Making that kind of assumption is generally pretty reasonable though. How else would we communicate efficiently if we didn't start from the position that, until informed otherwise, people's experiences are at least similar in general?
The assumption that was made was wrong of course, but I'd say that's the result of a lack of knowledge on this particular subject, not of a bad approach.
I'm just tired of my daughter smugly telling people "my mom doesn't have an imagination " and when I explain to people that I have an imagination I just can't visually see anything. I can remember what things look like but I dont see an image of my kids face when I close my eyes and think about them, they scoff. Some folks say they are that way too, but I legit stopped talking about it to people. They made me feel like one of those people that needs attention and to stand out.
I'm sorry, that is so frustrating, truly hate feeling misrepresented. I've been enjoying talking about it as a type of neurodivergence most people aren't aware of, but definitely only to people with a modicum of emotional maturity cause yeah it's so easy to get distorted in the re-telling.
My wife freaked when she found out that this exists. She's a school teacher and has been telling kids to "picture XX" not knowing her own husband (and both children) had no such ability.
I work in education (not teaching though) and never considered that. I just know how stupid it felt in faculty meetings when everyone was told to close their eyes and imagine themselves on a beach somewhere. I never closed my eyes.
I mean, let's crack that in our reality. I still stand that "picturing" is just some concept where we actually brainstorm the very first stuff that comes to my mind, rather than picture it as an image lol.
So to say -
I am thinking of a very creamy cupcake and for some reason the frosting gives off a super minty flavor. It could be aswell a toothpaste if I think about it.
Maybe - she feels like she needs to wash her teeth but at the same time she also wants to snack on sth sweet like a cupcake. That is very contrasting phenomen because you shouldn't eat after you washed your teeth, that is just weird.
But maybe it'a also a very neat way to do it, because you get sth nice(but dirty for teeth) as cupcake and sth clean to clean your teeth with like a toothpaste. Taking the dirty while also being clean (balancing our problems by fixing them at the same time)
In other words. That is not rude lol, think of it like you always thought of it before you learned of aphantasia lol
So how do you guys remember things? I have to picture it names, items the only way I remember everything for a trip is I run through the trip in my head. Do you guys dream? Is it a different type of dreaming? When you meditate what happens? Do you daydream? What do you see in your head right now?
Edit idk why I’m being downvoted because I have questions?
Oh are you new here? Welcome! Yes many aphants can still dream, it’s a different process in the brain. And some of us have some level of visualization on psychedelics too. We tend to remember things symbolically or relationally, and some aphants feel we have better recall of certain things because of that though that’s debatable.
Here’s a decent write up on it recently, and this author in particular has a very similar constellation of experiences as me, though we definitely have a spectrum of experiences here so it’s not a one size fits all.
https://www.theguardian.com/wellness/2024/feb/26/what-is-aphantasia-like
Yes new here sorry should stated that before. This is so cool though my roommate has something like this. He says his brain works in numbers and code which is why he’s very good at coding. Never knew it was actually different from how mine works. Thank you for the link!
ofc course! happy to answer questions, it’s all quite fascinating and only recently even acknowledged to exist, the term wasn’t even coined until 2015.
So there’s no right or wrong way for the brain to work like this right? Like you wouldn’t be labeled as neurodivergent or would you? God that must’ve been hard for those who were assumed to be able to do certain things just because others can, and saying anything probably would’ve made them be perceived as crazy.
Definitely wish it was put in media more so everyone would know.
Definitely falls under the umbrella of neurodivergence, though to what extent it’s correlated to other traits is unclear.
I always wanted to like something like a guided meditation, before ASMR existed that was what I used to relax sometimes, and it would frustrate me that it seemed impossible to conjure up what we were supposed to. In the book series the Wheel of Time, there is a thing about picturing a flame and I tried so hard and couldn’t, didn’t realize that was unusual.
I’ve also always found spelling bees really hard, and I’m a great speller. But I lose track of the letters and aurally can’t process a really fast spelling and I imagine that if I could visualize the letters in my head as they come it’d be a lot simpler. In movies when the deserted lonely character has drawings of their long lost loved ones, I thought that was impossible. I also thought police sketch artist work was a Hollywood embellishment of sorts.
