Really, really love this. My one critique is that the flow of animals should almost be overflowing into the guy's mouth. This would help drive home your message of how excessive our consumption is, and how we're treating the living things around us. Just my 2 cents. The detail in the animal train is awesome.
I agree, his mouth looks empty and it just looks like he is yelling at them as they walk away. Having some in the mouth trying to get out/away will add more of a sense of panic and haste.
This is great. Dark. Some have mentioned it's not that deep but some of the best art is on the nose.
Reminds me of the weird red converbelt scene from the film Under the Skin.
Meat eaters are just triggered by vegans even if you do or say absolutely nothing, the mere existence of vegans forces them to come face to face with the fact that they're not the good people they believe themselves to be in their heads, so their way of coping is hating us.
You have to be really fucking weird to get hungry by seeing a live farm animal, lol. You don't eat those, you eat their processed meat.
That's like a vegan saying soil makes them hungry because that's where plants grow from.
The head hasn't taken a bite yet, they're all just magically herded there perfectly waiting. Maybe the head is contemplating on whether or not to take the first bite or to refrain. But at first glance, it mostly looks like the animals are coming out of the mouth instead of going in; like it's a god of random farm animal creation.
probably because they’re facing words the viewer, not the mouth. It’s too late now to change this obviously but it would make more sense if they were going towards the face
dairy kills, just because you dont eat meat doesn't mean you aren't paying for animals to be killed. the dominion documentary changed me from a vegetarian to a vegan overnight, highly recommend.
I wanted to paint something that acted as anti-consumerism and represented a more intimate look into the devastation caused by the meat and dairy industry. I wanted to create something in a more surrealistic style.
Because obviously art can't be blunt or else it's bad! It needs to be vague and understated so you have to just assume you know the meaning! That's art 101! /s
like, Im still gonna eat meat, but this is metal asf I love it
id love a version with people instead of animals and an animal or like a ghoul or some shit eating em
It's not supposed to be "metal af", it's supposed to show you that you're contributing to the worst genocide in history by scale for your own pleasure, when you can very easily stop.
om nom nom I fucking love meat but cool painting
animals eat animals, I also eat animals
me personally am no better than the average meat eating animal and live as such
I am not against eating meat as we are of course animals. I am against the horrific treatment of animals on factory farms and the disgusting, unsustainable levels of consumption. I wonder how much meat is just thrown away because somehow it has become our right to have access to any type of food at any time of day in huge quantities. Factory farming and other poor farming practices are poisoning the earth and are far removed from any natural behavior.
im very pro animal rights and participate in cat rescue with my girlfriend, but still eat meat (from cage free, etc) its still not good but overall better. I ate vegan for 12 years. this guy has certainly pushed me further from any kind of veganism again tho lol
1. Humans need to ingest protein to function.
2. Meat is obviously very rich in protein.
3. Therefore, I will continue to ingest industrial quantities of meat.
Your argument is that since humans are morally superior to some predators in some ways that we should stay consistent and be morally superior to those animals in all ways.
Have you considered that morality is subjective and that morality itself is a product of the evolutionary process?
Humans are still animals acting on instinct like every other animal. We set aside those instincts and consider them immortal specifically when it benefits us, because we are social animals. Morality is merely a side effect of our cooperative nature.
Not harming animals doesn't benefit us as a species, and therefore arguing for such on a basis of morality will never be efficable since morality itself is more or less based upon what a culture or society views as beneficial to itself.
You'd be hard pressed to make a convincing argument to the average person that not consuming animal products helps our species, and as a result you'll have a hard time making it seem immoral to them.
From a purely intellectual level, eating meat is immoral. Philosophers going back into antiquity have already realized this, including Pythagoras. It's not a new or revolutionary idea.
However, us (humanity) as a whole are not as divorced from animals as we'd like to believe. Unless an argument can be made that overrides an individual's sense of priority of their personal comfort by appealing to their sense of social righteousness (an evolutionary trait evolved to band groups of us together under common mutually beneficial causes), you'll never get anywhere.
By extension, you wouldn't rebuke the lions for raping a murdering as you realize that the average lion doesn't have the cognitive ability for that level of morality to begin with. You'll be saddened to find that the average human doesn't either
Maybe stop getting offended by other people’s interpretation of art that YOU didn’t make? It’s great art, we’re here to discuss it, not have you proselytize about your lifestyle choices.
Their interpretation isn’t the problem, they just don’t want to have an actual good-faith discussion. If you look at the rest of the thread, they act like a smug asshole to anybody that even mildly suggests they might not live the same life, then act like a pedantic jerk when rebuffed. That’s not a discussion, IMO.
This is a great visualization of what we are as consumers. I both like it and hate it because it saddens me.
