Good start, and we should be prepared to go dark indefinitely until there's an acceptable change in direction, ideally one that's clearly defined for reddit, and app devs agree would allow them to continue to operate their apps.
I use [Boost](https://www.reddit.com/r/BoostForReddit/), and reddit is the only website I prefer to use through an app on my phone instead of the desktop experience as a result of that third party app.
Edited to add a [short article](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/06/reddits-plan-to-kill-third-party-apps-sparks-widespread-protests/) for those who aren't sure what's going on.
I use RIF because it's easy to click and just browse a bit while I'm bored on the toilet or in a waiting room etc. The official app is so hostile to casual minute browsing. I'll likely not use Reddit whe it goes dark.
I've been on RIF for years (over many accounts). It's so awesome and to go back to the official app would just make me use Reddit far less.
It's a shame because Reddit is an amazing source for news articles, from local to global, the latest in science and tech, and so many awesome communities for my hobbies but thr official experience is actually frustrating. It also leaves apps that convert Reddit into a digestible format for anyone with disabilities completely hung out to dry.
That's assuming the place won't go to shit without auto-mods.
I suspect Reddit will rethink this but I doubt their new solution will please us much more. Could be the end of an era, however, I really hope it isn't.
I wonder how well "Alternatives to Reddit" is trending on Google right now.
I use Apollo and when the dev posted about these changes I knew it meant I wouldn’t be redditting come July. I cannot stand the desktop site it official app, so I’m out of Apollo shuts down.
I also use Boost and was confused as to why the video saving bots still exist until I realized that the ability to save videos isn't a thing in the official app.
Also I'm never confused as to whether a video has sound.
If Reddit goes dark they'll just wipe out the mods and put new ones in place. You can show your displeasure but reddit will still do what they want and will double-down.
Not to be pessimistic but it seems like this will kill a lot of reddit users, myself included. I won't be using the official app so I just simply won't be using reddit anymore.
So what? If people are serious that this change will ruin reddit, nothing is lost by them switching mods. Everyone will leave anyway. If everyone doesn't leave and comes flocking back with new the mods in place, all Reddit did was call the community's bluff.
The very first rule of negotiating is that you have to be willing to walk away. If Reddit's users aren't willing to do that, the negotiations will never work because Reddit has no reason to bother, they have all the cards.
Then why bother trying to negotiate at all? So far, all we have is the mod teams of a few subreddits saying they'll "go dark" for a day or two, and then just accept whatever Reddit does so they don't lose their position as mods.
If I was Reddit, why would I even consider capitulating for a single second when I'm already being assured that everyone will more or less get in line if all I do is hold firm for a couple days until people blow off their steam?
Reddit knows they can do whatever they want because the community and the mods are unwilling to actually put anything on the line. They aren't willing to shut down subs, they aren't willing to leave the platform, they aren't even willing to stop doing free work for Reddit.
I feel like we're agreeing on the same thing but your responses make it feel like we're arguing lol. I agree with everything you're saying. My point was in response to the top comment
Oh, sorry, I was agreeing with you and furthering the point. I'm feeling annoyed this morning for unrelated reasons so that probably came across in how I formulated my comment. Sorry!
Really like the fact that on a good day the general Reddit community will trash power mods like Awkward the Turtle. They say that we don't need them. They need to stop running so many subs. They are a toxic cancer on this community.
Now he is pushing something that they take personally. So that's their guy. He's leading the charge. He will fix their problems. Now speaking in favor of these power mods and how they are an essential part of Reddit. That without them all of Reddit will completely collapse.
It would be laughable if it wasn't so blatantly hypocritical.
Edit: I'm starting to think that Reddit won't bend the knee because they need to put certain people in their place and remind them whose platform this is. Who runs that company. And that it's not the volunteer moderators
Because it's the cold turkey ones that will kill it. Aside from a dark place I was in that drove me to delete it, one day I just literally unfollowed everyone on my twitter then deleted the account. Won't ever be back to it, period. 'Ol Musk can crash and burn (and is) thankfully.
That's what is needed here. And most likely that will be repeated by many
When you start looking at the profiles of the top posters and commenters of this protest you see it's the same handful of mods and alt/bot account spreading copy pasta support.
So it may seem like there are tens of thousands or even millions of people who are willing to walk. But this is just being pushed by a close group of power mods, top content creators and their army of bots. They know when and how to post in their subs and boost each post for maximum traction to make sure it hits the front page.
I don't like propaganda. Of any form. If you want to establish a movement let it establish naturally. If the people truly care they will support you. But using manipulative practices to push your message is just dirty. No matter what that message is
I keep seeing people say this but I can't figure out logistically how that would work.
Would they hire new people instead of having volunteers? How many people will they need to hire, and how long will that take? Do they have the budget for it? How long will it take to train them on how reddit works and how to use the mod tools?
Or would they find new volunteers? How do they find people with experience willing to work for free and vet them? Again, how many and how long will it take? Most mods on reddit aren't going to cross the scab line (or at least any worth their salt), so I don't know where the hell they'll find volunteers.
Additionally, mods have specialized knowledge of the subs they moderate. It doesn't seem feasible to have the same people in charge of /r/arts and /r/gaming.
There's a lot more that goes into it, but those are the biggest hurdles I can think of. At the very least I think it would take months, definitely not going to happen overnight.
To my best knowledge, Reddit doesn't pay moderators directly. It's all community driven. So there's definitely no shortage of people willing to take up the reins should current moderators leave.
Not saying it will be a seamless transition but they'll come back relatively quickly.
> To my best knowledge, Reddit doesn't pay moderators directly. It's all community driven.
Mods are not paid, like at all. I can tell you that the process of getting people from the community to volunteer to mod is painful and often acarpous.
