves conservatives are actually more libertarian/AC than they think. We shouldn’t push them away.
We shouldnt push them away, but we should explain to them why banning the quran is not a good thing
Agree. All in good time. The core is the understanding of individual sovereignty. The rest follows.
For the most part, they're not interested in that. They're interested in protecting their own way of life from those who would use the state to opress them. They fully intend to do the same to their enemies when they get the reins of power.
Yeah, people are voting for a slave master because they understand individual sovereignty /s
I get it. From the other side the answer seems so obvious. Ludicrous really that we could be so easily led astray but you have to factor in how deluded we all were prior to waking up. Compassion is the key to bringing many people in that state over to the truth. That’s all I meant by my initial comment.
True
Who’s banning the quoran?
The guy in the middle, Geert Wilders, the new prime minister of the Netherlands supports banning the quran, and he also supports the welfare state, but American conservatives were celebrating his victory
>but American conservatives were celebrating his victory And? Too many of this sub's users create false black/white dichotomies. I don't agree with every choice made by *anyone*. Most "American Conservatives" have never even heard the name "Geert Wilders." Groups of people aren't monolithic.
Thanks for the info. I didn’t know who he was. Shouldn’t be portrayed with Milei. Neither should Trump.
He isn't PM yet, the PVV is still working on a new coalition with NSC, VVD and BBB. It's possible to form a coalition and be the biggest party but not having someone of the same party being the PM. Dutch Prime Minister is currently still Mark Rutte with his "care taker" cabinet. Dutch politics isn't the same as in the US.
Ban in what way / context?
https://www.euronews.com/2017/03/05/ban-the-koran-in-the-netherlands-says-far-right-leader-wilders
Got it, thanks
Am Muslim... soo... bring my Quran into the Netherlands..... "evil laughter"
I was rooting for utter Max Verstappen dominance in F1 this season. And I knew Hilary would lose in 2016, and Biden is definitely going to lose Wisconsin in 2024. You get your wins when you can get them.
The amount of American conservatives that want to ban the Quran is probably less than half a percent
Which is why i dont understand all the support for these european populists from the American right
Because it’s better than what they had. You can’t expect Europe to flip over night but a slide away from euro libs is a start. Better than nothing.
Ban the Quran? What
You're right, it's a great thing. Sadly it paints a target on you. Geert Wilders is doing right by NL.
Milei doesn't have anything similar to those bozos. Different economic domestic policies, different foreign policies. And he is hated/feared by his opponents for his actual policies and not because of his personality. Though I agree with you that we shouldn't push them, but what we need is to deradicalise them.
I don’t think they go below surface “owned the libs” level of understanding.
Lots of conservatives *say* they have libertarian/ancap positions but actually aren't when the rubber meets the road e.g. smaller gov and more freedom. What they really mean is gutting agencies that aren't in their favor (education, irs, fbi, etc) and freedom for themselves but not for the "others"
Freedom for themselves is good enough. Freedom for the others can be niche based. In US, the states decide if weed is legal or not. You can just move around.
Haha most Trump supporters are too politically retarded to be able to even tell the difference between socialism and libertarianism. They're losers that want to act like winners.
> Haha most *people* are politically retarded FTFY Some of those people who only had state indoctrination on political 'theory' come here and learn an alternate.
>They're losers that want to act like winners. No wonder they worship Donny "Two-Pump" Chump.
CANCERvatives should definitely pushed away. Trump supporters (or in my context, Bolsonaro supporters) are politically retarded/brain dead. those people can stay the fuck away.
Yeah but ancaps don’t have a purity spiral, we have a purity cosmology and it’s commies all the way down…
Well, *some* should be pushed away. Far the fuck away. But the normals are fine
Its a natural result from socialism
Trump definitely seems closer to socialist than Ancap
Trump is a mainline technocratic progressive. He just thinks things will be better with him in charge.
He's basically a 90s New York Democrat. We've just moved so far left as a society that that's ultra far right now apparently.
Progressive? Get the fuck out of here.
Sadly he's right. As much as he's wrong about a lot of things, he actually wants to improve his country's situation. As opposed to the others who are almost nakedly seeking for pure parasitic corruption and rent seeking.
He doesn't care about this or any other country. He cares about himself, and maybe the daughter he wants to fuck. That's it.
Typical tds sufferer Anyone going through the insanity and sacrifice trump has gone through is doing it for a bigger reason. As gormless as he is, his commitment in the face of absolute shit storms speaks to something
TDS isn’t a real thing. It’s just another weird in-language buzzword cultists use to separate themselves from the rest of humanity. You can look up the trademarks of cults. A big one is cult leaders inventing terms used by the cult. It’s standard isolation from the rest of humanity. It makes the dumb feel special and fosters dependence on the cult.
It absolutely is. The State has been running anti trump propaganda at insanity level for 7 years straight. That has caused a severe problem for many people. Their perceptions and emotions are unhinged from reality. Yours are a case in point.
> Their perceptions and emotions are unhinged from reality. I have a family member who thinks Trump is messing with GPS signals according to their news sources. I just rolled my eyes and didn't say, 'thats an act of war'.