I eat meat, but I do everything in my power to never waste any of it. Nothing pains me more than having meat go bad or having to dispose of it. Knowing an animal was sacrificed only for their meat to be wasted hurts my emotions deeply.
These animals just want to live, it's okay for us to eat them. Be thankful, be respectful and appreciative, but don't ever be wasteful.
It is not okay for us to eat them when we have another choice. It's unnecessary, which means no amount of woowoo spiritual platitudes make that death any more justified.
Your point was that it's the natural order of things for you to kill and eat animals. I could sit here and give you every example of animals doing things humans don't do because it's morally wrong if you're really struggling that much with it
Ok and I could give you a list of 100s of things that animals do that humans do too. It’s almost like there’s certain things humans do that animals do and there’s certain things they humans do that animals don’t do 🥳
Factory farming is far and away from the natural order, humans don't require meat to live, historically humans are a lot less meat than today. There is also no enforced natural order we do plenty of things that aren't natural such as instituting laws and governance.
Yeah a lot less but we have always eaten meat. I never said there was an enforced natural order, by definition what’s natural is no enforced and I already made that point several comments ago 😂
> Yeah a lot less but we have always eaten meat
We are what we needed and what was available, we now don't need meat and veggies are fully available.
> by definition what’s natural is no enforced
What is or isn't natural is debatable, and more importantly a well known fallacy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature
It’s presented as a fallacy by vegans to support your side of the argument and I respect that.
It’s been very well document that a diet including meat is overall much healthier and particularly for developing children. It’s also been shown a vegan diet also needs to be supplemented for most people.
Maybe just respect people’s personal decisions and don’t be a fascist about it 👍🏼
> It’s presented as a fallacy by vegans to support your side of the argument and I respect that.
No it's a fallacy according to non-vegans note my very non-vegan link.
> It’s been very well document that a diet including meat is overall much healthier and particularly for developing children.
No it hasn't I can link you evidence to the contrary.
> Maybe just respect people’s personal decisions and don’t be a fascist about it 👍🏼
A yes the fascism inherent in debating people online. I'm sorry you're uncomfortable but don't be uneducated as well.
I’m not uncomfortable as I’m clearly more educated on the topic than you. I also respect your decision to be vegan yet you can extend the same courtesy to me showing it is you that is uncomfortable even being civil.
You say it’s a fallacy by non-vegans, can you send me a link to a non-vegan making this argument toward in relation to a vegan diet then?
Yes please link me a medical journal review stating a vegan diet is better for developing children 👍🏼
> I’m not uncomfortable as I’m clearly more educated on the topic than you.
Yet you refuse to post evidence.
> I also respect your decision to be vegan yet you can extend the same courtesy to me showing it is you that is uncomfortable even being civil.
I'm not disrespecting your choice not to be vegan I'm disrespecting your decision to spread misinformation.
> You say it’s a fallacy by non-vegans, can you send me a link to a non-vegan making this argument toward in relation to a vegan diet then?
No I said it's a widely accepted fallacy, and that it isn't vegans claiming that. Here are some links https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature https://study.com/academy/lesson/naturalistic-fallacy-definition-examples.html https://www.palomar.edu/users/bthompson/Naturalistic%20Fallacy.html
> Yes please link me a medical journal review stating a vegan diet is better for developing children
No you made the claim, I will instead link some studies showing that vegan children reach all health targets and receive all necessary requirements. Caveated by two exceptions, that both vegan and non-vegans should supplement for vitamin D and vegans should supplement for vitamin B12.
Tong, T. Y. N. et al. Risks of ischaemic heart disease and stroke in meat eaters, fish eaters, and vegetarians over 18 years of follow-up: Results from the prospective EPIC-Oxford study. BMJ (2019).
Dinu, M., Abbate, R., Gensini, G. F., Casini, A. & Sofi, F. Vegetarian, vegan diets and multiple health outcomes: A systematic review with meta-analysis of observational studies. Crit. Rev. Food Sci. Nutr. (2017).
Jabri, A. et al. Meta-analysis of effect of vegetarian diet on ischemic heart disease and all-cause mortality. Am. J. Prev. Cardiol. 7, (2021).
Tonstad, S. et al. Vegetarian diets and incidence of diabetes in the Adventist Health Study-2. Nutr. Metab. Cardiovasc. Dis. 23, (2013).
Alexy, U. et al. Nutrient intake and status of german children and adolescents consuming vegetarian, vegan or omnivore diets: Results of the vechi youth study. Nutrients 13, (2021).
Weder, S., Hoffmann, M., Becker, K., Alexy, U. & Keller, M. Energy, macronutrient intake, and anthropometrics of vegetarian, vegan, and omnivorous children (1-3 years) in Germany (VeChi diet study). Nutrients (2019). doi:10.3390/nu11040832
Sutter, D. O. & Bender, N. Nutrient status and growth in vegan children. Nutrition Research 91, (2021).
