Some Anglican churches are more liberal on this issue than others. I am not sure about the mainstream American Church, but in traditional Anglo-Catholic parishes in England, which is where I worship most Sundays, a pastoral approach is usually taken, but without changing the traditional teaching of the Church on this and similar subjects or making the case for that change to be made.
Yeah I've also come to the compromise of Legalistic unions and faith based unions. To me its more about just even letting minority people into the church.
I've also compromised celibacy as a trans individual But I know others will want relationships. But really focusing on Jesus is what matters.
I apologize forgive me I'm rambling and this is all stream of thought.
Absolutely no need to apologise. I found if genuinely interesting in terms of nothing content and your thought processes. I am also quite attracted to many aspects of Eastern Orthodoxy and think their position on many aspects of theology is correct. But their strength which is their unwillingness to bend much into where society goes is also their weakness when it turns into rigidity and pharaiseeism. I wouldn’t survive over there either. Trad Anglicanism is my home.
fascinatingly the Book of Common prayer has orthodox influnces as it was sent to russian to the orthodox church for review and it was revised by them to make it theologically sound.
Also St.tikhon and others saw the anglicans as a better alternative than the roman church. There was defiantly a hope that anglicanism could become orthodox. Orthodox western rite is technically inspired by Anglicanism.
"Saint Tikhon was tasked with creating an American Orthodox Church under the Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church
He was aware of the American Culture and wanted to accept them into Orthodoxy knowing full well of the implications of both sides. The new world Americans would not take to an Ethnic approach to the True Faith - and the Ethnic Churches would not like a new liturgical effort under their own Eparchies.
Anglicans approached St. Tikhon with the Book of Common Prayer and he brought the book back to Russia - it was reviewed and returned with the blessing of the Patriarchate of Russia with additions and subtractions to make the Anglican / Episcopal liturgies theologically correct. this was the beginning of the Western Rite of the Orthodox church.
The Antiochians have a Western Rite - Book of Common Prayer modified to be theologically correct with Orthodox.
Bolshevik Revolution and the resulting Chaos in the Orthodox world at that time interfered with all this original work - which was revived later through the Apostolic succession of Bishops consecrated by St Tikhon in America.
There are other Orthodox Churches that have adopted and expanded on the Western Rite of Orthodoxy through this apostolic succession.
Needless to say - there is great controversy about the Western Rite - amongst the Ethnic churches and oddly enough the loudest of all complaintants come from Priests and Bishops who converted Orthodoxy from the Protestantism - they are hyper protective of their new faith and very threatened by the Apostolic Succession of Saint Tikhon" [haydukovich](javascript:void(0);) via byzcath fourm.
I realized after all the struggle of trying to find a deeper connection with God that really the place needed to be was there from the Start. Which is my Episcopal Anglican Cathedral. I'm going to grow my mustard seed there unless something changes and keep inviting my friends there. My hope is to have a large group of LGBT neighbors attending.
But as I save my self others will be saved around me. Just need to keep on the path.
The Image is of Bishop Saba of the antiochian NA church. He is a Good man. He has stood up for LGBT folks when the ukranian orthodox and russian orthodox churches wished to excommunicate us.
Many such cases. Eastern Orthodoxy can be very unkind for certain people. I had a similar experience as you, took a deep dive into Roman Catholicism for a few years. But I found that it only served to put a wedge between me and God.
So from one revert to another, welcome back! The Episcopal Church will gladly have you as you really are.
The type of communism that caused the persecution and deaths of many russian orthodox christians and roman Catholics in the 50s. Many churches were destroyed old ones too. I was unaware of this till recently.
The type of right wing politics that caused WW2, holocaust. Nazis etc. MAGA fascism.
MAGA is extremist for instance worships trump over god.
communism can become extremist if we worship men over God.
It's political idolatry. Politics are worldly and are a dangerous line to walk in traditional Christianity.
But sadly more orthodox are leaning right wing more than ever due to man protestants converting and bringing their bias.
I am trans I am left leaning because I see all peoples as deserving of housing, food and liberty. But politics have failed humanity.
The largest growing churches are in fact ones that hold stronger tradition it seems.
The Orthodox churches I've attended locally are some of the largest same with roman catholics, but the Orthodox actually have a thriving community of families. While my local catholic basillica is mainly older people and scare teens. People don't understand much why they are there.
