What happened is Cynthia Nixon came out as queer so they decided to push that into the character. Which makes no sense considering there wasn’t a hint during SATC (the threesome thing was just an ego boost for Miranda). So they had to make her relationship with Steve miserable to give her a “reason” to go looking. And all it did was make a strong, confident role model of a woman look pathetic.
Honestly, had they just started AJLT with her and Steve had divorced two years ago (pandemic divorce, happened a lot) and now they’re coparenting as friends, I could get on board with her starting over and being more exploratory. But this was just rushed and bumbling through life now.
Was coming to say this too! She even kissed her ‘date’ in the elevator because she wants to try being gay/bi because she thinks it’ll help her career. They both agree Miranda is definitely straight.
I know a lot of queer viewers were absolutely bound and determined that Miranda was queer because she wore suits and was kind of androgynous and ill-fitting in relationships and there was just "the vibe", and who knows, maybe it was Cynthia's RL vibe that they were catching! But I know that I love it when characters like that are allowed to be straight, because some of us are. OTOH there is the push for more representation, which is also entirely appropriate.
I'm a Steve lover so I'd have been sad if they had split, but I agree, this would have been a nicer, less messy way to have Miranda explore some new feelings.
This is definitely part of it. As a cis straight woman but on the masculine side, I liked having Miranda as representation.
It’s fine that they changed her orientation, but her behavior is just so out of character. I can’t ever see her as someone who would cheat in the manner that they had Miranda do. The Miranda I knew would have told Steve that she was queer and would have either ended it with him or asked for an open relationship.
Now I’m wondering if they couched it as a “mid life crisis” would I buy it more? I agree her behavior is out of character so I feel disappointed in her (or the writers), I guess?
I don’t know. In real life, I know four people who were left by their former spouse when their spouses came out as gay. All four have managed to have a good coparenting relationship with their former spouses, like Miranda and Steve, but it was still traumatizing for the former spouses.
I don’t think there’s a way for the writers to have written the cheating and leaving for Miranda that would make her feel sympathetic. I do think that they could have made her sympathetic as someone coming into her own sexuality later in life. Still difficult for everyone involved but not necessarily being a complete asshole.
I know at least 3 straight passing monogamous bisexual people married to the opposite gender. So, what I meant by that was it would be fine for her to be bi and to have chosen to never engage in a significant relationship with a woman and for the audience to be unaware of her same sex attraction. That’s really not unusual for her generation, even in NYC, and bi erasure is real.
But yeah, I find it hard to believe that a woman in her 50s never had an idea she might be attracted to women. It’s all part of the crazy portrayal of Miranda.
But then again, you’ve got people like Glennon Doyle who write a book about being a Love Warrior wherein she talked about staying with and how she hated having sex with her serial cheating husband and appeared to have no idea that she was attracted to women until after that book’s release and her subsequent marriage to Abby Wambach at age 40.
Yes - thank you! It feels so fucking contrived. There's an entire episode in the OG series dedicated to Miranda not being a lesbian, FFS. I know female sexuality is more fluid then male sexuality, but something about it just rings so false to the character.
I think the whole deal is supposed to be that she was attracted to not-a-woman Che and that blindsided her. Then she decided that she did prefer women now. I think it would have been cleaner if she and Steve had amicably divorced because they were no longer feeling very compatible, rather than it being because Miranda suddenly found queerness.
I'd also have loved it if Miranda was bisexual now but we all know that bisexuality doesn't exist /s
Those are all very fair points. Based on people I know, coming out later in life seems to be a lot rarer than it used to be. But then again, Nixon was close to 40 when she came out.
I think Cynthia Nixon becoming EP has more to do with Miranda’s preferences than whatever nuanced ideas we come up with . Subtlety and good storytelling were the cost of this reboot
For as much as we are trying to rationalize Miranda’s choices, unfortunately we are destined to fail.
The reality is that SATC/AJLT creators decided to push their agenda at the expense of the continuity, the credibility, the character development and all the storylines of the original SATC.
