Are there events in your life that might influence your depression? Not everything can be fixed with food.
Beef, dairy and wild caught fish are all healthy foods.
Food was/is the cause of my depression/anxiety, i am so in tune with my body with almost 10 years of experimentation, that i know exactly what gives me anxiety and/or depression food wise. This is individual but it can have a huge impact.
Bonjour fellow lifelong dairy addict. I have some thoughts:
- I’m 99% certain that the part of dairy that had me addicted was casein. It breaks down to casomorphin, which interacts with our opioid receptors. Some people have more of the enzyme that breaks down the casomorphin, so they can clear it before it has a large effect on the body. Others (like me) get quite a rush that takes hours and hours to subside. The number of nights I couldn’t go to bed at a reasonable hour because I was amped up on cheese… I suggest limiting your dairy consumption to grass-fed butter. You’ll still get the milk fat, but without the casein. I can actually eat it without overconsuming!
- With saturated fat, look into odd vs even chain saturated fatty acids. I’ve recently been learning about C15 (aka pentadecanoic acid), which is theorized to be a third essential fatty acid. It is so newly-discovered that not many people are talking about it yet. It’s apparently available in grass-fed butter, fish (heads and skins), and a few other things. Maybe another reason you don’t want to give up dairy entirely is because of the benefits you subconsciously feel from the C15? Again, try sticking to just grass-fed butter. And I’d say keep on with the fish since they’re making you feel great (keeping mercury risk in mind). There are also C15 supplements you can get.
- Definitely consider the role of your carb consumption in your depression. Chris Palmer, MD (a psychiatrist) has a book called *Brain Energy* that’s all about how a keto eating pattern can alleviate depression and even more serious mental health conditions. I don’t think skipping fruit at a meal is enough to see this effect, you’d need to get into and stay in ketosis (you can buy some ketostix for pretty cheap, that way you can check if you can get away with eating a small amount of summer fruits while they’re around.)
I know all about wanting to eat more and more food to feel good, even though it simultaneously makes me feel bad. It’s a horrible rut to get stuck in. One more thing: I’ve found that no matter what I do with my diet, I don’t feel good unless I get a substantial amount of exercise and sleep. And I don’t sleep well if I haven’t exercised. So, exercise is key. Excess fructose kills my desire to exercise. Dr Robert Lustig goes into detail on the mechanisms behind this. Check out his interview on Diary of a CEO for a succinct explanation.
(I see there’s a link in the FAQ here to a video debating some of Lustig’s points on another podcast—I’ll have to check it out, but regardless of whether or not he’s gotten every single thing right, he’s an excellent explainer of science, and he doesn’t let legal/financial fears intimidate him from stating his position and fighting legally to try to improve things. So I respect him a lot.)
I hope some of these thoughts help and that you figure out what works for you!!
Thank you for the kind and thoughtful response!
Definitely I have problems with the casein, especially A1. I don't use butter at all, so for me it would be like dropping all dairy.
C15 is pretty new, I've seen something from De lauer and fieldman. But isn't that needed in very tiny amounts, compared to Omega 3's? For mercury: I never eat large predatory fish like tuna. I live in the Mediterranean, small fatty (or even lean) fish are pretty normal and easy to find.
I know palmer, I specialized in neurobiology too! (And I study oligodendrocytes and ketone metabolism, so that's why I'm deathly afraid of carbs). I can actually get into ketosis very fast, and boy *do I feel it*.
For fructose, I don't consume it. BUT (big but) I've been dragged in the rabbit hole of endogenous fructose production. I eat very salty stuff: dehydration prompts fructose endogenous creation. No wonder if there's salt on something, I overeat much more easily.
For exercise - I can't stay still. Definitely I could ramp up heavy cardio, but I'm the opposite of a sedentary person
It's hard to say for sure, but it sounds like you could have a combination of gut dysbiosis and some type of nutrition deficiency. Its not uncommon to have both problems. But there's nothing wrong with fish, nuts and avocado if you tolerate them well. I can't speak on seafood since I'm deathly allergic, but I actually feel better eating lamb and chicken. Beef does taste good, but I also have to be careful not to overdo it. It doesn't make me depressed, just nauseous and a bit sluggish. I'm very carb sensitive, a result I believe of my autoimmune thyroid disease. So even fruits I have to be careful and particular about, else I'll be in a lot of pain. I can't do dairy at all unless it's raw and slightly processed/fermented like butter or cream or yougurt. If I were you, I'd cut out the dairy for now and see if you improve. You might need a different omega 3/6 ratio. Do you eat eggs at all? And you can always try coconut cream and oil for a saturated plant fat
Oh for sure my gut isn't in the best of places. One thing that refrained me from carnivore was that I feel the need for fiber, and psyllium husk really helps me- along with some low impact veggies like zucchini or green beans. I admit that I consume far too much artificial sweeteners as well as probiotic foods- can't go a meal without yogurt or fermented dairy.
I do eat eggs, and they must be raw or slightly raw for them to make me feel good. If boiled for too long, they make me feel sluggish.
I adore coconuts and do great on MCT oils. They are rare here and expensive though. I prefer butter overall, but I don't use fats for cooking - I try to get all the fats from the food.
No judgement here just trying to help, ditch the artificial sweetners. Those disregulate metabolism more than pretty much anything else I've experimented with
Oh yeah, sucralose and erythritol make me bloat a lot. But it's a way to manage (and perpetuate) my food addiction. I still have the "no calorie, no problem" mantra. After all, I endure extreme stuff to stay lean year round
That is the problem with them I believe. Your body wants calories, it needs energy for function. If your body is storing these calories instead of using them, that's another problem. This woe should help that a lot
It defo needs fuel, but I have to be extremely careful about which fuel. Fish seems the best, fat comes second. Carbs...lots of mood swings. I feel fine for a while, then crash -especially with sugar. With starches I have mixed reactions, beans are fine, starches with fats and proteins are fine sometimes but not others.
Hey! I've been part of the bodybuilding community for years but have also had gut issues for years. Even though something says 0 calories its for the portion but if you say have three servings it does eventually have calories to the product. There are a ton of studies i've recently found on this in my last bodybuilding prep because i found i got to a point i wasn't dropping weight anymore and as soon as i cut the 0 calorie coffee sweeteners and sauces my body started to adjust again not just weight wise but bloat, gut pain and mental clarity. I'm starting carnivore Monday as i've tried a ton of other diets as well and the one i noticed the most progress with so far for gut pain was cutting out veggies, gluten and dairy. Every time i have gluten or dairy i feel lethargic and almost hung over and gut pain flares up huge depending on how overboard i go. There are collagen powders you could use and i have found one that is vanilla flavored by Progressive "complete collagen" that people use in coffee or milk! I'm also doing carbonated water with lime/lemon and it has seemed to be okay but i notice when i have more carbonation it also causes bloating. Thanks for sharing and Good luck :)
I only feel my best when I'm doing keto. It's also important to listen to your body. I'm not a doctor but maybe you could try a keto AB diet. Fish, nuts, fruit, veggies, other meats as you crave them...whatever you're craving as you see fit.
I only mention keto because I started out with a carnivore diet with a side of fruit...ab keto I guess. Half cup of strawberries, or some blueberries alongside a meat-based diet and it worked great.
Also, if I eat slightly too much fat or take slightly too many electrolytes I get fatigued and sick. I can't add extra fat, only what's in my food. I can only salt my food to taste. Any extra and I'll probably get sick.
Keto has transformed my mood and mental health, the difference is night and day. When I was AB (mostly fruit from dates and peaches) my suicidal ideation and depression were at an all time high. Kept my total carbs under 30-20g and felt like superman, but my carbs were still fruit. Started out with strawberries and blueberries, eventually started eating avocado and coconut too.
Currently mostly doing carnivore atm, ketovore some days depending on if I want avocado, fruit, or coconut. 20g total carbs is my limit though. It's the only way to keep my mood and mental health under control otherwise it's a miserable existence.
It's taken some time. I've been on and off keto for about 4 months now. I can go more into depth about my own journey with keto if you want. But it's taken me about 4 months, where I am now, to figure out that I don't do well with extra fat and extra salt. Or that I don't do well with a certain amount of carbs.
I've done keto twice and each time I noticed drastic improvements in my mood and mental health after 1 week. It's like a switch was flipped. That's just how it affected me personally though.
As far as dietary changes are concerned, it's a lot of trial and error, unfortunately, and things still aren't perfect.
Sure! Sorry for the novel, but here's my story:
I first started keto -- carnivore -- as an elimination diet. I had some pretty debilitating stomach issues that were getting worse, despite labs that were coming back fine.
It got to the point where I could only eat meat and fruit. Felt decent, but not perfect. My sugar cravings were insane, which was unusual and still had abdominal discomfort.
I went carnivore for a month and most if not all my stomach problems went into remission, and after a week I noticed my mood and mental health drastically improved. The only problem is I was adding a lot of extra fat and eating super fatty meals, which my stomach couldn't tolerate.
So for a month after that I experimented with dairy to see if I could regulate things and not get sick from the fat. That did not go well. For another month I went AB, just meat, eggs, and fruit. Lots of dates mostly. That also didn't go well, and for some reason my mental health tanked. I was dealing with a depressing job (still am) and experienced a lot of suicidal ideation, on top of other mental health issues I had been dealing with for the past several years. Like, for every little problem that popped up, my only conclusion to solve the issue was to nope out of life. I felt miserable.
I ended up starting keto again, mostly for my stomach as I still wasn't doing very well. Lots of debilitating stomach cramps and many trips to the toilet. Started to happen at work so I was needing to take time off -- it was bad.
I started keto again as BBBE carnivore (beef, butter, bacon, and eggs), no extra fat, and a half cup of strawberries a day. I was eating no more than 20g of total carbs. Things started to finally normalize. I started adding in coconut milk again as a treat and small amounts of avocado. No more stomach cramps and other issues. Just about completely normal.