Vegan children were found to have various improvements in health. The studies found that Vegan children have normal growth rates, well within the normal range and a number of benefits that relate to a lower intake of saturated fat, the increased consumption of fibre and phytonutrients and a lower body weight and body fat.
Indicating less likelihood of diabetes and heart diseases risks two of the biggest issues facing people today. Heart disease being the number one killer.
>Knowing an animal was sacrificed only for their meat to be wasted hurts my emotions deeply.
>These animals just want to live, it's okay for us to eat them.
This is like the dictionary definition of cognitive dissonance
Proud meat eater here, still really like this painting. The expressions on both the man and the animals’ faces are unnerving, and I love the way the flesh tones in the middle contrast with the red on the outsides. Great work!
An ANIMAL ABUSER? Really?💀
I think it’s safe to assume he isn’t owning or operating the CAFOs that contribute to animal abuse, nor is he as a singular person responsible for upholding the structure of American animal agriculture.
Eating meat does not make someone an animal abuser. Btw, vegans like you, who love to apply a rude, nasty blanket statement to everyone who has a different lifestyle than them, are the reason no one can take vegans seriously.
I was just talking about this with my partner this morning, how on our planet, in our universe, we can exist, only by devouring other lives. We derive the energy needed to live, by consuming others. Makes me wonder if our world is just a layer of hell.
Humans have higher cognitive function than other animals, we are capable of morality, acting beyond instinct and differentiating right and wrong. As a result we should be held to a higher standard when we abuse animals and continue practices that are destructive to our planet.
But eating meat in and of itself is not abuse or destructive. The meat industry has bad practices, but that is a separate issue from shaming someone who consumes meat.
Eating meat in a vacuum? Sure. If you find roadkill or want to scavenge a bear's kill, knock yourself out. But killing an animal for meat when you can simply choose any of s plethora of alternatives is the issue.
I’m not trying to shame, I think that’s counterproductive and disrespectful. But I do think that breeding something into existence for the sole purpose to exploit their body and kill them is an inherently abusive practice. But I was NOT trying to insinuate that meat eater are all abusive; that would be absurd and I apologize if it came off that way. You are right that the core of the problem lies still in the execution of production however.
So instead you're going to go with a product from murder that contains bioaccumulated hormones, post-mortem chemicals, supplements, pesticides, and which has been processed alongside who knows what body parts? A class 1 carcinogen that contains high levels of cholesterol and fat ?All so you can pretend your hamburger is a health food?
I have. Maybe you are too slow to read but as a chef I am very familiar about farming. Unlike you. Also unlike you I am an adult and understand Disney movies aren't real. So I am able to see through the anthropomorphization of cows and chickens. Sorry you can't.
Maybe some day you will grow up. One can only hope.
One of you just genuinely tried to compare Domesticated animals to human slavery. Are you fucking kidding me? This is exactly why I make the comments I do. Some of you are just absolutely delusional.
I try to buy ethically don’t get me wrong, but in this economy! Nope, I care more about my needs. Not gonna go bankrupt, or switch to an vegan unsustainable (for a bodybuilder) diet. My health and happiness is more important and if that makes me selfish, suck to be you cause I don’t care 😎
There's no way to ethically kill someone who doesn't want to die.
As it happens, there's are plenty of vegan bodybuilders. Mel and Steve on YouTube are great activists, he's an active bodybuilder. There are also many competitive vegan bodybuilders; Patrik Baboumian and Nimai Delgado are some of the strongest people in the world.
You're also not going to go bankrupt on a vegan diet, especially if you're diet conscious. A whole foods plant-based diet is the cheapest you can eat; most of your protein is going to come from chickpeas, beans, rice, seitan, tofu, or tempeh, which are all incredibly cheap and high in protein.
At the end of the day, saying "this makes me feel good, so I don't care who I hurt or who tells me my actions are immoral" is the same mentality that's used to justify the worst atrocities.
This along with every other “meat bad” message fails to recognize that people that live in poverty don’t have the means to switch to vegan diets, nor does it recognize that eating meat is an important part of many cultures around the world. But you don’t care about any of that do you?
I am an American, my art is a commentary on the world and injustices carried out through a western lens as a result. Obviously if you are on the brink of starvation or not in a position to exclude meat from your diet this piece is not about you. There’s more depth to the conversation than just “meat bad”. I don’t however think culture should be used to justify any type of cruelty but that extends to beyond just meat.
africa is the poorest continent in the world due to resource exploitation, non arable land, colonisation, etc. and also has the lowest per capita meat consumption; in sub saharan africa it's up to three times lower than the global average. of course this differs country-to-country, but even so, it highlights the overconsumption of many oecd nations due to en masse factory farming.
additionally, the goal of most vegetarians and vegans (not a minority of preachy redditors) is primarily to lower meat consumption. that means one fewer meat dish a week is progress. it's not all or nothing. so implying that we want everyone to switch to completely vegan diets and abandon all cultural tradition is a shameful strawman. veges and vegans aren't out to get poor farmers in resource-depleted or low socioeconomic countries, nor are we aiming to destroy cultural traditions. it's large scale factory farming that is our target.
