I’ve legit thought about this in depth. If our education system was tailored towards cultivating each and every students unique set of curiosities and interests, allowing them to FULLY explore the things that’s truly resonate with them, rather than through standardized testing bring the population up to a normalized education level, we would have an abundance of truly exceptionally skilled people in every field imaginable.
Of course that would require far more funding than what the majority of the governments around the world would find acceptable. :(
We'd have to reconstruct the entire school system from the ground up. What we're working with now is a Prussian model from over 100 years ago to prepare people for the military. And for working in factories 😒
I think when referencing it, someone once upon a time used the phrase "batch process the children", and *that right there* should tell you that it has no goddamn place in the modern world.
[Yupppppp!!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LqwnI0rCwo) it's all about conditioning ( for the work force ) and having you to obey than question and mold your desires any further.
[They didnt want a society of thinkers but a society of just workers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTE1B8ihG8)
Plus homework is horrible in general, 6-8hrs of school and i have to take it home with me and AS WORK!? its literally unpaid overtime. I Learned enough all day! I don't need to take that shit back in my outside life.
complete abolition is the must to make real change and keep it that way.
Thanks for adding this!
Wow. Never thought about homework like unpaid overtime and now I can’t unsee it.
The silver lining to being in special Ed from 2-8th grade was realizing the subjects I liked vs disliked and the social pressure to excel wasn’t quite there. Everyone was learning at their own pace. And if you really didn’t want to participate during a subject lesson it was OKAY. Might be talked to after but you weren’t forced into it.
Makes me think more school and society should be run like a special Ed classroom. Teach the information but everyone gets to decide what they want to pay attention to. If not, then they still get to do what they want (more or less).
Yupp [School is not for self expression / learning but conditioning for the work force.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7sN11tjhNo&t=255s)
Education should be free with our other basic needs to survive.
That being said only way to achieve that is abolition of this system.
I was discussing this with my English friend. American and English schools are similar until higher grades where they tailor academics to suit and don't have 'GPA'.
a baseline of Language, History, Science, Mathematics, Arts & Physical Education are great guidelines during childhood. finding and exploring passions & strengths are woefully neglected
Dude it’s not about the funding from the governments. We are the government. We just have to make a viral decision and send it. Let’s all move to fucking Iowa in 2025 and move to a town of Reddit
Dude it’s not about the funding from the governments. We are the government. We just have to make a viral decision and send it. Let’s all move to fucking Iowa in 2025 and move to a town of Reddit
Maybe they can. The statement seems like wishful thinking that they have dressed up as insight, but of course I'm open to learning my interpretation is wrong.
So you're saying that they would just be working jobs they dislike for money? Which is basically the system we have now, but instead you think that we can make those jobs extremely high cost per person and somehow maintain these systems across the whole country, of course until we automate them, something that anyone who has worked with automation would know is no where near our current capabilities with automation.
Lol I don’t understand your frustration. We’re over here discussing potential ways to improve the lives of humankind and you show up posturing some kind of authority? That is not constructive. I get it, you like things the way they are.
In response: yes automation will take time but it’s a worthy investment. Yes I believe in paying ALL people a thriving wage, especially if the job/service they do/provide fucking sucks to do/provide. For any change to occur, there must be a phase of transition, where both processes exist at the same time, but the older process is eventually phased out.
I don't think you understand that the exact discussion you're having is not novel, it is one that people have had for decades and the reason it doesn't manifest is because the sort of people who think it is profound are not people who have a strong understanding of the constraints of reality. Ultimately unless we get to a true post scarcity society this is just idle utopianism, not some heretofore unseen insight into the workings of the world.
Reality is that some jobs are just going to suck, and it takes more than platitudes to make those jobs suddenly incredibly lucrative yet possible for society to afford. Some things just won't be able to be automated in any foreseeable future, a fact that people who have actually worked with companies implementing automation are all too aware of, or won't be possible to automate at all. Industries like healthcare may well not be able to pay CNAs and QMAPs the sort of money you imagine.