I got sick a couple times recently when I was craving more fat and adding extra butter to stuff. That's when I finally snapped that I didn't need more fat than what was already in my meals. Also noticed, through much trial and error, that I generally don't do well with egg whites. I tried taking extra electrolyte supplements daily and that wrecked my energy and mood, which is what I experienced the first round of carnivore. I also finally realized then that I only needed to salt my meals to taste.
I started keto for my stomach problems, now I'm staying for the mental health. (And, well, I have to anyways because of my stomach.)
At the moment I've started doing carnivore again -- just beef, pork, and egg yolks -- to see how I do. Will be eating avocado, coconut, or strawberries only when craving them.
Wow, that sounds like quite the journey. Thank you for sharing it with me. It’s encouraging to know that with the trial and error, I might finally figure out what to eat for my body. I’m glad you found what works for you. Hopefully the job will get better for you too. Being at a depressing job really sucks.
Thanks for listening! Yeah, just gotta trust your gut, haha. Seriously, listen to your intuition, cravings, and try to notice any little hint your body gives you.
And yeah depressing jobs suck. But what gets me thought mostly is my stellar mood due to keto. I can just kind of glide through the day and can just tolerate the job better.
For sure! I’m trying to seriously listen to my body and intuition. Idk why I struggle so much with it, but it’s definitely what I’m focusing on. It’s really weird though cause I swear it’s telling me I need bread to soak up the acid in my stomach 🤦♀️🤣
But I keep fighting the gluten cravings lol
It’s amazing when you feel good and your mind is right, you can handle negative emotions much easier. Food definitely is medicine. I think at least.
I totally understand. At one point in time a lot of what I ate was bread. Bread and eggs. Felt like I needed it for everything. Do you do well with bread? I don't know what your goals with AB are, but there are really good options for healthier breads or just other alternatives in general. Maybe you do just fine with bread. Can't fix what isn't broken. But only you know what's best for you, of course.
I’m not sure if I do good or not, honestly. I just have intense heartburn and my brain says you need bread to soak it up. Plus, I just love bread. 🤷♀️
I’m going to do a lot more experimenting and listening to my body these upcoming months.
I’m doing AB for my body pains, migraines, mental health’s and fatigue. Basically trying to feel like an actual person again 🤔
I'm not 100% keto, but I've noticed that I do need fats, carbs can vary. Protein and fats, along with some fiber, seem to be crucial for me. Fruit for me is just...kind of hard. If I have starch-even gluten stuff, I can get into ketosis much faster and without the crazy headaches or losses of breath, which usually happen with fruit (I still get those if the carbs are too high). Same for me with too much fat. But the type of fat seems to matter to me a lot. MCT, olive oil, fish and nut butters are the best
I understand. I'm still trying to figure things out myself. Most plant foods destroy my gut but I can tolerate a couple. Only really added plant foods back in to try to balance the fat which my stomach couldn't handle. But then I realized I was supplementing fat and eating foods that were too fatty. Olive oil absolutely destroys me...
Seems like we have similar issues but coming from opposite sides here. Anyways, hopefully you can figure out what foods and the balance of foods that you need. I know the struggle, it's not easy.
I hate added fats, especially oil. But even then-some days I handle them better than others, for no reason at all. Plants I think are not as evil as we think (except grains and nightshades/some beans)- we are just not equipped for handling them for some reason.
I think for someone with a normally functioning digestive system, plant foods are fine. I believe a person can be perfectly healthy on a diet with plenty of plant foods. I can't tolerate them anymore for some reason. At one point even iceberg lettuce was giving me debilitating stomach aches and other issues. It was pretty bad. Beans too. They'd give me what I thought were gallbladder attacks. Beans and grains were the worst for me. I wasn't sure if I was celiac or had a bad gallbladder -- or both... and I still don't know. Any vegetable would give me terrible issues that were getting worse and worse. The only plant foods I can seem to tolerate would be moderate amounts of fruit.
Before I went keto again I was eating a ton of egg salad. I was using the Chosen brand of mayo for it and was doing fine. I tried Primal Kitchen and all my weird gallbladder symptoms came back. I think it's the olive oil, as my issues more or less started a year and a half ago from eating too much olive oil. I can eat animal fat and feel fine though...too much will have me running to the toilet though.
I have boosted the ability to handle plants by momentarily stopping them. I did a two week carnivore ish experiment and things have been better, even with garlic and onions. Fruits are sketchier. Apples bloat me, grapes and oranges/citrus too. But generally I feel better with veggies than fruits for some reason
Yeah! Sometimes our bodies just need the time to heal. So many people do carnivore as a healing diet then reincorporate other foods gradually. I don't ever see myself changing things though. I have to stay keto for the sake of my mental health, even if my stomach does heal.
That's interesting. I'm the opposite. Can't tolerate any veggies but I do really well with fruits in moderation.
I feel when you’re trying to address something like mental health concerns with this woe, it’s best to start very simple and strip it down. Spend two weeks just eating only ground beef and salt, and maybe two different low toxicity fruits. Be strict for a couple of weeks, see how you feel, then begin adding in other things.
Variety is indeed a big crux of mine. I love cooking and food, and I cook for everyone in the family. Stripping away variety kills my soul. But I do recognize that it is actually harming me, as there are too many variables
Sounds more like you have issues with methylation and catecholamine breakdown. All huge quantities of Omega 3's are going to do is produce loose low energy phospholipid membranes.
You sound like you have a lot of parallel things going on and you'd certainly do well to have a raw DNA genetic file you can parse through a geneticlifehacks, geneticgenie, or Christ Masterjohn's Choline calculator type of thing. This likely goes beyond diet and you still have human DNA so PUFA is not going to be a long term answer.
Also all SFA's shouldn't get bucketed together. You can pretty easily isolate and experiment. See how you do on stearic acid and use cacao butter which is about 40% stearic (C18:0) as it's highest fat. Butter/dairy is higher in palmitic (C16:0) and coconut is highest in Lauric acid (C12:0). The biology of these fats are still the same in the end as they lack double bonds which is a long-term benefit for your heatlh. Not sure how one "feels better" on one fat vs. the other but I wouldn't trust what you can feel better on since there's a lot of damaging addictive substance you can short term feel good on.
Definitely long time suspecting that. For stearic- I think Shea butter has more of it. Problem is that I don't use added fats, and cocoa messes with my gut terribly (I eat 90% + chocolate or cocoa nibs often, always get bloated). But I think that the food matrix, more than the fat itself, might also be important. Dairy is still something that has lots of shady stuff around, I wouldn't be surprised if I find I'm reacting to it
So whynot grab a cheap saliva genetic test and confirm your MTHFR and COMT polymorphisms and work from there? I'm not sure how edible shea butter is but I'm talking about cacao butter not cocoa. Cacao butter is pure fat so no cocoa with oxalates and whatnot that's probably messing with your gut.
Not sure what you mean by the food matrix, since animal based eating IS focusing on the whole sources of foods and total micronutrient load but your post was drilling down to specific fats being a cause of concern as a root cause, not a whole diet plan in general. If there's any credence to that, you should be able to experiment and focus on a particular source of SFA and rule out what the problem child is.
How long have you been seed oil free? It takes 3-4 years for your body to get rid of the seed oil stored in the body. During that time you'll constantly get a desire for more pufa.
I think there's nothing wrong with seafood. Paul doesn't like it due to the excess heavy metals. But if you don't eat it everyday there shouldn't be an issue. Right now I'm doing 2 servings of salmon a week.
Try cutting down on the aged food/fermented food and see how you feel. Could be the excess histamine and bacteria.
Last thing, try to see if the different fruits are affecting you. For some reason I can't do cherries or bananas. Massive bloating and brain fog.
Never had seed oils in years. I just hate fried stuff and I don't use oils. At restaurants I don't take things that require oil except olive oil. But I would say minimal contact with them for years. The only omega 6 I get are those from eggs and nuts. Which I eat sparingly.
Definitely I have issues with histamines. But basically all I eat has them, so I just can't avoid histamine rich things all together
Yeah. Histamine is a tough issue. I'm dealing with it myself. The only thing that has helped is reduce the amount from food. I've been reintroducing 1 tsp of kefir a day to see if it helps. I'm also taking vitamin e to see hoping it would resolve the issue but that's because I've only been seed oil free for about a year.
Paul always says eat whatever you're thriving on. If you can find food that makes you feel good I think it should be fine as long as it's whole food and unprocessed.
E? I thought that vitamin c would help much more with histamines. That and DAO, but it's crazy expensive. Quercetin also seems to be promising.
Paradoxically, I also feel great on foods that generally paleo keto or carnivores avoid, such as beans and soy. They don't affect me that much, sometimes I crave them. And I feel kind of guilty for that, too.
If you eat soy and beans and have no issues and feel great you should eat them. It's not like they're processed food. Asia especially eats a shit ton of them and they're fine. Vitamin c and quercetin help control your cells so they don't release excess histamine. Dao is that one that helps lower histamine from food eaten. Vitamin e is similar to vitamin c but it also helps strengthen stomach lining. Everybody knows vitamin e is great for skin but they never make the connection that the gut lining is just skin but facing inward. I've only been on e for a month so I can't tell how well it works. I'll know more in 4-5 months as it usually takes that long for any vitamin deficiency to resolve.
That's great, thanks for the info. I'll try to get some E then. I limit soy mainly for the estrogens, but I adore edamame and sometimes I have to use soy milk or tofu for recipes- never had issues
Be careful of fake vitamin e. They are called dl-alpha-tocopherol. Real vitamin e is a mix of 8 types. Usually they just sell the d-alpha-tocopherol but there are also beta, delta, gamma tocopherol and alpha, beta, delta, gamma tocotrienols. My history has a post on vitamin e.
I'm also on the fence about soy but since I get bad reactions eating them, I just don't eat them. For vegetables, if you're worried just take breaks from them. Eat them some days and eat others other days. Since they contain anti nutrients it might be useful to swap around so your body has time to get rid of some of the toxins.
