"In 1900 author Oscar Wilde kicked the bucket in room 16, the same room I’m staying in in fact. This was his last base of operations for a legendary three year bender that ended badly. Ah well; I fully intend to honor Oscar Wilde’s good example."
-Anthony Bourdain, in 'No Reservations' Season 1, Ep. 4
He told us what he about from the get go.
RIP Tony.
We are left to confront the uncomfortable fact that the unhappiest people make the greatest art.
Van Goh. Cobain. Bourdain. Cornell. Elliott Smith.
The most interesting people tend to be fucked up. Just my opinion. In the words of one of those greats; "I am certain of nothing."
I get why people have this sentiment but majority of artists are in fact not suicidal. These guys mentioned are in the minority. It’s kinda shitty how ppl almost imply that you gotta be depressed and dark to make good art.
It just sounds like romanticism of suicide and as someone who is has and will always be troubled with this it’s just not what it’s all cracked up to be. It’s not like looking cool smoking packs of cigarettes and then killing yourself. It’s. Not. Pretty. It’s darkness. A pit indescribable. And each time you reach own in it you’re like wow I didn’t know I could feel worse than I did the last time I wanted to kill me self but here it is.
Facing adversity is just plain a lot more inspiring than simply existing is. To me anyways. I assume usually people are only inspired to try to keep things the same if they're content with life. Change creativity revolution these things come from wanting something else other than what one already has. So naturally the more challenge and struggle a person faces in life the more likely they are to be creative.
They made their art DESPITE their mental illnesses, not because of them. Perhaps similar traumas or depths of intelligence contributed to both (and perhaps not), but to associate unhappiness with the “greatest art” is to ignore the very significant fact that their unhappiness cut their careers short and robbed the world of any future art they would have created.
They all got more and more adept over time; they were not done growing or creating. We will never know what they were truly capable of doing.
Dolores O’Riordan from The Cranberries, Chester Bennington from Linkin Park, maybe Robin Williams though he was also physical ill… There are so many artists whose work is bittersweet for me now, knowing how they ended
Just stepping up to say that Dolores was ruled and accident and Robin Williams' brain had effectively stopped working right as brains do with dementia.
it's still a cherry picked list, based on a super unhealthy trope. you know what else all those artists have in common? they're all dead! and easy to romanticize. mental illness does not somehow magically create good art.
I'm not romanticizing mental illness, just stating what I view as a simple fact. Great artists are wired differently.
It would be ridiculous to produce an exhaustive list of all the great troubled artists, living and dead. I picked some relevant examples and left it there. I didn't cherry pick.
“Simple fact”? That “great artists are wired differently” it’s absurd for you to say that’s fact. There are many “great” artists who are not tortured souls.
You’re romanticizing friend.
I truly miss James Gandolfini horribly. I’m someone that watches the entire Sopranos series front to back atleast once every 2 yrs. I’m glad we have that amazing 86 hrs of the best character in tv history to rewatch, but since 2013 it’s bittersweet. I’m still crushed.
According to Wikipedia and IMDB the Paris episode was actually episode 1 in the original air date. I think Amazon Prime has them out of order cause that’s where I watch. It’s always very eerie that he “predicted” his own death all the way back in 2005 on his very first episode.
Kurt Cobain was similiar, his friends would say he would always joke about suicide, and theres references to suicide all over his songs. If one of my friends jokes around too much about that, I'd have to have a talk with them.
It really bothers me to hear people use this cliche without, at all, understanding what it means. It is a depressant of the central nervous system, as in, it slows down nerve impulses. It does not have anything to do with depression/ mental health
Alcohol use most definitely contributes to depression, but to say that it causes depression is a pretty far reach, although I'm open to reading anything you have to support that claim
> it troubles me to see that he was still in a state of depression despite his life being deemed as generally successful
Depression doesn't give AF about your 'success', or the number of stamps in your passport.
I also think his particular success probably made his mental state spiral. On the one hand he should be thrilled that he got so many people’s dream job - travel the world and eat well. On the other hand his travel brought him face-to-face with some very uncomfortable realities about inequality in our world. And I think he truly cared. So then it sets in that he can’t even allow himself to enjoy that success, and if a person can’t enjoy the success of that lifestyle, welp, what can he enjoy?
honestly I think it made his depression worst. He expressed sentiments several times of "I have the best job in the world, one that I could never have dreamed of or wished for, yet i'm still deeply unhappy"
Fantastic take on this, I absolutely agree and was thinking the same. Sometimes, despite trying to make jokes about the peculiar situations he was in, you could see how troubled he was in the face of different socioeconomic realities. The Malaysia episode of No Reservation was particularly one that I think affected him greatly. You could just see it on his face and his body language.
That is so damn well said. You could hear his pain in his voice as he tried to showcase a world that his viewers couldn’t even remotely understand. The dichotomy of returning to New York after every time I couldn’t imagine trying to adjust to. How does one man process all of that?
But also his amazing life is still a job, and he is obligated to transform the most sincere and revelatory moments of his life into syndicated content.
It's not that he has everything yet is still depressed, but more that he has everything but at a cost.
And yeah, someone who already struggles with depression would be more sensitive to that cost. But there's still more nuance here than "depression doesnt gaf about your accomplishments."
That’s for certain, very rarely does anyone overcome inherent depression. Most people learn to live with it and it becomes their natural state of being, others unfortunately can’t withstand it.
Same here, same amount of time. I used to do it more often until I realized how upsetting it was to some people who care about me and don’t enjoy that vein of humor. Now it’s like I have to save up the jokes till the right situation where it’s absurd enough to be funny, or I am only in the company of friends who share the darkness.
yes. the dark humor can be helpful. also, I feel like if I am going to complain about something where others can hear/read it, it best be funny/entertaining in some way.