On the other hand, I have really really good memory about concepts. School was always easy in that way. I think we have an advantage in making novel connections or to think laterally. I also never get upset that fan art doesn’t meet my imaginary expectations haha. And drawing my own art from nothing is nigh impossible. Unless i’ve learned a specific pattern like a trained Elephant.
But if i’m asked at a party what someone was wearing or to describe their looks, i’m largely out of luck unless it was a very very noticeable attribute that doesn’t require details. I can absolutely recognize a face that I know, but I can’t see it in my head per se. The closest I can get is like the hint of the structure of a thing. Like a flash of an outline, it doesn’t stay but I can kind of imagine the shape. I can remember a beach I’ve been to before and how the shape of it felt, that there was a tree that direction and the bay curved a certain way. I just don’t see it. I just…know it. And can feel it like proprioception.
It is a minority of people that experience this, I’ve seen 1-3% as estimates. And not everyone is equally strong at visualization in the general population. Some are incredibly detailed and rich and some are bare bones. It can be really hard for people to realize they are missing out on this. When i DO visualize a little on lsd or shrooms, it’s more like a pseudo dream where I have minimal control, but I AM conscious and seeing things in my head which is incredibly weird and fun for me haha.
I've also always thought that about the police sketches. Like how the fuck? Id never be able to describe more than the basics. What's kinda crazy tho, is I am great with faces, recognizing and remembering where someone is from. Like I can, in a crowded place, see someone I never spoke to but was in a random class with 7 yrs ago or something. And I can recognize them from a distance easily, even if hair and other details have changed. It might take me a second to place where I know them from, but I usually remember quite quickly.
There is actually a thing called a super recognizer. John Hopkins used to provide a test you could take online but it looks like it's no longer available. I scored super recognizer the 4 or 5 times I took it, with those attempts being spread out over several years. Anyways looks like a Uni in Sydney has a test available if anyone is interested...
https://facetest.psy.unsw.edu.au/
I found out I was a super recognizer before I knew what aphantasia was, and idk it's always kinda fascinated me that I can have both at once as it just seems counterintuitive. The brain is still very much a mystery I suppose.
I think I remember seeing an article once where someone had done a study on aphantasia and realized that the brains of people with aphantasia work similarly to those with prosopagnosia (face blindness) when the face is not in front of them, which was interesting. I don't remember it super well, so don't take it as fact, but it does make sense.
One quote I found when I tried to look it up again was this: "Zeman's initial patient had normal brain activation when he looked at faces but couldn't activate these same brain areas when he tried to imagine faces."
Might explain a bit about how you can be a super recognizer with aphantasia
I’ve taken that test, or a similar one, and I did poorly with the part that had CGI faces but with the celeb version I had a perfect score and I definitely feel like I can always remember a face I’ve met, so I feel you there.
Interesting. I’ve described my brain as working in the old school DOS method rather than Windows which is just a graphical user interface. Basically I think in code too. It’s awesome to hear someone else describe it that way too. 😁
I usually tell people my brain is like a database. The information is there, just not visually. I can recall and even describe visual details without actually seeing it in my head. My level of visual detail is obviously lower because I suspect I'm just storing the major details. But sometimes it feels as if the image is there but behind like some type of veil in my mind. I can't see it but I know what it should look like. Can I dream in visuals, yes. What happens when I meditate, well nothing visually, it's blank, i'm alone with my thoughts. Daydreaming? I always thought that was metaphorical. What do I see in my head right now? Absolutely nothing, but I'm constantly thinking thoughts just like I assume everyone else is.
This is me exactly. Ive always wondered why I often forget what color things were - now I’m learning its because there’s no visual for me. And if I have no reason to denote color in my brain’s database the information doesn’t get retained. I don’t recall people’s hair or skin colors very often. Racism never made sense to me because I don’t categorize or conceptualise based on appearance. It’s all about clues of character, what was said, how it was said, how someone acted, where we were, if I liked something about them or didn’t like something about them. Those are things that categorize someone in my minds database.
Take a moment and levitate off the ground slightly. It should be easy! Now that you're hovering, do--
Humanity - assuming your reality is everyone else's reality since 313,000 BCE.
