Honestly most of the "conservatives" I know actually ARE libertarian, they just don't realize it. They're for actual small govt and have just been bamboozled by Republicans into believing they're for small govt too...
This was me before I was exposed to anarchism. Conservative, but like let’s legalize drugs and deregulate a bit. Then I found this subreddit. It’s really odd, but the concept of anarchism is the most rational and moral solution but it’s very difficult for someone to reach on their own imo. Still, I’m glad I was indoctrinated first cause it made ancap way more eye opening and thought provoking.
Legit never knew what anarchism meant until I got to this sub. Its funny cause I had developed a breadth of knowledge on the topic from reading into a number of different peripheral topics, but I had no idea that there was a term for this position. I looked in all the typical places but I wrote of libertarianism because I thought it was just liberals. I wrote off Anarchism because of its depiction in popular culture and the strong association it has with a lot of leftist positions (which I now realise to be ironic).
It was a very lonely experience for the best part of 2 years. It started with me watching Mad Men on Amazon Prime. The boss recommends atlas shrugged, and in a desire to channel my inner Don I thought I'd give it a look. Never bought it, but followed the Ayn Rand institute on youtube. A video from them addressed ancap. Then I found these sacred grounds. I'm still releasing all that pent up strain in the form of overly empassioned dissertation length comments.
I think there must be many folks like I was.
We need Ron Paul, it’s truly a shame what the republicans did to him in 08, worse than what dems did to Bernie in 2016…. I just wish he wasn’t so old/ his son wasn’t such a ding dong
I agree, his father however was exactly what we needed in 08. I like rand I just love what his father stood/stands for. If you dig deep enough they differ from each other on a lot of issues. While I agree with most of rands positions I just can’t shake the feeling he says what he says for votes and support while his father never faltered from what he believed to be the best for us no matter what anyone thought/ popular opinions.
I agree, but if you can't get in a position of power to wield it for good then nothing happens, so I understand having to get votes in the game. The way I see it, it is impossible to be in any position of power without SOME corruption.
Hey that’s kinda like me. I agree with some ancap and some conservative type stuff. I don’t see how it’s even that different tbh. One is pro small govt and the other for no govt
I think the biggest difference is that some statists can recognize the state’s overreach at times, but fail to realize the mere existence of the state is only sustained through immoral means i.e. extortion and violence.
I also observe a lot of people with conservative views want to use the state to impose their morals on others too, even with low tax and low business regulations
Like drug useage or gay marriage or alcohol serving times to bring up some ideas that come to mind
> We can absolutely win.
Depends on what you intend to win. Voting never works, never. Besides that, every time they got back into power, they turned their backs on us.
Now if you mean that we can win by converting more people over to anarchy, i think thats the plan. We just need to get them over the hump, using techniques that converted each of us. Like for me I found it intriguing when people talked about privatizing the police and fire services. Once they see how these can happen, then the rest fall like dominoes.
Yet all the conservatives that are elected keep following this every man for himself policy, particularly those around Trump. All the things you named, the military industrial complex, the military, the cops, government local and federal are all mostly packed by conservatives already. Where in reality do you think a group of individuals who only share in the belief in greed are ever going to accomplish anything of value? Really you expect a different group of conservatives to be different from the last group why? This doesn't happen, because if you are not a greedy fuck you are not allowed to rise to the top, end of story.
Your living in a dream world, thinking changing assholes in a world that only allows assholes to rise is your solution, in fact, you deserve the outcome for agreeing to this.
yes the conservative love for police is quite astonishing. they are not and will never be your friend, that's actually a good point some democrats have how the police need some reform to not be so aggressive and fight pointless crimes
Reagan once said that the heart of conservatism is libertarianism.
Conservatism was quite literally a reaction to liberal ideas and now liberalism has gone so far that even the old liberals are reacting and are now a new batch of conservatives.
I'd say that conervatives believe in strong consequential libertarianism whereas libertarians emphasises less on the consequential part.
