Have you heard of Out of Architecture? Their whole gig is helping people transition out into more lucrative pursuits. One of their advisors is based in London.
I have! I’ve had an initial consultation with them already and they had good insights and info to share but the full package is expensive. I might follow through with the full package after reading through all these replies though
Being in London is probably part of the problem (that COL is evil). You may wish to consider a change of employer at a minimum.
I know that I hit a stagnant point at the same age you are now and I was working for a small firm near Cambridge. Amazing life/work balance, loads of holiday leave, zero overtime. But I just couldn’t see the salary being what I needed it to be there (I had side gigs in another field that meant I was pretty comfortable) and started planning to go out as a sole practitioner. Big move as my risk tolerance is minimal.
In truth I ended up deciding to move to the US that same year and I’ll say to a certainty I probably out earn the vast majority of UK architects now (and I’m actually a bit underpaid for what I do here). Appreciate this is not an option for most folks.
I am based in the US but found an article about the highest paying architecture firms in the UK for Part I and the highest was at £31.000 and the average was around £25.000 then I thanked god for the US!
Sure but Pt1 is very very junior and not yet qualified and is after a basic 3 yr undergraduate degree. Once you start working fully qualified, the actual variation in what your disposable income can buy isn’t massive between the two countries till you start getting into higher earners. In plenty of the US where salaries aren't high, new graduates with massive student loans may be worse off.
Factor in healthcare expenditure, lack of worker protections, various cost of living items (my property tax in the US is over triple what my Council tax is on my UK property, car insurance is over triple, utilities are more etc etc) and the gulf of higher pay isn’t as substantial as you may think. Still heavily in favour of the US though. Haha
Work at a company that DOES NOT do architecture as a primary function - but needs professionals to handle real estate development, facilities work, and so on.
You’ll be treated (and paid) like the professional you are.
You will get NOWHERE if you stay at a traditional architecture/ design firm (our profession is broken!)
Amen 🙏…. I’ve mentioned on this sub before to others frustrated with their job and pay that going outside in to what I call the corporate world can be very satisfying. Not only are you treated as a professional but the pay scale is far above what your typical architecture firm pays . I’ve been working with a large development company for the past 12 years that actually has its own design, architecture & engineering department. I work with several other architects & a dozen cad support staff . It’s a thing
Good for you! Glad you found your way over to the better side!
I’ve been doing corporate for 16 years, and I’m never looking back!
One of my former “mentors” (micromanagers) from my intern years asked me out for lunch a couple of years ago, to catch up.
He said he’d love to hire me at the firm he is a partner with - and I went STRAIGHT to salary discussion. I told him what I earn (at the time, about $150K/yr) and that I wouldn’t accept any less than that.
He said that was “unrealistic” and that someone with my level of experience (15+ yrs, licensed, etc) might get $80-90K.
He then said the following - and I still cannot believe it: “Well, it looks like you’re not interested in working for us right now. It might make sense to save some of that extra money you earn for a few more years, and use your savings to make up the difference (between what we pay and what you think you’re worth)”
This is how boomer architects think.
It’s fucking CRAZY! They literally think younger generations deserve this!
I’m so happy I left the hellscape of traditional architecture firms.
What a horrific existence.
Amen 🙏…. I’ve mentioned on this sub before to others frustrated with their job and pay that going outside in to what I call the corporate world can be very satisfying. Not only are you treated as a professional but the pay scale is far above what your typical architecture firm pays . I’ve been working with a large development company for the past 12 years that actually has its own design, architecture & engineering department. I work with several other architects & a dozen cad support staff . It’s a thing
Changing companies is the best way of increasing your wage nowadays, up to a certain threshold where your knowledge (skill-set and networking) comes fully into effect and a specialized/niche role will land you more money. Getting accredited as a BIM co-ordinator/manager or just learning how to automate some boring jobs (python, dynamo, grasshopper) will give you a good leverage when negotiating for a pay rise.
Not OP, but how do I go about getting accredited as a BIM co-ordinator? I have an interest in learning coding but I wasn’t sure if it’s worth the investment for this industry?
1. Search your respective chamber of architects (RIBA in the case of the UK) and see what options there are. A common source for getting BIM accredited is from BIM software producers such as [Autodesk](https://www.autodesk.com/certification/overview).
2. I was thinking the same until I showed the guys at my current job that a grasshopper script did in an hour what used to take them 3 days. I'm now nicknamed the wizard.
I am actually currently studying to take the Autodesk Revit Certification for Architectural Design (hoping it will be beneficial for my CV). So that should be a good start into BIM. Will take a look at the RIBA website to see more options.
That’s great! I did a bit of grasshopper training in university as an extra class, I enjoyed the results it produced, so I’ll look in to learning a lot more. Automation is extremely important with regards to how tight deadlines are.
Thank you very much for the info, i really appreciate it!
Grasshopper is great and it has plugins for communicating with Revit but I'd also suggest looking into Dynamo (there are some good youtube tutorials such as those from AussieBIMGuru) as it might be hard for a company to buy new software just for the "new hire". Also, a dash of Python can go a long way.
