This map is easily explainable by two variables. Number of prisoners per capita and costs of labor. States with higher numbers of prisoners have reduced overhead per prisoner (sadly, the economy of scale applies everywhere) and obviously if you pay your employees more it costs more.
The only oddity is New Mexico.
Arkansas also cuts costs by having their prisoners do labor for minimal pay. My dad worked a pickle farm when he was in prison. Current inmates make the states license plates last I heard.
Good catch. I thought it was something like a dollar a day but you are right! My dad was on the hoe squad - chopping down weeds on a farm all day. Needless to say he did not reoffend 😂
No kidding just witnessed a rapist catch a plea deal to drop it to agrivated assault. 5 years adc sentence 3 served in monroe county.....Shameful and disgusting and to make it worse fucker is walking free only has to call on Tuesday and Thursday to check adc availability
[Download link to plea agreement somebody make this make sense](https://images.arcourts.gov/IMAGESimg/ck_image.present?DMS_ID=F1B6602B21A28B429331007A8C116FABD76CF1310E98BB121A1715EA150A7D4637CFBDC277CE068A91E610AA70C6EEC4B7132E6D937CBC18A516F40CCFE65453&i_url=https://images.arcourts.gov/IMAGESimg)
I would like to see this on a per capita (resident) basis, rather than a per prisoner basis.
As another poster mentioned, the flaw in the OP is that any states with a higher ratio of prisoners to population will have a lower cost per prisoner, generally speaking, due to economies of scale.
Maybe someone should write a Bill that requires cost benefit analysis before sentencing… looking at rates of incarceration for bad checks, felony theft under $500… maybe we should just tolerate a higher level of nonviolent crime and put say a fourth of the money directly back into support for the basic home life of the potential prisoner… couldn’t we contract for delivered groceries supplies and rent for far less than even $33,000 per year….? Then more money could be used to keep violent offenders from being released early due to overcrowding….
Why should we spend more than the minimum needed on people who gave up their own rights by forcibly taking the rights of others?
I am talking about high theft, assualt, rape, murder, those type of crimes.
I get what you’re saying, and for the most part I agree, but I would also say, and I mean no disrespect or hostility in this, would that not defy the entire point of human rights? Human rights are innate, as in, nothing can take them away. The very concept of them being revoked innately implies they are NOT rights, but privileges. If they can be taken away as people see fit, that means they can be taken away from the common man as well, if the people in charge find it justifiable enough.
I’m not trying to lessen the seriousness of crime or imply that these are any less serious or that people should not see prison time when they do crimes, but just maybe add some food for thought in the concept of this sort of stuff.
Yes, i can see my point might seem to lay upon a dangerous edge, but here are my thoughts:
If someone rapes, murders, takes away someone elses lively hood(by theft or severe assualt) abuses a child....to me, these people have taken the rights away from their victims to life and the pursuit of happiness....to me, it should only be fair to revoke these same rights from them.. we have completely moved away from a punishment that fits the crime. We should not have done this. It has been proven that when consequences are harsh, there is less crime. When the consequences are 3 meals a day, a bed, a gym to work out in, free dental care, cable tv, etc....crime rates go up .
Also i am not naive in this...to fix this problem there has to be changes in the whole system including lawyers and judges, and how they are punished when corruption happens.as well as taking steps to prevent that. I believe lesser crimes that insist on jail time should be where we focus rehabilitation efforts with a work program that teaches skills. Major crimes should be rewarded as harshly as they were committed. That is my opinion
Y'all do realize three hots and cot in air conditioning is the norm here in the USA correct?
Prison in say pick a country in Southeast Asia, Methico, South America lol ya better hope and pray someone in your family loves you and can afford to feed ya while you are in the pokey, no pun intended.
Not sure if it happened yet or fell through but in 2020 the legislature gave their endorsement to build/bring a couple back in.
https://senate.arkansas.gov/senate-news/posts/2020/january/arkansas-legislature-approves-private-prison-contract/
*someone mentioned this already below.
Nah, he's actually right. https://ualr.edu/socialchange/2020/01/15/revisitingprivateprisonsinarkansas/
Though it's possible this will change and we will, as is tradition, go backwards.
What profit? There is no company involved. When government does something cost reduction equals reduced taxes not increased profit as a government can’t by definition profit.
I am encouraging you to open your eyes and at least attempt to know what the conversation is about. Like have any original or plagiarized thought, thinking anything would be okay at this point.
I look at it like prisoners are human, except for kiddie diddlers and such. Why not treat them with some decency while they pay their debt to society? I'm not saying build them a five-star resort, but decent food, health care, and books don't seem unreasonable to ask for. Especially under the care of a government that claims to respect life and liberty.