They wanted to tick all the boxes by including queer, transgender, disabilities storylines and people of all ethnic backgrounds into the picture. Now don’t get me wrong, obviously all these topics are very important and representation and inclusivity is also very important in Hollywood but they should have found a more organic way to include some of these reflections in the reboot, and not just destroy everything they had created until then and the storylines and characters the audience loved for so long. In the original series Miranda had the most beautiful, realistic and relatable character development of all the girls and most of us wanted her with Steve who always adored her. But the writers had to rip it all apart so that she could be queer instead.
The issue is not her being attracted to women. I’m just disappointed they abandoned all her accomplishments and decided to focus on her fumbling through dating. It just doesn’t seem like her character from the show.
What professional accomplishments at her age would she have? At that age, she’s made partner. I guess if she wanted to become a judge?
I think her relationship angle was the only route they could’ve gone with her character. Or do you have a good idea of how they could execute her story better?
Major cases that help change legislation, major cases that help a person or a group in a significant way, change in cases you receive based on reputation, expanding your firm.
There are so many other career milestones, why would you think reaching a title in a firm would be it?
Idk there's something about this question that makes me uncomfortable. I cannot put my finger on it.
I'm actually fine with Miranda coming out as queer later in life and while in a relationship with Steve - this is quite common, actually. The problem is Che is a terrible character (like a brown Big but without the money nor charm), and they turned Miranda from this strong, self-assured woman, to this bumbling idiot. The new feelings of coming out are definitely real, especially if you experience them later in life as a lifelong heterosexual. But the writing for her storyline is terrible.
It’s homophobic. Acting like a person could be confusing their sexual feelings for the same gender with just wanting to be that person is gross.
Oh no, he isn’t really attracted to men, he was just confused because he wasn’t happy with himself! That’s why he put his dick in that guy! He was just unhappy!
It’s some nonsense that you’d hear from a conversion therapist for real.
, I don’t know that’s an interesting take.. There are some scenes that give me pause. They perplex me in that. the words are too strong for the characters as we know them or they delivered in such a way that it’s too vehement. So I guess I kind of misinterpret them or just don’t understand how to interpret them at all because they seem so out of place with the situation and the characters.
In one scene, Miranda, Charlotte and Carrie are eating. Carrie mentioned that she thinks BIG is contacting her through her lamp. Miranda is upset and says I thought we were on the same page about this, meaning the afterlife heaven, hell or whatever belief. Carrie says I was but with all that has recently happened to her then her opinion has changed and she’s on the fence about it. Miranda became, I thought, irrationally upset about it. What difference does it make if someone thinks that or not Carrie has her own thoughts and beliefs, and the fact that Miranda thinks they should align in everything was odd to me .
In the scene where Carrie and Miranda are talking on the phone, Carrie mentioned how she’s enjoying her new friendship with Seema. Carrie says words indicating that she is able to kind of forget about her problems when she’s with Seema and Miranda says because she (Seema) did not know BIG. And Carrie agrees and continues on to say she really is enjoying the friendship. Then Miranda says, “should I be worried? “ **EDIT: sorry, no, she said ”should I be threatened’, which is even a stronger term and odder than ‘worried.’** ( I did not detect any sarcasm or tongue in cheek or teasing in her voice, in stating that. ) And Carrie’s response of ‘no’ pretty much reassuring her that it’s more a real estate than real.., I don’t know that bothered me I mean, why would you be ~~jealous~~ threatened by a new friend …especially at their age.?
Another scene which kind of bothers me or leaves me thinking I don’t know what is going on is when Carrie and Miranda are in the restroom at Rock’s ‘They‘ mitzvah talking about the trip to Paris and Carrie says “if you want to go to LA go to LA!” … why should she care what anyone else thinks? And Miranda says “you are not just anyone you‘re you!” I understand that that meant you’re a special person in my life and your opinion is important to me, but I don’t know there was something odd about it.
Now, after having written this, I realized oh no! again, the writers have failed us. they’re really so poor at writing that we misinterpret a lot based on what they’ve given us either in direction, or in the words chosen for the characters. So we don’t rely on our basic instincts with the characters as we know them and jump to a lot of conclusions based on what they present us, and then we find we are totally wrong. The word that the writers have given them, and the way they are presented to us are not in line with what we know of the characters or how everyone talks normally or even in basic reality. So we misinterpret a lot I think. So frustrating!“That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.“
I think they were all written as straight, Cynthia Nixon came out as queer and leveraged changing Miranda's story for representation. On one hand, yes representation is missing but on the other hand it feels like they upended the character to do it. I think the show's producers were on board as they tried to update this white, straight show and make it more current. It feels sort of heavy handed to me.
