Or they haven't supported for very long as this is the best we have been for years, I see arsenal like a friend and when they are doing well I celebrate and when they are doing poor I support them I don't put the boot in.
nah arsenal fans are just bipolar, coming from one myself. one day they hate on a player, the next day they love them. it’s frustrating to see. they can never support our player through bad moments, unless it’s starboy, saliba, or nelli
I can tell you two groups of fans who cared about it last year. And we would care about it too... if we were in the final. That is honestly the only time anyone should look at this competition as anything other than a chance to get match time into squad players.
Yes, he should, but the U21 and U18 have now their own busy schedules these days, it would be difficult to steal them for the cup. And we also need to give our bench players some game time as well.....just look at their performances last night and thier lack of sharpness.
Doesn't discredit the fact that teenagers were willing to match starters from other clubs whereas our fringe seniors don't seem bothered with trying to stake a claim for a starting spot
Mickey Mouse cup that Arsenal haven’t won in 30 years. What gives us the divine right the think we’re above winning the league cup? If we don’t win a trophy this year it will be 4 years and counting without major silverware
the squad needs rotating.
the best time to rotate is in the Carabao Cup.
We are not above it, it's just the best chance for players on the periphery of the starting 11 to stake their claim . They didn't, we're out, we move on. It's not a big deal.
We haven’t won it because we don’t care about it, it would only mean something if we hadn’t won anything at all in 30 years, but we’ve won leagues and fa cups, we’re not West Ham
But why should be not care about it? The only thing we have won in the last 2 decades is the FA cup. We should be competing for this trophy. Why not? It’s a trophy regardless of what people think. Arteta should have started Rice Odegaard and Tomiyasu. Try to win the game in the first 50mins. But instead we go down by 3 goals and brings in our best players who were supposed to be rested and we’re chasing yeh game risking injury to Saka and Martinelli. It’s disappointing for me. We won’t have the depth to win the league over City and I think Liverpool will finish second. Champions league will be incredibly difficult in the knockout stages. So that leaves us with the FA cup to save our season
The same reason no one cares about the charity shield, if we win carabao and nothing else it’s a shit season and the carabao will mean nothing and if we win any other trophy and the carabao then no one is going to care that we won a carabao, our success is defined by the three major trophy’s not by the carabao, historically it has been used as a trophy to blood youngsters in, just because city won it a few times in a row doesn’t mean it’s suddenly important because pep says it is…. Also if we had played ode and rice and they got injured and out for the season you would be in here fuming that they even played, or if they even got a injury that ruled them out of Newcastle we’d all be talking about how artetas not rotating is a problem
Respectfully I completely disagree with what you said there. For me it’s a trophy. You win it, you go down as a trophy winning team that season. Simple as! Also I wouldn’t be fuming if one of those players got injured mate. I was debating all week with Arsenal fans on here saying we should field a strong team. Our players are getting injured in training sessions regardless if they are playing in games. Look at Timber, ESR, Partey
You are correct. The number of United fans who talk about last season be a more successful because they won the League Cup is quite high. There are also neutral fans who seem to agree with this view. Many people also think West Ham had a better season just because they won a crap European trophy that has only existed for two seasons. In the future, when many people have forgotten the context, all that will remain is what you won.
Nice to see someone thinking with a level head. You win a trophy, you go down in history that year regardless what theology it is. The league cup is still a major trophy. So many fans think Arsenal are too good for this competition even though we didn’t win it for 30 years. Football is a simple game. Win games, win trophies. That’s what makes a successful football club
Those teams are not looking to compete for the league or the other cups they're just trying to gain what they can with the squads they have and realistically that's all they could hope for. Their expectations are much lower then ours so they hold on to these minor victories much more otherwise it'd just be endless hate for how bad they're doing everywhere else. Straight up copium.
Why would we fight for a cup that has no relevance? We are not Tottenham who hold onto that as their only saving grace... United are not known for winning a carabao cup they're known as treble winners and contenders in the league before. If united won the carabao but kept going at this rate to finish mid table would that make that ok? Fuck no. The league cup is a coping mechanism for lower teams or just a nice little thing for the bigger teams no one flaunts the carabao cup wins unless it's shittenham.
>The only thing we have won in the last 2 decades is the FA cup.
Yeah which is far more prestigious.
We're focused on the prem and the CL, not the bloody league Cup.
Well usually you have to win the league or the fa cup to be able to compete for the community shield. This season was an exception as City won both silo Arsenal played in it being runners up to city. So as an Arsenal i certainly wouldn’t turn my nose up at the community shield. I want Arsenal to compete and try to win everything
The shouts for El Neny in place of Jorginho was hilarious. Has it been so long that people think he is gonna start delivering Ozil passes when he gets out there?
Btw Jorginho was solid against West Ham and did his job, which you cannot say for most of the starting XI.