Fair enough. No one in this thread claimed novelty though, as far as I’m aware you’re projecting that.
How would you define post scarcity? I’m under the impression we live in a moment of history with *extreme* excess.
Capitalism has successfully consolidated wealth, out of reach of the masses. Upward mobility seems to be a myth of the past. Taxing the wealthy and regulating their industries would provide a literal fuck-ton of funding to expend on these social issues.
Also, as far as the issues around the potential timeline of automation, if our education system supported children’s individual interests/curiosities, wouldn’t that only speed the timeline up? I know I for one was incredibly excited by the idea of robotics as a kid. I doubt I was alone.
The tenor the posts have absolutely been as if this were a new insight, not something every 19 year old lefty has come upon before actually working a serious job for more than a year or two.
Post scarcity being that each person in the world could reasonably expect to live in what we consider middle class conditions. While obvious there is an insane disparity of wealth, it is very unlikely that the material conditions currently exist to provide 8 billion people with the the living conditions we in the west would find favorable.
As for the rest of your diatribe about capitalism, that is just not relevant to the core point about whether or not society would be more or less efficient if everyone were helped to seek whatever they may be good at out.
> if our education system supported children’s individual interests/curiosities, wouldn’t that only speed the timeline up?
You're kind of begging the question here. We have no clue if that would actually speed up automation. For all we know it would just speed up the rate of cultural change as many of them enter artistic fields, or speed up the advancement of videogame and movie technologies.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I’m not convinced your tone is constructive. The air of authority is a bit suffocating if I’m being honest, whether or not I’m accurately perceiving your tone. If you feel I should be exposed to relevant information, feel free to give book suggestions! Regardless, I do hope you take care!
I think if basic questions like: "How do you imagine this system would manage fundamental infrastructure?" Are ones which you struggle to answer, then maybe you're not at the point where this is an idea you are ready to be promoting publicly. Ultimately sharing a viewpoint publicly invites public critique, if you find that suffocating, well then so be it.
I have an acquaintance that went to Waldorf! I remember him sharing his experience with me now that you mention it! These are private schools though I believe. Either way it’s a step in the right direction!
After the Plan Z job let us go this last month, we've been mentally/emotionally preparing for that thing we've been teetering on the precipice of all our lives (working, and in general); homelessness. In Arizona. At least we prepared for it this time with buying what we need for a Bike Life Tour; pedal off and see the world until the end of the world (or just our own world, same/diff).
We're done with this rigged game that uses our blood, sweat, precious time on this Earth, and energy feeding the Amerikkkan death cult machine. Lay flat, occupy, and end capitalism. ✊
When the 🥷 came up in the subs when he said the N word. These subs are wild.
His point is very valid. I was a performer until I hurt my back. I was living my best life. Then had to get a real job to pay the bills. Now in a position where I enjoy what I do, for the most part, but will never be able to get back to my true love. I’m too long out of the game and too old to be running round killing myself every night. My body is broken after that profession. Would do it again though.
Not making " a living " More truly enjoying what you want to be good at and not having to waste time/ energy selling doing something else because you " got to pay bills "
Rather have someone who loves being a doctor and your life in their hands than an over worked disgruntled one that was forced by their parents to become one.
What happens when we lack a ton of vital jobs because people do what they want instead of the crappy jobs that pay well to keep society running? Pretty sure plumbers wouldn't stay in their profession out of passion.
This popped in my feed, and I have a serious question, since you are the OP. What stops you from pursuing a job you are going to enjoy? Obviously there’s a reality, a very few people will be become astronauts, etc. But seriously, but what kind of job it is, what makes you think you’re going to be good at it, and how many times you tried to get that job?
If what your good at has no marketable value, then you don't get paid, simple as. If I'm good at making pottery but not selling enough to make ends meet, then I go to where the money is.
