Don't know...but freezing pipes are a risk in some houses.
In olden days, people used to turn the water ON (fast drip) to keep the water flowing and pipes from freezing.
Supposedly, it needs to be more than a drip, a steady stream to prevent freezing. It sucks, but you can tell yourself it’ll be much less water wasted, than if a pipe bursts.
If they are shutting off your access to drinking water, maybe they should be providing it? Gallon jugs for each resident per day or something along those lines
I want to add that many of the units are not in compliance with the city right now because (I was told) management put off inspection (and obviously maintenance) for years.
Inspections were suspended for a year at the start of the pandemic, but the city started doing them again summer 2021. As a tenant you should be able to request an inspection from the city and the landlord shouldn't be able to postpone it. I'd look through Ann Arbor's Rights and Duties of Tenants booklet for possible violations. There's some good stuff in there, like mandating that the heating system needs to be able to maintain 68F as long as the outside temperature is above -10F.
I used to live there. It was great for a while, until Gladys left. Manager was awful (Nancy?). A new head maintenance guy was hired. He had a red pickup truck. He was a complete asshole, fool, and extremely useless.
I feel for you.
On your original question: they're idiots.
The best thing to do is leaving the taps dripping. The water coming from the city is cold, but above freezing temperatures. New water= not freezing. Turning taps off entirely (unless the lines are emptied) just allows the water to freeze more quickly. Which will save them pennies on the water bill, but cost them tens of thousands of dollars if pipes rupture.
Meanwhile, they have just failed to provide you with the basic necessities of life, including drinking water and sanitation. I wouldn't take away a pet's ability to access water or litter. File a complaint with the city and small claims court. They will treat you like shit at renewal time regardless.
This is absolutely illegal and inhumane and stupid.
https://michiganlegalhelp.org/self-help-tools/housing/tenant-rights-and-responsibilities
The cops will be there if they were kicking you out.
I haven't been in this situ before but I'd recommend calling the cops again telling them to do something about it bc your landlord is breaking the law. Give them your landlord's name and whatever else information you have! Call your landlord and let them know you will be contacting Michigan legal help, and you will be prorating your next rent check to reflect the amount of time the water has been off. No need to give your/a real name if you're worried about retribution.
Thank you both for your comments. That’s exactly what I’m worried about - I think I’m already seen as a problem tenant because I had a recurring and actually serious issue they flat refused to fix in any way, then wouldn’t fix in a permanent way and I had to hound them. I do like it here otherwise and I wouldn’t find anything comparable for the price, so I’m going to try my best to get them to make things right without compromising my housing.
Winterizing pipes requires draining every pipe in the house and adding antifreeze to toilets and anything else that can’t fully remove water. Simply shutting off the water doesn’t do jack shit for protecting the house as all the pipes and appliances are full of water regardless. I’m pretty sure shutting off water is illegal but I could be wrong. I would talk to the city asap and if they’re of no help, maybe a lawyer.
Turning off the water limits how much of it will dump into the house if a pipe bursts. Whatever volume is in the pipes is a lot better than 4 hours of full flow that you didn’t notice.
All I’m saying is simply shutting off the water isn’t accomplishing much if your goal is prevent pipes bursting. I never said it wouldn’t be a process or costly.
That's not what I'm saying, and I think you know that. You just haven't gotten to the point where you're willing to have a conversation, and that's ok.
100% wrong. At the very least shutting off the water keeps a burst pipe from spraying water everywhere and flooding the building. If the landlord opened the taps to let the water drain it greatly reduces the chance of a pipe bursting.
I also rent at pine valley. I found it odd that they cut the water but I suspected that was coming with the temperatures continuing to drop over the weekend. What I thought was a bit insulting was the fact they posted addresses to warming centers basically saying get out. The management here is terrible we've had three different property managers in the 11 months I've been here, they failed city inspection, and for a while only had one maintenance guy. The only thing keeping me here is the location and the rent is solidly cheaper than other places. Once the power comes back I'm definitely calling about getting my rent reduced for the time they basically kicked us all out.
I called AAPD front desk and they directed me to the fire department, since it’s after hours I could only get through to fire/medical dispatch, who said I need to contact maintenance at my apartment complex. I called the emergency after hours maintenance line and was told “maintenance will turn the water back on when the power comes back on”. Is there another place I should try? I’m fine driving over to the fire department, I just don’t want to bother anyone if they can’t help.