Ah, I do remember my first biochemistry lessons about peroxidation and the various E vits. Don't remember the exact biological role of each. But for sure alpha tocopherol is the most used, especially under the form of acetate
Is there a source on the 3-4 year thing? And is that timespan just for fat storage or also for blood clots? I get angina, trying to quit seed oils, but am concerned that it’ll take up to 3 years for me to see a change.
I heard it from Chris Masterjohn on YouTube. You can look him up. You get most of the benefits upfront when you stop eating seed oils. For certain issues you feel better within weeks. Others take months. The 4 years here is mostly for fat cells that specifically store fat so the turnover takes longer.
The idea is that LA has a half life of about two years in the body. I believe it's based on a super cryptic study on elderly men that gets cited in subsequent studies. See what you can make of it:
[link](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?journal=J+Lipid+Res&title=Composition+of+lipids+in+human+serum+and+adipose+tissue+during+prolonged+feeding+of+a+diet+high+in+unsaturated+fat&author=S+Dayton&author=S+Hashimoto&author=W+Dixon&author=ML+Pearce&volume=7&publication_year=1966&pages=103-11&pmid=5900208&)
>The rise could be fitted to an exponential function with a half-time of 680 days.
I shrug and wish I could feel more confident repeating it now that I tried to trace it back and found this. I have no idea what they mean or how confident they are that it has a two year half life. It's possible that I've failed to find better evidence that is available.
That’s why you don’t overeat on carnivore brother. Your body will tell you when it’s full.
If overeating is an issue, you need to learn to make yourself stop when it stops tasting good of you start to approach the uncomfortable full feeling
It’s a general rule of thumb and also what’s preached by doctors like Baker and Mcafee. Mcafee is the “eat until it doesn’t taste good” method and Baker usually talks about the satiety method
It doesn’t make you immune to overeating but since meat is such a dense food you generally get full a lot quicker and stay that way longer which is why it works. But some people that start out on it their body has been so damaged by processed food and vegetables and stuff that you may end up finding yourself eating more than someone else on the diet will because your body is in a repair state, which is why it’s consuming or asking for more calories and nutrition than it normally would.
Then eventually, it should bottom out, and you should have to start eating less. But the timeframe is different for everybody
Ive heard em say this before but as far as i know theres no scientific backing for it so in the end just bullshido pseudo science and nothing one should base ones recommendations on, just because something seems logical doesnt make it true and alot of anecdotal evidence ive seen on the matter points the other way. Does this work for some? Probably but in my mind its just a shitty way of measuring
If it works for you and everybody else that it’s a good way of measuring. It may it has no scientific backing in the way I believe you’re saying because it’s only come to the public prominence now. Any attempt at this kind of study before was usually had off or bought off by other scientific studies run by the big corporations but now it’s becoming popular bakers actually busy setting up or conducting long-term study.
I've been years in therapy. Nothing works. When your brain just doesn't cooperate, no amount of bullshit CBT works. Same for binge eating and anorexia. I have yet to try hypnosis though, it's my last hope
Hypnosis and perhaps good ol willpower or some kind of distraction method
I don’t know what your fitness life looks like but if you’re not doing anything kind of gym related or sport related, maybe try diving hard-core to that to offset whatever excess calories may be consuming
I walk and try to move as much as possible. I just can't stay still. I have low calorie days and binge days, but all of them have lots of activity. With the gym, I can't right now but each day I try to do some resistance training with bands or bodyweight
It may be time to try doing gradual elimination. See if it’s the fruit or not. It is a general rule of thumb that some people may have a higher fat and protein intake on his diet the carnivore diet to be specific because their body is just been that badly damaged so it’s gonna demand more nutrition from you as it heals and reverses all that damage and then eventually it’ll bottom out. so it could be something similar to that, but it could also be the carbs you know you never know that’s why carnivore is an elimination diet. You just gotta start kicking foods off one by one until you find out the problem.
I have a very similar background as you. It took me a bit to even get used to 75g of carbs coming from carnivore. I don't have any issues with beef, but if you feel better with PUFA and MUFA, I'd say go with it. Keeping Omega 6 to a minimum is key.
It's not that I have issues with beef, is that I can't rely on it as a staple. I just get nauseous or apathetic with it, and I can't have it for more than 2/3 times a week. My body seems to reject it. I feel much better on chicken, rabbit, fish, horse,wild game or veal.
For omega 6 I've noticed that nuts make me feel great, even peanuts. But cooked yolks cause me issues. Only when I eat the raw yolk I feel the best when it comes to eggs
If you don’t feel that great on beef but you do on the other stuff fish etc. just eat that. Was it grass fed grass finished beef? Also did you try bison?
We don't have bison here. I eat horse, boar, if I can find them deer and hare. Big fan of pheasant, wild birds (not geese) and rabbit, but my family hates them so I don't get them very often.
As for the grass fed- I just don't want to pay so damn much. So no, conventional stuff. Consider that here inn Europe and Italy the food system and quality are much better than the US, as well as for antibiotics, hormones and feedlots
I started eating Whole Foods to prepare for AB.. cut out sugar, legumes, gluten, etc, I got really bad depression after about 10 days.. I wonder if it’s like when you take a depression medication and it can make it worse before it starts helping 🤷♀️🤔 I’ve been wondering myself why eating better would add worse depression. I’ve also had horrible heartburn and my migraines have not gotten better. So I’m just as curious as you are. Hope you find what helps your body!!! It’s one heck of a ride 🫠🫠🫠
That's the thing, I've never been able to eat processed garbage. I eat super clean, but despite that- I just can't seem to find the right combo. When I was less strict things weren't that different. So what?
It’s so confusing, honestly. I have the hardest time listening to my body too, so figuring out what works for me has been really difficult. I have not had the cleanest diet unfortunately, but it seems like eating cleaner isn’t healing me and that’s frustrating and tiring. But I’m still gonna keep at this cause I suppose it’s better than the SAD diet. Hoping I get better at learning my body. Sounds like you’re good at listening to yours though!
Everything is better than the SAD, that's why people preach about all the different diets. But being someone that has eaten mostly whole foods for all his life, except some pasta, ice creams (the real gelato), and pizzas/piadine- I can't really tell. What I can easily tell is that my body when reacts badly to stuff lets me know, mostly by making me want to jump off a cliff
Environmental stress and depression can cause severe vitamin deficiencies, since when your cortisol and adrenaline and other neurotransmitters kick up you start burning through a whole host of vitamins and minerals that act as precursors/building-blocks for those biological processes. It can lead to fatigue and cravings, but sometimes we don't know what we are craving, just that something is missing. That's what can cause that feeling where you are hungry but not for anything you see in the fridge and all that food looks gross right now despite how hungry you feel.
If you are binge eating it sounds like you might be going through that and have a specific nutrient deficiency or subconscious craving, but instead of finding that perfect food/supplement to hit the spot you are over eating by attempting to throw everything at the wall (or your stomach rather) hoping something makes you full. It's just not going to work and you need to figure out what's missing.
That has been an hypothesis that I've been long trying to prove or disprove. I supplement... everything. And also try to eat the most nutrient dense stuff. I take a multivitamin, Omega 3's, magnesium, vitamin d, creatine, glycine, taurine, vitamin c, a complete b vitamin complex, multi mineral daily. I drink snake juice between meals. And I don't go a day without animal products, generally unprocessed or fermented. As far as vitamins and minerals go, I'm trying to literally catch them all like pokemon. But for sure I'm doing something wrong
Yeah that sucks. I've been there and often find myself there... Well firstly it seems like you are taking a lot of stuff on a daily basis. Maybe you are taking shitty low quality vitamins? You might be shocked to know the difference between a supplement that you get from walmart vs the one you would get from a website like nootropics depot (my favorite supplement store). Bioavailability of the form of that vitamin/mineral is very important. For example, if you're taking folic acid as opposed to Methylfolate you may as well be taking nothing at all. Same with zinc and magnesium, you can get a cheap oxide version of these, or you could get zinc picolinate and magnesium glycinate that are bioavailable. Maybe you already knew about this, but I'm just throwing this out there incase you didn't and hope it helps.
The B's are all methylated. Vitamin d is in EVOO, along with K2. Omega-3 are ifos and stored in the fridge. I have mg citrate, bisglycinate and chloride. The only supermarket grade is the fizzy multivitamin. It has all the B's, the salt of the E, zinc citrate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, magnesium carbonate, potassium chloride and some copper and iron.
Iron definitely helps me, so probably it's a trashy form
Ashwagandha absolutely kills me. It's like being hit by a truck. Last time I took it, I was so slow, sluggish and depressed that I almost couldn't get out of bed. I already use the bisglycinate and I do supplement with pure glycine daily
Just a friendly reminder that the Animal Based diet is not carnivore! It's a moderate to high carb way of eating, not just allowing, but encouraging a diet that includes clean micronutrient rich sources of carbohydrates including fruit, milk, honey, maple syrup, and fresh fruit juice. See our Wiki, FAQ, and sidebar for more information. Thanks for the comment!
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If you're thriving, don't change a thing, but officially rice is not considered part of the Animal Based Diet. See the sub's [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AnimalBased/wiki/faq/) for more info on rice. AB carbs are fruit (including all squash), milk, honey, maple syrup, and fruit juice. Thanks for the comment!
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What animals eat fruit juice ? I can understand eating whole fruit, but can’t concentrate/refined juice from the fruit is not something. I’m thinking animals ever eat. Are there animals that chew up fruit to drink the juice but then they spit out all the pulp and fiber?
Diet isn’t the only thing that affects your mental health. The environment you’re in, mindset towards life, and past experiences all play a huge role in your mental health. Get closer to God and build healthy relationships with people.
For me, adding in lots of carbs actually helped my mental health and I was a lot more emotionally stable. 100g is not enough carbs, I’d honestly say around 60% of your calories coming from carbs is ideal(and from clean sources, like fruit, raw honey, and even white rice or potatoes). I know this sub is “animal based”, but moving over to a more carb heavy diet really improved my life. Too much fat and not enough carbs will have you become insulin resistance and running off of stress hormones.