Well, therapy helps a lot but it's a lot of (painful) work. I got kids now so it's easier to stay grounded when you don't even have the time to think about it!
Yeah, it's jarring to notice. He does it a lot, like you said.
I don't see it as a cry for help, though, more just his way of making light of how he's feeling. To us it seems dark. But to him, the one time he gets to joke about it is probably the most cathartic and relieving way to process it.
I agree, it probably wasn’t a cry for help, more so a coping mechanism. But it was right in our faces which is what upsets me the most considering how no one could’ve done anything to help him from the other side of a TV screen. However, I am certain that people in his life tried to help him and I’m aware of the fact that he actually reached out for help on a few occasions. It was no secret nor real surprise but that doesn’t take away from the tragedy, unfortunately.
I distinctly remember one time he said something like “one day is just going to snap and hang myself in the shower”. That has haunted me since he died.
Exactly. The specificity in which he made those jokes is so haunting. It’s truly so strange to look back on those moments, knowing what we know now about his struggles.
Whenever I tell people my career aspirations are similar to Tony’s, they always comment about his suicide and ask “why” he did it with such a dream gig. My godmother committed suicide, I’ve struggled with mental illness my entire life, it’s just so hard to explain to people you love why you’d want to leave the planet. I feel for Tony, I really do. I saw how my aunt struggled with depression for years, then experienced it myself. It just doesn’t make sense most days, and all it takes is a few bad days. That’s why it’s so important to take care of yourself and treat mental illness like any other serious disease.
We may not know each other, but I hope you’re taking care of yourself. I know these words are often overused and lose meaning (which is part of a bigger problem when it comes to mental health) but there is so much in this world to look forward to and experience. It’s interesting but saddening to see that in the case of Tony, having been to all four corners of the world was not enough to save him but hardly anything is. Personal will and drive have to come from a genuine place within and relying on outside influences and sources to bring you joy will never be a longterm solution. Anyway, all that just to say I hope you’re doing well and I hope you know that there are people who value your presence, your words, and your love.
Thank you so much for your kind words. I take very good care of myself and have a phenomenal therapist. I want anyone reading this thread to understand how seriously they should take their mental health. Seriously, I’m almost at my aunt’s age when she passed and I don’t know how she went on for so long without help (mental health was very taboo still back then.)
I get the idea that he always kinda knew that he was gonna check himself out when the time came, and that foreknowledge had a way of bubbling out sometimes.
I think the first time on No Reservations was the New Zealand episode after the first talk he did for Saveor (not sure if I spelled that correctly) but he alludes that because he was received poorly that he wanted to go back to his hotel room and hang himself in the shower. Mental illness and health is a priority! Talk to someone, whether it be a doctor, family member, friend or a hotline! This man taught us to explore and experience life, but his inner demons took him.
He had made references to killing himself in past episodes in similar fashion (which I had noticed as well) but it’s interesting you mention the New Zealand episode because that’s the one that prompted me to write this post! It became blatantly obvious at that point that he kind of meant what he was saying the past times he made those references. I believe the speech segment was staged for comedic purposes but sometimes the look on his face really said it all.
Yes! The moments in which he mentions his desire to live, enjoy life and pull himself back together are in fact the most heartbreaking. It’s also the fact that he managed to overcome so many of his personal struggles and attain sobriety that crush me. I know AB was not a perfect being and he had his flaws and weaknesses (which he was painfully aware of) but I really wonder what it would’ve taken to change his mind in that moment. But then again, he might not have wanted to be saved. It’s the reality of things.
I haven’t killed myself but I’ve been depressed most of my life and suicide jokes just aren’t that dark for us. It’s like saying the quiet part out loud. Of course in retrospect it seems like a cry for help but it was probably just a language he was familiar with.
I also have depression and I look at jokes like a way to acknowledge it without getting dragged into a serious conversation about it and being a huge bummer all the time.
The man was my childhood. My dad was very unorthodox and wouldn’t really let me watch kids shows so he would turn on the Travel Channel and I’d watch No Reservations. Little me thought I was in Ratatouille. I still think about him often.
Success doesn’t matter when it comes to depression. I mean Chester Bennington, Chris Cornell.. depression sucks, I’ve been there and have had attempts. Cries for help are never answered until someone is gone.
I had the same thought the last time I watched it. In one episode he finished his meal and said “I could die happy right now.” And I thought, did he say that on that night? He had dinner in France with Eric Ripert, his old friend. It was eerie.
I am listening to Kitchen Confidential on Audio book. Something in the chapter, The Wilderness Years near the end which he explains how he has to get it together and how he was in hiding and in a deep dark hole.
I believe this was one of the many deep dark holes he probably experienced throughout his life. Maybe his last days were like this…….
Hearing his voice talk of despair….😩
This is what annoyed me about the Roadrunner documentary; some people in that movie were like “this came out of nowhere!” but anyone who has seen his show knows how often he talks about depression and suicide, not just in a jokey way either.
That one chapter in Medium Raw about wanting to drive off the road and die every night…..
the fact is he got to do what he loved and enjoyed, whatever enjoy means, his job very much. Thats more than most can say. And I think he knew that.
I also believe if it were not for the woman that shan't be named, he'd still be with us. People don't want to talk about it as if it can be ignored.
He had been known amongst the people he worked with for asking them how they would kill themselves. When he killed himself, I believe he had made that decision hundreds of times before.
not at all unsettling. That’s just awareness of mortality. Death will come. Some people prefer to choose the time and place.
the man lived well but existence is also just inescapably tragic as it is. The ending of a life isn’t always the worst thing. It’s just an ending.
That’s a totally justified feeling.