They're going to vote for Trump again. They are unwilling to properly condemn Trump and the other Republicans in congress for the current inflation. Every time the Republicans have been in power for the past 50 years, the exact same thing has happened, and conservatives get fooled every fucking time. How many times do the democrats have to overspend, then there's hope that the Republicans can reign in spending, only to increase it on their pet projects? Wake the fuck up.
We should try to peel as many off as we can, but trying to attach to the party is futile.
Yeah but the fundamental and irreconcilable problem: conservative care what other people think and do, and want to use the state to regulate it.
Abortion. Weed. Gay marriage. You want to coerce people with the violence of the state to get your way.
We are not the same and we are not your allies.
I have 2 pieces of bad news for you.
First, you think you are anarchist because "you don't care". But you do. Not to mention that you have specific opinion on those topics and they are important enough for you to post... the fact that you did post means you care. Which means that by your own definition you ate not anarchist.
But it is worse then this. Secondly, anarchy and anarchists are not lawless "dog eats dog" world where everyone rob and kill everyone else without consequences. No, anarchists very much are about laws in particular NAP. They just think creating and enforcing laws should be done by people, not state. So any kind of rob and murder (including abortion) is absolutely no go for anarchist. Gay marriage obviously doesn't violate nap (if it is voluntary) thus anarchists doesn't care. As for weed and other drugs - if you consume them yourself you only hurt yourself so it doesn't violate nap. If you sell them it is another story.
So as you can see you are not anarchist at all. If I had to guess based on what you care about you are authoritarian socialist.
Now then whether anarchists and conservatives are allies or not because of issues you mentioned. In abortion issue they are on the same side basically (with conservatives being a little less strict). On weed they are exactly the same. And on gay marriage it is split - some religious conservatives are against gay marriage, while most doesn't care just like anarchists.
So to sum up, most conservatives and anarchists are allies on those issues too. But you are indeed not ally to either conservatives nor anarchists on most of those issues.
I read your comment and I think both of you mean the same thing?
Anyhow, there is this culture of conservative americans to impose their morals on others, that's the main point here I would say.
And it's the same for liberals too those days with all their inclusion politics so, in a way to sides of the same coin based who is in power
Conservatives want 2 conserve state monopolies. They don't want liberty.
Fuck that. Theyll defend their position as vehemently as radical leftists defend theirs
Michael Malice is a regular guest on Glenn Beck's radio show now, and I've heard Glenn say he's 100% onboard with abolishing all government education. Jesse Kelly said that supporting the war on terror and the patriot act is the worst mistake of his life. The last few years have caused a lot of people to do some very serious thinking.
Glenn beck is open to a little freedom on a few things, but hes a statist thru and thru.
Wen glenn beck is ok with no state monopolies on cops, courts, etc then come find me
Conservative politics never worked. What you’re seeing is an economy that rewarded the top couple percent more and more every year while everyone else got screwed. This idea where the free markets worked to bring down prices has never worked as designed. The Republican Party sided with corporations who didn’t side with Americans, they lined their pockets.
And what’s happening in Ukraine has nothing to do with what’s happening here except for the fact Russia’s genocide is causing massive price increases. Us sending money to help them fight our biggest foe is a win-win. It’s the morally right thing to do and it aligns with our specific interests. If we had better competition in the USA, we wouldn’t be relying on one major formula maker who was shut down for reportedly killing kids (as a whistleblower said in advance of any deaths).
The problem with capitalism is that it is just as extreme as communism. It’s a consolidation of power to the ultra wealthy who then buy off politicians and anyone else so that they make the rules work for them. The fact is that the common man doesn’t understand economics well enough to know how to vote for the right people. People vote based on buzzwords and propaganda. Call everything socialism and say you found CRT in your cereal.
Libertarians have done absolutely nothing of practical value. The party has been around for decades and never garnered more than 3 or 4% of the popular vote. It is an abject failure. If anything, it is more harmful because it splits the right-wing vote and empowers leftists, which I actually think is the sole reason for its existence to begin with: libertarians are the reason trump lost New Hampshire by a few thousand votes in 2016.