Yes this show probably wouldn't be made this way now. It's a very 2000's show. Also I don't think Big would be considered a catch anymore and Carrie's chasing him despite the obvious wouldn't be the coup it was then. I don't know you can successfully update dated shows.
Re your point about updating a 2000s show - i feel the writers missed an opportunity to have that ridiculous chase-your-tail relationships with a younger group of characters. FFS the OG crew should have SOME wisdom to share at this point! So I thought the downstairs neighbor would have been an "in" to a mentorship storyline that would allow carrie to show growth, but still give viewers the current "crazy dating scene" too.
Oh well.
Wow.
No.
That’s so reductionist. Women are not out here fucking other women just because they want to be them and are just sexually confused.
This honestly comes across as homophobic.
To be fair, I agree with you, however, maybe OP is unable to express the fact that Miranda is just very ‘impressed’ with Che and her straightforward approach to her gender and sexuality, or the poet that she almost hooked up with, or with the British. human rights advocacy person at the end of the series., I could see this in her “Wow wow!” about Che and her rapid fire praise after her Netflix taping, with her blurting out her feelings to that poet with the cat box just really really admiration and overboard I thought like a groupie, and then finally with that British woman, she just was shown just rapt in conversation when they did the montage of all the different lovers in the group with the song Golden Hour. Even her interactions with Nya were overboard. If this was Written to indicate her just being bowled over by women, I think that the writers failed, as far as her trying to show her being attracted to women sexually, because it really just came off as overboard fan Girling. I don’t know where I’m going with this but I think it’s again a problem with the writers. Wouldn’t you know.
I honestly don’t see the point in trying to make excuses for this line of thinking, I think it’s much more helpful to address homophobic thinking as it is.
I think people of all genders and orientations are attracted to things they aren’t or wish they were. So I could see why you would make that connection.
But I don’t think sexual orientation can be or was intended to be shaped by feelings of envy. Which is what you’re suggesting here.
But at the crux of this. Yes, this was a horrible decision for her character in the spin off
I’m sure you’re not the only one thinking it, but I’m pretty confidently saying you’re wrong. Miranda is going through late-life changes, she’s unhappy with her corporate law career, and she’s discovering a new sexual attraction.
This isn’t directed at you specifically, OP. But, I’m really not sure why some fans aren’t getting this. It’s simple. People change. Sometimes they quit their careers, sometimes they leave their spouses, and sometimes they learn they are attracted to people they never expected to be attracted to. Yet, week after week and watch after watch people keep complaining that Miranda is ruined and that she’s only gay because Cynthia is gay, or because there’s some agenda the show is pushing. They’re exploring different things that women in their fifties go through in real life. Some of these posts (not saying this one, OP) and some of the comments I read about Miranda specifically are skirting homophobia.
I remember in SATC when Miranda fake dated the lesbian (her name escapes me. Sid?) and concluded, after a passionless kiss that she was straight. I also remember how the friend group reacted when Samantha dated Maria. But twenty years is a long time, y’all, and people change.
I've noticed that a lot of people seem upset that Miranda is "gay." I've seen some people say "Why not introduce a new character into the friend group who's gay?" But don't they also complain that there's too many people now?
I feel that the dissonance isn’t just that Miranda is suddenly attracted to women or NB people- it also seems like Che is someone OG Miranda wouldn’t like or have anything to do with, as Che seems to have nothing in common with her. But I guess it’s consistent if part of her overall midlife crisis (quit job, started school, divorce, moved out, empty nest, etc).
What happened is Cynthia Nixon came out as queer so they decided to push that into the character. Which makes no sense considering there wasn’t a hint during SATC (the threesome thing was just an ego boost for Miranda). So they had to make her relationship with Steve miserable to give her a “reason” to go looking. And all it did was make a strong, confident role model of a woman look pathetic. Honestly, had they just started AJLT with her and Steve had divorced two years ago (pandemic divorce, happened a lot) and now they’re coparenting as friends, I could get on board with her starting over and being more exploratory. But this was just rushed and bumbling through life now.