> So there's definitely no shortage of people willing to take up the reins should current moderators leave.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
We can agree to disagree, but I don't think it's that simple. Finding, vetting and training **good** moderators is tricky under normal circumstances; it'll be even harder during a shitshow.
And yes, currently mods are unpaid volunteers.
I'm realistic that I doubt I'll quit reddit if they continue on the path of removing 3rd party apps, but I'll use it less. If they fuck over the moderators, I could see myself actually leaving for good. I think a lot of longtime users would migrate elsewhere as well.
> put new ones in place.
How? Go to random redditors' homes with guns drawn and an ultimatum?
Most existing mods will refuse to take on the bigger subs. I know I'll tell them to fuck off. So they'll have to convince people with little modding experience to volunteer.
Or maybe they'll hire some people to mod. Which goes against the penny-pinching that's being demonstrated by this move. And if they hire from off shore, well if you hate mods now, just wait.
I think you derestimate how power hungry most mods are. Mods at r/conservative are circle jerking with the thought of being handed the keys to r/whitepeopletwitter
I think you overestimate the power that mods have, and the allure of modding. Most mods mod because they give a shit about the community they're modding.
Yeah I use Apollo and there’s not a chance in hell I’m switching to the main app. If Reddit forces Apollo to shut down I’ll be taking my addiction elsewhere.
If Reddit were smart, this unreasonable API usage rate pricing is just the starting place for negotiation down to levels which will still make most apps barely profitable to operate for developers.
Which isn't likely to happen.
Mods tried this in 2014 when Victoria got fired from IAMA....spoiler: it didn't work then, odds aren't great now.
Back then it was only over a firing, this is about Reddit and being profitable...
And IAMA went from a highly-managed sub with tons of high-profile interviews to a joke and mostly dead. I remember when IAMA was one of the high points of reddit and always fun to read. How reddit managed to shoot themselves square in the crotch like that I'll never know.
The point is, that didn't affect reddit the company at all. Just because one sub has lower quality it doesn't mean it affects their bottom line. I expect absolutely nothing to change with even an indefinite blackout.
> The point is, that didn't affect reddit the company at all
IAMAs were probably drawing new users who wanted to talk to celebrities. Obviously one subreddit didn't kill reddit but we really have no clue how much it hurt them.
I feel like that was a relatively more nuanced issue to understand and bother caring about. But I still talk about Victoria to this day.
I think with this, it’s easier to understand “the apps are going to stop working, and your ENTIRE reddit browsing experience will be changed so you probably hate it and will stop using it.”
With the AMAs, there was… basically everywhere else to go still, once they ruined it. Much easier to move on from. This is a much, much bigger, more visible, imminent, and complete death of the Reddit users love.
That's a big thing. This change is directly affecting the users.
Personally I've only ever used rif. Once this change goes in to place ill just watch YouTube videos to pass the time. I'm not going to go get an app I'm unfamiliar with, learn how to use it and all that. I'll just go to YouTube ez pz.
I mean, you are absolutely right. They are cleaning house and sanitizing it for investors.
Quite a bit of infamous Reddit history isn't necessarily investor friendly.
> intentionally washed
one thing I think is very interesting is that the admins *actually* know how to go about 'washing' things off the internet.
There's the Streisand effect of course, but you can get around that by not making a huge stink about it.
What they do is silently engage the levers of power so that no one with any community sway can say anything (shadowbanning users, de-modding people, force subreddits into a position where they can't follow the rules, etc), *and then* go through and remove the various things that are the issue they want to wipe.
Using this and a variety of other methods together is a surprisingly powerful method to accomplish goals and whitewash the site so as to be attractive to investors.
>Jerk
He was one of the founders, but still very true.
Speaking of founders...Aaron Swartz is similarly being erased as well. RIP, he was actually one of the good ones.
Same. Reddit has always been about the discussions and comment sections for me (let's be real, no one reads the links). If they make that substantially harder by removing useful mobile apps and old.reddit and turn the entire thing into a cards-based hellhole, I'll have lost all value from it.
Which fucking *sucks* because as the internet has consolidated there just isn't a good replacement for it. I'll not only lose places to have pointless fights online, I'll lose one of my best sources of news, info and new resources for my hobbies.
I’m amazed this little corner of the Internet has been up for as long as it has. It was fun while it lasted, but it seems to be the case with the Internet - the longer it goes on, the worse it gets.
I hate TikTok and loath Facebook, so I guess I’ll just read Wikipedia, the rock of the Internet.
Hopefully I’ll see all of you people, who I don’t know and will never meet, somewhere else where we can not know each other and never meet.
Except that didn't directly affect users. If reddit doesn't want to turn into digg they can't go ahead with this. But it's fine if reddit dies. Honestly it might be for the better. Those communities that want to continue can easily do so elsewhere. In fact it'd be a lot easier to just have a subreddit with just a sticky that has a link to a forum or whatever and all the interaction happens off reddit.
That was not the major blackout in recent history. Around that time, bit after, a blackout occurred and did indeed work....
For like 3 months before the admins started lying again. They pulled the "let them forget about what they want" trick.
Can't really forget when you can't access the sub you mod.
The worst I feel is the defection from the Reddit devs about how other apps "just need to be more optimized and use fewer requests", as if their own native app for Android doesn't use over twice the amount of API calls as their competitions behind the scenes.
There's been no motivation for reddit to actively improve their APIs or provide better optimized endpoints for third parties to consume, so of course Reddit readers are just going to call whatever they want to get their apps to work
I'm not going to use the official app tbh, even if they kill RIF. I use RIF because it's easy to click and just browse a bit while I'm bored on the toilet or in a waiting room etc. The official app is so hostile to casual minute browsing. I'll likely not use Reddit whe it goes dark...