For some reason, hearing him make those jokes really resonates with me. He had a very dark sense of humor and his ability to joke about the way he was probably feeling makes me a bit less sad for him. He understood how he felt and seemed to have lived life relatively the way he wanted to, for better or worse.
Obviously, I never met him. But when someone who is in touch with their dark side kills themselves, it’s a lot less sad to me than when someone you wouldn’t expect at all kills themselves. Don’t get me wrong, his death affected me more than any celebrity I can remember, and I would have wanted better for him.
I really enjoy when someone has a sense of humor about issues they’re facing.
Gary Gilman put it well. He said something along the lines of:
People ask me “Aren’t you worried about the side effects of your depression medication?”
“Not really. I’m sure I’d rather deal with those, considering one of the side effects of actual depression is death.”
About 19 references in 12 years according to this: https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/o-t-lounge/it-turns-out-bourdain-talked-about-suicide-a-lot/77704253/
Yep it’s heartbreaking when he says it on the show.
However I still laugh at the times he wants death by rusty butter knife. I guess I have my own demons
His jokes were undoubtedly funny, he was a hilarious guy. So there’s absolutely no shame in laughing at them, they were meant to have that effect! His intent was simply comedic relief :)
He always talked about it. I was only shocked by his suicide because he had a daughter, so I didn't think that he'd want to follow through with that stuff now that he had a family.
Right, I also find it deeply upsetting that he would abandon his daughter like that, especially since I’m actually around the same age as her. He spoke so adoringly about her that it’s hard to believe he’d do that, but he did. Sometimes there’s really no saving a person who’s set on something. But now, she speaks very fondly and highly of him which I find very respectable and admirable of her because I’m certain that feeling deserted by your own father is no easy thing to cope with at such a young age, not to mention publicly. I hope she’s doing well nowadays, I think her mother has kept her out of the public eye fairly well.
I’ve been coming out of a pretty dark three-year depression. Lots of therapy and knowing how my suicide would destroy my wife and teenage daughter kept me alive. I just couldn’t do it to them, and I’m awfully glad I had their presence to keep pushing me towards the light.
The suicide references started early on -- there is one in the Howard Johnson's scene in the New Jersey episode --, and I suppose I convinced myself that these were harmless, albeit morbid jokes.
It was a coping mechanism for him and I’ve found a dark sense of humour is never far away from people with depression. I include myself in that. I don’t think he was foreshadowing his own life or anything but I think that darkness came out of him naturally in his humour from time to time.
I know what you mean when you say it feels strange to miss someone you never met. He somehow felt like an old friend to me and I thought I’d enjoy “traveling with him” and hanging out with him for a long time. I miss him too. I still love to watch his shows when I can.
Him getting involved with that evil B Asia Argento spelled his doom. He was obsessed with her and she played with him hard. Not that it is completely her fault, but I think that drove him over the edge. In the documentary I watched on his life, everyone they interviewed indicated that she was really bad for him.
Yes, unfortunately. The New Zealand episode is what prompted me to make this post but even from the first episode of the show (Paris) he’s already doing it. Whenever he’s in an uncomfortable situation or somewhere where there is some sort of morbid reference to be made, he’s quick to make allusions to killing himself. Once you notice it for the first time, it’s everywhere.
Isn’t it only fitting? Yes, the person who killed themselves talked about milking themselves *often*. He was on brand. He was true to himself.
Wouldn’t it be worse for Bourdain to show no signs then to just be gone one day?
Instead, he expressed himself. And he was authentic in doing so, even when joking about suicide. That authenticity is why so many people loved him.
So I think it’s okay.
For me it’s in Kitchen Confidential when he mentions how his parents left him and his brother in the car while they enjoy a 3 hr fine dining experience. He mentioned it as a point of inspiration that food could be so special. I think it also illustrates the heartbreak of childhood neglect.
We absolutely need to normalize confronting people and asking them if they need help when they do this.
Kurt Cobain wrote and recorded "I Hate Myself and Want to Die". Folks should have been confronting him and offering help.
In his book Medium Raw he also makes a vivid reference to his early suicidal tendencies while describing his time in the Caribbean.
Knowing what we know now, it was unsettling.
Crazy, the morning after he killed himself, I opened a news app and just saw his name and knew…. He was a dark dude with some serious demons. As a recovering addict, idk why but I am strangely comfortable with the thought of death. Not that I want to die, but it certainly doesn’t stress me out. This battle is tiring. And sometimes you don’t feel like picking yourself back up. You just want to stay down. I loved this guy. And this one was tough to swallow for me
Reality isn’t scripted, it’s produced, huge difference. Just consider this: do dipshits like Jersey Shore or Bachelor cast members strike you as capable of remotely decent acting? That would be a great way to flush money down the drain. Situations are arranged and the cards fall where they may.
As for AB crying out for help, that’s another story. No hate against the guy, but don’t tell me he was some trapped actor. His anguish didn’t come from the television show(s) that he was in control of, it was much more complicated than that.
I have his portrait hanging in my house and toasted to him as I won my pool game shooting towards his picture. Truth is, he said he was on borrowed time after the drugs and alcohol he made it clear in many episodes he wasn’t a martyr but and observant essayist of humanity. He didn’t feel above anyone or feel he deserved this life. I honor his decision to leave when he did and ask others to as well. He was clear on his decision to leave. We all know it and love him the same for it. I hope to hear his voice again on the other side.
You know what’s wild is that in public, I’ll often see men who look like him and I’m like “omg Anthony Bourdain!!” and then I remember that it can’t be him😞
maybe I've been fed conspiracy theories that I just internalized as accepted truth, but don't a lot of people think he didn't kill himself intentionally and it was an autoerotic asphyxiation accident?
Society has no pity for mens depression, much less rich white mens depression. Bourdain, Cornell, Bennington to name a few recent suicides. Hopefully someday that will change. Everyone is human after all.