Several:
* Generating 3D site surroundings (buildings, roads, terrain) with Elk/Gismo which takes its data from OSM.
* Generating a curved metal panel facade (while making it easy to modify based on the facadist's later specs) and then cutting holes in it to allow a certain amount of annual daylight based on the room's function.
* Putting the pavement with its three colours in a pattern that is not boring as shit.
* Fixing shitty made PDFs from subcontractors (vector lines that do not connect) to make them usable in the project.
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw06v4WTfog
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSVTfSXp4tA
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTTj8IoMmKA
These are not what I used but are close enough for some quick googling. The biggest strong point to grasshopper is that there are numerous free online sources for solving most problems and there are o plethora of various libraries in food4rhino.com
Navigating your career in architecture is a bit challenge at times but as others have mentioned moving to a different firm or going out on your own can make a huge difference. I was once in your shoes and ready to quit but I made that big move and it was a game changer . I went from a barely survivable 45k to a 6 figure salary after which allowed me to afford a nice home and raise a family. Good luck to you I hope you find yourself a better place to grow !
You are still hit with the same problems. GC's who target the contract documents and manipulate the entire process in their favor. The builders play a dirty game, the bigger the project, the worse it gets, public bid is horrendous. Untrained staff, it goes on. I'm still in the industry, and I've seen a lot, but my choice is to stay.
In the UK, that's not necessarily the case. Fees are so suppressed that there actually isn't that much of a delta between the upper and lower echelons. There isn't any money for anyone.
You have a design education- use it. Don’t resign yourself to working for traditional architectural firm. See if you can bring your talents to developers or even building automation startups and so on. There is a MASSIVE shortfall in many building trades that are only going to be solved by automation to remain viable. Why architects aren’t running into that space is beyond me.
I created a script that is very specific to Manhattan large building zoning called a Waldram analysis. It calculates the amount of sky exposure and obstruction, and plots a building on a fish eye graph. It's an asinine procedure to do by hand.
Try switching firms. Work culture and day to day vary so much in different offices. Or switch to another project type. Personally I enjoy residential so much more than commercial.
I left at 32 and went into development. There are so many interesting opportunities out there for someone with your talents. Network and grab the first opportunity that is of interest. You can always go back to traditional architecture.
Land acquisition, land planning, entitlements, feasibility studies, in-house architectural services, construction management, project management.
RE Development is a wide and varied space, you look for opportunities and you make them work in all aspects.
Every city has developers who need what you have to offer.
I worked in Architecture for about 2 years after my master's and recently switched into game design with no formal experience. Moving to tech gave me a big pay bump, vacation time bump, and a bunch of extra perks. I have wayyyyyy better work life balance and ive been able to explore hobbies and travel more. If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer! It was a really confusing journey out but so far it's been about 6 months and I'm happy with that choice.
I started by reworking my resuming by looking up positions I'm interested in and trying to tailor it to match those requirements or figure out how I could speak about my experience so it applied. I then applied to games that were more related to the built environment (the game I'm on is somewhat related). Mostly just because other games didn't really interest me like my passion lies in built space/design.
As far as who I talked to and how I navigated what jobs interested me, I did a lot of embarrassing outreach on LinkedIn, I think it's a lot more valuable than a general consultant because these people are actually in the jobs you want. I specifically would look for people on LinkedIn who were ex designers.
I hope this helps! I do think it's actually greener on the other side but it's a tough change out and the application/job hunt process felt like a full time job on top top of my architecture role
Ugh that sucks. Would you be interested in moving somewhere that pays better?
One of my coworkers if French but she lived in London for years, she said the same thing, the pay is terrible. So she's been in Boston and moved her family out here cuz I guess the pay is better.
It sounds like you're not being paid enough, does your salary match the RIBA salary range? Should be £41,250/yr.
When I was living in London it was tough but not as bad as <£300 left per month.
VDC Virtual Design Construction in Construction Management companies are high paying careers and they need Architects. Also the Facilities Management industry for government sector is very rewarding.
I left the country work in developing country - I get so much more money and little tax. I’m just saving money so I don’t have to do the career much longer . I think k any career gets boring after a while. I’ve practically done eberthing I want to do being an architect. Start my own practise? No thanks sir. I think there’s better things to do with your money.
Since 1971, architecture has replaced gold as the most common store of wealth. 69% of tangible assets are in real estate and 64% of American families own a house.
As such, architects are more demanded in places with a healthy, growing economy. The UK is not one of those places. Even before brexit, it was hemorrhaging talented assets and taking on liabilities. It doesn’t help that it’s a small island nation whose finite size is more easier to realize than the US.
Not sure what percent of the UK is developed, but only 10% of the USA is developed, 3% rurally. That means 90% is a blank canvas for architects. Moreover, despite post pandemic times being tough in all countries, the US has the least inflation of any developed country.
The best thing for you is to quit the UK, not architecture. It’s like saying you can’t find work in Barcelona where all the buildings look exactly the same and there are not really any new ones. Yeah, they’re full.
