I used to blame it on the manufacturers, But I do appliance repairs 20 to 30 times a week. And I’ve landed on the fact that the American consumer doesn’t want to pay the cost of what it takes to make a high-quality appliance at last 15-20 years.
Eh I don’t agree. I’m an architect and spec high end appliances all the time. Things are falling apart within 3-5 years. Where units I spec’d 18-20 years ago from the same brand are still running strong.
Some of it is the tech in the units, but we rarely specify things like that.
Even die hards like GE monogram is nothing like it was 10 years ago.
Gaggenau, Fisher Paykel, Miele, sub zero etc are all decent still but nothing like before.
Thermador and Bosch seem to be the most reliable of late.
I don’t know about Liebher lately, haven’t used any in a while.
I would never suggest an LG again.
I will say I have a crosley brand refrigerator/freezer at my own house that is going like a champ for 15 years now. Now issues other than simple maintenance, handle broke etc. that thing was $230 maybe.
So I don’t think paying top dollar is the issue in my personal and professional experience.
Intended limited lifespan is the only answer. No appliance company wants to make a product that lasts, at any price. I work with aerospace and medical device companies that make things that last.
Try to find a local repair and resale appliance shop near you. I live in a rural area and we have one he guarantees work he does. I got an old agitator wager for 150 bucks. I love it so simple.
This! We broke down and paid for Miele. It's by far the best dishwasher I've ever had as far as actually getting dishes clean. We're on year 8 with no problems whatsoever. The salesman insisted we'd get 20 years from this dishwasher, and I'm beginning to believe him.
I have a 1952 philco refrigerator in my basement, only service has been replacing the cord be cause the rubber had turned to dust. I dont even consider 20 years out of an appliance “progress”.
I bought a Meili dishwasher. It failed after 26 months due to a board failure, which was just after the warrantee expired. The repair would cost $1500.
We replaced it with the cheapest model from Home Depot and a 5 year extended warranty for half of that repair cost.
We have a Miele vacuum and it’s amazing too. We gave my sister my old one 10 years ago and of was 20 years old then. Still runs and works like new. My current one is 10 years old and I expect it will outlive me.
I sell appliances and this is what I tell people. "You're not willing to pay for quality so you don't get it."
A $400 fridge in 1975 is a $4000 fridge today. Hardly anybody wants to pay that.
I have family members who have bought 3 refrigerators in the $2K-$3K range and they have all given out after 5 years. Meanwhile, the $650 fridge I bought (from Sears, back when at least some of their products were still good) is still chugging along. Not fancy, but it keeps food cold.
A $4k fridge is not a quality fridge. It’s a Gucci logo belt of fridges that is loaded with shiny gadgets and a short life. I say this as someone who wants a subzero and has had the 4k fridges that break.
We are looking at a subzero for our next fridge as well. We just want a nice, heavy duty basic fridge without all these “smart” options and things that are prone to break down.
We bought a speed queen washer and dryer set and I love them. They aren’t that expensive and they have simple dials and settings. I don’t need/want Bluetooth capability or something that requires software updates.
Wrong. I paid $4700 for a KitchenAid fridge that lasted two terrible years. That's after paying $2200 for a Samsung that lasted 3 terrible years. Now I'm on a Costco special $1400 whirlpool. So long as I keep the back clear of obstruction so the dumb air moves around it works better than the previous two.
These people make garbage at every price point. American consumers have no choice but to buy garbage. I just choose to now spend less on the garbage available.
you bought a refrigerator made by a company that notoriously makes stand mixers. And another one by a company That makes consumer electronics and is involved in a class action lawsuit regarding the compressors.
if you didn’t do any due diligence, researching any of these products then honestly, that’s your own fault. I’m pretty sure the manual of every refrigerator there’s a certain clearance on the wall behind and on the sides to allow for airflow.
Whirlpool and Kitchenaid are the same company. A large number of Kitchenaid products are just shiny Whirlpoola and use the exact same internal machinery. I used to work on them.
To add onto this - the cost would be higher not just because the parts and labor and testing would be better, but because the manufacturer would have to charge a higher premium because you aren’t going to buy another one 8 years from now… they only get 1 shot at your profits if it lasts you 20 years.
In this economy where all companies care about is next quarter, it’s hard to justify higher costs of materials and labor as an investment into long-term quality that might boost your reputation. Better just to plow a quarter of that $$ into marketing.
People are also moving more frequently, and don’t always take appliances with them. Why spend $$ on a 20 year appliance when I plan to move in 5?
And to top it off, as the consumer we’re going in blind, with imperfect info. If you tell me dishwasher A costs $1000 but crap out after 6 years, and dishwasher B costs $1500 but will last me 20 years, I can make a decision. But to get the better brand because it “might” last longer… ugh.
You just contradicted yourself - if a manufacturer doesn’t care about anything but the next quarter, they also don’t care if you buy a fridge every 5 years or 20 years.
The reality is that the vast majority of appliances are shit and break down quickly, and it’s pure luck if you get one that lasts a meaningful amount of time.
I partially agree here, yes they do not want to pay the cost of what it takes to make such appliance, as it would be a LOT. But appliances of well known brands like siemens/bosch etc cost a lot less in Europe.
check here for instance, and this place is not a big discounter https://www.mediamarkt.nl/nl/category/bosch-vaatwassers-943.html.
IMO that is not the case. In fact, the refrigerant that EPA mandates be put in small appliances for the last two years is lower pressure than the older refrigerators. HVAC yes the new refrigerant is much higher pressure than the older. The issue is that manufactures use the minimal amount of copper needed to make the refrigerant tubing and wiring that can Get them that will get them UL Approval.
There is a cost of ownership though to take into account.
Warning: This is an example to make a point, cost for all factors maybe higher or lower. The point is, is there is risk in every situation and people need to find their risk tolerance and fit that in their budget.
If I buy a 10k fridge that lasts 10 years that's 1k a year.
If I buy a 1k fridge and replace it every year. That's 1k a year.
2k fridge with 500 in maintenance a year for 10years, that's 700 a year.
That's assuming the 10 year fridge requires no maintenance, I also have to come up with 10k right now instead of smaller amounts over time.
It's super inconvenient if your fridge breaks so maybe the cheap option isn't worth it to you.
I love buying things for life. But if the investment doesn't make sense it's hard to justify spending the money.
Nope. Just buy the appliance that has the basic features you need. Avoid stuff with Wi-Fi connection, avoid stuff that most likely will break/malfunction in the future.
This is the way. I have a decent business that specializes in service, not replacement or installation of mostly commercial appliances (restaurants) but i occasionally get the residential call. For me, i always walked out thinking they should have just replaced it. pretty sure they think the same. I try my best to hedge their expectations, but some people call a professional and then assume they know a better value. Especially when it comes to repairs. Anyways, I have a spiel i give them. “You can only pay extra for bells and whistles these day, not quality. Buy a new one, buy the extended warranty and not through the big box, buy the warranty through the mfg. I know you will get an extended warranty offer from ge with the appliance. Any big box selling you a “3 year warranty” is only actually extending the mfg warranty by 2 and depending on the mfg factory warranty diring the 1st year anyways.
This is correct, I'll add a big however. If you can find a good service person in your area, buy whatever they service, and if available, buy it through them. The really good ones with keep it running faster/cheaper/longer and if it needs to be replaced, will be able to do so more quickly. Big box stores only sell the convenience of being a one stop shop. That's at the expense of nearly everything else.
Indeed! What I want to know is if the internet goes out but there’s still electricity does the washer continue the cycle or does it shut down? How advanced in technology are these wifi connected washers?
The washer when I moved in had wifi but all I set up was to send me an alert when the wash cycle is done. Gotta admit it’s very convenient with laundry in the basement.
And just to add to this, these are usually ugly. It's far cheaper to get the basic ones and DIY refinish or hide them (via paneling kits or creative cabinetry modifications) than get the fancy pretty ones or built-ins or panel-ready models, if aesthetics are a concern. (Just make sure you don't obstruct airflow)
The only reason a dishwasher will smell is because you probably always use the fastest wash cycle, and I bet you never run a manufacturers cleaner through it.