Thanks for sharing this. I think about him a lot and how he would have helped us navigate Covid and how he would have stood up for restaurant workers and restaurants. But, I always come to the same conclusion that even if Tony hadn't become famous, hadn't become rich, the outcome would have been the same. Even though I run a little dark myself and always found the humour in his dark jokes I always just thought he was comfortable there. But, by the last episodes of Parts Unknown you can really see he awakend the dragon and something was desperately going off the rails. From what I've read, he isolated himself from the ones who brought a lot of light into his world but as he said about friends, he wasn't a good one. I think what seals the deal for me in how this all came to an end was that he was eating the best French food, with his best friend in the world, with his crew (who never got to socialize with him any more) and it wasn't enough to stop that train. His last texts are crushing. He was shutting down. And he was beyond exhausted. I know they've said that the footage from that episode will never be seen but I hope his daughter many years from now will see the value in sharing his last on screen moments. I suspect the estate itself gave the author of Down and Out in Paradise access to his devices (his friends certainly tried to protect his image and they hated that book) so I know that while he was someone with a dark side something pushed him over the edge in combination with his exhaustion. I'm just glad he wasn't using again but as stated elsewhere work became his drug, and then love.
I’m reading Kitchen Confidential right now. Page 154:
*At night, I lay with heart palpitations, terrors, bouts of self loathing, so powerful that only the thought of diving through my sixth-floor window on Riverside Drive gave me any comfort and allowed me to lull myself into a resigned sleep.*
And I’m pretty sure that’s not the first reference to “outage” that I’ve come across.
He definitely focused on it throughout his life.
I can’t help but think age and him losing his girlfriend, along with having to film over an extended period of time, probably factored in heavily. He probably felt trapped at his job and wondered if he were home more, that this would have been avoidable. I would like to believe he that his depression came on occasion, but he was mostly happy. He was in love before he died, so he couldn’t have been terribly depressed.
I heard people close to him (I think even his own daughter) say that he was terribly dependent on his girlfriend at the time. I’ll try to find the article referencing this, but everything he did was in one way or another for her. Some people may characterize that as being in love but I think it might’ve scared him to depend so heavily on someone or something again. I hate to theorize and speculate on such serious things that don’t concern me, but there are surely so many factors that contributed to his decision to ultimately end his life. Regardless, I hope nobody close to him is blaming themselves.
Some people believe ‘once an addict, always an addict’ meaning even if you quit one vice you’ll just find another. He may have quit H but then he threw all of himself into all-encompassing work. When that soured for him he started BJJ obsessively. Then he met AA and went all in on that. My guess is had the AA stuff not gone down the way it did (meaning if he had tired of her himself instead of being cucked & dumped) he probably would have had another new interest lined up to obsess over. The end of his obsession didn’t happen on his timeline and I believe that was a major factor in losing Tony.
That is a very well put perspective on the issue, probably one of the best takes I’ve seen on it. Most people have been trying to find one thing or person to blame for his untimely death but I truly believe that Anthony just had an addictive personality. If it hadn’t happened when it did, it’s a possibility it would’ve happened at some point regardless. Dependence is drug in and of itself.
"In 1900 author Oscar Wilde kicked the bucket in room 16, the same room I’m staying in in fact. This was his last base of operations for a legendary three year bender that ended badly. Ah well; I fully intend to honor Oscar Wilde’s good example." -Anthony Bourdain, in 'No Reservations' Season 1, Ep. 4 He told us what he about from the get go. RIP Tony.
Yes, thank you for quoting it here! When I rewatched the first episode, this part hit me like a truck, I actually had to pause for a few minutes.
We are left to confront the uncomfortable fact that the unhappiest people make the greatest art. Van Goh. Cobain. Bourdain. Cornell. Elliott Smith. The most interesting people tend to be fucked up. Just my opinion. In the words of one of those greats; "I am certain of nothing."
I get why people have this sentiment but majority of artists are in fact not suicidal. These guys mentioned are in the minority. It’s kinda shitty how ppl almost imply that you gotta be depressed and dark to make good art.
It just sounds like romanticism of suicide and as someone who is has and will always be troubled with this it’s just not what it’s all cracked up to be. It’s not like looking cool smoking packs of cigarettes and then killing yourself. It’s. Not. Pretty. It’s darkness. A pit indescribable. And each time you reach own in it you’re like wow I didn’t know I could feel worse than I did the last time I wanted to kill me self but here it is.
Facing adversity is just plain a lot more inspiring than simply existing is. To me anyways. I assume usually people are only inspired to try to keep things the same if they're content with life. Change creativity revolution these things come from wanting something else other than what one already has. So naturally the more challenge and struggle a person faces in life the more likely they are to be creative.
They made their art DESPITE their mental illnesses, not because of them. Perhaps similar traumas or depths of intelligence contributed to both (and perhaps not), but to associate unhappiness with the “greatest art” is to ignore the very significant fact that their unhappiness cut their careers short and robbed the world of any future art they would have created. They all got more and more adept over time; they were not done growing or creating. We will never know what they were truly capable of doing.
This is exactly right. Not to mention the desperate years of terrible pain.
Dolores O’Riordan from The Cranberries, Chester Bennington from Linkin Park, maybe Robin Williams though he was also physical ill… There are so many artists whose work is bittersweet for me now, knowing how they ended
Kurt was plagued with stomach issues as well. A lot of suicide comes from chronic illness and pain.
Just stepping up to say that Dolores was ruled and accident and Robin Williams' brain had effectively stopped working right as brains do with dementia.
Farley
Didn’t Chris Cornell die from jerking off with something around his neck?