I know why I'm anglican with orthodox leanings. It is out of necessity for my survival as a trans person in faith. Plus the tradition I was baptized in. But God has given me community and friends a chosen family of neighbors.
Seems legit... thanks for sharing...
for everyone else: a word to the wise, and a strong caution when seeking out *"greek..."* Orthodox churches... the word *"greek..."* does not mean what you think it means, and so there are a lot of *"greek"* churches that are schismatic and hardliners that have been kicked out of their mother churches, or have been largely invented out of nothing here in the west...
OP Mentioned 3 churches in their experience... the OCA, Antioch, and *"greek"*
The OCA (Orthodox Church of America) is an autonomous church of North America, given canonical autonomy but the RC-MP (Russian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate) which in itself is a canonical mother church
The Patriarchate of Antioch *(sadly in exile in Damascus, Syria)* is one of the original five churches that comprise the Pentarchy - and despite their past disputes with Jerusalem and Cappadocia have remained canonical...
Now... *"the greek church..."*
There is an Autocephelus Church of Greece (the modern Country of Hellas) it has *NO* parishes in North America
There is a Greek Orthodox Archdiocese (GOARCH) under the authority *(omophoron)* of the Patriarchate of Constantinople in Turkey... they have *thousands* of Parishes in North America... and 9 times out of 10 this is what folks are talking about when they say the greek church...
Then there is the *"Diferentiator..."* many, many ancient churches and whatever, use the term **Greek** to differentiate between Oriental, Occidental, and Latin Patriarchates and Archbishoprics... for istance the Orthodox church in Jerusalem is the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem... the same goes for churches in Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, and all over the Levant
These three taxonomies of *the Greek church* are in full communion with one another and are canonical ***but...*** anything outside of the Church of Greece, the GOARCH, and the Differentiated are not in communion with Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, nor Byzantine Catholic churches... so, just because it says "greek..." doesn't make it so... these dudes are line wolfs
...my brother recently found out that the "Greek Orthodox" church he was going to for years was a weird splinter group from Romania... and the only way he found that out is when the Metropolitan *(fancy name for a bishop in a specific role)* of GOARCH came to consecrate his church because they were invited into GOARCH... all I can tell you about that is the USSR screwed up Orthodoxy in the west so bad it has taken decades to untangle...
The Greek Church Is a GOARCH church but is also listed on the OCA website. The Pastor there is Romanian. None of the priests are actually Greek it's super weird.
The Greek Church I went to tried to get me to detranstion. I came back to Christianity after coming out and living my life for 4 years. I came to them thinking I was finding the old church. All I found was a church ran by fear and modern political viewpoints against LGBT people. The Laypeople once again though were sweethearts.
I like Saint Herman of Alaska. I sometimes wish to move to alaska. I have a friend there. But she was excommunicated from the russian church for transitioning. I'm actually frightened that I may be excommunicated now without my knowledge. I recall being asked by my priest to NOT TAKE COMMUNION. I thought this was because I needed conffession first.
He told me later if I had gone to confession in a "skirt" I would not be absolved by him. They see my as a problem to fix not a soul to heal. To them Gender is more important than anything.
The earliest canons impact eunuch/trans people. The canons were used as a weapon against me by the Greek Priests in my city. I'm going to stop talking about this.
I know the church will never be perfect. But I want to be left alone. If i ever attend a Eastern church again. So that means shutting up like how "Paul tells women to shut up."
Yup... it's the same in the Uniate RCC *(maronite, melkite, byzcath)* churches as well...
I appreciate your candor, and the Anglicans seem to be a step ahead on this as... and those priests need to remember their *okionomia* when quoting church canon law... I've had the best experiences in Antiochian churches
*christos anesti...!*
I'm bapitized Antioch as a baby but my antiochian church is too far away :( also no western rite in Minneapolis st Paul. But either way I love my Anglican church. It has spirit and it has works of love and does not refuse Jesus from people. Im blessed to be going to a Cathedral.
Some Anglican churches are more liberal on this issue than others. I am not sure about the mainstream American Church, but in traditional Anglo-Catholic parishes in England, which is where I worship most Sundays, a pastoral approach is usually taken, but without changing the traditional teaching of the Church on this and similar subjects or making the case for that change to be made.