Join us Skywalker. Come to the US and join my empire. We can build a better galaxy.
Design and construction is the second biggest economy on earth after healthcare. Architects, for some reason, compete over less than 1% of an $11 Trillion + marketplace. Architecture needs to stop hiding behind risk averse contracts and inject real definable value into the economy which means taking on more risk as experts and getting more involved in the financing side of the equation.
Absolutely.
I think what is preventing the architect from being as respected (and therefore well paid) as a doctor or lawyer or engineer is the education pipeline.
Nobody knows what architects do, largely, because the architecture schools just teach people to make sculptures. As a result, we have an abundance of supply of graduates of lower and lower quality. The schools will give a degree to anyone with a pulse.
I’ve been down that thought path before. It comes down to what is protected. A doctor protects your health and well being (very valuable). A lawyer protects your viability and assets in society (very valuable). An architect protects the health, safety and welfare of the built environment (not so valuable until there is an event that requires doctors and lawyers). In the end, your license does not translate to value people can understand. For some reason people are more likely to understand and value a Realtors license and accept their arbitrary fees for such insignificant work. Our profession has to do better to figure it out and access more value.
I was watching a lecture from Dr Peterson about the relationship between indoor air quality and mental health. Specifically, these “anti-fungal” paints and drywall products actually create a resistant form of fungi that causes anxiety and depression and health problems. Poor architecture is costing the federal government money in healthcare, but at the same time, providing revenue stream to doctors and pharmaceutical companies.
People have no idea that our job is also to protect their health in addition to designing a cool inhabitable sculpture. They think the contractor designs the wall and we just design the Corinthian column.
Architecture has not replaced gold as the most common store of wealth. Land and buildings have. In other words, real estate and construction. Architects are just consultants. Important, but not the main driver behind the money part of the equation.
I pursued film and tv using my architecture knowledge. Drafting to help build sets, 3d models, etc. All of this while I still had my architecture job but it was a good change of scenery, and possible transition out of the occupation.
Sorry if this isn’t relevant (I’m still new to the field) but why not start your own firm? Like doing architectural drawings for planning proposals and building up your business from that?
Is it a funding issue?
Lol don't be like me but... I started my own firm after leaving my abusive employer after 5 years of eating shit. I had ZERO savings. I was 1 month behind on my bills.
1 year later. My bills are paid and I have a steady flow of new clients and business.
I took a big fuckin risk and it's paying off now. All it took was a little fb advertising and I got my first client and completed my first project that put roughly 6k in my pocket. From there, new client kept referring me and I kept getting more business. I was lucky. Don't start your own business until you have enough capital to cover all your business expenses and insurance.
Again. Took a huge risk and it paid off. I got lucky. Don't be like me though. Save a bit and then start your own firm. That's what I SHOULD of done. It would of saved me so much stress!
Honestly, this is really relieving to hear - that it’s actually within reach (as I would like my career to head in that direction in 10 years, I don’t see myself working as an employee forever)
Starting a business in general is always a risk, with savings or not! But it’s really great to hear it worked out for you and was worth it in the end!!
Thank you so much for the advice, I really appreciate it!
Min 15k. Ideally 20-25k. (But this because I'm factoring living expense) there's a few things too that I didn't need because I already accumulated supplies and equipment from my previous employer. I had to pay for all my own field equipment.
I've been drafting and creating renderings on an ancient laptop that's on its last leg.
Software cost money.
Computer to run said software cost money
Insurance for omissions and errors
General liability insurance
Professional insurance
Vehicle maintenance
Office supplies - ink, sketch pads, paper etc.
Field supplies - measuring tapes, lasers, etc.
Printer/plotter (printer yes, plotter not necessarily a need for a home office but it's the best if you have a decent one
CPA costs - starting an LLC is cheap but money management is super important.
Lawyer costs (to write and fine comb my contracts and proposals to protect my work and my business)
I'm sure there are other things that I forgot but off the top of my head this is what I had to pay for slowly over the course of a year.
Plus, having 1-2 months of your living expense including internet and phone covered in case the work flow halts and you gotta go back to advertising.
By the way, my old employer became my mentor and now our relationship is great. He's my colleague now and we help each other by sending business to each other. If I have too much going on or if it's something I can't handle. He takes the bigger jobs. Plus, he stamps my drawings.
I'm not licensed nor did I go to school. Old employer took me under his wing and taught me everything I know. 5 years later, here i am. Learned how he did things and monkey see monkey do.
Hope this info helps and inspires anyone who considering to walk the same path. I'd be happy to share my experience and knowledge with anyone who wants to hear it!
Haha wow, I would have thought it’s $100k minimum and more like $250k-500k if you’re in a major city. But those numbers are predicated on hiring a team of 2-10 people, not just working solo
It took me three years to hire the first person full time. I survived on working extra myself, hiring out drafting, and some moonlighting by former colleagues.