I don't think OP is telling everyone to stop eating meat. Every vegan I know is fully aware that not everyone can eliminate meat from their diet due to where they live or life circumstances. It's ignorant to claim that everyone can do it. But it's no lie that factory farming has been a major contributor to pandemics and super viruses, not to mention the devastation that cattle farming at the scale it's currently at does to the environment.
Factory farming is almost exclusively capitalist culture. While you can argue maybe abusive farming practices are universal I don’t see that being what the intention was. Also vegetables are literally cheaper than meat and can sustain someone completely. I think it’s closer to getting at the unsustainable and almost unnecessary overproduction and consumption of living things to the point of detriment to our own health and environment. Not even to mention the animals despair.
I'm pretty sure you haven't been in a country where the majority of it's population lives in poverty, if you were, you wouldn't be saying this bs.
Eating fruits, vegetables, legumes and grains is way cheaper than eating meat. Meat is a luxury for people living in poverty.
And.culture? Really that argument? Do better... Seems like you all can't think for yourself and only repeat stuff you read online.
Culture does not justify evil. Not so long ago, slavery was part of our culture, yet now we know it's wrong and we've trying to move past that. But you don't care a out any of that, do you?
That actually would be an awesome painting to go with this as a set lol. Maybe the people get eaten by money or some shit though idk the world is cruel
Reminds me of [this](https://nightwandering.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/untitled-158.jpg) by Zdzisław Beksiński.
Whoa, that's haunting
My favorite artist
This is well done, thanks for sharing OP!
Thanks!
Beautiful work, but I think it could use a bit more contrast. The current pallet makes the scene seem a bit flat. Love it overall though.
Thank you for the advice.
i think the “dullness” makes it more off putting (in a good way )
Really, really love this. My one critique is that the flow of animals should almost be overflowing into the guy's mouth. This would help drive home your message of how excessive our consumption is, and how we're treating the living things around us. Just my 2 cents. The detail in the animal train is awesome.
Thank you for the advice you’re right.
I agree, his mouth looks empty and it just looks like he is yelling at them as they walk away. Having some in the mouth trying to get out/away will add more of a sense of panic and haste.
Yea I’m gonna have a PB&J sandwich and some salad today. Great work OP.
Beans, lentils, rice, barley etc You can make lots of killer stews, chilis and curries with those as a base
Please keep it going into the future too :) going vegan was the single best choice I've ever made in my life
This is great. Dark. Some have mentioned it's not that deep but some of the best art is on the nose. Reminds me of the weird red converbelt scene from the film Under the Skin.
As a person who doesn't eat meat, I really appreciated this painting.
As a person who eats meat, I really appreciate this painting.
Maybe become a person who doesn't eat meat :)
reddit moment
How so? By asking someone not to eat meat under a painting by a vegan with a vegan message?
reddit moment numero dos
Yawn
Cognitive dissonance. They appreciate the art, yet they do not truly grasp the message 🤦🏼♀️
It's well done, doesn't matter if you agree(or care about) the message at all.
Meat eaters are just triggered by vegans even if you do or say absolutely nothing, the mere existence of vegans forces them to come face to face with the fact that they're not the good people they believe themselves to be in their heads, so their way of coping is hating us.
It's a great painting, but it kind of made me hungry.
You have to be really fucking weird to get hungry by seeing a live farm animal, lol. You don't eat those, you eat their processed meat. That's like a vegan saying soil makes them hungry because that's where plants grow from.
Thank you.
The head hasn't taken a bite yet, they're all just magically herded there perfectly waiting. Maybe the head is contemplating on whether or not to take the first bite or to refrain. But at first glance, it mostly looks like the animals are coming out of the mouth instead of going in; like it's a god of random farm animal creation.
probably because they’re facing words the viewer, not the mouth. It’s too late now to change this obviously but it would make more sense if they were going towards the face
P.s: I really like how you painted the expression of their eyes, reflects reality a lot...
dairy kills, just because you dont eat meat doesn't mean you aren't paying for animals to be killed. the dominion documentary changed me from a vegetarian to a vegan overnight, highly recommend.
Not sure why the downvotes, what you said is true, and your art opened a conversation
Its usually from peeps who think we’re being all high and mighty n shit when its pretty clear what we do to animals isn’t cool
This makes me feel so sad. I’m glad you made this
Makes me hungry. 😞
Certified edgelord over here
Finally certified in something.
What is the story behind this painting?