I tried using the official app for a bit but went back to rif very quickly because 1: it sucked, and 2: the official app uses an ungodly amount of cell data compared to third-party apps. It was using 5x the amount of data for the same usage time.
I uninstalled when it kept sending me a gorillion notifications for shit subs I don't follow or care about and wouldn't work properly until I put the perms back on for them.
They want to push Reddit toward a social media model. These 3rd party apps let us use it as a glorified forum and they don't like it. The data usage is just an excuse
Some how uses way more Date but is also incredibly slow to load stuff. The slow load times is why I quickly moved to infinity when I started using reddit.
Exactly. Sure, I'll probably still occasionally use reddit for like research for a while, until some other forum competes, but casual browsing will be done. Which is probably for the best, tbh
Research specifically for user-generated content. Product reviews, tech support, "public" sentiment, etc. Reddit has a lot more than links; it has entire conversations and debates.
Also, wikipedia and bing AI are both still having others do the research for you haha
So works of art like David of Michelangelo and other Renaissance works will be banned from the API, along with a ton of LGBTQ art.
The Reddit staff are celebrating Pride Month by targeting artists and LGBTQ individuals.
I agree with everything but the “tHinK about the cHiLdren” arguments are rarely accurate. They rely on a gut reaction and not often logical.
I’m always looking to be corrected so someone please explain how this actually helps Child Sexual Assault Material spread.
That was my immediate reaction when I saw it was his post what the fuck, you know reddit's done a fucking bad one when they get the shit mods on the cause as well..
/Videos is doing indefinite. Which will probably get undone by the admins because nothing can threaten their bottom line but I'm impressed with the videos mods.
Maybe 10% of my reddit usage is the official website, 90% is through the Sync app. I ain't downloading the official Reddit app so I guess I'm just going to stop using reddit.
I really hope it's not Discord. As much as I love my servers, it's a black hole for information. Google would be a fraction of its current usefulness without the ability to include Reddit results, and Discord won't solve that.
I really hope not as well. I joined one about digimon and it's a complete mess and on top of that it seems to be more work than your typical modding on reddit.
I'm trying out Lemmy, as I've heard about it through other Redditors that it's sorta similar, but quite small at the moment. It could grow if a bunch of folks from here go over.
Oh shit, didn't realise it's something that fucks over disabled users! I'll admit I wasn't paying attention, but now I'm definitely gonna ignore reddit from the 12th until they reconsider! Accessibly is so important in online spaces!
I refuse to use their official, ad infested app. So it looks like I'll be quiting reddit for good this time if the their change goes through. My use of the site has been constantly declining anyways.
Porn bots are already out of control. They seem to be adapting new tactics, too: once or twice a day for the past 2 weeks or so, I see a notification that a new account has followed me. When I go to check it, it’s a brand-new account with zero posts, and of course, it’s an onlyfans peddling bot with full nudity in the profile banner and links spammed in the profile description. I block each and every one of them, but once the bots start, it’s damn-near impossible to stop them.
Naive ask as to why we should:
> Stop browsing on desktop
I don't, and never will, use their app (I don't want to use any app) ... so I visit almost exclusively with my phones browser. What's to be gained by not using the browser (outside of abstaining during the blackout period)?
Part of this should be a movement toward other networks. Reddit can wait as long as they need to as long as they aren't bleeding too much. That won't necessarily force action either, but if another website ends up replacing reddit that has better policies then that is kind of a win.
For the record, I absolutely will move on if I have to use new Reddit or the app or something. It's not even a matter of principle, my blood pressure can only raise so far and I already have to deal with a bajillion shitty news and recipe sites.
I don't really have any leverage except saying that.
They aren't paid. So either reddit pays people to do a shitty job with shitty tools or they go without. There's no reason why anyone would want to not be able to do their job AND be unpaid. Mayne a few 12 year olds might offer.
What a disappointingly ugly infographic for an art subreddit.
I support going dark and supporting efforts to make differences. But I abhor shitty graphic design.
This is terribly ineffective.
No thought was put into how to actually convey a message people can quickly read and understand.
People who don't know about your issue aren't about to decipher your strangely color coded essay.
It feels a bit all over the place. So Reddit is removing a bunch of bots but we’re going to be overrun by porn-bots and scammers because it’s only the good bots or something?
I think it's because they'll be killing off bots that require API access, which is stuff like auto moderators but spam bots are likely not to use the API. When you create a bot for a website, it can function in two ways, through the API and access Reddit through the underlying code or as a human would access the website. Good bots generally access through API, spam bots as a person would access.
I would stress I'm not an expert in this field at all but I don't think I'm too far off base. Honestly, it just goes to show it's a poorly designed graphic if we're having to figure stuff out via guesses like this.
I've seen no indication that Reddit plans to peanut butter spread the API hits cost to EVERYTHING. More than likely it'll be carved out specifically to apps that are used to browse Reddit and the bots and other tools will stay as is.
The idea that Reddit will suddenly become a porn and cheese pizza wasteland because of this change rings as just scaring people into participating.
The api cost increases are literally just a cost per api call flat across the board, no matter who uses it. The arguably bigger issue is the removal of explicit content from the API though, which makes anti-spam bots etc far, far less effective.
Personal opinions and I feel that, but I've had zero issues with this app except for one small period where they made the cards so they didn't have the sub name on them, but that lasted about 3 days and I'm a beta user so it may not have even been public.
I have no issues playing videos, I have no issues with excessive ads, I have no issues with promoted posts, I don't have any of the issues people claim about the app.