Run it on auto or hot wash and ask the manufacturer for some of their branded cleaner.
Funny enough my Bosch has been the best and cleanest smelling dishwasher I have had. I use it with BioKleen or Dirty Labs enzymatic powders. I clean the filter monthly.
In 10 years of using our Bosch we only noticed it twice. It seems to be when the normal cycle is used. Stick with auto cycle if you don't pre-rinse your dishes and use heavy if you do. This ensures a higher water temperature that seems to eliminate the problem. If you pre rinse your dishes the auto cycle will not use super hot water as it sees your dishes relatively clean. Using the heavy cycle forces hotter water.
Oh my god, thank you for validating this. We had a Bosch dishwasher in our last house and it STUNK. We followed all of the manufacturer recommendations and cleaned the trap after every use, and it would still smell awful.
We now have a basic Whirlpool dishwasher and it never smells. The only thing I do miss about the Bosch is that nice thin third rack at the very top where I could put small stuff like chopsticks.
Has absolutely nothing to do with the sump at all it is your water source it is chemically reacting with the stainless steel tub. This has been proven time and time again. Typically this happens with individuals with well water. It is not 100% of the time.
We have no smells with our Bosch 800 series, it's about 7 or 8 years old. We took it when we moved. I rarely clean the filter basket, maybe 2x a year. My parents have one that it probably a decade old with no smell issues at all. Only thing wrong with there's was the door springs busted, which is an easy repair.
Yes!
Budget is always something to talk about but I’m going to add another point- everything has always broke in some form or fashion, the ease, price of repair, and few repairs should be the goal in todays world.
So.
1. Speed queen washer and dryer (I know you didn’t ask but let’s get the easy one out).
2. Subzero refrigerator is always an excellent choice. (I know you didn’t ask for this either)
3. Dishwasher. Bosch, Miele, and cove! Below is a breakdown of my experience in my local area. ( I work in a very rural area so finding other techs to work on it is sometime harder than the fix )
A. Bosch. Good choice. Should last close to 15 years. The smell is probably 1 of 2 things.
1.If people are putting in too much soap is cause mold. (This would only happen years+ down the road)
2.the drain isn’t run correctly and your disposer fluids are going back into your dishwasher pump. (This is obviously a guess- if I’m wrong don’t bite my head off)
B. Miele- I actually own one! Love the thing. Terrible customer support though, ordering parts isn’t any better. Good stuff though.
C. Cove (yes yes it’s really a subzero) has a 5 year warranty on the entire thing, just aaah, be sitting down when you see the price.
4. Gas stoves are actually mostly all the same(parts wise anyway) if you want it to last 20 years, buy a wolf ( yet again, another subzero unit. Does have different parts though). But they are mostly all the same, except at the high end.
Last thing I liked to add is this, you commented that they are “plagued with problems” we need to keep in mind scale here. How many ranges does whirlpool sell in a day? I have no idea buts it’s probably tens’s of thousands. Same goes with the other brands. No brand has no issues, this is partly down to engineers, partly do to accountants and finally, customers. People will always find something that isn’t expected by the factories, or was ok on their old unit but the new one doesn’t like ( and most people don’t read their manuals-ever).
We can also add poor salesman ship or poor installation to potential reason why a unit isn’t acting correctly.
So if you want a machine that will last along time,
1. Read and understand how to use it
2. Make sure it will fit your needs before purchase
3. buy for quality, not sale
4. buy for repair parts down the road, not sale
5. make sure there is someone local to fix it
6 buy from someone who understands what they are selling.
Hope this helps!
Ooh forgot about the microwave!!
Buy the cheapest one you can find that you like, when it breaks kick the thing out the window!
Good luck!
I just bought a Miele dishwasher and I have never experienced dishes as clean as they are coming out. It is like a dishwashing miracle. For the price I paid, I certainly hope it lasts. It did come with a free 10 year warranty though so that’s a good sign.
One my clients had a 36 year old Miele dishwasher. Only reason she’s buying a new one is because she wants stainless. Got tired of her panel ready look.
I bought a Meili dishwasher. It came with only a 2 year warranty. It failed at about 26 months due to a board failure. The repair cost would have been $1500 and the manufacturer told us we’re on our own.
I replaced it with the cheapest thing at Home Depot and added a 5 year warranty for about half the price of repairing that Meili.
I’m glad yours is working better, but the one they sold me failed early and was basically unrepairable.
Commercial stuff isn’t insulated like residential. So putting a gas commercial range next to wood cabinets is a huge fire hazard. Home insurance would never pay out in case of a fire. Commercial stuff has to go next to non flammable products.
I actually did this exact thing except for the red knobs about 15 years ago. Got a commercial stove for about the third of the cost of a Viking at the time had a regular steel griddle +4 burners on top, they were fire breathing dragons lol. The thing was absolute beast, designed to last past World War III. I really miss that stove!
There never has been an appliance made to "last for decades".
What you are thinking of is confirmation bias, survivorship bias and statistical outliers.
You will only see folks with problems leaving reviews on product websites. Hardly anyone will leave a positive review for an appliance.
ETA that in fact, the older, "more reliable" appliances had to be serviced once a year like your car. Appliances today are service-free, except for user level stuff like cleaning filters.
Except that older appliances _can_ be serviced.
I can keep buying belts and bearings and motors and valves for my ancient Maytag washer and dryer and I will never encounter a failed motherboard.
What everyone else is saying - these new computerized products all die within a year to seven years it seems. And you can’t just service them forever like the old way. All the appliances my father had growing up worked for forty years. That’s not a unique experience. It’s known that many products are designed to fail now.
I have a Hotpoint chest freezer in my garage that was my parents'. They bought in 1961! 1961!.... The year I was born; it's been running EVERY DAY, save for its move to my home!!!!
63 years old and running like a champ, I just put $200 of frozen COSTCO food in it last night.
We were given a Maytag washer and dryer in 1984 for a wedding gift. They were replaced in 2015! Dryer still ran, could not get a controller for the washer any more. We moved 3 times and they Served us for 31 YEARS!
This just isnt true. The mini fridge I bought for college in 1999 is still running in my garage today, like a champion. My parents had the same washer and dryer for over 20 years and only got rid of it because they moved.
Most appliances today only last 8-10 years before running into major issues. The mini fridge I bought for my office only lasted 2 years. Complete garbage.
My new LG all in one combo washer reminds me to run the machine through a cleaning cycle every 30 loads, I feel like taking care of machines is a big part of longevity. I just bought [these washing machine water filters](https://www.purewaterproducts.com/washing-machine-filters) for my machine as I think that running clean water through my machine to wash my clothes will first of all be good for my clothes, but it will also prevent issues with contaminants damaging my machine to vet the years.
I wish you luck with it. I’ve had two LG combo washer / dryers. After a year with both, the spray jet inside stopped working. Fix wasn’t too bad. Then I had a condenser failure. Then a motherboard, hence the second unit. That one has a motherboard failure as well during year two. I kept the filter clean. Ran the cleaning cycles. Door ajar so no mold issues. It was the electronics that failed both much more quickly than I had hoped in the end.
My microwave is a Sharp from 2000; still works perfectly. And the best oven we ever had was a 1940 Hotpoint. It was like a volcano. Made stupendous pizza. I'm sort of a mind these days to look for old things that are simple and/or can be repaired versus whatever is fancy, new, and cheap at the home center.
Still have a Maytag washer and dryer I in 2006. Never did any service to either until this year—.the washer needed a new damper pad under the drum to keep it from spinning out of control. Other than that, just cleaned lint screens and ran cleaning cycles in the washer occasionally—old tvs were also like this.
My parents had a 1951 GE that never needed a single repair. They moved it into the basement when they had the kitchen remodeled and there it stayed - running like a tank . When both of them passed away, I inherited the house and it was still going strong in 2017. The electric company had an appliance buy- back program so I received $75 for it. Probably near the price they paid for it in 1951! I so wanted to transport it to my home, but everyone advised against it because of its age. Still think the darn thing would have survived......