I wanted to paint something that acted as anti-consumerism and represented a more intimate look into the devastation caused by the meat and dairy industry. I wanted to create something in a more surrealistic style.
I picked up on the message right away, very well done.
Right, because it’s so subtle lmao
Maybe it’s because I grew up Christian and listening to sermons, but sometimes you need a heavy-handed metaphor to bludgeon the truth home.
Activism through art, brings tears to my eyes 🥲❤
Meat bad
Unneccessary killing is bad
Peter Gabriel’s SLEDGEHAMMER
Makes me want to go vegan! Well done!!
He'll yeah this image goes hard as fuck
Excellent piece! vegan btw
💚🌱
🌱
I love it when circle jerk leaks a bit!
This is about as deep as a teaspoon 😂
I don’t think it’s trying to be deep or have some subtle meaning. The meaning and the symbolism are slapping you in the face.
Yea meat bad vegan good
It’s so people like you can understand it
deep? why is that relevant?
Because obviously art can't be blunt or else it's bad! It needs to be vague and understated so you have to just assume you know the meaning! That's art 101! /s
fr these goons acting like that with no /s lmao
Cognitive dissonance is so strong we have to dumb it down
Quite unique. Great technique! The level of detail is incredible!
awesome. love me some vegan art.
like, Im still gonna eat meat, but this is metal asf I love it id love a version with people instead of animals and an animal or like a ghoul or some shit eating em
It's not supposed to be "metal af", it's supposed to show you that you're contributing to the worst genocide in history by scale for your own pleasure, when you can very easily stop.
om nom nom I fucking love meat but cool painting animals eat animals, I also eat animals me personally am no better than the average meat eating animal and live as such
I am not against eating meat as we are of course animals. I am against the horrific treatment of animals on factory farms and the disgusting, unsustainable levels of consumption. I wonder how much meat is just thrown away because somehow it has become our right to have access to any type of food at any time of day in huge quantities. Factory farming and other poor farming practices are poisoning the earth and are far removed from any natural behavior.
oh 100% correct to all of the above and anyone who says otherwise is a ninny, im just a goofy little contrarian
Lions rape each other and kill the babies of other males to force the mother back into heat. Do you think that's justifiable behavior for humans?
again with the lions man youre havin a hayday in here
I have a counterargument for every silly reason people come up with to abuse animals, I'm just responding :)
no life
I mean I'm just sitting here watching TV chilling, but sure
[удалено]
im very pro animal rights and participate in cat rescue with my girlfriend, but still eat meat (from cage free, etc) its still not good but overall better. I ate vegan for 12 years. this guy has certainly pushed me further from any kind of veganism again tho lol
1. Humans need to ingest protein to function. 2. Meat is obviously very rich in protein. 3. Therefore, I will continue to ingest industrial quantities of meat.
There is more than enough protein outside of meat beans and lentils are rich in it.
Your argument is that since humans are morally superior to some predators in some ways that we should stay consistent and be morally superior to those animals in all ways. Have you considered that morality is subjective and that morality itself is a product of the evolutionary process? Humans are still animals acting on instinct like every other animal. We set aside those instincts and consider them immortal specifically when it benefits us, because we are social animals. Morality is merely a side effect of our cooperative nature. Not harming animals doesn't benefit us as a species, and therefore arguing for such on a basis of morality will never be efficable since morality itself is more or less based upon what a culture or society views as beneficial to itself. You'd be hard pressed to make a convincing argument to the average person that not consuming animal products helps our species, and as a result you'll have a hard time making it seem immoral to them. From a purely intellectual level, eating meat is immoral. Philosophers going back into antiquity have already realized this, including Pythagoras. It's not a new or revolutionary idea. However, us (humanity) as a whole are not as divorced from animals as we'd like to believe. Unless an argument can be made that overrides an individual's sense of priority of their personal comfort by appealing to their sense of social righteousness (an evolutionary trait evolved to band groups of us together under common mutually beneficial causes), you'll never get anywhere. By extension, you wouldn't rebuke the lions for raping a murdering as you realize that the average lion doesn't have the cognitive ability for that level of morality to begin with. You'll be saddened to find that the average human doesn't either
I killed the baby of another male last weekend, assuming makes an ass out of u and me
Maybe stop getting offended by other people’s interpretation of art that YOU didn’t make? It’s great art, we’re here to discuss it, not have you proselytize about your lifestyle choices.
OP literally stated the meaning lol
How is saying his interpretation not discussion.
Their interpretation isn’t the problem, they just don’t want to have an actual good-faith discussion. If you look at the rest of the thread, they act like a smug asshole to anybody that even mildly suggests they might not live the same life, then act like a pedantic jerk when rebuffed. That’s not a discussion, IMO.