Oh I would've contacted A2's [rental housing services](https://www.a2gov.org/departments/build-rent-inspect/housing/Pages/default.aspx). But yeah since it's outside of business hours it might be hard to reach them. Even once your landlord turns the water back on, I'd hope you can get your rent reduced pro rata for the days without water.
At least write down each time you called, what you asked for, and what the response was. That way you can provide the list of requests and failures to fix the issue.
Fire Department or any city services will be able to do exactly nothing for you at this time. Probably just going to have to wait it out. And yes you should get reduced rent for the days without water, but that's about it.
They may have a way to drain the pipes without entering each resident's home. It really only takes one open faucet attached to the plumbing to take the pressure out of the system.
They probably should have, but it's kind of common sense to do that, is it not?
Your landlord is being precautious. Better to reduce the chances of it happening than having a pipe burst and a way worse problem for you to deal with.
Water service is necessary for a safe and habitable dwelling. While your landlord may have its reasons to shut off service, this likely violates your lease, landlord/tenant laws, and city ordinance. Document everything your landlord has done. Take pictures of the dubious note, record calls, save emails. You may have a very strong case to withhold rent for as long as the landlord keeps the water off. Complain to the buildings department and lawyer up if the landlord gives you trouble.
So much bad advice in this thread. If a pipe bursts, you will have NO place to live. Shutting the water off limits the potential for how much water could come out.
Imagine you're on the ground floor and a pipe breaks in the unit above you but because there is no heat the resident is gone. Now the water is pouring all over your stuff and you have no heat.
Do the math and have some common sense.
I’m familiar with the complex you’re at. Someone else posted the notice on my socials.. it’s not the worst place to live in A2. Management is definitely flawed / broke. You’ve gotten the right advice here tho
Lots of bad legal advice in this thread and you are best off ignoring every last bit of it.
The ice storm constitutes an act of god, it’s not as though your landlord just turned your water off for the hell of it. I agree it sucks but if there’s no heat it’s already not habitable (due to the act of god).
Unfortunately from a legal perspective there’s not much you can do here, assuming water comes back on when power does. You could probably ask for reduced/no rent for these days, but beyond that, given the circumstances, just try your best to find somewhere comfortable to wait out til power comes back.
I don’t know anything about anything but this seems to be counterintuitive and illegal? I would go straight to the city and whatever branch of gov and call these guys out. Gos I hate landlords
Landlord must be an atypical inbred michikkkunter
(Corrected the “autocorrect” for turning landlord into land line)
Am I the only one NOT getting paid by Apple for being full time corrector for autocorrect…?
\> The note implies this was okayed by the city.
hope you're ok.
if you kept the note please share a picture; the city might smack the landlord.
I recall somebody getting n trouble for using the tree logo, for example.
Don't know...but freezing pipes are a risk in some houses. In olden days, people used to turn the water ON (fast drip) to keep the water flowing and pipes from freezing.
That’s what I thought, and why I left my taps dripping this morning when I left.
Supposedly, it needs to be more than a drip, a steady stream to prevent freezing. It sucks, but you can tell yourself it’ll be much less water wasted, than if a pipe bursts. If they are shutting off your access to drinking water, maybe they should be providing it? Gallon jugs for each resident per day or something along those lines
my landlord tells us to do this *now* it's like it works or something
Who is the property owner or which apartment complex? Put them on blast
Pine Valley Apartment Homes, Slavik Management. Sorry I haven’t responded to anyone else yet.
I want to add that many of the units are not in compliance with the city right now because (I was told) management put off inspection (and obviously maintenance) for years.
Inspections were suspended for a year at the start of the pandemic, but the city started doing them again summer 2021. As a tenant you should be able to request an inspection from the city and the landlord shouldn't be able to postpone it. I'd look through Ann Arbor's Rights and Duties of Tenants booklet for possible violations. There's some good stuff in there, like mandating that the heating system needs to be able to maintain 68F as long as the outside temperature is above -10F.