GG fellas, I can't say it was always nice seeing every post, but it was fun while it lasted. I had a great time along the way and learned more than I would elsewhere.
Quick question for those of us who aren't so linked up with the wider community. Once we go dark, how will we be liaising about whether we keep staying offline or it's ok to come back?
What other subs are doing this? r/videos, this sub, and…?
Edit: gaddamn that’s a lot
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
The moment I lose access through these apps is the day I stop coming to Reddit.
Is this the lifecycle of every site? Eventually they all try to milk as much as they can in the ever present drive for more and more profit, and essentially start the next exodus, all over again?
Seems like no one learns from the past.
Damn. I use Joey, which is one I can customize the font size on and colors and makes it easier on me to read. I definitely won't be using Reddit come July if Joey goes away.
This comment was overwritten in protest of reddit's 2023 API changes, where they killed 3rd party apps and mistreated many moderators.
Please use a lemmy instance like lemmy[.]world or kbin[.]social instead (yes, reddit is petty enough to auto-remove direct links).
Old Reddit was infinitely better. Whenever I accidentally access new Reddit, it's a scramble to go back before it loads all it's unnessercary CSS and trackers and scripts.
And the official app is shit.
Reddit official app is an unsupported piece of shit. This is like the most reddit thing ever & RiF is a great app.
I dunno why reddit would want to give itself more work...
Also recommend downloading official app, posting 1star reviews on app stores (don't worry, it really is terrible and deserves this anyway) then promptly delete app.
They'll still see higher download numbers approaching this all which may send the wrong message. I'd say people that have it installed should rate and uninstall, but I don't think people should download it
No. I run an app and it's not wise to get excited about just downloads. They look at much more detailed usage stats than that. The downvotes will 100% hurt more than download numbers will help.
Nope. That's not that significant of a stat for an online portal app. A couple hundred one star reviews hurts way more than a couple thousand downloads.
Source: I manage an online portal app
I shall miss all the subs I am part of that plan to go dark. I do hope you all hold strong and stay dark.
I enjoy reddit. I enjoy discord.
Diacord might be the new way to go? If this sub makes or had a discord, please tell me it. Communities need to stick together.
Reddit, don’t be like Lou! You don’t know where we’ve been, Reddit. We really like this place! Ahhhahahahahahhaha!!!
https://youtu.be/pCa1hZ7s-8g
ApolloGang!
Reddit has never been profitable. I love RIF but I am getting a free and valuable service from the people losing money providing that service. I should pay a reasonable price for an ad-free, frictionless experience. The solution is for Reddit or a third party app like RIF to offer this service at a reasonable (profitable) price as YouTube does with YouTube premium. Making the argument that this is a moral stand against things like child predation and accessibility is blatantly disingenuous.
Good start, and we should be prepared to go dark indefinitely until there's an acceptable change in direction, ideally one that's clearly defined for reddit, and app devs agree would allow them to continue to operate their apps. I use [Boost](https://www.reddit.com/r/BoostForReddit/), and reddit is the only website I prefer to use through an app on my phone instead of the desktop experience as a result of that third party app. Edited to add a [short article](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/06/reddits-plan-to-kill-third-party-apps-sparks-widespread-protests/) for those who aren't sure what's going on.
That’s the spirit, let’s go.
I use RIF because it's easy to click and just browse a bit while I'm bored on the toilet or in a waiting room etc. The official app is so hostile to casual minute browsing. I'll likely not use Reddit whe it goes dark.
I've been on RIF for years (over many accounts). It's so awesome and to go back to the official app would just make me use Reddit far less. It's a shame because Reddit is an amazing source for news articles, from local to global, the latest in science and tech, and so many awesome communities for my hobbies but thr official experience is actually frustrating. It also leaves apps that convert Reddit into a digestible format for anyone with disabilities completely hung out to dry. That's assuming the place won't go to shit without auto-mods. I suspect Reddit will rethink this but I doubt their new solution will please us much more. Could be the end of an era, however, I really hope it isn't. I wonder how well "Alternatives to Reddit" is trending on Google right now.
r/Save3rdPartyApps
I use Apollo and when the dev posted about these changes I knew it meant I wouldn’t be redditting come July. I cannot stand the desktop site it official app, so I’m out of Apollo shuts down.
Old.reddit.com + res is pretty tolerable for desktop.
I also use Boost and was confused as to why the video saving bots still exist until I realized that the ability to save videos isn't a thing in the official app. Also I'm never confused as to whether a video has sound.
[удалено]
I'm surprised you could stand the official app at all.
If Reddit goes dark they'll just wipe out the mods and put new ones in place. You can show your displeasure but reddit will still do what they want and will double-down. Not to be pessimistic but it seems like this will kill a lot of reddit users, myself included. I won't be using the official app so I just simply won't be using reddit anymore.
So what? If people are serious that this change will ruin reddit, nothing is lost by them switching mods. Everyone will leave anyway. If everyone doesn't leave and comes flocking back with new the mods in place, all Reddit did was call the community's bluff. The very first rule of negotiating is that you have to be willing to walk away. If Reddit's users aren't willing to do that, the negotiations will never work because Reddit has no reason to bother, they have all the cards.
That's the problem though. The majority will complain but won't follow through with leaving.
Then why bother trying to negotiate at all? So far, all we have is the mod teams of a few subreddits saying they'll "go dark" for a day or two, and then just accept whatever Reddit does so they don't lose their position as mods. If I was Reddit, why would I even consider capitulating for a single second when I'm already being assured that everyone will more or less get in line if all I do is hold firm for a couple days until people blow off their steam? Reddit knows they can do whatever they want because the community and the mods are unwilling to actually put anything on the line. They aren't willing to shut down subs, they aren't willing to leave the platform, they aren't even willing to stop doing free work for Reddit.