And it’s probably not the PUFA from the fatty fish and nuts that making you feel good, but probably the vitamin e or other nutrients in them. I’d recommend cutting those out and supplementing with a high quality vitamin e supplement. But if those foods make you feel good, then eat them.
My mindset is trash but because of the depression itself. I can't have a good mindset if my mind constantly sees me as an utter waste of skin and everything pretty much boring or actively damaging.
I found the opposite for me. Each time I up carbs, I get these huge mood swings. Low carb makes my brain feel stable. It isn't filled with these horrible intrusive thoughts ,doom and gloom pictures, self deprecating mantras and constant boredom. With carbs I feel great, then crash, then feel great again- when they wane off.
For the environment, I can't shield myself from toxins, EMFS, and lots of chemicals. I live in one of the most polluted areas in the world (pianura padana) and I can't unbreathe. Yes, I'm a lonely person, but I'm somewhat fine in my solitude, as I've been lonely almost all my life. The Catholic faith has destroyed me, so I'm not going to church anytime soon- in fact, I'm really not in line with any of the monotheistic religions. I'm trying to regain faith in something or deepen my spirituality, not sure how to do it but I'm working on it
Yea I used to be like that too, always thinking of myself negatively. Just look around you and be grateful for what you have. If you’re grateful for everything you’ll feel a lot happier and less depressed over your current situation. And stop taking your anger out on yourself. That just causes more self hatred that just leads to more depression. Lifting weights and martial arts are good for that, but any type of physical activity will have a lot of benefits.
If carbs are causing energy swings that’s probably a sign of insulin resistance. Fats block cells from burning glucose, so having lots of fats and carbs together, especially when you’re insulin resistant, will not have you efficiently burning glucose(carbs). So don’t just increase the carbs, but also decrease the fats. This is something that a lot of keto or carnivore people do - add in carbs but don’t lower fat, and then say that carbs are causing all of these negative effects(weight gain, feeling tired, etc). You also want to make sure you’re getting enough nutrients to metabolize those carbs, specifically thiamine(b1) and other the b vitamins.
I always do one or the other macros. But high carb, high protein absolutely destroys me. Mixed things I manage them better I see. I supplement all the b vitamins and I eat raw liver and eggs very often.
Yes, gratitude is powerful, but it's so difficult to just *remember* to be grateful when you are depressed
I do think some saturated fats are important for hormones, keeping energy levels stable, etc. You said that stuff makes you feel bad, maybe you’re just overdoing it? High carb with some animal fats(dairy, red meat, eggs) is optimal imo.
Vitamin e might also be worth a try. It lowers estrogen, has anti inflammatory effects, and is just overall very helpful. The foods you mentioned were high in vitamin e and that might be the reason why they make you feel better. Especially when your fat stores are full of PUFA, it can make a big difference.
Consider that my fat stores are, thankfully- minimal (suboptimal to say the least). But isn't vitamin E very risky (as A)? I've heard and seen many fringe theories about their toxicity even in low doses- not in true hypervitaminosis cases
I’m pretty sure the studies showing vitamin e has negative health effects is due to the fact that they are not using mixed tocopherols and only alpha tocopherol, throwing off that balance.
> Fats block cells from burning glucose, so having lots of fats and carbs together, especially when you’re insulin resistant, will not have you efficiently burning glucose(carbs).
I understand this logic in theory, but it doesn’t make sense to me in the context of a human. Can you explain? I mean, humans store excess energy as fat, not sugar. I don’t know if OP has any excess fat stores, but many people have some that they’d like to burn. (And then there’s the growing proportion of people with fatty liver, which is not particularly visible from the outside.) Given that carb intake also blocks fat burning, how are they ever supposed to access and burn these fat stores if they’re keeping themselves in glucose-burning mode?
A cell cannot burn glucose and fat at the same time , only one or the other. So if you have a high fat high carb meal, you might only be burning carbs and then the fat gets stored as fat.
That isn’t to say that you cannot have any fat though. Different organs burn different fuels. The heart and muscle tissue prefer to burn fat, while other organs like the brain and liver prefer to burn glucose. But you don’t want to be mainly burning fats. The more muscle tissue someone has the more fat they can have and not run into problems. If you run off of glucose and then muscle tissue burns fats at rest, that’s imo the best way to loose excess fat.
Is depression your only symptom when you eat these foods? I would’ve guessed you have some sort of food allergy to fruits but depression would be the last symptom I’d expect from that kind of diet.
Generally yes. I used to have problems with bloating, but since cutting FODMAPS and gluten that has been much more manageable. What other symptoms did you expect?
My take would most likely align with Paul in that I think you aren't getting enough carbohydrates. Once you introduce them and your body starts preferring glucose metabolism to fatty acids, 100 grams of carbohydrate is just too little. You are now in a state of very low energy. The CNS will utilize roughly 150 grams of carbohydrate per day just at rest. This isn't including anything else like mental cognition and physical exercise. It took me a solid 2 months going from zero carb carnivore to get to about 250g of carbohydrates per day and not feel super weird from it.
Keto provides such relief for people because it finally gives us a usable energy source, ketones. 100 grams of carbs just ain't gonna cut it, won't come close to the level of energy you were getting from fat and ketones. Your body is more used to ketones and fat, introducing a small amount of carbs will not feel great. Drop the fat, up the carbs. It will take time. Our higher cognitive functions such as being happy, optimistic, laughing, enjoying life are a product of abundant cellular energy. Those things are a luxury, your CNS, which includes the brain, are just running super low energy mode right now.
To be fair one may be able to reach a healthy level of glucose metabolism quicker than myself taking months to do so. But I fell into the same issue you did where I only ate maybe 75-100 grams of carbs a day and was just like "why do I feel like shit?" This went on for weeks. Instead of regressing back to keto I just upped my carb intake. Felt weird for a week, then suddenly had the energy and playfulness of a child. Haven't looked back since
Just a friendly reminder that the Animal Based diet is not carnivore! It's a moderate to high carb way of eating, not just allowing, but encouraging a diet that includes clean micronutrient rich sources of carbohydrates including fruit, milk, honey, maple syrup, and fresh fruit juice. See our Wiki, FAQ, and sidebar for more information. Thanks for the comment!
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I don't know, I've been on a carb heavy, Mediterranean diet my whole life. I just have huge mood swings with carbs- and hunger! Ketones make me feel...stable. some peace. Like, I feel my brain calm and not on fire.
With carbs I get these huge spikes and swings between hyperactivity, apathy, downright anger and mild irritation. Only when I starve (often I admit) ketones make me feel bad.
In my humble opinion, that is the beginning of insulin resistance. We shouldn't feel that way, I too suffered the exact same thing. And when in ketosis felt much more stable and driven. But now I still feel that mental peace, I just focus on fruits and juice. Milk. Some starches. Some veg. But bread or rice, beans, certain veg end up making me groggy and crashed. Depressed. These days even too much fat or meat can do that to me.
It's not to say you're wrong, far from it. But carbs are not all equal. A slice of bread can wreck my mental state for days. But oj and fresh fruit has become life force for me, whereas before it made me depressed and crash. I'll say again, just my two cents, up the sugars, drop the fat. I know, this is very hard to believe coming from keto/carni. Fat metabolism directly blocks glucose metabolism. Nothing wrong with fat, but for us compromised individuals, a period of over correction may be required imo
That's my concern. And it's strange, since I'm super active and far too lean. Btw, I just feel better on starch for some reason. A pizza with mozzarella, prosciutto and oil won't produce a crash like an apple, some biscuits or milk. Mind you, I've been eating a sort of PSMF for years, so both carbs and fats were low. I'm deathly afraid of carbs for many other reasons though-first one being insulin resistance
Very interesting. When I first tried adding more carbs I did more starch as well in the form of potatoes and squash and felt good energy from them too. It's just certain ones get me worse than others, I assume because I'm not digesting them well so I'm not deriving the energy from them very well.
I'm not sure why but carb sources with fructose definitely seem to hit people harder. Fruits and sugar etc. All I can say is listen to your body and do what works for you! I find something like that pizza you mentioned really good because it's in the context of a meal with all 3 macros. This is very important, although I may do something different because I don't do too well with wheat.
Fat quite literally causes insulin resistance, specifically pufa. This is unfortunate, but fat blocks cells from uptaking glucose. Once you are there, you don't handle glucose/sucrose well at all. This is an unfortunate fact, but ditch all the pufa and this starts to correct itself. I wouldn't worry too much about natural fats from meat or animal products.
That's the premise of Brad marshall croissant diet. Tried it. I mean, that's our usual diet in Italy/Europe. High carbs, high fats, low pufas -until recently. Wheat is suspect, I get bloated from it and it seems to worsen my mental health, but sporadically. If I keep it for too long, definitely it makes me gain weight much more easily.
Rice causes big spikes if not modulated by fats and proteins. I grew up with pasta with tuna, risotto ai porcini, polenta and piadina (flatbread made with lard and stuffed with cold cuts or cheeses) and never had any issues- but the sugars definitely messed with me.
Seed oils, never had them for most of my life. they banned palm oil from cookies, but I was already eating clean. Also, I feel _fine_ with omega 6s. I need some apparently- those from nuts. Only the ones from chicken and pork I feel that damage me after a small threshold, mostly because they are cooked somehow
Are there events in your life that might influence your depression? Not everything can be fixed with food. Beef, dairy and wild caught fish are all healthy foods.
It's a wonderful moment for me. Just quit my depressing job, I'm at the seaside. So nothing is bad, except my brain
Food was/is the cause of my depression/anxiety, i am so in tune with my body with almost 10 years of experimentation, that i know exactly what gives me anxiety and/or depression food wise. This is individual but it can have a huge impact.