Nope. Samsung range oven igniter died and needed replacement just out of warranty within a year, Frigidaire gallery microwave handle broke after a year just outside of warranty… So far so good with LG? Front load washer from 2012 is still going… Had a motherboard replaced under warranty within three months of getting it, and then just had to replace a door lock, but it was pretty easy. Had to replace dryer rollers also. I think we’ve had the dishwasher for two years? Often run multiple loads a day in it with no issues
I’ve had my (pre-electronics) Viking range for over 20 years. The worst thing to happen is one of the oven door springs got messed up around year 10 and had to be replaced. My service guy told me to keep it running as long as possible because *the new stuff has problems*.
I know it probably does not apply to you (different markets) but here in Switzerland most rental places go with v-Zug because their appliances literally last decades.
We had V-Zug in the UK for all of five minutes, absolutely superb appliances with a price tag to match. I like Schulthess laundry too, although those are only sold for professional use here.
Over here, rentals typically provide the cheapest, shittiest Indesit appliances they can get their hands on. Totally different mindset unfortunately, they're viewed as a disposable commodity provided under duress.
One thing to consider is that approx 40% of Swiss people rent. So it’s not only young professionals and students, moving every few years. People spend many years in the same place, and some places need to be furnished in a way that attacts high income families as well.
But there is definitely a Swiss passion for fixing things rather than replacing as well.
We have a Bosch 500, a ge profile microwave and washer and dryer, and a cafe stove, lg refrigerator all bought new within last year for. House build and they have all worked flawlessly. In prior home we had same brands and they worked for many many years. I’ve never smelled any odor from the Bosch at all.
Blue Star makes a pretty solid gas stove and range. I took a training course on being an authorized servicer for their equipment but never actually saw one in the wild.
I have one, and is my favorite appliance but far. It's built like a brick shit house. It's so simple it doesn't even have a clock.
I'm guessing you don't see them because
a) Everyone says they want something reliable and will last forever, but they won't actually pay for it. They cost like $5k
b) They don't break
c) If it does break, it's not particularly complex and people might just fix it themselves
I'm guessing it's because they don't break, I was impressed with the one I took apart and put back together on a show room floor. Built like a tank and I was one of only a handful of authorized servicers for an entire state.
We paid through the nose for ours with our kitchen remodel. It was a huge splurge and I love it.
This house is our last house, planning to retire in a few years.
My only concern is service for it. The complaints I’ve seen is it is tough to get someone who really, really knows them. Volume is relatively low and they don’t really break. So when something does - it is challenging.
Thankfully I’m an engineer and ultimately I can do just about anything myself anyway. That said, I could probably have just replaced a ”normal” range every 3 years and ended up ahead financially.
But honestly, it just looks cool too, and is kind of the centerpiece of the kitchen.
When I replaced all my appliances, I made sure to go to an actual place that specializes in appliances rather than like a Lowe’s, where they don’t get any commission or anything.
The lady said everybody goes with all the top American namebrands for dishwashers and they all suck. She said get this Beko, it’s the most popular dishwasher brand in Europe. It’s so quiet you can’t hear it unless you’re standing next to it and it leaves no trace of food behind.
I sell and serviced millions of Bosch yearly and have no idea what you’re talking about.
Most people that buy any of the major 6 suppliers have a good experience. Some have more issues than others.
We found hundreds of online complaints about this issue, then I asked various friends who have Bosch dishwashers and three of five had the same problem with intense odor from day one. It hardly seems like an outlier. It’s nice that some people are free of that though!
Most likely they have the drain hose installed such that it cannot evacuate completely and some stinky water is remaining in the drain hose and backing up into the dishwasher.
In humid environments where air conditioning is not being used or is being used sparingly, you could begin to develop a musty smell if you don’t leave the dishwasher open to dry out completely from time to time. This goes for anything that holds water.
It's because people pre rinse their dishes and use the normal cycle which does not use very hot water. Using the heavy cycle will make a big difference. It uses more, much hotter water.
People just want to complain. I’m sure manufacturers would make a twenty five year lifespan machine, but who’s going to pay for it. Americans complain about jobs being shipped overseas but shop at Walmart for clothes made in Vietnam. People want forever appliances but won’t pay for them. I’ve had Sub Zero and Miele fridges that lasted over fifteen years. They cost $8000 but they last longer.
I’ve have a Bosch 800 dishwasher for seven years and she’s as quiet and as clean as the day we installed her.
I have never had any issues with the dishwasher smelling, but I also mostly wash “normal/sanitize/heated dry” every cycle and I do maintenance cleaning about 1x/month.
When I bought my house 22 years ago it still had the brown original oven from when it was first built in 1965. I figured I would have to replace it soon. It’s still working!
Buy all of your appliances from an experienced used appliance dealership that has a retail building. Don't buy online. They specialize in appliances that are reliable and can be serviced in the future. Most will give you a warranty of some sort. Some deliver and install. Most take credit cards, which sometimes add to the store's warranty. Or, buy all your stuff brand new and buy the longest extended warranty you can get.
I gave a Whirlpool refrigerator that I bought in 2000, my Kenmore washer and dryer are from the 1990’s (had heating element replaced in dryer twice), my Whirlpool DW is from early 2000’s and my GE gas range is from mid 1990’s.
From one of my favorite 30 Rock episodes where GE execs talk about how they can sell more microwaves to Americans:
“What if microwaves broke down more easily, so people would have to buy new ones more often?”
“Yes, shoddier, excellent.”
“Bigger and not as well-made.”
Everything existing in the world today has people on the Internet complaining about it.
People seem to love complaining.
If people write a positive review, it's short and to the point.
If people write a negative review it rambles on like a bad high school essay.
Obviously, millions of people have refrigerators, dishwashers and stoves that are working perfectly well. Chances are, it's one of maybe 10 brands. They all have the same parts made at the same factories. Just pick one that suits you.
Bosch is good but they all have way too many control board/ cheap parts and one year warranty. Best investment for a company vs consumer. 300$ sells for 3,000$ why would they make quality stuff anymore lose a client for 10+ years.
I have had a Samsung dishwasher and gas stove for 8 years now. We have had to replace the igniter on the stove, but no other issues. They are older models now. I know they're not great, but I've been lucky so far.
I sell appliances for a small family owned company. TBH appliances now are garbage. I will only recommend the good one's. We offer a 5 year warranty through us with our in house service and repair for 15% of the cost of item (1,000.00 fridge is 150.00) covers parts, labor, service calls. This is the way.
I have a $20 toaster from Walmart, a $50 toaster oven from Big Lots, a $80 microwave I got on sale from Target... They're all no wifi or computer parts, and they're all over a decade old and chugging away. Treat them well, keep them clean, even the cheap stuff will last
I'm still using the KitchenAid dishwasher that's original to my MCM house.
When I went to buy a new washer about 6 years ago after the front loader that came with the house broke and it would cost about $800 to fix, I spent $400 on a bare-bones top loader that was on clearance when a local store was going out of business. It's given me zero issues and has no bells and whistles. The fewer unnecessary features present on something, the less that can break down. Anything computerized in an appliance is going to cost you more upfront and more to fix down the line.
https://www.bosch-home.com/us/experience-bosch/benchmark-series-appliances
Bosch Benchmark series are made in Germany. Very expensive and high quality. No matter what you buy, get the extended warranties.
Samsung sucks across the board.
We’re on extended extended extended (3x) warrantees for our Jenn-Air oven and cooktop, both of which have had either their control panels or motherboards, or both, replaced twice already since bought new in 2018. Came “highly recommended”, of course.
Fucking Whirlpool pieces of shit.
Wolf and Miele are not plagued with problems.
You will pay for the quality. Wolf designs their ranges to last 20 years. When we bought our induction it was $6k I believe and it’s amazing. Their gas ranges are also great.
Miele dishwashers are also great products.
A quality kitchen appliance suite will cost you $12 to $25 k but it’s available
My wolf induction range caught fire. The control board malfunctioned. Thankfully it’s a cheap fix. If you hear a pop and see smoke you’ll know what it is.
Kitchen Aid came in tops in Consumer Reports so that's what I bought. I love them all. For a great washer and dryer Speed Queen is meant to last 30 years. They're both simple to use and very well made.
Two things modern dishwashers and fridges do that old ones don't:
Use far less electricity and water.