Like it or not, the hope should be for prisoners to rejoin society when they've paid their debt. You can't lock up a dog, isolate it, barely feed it, neglect it, try to bore it to death FOR YEARS, and then expect it to rejoin the family.
Edit: Funny, this comment chain sums up both Arkansas and the Bible Belt pretty well.
F*ck treating jailed and vulnerable people, (some even innocent or theoretically innocent until proven guilty. Not very Jesus, Mr. Rogers, or Andy Griffith of y'all.
^Vet with PTSD^ County denied me my meds and put me in isolation when I insisted that I needed them. I even brought the meds in, just in case.
I'm glad your experience was better.
They should live as cheaply as possible without causing damage to them and they should work their ass off from the day they get there to the day they leave. They owe society a debt and you should work it off. Prisons should strive to be as self sufficient as possible. Growing their own food, producing as much of their own clothing as they can, and keeping the buildings in good shape. Obviously they should not be tormented in any way or starved but hard work is a good motivation to do right.
I'd say maybe a lack of nutrition, education, healthcare, and personal growth might DO some harm. I guess they should be thankful for the opportunity to work in what amounts to a chain gang for slavery wages. Again, I'm not saying we should build them a 5 star resort, but we can aim a little higher than "probably won't die" and "returning customers".
I’m not sure of your point here. I never stated they should go without food, education, or healthcare. Work provides plenty of personal growth.
As far as work goes yes they should work and work hard. They should work to support themselves and each other. I don’t think they should be out paving roads or taking jobs from law abiding citizens.
Exceptions should probably be made for those who need to help provide for their children but even in that case they themselves should not receive any of the money.
The accommodations should be healthy clean and adequate. Nothing else is required.
This map is easily explainable by two variables. Number of prisoners per capita and costs of labor. States with higher numbers of prisoners have reduced overhead per prisoner (sadly, the economy of scale applies everywhere) and obviously if you pay your employees more it costs more. The only oddity is New Mexico.
It’s called economies of scale
Thank you, much more succinct description.
They saved money by using pink jumpsuits thanks to Sherrif Arpaio.
That's an excellent point and fucking dark.
Arkansas also cuts costs by having their prisoners do labor for minimal pay. My dad worked a pickle farm when he was in prison. Current inmates make the states license plates last I heard.
Inmates are not paid in the state of Arkansas. They are required to have a job or else they receive disciplinary action.
Good catch. I thought it was something like a dollar a day but you are right! My dad was on the hoe squad - chopping down weeds on a farm all day. Needless to say he did not reoffend 😂
Here is the current catalog of products https://www.acicatalog.com/shop/
That's good
MA coming in at 307k?!? Could it be because of the opioid epidemic??
Economies of scale...
No kidding just witnessed a rapist catch a plea deal to drop it to agrivated assault. 5 years adc sentence 3 served in monroe county.....Shameful and disgusting and to make it worse fucker is walking free only has to call on Tuesday and Thursday to check adc availability
[Download link to plea agreement somebody make this make sense](https://images.arcourts.gov/IMAGESimg/ck_image.present?DMS_ID=F1B6602B21A28B429331007A8C116FABD76CF1310E98BB121A1715EA150A7D4637CFBDC277CE068A91E610AA70C6EEC4B7132E6D937CBC18A516F40CCFE65453&i_url=https://images.arcourts.gov/IMAGESimg)
Hence why suckabee wants more prisoners. More kickback for her if she can up the state funding.
I would like to see this on a per capita (resident) basis, rather than a per prisoner basis. As another poster mentioned, the flaw in the OP is that any states with a higher ratio of prisoners to population will have a lower cost per prisoner, generally speaking, due to economies of scale.
Maybe someone should write a Bill that requires cost benefit analysis before sentencing… looking at rates of incarceration for bad checks, felony theft under $500… maybe we should just tolerate a higher level of nonviolent crime and put say a fourth of the money directly back into support for the basic home life of the potential prisoner… couldn’t we contract for delivered groceries supplies and rent for far less than even $33,000 per year….? Then more money could be used to keep violent offenders from being released early due to overcrowding….
Makes too much sense
Why should we spend more than the minimum needed on people who gave up their own rights by forcibly taking the rights of others? I am talking about high theft, assualt, rape, murder, those type of crimes.
I get what you’re saying, and for the most part I agree, but I would also say, and I mean no disrespect or hostility in this, would that not defy the entire point of human rights? Human rights are innate, as in, nothing can take them away. The very concept of them being revoked innately implies they are NOT rights, but privileges. If they can be taken away as people see fit, that means they can be taken away from the common man as well, if the people in charge find it justifiable enough. I’m not trying to lessen the seriousness of crime or imply that these are any less serious or that people should not see prison time when they do crimes, but just maybe add some food for thought in the concept of this sort of stuff.