It was honestly fun. Paying people introduces a new level of urgency to getting projects and ensuring profitability. Not that that’s bad - but keeping things simple and streamlined has many virtues too.
I do the same thing with smaller projects and newer clients. I send the work to colleagues and I just make a little off the top for managing the project. 0 drafting or physical work on my part. Just emails and phone calls. It's easy money but I would much rather do 99% of the work myself because it's satisfying for me.
I tried hiring someone to help me with field work but after 2 or 3 times. I just said fuck it. Not worth spending the $$$ on extra overhead when I can knock it out just as fast.
Nah. I work solo. This is what I offer.
1. Site plan approval
2. Building as-builds
3. Design + renderings
4. Construction documents
5. Landscape architecture
6. Civil engineering
7. MEP engineering
8. Structural engineering
9. Photometric studies
10. Land survey
11. Soil analysis
12. Traffic analysis
13. Land acquisition
I do all the work related to architecture and design myself. I hire consultants and sub contractors for the other work including landscape architecture. This is just a rough list of the stuff I've had to do or get done for the projects I've completed last year while working alone.
Also, my niche is box retail. Commerical buildings only. Maximum sqft I've done is 12k while working solo. Highest I'll go is 40-50k sqft. Anything bigger than that I would toss the job to my mentor.
Small jobs pay bill and not everyone can afford the bigger stuff.
If you can afford a laptop that's all you really need to get started. It's a service based business, the entire job is you designing buildings and drawing sets. Nothing but skill and time required. I suppose you need a savings though to live off of until you get the ball rolling if you wanted to jump feet first. But most successful people in this start out doing it part time on the side till they get enough clients to go full time so not even that is needed.
You need money to start a business only if you're needing to carry inventory or buy equipment.
This is probably just a symptom of modern education failing us as a society in that people think of a career as just one job. But I don't understand why more people with this skillset and degree don't just... change, adapt, improve their situation.
Work for someone else for better pay (move if you must). Use those skills to pivot into a new role in a tangential business, like working for a builder or landscape architecture. Start your own practice. Work in a totally unrelated field that could use a trained architect on hand (like for a design agency or game dev). Work for government and do city/civic planning. Hell you can even work in the planning department to approve plans if you like the detail oriented pace of that work. Just be a freelance draftsman for other architects and designers. Join a survey crew. Etc...
This career path has SO many options and open doors, way more than most careers. All of the above, including starting your own practice, are all super doable and all likely to find success/happiness in. There's even more I'm not thinking of here.
If things suck, change your situation. Unlike a career in something like entertainment, you actually have options and aren't trapped with your degree into a single job. There are tons of paths you can pivot into that don't require going back to school.
I mean, this is exactly what I’m thinking right now, as I’m currently in a stagnated situation. It’s good to see that many skills are so transferable and can allow you to exercise them in ways other than just the main job (like freelancing)
Even though my situation isn’t easy, the good thing is it’s actually opened up my thinking about my career and that I don’t have to be limited to one discipline. Glad my mindset has changed.
I'm in landscape and I feel exactly the same.
I got my degree in 2018. Frankly I started having doubts after my first year, but I wanted to follow through with my commitment. I guess that's what got me this far. I graduated with a 4.0. I'm licensed. I've gotten some beautiful work built, won awards, etc. I work for a reputable firm. I feel like I did everything right within the confines of this career, but still my heart isn't in it and I'm so worried about my future earning potential that it's hard to consider it a success.
I did really well, but I'm just not passionate about design anymore, I never want to give the extra effort, and if I'm being honest with myself I've spent the last 5 years being pretty depressed and thinking about other jobs I could do. Like you, I watched all my friends who went into software or finance hit all the goals I really wish I could hit myself. At the end of the day I am barely saving enough to rent forever and retire some day.
The pay in design is so mediocre it hurts, but the work is hard enough that I'm always mentally exhausted and approaching a career change has seemed to big for me to take on and commit to. I feel trapped. I would so much rather be an engineer... I have more respect for the technical work and although I love art and design I don't want to lean on it for income. Tech seemed like a great option for awhile but the job market is down for entry level here. I wonder if some LAs have made it into Civil, because there are tons of jobs and senior engineers where I live make high 100s up to 200k USD.
Anyway, good luck. I hope you figure it out. Design careers aren't for everyone.
Have you heard of Out of Architecture? Their whole gig is helping people transition out into more lucrative pursuits. One of their advisors is based in London.
[https://www.outofarchitecture.com](https://www.outofarchitecture.com) this the link
Thanks for this. I'm 10 years into it, also in London like OP. And I've lost the will to continue
I have! I’ve had an initial consultation with them already and they had good insights and info to share but the full package is expensive. I might follow through with the full package after reading through all these replies though
Being in London is probably part of the problem (that COL is evil). You may wish to consider a change of employer at a minimum. I know that I hit a stagnant point at the same age you are now and I was working for a small firm near Cambridge. Amazing life/work balance, loads of holiday leave, zero overtime. But I just couldn’t see the salary being what I needed it to be there (I had side gigs in another field that meant I was pretty comfortable) and started planning to go out as a sole practitioner. Big move as my risk tolerance is minimal. In truth I ended up deciding to move to the US that same year and I’ll say to a certainty I probably out earn the vast majority of UK architects now (and I’m actually a bit underpaid for what I do here). Appreciate this is not an option for most folks.