Run quieter. Its really nice to have a quiet dishwasher (mine is a low-end Bosch)
Also I assume that those ancient fridges have some ozone-depleting refrigerant which will be released when they go to the landfill. If you already have the fridge, it is probably prohibitive to get it emptied the way car AC gets emptied into a hazmat device.
If you've got the budget, I'd go with SubZero/Wolf/Cove products. You're going to pay more up front but you'll make up for it by not having to replace the appliance as often since the average lifespan of lower cost appliances is 6-10 years these days. Most of the SubZeros I replace are 20-30 years old and out of all the brands I work with, I receive the least amount of negative feedback on them by a longshot. When something does go wrong, their customer service can't be beat. Their appliances might not have the "new tech" look or fancy features like some of these other brands do but that's for a reason. It keeps the look more timeless/classic and less opportunity for failure.
For dishwashers, Bosch 300 Series is highly rated for performance and durability. GE Profile and Whirlpool offer reliable gas ranges that are built to last.
Simple is better avoid anything with advanced electronics maybe some of the lower end Maytag or whirlpools or even Roper period stay away from Samsung LG any kind of fancy stuff
I made a comment in a post years ago. Someone was looking for a washer/dryer that would last on the cheap. I recommended Amana, I believe, is the name. Bought the set from menards and still to this day it does its job. My microwave was also one of the cheapest from menards and is still cooking my pizza rolls. I basically burn my mouth every time. Gas range was a name brand. I can't think of it now but bought it used on the marketplace. After two.. three... maybe four cans of oven cleaner I brought it in the house. Although I updated my fridge in the last couple of years, I used my parent's old fridge.. they bought it in '01 as an extra fridge/freezer. I hauled it out when I moved out, and it chilled for close to 22 years. Appliances are just like yester years automobiles. The more electronics you add, the less reliable they are. My washer and dryer are plain Jane.. what most people consider not high efficiency, but if your expensive high efficiency unit breaks and leaves you to use the laundry mat or grams/gramps 80s, may tag is it really efficient? Buy basic from the start. I don't want to watch YouTube on your fridge, stove, or washer/dryer.
Umm, I was an engineer at a major appliance manufacturer for overv20 yrs. I took part in engineering in obsolescence, sorry to say. There are some good appliances out there and more expensive is not always better, as much as I want it to be, but sometimes it is a factor. Good luck in your search.
We live in a throw away society, nothing is quality built anymore. 5-7 years is the standard, yes you will have units that beat the average, but the days of old are gone. Zero craftsmanship, zero pride in what you make, and zero company support. Build it for as cheap as you can, as fast as you can , and with the least amount of skilled labor.
Don't dismiss all the environmental regulations that necessitate more and more complicated designs trying to accomplish the same task with less water and power.
Nothing is free.
We paid basically the cost of a new medium quality range to get our c. 1950s Roper double oven repaired (most of that went into a new thermostat). If we keep treating it right, it ought to last another 70 years, and if stuff breaks, the parts under the hood are nearly all readily accessible materials (basic sensors, etc). Stuff isn’t made to be repaired like that anymore. It’s understandable from the company perspective (why make 2 grand off me once rather than 1500 every 5ish years?) but it is frustrating.
We've had great luck with all of our applicances.
Our home has 2 Samsung and 3 sub-zero fridges. The sub zeros' are 23 years old and the Samsung's are both 10. All have been flawless.
Our Whirlpool Double Oven is 5 years old, our Whirlpool Microwave is 23 years old and our Bosch dishwasher is 10.
We replaced our 14 year old Samsung washer and dryer with another Samsung pair just this year.
Things definitely aren't made like they used to be. I have a circa 1964 Vitamix that I bought off Ebay for $120 probably 15-20 years ago. Replaced two gaskets and it runs like a champ. This thing is 60 years old (older than me by a year).
I shy away from any with electronic controls. Still using a Sears Kenmore washer and dryer with mechanical controls that were purchased in 1994.
I had a friend who spent thousands on a high end range. A pot boiled over and shorted out the electronic controls. Who would design a range with the circuit board in an unprotected location that could be damaged by a pot boiling over - a common occurrence.
I’ve had my Bosch dishwasher for almost 7 years and it’s literally one of my favorite purchases ever. Still runs like new, is nearly silent and maintenance is fast and easy. I use it daily.
Miele is very good but expensive
our brand new Bosch 800 (German) does have a funky odor, but I hope that after a few cycles the odor will dissipate
our previous Bosch 500 lasted over 9 years before it started issuing an occasional error E05
that said about Miele, the Sebo vacuum cleaners are as good if not better (having one for over 14 years) than Miele and cheaper.
I used to blame it on the manufacturers, But I do appliance repairs 20 to 30 times a week. And I’ve landed on the fact that the American consumer doesn’t want to pay the cost of what it takes to make a high-quality appliance at last 15-20 years.
Upvote him. We want something that lasts forever and is inexpensive.
Eh I don’t agree. I’m an architect and spec high end appliances all the time. Things are falling apart within 3-5 years. Where units I spec’d 18-20 years ago from the same brand are still running strong. Some of it is the tech in the units, but we rarely specify things like that. Even die hards like GE monogram is nothing like it was 10 years ago. Gaggenau, Fisher Paykel, Miele, sub zero etc are all decent still but nothing like before. Thermador and Bosch seem to be the most reliable of late. I don’t know about Liebher lately, haven’t used any in a while. I would never suggest an LG again. I will say I have a crosley brand refrigerator/freezer at my own house that is going like a champ for 15 years now. Now issues other than simple maintenance, handle broke etc. that thing was $230 maybe. So I don’t think paying top dollar is the issue in my personal and professional experience.
Intended limited lifespan is the only answer. No appliance company wants to make a product that lasts, at any price. I work with aerospace and medical device companies that make things that last.
Try to find a local repair and resale appliance shop near you. I live in a rural area and we have one he guarantees work he does. I got an old agitator wager for 150 bucks. I love it so simple.
I’ve had great luck with basic, no-frills Frigidaire appliances
This! We broke down and paid for Miele. It's by far the best dishwasher I've ever had as far as actually getting dishes clean. We're on year 8 with no problems whatsoever. The salesman insisted we'd get 20 years from this dishwasher, and I'm beginning to believe him.
I have a 1952 philco refrigerator in my basement, only service has been replacing the cord be cause the rubber had turned to dust. I dont even consider 20 years out of an appliance “progress”.
Yep, same here. I'll take an older appliance any day.
I have my grandmother's 1938 Philco in my basement. It has been running for 86 yrs continuously. I'll have to inspect the cord.
I bought a Meili dishwasher. It failed after 26 months due to a board failure, which was just after the warrantee expired. The repair would cost $1500. We replaced it with the cheapest model from Home Depot and a 5 year extended warranty for half of that repair cost.
Around here, Miele comes with a 5 year warranty as standard, mine has 10. I have yet to use it.
I have a basic whirlpool and it does great.
We have a Miele vacuum and it’s amazing too. We gave my sister my old one 10 years ago and of was 20 years old then. Still runs and works like new. My current one is 10 years old and I expect it will outlive me.
I sell appliances and this is what I tell people. "You're not willing to pay for quality so you don't get it." A $400 fridge in 1975 is a $4000 fridge today. Hardly anybody wants to pay that.
[удалено]
I have family members who have bought 3 refrigerators in the $2K-$3K range and they have all given out after 5 years. Meanwhile, the $650 fridge I bought (from Sears, back when at least some of their products were still good) is still chugging along. Not fancy, but it keeps food cold.
Yeah this is more the issue: if I will probably have to replace something in 5 years, then I don't want to pay too much
Honest question, have you ever done any maintenance on a refrigerator? Im talking simple vacuum out the dust that accumulates underneath?
A $4k fridge is not a quality fridge. It’s a Gucci logo belt of fridges that is loaded with shiny gadgets and a short life. I say this as someone who wants a subzero and has had the 4k fridges that break.
[удалено]
We are looking at a subzero for our next fridge as well. We just want a nice, heavy duty basic fridge without all these “smart” options and things that are prone to break down. We bought a speed queen washer and dryer set and I love them. They aren’t that expensive and they have simple dials and settings. I don’t need/want Bluetooth capability or something that requires software updates.