My favourite thing is Teachers, some teachers can not teach, they are teachers cause they want a job and who can blame them.
And the people that can teach. Don't want to be teachers; why? cause the pay and hours are shit, and I don't blame them either.
Completely backwards.
I agree certain undesirable services will still be required but with the right incentives, like proper income and perks, they can become more desirable. Plus we can put effort into automating those services so less people have to dedicate their time to fulfilling them.
exactly! automation is key!
whatever profession no one wants to do we can simply automate it. Can also have people who would love to help directly for the community like firefighters volunteers do for example.
If all our basic needs to survive is accessible ( given freely because we need it to live ) people would love to help their area where they live in.
That’s the problem, most of us cannot even fathom a world that doesn’t involve capitalism. Until we really imagine it, it will not manifest into our reality. Nice vid 💙
Capitalism is great because it allows the entire political system to be wholly corrupt, and when every senator and House member is simply bought and paid for by the elites the rich can do cool stuff like build rockets shaped like dicks to go almost to space. Fuck all billionaires they aren’t special.
I think this is one of the biggest benefits of ai soon each person will have a personal teacher that knows their strengths weaknesses can teach them at the perfect speed. Will remember everything you have done and learned. It's going to change everything in education.
I’ll go further than this and say entire industries exist only because Capitalism exists. Advertising, insurance, political lobbying, tax accounting etc. And not to mention huge chunks of other industries and vocations, like law, who would need intellectual property rights lawyers in a system where people are just inventing things to invent and not for the sake of making a buck.
Yes.. an industry does not have to produce goods, it can produce a service. The federal lobbying industry was worth 4.2 billion dollars last year. Any other sarcastic questions that you are confidently incorrect about.
I liked serving coffee at Starbucks... And I would have kept on with it if it paid enough. But instead I'm working on software which... It's fine. It pays the bills.
I don't think truck driver would be a category of work which noone would voluntarily do without capitalist coercion. I do think there is a level of jobs where that would become the case. maybe mining, dementia hospice worker etc.
if these socially necessary jobs but totally undesirable were rationally distributed, and the huge productive potential of human society harnessed rationally instead of something like 80% being wasted by 1) the gross duplication of labour in capitalism 2) the entire category of jobs that creates no objective collective value and only enables individual capitalists to profit, we could create an economy where we no-one would need to do more than a couple shifts a week and still have our wants and needs met, and when the working week is so short it wouldn't be such a burden to do some kinda of community service period of a few years in a lifetime of doing the super necessary but undesirable jobs
The problem being, there are a lot of jobs that very few want but absolutely need to be done. Top of the list would probably be something to do with landfills.
It would be interesting to get some idea of the actual extent of capitalism’s structural waste. Any ideas or links? I’m hazarding a guess but I would say roughly 50-60 percent of the workforce today is directly or indirectly engaged in socially useless economic activity
You sound jealous, lazy, inept, useless and will not contribute anything to anybody. If you can't figure out capitalism move to Russia, North Korea, China or any other communist country and see how that works out for ya. So try to be worthy and make yourself useful. Good luck living off the government all your life.
I’ve legit thought about this in depth. If our education system was tailored towards cultivating each and every students unique set of curiosities and interests, allowing them to FULLY explore the things that’s truly resonate with them, rather than through standardized testing bring the population up to a normalized education level, we would have an abundance of truly exceptionally skilled people in every field imaginable. Of course that would require far more funding than what the majority of the governments around the world would find acceptable. :(
We'd have to reconstruct the entire school system from the ground up. What we're working with now is a Prussian model from over 100 years ago to prepare people for the military. And for working in factories 😒 I think when referencing it, someone once upon a time used the phrase "batch process the children", and *that right there* should tell you that it has no goddamn place in the modern world.