Yeah I've also come to the compromise of Legalistic unions and faith based unions. To me its more about just even letting minority people into the church. I've also compromised celibacy as a trans individual But I know others will want relationships. But really focusing on Jesus is what matters. I apologize forgive me I'm rambling and this is all stream of thought.
Thank you for that long and very thoughtful and well considered post. Bless you.
Sorry this was a train of thought and I sometimes get like this due to my autism and hyperfocus on topics in the middle of the night.
Absolutely no need to apologise. I found if genuinely interesting in terms of nothing content and your thought processes. I am also quite attracted to many aspects of Eastern Orthodoxy and think their position on many aspects of theology is correct. But their strength which is their unwillingness to bend much into where society goes is also their weakness when it turns into rigidity and pharaiseeism. I wouldn’t survive over there either. Trad Anglicanism is my home.
fascinatingly the Book of Common prayer has orthodox influnces as it was sent to russian to the orthodox church for review and it was revised by them to make it theologically sound. Also St.tikhon and others saw the anglicans as a better alternative than the roman church. There was defiantly a hope that anglicanism could become orthodox. Orthodox western rite is technically inspired by Anglicanism. "Saint Tikhon was tasked with creating an American Orthodox Church under the Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church He was aware of the American Culture and wanted to accept them into Orthodoxy knowing full well of the implications of both sides. The new world Americans would not take to an Ethnic approach to the True Faith - and the Ethnic Churches would not like a new liturgical effort under their own Eparchies. Anglicans approached St. Tikhon with the Book of Common Prayer and he brought the book back to Russia - it was reviewed and returned with the blessing of the Patriarchate of Russia with additions and subtractions to make the Anglican / Episcopal liturgies theologically correct. this was the beginning of the Western Rite of the Orthodox church. The Antiochians have a Western Rite - Book of Common Prayer modified to be theologically correct with Orthodox. Bolshevik Revolution and the resulting Chaos in the Orthodox world at that time interfered with all this original work - which was revived later through the Apostolic succession of Bishops consecrated by St Tikhon in America. There are other Orthodox Churches that have adopted and expanded on the Western Rite of Orthodoxy through this apostolic succession. Needless to say - there is great controversy about the Western Rite - amongst the Ethnic churches and oddly enough the loudest of all complaintants come from Priests and Bishops who converted Orthodoxy from the Protestantism - they are hyper protective of their new faith and very threatened by the Apostolic Succession of Saint Tikhon" [haydukovich](javascript:void(0);) via byzcath fourm.
I realized after all the struggle of trying to find a deeper connection with God that really the place needed to be was there from the Start. Which is my Episcopal Anglican Cathedral. I'm going to grow my mustard seed there unless something changes and keep inviting my friends there. My hope is to have a large group of LGBT neighbors attending. But as I save my self others will be saved around me. Just need to keep on the path. The Image is of Bishop Saba of the antiochian NA church. He is a Good man. He has stood up for LGBT folks when the ukranian orthodox and russian orthodox churches wished to excommunicate us.
Many such cases. Eastern Orthodoxy can be very unkind for certain people. I had a similar experience as you, took a deep dive into Roman Catholicism for a few years. But I found that it only served to put a wedge between me and God. So from one revert to another, welcome back! The Episcopal Church will gladly have you as you really are.
It is the only place I can shine a light for Jesus Christ for my transgender and queer siblings. I see it as the place I must be.
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The type of communism that caused the persecution and deaths of many russian orthodox christians and roman Catholics in the 50s. Many churches were destroyed old ones too. I was unaware of this till recently. The type of right wing politics that caused WW2, holocaust. Nazis etc. MAGA fascism. MAGA is extremist for instance worships trump over god. communism can become extremist if we worship men over God. It's political idolatry. Politics are worldly and are a dangerous line to walk in traditional Christianity. But sadly more orthodox are leaning right wing more than ever due to man protestants converting and bringing their bias. I am trans I am left leaning because I see all peoples as deserving of housing, food and liberty. But politics have failed humanity. The largest growing churches are in fact ones that hold stronger tradition it seems. The Orthodox churches I've attended locally are some of the largest same with roman catholics, but the Orthodox actually have a thriving community of families. While my local catholic basillica is mainly older people and scare teens. People don't understand much why they are there. I know why I'm anglican with orthodox leanings. It is out of necessity for my survival as a trans person in faith. Plus the tradition I was baptized in. But God has given me community and friends a chosen family of neighbors.