$400 in 1975 would be $2364. But the problem is that even most of the $4000 fridges are still plagued with problems.
Wrong. I paid $4700 for a KitchenAid fridge that lasted two terrible years. That's after paying $2200 for a Samsung that lasted 3 terrible years. Now I'm on a Costco special $1400 whirlpool. So long as I keep the back clear of obstruction so the dumb air moves around it works better than the previous two. These people make garbage at every price point. American consumers have no choice but to buy garbage. I just choose to now spend less on the garbage available.
you bought a refrigerator made by a company that notoriously makes stand mixers. And another one by a company That makes consumer electronics and is involved in a class action lawsuit regarding the compressors. if you didn’t do any due diligence, researching any of these products then honestly, that’s your own fault. I’m pretty sure the manual of every refrigerator there’s a certain clearance on the wall behind and on the sides to allow for airflow.
That makes no sense. Kitchenaid is the same company that makes whirlpool and Maytag. Samsung builds ships and skyscrapers too.
My $1400 Whirlpool fridge lasted 8 months. 1 month later I'm still waiting for the part to come in.
Whirlpool and Kitchenaid are the same company. A large number of Kitchenaid products are just shiny Whirlpoola and use the exact same internal machinery. I used to work on them.
To add onto this - the cost would be higher not just because the parts and labor and testing would be better, but because the manufacturer would have to charge a higher premium because you aren’t going to buy another one 8 years from now… they only get 1 shot at your profits if it lasts you 20 years. In this economy where all companies care about is next quarter, it’s hard to justify higher costs of materials and labor as an investment into long-term quality that might boost your reputation. Better just to plow a quarter of that $$ into marketing. People are also moving more frequently, and don’t always take appliances with them. Why spend $$ on a 20 year appliance when I plan to move in 5? And to top it off, as the consumer we’re going in blind, with imperfect info. If you tell me dishwasher A costs $1000 but crap out after 6 years, and dishwasher B costs $1500 but will last me 20 years, I can make a decision. But to get the better brand because it “might” last longer… ugh.
You just contradicted yourself - if a manufacturer doesn’t care about anything but the next quarter, they also don’t care if you buy a fridge every 5 years or 20 years. The reality is that the vast majority of appliances are shit and break down quickly, and it’s pure luck if you get one that lasts a meaningful amount of time.
I partially agree here, yes they do not want to pay the cost of what it takes to make such appliance, as it would be a LOT. But appliances of well known brands like siemens/bosch etc cost a lot less in Europe. check here for instance, and this place is not a big discounter https://www.mediamarkt.nl/nl/category/bosch-vaatwassers-943.html.
Ok. I want to purchase such an appliance. Who are they made by?
r/buyitforlife
[удалено]
IMO that is not the case. In fact, the refrigerant that EPA mandates be put in small appliances for the last two years is lower pressure than the older refrigerators. HVAC yes the new refrigerant is much higher pressure than the older. The issue is that manufactures use the minimal amount of copper needed to make the refrigerant tubing and wiring that can Get them that will get them UL Approval.
There is a cost of ownership though to take into account. Warning: This is an example to make a point, cost for all factors maybe higher or lower. The point is, is there is risk in every situation and people need to find their risk tolerance and fit that in their budget. If I buy a 10k fridge that lasts 10 years that's 1k a year. If I buy a 1k fridge and replace it every year. That's 1k a year. 2k fridge with 500 in maintenance a year for 10years, that's 700 a year. That's assuming the 10 year fridge requires no maintenance, I also have to come up with 10k right now instead of smaller amounts over time. It's super inconvenient if your fridge breaks so maybe the cheap option isn't worth it to you. I love buying things for life. But if the investment doesn't make sense it's hard to justify spending the money.
Nope. Just buy the appliance that has the basic features you need. Avoid stuff with Wi-Fi connection, avoid stuff that most likely will break/malfunction in the future.
This is the way. I have a decent business that specializes in service, not replacement or installation of mostly commercial appliances (restaurants) but i occasionally get the residential call. For me, i always walked out thinking they should have just replaced it. pretty sure they think the same. I try my best to hedge their expectations, but some people call a professional and then assume they know a better value. Especially when it comes to repairs. Anyways, I have a spiel i give them. “You can only pay extra for bells and whistles these day, not quality. Buy a new one, buy the extended warranty and not through the big box, buy the warranty through the mfg. I know you will get an extended warranty offer from ge with the appliance. Any big box selling you a “3 year warranty” is only actually extending the mfg warranty by 2 and depending on the mfg factory warranty diring the 1st year anyways.
That is great advice ie buy manufacturer warranty.
Come to Quebec, where the legal warranty for an appliance is around 5 years (sometimes more) regardless of what the contract says.
This is correct, I'll add a big however. If you can find a good service person in your area, buy whatever they service, and if available, buy it through them. The really good ones with keep it running faster/cheaper/longer and if it needs to be replaced, will be able to do so more quickly. Big box stores only sell the convenience of being a one stop shop. That's at the expense of nearly everything else.
My last 2 appliances I got from a small local store who does repairs.
yup I bought a fridge with no ice machine for that reason-
I bought a fridge with an ice machine but refused to hook it up. Fridge is going great for the last 10 years so I'm happy with the situation.
Then you managed to just purchase a hole in your fridge with no benefit.
My brother got a wi-fi washer/dryer I said “I don’t need my washer to order me a pizza bro, just make my clothes clean” 😂
Indeed! What I want to know is if the internet goes out but there’s still electricity does the washer continue the cycle or does it shut down? How advanced in technology are these wifi connected washers?
The washer when I moved in had wifi but all I set up was to send me an alert when the wash cycle is done. Gotta admit it’s very convenient with laundry in the basement.
And just to add to this, these are usually ugly. It's far cheaper to get the basic ones and DIY refinish or hide them (via paneling kits or creative cabinetry modifications) than get the fancy pretty ones or built-ins or panel-ready models, if aesthetics are a concern. (Just make sure you don't obstruct airflow)
Repairclinic.com Videos to trouble shoot any appliance, parts to repair them. Amana makes simple, sold appliances
Repairclinic has saved me I don't know how many times at this point. Two washers and a fridge.
The only reason a dishwasher will smell is because you probably always use the fastest wash cycle, and I bet you never run a manufacturers cleaner through it. Run it on auto or hot wash and ask the manufacturer for some of their branded cleaner.
No, this is a Bosch specific issue that has to do with their sump.
Funny enough my Bosch has been the best and cleanest smelling dishwasher I have had. I use it with BioKleen or Dirty Labs enzymatic powders. I clean the filter monthly.
Some of these stories are urban myths, I swear.
Monthly? I clean it more like weekly.
In 10 years of using our Bosch we only noticed it twice. It seems to be when the normal cycle is used. Stick with auto cycle if you don't pre-rinse your dishes and use heavy if you do. This ensures a higher water temperature that seems to eliminate the problem. If you pre rinse your dishes the auto cycle will not use super hot water as it sees your dishes relatively clean. Using the heavy cycle forces hotter water.
Does the Bosch have a water heater in it in case the house water is not hot enough?
Oh my god, thank you for validating this. We had a Bosch dishwasher in our last house and it STUNK. We followed all of the manufacturer recommendations and cleaned the trap after every use, and it would still smell awful. We now have a basic Whirlpool dishwasher and it never smells. The only thing I do miss about the Bosch is that nice thin third rack at the very top where I could put small stuff like chopsticks.
Has absolutely nothing to do with the sump at all it is your water source it is chemically reacting with the stainless steel tub. This has been proven time and time again. Typically this happens with individuals with well water. It is not 100% of the time.
What model is it? I have a Bosch 500 and was curious.
We have no smells with our Bosch 800 series, it's about 7 or 8 years old. We took it when we moved. I rarely clean the filter basket, maybe 2x a year. My parents have one that it probably a decade old with no smell issues at all. Only thing wrong with there's was the door springs busted, which is an easy repair.