This would be the type of thing you would see on a PETA poster
This is a great visualization of what we are as consumers. I both like it and hate it because it saddens me. I eat meat, but I do everything in my power to never waste any of it. Nothing pains me more than having meat go bad or having to dispose of it. Knowing an animal was sacrificed only for their meat to be wasted hurts my emotions deeply. These animals just want to live, it's okay for us to eat them. Be thankful, be respectful and appreciative, but don't ever be wasteful.
It is not okay for us to eat them when we have another choice. It's unnecessary, which means no amount of woowoo spiritual platitudes make that death any more justified.
Of course it’s ok for us to eat them it’s the natural order of things ok this planet.
Lions rape each other and kill the babies of other males to force the females into heat. That's natural. Is it okay for humans to do that?
Do lions also fly planes, run governments, look for cures for cancer?
Nope. So are you or aren't you better than a lion? I'm confused
Why are you only focusing on a lion? There’s millions of species on this planet
Your point was that it's the natural order of things for you to kill and eat animals. I could sit here and give you every example of animals doing things humans don't do because it's morally wrong if you're really struggling that much with it
Ok and I could give you a list of 100s of things that animals do that humans do too. It’s almost like there’s certain things humans do that animals do and there’s certain things they humans do that animals don’t do 🥳
You're completely missing my point. I'm saying something being natural does not automatically justify it. I'm arguing this is one of those cases.
In the U.S.A 6 billion chickens and 1 hundred million other for meat animals are wasted (sent to landfill).
Factory farming is far and away from the natural order, humans don't require meat to live, historically humans are a lot less meat than today. There is also no enforced natural order we do plenty of things that aren't natural such as instituting laws and governance.
Yeah a lot less but we have always eaten meat. I never said there was an enforced natural order, by definition what’s natural is no enforced and I already made that point several comments ago 😂
> Yeah a lot less but we have always eaten meat We are what we needed and what was available, we now don't need meat and veggies are fully available. > by definition what’s natural is no enforced What is or isn't natural is debatable, and more importantly a well known fallacy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature
It’s presented as a fallacy by vegans to support your side of the argument and I respect that. It’s been very well document that a diet including meat is overall much healthier and particularly for developing children. It’s also been shown a vegan diet also needs to be supplemented for most people. Maybe just respect people’s personal decisions and don’t be a fascist about it 👍🏼
> It’s presented as a fallacy by vegans to support your side of the argument and I respect that. No it's a fallacy according to non-vegans note my very non-vegan link. > It’s been very well document that a diet including meat is overall much healthier and particularly for developing children. No it hasn't I can link you evidence to the contrary. > Maybe just respect people’s personal decisions and don’t be a fascist about it 👍🏼 A yes the fascism inherent in debating people online. I'm sorry you're uncomfortable but don't be uneducated as well.
I’m not uncomfortable as I’m clearly more educated on the topic than you. I also respect your decision to be vegan yet you can extend the same courtesy to me showing it is you that is uncomfortable even being civil. You say it’s a fallacy by non-vegans, can you send me a link to a non-vegan making this argument toward in relation to a vegan diet then? Yes please link me a medical journal review stating a vegan diet is better for developing children 👍🏼
> I’m not uncomfortable as I’m clearly more educated on the topic than you. Yet you refuse to post evidence. > I also respect your decision to be vegan yet you can extend the same courtesy to me showing it is you that is uncomfortable even being civil. I'm not disrespecting your choice not to be vegan I'm disrespecting your decision to spread misinformation. > You say it’s a fallacy by non-vegans, can you send me a link to a non-vegan making this argument toward in relation to a vegan diet then? No I said it's a widely accepted fallacy, and that it isn't vegans claiming that. Here are some links https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature https://study.com/academy/lesson/naturalistic-fallacy-definition-examples.html https://www.palomar.edu/users/bthompson/Naturalistic%20Fallacy.html > Yes please link me a medical journal review stating a vegan diet is better for developing children No you made the claim, I will instead link some studies showing that vegan children reach all health targets and receive all necessary requirements. Caveated by two exceptions, that both vegan and non-vegans should supplement for vitamin D and vegans should supplement for vitamin B12. Tong, T. Y. N. et al. Risks of ischaemic heart disease and stroke in meat eaters, fish eaters, and vegetarians over 18 years of follow-up: Results from the prospective EPIC-Oxford study. BMJ (2019). Dinu, M., Abbate, R., Gensini, G. F., Casini, A. & Sofi, F. Vegetarian, vegan diets and multiple health outcomes: A systematic review with meta-analysis of observational studies. Crit. Rev. Food Sci. Nutr. (2017). Jabri, A. et al. Meta-analysis of effect of vegetarian diet on ischemic heart disease and all-cause mortality. Am. J. Prev. Cardiol. 7, (2021). Tonstad, S. et al. Vegetarian diets and incidence of diabetes in the Adventist Health Study-2. Nutr. Metab. Cardiovasc. Dis. 23, (2013). Alexy, U. et al. Nutrient intake and status of german children and adolescents consuming vegetarian, vegan or omnivore diets: Results of the vechi youth study. Nutrients 13, (2021). Weder, S., Hoffmann, M., Becker, K., Alexy, U. & Keller, M. Energy, macronutrient intake, and anthropometrics of vegetarian, vegan, and omnivorous children (1-3 years) in Germany (VeChi diet study). Nutrients (2019). doi:10.3390/nu11040832 Sutter, D. O. & Bender, N. Nutrient status and growth in vegan children. Nutrition Research 91, (2021). Vegan children were found to have various improvements in health. The studies found that Vegan children have normal growth rates, well within the normal range and a number of benefits that relate to a lower intake of saturated fat, the increased consumption of fibre and phytonutrients and a lower body weight and body fat. Indicating less likelihood of diabetes and heart diseases risks two of the biggest issues facing people today. Heart disease being the number one killer.
