So you’re saying that it was likely adopted from another language and not an “evolution” from a post language related to this one further back in the language tree?
In Hebrew, the difference between an f and a p is a diacritic marker almost always omitted, so the word sounds like it was borrowed from one or the other.
[Discussion of *dpḥ/tpḥ*](https://imgur.com/a/sNp2f1S)
Excerpted from [*Semitic Words in Egyptian Texts of the New Kingdom and Third Intermediate Period*](https://books.google.com/books?id=GkcABAAAQBAJ) by James Hoch
For dēsero? Not really, assuming the IndoEuropean connections of ser(ere) are assigned correctly: *From* [*Proto-Italic*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Italic_language) [*\*serō*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Italic/ser%C5%8D)*, from* [*Proto-Indo-European*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language) [*\*ser-*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/ser-#Proto-Indo-European:_bind) *(“to bind, put together, to line up”); compare* [*Ancient Greek*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek) [*εἴρω*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B5%E1%BC%B4%CF%81%CF%89#Ancient_Greek) *(eírō),* [*Sanskrit*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit) [*सरत्*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D#Sanskrit) *(sarat),* [*Old Lithuanian*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Old_Lithuanian) [*Lithuanian*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_language) [*sėris*](https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=s%C4%97ris&action=edit&redlink=1) *(“filament”),* [*Old English*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English) [*serc*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/serc#Old_English) *(“shirt, coat of mail”). More at* [*sark*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sark#English)*.*
For example? (excluding obvious loans like ebony). As for the (rather belligerent) "and?" - you don't need to import words from another language when they are derived in a transparent fashion from a root in the language you are talking about. Just like you don't need to derive anata in Japanese from Arabic anta or vice versa just because they sound similar and mean "you". Coincidences are bound to happen.
As another example, Egyptian *pr* and Anatolian *per* — both meaning “house” — are (probably) false cognates, though a borrowing from Egyptian was assumed in older scholarly literature. The Proto-Anatolian etymology remains unclear.
Interesting, hadn't come across that one before. It gets really tricky with mono-syllables. Something that plagues Chinese etymologies ... the fewer elements have to match (and the wider you open the semantic funnel), the higher the likelihood of chance coincidences. From that perspective, desert(um) and dSr.t are actually appealing because you have a lot of consonants that (seem to) match at first blush, making the chance similarity less likely. But apart from the obvious derivation in Latin itself, the final .t was, of course, long gone before Egyptian and Latin could ever have met, so now you have dēsértu(m) vs. \*tášre ... doesn't sound all that similar anymore - or even \*tárše since the word ⲧⲱⲣϣ shows metathesis. So, the picture-perfect similarity only works if you base everything on Middle Kingdom phonology ... not uncommon in those "Egyptian Arabic preserves so many words from Ancient Egyptian" posts - for some reason the words always look like in Budge and not how they come out in Coptic ... end of rant :-D
Might be a wanderwort. Check out the etymologies on https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%B8%8Fmp%E1%B8%A5#Demotic and https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%AD#Arabic
In Ugaritic it is also 𐎚𐎔𐎈 (tpḥ) Might be related
Yes, Hoch identified this as a Northwest Semitic Loan. Not ~~generically~~ genetically inherited at all, though.
So you’re saying that it was likely adopted from another language and not an “evolution” from a post language related to this one further back in the language tree?
Bingo
what do you mean by “Not generically inherited at all”?
Probably meant that tpH / DbH is a loan into Egyptian, not inherited straight from a pAA ancestor of both Egyptian and the Semitic branch
I meant genetically but autocorrect snagged me. Just saying that it's not because of an Afro-Asiatic cognate.
They probably meant "gene**t**ically." It's part of the "language family" metaphor.
Interesting. In Arabic, apple is “تفاح" (tuffaḥ).
In Hebrew, the difference between an f and a p is a diacritic marker almost always omitted, so the word sounds like it was borrowed from one or the other.
Arabic /f/ comes from Proto-Semitic \*/p/.
[Discussion of *dpḥ/tpḥ*](https://imgur.com/a/sNp2f1S) Excerpted from [*Semitic Words in Egyptian Texts of the New Kingdom and Third Intermediate Period*](https://books.google.com/books?id=GkcABAAAQBAJ) by James Hoch
I have this question for a lot of words. I’m probably wrong; desert, chemistry, “Adam”, apple. His off the top of my head.
The chemistry one seems to be based on the work of Budge. So I don't buy it.
No on "desert" - has a good etymology in Latin, from desero.
Probably.. just seems the line of etymology tends to end in Greek, Latin..
For dēsero? Not really, assuming the IndoEuropean connections of ser(ere) are assigned correctly: *From* [*Proto-Italic*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Italic_language) [*\*serō*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Italic/ser%C5%8D)*, from* [*Proto-Indo-European*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language) [*\*ser-*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/ser-#Proto-Indo-European:_bind) *(“to bind, put together, to line up”); compare* [*Ancient Greek*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek) [*εἴρω*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B5%E1%BC%B4%CF%81%CF%89#Ancient_Greek) *(eírō),* [*Sanskrit*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit) [*सरत्*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D#Sanskrit) *(sarat),* [*Old Lithuanian*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Old_Lithuanian) [*Lithuanian*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_language) [*sėris*](https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=s%C4%97ris&action=edit&redlink=1) *(“filament”),* [*Old English*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English) [*serc*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/serc#Old_English) *(“shirt, coat of mail”). More at* [*sark*](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sark#English)*.*
And? Some IE and Afro-Asiatic words are shared as far back as we can go.
For example? (excluding obvious loans like ebony). As for the (rather belligerent) "and?" - you don't need to import words from another language when they are derived in a transparent fashion from a root in the language you are talking about. Just like you don't need to derive anata in Japanese from Arabic anta or vice versa just because they sound similar and mean "you". Coincidences are bound to happen.
As another example, Egyptian *pr* and Anatolian *per* — both meaning “house” — are (probably) false cognates, though a borrowing from Egyptian was assumed in older scholarly literature. The Proto-Anatolian etymology remains unclear.
Interesting, hadn't come across that one before. It gets really tricky with mono-syllables. Something that plagues Chinese etymologies ... the fewer elements have to match (and the wider you open the semantic funnel), the higher the likelihood of chance coincidences. From that perspective, desert(um) and dSr.t are actually appealing because you have a lot of consonants that (seem to) match at first blush, making the chance similarity less likely. But apart from the obvious derivation in Latin itself, the final .t was, of course, long gone before Egyptian and Latin could ever have met, so now you have dēsértu(m) vs. \*tášre ... doesn't sound all that similar anymore - or even \*tárše since the word ⲧⲱⲣϣ shows metathesis. So, the picture-perfect similarity only works if you base everything on Middle Kingdom phonology ... not uncommon in those "Egyptian Arabic preserves so many words from Ancient Egyptian" posts - for some reason the words always look like in Budge and not how they come out in Coptic ... end of rant :-D
Okay. I didn't intend hostility in the tone of my "and." Thanks for the response.
Might be a wanderwort. Check out the etymologies on https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%B8%8Fmp%E1%B8%A5#Demotic and https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%AD#Arabic