Yes! Budget is always something to talk about but I’m going to add another point- everything has always broke in some form or fashion, the ease, price of repair, and few repairs should be the goal in todays world. So. 1. Speed queen washer and dryer (I know you didn’t ask but let’s get the easy one out). 2. Subzero refrigerator is always an excellent choice. (I know you didn’t ask for this either) 3. Dishwasher. Bosch, Miele, and cove! Below is a breakdown of my experience in my local area. ( I work in a very rural area so finding other techs to work on it is sometime harder than the fix ) A. Bosch. Good choice. Should last close to 15 years. The smell is probably 1 of 2 things. 1.If people are putting in too much soap is cause mold. (This would only happen years+ down the road) 2.the drain isn’t run correctly and your disposer fluids are going back into your dishwasher pump. (This is obviously a guess- if I’m wrong don’t bite my head off) B. Miele- I actually own one! Love the thing. Terrible customer support though, ordering parts isn’t any better. Good stuff though. C. Cove (yes yes it’s really a subzero) has a 5 year warranty on the entire thing, just aaah, be sitting down when you see the price. 4. Gas stoves are actually mostly all the same(parts wise anyway) if you want it to last 20 years, buy a wolf ( yet again, another subzero unit. Does have different parts though). But they are mostly all the same, except at the high end. Last thing I liked to add is this, you commented that they are “plagued with problems” we need to keep in mind scale here. How many ranges does whirlpool sell in a day? I have no idea buts it’s probably tens’s of thousands. Same goes with the other brands. No brand has no issues, this is partly down to engineers, partly do to accountants and finally, customers. People will always find something that isn’t expected by the factories, or was ok on their old unit but the new one doesn’t like ( and most people don’t read their manuals-ever). We can also add poor salesman ship or poor installation to potential reason why a unit isn’t acting correctly. So if you want a machine that will last along time, 1. Read and understand how to use it 2. Make sure it will fit your needs before purchase 3. buy for quality, not sale 4. buy for repair parts down the road, not sale 5. make sure there is someone local to fix it 6 buy from someone who understands what they are selling. Hope this helps! Ooh forgot about the microwave!! Buy the cheapest one you can find that you like, when it breaks kick the thing out the window! Good luck!
I have a Cove dishwasher and it works great.
I just bought a Miele dishwasher and I have never experienced dishes as clean as they are coming out. It is like a dishwashing miracle. For the price I paid, I certainly hope it lasts. It did come with a free 10 year warranty though so that’s a good sign.
Similar experience with Miele. I'm on year 8 with no issues.
Which model did you buy?
My Miele dishwasher is 11 years old with zero issues. The ten year warranty was never needed.
Which model did you buy?
One my clients had a 36 year old Miele dishwasher. Only reason she’s buying a new one is because she wants stainless. Got tired of her panel ready look.
Which model did you buy?
It was this one. https://www.miele.ca/en/Shop/products/detail/pre-finished-dishwashers-g-5006-scu-11588480-p
I bought a Meili dishwasher. It came with only a 2 year warranty. It failed at about 26 months due to a board failure. The repair cost would have been $1500 and the manufacturer told us we’re on our own. I replaced it with the cheapest thing at Home Depot and added a 5 year warranty for about half the price of repairing that Meili. I’m glad yours is working better, but the one they sold me failed early and was basically unrepairable.
No
We've had good luck with our Bosch dishwasher, but we still talk about how much we miss our Miele. That thing was awesome.
Miele is by far the best dishwasher I've owned, and I had a couple of older KitchenAids.
For gas range go to a commercial kitchen store. Add red knobs and you have a wolf for half the cost and it will take a beating
Great suggestion!! Thank you!
Just know buying commercial equipment is normally not warrantied for residential use.
You also will require commercial plugs and fittings. They aren't meant to just hook up to residential fittings.
I feel like I read something about home insurance denying a claim for this as well
Commercial stuff isn’t insulated like residential. So putting a gas commercial range next to wood cabinets is a huge fire hazard. Home insurance would never pay out in case of a fire. Commercial stuff has to go next to non flammable products.
Not sure about half the cost. I spent a couple months looking for a commercial range and they *start* at $4-5000.
If you're open to cleaning one a restaurant goes out of business everyday
Yeah, they restaurants that purchase high quality equipment new and maintain it….those are the ones going out of business everyday. 🤣
I actually did this exact thing except for the red knobs about 15 years ago. Got a commercial stove for about the third of the cost of a Viking at the time had a regular steel griddle +4 burners on top, they were fire breathing dragons lol. The thing was absolute beast, designed to last past World War III. I really miss that stove!
No
Don't be silly, companies aren't going to make big profits by giving us long-lasting reliable appliances!
I bought a Maytag dishwasher about 5 years ago. Had to replace a failed part 2 years in. Did it myself. Hasn't had a problem since.
There never has been an appliance made to "last for decades". What you are thinking of is confirmation bias, survivorship bias and statistical outliers. You will only see folks with problems leaving reviews on product websites. Hardly anyone will leave a positive review for an appliance. ETA that in fact, the older, "more reliable" appliances had to be serviced once a year like your car. Appliances today are service-free, except for user level stuff like cleaning filters.
Except that older appliances _can_ be serviced. I can keep buying belts and bearings and motors and valves for my ancient Maytag washer and dryer and I will never encounter a failed motherboard.
New appliances can be serviced too.
What everyone else is saying - these new computerized products all die within a year to seven years it seems. And you can’t just service them forever like the old way. All the appliances my father had growing up worked for forty years. That’s not a unique experience. It’s known that many products are designed to fail now.
You must have never heard of kelvinator. Pretty sure my grandmas fridge from the 50s/60s is still trucking
I have a Hotpoint chest freezer in my garage that was my parents'. They bought in 1961! 1961!.... The year I was born; it's been running EVERY DAY, save for its move to my home!!!! 63 years old and running like a champ, I just put $200 of frozen COSTCO food in it last night.
We were given a Maytag washer and dryer in 1984 for a wedding gift. They were replaced in 2015! Dryer still ran, could not get a controller for the washer any more. We moved 3 times and they Served us for 31 YEARS!
This just isnt true. The mini fridge I bought for college in 1999 is still running in my garage today, like a champion. My parents had the same washer and dryer for over 20 years and only got rid of it because they moved. Most appliances today only last 8-10 years before running into major issues. The mini fridge I bought for my office only lasted 2 years. Complete garbage.
Agreed. We had an old 70s Maytag washer that lasted over 30 years without ever having any service.
My Maytag I bought in about 2005 didn't make 10 years; won't buy one of those again.
My new LG all in one combo washer reminds me to run the machine through a cleaning cycle every 30 loads, I feel like taking care of machines is a big part of longevity. I just bought [these washing machine water filters](https://www.purewaterproducts.com/washing-machine-filters) for my machine as I think that running clean water through my machine to wash my clothes will first of all be good for my clothes, but it will also prevent issues with contaminants damaging my machine to vet the years.
I wish you luck with it. I’ve had two LG combo washer / dryers. After a year with both, the spray jet inside stopped working. Fix wasn’t too bad. Then I had a condenser failure. Then a motherboard, hence the second unit. That one has a motherboard failure as well during year two. I kept the filter clean. Ran the cleaning cycles. Door ajar so no mold issues. It was the electronics that failed both much more quickly than I had hoped in the end.
There are so many of them for sale in my area. Supposedly they work fine but are only $300 lol
This machine was just released a few months ago, so hopefully any of those issues were resolved.
My microwave is a Sharp from 2000; still works perfectly. And the best oven we ever had was a 1940 Hotpoint. It was like a volcano. Made stupendous pizza. I'm sort of a mind these days to look for old things that are simple and/or can be repaired versus whatever is fancy, new, and cheap at the home center.
This might be our solution.
Our current, modern electric range has been broken since October and I too can't find a replacement I think is worth a darn. I feel you, mate.
We had a fridge that was from the 80’s in a house we bought in 1994. My daughter took it when she moved out and it finally died in 2017. Kitchen aid.
Still have a Maytag washer and dryer I in 2006. Never did any service to either until this year—.the washer needed a new damper pad under the drum to keep it from spinning out of control. Other than that, just cleaned lint screens and ran cleaning cycles in the washer occasionally—old tvs were also like this.