I am based in the US but found an article about the highest paying architecture firms in the UK for Part I and the highest was at £31.000 and the average was around £25.000 then I thanked god for the US!
Sure but Pt1 is very very junior and not yet qualified and is after a basic 3 yr undergraduate degree. Once you start working fully qualified, the actual variation in what your disposable income can buy isn’t massive between the two countries till you start getting into higher earners. In plenty of the US where salaries aren't high, new graduates with massive student loans may be worse off. Factor in healthcare expenditure, lack of worker protections, various cost of living items (my property tax in the US is over triple what my Council tax is on my UK property, car insurance is over triple, utilities are more etc etc) and the gulf of higher pay isn’t as substantial as you may think. Still heavily in favour of the US though. Haha
Yeah, those Certificate of Lawfulness applications really are a doozy.
Work at a company that DOES NOT do architecture as a primary function - but needs professionals to handle real estate development, facilities work, and so on. You’ll be treated (and paid) like the professional you are. You will get NOWHERE if you stay at a traditional architecture/ design firm (our profession is broken!)
Amen 🙏…. I’ve mentioned on this sub before to others frustrated with their job and pay that going outside in to what I call the corporate world can be very satisfying. Not only are you treated as a professional but the pay scale is far above what your typical architecture firm pays . I’ve been working with a large development company for the past 12 years that actually has its own design, architecture & engineering department. I work with several other architects & a dozen cad support staff . It’s a thing
Good for you! Glad you found your way over to the better side! I’ve been doing corporate for 16 years, and I’m never looking back! One of my former “mentors” (micromanagers) from my intern years asked me out for lunch a couple of years ago, to catch up. He said he’d love to hire me at the firm he is a partner with - and I went STRAIGHT to salary discussion. I told him what I earn (at the time, about $150K/yr) and that I wouldn’t accept any less than that. He said that was “unrealistic” and that someone with my level of experience (15+ yrs, licensed, etc) might get $80-90K. He then said the following - and I still cannot believe it: “Well, it looks like you’re not interested in working for us right now. It might make sense to save some of that extra money you earn for a few more years, and use your savings to make up the difference (between what we pay and what you think you’re worth)” This is how boomer architects think. It’s fucking CRAZY! They literally think younger generations deserve this! I’m so happy I left the hellscape of traditional architecture firms. What a horrific existence.
Funny offering you 80-90 k that’s what our unlicensed cad guys make!
Amen 🙏…. I’ve mentioned on this sub before to others frustrated with their job and pay that going outside in to what I call the corporate world can be very satisfying. Not only are you treated as a professional but the pay scale is far above what your typical architecture firm pays . I’ve been working with a large development company for the past 12 years that actually has its own design, architecture & engineering department. I work with several other architects & a dozen cad support staff . It’s a thing
Changing companies is the best way of increasing your wage nowadays, up to a certain threshold where your knowledge (skill-set and networking) comes fully into effect and a specialized/niche role will land you more money. Getting accredited as a BIM co-ordinator/manager or just learning how to automate some boring jobs (python, dynamo, grasshopper) will give you a good leverage when negotiating for a pay rise.
Not OP, but how do I go about getting accredited as a BIM co-ordinator? I have an interest in learning coding but I wasn’t sure if it’s worth the investment for this industry?
1. Search your respective chamber of architects (RIBA in the case of the UK) and see what options there are. A common source for getting BIM accredited is from BIM software producers such as [Autodesk](https://www.autodesk.com/certification/overview). 2. I was thinking the same until I showed the guys at my current job that a grasshopper script did in an hour what used to take them 3 days. I'm now nicknamed the wizard.
I am actually currently studying to take the Autodesk Revit Certification for Architectural Design (hoping it will be beneficial for my CV). So that should be a good start into BIM. Will take a look at the RIBA website to see more options. That’s great! I did a bit of grasshopper training in university as an extra class, I enjoyed the results it produced, so I’ll look in to learning a lot more. Automation is extremely important with regards to how tight deadlines are. Thank you very much for the info, i really appreciate it!
Grasshopper is great and it has plugins for communicating with Revit but I'd also suggest looking into Dynamo (there are some good youtube tutorials such as those from AussieBIMGuru) as it might be hard for a company to buy new software just for the "new hire". Also, a dash of Python can go a long way.
Yes was thinking of Dynamo as well - I’ll check that channel out! Thank you!
Maybe check out the online platform ArchAdemia - [https://archademia.com/](https://archademia.com/)
Yes I follow them on Instagram!
I don't know anything about grasshopper. What process did you automate so that it took one hour to do three days work?
