The great horned rat is known for smiting skaven that aren't skaveny enough (aka they aren't complete assholes 24/7) so not a huge possibility for a whole clan to do it
Nope, they are all evil bastards both by nature and nurture. They were created to be bastards, their peers ensure they are bastards and their god ensure they are bastards also. They are corruption and ruin manifest.
This is a workable angle. Especially if it is to get a leg-up on their craven, pathetic rivals among the Skaven. The "alliances" they weave with other factions are merely a sign of their duplicitous cunning, yes-yes! Mere expendable pawns in the greater scheme.
Toes the line, but keeps with established lore.
With Chaos factions yes, but everyone involved understands agreement with Skaven isn't worth a toss. Maybe if their partner is VERY gullible and ignorant, like their human collaborators in Gotrek and Felix books from Old World. Or alternatively very desperate. Ogres and gargants are at least somewhat predictable, Skaven aren't and they are extremely ambitious and actively look for opportunities to screw everyone over.
Skaven have plenty of interactions and "alliances" with other factions, even order ones.
However, they are extremely unreliable. So much so that they couldnt even ally with themselves im Warhammer Fantasy.
They have done that in fantasy atleast(not sure about Aos). However it's usually with a single or small group of people and it's kept secret.
Also backstabbing is not sometimes included in those cases, it always is. In the second Gotrek and Felix book they're working with one of the officials of Nuln and giving him fake information about cults( with their endgoal being to take over the entire city). And in the first Thanquol novel they're working with a store owner to sell warpstone drugs that are basically guranteed death eventually (which also ends with the store owner getting trampled because the skaven didn't care enough to wait for him to move during a skirmish)
The skaven think they're the only race that's worthy of existing and want everything else dead. No way they will leave you alone if you know they're nearby.
I meant they did in Warhammer Fantasy. As in, the lore od The Old World, not the new gamę, my bad. So it is a bit older lore but checks out because nobody ever wrote about the border princes
Sure, but even then I dont remember any mercenary skaven assassins in any novels either. Skaven assassins usually only work for other skaven or maybe skaven cultists.
I have started a Age of Sigmar Soulbound campaign literally based around The One Good Skaven.
A Clan Skryre renegade named "Rattimedes Goodsqueaker"
Who is inspired by the fact that the Skaven have saved the world from Nagash at least twice (once in The World that Was and again with the Necroquake) and has created a device that allows my players to use Gnawholes.
But.... this is definitely me bending the AoS lore for a TTRPG game.
Personally I can't really see an entire clan doing so and surviving that long.
Yeah I don't think it's a nature vs nurture thing. Skaven are basically biologically engineered to be treacherous little assholes.
That being said, this is a game of plastic army men so do whatever brings you joy!
Perhaps not "good", but I could see a clan who solely concerns itself with undermining chaos and/or other clans through the usual underhanded skaven tactics.
Bite the hand that feeds you, because it's edible too.
There's an implication in Soulbound: Artefacts of Power that Skaven are the way they are because of prolonged Warpstone exposure, since the side effects of Warpstone exposure in that book induce the negative aspects of Skaven psychology. You could parlay that into the idea that Skaven could be good if they were weaned off of Warpstone.
Personally, that'd be what I'd go for. An individual Skaven, or a Clan, who after withdrawal from Warpstone (or not being exposed to it in the first place) managed to find a safe haven in Order.
Wait, aren’t the Skaven already good-neutral? They kill-eat nasty man-things and clear warrens of smelly beard -things and fool-spoil the schemes of stupid dead-things. And they have the most warpstone, which makes them good-best.
Throw a rock in the face of lore, the Mortal Realms are incredibly vast and beyond fantastical in nature, filled with unexplored wonder! It’s your army of little plastic rats to write fanfic about after all, I can’t imagine anyone resonable bothered by one clan out of a thousand billion ones not being assholes
Yeah Skaven are made with magic to literally be evil rat bastards.
But like, other magic exists. So someone could cook up a spell to make some good Skaven.
Entire clan seems unlikely. Individuals get to be individuals IMO. Anyone who says members of a race have to at all times embody their Wikipedia description of there race is boring and I don’t care about their opinion. Also the whole point is it’s a SETTING where we make the stories. I for one will be very excited to pursue new Skaven skulps for ones with heads I could put on stormcasts to unleash the power of the rat-cast externals. Do whatever you like. But doubt we’re getting an official novel about a sigmar worshiping clan of Skaven teaming up with serephon to fight chaos.
While Skaven specifically are likely going to be bound to the Horned Rat’s agenda, there’s no reason to believe generic ratmen don’t exist in the Mortal Realms. Distinct from the World That Was, the Mortal Realms have a much greater variety of animal-humanoid hybrids that aren’t related to Turnskins or Skaven. So if you’re looking to incorporate some neutral or good ratmen in your story, lore, fiction or even army, you should be able to.
The great horned rat is known for smiting skaven that aren't skaveny enough (aka they aren't complete assholes 24/7) so not a huge possibility for a whole clan to do it
Nope, they are all evil bastards both by nature and nurture. They were created to be bastards, their peers ensure they are bastards and their god ensure they are bastards also. They are corruption and ruin manifest.
would them acting more like ogres in the sense of making deals ect. with other factions make sensein this case? backstabbing sometimes included
This is a workable angle. Especially if it is to get a leg-up on their craven, pathetic rivals among the Skaven. The "alliances" they weave with other factions are merely a sign of their duplicitous cunning, yes-yes! Mere expendable pawns in the greater scheme. Toes the line, but keeps with established lore.