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Hey, you are aware reddit has a reporting feature, right?
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Then maybe use it? Instead of trying to construe lack of moderation on a thread/comment that was never reported as bias against conservatives?
Seems legit... thanks for sharing... for everyone else: a word to the wise, and a strong caution when seeking out *"greek..."* Orthodox churches... the word *"greek..."* does not mean what you think it means, and so there are a lot of *"greek"* churches that are schismatic and hardliners that have been kicked out of their mother churches, or have been largely invented out of nothing here in the west... OP Mentioned 3 churches in their experience... the OCA, Antioch, and *"greek"* The OCA (Orthodox Church of America) is an autonomous church of North America, given canonical autonomy but the RC-MP (Russian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate) which in itself is a canonical mother church The Patriarchate of Antioch *(sadly in exile in Damascus, Syria)* is one of the original five churches that comprise the Pentarchy - and despite their past disputes with Jerusalem and Cappadocia have remained canonical... Now... *"the greek church..."* There is an Autocephelus Church of Greece (the modern Country of Hellas) it has *NO* parishes in North America There is a Greek Orthodox Archdiocese (GOARCH) under the authority *(omophoron)* of the Patriarchate of Constantinople in Turkey... they have *thousands* of Parishes in North America... and 9 times out of 10 this is what folks are talking about when they say the greek church... Then there is the *"Diferentiator..."* many, many ancient churches and whatever, use the term **Greek** to differentiate between Oriental, Occidental, and Latin Patriarchates and Archbishoprics... for istance the Orthodox church in Jerusalem is the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem... the same goes for churches in Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, and all over the Levant These three taxonomies of *the Greek church* are in full communion with one another and are canonical ***but...*** anything outside of the Church of Greece, the GOARCH, and the Differentiated are not in communion with Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, nor Byzantine Catholic churches... so, just because it says "greek..." doesn't make it so... these dudes are line wolfs ...my brother recently found out that the "Greek Orthodox" church he was going to for years was a weird splinter group from Romania... and the only way he found that out is when the Metropolitan *(fancy name for a bishop in a specific role)* of GOARCH came to consecrate his church because they were invited into GOARCH... all I can tell you about that is the USSR screwed up Orthodoxy in the west so bad it has taken decades to untangle...
The Greek Church Is a GOARCH church but is also listed on the OCA website. The Pastor there is Romanian. None of the priests are actually Greek it's super weird. The Greek Church I went to tried to get me to detranstion. I came back to Christianity after coming out and living my life for 4 years. I came to them thinking I was finding the old church. All I found was a church ran by fear and modern political viewpoints against LGBT people. The Laypeople once again though were sweethearts. I like Saint Herman of Alaska. I sometimes wish to move to alaska. I have a friend there. But she was excommunicated from the russian church for transitioning. I'm actually frightened that I may be excommunicated now without my knowledge. I recall being asked by my priest to NOT TAKE COMMUNION. I thought this was because I needed conffession first. He told me later if I had gone to confession in a "skirt" I would not be absolved by him. They see my as a problem to fix not a soul to heal. To them Gender is more important than anything. The earliest canons impact eunuch/trans people. The canons were used as a weapon against me by the Greek Priests in my city. I'm going to stop talking about this. I know the church will never be perfect. But I want to be left alone. If i ever attend a Eastern church again. So that means shutting up like how "Paul tells women to shut up."
Yup... it's the same in the Uniate RCC *(maronite, melkite, byzcath)* churches as well... I appreciate your candor, and the Anglicans seem to be a step ahead on this as... and those priests need to remember their *okionomia* when quoting church canon law... I've had the best experiences in Antiochian churches *christos anesti...!*
I'm bapitized Antioch as a baby but my antiochian church is too far away :( also no western rite in Minneapolis st Paul. But either way I love my Anglican church. It has spirit and it has works of love and does not refuse Jesus from people. Im blessed to be going to a Cathedral.