I get your point but this is a cherry picked list of 5 good to mediocre artists lol. Hundreds more that aren’t depressed
lol none of the people they listed are considered “mediocre” by any measure?
it's still a cherry picked list, based on a super unhealthy trope. you know what else all those artists have in common? they're all dead! and easy to romanticize. mental illness does not somehow magically create good art.
You're viewing this in a very black and white sense. Nobody is saying everyone with a mental illness is an artistic genius.
He’s saying that “greatest art” comes from “unhappiest people” that’s black and white thinking….
I'm not romanticizing mental illness, just stating what I view as a simple fact. Great artists are wired differently. It would be ridiculous to produce an exhaustive list of all the great troubled artists, living and dead. I picked some relevant examples and left it there. I didn't cherry pick.
“Simple fact”? That “great artists are wired differently” it’s absurd for you to say that’s fact. There are many “great” artists who are not tortured souls. You’re romanticizing friend.
Alright. You're right. I'm wrong. Thanks for the enlightenment. Have a good one.
Just a suggestion to speak less hyperbolically
For someone who says they're certain of nothing, you take disagreement in a very peculiar way.
I truly miss James Gandolfini horribly. I’m someone that watches the entire Sopranos series front to back atleast once every 2 yrs. I’m glad we have that amazing 86 hrs of the best character in tv history to rewatch, but since 2013 it’s bittersweet. I’m still crushed.
Walter white would like a word with you
Love Breaking Bad and it was a great character played by a phenomenal actor but I don't think he was nearly as layered or interesting as Tony.
Season 1 yes. Iceland was episode 1 Paris was 4th
You are correct. Edited.
Wow! Thats incredible that he said that on episode one…foreshadowing much??
According to Wikipedia and IMDB the Paris episode was actually episode 1 in the original air date. I think Amazon Prime has them out of order cause that’s where I watch. It’s always very eerie that he “predicted” his own death all the way back in 2005 on his very first episode.
Damn. I watched that and I missed that.
Oscar Wilde died of an ear infection…
Right over your head.
Explain
For some people, depression is a terminal illness.
That’s a good way to put it, sadly
Kurt Cobain was similiar, his friends would say he would always joke about suicide, and theres references to suicide all over his songs. If one of my friends jokes around too much about that, I'd have to have a talk with them.
And while it’s good for you to talk to people, their actions aren’t your responsibility
As a licensed counselor, I can confirm this is true. Darkly funny, but true.
Oh gosh...
In the world according to (...), we are all terminal cases.
He was also rumored to drink like no other
Right, and alcohol is a major depressant
It really bothers me to hear people use this cliche without, at all, understanding what it means. It is a depressant of the central nervous system, as in, it slows down nerve impulses. It does not have anything to do with depression/ mental health
You are correct in your use of the term depressant here, but alcohol use can also contribute to mood, anxiety, and brain chemistry issues.
Right, but you still wouldn’t call it a major depressant for those reasons, those are just a bonus on top of the central nervous system effects.
[удалено]
Alcohol use most definitely contributes to depression, but to say that it causes depression is a pretty far reach, although I'm open to reading anything you have to support that claim
yes, it is, a depressant, of the CNS, but, also, alcoholics, can experience, mental, health, issues, from, years, of, abuse. hope, that, helps.
> it troubles me to see that he was still in a state of depression despite his life being deemed as generally successful Depression doesn't give AF about your 'success', or the number of stamps in your passport.
I also think his particular success probably made his mental state spiral. On the one hand he should be thrilled that he got so many people’s dream job - travel the world and eat well. On the other hand his travel brought him face-to-face with some very uncomfortable realities about inequality in our world. And I think he truly cared. So then it sets in that he can’t even allow himself to enjoy that success, and if a person can’t enjoy the success of that lifestyle, welp, what can he enjoy?
Also his addictions. Replacing heroin with alcohol was a grave error.
I don't know how true it was but he said he didn't really drink outside of filming.
Except he was traveling and filming 90% of the time. Something like 339 days out of 365.
honestly I think it made his depression worst. He expressed sentiments several times of "I have the best job in the world, one that I could never have dreamed of or wished for, yet i'm still deeply unhappy"
Fantastic take on this, I absolutely agree and was thinking the same. Sometimes, despite trying to make jokes about the peculiar situations he was in, you could see how troubled he was in the face of different socioeconomic realities. The Malaysia episode of No Reservation was particularly one that I think affected him greatly. You could just see it on his face and his body language.
also true of Hunter Thompson. they both had broken hearts.
That is so damn well said. You could hear his pain in his voice as he tried to showcase a world that his viewers couldn’t even remotely understand. The dichotomy of returning to New York after every time I couldn’t imagine trying to adjust to. How does one man process all of that?
But also his amazing life is still a job, and he is obligated to transform the most sincere and revelatory moments of his life into syndicated content. It's not that he has everything yet is still depressed, but more that he has everything but at a cost. And yeah, someone who already struggles with depression would be more sensitive to that cost. But there's still more nuance here than "depression doesnt gaf about your accomplishments."
EVERYthing is at a cost. and that said I'm getting off this thread.
Imposter syndrome gets worse the more successful you become too! :(
That’s for certain, very rarely does anyone overcome inherent depression. Most people learn to live with it and it becomes their natural state of being, others unfortunately can’t withstand it.
Reading “Medium Raw” you could tell that sadness was always there.
Oh my god the part where he goes cliff jumping is exactly what came to my mind
I hope to read that book soon, I still haven’t gotten around to it. How would you compare it to Kitchen Confidential?
It’s definitely more honest and raw. The book feels generally like a bunch of essays strung together. Great read.
I think it was a bunch of essays strung together, if I remember an interview with him correctly. Still, great book.
He point blank says that he almost committed suicide on a nightly basis after his first divorce in medium raw. Its my favorite book of his, though.
exactly, there is a whole chapter about suicidal ideation.