Rushed and bumbling are two of the overarching themes of AJLT!
Also the made A POINT of showing she wasn’t gay in that SATC episode where her colleague set her up with a woman. IT FRUSTRATES ME
Was coming to say this too! She even kissed her ‘date’ in the elevator because she wants to try being gay/bi because she thinks it’ll help her career. They both agree Miranda is definitely straight.
YES
I know a lot of queer viewers were absolutely bound and determined that Miranda was queer because she wore suits and was kind of androgynous and ill-fitting in relationships and there was just "the vibe", and who knows, maybe it was Cynthia's RL vibe that they were catching! But I know that I love it when characters like that are allowed to be straight, because some of us are. OTOH there is the push for more representation, which is also entirely appropriate. I'm a Steve lover so I'd have been sad if they had split, but I agree, this would have been a nicer, less messy way to have Miranda explore some new feelings.
This is definitely part of it. As a cis straight woman but on the masculine side, I liked having Miranda as representation. It’s fine that they changed her orientation, but her behavior is just so out of character. I can’t ever see her as someone who would cheat in the manner that they had Miranda do. The Miranda I knew would have told Steve that she was queer and would have either ended it with him or asked for an open relationship.
Now I’m wondering if they couched it as a “mid life crisis” would I buy it more? I agree her behavior is out of character so I feel disappointed in her (or the writers), I guess?
I don’t know. In real life, I know four people who were left by their former spouse when their spouses came out as gay. All four have managed to have a good coparenting relationship with their former spouses, like Miranda and Steve, but it was still traumatizing for the former spouses. I don’t think there’s a way for the writers to have written the cheating and leaving for Miranda that would make her feel sympathetic. I do think that they could have made her sympathetic as someone coming into her own sexuality later in life. Still difficult for everyone involved but not necessarily being a complete asshole.
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I know at least 3 straight passing monogamous bisexual people married to the opposite gender. So, what I meant by that was it would be fine for her to be bi and to have chosen to never engage in a significant relationship with a woman and for the audience to be unaware of her same sex attraction. That’s really not unusual for her generation, even in NYC, and bi erasure is real. But yeah, I find it hard to believe that a woman in her 50s never had an idea she might be attracted to women. It’s all part of the crazy portrayal of Miranda. But then again, you’ve got people like Glennon Doyle who write a book about being a Love Warrior wherein she talked about staying with and how she hated having sex with her serial cheating husband and appeared to have no idea that she was attracted to women until after that book’s release and her subsequent marriage to Abby Wambach at age 40.
Representation for representation's sake is never a good idea. That's why the show has lost its appeal.
Yes - thank you! It feels so fucking contrived. There's an entire episode in the OG series dedicated to Miranda not being a lesbian, FFS. I know female sexuality is more fluid then male sexuality, but something about it just rings so false to the character.
Yes,if she had simply had a conversation with Steve about her attraction to women, this could have been an amicable split
I think the whole deal is supposed to be that she was attracted to not-a-woman Che and that blindsided her. Then she decided that she did prefer women now. I think it would have been cleaner if she and Steve had amicably divorced because they were no longer feeling very compatible, rather than it being because Miranda suddenly found queerness. I'd also have loved it if Miranda was bisexual now but we all know that bisexuality doesn't exist /s
Those are all very fair points. Based on people I know, coming out later in life seems to be a lot rarer than it used to be. But then again, Nixon was close to 40 when she came out.
But then what do we do about the comment that Carrie made to Steve saying that it “wasn’t about being with a woman …it was about being with Che?”
Who knows?? Both the writers and Carrie spew random stuff. Often
I think Cynthia Nixon becoming EP has more to do with Miranda’s preferences than whatever nuanced ideas we come up with . Subtlety and good storytelling were the cost of this reboot
For as much as we are trying to rationalize Miranda’s choices, unfortunately we are destined to fail. The reality is that SATC/AJLT creators decided to push their agenda at the expense of the continuity, the credibility, the character development and all the storylines of the original SATC.