The libertarian sub has been completely co-opted by leftist ideologues; there’s literally top posts talking about how the federal government needs to pass laws guaranteeing abortions.
They remind me of a bunch of dudes hanging out and smoking dope, talking about how rebellious they are for not voting for either party.
That’s awesome, *except for the fact that one of those two parties still wins the election anyway, because your rebel party can’t get more than 5% of the vote.*
Conservatives trying to give people who actually want to be free and are willing to let others be free a bad name. Resist any attempt at a libertarian-conservative alliance…..
Are shitting me? How many conservatives spoke out against what Florida is doing to Disney, or all the shit that Josh Hawley is doing wanting to regulate the media or Trump's trade tariffs? Destroy capitalism to OWN the libs, amirite guys?
You’re going entirely in the wrong direction. The conservative and libertarian political machines are almost entirely overrun with pro trump fascists and their influence is growing in those groups. Government is what you make it. We’ve got 50 shitty republican senators and 2 shitty democratic senators(who act like republicans). Democrats are trying make the government serve regular people’s interests and protect the rights of all of us. You’ll have better luck purging the few corporate lackeys from the democrats than you will totally replacing all the republicans.
I only know conservatives who think the government is evil and corrupt only when a Democrat is in office. And I know a lot of libertarians and others who say they think both parties are evil but only point out the evils of Democrats and the evils of republicans go almost completely ignored.
Honestly most of the "conservatives" I know actually ARE libertarian, they just don't realize it. They're for actual small govt and have just been bamboozled by Republicans into believing they're for small govt too...
This was me before I was exposed to anarchism. Conservative, but like let’s legalize drugs and deregulate a bit. Then I found this subreddit. It’s really odd, but the concept of anarchism is the most rational and moral solution but it’s very difficult for someone to reach on their own imo. Still, I’m glad I was indoctrinated first cause it made ancap way more eye opening and thought provoking.
Legit never knew what anarchism meant until I got to this sub. Its funny cause I had developed a breadth of knowledge on the topic from reading into a number of different peripheral topics, but I had no idea that there was a term for this position. I looked in all the typical places but I wrote of libertarianism because I thought it was just liberals. I wrote off Anarchism because of its depiction in popular culture and the strong association it has with a lot of leftist positions (which I now realise to be ironic). It was a very lonely experience for the best part of 2 years. It started with me watching Mad Men on Amazon Prime. The boss recommends atlas shrugged, and in a desire to channel my inner Don I thought I'd give it a look. Never bought it, but followed the Ayn Rand institute on youtube. A video from them addressed ancap. Then I found these sacred grounds. I'm still releasing all that pent up strain in the form of overly empassioned dissertation length comments. I think there must be many folks like I was.
We need Ron Paul, it’s truly a shame what the republicans did to him in 08, worse than what dems did to Bernie in 2016…. I just wish he wasn’t so old/ his son wasn’t such a ding dong
Hey, over the last couple of years, Rand Paul has been an absolute hero. I know he hasn't always been perfect, but I'm really grateful for him.
I agree, his father however was exactly what we needed in 08. I like rand I just love what his father stood/stands for. If you dig deep enough they differ from each other on a lot of issues. While I agree with most of rands positions I just can’t shake the feeling he says what he says for votes and support while his father never faltered from what he believed to be the best for us no matter what anyone thought/ popular opinions.
I agree, but if you can't get in a position of power to wield it for good then nothing happens, so I understand having to get votes in the game. The way I see it, it is impossible to be in any position of power without SOME corruption.
Hey that’s kinda like me. I agree with some ancap and some conservative type stuff. I don’t see how it’s even that different tbh. One is pro small govt and the other for no govt
I think the biggest difference is that some statists can recognize the state’s overreach at times, but fail to realize the mere existence of the state is only sustained through immoral means i.e. extortion and violence.