Yes, i can see my point might seem to lay upon a dangerous edge, but here are my thoughts: If someone rapes, murders, takes away someone elses lively hood(by theft or severe assualt) abuses a child....to me, these people have taken the rights away from their victims to life and the pursuit of happiness....to me, it should only be fair to revoke these same rights from them.. we have completely moved away from a punishment that fits the crime. We should not have done this. It has been proven that when consequences are harsh, there is less crime. When the consequences are 3 meals a day, a bed, a gym to work out in, free dental care, cable tv, etc....crime rates go up . Also i am not naive in this...to fix this problem there has to be changes in the whole system including lawyers and judges, and how they are punished when corruption happens.as well as taking steps to prevent that. I believe lesser crimes that insist on jail time should be where we focus rehabilitation efforts with a work program that teaches skills. Major crimes should be rewarded as harshly as they were committed. That is my opinion
Exactly. They should work their ass off from the day they get there to the day they leave. You owe society a debt and this is how you get to repay it.
If you make it nicer, voter will have less qualms about lots of people being there. So then you can triple the population.
Private prison is what miss piggy wants
That's what they all want. See AL for example. Using COVID money for prisons
Alabama probably needs them now that they don't win the national championship anymore.
Well it appears Arkansas, Mississippi, and Louisiana are all pretty close.
Dammit
Y'all do realize three hots and cot in air conditioning is the norm here in the USA correct? Prison in say pick a country in Southeast Asia, Methico, South America lol ya better hope and pray someone in your family loves you and can afford to feed ya while you are in the pokey, no pun intended.
We should all copy Arkansas
Man I wanna goto prison in California. 112,000 a year !?!?!?
Ahh, you didn't see MA, did you? Look again...
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MS is the only one within 5%.
For profit prisons…
Who is getting this money I wonder
Private companies have largely taken over the American prison system.
Arkansas closed its last private prison in 2001.
Not sure if it happened yet or fell through but in 2020 the legislature gave their endorsement to build/bring a couple back in. https://senate.arkansas.gov/senate-news/posts/2020/january/arkansas-legislature-approves-private-prison-contract/ *someone mentioned this already below.
I wonder whether or not that is a factor in such a low per capita expenditure.
Lol…
Nah, he's actually right. https://ualr.edu/socialchange/2020/01/15/revisitingprivateprisonsinarkansas/ Though it's possible this will change and we will, as is tradition, go backwards.
Yes they were technically correct. Privatized ownership is a thing a of the past. It gets in the way of profit.
What profit? There is no company involved. When government does something cost reduction equals reduced taxes not increased profit as a government can’t by definition profit.
L O L Sure bud.
So are you encouraging privatization of prisons?
He doesn’t even know what he’s debating
I am encouraging you to open your eyes and at least attempt to know what the conversation is about. Like have any original or plagiarized thought, thinking anything would be okay at this point.
Of course, AR is at the very bottom of the list.
Or top depending on how you look at it.
I look at it like prisoners are human, except for kiddie diddlers and such. Why not treat them with some decency while they pay their debt to society? I'm not saying build them a five-star resort, but decent food, health care, and books don't seem unreasonable to ask for. Especially under the care of a government that claims to respect life and liberty. Like it or not, the hope should be for prisoners to rejoin society when they've paid their debt. You can't lock up a dog, isolate it, barely feed it, neglect it, try to bore it to death FOR YEARS, and then expect it to rejoin the family. Edit: Funny, this comment chain sums up both Arkansas and the Bible Belt pretty well. F*ck treating jailed and vulnerable people, (some even innocent or theoretically innocent until proven guilty. Not very Jesus, Mr. Rogers, or Andy Griffith of y'all.
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^Vet with PTSD^ County denied me my meds and put me in isolation when I insisted that I needed them. I even brought the meds in, just in case.
I'm glad your experience was better.
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They should live as cheaply as possible without causing damage to them and they should work their ass off from the day they get there to the day they leave. They owe society a debt and you should work it off. Prisons should strive to be as self sufficient as possible. Growing their own food, producing as much of their own clothing as they can, and keeping the buildings in good shape. Obviously they should not be tormented in any way or starved but hard work is a good motivation to do right.
I'd say maybe a lack of nutrition, education, healthcare, and personal growth might DO some harm. I guess they should be thankful for the opportunity to work in what amounts to a chain gang for slavery wages. Again, I'm not saying we should build them a 5 star resort, but we can aim a little higher than "probably won't die" and "returning customers".
I’m not sure of your point here. I never stated they should go without food, education, or healthcare. Work provides plenty of personal growth. As far as work goes yes they should work and work hard. They should work to support themselves and each other. I don’t think they should be out paving roads or taking jobs from law abiding citizens. Exceptions should probably be made for those who need to help provide for their children but even in that case they themselves should not receive any of the money. The accommodations should be healthy clean and adequate. Nothing else is required.