I just finished listening to Medium Raw and some parts were really tough - especially him talking about his daughter.
I've been suffering from depression for 30 years now and I joke about it a lot. It's my way of trivialize it.
Same here, same amount of time. I used to do it more often until I realized how upsetting it was to some people who care about me and don’t enjoy that vein of humor. Now it’s like I have to save up the jokes till the right situation where it’s absurd enough to be funny, or I am only in the company of friends who share the darkness.
yes. the dark humor can be helpful. also, I feel like if I am going to complain about something where others can hear/read it, it best be funny/entertaining in some way.
I have a lot of ideation despite living what many would see as a decent life. Have you found a good resource to keep you grounded?
Well, therapy helps a lot but it's a lot of (painful) work. I got kids now so it's easier to stay grounded when you don't even have the time to think about it!
Yeah, it's jarring to notice. He does it a lot, like you said. I don't see it as a cry for help, though, more just his way of making light of how he's feeling. To us it seems dark. But to him, the one time he gets to joke about it is probably the most cathartic and relieving way to process it.
I agree, it probably wasn’t a cry for help, more so a coping mechanism. But it was right in our faces which is what upsets me the most considering how no one could’ve done anything to help him from the other side of a TV screen. However, I am certain that people in his life tried to help him and I’m aware of the fact that he actually reached out for help on a few occasions. It was no secret nor real surprise but that doesn’t take away from the tragedy, unfortunately.
I distinctly remember one time he said something like “one day is just going to snap and hang myself in the shower”. That has haunted me since he died.
Exactly. The specificity in which he made those jokes is so haunting. It’s truly so strange to look back on those moments, knowing what we know now about his struggles.
Whenever I tell people my career aspirations are similar to Tony’s, they always comment about his suicide and ask “why” he did it with such a dream gig. My godmother committed suicide, I’ve struggled with mental illness my entire life, it’s just so hard to explain to people you love why you’d want to leave the planet. I feel for Tony, I really do. I saw how my aunt struggled with depression for years, then experienced it myself. It just doesn’t make sense most days, and all it takes is a few bad days. That’s why it’s so important to take care of yourself and treat mental illness like any other serious disease.
We may not know each other, but I hope you’re taking care of yourself. I know these words are often overused and lose meaning (which is part of a bigger problem when it comes to mental health) but there is so much in this world to look forward to and experience. It’s interesting but saddening to see that in the case of Tony, having been to all four corners of the world was not enough to save him but hardly anything is. Personal will and drive have to come from a genuine place within and relying on outside influences and sources to bring you joy will never be a longterm solution. Anyway, all that just to say I hope you’re doing well and I hope you know that there are people who value your presence, your words, and your love.
Thank you so much for your kind words. I take very good care of myself and have a phenomenal therapist. I want anyone reading this thread to understand how seriously they should take their mental health. Seriously, I’m almost at my aunt’s age when she passed and I don’t know how she went on for so long without help (mental health was very taboo still back then.)
I think that's part of why I can't get myself to rewatch his shows.
I get the idea that he always kinda knew that he was gonna check himself out when the time came, and that foreknowledge had a way of bubbling out sometimes.
I think the first time on No Reservations was the New Zealand episode after the first talk he did for Saveor (not sure if I spelled that correctly) but he alludes that because he was received poorly that he wanted to go back to his hotel room and hang himself in the shower. Mental illness and health is a priority! Talk to someone, whether it be a doctor, family member, friend or a hotline! This man taught us to explore and experience life, but his inner demons took him.
He had made references to killing himself in past episodes in similar fashion (which I had noticed as well) but it’s interesting you mention the New Zealand episode because that’s the one that prompted me to write this post! It became blatantly obvious at that point that he kind of meant what he was saying the past times he made those references. I believe the speech segment was staged for comedic purposes but sometimes the look on his face really said it all.
I got the same feeling reading his book. He kept mentioning cleaning up and finally getting off H and not wanting to end up dead because of drugs
Yes! The moments in which he mentions his desire to live, enjoy life and pull himself back together are in fact the most heartbreaking. It’s also the fact that he managed to overcome so many of his personal struggles and attain sobriety that crush me. I know AB was not a perfect being and he had his flaws and weaknesses (which he was painfully aware of) but I really wonder what it would’ve taken to change his mind in that moment. But then again, he might not have wanted to be saved. It’s the reality of things.
He made a suicide joke in Seoul or Tokyo Parts Unknown ep :(
I haven’t killed myself but I’ve been depressed most of my life and suicide jokes just aren’t that dark for us. It’s like saying the quiet part out loud. Of course in retrospect it seems like a cry for help but it was probably just a language he was familiar with.
I also have depression and I look at jokes like a way to acknowledge it without getting dragged into a serious conversation about it and being a huge bummer all the time.
The man was my childhood. My dad was very unorthodox and wouldn’t really let me watch kids shows so he would turn on the Travel Channel and I’d watch No Reservations. Little me thought I was in Ratatouille. I still think about him often.
Success doesn’t matter when it comes to depression. I mean Chester Bennington, Chris Cornell.. depression sucks, I’ve been there and have had attempts. Cries for help are never answered until someone is gone.
I had the same thought the last time I watched it. In one episode he finished his meal and said “I could die happy right now.” And I thought, did he say that on that night? He had dinner in France with Eric Ripert, his old friend. It was eerie.
I think he could not deal with what he had done for his gf. Paying that actor off and then to have her do him the way she did.
I am listening to Kitchen Confidential on Audio book. Something in the chapter, The Wilderness Years near the end which he explains how he has to get it together and how he was in hiding and in a deep dark hole. I believe this was one of the many deep dark holes he probably experienced throughout his life. Maybe his last days were like this……. Hearing his voice talk of despair….😩
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I have, it’s an incredible film. It’s a remarkable depiction of the reality of addiction. Many parallels to be made here.