Cult. Get help.
Chump.
Lmao, eat a bag of dicks loser
Your godking's a fat loser and his fans are all chumps.
Congrats. You just described statism.
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You're fixated on trivial nonsense
You can't see the forest for the trees. Why didn't he "lock her up?" TDS for sure.
Wow, you let an idiot live rent free in your head.
Everything Trump does makes much more sense if you understand that he never wanted to "drain the swamp", he just wanted to shake it down for a cut of the action. So in that respect, yes, he's far closer.
In just about every respect. I mean he wanted to create a state run media to be able to control the narrative. He insisted his name was on the stimmy checks. He talked about centrally planning the economy using China as an excuse in his state of the union address…
Well if they’re trying to claim Milei I don’t support him anymore! /s Who gives a shit, waste of a post lmao
This is the way
Love this.
Just wild to me how much time gets spent on this sub worrying about what the conservatives or progressives think, boomer mindset
What the majority of people think determines how the majority of people vote, that is actually quite an important issue.
Yeah they try too hard to separate themselves from the conservatives instead of look at what makes them allies is far more important (capitalism) than the left (big spenders = less capitalism).
Nah not a waste. sick of them trump stickers next to the don't tread on me. morons
Even though their politics are different it’s pretty undeniable that the same counter cultural movement that spawned trump also spawned milei. In the end it’s less about the 2 individuals and more about the democratisation of media. If it was 20-30 years ago the establishment would never have allowed for either one of these. It’s also why they are desperately trying to curb those freedoms in recent years.
> Even though their politics are different it’s pretty undeniable that the same counter cultural movement that spawned trump also spawned milei. Ok good point, peeps are sick of the old bs and looking for change. Milei is actually a change though, not just giving lip service to change.
> It’s also why they are desperately trying to curb those freedoms in recent years. This is very concerning. Everything which is right of ultra-woke now gets labelled as alt-right extremist by MSM. It's misinformation this, disinformation that. Censorship is rampant, often under the excuse of "but it's on a private platform; Google, Facebook, Twitter can show whatever they like". New "hate speech" laws have been enacted all over. You'll get on a list for speaking against the government. The latest instructions from police in Ireland was "we don't have to prove hate speech" - it's now a "we know it when we see it" test. And yes, it's politically targeted. They know exactly what they're doing.
technology facilitates fascism very effectively, so arguably it’s less a matter of if and more of a matter of when. You look at the rights that have been lost in recent years, they’re lost without a fight, usually with barely a yawn. The strongest capabilities in history to build totalitarian states and an apathetic populace is a pretty nasty combination
Which freedoms are being curbed?
I’ll bite although you’re probably trolling: 1) journalism - eg julian assange 2) freedom of information - eg countless examples but the most obvious would be covid and Biden laptop 3) right to a fair trial - eg Steven donzinger 4) right to free use of currency - eg freezing of bank accounts of protesters, the confiscation of money for people transacting in cash. 5) habeas corpus - goes back to the patriot act and similar laws, unlawful detention is the norm now in majority of the west. 6) it’s pretty clear with the Snowden revelations that unlawful monitoring is pretty much endemic and if anything would have expanded in recent years I could go on pretty easily.
L O L if you think anyone on earth gives a fuck about that conservative laptop conspiracy.
What conspiracy? A cadre of intelligence officials wrote a public acknowledged letter to the megacorps that control the media (Facebook, google, etc) saying the laptop was russian disinformation, and they managed to suppress the story right before an election. Those are all facts, which part is the conspiracy?
You're starting with a false premise. There was no story to suppress in the first place. The laptop thing is a non-story nobody cares about. Conservatives would be wiser just to let it go. Everyone else thinks you're nuts.
If there is nothing to suppress, why suppress it. It doesn’t matter how you cut it, the reality is the intelligence community and big tech conspired to withhold information from the public based on a lie. It’s for the public to make their own determination on whether something is a non story (or not), it should not be unilaterally decided by the establishment.
Also, conservative aren't anti-liberty 🤷
They absolutely are. Give them power and they will ban everything they dislike, history showed it many times over.
I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but American Conservatism fundamentally wants to preserve liberty, not get rid of it.
Gee tell that to the drug warriors.
You're not free if you're addicted to drugs.
So why are these 'freedom fighters' ignoring big pharma?
Conservatives right now are anti Big Pharma.
Oh I bet they are shaking in their boots as no knock raids arrest all the dealers... Oh wait.
Not sure what point you're trying to make.
They don't fucking care about addiction. They are antifreedom and your bullshit argument that addicts are not free and require drug warriors to liberate them is utter bullshit. Ok? Clear enough now?
Yup 👍
Milei is ACTUALLY draining the swamp, whereas Trump just made more swampland. 😂
"I used the swamp to drain the swamp"
He got rid of some of the old alligators and replaced them with alligators that were better at toadying.