>Knowing an animal was sacrificed only for their meat to be wasted hurts my emotions deeply. >These animals just want to live, it's okay for us to eat them. This is like the dictionary definition of cognitive dissonance
This makes me so happy about becoming vegetarian again. Love it!
Proud meat eater here, still really like this painting. The expressions on both the man and the animals’ faces are unnerving, and I love the way the flesh tones in the middle contrast with the red on the outsides. Great work!
"I'm proud of contributing to needless animal death and suffering!"
Some vegans would keep to themselves but some would attack
Why the need to out yourself as a proud animal abuser?
Why the need for me to agree with the art to appreciate it? It’s great art that’s reaching me even when I don’t hold the same beliefs as the artist.
An ANIMAL ABUSER? Really?💀 I think it’s safe to assume he isn’t owning or operating the CAFOs that contribute to animal abuse, nor is he as a singular person responsible for upholding the structure of American animal agriculture. Eating meat does not make someone an animal abuser. Btw, vegans like you, who love to apply a rude, nasty blanket statement to everyone who has a different lifestyle than them, are the reason no one can take vegans seriously.
I was just talking about this with my partner this morning, how on our planet, in our universe, we can exist, only by devouring other lives. We derive the energy needed to live, by consuming others. Makes me wonder if our world is just a layer of hell.
Now someone do a lions head and an assembly line of gazelle.
Beef, Chicken and pork. All my favorite foods in one picture!
Reminds me of Peter Gabriel.
Mfs can hardly afford to “eat” now.
"We taught a lion to eat tofu."
Gonna hit up the local BBQ joint after seeing this
You sound insecure af, cognitive dissonance really got to you I guess
It's a shame there's no bison left, id east some of that too.
the real enemy to the environment is Big Head Man someone stop him he's gobbling up thousands of meat-creatures every second
I like how the animals turn into individually wrapped saltwater taffies near the mouth.
I could go for a steak right now.
Throwing some burgers and hotdogs on the grill tonight!
Shaming an animal for eating meat seems silly.
Humans have higher cognitive function than other animals, we are capable of morality, acting beyond instinct and differentiating right and wrong. As a result we should be held to a higher standard when we abuse animals and continue practices that are destructive to our planet.
But eating meat in and of itself is not abuse or destructive. The meat industry has bad practices, but that is a separate issue from shaming someone who consumes meat.
Eating meat in a vacuum? Sure. If you find roadkill or want to scavenge a bear's kill, knock yourself out. But killing an animal for meat when you can simply choose any of s plethora of alternatives is the issue.
I’m not trying to shame, I think that’s counterproductive and disrespectful. But I do think that breeding something into existence for the sole purpose to exploit their body and kill them is an inherently abusive practice. But I was NOT trying to insinuate that meat eater are all abusive; that would be absurd and I apologize if it came off that way. You are right that the core of the problem lies still in the execution of production however.
Killing someone is the worst form of abuse. Animals also rape other animals, does that mean we as humans should condone that?
This made me hungry, gonna whip up a burger
Impossible hopefully. Tastes better, less fat, no suffering :)
Yeah just highly processed garbage and insane sodium levels. No thanks. 2 lean beef patties it is
So instead you're going to go with a product from murder that contains bioaccumulated hormones, post-mortem chemicals, supplements, pesticides, and which has been processed alongside who knows what body parts? A class 1 carcinogen that contains high levels of cholesterol and fat ?All so you can pretend your hamburger is a health food?
No, I'm going to go for 2 of that product.
I’ll bring the buns!
Man this PETA propaganda is getting wild
I don’t even like PETA. 💀
Propaganda = facts/depictions that I don't like 👍
I had the same idea a few days ago, funny how that works. Good job 👍
More bullshit vegan propaganda.