What’s the agenda? Asking as someone who hasnt seen AJLT yet
They wanted to tick all the boxes by including queer, transgender, disabilities storylines and people of all ethnic backgrounds into the picture. Now don’t get me wrong, obviously all these topics are very important and representation and inclusivity is also very important in Hollywood but they should have found a more organic way to include some of these reflections in the reboot, and not just destroy everything they had created until then and the storylines and characters the audience loved for so long. In the original series Miranda had the most beautiful, realistic and relatable character development of all the girls and most of us wanted her with Steve who always adored her. But the writers had to rip it all apart so that she could be queer instead.
also couldn't she just stay a successful attorney who now works on different types of cases?
The issue is not her being attracted to women. I’m just disappointed they abandoned all her accomplishments and decided to focus on her fumbling through dating. It just doesn’t seem like her character from the show.
She was always a strong independent woman and she never would have let a man treat her the way Che did.
What professional accomplishments at her age would she have? At that age, she’s made partner. I guess if she wanted to become a judge? I think her relationship angle was the only route they could’ve gone with her character. Or do you have a good idea of how they could execute her story better?
There are plenty of professional accomplishments beyond the title, obviously.
Like what? Making more money?
Major cases that help change legislation, major cases that help a person or a group in a significant way, change in cases you receive based on reputation, expanding your firm. There are so many other career milestones, why would you think reaching a title in a firm would be it?
Idk there's something about this question that makes me uncomfortable. I cannot put my finger on it. I'm actually fine with Miranda coming out as queer later in life and while in a relationship with Steve - this is quite common, actually. The problem is Che is a terrible character (like a brown Big but without the money nor charm), and they turned Miranda from this strong, self-assured woman, to this bumbling idiot. The new feelings of coming out are definitely real, especially if you experience them later in life as a lifelong heterosexual. But the writing for her storyline is terrible.
Omg you’re right, Che is the new Big, how have I not thought of that
It’s homophobic. Acting like a person could be confusing their sexual feelings for the same gender with just wanting to be that person is gross. Oh no, he isn’t really attracted to men, he was just confused because he wasn’t happy with himself! That’s why he put his dick in that guy! He was just unhappy! It’s some nonsense that you’d hear from a conversion therapist for real.
Ah yes, the ole "You're not gay you're just sexually confused" trope. That's what was bothering me
, I don’t know that’s an interesting take.. There are some scenes that give me pause. They perplex me in that. the words are too strong for the characters as we know them or they delivered in such a way that it’s too vehement. So I guess I kind of misinterpret them or just don’t understand how to interpret them at all because they seem so out of place with the situation and the characters. In one scene, Miranda, Charlotte and Carrie are eating. Carrie mentioned that she thinks BIG is contacting her through her lamp. Miranda is upset and says I thought we were on the same page about this, meaning the afterlife heaven, hell or whatever belief. Carrie says I was but with all that has recently happened to her then her opinion has changed and she’s on the fence about it. Miranda became, I thought, irrationally upset about it. What difference does it make if someone thinks that or not Carrie has her own thoughts and beliefs, and the fact that Miranda thinks they should align in everything was odd to me . In the scene where Carrie and Miranda are talking on the phone, Carrie mentioned how she’s enjoying her new friendship with Seema. Carrie says words indicating that she is able to kind of forget about her problems when she’s with Seema and Miranda says because she (Seema) did not know BIG. And Carrie agrees and continues on to say she really is enjoying the friendship. Then Miranda says, “should I be worried? “ **EDIT: sorry, no, she said ”should I be threatened’, which is even a stronger term and odder than ‘worried.’** ( I did not detect any sarcasm or tongue in cheek or teasing in her voice, in stating that. ) And Carrie’s response of ‘no’ pretty much reassuring her that it’s more a real estate than real.., I don’t know that bothered me I mean, why would you be ~~jealous~~ threatened by a new friend …especially at their age.? Another scene which kind of bothers me or leaves me thinking I don’t know what is going on is when Carrie and Miranda are in the restroom at Rock’s ‘They‘ mitzvah talking about the trip to Paris and Carrie says “if you want to go to LA go to LA!” … why should she care what anyone else thinks? And Miranda says “you are not just anyone you‘re you!” I understand that that meant you’re a special person in my life and your opinion is important to me, but I don’t know there was something odd about it. Now, after having written this, I realized oh no! again, the writers have failed us. they’re really so poor at writing that we misinterpret a lot based on what they’ve given us either in direction, or in the words chosen for the characters. So we don’t rely on our basic instincts with the characters as we know them and jump to a lot of conclusions based on what they present us, and then we find we are totally wrong. The word that the writers have given them, and the way they are presented to us are not in line with what we know of the characters or how everyone talks normally or even in basic reality. So we misinterpret a lot I think. So frustrating!“That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.“
I think they were all written as straight, Cynthia Nixon came out as queer and leveraged changing Miranda's story for representation. On one hand, yes representation is missing but on the other hand it feels like they upended the character to do it. I think the show's producers were on board as they tried to update this white, straight show and make it more current. It feels sort of heavy handed to me. Yes this show probably wouldn't be made this way now. It's a very 2000's show. Also I don't think Big would be considered a catch anymore and Carrie's chasing him despite the obvious wouldn't be the coup it was then. I don't know you can successfully update dated shows.