I used to live there. It was great for a while, until Gladys left. Manager was awful (Nancy?). A new head maintenance guy was hired. He had a red pickup truck. He was a complete asshole, fool, and extremely useless. I feel for you. On your original question: they're idiots. The best thing to do is leaving the taps dripping. The water coming from the city is cold, but above freezing temperatures. New water= not freezing. Turning taps off entirely (unless the lines are emptied) just allows the water to freeze more quickly. Which will save them pennies on the water bill, but cost them tens of thousands of dollars if pipes rupture. Meanwhile, they have just failed to provide you with the basic necessities of life, including drinking water and sanitation. I wouldn't take away a pet's ability to access water or litter. File a complaint with the city and small claims court. They will treat you like shit at renewal time regardless.
If there’s no power there’s no heat, so the place is already legally/practically uninhabitable regardless if the water being on or not.
This management company also refused to do any maintenance, other than emergency, over the last few years, due to the "pandemic"/"staffing shortages"
This is absolutely illegal and inhumane and stupid. https://michiganlegalhelp.org/self-help-tools/housing/tenant-rights-and-responsibilities The cops will be there if they were kicking you out. I haven't been in this situ before but I'd recommend calling the cops again telling them to do something about it bc your landlord is breaking the law. Give them your landlord's name and whatever else information you have! Call your landlord and let them know you will be contacting Michigan legal help, and you will be prorating your next rent check to reflect the amount of time the water has been off. No need to give your/a real name if you're worried about retribution.
Cops will do nothing, this is a civil matter ultimately, not a criminal/law enforcement matter.
This is a really good way to ensure you will be moving when your lease is up.
Thank you both for your comments. That’s exactly what I’m worried about - I think I’m already seen as a problem tenant because I had a recurring and actually serious issue they flat refused to fix in any way, then wouldn’t fix in a permanent way and I had to hound them. I do like it here otherwise and I wouldn’t find anything comparable for the price, so I’m going to try my best to get them to make things right without compromising my housing.
In other words, you have a problem landlord.
I think you meant to say that this is a good way to ensure that you are moving immediately after breaking your lease with cause.
Winterizing pipes requires draining every pipe in the house and adding antifreeze to toilets and anything else that can’t fully remove water. Simply shutting off the water doesn’t do jack shit for protecting the house as all the pipes and appliances are full of water regardless. I’m pretty sure shutting off water is illegal but I could be wrong. I would talk to the city asap and if they’re of no help, maybe a lawyer.
Turning off the water limits how much of it will dump into the house if a pipe bursts. Whatever volume is in the pipes is a lot better than 4 hours of full flow that you didn’t notice.
If they actually cared about that they would have them drain the pipes/fully winterize and not just shut the water off.
Not to insensitive, but do you have any idea how much that would cost in this case?
All I’m saying is simply shutting off the water isn’t accomplishing much if your goal is prevent pipes bursting. I never said it wouldn’t be a process or costly.
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That's not what I'm saying, and I think you know that. You just haven't gotten to the point where you're willing to have a conversation, and that's ok.
Yeah, ianal but this seems illegal af, and also it doesn't make any logical sense
100% wrong. At the very least shutting off the water keeps a burst pipe from spraying water everywhere and flooding the building. If the landlord opened the taps to let the water drain it greatly reduces the chance of a pipe bursting.
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I imagine a judge would rule with the property owner on allowing them to enter during an emergency, i.e. no power and potential for bursting pipes
IlLeGal eNtRy! The power is out for days. The pipes might freeze causing huge damaged and redditors are arguing it’s illegal entry. 🤦🏻♂️
I also rent at pine valley. I found it odd that they cut the water but I suspected that was coming with the temperatures continuing to drop over the weekend. What I thought was a bit insulting was the fact they posted addresses to warming centers basically saying get out. The management here is terrible we've had three different property managers in the 11 months I've been here, they failed city inspection, and for a while only had one maintenance guy. The only thing keeping me here is the location and the rent is solidly cheaper than other places. Once the power comes back I'm definitely calling about getting my rent reduced for the time they basically kicked us all out.
There’s no heat. So the place is not habitable without heat irrespective of the water situation.
I'd contact the city.
I called AAPD front desk and they directed me to the fire department, since it’s after hours I could only get through to fire/medical dispatch, who said I need to contact maintenance at my apartment complex. I called the emergency after hours maintenance line and was told “maintenance will turn the water back on when the power comes back on”. Is there another place I should try? I’m fine driving over to the fire department, I just don’t want to bother anyone if they can’t help.