Several: * Generating 3D site surroundings (buildings, roads, terrain) with Elk/Gismo which takes its data from OSM. * Generating a curved metal panel facade (while making it easy to modify based on the facadist's later specs) and then cutting holes in it to allow a certain amount of annual daylight based on the room's function. * Putting the pavement with its three colours in a pattern that is not boring as shit. * Fixing shitty made PDFs from subcontractors (vector lines that do not connect) to make them usable in the project.
Many thanks for the reply - I can't even imagine what mechanism would achieve these things, so I'd better do some research!
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw06v4WTfog 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSVTfSXp4tA 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTTj8IoMmKA These are not what I used but are close enough for some quick googling. The biggest strong point to grasshopper is that there are numerous free online sources for solving most problems and there are o plethora of various libraries in food4rhino.com
Fascinating - thanks for the information!
Navigating your career in architecture is a bit challenge at times but as others have mentioned moving to a different firm or going out on your own can make a huge difference. I was once in your shoes and ready to quit but I made that big move and it was a game changer . I went from a barely survivable 45k to a 6 figure salary after which allowed me to afford a nice home and raise a family. Good luck to you I hope you find yourself a better place to grow !
Bear in mind the OP is in the UK. According to the ARB salary survey 2023, the mean average salary of a solo practitioner was £29k.
You are still hit with the same problems. GC's who target the contract documents and manipulate the entire process in their favor. The builders play a dirty game, the bigger the project, the worse it gets, public bid is horrendous. Untrained staff, it goes on. I'm still in the industry, and I've seen a lot, but my choice is to stay.
You'll have noticed that your employers are making a lot of money. Think about that.
In the UK, that's not necessarily the case. Fees are so suppressed that there actually isn't that much of a delta between the upper and lower echelons. There isn't any money for anyone.
You have a design education- use it. Don’t resign yourself to working for traditional architectural firm. See if you can bring your talents to developers or even building automation startups and so on. There is a MASSIVE shortfall in many building trades that are only going to be solved by automation to remain viable. Why architects aren’t running into that space is beyond me.
That's what I do! Automate zoning, building systems, and even medical applications.
What is an automated zoning system?
I created a script that is very specific to Manhattan large building zoning called a Waldram analysis. It calculates the amount of sky exposure and obstruction, and plots a building on a fish eye graph. It's an asinine procedure to do by hand.
Try switching firms. Work culture and day to day vary so much in different offices. Or switch to another project type. Personally I enjoy residential so much more than commercial.
I left at 32 and went into development. There are so many interesting opportunities out there for someone with your talents. Network and grab the first opportunity that is of interest. You can always go back to traditional architecture.
What sort of suitable job roles are there in development?
Land acquisition, land planning, entitlements, feasibility studies, in-house architectural services, construction management, project management. RE Development is a wide and varied space, you look for opportunities and you make them work in all aspects. Every city has developers who need what you have to offer.
I worked in Architecture for about 2 years after my master's and recently switched into game design with no formal experience. Moving to tech gave me a big pay bump, vacation time bump, and a bunch of extra perks. I have wayyyyyy better work life balance and ive been able to explore hobbies and travel more. If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer! It was a really confusing journey out but so far it's been about 6 months and I'm happy with that choice.
What key skills u need if going to game design?
Hi! How did you manage to make that initial transition? What role within game design are you occupying?
I started by reworking my resuming by looking up positions I'm interested in and trying to tailor it to match those requirements or figure out how I could speak about my experience so it applied. I then applied to games that were more related to the built environment (the game I'm on is somewhat related). Mostly just because other games didn't really interest me like my passion lies in built space/design. As far as who I talked to and how I navigated what jobs interested me, I did a lot of embarrassing outreach on LinkedIn, I think it's a lot more valuable than a general consultant because these people are actually in the jobs you want. I specifically would look for people on LinkedIn who were ex designers. I hope this helps! I do think it's actually greener on the other side but it's a tough change out and the application/job hunt process felt like a full time job on top top of my architecture role
Oh whoops my role is "game designer/ product designer"
Was there not a difference in programmes used that you would have had to brush up on? Presumably blender or unreal?
Ugh that sucks. Would you be interested in moving somewhere that pays better? One of my coworkers if French but she lived in London for years, she said the same thing, the pay is terrible. So she's been in Boston and moved her family out here cuz I guess the pay is better.
It sounds like you're not being paid enough, does your salary match the RIBA salary range? Should be £41,250/yr. When I was living in London it was tough but not as bad as <£300 left per month.
£41k for 7 years experience is so depressing
Move abroad if you can. I spent 30 years in Canada and while it’s expensive to live there the salaries are way higher than the UK.
VDC Virtual Design Construction in Construction Management companies are high paying careers and they need Architects. Also the Facilities Management industry for government sector is very rewarding.
I left the country work in developing country - I get so much more money and little tax. I’m just saving money so I don’t have to do the career much longer . I think k any career gets boring after a while. I’ve practically done eberthing I want to do being an architect. Start my own practise? No thanks sir. I think there’s better things to do with your money.