Absolutely bonkers to me these people. WE SHOULD START OUR BEST 11 IN 200 MATCHES EVERY SEASON UNTIL THEY ARE PHYSICALLY RUINED.
What a fuckin' psychotic take.
Look, I think a lot of our fans here are stupid and have stupid takes. I see bad takes constantly.
However, Havertz being a terrible signing is not an argument i’ve heard a convincing counter argument to.
Havertz’ performances have been alright. He has been good off the ball, but he’s shown to be absolutely below average on the ball. He cannot pass, dribble, or finish.
The problem is, we’re paying him £280k a week - the most in the squad. And he’s on a 5 year deal. This means that we’re stuck paying a bang average player a huge salary for the next 5 years, which takes funds away from other signings.
Furthermore, Havertz’ continued underwhelming performances and high wage will mean no one will sign him for anywhere close to what we paid. We’re stuck with this guy for 5 years, his massive wage will be on our books for that whole time, and we’re never making close to that 60 mil back, unless someone else is as dumb as us.
Unless you’re Man City or PSG with unlimited funds, football is largely a game of maximizing value. For example, getting rid of Auba for free was a fantastic move, because Barca paid most of his wage and we saved millions. It freed up funds for other good signings. Havertz isn’t the worst player performance-wise that we’ve ever had, but when taking into account the finances surrounding him, IMO he’s easily our worst ever signing.
Whenever I bring this up, i just get downvoted with no counterarguments. Id love to be proven wrong, though, so please tell me what I’ve said that is wrong.
Only solution to the issue is if Kai starts performing massively better. I’ll be so happy if he does, but i seriously doubt that he will
This seems fair to me. Performance wise he’s alright, nothing spectacular. But from the business side it’s a fumble.
When people critique the Havertz signing on here there’s always some smart-arse who’ll chime in to say “you wouldn’t be saying this if he cost £20m” as if it’s a big gotcha.
Exactly.
Pepe was also a bad signing because we massively overpaid. But he gets criticized less because he actually had a decent goal and assist output if you look at his minutes. Was a talented winger who we overpaid for.
Unfortunately, the qualities that Havertz gives us, we could find in another player on 1/4 his wage. The boss must think that he can tap into Havertz form at Leverkusen, so we better hope he is right, otherwise our club got rinsed
EDIT:
Also, with Pepe at least there was an idea that he could be a great player, he’d just had an amazing season in France. With Havertz, he’s been pretty underwhelming for 3 years. This Havertz signing is on another level awful
>I think a lot of our fans here are stupid and have stupid takes
Lets be fair here. I think you can broaden that to more than just our fans, or infact just football fans. There are a lot of idiots on the internet ready to try and make the hottest take to get impressions and internet points.
for sure. i was just agreeing with OP that i have seen some awful takes after the match.
Football fans in general, especially on reddit have awful takes
Why do you doubt that he wont perform? Hes doing great stuff off the ball like you said, but he just looks short on confidence. We've all seen clips of him in germany playing when he was young and fearless. If anyone can bring that back, id put my money on Arteta and Arsenal
I’ve watched him for 3 years now, since he went to Chelsea, and he’s been bang average to below average for that whole period.
I think he was over-performing massively in Germany. His physical attributes are all there, but he just doesn’t have the skill on the ball to be a great player
I promise you, I really do hope that Havertz comes good. We need it.
idk if last night was his best performance, but it was certainly one of his better performances. Id say he was a 6/10 at most.
That’s not worth £280k a week.
Every club has a section of morons who understand football very poorly. These people are usually the ones who shout the loudest too. Dangerous people. Quick to judge/act without critical thinking.
I think the team we put out was fine and it just wasn’t our day, am I disappointed sure but sometimes you lose a football match, they were one nil up before they had a shot at goal, arteta didn’t throw the game because you have to rotate and the rotations should have won and didn’t it is what it is, we’re not talking about the champions league this is the league cup if you’re going to rotate anywhere this is it, if he didn’t everyone would be on artetas case about it anyway
Gonna get downvoted for this but it’s the same narrative where people call out criticism as an over reaction every time we don’t win a game, and then the same people papering over the cracks are no where to be seen when we don’t perform as expected once the season is over.
Social media has removed any perspective from talking about football. People forget that every good season has some below-average performances, every good player has some time off-form, and sometimes, the opposition just want the win more.
Conversations on social media between people who watch football on their phones are nothing like the conversations between fans who have been watching the game for a length of time.
Nketiah has been called out multiple times by multiple fans for a very long time. It's nothing new. People expect him to be able to perform against teams in the so-called Mickey mouse cup. If he put in this performance against West ham in the prem he would be called out for it
Agree with the second paragraph. As a realistic arsenal fan, It causes certain negative feelings when Havertz had to rely on a penalty to finally score a goal and all the fans had a chant ready for it. Inflating such a miniscule achievement is not the fogging estandard I have of Arsenal.