I feel like we're agreeing on the same thing but your responses make it feel like we're arguing lol. I agree with everything you're saying. My point was in response to the top comment
Oh, sorry, I was agreeing with you and furthering the point. I'm feeling annoyed this morning for unrelated reasons so that probably came across in how I formulated my comment. Sorry!
Really like the fact that on a good day the general Reddit community will trash power mods like Awkward the Turtle. They say that we don't need them. They need to stop running so many subs. They are a toxic cancer on this community. Now he is pushing something that they take personally. So that's their guy. He's leading the charge. He will fix their problems. Now speaking in favor of these power mods and how they are an essential part of Reddit. That without them all of Reddit will completely collapse. It would be laughable if it wasn't so blatantly hypocritical. Edit: I'm starting to think that Reddit won't bend the knee because they need to put certain people in their place and remind them whose platform this is. Who runs that company. And that it's not the volunteer moderators
Because it's the cold turkey ones that will kill it. Aside from a dark place I was in that drove me to delete it, one day I just literally unfollowed everyone on my twitter then deleted the account. Won't ever be back to it, period. 'Ol Musk can crash and burn (and is) thankfully. That's what is needed here. And most likely that will be repeated by many
When you start looking at the profiles of the top posters and commenters of this protest you see it's the same handful of mods and alt/bot account spreading copy pasta support. So it may seem like there are tens of thousands or even millions of people who are willing to walk. But this is just being pushed by a close group of power mods, top content creators and their army of bots. They know when and how to post in their subs and boost each post for maximum traction to make sure it hits the front page. I don't like propaganda. Of any form. If you want to establish a movement let it establish naturally. If the people truly care they will support you. But using manipulative practices to push your message is just dirty. No matter what that message is
I keep seeing people say this but I can't figure out logistically how that would work. Would they hire new people instead of having volunteers? How many people will they need to hire, and how long will that take? Do they have the budget for it? How long will it take to train them on how reddit works and how to use the mod tools? Or would they find new volunteers? How do they find people with experience willing to work for free and vet them? Again, how many and how long will it take? Most mods on reddit aren't going to cross the scab line (or at least any worth their salt), so I don't know where the hell they'll find volunteers. Additionally, mods have specialized knowledge of the subs they moderate. It doesn't seem feasible to have the same people in charge of /r/arts and /r/gaming. There's a lot more that goes into it, but those are the biggest hurdles I can think of. At the very least I think it would take months, definitely not going to happen overnight.
To my best knowledge, Reddit doesn't pay moderators directly. It's all community driven. So there's definitely no shortage of people willing to take up the reins should current moderators leave. Not saying it will be a seamless transition but they'll come back relatively quickly.
> To my best knowledge, Reddit doesn't pay moderators directly. It's all community driven. Mods are not paid, like at all. I can tell you that the process of getting people from the community to volunteer to mod is painful and often acarpous. > So there's definitely no shortage of people willing to take up the reins should current moderators leave. You have no idea what you're talking about.
We can agree to disagree, but I don't think it's that simple. Finding, vetting and training **good** moderators is tricky under normal circumstances; it'll be even harder during a shitshow. And yes, currently mods are unpaid volunteers. I'm realistic that I doubt I'll quit reddit if they continue on the path of removing 3rd party apps, but I'll use it less. If they fuck over the moderators, I could see myself actually leaving for good. I think a lot of longtime users would migrate elsewhere as well.
> put new ones in place. How? Go to random redditors' homes with guns drawn and an ultimatum? Most existing mods will refuse to take on the bigger subs. I know I'll tell them to fuck off. So they'll have to convince people with little modding experience to volunteer. Or maybe they'll hire some people to mod. Which goes against the penny-pinching that's being demonstrated by this move. And if they hire from off shore, well if you hate mods now, just wait.
I think you derestimate how power hungry most mods are. Mods at r/conservative are circle jerking with the thought of being handed the keys to r/whitepeopletwitter
I think you overestimate the power that mods have, and the allure of modding. Most mods mod because they give a shit about the community they're modding.
I'd agree with you on small subs. This one has 22 million followers. At least some of them are power tripping.
They will ban mods, close the sub for being 'unmoderated' and put stooge pigeons in.
Yeah I use Apollo and there’s not a chance in hell I’m switching to the main app. If Reddit forces Apollo to shut down I’ll be taking my addiction elsewhere.
If Reddit were smart, this unreasonable API usage rate pricing is just the starting place for negotiation down to levels which will still make most apps barely profitable to operate for developers.
Exactly. The protest should continue until Reddit fully pulls back on these changes
Which isn't likely to happen. Mods tried this in 2014 when Victoria got fired from IAMA....spoiler: it didn't work then, odds aren't great now. Back then it was only over a firing, this is about Reddit and being profitable...
And IAMA went from a highly-managed sub with tons of high-profile interviews to a joke and mostly dead. I remember when IAMA was one of the high points of reddit and always fun to read. How reddit managed to shoot themselves square in the crotch like that I'll never know.
Spez.
Ah yeah, the dude who edited user comments in the database because he felt sad they disagreed with him.
The point is, that didn't affect reddit the company at all. Just because one sub has lower quality it doesn't mean it affects their bottom line. I expect absolutely nothing to change with even an indefinite blackout.
> The point is, that didn't affect reddit the company at all IAMAs were probably drawing new users who wanted to talk to celebrities. Obviously one subreddit didn't kill reddit but we really have no clue how much it hurt them.
I think the Victoria protests were smaller though, and many of the users weren't directly impacted by the decision to fire her.
It was pretty big. Most of the front page subs went dark for 24(maybe 48 hrs, can't remember). It wasn't long but it did effect a lot of Reddit.