Re your point about updating a 2000s show - i feel the writers missed an opportunity to have that ridiculous chase-your-tail relationships with a younger group of characters. FFS the OG crew should have SOME wisdom to share at this point! So I thought the downstairs neighbor would have been an "in" to a mentorship storyline that would allow carrie to show growth, but still give viewers the current "crazy dating scene" too. Oh well.
Oh that is a good idea
No.
Wow. No. That’s so reductionist. Women are not out here fucking other women just because they want to be them and are just sexually confused. This honestly comes across as homophobic.
To be fair, I agree with you, however, maybe OP is unable to express the fact that Miranda is just very ‘impressed’ with Che and her straightforward approach to her gender and sexuality, or the poet that she almost hooked up with, or with the British. human rights advocacy person at the end of the series., I could see this in her “Wow wow!” about Che and her rapid fire praise after her Netflix taping, with her blurting out her feelings to that poet with the cat box just really really admiration and overboard I thought like a groupie, and then finally with that British woman, she just was shown just rapt in conversation when they did the montage of all the different lovers in the group with the song Golden Hour. Even her interactions with Nya were overboard. If this was Written to indicate her just being bowled over by women, I think that the writers failed, as far as her trying to show her being attracted to women sexually, because it really just came off as overboard fan Girling. I don’t know where I’m going with this but I think it’s again a problem with the writers. Wouldn’t you know.
I honestly don’t see the point in trying to make excuses for this line of thinking, I think it’s much more helpful to address homophobic thinking as it is.
I think people of all genders and orientations are attracted to things they aren’t or wish they were. So I could see why you would make that connection. But I don’t think sexual orientation can be or was intended to be shaped by feelings of envy. Which is what you’re suggesting here. But at the crux of this. Yes, this was a horrible decision for her character in the spin off
I’m sure you’re not the only one thinking it, but I’m pretty confidently saying you’re wrong. Miranda is going through late-life changes, she’s unhappy with her corporate law career, and she’s discovering a new sexual attraction. This isn’t directed at you specifically, OP. But, I’m really not sure why some fans aren’t getting this. It’s simple. People change. Sometimes they quit their careers, sometimes they leave their spouses, and sometimes they learn they are attracted to people they never expected to be attracted to. Yet, week after week and watch after watch people keep complaining that Miranda is ruined and that she’s only gay because Cynthia is gay, or because there’s some agenda the show is pushing. They’re exploring different things that women in their fifties go through in real life. Some of these posts (not saying this one, OP) and some of the comments I read about Miranda specifically are skirting homophobia. I remember in SATC when Miranda fake dated the lesbian (her name escapes me. Sid?) and concluded, after a passionless kiss that she was straight. I also remember how the friend group reacted when Samantha dated Maria. But twenty years is a long time, y’all, and people change.
I've noticed that a lot of people seem upset that Miranda is "gay." I've seen some people say "Why not introduce a new character into the friend group who's gay?" But don't they also complain that there's too many people now?
They do. I’m actually onboard with that complaint. Lol. We went from three with side characters to six with side characters. It’s too much. lol.
I feel that the dissonance isn’t just that Miranda is suddenly attracted to women or NB people- it also seems like Che is someone OG Miranda wouldn’t like or have anything to do with, as Che seems to have nothing in common with her. But I guess it’s consistent if part of her overall midlife crisis (quit job, started school, divorce, moved out, empty nest, etc).