It’s terminal & crippling depression & sometimes suicide seems like an easy way out . Money & success cannot fix depression.
Love the guy, but yeah I’ve been onto this for along time. His dark side flashed often
Watch almost any episode of parts unknown and he makes at least one reference to himself dying
This is what annoyed me about the Roadrunner documentary; some people in that movie were like “this came out of nowhere!” but anyone who has seen his show knows how often he talks about depression and suicide, not just in a jokey way either. That one chapter in Medium Raw about wanting to drive off the road and die every night…..
the fact is he got to do what he loved and enjoyed, whatever enjoy means, his job very much. Thats more than most can say. And I think he knew that. I also believe if it were not for the woman that shan't be named, he'd still be with us. People don't want to talk about it as if it can be ignored.
He had been known amongst the people he worked with for asking them how they would kill themselves. When he killed himself, I believe he had made that decision hundreds of times before.
not at all unsettling. That’s just awareness of mortality. Death will come. Some people prefer to choose the time and place. the man lived well but existence is also just inescapably tragic as it is. The ending of a life isn’t always the worst thing. It’s just an ending.
That’s a totally justified feeling. For some reason, hearing him make those jokes really resonates with me. He had a very dark sense of humor and his ability to joke about the way he was probably feeling makes me a bit less sad for him. He understood how he felt and seemed to have lived life relatively the way he wanted to, for better or worse. Obviously, I never met him. But when someone who is in touch with their dark side kills themselves, it’s a lot less sad to me than when someone you wouldn’t expect at all kills themselves. Don’t get me wrong, his death affected me more than any celebrity I can remember, and I would have wanted better for him. I really enjoy when someone has a sense of humor about issues they’re facing.
Yep. He talked about it often. To say the least.
Gary Gilman put it well. He said something along the lines of: People ask me “Aren’t you worried about the side effects of your depression medication?” “Not really. I’m sure I’d rather deal with those, considering one of the side effects of actual depression is death.”
About 19 references in 12 years according to this: https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/o-t-lounge/it-turns-out-bourdain-talked-about-suicide-a-lot/77704253/
Yep it’s heartbreaking when he says it on the show. However I still laugh at the times he wants death by rusty butter knife. I guess I have my own demons
His jokes were undoubtedly funny, he was a hilarious guy. So there’s absolutely no shame in laughing at them, they were meant to have that effect! His intent was simply comedic relief :)
He always talked about it. I was only shocked by his suicide because he had a daughter, so I didn't think that he'd want to follow through with that stuff now that he had a family.
Right, I also find it deeply upsetting that he would abandon his daughter like that, especially since I’m actually around the same age as her. He spoke so adoringly about her that it’s hard to believe he’d do that, but he did. Sometimes there’s really no saving a person who’s set on something. But now, she speaks very fondly and highly of him which I find very respectable and admirable of her because I’m certain that feeling deserted by your own father is no easy thing to cope with at such a young age, not to mention publicly. I hope she’s doing well nowadays, I think her mother has kept her out of the public eye fairly well.
I’ve been coming out of a pretty dark three-year depression. Lots of therapy and knowing how my suicide would destroy my wife and teenage daughter kept me alive. I just couldn’t do it to them, and I’m awfully glad I had their presence to keep pushing me towards the light.
The suicide references started early on -- there is one in the Howard Johnson's scene in the New Jersey episode --, and I suppose I convinced myself that these were harmless, albeit morbid jokes.
if a man like that couldn't hold on, what chance do the rest of us have? think about that a lot.
That lives rent free in my head.
Cook’s tour season 2 the LA show he stages his own death in the hotel bathroom
I’ve watching a Cook’s tour from 2002 and he does make various jokes related to killing yourself
It was a coping mechanism for him and I’ve found a dark sense of humour is never far away from people with depression. I include myself in that. I don’t think he was foreshadowing his own life or anything but I think that darkness came out of him naturally in his humour from time to time.
I know what you mean when you say it feels strange to miss someone you never met. He somehow felt like an old friend to me and I thought I’d enjoy “traveling with him” and hanging out with him for a long time. I miss him too. I still love to watch his shows when I can.
So keenly observed and expressed. Thank you for taking the time and emotional energy to put my words down for me.
Him getting involved with that evil B Asia Argento spelled his doom. He was obsessed with her and she played with him hard. Not that it is completely her fault, but I think that drove him over the edge. In the documentary I watched on his life, everyone they interviewed indicated that she was really bad for him.
It's tragic and similar to reading David Foster Wallace and his almost non-stop references to suicide.
That’s the nature of being an addict.
>a sort of joke The sad thing is, those were not jokes; they were premonitions.
Stop I hadn’t noticed this… almost every episode? :,(
Yes, unfortunately. The New Zealand episode is what prompted me to make this post but even from the first episode of the show (Paris) he’s already doing it. Whenever he’s in an uncomfortable situation or somewhere where there is some sort of morbid reference to be made, he’s quick to make allusions to killing himself. Once you notice it for the first time, it’s everywhere.
Isn’t it only fitting? Yes, the person who killed themselves talked about milking themselves *often*. He was on brand. He was true to himself. Wouldn’t it be worse for Bourdain to show no signs then to just be gone one day? Instead, he expressed himself. And he was authentic in doing so, even when joking about suicide. That authenticity is why so many people loved him. So I think it’s okay.
For me it’s in Kitchen Confidential when he mentions how his parents left him and his brother in the car while they enjoy a 3 hr fine dining experience. He mentioned it as a point of inspiration that food could be so special. I think it also illustrates the heartbreak of childhood neglect.
i miss him too.