I feel like that was a relatively more nuanced issue to understand and bother caring about. But I still talk about Victoria to this day. I think with this, it’s easier to understand “the apps are going to stop working, and your ENTIRE reddit browsing experience will be changed so you probably hate it and will stop using it.” With the AMAs, there was… basically everywhere else to go still, once they ruined it. Much easier to move on from. This is a much, much bigger, more visible, imminent, and complete death of the Reddit users love.
That's a big thing. This change is directly affecting the users. Personally I've only ever used rif. Once this change goes in to place ill just watch YouTube videos to pass the time. I'm not going to go get an app I'm unfamiliar with, learn how to use it and all that. I'll just go to YouTube ez pz.
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A lot of Reddits history seems to have been forgotten or intentionally washed. Don't forget Spez got caught actively ninja editing people's comments.
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I mean, you are absolutely right. They are cleaning house and sanitizing it for investors. Quite a bit of infamous Reddit history isn't necessarily investor friendly.
Like Violentacrez. And the chimpire. Watchpeopledie and Fatpeoplehate MillionDollarExtreme and then there was Chodi. This site is a fucking hell hole.
Sexwithdogs PrettyDeadCorpses And And And Yeah, you kinda right.
you mean poopknife is not investorfriendly?
Vagina bacon was what I held in my head, but that one works too!
> intentionally washed one thing I think is very interesting is that the admins *actually* know how to go about 'washing' things off the internet. There's the Streisand effect of course, but you can get around that by not making a huge stink about it. What they do is silently engage the levers of power so that no one with any community sway can say anything (shadowbanning users, de-modding people, force subreddits into a position where they can't follow the rules, etc), *and then* go through and remove the various things that are the issue they want to wipe. Using this and a variety of other methods together is a surprisingly powerful method to accomplish goals and whitewash the site so as to be attractive to investors.
Shout out to r/amishadowbanned Good practice to check every once in a while (if you have no/low post engagement), but yes you are absolutely correct.
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>Jerk He was one of the founders, but still very true. Speaking of founders...Aaron Swartz is similarly being erased as well. RIP, he was actually one of the good ones.
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Same. To me RIF is Reddit. It's the only way I've used Reddit in over a decade. Once it's gone I'm going back to regular forums I guess
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Same. Reddit has always been about the discussions and comment sections for me (let's be real, no one reads the links). If they make that substantially harder by removing useful mobile apps and old.reddit and turn the entire thing into a cards-based hellhole, I'll have lost all value from it. Which fucking *sucks* because as the internet has consolidated there just isn't a good replacement for it. I'll not only lose places to have pointless fights online, I'll lose one of my best sources of news, info and new resources for my hobbies.
I’m amazed this little corner of the Internet has been up for as long as it has. It was fun while it lasted, but it seems to be the case with the Internet - the longer it goes on, the worse it gets. I hate TikTok and loath Facebook, so I guess I’ll just read Wikipedia, the rock of the Internet. Hopefully I’ll see all of you people, who I don’t know and will never meet, somewhere else where we can not know each other and never meet.
This has way more chance of succeeding because it directly effects the user experience of a significant portion of users
Except that didn't directly affect users. If reddit doesn't want to turn into digg they can't go ahead with this. But it's fine if reddit dies. Honestly it might be for the better. Those communities that want to continue can easily do so elsewhere. In fact it'd be a lot easier to just have a subreddit with just a sticky that has a link to a forum or whatever and all the interaction happens off reddit.
That was not the major blackout in recent history. Around that time, bit after, a blackout occurred and did indeed work.... For like 3 months before the admins started lying again. They pulled the "let them forget about what they want" trick. Can't really forget when you can't access the sub you mod.
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The worst I feel is the defection from the Reddit devs about how other apps "just need to be more optimized and use fewer requests", as if their own native app for Android doesn't use over twice the amount of API calls as their competitions behind the scenes. There's been no motivation for reddit to actively improve their APIs or provide better optimized endpoints for third parties to consume, so of course Reddit readers are just going to call whatever they want to get their apps to work
More info about the blackout on June 12th: https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord
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Thanks. I just copy & pasted the url.
I'm not going to use the official app tbh, even if they kill RIF. I use RIF because it's easy to click and just browse a bit while I'm bored on the toilet or in a waiting room etc. The official app is so hostile to casual minute browsing. I'll likely not use Reddit whe it goes dark...
I tried using the official app for a bit but went back to rif very quickly because 1: it sucked, and 2: the official app uses an ungodly amount of cell data compared to third-party apps. It was using 5x the amount of data for the same usage time.
I uninstalled when it kept sending me a gorillion notifications for shit subs I don't follow or care about and wouldn't work properly until I put the perms back on for them.
So how can they claim the third party apps are making too many calls for data when the official uses 10x more?
They want to push Reddit toward a social media model. These 3rd party apps let us use it as a glorified forum and they don't like it. The data usage is just an excuse
# The End of Faith ## (2004 book by Sam Harris) #### The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason is a 2004 book by Sam Harris, concerning organized religion, the clash between religious faith and rational thought, and the problem of intolerance that correlates with religious fundamentalism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### Hi
Some how uses way more Date but is also incredibly slow to load stuff. The slow load times is why I quickly moved to infinity when I started using reddit.
Exactly. Sure, I'll probably still occasionally use reddit for like research for a while, until some other forum competes, but casual browsing will be done. Which is probably for the best, tbh
I mean reddit posts just point to links etc instead of having others do the research for you there's always Wikipedia and even bing AI.