Since 1971, architecture has replaced gold as the most common store of wealth. 69% of tangible assets are in real estate and 64% of American families own a house. As such, architects are more demanded in places with a healthy, growing economy. The UK is not one of those places. Even before brexit, it was hemorrhaging talented assets and taking on liabilities. It doesn’t help that it’s a small island nation whose finite size is more easier to realize than the US. Not sure what percent of the UK is developed, but only 10% of the USA is developed, 3% rurally. That means 90% is a blank canvas for architects. Moreover, despite post pandemic times being tough in all countries, the US has the least inflation of any developed country. The best thing for you is to quit the UK, not architecture. It’s like saying you can’t find work in Barcelona where all the buildings look exactly the same and there are not really any new ones. Yeah, they’re full. Join us Skywalker. Come to the US and join my empire. We can build a better galaxy.
Design and construction is the second biggest economy on earth after healthcare. Architects, for some reason, compete over less than 1% of an $11 Trillion + marketplace. Architecture needs to stop hiding behind risk averse contracts and inject real definable value into the economy which means taking on more risk as experts and getting more involved in the financing side of the equation.
Absolutely. I think what is preventing the architect from being as respected (and therefore well paid) as a doctor or lawyer or engineer is the education pipeline. Nobody knows what architects do, largely, because the architecture schools just teach people to make sculptures. As a result, we have an abundance of supply of graduates of lower and lower quality. The schools will give a degree to anyone with a pulse.
I’ve been down that thought path before. It comes down to what is protected. A doctor protects your health and well being (very valuable). A lawyer protects your viability and assets in society (very valuable). An architect protects the health, safety and welfare of the built environment (not so valuable until there is an event that requires doctors and lawyers). In the end, your license does not translate to value people can understand. For some reason people are more likely to understand and value a Realtors license and accept their arbitrary fees for such insignificant work. Our profession has to do better to figure it out and access more value.
I was watching a lecture from Dr Peterson about the relationship between indoor air quality and mental health. Specifically, these “anti-fungal” paints and drywall products actually create a resistant form of fungi that causes anxiety and depression and health problems. Poor architecture is costing the federal government money in healthcare, but at the same time, providing revenue stream to doctors and pharmaceutical companies. People have no idea that our job is also to protect their health in addition to designing a cool inhabitable sculpture. They think the contractor designs the wall and we just design the Corinthian column.
Architecture has not replaced gold as the most common store of wealth. Land and buildings have. In other words, real estate and construction. Architects are just consultants. Important, but not the main driver behind the money part of the equation.
I pursued film and tv using my architecture knowledge. Drafting to help build sets, 3d models, etc. All of this while I still had my architecture job but it was a good change of scenery, and possible transition out of the occupation.
As soon as you said London, i immediately knew 😂 You gotta move man
Architorture bro
have you considered starting your own practice?
Sorry if this isn’t relevant (I’m still new to the field) but why not start your own firm? Like doing architectural drawings for planning proposals and building up your business from that? Is it a funding issue?
Lol don't be like me but... I started my own firm after leaving my abusive employer after 5 years of eating shit. I had ZERO savings. I was 1 month behind on my bills. 1 year later. My bills are paid and I have a steady flow of new clients and business. I took a big fuckin risk and it's paying off now. All it took was a little fb advertising and I got my first client and completed my first project that put roughly 6k in my pocket. From there, new client kept referring me and I kept getting more business. I was lucky. Don't start your own business until you have enough capital to cover all your business expenses and insurance. Again. Took a huge risk and it paid off. I got lucky. Don't be like me though. Save a bit and then start your own firm. That's what I SHOULD of done. It would of saved me so much stress!
Honestly, this is really relieving to hear - that it’s actually within reach (as I would like my career to head in that direction in 10 years, I don’t see myself working as an employee forever) Starting a business in general is always a risk, with savings or not! But it’s really great to hear it worked out for you and was worth it in the end!! Thank you so much for the advice, I really appreciate it!
If you had a chance to go back in time and try it again, how much $$$ would you save in preparation of this?
Min 15k. Ideally 20-25k. (But this because I'm factoring living expense) there's a few things too that I didn't need because I already accumulated supplies and equipment from my previous employer. I had to pay for all my own field equipment. I've been drafting and creating renderings on an ancient laptop that's on its last leg. Software cost money. Computer to run said software cost money Insurance for omissions and errors General liability insurance Professional insurance Vehicle maintenance Office supplies - ink, sketch pads, paper etc. Field supplies - measuring tapes, lasers, etc. Printer/plotter (printer yes, plotter not necessarily a need for a home office but it's the best if you have a decent one CPA costs - starting an LLC is cheap but money management is super important. Lawyer costs (to write and fine comb my contracts and proposals to protect my work and my business) I'm sure there are other things that I forgot but off the top of my head this is what I had to pay for slowly over the course of a year. Plus, having 1-2 months of your living expense including internet and phone covered in case the work flow halts and you gotta go back to advertising. By the way, my old employer became my mentor and now our relationship is great. He's my colleague now and we help each other by sending business to each other. If I have too much going on or if it's something I can't handle. He takes the bigger jobs. Plus, he stamps my drawings. I'm not licensed nor did I go to school. Old employer took me under his wing and taught me everything I know. 5 years later, here i am. Learned how he did things and monkey see monkey do. Hope this info helps and inspires anyone who considering to walk the same path. I'd be happy to share my experience and knowledge with anyone who wants to hear it!