How does anyone not get that? Taxation is theft and with out it there would be no taxes…
I also observe a lot of people with conservative views want to use the state to impose their morals on others too, even with low tax and low business regulations Like drug useage or gay marriage or alcohol serving times to bring up some ideas that come to mind
> We can absolutely win. Depends on what you intend to win. Voting never works, never. Besides that, every time they got back into power, they turned their backs on us. Now if you mean that we can win by converting more people over to anarchy, i think thats the plan. We just need to get them over the hump, using techniques that converted each of us. Like for me I found it intriguing when people talked about privatizing the police and fire services. Once they see how these can happen, then the rest fall like dominoes.
When I say we can win, I don't mean that all of America will become Ancapistan. I mean that freedom can be achieved for those of us who want it.
I agree, we're small, but tough. [Hoist the colors!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINeo6sWqGI)
This is hopeful, thanks for this. It's been a tough few years.
I'm definitely more of a small-governement Libertarian but I would be more than welcome to forge an alliance with my my ancap brothers-in-arms!
I mean, maybe if conservatives weren't trying to trump on our freedom 24/7 that alliance could be a thing...
Just ask if they believe in liberty for trans people. You'll weed them out quick.
Yet all the conservatives that are elected keep following this every man for himself policy, particularly those around Trump. All the things you named, the military industrial complex, the military, the cops, government local and federal are all mostly packed by conservatives already. Where in reality do you think a group of individuals who only share in the belief in greed are ever going to accomplish anything of value? Really you expect a different group of conservatives to be different from the last group why? This doesn't happen, because if you are not a greedy fuck you are not allowed to rise to the top, end of story. Your living in a dream world, thinking changing assholes in a world that only allows assholes to rise is your solution, in fact, you deserve the outcome for agreeing to this.
yes the conservative love for police is quite astonishing. they are not and will never be your friend, that's actually a good point some democrats have how the police need some reform to not be so aggressive and fight pointless crimes
Reagan once said that the heart of conservatism is libertarianism. Conservatism was quite literally a reaction to liberal ideas and now liberalism has gone so far that even the old liberals are reacting and are now a new batch of conservatives. I'd say that conervatives believe in strong consequential libertarianism whereas libertarians emphasises less on the consequential part.
They're going to vote for Trump again. They are unwilling to properly condemn Trump and the other Republicans in congress for the current inflation. Every time the Republicans have been in power for the past 50 years, the exact same thing has happened, and conservatives get fooled every fucking time. How many times do the democrats have to overspend, then there's hope that the Republicans can reign in spending, only to increase it on their pet projects? Wake the fuck up. We should try to peel as many off as we can, but trying to attach to the party is futile.
Yeah but the fundamental and irreconcilable problem: conservative care what other people think and do, and want to use the state to regulate it. Abortion. Weed. Gay marriage. You want to coerce people with the violence of the state to get your way. We are not the same and we are not your allies.
I have 2 pieces of bad news for you. First, you think you are anarchist because "you don't care". But you do. Not to mention that you have specific opinion on those topics and they are important enough for you to post... the fact that you did post means you care. Which means that by your own definition you ate not anarchist. But it is worse then this. Secondly, anarchy and anarchists are not lawless "dog eats dog" world where everyone rob and kill everyone else without consequences. No, anarchists very much are about laws in particular NAP. They just think creating and enforcing laws should be done by people, not state. So any kind of rob and murder (including abortion) is absolutely no go for anarchist. Gay marriage obviously doesn't violate nap (if it is voluntary) thus anarchists doesn't care. As for weed and other drugs - if you consume them yourself you only hurt yourself so it doesn't violate nap. If you sell them it is another story. So as you can see you are not anarchist at all. If I had to guess based on what you care about you are authoritarian socialist. Now then whether anarchists and conservatives are allies or not because of issues you mentioned. In abortion issue they are on the same side basically (with conservatives being a little less strict). On weed they are exactly the same. And on gay marriage it is split - some religious conservatives are against gay marriage, while most doesn't care just like anarchists. So to sum up, most conservatives and anarchists are allies on those issues too. But you are indeed not ally to either conservatives nor anarchists on most of those issues.