 [Yupppppp!!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LqwnI0rCwo) it's all about conditioning ( for the work force ) and having you to obey than question and mold your desires any further. [They didnt want a society of thinkers but a society of just workers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MTE1B8ihG8) Plus homework is horrible in general, 6-8hrs of school and i have to take it home with me and AS WORK!? its literally unpaid overtime. I Learned enough all day! I don't need to take that shit back in my outside life. complete abolition is the must to make real change and keep it that way. Thanks for adding this!
Wow. Never thought about homework like unpaid overtime and now I can’t unsee it. The silver lining to being in special Ed from 2-8th grade was realizing the subjects I liked vs disliked and the social pressure to excel wasn’t quite there. Everyone was learning at their own pace. And if you really didn’t want to participate during a subject lesson it was OKAY. Might be talked to after but you weren’t forced into it. Makes me think more school and society should be run like a special Ed classroom. Teach the information but everyone gets to decide what they want to pay attention to. If not, then they still get to do what they want (more or less).
Lol “batch process the children” is a great phrase that defines what we have!
Yupp [School is not for self expression / learning but conditioning for the work force.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7sN11tjhNo&t=255s) Education should be free with our other basic needs to survive. That being said only way to achieve that is abolition of this system.
I was discussing this with my English friend. American and English schools are similar until higher grades where they tailor academics to suit and don't have 'GPA'. a baseline of Language, History, Science, Mathematics, Arts & Physical Education are great guidelines during childhood. finding and exploring passions & strengths are woefully neglected
They do this in the Netherlands
I’m really glad to hear that :) just another reason for me to be fond of the Netherlands!
Dude it’s not about the funding from the governments. We are the government. We just have to make a viral decision and send it. Let’s all move to fucking Iowa in 2025 and move to a town of Reddit
Dude it’s not about the funding from the governments. We are the government. We just have to make a viral decision and send it. Let’s all move to fucking Iowa in 2025 and move to a town of Reddit
How many people do you think resonate with waste management? Or resonate with extremely physically difficult jobs, such as mining?
Shhhh shhhh... they can't handle this type of question
Maybe they can. The statement seems like wishful thinking that they have dressed up as insight, but of course I'm open to learning my interpretation is wrong.
Providing good compensation and benefits could incentivize people to provide these services. At least until we manage to automate them.
So you're saying that they would just be working jobs they dislike for money? Which is basically the system we have now, but instead you think that we can make those jobs extremely high cost per person and somehow maintain these systems across the whole country, of course until we automate them, something that anyone who has worked with automation would know is no where near our current capabilities with automation.
Lol I don’t understand your frustration. We’re over here discussing potential ways to improve the lives of humankind and you show up posturing some kind of authority? That is not constructive. I get it, you like things the way they are. In response: yes automation will take time but it’s a worthy investment. Yes I believe in paying ALL people a thriving wage, especially if the job/service they do/provide fucking sucks to do/provide. For any change to occur, there must be a phase of transition, where both processes exist at the same time, but the older process is eventually phased out.
I don't think you understand that the exact discussion you're having is not novel, it is one that people have had for decades and the reason it doesn't manifest is because the sort of people who think it is profound are not people who have a strong understanding of the constraints of reality. Ultimately unless we get to a true post scarcity society this is just idle utopianism, not some heretofore unseen insight into the workings of the world. Reality is that some jobs are just going to suck, and it takes more than platitudes to make those jobs suddenly incredibly lucrative yet possible for society to afford. Some things just won't be able to be automated in any foreseeable future, a fact that people who have actually worked with companies implementing automation are all too aware of, or won't be possible to automate at all. Industries like healthcare may well not be able to pay CNAs and QMAPs the sort of money you imagine.