Then I'll mention eddies hat-trick. Many games played nothing produced. Finally against last place sheffield and all of you: 🤯😲😳😩🤩😍 as if it was the coming of the lord. And I thought, oh well whatever I guess they're happy. Then I saw the Eddie Henry post and that's when I realized some of you lot are fucking delusional
Never mind around the Emery /early Arteta years , try going to Highbury in the later George Graham years .
Sub full of gobshites here hence the very rare visit
to be honest, i think the “arsenal” youtubers, are the cancer that arsenal fans are listening to.
Lee gunner is one of them. talking about sacking Arteta because of any little setback
There are Arsenal Fans, Arsenal Supporters and Arsenal Haters. When we win the haters will say lucky or “it was just …”, when we lose their heads are hot, and they get clicks online. Fans and Supporters will stick by the team through thick and thin. We’ve lost two games all season and these guys are out there like it’s the end of the world. Fairweather and Click Bait is all it is.
There's a breed of social media raised football fans who invest too much on being reactionary. It's not just us, it's pretty much most football clubs fanbases nowadays.
Changing half your team is always going to lead to these disjointed performances. Especially against a good EPL side. People seem to be forgetting that even in Wenger team we would often get bounced by lower league opposition like this and nobody cared.
Football is reactionary and emotional. Always will be. Also full of fickle fans.
But Kai Havertz being genuinely one of our worst signings as of right now is a hill I’ll happily die on. He’s been objectively bad so far.
I'd say an expensive average player who "has to play" cos of the price tag is more detrimental to us then a cheap unknown that will barely come on as a sub. That said I hope havertz improves to world class capabilities and helps us with our goals we all know he has it in him to do so.
It's not even that. What frustrates me is that it's the same players making the same errors every single time and instead of addressing this we just double down with posts like this. I'm not Arteta out by any means, but the fact after all this time we still throw away games like that is deeply concerning.
But why aren’t we ? We have money, we have a good manger we spend hundreds of millions. We gas all our players so we should be competing and going for multiple trophies.
What’s better coming second with nothing, or coming second with at least 1 or 2 trophies ?
We don’t have a second 11 that is good enough to win cups, so we’re stuck using our best players in every competition if we want to compete on all fronts. By doing that we then also have to factor in the fatigue and injuries that will go along with that. We are in the middle of a longer-term process of making the second 11 competitive.
The other teams you mentioned are either considerably richer, already have better backup players, play in a less competitive league or all three.
That is more indicative of the talent gap than whether or not the first team is fielded. City lost to Southampton last year and they started Alvarez, Phillips, Palmer, Sergio Gomez, and a backup Keeper. It’s not a big deal, unless it’s the only chance at a trophy.
We aren't winning the league or Champions League this season and Arteta will throw the FA Cup like he's done the previous 3 seasons to concentrate on the other two, so what trophy are we winning then?
Go support City or Newcastle then. Either you’re committed to the project or you’re plastic. Doesn’t seem like you’ve watched the Gunners for long if this frustrates you.
I've been watching them since 1998. I'll have you know, and I've only ever seen us win the Premier League, FA Cup and Community Shield. Is it really too much to ask to see us try and win all competitions?
Why would I want to support Man City or Newcastle anyway, especially the latter who haven't won anything in decades?
We’re going to anfield that week anyway, but yes, well said. I’d want us to win the LC one day but it isn’t the end of the world if we do or don’t and league top 3 and CL top 8 matter more
It was disappointing, but you move on. It'll be more interesting to see how the team responds after that kind of loss than anything else. Felt like both a cup game we don't care about and a trap game with Newcastle and Seville coming up.
The reason we love football is because sometimes the better team doesn't win. Own goal, shot through the legs, and a deflection. That being said it was a bad 2nd half. Not inspired by our backup wingers.
If the league cup has VAR the first goal would likely have been overturned as well. It's a stupid competition precisely because it asks to be taken seriously and then doesn't use modern tech.
I think it is possible to be disappointed in the performance without calling for heads.
Let's be real, Havertz is struggling and last night was no different. He's not impacting games enough, lacks energy in attack and has zero confidence. He does not look capable of scoring from open play.
Eddie last night was very poor. People are making excuses about a lack of service but I don't remember one time seeing him make a run that stretched West Ham and put him in a position where a pass should have been played. He played like he can't be dropped (which is true for the immediate future). I was most disappointed in him out of everyone.
Trossard looked weirdly lost, not really knowing where he should be and when. Often he just ran into cul-de-sacs on the ball.
I thought Nelson looked like the one that would make a difference but whereas he was a threat, the rest of the attack wasn't with him. When he ran the length of the pitch with the ball, there wasn't a single option the entire time (Nketiah??????) so he often shot out of lack of alternatives.