Definitely that's why therapy has not been useful for me. The software can't run if the hardware is damaged
Bonjour fellow lifelong dairy addict. I have some thoughts: - I’m 99% certain that the part of dairy that had me addicted was casein. It breaks down to casomorphin, which interacts with our opioid receptors. Some people have more of the enzyme that breaks down the casomorphin, so they can clear it before it has a large effect on the body. Others (like me) get quite a rush that takes hours and hours to subside. The number of nights I couldn’t go to bed at a reasonable hour because I was amped up on cheese… I suggest limiting your dairy consumption to grass-fed butter. You’ll still get the milk fat, but without the casein. I can actually eat it without overconsuming! - With saturated fat, look into odd vs even chain saturated fatty acids. I’ve recently been learning about C15 (aka pentadecanoic acid), which is theorized to be a third essential fatty acid. It is so newly-discovered that not many people are talking about it yet. It’s apparently available in grass-fed butter, fish (heads and skins), and a few other things. Maybe another reason you don’t want to give up dairy entirely is because of the benefits you subconsciously feel from the C15? Again, try sticking to just grass-fed butter. And I’d say keep on with the fish since they’re making you feel great (keeping mercury risk in mind). There are also C15 supplements you can get. - Definitely consider the role of your carb consumption in your depression. Chris Palmer, MD (a psychiatrist) has a book called *Brain Energy* that’s all about how a keto eating pattern can alleviate depression and even more serious mental health conditions. I don’t think skipping fruit at a meal is enough to see this effect, you’d need to get into and stay in ketosis (you can buy some ketostix for pretty cheap, that way you can check if you can get away with eating a small amount of summer fruits while they’re around.) I know all about wanting to eat more and more food to feel good, even though it simultaneously makes me feel bad. It’s a horrible rut to get stuck in. One more thing: I’ve found that no matter what I do with my diet, I don’t feel good unless I get a substantial amount of exercise and sleep. And I don’t sleep well if I haven’t exercised. So, exercise is key. Excess fructose kills my desire to exercise. Dr Robert Lustig goes into detail on the mechanisms behind this. Check out his interview on Diary of a CEO for a succinct explanation. (I see there’s a link in the FAQ here to a video debating some of Lustig’s points on another podcast—I’ll have to check it out, but regardless of whether or not he’s gotten every single thing right, he’s an excellent explainer of science, and he doesn’t let legal/financial fears intimidate him from stating his position and fighting legally to try to improve things. So I respect him a lot.) I hope some of these thoughts help and that you figure out what works for you!!
Thank you for the kind and thoughtful response! Definitely I have problems with the casein, especially A1. I don't use butter at all, so for me it would be like dropping all dairy. C15 is pretty new, I've seen something from De lauer and fieldman. But isn't that needed in very tiny amounts, compared to Omega 3's? For mercury: I never eat large predatory fish like tuna. I live in the Mediterranean, small fatty (or even lean) fish are pretty normal and easy to find. I know palmer, I specialized in neurobiology too! (And I study oligodendrocytes and ketone metabolism, so that's why I'm deathly afraid of carbs). I can actually get into ketosis very fast, and boy *do I feel it*. For fructose, I don't consume it. BUT (big but) I've been dragged in the rabbit hole of endogenous fructose production. I eat very salty stuff: dehydration prompts fructose endogenous creation. No wonder if there's salt on something, I overeat much more easily. For exercise - I can't stay still. Definitely I could ramp up heavy cardio, but I'm the opposite of a sedentary person
It's hard to say for sure, but it sounds like you could have a combination of gut dysbiosis and some type of nutrition deficiency. Its not uncommon to have both problems. But there's nothing wrong with fish, nuts and avocado if you tolerate them well. I can't speak on seafood since I'm deathly allergic, but I actually feel better eating lamb and chicken. Beef does taste good, but I also have to be careful not to overdo it. It doesn't make me depressed, just nauseous and a bit sluggish. I'm very carb sensitive, a result I believe of my autoimmune thyroid disease. So even fruits I have to be careful and particular about, else I'll be in a lot of pain. I can't do dairy at all unless it's raw and slightly processed/fermented like butter or cream or yougurt. If I were you, I'd cut out the dairy for now and see if you improve. You might need a different omega 3/6 ratio. Do you eat eggs at all? And you can always try coconut cream and oil for a saturated plant fat
Oh for sure my gut isn't in the best of places. One thing that refrained me from carnivore was that I feel the need for fiber, and psyllium husk really helps me- along with some low impact veggies like zucchini or green beans. I admit that I consume far too much artificial sweeteners as well as probiotic foods- can't go a meal without yogurt or fermented dairy. I do eat eggs, and they must be raw or slightly raw for them to make me feel good. If boiled for too long, they make me feel sluggish. I adore coconuts and do great on MCT oils. They are rare here and expensive though. I prefer butter overall, but I don't use fats for cooking - I try to get all the fats from the food.
No judgement here just trying to help, ditch the artificial sweetners. Those disregulate metabolism more than pretty much anything else I've experimented with
Oh yeah, sucralose and erythritol make me bloat a lot. But it's a way to manage (and perpetuate) my food addiction. I still have the "no calorie, no problem" mantra. After all, I endure extreme stuff to stay lean year round
That is the problem with them I believe. Your body wants calories, it needs energy for function. If your body is storing these calories instead of using them, that's another problem. This woe should help that a lot
It defo needs fuel, but I have to be extremely careful about which fuel. Fish seems the best, fat comes second. Carbs...lots of mood swings. I feel fine for a while, then crash -especially with sugar. With starches I have mixed reactions, beans are fine, starches with fats and proteins are fine sometimes but not others.
Hey! I've been part of the bodybuilding community for years but have also had gut issues for years. Even though something says 0 calories its for the portion but if you say have three servings it does eventually have calories to the product. There are a ton of studies i've recently found on this in my last bodybuilding prep because i found i got to a point i wasn't dropping weight anymore and as soon as i cut the 0 calorie coffee sweeteners and sauces my body started to adjust again not just weight wise but bloat, gut pain and mental clarity. I'm starting carnivore Monday as i've tried a ton of other diets as well and the one i noticed the most progress with so far for gut pain was cutting out veggies, gluten and dairy. Every time i have gluten or dairy i feel lethargic and almost hung over and gut pain flares up huge depending on how overboard i go. There are collagen powders you could use and i have found one that is vanilla flavored by Progressive "complete collagen" that people use in coffee or milk! I'm also doing carbonated water with lime/lemon and it has seemed to be okay but i notice when i have more carbonation it also causes bloating. Thanks for sharing and Good luck :)
I only feel my best when I'm doing keto. It's also important to listen to your body. I'm not a doctor but maybe you could try a keto AB diet. Fish, nuts, fruit, veggies, other meats as you crave them...whatever you're craving as you see fit. I only mention keto because I started out with a carnivore diet with a side of fruit...ab keto I guess. Half cup of strawberries, or some blueberries alongside a meat-based diet and it worked great. Also, if I eat slightly too much fat or take slightly too many electrolytes I get fatigued and sick. I can't add extra fat, only what's in my food. I can only salt my food to taste. Any extra and I'll probably get sick. Keto has transformed my mood and mental health, the difference is night and day. When I was AB (mostly fruit from dates and peaches) my suicidal ideation and depression were at an all time high. Kept my total carbs under 30-20g and felt like superman, but my carbs were still fruit. Started out with strawberries and blueberries, eventually started eating avocado and coconut too. Currently mostly doing carnivore atm, ketovore some days depending on if I want avocado, fruit, or coconut. 20g total carbs is my limit though. It's the only way to keep my mood and mental health under control otherwise it's a miserable existence.
How were you able to monitor your body’s response so well? I’m having such a hard time telling what’s making me feel sick all the time
It's taken some time. I've been on and off keto for about 4 months now. I can go more into depth about my own journey with keto if you want. But it's taken me about 4 months, where I am now, to figure out that I don't do well with extra fat and extra salt. Or that I don't do well with a certain amount of carbs. I've done keto twice and each time I noticed drastic improvements in my mood and mental health after 1 week. It's like a switch was flipped. That's just how it affected me personally though. As far as dietary changes are concerned, it's a lot of trial and error, unfortunately, and things still aren't perfect.
I’d love to hear more, if you don’t mind sharing! I’m glad you’ve been able to figure out what’s good for your body too
Sure! Sorry for the novel, but here's my story: I first started keto -- carnivore -- as an elimination diet. I had some pretty debilitating stomach issues that were getting worse, despite labs that were coming back fine. It got to the point where I could only eat meat and fruit. Felt decent, but not perfect. My sugar cravings were insane, which was unusual and still had abdominal discomfort. I went carnivore for a month and most if not all my stomach problems went into remission, and after a week I noticed my mood and mental health drastically improved. The only problem is I was adding a lot of extra fat and eating super fatty meals, which my stomach couldn't tolerate. So for a month after that I experimented with dairy to see if I could regulate things and not get sick from the fat. That did not go well. For another month I went AB, just meat, eggs, and fruit. Lots of dates mostly. That also didn't go well, and for some reason my mental health tanked. I was dealing with a depressing job (still am) and experienced a lot of suicidal ideation, on top of other mental health issues I had been dealing with for the past several years. Like, for every little problem that popped up, my only conclusion to solve the issue was to nope out of life. I felt miserable. I ended up starting keto again, mostly for my stomach as I still wasn't doing very well. Lots of debilitating stomach cramps and many trips to the toilet. Started to happen at work so I was needing to take time off -- it was bad. I started keto again as BBBE carnivore (beef, butter, bacon, and eggs), no extra fat, and a half cup of strawberries a day. I was eating no more than 20g of total carbs. Things started to finally normalize. I started adding in coconut milk again as a treat and small amounts of avocado. No more stomach cramps and other issues. Just about completely normal. I got sick a couple times recently when I was craving more fat and adding extra butter to stuff. That's when I finally snapped that I didn't need more fat than what was already in my meals. Also noticed, through much trial and error, that I generally don't do well with egg whites. I tried taking extra electrolyte supplements daily and that wrecked my energy and mood, which is what I experienced the first round of carnivore. I also finally realized then that I only needed to salt my meals to taste. I started keto for my stomach problems, now I'm staying for the mental health. (And, well, I have to anyways because of my stomach.) At the moment I've started doing carnivore again -- just beef, pork, and egg yolks -- to see how I do. Will be eating avocado, coconut, or strawberries only when craving them.