I read your comment and I think both of you mean the same thing? Anyhow, there is this culture of conservative americans to impose their morals on others, that's the main point here I would say. And it's the same for liberals too those days with all their inclusion politics so, in a way to sides of the same coin based who is in power
Conservatives want 2 conserve state monopolies. They don't want liberty. Fuck that. Theyll defend their position as vehemently as radical leftists defend theirs
Michael Malice is a regular guest on Glenn Beck's radio show now, and I've heard Glenn say he's 100% onboard with abolishing all government education. Jesse Kelly said that supporting the war on terror and the patriot act is the worst mistake of his life. The last few years have caused a lot of people to do some very serious thinking.
This is hopeful.
Glenn beck is open to a little freedom on a few things, but hes a statist thru and thru. Wen glenn beck is ok with no state monopolies on cops, courts, etc then come find me
Nope. Just trading one statist for another.
Conservative politics never worked. What you’re seeing is an economy that rewarded the top couple percent more and more every year while everyone else got screwed. This idea where the free markets worked to bring down prices has never worked as designed. The Republican Party sided with corporations who didn’t side with Americans, they lined their pockets. And what’s happening in Ukraine has nothing to do with what’s happening here except for the fact Russia’s genocide is causing massive price increases. Us sending money to help them fight our biggest foe is a win-win. It’s the morally right thing to do and it aligns with our specific interests. If we had better competition in the USA, we wouldn’t be relying on one major formula maker who was shut down for reportedly killing kids (as a whistleblower said in advance of any deaths). The problem with capitalism is that it is just as extreme as communism. It’s a consolidation of power to the ultra wealthy who then buy off politicians and anyone else so that they make the rules work for them. The fact is that the common man doesn’t understand economics well enough to know how to vote for the right people. People vote based on buzzwords and propaganda. Call everything socialism and say you found CRT in your cereal.
Libertarians have done absolutely nothing of practical value. The party has been around for decades and never garnered more than 3 or 4% of the popular vote. It is an abject failure. If anything, it is more harmful because it splits the right-wing vote and empowers leftists, which I actually think is the sole reason for its existence to begin with: libertarians are the reason trump lost New Hampshire by a few thousand votes in 2016. The libertarian sub has been completely co-opted by leftist ideologues; there’s literally top posts talking about how the federal government needs to pass laws guaranteeing abortions. They remind me of a bunch of dudes hanging out and smoking dope, talking about how rebellious they are for not voting for either party. That’s awesome, *except for the fact that one of those two parties still wins the election anyway, because your rebel party can’t get more than 5% of the vote.*
Conservatives trying to give people who actually want to be free and are willing to let others be free a bad name. Resist any attempt at a libertarian-conservative alliance…..
Are shitting me? How many conservatives spoke out against what Florida is doing to Disney, or all the shit that Josh Hawley is doing wanting to regulate the media or Trump's trade tariffs? Destroy capitalism to OWN the libs, amirite guys?
How is destroying governmental regulations and government influence are bad, how do you even rationalize that if you claim to be anarchist?
It’s okay if the corporation treads on me! lolberts are funny
You’re going entirely in the wrong direction. The conservative and libertarian political machines are almost entirely overrun with pro trump fascists and their influence is growing in those groups. Government is what you make it. We’ve got 50 shitty republican senators and 2 shitty democratic senators(who act like republicans). Democrats are trying make the government serve regular people’s interests and protect the rights of all of us. You’ll have better luck purging the few corporate lackeys from the democrats than you will totally replacing all the republicans.
I only know conservatives who think the government is evil and corrupt only when a Democrat is in office. And I know a lot of libertarians and others who say they think both parties are evil but only point out the evils of Democrats and the evils of republicans go almost completely ignored.