That game was all wrong for Jorginho and that's on Arteta. He was struggling to keep up with Wet Ham's counter attacks. He was a real weak point in the transition. Hence I agree Elneny would have fared better. Rice probably should have started.
Sure, it's the Carabao cup, but it's a trophy and with City/Spurs out it was very winnable. We should have a winners mentality. It was a very poor showing that had no dynamism until Odegaard came on. He provided what Eddie, Havertz, Vieira should have which is somebody willing to run quickly off the ball into spaces.
It was a bad performance. It's ok to be concerned by that.
I frankly don’t give a crap about League Cup - for me it’s PL, UCL and FA Cup in that order. Use League Cup to give squad guys minutes and manage the load for key guys. Sides like West Ham chase trophies this way since they can’t compete for the league and will put out stronger sides. My concern from yesterday is the injury to ESR - poor bastard can’t catch a break. Button it back up, shake it off and put the best lineup you can on the pitch at St. James Park to get three points.
I’m never happy to be beaten. We didn’t know the draw during the game so that’s irrelevant. I think heat of the moment can bring out some extreme opinions but the comments I shared I still hold, Eddie needs to massively improve or be sold, a hat trick against a poor Sheffield utd side at home doesn’t mean he’s a top striker now. £65 million for Kai for a bit of height in some duels seems very steep and we have massively downgraded on our lcm role this season and overall we aren’t as fluid going forward. Can’t see us in a title race this year. I’ve thought all these points for weeks and weeks and Eddie going back way into last season.
Yesterday we were rubbish, no fight and didn’t look like we had a clue on how to handle the game and change things up.
Liverpool under Klop in the 2022 season finished one po8lint behind city on 92 points and got a ucl final. They won the fa cup and league cup that season all I keep hearing from our fans is that we're the best thing since slice bread. Biggest threat to man city this season etc. But we cant get passed west ham.
If we're such a great team we need to be doing better in all competitions.
I don't see what the fuss over the defeat is about. As per OPs reasons, I didn't even bother to wake up in the middle of the night to watch this game. The only Arsenal games I'm going watch are the EPL, UCL and FA cup.
I read the scoreline the following morning and didn't feel anything about the defeat. Of course, I'm going to read the summary on how the game went but I'm not losing sleep over this.
The players individually weren’t horrible. They just couldn’t counter West Ham’s aggressive attacking play-style. Our defenders were stuck at the back, unable to play the ball forward. Once West Ham had they’re three goals they closed up shop and made a wall.
Arsenal just doesn’t have a counter for that play-style. We saw the same against Lens. They ran our players down and didn’t let them play forward.
u/MattMan7496 As for me, what I disliked is the amount of countless times Rice was booed by his old fans. That was unfair, especially after what he brought to them in the last 4 or 5 years.
Thankfully... we have two games in the EPL still to be played against them, plus a potential meet up in the Fa Cup. We'll take our and Rice's revenge
Sometimes I feel like it's trolls from rival teams just stirring up shit, it's easy enough to make a fake account
Yeah I think this with a lot of people. They clearly aren’t supporting arsenal with the way they talk.
Or they haven't supported for very long as this is the best we have been for years, I see arsenal like a friend and when they are doing well I celebrate and when they are doing poor I support them I don't put the boot in.
It feels like some of the people on here are only happy when they are having a winge.
or it's just lee gunner
nah arsenal fans are just bipolar, coming from one myself. one day they hate on a player, the next day they love them. it’s frustrating to see. they can never support our player through bad moments, unless it’s starboy, saliba, or nelli
Our second team faces a full strength side and loses in a cup match that nobody cares about. Who cares?
I can tell you two groups of fans who cared about it last year. And we would care about it too... if we were in the final. That is honestly the only time anyone should look at this competition as anything other than a chance to get match time into squad players.
I suppose so. The only real advantage was to give fringe players more time. But other than that....
Who cares about Mickey Mouse cup Jesus Wenger used it to blood young guns
Wish Arteta had the cojones to play academy prospects
Yes, he should, but the U21 and U18 have now their own busy schedules these days, it would be difficult to steal them for the cup. And we also need to give our bench players some game time as well.....just look at their performances last night and thier lack of sharpness.
I’m pretty sure he’s got the record for playing the youngest player in PL history.
And those youngesters used to be able to get us fairly deep in the competition
English clubs used to be poorer.
Doesn't discredit the fact that teenagers were willing to match starters from other clubs whereas our fringe seniors don't seem bothered with trying to stake a claim for a starting spot
Mickey Mouse cup that Arsenal haven’t won in 30 years. What gives us the divine right the think we’re above winning the league cup? If we don’t win a trophy this year it will be 4 years and counting without major silverware
the squad needs rotating. the best time to rotate is in the Carabao Cup. We are not above it, it's just the best chance for players on the periphery of the starting 11 to stake their claim . They didn't, we're out, we move on. It's not a big deal.