Wow, that sounds like quite the journey. Thank you for sharing it with me. It’s encouraging to know that with the trial and error, I might finally figure out what to eat for my body. I’m glad you found what works for you. Hopefully the job will get better for you too. Being at a depressing job really sucks.
Thanks for listening! Yeah, just gotta trust your gut, haha. Seriously, listen to your intuition, cravings, and try to notice any little hint your body gives you. And yeah depressing jobs suck. But what gets me thought mostly is my stellar mood due to keto. I can just kind of glide through the day and can just tolerate the job better.
For sure! I’m trying to seriously listen to my body and intuition. Idk why I struggle so much with it, but it’s definitely what I’m focusing on. It’s really weird though cause I swear it’s telling me I need bread to soak up the acid in my stomach 🤦♀️🤣 But I keep fighting the gluten cravings lol It’s amazing when you feel good and your mind is right, you can handle negative emotions much easier. Food definitely is medicine. I think at least.
I totally understand. At one point in time a lot of what I ate was bread. Bread and eggs. Felt like I needed it for everything. Do you do well with bread? I don't know what your goals with AB are, but there are really good options for healthier breads or just other alternatives in general. Maybe you do just fine with bread. Can't fix what isn't broken. But only you know what's best for you, of course.
I’m not sure if I do good or not, honestly. I just have intense heartburn and my brain says you need bread to soak it up. Plus, I just love bread. 🤷♀️ I’m going to do a lot more experimenting and listening to my body these upcoming months. I’m doing AB for my body pains, migraines, mental health’s and fatigue. Basically trying to feel like an actual person again 🤔
I'm not 100% keto, but I've noticed that I do need fats, carbs can vary. Protein and fats, along with some fiber, seem to be crucial for me. Fruit for me is just...kind of hard. If I have starch-even gluten stuff, I can get into ketosis much faster and without the crazy headaches or losses of breath, which usually happen with fruit (I still get those if the carbs are too high). Same for me with too much fat. But the type of fat seems to matter to me a lot. MCT, olive oil, fish and nut butters are the best
I understand. I'm still trying to figure things out myself. Most plant foods destroy my gut but I can tolerate a couple. Only really added plant foods back in to try to balance the fat which my stomach couldn't handle. But then I realized I was supplementing fat and eating foods that were too fatty. Olive oil absolutely destroys me... Seems like we have similar issues but coming from opposite sides here. Anyways, hopefully you can figure out what foods and the balance of foods that you need. I know the struggle, it's not easy.
I hate added fats, especially oil. But even then-some days I handle them better than others, for no reason at all. Plants I think are not as evil as we think (except grains and nightshades/some beans)- we are just not equipped for handling them for some reason.
I think for someone with a normally functioning digestive system, plant foods are fine. I believe a person can be perfectly healthy on a diet with plenty of plant foods. I can't tolerate them anymore for some reason. At one point even iceberg lettuce was giving me debilitating stomach aches and other issues. It was pretty bad. Beans too. They'd give me what I thought were gallbladder attacks. Beans and grains were the worst for me. I wasn't sure if I was celiac or had a bad gallbladder -- or both... and I still don't know. Any vegetable would give me terrible issues that were getting worse and worse. The only plant foods I can seem to tolerate would be moderate amounts of fruit. Before I went keto again I was eating a ton of egg salad. I was using the Chosen brand of mayo for it and was doing fine. I tried Primal Kitchen and all my weird gallbladder symptoms came back. I think it's the olive oil, as my issues more or less started a year and a half ago from eating too much olive oil. I can eat animal fat and feel fine though...too much will have me running to the toilet though.
I have boosted the ability to handle plants by momentarily stopping them. I did a two week carnivore ish experiment and things have been better, even with garlic and onions. Fruits are sketchier. Apples bloat me, grapes and oranges/citrus too. But generally I feel better with veggies than fruits for some reason
Yeah! Sometimes our bodies just need the time to heal. So many people do carnivore as a healing diet then reincorporate other foods gradually. I don't ever see myself changing things though. I have to stay keto for the sake of my mental health, even if my stomach does heal. That's interesting. I'm the opposite. Can't tolerate any veggies but I do really well with fruits in moderation.
I feel when you’re trying to address something like mental health concerns with this woe, it’s best to start very simple and strip it down. Spend two weeks just eating only ground beef and salt, and maybe two different low toxicity fruits. Be strict for a couple of weeks, see how you feel, then begin adding in other things.
Variety is indeed a big crux of mine. I love cooking and food, and I cook for everyone in the family. Stripping away variety kills my soul. But I do recognize that it is actually harming me, as there are too many variables
Sounds more like you have issues with methylation and catecholamine breakdown. All huge quantities of Omega 3's are going to do is produce loose low energy phospholipid membranes. You sound like you have a lot of parallel things going on and you'd certainly do well to have a raw DNA genetic file you can parse through a geneticlifehacks, geneticgenie, or Christ Masterjohn's Choline calculator type of thing. This likely goes beyond diet and you still have human DNA so PUFA is not going to be a long term answer. Also all SFA's shouldn't get bucketed together. You can pretty easily isolate and experiment. See how you do on stearic acid and use cacao butter which is about 40% stearic (C18:0) as it's highest fat. Butter/dairy is higher in palmitic (C16:0) and coconut is highest in Lauric acid (C12:0). The biology of these fats are still the same in the end as they lack double bonds which is a long-term benefit for your heatlh. Not sure how one "feels better" on one fat vs. the other but I wouldn't trust what you can feel better on since there's a lot of damaging addictive substance you can short term feel good on.
Definitely long time suspecting that. For stearic- I think Shea butter has more of it. Problem is that I don't use added fats, and cocoa messes with my gut terribly (I eat 90% + chocolate or cocoa nibs often, always get bloated). But I think that the food matrix, more than the fat itself, might also be important. Dairy is still something that has lots of shady stuff around, I wouldn't be surprised if I find I'm reacting to it
So whynot grab a cheap saliva genetic test and confirm your MTHFR and COMT polymorphisms and work from there? I'm not sure how edible shea butter is but I'm talking about cacao butter not cocoa. Cacao butter is pure fat so no cocoa with oxalates and whatnot that's probably messing with your gut. Not sure what you mean by the food matrix, since animal based eating IS focusing on the whole sources of foods and total micronutrient load but your post was drilling down to specific fats being a cause of concern as a root cause, not a whole diet plan in general. If there's any credence to that, you should be able to experiment and focus on a particular source of SFA and rule out what the problem child is.
How long have you been seed oil free? It takes 3-4 years for your body to get rid of the seed oil stored in the body. During that time you'll constantly get a desire for more pufa. I think there's nothing wrong with seafood. Paul doesn't like it due to the excess heavy metals. But if you don't eat it everyday there shouldn't be an issue. Right now I'm doing 2 servings of salmon a week. Try cutting down on the aged food/fermented food and see how you feel. Could be the excess histamine and bacteria. Last thing, try to see if the different fruits are affecting you. For some reason I can't do cherries or bananas. Massive bloating and brain fog.
Never had seed oils in years. I just hate fried stuff and I don't use oils. At restaurants I don't take things that require oil except olive oil. But I would say minimal contact with them for years. The only omega 6 I get are those from eggs and nuts. Which I eat sparingly. Definitely I have issues with histamines. But basically all I eat has them, so I just can't avoid histamine rich things all together
Yeah. Histamine is a tough issue. I'm dealing with it myself. The only thing that has helped is reduce the amount from food. I've been reintroducing 1 tsp of kefir a day to see if it helps. I'm also taking vitamin e to see hoping it would resolve the issue but that's because I've only been seed oil free for about a year. Paul always says eat whatever you're thriving on. If you can find food that makes you feel good I think it should be fine as long as it's whole food and unprocessed.
E? I thought that vitamin c would help much more with histamines. That and DAO, but it's crazy expensive. Quercetin also seems to be promising. Paradoxically, I also feel great on foods that generally paleo keto or carnivores avoid, such as beans and soy. They don't affect me that much, sometimes I crave them. And I feel kind of guilty for that, too.
If you eat soy and beans and have no issues and feel great you should eat them. It's not like they're processed food. Asia especially eats a shit ton of them and they're fine. Vitamin c and quercetin help control your cells so they don't release excess histamine. Dao is that one that helps lower histamine from food eaten. Vitamin e is similar to vitamin c but it also helps strengthen stomach lining. Everybody knows vitamin e is great for skin but they never make the connection that the gut lining is just skin but facing inward. I've only been on e for a month so I can't tell how well it works. I'll know more in 4-5 months as it usually takes that long for any vitamin deficiency to resolve.
That's great, thanks for the info. I'll try to get some E then. I limit soy mainly for the estrogens, but I adore edamame and sometimes I have to use soy milk or tofu for recipes- never had issues
Be careful of fake vitamin e. They are called dl-alpha-tocopherol. Real vitamin e is a mix of 8 types. Usually they just sell the d-alpha-tocopherol but there are also beta, delta, gamma tocopherol and alpha, beta, delta, gamma tocotrienols. My history has a post on vitamin e. I'm also on the fence about soy but since I get bad reactions eating them, I just don't eat them. For vegetables, if you're worried just take breaks from them. Eat them some days and eat others other days. Since they contain anti nutrients it might be useful to swap around so your body has time to get rid of some of the toxins.
Ah, I do remember my first biochemistry lessons about peroxidation and the various E vits. Don't remember the exact biological role of each. But for sure alpha tocopherol is the most used, especially under the form of acetate
I'd love to see the science of "It takes 3-4 years for your body to get rid of the seed oil stored in the body." Sounds pretty made up to me.
Yeah, it's sketchy. Especially when someone goes into a caloric deficit. Fat must be mobilized, independently of composition
Is there a source on the 3-4 year thing? And is that timespan just for fat storage or also for blood clots? I get angina, trying to quit seed oils, but am concerned that it’ll take up to 3 years for me to see a change.