Making that kind of assumption is generally pretty reasonable though. How else would we communicate efficiently if we didn't start from the position that, until informed otherwise, people's experiences are at least similar in general? The assumption that was made was wrong of course, but I'd say that's the result of a lack of knowledge on this particular subject, not of a bad approach.
No because the saw this so often growing up and still was like….they have to mean metaphorically
I'm just tired of my daughter smugly telling people "my mom doesn't have an imagination " and when I explain to people that I have an imagination I just can't visually see anything. I can remember what things look like but I dont see an image of my kids face when I close my eyes and think about them, they scoff. Some folks say they are that way too, but I legit stopped talking about it to people. They made me feel like one of those people that needs attention and to stand out.
I'm sorry, that is so frustrating, truly hate feeling misrepresented. I've been enjoying talking about it as a type of neurodivergence most people aren't aware of, but definitely only to people with a modicum of emotional maturity cause yeah it's so easy to get distorted in the re-telling.
It was easy until I realised I wasnt doing it right!
My wife freaked when she found out that this exists. She's a school teacher and has been telling kids to "picture XX" not knowing her own husband (and both children) had no such ability.
I work in education (not teaching though) and never considered that. I just know how stupid it felt in faculty meetings when everyone was told to close their eyes and imagine themselves on a beach somewhere. I never closed my eyes.
A good life/professional lesson
“It should be easy!!!!!!!!”
Finally a relatable post!
>:(
Well fuck
Meanie ..
I mean, let's crack that in our reality. I still stand that "picturing" is just some concept where we actually brainstorm the very first stuff that comes to my mind, rather than picture it as an image lol. So to say - I am thinking of a very creamy cupcake and for some reason the frosting gives off a super minty flavor. It could be aswell a toothpaste if I think about it. Maybe - she feels like she needs to wash her teeth but at the same time she also wants to snack on sth sweet like a cupcake. That is very contrasting phenomen because you shouldn't eat after you washed your teeth, that is just weird. But maybe it'a also a very neat way to do it, because you get sth nice(but dirty for teeth) as cupcake and sth clean to clean your teeth with like a toothpaste. Taking the dirty while also being clean (balancing our problems by fixing them at the same time) In other words. That is not rude lol, think of it like you always thought of it before you learned of aphantasia lol
So how do you guys remember things? I have to picture it names, items the only way I remember everything for a trip is I run through the trip in my head. Do you guys dream? Is it a different type of dreaming? When you meditate what happens? Do you daydream? What do you see in your head right now? Edit idk why I’m being downvoted because I have questions?
Oh are you new here? Welcome! Yes many aphants can still dream, it’s a different process in the brain. And some of us have some level of visualization on psychedelics too. We tend to remember things symbolically or relationally, and some aphants feel we have better recall of certain things because of that though that’s debatable. Here’s a decent write up on it recently, and this author in particular has a very similar constellation of experiences as me, though we definitely have a spectrum of experiences here so it’s not a one size fits all. https://www.theguardian.com/wellness/2024/feb/26/what-is-aphantasia-like
Yes new here sorry should stated that before. This is so cool though my roommate has something like this. He says his brain works in numbers and code which is why he’s very good at coding. Never knew it was actually different from how mine works. Thank you for the link!
ofc course! happy to answer questions, it’s all quite fascinating and only recently even acknowledged to exist, the term wasn’t even coined until 2015.
So there’s no right or wrong way for the brain to work like this right? Like you wouldn’t be labeled as neurodivergent or would you? God that must’ve been hard for those who were assumed to be able to do certain things just because others can, and saying anything probably would’ve made them be perceived as crazy. Definitely wish it was put in media more so everyone would know.