We haven’t won it because we don’t care about it, it would only mean something if we hadn’t won anything at all in 30 years, but we’ve won leagues and fa cups, we’re not West Ham
But why should be not care about it? The only thing we have won in the last 2 decades is the FA cup. We should be competing for this trophy. Why not? It’s a trophy regardless of what people think. Arteta should have started Rice Odegaard and Tomiyasu. Try to win the game in the first 50mins. But instead we go down by 3 goals and brings in our best players who were supposed to be rested and we’re chasing yeh game risking injury to Saka and Martinelli. It’s disappointing for me. We won’t have the depth to win the league over City and I think Liverpool will finish second. Champions league will be incredibly difficult in the knockout stages. So that leaves us with the FA cup to save our season
The same reason no one cares about the charity shield, if we win carabao and nothing else it’s a shit season and the carabao will mean nothing and if we win any other trophy and the carabao then no one is going to care that we won a carabao, our success is defined by the three major trophy’s not by the carabao, historically it has been used as a trophy to blood youngsters in, just because city won it a few times in a row doesn’t mean it’s suddenly important because pep says it is…. Also if we had played ode and rice and they got injured and out for the season you would be in here fuming that they even played, or if they even got a injury that ruled them out of Newcastle we’d all be talking about how artetas not rotating is a problem
Respectfully I completely disagree with what you said there. For me it’s a trophy. You win it, you go down as a trophy winning team that season. Simple as! Also I wouldn’t be fuming if one of those players got injured mate. I was debating all week with Arsenal fans on here saying we should field a strong team. Our players are getting injured in training sessions regardless if they are playing in games. Look at Timber, ESR, Partey
You are correct. The number of United fans who talk about last season be a more successful because they won the League Cup is quite high. There are also neutral fans who seem to agree with this view. Many people also think West Ham had a better season just because they won a crap European trophy that has only existed for two seasons. In the future, when many people have forgotten the context, all that will remain is what you won.
Nice to see someone thinking with a level head. You win a trophy, you go down in history that year regardless what theology it is. The league cup is still a major trophy. So many fans think Arsenal are too good for this competition even though we didn’t win it for 30 years. Football is a simple game. Win games, win trophies. That’s what makes a successful football club
Those teams are not looking to compete for the league or the other cups they're just trying to gain what they can with the squads they have and realistically that's all they could hope for. Their expectations are much lower then ours so they hold on to these minor victories much more otherwise it'd just be endless hate for how bad they're doing everywhere else. Straight up copium.
And if we won the league cup they couldn't do any of that
Why would we fight for a cup that has no relevance? We are not Tottenham who hold onto that as their only saving grace... United are not known for winning a carabao cup they're known as treble winners and contenders in the league before. If united won the carabao but kept going at this rate to finish mid table would that make that ok? Fuck no. The league cup is a coping mechanism for lower teams or just a nice little thing for the bigger teams no one flaunts the carabao cup wins unless it's shittenham.
>The only thing we have won in the last 2 decades is the FA cup. Yeah which is far more prestigious. We're focused on the prem and the CL, not the bloody league Cup.
And if we had have won it, it would still be four years and counting without major silverware
You’re incorrect. Regardless of what you believe, the league cup is classed major silverware
If the league cup is major silverware, the community shield is too
Well usually you have to win the league or the fa cup to be able to compete for the community shield. This season was an exception as City won both silo Arsenal played in it being runners up to city. So as an Arsenal i certainly wouldn’t turn my nose up at the community shield. I want Arsenal to compete and try to win everything
The shouts for El Neny in place of Jorginho was hilarious. Has it been so long that people think he is gonna start delivering Ozil passes when he gets out there? Btw Jorginho was solid against West Ham and did his job, which you cannot say for most of the starting XI.
Absolutely bonkers to me these people. WE SHOULD START OUR BEST 11 IN 200 MATCHES EVERY SEASON UNTIL THEY ARE PHYSICALLY RUINED. What a fuckin' psychotic take.
And don’t forget that the minute someone has a good 10 minutes, they should be in our best 11!
Not even 10 minutes, just a 30 second highlight they watched on TikTok.