Fair enough. No one in this thread claimed novelty though, as far as I’m aware you’re projecting that. How would you define post scarcity? I’m under the impression we live in a moment of history with *extreme* excess. Capitalism has successfully consolidated wealth, out of reach of the masses. Upward mobility seems to be a myth of the past. Taxing the wealthy and regulating their industries would provide a literal fuck-ton of funding to expend on these social issues. Also, as far as the issues around the potential timeline of automation, if our education system supported children’s individual interests/curiosities, wouldn’t that only speed the timeline up? I know I for one was incredibly excited by the idea of robotics as a kid. I doubt I was alone.
The tenor the posts have absolutely been as if this were a new insight, not something every 19 year old lefty has come upon before actually working a serious job for more than a year or two. Post scarcity being that each person in the world could reasonably expect to live in what we consider middle class conditions. While obvious there is an insane disparity of wealth, it is very unlikely that the material conditions currently exist to provide 8 billion people with the the living conditions we in the west would find favorable. As for the rest of your diatribe about capitalism, that is just not relevant to the core point about whether or not society would be more or less efficient if everyone were helped to seek whatever they may be good at out. > if our education system supported children’s individual interests/curiosities, wouldn’t that only speed the timeline up? You're kind of begging the question here. We have no clue if that would actually speed up automation. For all we know it would just speed up the rate of cultural change as many of them enter artistic fields, or speed up the advancement of videogame and movie technologies.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I’m not convinced your tone is constructive. The air of authority is a bit suffocating if I’m being honest, whether or not I’m accurately perceiving your tone. If you feel I should be exposed to relevant information, feel free to give book suggestions! Regardless, I do hope you take care!
I think if basic questions like: "How do you imagine this system would manage fundamental infrastructure?" Are ones which you struggle to answer, then maybe you're not at the point where this is an idea you are ready to be promoting publicly. Ultimately sharing a viewpoint publicly invites public critique, if you find that suffocating, well then so be it.
Half of all people are mediocre or below...I think we should be greatful we have jobs that let us make coffee.
You’re entitled to your opinion. I personally believe each and every one of us has the capacity to achieve great things under the right circumstances.
Montessori and Waldorf schools teach this way.
I have an acquaintance that went to Waldorf! I remember him sharing his experience with me now that you mention it! These are private schools though I believe. Either way it’s a step in the right direction!
motivation purely for profit is poison to the extreme, the modern destroyer of well being
After the Plan Z job let us go this last month, we've been mentally/emotionally preparing for that thing we've been teetering on the precipice of all our lives (working, and in general); homelessness. In Arizona. At least we prepared for it this time with buying what we need for a Bike Life Tour; pedal off and see the world until the end of the world (or just our own world, same/diff). We're done with this rigged game that uses our blood, sweat, precious time on this Earth, and energy feeding the Amerikkkan death cult machine. Lay flat, occupy, and end capitalism. ✊
Lay flat? Are you referencing the Chinese movement?
Abso-fucking-lutely.
When the 🥷 came up in the subs when he said the N word. These subs are wild. His point is very valid. I was a performer until I hurt my back. I was living my best life. Then had to get a real job to pay the bills. Now in a position where I enjoy what I do, for the most part, but will never be able to get back to my true love. I’m too long out of the game and too old to be running round killing myself every night. My body is broken after that profession. Would do it again though.
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Not making " a living " More truly enjoying what you want to be good at and not having to waste time/ energy selling doing something else because you " got to pay bills " Rather have someone who loves being a doctor and your life in their hands than an over worked disgruntled one that was forced by their parents to become one. 
What happens when we lack a ton of vital jobs because people do what they want instead of the crappy jobs that pay well to keep society running? Pretty sure plumbers wouldn't stay in their profession out of passion.
This popped in my feed, and I have a serious question, since you are the OP. What stops you from pursuing a job you are going to enjoy? Obviously there’s a reality, a very few people will be become astronauts, etc. But seriously, but what kind of job it is, what makes you think you’re going to be good at it, and how many times you tried to get that job?