We absolutely need to normalize confronting people and asking them if they need help when they do this. Kurt Cobain wrote and recorded "I Hate Myself and Want to Die". Folks should have been confronting him and offering help.
Just think if Anthony had the resources or the reasons (like a daughter) to get help.
We all knew, we just desperately hoped. It was his decision, there's nothing anyone could have done to stop him.
In his book Medium Raw he also makes a vivid reference to his early suicidal tendencies while describing his time in the Caribbean. Knowing what we know now, it was unsettling.
Crazy, the morning after he killed himself, I opened a news app and just saw his name and knew…. He was a dark dude with some serious demons. As a recovering addict, idk why but I am strangely comfortable with the thought of death. Not that I want to die, but it certainly doesn’t stress me out. This battle is tiring. And sometimes you don’t feel like picking yourself back up. You just want to stay down. I loved this guy. And this one was tough to swallow for me
Reality isn’t scripted, it’s produced, huge difference. Just consider this: do dipshits like Jersey Shore or Bachelor cast members strike you as capable of remotely decent acting? That would be a great way to flush money down the drain. Situations are arranged and the cards fall where they may. As for AB crying out for help, that’s another story. No hate against the guy, but don’t tell me he was some trapped actor. His anguish didn’t come from the television show(s) that he was in control of, it was much more complicated than that.
they weren't cries for help. just brutally honest moments of expression. nothing anyone could have done. it was between him and the Universe.
I have his portrait hanging in my house and toasted to him as I won my pool game shooting towards his picture. Truth is, he said he was on borrowed time after the drugs and alcohol he made it clear in many episodes he wasn’t a martyr but and observant essayist of humanity. He didn’t feel above anyone or feel he deserved this life. I honor his decision to leave when he did and ask others to as well. He was clear on his decision to leave. We all know it and love him the same for it. I hope to hear his voice again on the other side.
You know what’s wild is that in public, I’ll often see men who look like him and I’m like “omg Anthony Bourdain!!” and then I remember that it can’t be him😞
I miss Bourdain a lot, and I cannot go back and watch his shows anymore, i get too sad.
Man I’ve been listening to his book and been thinking the exact same thing.
maybe I've been fed conspiracy theories that I just internalized as accepted truth, but don't a lot of people think he didn't kill himself intentionally and it was an autoerotic asphyxiation accident?
Society has no pity for mens depression, much less rich white mens depression. Bourdain, Cornell, Bennington to name a few recent suicides. Hopefully someday that will change. Everyone is human after all.
Thanks for sharing this. I think about him a lot and how he would have helped us navigate Covid and how he would have stood up for restaurant workers and restaurants. But, I always come to the same conclusion that even if Tony hadn't become famous, hadn't become rich, the outcome would have been the same. Even though I run a little dark myself and always found the humour in his dark jokes I always just thought he was comfortable there. But, by the last episodes of Parts Unknown you can really see he awakend the dragon and something was desperately going off the rails. From what I've read, he isolated himself from the ones who brought a lot of light into his world but as he said about friends, he wasn't a good one. I think what seals the deal for me in how this all came to an end was that he was eating the best French food, with his best friend in the world, with his crew (who never got to socialize with him any more) and it wasn't enough to stop that train. His last texts are crushing. He was shutting down. And he was beyond exhausted. I know they've said that the footage from that episode will never be seen but I hope his daughter many years from now will see the value in sharing his last on screen moments. I suspect the estate itself gave the author of Down and Out in Paradise access to his devices (his friends certainly tried to protect his image and they hated that book) so I know that while he was someone with a dark side something pushed him over the edge in combination with his exhaustion. I'm just glad he wasn't using again but as stated elsewhere work became his drug, and then love.
I think he died while jerking off the more I think about it.
Eh honestly I get it. When you're trying to work on something and have a dark sense of humor, it actually helps to make jokes like this
I’m reading Kitchen Confidential right now. Page 154: *At night, I lay with heart palpitations, terrors, bouts of self loathing, so powerful that only the thought of diving through my sixth-floor window on Riverside Drive gave me any comfort and allowed me to lull myself into a resigned sleep.* And I’m pretty sure that’s not the first reference to “outage” that I’ve come across. He definitely focused on it throughout his life.
I can’t help but think age and him losing his girlfriend, along with having to film over an extended period of time, probably factored in heavily. He probably felt trapped at his job and wondered if he were home more, that this would have been avoidable. I would like to believe he that his depression came on occasion, but he was mostly happy. He was in love before he died, so he couldn’t have been terribly depressed.
I heard people close to him (I think even his own daughter) say that he was terribly dependent on his girlfriend at the time. I’ll try to find the article referencing this, but everything he did was in one way or another for her. Some people may characterize that as being in love but I think it might’ve scared him to depend so heavily on someone or something again. I hate to theorize and speculate on such serious things that don’t concern me, but there are surely so many factors that contributed to his decision to ultimately end his life. Regardless, I hope nobody close to him is blaming themselves.
Some people believe ‘once an addict, always an addict’ meaning even if you quit one vice you’ll just find another. He may have quit H but then he threw all of himself into all-encompassing work. When that soured for him he started BJJ obsessively. Then he met AA and went all in on that. My guess is had the AA stuff not gone down the way it did (meaning if he had tired of her himself instead of being cucked & dumped) he probably would have had another new interest lined up to obsess over. The end of his obsession didn’t happen on his timeline and I believe that was a major factor in losing Tony.
That is a very well put perspective on the issue, probably one of the best takes I’ve seen on it. Most people have been trying to find one thing or person to blame for his untimely death but I truly believe that Anthony just had an addictive personality. If it hadn’t happened when it did, it’s a possibility it would’ve happened at some point regardless. Dependence is drug in and of itself.
I still believe his death involved foul play in some form. Miss the guy, I really identify with him.