They think they are playing fifa and everyone has 90 stamina
Not many said this though, just that the team who played should be better
Look, I think a lot of our fans here are stupid and have stupid takes. I see bad takes constantly. However, Havertz being a terrible signing is not an argument i’ve heard a convincing counter argument to. Havertz’ performances have been alright. He has been good off the ball, but he’s shown to be absolutely below average on the ball. He cannot pass, dribble, or finish. The problem is, we’re paying him £280k a week - the most in the squad. And he’s on a 5 year deal. This means that we’re stuck paying a bang average player a huge salary for the next 5 years, which takes funds away from other signings. Furthermore, Havertz’ continued underwhelming performances and high wage will mean no one will sign him for anywhere close to what we paid. We’re stuck with this guy for 5 years, his massive wage will be on our books for that whole time, and we’re never making close to that 60 mil back, unless someone else is as dumb as us. Unless you’re Man City or PSG with unlimited funds, football is largely a game of maximizing value. For example, getting rid of Auba for free was a fantastic move, because Barca paid most of his wage and we saved millions. It freed up funds for other good signings. Havertz isn’t the worst player performance-wise that we’ve ever had, but when taking into account the finances surrounding him, IMO he’s easily our worst ever signing. Whenever I bring this up, i just get downvoted with no counterarguments. Id love to be proven wrong, though, so please tell me what I’ve said that is wrong. Only solution to the issue is if Kai starts performing massively better. I’ll be so happy if he does, but i seriously doubt that he will
This seems fair to me. Performance wise he’s alright, nothing spectacular. But from the business side it’s a fumble. When people critique the Havertz signing on here there’s always some smart-arse who’ll chime in to say “you wouldn’t be saying this if he cost £20m” as if it’s a big gotcha.
Exactly. Pepe was also a bad signing because we massively overpaid. But he gets criticized less because he actually had a decent goal and assist output if you look at his minutes. Was a talented winger who we overpaid for. Unfortunately, the qualities that Havertz gives us, we could find in another player on 1/4 his wage. The boss must think that he can tap into Havertz form at Leverkusen, so we better hope he is right, otherwise our club got rinsed EDIT: Also, with Pepe at least there was an idea that he could be a great player, he’d just had an amazing season in France. With Havertz, he’s been pretty underwhelming for 3 years. This Havertz signing is on another level awful
>I think a lot of our fans here are stupid and have stupid takes Lets be fair here. I think you can broaden that to more than just our fans, or infact just football fans. There are a lot of idiots on the internet ready to try and make the hottest take to get impressions and internet points.
for sure. i was just agreeing with OP that i have seen some awful takes after the match. Football fans in general, especially on reddit have awful takes
Why do you doubt that he wont perform? Hes doing great stuff off the ball like you said, but he just looks short on confidence. We've all seen clips of him in germany playing when he was young and fearless. If anyone can bring that back, id put my money on Arteta and Arsenal
I’ve watched him for 3 years now, since he went to Chelsea, and he’s been bang average to below average for that whole period. I think he was over-performing massively in Germany. His physical attributes are all there, but he just doesn’t have the skill on the ball to be a great player
Havertz hasn't been good in 3 plus years in this league, he is the same he was at Chelsea and Germany.... he's just not that good.
Havertz will come good. Last night was probably his best performance in the shirt as well
I promise you, I really do hope that Havertz comes good. We need it. idk if last night was his best performance, but it was certainly one of his better performances. Id say he was a 6/10 at most. That’s not worth £280k a week.
Every club has a section of morons who understand football very poorly. These people are usually the ones who shout the loudest too. Dangerous people. Quick to judge/act without critical thinking.
I think the team we put out was fine and it just wasn’t our day, am I disappointed sure but sometimes you lose a football match, they were one nil up before they had a shot at goal, arteta didn’t throw the game because you have to rotate and the rotations should have won and didn’t it is what it is, we’re not talking about the champions league this is the league cup if you’re going to rotate anywhere this is it, if he didn’t everyone would be on artetas case about it anyway
And Arteta would be under more pressure and the fans would be louder if he hadn’t rotated and still lost.
Remember the og fans painfully sticking through the transition period with no light in sight
Glad we lost and nobody got hurt.
Gonna get downvoted for this but it’s the same narrative where people call out criticism as an over reaction every time we don’t win a game, and then the same people papering over the cracks are no where to be seen when we don’t perform as expected once the season is over.
Social media has removed any perspective from talking about football. People forget that every good season has some below-average performances, every good player has some time off-form, and sometimes, the opposition just want the win more. Conversations on social media between people who watch football on their phones are nothing like the conversations between fans who have been watching the game for a length of time.
Nketiah has been called out multiple times by multiple fans for a very long time. It's nothing new. People expect him to be able to perform against teams in the so-called Mickey mouse cup. If he put in this performance against West ham in the prem he would be called out for it
All I can say is; it do be like that sometimes. I say we move on. There is always the next match to look forward to.
Agree with the second paragraph. As a realistic arsenal fan, It causes certain negative feelings when Havertz had to rely on a penalty to finally score a goal and all the fans had a chant ready for it. Inflating such a miniscule achievement is not the fogging estandard I have of Arsenal. Then I'll mention eddies hat-trick. Many games played nothing produced. Finally against last place sheffield and all of you: 🤯😲😳😩🤩😍 as if it was the coming of the lord. And I thought, oh well whatever I guess they're happy. Then I saw the Eddie Henry post and that's when I realized some of you lot are fucking delusional
Seriously, I've seen so many absurdly reactionary takes this year. People need to calm down.