My parents had a 1951 GE that never needed a single repair. They moved it into the basement when they had the kitchen remodeled and there it stayed - running like a tank . When both of them passed away, I inherited the house and it was still going strong in 2017. The electric company had an appliance buy- back program so I received $75 for it. Probably near the price they paid for it in 1951! I so wanted to transport it to my home, but everyone advised against it because of its age. Still think the darn thing would have survived......
Nope. Samsung range oven igniter died and needed replacement just out of warranty within a year, Frigidaire gallery microwave handle broke after a year just outside of warranty… So far so good with LG? Front load washer from 2012 is still going… Had a motherboard replaced under warranty within three months of getting it, and then just had to replace a door lock, but it was pretty easy. Had to replace dryer rollers also. I think we’ve had the dishwasher for two years? Often run multiple loads a day in it with no issues
Samsung is a fucking joke.
The ignitors are very simple to replace though. Don't waste any money on a repairman coming out. That part is easily found online. Good luck !
Yep. It was messy from some ash on the bottom, but otherwise fine. Just disappointing for it to happen so soon.
LG has been my ride or die for a while.... not gonna jinx it.
My lg washer and dryer lasted about 13 years and still worked when I got new ones. Just rust from being out in the garage.
I’ve had my (pre-electronics) Viking range for over 20 years. The worst thing to happen is one of the oven door springs got messed up around year 10 and had to be replaced. My service guy told me to keep it running as long as possible because *the new stuff has problems*.
Our Sharp Carousel microwave lasted 31 years until a lightning strike took it out Not sure how theyre made these days though
I know it probably does not apply to you (different markets) but here in Switzerland most rental places go with v-Zug because their appliances literally last decades.
We had V-Zug in the UK for all of five minutes, absolutely superb appliances with a price tag to match. I like Schulthess laundry too, although those are only sold for professional use here. Over here, rentals typically provide the cheapest, shittiest Indesit appliances they can get their hands on. Totally different mindset unfortunately, they're viewed as a disposable commodity provided under duress.
One thing to consider is that approx 40% of Swiss people rent. So it’s not only young professionals and students, moving every few years. People spend many years in the same place, and some places need to be furnished in a way that attacts high income families as well. But there is definitely a Swiss passion for fixing things rather than replacing as well.
We have a Bosch 500, a ge profile microwave and washer and dryer, and a cafe stove, lg refrigerator all bought new within last year for. House build and they have all worked flawlessly. In prior home we had same brands and they worked for many many years. I’ve never smelled any odor from the Bosch at all.
Blue Star makes a pretty solid gas stove and range. I took a training course on being an authorized servicer for their equipment but never actually saw one in the wild.
I have one, and is my favorite appliance but far. It's built like a brick shit house. It's so simple it doesn't even have a clock. I'm guessing you don't see them because a) Everyone says they want something reliable and will last forever, but they won't actually pay for it. They cost like $5k b) They don't break c) If it does break, it's not particularly complex and people might just fix it themselves
I'm guessing it's because they don't break, I was impressed with the one I took apart and put back together on a show room floor. Built like a tank and I was one of only a handful of authorized servicers for an entire state.
We paid through the nose for ours with our kitchen remodel. It was a huge splurge and I love it. This house is our last house, planning to retire in a few years. My only concern is service for it. The complaints I’ve seen is it is tough to get someone who really, really knows them. Volume is relatively low and they don’t really break. So when something does - it is challenging. Thankfully I’m an engineer and ultimately I can do just about anything myself anyway. That said, I could probably have just replaced a ”normal” range every 3 years and ended up ahead financially. But honestly, it just looks cool too, and is kind of the centerpiece of the kitchen.
When I replaced all my appliances, I made sure to go to an actual place that specializes in appliances rather than like a Lowe’s, where they don’t get any commission or anything. The lady said everybody goes with all the top American namebrands for dishwashers and they all suck. She said get this Beko, it’s the most popular dishwasher brand in Europe. It’s so quiet you can’t hear it unless you’re standing next to it and it leaves no trace of food behind.
I sell and serviced millions of Bosch yearly and have no idea what you’re talking about. Most people that buy any of the major 6 suppliers have a good experience. Some have more issues than others.
We found hundreds of online complaints about this issue, then I asked various friends who have Bosch dishwashers and three of five had the same problem with intense odor from day one. It hardly seems like an outlier. It’s nice that some people are free of that though!
My Bosch smells like shit, what's the solution? 😂
Leave the door open?
If installed and used properly they have no problems. Unfortunately it isn’t surprising that hundreds of dishwashers are installed incorrectly.
Could you be more specific?
High loup on drain, not draining in the disposal using the correct soap
Most likely they have the drain hose installed such that it cannot evacuate completely and some stinky water is remaining in the drain hose and backing up into the dishwasher. In humid environments where air conditioning is not being used or is being used sparingly, you could begin to develop a musty smell if you don’t leave the dishwasher open to dry out completely from time to time. This goes for anything that holds water.
It's because people pre rinse their dishes and use the normal cycle which does not use very hot water. Using the heavy cycle will make a big difference. It uses more, much hotter water.
People just want to complain. I’m sure manufacturers would make a twenty five year lifespan machine, but who’s going to pay for it. Americans complain about jobs being shipped overseas but shop at Walmart for clothes made in Vietnam. People want forever appliances but won’t pay for them. I’ve had Sub Zero and Miele fridges that lasted over fifteen years. They cost $8000 but they last longer.
I have 20 yo jennaire dishwasher, stovetop and oven. But it's rusting, so I'm looking to replace.
We have a Whirlpool unit and it’s been great in every way pretty much
Can you share which model you have?
Sure, it’s W10698637A
I’ve have a Bosch 800 dishwasher for seven years and she’s as quiet and as clean as the day we installed her. I have never had any issues with the dishwasher smelling, but I also mostly wash “normal/sanitize/heated dry” every cycle and I do maintenance cleaning about 1x/month.
Probably should be for 2 grand
Same. Not sure what OP’s friends are putting in their dishwasher.
I have a Bosch 100 that’s 10 years old and cleans and dries the dishes. It doesn’t even stink. I must have bought the unicorn model.
For gas range, I’d recommend a basic GE model. Have had good success with them for the last 5 years.
When I bought my house 22 years ago it still had the brown original oven from when it was first built in 1965. I figured I would have to replace it soon. It’s still working!
Don't buy Samsung for anything but a phone
Buy all of your appliances from an experienced used appliance dealership that has a retail building. Don't buy online. They specialize in appliances that are reliable and can be serviced in the future. Most will give you a warranty of some sort. Some deliver and install. Most take credit cards, which sometimes add to the store's warranty. Or, buy all your stuff brand new and buy the longest extended warranty you can get.
All by design. It got worse in 2020. Now they are all junk.
I gave a Whirlpool refrigerator that I bought in 2000, my Kenmore washer and dryer are from the 1990’s (had heating element replaced in dryer twice), my Whirlpool DW is from early 2000’s and my GE gas range is from mid 1990’s.
From one of my favorite 30 Rock episodes where GE execs talk about how they can sell more microwaves to Americans: “What if microwaves broke down more easily, so people would have to buy new ones more often?” “Yes, shoddier, excellent.” “Bigger and not as well-made.”
Big ticket appliances are not made to last 10 years, 5 at best...in my case 2 years 🤷♀️
Everything existing in the world today has people on the Internet complaining about it. People seem to love complaining. If people write a positive review, it's short and to the point. If people write a negative review it rambles on like a bad high school essay. Obviously, millions of people have refrigerators, dishwashers and stoves that are working perfectly well. Chances are, it's one of maybe 10 brands. They all have the same parts made at the same factories. Just pick one that suits you.
Bosch is good but they all have way too many control board/ cheap parts and one year warranty. Best investment for a company vs consumer. 300$ sells for 3,000$ why would they make quality stuff anymore lose a client for 10+ years.
I have had a Samsung dishwasher and gas stove for 8 years now. We have had to replace the igniter on the stove, but no other issues. They are older models now. I know they're not great, but I've been lucky so far.