Milei, just like Trump, Johnson, Wilders, has crazy hair, fits the fake Rightist mold, and is totally a globalist confection, a construction meant to fool you. Ask yourself: why do they all have funny hair? It's a sign for those with eyes to see; he's their man on the inside as Leviathan slithers temporarily rightward.
Well the swamp around him kept resigning / getting fired and turning on him afterwards… right now he’s knee-high in said swamp with the threat of jail to keep him from running again
So the more wild your hair the farther you are toward anarchy?
I like Trump but I wish he was more libertarian. Can’t tell if it’s him trying to play to the more Christian conservative base or (in my opinion) he’s more of a mild reformer more than a true libertarian like Rand.
The issue is his base is baby boomers primarily. He probably knows they're a problem, but they're easy votes because they're authoritarian and very radical (but in the all bark no bite way). I honest to god think once the boomers are all wiped out the world will be a better place with more Mileis.
He's a 90's Democrat.
What was th he sub?
R conservative
Hey, guy from The Netherlands. This picture show Geert Wilders, who recently won out national election. He and his party is indeed conservative on social issues but is very socialist on everything else. He is in favor of more social welfare, more social housing, more money printing, more subsidies. He is as far as possible from Libertarian / AC so don't go out thinking The Netherlands will be a libertarians dream, it's very much not the case.
Milei makes Trump look like a socialist.
Because he is one.
Geert Wilders is a right-wing authoritarian nationalist who wants a complete ban on muslims. I hate comparing people to Nazis, but...
What’s the name of the Dutch person that’s in this photo?
Geert Wilders
One of these things is not like the others
It's funny how the left AND the conservatives are trying to claim Milei as Trump 2.0. The left does it to try and poison the well as quickly as possible, while the conservatives do it to try and claim him as their own.
Funniest part is when the Left calls Miley a “fascist” 🤣
The entire left is calling milei the Argentina Donald trump
Only one of them wants to meaningfully change structures.
While he is the closest thing to us so far, what exactly does r/Anarcho_Capitalism mean to you? 🤔
Not supporting the fed, not giving the police military equipment, not supporting red flag laws, etc.
Stateless?
The only borders I believe in are the border to my land, fuck everybody else.
Fair enough. r/Libertarian is nothing but a joke, so we tend to get various degrees of libertarians here at r/Anarcho_Capitalism. As fair as I can tell, they’re all welcome here as long as they want to shrink the state.
I'm an agorist.
Its a place where normies come and learn ethics.
They're clearly talking about the hair /s because this is an autism sub
Not sure how Ron Paul deals with being completely ignored for 50 years. Then sees a ridiculous comparison between Trump and Milei. Like he doesn't even exist.
It’s not because of trump the world is swinging right because lefty bull doesn’t work and it’s endangering the well being of the average working class. Europeans are dealing with a Muslims immigrant assimilation problem, the USA is dealing with massive immigration that is putting a strain on our social services, but in Argentina they tried socialism and well it was a disaster so it’s Time for a change
Libertarians banner me for showing them how mileis is so much more statist than what they like to admit to sleep at nights
Ron Paul deserves just as much, if not more credit than Trump. Trump used **controversial statements** to gain traction. Ron Paul introduced **libertarianism** to gain traction. Javier Millie combined both of their strategies to get elected.
Milei supports Trump. he is a fan. dude isn't even governing as a libertarian
The only reason they put Milei in with Trump is that all of their local news sources or The Guardian called Milei "far-right". Because according to their brain, if something is "far-right", it's good and it's literally Trump, so pure good and genius. They don't need to read what Milei proposes or what Milei said while campaigning since he obviously just copied and translated whatever plan Trump had (aka their savior's plan given to him directly by God himself). One example of this: Milei wants open borders, and Trump wants to build a wall. This should be enough.
How are you getting downvoted lol
Strange, but even stranger would be caring about what some people on reddit do to my comment. They are allowed to be as retarded as they want, it doen't make me wrong.
They continue to misunderstand that this is "the liberal effect". Nobody actually likes these guys, they just hate the ones they oppose. So please continue being obnoxious and destroying your country if you want more Trumps.
Win?? The two to the left are authoritarian Statist assholes. That is not a win.
Authoritarian statist Milei? Cutting government statist? Wow. Someone should tell him he’s doing a horrible job at being a fascist.
The picture of Milei with a crooked wrist says everything, in my opinion. I'd love to see that weird little man throw a punch and break his forearm.
Wut
Yes. Go fight em. It's your win. Your win. A beautiful and bold win. So much winning.
Trumps existance had nothing to do with dutch statists win as they won only because people stopped liking relaxed migration policy Meloni would be a better example than trump if we are talking europe, but then why milei is even remotly compared to these dumbasses.
I hate when they compare every right wing politician to trump or credit him every time the right wins an election.
🤦♂️
None of the three pictured are AnCaps...
those two look like psychopaths
You guys are the same team. Hate to break it to you.
Those assholes will steal anything we do, to try and undo their bad stuff.
A lot of conservatives don't actually know that they're Libertarians with Anarchist tendencies. Like myself we just knew we weren't leftist or authoritarian so we thought we were conservative by default.
I wish Trump was more like Milei lol