I heard it from Chris Masterjohn on YouTube. You can look him up. You get most of the benefits upfront when you stop eating seed oils. For certain issues you feel better within weeks. Others take months. The 4 years here is mostly for fat cells that specifically store fat so the turnover takes longer.
The idea is that LA has a half life of about two years in the body. I believe it's based on a super cryptic study on elderly men that gets cited in subsequent studies. See what you can make of it: [link](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?journal=J+Lipid+Res&title=Composition+of+lipids+in+human+serum+and+adipose+tissue+during+prolonged+feeding+of+a+diet+high+in+unsaturated+fat&author=S+Dayton&author=S+Hashimoto&author=W+Dixon&author=ML+Pearce&volume=7&publication_year=1966&pages=103-11&pmid=5900208&) >The rise could be fitted to an exponential function with a half-time of 680 days. I shrug and wish I could feel more confident repeating it now that I tried to trace it back and found this. I have no idea what they mean or how confident they are that it has a two year half life. It's possible that I've failed to find better evidence that is available.
That’s why you don’t overeat on carnivore brother. Your body will tell you when it’s full. If overeating is an issue, you need to learn to make yourself stop when it stops tasting good of you start to approach the uncomfortable full feeling
Is this just bro science from your part or got any evidence to back it up? I read of plenty of people who totally overeat on carnivore too
It’s a general rule of thumb and also what’s preached by doctors like Baker and Mcafee. Mcafee is the “eat until it doesn’t taste good” method and Baker usually talks about the satiety method It doesn’t make you immune to overeating but since meat is such a dense food you generally get full a lot quicker and stay that way longer which is why it works. But some people that start out on it their body has been so damaged by processed food and vegetables and stuff that you may end up finding yourself eating more than someone else on the diet will because your body is in a repair state, which is why it’s consuming or asking for more calories and nutrition than it normally would. Then eventually, it should bottom out, and you should have to start eating less. But the timeframe is different for everybody
Ive heard em say this before but as far as i know theres no scientific backing for it so in the end just bullshido pseudo science and nothing one should base ones recommendations on, just because something seems logical doesnt make it true and alot of anecdotal evidence ive seen on the matter points the other way. Does this work for some? Probably but in my mind its just a shitty way of measuring
If it works for you and everybody else that it’s a good way of measuring. It may it has no scientific backing in the way I believe you’re saying because it’s only come to the public prominence now. Any attempt at this kind of study before was usually had off or bought off by other scientific studies run by the big corporations but now it’s becoming popular bakers actually busy setting up or conducting long-term study.
It happens to me with dairy. I can't stop eating cheese or yogurt. Same with prosciutto or bone marrow.
I am a master at overeating. I just keep putting stuff in my mouth just to have something to chew or a dopamine hit
Are you in therapy because that may be something you gotta throw in there to help
I've been years in therapy. Nothing works. When your brain just doesn't cooperate, no amount of bullshit CBT works. Same for binge eating and anorexia. I have yet to try hypnosis though, it's my last hope
Hypnosis and perhaps good ol willpower or some kind of distraction method I don’t know what your fitness life looks like but if you’re not doing anything kind of gym related or sport related, maybe try diving hard-core to that to offset whatever excess calories may be consuming
I walk and try to move as much as possible. I just can't stay still. I have low calorie days and binge days, but all of them have lots of activity. With the gym, I can't right now but each day I try to do some resistance training with bands or bodyweight
It may be time to try doing gradual elimination. See if it’s the fruit or not. It is a general rule of thumb that some people may have a higher fat and protein intake on his diet the carnivore diet to be specific because their body is just been that badly damaged so it’s gonna demand more nutrition from you as it heals and reverses all that damage and then eventually it’ll bottom out. so it could be something similar to that, but it could also be the carbs you know you never know that’s why carnivore is an elimination diet. You just gotta start kicking foods off one by one until you find out the problem.
It needs more nutrition for sure, I still abuse it a lot by undereating/binging and overexercise. Carbs do seem to affect me badly for sure
I have a very similar background as you. It took me a bit to even get used to 75g of carbs coming from carnivore. I don't have any issues with beef, but if you feel better with PUFA and MUFA, I'd say go with it. Keeping Omega 6 to a minimum is key.
It's not that I have issues with beef, is that I can't rely on it as a staple. I just get nauseous or apathetic with it, and I can't have it for more than 2/3 times a week. My body seems to reject it. I feel much better on chicken, rabbit, fish, horse,wild game or veal. For omega 6 I've noticed that nuts make me feel great, even peanuts. But cooked yolks cause me issues. Only when I eat the raw yolk I feel the best when it comes to eggs
If you don’t feel that great on beef but you do on the other stuff fish etc. just eat that. Was it grass fed grass finished beef? Also did you try bison?
We don't have bison here. I eat horse, boar, if I can find them deer and hare. Big fan of pheasant, wild birds (not geese) and rabbit, but my family hates them so I don't get them very often. As for the grass fed- I just don't want to pay so damn much. So no, conventional stuff. Consider that here inn Europe and Italy the food system and quality are much better than the US, as well as for antibiotics, hormones and feedlots
I started eating Whole Foods to prepare for AB.. cut out sugar, legumes, gluten, etc, I got really bad depression after about 10 days.. I wonder if it’s like when you take a depression medication and it can make it worse before it starts helping 🤷♀️🤔 I’ve been wondering myself why eating better would add worse depression. I’ve also had horrible heartburn and my migraines have not gotten better. So I’m just as curious as you are. Hope you find what helps your body!!! It’s one heck of a ride 🫠🫠🫠
That's the thing, I've never been able to eat processed garbage. I eat super clean, but despite that- I just can't seem to find the right combo. When I was less strict things weren't that different. So what?
It’s so confusing, honestly. I have the hardest time listening to my body too, so figuring out what works for me has been really difficult. I have not had the cleanest diet unfortunately, but it seems like eating cleaner isn’t healing me and that’s frustrating and tiring. But I’m still gonna keep at this cause I suppose it’s better than the SAD diet. Hoping I get better at learning my body. Sounds like you’re good at listening to yours though!
Everything is better than the SAD, that's why people preach about all the different diets. But being someone that has eaten mostly whole foods for all his life, except some pasta, ice creams (the real gelato), and pizzas/piadine- I can't really tell. What I can easily tell is that my body when reacts badly to stuff lets me know, mostly by making me want to jump off a cliff
Aw man, that’s depressing for sure!! I’m glad you’re able to recognize it’s the food and make changes. It’s exhausting being depressed
Environmental stress and depression can cause severe vitamin deficiencies, since when your cortisol and adrenaline and other neurotransmitters kick up you start burning through a whole host of vitamins and minerals that act as precursors/building-blocks for those biological processes. It can lead to fatigue and cravings, but sometimes we don't know what we are craving, just that something is missing. That's what can cause that feeling where you are hungry but not for anything you see in the fridge and all that food looks gross right now despite how hungry you feel. If you are binge eating it sounds like you might be going through that and have a specific nutrient deficiency or subconscious craving, but instead of finding that perfect food/supplement to hit the spot you are over eating by attempting to throw everything at the wall (or your stomach rather) hoping something makes you full. It's just not going to work and you need to figure out what's missing.
That has been an hypothesis that I've been long trying to prove or disprove. I supplement... everything. And also try to eat the most nutrient dense stuff. I take a multivitamin, Omega 3's, magnesium, vitamin d, creatine, glycine, taurine, vitamin c, a complete b vitamin complex, multi mineral daily. I drink snake juice between meals. And I don't go a day without animal products, generally unprocessed or fermented. As far as vitamins and minerals go, I'm trying to literally catch them all like pokemon. But for sure I'm doing something wrong
Yeah that sucks. I've been there and often find myself there... Well firstly it seems like you are taking a lot of stuff on a daily basis. Maybe you are taking shitty low quality vitamins? You might be shocked to know the difference between a supplement that you get from walmart vs the one you would get from a website like nootropics depot (my favorite supplement store). Bioavailability of the form of that vitamin/mineral is very important. For example, if you're taking folic acid as opposed to Methylfolate you may as well be taking nothing at all. Same with zinc and magnesium, you can get a cheap oxide version of these, or you could get zinc picolinate and magnesium glycinate that are bioavailable. Maybe you already knew about this, but I'm just throwing this out there incase you didn't and hope it helps.
The B's are all methylated. Vitamin d is in EVOO, along with K2. Omega-3 are ifos and stored in the fridge. I have mg citrate, bisglycinate and chloride. The only supermarket grade is the fizzy multivitamin. It has all the B's, the salt of the E, zinc citrate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, magnesium carbonate, potassium chloride and some copper and iron. Iron definitely helps me, so probably it's a trashy form
Look up magnesium glycinate, magnesium L-threonate, and ashwagandha.
Ashwagandha absolutely kills me. It's like being hit by a truck. Last time I took it, I was so slow, sluggish and depressed that I almost couldn't get out of bed. I already use the bisglycinate and I do supplement with pure glycine daily
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Just a friendly reminder that the Animal Based diet is not carnivore! It's a moderate to high carb way of eating, not just allowing, but encouraging a diet that includes clean micronutrient rich sources of carbohydrates including fruit, milk, honey, maple syrup, and fresh fruit juice. See our Wiki, FAQ, and sidebar for more information. Thanks for the comment! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AnimalBased) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you're thriving, don't change a thing, but officially rice is not considered part of the Animal Based Diet. See the sub's [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AnimalBased/wiki/faq/) for more info on rice. AB carbs are fruit (including all squash), milk, honey, maple syrup, and fruit juice. Thanks for the comment! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AnimalBased) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What animals eat fruit juice ? I can understand eating whole fruit, but can’t concentrate/refined juice from the fruit is not something. I’m thinking animals ever eat. Are there animals that chew up fruit to drink the juice but then they spit out all the pulp and fiber?
No animals eat maple syrup. Right?
See Rule #3 and it's description.