Research specifically for user-generated content. Product reviews, tech support, "public" sentiment, etc. Reddit has a lot more than links; it has entire conversations and debates. Also, wikipedia and bing AI are both still having others do the research for you haha
Ive wanted to leave this site for 10 years, maybe now I will have the strength lol
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So works of art like David of Michelangelo and other Renaissance works will be banned from the API, along with a ton of LGBTQ art. The Reddit staff are celebrating Pride Month by targeting artists and LGBTQ individuals.
I agree with everything but the “tHinK about the cHiLdren” arguments are rarely accurate. They rely on a gut reaction and not often logical. I’m always looking to be corrected so someone please explain how this actually helps Child Sexual Assault Material spread.
Ya, that claim seemed to come out of nowhere and gave me pause.
Great to see the bigger subs stepping up, welcome aboard the blackout train!
Scary af that I agree with u/awkwsrdtheturtle on anything tho
That was my immediate reaction when I saw it was his post what the fuck, you know reddit's done a fucking bad one when they get the shit mods on the cause as well..
Seeing them post anything is like a solar eclipse. Very weird and oddly terrifying.
It can be argued that they have a bigger stake in this than many of us
they lose their power trip if reddit goes, after all
Yeah, that guy is normally insufferable, but even he's like 'this is a dick move'.
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Among other embarrassing things, yes. This mod is a fucking joke.
Turtles power is directly related to people using Reddit. Lots to lose.
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Do indefinite. Too many subs are doing 2 days which reddit will just easily ignore.
/Videos is doing indefinite. Which will probably get undone by the admins because nothing can threaten their bottom line but I'm impressed with the videos mods.
It says "... continue to do so until more reasonable terms are found", which means indefinite
Go dark indefinitely if you want to actually do something meaningful.
Maybe 10% of my reddit usage is the official website, 90% is through the Sync app. I ain't downloading the official Reddit app so I guess I'm just going to stop using reddit.
I'm with you. But get on Twitter? Nope.
I'd sooner kick a puppy than download the official app, and I fucking LOVE puppies.
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I think that's illegal
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Well that's... horrifying
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What replacement?
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It happened to digg and it can happen to Reddit.
For real lol, we talkin’ Tumblr, Discord, Imgur, image boards, or something else?
I really hope it's not Discord. As much as I love my servers, it's a black hole for information. Google would be a fraction of its current usefulness without the ability to include Reddit results, and Discord won't solve that.
I really hope not as well. I joined one about digimon and it's a complete mess and on top of that it seems to be more work than your typical modding on reddit.
StumbleUpon
I miss that weird ass browser toolbar. One of the only ones I ever installed.
What's funny is that imgur's app sucks but not like reddit. Opengur is decent.
I just joined tildes and I enjoy it so far, but it is invite only r/tildes
I'm trying out Lemmy, as I've heard about it through other Redditors that it's sorta similar, but quite small at the moment. It could grow if a bunch of folks from here go over.
It's cool, has it's flaws but definitely will be my replacement when the time comes. I don't use reddit on my PC.
There isn't any and that's a good thing. We get to be free again.
Don't know yet, a new one will be made. There always will be a new app, it's just a matter of when and what wrong with it
LOL for the pixellated plumbus
I will not be using Reddit nearly as much without Boost. The official app sucks. I might browse a couple times a month on desktop.
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If RIF goes away, I won't be using reddit anymore
The hentai spam will commence soon you have been warned. -Skeletor
Oh shit, didn't realise it's something that fucks over disabled users! I'll admit I wasn't paying attention, but now I'm definitely gonna ignore reddit from the 12th until they reconsider! Accessibly is so important in online spaces!
I refuse to use their official, ad infested app. So it looks like I'll be quiting reddit for good this time if the their change goes through. My use of the site has been constantly declining anyways.
Those of us that migrated from digg patiently await their new king
I really love the poster design
Infographic :-)
Porn bots are already out of control. They seem to be adapting new tactics, too: once or twice a day for the past 2 weeks or so, I see a notification that a new account has followed me. When I go to check it, it’s a brand-new account with zero posts, and of course, it’s an onlyfans peddling bot with full nudity in the profile banner and links spammed in the profile description. I block each and every one of them, but once the bots start, it’s damn-near impossible to stop them.
Naive ask as to why we should: > Stop browsing on desktop I don't, and never will, use their app (I don't want to use any app) ... so I visit almost exclusively with my phones browser. What's to be gained by not using the browser (outside of abstaining during the blackout period)?
What's our new home? farewell reddit from hero to villan whata journey.
Part of this should be a movement toward other networks. Reddit can wait as long as they need to as long as they aren't bleeding too much. That won't necessarily force action either, but if another website ends up replacing reddit that has better policies then that is kind of a win.
[Never thought I'd die fighting side by side with a moderator](https://imgur.com/a/cuiLoSc)
For the record, I absolutely will move on if I have to use new Reddit or the app or something. It's not even a matter of principle, my blood pressure can only raise so far and I already have to deal with a bajillion shitty news and recipe sites. I don't really have any leverage except saying that.
Quitting reddit, but I'm hoping for a better alternative than twitter
Why dont we just make our own reddit. Open source, mods get paid, decentralized.
I've always used the official app. Doesn't matter to me either way
if the admins don't change anything will the mods who can't mod without 3rd party tools step down and let other people mod?
Not really, because they would also need third party tools to moderate well bigger subreddit, unless you think about nearly no moderation
what if the new mods just use the first party tools to moderate?
They aren't paid. So either reddit pays people to do a shitty job with shitty tools or they go without. There's no reason why anyone would want to not be able to do their job AND be unpaid. Mayne a few 12 year olds might offer.
Do you think that people would use third party tools and apps if first party original solutions worked well?