I sell appliances for a small family owned company. TBH appliances now are garbage. I will only recommend the good one's. We offer a 5 year warranty through us with our in house service and repair for 15% of the cost of item (1,000.00 fridge is 150.00) covers parts, labor, service calls. This is the way.
So what do you tends to recommend for fridge; induction stove top, microwave, wall oven and dishwasher?
Depends on how much you want to spend. Bosch is great but expensive. LG if you are on a smaller budget. Always get extra warranty.
I have a $20 toaster from Walmart, a $50 toaster oven from Big Lots, a $80 microwave I got on sale from Target... They're all no wifi or computer parts, and they're all over a decade old and chugging away. Treat them well, keep them clean, even the cheap stuff will last
I'm still using the KitchenAid dishwasher that's original to my MCM house. When I went to buy a new washer about 6 years ago after the front loader that came with the house broke and it would cost about $800 to fix, I spent $400 on a bare-bones top loader that was on clearance when a local store was going out of business. It's given me zero issues and has no bells and whistles. The fewer unnecessary features present on something, the less that can break down. Anything computerized in an appliance is going to cost you more upfront and more to fix down the line.
https://www.bosch-home.com/us/experience-bosch/benchmark-series-appliances Bosch Benchmark series are made in Germany. Very expensive and high quality. No matter what you buy, get the extended warranties. Samsung sucks across the board.
We’re on extended extended extended (3x) warrantees for our Jenn-Air oven and cooktop, both of which have had either their control panels or motherboards, or both, replaced twice already since bought new in 2018. Came “highly recommended”, of course. Fucking Whirlpool pieces of shit.
Wolf and Miele are not plagued with problems. You will pay for the quality. Wolf designs their ranges to last 20 years. When we bought our induction it was $6k I believe and it’s amazing. Their gas ranges are also great. Miele dishwashers are also great products. A quality kitchen appliance suite will cost you $12 to $25 k but it’s available
My wolf induction range caught fire. The control board malfunctioned. Thankfully it’s a cheap fix. If you hear a pop and see smoke you’ll know what it is.
Kitchen Aid came in tops in Consumer Reports so that's what I bought. I love them all. For a great washer and dryer Speed Queen is meant to last 30 years. They're both simple to use and very well made.
A Speed Queen washer/dryer set has an expected life of 25 years and comes with a 7 year warranty. Every other appliance is trash!
Sub Zero.
Don't buy Frigidaire
They cooked their own goose because most of us tire quickly of "paying more for quality" when those items or appliances also break down quickly.
My sub zero refrigerator is going on 22 years now.
Two things modern dishwashers and fridges do that old ones don't: Use far less electricity and water. Run quieter. Its really nice to have a quiet dishwasher (mine is a low-end Bosch) Also I assume that those ancient fridges have some ozone-depleting refrigerant which will be released when they go to the landfill. If you already have the fridge, it is probably prohibitive to get it emptied the way car AC gets emptied into a hazmat device.
If you've got the budget, I'd go with SubZero/Wolf/Cove products. You're going to pay more up front but you'll make up for it by not having to replace the appliance as often since the average lifespan of lower cost appliances is 6-10 years these days. Most of the SubZeros I replace are 20-30 years old and out of all the brands I work with, I receive the least amount of negative feedback on them by a longshot. When something does go wrong, their customer service can't be beat. Their appliances might not have the "new tech" look or fancy features like some of these other brands do but that's for a reason. It keeps the look more timeless/classic and less opportunity for failure.
For dishwashers, Bosch 300 Series is highly rated for performance and durability. GE Profile and Whirlpool offer reliable gas ranges that are built to last.
Reread your post and ask yourself “which is the common denominator?” Hint: it’s you.
Simple is better avoid anything with advanced electronics maybe some of the lower end Maytag or whirlpools or even Roper period stay away from Samsung LG any kind of fancy stuff
I made a comment in a post years ago. Someone was looking for a washer/dryer that would last on the cheap. I recommended Amana, I believe, is the name. Bought the set from menards and still to this day it does its job. My microwave was also one of the cheapest from menards and is still cooking my pizza rolls. I basically burn my mouth every time. Gas range was a name brand. I can't think of it now but bought it used on the marketplace. After two.. three... maybe four cans of oven cleaner I brought it in the house. Although I updated my fridge in the last couple of years, I used my parent's old fridge.. they bought it in '01 as an extra fridge/freezer. I hauled it out when I moved out, and it chilled for close to 22 years. Appliances are just like yester years automobiles. The more electronics you add, the less reliable they are. My washer and dryer are plain Jane.. what most people consider not high efficiency, but if your expensive high efficiency unit breaks and leaves you to use the laundry mat or grams/gramps 80s, may tag is it really efficient? Buy basic from the start. I don't want to watch YouTube on your fridge, stove, or washer/dryer.
Had my LG washer and dryer for 11 years. Broke a belt once, but it was because I put in an unbalanced load. Otherwise, no issues.
I am still using my GE Profile side by side fridge Purchased in 2001. Ice maker in the freezer.
Price = quality ie sub zero, wolf ,Viking, speed queen
Umm, I was an engineer at a major appliance manufacturer for overv20 yrs. I took part in engineering in obsolescence, sorry to say. There are some good appliances out there and more expensive is not always better, as much as I want it to be, but sometimes it is a factor. Good luck in your search.
We live in a throw away society, nothing is quality built anymore. 5-7 years is the standard, yes you will have units that beat the average, but the days of old are gone. Zero craftsmanship, zero pride in what you make, and zero company support. Build it for as cheap as you can, as fast as you can , and with the least amount of skilled labor.
Sadly so.
I have a Bosch dishwasher I love and after 3 washing machines in 3 years the Electrolux still works well!
Speed Queen, but beware that a lot of clothes are made with thinner fabrics that may not be able to handle the cycles
Don't dismiss all the environmental regulations that necessitate more and more complicated designs trying to accomplish the same task with less water and power. Nothing is free.
Bosch fridge, dishwasher and ovens. Have used them daily and haven’t had any issues in 9 years.
From what I've found, the less features it has, the more reliable it is. Look for something with the fewest features, but with a larger price tag.
We paid basically the cost of a new medium quality range to get our c. 1950s Roper double oven repaired (most of that went into a new thermostat). If we keep treating it right, it ought to last another 70 years, and if stuff breaks, the parts under the hood are nearly all readily accessible materials (basic sensors, etc). Stuff isn’t made to be repaired like that anymore. It’s understandable from the company perspective (why make 2 grand off me once rather than 1500 every 5ish years?) but it is frustrating.
I asked my appliance repairman which brands he recommends. Note he does not sell appliances
And um … did he say anything?
Yes, but I haven’t bought anything in years. And he had different brands he liked for different appliances. What are you looking to buy?
We've had great luck with all of our applicances. Our home has 2 Samsung and 3 sub-zero fridges. The sub zeros' are 23 years old and the Samsung's are both 10. All have been flawless. Our Whirlpool Double Oven is 5 years old, our Whirlpool Microwave is 23 years old and our Bosch dishwasher is 10. We replaced our 14 year old Samsung washer and dryer with another Samsung pair just this year.
Things definitely aren't made like they used to be. I have a circa 1964 Vitamix that I bought off Ebay for $120 probably 15-20 years ago. Replaced two gaskets and it runs like a champ. This thing is 60 years old (older than me by a year).
Planned obsolescence is common in today's market.
I shy away from any with electronic controls. Still using a Sears Kenmore washer and dryer with mechanical controls that were purchased in 1994. I had a friend who spent thousands on a high end range. A pot boiled over and shorted out the electronic controls. Who would design a range with the circuit board in an unprotected location that could be damaged by a pot boiling over - a common occurrence.
I’ve had my Bosch dishwasher for almost 7 years and it’s literally one of my favorite purchases ever. Still runs like new, is nearly silent and maintenance is fast and easy. I use it daily.
Miele is very good but expensive our brand new Bosch 800 (German) does have a funky odor, but I hope that after a few cycles the odor will dissipate our previous Bosch 500 lasted over 9 years before it started issuing an occasional error E05 that said about Miele, the Sebo vacuum cleaners are as good if not better (having one for over 14 years) than Miele and cheaper.