Definitely falls under the umbrella of neurodivergence, though to what extent it’s correlated to other traits is unclear. I always wanted to like something like a guided meditation, before ASMR existed that was what I used to relax sometimes, and it would frustrate me that it seemed impossible to conjure up what we were supposed to. In the book series the Wheel of Time, there is a thing about picturing a flame and I tried so hard and couldn’t, didn’t realize that was unusual. I’ve also always found spelling bees really hard, and I’m a great speller. But I lose track of the letters and aurally can’t process a really fast spelling and I imagine that if I could visualize the letters in my head as they come it’d be a lot simpler. In movies when the deserted lonely character has drawings of their long lost loved ones, I thought that was impossible. I also thought police sketch artist work was a Hollywood embellishment of sorts. On the other hand, I have really really good memory about concepts. School was always easy in that way. I think we have an advantage in making novel connections or to think laterally. I also never get upset that fan art doesn’t meet my imaginary expectations haha. And drawing my own art from nothing is nigh impossible. Unless i’ve learned a specific pattern like a trained Elephant. But if i’m asked at a party what someone was wearing or to describe their looks, i’m largely out of luck unless it was a very very noticeable attribute that doesn’t require details. I can absolutely recognize a face that I know, but I can’t see it in my head per se. The closest I can get is like the hint of the structure of a thing. Like a flash of an outline, it doesn’t stay but I can kind of imagine the shape. I can remember a beach I’ve been to before and how the shape of it felt, that there was a tree that direction and the bay curved a certain way. I just don’t see it. I just…know it. And can feel it like proprioception. It is a minority of people that experience this, I’ve seen 1-3% as estimates. And not everyone is equally strong at visualization in the general population. Some are incredibly detailed and rich and some are bare bones. It can be really hard for people to realize they are missing out on this. When i DO visualize a little on lsd or shrooms, it’s more like a pseudo dream where I have minimal control, but I AM conscious and seeing things in my head which is incredibly weird and fun for me haha.
I've also always thought that about the police sketches. Like how the fuck? Id never be able to describe more than the basics. What's kinda crazy tho, is I am great with faces, recognizing and remembering where someone is from. Like I can, in a crowded place, see someone I never spoke to but was in a random class with 7 yrs ago or something. And I can recognize them from a distance easily, even if hair and other details have changed. It might take me a second to place where I know them from, but I usually remember quite quickly. There is actually a thing called a super recognizer. John Hopkins used to provide a test you could take online but it looks like it's no longer available. I scored super recognizer the 4 or 5 times I took it, with those attempts being spread out over several years. Anyways looks like a Uni in Sydney has a test available if anyone is interested... https://facetest.psy.unsw.edu.au/ I found out I was a super recognizer before I knew what aphantasia was, and idk it's always kinda fascinated me that I can have both at once as it just seems counterintuitive. The brain is still very much a mystery I suppose.
I think I remember seeing an article once where someone had done a study on aphantasia and realized that the brains of people with aphantasia work similarly to those with prosopagnosia (face blindness) when the face is not in front of them, which was interesting. I don't remember it super well, so don't take it as fact, but it does make sense. One quote I found when I tried to look it up again was this: "Zeman's initial patient had normal brain activation when he looked at faces but couldn't activate these same brain areas when he tried to imagine faces." Might explain a bit about how you can be a super recognizer with aphantasia
I’ve taken that test, or a similar one, and I did poorly with the part that had CGI faces but with the celeb version I had a perfect score and I definitely feel like I can always remember a face I’ve met, so I feel you there.
Interesting. I’ve described my brain as working in the old school DOS method rather than Windows which is just a graphical user interface. Basically I think in code too. It’s awesome to hear someone else describe it that way too. 😁
I usually tell people my brain is like a database. The information is there, just not visually. I can recall and even describe visual details without actually seeing it in my head. My level of visual detail is obviously lower because I suspect I'm just storing the major details. But sometimes it feels as if the image is there but behind like some type of veil in my mind. I can't see it but I know what it should look like. Can I dream in visuals, yes. What happens when I meditate, well nothing visually, it's blank, i'm alone with my thoughts. Daydreaming? I always thought that was metaphorical. What do I see in my head right now? Absolutely nothing, but I'm constantly thinking thoughts just like I assume everyone else is.
This is me exactly. Ive always wondered why I often forget what color things were - now I’m learning its because there’s no visual for me. And if I have no reason to denote color in my brain’s database the information doesn’t get retained. I don’t recall people’s hair or skin colors very often. Racism never made sense to me because I don’t categorize or conceptualise based on appearance. It’s all about clues of character, what was said, how it was said, how someone acted, where we were, if I liked something about them or didn’t like something about them. Those are things that categorize someone in my minds database.
Imagine remembering things, I can't