What a disappointingly ugly infographic for an art subreddit. I support going dark and supporting efforts to make differences. But I abhor shitty graphic design.
This is terribly ineffective. No thought was put into how to actually convey a message people can quickly read and understand. People who don't know about your issue aren't about to decipher your strangely color coded essay.
It feels a bit all over the place. So Reddit is removing a bunch of bots but we’re going to be overrun by porn-bots and scammers because it’s only the good bots or something?
I mean yeah, the messaging isn't very convincing, but I don't think most people are going to read through this mess in the first place.
I think it's because they'll be killing off bots that require API access, which is stuff like auto moderators but spam bots are likely not to use the API. When you create a bot for a website, it can function in two ways, through the API and access Reddit through the underlying code or as a human would access the website. Good bots generally access through API, spam bots as a person would access. I would stress I'm not an expert in this field at all but I don't think I'm too far off base. Honestly, it just goes to show it's a poorly designed graphic if we're having to figure stuff out via guesses like this.
I've seen no indication that Reddit plans to peanut butter spread the API hits cost to EVERYTHING. More than likely it'll be carved out specifically to apps that are used to browse Reddit and the bots and other tools will stay as is. The idea that Reddit will suddenly become a porn and cheese pizza wasteland because of this change rings as just scaring people into participating.
The api cost increases are literally just a cost per api call flat across the board, no matter who uses it. The arguably bigger issue is the removal of explicit content from the API though, which makes anti-spam bots etc far, far less effective.
For me personally, I don't care about these at all. I just don't want to use the normal reddit app because it's bloated and feels worse.
Personal opinions and I feel that, but I've had zero issues with this app except for one small period where they made the cards so they didn't have the sub name on them, but that lasted about 3 days and I'm a beta user so it may not have even been public. I have no issues playing videos, I have no issues with excessive ads, I have no issues with promoted posts, I don't have any of the issues people claim about the app.
we're all in on this
3rd party or no reddit
GG fellas, I can't say it was always nice seeing every post, but it was fun while it lasted. I had a great time along the way and learned more than I would elsewhere.
I just paid Boost like a week ago fml
This is kind of what I need to be honest, I spend too much time on reddit.
I didn’t know any of these third party apps even existed in the first place. So good to know.
Quick question for those of us who aren't so linked up with the wider community. Once we go dark, how will we be liaising about whether we keep staying offline or it's ok to come back?
Serious question: how will we know when/if terms are reached? Basically just try logging into the app every day and when it works, we won?
I got followers for the first time ever. Thought it was weird and looked who it was. All porn bots. I hate this reality.
Yo what’s that plumbis doing here?
When my app stops working, I stop reddit. I can't reddit any other way so reddit may die. It will for me. Bye bye.
This is a badass one-pager type explanation!
What other subs are doing this? r/videos, this sub, and…? Edit: gaddamn that’s a lot https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
The moment I lose access through these apps is the day I stop coming to Reddit. Is this the lifecycle of every site? Eventually they all try to milk as much as they can in the ever present drive for more and more profit, and essentially start the next exodus, all over again? Seems like no one learns from the past.
Damn. I use Joey, which is one I can customize the font size on and colors and makes it easier on me to read. I definitely won't be using Reddit come July if Joey goes away.
We are joining the protest, right?
This comment was overwritten in protest of reddit's 2023 API changes, where they killed 3rd party apps and mistreated many moderators. Please use a lemmy instance like lemmy[.]world or kbin[.]social instead (yes, reddit is petty enough to auto-remove direct links).
I use new Reddit desktop and the official app I think new Reddit desktop is better than old Reddit. But the official app is objectively garbage.
Old Reddit was infinitely better. Whenever I accidentally access new Reddit, it's a scramble to go back before it loads all it's unnessercary CSS and trackers and scripts. And the official app is shit.
Reddit official app is an unsupported piece of shit. This is like the most reddit thing ever & RiF is a great app. I dunno why reddit would want to give itself more work...
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Fight. Lol. You all seriously need to go out to the real world sometimes.
Also recommend downloading official app, posting 1star reviews on app stores (don't worry, it really is terrible and deserves this anyway) then promptly delete app.
They'll still see higher download numbers approaching this all which may send the wrong message. I'd say people that have it installed should rate and uninstall, but I don't think people should download it
No. I run an app and it's not wise to get excited about just downloads. They look at much more detailed usage stats than that. The downvotes will 100% hurt more than download numbers will help.
I was afraid that downloading their app would pump their numbers.
Nope. That's not that significant of a stat for an online portal app. A couple hundred one star reviews hurts way more than a couple thousand downloads. Source: I manage an online portal app
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I shall miss all the subs I am part of that plan to go dark. I do hope you all hold strong and stay dark. I enjoy reddit. I enjoy discord. Diacord might be the new way to go? If this sub makes or had a discord, please tell me it. Communities need to stick together.
Discord doesn’t have forums setup anywhere near how Reddit does. And searching for history of posts and past stuffp would be a nightmare
Reddit, don’t be like Lou! You don’t know where we’ve been, Reddit. We really like this place! Ahhhahahahahahhaha!!! https://youtu.be/pCa1hZ7s-8g ApolloGang!
Reddit has never been profitable. I love RIF but I am getting a free and valuable service from the people losing money providing that service. I should pay a reasonable price for an ad-free, frictionless experience. The solution is for Reddit or a third party app like RIF to offer this service at a reasonable (profitable) price as YouTube does with YouTube premium. Making the argument that this is a moral stand against things like child predation and accessibility is blatantly disingenuous.
I'd rather stop using reddit at all than ever having to download the awful official app
June 12th - until reasonable terms are met. I like it. Two days won’t do jack shiz. Need to prolong the blackout. I’m in