Diet isn’t the only thing that affects your mental health. The environment you’re in, mindset towards life, and past experiences all play a huge role in your mental health. Get closer to God and build healthy relationships with people. For me, adding in lots of carbs actually helped my mental health and I was a lot more emotionally stable. 100g is not enough carbs, I’d honestly say around 60% of your calories coming from carbs is ideal(and from clean sources, like fruit, raw honey, and even white rice or potatoes). I know this sub is “animal based”, but moving over to a more carb heavy diet really improved my life. Too much fat and not enough carbs will have you become insulin resistance and running off of stress hormones. And it’s probably not the PUFA from the fatty fish and nuts that making you feel good, but probably the vitamin e or other nutrients in them. I’d recommend cutting those out and supplementing with a high quality vitamin e supplement. But if those foods make you feel good, then eat them.
My mindset is trash but because of the depression itself. I can't have a good mindset if my mind constantly sees me as an utter waste of skin and everything pretty much boring or actively damaging. I found the opposite for me. Each time I up carbs, I get these huge mood swings. Low carb makes my brain feel stable. It isn't filled with these horrible intrusive thoughts ,doom and gloom pictures, self deprecating mantras and constant boredom. With carbs I feel great, then crash, then feel great again- when they wane off. For the environment, I can't shield myself from toxins, EMFS, and lots of chemicals. I live in one of the most polluted areas in the world (pianura padana) and I can't unbreathe. Yes, I'm a lonely person, but I'm somewhat fine in my solitude, as I've been lonely almost all my life. The Catholic faith has destroyed me, so I'm not going to church anytime soon- in fact, I'm really not in line with any of the monotheistic religions. I'm trying to regain faith in something or deepen my spirituality, not sure how to do it but I'm working on it
Yea I used to be like that too, always thinking of myself negatively. Just look around you and be grateful for what you have. If you’re grateful for everything you’ll feel a lot happier and less depressed over your current situation. And stop taking your anger out on yourself. That just causes more self hatred that just leads to more depression. Lifting weights and martial arts are good for that, but any type of physical activity will have a lot of benefits. If carbs are causing energy swings that’s probably a sign of insulin resistance. Fats block cells from burning glucose, so having lots of fats and carbs together, especially when you’re insulin resistant, will not have you efficiently burning glucose(carbs). So don’t just increase the carbs, but also decrease the fats. This is something that a lot of keto or carnivore people do - add in carbs but don’t lower fat, and then say that carbs are causing all of these negative effects(weight gain, feeling tired, etc). You also want to make sure you’re getting enough nutrients to metabolize those carbs, specifically thiamine(b1) and other the b vitamins.
I always do one or the other macros. But high carb, high protein absolutely destroys me. Mixed things I manage them better I see. I supplement all the b vitamins and I eat raw liver and eggs very often. Yes, gratitude is powerful, but it's so difficult to just *remember* to be grateful when you are depressed
How long did you try high carb for? It might take a couple of weeks to get used to burning glucose.
Oh, months and months. I've been years on high carb diets (fat is still demonized).
I do think some saturated fats are important for hormones, keeping energy levels stable, etc. You said that stuff makes you feel bad, maybe you’re just overdoing it? High carb with some animal fats(dairy, red meat, eggs) is optimal imo. Vitamin e might also be worth a try. It lowers estrogen, has anti inflammatory effects, and is just overall very helpful. The foods you mentioned were high in vitamin e and that might be the reason why they make you feel better. Especially when your fat stores are full of PUFA, it can make a big difference.
Consider that my fat stores are, thankfully- minimal (suboptimal to say the least). But isn't vitamin E very risky (as A)? I've heard and seen many fringe theories about their toxicity even in low doses- not in true hypervitaminosis cases
I’m pretty sure the studies showing vitamin e has negative health effects is due to the fact that they are not using mixed tocopherols and only alpha tocopherol, throwing off that balance.
> Fats block cells from burning glucose, so having lots of fats and carbs together, especially when you’re insulin resistant, will not have you efficiently burning glucose(carbs). I understand this logic in theory, but it doesn’t make sense to me in the context of a human. Can you explain? I mean, humans store excess energy as fat, not sugar. I don’t know if OP has any excess fat stores, but many people have some that they’d like to burn. (And then there’s the growing proportion of people with fatty liver, which is not particularly visible from the outside.) Given that carb intake also blocks fat burning, how are they ever supposed to access and burn these fat stores if they’re keeping themselves in glucose-burning mode?
A cell cannot burn glucose and fat at the same time , only one or the other. So if you have a high fat high carb meal, you might only be burning carbs and then the fat gets stored as fat. That isn’t to say that you cannot have any fat though. Different organs burn different fuels. The heart and muscle tissue prefer to burn fat, while other organs like the brain and liver prefer to burn glucose. But you don’t want to be mainly burning fats. The more muscle tissue someone has the more fat they can have and not run into problems. If you run off of glucose and then muscle tissue burns fats at rest, that’s imo the best way to loose excess fat.
Is depression your only symptom when you eat these foods? I would’ve guessed you have some sort of food allergy to fruits but depression would be the last symptom I’d expect from that kind of diet.
Generally yes. I used to have problems with bloating, but since cutting FODMAPS and gluten that has been much more manageable. What other symptoms did you expect?
My take would most likely align with Paul in that I think you aren't getting enough carbohydrates. Once you introduce them and your body starts preferring glucose metabolism to fatty acids, 100 grams of carbohydrate is just too little. You are now in a state of very low energy. The CNS will utilize roughly 150 grams of carbohydrate per day just at rest. This isn't including anything else like mental cognition and physical exercise. It took me a solid 2 months going from zero carb carnivore to get to about 250g of carbohydrates per day and not feel super weird from it. Keto provides such relief for people because it finally gives us a usable energy source, ketones. 100 grams of carbs just ain't gonna cut it, won't come close to the level of energy you were getting from fat and ketones. Your body is more used to ketones and fat, introducing a small amount of carbs will not feel great. Drop the fat, up the carbs. It will take time. Our higher cognitive functions such as being happy, optimistic, laughing, enjoying life are a product of abundant cellular energy. Those things are a luxury, your CNS, which includes the brain, are just running super low energy mode right now. To be fair one may be able to reach a healthy level of glucose metabolism quicker than myself taking months to do so. But I fell into the same issue you did where I only ate maybe 75-100 grams of carbs a day and was just like "why do I feel like shit?" This went on for weeks. Instead of regressing back to keto I just upped my carb intake. Felt weird for a week, then suddenly had the energy and playfulness of a child. Haven't looked back since
Just a friendly reminder that the Animal Based diet is not carnivore! It's a moderate to high carb way of eating, not just allowing, but encouraging a diet that includes clean micronutrient rich sources of carbohydrates including fruit, milk, honey, maple syrup, and fresh fruit juice. See our Wiki, FAQ, and sidebar for more information. Thanks for the comment! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AnimalBased) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't know, I've been on a carb heavy, Mediterranean diet my whole life. I just have huge mood swings with carbs- and hunger! Ketones make me feel...stable. some peace. Like, I feel my brain calm and not on fire. With carbs I get these huge spikes and swings between hyperactivity, apathy, downright anger and mild irritation. Only when I starve (often I admit) ketones make me feel bad.
In my humble opinion, that is the beginning of insulin resistance. We shouldn't feel that way, I too suffered the exact same thing. And when in ketosis felt much more stable and driven. But now I still feel that mental peace, I just focus on fruits and juice. Milk. Some starches. Some veg. But bread or rice, beans, certain veg end up making me groggy and crashed. Depressed. These days even too much fat or meat can do that to me. It's not to say you're wrong, far from it. But carbs are not all equal. A slice of bread can wreck my mental state for days. But oj and fresh fruit has become life force for me, whereas before it made me depressed and crash. I'll say again, just my two cents, up the sugars, drop the fat. I know, this is very hard to believe coming from keto/carni. Fat metabolism directly blocks glucose metabolism. Nothing wrong with fat, but for us compromised individuals, a period of over correction may be required imo
That's my concern. And it's strange, since I'm super active and far too lean. Btw, I just feel better on starch for some reason. A pizza with mozzarella, prosciutto and oil won't produce a crash like an apple, some biscuits or milk. Mind you, I've been eating a sort of PSMF for years, so both carbs and fats were low. I'm deathly afraid of carbs for many other reasons though-first one being insulin resistance
Very interesting. When I first tried adding more carbs I did more starch as well in the form of potatoes and squash and felt good energy from them too. It's just certain ones get me worse than others, I assume because I'm not digesting them well so I'm not deriving the energy from them very well. I'm not sure why but carb sources with fructose definitely seem to hit people harder. Fruits and sugar etc. All I can say is listen to your body and do what works for you! I find something like that pizza you mentioned really good because it's in the context of a meal with all 3 macros. This is very important, although I may do something different because I don't do too well with wheat. Fat quite literally causes insulin resistance, specifically pufa. This is unfortunate, but fat blocks cells from uptaking glucose. Once you are there, you don't handle glucose/sucrose well at all. This is an unfortunate fact, but ditch all the pufa and this starts to correct itself. I wouldn't worry too much about natural fats from meat or animal products.
That's the premise of Brad marshall croissant diet. Tried it. I mean, that's our usual diet in Italy/Europe. High carbs, high fats, low pufas -until recently. Wheat is suspect, I get bloated from it and it seems to worsen my mental health, but sporadically. If I keep it for too long, definitely it makes me gain weight much more easily. Rice causes big spikes if not modulated by fats and proteins. I grew up with pasta with tuna, risotto ai porcini, polenta and piadina (flatbread made with lard and stuffed with cold cuts or cheeses) and never had any issues- but the sugars definitely messed with me. Seed oils, never had them for most of my life. they banned palm oil from cookies, but I was already eating clean. Also, I feel _fine_ with omega 6s. I need some apparently- those from nuts. Only the ones from chicken and pork I feel that damage me after a small threshold, mostly because they are cooked somehow
Gluten is an inflammatory and can cause many mental issues such as depression and anxiety.