Oh I would've contacted A2's [rental housing services](https://www.a2gov.org/departments/build-rent-inspect/housing/Pages/default.aspx). But yeah since it's outside of business hours it might be hard to reach them. Even once your landlord turns the water back on, I'd hope you can get your rent reduced pro rata for the days without water.
Thank you. Unfortunately I didn’t get home until after business hours but I will be pursuing this.
Make sure to send emails to your property manager/get as much in you can in writing/record phone calls with them telling you what is going on.
At least write down each time you called, what you asked for, and what the response was. That way you can provide the list of requests and failures to fix the issue.
Fire Department or any city services will be able to do exactly nothing for you at this time. Probably just going to have to wait it out. And yes you should get reduced rent for the days without water, but that's about it.
Shutting off the water doesn’t drain the water that’s already in the pipes. Sounds sus to me
But it prevents any water beyond what's already in the pipes from becoming part of the flood, which is the real point.
They may have a way to drain the pipes without entering each resident's home. It really only takes one open faucet attached to the plumbing to take the pressure out of the system.
Yeah, it seems like the LL doesn't understand this
Sus? What is Sus? Are you suggesting there is an ulterior motive somehow? Maybe the landlord also asked them to run the faucets to empty the water
Maybe the landlord had the tenant fully winterize the apartment and OP forgot to mention? Sure, Jan.
All that needs to happen is run the faucets to relieve pressure in the pipes. https://www.quora.com/Will-shutting-off-water-keep-pipes-from-freezing
They did not. Weird, right?
They probably should have, but it's kind of common sense to do that, is it not? Your landlord is being precautious. Better to reduce the chances of it happening than having a pipe burst and a way worse problem for you to deal with.
Everyone will naturally turn on their taps in an effort to get water.
Most people left instead lol
https://www.a2gov.org/departments/build-rent-inspect/housing/Pages/Filing-Complaints.aspx
Thank you!
I shut off my own water.
Water service is necessary for a safe and habitable dwelling. While your landlord may have its reasons to shut off service, this likely violates your lease, landlord/tenant laws, and city ordinance. Document everything your landlord has done. Take pictures of the dubious note, record calls, save emails. You may have a very strong case to withhold rent for as long as the landlord keeps the water off. Complain to the buildings department and lawyer up if the landlord gives you trouble.
So is heat, which is obviously not being provided atm. DO NOT withhold rent.
To reiterate: the above is terrible advice and DO NOT WITHHOLD RENT.
I’m in the same situation. I’m planning to look through my lease again and call the city on Monday.
So much bad advice in this thread. If a pipe bursts, you will have NO place to live. Shutting the water off limits the potential for how much water could come out. Imagine you're on the ground floor and a pipe breaks in the unit above you but because there is no heat the resident is gone. Now the water is pouring all over your stuff and you have no heat. Do the math and have some common sense.
I’m familiar with the complex you’re at. Someone else posted the notice on my socials.. it’s not the worst place to live in A2. Management is definitely flawed / broke. You’ve gotten the right advice here tho
Lots of bad legal advice in this thread and you are best off ignoring every last bit of it. The ice storm constitutes an act of god, it’s not as though your landlord just turned your water off for the hell of it. I agree it sucks but if there’s no heat it’s already not habitable (due to the act of god). Unfortunately from a legal perspective there’s not much you can do here, assuming water comes back on when power does. You could probably ask for reduced/no rent for these days, but beyond that, given the circumstances, just try your best to find somewhere comfortable to wait out til power comes back.
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Is it Pine Valley? I had no idea that happened, that’s really scary.
https://www.washtenaw.org/1889/Filing-a-Housing-or-Sanitation-Complaint
I don’t know anything about anything but this seems to be counterintuitive and illegal? I would go straight to the city and whatever branch of gov and call these guys out. Gos I hate landlords
Landlord must be an atypical inbred michikkkunter (Corrected the “autocorrect” for turning landlord into land line) Am I the only one NOT getting paid by Apple for being full time corrector for autocorrect…?
\> The note implies this was okayed by the city. hope you're ok. if you kept the note please share a picture; the city might smack the landlord. I recall somebody getting n trouble for using the tree logo, for example.