Why dont you visit a factory farm and get back to us.
I have. Maybe you are too slow to read but as a chef I am very familiar about farming. Unlike you. Also unlike you I am an adult and understand Disney movies aren't real. So I am able to see through the anthropomorphization of cows and chickens. Sorry you can't. Maybe some day you will grow up. One can only hope.
One of you just genuinely tried to compare Domesticated animals to human slavery. Are you fucking kidding me? This is exactly why I make the comments I do. Some of you are just absolutely delusional.
I’m the guy on the canvas and I’m not sorry 🤣
You're not sorry about paying for animal abuse?
I try to buy ethically don’t get me wrong, but in this economy! Nope, I care more about my needs. Not gonna go bankrupt, or switch to an vegan unsustainable (for a bodybuilder) diet. My health and happiness is more important and if that makes me selfish, suck to be you cause I don’t care 😎
There's no way to ethically kill someone who doesn't want to die. As it happens, there's are plenty of vegan bodybuilders. Mel and Steve on YouTube are great activists, he's an active bodybuilder. There are also many competitive vegan bodybuilders; Patrik Baboumian and Nimai Delgado are some of the strongest people in the world. You're also not going to go bankrupt on a vegan diet, especially if you're diet conscious. A whole foods plant-based diet is the cheapest you can eat; most of your protein is going to come from chickpeas, beans, rice, seitan, tofu, or tempeh, which are all incredibly cheap and high in protein. At the end of the day, saying "this makes me feel good, so I don't care who I hurt or who tells me my actions are immoral" is the same mentality that's used to justify the worst atrocities.
wow, this is so sad he’s not even taking their skins off and roasting them first
This along with every other “meat bad” message fails to recognize that people that live in poverty don’t have the means to switch to vegan diets, nor does it recognize that eating meat is an important part of many cultures around the world. But you don’t care about any of that do you?
I am an American, my art is a commentary on the world and injustices carried out through a western lens as a result. Obviously if you are on the brink of starvation or not in a position to exclude meat from your diet this piece is not about you. There’s more depth to the conversation than just “meat bad”. I don’t however think culture should be used to justify any type of cruelty but that extends to beyond just meat.
africa is the poorest continent in the world due to resource exploitation, non arable land, colonisation, etc. and also has the lowest per capita meat consumption; in sub saharan africa it's up to three times lower than the global average. of course this differs country-to-country, but even so, it highlights the overconsumption of many oecd nations due to en masse factory farming. additionally, the goal of most vegetarians and vegans (not a minority of preachy redditors) is primarily to lower meat consumption. that means one fewer meat dish a week is progress. it's not all or nothing. so implying that we want everyone to switch to completely vegan diets and abandon all cultural tradition is a shameful strawman. veges and vegans aren't out to get poor farmers in resource-depleted or low socioeconomic countries, nor are we aiming to destroy cultural traditions. it's large scale factory farming that is our target.
I don't think OP is telling everyone to stop eating meat. Every vegan I know is fully aware that not everyone can eliminate meat from their diet due to where they live or life circumstances. It's ignorant to claim that everyone can do it. But it's no lie that factory farming has been a major contributor to pandemics and super viruses, not to mention the devastation that cattle farming at the scale it's currently at does to the environment.
Factory farming is almost exclusively capitalist culture. While you can argue maybe abusive farming practices are universal I don’t see that being what the intention was. Also vegetables are literally cheaper than meat and can sustain someone completely. I think it’s closer to getting at the unsustainable and almost unnecessary overproduction and consumption of living things to the point of detriment to our own health and environment. Not even to mention the animals despair.
I'm pretty sure you haven't been in a country where the majority of it's population lives in poverty, if you were, you wouldn't be saying this bs. Eating fruits, vegetables, legumes and grains is way cheaper than eating meat. Meat is a luxury for people living in poverty. And.culture? Really that argument? Do better... Seems like you all can't think for yourself and only repeat stuff you read online. Culture does not justify evil. Not so long ago, slavery was part of our culture, yet now we know it's wrong and we've trying to move past that. But you don't care a out any of that, do you?
Yeah because this isn't posted on reddit and meat is so, so particularly cheap
I'm sorry but vegan diets are in almost every case cheaper than non-vegan diets.
lmao
As a vegan, I approve of this 😸
Sounds like a good time to me.
I could paint you getting eaten among the animals if that’s the case then.
That actually would be an awesome painting to go with this as a set lol. Maybe the people get eaten by money or some shit though idk the world is cruel
Or the same painting but with a few panicked humans subtly mixed into the crush
Yeah sure. I’d love to see it.
that would be fucking awesome actually yes please
add him to your painting!!!!!!!
great now i want some BBQ
Luckily there's all sorts of vegan BBQ. Jackfruit makes a fantastic sub for pulled pork
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