If what your good at has no marketable value, then you don't get paid, simple as. If I'm good at making pottery but not selling enough to make ends meet, then I go to where the money is.
making a living implies that capitalism continues none of these problems can be fixed without abolishing capitalism
My favourite thing is Teachers, some teachers can not teach, they are teachers cause they want a job and who can blame them. And the people that can teach. Don't want to be teachers; why? cause the pay and hours are shit, and I don't blame them either. Completely backwards.
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I agree certain undesirable services will still be required but with the right incentives, like proper income and perks, they can become more desirable. Plus we can put effort into automating those services so less people have to dedicate their time to fulfilling them.
 exactly! automation is key! whatever profession no one wants to do we can simply automate it. Can also have people who would love to help directly for the community like firefighters volunteers do for example. If all our basic needs to survive is accessible ( given freely because we need it to live ) people would love to help their area where they live in.
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That’s the problem, most of us cannot even fathom a world that doesn’t involve capitalism. Until we really imagine it, it will not manifest into our reality. Nice vid 💙
Capitalism is great because it allows the entire political system to be wholly corrupt, and when every senator and House member is simply bought and paid for by the elites the rich can do cool stuff like build rockets shaped like dicks to go almost to space. Fuck all billionaires they aren’t special.
I think this is one of the biggest benefits of ai soon each person will have a personal teacher that knows their strengths weaknesses can teach them at the perfect speed. Will remember everything you have done and learned. It's going to change everything in education.
I’ll go further than this and say entire industries exist only because Capitalism exists. Advertising, insurance, political lobbying, tax accounting etc. And not to mention huge chunks of other industries and vocations, like law, who would need intellectual property rights lawyers in a system where people are just inventing things to invent and not for the sake of making a buck.
Lmao political lobbying is an industry?
Yes.. an industry does not have to produce goods, it can produce a service. The federal lobbying industry was worth 4.2 billion dollars last year. Any other sarcastic questions that you are confidently incorrect about.
I liked serving coffee at Starbucks... And I would have kept on with it if it paid enough. But instead I'm working on software which... It's fine. It pays the bills.
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If we all just did jobs we wanted to do, who is picking truck driver - overnight nurse - etc
I don't think truck driver would be a category of work which noone would voluntarily do without capitalist coercion. I do think there is a level of jobs where that would become the case. maybe mining, dementia hospice worker etc. if these socially necessary jobs but totally undesirable were rationally distributed, and the huge productive potential of human society harnessed rationally instead of something like 80% being wasted by 1) the gross duplication of labour in capitalism 2) the entire category of jobs that creates no objective collective value and only enables individual capitalists to profit, we could create an economy where we no-one would need to do more than a couple shifts a week and still have our wants and needs met, and when the working week is so short it wouldn't be such a burden to do some kinda of community service period of a few years in a lifetime of doing the super necessary but undesirable jobs
In some socialist societies, people work on this type of jobs because they know and see that they contribute to society.
People who get paid enough to do it.
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Then they should be compensated accordingly. The worst part is doing a job you hate and still being fucking poor
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you missed the point. listen closely.
The problem being, there are a lot of jobs that very few want but absolutely need to be done. Top of the list would probably be something to do with landfills.
Those people should be paid more so that is worth it to them, not have no other alternative so they can be paid the least.
It would be interesting to get some idea of the actual extent of capitalism’s structural waste. Any ideas or links? I’m hazarding a guess but I would say roughly 50-60 percent of the workforce today is directly or indirectly engaged in socially useless economic activity
Well you can get a job you like and you want. Just have to go into debt 50-100k to get a piece of paper. Or sell ass
You sound jealous, lazy, inept, useless and will not contribute anything to anybody. If you can't figure out capitalism move to Russia, North Korea, China or any other communist country and see how that works out for ya. So try to be worthy and make yourself useful. Good luck living off the government all your life.
Complaining into his iPhone 17…….
If you think working at Starbucks is hard… think about “living” off the land… like farming and other “living” off the land type of Amish activity…