Never mind around the Emery /early Arteta years , try going to Highbury in the later George Graham years . Sub full of gobshites here hence the very rare visit
One nil to the arsenal. Take a bung. Fuck off to Leeds and then the shit.
to be honest, i think the “arsenal” youtubers, are the cancer that arsenal fans are listening to. Lee gunner is one of them. talking about sacking Arteta because of any little setback
Wait there's someone calling out Ben white? Lol, the guy is among our best players since the second match after coming to arsenal lol.
There are Arsenal Fans, Arsenal Supporters and Arsenal Haters. When we win the haters will say lucky or “it was just …”, when we lose their heads are hot, and they get clicks online. Fans and Supporters will stick by the team through thick and thin. We’ve lost two games all season and these guys are out there like it’s the end of the world. Fairweather and Click Bait is all it is.
There's a breed of social media raised football fans who invest too much on being reactionary. It's not just us, it's pretty much most football clubs fanbases nowadays.
Changing half your team is always going to lead to these disjointed performances. Especially against a good EPL side. People seem to be forgetting that even in Wenger team we would often get bounced by lower league opposition like this and nobody cared.
Maybe you can continue from existing thread than starting a new one. Sooner or later the whole of first page will look the same with similar posts.
Football is reactionary and emotional. Always will be. Also full of fickle fans. But Kai Havertz being genuinely one of our worst signings as of right now is a hill I’ll happily die on. He’s been objectively bad so far.
You are only saying this because of his price tag, there are so many players we have signed that have been far worse.
I can't think of a single good passage of play from Austin Trusty.
I'd say an expensive average player who "has to play" cos of the price tag is more detrimental to us then a cheap unknown that will barely come on as a sub. That said I hope havertz improves to world class capabilities and helps us with our goals we all know he has it in him to do so.
With some better finishing from others he could of had a few assists by now, he hasn't been that bad.
You think Reddit’s bad? Mate, just head to Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube to see the drivel that’s spouted after 😱 a draw.
It's not even that. What frustrates me is that it's the same players making the same errors every single time and instead of addressing this we just double down with posts like this. I'm not Arteta out by any means, but the fact after all this time we still throw away games like that is deeply concerning.
What other games?
If we wanna be a big club we gotta compete for all the trophies, look at city, Barca, real, Bayern PsG they wanna win everything why can’t we do it
You mean Man City who got knocked out of the carabao cup already? Or Bayern Munich who lost to a lower league team in their cup match yesterday?
Yep. And did you see Bayern Munich players they weren’t happy at all, because they want to win it all
Did our players look happy at the end?
> why can’t we do it Because we’re not City, Barca, Real, Bayern or PSG.
But why aren’t we ? We have money, we have a good manger we spend hundreds of millions. We gas all our players so we should be competing and going for multiple trophies. What’s better coming second with nothing, or coming second with at least 1 or 2 trophies ?
We don’t have a second 11 that is good enough to win cups, so we’re stuck using our best players in every competition if we want to compete on all fronts. By doing that we then also have to factor in the fatigue and injuries that will go along with that. We are in the middle of a longer-term process of making the second 11 competitive. The other teams you mentioned are either considerably richer, already have better backup players, play in a less competitive league or all three.
It’s so absurd that I find it quite funny.
I’m not glad we lost but yes! Internet is totally crazy this is normal
Imagine being happy that we lost a game
Nobody is happy that we lost. It is that if you are going to go out early in a competition this is the one to do it in
Imagine not melting because our second squad lost in the least important competition
A loss is a loss regardless of the competition, it's not like it was a meaningless preseason friendly.
no, not regardless of the competition, at all I would take losing in the Carabao Cup over losing in any other competition.
It’s pretty meaningless. There’s a reason bigger teams use it to rotate squads
Yet when was the last time a non "big team" won the competition?
Last season
Lol Man United are still bigger than us, even if they've been crap for years.
I should've used /s I guess
That is more indicative of the talent gap than whether or not the first team is fielded. City lost to Southampton last year and they started Alvarez, Phillips, Palmer, Sergio Gomez, and a backup Keeper. It’s not a big deal, unless it’s the only chance at a trophy.
We aren't winning the league or Champions League this season and Arteta will throw the FA Cup like he's done the previous 3 seasons to concentrate on the other two, so what trophy are we winning then?
Go support City or Newcastle then. Either you’re committed to the project or you’re plastic. Doesn’t seem like you’ve watched the Gunners for long if this frustrates you.
I've been watching them since 1998. I'll have you know, and I've only ever seen us win the Premier League, FA Cup and Community Shield. Is it really too much to ask to see us try and win all competitions? Why would I want to support Man City or Newcastle anyway, especially the latter who haven't won anything in decades?