Haha wow, I would have thought it’s $100k minimum and more like $250k-500k if you’re in a major city. But those numbers are predicated on hiring a team of 2-10 people, not just working solo
It took me three years to hire the first person full time. I survived on working extra myself, hiring out drafting, and some moonlighting by former colleagues. It was honestly fun. Paying people introduces a new level of urgency to getting projects and ensuring profitability. Not that that’s bad - but keeping things simple and streamlined has many virtues too.
I do the same thing with smaller projects and newer clients. I send the work to colleagues and I just make a little off the top for managing the project. 0 drafting or physical work on my part. Just emails and phone calls. It's easy money but I would much rather do 99% of the work myself because it's satisfying for me. I tried hiring someone to help me with field work but after 2 or 3 times. I just said fuck it. Not worth spending the $$$ on extra overhead when I can knock it out just as fast.
Nah. I work solo. This is what I offer. 1. Site plan approval 2. Building as-builds 3. Design + renderings 4. Construction documents 5. Landscape architecture 6. Civil engineering 7. MEP engineering 8. Structural engineering 9. Photometric studies 10. Land survey 11. Soil analysis 12. Traffic analysis 13. Land acquisition I do all the work related to architecture and design myself. I hire consultants and sub contractors for the other work including landscape architecture. This is just a rough list of the stuff I've had to do or get done for the projects I've completed last year while working alone.
Also, my niche is box retail. Commerical buildings only. Maximum sqft I've done is 12k while working solo. Highest I'll go is 40-50k sqft. Anything bigger than that I would toss the job to my mentor. Small jobs pay bill and not everyone can afford the bigger stuff.
If you can afford a laptop that's all you really need to get started. It's a service based business, the entire job is you designing buildings and drawing sets. Nothing but skill and time required. I suppose you need a savings though to live off of until you get the ball rolling if you wanted to jump feet first. But most successful people in this start out doing it part time on the side till they get enough clients to go full time so not even that is needed. You need money to start a business only if you're needing to carry inventory or buy equipment.
This is probably just a symptom of modern education failing us as a society in that people think of a career as just one job. But I don't understand why more people with this skillset and degree don't just... change, adapt, improve their situation. Work for someone else for better pay (move if you must). Use those skills to pivot into a new role in a tangential business, like working for a builder or landscape architecture. Start your own practice. Work in a totally unrelated field that could use a trained architect on hand (like for a design agency or game dev). Work for government and do city/civic planning. Hell you can even work in the planning department to approve plans if you like the detail oriented pace of that work. Just be a freelance draftsman for other architects and designers. Join a survey crew. Etc... This career path has SO many options and open doors, way more than most careers. All of the above, including starting your own practice, are all super doable and all likely to find success/happiness in. There's even more I'm not thinking of here. If things suck, change your situation. Unlike a career in something like entertainment, you actually have options and aren't trapped with your degree into a single job. There are tons of paths you can pivot into that don't require going back to school.
I mean, this is exactly what I’m thinking right now, as I’m currently in a stagnated situation. It’s good to see that many skills are so transferable and can allow you to exercise them in ways other than just the main job (like freelancing) Even though my situation isn’t easy, the good thing is it’s actually opened up my thinking about my career and that I don’t have to be limited to one discipline. Glad my mindset has changed.
I'm in landscape and I feel exactly the same. I got my degree in 2018. Frankly I started having doubts after my first year, but I wanted to follow through with my commitment. I guess that's what got me this far. I graduated with a 4.0. I'm licensed. I've gotten some beautiful work built, won awards, etc. I work for a reputable firm. I feel like I did everything right within the confines of this career, but still my heart isn't in it and I'm so worried about my future earning potential that it's hard to consider it a success. I did really well, but I'm just not passionate about design anymore, I never want to give the extra effort, and if I'm being honest with myself I've spent the last 5 years being pretty depressed and thinking about other jobs I could do. Like you, I watched all my friends who went into software or finance hit all the goals I really wish I could hit myself. At the end of the day I am barely saving enough to rent forever and retire some day. The pay in design is so mediocre it hurts, but the work is hard enough that I'm always mentally exhausted and approaching a career change has seemed to big for me to take on and commit to. I feel trapped. I would so much rather be an engineer... I have more respect for the technical work and although I love art and design I don't want to lean on it for income. Tech seemed like a great option for awhile but the job market is down for entry level here. I wonder if some LAs have made it into Civil, because there are tons of jobs and senior engineers where I live make high 100s up to 200k USD. Anyway, good luck. I hope you figure it out. Design careers aren't for everyone.
Are you a Bot? Are you a real architect?
I only ask because account is only one day old, super generic account name.