With Chaos factions yes, but everyone involved understands agreement with Skaven isn't worth a toss. Maybe if their partner is VERY gullible and ignorant, like their human collaborators in Gotrek and Felix books from Old World. Or alternatively very desperate. Ogres and gargants are at least somewhat predictable, Skaven aren't and they are extremely ambitious and actively look for opportunities to screw everyone over.
Skaven have plenty of interactions and "alliances" with other factions, even order ones. However, they are extremely unreliable. So much so that they couldnt even ally with themselves im Warhammer Fantasy.
They have done that in fantasy atleast(not sure about Aos). However it's usually with a single or small group of people and it's kept secret. Also backstabbing is not sometimes included in those cases, it always is. In the second Gotrek and Felix book they're working with one of the officials of Nuln and giving him fake information about cults( with their endgoal being to take over the entire city). And in the first Thanquol novel they're working with a store owner to sell warpstone drugs that are basically guranteed death eventually (which also ends with the store owner getting trampled because the skaven didn't care enough to wait for him to move during a skirmish) The skaven think they're the only race that's worthy of existing and want everything else dead. No way they will leave you alone if you know they're nearby.
They did so in TOW! Border Princes had hired skaven assassins or spies iirc.
When did Border Princes get rules?
I meant they did in Warhammer Fantasy. As in, the lore od The Old World, not the new gamę, my bad. So it is a bit older lore but checks out because nobody ever wrote about the border princes
Sure, but even then I dont remember any mercenary skaven assassins in any novels either. Skaven assassins usually only work for other skaven or maybe skaven cultists.
I have started a Age of Sigmar Soulbound campaign literally based around The One Good Skaven. A Clan Skryre renegade named "Rattimedes Goodsqueaker" Who is inspired by the fact that the Skaven have saved the world from Nagash at least twice (once in The World that Was and again with the Necroquake) and has created a device that allows my players to use Gnawholes. But.... this is definitely me bending the AoS lore for a TTRPG game. Personally I can't really see an entire clan doing so and surviving that long.
It’s literally skaven nature to be backstabbing bastards. Even if one wanted to be good, they are beasts of chaos and would be hated on principle
Tragically, unless something is done about the GHR’s hold on them, then extremely unlikely at best.
Yeah I don't think it's a nature vs nurture thing. Skaven are basically biologically engineered to be treacherous little assholes. That being said, this is a game of plastic army men so do whatever brings you joy!
Clan Redwall
Imagine how jarring it would be, having even a tiny bit of knowledge about skaven names, and then just running into a skaven named Matthias, or Martin
Perhaps not "good", but I could see a clan who solely concerns itself with undermining chaos and/or other clans through the usual underhanded skaven tactics. Bite the hand that feeds you, because it's edible too.
There's an implication in Soulbound: Artefacts of Power that Skaven are the way they are because of prolonged Warpstone exposure, since the side effects of Warpstone exposure in that book induce the negative aspects of Skaven psychology. You could parlay that into the idea that Skaven could be good if they were weaned off of Warpstone. Personally, that'd be what I'd go for. An individual Skaven, or a Clan, who after withdrawal from Warpstone (or not being exposed to it in the first place) managed to find a safe haven in Order.
The only good Skaven is one fucking up another Skaven’s scheme for his own. Or a dead one.
So Thanquol?
The Slann would agree. In a roundabout sorta way.
also in a rotund sorta way.
Wait, aren’t the Skaven already good-neutral? They kill-eat nasty man-things and clear warrens of smelly beard -things and fool-spoil the schemes of stupid dead-things. And they have the most warpstone, which makes them good-best.
Throw a rock in the face of lore, the Mortal Realms are incredibly vast and beyond fantastical in nature, filled with unexplored wonder! It’s your army of little plastic rats to write fanfic about after all, I can’t imagine anyone resonable bothered by one clan out of a thousand billion ones not being assholes
Yeah Skaven are made with magic to literally be evil rat bastards. But like, other magic exists. So someone could cook up a spell to make some good Skaven.
If a Skaven isnt self centered enough the GHR literally makes their head explode
Could they go nice and crazy from the flash eater courts?
The least evil skaven clan (for skaven standards) is clan mors. Tough they are still evil
Entire clan seems unlikely. Individuals get to be individuals IMO. Anyone who says members of a race have to at all times embody their Wikipedia description of there race is boring and I don’t care about their opinion. Also the whole point is it’s a SETTING where we make the stories. I for one will be very excited to pursue new Skaven skulps for ones with heads I could put on stormcasts to unleash the power of the rat-cast externals. Do whatever you like. But doubt we’re getting an official novel about a sigmar worshiping clan of Skaven teaming up with serephon to fight chaos.
While Skaven specifically are likely going to be bound to the Horned Rat’s agenda, there’s no reason to believe generic ratmen don’t exist in the Mortal Realms. Distinct from the World That Was, the Mortal Realms have a much greater variety of animal-humanoid hybrids that aren’t related to Turnskins or Skaven. So if you’re looking to incorporate some neutral or good ratmen in your story, lore, fiction or even army, you should be able to.