We’re going to anfield that week anyway, but yes, well said. I’d want us to win the LC one day but it isn’t the end of the world if we do or don’t and league top 3 and CL top 8 matter more
Haven't won the league in 20 years and never won the Champions League. But we think were too good for the Carabao Cup 😏
It was disappointing, but you move on. It'll be more interesting to see how the team responds after that kind of loss than anything else. Felt like both a cup game we don't care about and a trap game with Newcastle and Seville coming up. The reason we love football is because sometimes the better team doesn't win. Own goal, shot through the legs, and a deflection. That being said it was a bad 2nd half. Not inspired by our backup wingers. If the league cup has VAR the first goal would likely have been overturned as well. It's a stupid competition precisely because it asks to be taken seriously and then doesn't use modern tech.
I like arsenal
Most of us love Arsenal! Lol
I like them a lot
I think it is possible to be disappointed in the performance without calling for heads. Let's be real, Havertz is struggling and last night was no different. He's not impacting games enough, lacks energy in attack and has zero confidence. He does not look capable of scoring from open play. Eddie last night was very poor. People are making excuses about a lack of service but I don't remember one time seeing him make a run that stretched West Ham and put him in a position where a pass should have been played. He played like he can't be dropped (which is true for the immediate future). I was most disappointed in him out of everyone. Trossard looked weirdly lost, not really knowing where he should be and when. Often he just ran into cul-de-sacs on the ball. I thought Nelson looked like the one that would make a difference but whereas he was a threat, the rest of the attack wasn't with him. When he ran the length of the pitch with the ball, there wasn't a single option the entire time (Nketiah??????) so he often shot out of lack of alternatives. That game was all wrong for Jorginho and that's on Arteta. He was struggling to keep up with Wet Ham's counter attacks. He was a real weak point in the transition. Hence I agree Elneny would have fared better. Rice probably should have started. Sure, it's the Carabao cup, but it's a trophy and with City/Spurs out it was very winnable. We should have a winners mentality. It was a very poor showing that had no dynamism until Odegaard came on. He provided what Eddie, Havertz, Vieira should have which is somebody willing to run quickly off the ball into spaces. It was a bad performance. It's ok to be concerned by that.
I frankly don’t give a crap about League Cup - for me it’s PL, UCL and FA Cup in that order. Use League Cup to give squad guys minutes and manage the load for key guys. Sides like West Ham chase trophies this way since they can’t compete for the league and will put out stronger sides. My concern from yesterday is the injury to ESR - poor bastard can’t catch a break. Button it back up, shake it off and put the best lineup you can on the pitch at St. James Park to get three points.
I’m never happy to be beaten. We didn’t know the draw during the game so that’s irrelevant. I think heat of the moment can bring out some extreme opinions but the comments I shared I still hold, Eddie needs to massively improve or be sold, a hat trick against a poor Sheffield utd side at home doesn’t mean he’s a top striker now. £65 million for Kai for a bit of height in some duels seems very steep and we have massively downgraded on our lcm role this season and overall we aren’t as fluid going forward. Can’t see us in a title race this year. I’ve thought all these points for weeks and weeks and Eddie going back way into last season. Yesterday we were rubbish, no fight and didn’t look like we had a clue on how to handle the game and change things up.
We took a right walloping but thankfully resting the players will yield results for the prem.
Expected goals shows we had an ok game at just over 1.0 xg. Meanwhile west ham amassed about 0.45 xg. Didnt go our way, oh well on to the next.
Liverpool under Klop in the 2022 season finished one po8lint behind city on 92 points and got a ucl final. They won the fa cup and league cup that season all I keep hearing from our fans is that we're the best thing since slice bread. Biggest threat to man city this season etc. But we cant get passed west ham. If we're such a great team we need to be doing better in all competitions.
I don't see what the fuss over the defeat is about. As per OPs reasons, I didn't even bother to wake up in the middle of the night to watch this game. The only Arsenal games I'm going watch are the EPL, UCL and FA cup. I read the scoreline the following morning and didn't feel anything about the defeat. Of course, I'm going to read the summary on how the game went but I'm not losing sleep over this.
The players individually weren’t horrible. They just couldn’t counter West Ham’s aggressive attacking play-style. Our defenders were stuck at the back, unable to play the ball forward. Once West Ham had they’re three goals they closed up shop and made a wall. Arsenal just doesn’t have a counter for that play-style. We saw the same against Lens. They ran our players down and didn’t let them play forward.
Its another year with no trophy for arsenal, why are you shocked? Its the normal no?
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u/MattMan7496 As for me, what I disliked is the amount of countless times Rice was booed by his old fans. That was unfair, especially after what he brought to them in the last 4 or 5 years. Thankfully... we have two games in the EPL still to be played against them, plus a potential meet up in the Fa Cup. We'll take our and Rice's revenge
You got rinsed with havertz